Messages in vintageHO group. Page 1 of 1.

Group: vintageHO Message: 1 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: Welcome
Group: vintageHO Message: 2 From: wobbly913 Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: Athearn rubber band drive
Group: vintageHO Message: 3 From: Bill Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: Vintage
Group: vintageHO Message: 4 From: Will Seehorn Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: Re: Athearn rubber band drive
Group: vintageHO Message: 5 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: Re: Vintage
Group: vintageHO Message: 6 From: don.dellmann Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: Re: Athearn rubber band drive
Group: vintageHO Message: 7 From: don.dellmann Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: Re: Athearn rubber band drive
Group: vintageHO Message: 8 From: Roger Aultman Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: Re: Vintage
Group: vintageHO Message: 9 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: Re: Vintage
Group: vintageHO Message: 10 From: Kjb80401@aol.com Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: New Member aboard
Group: vintageHO Message: 11 From: Kjb80401@aol.com Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: Re: Vintage
Group: vintageHO Message: 12 From: Kjb80401@aol.com Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: Re: Athearn rubber band drive
Group: vintageHO Message: 13 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO Message: 14 From: wb3iqe Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: Re: Athearn rubber band drive
Group: vintageHO Message: 15 From: wb3iqe Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: A mystery hopper car
Group: vintageHO Message: 16 From: Dave Slater Date: 2/22/2004
Subject: New Member...
Group: vintageHO Message: 17 From: k youngmann Date: 2/22/2004
Subject: another new member
Group: vintageHO Message: 18 From: Christian Tucker Date: 2/22/2004
Subject: Dill and Sweet
Group: vintageHO Message: 19 From: Jack Priller Date: 2/22/2004
Subject: Re: Athearn rubber band drive
Group: vintageHO Message: 20 From: Jack Priller Date: 2/22/2004
Subject: Another 'mystery' car
Group: vintageHO Message: 21 From: Roger Aultman Date: 2/22/2004
Subject: Re: Another 'mystery' car
Group: vintageHO Message: 22 From: Dave Slater Date: 2/22/2004
Subject: Re: Another 'mystery' car
Group: vintageHO Message: 23 From: don.dellmann Date: 2/22/2004
Subject: Re: Dill and Sweet
Group: vintageHO Message: 24 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/22/2004
Subject: Re: Another 'mystery' car
Group: vintageHO Message: 25 From: don.dellmann Date: 2/22/2004
Subject: Re: Another 'mystery' car
Group: vintageHO Message: 26 From: Kjb80401@aol.com Date: 2/22/2004
Subject: Re: Another 'mystery' car
Group: vintageHO Message: 27 From: Garry Spear Date: 2/22/2004
Subject: Re: Dill and Sweet
Group: vintageHO Message: 28 From: wb3iqe Date: 2/22/2004
Subject: More about My Mystery Car
Group: vintageHO Message: 29 From: Galen Gallimore Date: 2/23/2004
Subject: Re: More about My Mystery Car
Group: vintageHO Message: 30 From: Galen Gallimore Date: 2/23/2004
Subject: new member
Group: vintageHO Message: 31 From: steamengine4449us Date: 2/23/2004
Subject: Re: Dill and Sweet
Group: vintageHO Message: 32 From: Wobbly913 Date: 2/24/2004
Subject: Re: Athearn rubber band drive
Group: vintageHO Message: 33 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/27/2004
Subject: Features
Group: vintageHO Message: 34 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/27/2004
Subject: Moderators
Group: vintageHO Message: 35 From: Garry Spear Date: 3/1/2004
Subject: FA: Varney, Globe, & International; Metal Car Kits
Group: vintageHO Message: 36 From: yaqui392000 Date: 3/1/2004
Subject: Vintage HO for sale
Group: vintageHO Message: 37 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/1/2004
Subject: Re: FA: Varney, Globe, & International; Metal Car Kits
Group: vintageHO Message: 38 From: Garry Spear Date: 3/1/2004
Subject: Re: FA: Varney, Globe, & International; Metal Car Kits
Group: vintageHO Message: 39 From: Mike Dinapoli Date: 3/2/2004
Subject: 1 more new member
Group: vintageHO Message: 40 From: Phil Date: 3/2/2004
Subject: Boiler Front
Group: vintageHO Message: 41 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/2/2004
Subject: Re: Boiler Front
Group: vintageHO Message: 42 From: tcol01@earthlink.net Date: 3/3/2004
Subject: Boiler Front
Group: vintageHO Message: 43 From: Phil Date: 3/3/2004
Subject: Re: Boiler Front
Group: vintageHO Message: 44 From: tcol01@earthlink.net Date: 3/4/2004
Subject: Old Pix
Group: vintageHO Message: 45 From: tcol01@earthlink.net Date: 3/4/2004
Subject: Old Pix
Group: vintageHO Message: 46 From: tcol01@earthlink.net Date: 3/4/2004
Subject: Speaking of MDC...
Group: vintageHO Message: 47 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/4/2004
Subject: Re: Speaking of MDC...
Group: vintageHO Message: 48 From: Rick Jones Date: 3/4/2004
Subject: Re: Speaking of MDC...
Group: vintageHO Message: 49 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/4/2004
Subject: MDC Model of The Month
Group: vintageHO Message: 50 From: Jack Priller Date: 3/5/2004
Subject: "New" cardboard & wood cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 51 From: tcol01@earthlink.net Date: 3/5/2004
Subject: "New" cardboard & wood cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 52 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/5/2004
Subject: Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 53 From: Kjb80401@aol.com Date: 3/5/2004
Subject: Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 54 From: Will Seehorn Date: 3/5/2004
Subject: Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 55 From: Jack Priller Date: 3/5/2004
Subject: Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 56 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/6/2004
Subject: Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 57 From: Will Seehorn Date: 3/6/2004
Subject: Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 58 From: Don Riley Date: 3/6/2004
Subject: Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 59 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/6/2004
Subject: Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 60 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/6/2004
Subject: Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 61 From: Will Seehorn Date: 3/6/2004
Subject: Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 62 From: Will Seehorn Date: 3/6/2004
Subject: Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 63 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/6/2004
Subject: Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 64 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/6/2004
Subject: Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 65 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/6/2004
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO Message: 66 From: Jack Priller Date: 3/6/2004
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO Message: 67 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/6/2004
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO Message: 68 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/6/2004
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO Message: 69 From: Roger Aultman Date: 3/6/2004
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO Message: 70 From: Dave Slater Date: 3/6/2004
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO Message: 71 From: Jack Priller Date: 3/7/2004
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO Message: 72 From: tcol01@earthlink.net Date: 3/7/2004
Subject: "New" cardboard & wood cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 73 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/7/2004
Subject: Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 74 From: Don Riley Date: 3/7/2004
Subject: Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 75 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/7/2004
Subject: Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 76 From: Wobbly913 Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 77 From: Don Riley Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 78 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 79 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 80 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 81 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: Temporary photo album
Group: vintageHO Message: 82 From: Kjb80401@aol.com Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 83 From: Jack Priller Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 84 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/10/2004
Subject: Hobbytown
Group: vintageHO Message: 85 From: Roger Aultman Date: 3/10/2004
Subject: Re: Hobbytown
Group: vintageHO Message: 86 From: Roger Aultman Date: 3/10/2004
Subject: Re: Hobbytown
Group: vintageHO Message: 87 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/10/2004
Subject: Re: Hobbytown
Group: vintageHO Message: 88 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/10/2004
Subject: Re: Hobbytown
Group: vintageHO Message: 89 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/13/2004
Subject: MDC MEtal Boxcars
Group: vintageHO Message: 90 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/13/2004
Subject: Mystery Box
Group: vintageHO Message: 91 From: Dave Slater Date: 3/13/2004
Subject: Re: Mystery Box
Group: vintageHO Message: 92 From: James B Date: 3/13/2004
Subject: Model train show/swap March 21st Cedarburg, WI
Group: vintageHO Message: 93 From: tcol01@earthlink.net Date: 3/14/2004
Subject: MDC Car
Group: vintageHO Message: 94 From: tcol01@earthlink.net Date: 3/14/2004
Subject: Mystery Box Car
Group: vintageHO Message: 95 From: tubamarx Date: 3/14/2004
Subject: Athearn Motor in an accessory?
Group: vintageHO Message: 96 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/14/2004
Subject: Re: Athearn Motor in an accessory?
Group: vintageHO Message: 97 From: Kjb80401@aol.com Date: 3/14/2004
Subject: A Brass Trash Treasure
Group: vintageHO Message: 98 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/14/2004
Subject: Re: Mystery Box Car
Group: vintageHO Message: 99 From: James B Date: 3/19/2004
Subject: Reminder Model train show/swap March 21st Cedarburg, WI
Group: vintageHO Message: 100 From: Garry Spear Date: 3/27/2004
Subject: FA: Various Vintage HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 101 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/28/2004
Subject: Re: FA: Various Vintage HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 102 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/28/2004
Subject: New Photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 103 From: Garry Spear Date: 3/28/2004
Subject: Re: FA: Various Vintage HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 104 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/28/2004
Subject: Re: FA: Various Vintage HO
Group: vintageHO Message: 105 From: nfmisso Date: 3/30/2004
Subject: Mantua Sharks A & B diecast
Group: vintageHO Message: 106 From: Mike Date: 4/3/2004
Subject: Varney Switcher
Group: vintageHO Message: 107 From: Diane Morgan Date: 4/4/2004
Subject: Re: Varney Switcher
Group: vintageHO Message: 108 From: Garry Spear Date: 4/18/2004
Subject: Exacta Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 109 From: Nigel F Misso Date: 4/18/2004
Subject: for sale - Mantua Shark power chassis
Group: vintageHO Message: 110 From: Galen Gallimore Date: 4/20/2004
Subject: Selley
Group: vintageHO Message: 111 From: Roger Aultman Date: 4/21/2004
Subject: Re: Selley
Group: vintageHO Message: 112 From: Don Dellmann Date: 5/10/2004
Subject: I LOVE eBay
Group: vintageHO Message: 113 From: Don Riley Date: 5/10/2004
Subject: Re: I LOVE eBay
Group: vintageHO Message: 114 From: Diane Morgan Date: 5/11/2004
Subject: Re: I LOVE eBay
Group: vintageHO Message: 115 From: Raymond F. Wetzel Date: 5/25/2004
Subject: Re: New Group Member
Group: vintageHO Message: 116 From: Don Riley Date: 5/25/2004
Subject: Re: New Group Member
Group: vintageHO Message: 117 From: Raymond F. Wetzel Date: 5/26/2004
Subject: Re: Friendly Note & Classic MDC
Group: vintageHO Message: 118 From: Don Riley Date: 5/26/2004
Subject: Re: Friendly Note & Classic MDC
Group: vintageHO Message: 119 From: Raymond F. Wetzel Date: 5/27/2004
Subject: Re: Friendly Note & Classic MDC
Group: vintageHO Message: 120 From: Don Riley Date: 5/27/2004
Subject: Re: Classic MDC
Group: vintageHO Message: 121 From: Raymond F. Wetzel Date: 5/27/2004
Subject: Re: Classic Athearn
Group: vintageHO Message: 122 From: Don Riley Date: 5/27/2004
Subject: Re: Classic Athearn
Group: vintageHO Message: 123 From: Garry Spear Date: 5/28/2004
Subject: FA: EXACTA Passenger Car
Group: vintageHO Message: 124 From: don.dellmann Date: 5/30/2004
Subject: Re: FA: EXACTA Passenger Car
Group: vintageHO Message: 125 From: Garry Spear Date: 5/30/2004
Subject: Re: FA: EXACTA Passenger Car
Group: vintageHO Message: 126 From: Diane Morgan Date: 5/30/2004
Subject: Re: FA: EXACTA Passenger Car
Group: vintageHO Message: 127 From: wb3iqe Date: 5/30/2004
Subject: Re: FA: EXACTA Passenger Car OR: Be careful what you wish for
Group: vintageHO Message: 128 From: Diane Morgan Date: 5/30/2004
Subject: Re: FA: EXACTA Passenger Car OR: Be careful what you wish for
Group: vintageHO Message: 129 From: Garry Spear Date: 5/30/2004
Subject: Re: FA: EXACTA Passenger Car OR: Be careful what you wish for
Group: vintageHO Message: 130 From: wb3iqe Date: 6/8/2004
Subject: Who made it?
Group: vintageHO Message: 131 From: Diane Morgan Date: 6/8/2004
Subject: Re: Who made it?
Group: vintageHO Message: 132 From: wb3iqe Date: 6/9/2004
Subject: Re: Who made it?
Group: vintageHO Message: 133 From: wb3iqe Date: 6/12/2004
Subject: Re: Who made it?
Group: vintageHO Message: 134 From: Don Dellmann Date: 6/13/2004
Subject: Microsquash vs. yahoo
Group: vintageHO Message: 135 From: redehaas Date: 6/17/2004
Subject: New member
Group: vintageHO Message: 136 From: steamengine4449us Date: 6/17/2004
Subject: Re: New member
Group: vintageHO Message: 137 From: redehaas Date: 6/17/2004
Subject: Re: New member
Group: vintageHO Message: 138 From: Don Riley Date: 6/17/2004
Subject: Re: New member
Group: vintageHO Message: 139 From: Diane Morgan Date: 6/17/2004
Subject: Re: New member
Group: vintageHO Message: 140 From: Diane Morgan Date: 6/17/2004
Subject: Re: New member
Group: vintageHO Message: 141 From: Don Riley Date: 6/17/2004
Subject: Re: New member
Group: vintageHO Message: 142 From: Don Dellmann Date: 6/24/2004
Subject: Speaking of couplers
Group: vintageHO Message: 143 From: Roger Aultman Date: 6/25/2004
Subject: Re: Speaking of couplers
Group: vintageHO Message: 144 From: redehaas Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: Re: Speaking of couplers
Group: vintageHO Message: 145 From: redehaas Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: To all Varney fans!
Group: vintageHO Message: 146 From: Kjb80401@aol.com Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: Re: To all Varney fans!
Group: vintageHO Message: 147 From: Roger Aultman Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: Re: Speaking of couplers
Group: vintageHO Message: 148 From: redehaas@dds.nl Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: Re: Speaking of couplers
Group: vintageHO Message: 149 From: Roger Aultman Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: Unusual coupler
Group: vintageHO Message: 150 From: don.dellmann Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: Re: Unusual coupler
Group: vintageHO Message: 151 From: redehaas Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: Re: To all Varney fans!
Group: vintageHO Message: 152 From: raymarinaccio Date: 7/2/2004
Subject: (no subject)
Group: vintageHO Message: 153 From: seekingho Date: 7/2/2004
Subject: Thank You
Group: vintageHO Message: 154 From: seekingho Date: 7/2/2004
Subject: Re: Who made it?
Group: vintageHO Message: 155 From: Raymond F. Wetzel Date: 7/2/2004
Subject: Re: Speaking of Couplers
Group: vintageHO Message: 156 From: Raymond F. Wetzel Date: 7/2/2004
Subject: Re: Varney Website
Group: vintageHO Message: 157 From: don.dellmann Date: 7/2/2004
Subject: Re: Thank You
Group: vintageHO Message: 158 From: seekingho Date: 7/2/2004
Subject: Reply to Don
Group: vintageHO Message: 159 From: don.dellmann Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Re: Reply to Don
Group: vintageHO Message: 160 From: Don Dellmann Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: Mystery coupler again
Group: vintageHO Message: 161 From: Roger Aultman Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: Re: Mystery coupler again
Group: vintageHO Message: 162 From: Dave Slater Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: Re: Mystery coupler again
Group: vintageHO Message: 163 From: don.dellmann Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: Re: Mystery coupler again
Group: vintageHO Message: 164 From: don.dellmann Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: Re: Mystery coupler again
Group: vintageHO Message: 165 From: Garry Spear Date: 7/5/2004
Subject: Re: Subject: Mystery coupler again
Group: vintageHO Message: 166 From: Roger Aultman Date: 7/5/2004
Subject: Re: Subject: Mystery coupler again
Group: vintageHO Message: 167 From: don.dellmann Date: 7/5/2004
Subject: Re: Subject: Mystery coupler again
Group: vintageHO Message: 168 From: steamengine4449us Date: 7/5/2004
Subject: Athearn in a bag??
Group: vintageHO Message: 169 From: don.dellmann Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Re: Athearn in a bag??
Group: vintageHO Message: 170 From: Rick Jones Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Re: Athearn in a bag??
Group: vintageHO Message: 171 From: Wobbly913 Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Re: Athearn in a bag??
Group: vintageHO Message: 172 From: Dave Slater Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Re: Athearn in a bag??
Group: vintageHO Message: 173 From: Larry Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Re: Athearn in a bag??
Group: vintageHO Message: 174 From: Raymond F. Wetzel Date: 7/7/2004
Subject: Re: Athearn in a bag??
Group: vintageHO Message: 175 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 7/7/2004
Subject: Re: Athearn in a bag??
Group: vintageHO Message: 176 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 7/7/2004
Subject: Re: Athearn in a bag??
Group: vintageHO Message: 177 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 7/7/2004
Subject: Re: Athearn in a bag??
Group: vintageHO Message: 178 From: Rick Jones Date: 7/7/2004
Subject: Re: Athearn in a bag??
Group: vintageHO Message: 179 From: Rick Jones Date: 7/7/2004
Subject: Re: Athearn in a bag??
Group: vintageHO Message: 180 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 7/7/2004
Subject: Re: Athearn in a bag??
Group: vintageHO Message: 181 From: Rick Jones Date: 7/7/2004
Subject: Re: Athearn in a bag??
Group: vintageHO Message: 182 From: Raymond F. Wetzel Date: 7/8/2004
Subject: Re: Athearn in a bag ??
Group: vintageHO Message: 183 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 7/13/2004
Subject: trains
Group: vintageHO Message: 184 From: don.dellmann Date: 7/13/2004
Subject: Re: trains
Group: vintageHO Message: 185 From: Dave Slater Date: 7/13/2004
Subject: Re: trains
Group: vintageHO Message: 186 From: Roger Aultman Date: 7/13/2004
Subject: Re: trains
Group: vintageHO Message: 187 From: Larry Date: 7/13/2004
Subject: Re: trains
Group: vintageHO Message: 188 From: oahurailway Date: 7/20/2004
Subject: Re: Original "Dockside" w/ Pittman 6V Motor....
Group: vintageHO Message: 189 From: redehaas Date: 7/20/2004
Subject: Re: Original "Dockside" w/ Pittman 6V Motor....
Group: vintageHO Message: 190 From: Raymond F. Wetzel Date: 7/20/2004
Subject: Re: Original "Dockside" w/Pittman 6V Motor
Group: vintageHO Message: 191 From: oahurailway Date: 7/20/2004
Subject: Re: Original "Dockside" w/Pittman 6V Motor
Group: vintageHO Message: 193 From: oahurailway Date: 7/20/2004
Subject: 1942 Varney Dockside 6V
Group: vintageHO Message: 194 From: Rudolf de Haas Date: 7/24/2004
Subject: Re: 1942 Varney Dockside 6V
Group: vintageHO Message: 195 From: oahurailway Date: 7/24/2004
Subject: Re: 1942 Varney Dockside 6V
Group: vintageHO Message: 196 From: cripete Date: 8/23/2004
Subject: Universal Drafting's "Celastic"
Group: vintageHO Message: 197 From: Diane Morgan Date: 8/23/2004
Subject: Re: Universal Drafting's "Celastic"
Group: vintageHO Message: 198 From: cripete Date: 8/26/2004
Subject: Re: Universal Drafting's "Celastic"
Group: vintageHO Message: 199 From: Don Dellmann Date: 8/29/2004
Subject: Car I.D.
Group: vintageHO Message: 200 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 8/29/2004
Subject: Re: Car I.D.
Group: vintageHO Message: 201 From: don.dellmann Date: 8/29/2004
Subject: Re: Car I.D.
Group: vintageHO Message: 202 From: Larry Date: 8/30/2004
Subject: Re: Car I.D.
Group: vintageHO Message: 203 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 8/30/2004
Subject: Re: Car I.D.
Group: vintageHO Message: 204 From: don.dellmann Date: 8/30/2004
Subject: Re: Car I.D.
Group: vintageHO Message: 205 From: don.dellmann Date: 8/30/2004
Subject: Re: Car I.D.
Group: vintageHO Message: 206 From: don.dellmann Date: 8/30/2004
Subject: Re: Car I.D.
Group: vintageHO Message: 207 From: steamengine4449us Date: 9/10/2004
Subject: powering those globes?
Group: vintageHO Message: 208 From: Roger Aultman Date: 9/10/2004
Subject: Re: powering those globes?
Group: vintageHO Message: 209 From: Wobbly913 Date: 9/10/2004
Subject: Re: powering those globes?
Group: vintageHO Message: 210 From: Wobbly913 Date: 9/10/2004
Subject: Re: powering those globes?
Group: vintageHO Message: 211 From: Roger Aultman Date: 9/10/2004
Subject: Re: powering those globes?
Group: vintageHO Message: 212 From: Don Riley Date: 9/10/2004
Subject: Re: powering those globes?
Group: vintageHO Message: 213 From: Don Riley Date: 9/10/2004
Subject: Re: powering those globes?
Group: vintageHO Message: 214 From: tcol01@earthlink.net Date: 9/10/2004
Subject: Re: powering those globes?
Group: vintageHO Message: 215 From: Don Riley Date: 9/10/2004
Subject: Re: powering those globes?
Group: vintageHO Message: 216 From: don.dellmann Date: 9/10/2004
Subject: Re: powering those globes?
Group: vintageHO Message: 217 From: Wobbly913 Date: 9/11/2004
Subject: Re: powering those globes?
Group: vintageHO Message: 218 From: Rudolf de Haas Date: 9/12/2004
Subject: Updated Pittman section
Group: vintageHO Message: 219 From: Ellen & Garry Date: 9/15/2004
Subject: FA: PRR MP54 Kits by Walthers
Group: vintageHO Message: 220 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 9/16/2004
Subject: Re: powering those globes?
Group: vintageHO Message: 221 From: Roger Aultman Date: 9/16/2004
Subject: Re: powering those globes?
Group: vintageHO Message: 222 From: retiredgrouch Date: 9/21/2004
Subject: Powering those Globes
Group: vintageHO Message: 223 From: Roger Aultman Date: 9/21/2004
Subject: Re: Powering those Globes
Group: vintageHO Message: 224 From: photobysam@yahoo.com Date: 9/23/2004
Subject: Walthers wood/metal passenger cars kits
Group: vintageHO Message: 225 From: Garry Spear Date: 9/23/2004
Subject: Re: Walthers wood/metal passenger cars kits
Group: vintageHO Message: 226 From: Roger Aultman Date: 9/23/2004
Subject: Devore Dyamometer Car
Group: vintageHO Message: 227 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 9/23/2004
Subject: Re: Devore Dyamometer Car
Group: vintageHO Message: 228 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 9/23/2004
Subject: Re: Walthers wood/metal passenger cars kits
Group: vintageHO Message: 229 From: James B Date: 9/24/2004
Subject: FA: Various Silver Streak kits on ebay
Group: vintageHO Message: 230 From: photobysam@yahoo.com Date: 9/26/2004
Subject: Wood/metal passenger car kits
Group: vintageHO Message: 231 From: Rick Jones Date: 9/29/2004
Subject: Re: FA: Various Silver Streak kits on ebay
Group: vintageHO Message: 232 From: photobysam@yahoo.com Date: 10/2/2004
Subject: Value? Lionel 4-6-2 Pacific
Group: vintageHO Message: 233 From: photobysam@yahoo.com Date: 10/2/2004
Subject: Re: Value? Lionel 4-6-2 Pacific
Group: vintageHO Message: 234 From: cnj999 Date: 10/3/2004
Subject: Re: Value? Lionel 4-6-2 Pacific
Group: vintageHO Message: 235 From: James Bartelt Date: 10/3/2004
Subject: Re: Value? Lionel 4-6-2 Pacific
Group: vintageHO Message: 236 From: photobysam@yahoo.com Date: 10/3/2004
Subject: Re: Value? Lionel 4-6-2 Pacific
Group: vintageHO Message: 237 From: Diane Morgan Date: 10/3/2004
Subject: Re: Value? Lionel 4-6-2 Pacific
Group: vintageHO Message: 238 From: Dst8596587@aol.com Date: 10/4/2004
Subject: Re: Value? Lionel 4-6-2 Pacific
Group: vintageHO Message: 239 From: tcol01@earthlink.net Date: 10/4/2004
Subject: Re: Value? Lionel 4-6-2 Pacific
Group: vintageHO Message: 240 From: Don Dellmann Date: 10/8/2004
Subject: Latest eBay aquisition
Group: vintageHO Message: 241 From: Dave Slater Date: 10/8/2004
Subject: Re: Latest eBay aquisition
Group: vintageHO Message: 242 From: Wobbly913 Date: 10/8/2004
Subject: Re: Latest eBay aquisition
Group: vintageHO Message: 243 From: don.dellmann Date: 10/8/2004
Subject: Re: Latest eBay aquisition
Group: vintageHO Message: 244 From: don.dellmann Date: 10/8/2004
Subject: Re: Latest eBay aquisition
Group: vintageHO Message: 245 From: Dave Slater Date: 10/9/2004
Subject: Re: Latest eBay aquisition
Group: vintageHO Message: 246 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 10/10/2004
Subject: Re: Latest eBay aquisition
Group: vintageHO Message: 247 From: Diane Morgan Date: 10/10/2004
Subject: Re: Latest eBay aquisition
Group: vintageHO Message: 248 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 10/11/2004
Subject: Re: Latest eBay aquisition
Group: vintageHO Message: 249 From: Garry Spear Date: 10/11/2004
Subject: FS: Varney Metal Kits OB
Group: vintageHO Message: 250 From: don.dellmann Date: 10/11/2004
Subject: Re: Latest eBay aquisition
Group: vintageHO Message: 251 From: Bill D. Date: 11/8/2004
Subject: Dallas Modelcraft E7 and FTs
Group: vintageHO Message: 252 From: Kjb80401@aol.com Date: 11/8/2004
Subject: Re: Dallas Modelcraft E7 and FTs
Group: vintageHO Message: 253 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 11/8/2004
Subject: Re: Dallas Modelcraft E7 and FTs
Group: vintageHO Message: 254 From: steamengine4449us Date: 11/19/2004
Subject: rubber connectors for drive shafts
Group: vintageHO Message: 255 From: don.dellmann Date: 11/19/2004
Subject: Re: rubber connectors for drive shafts
Group: vintageHO Message: 256 From: Larry Date: 11/19/2004
Subject: Re: rubber connectors for drive shafts
Group: vintageHO Message: 257 From: Larry Date: 11/19/2004
Subject: Looking for a Motor
Group: vintageHO Message: 258 From: Garry Spear Date: 11/19/2004
Subject: Re: FA: EXACTA Passenger Car
Group: vintageHO Message: 259 From: don.dellmann Date: 11/20/2004
Subject: Re: FA: EXACTA Passenger Car
Group: vintageHO Message: 260 From: Bud Date: 11/20/2004
Subject: New Member
Group: vintageHO Message: 261 From: tcol01@earthlink.net Date: 11/20/2004
Subject: Re: rubber connectors for drive shafts
Group: vintageHO Message: 262 From: Bud Date: 11/20/2004
Subject: C&O Boxcar
Group: vintageHO Message: 263 From: don.dellmann Date: 11/20/2004
Subject: Re: C&O Boxcar
Group: vintageHO Message: 264 From: stratboy39@aol.com Date: 11/20/2004
Subject: Re: C&O Boxcar
Group: vintageHO Message: 265 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/20/2004
Subject: Re: C&O Boxcar
Group: vintageHO Message: 266 From: stratboy39@aol.com Date: 11/20/2004
Subject: Re: C&O Boxcar
Group: vintageHO Message: 267 From: don.dellmann Date: 11/20/2004
Subject: Re: C&O Boxcar
Group: vintageHO Message: 268 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/20/2004
Subject: Photo albums
Group: vintageHO Message: 269 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 11/20/2004
Subject: Re: C&O Boxcar
Group: vintageHO Message: 270 From: Larry Date: 11/20/2004
Subject: Re: C&O Boxcar
Group: vintageHO Message: 271 From: stratboy39@aol.com Date: 11/21/2004
Subject: Re: C&O Boxcar
Group: vintageHO Message: 272 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 11/21/2004
Subject: Re: C&O Boxcar
Group: vintageHO Message: 273 From: stratboy39@aol.com Date: 11/21/2004
Subject: Re: C&O Boxcar
Group: vintageHO Message: 274 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 11/21/2004
Subject: Re: C&O Boxcar
Group: vintageHO Message: 275 From: stratboy39@aol.com Date: 11/22/2004
Subject: Re: C&O Boxcar
Group: vintageHO Message: 276 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/27/2004
Subject: New photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 277 From: Larry Date: 11/27/2004
Subject: Re: New photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 278 From: don.dellmann Date: 11/28/2004
Subject: Re: New photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 279 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/28/2004
Subject: More pics
Group: vintageHO Message: 280 From: Larry Date: 12/2/2004
Subject: Picture
Group: vintageHO Message: 281 From: Don Riley Date: 12/2/2004
Subject: Re: Picture
Group: vintageHO Message: 282 From: don.dellmann Date: 12/2/2004
Subject: Re: Picture
Group: vintageHO Message: 283 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/3/2004
Subject: Another locomotive
Group: vintageHO Message: 284 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/5/2004
Subject: More Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 285 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 12/5/2004
Subject: Re: More Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 286 From: tcol01@earthlink.net Date: 12/5/2004
Subject: More Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 287 From: railphotog Date: 12/5/2004
Subject: Lurker checking in
Group: vintageHO Message: 288 From: Wobbly913 Date: 12/5/2004
Subject: Re: Lurker checking in
Group: vintageHO Message: 289 From: railphotog Date: 12/5/2004
Subject: Re: Lurker checking in
Group: vintageHO Message: 290 From: Don Riley Date: 12/5/2004
Subject: Re: Lurker checking in
Group: vintageHO Message: 291 From: don.dellmann Date: 12/5/2004
Subject: Re: More Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 292 From: Larry Date: 12/5/2004
Subject: Re: More Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 293 From: don.dellmann Date: 12/5/2004
Subject: Re: More Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 294 From: don.dellmann Date: 12/6/2004
Subject: Re: More Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 295 From: Garry Spear Date: 12/6/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 84
Group: vintageHO Message: 296 From: Larry Date: 12/7/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 84
Group: vintageHO Message: 297 From: don.dellmann Date: 12/7/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 84
Group: vintageHO Message: 298 From: Larry Date: 12/7/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 84
Group: vintageHO Message: 299 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/11/2004
Subject: New pics and a new aquisition
Group: vintageHO Message: 300 From: Dave Slater Date: 12/11/2004
Subject: Re: New pics and a new aquisition
Group: vintageHO Message: 301 From: Gerry D Date: 12/11/2004
Subject: Re: New pics and a new aquisition
Group: vintageHO Message: 302 From: don.dellmann Date: 12/11/2004
Subject: Re: New pics and a new aquisition
Group: vintageHO Message: 303 From: Larry Date: 12/11/2004
Subject: Re: New pics and a new aquisition
Group: vintageHO Message: 304 From: Diane Morgan Date: 12/12/2004
Subject: Re: New pics and a new aquisition
Group: vintageHO Message: 305 From: Don Riley Date: 12/15/2004
Subject: Re: New pics and a new aquisition
Group: vintageHO Message: 306 From: Don Riley Date: 12/15/2004
Subject: Re: where did the box go? was New pics and a new aquisition
Group: vintageHO Message: 307 From: Garry Spear Date: 12/16/2004
Subject: FA: Blue Line PRR Pass Cars and Globe Box Car kits
Group: vintageHO Message: 308 From: Don and Dianne Hopf Date: 12/22/2004
Subject: New Member
Group: vintageHO Message: 309 From: redehaas@dds.nl Date: 12/22/2004
Subject: Re: Varney fan
Group: vintageHO Message: 310 From: oahurailway Date: 12/23/2004
Subject: Varney fans....
Group: vintageHO Message: 311 From: Gerry D Date: 12/23/2004
Subject: Re: Varney fan
Group: vintageHO Message: 312 From: dhopf1 Date: 12/23/2004
Subject: Re: Varney fan
Group: vintageHO Message: 313 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/24/2004
Subject: Holiday Greetings
Group: vintageHO Message: 314 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 12/24/2004
Subject: Re: Varney fan
Group: vintageHO Message: 315 From: dhopf1 Date: 12/24/2004
Subject: Re: Varney fan
Group: vintageHO Message: 316 From: dhopf1 Date: 12/24/2004
Subject: centrifugal clutch
Group: vintageHO Message: 317 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 12/24/2004
Subject: Re: Varney fan
Group: vintageHO Message: 318 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 12/25/2004
Subject: Re: Varney fan
Group: vintageHO Message: 319 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/26/2004
Subject: MDC Plastic
Group: vintageHO Message: 320 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 12/26/2004
Subject: Re: centrifugal clutch
Group: vintageHO Message: 321 From: Al Date: 12/27/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 91
Group: vintageHO Message: 322 From: Roger Aultman Date: 12/27/2004
Subject: Re: MDC Plastic [SPAM : scl = 6]
Group: vintageHO Message: 323 From: don.dellmann Date: 12/27/2004
Subject: Re: MDC Plastic [SPAM : scl = 6]
Group: vintageHO Message: 324 From: Larry Date: 12/28/2004
Subject: Re: MDC Plastic
Group: vintageHO Message: 325 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/28/2004
Subject: Re: MDC Plastic
Group: vintageHO Message: 326 From: cripete Date: 12/30/2004
Subject: Re: centrifugal clutch
Group: vintageHO Message: 327 From: Ray Hobin Date: 12/30/2004
Subject: Re: centrifugal clutch
Group: vintageHO Message: 328 From: Kjb80401@aol.com Date: 12/30/2004
Subject: Re: centrifugal clutch
Group: vintageHO Message: 329 From: Kjb80401@aol.com Date: 12/30/2004
Subject: Re: centrifugal clutch
Group: vintageHO Message: 330 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 12/31/2004
Subject: Re: centrifugal clutch
Group: vintageHO Message: 331 From: Ray Hobin Date: 12/31/2004
Subject: Re: centrifugal clutch
Group: vintageHO Message: 332 From: dhopf1 Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: centrifugal clutch
Group: vintageHO Message: 333 From: dhopf1 Date: 1/2/2005
Subject: Re: Looking for a Motor
Group: vintageHO Message: 334 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/3/2005
Subject: Latest aquisition
Group: vintageHO Message: 335 From: Paul Wassermann Date: 1/6/2005
Subject: Varney 4-6-0 Casey Jones Pilot
Group: vintageHO Message: 336 From: Garry Spear Date: 1/6/2005
Subject: Re: Varney 4-6-0 Casey Jones Pilot
Group: vintageHO Message: 337 From: redehaas@dds.nl Date: 1/6/2005
Subject: Re: Varney 4-6-0 Casey Jones Pilot
Group: vintageHO Message: 338 From: Larry Date: 1/7/2005
Subject: Re: Varney 4-6-0 Casey Jones Pilot
Group: vintageHO Message: 339 From: oljoeoh Date: 1/7/2005
Subject: Brand new here....
Group: vintageHO Message: 340 From: Roger Aultman Date: 1/7/2005
Subject: Re: Brand new here....
Group: vintageHO Message: 341 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 1/7/2005
Subject: Re: Brand new here....
Group: vintageHO Message: 342 From: Dst8596587@aol.com Date: 1/7/2005
Subject: Re: Brand new here....
Group: vintageHO Message: 343 From: Wobbly913 Date: 1/7/2005
Subject: Re: Brand new here....
Group: vintageHO Message: 344 From: don.dellmann Date: 1/7/2005
Subject: Re: Brand new here....
Group: vintageHO Message: 345 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 1/8/2005
Subject: Re: Brand new here....
Group: vintageHO Message: 346 From: oljoe@landolls.com Date: 1/8/2005
Subject: Re: Brand new here....
Group: vintageHO Message: 347 From: oljoe@landolls.com Date: 1/8/2005
Subject: Re: Brand new here....
Group: vintageHO Message: 348 From: Ray Hobin Date: 1/8/2005
Subject: Re: Brand new here....
Group: vintageHO Message: 349 From: Rudolf de Haas Date: 1/8/2005
Subject: Re: Brand new here....
Group: vintageHO Message: 350 From: oljoe@landolls.com Date: 1/8/2005
Subject: Re: Brand new here....
Group: vintageHO Message: 351 From: oljoe@landolls.com Date: 1/8/2005
Subject: Re: Brand new here....
Group: vintageHO Message: 352 From: Dave Slater Date: 1/8/2005
Subject: Re: Brand new here....
Group: vintageHO Message: 353 From: oljoe@landolls.com Date: 1/8/2005
Subject: Re: Brand new here....
Group: vintageHO Message: 354 From: oljoe@landolls.com Date: 1/8/2005
Subject: Re: Brand new here....
Group: vintageHO Message: 355 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 1/8/2005
Subject: Re: Brand new here....
Group: vintageHO Message: 356 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 1/8/2005
Subject: Re: Varney fan
Group: vintageHO Message: 357 From: oljoe@landolls.com Date: 1/9/2005
Subject: Re: Brand new here....
Group: vintageHO Message: 358 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 1/9/2005
Subject: Re: Brand new here....
Group: vintageHO Message: 359 From: Jack Priller Date: 1/27/2005
Subject: Verify ID
Group: vintageHO Message: 360 From: redehaas@dds.nl Date: 1/27/2005
Subject: Re: Verify ID
Group: vintageHO Message: 361 From: Jack Priller Date: 1/28/2005
Subject: Re: Verify ID
Group: vintageHO Message: 362 From: Jack Priller Date: 1/28/2005
Subject: Re: Verify ID, addendum
Group: vintageHO Message: 363 From: raymarinaccio Date: 1/28/2005
Subject: Re: Verify ID, addendum
Group: vintageHO Message: 364 From: Jack Priller Date: 1/29/2005
Subject: More IDs Please
Group: vintageHO Message: 365 From: erieberk Date: 1/30/2005
Subject: Re: More IDs Please
Group: vintageHO Message: 366 From: Jack Priller Date: 1/30/2005
Subject: Re: More IDs Please
Group: vintageHO Message: 367 From: jerrybrown_20 Date: 1/30/2005
Subject: New Member
Group: vintageHO Message: 368 From: Bill D. Date: 1/31/2005
Subject: 1950s Varney Docksider
Group: vintageHO Message: 369 From: Gerry D Date: 1/31/2005
Subject: Re: New Member
Group: vintageHO Message: 370 From: erieberk Date: 1/31/2005
Subject: Re: 1950s Varney Docksider
Group: vintageHO Message: 371 From: redehaas@dds.nl Date: 1/31/2005
Subject: Re: 1950s Varney Docksider
Group: vintageHO Message: 372 From: erieberk Date: 2/1/2005
Subject: Re: 1950s Varney Docksider
Group: vintageHO Message: 373 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/1/2005
Subject: Re: 1950s Varney Docksider
Group: vintageHO Message: 374 From: Tom Date: 2/1/2005
Subject: Hello from a new guy
Group: vintageHO Message: 375 From: oljoe@landolls.com Date: 2/1/2005
Subject: Re: Hello from a new guy
Group: vintageHO Message: 376 From: Bill D. Date: 2/2/2005
Subject: 1950 Docksider aka Little Joe
Group: vintageHO Message: 377 From: Rudolf de Haas Date: 2/3/2005
Subject: Re: 1950 Docksider aka Little Joe
Group: vintageHO Message: 378 From: Rudolf de Haas Date: 2/4/2005
Subject: Streamlined Varney pacific/hudson
Group: vintageHO Message: 379 From: erieberk Date: 2/6/2005
Subject: Re: Streamlined Varney pacific/hudson
Group: vintageHO Message: 380 From: redehaas@dds.nl Date: 2/6/2005
Subject: Re: Streamlined Varney pacific/hudson
Group: vintageHO Message: 381 From: Jack Priller Date: 2/8/2005
Subject: Serendipity or something
Group: vintageHO Message: 382 From: redehaas@dds.nl Date: 2/9/2005
Subject: Re: Serendipity or something
Group: vintageHO Message: 383 From: erieberk Date: 2/9/2005
Subject: Re: Streamlined Varney pacific/hudson
Group: vintageHO Message: 384 From: erieberk Date: 2/9/2005
Subject: Re: Serendipity or something
Group: vintageHO Message: 385 From: oahurailway Date: 2/9/2005
Subject: Re: Serendipity or something
Group: vintageHO Message: 386 From: erieberk Date: 2/9/2005
Subject: Re: Serendipity or something
Group: vintageHO Message: 387 From: oahurailway Date: 2/9/2005
Subject: Re: Serendipity or something
Group: vintageHO Message: 388 From: Jack Priller Date: 2/9/2005
Subject: Re: Serendipity or something
Group: vintageHO Message: 389 From: redehaas@dds.nl Date: 2/10/2005
Subject: Varney Dick Mercer Collection
Group: vintageHO Message: 390 From: redehaas@dds.nl Date: 2/10/2005
Subject: Fleischmann US
Group: vintageHO Message: 391 From: erieberk Date: 2/10/2005
Subject: Re: Varney Dick Mercer Collection
Group: vintageHO Message: 392 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/14/2005
Subject: Athearn metal instructions
Group: vintageHO Message: 393 From: erieberk Date: 2/14/2005
Subject: Re: Athearn metal instructions
Group: vintageHO Message: 394 From: don.dellmann Date: 2/14/2005
Subject: Re: Athearn metal instructions
Group: vintageHO Message: 395 From: Gerry Date: 2/14/2005
Subject: OK, so it's not that vintage...
Group: vintageHO Message: 396 From: Roger Aultman Date: 2/14/2005
Subject: Re: OK, so it's not that vintage...
Group: vintageHO Message: 397 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/14/2005
Subject: Latest find
Group: vintageHO Message: 398 From: don.dellmann Date: 2/14/2005
Subject: Re: OK, so it's not that vintage...
Group: vintageHO Message: 399 From: Wobbly913 Date: 2/14/2005
Subject: Re: 1950s Varney Docksider
Group: vintageHO Message: 400 From: Kjb80401@aol.com Date: 2/14/2005
Subject: Re: OK, so it's not that vintage...
Group: vintageHO Message: 401 From: don.dellmann Date: 2/15/2005
Subject: Re: 1950s Varney Docksider
Group: vintageHO Message: 402 From: redehaas@dds.nl Date: 2/15/2005
Subject: Re: 1950s Varney Docksider
Group: vintageHO Message: 403 From: Wobbly913 Date: 2/15/2005
Subject: Re: 1950s Varney Docksider
Group: vintageHO Message: 404 From: dhopf1 Date: 2/17/2005
Subject: Items on Ebay
Group: vintageHO Message: 405 From: dhopf1 Date: 2/17/2005
Subject: Re: Items on Ebay
Group: vintageHO Message: 406 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/18/2005
Subject: Re: Athearn metal instructions
Group: vintageHO Message: 407 From: Garry Spear Date: 2/18/2005
Subject: Re: Items on eBay
Group: vintageHO Message: 408 From: don.dellmann Date: 2/18/2005
Subject: Re: Items on eBay
Group: vintageHO Message: 409 From: Jack Priller Date: 2/18/2005
Subject: Slightly? off topic
Group: vintageHO Message: 410 From: wobbly913 Date: 2/20/2005
Subject: Parts for Lionel GS4
Group: vintageHO Message: 411 From: Larry Stevenson Date: 2/23/2005
Subject: Re: Parts for Lionel GS4
Group: vintageHO Message: 412 From: photobysam@yahoo.com Date: 2/24/2005
Subject: GM&O Doodle bug & trailer
Group: vintageHO Message: 413 From: Jack Priller Date: 2/25/2005
Subject: Re: GM&O Doodle bug & trailer
Group: vintageHO Message: 414 From: Gerry D Date: 2/25/2005
Subject: Re: GM&O Doodle bug & trailer
Group: vintageHO Message: 415 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/26/2005
Subject: Athearn metal
Group: vintageHO Message: 416 From: Don Riley Date: 2/26/2005
Subject: Re: Athearn metal
Group: vintageHO Message: 417 From: don.dellmann Date: 2/26/2005
Subject: Re: Athearn metal
Group: vintageHO Message: 418 From: erieberk Date: 2/26/2005
Subject: Re: Athearn metal
Group: vintageHO Message: 419 From: Larry Stevenson Date: 2/27/2005
Subject: Re: Athearn metal
Group: vintageHO Message: 420 From: Roger Aultman Date: 2/27/2005
Subject: Re: Athearn metal
Group: vintageHO Message: 421 From: don.dellmann Date: 2/27/2005
Subject: Re: Athearn metal
Group: vintageHO Message: 422 From: James B Date: 2/27/2005
Subject: 10th Annual Model Train Show March 13th Cedarburg, WI
Group: vintageHO Message: 423 From: Bill Daley Date: 2/27/2005
Subject: Re: GM&O Doodle bug & trailer
Group: vintageHO Message: 424 From: Gerry D Date: 2/27/2005
Subject: Re: GM&O Doodle bug & trailer
Group: vintageHO Message: 425 From: bobaroo7 Date: 2/28/2005
Subject: Alco High Hood Switcher
Group: vintageHO Message: 426 From: bobaroo7 Date: 2/28/2005
Subject: Ambroid Kit
Group: vintageHO Message: 427 From: don.dellmann Date: 2/28/2005
Subject: Re: Alco High Hood Switcher
Group: vintageHO Message: 428 From: don.dellmann Date: 2/28/2005
Subject: Re: Ambroid Kit
Group: vintageHO Message: 429 From: Kjb80401@aol.com Date: 2/28/2005
Subject: Re: Ambroid Kit
Group: vintageHO Message: 430 From: Don Riley Date: 2/28/2005
Subject: Re: glues was Ambroid Kit
Group: vintageHO Message: 431 From: Kjb80401@aol.com Date: 2/28/2005
Subject: Re: glues was Ambroid Kit
Group: vintageHO Message: 432 From: Don Riley Date: 2/28/2005
Subject: Re: glues
Group: vintageHO Message: 433 From: Bill Daley Date: 2/28/2005
Subject: Re: glues was Ambroid Kit
Group: vintageHO Message: 434 From: Kjb80401@aol.com Date: 2/28/2005
Subject: Re: glues
Group: vintageHO Message: 435 From: Don Riley Date: 2/28/2005
Subject: Re: glues
Group: vintageHO Message: 436 From: Kjb80401@aol.com Date: 2/28/2005
Subject: Re: glues
Group: vintageHO Message: 437 From: STOCKCREEK@aol.com Date: 2/28/2005
Subject: Re: Ambroid Kit
Group: vintageHO Message: 438 From: STOCKCREEK@aol.com Date: 2/28/2005
Subject: Re: Ambroid Kit
Group: vintageHO Message: 439 From: Ray Hobin Date: 3/1/2005
Subject: Glue: Was [vintageHO] Ambroid Kit
Group: vintageHO Message: 440 From: Kjb80401@aol.com Date: 3/1/2005
Subject: Re: Glue: Was [vintageHO] Ambroid Kit
Group: vintageHO Message: 441 From: erieberk Date: 3/1/2005
Subject: Re: Glue: Was [vintageHO] Ambroid Kit
Group: vintageHO Message: 442 From: Al Date: 3/1/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 124
Group: vintageHO Message: 443 From: Kjb80401@aol.com Date: 3/1/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 124
Group: vintageHO Message: 444 From: photobysam@yahoo.com Date: 3/1/2005
Subject: Re: glues
Group: vintageHO Message: 445 From: photobysam@yahoo.com Date: 3/1/2005
Subject: GM&O Doodle Bug
Group: vintageHO Message: 446 From: Al Date: 3/2/2005
Subject: glues/ ACC
Group: vintageHO Message: 447 From: Kjb80401@aol.com Date: 3/2/2005
Subject: Re: glues/ ACC
Group: vintageHO Message: 448 From: Ray Hobin Date: 3/2/2005
Subject: Re: glues/ ACC
Group: vintageHO Message: 449 From: Gerry D Date: 3/2/2005
Subject: Re: GM&O Doodle Bug
Group: vintageHO Message: 450 From: photobysam@yahoo.com Date: 3/2/2005
Subject: MR April 1959 Wanted
Group: vintageHO Message: 451 From: Jack Priller Date: 3/2/2005
Subject: Re: MR April 1959 Wanted
Group: vintageHO Message: 452 From: photobysam@yahoo.com Date: 3/2/2005
Subject: Re: MR April 1959 Wanted
Group: vintageHO Message: 453 From: Gerry D Date: 3/3/2005
Subject: Re: MR April 1959 Wanted
Group: vintageHO Message: 454 From: photobysam@yahoo.com Date: 3/3/2005
Subject: Re: MR April 1959 Wanted
Group: vintageHO Message: 455 From: sprinthag@yahoo.com Date: 3/4/2005
Subject: Re: MR April 1959 Wanted
Group: vintageHO Message: 456 From: Jack Priller Date: 3/4/2005
Subject: Re: MR April 1959 Wanted
Group: vintageHO Message: 457 From: Gerry D Date: 3/4/2005
Subject: Re: MR April 1959 Wanted
Group: vintageHO Message: 458 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/5/2005
Subject: Re: MR April 1959 Wanted
Group: vintageHO Message: 459 From: James B Date: 3/12/2005
Subject: Model Train Show March 13th Cedarburg, WI corrected release
Group: vintageHO Message: 460 From: steamengine4449us Date: 3/14/2005
Subject: who invented that truck?
Group: vintageHO Message: 461 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/15/2005
Subject: Re: who invented that truck?
Group: vintageHO Message: 462 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/18/2005
Subject: Newest aquisitions and an offer
Group: vintageHO Message: 463 From: Roger Aultman Date: 3/18/2005
Subject: Combo passenger car
Group: vintageHO Message: 464 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/18/2005
Subject: Re: Newest aquisitions and an offer
Group: vintageHO Message: 465 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/18/2005
Subject: Re: Combo passenger car
Group: vintageHO Message: 466 From: Roger Aultman Date: 3/18/2005
Subject: Re: Combo passenger car
Group: vintageHO Message: 467 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/20/2005
Subject: Basket Case
Group: vintageHO Message: 468 From: Dave Slater Date: 3/20/2005
Subject: Re: Basket Case
Group: vintageHO Message: 469 From: Jack Priller Date: 3/21/2005
Subject: Re: Basket Case
Group: vintageHO Message: 470 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/23/2005
Subject: Re: Basket Case
Group: vintageHO Message: 471 From: Roger Aultman Date: 3/24/2005
Subject: Castor electric
Group: vintageHO Message: 472 From: Jack Priller Date: 3/24/2005
Subject: Re: Castor electric
Group: vintageHO Message: 473 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/25/2005
Subject: Some new aquisitions
Group: vintageHO Message: 474 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/26/2005
Subject: Basket case
Group: vintageHO Message: 475 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/27/2005
Subject: Another mystery
Group: vintageHO Message: 476 From: Larry Stevenson Date: 3/28/2005
Subject: Re: Another mystery
Group: vintageHO Message: 477 From: Larry Stevenson Date: 3/28/2005
Subject: Re: Basket case
Group: vintageHO Message: 478 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/28/2005
Subject: Re: Another mystery
Group: vintageHO Message: 479 From: cnj999 Date: 3/29/2005
Subject: Re: Another mystery
Group: vintageHO Message: 480 From: erieberk Date: 3/29/2005
Subject: Re: Another mystery
Group: vintageHO Message: 481 From: erieberk Date: 3/29/2005
Subject: Re: Varney Pre-War 60' "Shorties"
Group: vintageHO Message: 482 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/29/2005
Subject: Re: Another mystery
Group: vintageHO Message: 483 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Mysteriouser & Mysteriouser
Group: vintageHO Message: 484 From: Roger Aultman Date: 4/4/2005
Subject: Re: Mysteriouser & Mysteriouser
Group: vintageHO Message: 485 From: don.dellmann Date: 4/5/2005
Subject: Re: Mysteriouser & Mysteriouser
Group: vintageHO Message: 486 From: Bill Daley Date: 4/6/2005
Subject: Re: Mysteriouser & Mysteriouser
Group: vintageHO Message: 487 From: Garry Spear Date: 4/9/2005
Subject: Metal and Red Ball Kits.
Group: vintageHO Message: 488 From: don.dellmann Date: 4/9/2005
Subject: Re: Metal and Red Ball Kits.
Group: vintageHO Message: 489 From: Bob B Date: 4/16/2005
Subject: Whatzit?
Group: vintageHO Message: 490 From: don.dellmann Date: 4/17/2005
Subject: Re: Whatzit?
Group: vintageHO Message: 491 From: Graeme Eldred Date: 4/17/2005
Subject: Re: Whatzit?
Group: vintageHO Message: 492 From: don.dellmann Date: 4/17/2005
Subject: Re: Whatzit?
Group: vintageHO Message: 493 From: erieberk Date: 4/17/2005
Subject: Re: Whatzit?
Group: vintageHO Message: 494 From: Jack Priller Date: 4/17/2005
Subject: Off-topic, wrong[?] gauge
Group: vintageHO Message: 495 From: erieberk Date: 4/17/2005
Subject: Re: Off-topic, wrong[?] gauge
Group: vintageHO Message: 496 From: Roger Aultman Date: 4/17/2005
Subject: Re: Off-topic, wrong[?] gauge
Group: vintageHO Message: 497 From: Jack Priller Date: 4/17/2005
Subject: Re: Off-topic, wrong[?] gauge
Group: vintageHO Message: 498 From: Roger Aultman Date: 4/17/2005
Subject: Re: Off-topic, wrong[?] gauge
Group: vintageHO Message: 499 From: Gerry D Date: 4/18/2005
Subject: Re: Whatzit?
Group: vintageHO Message: 500 From: Roger Aultman Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: NEW ONE
Group: vintageHO Message: 501 From: Sam Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: FS: Westwood MA & PA 2 car set
Group: vintageHO Message: 502 From: Don Riley Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: Re: NEW ONE
Group: vintageHO Message: 503 From: Don Riley Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: Re: FS: Westwood MA & PA 2 car set
Group: vintageHO Message: 504 From: James B Date: 4/25/2005
Subject: Penn Line Find
Group: vintageHO Message: 505 From: don.dellmann Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Re: Penn Line Find
Group: vintageHO Message: 506 From: redehaas@dds.nl Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Re: Penn Line Find
Group: vintageHO Message: 507 From: Rudolf de Haas Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Re: Penn Line Find
Group: vintageHO Message: 508 From: don.dellmann Date: 4/26/2005
Subject: Re: NEW ONE
Group: vintageHO Message: 509 From: Sam Date: 4/27/2005
Subject: FS: Walthers Metal Passenger Car kits
Group: vintageHO Message: 510 From: James Bartelt Date: 4/27/2005
Subject: Re: Penn Line Find
Group: vintageHO Message: 511 From: Roger Aultman Date: 4/27/2005
Subject: Re: NEW ONE
Group: vintageHO Message: 512 From: redehaas@dds.nl Date: 4/27/2005
Subject: Re: Penn Line Find
Group: vintageHO Message: 513 From: don.dellmann Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: NEW ONE
Group: vintageHO Message: 514 From: don.dellmann Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: Penn Line Find
Group: vintageHO Message: 515 From: oljoe@landolls.com Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: NEW ONE
Group: vintageHO Message: 516 From: Al Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: New One models
Group: vintageHO Message: 517 From: Ray Hobin Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: NEW ONE
Group: vintageHO Message: 518 From: Ray Hobin Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: NEW ONE
Group: vintageHO Message: 519 From: erieberk Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: NEW ONE
Group: vintageHO Message: 520 From: Roger Aultman Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: New One models
Group: vintageHO Message: 521 From: Roger Aultman Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: NEW ONE
Group: vintageHO Message: 522 From: Ray Hobin Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: NEW ONE
Group: vintageHO Message: 523 From: erieberk Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: New One
Group: vintageHO Message: 524 From: James Bartelt Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: Penn Line Find
Group: vintageHO Message: 525 From: don.dellmann Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: Penn Line Find
Group: vintageHO Message: 526 From: James Bartelt Date: 4/28/2005
Subject: Re: Penn Line Find
Group: vintageHO Message: 527 From: don.dellmann Date: 4/29/2005
Subject: Re: Penn Line Find
Group: vintageHO Message: 528 From: Bill Daley Date: 4/30/2005
Subject: Re: NEW ONE
Group: vintageHO Message: 529 From: Roger Aultman Date: 5/8/2005
Subject: Garrett switcher
Group: vintageHO Message: 530 From: Larry Date: 5/20/2005
Subject: A Request for HO Train Diagrams
Group: vintageHO Message: 531 From: Graeme Eldred Date: 5/20/2005
Subject: Re: A Request for HO Train Diagrams
Group: vintageHO Message: 532 From: Gerry D Date: 5/20/2005
Subject: Re: A Request for HO Train Diagrams
Group: vintageHO Message: 533 From: diecastdispersal Date: 6/22/2005
Subject: Die-Cast Dispersal - 19 Lionel Items Listed
Group: vintageHO Message: 534 From: internagy Date: 7/2/2005
Subject: Athearn Parts
Group: vintageHO Message: 535 From: roy_lafleur1951 Date: 7/6/2005
Subject: American Beauty
Group: vintageHO Message: 536 From: don.dellmann Date: 7/6/2005
Subject: Re: American Beauty
Group: vintageHO Message: 537 From: Roger Aultman Date: 7/9/2005
Subject: Ballast fibre ties
Group: vintageHO Message: 538 From: erieberk Date: 7/10/2005
Subject: Re: Ballast fibre ties
Group: vintageHO Message: 539 From: Roger Aultman Date: 7/10/2005
Subject: Re: Ballast fibre ties
Group: vintageHO Message: 540 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 7/10/2005
Subject: Re: Ballast fibre ties
Group: vintageHO Message: 541 From: Mike Brecher Date: 7/10/2005
Subject: Re: Ballast fibre ties
Group: vintageHO Message: 542 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 7/10/2005
Subject: Re: Ballast fibre ties
Group: vintageHO Message: 543 From: Roger Aultman Date: 7/10/2005
Subject: Re: Ballast fibre ties
Group: vintageHO Message: 544 From: Roger Aultman Date: 7/10/2005
Subject: Re: Ballast fibre ties
Group: vintageHO Message: 545 From: Don Dellmann Date: 7/13/2005
Subject: ID These cars?
Group: vintageHO Message: 546 From: erieberk Date: 7/13/2005
Subject: Re: ID These cars?
Group: vintageHO Message: 547 From: don.dellmann Date: 7/13/2005
Subject: Re: ID These cars?
Group: vintageHO Message: 548 From: erieberk Date: 7/14/2005
Subject: Re: ID These cars?
Group: vintageHO Message: 549 From: Garry Spear Date: 7/14/2005
Subject: ID These cars?
Group: vintageHO Message: 550 From: Donald Dellmann Date: 7/14/2005
Subject: Re: ID These cars?
Group: vintageHO Message: 551 From: don.dellmann Date: 7/14/2005
Subject: Re: ID These cars?
Group: vintageHO Message: 552 From: don.dellmann Date: 7/15/2005
Subject: Re: ID These cars?
Group: vintageHO Message: 553 From: erieberk Date: 7/16/2005
Subject: Re: ID These cars?
Group: vintageHO Message: 554 From: don.dellmann Date: 7/16/2005
Subject: Re: ID These cars?
Group: vintageHO Message: 555 From: erieberk Date: 7/16/2005
Subject: Re: ID These cars?
Group: vintageHO Message: 556 From: Roger Aultman Date: 7/16/2005
Subject: Re: ID These cars?
Group: vintageHO Message: 557 From: erieberk Date: 7/16/2005
Subject: Re: ID These cars?
Group: vintageHO Message: 558 From: jim gerstley Date: 7/16/2005
Subject: Re: ID These cars?
Group: vintageHO Message: 559 From: Don RIley Date: 8/25/2005
Subject: kinda slow here lately.
Group: vintageHO Message: 560 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 8/25/2005
Subject: Re: kinda slow here lately.
Group: vintageHO Message: 561 From: Wobbly913 Date: 8/25/2005
Subject: Re: kinda slow here lately.
Group: vintageHO Message: 562 From: Don Riley Date: 8/25/2005
Subject: Re: kinda slow here lately.
Group: vintageHO Message: 563 From: Don Riley Date: 8/25/2005
Subject: Re: kinda slow here lately.
Group: vintageHO Message: 564 From: Imp Ster Date: 8/26/2005
Subject: yup, it's quiet... TOO quiet.
Group: vintageHO Message: 565 From: don.dellmann Date: 8/26/2005
Subject: Re: kinda slow here lately.
Group: vintageHO Message: 566 From: raymarinaccio Date: 8/27/2005
Subject: Re: kinda slow here lately.
Group: vintageHO Message: 567 From: Imp Ster Date: 8/27/2005
Subject: Last Call for a Lost Art - All Aboard!
Group: vintageHO Message: 568 From: Don Riley Date: 8/27/2005
Subject: Re: kinda slow here lately.
Group: vintageHO Message: 569 From: Imp Ster Date: 8/28/2005
Subject: "Yes, We Have No Shortcuts Here!"
Group: vintageHO Message: 570 From: Imp Ster Date: 8/30/2005
Subject: a sampling of da imp's trivia
Group: vintageHO Message: 571 From: Don Riley Date: 8/30/2005
Subject: Re: a sampling of da imp's trivia
Group: vintageHO Message: 572 From: erieberk Date: 8/31/2005
Subject: Re: a sampling of da imp's trivia
Group: vintageHO Message: 573 From: don.dellmann Date: 8/31/2005
Subject: Re: a sampling of da imp's trivia
Group: vintageHO Message: 574 From: Imp Ster Date: 8/31/2005
Subject: the last bus to New Orleans
Group: vintageHO Message: 575 From: Imp Ster Date: 8/31/2005
Subject: the $100 Lincoln, and other tales
Group: vintageHO Message: 576 From: Don Riley Date: 9/4/2005
Subject: Re: the $100 Lincoln, and other tales
Group: vintageHO Message: 577 From: Imp Ster Date: 9/15/2005
Subject: a few samples of my work
Group: vintageHO Message: 578 From: Graeme Eldred Date: 9/20/2005
Subject: Old HO trains
Group: vintageHO Message: 579 From: Chuck Johnston Date: 9/26/2005
Subject: 1966-1985 Walthers catalogs for sale
Group: vintageHO Message: 580 From: Imp Ster Date: 9/28/2005
Subject: Wanted: Mantua steam & classic Athearn diesel - scrap
Group: vintageHO Message: 581 From: Larry Date: 9/29/2005
Subject: Re: Wanted: Mantua steam & classic Athearn diesel - scrap
Group: vintageHO Message: 582 From: diecastdispersal Date: 9/29/2005
Subject: 20+ Lionel and Related Die-Cast Items Listed
Group: vintageHO Message: 583 From: Imp Ster Date: 10/19/2005
Subject: tnx Larry for link to HOseeker index
Group: vintageHO Message: 584 From: Don Dellmann Date: 10/22/2005
Subject: New mystery car
Group: vintageHO Message: 585 From: Don Dellmann Date: 10/25/2005
Subject: Another addition to the roster
Group: vintageHO Message: 586 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 10/25/2005
Subject: Re: Another addition to the roster
Group: vintageHO Message: 587 From: don.dellmann Date: 10/25/2005
Subject: Re: Another addition to the roster
Group: vintageHO Message: 588 From: Don Dellmann Date: 10/25/2005
Subject: Ulrich Hopper
Group: vintageHO Message: 589 From: Rick Jones Date: 10/25/2005
Subject: Re: Another addition to the roster
Group: vintageHO Message: 590 From: Don Dellmann Date: 10/26/2005
Subject: Slowly emptying the "project pile"
Group: vintageHO Message: 591 From: Rudolf de Haas Date: 10/27/2005
Subject: Athearn DD40
Group: vintageHO Message: 592 From: Rudolf de Haas Date: 10/27/2005
Subject: Lionel HO, UP Challenger
Group: vintageHO Message: 593 From: Don Riley Date: 10/27/2005
Subject: Re: Athearn DD40
Group: vintageHO Message: 594 From: Larry Date: 10/27/2005
Subject: Re: Lionel HO, UP Challenger
Group: vintageHO Message: 595 From: don.dellmann Date: 10/27/2005
Subject: Re: Athearn DD40
Group: vintageHO Message: 596 From: Michael F. Looney Date: 10/27/2005
Subject: Re: Athearn DD40
Group: vintageHO Message: 597 From: Imp Ster Date: 10/27/2005
Subject: DD-40s - o boy
Group: vintageHO Message: 598 From: Don Riley Date: 10/27/2005
Subject: Re: DD-40s - o boy
Group: vintageHO Message: 599 From: Don Riley Date: 10/27/2005
Subject: Re: Athearn DD40
Group: vintageHO Message: 600 From: don.dellmann Date: 10/28/2005
Subject: Re: DD-40s - o boy
Group: vintageHO Message: 601 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 10/28/2005
Subject: Fwd: Great Western & Atlantic Train Show Coming to Vancouver, WA.!!!
Group: vintageHO Message: 602 From: erieberk Date: 10/28/2005
Subject: Re: New mystery car
Group: vintageHO Message: 603 From: AL Date: 10/28/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 185
Group: vintageHO Message: 604 From: don.dellmann Date: 10/28/2005
Subject: Re: New mystery car
Group: vintageHO Message: 605 From: don.dellmann Date: 10/29/2005
Subject: Re: New mystery car
Group: vintageHO Message: 606 From: redehaas@dds.nl Date: 10/30/2005
Subject: Re: Athearn DD40
Group: vintageHO Message: 607 From: don.dellmann Date: 10/30/2005
Subject: Re: Athearn DD40
Group: vintageHO Message: 609 From: don.dellmann Date: 10/31/2005
Subject: Moderator Warning (was Re: [vintageHO] DD-35 - 40s: Athearn vs. Bac
Group: vintageHO Message: 611 From: erieberk Date: 10/31/2005
Subject: Re: New mystery car
Group: vintageHO Message: 612 From: Dave Slater Date: 10/31/2005
Subject: Re: DD-35 - 40s: Athearn vs. Bachmann
Group: vintageHO Message: 613 From: Dave Slater Date: 10/31/2005
Subject: Re: Moderator Warning (was Re: [vintageHO] DD-35 - 40s: Athearn vs.
Group: vintageHO Message: 614 From: Garry Spear Date: 10/31/2005
Subject: Strombecker RI Rocket
Group: vintageHO Message: 615 From: Don Riley Date: 10/31/2005
Subject: Re: Strombecker RI Rocket
Group: vintageHO Message: 616 From: Imp Ster Date: 11/1/2005
Subject: old HO layout left in house?? hmm..
Group: vintageHO Message: 617 From: don.dellmann Date: 11/1/2005
Subject: Re: Strombecker RI Rocket
Group: vintageHO Message: 618 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/1/2005
Subject: Re: DD-35 - 40s: Athearn vs. Bachmann
Group: vintageHO Message: 619 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/1/2005
Subject: Re: Moderator Warning (was Re: [vintageHO] DD-35 - 40s: Athearnvs.B
Group: vintageHO Message: 620 From: Larry Date: 11/1/2005
Subject: Train Show Find
Group: vintageHO Message: 621 From: erieberk Date: 11/1/2005
Subject: Re: Train Show Find
Group: vintageHO Message: 622 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 11/1/2005
Subject: Fwd: [trainsallaspects] TCA's Museum
Group: vintageHO Message: 623 From: Garry Spear Date: 11/1/2005
Subject: Strombecker
Group: vintageHO Message: 624 From: Wobbly913 Date: 11/1/2005
Subject: Re: Strombecker
Group: vintageHO Message: 625 From: Garry Spear Date: 11/1/2005
Subject: Re: Strombecker
Group: vintageHO Message: 626 From: Don Riley Date: 11/1/2005
Subject: Re: Strombecker
Group: vintageHO Message: 627 From: Imp Ster Date: 11/1/2005
Subject: Larry's 4-6-6-6, zinc notes
Group: vintageHO Message: 628 From: Rudolf de Haas Date: 11/2/2005
Subject: Varney 2-8-8-4 Yellowstone
Group: vintageHO Message: 629 From: Garry Spear Date: 11/2/2005
Subject: Re: Strombecker
Group: vintageHO Message: 630 From: Garry Spear Date: 11/2/2005
Subject: Re: Larry's 4-6-6-6, zinc notes
Group: vintageHO Message: 631 From: Roger Aultman Date: 11/2/2005
Subject: Re: Varney 2-8-8-4 Yellowstone
Group: vintageHO Message: 632 From: redehaas@dds.nl Date: 11/2/2005
Subject: Re: Varney 2-8-8-4 Yellowstone
Group: vintageHO Message: 633 From: Larry Date: 11/3/2005
Subject: Re: Varney 2-8-8-4 Yellowstone
Group: vintageHO Message: 634 From: redehaas@dds.nl Date: 11/3/2005
Subject: Re: Varney 2-8-8-4 Yellowstone
Group: vintageHO Message: 635 From: Dave Slater Date: 11/6/2005
Subject: Not very old 4-6-0...
Group: vintageHO Message: 636 From: redehaas@dds.nl Date: 11/6/2005
Subject: Re: Not very old 4-6-0...
Group: vintageHO Message: 637 From: Garry Spear Date: 11/7/2005
Subject: Re: Strombecker
Group: vintageHO Message: 638 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/8/2005
Subject: I Love eBay
Group: vintageHO Message: 639 From: don.dellmann Date: 11/8/2005
Subject: Re: Not very old 4-6-0...
Group: vintageHO Message: 640 From: Dave Slater Date: 11/9/2005
Subject: Re: Not very old 4-6-0...
Group: vintageHO Message: 641 From: don.dellmann Date: 11/12/2005
Subject: Re: Not very old 4-6-0...
Group: vintageHO Message: 642 From: Dave Slater Date: 11/12/2005
Subject: Re: Not very old 4-6-0...
Group: vintageHO Message: 643 From: don.dellmann Date: 11/12/2005
Subject: Re: Not very old 4-6-0...
Group: vintageHO Message: 644 From: Dave Slater Date: 11/12/2005
Subject: Re: Not very old 4-6-0...
Group: vintageHO Message: 645 From: don.dellmann Date: 11/13/2005
Subject: Re: Not very old 4-6-0...
Group: vintageHO Message: 646 From: AL Date: 11/21/2005
Subject: old rolling stock plans
Group: vintageHO Message: 647 From: Larry Stevenson Date: 11/22/2005
Subject: Re: old rolling stock plans
Group: vintageHO Message: 648 From: don.dellmann Date: 11/22/2005
Subject: Re: old rolling stock plans
Group: vintageHO Message: 649 From: Larry Date: 11/22/2005
Subject: Re: old rolling stock plans
Group: vintageHO Message: 650 From: oljoeoh Date: 11/22/2005
Subject: Mantua 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 651 From: oljoeoh Date: 11/22/2005
Subject: Roundhouse 0-6-0 from the 50's
Group: vintageHO Message: 652 From: Roger Aultman Date: 11/22/2005
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 0-6-0 from the 50's
Group: vintageHO Message: 653 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 11/22/2005
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO Message: 654 From: Roger Aultman Date: 11/22/2005
Subject: Re: Mantua 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 655 From: AL Date: 11/22/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 197
Group: vintageHO Message: 656 From: don.dellmann Date: 11/22/2005
Subject: Re: old rolling stock plans
Group: vintageHO Message: 657 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 11/22/2005
Subject: Re: Mantua 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 658 From: Thomas Businger Date: 11/22/2005
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 0-6-0 from the 50's
Group: vintageHO Message: 659 From: oljoe@landolls.com Date: 11/23/2005
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 0-6-0 from the 50's
Group: vintageHO Message: 660 From: oljoe@landolls.com Date: 11/23/2005
Subject: Re: Mantua 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 661 From: oljoe@landolls.com Date: 11/23/2005
Subject: Re: Mantua 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 662 From: Thomas Businger Date: 11/23/2005
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 0-6-0 from the 50's
Group: vintageHO Message: 663 From: AL Date: 11/23/2005
Subject: old plans
Group: vintageHO Message: 664 From: Larry Stevenson Date: 11/23/2005
Subject: Re: old plans
Group: vintageHO Message: 665 From: Roger Aultman Date: 11/23/2005
Subject: Re: Mantua 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 666 From: dhopf1 Date: 11/23/2005
Subject: Re: Mantua 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 667 From: redehaas@dds.nl Date: 11/24/2005
Subject: Re: old plans
Group: vintageHO Message: 668 From: oljoe@landolls.com Date: 11/24/2005
Subject: Re: Mantua 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 669 From: Larry Date: 11/24/2005
Subject: Re: old plans
Group: vintageHO Message: 670 From: Roger Aultman Date: 11/24/2005
Subject: Re: Mantua 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 671 From: Ray Hobin Date: 11/24/2005
Subject: Re: old plans
Group: vintageHO Message: 672 From: Larry Date: 11/24/2005
Subject: Re: old plans
Group: vintageHO Message: 673 From: Ray Hobin Date: 11/25/2005
Subject: Re: old plans
Group: vintageHO Message: 674 From: Larry Date: 11/25/2005
Subject: Re: old plans
Group: vintageHO Message: 675 From: Bob B Date: 11/26/2005
Subject: HOTCO models?
Group: vintageHO Message: 676 From: Ray Hobin Date: 11/26/2005
Subject: Re: HOTCO models?
Group: vintageHO Message: 677 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 11/26/2005
Subject: Re: HOTCO models?
Group: vintageHO Message: 678 From: Larry Date: 11/26/2005
Subject: Re: HOTCO models?
Group: vintageHO Message: 679 From: Bill C. Date: 11/27/2005
Subject: Re: HOTCO models?
Group: vintageHO Message: 680 From: don.dellmann Date: 11/27/2005
Subject: Re: HOTCO models?
Group: vintageHO Message: 681 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 11/27/2005
Subject: Re: HOTCO models?
Group: vintageHO Message: 682 From: Rick Jones Date: 11/27/2005
Subject: Re: HOTCO models?
Group: vintageHO Message: 683 From: don.dellmann Date: 11/27/2005
Subject: Re: HOTCO models?
Group: vintageHO Message: 684 From: mph261 Date: 11/28/2005
Subject: Re: HOTCO models?
Group: vintageHO Message: 685 From: Roger Aultman Date: 11/28/2005
Subject: Re: HOTCO models?
Group: vintageHO Message: 686 From: Dave Slater Date: 11/28/2005
Subject: Re: HOTCO models?
Group: vintageHO Message: 687 From: Dave Slater Date: 11/28/2005
Subject: Re: HOTCO models?
Group: vintageHO Message: 688 From: Roger Aultman Date: 11/28/2005
Subject: Re: HOTCO models?
Group: vintageHO Message: 689 From: Dave Slater Date: 11/29/2005
Subject: Re: HOTCO models?
Group: vintageHO Message: 690 From: Robert K Nielsen Date: 11/29/2005
Subject: Re: HOTCO models?
Group: vintageHO Message: 691 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 11/30/2005
Subject: Re: HOTCO models?
Group: vintageHO Message: 692 From: Imp Ster Date: 12/1/2005
Subject: re, the MDC (zinc) 200-ton flatcar
Group: vintageHO Message: 693 From: Don Riley Date: 12/5/2005
Subject: Re: re, the MDC (zinc) 200-ton flatcar
Group: vintageHO Message: 694 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/6/2005
Subject: Latest aquisition
Group: vintageHO Message: 695 From: redehaas@dds.nl Date: 12/6/2005
Subject: Re: Latest aquisition
Group: vintageHO Message: 696 From: erieberk Date: 12/6/2005
Subject: Re: Latest aquisition
Group: vintageHO Message: 697 From: erieberk Date: 12/6/2005
Subject: Re: Latest aquisition
Group: vintageHO Message: 698 From: don.dellmann Date: 12/6/2005
Subject: Re: Latest aquisition
Group: vintageHO Message: 699 From: don.dellmann Date: 12/6/2005
Subject: Re: Latest aquisition
Group: vintageHO Message: 700 From: Roger Aultman Date: 12/6/2005
Subject: Re: Latest aquisition
Group: vintageHO Message: 701 From: redehaas@dds.nl Date: 12/6/2005
Subject: Mainline by Varney
Group: vintageHO Message: 702 From: Imp Ster Date: 12/6/2005
Subject: the 200-ton metal flat redux
Group: vintageHO Message: 703 From: don.dellmann Date: 12/6/2005
Subject: Re: Latest aquisition
Group: vintageHO Message: 704 From: don.dellmann Date: 12/6/2005
Subject: Re: Mainline by Varney
Group: vintageHO Message: 705 From: erieberk Date: 12/6/2005
Subject: Re: Mainline by Varney
Group: vintageHO Message: 706 From: erieberk Date: 12/6/2005
Subject: Re: Latest aquisition
Group: vintageHO Message: 707 From: Bill C. Date: 12/6/2005
Subject: It could be...
Group: vintageHO Message: 708 From: don.dellmann Date: 12/7/2005
Subject: Re: It could be...
Group: vintageHO Message: 709 From: Don Riley Date: 12/7/2005
Subject: Re: It could be...
Group: vintageHO Message: 710 From: Wobbly913 Date: 12/7/2005
Subject: Re: the 200-ton metal flat redux
Group: vintageHO Message: 711 From: erieberk Date: 12/7/2005
Subject: Re: It could be...
Group: vintageHO Message: 712 From: erieberk Date: 12/7/2005
Subject: Re: It could be...
Group: vintageHO Message: 713 From: erieberk Date: 12/7/2005
Subject: Re: It could be...
Group: vintageHO Message: 714 From: madchemep2@aol.com Date: 12/7/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 207
Group: vintageHO Message: 715 From: don.dellmann Date: 12/7/2005
Subject: Re: It could be...
Group: vintageHO Message: 716 From: don.dellmann Date: 12/7/2005
Subject: Re: the 200-ton metal flat redux
Group: vintageHO Message: 717 From: erieberk Date: 12/8/2005
Subject: Re: It could be...
Group: vintageHO Message: 718 From: Imp Ster Date: 12/8/2005
Subject: the "sprung" zinc Buckeye vs. the Delrin
Group: vintageHO Message: 719 From: Wobbly913 Date: 12/8/2005
Subject: Re: the 200-ton metal flat redux
Group: vintageHO Message: 720 From: Wobbly913 Date: 12/8/2005
Subject: Re: the "sprung" zinc Buckeye vs. the Delrin
Group: vintageHO Message: 721 From: don.dellmann Date: 12/8/2005
Subject: Re: It could be...
Group: vintageHO Message: 722 From: don.dellmann Date: 12/8/2005
Subject: Re: the "sprung" zinc Buckeye vs. the Delrin
Group: vintageHO Message: 723 From: Rick Jones Date: 12/8/2005
Subject: Re: the "sprung" zinc Buckeye vs. the Delrin
Group: vintageHO Message: 724 From: erieberk Date: 12/9/2005
Subject: Re: It could be...
Group: vintageHO Message: 725 From: don.dellmann Date: 12/9/2005
Subject: Re: It could be...
Group: vintageHO Message: 726 From: Bob B Date: 12/11/2005
Subject: Lionel HO Scale U18B?
Group: vintageHO Message: 727 From: AL Date: 12/11/2005
Subject: Lionel HO Scale U18B?
Group: vintageHO Message: 728 From: don.dellmann Date: 12/11/2005
Subject: Re: Lionel HO Scale U18B?
Group: vintageHO Message: 729 From: oljoeoh Date: 12/13/2005
Subject: Mantua 0-4-0 w/slope back tender
Group: vintageHO Message: 730 From: Imp Ster Date: 12/13/2005
Subject: Mantua drawbar replacement
Group: vintageHO Message: 731 From: AL Date: 12/13/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 213
Group: vintageHO Message: 732 From: don.dellmann Date: 12/13/2005
Subject: Re: Mantua 0-4-0 w/slope back tender
Group: vintageHO Message: 733 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 12/13/2005
Subject: trains
Group: vintageHO Message: 734 From: Rudolf de Haas Date: 12/13/2005
Subject: (Mantua) drawbar replacement
Group: vintageHO Message: 735 From: oljoe@landolls.com Date: 12/14/2005
Subject: Re: (Mantua) drawbar replacement
Group: vintageHO Message: 736 From: Bill Daley Date: 12/14/2005
Subject: Re: Mantua 0-4-0 w/slope back tender
Group: vintageHO Message: 737 From: Imp Ster Date: 12/14/2005
Subject: the $15 Mantua Pacific, and other tales
Group: vintageHO Message: 738 From: Dave Slater Date: 12/14/2005
Subject: Re: the $15 Mantua Pacific, and other tales
Group: vintageHO Message: 739 From: Imp Ster Date: 12/14/2005
Subject: The Black Hills '1880' Saddle-Tanker, and It's Friends
Group: vintageHO Message: 740 From: Dave Slater Date: 12/15/2005
Subject: Re: The Black Hills '1880' Saddle-Tanker, and It's Friends
Group: vintageHO Message: 741 From: Gerry Date: 12/15/2005
Subject: Re: Mantua 0-4-0 w/slope back tender
Group: vintageHO Message: 742 From: oljoe@landolls.com Date: 12/16/2005
Subject: Re: Mantua 0-4-0 w/slope back tender
Group: vintageHO Message: 743 From: Gerry D Date: 12/16/2005
Subject: Re: Mantua 0-4-0 w/slope back tender
Group: vintageHO Message: 744 From: Imp Ster Date: 12/16/2005
Subject: a short rant on drawbars, and other Needful Things
Group: vintageHO Message: 745 From: AL Date: 12/16/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 216
Group: vintageHO Message: 746 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 12/17/2005
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO Message: 747 From: Imp Ster Date: 12/17/2005
Subject: Fun w/ the Tyco Ten-Wheeler
Group: vintageHO Message: 748 From: Garry Spear Date: 12/19/2005
Subject: Re: drawbars, my Solution
Group: vintageHO Message: 749 From: Larry Date: 12/28/2005
Subject: Mantua Part Numbers and Diagrams
Group: vintageHO Message: 750 From: Don Rowland Date: 12/28/2005
Subject: Mantua draw bar
Group: vintageHO Message: 751 From: Sam Date: 12/30/2005
Subject: Needed Detail Assoc. 2721
Group: vintageHO Message: 752 From: Imp Ster Date: 12/31/2005
Subject: Happy New Year! - the Trains are Running!
Group: vintageHO Message: 753 From: oljoeoh Date: 1/1/2006
Subject: Penn Line Whitcomb switcher
Group: vintageHO Message: 754 From: oljoeoh Date: 1/1/2006
Subject: Re: Mantua draw bar
Group: vintageHO Message: 755 From: Phil Date: 1/2/2006
Subject: Cutting Passenger Car Shells
Group: vintageHO Message: 756 From: Thomas Businger Date: 1/2/2006
Subject: Re: Cutting Passenger Car Shells
Group: vintageHO Message: 757 From: Phil Date: 1/2/2006
Subject: Re: Cutting Passenger Car Shells
Group: vintageHO Message: 758 From: Thomas Businger Date: 1/2/2006
Subject: Re: Cutting Passenger Car Shells
Group: vintageHO Message: 759 From: Sam Date: 1/2/2006
Subject: Re: Cutting Passenger Car Shells
Group: vintageHO Message: 760 From: Phil Date: 1/2/2006
Subject: Re: Cutting Passenger Car Shells
Group: vintageHO Message: 761 From: Bill Daley Date: 1/4/2006
Subject: Re: Cutting Passenger Car Shells
Group: vintageHO Message: 762 From: Mike Date: 1/6/2006
Subject: your invited
Group: vintageHO Message: 763 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: New member intro
Group: vintageHO Message: 764 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: Re: New member intro
Group: vintageHO Message: 765 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 1/9/2006
Subject: neat find
Group: vintageHO Message: 766 From: John Carson Date: 1/9/2006
Subject: Re: neat find - "Chuck Svihlik"
Group: vintageHO Message: 767 From: John Barlow Date: 1/9/2006
Subject: Re: Anyone Ever Hear of...
Group: vintageHO Message: 768 From: don.dellmann Date: 1/9/2006
Subject: Re: Anyone Ever Hear of...
Group: vintageHO Message: 769 From: don.dellmann Date: 1/9/2006
Subject: Re: Anyone Ever Hear of...
Group: vintageHO Message: 770 From: John Barlow Date: 1/9/2006
Subject: Re: The New Red Ball Website...
Group: vintageHO Message: 771 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 1/9/2006
Subject: Re: neat find - "Chuck Svihlik"
Group: vintageHO Message: 772 From: John Carson Date: 1/9/2006
Subject: Re: neat find - "Chuck Svihlik"
Group: vintageHO Message: 773 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 1/10/2006
Subject: Re: neat find - "Chuck Svihlik"
Group: vintageHO Message: 774 From: erieberk Date: 1/10/2006
Subject: Re: Anyone Ever Hear of...
Group: vintageHO Message: 775 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 1/10/2006
Subject: Re: neat find - "Chuck Svihlik"
Group: vintageHO Message: 776 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 1/10/2006
Subject: Great place for parts
Group: vintageHO Message: 777 From: don.dellmann Date: 1/10/2006
Subject: Re: Great place for parts
Group: vintageHO Message: 778 From: don.dellmann Date: 1/10/2006
Subject: Re: neat find - "Chuck Svihlik"
Group: vintageHO Message: 779 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 1/10/2006
Subject: Re: Great place for parts
Group: vintageHO Message: 780 From: don.dellmann Date: 1/11/2006
Subject: Re: Great place for parts
Group: vintageHO Message: 781 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 1/11/2006
Subject: welcome
Group: vintageHO Message: 782 From: Imp Ster Date: 1/13/2006
Subject: Yardbird's place
Group: vintageHO Message: 783 From: Imp Ster Date: 1/14/2006
Subject: Wanted! - Mantua 4-8-0 !! (..a 12 Wheeler? - who knew?)
Group: vintageHO Message: 784 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 1/14/2006
Subject: Re: Wanted! - Mantua 4-8-0 !! (..a 12 Wheeler? - who knew?)
Group: vintageHO Message: 785 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 1/14/2006
Subject: Re: Wanted! - Mantua 4-8-0 !! (..a 12 Wheeler? - who knew?)
Group: vintageHO Message: 786 From: Frank Date: 1/14/2006
Subject: Hello. New to group.
Group: vintageHO Message: 787 From: Frank Date: 1/15/2006
Subject: Photos added frank olear
Group: vintageHO Message: 788 From: don.dellmann Date: 1/15/2006
Subject: Re: Photos added frank olear
Group: vintageHO Message: 789 From: Frank Date: 1/15/2006
Subject: New links toptrain frank o
Group: vintageHO Message: 790 From: don.dellmann Date: 1/15/2006
Subject: Re: New links toptrain frank o
Group: vintageHO Message: 791 From: Imp Ster Date: 1/15/2006
Subject: tnx Chuck, sorry, no more EBay for me
Group: vintageHO Message: 792 From: Frank Date: 1/15/2006
Subject: Re: New links toptrain frank o
Group: vintageHO Message: 793 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 1/16/2006
Subject: Vintage Electrical Help
Group: vintageHO Message: 794 From: don.dellmann Date: 1/16/2006
Subject: Re: Vintage Electrical Help
Group: vintageHO Message: 795 From: Gerry D Date: 1/16/2006
Subject: Re: Vintage Electrical Help
Group: vintageHO Message: 796 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 1/17/2006
Subject: Re: Vintage Electrical Help
Group: vintageHO Message: 797 From: Frank Date: 1/17/2006
Subject: The Penn Line Link
Group: vintageHO Message: 798 From: Gerry D Date: 1/18/2006
Subject: Re: Vintage Electrical Help
Group: vintageHO Message: 799 From: Frank Date: 1/18/2006
Subject: Penn line Diedels.
Group: vintageHO Message: 800 From: don.dellmann Date: 1/18/2006
Subject: Re: Penn line Diedels.
Group: vintageHO Message: 801 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 1/19/2006
Subject: help with J.English 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO Message: 802 From: Roger Aultman Date: 1/19/2006
Subject: Re: help with J.English 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO Message: 803 From: Frank Date: 1/19/2006
Subject: Re: help with J.English 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO Message: 804 From: Frank Date: 1/19/2006
Subject: english 0-4-0 side rod
Group: vintageHO Message: 805 From: Frank Date: 1/19/2006
Subject: Re: Penn line Diedels.
Group: vintageHO Message: 806 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 1/19/2006
Subject: Re: help with J.English 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO Message: 807 From: don.dellmann Date: 1/20/2006
Subject: Re: Penn line Diedels.
Group: vintageHO Message: 808 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 1/20/2006
Subject: up date
Group: vintageHO Message: 809 From: Jim Snyder Date: 1/21/2006
Subject: Old stuff...
Group: vintageHO Message: 810 From: Don Riley Date: 1/21/2006
Subject: Re: Old stuff...
Group: vintageHO Message: 811 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/21/2006
Subject: New additions to the roster
Group: vintageHO Message: 812 From: erieberk Date: 1/21/2006
Subject: Re: Old stuff...
Group: vintageHO Message: 813 From: don.dellmann Date: 1/21/2006
Subject: Re: Old stuff...
Group: vintageHO Message: 814 From: don.dellmann Date: 1/21/2006
Subject: Re: Old stuff...
Group: vintageHO Message: 816 From: Frank Date: 1/21/2006
Subject: photo album Frank O modified.
Group: vintageHO Message: 817 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/21/2006
Subject: Re: photo album Frank O modified.
Group: vintageHO Message: 818 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 1/21/2006
Subject: Re: photo album Frank O modified.
Group: vintageHO Message: 819 From: erieberk Date: 1/21/2006
Subject: Re: Old stuff...
Group: vintageHO Message: 820 From: Garry Spear Date: 1/21/2006
Subject: Re: Old stuff...
Group: vintageHO Message: 821 From: Frank Date: 1/21/2006
Subject: Re: photo album Frank O modified. RAY, YOUR RIGHT!
Group: vintageHO Message: 822 From: don.dellmann Date: 1/21/2006
Subject: Re: Old stuff...
Group: vintageHO Message: 823 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 1/21/2006
Subject: Re: photo album Frank O modified. RAY, YOUR RIGHT!
Group: vintageHO Message: 824 From: don.dellmann Date: 1/22/2006
Subject: Re: photo album Frank O modified. RAY, YOUR RIGHT!
Group: vintageHO Message: 825 From: Ray Hobin Date: 1/22/2006
Subject: Re: photo album
Group: vintageHO Message: 826 From: Jack Priller Date: 1/22/2006
Subject: Re: photo album
Group: vintageHO Message: 827 From: Bill Daley Date: 1/23/2006
Subject: Re: Old stuff...
Group: vintageHO Message: 828 From: Jim Snyder Date: 1/23/2006
Subject: Re: Old stuff...
Group: vintageHO Message: 829 From: Jim Snyder Date: 1/23/2006
Subject: Re: Old stuff...
Group: vintageHO Message: 831 From: Frank Date: 1/24/2006
Subject: new link added
Group: vintageHO Message: 832 From: whistlestop2000 Date: 1/27/2006
Subject: Atlas track
Group: vintageHO Message: 833 From: don.dellmann Date: 1/27/2006
Subject: Re: Atlas track
Group: vintageHO Message: 834 From: frank Date: 1/27/2006
Subject: Re: Atlas track
Group: vintageHO Message: 835 From: Ray Hobin Date: 1/27/2006
Subject: Re: Atlas track
Group: vintageHO Message: 836 From: John Barlow Date: 1/27/2006
Subject: Re A Reply to Simon's "Atlas track"
Group: vintageHO Message: 837 From: don.dellmann Date: 1/27/2006
Subject: Re: Atlas track
Group: vintageHO Message: 838 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 1/27/2006
Subject: Re: Atlas track
Group: vintageHO Message: 839 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/29/2006
Subject: Thomas Wine Car
Group: vintageHO Message: 840 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 1/29/2006
Subject: Hobbyline
Group: vintageHO Message: 841 From: mph261 Date: 1/30/2006
Subject: Purity vs. Practicality
Group: vintageHO Message: 842 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 1/30/2006
Subject: Re: Purity vs. Practicality
Group: vintageHO Message: 843 From: frank Date: 1/30/2006
Subject: Re: Hobbyline
Group: vintageHO Message: 844 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 1/30/2006
Subject: Re: Hobbyline
Group: vintageHO Message: 845 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 1/30/2006
Subject: Re: Purity vs. Practicality
Group: vintageHO Message: 846 From: John Barlow Date: 1/30/2006
Subject: Re: Purity vs. Practicality...and Artistry
Group: vintageHO Message: 847 From: Imp Ster Date: 1/30/2006
Subject: da imp rants about Brass gleam and Vintage upgrades
Group: vintageHO Message: 848 From: Don Riley Date: 1/30/2006
Subject: Re: Purity vs. Practicality
Group: vintageHO Message: 849 From: don.dellmann Date: 1/30/2006
Subject: Re: Purity vs. Practicality
Group: vintageHO Message: 850 From: don.dellmann Date: 1/30/2006
Subject: Re: Purity vs. Practicality
Group: vintageHO Message: 851 From: Don Riley Date: 1/30/2006
Subject: Re: da imp rants about Brass gleam and Vintage upgrades
Group: vintageHO Message: 852 From: John Barlow Date: 1/30/2006
Subject: Re: da imp rants about Brass gleam and Vintage upgrades
Group: vintageHO Message: 853 From: Ray Hobin Date: 1/31/2006
Subject: Re: Purity vs. Practicality
Group: vintageHO Message: 854 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 1/31/2006
Subject: Re: Purity vs. Practicality...and Artistry
Group: vintageHO Message: 855 From: Jack Priller Date: 1/31/2006
Subject: Re: da imp rants about Brass gleam and Vintage upgrades
Group: vintageHO Message: 856 From: raymarinaccio Date: 1/31/2006
Subject: Re: Purity vs. Practicality
Group: vintageHO Message: 857 From: Tom Date: 2/1/2006
Subject: Tru Scale Roadbed
Group: vintageHO Message: 858 From: Imp Ster Date: 2/1/2006
Subject: #6 turnouts, brass track grime, Amtrak & VRE
Group: vintageHO Message: 859 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/1/2006
Subject: computer virus
Group: vintageHO Message: 860 From: don.dellmann Date: 2/1/2006
Subject: Re: Tru Scale Roadbed
Group: vintageHO Message: 861 From: Thomas Businger Date: 2/1/2006
Subject: Re: Tru Scale Roadbed
Group: vintageHO Message: 862 From: don.dellmann Date: 2/1/2006
Subject: Re: Tru Scale Roadbed
Group: vintageHO Message: 863 From: Gerry D Date: 2/1/2006
Subject: Re: computer virus
Group: vintageHO Message: 864 From: Garry Spear Date: 2/1/2006
Subject: Re: Tru Scale Roadbed
Group: vintageHO Message: 865 From: don.dellmann Date: 2/2/2006
Subject: Re: Tru Scale Roadbed
Group: vintageHO Message: 866 From: whistlestop2000 Date: 2/2/2006
Subject: Tru-scale roadbed
Group: vintageHO Message: 867 From: Roger Aultman Date: 2/2/2006
Subject: Re: Tru-scale roadbed
Group: vintageHO Message: 868 From: don.dellmann Date: 2/2/2006
Subject: Re: Tru-scale roadbed
Group: vintageHO Message: 869 From: Thomas Businger Date: 2/2/2006
Subject: Re: Tru-scale roadbed
Group: vintageHO Message: 870 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/4/2006
Subject: New photo
Group: vintageHO Message: 871 From: Jack Priller Date: 2/4/2006
Subject: Milled roadbed question
Group: vintageHO Message: 872 From: frank Date: 2/5/2006
Subject: Just back from the Dover NJ train show.
Group: vintageHO Message: 873 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/5/2006
Subject: Help identify this loco
Group: vintageHO Message: 874 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/5/2006
Subject: Re: Just back from the Dover NJ train show.
Group: vintageHO Message: 875 From: frank Date: 2/5/2006
Subject: Re: Milled roadbed question
Group: vintageHO Message: 876 From: frank Date: 2/5/2006
Subject: Re: Just back from the Dover NJ train show.
Group: vintageHO Message: 877 From: frank Date: 2/5/2006
Subject: Re: Help identify this loco
Group: vintageHO Message: 878 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/5/2006
Subject: Re: Help identify this loco
Group: vintageHO Message: 879 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 2/5/2006
Subject: Re: Help identify this loco
Group: vintageHO Message: 880 From: Larry Date: 2/5/2006
Subject: Re: Help identify this loco
Group: vintageHO Message: 881 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/5/2006
Subject: Re: Help identify this loco
Group: vintageHO Message: 882 From: erieberk Date: 2/5/2006
Subject: Re: Help identify this loco
Group: vintageHO Message: 883 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/5/2006
Subject: Re: Help identify this loco
Group: vintageHO Message: 884 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/5/2006
Subject: Re: Help identify this loco
Group: vintageHO Message: 885 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/6/2006
Subject: eBay
Group: vintageHO Message: 886 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/6/2006
Subject: Re: eBay
Group: vintageHO Message: 887 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/6/2006
Subject: eBay
Group: vintageHO Message: 888 From: Imp Ster Date: 2/6/2006
Subject: Lois Scruggs obit
Group: vintageHO Message: 889 From: whistlestop2000 Date: 2/7/2006
Subject: Re: #6 turnouts, brass track grime, Amtrak & VRE
Group: vintageHO Message: 890 From: kurt youngmann Date: 2/7/2006
Subject: howell day
Group: vintageHO Message: 891 From: Imp Ster Date: 2/7/2006
Subject: for Simon: da imp rants on oil for brass ( & zinc) protection
Group: vintageHO Message: 892 From: frank Date: 2/8/2006
Subject: Photos added to Frank o toptrain album
Group: vintageHO Message: 893 From: Rob Quagan Date: 2/8/2006
Subject: Intro & Cleaning Central Valley Trucks - 8 Feb 06
Group: vintageHO Message: 894 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/8/2006
Subject: Re: Photos added to Frank o toptrain album
Group: vintageHO Message: 895 From: Imp Ster Date: 2/8/2006
Subject: ... och! ... Central Valley!! -- (caution, another long imp rant)
Group: vintageHO Message: 896 From: Imp Ster Date: 2/8/2006
Subject: oh yeah, about cleaning CV...
Group: vintageHO Message: 897 From: whistlestop2000 Date: 2/8/2006
Subject: Re: for Simon: da imp rants on oil for brass ( & zinc) protection
Group: vintageHO Message: 898 From: Phil Date: 2/9/2006
Subject: Foam Removal on Brass
Group: vintageHO Message: 899 From: Imp Ster Date: 2/9/2006
Subject: Detailing the Mantua Shifter - MR, 1951
Group: vintageHO Message: 900 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/9/2006
Subject: Re: Detailing the Mantua Shifter - MR, 1951
Group: vintageHO Message: 901 From: Imp Ster Date: 2/9/2006
Subject: the Mantua Shifter - MR, 1951
Group: vintageHO Message: 902 From: Douglas Krahn Date: 2/9/2006
Subject: Re: ... och! ... Central Valley!! -- (caution, another long imp ra
Group: vintageHO Message: 903 From: Don Riley Date: 2/9/2006
Subject: Re: ... och! ... Central Valley!! -- (caution, another long imp ra
Group: vintageHO Message: 904 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/9/2006
Subject: Re: the Mantua Shifter - MR, 1951
Group: vintageHO Message: 905 From: don.dellmann Date: 2/9/2006
Subject: Re: oh yeah, about cleaning CV...
Group: vintageHO Message: 906 From: Rick Jones Date: 2/9/2006
Subject: Re: Intro & Cleaning Central Valley Trucks - 8 Feb 06
Group: vintageHO Message: 907 From: Jack Priller Date: 2/9/2006
Subject: Re: oh yeah, about cleaning CV...
Group: vintageHO Message: 908 From: Imp Ster Date: 2/9/2006
Subject: snake oil and shameless pirating
Group: vintageHO Message: 909 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/10/2006
Subject: Mantua clear loco
Group: vintageHO Message: 910 From: Don Riley Date: 2/10/2006
Subject: Re: Mantua clear loco
Group: vintageHO Message: 911 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/10/2006
Subject: Re: Mantua clear loco
Group: vintageHO Message: 912 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 2/10/2006
Subject: Fwd: Model Train Show in Seattle This Weekend!!!! 50,000 square fee
Group: vintageHO Message: 913 From: Rob Quagan Date: 2/10/2006
Subject: More on Central Valley Trucks (was Cleaning CV)- 10 Feb 06
Group: vintageHO Message: 914 From: don.dellmann Date: 2/10/2006
Subject: Re: Fwd: Model Train Show in Seattle This Weekend!!!! 50,000 square
Group: vintageHO Message: 915 From: don.dellmann Date: 2/10/2006
Subject: Re: Mantua clear loco
Group: vintageHO Message: 916 From: Rob K. Nielsen Date: 2/11/2006
Subject: Re: HO scale vehicles at Wally World!
Group: vintageHO Message: 917 From: Ray Hobin Date: 2/11/2006
Subject: Re: Mantua clear loco
Group: vintageHO Message: 918 From: Dave Slater Date: 2/11/2006
Subject: Re: HO scale vehicles at Wally World!
Group: vintageHO Message: 919 From: Douglas Krahn Date: 2/11/2006
Subject: Re: HO scale vehicles at Wally World!
Group: vintageHO Message: 920 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/12/2006
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO Message: 921 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/12/2006
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO Message: 922 From: Dave Slater Date: 2/12/2006
Subject: Re: HO scale vehicles at Wally World!
Group: vintageHO Message: 923 From: Jack Priller Date: 2/12/2006
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO Message: 924 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/12/2006
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO Message: 925 From: don.dellmann Date: 2/12/2006
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO Message: 926 From: Don Riley Date: 2/12/2006
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO Message: 927 From: Roger Aultman Date: 2/12/2006
Subject: eBay?
Group: vintageHO Message: 928 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/12/2006
Subject: Re: eBay?
Group: vintageHO Message: 929 From: Roger Aultman Date: 2/12/2006
Subject: Re: eBay?
Group: vintageHO Message: 930 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/12/2006
Subject: Re: eBay?
Group: vintageHO Message: 931 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/13/2006
Subject: New photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 932 From: don.dellmann Date: 2/13/2006
Subject: Re: eBay?
Group: vintageHO Message: 933 From: don.dellmann Date: 2/13/2006
Subject: Re: New photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 934 From: Roger Aultman Date: 2/13/2006
Subject: FA eBay old boxcar
Group: vintageHO Message: 935 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 2/13/2006
Subject: Re: New photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 936 From: Roger Aultman Date: 2/13/2006
Subject: Re: FA eBay old boxcar
Group: vintageHO Message: 937 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/14/2006
Subject: Winton
Group: vintageHO Message: 938 From: erieberk Date: 2/14/2006
Subject: Re: Winton
Group: vintageHO Message: 939 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/14/2006
Subject: Re: Winton
Group: vintageHO Message: 940 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/14/2006
Subject: Be careful
Group: vintageHO Message: 941 From: jim gerstley Date: 2/14/2006
Subject: MHP COLA for sale
Group: vintageHO Message: 942 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/14/2006
Subject: Re: Winton
Group: vintageHO Message: 943 From: don.dellmann Date: 2/14/2006
Subject: Re: MHP COLA for sale
Group: vintageHO Message: 944 From: erieberk Date: 2/15/2006
Subject: Re: Winton
Group: vintageHO Message: 945 From: erieberk Date: 2/15/2006
Subject: Re: Winton
Group: vintageHO Message: 946 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/15/2006
Subject: re Winton
Group: vintageHO Message: 947 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/15/2006
Subject: Re-Re-Winton
Group: vintageHO Message: 948 From: frank Date: 2/15/2006
Subject: Moderator. help
Group: vintageHO Message: 949 From: don.dellmann Date: 2/15/2006
Subject: Re: Moderator. help
Group: vintageHO Message: 950 From: kurt youngmann Date: 2/15/2006
Subject: mantua locomotives available
Group: vintageHO Message: 951 From: Imp Ster Date: 2/15/2006
Subject: Y Groups going thru... "ell".
Group: vintageHO Message: 952 From: frank Date: 2/16/2006
Subject: Re: Moderator. help
Group: vintageHO Message: 953 From: Don Riley Date: 2/16/2006
Subject: Re: Y Groups going thru... "ell".
Group: vintageHO Message: 954 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/17/2006
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO Message: 955 From: Imp Ster Date: 2/17/2006
Subject: A Tale Of Two "F" Units
Group: vintageHO Message: 956 From: Don Riley Date: 2/18/2006
Subject: Re: A Tale Of Two "F" Units
Group: vintageHO Message: 957 From: Glenn Date: 2/19/2006
Subject: new member
Group: vintageHO Message: 958 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/19/2006
Subject: Re: new member
Group: vintageHO Message: 959 From: Glenn Date: 2/19/2006
Subject: Re: new member
Group: vintageHO Message: 960 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/19/2006
Subject: Re: new member
Group: vintageHO Message: 961 From: don.dellmann Date: 2/19/2006
Subject: Re: new member
Group: vintageHO Message: 962 From: Glenn Date: 2/19/2006
Subject: Re: new member
Group: vintageHO Message: 963 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/19/2006
Subject: Re: new member
Group: vintageHO Message: 964 From: frank Date: 2/19/2006
Subject: Something to read. A new link. My Trains
Group: vintageHO Message: 965 From: Imp Ster Date: 2/19/2006
Subject: RXR - Look Out For The Trains!! ( ..on imp's webcam)
Group: vintageHO Message: 966 From: erieberk Date: 2/20/2006
Subject: Re: new member
Group: vintageHO Message: 967 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/20/2006
Subject: Re: Something to read. A new link. My Trains
Group: vintageHO Message: 968 From: Douglas Krahn Date: 2/20/2006
Subject: Re: RXR - Look Out For The Trains!! ( ..on imp's webcam)
Group: vintageHO Message: 969 From: Glenn Date: 2/20/2006
Subject: Re: new member
Group: vintageHO Message: 970 From: Rick Jones Date: 2/20/2006
Subject: Re: new member
Group: vintageHO Message: 971 From: Jerald A Brush Date: 2/20/2006
Subject: Another 1941 lurker
Group: vintageHO Message: 972 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/20/2006
Subject: Re: Another 1941 lurker
Group: vintageHO Message: 973 From: Glenn Date: 2/20/2006
Subject: Re: Another 1941 lurker
Group: vintageHO Message: 974 From: ckinzer@fix.net Date: 2/20/2006
Subject: Re: Another 1941 lurker
Group: vintageHO Message: 975 From: Rick Jones Date: 2/21/2006
Subject: Re: Another 1941 lurker
Group: vintageHO Message: 976 From: Imp Ster Date: 2/21/2006
Subject: Re, See The Trains!! ( ..besides those on imp's webcam)
Group: vintageHO Message: 978 From: busgrouches Date: 2/22/2006
Subject: New Member
Group: vintageHO Message: 979 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/22/2006
Subject: Re: "when doves cry" ...a tale of 2 trains
Group: vintageHO Message: 980 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/22/2006
Subject: Re: New Member
Group: vintageHO Message: 981 From: Imp Ster Date: 2/22/2006
Subject: Re: "when imps cry" ...
Group: vintageHO Message: 982 From: Donald Dellmann Date: 2/22/2006
Subject: Re: "when imps cry" ...
Group: vintageHO Message: 983 From: kilbeggan68 Date: 2/22/2006
Subject: Sharknose airhorn
Group: vintageHO Message: 984 From: Larry Date: 2/24/2006
Subject: Re: Sharknose airhorn
Group: vintageHO Message: 985 From: jerrygart5 Date: 2/24/2006
Subject: Re: Sharknose airhorn
Group: vintageHO Message: 986 From: Glenn Date: 2/24/2006
Subject: Re: Sharknose airhorn
Group: vintageHO Message: 987 From: wedfrentz@aol.com Date: 2/24/2006
Subject: Re: Sharknose airhorn
Group: vintageHO Message: 988 From: wedfrentz@aol.com Date: 2/24/2006
Subject: Re: Sharknose airhorn
Group: vintageHO Message: 989 From: Imp Ster Date: 2/25/2006
Subject: Saturday Night Webcast - RXR ! !
Group: vintageHO Message: 990 From: takefive247 Date: 2/26/2006
Subject: New member
Group: vintageHO Message: 991 From: Don Riley Date: 2/26/2006
Subject: Re: New member
Group: vintageHO Message: 992 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 2/27/2006
Subject: Re: New member
Group: vintageHO Message: 993 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/27/2006
Subject: Re: New member
Group: vintageHO Message: 994 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 2/27/2006
Subject: Re: New member
Group: vintageHO Message: 995 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 2/27/2006
Subject: Re: New member
Group: vintageHO Message: 996 From: Glenn Date: 2/27/2006
Subject: Re: New member
Group: vintageHO Message: 997 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 2/27/2006
Subject: Re: New member
Group: vintageHO Message: 998 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/27/2006
Subject: Re: New member
Group: vintageHO Message: 999 From: Glenn Date: 2/27/2006
Subject: Re: New member
Group: vintageHO Message: 1000 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 2/27/2006
Subject: Re: New member
Group: vintageHO Message: 1001 From: Glenn Date: 2/27/2006
Subject: Re: New member
Group: vintageHO Message: 1002 From: takefive247 Date: 2/28/2006
Subject: Re: New member
Group: vintageHO Message: 1003 From: busgrouches Date: 3/1/2006
Subject: Three-in-one kits
Group: vintageHO Message: 1004 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/1/2006
Subject: Re: Three-in-one kits
Group: vintageHO Message: 1005 From: erieberk Date: 3/2/2006
Subject: Re: New member
Group: vintageHO Message: 1007 From: Larry Date: 3/2/2006
Subject: Re: Three-in-one kits
Group: vintageHO Message: 1008 From: erieberk Date: 3/2/2006
Subject: Re: Three-in-one kits
Group: vintageHO Message: 1009 From: kurt youngmann Date: 3/2/2006
Subject: Re: Three-in-one kits
Group: vintageHO Message: 1010 From: Glenn Date: 3/2/2006
Subject: Re: Three-in-one kits
Group: vintageHO Message: 1011 From: takefive247 Date: 3/2/2006
Subject: Re: New member
Group: vintageHO Message: 1012 From: Rick Jones Date: 3/2/2006
Subject: Re: Three-in-one kits
Group: vintageHO Message: 1013 From: Don Rowland Date: 3/2/2006
Subject: Re: Three-in-one kits
Group: vintageHO Message: 1014 From: Rob Quagan Date: 3/2/2006
Subject: Ambroid History - 3 in 1 kit
Group: vintageHO Message: 1015 From: Gerry D Date: 3/2/2006
Subject: Re: Three-in-one kits
Group: vintageHO Message: 1017 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/3/2006
Subject: Three-in-one kits & Tyco op-hoppers
Group: vintageHO Message: 1018 From: Gerry D Date: 3/3/2006
Subject: Re: Three-in-one kits & Tyco op-hoppers
Group: vintageHO Message: 1019 From: busgrouches Date: 3/4/2006
Subject: Three-in-one kits
Group: vintageHO Message: 1020 From: Gerry D Date: 3/4/2006
Subject: Re: Three-in-one kits
Group: vintageHO Message: 1021 From: Gerry D Date: 3/4/2006
Subject: Re: Three-in-one kits
Group: vintageHO Message: 1022 From: Glenn Date: 3/4/2006
Subject: Re: Three-in-one kits & Tyco op-hoppers
Group: vintageHO Message: 1023 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/4/2006
Subject: Fire Trains -
Group: vintageHO Message: 1024 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/4/2006
Subject: notes on the Coffee Mine
Group: vintageHO Message: 1025 From: Gerry D Date: 3/4/2006
Subject: Re: Fire Trains -
Group: vintageHO Message: 1026 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/4/2006
Subject: Re: Fire Trains -
Group: vintageHO Message: 1027 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/4/2006
Subject: Sat Nite RXR Webcast- Old #1 is running!
Group: vintageHO Message: 1028 From: Gerry D Date: 3/4/2006
Subject: Re: Sat Nite RXR Webcast- Old #1 is running!
Group: vintageHO Message: 1029 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/4/2006
Subject: Re: Sat Nite RXR Webcast- Boxcabs and "coffee train" up next
Group: vintageHO Message: 1030 From: Gerry D Date: 3/4/2006
Subject: Re: Sat Nite RXR Webcast- Boxcabs and "coffee train" up next
Group: vintageHO Message: 1031 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/5/2006
Subject: Re: notes on the Coffee Mine
Group: vintageHO Message: 1032 From: Dave Slater Date: 3/5/2006
Subject: Re: WAS notes on the Coffee Mine now metl wheels.
Group: vintageHO Message: 1033 From: Frank Weed Date: 3/5/2006
Subject: Re: notes on the Coffee Mine
Group: vintageHO Message: 1034 From: James B Date: 3/5/2006
Subject: 11th Annual Model Train Show March 12th Cedarburg, WI
Group: vintageHO Message: 1035 From: Jack Priller Date: 3/5/2006
Subject: PSM overhead on eBay
Group: vintageHO Message: 1036 From: Glenn Date: 3/5/2006
Subject: Re: notes on the Coffee Mine
Group: vintageHO Message: 1037 From: Gerry D Date: 3/5/2006
Subject: Re: notes on the Coffee Mine
Group: vintageHO Message: 1038 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/5/2006
Subject: need manual for MRC TrainPower 5 "anteek" powerpack
Group: vintageHO Message: 1039 From: Gerry D Date: 3/5/2006
Subject: Re: need manual for MRC TrainPower 5 "anteek" powerpack
Group: vintageHO Message: 1040 From: Glenn Date: 3/5/2006
Subject: Re: need manual for MRC TrainPower 5 "anteek" powerpack
Group: vintageHO Message: 1041 From: takefive247 Date: 3/6/2006
Subject: Eight Ball Mogul
Group: vintageHO Message: 1042 From: Larry Date: 3/6/2006
Subject: Re: Eight Ball Mogul
Group: vintageHO Message: 1043 From: takefive247 Date: 3/6/2006
Subject: Re: Eight Ball Mogul
Group: vintageHO Message: 1044 From: takefive247 Date: 3/6/2006
Subject: Re: Eight Ball Mogul
Group: vintageHO Message: 1045 From: Frank Weed Date: 3/6/2006
Subject: Re: notes on the Coffee Mine
Group: vintageHO Message: 1046 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 3/6/2006
Subject: Re: Eight Ball Mogul
Group: vintageHO Message: 1047 From: Ray Hobin Date: 3/6/2006
Subject: Re: Eight Ball Mogul
Group: vintageHO Message: 1048 From: Ray Hobin Date: 3/6/2006
Subject: Re: Eight Ball Mogul
Group: vintageHO Message: 1049 From: Larry Date: 3/6/2006
Subject: Re: Eight Ball Mogul
Group: vintageHO Message: 1050 From: erieberk Date: 3/6/2006
Subject: Re: Eight Ball Mogul
Group: vintageHO Message: 1051 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/6/2006
Subject: Re: manual for MRC "anteek" powerpack
Group: vintageHO Message: 1052 From: Glenn Date: 3/6/2006
Subject: Re: Eight Ball Mogul
Group: vintageHO Message: 1053 From: Glenn Date: 3/6/2006
Subject: Re: Eight Ball Mogul
Group: vintageHO Message: 1054 From: Gerry D Date: 3/6/2006
Subject: Re: notes on the Coffee Mine
Group: vintageHO Message: 1055 From: Gerry D Date: 3/6/2006
Subject: Re: manual for MRC "anteek" powerpack
Group: vintageHO Message: 1056 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/6/2006
Subject: Re: need manual for MRC TrainPower 5 "anteek" powerpack
Group: vintageHO Message: 1057 From: takefive247 Date: 3/6/2006
Subject: Re: Eight Ball Mogul
Group: vintageHO Message: 1058 From: Gerry D Date: 3/6/2006
Subject: Re: Eight Ball Mogul
Group: vintageHO Message: 1059 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/6/2006
Subject: Re: MRC "anteek" Golden-era powerpacks
Group: vintageHO Message: 1060 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/6/2006
Subject: re, MRC says they have no information
Group: vintageHO Message: 1061 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/6/2006
Subject: MRC, MDC... whatever. (& a circus train tale.)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1062 From: Ilcentral@aol.com Date: 3/6/2006
Subject: The old days
Group: vintageHO Message: 1063 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/6/2006
Subject: Re: MRC "anteek" Golden-era powerpacks
Group: vintageHO Message: 1064 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 3/7/2006
Subject: Re: The old days
Group: vintageHO Message: 1065 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 3/7/2006
Subject: Re: The old days
Group: vintageHO Message: 1066 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 3/7/2006
Subject: Re: The old days
Group: vintageHO Message: 1067 From: Dave Slater Date: 3/7/2006
Subject: Re: need manual for MRC TrainPower 5 "anteek" powerpack
Group: vintageHO Message: 1068 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 3/7/2006
Subject: Re: MRC "anteek" Golden-era powerpacks
Group: vintageHO Message: 1069 From: Graeme Eldred Date: 3/7/2006
Subject: Re: The old days
Group: vintageHO Message: 1070 From: Frank Weed Date: 3/7/2006
Subject: Re: re, MRC says they have no information
Group: vintageHO Message: 1071 From: Ilcentral@aol.com Date: 3/7/2006
Subject: Re: The old days
Group: vintageHO Message: 1072 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/7/2006
Subject: Re: Internet Archives
Group: vintageHO Message: 1073 From: ckinzer@fix.net Date: 3/7/2006
Subject: Re: The old days
Group: vintageHO Message: 1074 From: Ilcentral@aol.com Date: 3/7/2006
Subject: Re: The old days
Group: vintageHO Message: 1075 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 3/7/2006
Subject: Re: The old days
Group: vintageHO Message: 1076 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/7/2006
Subject: Re: re, MRC says they have no information
Group: vintageHO Message: 1077 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/7/2006
Subject: Re: The old days
Group: vintageHO Message: 1078 From: Glenn Date: 3/7/2006
Subject: Re: Eight Ball Mogul
Group: vintageHO Message: 1079 From: kilbeggan68 Date: 3/7/2006
Subject: Code track?
Group: vintageHO Message: 1080 From: takefive247 Date: 3/7/2006
Subject: Re: Eight Ball Mogul
Group: vintageHO Message: 1081 From: takefive247 Date: 3/7/2006
Subject: Re: Eight Ball Mogul
Group: vintageHO Message: 1082 From: ckinzer@fix.net Date: 3/7/2006
Subject: Re: Code track?
Group: vintageHO Message: 1083 From: Ilcentral@aol.com Date: 3/7/2006
Subject: Re: The old days
Group: vintageHO Message: 1084 From: Glenn Date: 3/7/2006
Subject: Re: Code track?
Group: vintageHO Message: 1085 From: Glenn Date: 3/7/2006
Subject: Re: Eight Ball Mogul
Group: vintageHO Message: 1086 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 3/8/2006
Subject: Re: Code track?
Group: vintageHO Message: 1087 From: Frank Weed Date: 3/8/2006
Subject: Re: notes on the Coffee Mine
Group: vintageHO Message: 1088 From: Dave Slater Date: 3/8/2006
Subject: Re: notes on the Coffee Mine
Group: vintageHO Message: 1089 From: Bruce Wilson Date: 3/8/2006
Subject: Re: Code track?
Group: vintageHO Message: 1090 From: wedfrentz@aol.com Date: 3/8/2006
Subject: Re: Code track?
Group: vintageHO Message: 1091 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/8/2006
Subject: Re: notes on the Coffee Mine
Group: vintageHO Message: 1092 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/8/2006
Subject: search results for MRC Train Power: zip
Group: vintageHO Message: 1093 From: takefive247 Date: 3/8/2006
Subject: Re: The old days
Group: vintageHO Message: 1094 From: takefive247 Date: 3/8/2006
Subject: Re: The old days
Group: vintageHO Message: 1095 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/8/2006
Subject: Re: notes on the Coffee Mine
Group: vintageHO Message: 1096 From: Larry Date: 3/8/2006
Subject: Re: notes on the Coffee Mine
Group: vintageHO Message: 1097 From: Jack Priller Date: 3/8/2006
Subject: Re: The old days
Group: vintageHO Message: 1098 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 3/9/2006
Subject: Re: Code track?
Group: vintageHO Message: 1099 From: Gerry D Date: 3/9/2006
Subject: Re: notes on the Coffee Mine
Group: vintageHO Message: 1100 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 3/9/2006
Subject: Re: notes on the Coffee Mine
Group: vintageHO Message: 1101 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/10/2006
Subject: 11th Annual Model Train Show, 3/12/2006, 10:00 am
Group: vintageHO Message: 1102 From: frank Date: 3/10/2006
Subject: Remember Sunday is the Mother Seaton train show
Group: vintageHO Message: 1103 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 3/10/2006
Subject: Fwd: WS Newletter (Vol. 2 No. 9)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1104 From: frank Date: 3/10/2006
Subject: Re: The old days
Group: vintageHO Message: 1105 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 3/10/2006
Subject: Re: The old days
Group: vintageHO Message: 1106 From: Gerry D Date: 3/10/2006
Subject: Re: The old days
Group: vintageHO Message: 1107 From: Gerry Date: 3/10/2006
Subject: Is there anyone....
Group: vintageHO Message: 1108 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 3/11/2006
Subject: Re: Is there anyone....
Group: vintageHO Message: 1109 From: Jack Priller Date: 3/11/2006
Subject: Ebay sale
Group: vintageHO Message: 1110 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/11/2006
Subject: Re: Ebay sale
Group: vintageHO Message: 1111 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/11/2006
Subject: Re: Is there anyone.... (MDC - 1507 "Fire Train" data)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1112 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 3/11/2006
Subject: Re: Ebay sale
Group: vintageHO Message: 1113 From: Jack Priller Date: 3/11/2006
Subject: Re: Ebay sale
Group: vintageHO Message: 1114 From: Don Riley Date: 3/11/2006
Subject: Re: Is there anyone.... (MDC - 1507 "Fire Train" data)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1115 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/11/2006
Subject: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1116 From: Ilcentral@aol.com Date: 3/11/2006
Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1117 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 3/11/2006
Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1118 From: Gerry D Date: 3/11/2006
Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1119 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/12/2006
Subject: beware Blue Box speculators! (Sunday Sermon)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1120 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/12/2006
Subject: re, John's ton of blue box kits
Group: vintageHO Message: 1121 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/12/2006
Subject: Re: Ebay sale
Group: vintageHO Message: 1122 From: Ilcentral@aol.com Date: 3/12/2006
Subject: Re: re, John's ton of blue box kits
Group: vintageHO Message: 1123 From: Don Riley Date: 3/12/2006
Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1124 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 3/12/2006
Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1125 From: Don Riley Date: 3/12/2006
Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1126 From: Don Riley Date: 3/12/2006
Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1127 From: Rick Jones Date: 3/12/2006
Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1128 From: ckinzer@fix.net Date: 3/12/2006
Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1129 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 3/12/2006
Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1130 From: ckinzer@fix.net Date: 3/12/2006
Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1131 From: Gerry D Date: 3/12/2006
Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1132 From: Gerry D Date: 3/12/2006
Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1133 From: Glenn Date: 3/12/2006
Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1134 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/12/2006
Subject: stoking the coals to heap on the unsaved RTR heads
Group: vintageHO Message: 1135 From: Tom Date: 3/12/2006
Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1136 From: Ilcentral@aol.com Date: 3/12/2006
Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in de...
Group: vintageHO Message: 1137 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/12/2006
Subject: Kadee's #4 in MDC (Roundhouse) coupler pockets
Group: vintageHO Message: 1138 From: Gerry D Date: 3/12/2006
Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1139 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/12/2006
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO Message: 1140 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/12/2006
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO Message: 1141 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 3/13/2006
Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1142 From: erieberk Date: 3/13/2006
Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1143 From: Phil Date: 3/13/2006
Subject: Re: Metal Wheels in Bulk
Group: vintageHO Message: 1144 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 3/13/2006
Subject: Re: Metal Wheels in Bulk
Group: vintageHO Message: 1145 From: Don Rowland Date: 3/13/2006
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO Message: 1146 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/13/2006
Subject: Re: Metal Wheels in Bulk
Group: vintageHO Message: 1147 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/13/2006
Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1148 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/13/2006
Subject: Re: New (webcam) file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO Message: 1149 From: Don Riley Date: 3/13/2006
Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1150 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/13/2006
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO Message: 1151 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/13/2006
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO Message: 1152 From: Ilcentral@aol.com Date: 3/13/2006
Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1153 From: AL Date: 3/13/2006
Subject: Re: Digest Number 287
Group: vintageHO Message: 1154 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/14/2006
Subject: Re: New (webcam) file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO Message: 1155 From: dinky2353 Date: 3/14/2006
Subject: Remove foam damage from painted models
Group: vintageHO Message: 1156 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 3/15/2006
Subject: Goodbye
Group: vintageHO Message: 1157 From: takefive247 Date: 3/15/2006
Subject: capacitor discharge
Group: vintageHO Message: 1158 From: Gerry D Date: 3/15/2006
Subject: Re: capacitor discharge
Group: vintageHO Message: 1159 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 3/15/2006
Subject: Re: capacitor discharge
Group: vintageHO Message: 1160 From: takefive247 Date: 3/15/2006
Subject: Re: capacitor discharge
Group: vintageHO Message: 1161 From: takefive247 Date: 3/15/2006
Subject: Re: capacitor discharge
Group: vintageHO Message: 1162 From: Tom Date: 3/15/2006
Subject: Re: Kadee's #4 in MDC (Roundhouse) coupler pockets
Group: vintageHO Message: 1163 From: Tom Date: 3/15/2006
Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in de...
Group: vintageHO Message: 1164 From: Ilcentral@aol.com Date: 3/15/2006
Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in de...
Group: vintageHO Message: 1165 From: Tom Date: 3/15/2006
Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1166 From: Tom Date: 3/15/2006
Subject: Thanks Everyone
Group: vintageHO Message: 1167 From: Glenn Date: 3/15/2006
Subject: Re: capacitor discharge
Group: vintageHO Message: 1168 From: Glenn Date: 3/15/2006
Subject: Re: capacitor discharge
Group: vintageHO Message: 1169 From: Glenn Date: 3/15/2006
Subject: Re: Kadee's #4 in MDC (Roundhouse) coupler pockets
Group: vintageHO Message: 1170 From: Dave Slater Date: 3/16/2006
Subject: Re: Kadee's #4 in MDC (Roundhouse) coupler pockets
Group: vintageHO Message: 1171 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/16/2006
Subject: Re: Kadee's #4 in MDC (Roundhouse) coupler pockets
Group: vintageHO Message: 1172 From: Garry Spear Date: 3/16/2006
Subject: Re: Kadee's #4 in MDC (Roundhouse) coupler pockets
Group: vintageHO Message: 1173 From: takefive247 Date: 3/16/2006
Subject: Re: capacitor discharge
Group: vintageHO Message: 1174 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 3/16/2006
Subject: Re: capacitor discharge
Group: vintageHO Message: 1175 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 3/16/2006
Subject: Re: Kadee's #4 in MDC (Roundhouse) coupler pockets
Group: vintageHO Message: 1176 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 3/16/2006
Subject: Re: capacitor discharge
Group: vintageHO Message: 1177 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 3/16/2006
Subject: Re: capacitor discharge
Group: vintageHO Message: 1178 From: Don Riley Date: 3/16/2006
Subject: Re: Accurail autorack was Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca.
Group: vintageHO Message: 1179 From: dougkrahn Date: 3/16/2006
Subject: Re: Accurail autorack was Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca.
Group: vintageHO Message: 1180 From: AL Date: 3/16/2006
Subject: tyco truck conversion
Group: vintageHO Message: 1181 From: Gerry D Date: 3/16/2006
Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1182 From: Gerry D Date: 3/16/2006
Subject: Re: tyco truck conversion
Group: vintageHO Message: 1183 From: Gerry D Date: 3/16/2006
Subject: Re: capacitor discharge
Group: vintageHO Message: 1184 From: Glenn Date: 3/16/2006
Subject: Re: Kadee's #4 in MDC (Roundhouse) coupler pockets
Group: vintageHO Message: 1185 From: Glenn Date: 3/16/2006
Subject: Re: capacitor discharge
Group: vintageHO Message: 1186 From: Glenn Date: 3/16/2006
Subject: Re: tyco truck conversion
Group: vintageHO Message: 1187 From: takefive247 Date: 3/16/2006
Subject: Re: capacitor discharge
Group: vintageHO Message: 1188 From: takefive247 Date: 3/16/2006
Subject: Re: tyco truck conversion
Group: vintageHO Message: 1189 From: Gerry D Date: 3/16/2006
Subject: Re: tyco truck conversion
Group: vintageHO Message: 1190 From: Gerry D Date: 3/16/2006
Subject: Re: capacitor discharge
Group: vintageHO Message: 1191 From: Gerry D Date: 3/16/2006
Subject: Re: tyco truck conversion
Group: vintageHO Message: 1192 From: Dave Slater Date: 3/16/2006
Subject: Re: tyco truck conversion
Group: vintageHO Message: 1193 From: Garry Spear Date: 3/16/2006
Subject: Re: tyco truck conversion
Group: vintageHO Message: 1194 From: Gerry D Date: 3/16/2006
Subject: Re: tyco truck conversion
Group: vintageHO Message: 1195 From: Glenn Date: 3/16/2006
Subject: Re: capacitor discharge
Group: vintageHO Message: 1196 From: Gerry D Date: 3/16/2006
Subject: Re: capacitor discharge
Group: vintageHO Message: 1197 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/16/2006
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO Message: 1198 From: Gerry Date: 3/16/2006
Subject: Circuitron NOT.
Group: vintageHO Message: 1199 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/16/2006
Subject: Re: tyco truck conversion
Group: vintageHO Message: 1200 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/17/2006
Subject: Re: Goodbye
Group: vintageHO Message: 1201 From: Dave Slater Date: 3/17/2006
Subject: Re: tyco truck conversion
Group: vintageHO Message: 1202 From: takefive247 Date: 3/17/2006
Subject: Re: capacitor discharge
Group: vintageHO Message: 1203 From: Gerry Date: 3/17/2006
Subject: Re: capacitor discharge
Group: vintageHO Message: 1204 From: AL Date: 3/17/2006
Subject: Tyco as vintage ?
Group: vintageHO Message: 1205 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/17/2006
Subject: Re: Tyco as vintage ? (did you say... brass track?? )
Group: vintageHO Message: 1206 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/17/2006
Subject: Sixteen Tons with body-mounted KDs
Group: vintageHO Message: 1207 From: Gerry D Date: 3/17/2006
Subject: Re: Tyco as vintage ?
Group: vintageHO Message: 1208 From: Gerry D Date: 3/17/2006
Subject: Re: Goodbye
Group: vintageHO Message: 1210 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/17/2006
Subject: if i could save trains in a bottle...
Group: vintageHO Message: 1211 From: Don Riley Date: 3/17/2006
Subject: Re: if i could save trains in a bottle...
Group: vintageHO Message: 1213 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/18/2006
Subject: Re: Goodbye
Group: vintageHO Message: 1216 From: Dave Slater Date: 3/18/2006
Subject: Re: RXR - Look Out For The Cars !
Group: vintageHO Message: 1217 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/18/2006
Subject: Re: Sixteen Tons with body-mounted KDs
Group: vintageHO Message: 1218 From: whistlestop2000 Date: 3/18/2006
Subject: A cup of Tca anyone?
Group: vintageHO Message: 1219 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/19/2006
Subject: a Fine Irish gandy-dancer, indeed
Group: vintageHO Message: 1220 From: Joe Melhorn Date: 3/19/2006
Subject: Want to buy - Roundhouse 3-in-1 kits
Group: vintageHO Message: 1221 From: takefive247 Date: 3/19/2006
Subject: Re: a Fine Irish gandy-dancer, indeed
Group: vintageHO Message: 1222 From: takefive247 Date: 3/19/2006
Subject: Metal wheel sets
Group: vintageHO Message: 1223 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 3/19/2006
Subject: Re: A cup of Tca anyone?
Group: vintageHO Message: 1224 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 3/19/2006
Subject: The future of Vintage HO - some ramblings
Group: vintageHO Message: 1225 From: Rick Jones Date: 3/19/2006
Subject: Re: A cup of Tca anyone?
Group: vintageHO Message: 1226 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 3/19/2006
Subject: Re: A cup of Tca anyone?
Group: vintageHO Message: 1227 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/19/2006
Subject: 9:44-55 PM EST - R X R - Look Out For The Cars!
Group: vintageHO Message: 1228 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/19/2006
Subject: a note of a possible future of Vintage HO - some ramblings
Group: vintageHO Message: 1229 From: whistlestop2000 Date: 3/20/2006
Subject: Re: a note of a possible future of Vintage HO - some ramblings
Group: vintageHO Message: 1230 From: AL Date: 3/20/2006
Subject: is da Imp actually the re-incarnation of EL Moore ?
Group: vintageHO Message: 1231 From: Jack Priller Date: 3/21/2006
Subject: The ¿good? old days
Group: vintageHO Message: 1232 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 3/21/2006
Subject: Re: The ¿good? old days
Group: vintageHO Message: 1233 From: Jack Priller Date: 3/22/2006
Subject: Re: The ¿good? old days
Group: vintageHO Message: 1234 From: Jack Priller Date: 3/22/2006
Subject: Date please
Group: vintageHO Message: 1235 From: takefive247 Date: 3/23/2006
Subject: Kadee & Mantua
Group: vintageHO Message: 1236 From: Glenn Date: 3/23/2006
Subject: Re: Kadee & Mantua
Group: vintageHO Message: 1237 From: Angus Macdonald Date: 3/23/2006
Subject: (no subject)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1238 From: Glenn Date: 3/23/2006
Subject: Re: (unknown)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1239 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 3/24/2006
Subject: Re: Kadee & Mantua
Group: vintageHO Message: 1240 From: takefive247 Date: 3/24/2006
Subject: Re: Kadee & Mantua
Group: vintageHO Message: 1241 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 3/24/2006
Subject: Re: Kadee & Mantua
Group: vintageHO Message: 1242 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 3/24/2006
Subject: Re: Kadee & Mantua
Group: vintageHO Message: 1243 From: Glenn Date: 3/24/2006
Subject: Re: Kadee & Mantua
Group: vintageHO Message: 1244 From: Phil Bostian Date: 3/25/2006
Subject: Re: Kadee & Mantua
Group: vintageHO Message: 1245 From: takefive247 Date: 3/25/2006
Subject: Re: Kadee & Mantua
Group: vintageHO Message: 1246 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 3/25/2006
Subject: Re: Kadee & Mantua
Group: vintageHO Message: 1247 From: AL Date: 3/25/2006
Subject: old goodies at the club auction
Group: vintageHO Message: 1248 From: Glenn Date: 3/25/2006
Subject: Re: old goodies at the club auction
Group: vintageHO Message: 1249 From: takefive247 Date: 3/25/2006
Subject: Re: old goodies at the club auction
Group: vintageHO Message: 1250 From: Glenn Date: 3/25/2006
Subject: Re: old goodies at the club auction
Group: vintageHO Message: 1251 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 3/25/2006
Subject: Re: Kadee & Mantua
Group: vintageHO Message: 1252 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 3/25/2006
Subject: Re: old goodies at the club auction
Group: vintageHO Message: 1253 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/26/2006
Subject: Tyco-Mantuas reverse running kink
Group: vintageHO Message: 1254 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/26/2006
Subject: Re: Tyco-Mantuas reverse running kink
Group: vintageHO Message: 1255 From: takefive247 Date: 3/26/2006
Subject: 6volt vs 12volt
Group: vintageHO Message: 1256 From: UptownVideo@juno.com Date: 3/26/2006
Subject: Re: Remove foam damage from painted models
Group: vintageHO Message: 1257 From: Don Rowland Date: 3/26/2006
Subject: Re: old goodies at the club auction
Group: vintageHO Message: 1258 From: takefive247 Date: 3/26/2006
Subject: Help identify
Group: vintageHO Message: 1259 From: takefive247 Date: 3/26/2006
Subject: Re: Tyco-Mantuas reverse running kink
Group: vintageHO Message: 1260 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 3/26/2006
Subject: Re: Tyco-Mantuas reverse running kink
Group: vintageHO Message: 1261 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 3/26/2006
Subject: Some vintage recollections are in April 2006 RMC
Group: vintageHO Message: 1262 From: takefive247 Date: 3/26/2006
Subject: Re: Tyco-Mantuas reverse running kink
Group: vintageHO Message: 1263 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 3/26/2006
Subject: Re: Tyco-Mantuas reverse running kink
Group: vintageHO Message: 1264 From: takefive247 Date: 3/26/2006
Subject: Kadee spring pic
Group: vintageHO Message: 1265 From: Glenn Date: 3/26/2006
Subject: Re: old goodies at the club auction
Group: vintageHO Message: 1266 From: Glenn Date: 3/26/2006
Subject: Re: 6volt vs 12volt
Group: vintageHO Message: 1267 From: Glenn Date: 3/26/2006
Subject: Re: old goodies at the club auction
Group: vintageHO Message: 1268 From: takefive247 Date: 3/26/2006
Subject: Re: 6volt vs 12volt
Group: vintageHO Message: 1269 From: Glenn Date: 3/26/2006
Subject: Re: Help identify
Group: vintageHO Message: 1270 From: Glenn Date: 3/26/2006
Subject: Re: Tyco-Mantuas reverse running kink
Group: vintageHO Message: 1271 From: Glenn Date: 3/26/2006
Subject: Re: Tyco-Mantuas reverse running kink
Group: vintageHO Message: 1272 From: Glenn Date: 3/26/2006
Subject: Re: 6volt vs 12volt
Group: vintageHO Message: 1273 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 3/26/2006
Subject: Re: old goodies at the club auction
Group: vintageHO Message: 1274 From: Gerry D Date: 3/26/2006
Subject: Re: Kadee spring pic
Group: vintageHO Message: 1275 From: Garrett W. Rea Date: 3/27/2006
Subject: A question from a new member, GHC Atlantics and Bowser/Penn Line
Group: vintageHO Message: 1276 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/27/2006
Subject: Re: A question from a new member, GHC Atlantics and Bowser/Penn Line
Group: vintageHO Message: 1277 From: Bill Daley Date: 3/27/2006
Subject: Re: A question from a new member, GHC Atlantics and Bowser/Penn Line
Group: vintageHO Message: 1278 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 3/27/2006
Subject: Re: Tyco-Mantuas reverse running kink
Group: vintageHO Message: 1279 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 3/27/2006
Subject: Re: A question from a new member, GHC Atlantics and Bowser/Penn Line
Group: vintageHO Message: 1280 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/27/2006
Subject: re, da sleeper @ da next table
Group: vintageHO Message: 1281 From: Garrett W. Rea Date: 3/27/2006
Subject: Re: A question from a new member, GHC Atlantics and Bowser/Penn Line
Group: vintageHO Message: 1282 From: Garrett W. Rea Date: 3/27/2006
Subject: Re: re, da sleeper @ da next table
Group: vintageHO Message: 1283 From: frank Date: 3/27/2006
Subject: Re: Help identify
Group: vintageHO Message: 1284 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/27/2006
Subject: Re: Aerotrain (was Help identify)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1285 From: frank Date: 3/27/2006
Subject: Re: Aerotrain (was Help identify)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1286 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/27/2006
Subject: Re: Aerotrain (was Help identify)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1287 From: Don Rowland Date: 3/27/2006
Subject: Re: old goodies at the club auction
Group: vintageHO Message: 1288 From: Gerry D Date: 3/27/2006
Subject: Re: Tyco-Mantuas reverse running kink
Group: vintageHO Message: 1289 From: Gerry D Date: 3/27/2006
Subject: Re: Tyco-Mantuas reverse running kink
Group: vintageHO Message: 1290 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 3/28/2006
Subject: Re: Tyco-Mantuas reverse running kink
Group: vintageHO Message: 1291 From: AL Date: 3/28/2006
Subject: help identify this old 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 1292 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 3/28/2006
Subject: Re: help identify this old 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 1293 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/28/2006
Subject: re, the 'puffing' 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 1294 From: frank Date: 3/28/2006
Subject: Re: re, the 'puffing' 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 1295 From: frank Date: 3/28/2006
Subject: Re: re, the 'puffing' 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 1296 From: Glenn Date: 3/28/2006
Subject: Re: Aerotrain (was Help identify)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1297 From: Glenn Date: 3/28/2006
Subject: Re: old goodies at the club auction
Group: vintageHO Message: 1298 From: Glenn Date: 3/28/2006
Subject: Re: help identify this old 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 1299 From: Glenn Date: 3/28/2006
Subject: Re: re, the 'puffing' 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 1300 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/28/2006
Subject: Re: Tyco-Mantuas reverse running kink
Group: vintageHO Message: 1301 From: Garry Spear Date: 3/28/2006
Subject: Re: Tyco-Mantuas reverse running kink
Group: vintageHO Message: 1302 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 3/28/2006
Subject: Re: Tyco-Mantuas reverse running kink
Group: vintageHO Message: 1303 From: Don Rowland Date: 3/28/2006
Subject: Re: help identify this old 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 1304 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 3/28/2006
Subject: Re: help identify this old 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 1305 From: Don Riley Date: 3/28/2006
Subject: Re: help identify this old 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 1306 From: erieberk Date: 3/29/2006
Subject: Re: 6volt vs 12volt
Group: vintageHO Message: 1307 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/29/2006
Subject: re, the 'shot-puffing' 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 1308 From: Ray Hobin Date: 3/29/2006
Subject: Re: 6volt vs 12volt
Group: vintageHO Message: 1309 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 3/29/2006
Subject: Value of old engine
Group: vintageHO Message: 1310 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 3/29/2006
Subject: Re: re, the 'shot-puffing' 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 1311 From: Glenn Date: 3/29/2006
Subject: Re: re, the 'shot-puffing' 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 1312 From: Glenn Date: 3/29/2006
Subject: Re: Value of old engine
Group: vintageHO Message: 1313 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 3/29/2006
Subject: Re: 6volt vs 12volt
Group: vintageHO Message: 1314 From: Glenn Date: 3/29/2006
Subject: Re: 6volt vs 12volt
Group: vintageHO Message: 1315 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 3/29/2006
Subject: Re: Value of old engine
Group: vintageHO Message: 1316 From: erieberk Date: 3/30/2006
Subject: Re: 6volt vs 12volt
Group: vintageHO Message: 1317 From: Ray Hobin Date: 3/30/2006
Subject: Re: 6volt vs 12volt
Group: vintageHO Message: 1318 From: erieberk Date: 3/30/2006
Subject: Re: 6volt vs 12volt
Group: vintageHO Message: 1319 From: Garry Spear Date: 3/30/2006
Subject: Re: 6volt vs 12volt
Group: vintageHO Message: 1320 From: Glenn Date: 3/30/2006
Subject: Re: 6volt vs 12volt
Group: vintageHO Message: 1321 From: Gerry Date: 3/30/2006
Subject: 6 volts, 12 volts, nawh.....
Group: vintageHO Message: 1322 From: takefive247 Date: 3/30/2006
Subject: Re: 6volt vs 12volt
Group: vintageHO Message: 1323 From: Dave Slater Date: 3/30/2006
Subject: Re: help identify this old 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 1324 From: Glenn Date: 3/30/2006
Subject: Locos available
Group: vintageHO Message: 1325 From: erieberk Date: 3/31/2006
Subject: Re: 6volt vs 12volt
Group: vintageHO Message: 1326 From: Garrett W. Rea Date: 3/31/2006
Subject: Binkley (I think) passenger car question
Group: vintageHO Message: 1327 From: Glenn Date: 3/31/2006
Subject: Re: 6volt vs 12volt
Group: vintageHO Message: 1328 From: erieberk Date: 4/1/2006
Subject: Re: Binkley (I think) passenger car question
Group: vintageHO Message: 1329 From: Garrett W. Rea Date: 4/1/2006
Subject: Re: Binkley (I think) passenger car question
Group: vintageHO Message: 1330 From: erieberk Date: 4/1/2006
Subject: Re: Binkley (I think) passenger car question
Group: vintageHO Message: 1331 From: Garrett W. Rea Date: 4/1/2006
Subject: Re: Binkley (I think) passenger car question
Group: vintageHO Message: 1332 From: Wobbly913 Date: 4/1/2006
Subject: Re: Binkley passenger cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 1333 From: wgnrr423 Date: 4/2/2006
Subject: Re: Binkley (I think) passenger car question
Group: vintageHO Message: 1334 From: wgnrr423 Date: 4/2/2006
Subject: Re: Binkley (I think) passenger car question
Group: vintageHO Message: 1335 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/2/2006
Subject: Re: Moderated posts (was"Re: Binkley (I think) passenger car questi
Group: vintageHO Message: 1336 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/2/2006
Subject: Re: Binkley passenger cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 1337 From: erieberk Date: 4/2/2006
Subject: Re: Binkley (I think) passenger car question
Group: vintageHO Message: 1338 From: erieberk Date: 4/2/2006
Subject: Re: Binkley passenger cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 1339 From: Rick Jones Date: 4/2/2006
Subject: Re: Binkley passenger cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 1340 From: Glenn Date: 4/2/2006
Subject: Re: Binkley (I think) passenger car question
Group: vintageHO Message: 1341 From: Garrett W. Rea Date: 4/3/2006
Subject: Binkley Bits, eBay cars,
Group: vintageHO Message: 1342 From: Garrett Rea Date: 4/4/2006
Subject: Binkley photos and "retro" HO photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 1343 From: jerrygart5 Date: 4/4/2006
Subject: Re: Binkley photos and "retro" HO photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 1344 From: Garrett W. Rea Date: 4/4/2006
Subject: Another retro photo posted
Group: vintageHO Message: 1345 From: AL Date: 4/5/2006
Subject: Re: Digest Number 310
Group: vintageHO Message: 1346 From: AL Date: 4/5/2006
Subject: J English Yardbird
Group: vintageHO Message: 1347 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 4/5/2006
Subject: Re: Digest Number 310
Group: vintageHO Message: 1348 From: Glenn Date: 4/5/2006
Subject: Re: J English Yardbird
Group: vintageHO Message: 1349 From: Glenn Date: 4/5/2006
Subject: Re: Digest Number 310
Group: vintageHO Message: 1350 From: Paul Date: 4/7/2006
Subject: Looking for info on Thomas Industries
Group: vintageHO Message: 1351 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/7/2006
Subject: PING Jack
Group: vintageHO Message: 1352 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/7/2006
Subject: Re: Looking for info on Thomas Industries
Group: vintageHO Message: 1353 From: Roger Aultman Date: 4/7/2006
Subject: Re: Looking for info on Thomas Industries
Group: vintageHO Message: 1354 From: Larry Date: 4/7/2006
Subject: Re: Looking for info on Thomas Industries
Group: vintageHO Message: 1355 From: Jack Priller Date: 4/7/2006
Subject: Re: PING Jack
Group: vintageHO Message: 1356 From: Garry Spear Date: 4/7/2006
Subject: Re: Looking for info on Thomas Industries
Group: vintageHO Message: 1357 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/7/2006
Subject: Re: PING Jack
Group: vintageHO Message: 1358 From: Glenn Date: 4/7/2006
Subject: Re: Looking for info on Thomas Industries
Group: vintageHO Message: 1359 From: Garry Spear Date: 4/7/2006
Subject: Re: Looking for info on Thomas Industries
Group: vintageHO Message: 1360 From: Jack Priller Date: 4/7/2006
Subject: Re: PING Jack
Group: vintageHO Message: 1361 From: Lindley Ruddick Date: 4/8/2006
Subject: Heritage Models Gandy Dancers????
Group: vintageHO Message: 1362 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/8/2006
Subject: Re: PING Jack
Group: vintageHO Message: 1363 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/8/2006
Subject: Re: Looking for info on Thomas Industries
Group: vintageHO Message: 1364 From: Jim Snyder Date: 4/8/2006
Subject: More Old Cars: "Old HO, Vol. II"
Group: vintageHO Message: 1365 From: takefive247 Date: 4/8/2006
Subject: Re: PING Jack
Group: vintageHO Message: 1366 From: Paul Date: 4/8/2006
Subject: Re: Looking for info on Thomas Industries
Group: vintageHO Message: 1367 From: Jim Snyder Date: 4/8/2006
Subject: Re: More Old Cars: "Old HO, Vol. II"
Group: vintageHO Message: 1368 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/8/2006
Subject: Re: More Old Cars: "Old HO, Vol. II"
Group: vintageHO Message: 1369 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/8/2006
Subject: Re: PING Jack
Group: vintageHO Message: 1370 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/8/2006
Subject: Re: More Old Cars: "Old HO, Vol. II"
Group: vintageHO Message: 1371 From: Garry Spear Date: 4/8/2006
Subject: Re: Looking for info on Thomas Industries
Group: vintageHO Message: 1372 From: Imp Ster Date: 4/9/2006
Subject: SundaySermon: fun things to do w/ EZ-Mate couplers
Group: vintageHO Message: 1374 From: Douglas Krahn Date: 4/9/2006
Subject: Re: SundaySermon: fun things to do w/ EZ-Mate couplers
Group: vintageHO Message: 1375 From: Jack Priller Date: 4/9/2006
Subject: Re: SundaySermon: fun things to do w/ EZ-Mate couplers
Group: vintageHO Message: 1376 From: Jim Snyder Date: 4/9/2006
Subject: Re: More Old Cars: "Old HO, Vol. II"
Group: vintageHO Message: 1377 From: Jim Snyder Date: 4/9/2006
Subject: Qustion, Re.: Varney 2-8-4
Group: vintageHO Message: 1378 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/9/2006
Subject: Re: SundaySermon: fun things to do w/ EZ-Mate couplers
Group: vintageHO Message: 1379 From: Glenn Date: 4/9/2006
Subject: Re: Looking for info on Thomas Industries
Group: vintageHO Message: 1380 From: Jim Snyder Date: 4/9/2006
Subject: ...and a few more...
Group: vintageHO Message: 1381 From: Glenn Date: 4/9/2006
Subject: Re: Qustion, Re.: Varney 2-8-4
Group: vintageHO Message: 1382 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/10/2006
Subject: Re: ...and a few more...
Group: vintageHO Message: 1383 From: Larry Date: 4/10/2006
Subject: Re: Qustion, Re.: Varney 2-8-4
Group: vintageHO Message: 1384 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 4/10/2006
Subject: Re: Qustion, Re.: Varney 2-8-4
Group: vintageHO Message: 1385 From: shargue Date: 4/11/2006
Subject: Red Ball NYC 4-Wheel Coal Hopper
Group: vintageHO Message: 1386 From: erieberk Date: 4/11/2006
Subject: Re: Red Ball NYC 4-Wheel Coal Hopper
Group: vintageHO Message: 1387 From: Rob Quagan Date: 4/11/2006
Subject: Central Valley Truck Wheelset Upgrade Process - 11 Apr 06
Group: vintageHO Message: 1388 From: Steve Argue Date: 4/11/2006
Subject: Red Ball NYC 4-Wheel Coal Hopper
Group: vintageHO Message: 1389 From: erieberk Date: 4/11/2006
Subject: Re: Red Ball NYC 4-Wheel Coal Hopper
Group: vintageHO Message: 1390 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 4/12/2006
Subject: Gorre & Daphetid pictures that have never been seen
Group: vintageHO Message: 1391 From: frank Date: 4/12/2006
Subject: New Album "Toptrain Old Trains"
Group: vintageHO Message: 1392 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/12/2006
Subject: Re: New Album "Toptrain Old Trains"
Group: vintageHO Message: 1393 From: frank Date: 4/12/2006
Subject: Re: New Album "Toptrain Old Trains"
Group: vintageHO Message: 1394 From: takefive247 Date: 4/12/2006
Subject: Kadee magnets
Group: vintageHO Message: 1395 From: Glenn Date: 4/12/2006
Subject: Re: Kadee magnets
Group: vintageHO Message: 1396 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/12/2006
Subject: Re: New Album "Toptrain Old Trains"
Group: vintageHO Message: 1397 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/12/2006
Subject: Re: Kadee magnets
Group: vintageHO Message: 1398 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 4/13/2006
Subject: Re: Kadee magnets
Group: vintageHO Message: 1399 From: takefive247 Date: 4/13/2006
Subject: Re: Kadee magnets
Group: vintageHO Message: 1400 From: Glenn Date: 4/13/2006
Subject: Re: Kadee magnets
Group: vintageHO Message: 1401 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/14/2006
Subject: Re: Kadee magnets
Group: vintageHO Message: 1402 From: frank Date: 4/16/2006
Subject: Toptrain here! New photo album. # Mantua goats get a overhaul.
Group: vintageHO Message: 1403 From: Glenn Date: 4/16/2006
Subject: Re: Toptrain here! New photo album. # Mantua goats get a overhaul.
Group: vintageHO Message: 1405 From: frank Date: 4/16/2006
Subject: Re: Toptrain here! New photo album. # Mantua goats get a overhaul.
Group: vintageHO Message: 1406 From: Bill C. Date: 4/16/2006
Subject: Re: Toptrain here! New photo album. # Mantua goats get a overhaul.
Group: vintageHO Message: 1407 From: frank Date: 4/17/2006
Subject: Re: Toptrain here! New photo album. # Mantua goats get a overhaul.
Group: vintageHO Message: 1408 From: Glenn Date: 4/17/2006
Subject: Re: Toptrain here! New photo album. # Mantua goats get a overhaul.
Group: vintageHO Message: 1409 From: frank Date: 4/18/2006
Subject: Re: Toptrain here! New photo album. # Mantua goats get a overhaul.
Group: vintageHO Message: 1410 From: Glenn Date: 4/18/2006
Subject: Re: Toptrain here! New photo album. # Mantua goats get a overhaul.
Group: vintageHO Message: 1411 From: Larry Date: 4/19/2006
Subject: Need Help Identifying This Engine
Group: vintageHO Message: 1412 From: Gerry D Date: 4/19/2006
Subject: Re: Need Help Identifying This Engine
Group: vintageHO Message: 1413 From: frank Date: 4/20/2006
Subject: Re: Need Help Identifying This Engine
Group: vintageHO Message: 1414 From: Ray Hobin Date: 4/20/2006
Subject: Re: Need Help Identifying This Engine
Group: vintageHO Message: 1415 From: Mark Date: 4/20/2006
Subject: Re: Need Help Identifying This Engine
Group: vintageHO Message: 1416 From: frank Date: 4/20/2006
Subject: Re: Need Help Identifying This Engine
Group: vintageHO Message: 1417 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 4/20/2006
Subject: Fwd: Atlas April '06 Reservations for the HO Scale Signal System
Group: vintageHO Message: 1418 From: John Barlow Date: 4/21/2006
Subject: Re: Fwd: Atlas April '06 Reservations for the HO Scale Signal System
Group: vintageHO Message: 1419 From: Ray Hobin Date: 4/21/2006
Subject: Re: Need Help Identifying This Engine
Group: vintageHO Message: 1420 From: Larry Date: 4/21/2006
Subject: Re: Need Help Identifying This Engine
Group: vintageHO Message: 1421 From: Mark Date: 4/21/2006
Subject: Re: Need Help Identifying This Engine
Group: vintageHO Message: 1422 From: Glenn Date: 4/21/2006
Subject: Re: Need Help Identifying This Engine
Group: vintageHO Message: 1423 From: Jack Priller Date: 4/23/2006
Subject: Passenger car help
Group: vintageHO Message: 1424 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 4/23/2006
Subject: Re: Passenger car help
Group: vintageHO Message: 1425 From: frank Date: 4/23/2006
Subject: Three Mantua old Goats have been completed.
Group: vintageHO Message: 1426 From: Glenn Date: 4/23/2006
Subject: Re: Passenger car help
Group: vintageHO Message: 1427 From: Jack Priller Date: 4/24/2006
Subject: Re: Passenger car help
Group: vintageHO Message: 1428 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 4/24/2006
Subject: Re: Passenger car help
Group: vintageHO Message: 1429 From: Jack Priller Date: 4/24/2006
Subject: Re: Passenger car help
Group: vintageHO Message: 1430 From: Glenn Date: 4/25/2006
Subject: Re: Passenger car help
Group: vintageHO Message: 1433 From: Garry Spear Date: 4/26/2006
Subject: Items for Sale
Group: vintageHO Message: 1434 From: Gerry D Date: 4/26/2006
Subject: Re: playing with trains, CSX style
Group: vintageHO Message: 1435 From: Glenn Date: 4/26/2006
Subject: Re: update on why CSX SuXS
Group: vintageHO Message: 1436 From: Rick Jones Date: 4/26/2006
Subject: Re: update on why CSX SuXS
Group: vintageHO Message: 1437 From: Dave Slater Date: 4/26/2006
Subject: Re: update on why CSX SuXS
Group: vintageHO Message: 1438 From: Imp Ster Date: 4/28/2006
Subject: update on the CSX toy tracks
Group: vintageHO Message: 1439 From: takefive247 Date: 4/28/2006
Subject: Re: update on the CSX toy tracks
Group: vintageHO Message: 1440 From: kilbeggan68 Date: 4/29/2006
Subject: Only my opinon
Group: vintageHO Message: 1441 From: James B Date: 4/29/2006
Subject: Question on a Vintage Diecast Steam Tank Loco Shell
Group: vintageHO Message: 1442 From: John Barlow Date: 4/29/2006
Subject: Re: Question on a Vintage Diecast Steam Tank Loco Shell
Group: vintageHO Message: 1443 From: Garry Spear Date: 4/29/2006
Subject: Re: Question on a Vintage Diecast Steam Tank Loco Shell
Group: vintageHO Message: 1444 From: Phil VanderHeyden Date: 4/30/2006
Subject: Repower for Athearn
Group: vintageHO Message: 1445 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/30/2006
Subject: Re: Only my opinon
Group: vintageHO Message: 1446 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/30/2006
Subject: Re: Question on a Vintage Diecast Steam Tank Loco Shell
Group: vintageHO Message: 1447 From: Ray Hobin Date: 4/30/2006
Subject: Question on a Vintage Diecast Steam Tank Loco Shell
Group: vintageHO Message: 1448 From: kilbeggan68 Date: 4/30/2006
Subject: Repower for Athern
Group: vintageHO Message: 1449 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 4/30/2006
Subject: Re: Only my opinon
Group: vintageHO Message: 1450 From: Jack Priller Date: 4/30/2006
Subject: Re: Only my opinon
Group: vintageHO Message: 1451 From: Garry Spear Date: 4/30/2006
Subject: Re: Question on a Vintage Diecast Steam Tank Loco Shell
Group: vintageHO Message: 1452 From: Imp Ster Date: 4/30/2006
Subject: an onion from da imp ( & webcam proceedure)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1453 From: Imp Ster Date: 4/30/2006
Subject: Re: update on the webcam tech
Group: vintageHO Message: 1454 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 4/30/2006
Subject: Re: Question on a Vintage Diecast Steam Tank Loco Shell
Group: vintageHO Message: 1455 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 4/30/2006
Subject: Re: Question on a Vintage Diecast Steam Tank Loco Shell
Group: vintageHO Message: 1456 From: AL Date: 4/30/2006
Subject: Re: Digest Number 325
Group: vintageHO Message: 1457 From: James Bartelt Date: 4/30/2006
Subject: Re: Question on a Vintage Diecast Steam Tank Loco Shell
Group: vintageHO Message: 1458 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 4/30/2006
Subject: Re: Question on a Vintage Diecast Steam Tank Loco Shell
Group: vintageHO Message: 1459 From: Glenn Date: 4/30/2006
Subject: Re: Repower for Athearn
Group: vintageHO Message: 1460 From: Robert K Nielsen Date: 4/30/2006
Subject: Re: Repower for Athearn
Group: vintageHO Message: 1461 From: Glenn Date: 4/30/2006
Subject: Re: Repower for Athearn
Group: vintageHO Message: 1462 From: Phil VanderHeyden Date: 4/30/2006
Subject: Re: Repower for Athearn
Group: vintageHO Message: 1463 From: Glenn Date: 4/30/2006
Subject: Re: Repower for Athearn
Group: vintageHO Message: 1464 From: Glenn Date: 4/30/2006
Subject: Re: Repower for Athearn
Group: vintageHO Message: 1465 From: Imp Ster Date: 5/1/2006
Subject: additional webcam hint - no need to add contact
Group: vintageHO Message: 1466 From: Randy Date: 5/2/2006
Subject: Re: Repower for Athearn
Group: vintageHO Message: 1467 From: Jack Priller Date: 5/3/2006
Subject: Re: Passenger car help Thank you
Group: vintageHO Message: 1468 From: Glenn Date: 5/3/2006
Subject: Re: Passenger car help Thank you
Group: vintageHO Message: 1469 From: jack_catcher12 Date: 5/4/2006
Subject: Hello all a new member here. :)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1470 From: Jack Priller Date: 5/5/2006
Subject: New Photo and 2 ?'s
Group: vintageHO Message: 1471 From: Don Dellmann Date: 5/6/2006
Subject: Re: Hello all a new member here. :)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1472 From: Phil VanderHeyden Date: 5/8/2006
Subject: Re: Repower for Athearn - pictures of motor with bushings
Group: vintageHO Message: 1473 From: Glenn Date: 5/9/2006
Subject: Re: Passenger car help Thank you
Group: vintageHO Message: 1474 From: Glenn Date: 5/9/2006
Subject: Re: Repower for Athearn - pictures of motor with bushings
Group: vintageHO Message: 1475 From: Jack Priller Date: 5/9/2006
Subject: Re: Passenger car help Thank you
Group: vintageHO Message: 1476 From: Phil VanderHeyden Date: 5/9/2006
Subject: Re: Repower for Athearn - pictures of motor with bushings
Group: vintageHO Message: 1477 From: Dave Slater Date: 5/9/2006
Subject: Re: Repower for Athearn - pictures of motor with bushings
Group: vintageHO Message: 1478 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 5/9/2006
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO Message: 1479 From: Glenn Date: 5/9/2006
Subject: Re: Repower for Athearn - pictures of motor with bushings
Group: vintageHO Message: 1480 From: Ray Hobin Date: 5/10/2006
Subject: 7 pole motors
Group: vintageHO Message: 1481 From: tinghey chou Date: 5/10/2006
Subject: 回覆: Re: [vintageHO] Repower for Athearn - pictures of motor w
Group: vintageHO Message: 1482 From: Jack Priller Date: 5/10/2006
Subject: Available old stuff
Group: vintageHO Message: 1483 From: Dave Slater Date: 5/10/2006
Subject: Re: Repower for Athearn - pictures of motor with bushings
Group: vintageHO Message: 1484 From: Dave Slater Date: 5/10/2006
Subject: Re: Repower for Athearn - pictures of motor with bushings
Group: vintageHO Message: 1485 From: Glenn Date: 5/10/2006
Subject: Re: Repower for Athearn - pictures of motor with bushings
Group: vintageHO Message: 1486 From: Dave Slater Date: 5/10/2006
Subject: Re: Repower for Athearn - pictures of motor with bushings
Group: vintageHO Message: 1487 From: Phil VanderHeyden Date: 5/10/2006
Subject: Re: 7 pole motors
Group: vintageHO Message: 1488 From: Glenn Date: 5/11/2006
Subject: Re: 7 pole motors
Group: vintageHO Message: 1489 From: Bill Daley Date: 5/11/2006
Subject: Re: 7 pole motors
Group: vintageHO Message: 1490 From: Glenn Date: 5/11/2006
Subject: Re: 7 pole motors
Group: vintageHO Message: 1491 From: Phil VanderHeyden Date: 5/11/2006
Subject: Re: 7 pole motors
Group: vintageHO Message: 1492 From: Mike Date: 5/12/2006
Subject: It's Dellview time
Group: vintageHO Message: 1493 From: Roger Aultman Date: 5/12/2006
Subject: Lightning strikes twice
Group: vintageHO Message: 1494 From: Gerry D Date: 5/12/2006
Subject: Re: It's Dellview time
Group: vintageHO Message: 1495 From: Glenn Date: 5/12/2006
Subject: Re: 7 pole motors
Group: vintageHO Message: 1496 From: Jack Priller Date: 5/14/2006
Subject: Re: Available old stuff
Group: vintageHO Message: 1497 From: Garry Spear Date: 5/15/2006
Subject: FA: Vintage Mantua Catalogs, Laconia Kits, & more
Group: vintageHO Message: 1498 From: Gerry Date: 5/16/2006
Subject: Unknown hustler locomotive...
Group: vintageHO Message: 1499 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 5/16/2006
Subject: Re: Unknown hustler locomotive...
Group: vintageHO Message: 1500 From: Gerry Date: 5/16/2006
Subject: Re: Unknown hustler locomotive...
Group: vintageHO Message: 1501 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 5/16/2006
Subject: Re: Unknown hustler locomotive...
Group: vintageHO Message: 1502 From: oljoe@landolls.com Date: 5/17/2006
Subject: Re: Unknown hustler locomotive...
Group: vintageHO Message: 1503 From: Jim Snyder Date: 5/23/2006
Subject: Re: Qustion, Re.: Varney 2-8-4
Group: vintageHO Message: 1504 From: Glenn Date: 5/23/2006
Subject: Re: Qustion, Re.: Varney 2-8-4
Group: vintageHO Message: 1505 From: Jack Priller Date: 5/26/2006
Subject: Memorial Day
Group: vintageHO Message: 1506 From: Don Dellmann Date: 5/26/2006
Subject: Re: Memorial Day
Group: vintageHO Message: 1507 From: John Barlow Date: 5/27/2006
Subject: Re: Memorial Day
Group: vintageHO Message: 1508 From: Jack Priller Date: 5/27/2006
Subject: Re: Memorial Day
Group: vintageHO Message: 1509 From: Dave Slater Date: 5/27/2006
Subject: Re: Memorial Day
Group: vintageHO Message: 1510 From: Garry Spear Date: 5/28/2006
Subject: For Sale HO & More - Help Wanted on Takiado Set
Group: vintageHO Message: 1511 From: Gerry D Date: 5/29/2006
Subject: Re: For Sale HO & More - Help Wanted on Takiado Set
Group: vintageHO Message: 1512 From: Garry Spear Date: 6/1/2006
Subject: FS: Laconia Billboard Reefer Kits
Group: vintageHO Message: 1513 From: fisty_n_joe Date: 6/4/2006
Subject: Old Trains, Seeing the G-D
Group: vintageHO Message: 1514 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 6/4/2006
Subject: Re: Old Trains, Seeing the G-D
Group: vintageHO Message: 1515 From: Glenn Date: 6/4/2006
Subject: Re: Old Trains, Seeing the G-D
Group: vintageHO Message: 1516 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 6/10/2006
Subject: Fwd: WS Newsletter (Vol. 2 No. 20)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1517 From: Don Dellmann Date: 6/11/2006
Subject: Re: [MRPics] Fwd: WS Newsletter (Vol. 2 No. 20)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1518 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 6/11/2006
Subject: Re: [MRPics] Fwd: WS Newsletter (Vol. 2 No. 20)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1519 From: Robert K Nielsen Date: 6/11/2006
Subject: Re: Fwd: WS Newsletter (Vol. 2 No. 20)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1520 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 6/13/2006
Subject: Yahoo users, go here and check it out, not kidding - ! ! !
Group: vintageHO Message: 1521 From: Don Dellmann Date: 6/18/2006
Subject: Fw: inquiry
Group: vintageHO Message: 1522 From: martin_lumber Date: 6/27/2006
Subject: Trix Action Series ... Anybody know about them?
Group: vintageHO Message: 1523 From: Graeme Date: 6/28/2006
Subject: Re: Trix Action Series ... Anybody know about them?
Group: vintageHO Message: 1524 From: Philip Martin Date: 7/3/2006
Subject: Re: Trix Action Series ... Anybody know about them?
Group: vintageHO Message: 1525 From: kilbeggan68 Date: 7/4/2006
Subject: 4-4-0 American
Group: vintageHO Message: 1526 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 7/4/2006
Subject: Re: 4-4-0 American
Group: vintageHO Message: 1527 From: Don Dellmann Date: 7/4/2006
Subject: Re: 4-4-0 American
Group: vintageHO Message: 1528 From: erieberk Date: 7/4/2006
Subject: Re: 4-4-0 American
Group: vintageHO Message: 1529 From: erieberk Date: 7/4/2006
Subject: Re: 4-4-0 American
Group: vintageHO Message: 1530 From: Glenn Date: 7/4/2006
Subject: Re: 4-4-0 American
Group: vintageHO Message: 1531 From: Jack Priller Date: 7/5/2006
Subject: Speaking of Civil War era
Group: vintageHO Message: 1532 From: Joe Melhorn Date: 7/6/2006
Subject: Re: Speaking of Civil War era
Group: vintageHO Message: 1533 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 7/8/2006
Subject: Fwd: WS Newsletter (Vol. 2 No. 24)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1534 From: frank Date: 7/9/2006
Subject: Re: 4-4-0 American
Group: vintageHO Message: 1535 From: erieberk Date: 7/10/2006
Subject: Re: 4-4-0 American
Group: vintageHO Message: 1536 From: erieberk Date: 7/10/2006
Subject: Re: Speaking of Civil War era
Group: vintageHO Message: 1537 From: kilbeggan68 Date: 7/11/2006
Subject: 4-4-0 AMERICAN
Group: vintageHO Message: 1538 From: Randy Date: 7/14/2006
Subject: Old Varney Hopper
Group: vintageHO Message: 1539 From: Randy Date: 7/14/2006
Subject: Old Varney Hopper
Group: vintageHO Message: 1540 From: Don Dellmann Date: 7/14/2006
Subject: Re: Old Varney Hopper
Group: vintageHO Message: 1541 From: frank Date: 7/15/2006
Subject: New album added Toptrain
Group: vintageHO Message: 1542 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 7/15/2006
Subject: Re: New album added Toptrain
Group: vintageHO Message: 1543 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 7/15/2006
Subject: Re: New album added Toptrain
Group: vintageHO Message: 1544 From: frank Date: 7/15/2006
Subject: Re: New album added Toptrain
Group: vintageHO Message: 1545 From: frank Date: 7/15/2006
Subject: More Photos Added to toptrain
Group: vintageHO Message: 1546 From: Don Dellmann Date: 7/15/2006
Subject: Latest aquisition
Group: vintageHO Message: 1547 From: Ray Hobin Date: 7/15/2006
Subject: Re: New album added Toptrain
Group: vintageHO Message: 1548 From: Roger Aultman Date: 7/15/2006
Subject: Re: Latest aquisition
Group: vintageHO Message: 1549 From: Don Dellmann Date: 7/15/2006
Subject: Re: Latest aquisition
Group: vintageHO Message: 1550 From: Roger Aultman Date: 7/15/2006
Subject: Re: Latest aquisition
Group: vintageHO Message: 1551 From: Randy Date: 7/15/2006
Subject: Re: Old Varney Hopper
Group: vintageHO Message: 1552 From: Imp Ster Date: 8/3/2006
Subject: back to doing what i do best...
Group: vintageHO Message: 1553 From: John Soderquist Date: 8/3/2006
Subject: Rail Chief
Group: vintageHO Message: 1554 From: Jack Priller Date: 8/3/2006
Subject: Parts anyone?
Group: vintageHO Message: 1555 From: Lennard Stewart Date: 8/11/2006
Subject: Hi
Group: vintageHO Message: 1556 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 8/11/2006
Subject: Re: Hi
Group: vintageHO Message: 1557 From: jerrygart5 Date: 8/11/2006
Subject: Re: Hi
Group: vintageHO Message: 1558 From: tinplatetony Date: 8/14/2006
Subject: Advice on 1950's / 60's American HO kits wanted (in the UK)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1559 From: frank Date: 8/19/2006
Subject: Toptrain here! New Photo album
Group: vintageHO Message: 1560 From: epoxy_tech Date: 8/20/2006
Subject: B&LE Hopper
Group: vintageHO Message: 1561 From: John Soderquist Date: 8/21/2006
Subject: Re: B&LE Hopper
Group: vintageHO Message: 1562 From: madchemep2@aol.com Date: 8/22/2006
Subject: Re: B&LE Hopper
Group: vintageHO Message: 1563 From: vintage_thomas_trains Date: 8/22/2006
Subject: Thomas Industries tank cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 1564 From: Garry Spear Date: 8/22/2006
Subject: Re: Thomas Industries tank cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 1565 From: Garry Spear Date: 8/23/2006
Subject: FA: Vintage Kar-Line and A-C Kits on eBay
Group: vintageHO Message: 1566 From: vintage_thomas_trains Date: 8/23/2006
Subject: Re: Thomas Industries tank cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 1567 From: Garry Spear Date: 8/23/2006
Subject: Re: Thomas Industries tank cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 1568 From: vintage_thomas_trains Date: 8/24/2006
Subject: Re: Thomas Industries tank cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 1569 From: Don Dellmann Date: 8/26/2006
Subject: Latest finds
Group: vintageHO Message: 1570 From: Roger Aultman Date: 8/26/2006
Subject: Re: Latest finds
Group: vintageHO Message: 1571 From: Don Dellmann Date: 8/27/2006
Subject: Test massage, helping a member
Group: vintageHO Message: 1572 From: Roger Aultman Date: 8/28/2006
Subject: Hoibbyline Hopper
Group: vintageHO Message: 1573 From: bgramer Date: 8/28/2006
Subject: Re: Test massage, helping a member
Group: vintageHO Message: 1574 From: Garry Spear Date: 9/1/2006
Subject: Thomas Tank Cars - Instructions
Group: vintageHO Message: 1575 From: vintage_thomas_trains Date: 9/8/2006
Subject: Re: Thomas Industries tank cars
Group: vintageHO Message: 1576 From: Jim Snyder Date: 9/16/2006
Subject: Info: Model Die Casting 'Harriman' 2-8-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 1577 From: Glenn Date: 9/16/2006
Subject: Re: Info: Model Die Casting 'Harriman' 2-8-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 1578 From: Jack Priller Date: 9/17/2006
Subject: Hi-F RDC
Group: vintageHO Message: 1579 From: Bob B Date: 9/17/2006
Subject: Re: Hi-F RDC
Group: vintageHO Message: 1580 From: Glenn Date: 9/17/2006
Subject: find
Group: vintageHO Message: 1581 From: Glenn Date: 9/17/2006
Subject: looking 4
Group: vintageHO Message: 1582 From: Mike Bauers Date: 9/18/2006
Subject: Re: looking 4
Group: vintageHO Message: 1583 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 9/18/2006
Subject: Re: looking 4
Group: vintageHO Message: 1584 From: Glenn Date: 9/18/2006
Subject: Re: looking 4
Group: vintageHO Message: 1585 From: Glenn Date: 9/18/2006
Subject: Re: looking 4
Group: vintageHO Message: 1586 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 9/18/2006
Subject: Re: looking 4
Group: vintageHO Message: 1587 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 9/18/2006
Subject: Re: looking 4
Group: vintageHO Message: 1588 From: Glenn Date: 9/18/2006
Subject: Re: looking 4
Group: vintageHO Message: 1589 From: Mike Bauers Date: 9/19/2006
Subject: Re: looking 4
Group: vintageHO Message: 1590 From: Mike Bauers Date: 9/19/2006
Subject: Re: looking 4
Group: vintageHO Message: 1591 From: Stephen Lengal Date: 9/19/2006
Subject: Athearn Caboose Find...
Group: vintageHO Message: 1592 From: Glenn Date: 9/19/2006
Subject: Re: looking 4
Group: vintageHO Message: 1593 From: Glenn Date: 9/19/2006
Subject: Re: looking 4
Group: vintageHO Message: 1594 From: Mike Bauers Date: 9/20/2006
Subject: Re: looking 4
Group: vintageHO Message: 1595 From: Glenn Date: 9/20/2006
Subject: Re: looking 4
Group: vintageHO Message: 1596 From: Mike Bauers Date: 9/20/2006
Subject: Re: looking 4
Group: vintageHO Message: 1597 From: robyntw247 Date: 9/21/2006
Subject: Question about an old HO blinking traffic stop signal.
Group: vintageHO Message: 1598 From: Donald Dellmann Date: 9/21/2006
Subject: Re: Question about an old HO blinking traffic stop signal.
Group: vintageHO Message: 1599 From: Robyn W. Date: 9/21/2006
Subject: Re: Question about an old HO blinking traffic stop signal.
Group: vintageHO Message: 1600 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 9/21/2006
Subject: Re: Question about an old HO blinking traffic stop signal.
Group: vintageHO Message: 1601 From: michael rapp, sr Date: 9/22/2006
Subject: Re: Question about an old HO blinking traffic stop signal.
Group: vintageHO Message: 1602 From: erieberk Date: 9/22/2006
Subject: Re: Question about an old HO blinking traffic stop signal.
Group: vintageHO Message: 1603 From: robyntw247 Date: 9/22/2006
Subject: Another question, in regards to Tyco.
Group: vintageHO Message: 1604 From: John Barlow Date: 9/22/2006
Subject: Re: Another question, in regards to Tyco.
Group: vintageHO Message: 1605 From: Lennard Stewart Date: 9/22/2006
Subject: Re: Another question, in regards to Tyco.
Group: vintageHO Message: 1606 From: Robyn W. Date: 9/22/2006
Subject: Re: Another question, in regards to Tyco.
Group: vintageHO Message: 1607 From: erieberk Date: 9/23/2006
Subject: Re: Another question, in regards to Tyco.
Group: vintageHO Message: 1608 From: Lennard Stewart Date: 9/23/2006
Subject: Re: Another question, in regards to Tyco.
Group: vintageHO Message: 1609 From: Jack Priller Date: 9/25/2006
Subject: Marx HO flat
Group: vintageHO Message: 1610 From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com Date: 9/25/2006
Subject: Re: Marx HO flat
Group: vintageHO Message: 1611 From: Roger Aultman Date: 9/25/2006
Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Marx HO flat
Group: vintageHO Message: 1612 From: Dave Slater Date: 9/25/2006
Subject: I'm back...
Group: vintageHO Message: 1613 From: Glenn Date: 9/25/2006
Subject: Re: Marx HO flat
Group: vintageHO Message: 1614 From: Larry Stevenson Date: 9/26/2006
Subject: Re: Marx HO flat
Group: vintageHO Message: 1615 From: Jack Priller Date: 9/26/2006
Subject: Re: Marx HO flat
Group: vintageHO Message: 1616 From: vintage_thomas_trains Date: 10/10/2006
Subject: Brake wheel staff
Group: vintageHO Message: 1617 From: Glenn Date: 10/10/2006
Subject: Re: Brake wheel staff
Group: vintageHO Message: 1618 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 10/11/2006
Subject: Tru-Scale track assortment
Group: vintageHO Message: 1619 From: vintage_thomas_trains Date: 10/11/2006
Subject: Re: Brake wheel staff
Group: vintageHO Message: 1620 From: Glenn Date: 10/12/2006
Subject: Re: Brake wheel staff
Group: vintageHO Message: 1621 From: Imp Ster Date: 10/12/2006
Subject: re, old Tru-Scale stuff
Group: vintageHO Message: 1622 From: Bob B Date: 10/14/2006
Subject: Here's a real vintage item!
Group: vintageHO Message: 1623 From: Dave Slater Date: 10/14/2006
Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item!
Group: vintageHO Message: 1624 From: John Barlow Date: 10/14/2006
Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item!
Group: vintageHO Message: 1625 From: Glenn Date: 10/14/2006
Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item!
Group: vintageHO Message: 1626 From: Glenn Date: 10/14/2006
Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item!
Group: vintageHO Message: 1627 From: Bob B Date: 10/14/2006
Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item!
Group: vintageHO Message: 1628 From: Lennard Stewart Date: 10/14/2006
Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item!
Group: vintageHO Message: 1629 From: Wobbly913 Date: 10/14/2006
Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item!
Group: vintageHO Message: 1630 From: John Barlow Date: 10/15/2006
Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item!
Group: vintageHO Message: 1631 From: Imp Ster Date: 10/15/2006
Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item!
Group: vintageHO Message: 1632 From: Imp Ster Date: 10/15/2006
Subject: RANT: a John English Mikado, back from the dead
Group: vintageHO Message: 1633 From: Bob B Date: 10/15/2006
Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item!
Group: vintageHO Message: 1634 From: Dale Smith Date: 10/15/2006
Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item!
Group: vintageHO Message: 1635 From: Dave Slater Date: 10/15/2006
Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item!
Group: vintageHO Message: 1636 From: Ray Hobin Date: 10/15/2006
Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item!
Group: vintageHO Message: 1637 From: Gerry D Date: 10/15/2006
Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item!
Group: vintageHO Message: 1638 From: Robert K Nielsen Date: 10/15/2006
Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item!
Group: vintageHO Message: 1639 From: Richard Okrosy Date: 10/15/2006
Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item!
Group: vintageHO Message: 1640 From: Richard Okrosy Date: 10/15/2006
Subject: Re: Brake wheel staff
Group: vintageHO Message: 1641 From: Donald Dellmann Date: 10/15/2006
Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item!
Group: vintageHO Message: 1642 From: John Barlow Date: 10/15/2006
Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item! A Picture of a Box?
Group: vintageHO Message: 1643 From: Glenn Date: 10/15/2006
Subject: Re: Brake wheel staff
Group: vintageHO Message: 1644 From: Wobbly913 Date: 10/15/2006
Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item! A Picture of a Box?
Group: vintageHO Message: 1645 From: Dave Slater Date: 10/15/2006
Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item! A Picture of a Box?
Group: vintageHO Message: 1646 From: Robert K Nielsen Date: 10/15/2006
Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item! A Picture of a Box?
Group: vintageHO Message: 1647 From: John Barlow Date: 10/15/2006
Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item! A Picture of a Box?
Group: vintageHO Message: 1648 From: michael rapp, sr Date: 10/15/2006
Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item! A Picture of a Box?
Group: vintageHO Message: 1649 From: Wobbly913 Date: 10/16/2006
Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item! A Picture of a Box?
Group: vintageHO Message: 1650 From: Richard Okrosy Date: 10/16/2006
Subject: Re: Brake wheel staff
Group: vintageHO Message: 1651 From: Imp Ster Date: 10/16/2006
Subject: re, real vintage item! A Picture of an idiot's Blue Box!!
Group: vintageHO Message: 1652 From: Glenn Date: 10/16/2006
Subject: Re: Brake wheel staff
Group: vintageHO Message: 1653 From: Glenn Date: 10/16/2006
Subject: Re: Brake wheel staff
Group: vintageHO Message: 1654 From: Gerry D Date: 10/16/2006
Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item! A Picture of a Box?
Group: vintageHO Message: 1655 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 10/16/2006
Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item! A Picture of a Box?
Group: vintageHO Message: 1656 From: Imp Ster Date: 10/17/2006
Subject: RANT da 2nd: a Bowser K-11, back from the dead
Group: vintageHO Message: 1657 From: Richard Okrosy Date: 10/17/2006
Subject: Re: Brake wheel staff
Group: vintageHO Message: 1658 From: Glenn Date: 10/18/2006
Subject: Re: Brake wheel staff
Group: vintageHO Message: 1659 From: Roger Aultman Date: 10/27/2006
Subject: Hobbyline 0-4-0
Group: vintageHO Message: 1660 From: Imp Ster Date: 10/28/2006
Subject: Re: Hobbyline 0-4-0 page (JE Mike)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1661 From: Roger Aultman Date: 10/28/2006
Subject: Re: Hobbyline 0-4-0 page (JE Mike)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1662 From: Imp Ster Date: 10/29/2006
Subject: Re: Hobbyline 0-4-0 page (JE Mike)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1663 From: Roger Aultman Date: 10/29/2006
Subject: Re: Hobbyline 0-4-0 page (JE Mike)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1664 From: Imp Ster Date: 11/9/2006
Subject: layout webcam coming soon
Group: vintageHO Message: 1665 From: Larry Date: 11/13/2006
Subject: Diagrams and Information Added
Group: vintageHO Message: 1666 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 11/13/2006
Subject: Re: Diagrams and Information Added
Group: vintageHO Message: 1667 From: Larry Date: 11/13/2006
Subject: Re: Diagrams and Information Added
Group: vintageHO Message: 1668 From: engineer18762 Date: 11/14/2006
Subject: Disney Open Air Coaches
Group: vintageHO Message: 1669 From: John Barlow Date: 11/14/2006
Subject: Re: Disney Open Air Coaches
Group: vintageHO Message: 1670 From: tomvanhoy Date: 11/14/2006
Subject: Box cab info help?
Group: vintageHO Message: 1671 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/15/2006
Subject: Re: Box cab info help?
Group: vintageHO Message: 1672 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 11/15/2006
Subject: Re: Box cab info help?
Group: vintageHO Message: 1673 From: Bill Date: 11/15/2006
Subject: MDC Parts
Group: vintageHO Message: 1674 From: Glenn Date: 11/15/2006
Subject: Re: Box cab info help?
Group: vintageHO Message: 1675 From: tomvanhoy Date: 11/15/2006
Subject: boxcab help
Group: vintageHO Message: 1676 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 11/16/2006
Subject: Re: Box cab info help?
Group: vintageHO Message: 1677 From: rsmedude Date: 11/16/2006
Subject: Home Page Picture
Group: vintageHO Message: 1678 From: rsmedude Date: 11/16/2006
Subject: Looking for a Boxcar
Group: vintageHO Message: 1679 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/16/2006
Subject: Re: Home Page Picture
Group: vintageHO Message: 1680 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/16/2006
Subject: Re: Looking for a Boxcar
Group: vintageHO Message: 1681 From: John Barlow Date: 11/16/2006
Subject: Re: Home Page Picture...Going into That Good Night
Group: vintageHO Message: 1682 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 11/16/2006
Subject: Re: Home Page Picture...Going into That Good Night
Group: vintageHO Message: 1683 From: Dan Bush Date: 11/16/2006
Subject: Re: Home Page Picture
Group: vintageHO Message: 1684 From: rsmedude Date: 11/16/2006
Subject: Re: Home Page Picture...Going into That Good Night
Group: vintageHO Message: 1685 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 11/16/2006
Subject: trains
Group: vintageHO Message: 1686 From: rsmedude Date: 11/16/2006
Subject: Re: Looking for a Boxcar
Group: vintageHO Message: 1687 From: rsmedude Date: 11/16/2006
Subject: Re: Looking for a Boxcar
Group: vintageHO Message: 1688 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 11/16/2006
Subject: Re: Home Page Picture...Going into That Good Night
Group: vintageHO Message: 1689 From: John Barlow Date: 11/16/2006
Subject: Re: trains
Group: vintageHO Message: 1690 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/16/2006
Subject: Re: Looking for a Boxcar
Group: vintageHO Message: 1691 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/16/2006
Subject: Re: trains
Group: vintageHO Message: 1692 From: Mike Bauers Date: 11/16/2006
Subject: Re: Box cab info help?
Group: vintageHO Message: 1693 From: Glenn Date: 11/16/2006
Subject: Re: Box cab info help?
Group: vintageHO Message: 1694 From: Glenn Date: 11/16/2006
Subject: Re: Box cab info help?
Group: vintageHO Message: 1695 From: Glenn Date: 11/16/2006
Subject: Re: Looking for a Boxcar
Group: vintageHO Message: 1696 From: Larry Stevenson Date: 11/16/2006
Subject: Re: trains
Group: vintageHO Message: 1697 From: Glenn Date: 11/16/2006
Subject: Re: Home Page Picture...Going into That Good Night
Group: vintageHO Message: 1698 From: John Barlow Date: 11/16/2006
Subject: Re: Home Page Picture...Going into That Good Night
Group: vintageHO Message: 1699 From: Dave Slater Date: 11/17/2006
Subject: Re: Looking for a Boxcar
Group: vintageHO Message: 1700 From: Glenn Date: 11/17/2006
Subject: Re: Home Page Picture...Going into That Good Night
Group: vintageHO Message: 1701 From: Imp Ster Date: 11/17/2006
Subject: re, the Home Page pic
Group: vintageHO Message: 1702 From: Imp Ster Date: 11/17/2006
Subject: new image in Vintage-HO "Files"
Group: vintageHO Message: 1703 From: Mike Bauers Date: 11/18/2006
Subject: Re: Looking for a Boxcar
Group: vintageHO Message: 1704 From: Neal Rammacher Date: 11/18/2006
Subject: Lionel Alco
Group: vintageHO Message: 1705 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/18/2006
Subject: Re: Lionel Alco
Group: vintageHO Message: 1706 From: John Barlow Date: 11/18/2006
Subject: Re: Lionel Alco
Group: vintageHO Message: 1707 From: John Barlow Date: 11/18/2006
Subject: Re: Lionel Alco...Several Additional Thoughts.
Group: vintageHO Message: 1708 From: Neal Rammacher Date: 11/18/2006
Subject: Re: Lionel Alco...Several Additional Thoughts.
Group: vintageHO Message: 1709 From: Mike Bauers Date: 11/18/2006
Subject: Re: Lionel Alco
Group: vintageHO Message: 1710 From: John Barlow Date: 11/18/2006
Subject: Re: Lionel Alco...Several Additional Thoughts.
Group: vintageHO Message: 1711 From: John Barlow Date: 11/18/2006
Subject: Re: Lionel Alco...and Stuff That Goes from the "Git-Go."
Group: vintageHO Message: 1712 From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com Date: 11/19/2006
Subject: Re: Lionel Alco...and Stuff That Goes from the "Git-Go."
Group: vintageHO Message: 1713 From: tomvanhoy Date: 11/19/2006
Subject: box cab photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 1714 From: jerrygart5 Date: 11/19/2006
Subject: Re: box cab photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 1715 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/19/2006
Subject: Re: box cab photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 1716 From: Gerry D Date: 11/19/2006
Subject: Re: box cab photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 1717 From: tomvanhoy Date: 11/20/2006
Subject: box cab
Group: vintageHO Message: 1718 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/20/2006
Subject: latest addition
Group: vintageHO Message: 1719 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 11/21/2006
Subject: Fwd: Happy Thanksgiving
Group: vintageHO Message: 1720 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 11/21/2006
Subject: Fwd: Happy Thanksgiving
Group: vintageHO Message: 1721 From: Richard Moessner Date: 11/22/2006
Subject: Re: box cab photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 1722 From: tomvanhoy Date: 11/22/2006
Subject: Re: Box cab photo
Group: vintageHO Message: 1723 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/25/2006
Subject: I love eBay
Group: vintageHO Message: 1724 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 11/25/2006
Subject: Re: I love eBay
Group: vintageHO Message: 1725 From: Roger Aultman Date: 11/25/2006
Subject: Re: I love eBay
Group: vintageHO Message: 1726 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/26/2006
Subject: Re: I love eBay
Group: vintageHO Message: 1727 From: Jack Priller Date: 11/26/2006
Subject: Re: I love eBay
Group: vintageHO Message: 1728 From: Rick Jones Date: 11/26/2006
Subject: Re: I love eBay
Group: vintageHO Message: 1729 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 11/26/2006
Subject: Re: I love eBay
Group: vintageHO Message: 1730 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/26/2006
Subject: Re: I love eBay
Group: vintageHO Message: 1731 From: Glenn Date: 11/26/2006
Subject: Re: I love eBay
Group: vintageHO Message: 1732 From: Bob B Date: 11/27/2006
Subject: Re: I love eBay
Group: vintageHO Message: 1733 From: Garrett and Libby Rea Date: 11/27/2006
Subject: Re: I love eBay
Group: vintageHO Message: 1734 From: Jack Priller Date: 11/28/2006
Subject: Re: I love eBay
Group: vintageHO Message: 1735 From: John Hagen Date: 11/28/2006
Subject: Re: I love eBay
Group: vintageHO Message: 1736 From: Andrew Emmerson Date: 11/28/2006
Subject: Walthers 6412 Alco diesel and British H0
Group: vintageHO Message: 1737 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 11/28/2006
Subject: Re: Walthers 6412 Alco diesel and British H0
Group: vintageHO Message: 1738 From: Andrew Bell Date: 11/29/2006
Subject: Walthers HH660
Group: vintageHO Message: 1739 From: John Barlow Date: 11/29/2006
Subject: Re: Walthers HH660
Group: vintageHO Message: 1740 From: John Barlow Date: 11/30/2006
Subject: Re: Walthers HH660-Correction Noted
Group: vintageHO Message: 1741 From: Garrett and Libby Rea Date: 12/1/2006
Subject: Any help for the old DC60 motors?
Group: vintageHO Message: 1742 From: oljoeoh Date: 12/2/2006
Subject: Re: Any help for the old DC60 motors?
Group: vintageHO Message: 1743 From: Garrett W. Rea Date: 12/2/2006
Subject: Re: Any help for the old DC60 motors?
Group: vintageHO Message: 1744 From: kilbeggan68 Date: 12/2/2006
Subject: Re: MAGNETS?
Group: vintageHO Message: 1745 From: Dale Smith Date: 12/2/2006
Subject: Re: Any help for the old DC60 motors?
Group: vintageHO Message: 1746 From: Glenn Date: 12/2/2006
Subject: Re: Any help for the old DC60 motors?
Group: vintageHO Message: 1747 From: Glenn Date: 12/2/2006
Subject: Re: Any help for the old DC60 motors?
Group: vintageHO Message: 1748 From: Imp Ster Date: 12/5/2006
Subject: Any help for the old DC60 motors?
Group: vintageHO Message: 1749 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/9/2006
Subject: New aquisitions
Group: vintageHO Message: 1750 From: tomvanhoy Date: 12/9/2006
Subject: Old motor help
Group: vintageHO Message: 1751 From: erieberk Date: 12/9/2006
Subject: Re: New aquisitions
Group: vintageHO Message: 1752 From: Glenn Date: 12/9/2006
Subject: Re: New aquisitions
Group: vintageHO Message: 1753 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/9/2006
Subject: Re: New aquisitions
Group: vintageHO Message: 1754 From: erieberk Date: 12/9/2006
Subject: Re: New aquisitions
Group: vintageHO Message: 1755 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/10/2006
Subject: Re: New aquisitions
Group: vintageHO Message: 1756 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/12/2006
Subject: More goodies
Group: vintageHO Message: 1757 From: Glenn Date: 12/12/2006
Subject: Re: More goodies
Group: vintageHO Message: 1758 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/13/2006
Subject: Re: More goodies
Group: vintageHO Message: 1759 From: Roger Aultman Date: 12/13/2006
Subject: Re: More goodies
Group: vintageHO Message: 1760 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/13/2006
Subject: Re: More goodies
Group: vintageHO Message: 1761 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 12/15/2006
Subject: (no subject)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1762 From: Neal Rammacher Date: 12/16/2006
Subject: power packs
Group: vintageHO Message: 1763 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/16/2006
Subject: Re: power packs
Group: vintageHO Message: 1764 From: John Barlow Date: 12/16/2006
Subject: Re: power packs
Group: vintageHO Message: 1765 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/16/2006
Subject: More out of the last eBay box
Group: vintageHO Message: 1766 From: HERB FLAVELL Date: 12/16/2006
Subject: Old HO Photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 1767 From: Wobbly913 Date: 12/16/2006
Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 1768 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/16/2006
Subject: Re: power packs
Group: vintageHO Message: 1769 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/16/2006
Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 1770 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/16/2006
Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 1771 From: Glenn Date: 12/16/2006
Subject: Re: power packs
Group: vintageHO Message: 1772 From: Wobbly913 Date: 12/16/2006
Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 1773 From: Roger Aultman Date: 12/16/2006
Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 1774 From: Wobbly913 Date: 12/16/2006
Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 1775 From: Glenn Date: 12/16/2006
Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 1776 From: michael rapp, sr Date: 12/16/2006
Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 1777 From: John Barlow Date: 12/16/2006
Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 1778 From: John Barlow Date: 12/16/2006
Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 1779 From: michael rapp, sr Date: 12/17/2006
Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 1780 From: Wobbly913 Date: 12/17/2006
Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 1781 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/17/2006
Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 1782 From: John Barlow Date: 12/17/2006
Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 1783 From: oljoeoh Date: 12/17/2006
Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 1784 From: oljoeoh Date: 12/17/2006
Subject: Cary/Bowser boxcab conversion for Athearn Hustler
Group: vintageHO Message: 1785 From: Phillip VanderHeyden Date: 12/17/2006
Subject: Re: Cary/Bowser boxcab conversion for Athearn Hustler
Group: vintageHO Message: 1786 From: herb1013 Date: 12/17/2006
Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 1787 From: herb1013 Date: 12/17/2006
Subject: Athearn
Group: vintageHO Message: 1788 From: herb1013 Date: 12/17/2006
Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 1789 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/17/2006
Subject: Test, please disregard
Group: vintageHO Message: 1790 From: herb1013 Date: 12/17/2006
Subject: Re: Test, please disregard
Group: vintageHO Message: 1791 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 12/17/2006
Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 1792 From: herb1013 Date: 12/17/2006
Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 1793 From: Mike Bauers Date: 12/17/2006
Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 1794 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/17/2006
Subject: Re: Hi-Fi (was Test, please disregard)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1795 From: Mike Bauers Date: 12/17/2006
Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 1796 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/17/2006
Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 1797 From: Roger Aultman Date: 12/17/2006
Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 1798 From: ourbaja Date: 12/17/2006
Subject: Re: More goodies
Group: vintageHO Message: 1799 From: Glenn Date: 12/17/2006
Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 1800 From: Glenn Date: 12/17/2006
Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 1801 From: Glenn Date: 12/17/2006
Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 1802 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 12/17/2006
Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 1803 From: Wobbly913 Date: 12/17/2006
Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 1804 From: Glenn Date: 12/17/2006
Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 1805 From: Dave Slater Date: 12/17/2006
Subject: Re: Hi-Fi (was Test, please disregard)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1806 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 12/17/2006
Subject: Loco
Group: vintageHO Message: 1807 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 12/17/2006
Subject: Fwd: Some photos for you!
Group: vintageHO Message: 1808 From: John Barlow Date: 12/17/2006
Subject: Re: The Military Prototypes
Group: vintageHO Message: 1809 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/18/2006
Subject: Re: Loco
Group: vintageHO Message: 1810 From: takefive247 Date: 12/18/2006
Subject: Re: Athearn
Group: vintageHO Message: 1811 From: Ray Hobin Date: 12/18/2006
Subject: Re: The Military Prototypes
Group: vintageHO Message: 1812 From: herb1013 Date: 12/18/2006
Subject: Re: Athearn
Group: vintageHO Message: 1813 From: herb1013 Date: 12/18/2006
Subject: Re: Hi-Fi (was Test, please disregard)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1814 From: herb1013 Date: 12/18/2006
Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 1815 From: John Barlow Date: 12/18/2006
Subject: Re: Athearn
Group: vintageHO Message: 1816 From: Wobbly913 Date: 12/18/2006
Subject: Re: Athearn
Group: vintageHO Message: 1817 From: Andrew Emmerson Date: 12/18/2006
Subject: Re: The Military Prototypes
Group: vintageHO Message: 1818 From: Rick Jones Date: 12/18/2006
Subject: Re: Athearn
Group: vintageHO Message: 1819 From: Wobbly913 Date: 12/18/2006
Subject: Re: Athearn
Group: vintageHO Message: 1820 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/18/2006
Subject: mdc metal
Group: vintageHO Message: 1821 From: Roger Aultman Date: 12/19/2006
Subject: Re: mdc metal
Group: vintageHO Message: 1822 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/19/2006
Subject: Re: mdc metal
Group: vintageHO Message: 1823 From: bty419224 Date: 12/19/2006
Subject: Unknown mechanisms in England.
Group: vintageHO Message: 1824 From: Ray Hobin Date: 12/19/2006
Subject: Bomb range loco
Group: vintageHO Message: 1825 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/19/2006
Subject: Re: Unknown mechanisms in England.
Group: vintageHO Message: 1826 From: Glenn Date: 12/19/2006
Subject: Re: mdc metal
Group: vintageHO Message: 1827 From: John Barlow Date: 12/19/2006
Subject: Re: Unknown mechanisms in England.
Group: vintageHO Message: 1828 From: cgls@btinternet.com Date: 12/20/2006
Subject: Re: Unknown mechanisms in England.
Group: vintageHO Message: 1829 From: cgls@btinternet.com Date: 12/20/2006
Subject: Re: Unknown mechanisms in England.
Group: vintageHO Message: 1830 From: John Barlow Date: 12/20/2006
Subject: Re: Unknown mechanisms in England.
Group: vintageHO Message: 1831 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/20/2006
Subject: Re: Unknown mechanisms in England.
Group: vintageHO Message: 1832 From: Mike Sloane Date: 12/22/2006
Subject: New member
Group: vintageHO Message: 1833 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/22/2006
Subject: Re: New member
Group: vintageHO Message: 1834 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 12/22/2006
Subject: Re: New member
Group: vintageHO Message: 1835 From: Mike Sloane Date: 12/23/2006
Subject: Some images of my stuff
Group: vintageHO Message: 1836 From: tomvanhoy Date: 12/23/2006
Subject: Box cab re-united
Group: vintageHO Message: 1837 From: Glenn Date: 12/23/2006
Subject: Re: Box cab re-united
Group: vintageHO Message: 1838 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/23/2006
Subject: Re: Some images of my stuff
Group: vintageHO Message: 1839 From: Dave Slater Date: 12/23/2006
Subject: Slightly off topic..
Group: vintageHO Message: 1840 From: Mike Sloane Date: 12/24/2006
Subject: Re: Some images of my stuff
Group: vintageHO Message: 1841 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/24/2006
Subject: Re: Some images of my stuff
Group: vintageHO Message: 1842 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/24/2006
Subject: Happy Holidays
Group: vintageHO Message: 1843 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 12/24/2006
Subject: Re: Happy Holidays - Merry Christmas
Group: vintageHO Message: 1844 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 12/24/2006
Subject: Re: Some images of my stuff
Group: vintageHO Message: 1845 From: Rick Jones Date: 12/24/2006
Subject: Re: Some images of my stuff
Group: vintageHO Message: 1846 From: Mike Sloane Date: 12/24/2006
Subject: Re: Some images of my stuff
Group: vintageHO Message: 1847 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/24/2006
Subject: Re: Some images of my stuff
Group: vintageHO Message: 1848 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 12/25/2006
Subject: Re: Some images of my stuff - to Mike
Group: vintageHO Message: 1849 From: William Nielsen Date: 12/25/2006
Subject: Re: Some images of my stuff
Group: vintageHO Message: 1850 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 12/25/2006
Subject: Re: Some images of my stuff - to Mike
Group: vintageHO Message: 1851 From: John Hagen Date: 12/25/2006
Subject: Happy Holidays
Group: vintageHO Message: 1852 From: John Hagen Date: 12/25/2006
Subject: Why I can't view photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 1853 From: John Hagen Date: 12/25/2006
Subject: Re: Can't view photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 1854 From: Mike Sloane Date: 12/25/2006
Subject: Re: Some images of my stuff
Group: vintageHO Message: 1855 From: Glenn Date: 12/25/2006
Subject: Re: Why I can't view photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 1856 From: Lennard Stewart Date: 12/25/2006
Subject: Re: Why I can't view photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 1857 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 12/25/2006
Subject: Re: Why I can't view photos - for John Hagen
Group: vintageHO Message: 1858 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/25/2006
Subject: Re: Can't view photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 1859 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/25/2006
Subject: Re: Why I can't view photos
Group: vintageHO Message: 1860 From: Mike Bauers Date: 12/25/2006
Subject: Re: Some images of my stuff
Group: vintageHO Message: 1861 From: michael rapp, sr Date: 12/26/2006
Subject: Re: Some images of my stuff - to Mike
Group: vintageHO Message: 1862 From: Andrew Emmerson Date: 12/26/2006
Subject: Re: Some images of my stuff
Group: vintageHO Message: 1863 From: Mike Sloane Date: 12/26/2006
Subject: Re: Some images of my stuff
Group: vintageHO Message: 1864 From: Imp Ster Date: 12/26/2006
Subject: poll for new home page graphic?
Group: vintageHO Message: 1865 From: Imp Ster Date: 12/26/2006
Subject: re, poll for new pic (structures & vehicles)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1866 From: Glenn Date: 12/26/2006
Subject: Re: poll for new home page graphic?
Group: vintageHO Message: 1867 From: Glenn Date: 12/26/2006
Subject: Re: poll for new home page graphic?
Group: vintageHO Message: 1868 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/26/2006
Subject: Re: Some images of my stuff
Group: vintageHO Message: 1869 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/26/2006
Subject: Re: poll for new home page graphic?
Group: vintageHO Message: 1870 From: Imp Ster Date: 12/27/2006
Subject: re - vintage pic poll
Group: vintageHO Message: 1871 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/27/2006
Subject: Re: re - vintage pic poll
Group: vintageHO Message: 1872 From: Glenn Date: 12/27/2006
Subject: Re: re - vintage pic poll
Group: vintageHO Message: 1873 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 12/28/2006
Subject: Rulebook For Model railroading, With Compliments to Dr. Murphy
Group: vintageHO Message: 1874 From: John Hagen Date: 12/28/2006
Subject: Re: Rulebook For Model railroading, With Compliments to Dr. Murphy
Group: vintageHO Message: 1875 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/28/2006
Subject: a Moment of Madness
Group: vintageHO Message: 1876 From: John Hagen Date: 12/28/2006
Subject: Re: a Moment of Madness
Group: vintageHO Message: 1877 From: Bill C. Date: 12/29/2006
Subject: Re: a Moment of Madness
Group: vintageHO Message: 1878 From: Bill C. Date: 12/29/2006
Subject: Re: a Moment of Madness (Typos removed)
Group: vintageHO Message: 1879 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/29/2006
Subject: Re: a Moment of Madness
Group: vintageHO Message: 1880 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 12/29/2006
Subject: Re: a Moment of Madness
Group: vintageHO Message: 1881 From: Glenn Date: 12/29/2006
Subject: Re: a Moment of Madness
Group: vintageHO Message: 1882 From: Rick Jones Date: 12/29/2006
Subject: Re: a Moment of Madness
Group: vintageHO Message: 1883 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/29/2006
Subject: Re: a Moment of Madness
Group: vintageHO Message: 1884 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 12/30/2006
Subject: Re: The Essence of Our Nice Old Stuff ( was "moment of madness")
Group: vintageHO Message: 1885 From: John Hagen Date: 12/30/2006
Subject: Re: a Moment of Madness
Group: vintageHO Message: 1886 From: John Hagen Date: 12/30/2006
Subject: Re: a Moment of Madness
Group: vintageHO Message: 1887 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/30/2006
Subject: Re: a Moment of Madness
Group: vintageHO Message: 1888 From: Glenn Date: 12/30/2006
Subject: Re: a Moment of Madness
Group: vintageHO Message: 1889 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 12/30/2006
Subject: Re: a Moment of Madness
Group: vintageHO Message: 1890 From: bitlerisvj Date: 12/30/2006
Subject: Ambroid ACL Ventilated Boxcoar
Group: vintageHO Message: 1891 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/30/2006
Subject: Re: Ambroid ACL Ventilated Boxcoar
Group: vintageHO Message: 1892 From: Andrew Emmerson Date: 12/31/2006
Subject: How to contact John Spanagel?
Group: vintageHO Message: 1893 From: John Hagen Date: 12/31/2006
Subject: Re: a Moment of Madness
Group: vintageHO Message: 1894 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/31/2006
Subject: Happy New Year
Group: vintageHO Message: 1895 From: oahurailway Date: 12/31/2006
Subject: HAPPY NEW YEAR!
Group: vintageHO Message: 1896 From: Glenn Date: 12/31/2006
Subject: Re: Ambroid ACL Ventilated Boxcoar
Group: vintageHO Message: 1897 From: Glenn Date: 12/31/2006
Subject: Re: Ambroid ACL Ventilated Boxcoar
Group: vintageHO Message: 1898 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 12/31/2006
Subject: Re: Happy New Year
Group: vintageHO Message: 1899 From: nycrrmitch Date: 12/31/2006
Subject: Number Boards
Group: vintageHO Message: 1900 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 12/31/2006
Subject: Re: Ambroid ACL Ventilated Boxcoar
Group: vintageHO Message: 1901 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 12/31/2006
Subject: Re: Number Boards
Group: vintageHO Message: 1902 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 12/31/2006
Subject: Re: Ambroid ACL Ventilated Boxcoar
Group: vintageHO Message: 1903 From: Larry Date: 12/31/2006
Subject: Happy New Year
Group: vintageHO Message: 1904 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 12/31/2006
Subject: Re: How to contact John Spanagel? and "Varney wreck proof train"



Group: vintageHO Message: 1 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: Welcome
Welcome to our new Yahoo group, Vintage HO Operators.

There's other groups out there, for collectors of Athearn, Varney,
MDC and others, but I wanted to start one for just general good old
HO from the past.

This is the list for those who still run the good old HO of the past,
Varney, Penn Line, Athearn metal, the list is virtually endless.

Generally, I'm saying anything from the early 60's and before.
Athearn Rubber band drive diesels, Varney NW-2's and F-3's, brass
from Akane and MB Austin, extruded magnesium passenger cars from
Samson. Varney cardstock and wood kits. MDC Metal. Whatever....

"On topic" are is HO that us "baby boomers" and our older mentors
grew up with.

Share with us the models you have and run. Photo attachments are
welcome, as long as they're .jpg format.

Sale or trade is great, as long as it's "vintage" HO.

Thanks for joining us.

Don
moderator vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
Group: vintageHO Message: 2 From: wobbly913 Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: Athearn rubber band drive
Hi all

I have rather recently started to casually collect Athearn rubber
band drive engines. They are mostly F7 types, in a variety of
railroad names. I have an ABA set of Santa Fe warbonnet, an ABA blue
bonnet, an AB Milwaukee set and an AB Black Widow Sp as well as an SP
bloodynose Gp7. The motors turn in all of the powered units(the B's
anb second A's are dummys), but only one will pull anything, the rest
need rubber bands and Athearn says that they no longer supply the
rubber bands, so I am interested to know if anyone has a convenient
replacement source. I also have 4 RDC cars, a Santa Fe RDC3 powered,
which I bought brand new recently, and 3 non powered.
I also have an AB set of the plastic frame dummy engines that Athearn
made in the mid 50's I think.

Wobbly 913
Group: vintageHO Message: 3 From: Bill Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: Vintage
Yeah those newer kits like Menzes (it's been so long I'm not sure of
the spelling now) and Globe are ok, but for a real challenge work on a
Strombecker kit.

Will

(makes dirt look very new)
Group: vintageHO Message: 4 From: Will Seehorn Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: Re: Athearn rubber band drive
At 09:33 PM 2/21/04 , you wrote:

>need rubber bands and Athearn says that they no longer supply the
>rubber bands, so I am interested to know if anyone has a
convenient 
>replacement source.

It's been a long time, but I think I used to use regular rubber bands -- they come in sizes so you may have to play around to see what works.

Will
Group: vintageHO Message: 5 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: Re: Vintage
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill <wseehorn@...>
To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 8:51 PM
Subject: [vintageHO] Vintage


> Yeah those newer kits like Menzes (it's been so long I'm not sure of
> the spelling now) and Globe are ok, but for a real challenge work on a
> Strombecker kit.
>
> Will
>
> (makes dirt look very new)

The list is 5 hours old, 3 hours since I announced it. We have 11 members
and three posts! GREAT!!!!

I never did a Strombecker, but I was always intrigued by the RI "Rocket" TA
and train. As I recall they had paper overlays on balsa bodies, didn't
they? I also seem to recall they were actually 1/8" scale.

Talk about a challange, anyone have any tips on getting the handrail
stanchions mounted correctly on a Thomas wine tanker? It's driving me up
the layout room walls.

Don

don.dellmann@...
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Group: vintageHO Message: 6 From: don.dellmann Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: Re: Athearn rubber band drive
----- Original Message -----
From: Will Seehorn <wseehorn@...>
To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 9:13 PM
Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Athearn rubber band drive


> At 09:33 PM 2/21/04 , you wrote:
>
> >need rubber bands and Athearn says that they no longer supply the
> >rubber bands, so I am interested to know if anyone has a convenient
> >replacement source.
>
> It's been a long time, but I think I used to use regular rubber bands --
they
> come in sizes so you may have to play around to see what works.
>
> Will

Check with your dentist. I've been told that the rubber bands they use on
braces will work well.

Don

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Group: vintageHO Message: 7 From: don.dellmann Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: Re: Athearn rubber band drive
----- Original Message -----
From: wobbly913 <wobbly913@...>
To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 8:33 PM
Subject: [vintageHO] Athearn rubber band drive


> Hi all
>
> I have rather recently started to casually collect Athearn rubber
> band drive engines. They are mostly F7 types, in a variety of
> railroad names. I have an ABA set of Santa Fe warbonnet, an ABA blue
> bonnet, an AB Milwaukee set and an AB Black Widow Sp as well as an SP
> bloodynose Gp7. The motors turn in all of the powered units(the B's
> anb second A's are dummys), but only one will pull anything, the rest
> need rubber bands and Athearn says that they no longer supply the
> rubber bands, so I am interested to know if anyone has a convenient
> replacement source. I also have 4 RDC cars, a Santa Fe RDC3 powered,
> which I bought brand new recently, and 3 non powered.
> I also have an AB set of the plastic frame dummy engines that Athearn
> made in the mid 50's I think.
>
> Wobbly 913

If the "plastic frame" A unit has a single headlight it's actually an
original "Globe" model.
Athearn added the second headlight when they took over Carl Traub's
oriiginal dies, and offered the dummys that way until the early 1960's.

As to the rubber bands, see my other post. I'm going in to get started on
my lower plate soon, and I'm going to ask my dentist, my RDC needs new
rubber bands too. Besides, he owes me, I advised him on getting Athearn HO
for his daughter this past Christmas <G>.

Don

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Group: vintageHO Message: 8 From: Roger Aultman Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: Re: Vintage
I have a unassembled kit would a scan of the instructions help?
Roger Aultman




Don Dellmann wrote:

>
> Talk about a challange, anyone have any tips on getting the handrail
> stanchions mounted correctly on a Thomas wine tanker? It's driving me up
> the layout room walls.
>
> Don
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
Group: vintageHO Message: 9 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: Re: Vintage
I have the instructions. It's getting the dang things bent properly inside
the tank that's frustrating. I'm thinking of just going to brass stanchions
if I can find some.

Don

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----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Aultman <raul@...>
To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 9:56 PM
Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Vintage


> I have a unassembled kit would a scan of the instructions help?
> Roger Aultman
>
>
>
>
> Don Dellmann wrote:
>
> >
> > Talk about a challange, anyone have any tips on getting the handrail
> > stanchions mounted correctly on a Thomas wine tanker? It's driving me
up
> > the layout room walls.
> >
> > Don
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
Group: vintageHO Message: 10 From: Kjb80401@aol.com Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: New Member aboard
Greetings to all 12 of you. May I introduce myself,

Varney, Penn Line, Megow, Kasiner, Blue Line, Lionel HO, Ulrich, American
Beauty, Hobbyline, Marx, Revell are all names I'm familiar with. Used to be part
owner of Ulrich a few years back. How about Laconia car kits, I have some.
Remember the Athearn metal-sided car kits? Lehigh? Red Ball metal reefer
kits? Silver Streak? Mantua reefers? MDC / Roundhouse metal car kits? Main
Line wood kits?

How about those old Walthers kits? A stamped metal sided CB&Q Doodlebug with
a drive that uses a closed-loop spring to transfer the power from the motor
to the drive gears. Boy does it run smooth. I knew Wm. K. back when.

How about a brass-boilered cast metal Mogul kit by Mantua with a 6-volt motor?

I'm Keevan Burnside, aged 64, and have been modeling in HO since Cristmas
1947 when I received my first piece, a Varney stamped-metal with wood floor
Illinois Central reefer. I still have it. For Christmas 1948 I received a Silver
Streak caboose kit, which I still have also. Sentimental I guess. They're
still runable, now sporting Kadee couplers.

I acquired a Varney Aerotrain set of kits when origianlly issued. However,
have sold them to a collector since I had received a set + 2 cars from Bowser
decorated for the Rock Island. You see, I witnessed the inaugural and final
runs of the train.

I have four Globe diesels (the Athearn predecessor), all operable but are
dummies. Have the mechanism to power them, a project for the future.

I have, still in kit form, several paper-sided cars, that are now 'antiques'.

I seriously collect Swift reefers, want one of each manufactured, at least up
to recently, and am lacking only two that I know of. I saw them at a swap
meet in Cleveland once but couldn't get the owner to part with them at any price.

With respect to the current thread regarding rubber band drive, I had a
couple, and was glad to get rid of them years ago. 200 mph is not my style.

Looking forward to sharing your experiences with our hobby's history.

Keevan
Golden, Colorado now
Group: vintageHO Message: 11 From: Kjb80401@aol.com Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: Re: Vintage
In a message dated 2/21/04 8:28:26 PM Mountain Standard Time,
don.dellmann@... writes:

<< I never did a Strombecker, but I was always intrigued by the RI "Rocket"
TA and train. As I recall they had paper overlays on balsa bodies, didn't
they? I also seem to recall they were actually 1/8" scale. >>

As a kid I lived in Davenport, Iowa which is across the river from Moline,
Illinois, the home of Strombecker. I built the RI Rocket you mention.
Basswood, not balsa. Shaped roof, fluted lower sides, and a block of wood separated
the two. Trucks were wood also, incuding the wheels. To this assembly the
paper sides were applied, fitting into a groove provided in the roof and lower
side pieces. Wish I still had it today, I hear it's really worth something.
Don't know what ever happened to it. Not sure of the scale. Sure was close to
HO though.

Now, I have a jewel you've never heard of. A 4-4-0 kit that Strombecker made
but never issued. Seems the company folded before they could.

Keevan
Group: vintageHO Message: 12 From: Kjb80401@aol.com Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: Re: Athearn rubber band drive
I seem to recall seeing some rubber bands at Caboose Hobbies in Denver a
while back. You might try emailing to inquire about the possibility.

information@...

I've also seen them at some swap meet. So, they're still around to be had.
Trick is finding them.

Keevan
Group: vintageHO Message: 13 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vintageHO
group.

File : /thomas inst.jpg
Uploaded by : roger_aultman <raul@...>
Description : instructions

You can access this file at the URL

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/thomas%20inst.jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit

http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

roger_aultman <raul@...>
Group: vintageHO Message: 14 From: wb3iqe Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: Re: Athearn rubber band drive
--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...>
wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Will Seehorn <wseehorn@e...>
> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 9:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Athearn rubber band drive
>
>
> > At 09:33 PM 2/21/04 , you wrote:
> >
> > >need rubber bands and Athearn says that they no longer supply the
> > >rubber bands, so I am interested to know if anyone has a
convenient
> > >replacement source.
> >
> > It's been a long time, but I think I used to use regular rubber
bands --
> they
> > come in sizes so you may have to play around to see what works.
> >
> > Will
>
> Check with your dentist. I've been told that the rubber bands they
use on
> braces will work well.

Yes, but...

Those come in a variety of sizes too. So you still need to fool
around to get the right ones.

Bob Netzlof
Group: vintageHO Message: 15 From: wb3iqe Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: A mystery hopper car
Several years ago I came home from a shop with an odd-ball hopper
car. It was plastic, olive green in color (unpainted). It was a 2 bay
car, exterior framing on the sides, rather like a PRR H31C (the ones
where they replaced the wood sides with steel plates).

The really distinctive thing was on the center sill. The coupler box
lid was held on by a rather long miniature screw, probably #00 size,
which turned up into a little tube cast onto the top of the coupler
box part of the center sill.

I could not find any name anywhere on the car, so have no idea who
made it. A couple years later I ran into another one of them at
another show. That one was quite resistable since someone had painted
it yellow using poster paint and a shaving brush.

In any event, does my description ring any bells? Any idea who made
the thing?

Bob Netzlof
Group: vintageHO Message: 16 From: Dave Slater Date: 2/22/2004
Subject: New Member...
Hello,
Just signed up to the group, I have some "Antique" TriAng "HO/OO that was a christmas
gift my first Christmas in Canada in 1959 at the ripe old age of 8 years. It was in
storage in first my parents then my basement for several years due to lack of space
for a layout, and finances to build one, and unfortunately the boxes got a little
damp and some rust has occurred. The old yellow Alco RS style locomotive ws the worst
affected with all the hand rails ready to crumble at the slightest touch, the cars
all have some rusting of the couplers, prototypical weathering I guess it could be
called. <G> I'm not sure if the locomotive will still run or not, almost scared to
try.
Dave S.
From the very foggy Canadian Prairies.
Group: vintageHO Message: 17 From: k youngmann Date: 2/22/2004
Subject: another new member
Just joined yesterday and want to mention that I have a number of
Varney and other vintage cars on my SKP Lines:

4 hoppers (plus several more in boxes waiting for replacement trucks
and wheel sets)
3 tank cars (I could have sworn I had at least 5 but only 3 show up on
my database)!
2 outside brace box cars

The tank cars may not be a specific prototype but I've always said that
they're the best proportioned tanks I've seen.

I also have several Ulrich metal and metal/wood cars:

2 flats
1 hopper

There's one Binkley wood reefer.

A Main Line wood reefer.

An Olympic Cascade wood box.

3 wood Silver Streak box cars

1 Silver Streak wood reefer

2 Silver Streak wood gons

A Cliff Line wood caboose.

2 Ambroid wood box

2 Ambroid phosphate cars

1 Ambroid ventilated watermelon car

1 Ambroid Mathieson dry ice reefer (with a stuck coupler due to some
stray ACC cement!)

I've had these for over 40 years.

A little later vintage, but possibly of interest: at least 50 Train
Miniature box cars, reefers and gons.

Kurt Youngmann
SKP Lines - The Route of the Turkey

PS - I'm in the Chicago area - north suburbs. If anyone in around here
is interested in operating the layout please contact me.
Group: vintageHO Message: 18 From: Christian Tucker Date: 2/22/2004
Subject: Dill and Sweet
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&item=3177201630&category=484

That car is a new one to me. Late 50's Paul Larsen and Don
Rechenberg (SP?) certainly made pickle modeling a fad. The existing
AHM car is a relic from this era. I also remember the Ambroid. I
retrucked a Mantua Civil War water car and declared it a Pickle Car
so I could be just like the Milwaukee fellows.

Is this a "pure" Athearn or one of the OEM cars they did for other
folks?


Christian Tucker
New York
Group: vintageHO Message: 19 From: Jack Priller Date: 2/22/2004
Subject: Re: Athearn rubber band drive
--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "wb3iqe" <wb3iqe@r...> wrote:
> --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "don.dellmann"
<don.dellmann@p...>
> wrote:
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Will Seehorn <wseehorn@e...>
> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 9:13 PM
> > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Athearn rubber band drive
> >
> >
> > > At 09:33 PM 2/21/04 , you wrote:
> > >
> > > >need rubber bands and Athearn says that they no longer supply
the
> > > >rubber bands, so I am interested to know if anyone has a
> convenient
> > > >replacement source.
> > >
> > > It's been a long time, but I think I used to use regular
rubber
> bands --
> > they
> > > come in sizes so you may have to play around to see what works.
> > >
> > > Will
> >
> > Check with your dentist. I've been told that the rubber bands
they
> use on
> > braces will work well.
>
> Yes, but...
>
> Those come in a variety of sizes too. So you still need to fool
> around to get the right ones.
>
> Bob Netzlof

IIRC, the orthodontist rubber bands that fit are either #2 or #3;
that at least narrows things down a bit. Other tip I recall was to
get SQUARE rubber bands, seems the flat ones sound like sizzling
meat!

Jack "The Trolleynut" Priller
Group: vintageHO Message: 20 From: Jack Priller Date: 2/22/2004
Subject: Another 'mystery' car
A tank car, in light blue box. Box rubber stamped "TANK CAR
SINCLAIR", no manufacturer name on box or instruction sheet.
Instruction sheet is photocopy[?] of hand-drawn original so faded
and yellowed that I'm not sure I can even scan it. Tank is piece of
dowel, frame and end caps die-cast, vynil[?] wrapper and stamped
metal ladders, steps, etc. Weirdest parts are the couplers.
Visualize a block letter P with a V-shaped thing pivoted inside the
top left of the P. V piece has hooks towards the inside of it.
[Reminds me of an old set of tongs used to move blocks of ice, but
rigid.]
Identifier of this one gets my thanks and congratulations, as that's
about all I can afford.

Jack "The Trolleynut" Priller
Group: vintageHO Message: 21 From: Roger Aultman Date: 2/22/2004
Subject: Re: Another 'mystery' car
I'd guess Walthers, they had a coupler that sounded like that.
Roger Aultman



Jack Priller wrote:
> A tank car, in light blue box. Box rubber stamped "TANK CAR
> SINCLAIR", no manufacturer name on box or instruction sheet.
> Instruction sheet is photocopy[?] of hand-drawn original so faded
> and yellowed that I'm not sure I can even scan it. Tank is piece of
> dowel, frame and end caps die-cast, vynil[?] wrapper and stamped
> metal ladders, steps, etc. Weirdest parts are the couplers.
> Visualize a block letter P with a V-shaped thing pivoted inside the
> top left of the P. V piece has hooks towards the inside of it.
> [Reminds me of an old set of tongs used to move blocks of ice, but
> rigid.]
> Identifier of this one gets my thanks and congratulations, as that's
> about all I can afford.
>
> Jack "The Trolleynut" Priller
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
Group: vintageHO Message: 22 From: Dave Slater Date: 2/22/2004
Subject: Re: Another 'mystery' car
Jack,
That coupler almost sounds like an old Europen one, possibly TriAng..
Dave S.

Jack Priller wrote:

> A tank car, in light blue box. Box rubber stamped "TANK CAR
> SINCLAIR", no manufacturer name on box or instruction sheet.
> Instruction sheet is photocopy[?] of hand-drawn original so faded
> and yellowed that I'm not sure I can even scan it. Tank is piece of
> dowel, frame and end caps die-cast, vynil[?] wrapper and stamped
> metal ladders, steps, etc. Weirdest parts are the couplers.
> Visualize a block letter P with a V-shaped thing pivoted inside the
> top left of the P. V piece has hooks towards the inside of it.
> [Reminds me of an old set of tongs used to move blocks of ice, but
> rigid.]
> Identifier of this one gets my thanks and congratulations, as that's
> about all I can afford.
>
> Jack "The Trolleynut" Priller
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
Group: vintageHO Message: 23 From: don.dellmann Date: 2/22/2004
Subject: Re: Dill and Sweet
----- Original Message -----
From: Christian Tucker <ctucker1@...>
To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 12:16 PM
Subject: [vintageHO] Dill and Sweet


> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
> ViewItem&item=3177201630&category=484
>
> That car is a new one to me. Late 50's Paul Larsen and Don
> Rechenberg (SP?) certainly made pickle modeling a fad. The existing
> AHM car is a relic from this era. I also remember the Ambroid. I
> retrucked a Mantua Civil War water car and declared it a Pickle Car
> so I could be just like the Milwaukee fellows.
>
> Is this a "pure" Athearn or one of the OEM cars they did for other
> folks?
>
>
> Christian Tucker
> New York

I've never seen one with the red tanks, but I THINK I've heard of it. My
fist one had yellow tanks. The one I have now has the solid sides.

Don

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Group: vintageHO Message: 24 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/22/2004
Subject: Re: Another 'mystery' car
--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Roger Aultman <raul@n...> wrote:
> I'd guess Walthers, they had a coupler that sounded like that.
> Roger Aultman
>
>
>
> Jack Priller wrote:

(text deleted)

As I recall the Walthers automatic coupler, wasn't that a casting
something like a knuckle with a flat peiece of spring metal
(brass.steel?) forming the "thumb?

Just a comment, when people post these "what is this?" posts,
attachments ARE allowed, as long as they're .jpg format and not too
large (try to keep each photo around 100K). A picture would help a
LOT.

Don

moderator VintageHO@...
Group: vintageHO Message: 25 From: don.dellmann Date: 2/22/2004
Subject: Re: Another 'mystery' car
The car itself, I believe both Walthers and Silver Streak used a similar
construction.

Don

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----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Aultman <raul@...>
To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 5:39 PM
Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Another 'mystery' car


> I'd guess Walthers, they had a coupler that sounded like that.
> Roger Aultman
>
(text deleted)
Group: vintageHO Message: 26 From: Kjb80401@aol.com Date: 2/22/2004
Subject: Re: Another 'mystery' car
In a message dated 2/22/04 4:42:21 PM Mountain Standard Time,
westpac67@... writes:

<< Tank is piece of dowel, frame and end caps die-cast, vynil[?] wrapper and
stamped metal ladders, steps, etc. >>

May not be of any assistance but listen up for a moment:

This description is similar to the way Red Ball put out kits long, long ago.
I have a Red Ball reefer kit that came in a plain brown cardboard box with a
five cent stamp used to mail it with. (That's gotta be old) The label on the
box stated that they were the manufacturer FOR Red Ball kits. The
instructions were printed though. The parts are a combination of wood and cast metal.
Didn't see any couplers. However, the parts envelope, the usual small tan-ish
still used today like in Athearn kits, is still sealed and I don't really
want to open it.

Keevan
Group: vintageHO Message: 27 From: Garry Spear Date: 2/22/2004
Subject: Re: Dill and Sweet
WOW. I have one running on my layout. Pure original Athearn.

Garry

don.dellmann wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Christian Tucker <ctucker1@...>
> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 12:16 PM
> Subject: [vintageHO] Dill and Sweet
>
>
>
>>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
>>ViewItem&item=3177201630&category=484
>>
>>That car is a new one to me. Late 50's Paul Larsen and Don
>>Rechenberg (SP?) certainly made pickle modeling a fad. The existing
>>AHM car is a relic from this era. I also remember the Ambroid. I
>>retrucked a Mantua Civil War water car and declared it a Pickle Car
>>so I could be just like the Milwaukee fellows.
>>
>>Is this a "pure" Athearn or one of the OEM cars they did for other
>>folks?
>>
>>
>>Christian Tucker
>>New York
>
>
> I've never seen one with the red tanks, but I THINK I've heard of it. My
> fist one had yellow tanks. The one I have now has the solid sides.
>
> Don
Group: vintageHO Message: 28 From: wb3iqe Date: 2/22/2004
Subject: More about My Mystery Car
--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...>
wrote:

> Just a comment, when people post these "what is this?" posts,
> attachments ARE allowed, as long as they're .jpg format and not too
> large (try to keep each photo around 100K). A picture would help a
> LOT.

Understood and agreed. Problem is, the car is in a box somewhere in
The Dreaded Basement and so...

To elaborate a bit on the car I mentioned earlier, mechanically it
reminds me of the current Athearn two bays, in that the body is a one
piece molding. The separate underframe is rather like Athearn's also.

It is NOT Athearn, however, as the body models a steel sided car
which has vertical and diagonal ribs, something Athearn didn't model.
Also, there are those tubular things on the upper side of the
underframe, to give the long skinny coupler box cover screws
something to screw into. I've never seen that on anything else.

Whole thing is in olive green plastic, no paint. I keep
thinking "Cox", but for no reason other than that it's the same color
as the railway artillery piece Cox (and AHM) once made.

Bob Netzlof
Group: vintageHO Message: 29 From: Galen Gallimore Date: 2/23/2004
Subject: Re: More about My Mystery Car
Bob,

Sorry, I can't help you identify the car, but I have to make a
comment on your first post. I nearly busted a gut laughing with your
description of the poor paint job you saw on another hopper. Poster
paint and a shaving brush! That's great! I know just what you're
talking about. However, it does give me an idea for weathering...and
some of us still actually use shaving brushes, so I know they're out
there. Another topic for another group, perhaps.

Thanks for the humor, and good luck with the car.

Galen

http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/kitbashing_ho_structures

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "wb3iqe" <wb3iqe@r...> wrote:
> --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann"
<don.dellmann@p...>
> wrote:
>
> > Just a comment, when people post these "what is this?" posts,
> > attachments ARE allowed, as long as they're .jpg format and not
too
> > large (try to keep each photo around 100K). A picture would help
a
> > LOT.
>
> Understood and agreed. Problem is, the car is in a box somewhere in
> The Dreaded Basement and so...
>
> To elaborate a bit on the car I mentioned earlier, mechanically it
> reminds me of the current Athearn two bays, in that the body is a
one
> piece molding. The separate underframe is rather like Athearn's
also.
>
> It is NOT Athearn, however, as the body models a steel sided car
> which has vertical and diagonal ribs, something Athearn didn't
model.
> Also, there are those tubular things on the upper side of the
> underframe, to give the long skinny coupler box cover screws
> something to screw into. I've never seen that on anything else.
>
> Whole thing is in olive green plastic, no paint. I keep
> thinking "Cox", but for no reason other than that it's the same
color
> as the railway artillery piece Cox (and AHM) once made.
>
> Bob Netzlof
Group: vintageHO Message: 30 From: Galen Gallimore Date: 2/23/2004
Subject: new member
Hello all!

Found this group through a post on the GandD group. Looks great, it
should be some interesting reading as time goes by. Anyway, I
discovered the classic kits a few years back. At a GATS show in Ohio
I stumbled across a Selley passenger car. Real nice metal kit, paid
$15 for it. Glad I did, since I've seen them go for over $50 on ebay
since then. Anyway, from that point on the bug has bit hard.

Just recently found an Athearn 50' round roof box for the N&W. A
kind member of an Athearn group sent me the missing instructions.
I'm looking forward to assembling this one. Also waiting are a
couple of Ulrich Sierra cars, in the same vein as the Selley kit, and
a Northeastern coach to go along with the open platform combine. I
never knew a box of wood and metal parts and a sheet of plans could
be so much fun!

I haven't given up on the current kits, after all I started out on
Athearn blue boxes, moved on to MDC Roundhouse, and then the
carbuilding slowed down through college until recently (after grad
school - amazing how a steady income can boost interest and activity
in this hobby). I have to say it's the classic kits that rekindled
that fire. However, I'm a bit put off by the current RTR trend. I
hope it's just a phase.

I know this is slightly off topic, but I've found immense joy in the
classic structure kits as well - Alexander, SS Ltd, etc. Structures,
especially kitbashing, is my main interest in the hobby, but I truly
admire a well built wooden kit or other classic car. I'm anxious to
try a Red Ball kit...that depressed center flat looks great.

Thanks for listening, I look forward learning more from this group.

Galen Gallimore

http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/kitbashing_ho_structures
Group: vintageHO Message: 31 From: steamengine4449us Date: 2/23/2004
Subject: Re: Dill and Sweet
I have one of those here! My Pickle car is undecorated black with
yellow barrels. It came with stantions and sides. I put the sides on
it. I have the spindly loooong stantions like in the picture. I think
Athearn still even makes them.

This my first post here. Hi! I go by Steamengine 4449. Yes after the
famous SP steamer. I collect Athearn and MDC engines and cars from
all eras. And in all eras (I do not model a certain time period I get
what looks good) I also own a group for MDC roundhouse models
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mdcroundhouse for all eras of MDC
roundhouse models.
I have several Athearn RDC cars dummys being pulled by a P1K RDC3. I
resently got a powered RDC3 but the bands are too loose. I will be
looking for the correct bands. I also have a non powered F7b with a
rubber band style frame with screw on trucks and couplers (I replaced
the cover with a KD coupler box). I also have a not decorated
streamlined RPO for back when Athearn coaches came in several pieces.
It is in its yellow Athearn box. I got it used last year. I am always
looking for other classic Athearn. Also looking for those orignel MDC
kits that were made of metal! I also resently got an Athearn Hustler.
Not sure how old mine is but it is the only one I have ever seen.
They are still on Athearn's website but I have not seen any stores
that sell them still.

Also I have two AHM Monon BL2s and an AHM Fairbanks Morse C liner. I
am nto sure how old they are.

I get my classics from the train shows that come to town now and then
and from stores that sell used trains.

Steamengine 4449

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Christian Tucker" <ctucker1@r...>
wrote:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&item=3177201630&category=484
>
> That car is a new one to me. Late 50's Paul Larsen and Don
> Rechenberg (SP?) certainly made pickle modeling a fad. The
existing
> AHM car is a relic from this era. I also remember the Ambroid. I
> retrucked a Mantua Civil War water car and declared it a Pickle Car
> so I could be just like the Milwaukee fellows.
>
> Is this a "pure" Athearn or one of the OEM cars they did for other
> folks?
>
>
> Christian Tucker
> New York
Group: vintageHO Message: 32 From: Wobbly913 Date: 2/24/2004
Subject: Re: Athearn rubber band drive
Thanks to all of you who responded to my question, where to get new rubber bands.  It sounds as though the orthodontist rubber bands would be the easiest to get locally so I will look into that on my next dentist visit. 
 
Wobbly913

Jack Priller <westpac67@...> wrote:
--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "wb3iqe" <wb3iqe@r...> wrote:
> --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "don.dellmann"
<don.dellmann@p...>
> wrote:
> >
>
> Yes, but...
>
> Those come in a variety of sizes too. So you still need to fool
> around to get the right ones.
>
> Bob Netzlof

IIRC, the orthodontist rubber bands that fit are either #2 or #3;
that at least narrows things down a bit. Other tip I recall was to
get SQUARE rubber bands, seems the flat ones sound like sizzling
meat!

Jack "The Trolleynut" Priller




Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.

Group: vintageHO Message: 33 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/27/2004
Subject: Features
Just wanted to remind everyone that there are other features for your use on
the groups web page.

Especially, the photo albums and files sections. Please share your vintage
collection with the rest of us. Go to the photos page, create an album and
share some pictures with us. The only thing I ask is put them in an album
instead of just "loose". For the nonce, we'll leave the "full size" option
available unless we get too full.

The files section is for text files primarily, or zipped copies of large
scans, such as instruction sheets for vintage models or catalog pages etc.
Roger Aultman has posted some information on the relatively rare "Walthers
auto coupler" that's very interesting.

There's also a calendar to notify the group of events that may be of
interest to the members, and a links page for links to other sites or groups
within the scope of the list.

I'd also like to ask at the momemt if anyone would be willing to be an
assistant moderator. God forbid anything should happen to me, but I am
"vintage" myself <G>, and I would like to have one or two people as "backup"
in case anything should happen that I can't be here.

This is YOUR list. let's make it a good one.

Thanks

Don

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Group: vintageHO Message: 34 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/27/2004
Subject: Moderators
I'm happy to announce that Jack Priller and Don Riley have been appointed
assistant moderators.

I know both well through extensive interaction on many other groups, and am
confident that should I be unable to continue, or need to take a hiatus from
cyberspace, they will be able to keep the group together and running well.

Don

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Group: vintageHO Message: 35 From: Garry Spear Date: 3/1/2004
Subject: FA: Varney, Globe, & International; Metal Car Kits
Hi All,

Clearing some space and selling what is boxed away. I have listed 3 HO
metal car kits and 1 Campbell wood structure kit on ebay, all from the
1950s.

1) METAL GLOBE DEEP ROCK TANK CAR KIT NIB
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3179029487

2) METAL KIT INTERNATIONAL, RI BOX CAR NIB
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3179034794

3) METAL VARNEY NP FLAT CAR F-18 w/ORIGINAL LOAD
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3179041934

4) CAMPBELL SCALE MODELS - HO TIMBER OIL DERRICK VINTAGE
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3179039040

These kits are all new and complete except for the Varney Flat car which
is missing the air tank.

I have listed other modern trains, if you car to look.

Garry Spear
Group: vintageHO Message: 36 From: yaqui392000 Date: 3/1/2004
Subject: Vintage HO for sale
I have some Kits that are Vintage HO I will list with price and am
Open to trade for Modelround house Dummy Climax need 3 or 4

AHM minikits #581 Old Time Factory in the box some sub assembly this
kit is complet as far as I can tekk Got it did not like it afert I
got it home Has cast in Holes in the roof made to loook like that
dont show it on the Box 8.00 plus shipping Next is AHM 5824
Minikits Ruby Basen Timber trestel Kit in box great kit dont have the
room in Fl i had in NJ for Trestel 8.00 + shipping Suydam 1886
Fright House Red walls 7.95+ shipping Suydam Old town Business Block
7.95 + shipping Suydam Old town Lodgeings 7.95+shipping Suydam Old
town 7.95 + shipping and 4 car kits Athern #1599 Reffer undecorated
or put togather $5.00 model roundhouse RockIsland Gondola Kit made
$4.00 model round house Modern Box car undedecorated made 4.00 true
scale Penn RR steel modern Caboose with extra MRH body 4.00 +
shipping on all cars all the Kits are new in the box and were
bought at Train shows in NJ with plane to bild a real big Layout but
Moved to Florsa and No room at all for a big layout Like I said i
would make a trade on Model round house Dummy Climax Kits thanks
li Thanks Yaqui
Group: vintageHO Message: 37 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/1/2004
Subject: Re: FA: Varney, Globe, & International; Metal Car Kits
----- Original Message -----
From: Garry Spear <gspear@...>
To: Vintage HO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 10:10 AM
Subject: [vintageHO] FA: Varney, Globe, & International; Metal Car Kits


> Hi All,
>
> Clearing some space and selling what is boxed away. I have listed 3 HO
> metal car kits and 1 Campbell wood structure kit on ebay, all from the
> 1950s.
>
(deletions)

> 2) METAL KIT INTERNATIONAL, RI BOX CAR NIB
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3179034794

Interesting. I'd never seen one of these before, but I think I'm bidding on
one built up right now on another auction.

Don

don.dellmann@...
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Group: vintageHO Message: 38 From: Garry Spear Date: 3/1/2004
Subject: Re: FA: Varney, Globe, & International; Metal Car Kits
>>
>> SNIP
>>
>>2) METAL KIT INTERNATIONAL, RI BOX CAR NIB
>>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3179034794
>
>
> Interesting. I'd never seen one of these before, but I think I'm bidding on
> one built up right now on another auction.
>
> Don
>

These are very similar to the Globe box and reefer cars. The have some
super looking reefers. The line comprised about 40 different boxcars
and 15 reefers. Plus others like tank, stock, cabin (caboose), and work
equipment.

Garry Spear
Group: vintageHO Message: 39 From: Mike Dinapoli Date: 3/2/2004
Subject: 1 more new member
Hi my name is Mike&i collect old Athearn equipment.I also collect
AHM stuff as well.I've been in the hobby most of my life&i like
collecting model trains.
Group: vintageHO Message: 40 From: Phil Date: 3/2/2004
Subject: Boiler Front
Does anyone know where I might obtain a boiler front for a brass
United 0-6-0 switcher? Unfortunately the one on my model got lost.
Thanks.

Phil.
Group: vintageHO Message: 41 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/2/2004
Subject: Re: Boiler Front
----- Original Message -----
From: Phil <UptownVideo@...>
To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:17 PM
Subject: [vintageHO] Boiler Front


> Does anyone know where I might obtain a boiler front for a brass
> United 0-6-0 switcher? Unfortunately the one on my model got lost.
> Thanks.
>
> Phil.

Which one, the Omaha or the UP? (I had an Omaha, I wish I'd never sold it).

I doubt if you'd find an original anymore unless you got real lucky or found
a "basket case" version of the same model, but Precision scale has a number
of different sizes and styles, one of which may fit. Cal Scale has some
too, but mostly for larger locomotives. You may also try to contact Bowser
( http://www.bowser-trains.com ) They manufacture the Cal Scale line as
well as their own kits.

Hint, go to Walthers ( http://www.walthers.com ) and in "advance search" try
"smokebox front". Either don't specify scale, or do the search several
times to include the narrow gauge ones.

Don

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Group: vintageHO Message: 42 From: tcol01@earthlink.net Date: 3/3/2004
Subject: Boiler Front
On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 "Phil" <UptownVideo@...> asked:

>Subject: Boiler Front
>
>Does anyone know where I might obtain a boiler front for a brass
>United 0-6-0 switcher? Unfortunately the one on my model got lost.
>Thanks.

What's the exact size you need..PFM had more than one 0-6-0?

I have a few old Cal-Scales, still packaged, for Harriman and CNW
boilers, that are too big. But also, in my junk brass casting boxes,
which I gobbled up while stationed in Japan in the mid-60s, I did
locate one front that measures 21.7mm in diameter, roughly a H0 scale
of 74.5 inches. Still probably too big.


Ray Hobin
NMRA Life # 1735; TCA # HR-78-12540; ARHS # 2421
Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
Group: vintageHO Message: 43 From: Phil Date: 3/3/2004
Subject: Re: Boiler Front
I don't have the original box so I'm not sure which road the United
0-6-0 is. It was purchased at a train show about 15 years ago by my
dad. I did measure the boiler front with my HO scale rule. She
measures 68". As it is difficult to get an exact measurement I would
say plus or minus one scale inch. Thanks for replies. Phil....
Group: vintageHO Message: 44 From: tcol01@earthlink.net Date: 3/4/2004
Subject: Old Pix
Located some old black & white pix of late 50s and early 60s era H0
locomotives

One is an AHM, "New One" 0-8-0, lettered for my "SA&NJ" but believe it
was originally an AC&I 0-8-0. If not an AC&I, can anyone identify it?

The other one is a 4-4-0 kitbashed from Mantua's brass "Belle of the
80s" and Mantua's brass Mogul, based on, I believe, a 2 part article
in RMC in the late 50s. Another pix, 3/4 view, appeared in RMC in May
1971, page 33.



Ray Hobin
NMRA Life # 1735; TCA # HR-78-12540; ARHS # 2421
Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
Group: vintageHO Message: 45 From: tcol01@earthlink.net Date: 3/4/2004
Subject: Old Pix
Sorry for repeat, but forgot to mention pix are in this group's photo
section.

Located some old black & white pix of late 50s and early 60s era H0
locomotives

One is an AHM, "New One" 0-8-0, lettered for my "SA&NJ" but believe it
was originally an AC&I 0-8-0. If not an AC&I, can anyone identify it?

The other one is a 4-4-0 kitbashed from Mantua's brass "Belle of the
80s" and Mantua's brass Mogul, based on, I believe, a 2 part article
in RMC in the late 50s. Another pix, 3/4 view, appeared in RMC in May
1971, page 33.





Ray Hobin
NMRA Life # 1735; TCA # HR-78-12540; ARHS # 2421
Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
Group: vintageHO Message: 46 From: tcol01@earthlink.net Date: 3/4/2004
Subject: Speaking of MDC...
On the groups home page, Don makes this statement:

>Athearn Metal cars, MDC back when they really WERE "diecast", Walthers metal passenger cars, all are "on topic" here.

Wonder how many recall about 1959-60, MDC, whose cars were really die
cast, sides, ends, roof and base, each month advertised, in the model
zines, a different "Car of the Month" which sold for something like
$1.79 via mail order direct from them. I only recall box cars, but
there probably were others. At one time I had 2 or 3 of them...no idea
as to their ultimate fate. :(




Ray Hobin
NMRA Life # 1735; TCA # HR-78-12540; ARHS # 2421
Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
Group: vintageHO Message: 47 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/4/2004
Subject: Re: Speaking of MDC...
I THINK I may have one. It's a PRR Box, it seems the sides are a wee bit
thinner than my other MDC metal box, and it has a different door (I don't
recall the name, but it's like the Athearn door instead of the MDC "flat"
door).

I should get some pics up shortly.

Don

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----- Original Message -----
From: <tcol01@...>
To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 2:18 PM
Subject: [vintageHO] Speaking of MDC...


> On the groups home page, Don makes this statement:
>
> >Athearn Metal cars, MDC back when they really WERE "diecast", Walthers
metal passenger cars, all are "on topic" here.
>
> Wonder how many recall about 1959-60, MDC, whose cars were really die
> cast, sides, ends, roof and base, each month advertised, in the model
> zines, a different "Car of the Month" which sold for something like
> $1.79 via mail order direct from them. I only recall box cars, but
> there probably were others. At one time I had 2 or 3 of them...no idea
> as to their ultimate fate. :(
>
>
>
>
> Ray Hobin
> NMRA Life # 1735; TCA # HR-78-12540; ARHS # 2421
> Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
Group: vintageHO Message: 48 From: Rick Jones Date: 3/4/2004
Subject: Re: Speaking of MDC...
tcol01@... wrote:

> Wonder how many recall about 1959-60, MDC, whose cars were really die
> cast, sides, ends, roof and base, each month advertised, in the model
> zines, a different "Car of the Month" which sold for something like
> $1.79 via mail order direct from them. I only recall box cars, but
> there probably were others. At one time I had 2 or 3 of them...no idea
> as to their ultimate fate. :(

I have, I think, at least one gondola and one stock car from
Roundhouse that are all metal. I came away from the auction at the NMRA
convention in San Jose with a number of the all-metal roundhouse boxcars.

--

Rick Jones

You know you're getting old when sleeping on the couch makes
your back hurt.
Group: vintageHO Message: 49 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/4/2004
Subject: MDC Model of The Month
Attachments :
    I suspect this may be one of those "Models of the month" that Ray was
    talking about.

    Note the different style of door from the standard MDC models, even of
    today, and the sides seem to be thinner than other MDC I've had.

    Don

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    Group: vintageHO Message: 50 From: Jack Priller Date: 3/5/2004
    Subject: "New" cardboard & wood cars
    Was just wondering if this list would include using the sides that
    were printed in the NMRA Bulletin over wood bodies? Have a couple
    that I got as far as cutting the wood, just haven't finished them
    yet. FYI, the ones I've gotten that far are the "Delta Lines" and
    the "Gorre & Daphadid" boxcars.

    Jack Priller
    Group: vintageHO Message: 51 From: tcol01@earthlink.net Date: 3/5/2004
    Subject: "New" cardboard & wood cars
    On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 "Jack Priller" <westpac67@...> said:

    >Subject: "New" cardboard & wood cars
    >
    >Was just wondering if this list would include using the sides that
    >were printed in the NMRA Bulletin over wood bodies? Have a couple
    >that I got as far as cutting the wood, just haven't finished them
    >yet. FYI, the ones I've gotten that far are the "Delta Lines" and
    >the "Gorre & Daphadid" boxcars.

    I still have some of those NMRA Bully inserts here in front of me -
    Swift Reefer, Hither and Yonder RR, SF, NMRA Bullion plus some
    gondolas. I never throw anything out. They were issued in H0, 0, N
    and S scale sizes throughout 1977. Only one I completed was the
    "Frothingslosh Pale Stale Ale" car. I have another about 1/2
    comp[leted that's been hiding in a cigar box for some 20 years. Base
    kit for those sides were the Wabash Valley wood reefer kits.




    Ray Hobin
    NMRA Life # 1735; TCA # HR-78-12540; ARHS # 2421
    Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
    Group: vintageHO Message: 52 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/5/2004
    Subject: Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Jack Priller <westpac67@...>
    To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 8:47 AM
    Subject: [vintageHO] "New" cardboard & wood cars


    > Was just wondering if this list would include using the sides that
    > were printed in the NMRA Bulletin over wood bodies? Have a couple
    > that I got as far as cutting the wood, just haven't finished them
    > yet. FYI, the ones I've gotten that far are the "Delta Lines" and
    > the "Gorre & Daphadid" boxcars.
    >
    > Jack Priller

    Most certainly, I've got one car I started with "Bull line" NMRA Bulletin
    sides.

    I know they're a little new for what I said the list's focus was, but that
    early 1960's cutoff date is only a guidline to prevent people from asking
    about putting DCC in Proto 2000 locomotives. :-)

    Don
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    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
    Group: vintageHO Message: 53 From: Kjb80401@aol.com Date: 3/5/2004
    Subject: Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars
    In a message dated 3/5/04 1:58:34 PM Mountain Standard Time,
    don.dellmann@... writes:

    << but that early 1960's cutoff date is only a guidline to prevent people
    from asking about putting DCC in Proto 2000 locomotives. >>

    Shouldn't have brought it up. Atlas, on a German site, has already announced
    it.

    Keevan
    Group: vintageHO Message: 54 From: Will Seehorn Date: 3/5/2004
    Subject: Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars
    At 09:05 AM 3/5/04, you wrote:

    >----- Original Message -----
    >From: Jack Priller <westpac67@...>
    >To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
    >Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 8:47 AM
    >Subject: [vintageHO] "New" cardboard & wood cars
    >
    >
    > > Was just wondering if this list would include using the sides that
    > > were printed in the NMRA Bulletin over wood bodies? Have a couple
    > > that I got as far as cutting the wood, just haven't finished them
    > > yet. FYI, the ones I've gotten that far are the "Delta Lines" and
    > > the "Gorre & Daphadid" boxcars.
    > >
    > > Jack Priller
    >
    >Most certainly, I've got one car I started with "Bull line" NMRA Bulletin
    >sides.
    >
    >I know they're a little new for what I said the list's focus was, but that
    >early 1960's cutoff date is only a guidline to prevent people from asking
    >about putting DCC in Proto 2000 locomotives. :-)


    Perhaps there's hope for my cardboard car then -- I think it was Model
    Railroader's 50th anniversary, they put out a dealer display, an HO size
    boxcar with the XXth anniersary year on it -- made of cardboard: punch out
    & fold up

    Will

    PackedInnaBox, NC
    Group: vintageHO Message: 55 From: Jack Priller Date: 3/5/2004
    Subject: Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars
    > >
    > > > Was just wondering if this list would include using the sides
    that
    > > > were printed in the NMRA Bulletin over wood bodies? Have a
    couple
    > > > that I got as far as cutting the wood, just haven't finished
    them
    > > > yet. FYI, the ones I've gotten that far are the "Delta Lines"
    and
    > > > the "Gorre & Daphadid" boxcars.
    > > >
    > > > Jack Priller
    > >
    > >Most certainly, I've got one car I started with "Bull line" NMRA
    Bulletin
    > >sides.
    > >
    > >I know they're a little new for what I said the list's focus was,
    but that
    > >early 1960's cutoff date is only a guidline to prevent people
    from asking
    > >about putting DCC in Proto 2000 locomotives. :-)
    >
    >
    > Perhaps there's hope for my cardboard car then -- I think it was
    Model
    > Railroader's 50th anniversary, they put out a dealer display, an
    HO size
    > boxcar with the XXth anniersary year on it -- made of cardboard:
    punch out
    > & fold up
    >
    > Will
    >
    > PackedInnaBox, NC

    NOTE TO SELF: Check what you got before you say you got it!

    Cannot find the G&D car, did find the St. Louis, Iron Mountain and
    Southern boxcar that I DID finish. The Delta Lines car "kit" is
    where I thought it was along with the "Olde Frothenslosh Beer"
    reefer. And when I mentioned cutting the wood for these, I should
    have said that these are 'block-head' cars, one solid piece. Mine
    came from a piece of window framing that was being replaced when
    they restored what was left of the Union Depot in Mendota, IL and
    converted that into a railroad museum.

    Jack Priller
    Group: vintageHO Message: 56 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/6/2004
    Subject: Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars
    Attachments :
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Will Seehorn <wseehorn@...>
      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 7:11 PM
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] "New" cardboard & wood cars

      (text bobbited)

      > Perhaps there's hope for my cardboard car then -- I think it was Model
      > Railroader's 50th anniversary, they put out a dealer display, an HO size
      > boxcar with the XXth anniersary year on it -- made of cardboard: punch out
      > & fold up
      >
      > Will
      >
      > PackedInnaBox, NC

      I was NOT going to upload this photo. (The devil made me do it) :-)
      Don

      don.dellmann@...
      http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
      moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
      moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
      moderator:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      co-moderator: SCENERY@...
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
      Group: vintageHO Message: 57 From: Will Seehorn Date: 3/6/2004
      Subject: Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars
      At 08:54 AM 3/6/04, you wrote:

      >----- Original Message -----
      >From: Will Seehorn <wseehorn@...>
      >
      >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] "New" cardboard & wood cars
      >
      >(text bobbited)
      >
      > > Perhaps there's hope for my cardboard car then -- I think it was Model
      > > Railroader's 50th anniversary, they put out a dealer display, an HO size
      > > boxcar with the XXth anniersary year on it -- made of cardboard: punch out
      > > & fold up
      > >
      > > Will
      > >
      > > PackedInnaBox, NC
      >
      >I was NOT going to upload this photo. (The devil made me do it) :-)
      >Don
      >
      >don.dellmann@...

      Where was it that you didn't upload it? I looked in our files and the
      MRpics & didn't notice it

      Will
      Group: vintageHO Message: 58 From: Don Riley Date: 3/6/2004
      Subject: Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars
      Will,
       
      He sent it as an attachment in the email you replyed to.
      Are you reading this as email or on the group site?
      If email you should have gotten it. If on the group site then you did not get it. Yahoo does not archive the attachments with the messages anymore.
       
      Steamengine 4449

      Will Seehorn <wseehorn@...> wrote:
      >I was NOT going to upload this photo.  (The devil made me do it) :-)
      >Don
      >
      >don.dellmann@...

      Where was it that you didn't upload it? I looked in our files and the
      MRpics & didn't notice it

      Will


      Do you Yahoo!?
      Yahoo! Search - Find what you�re looking for faster.

      Group: vintageHO Message: 59 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/6/2004
      Subject: Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Will Seehorn <wseehorn@...>
      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 2:13 PM
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] "New" cardboard & wood cars


      > At 08:54 AM 3/6/04, you wrote:
      >
      > >----- Original Message -----
      > >From: Will Seehorn <wseehorn@...>
      > >
      > >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] "New" cardboard & wood cars
      > >
      > >(text bobbited)
      > >
      > > > Perhaps there's hope for my cardboard car then -- I think it was Model
      > > > Railroader's 50th anniversary, they put out a dealer display, an HO
      size
      > > > boxcar with the XXth anniersary year on it -- made of cardboard: punch
      out
      > > > & fold up
      > > >
      > > > Will
      > > >
      > > > PackedInnaBox, NC
      > >
      > >I was NOT going to upload this photo. (The devil made me do it) :-)
      > >Don
      > >
      > >don.dellmann@...
      >
      > Where was it that you didn't upload it? I looked in our files and the
      > MRpics & didn't notice it
      >
      > Will

      Right here. (if you read from the web site or get digest mode, you wouldn't
      have seen it. It was an attachment to the email)

      Don
      don.dellmann@...
      http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
      moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
      moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
      moderator:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      co-moderator: SCENERY@...
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
      Group: vintageHO Message: 60 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/6/2004
      Subject: Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars
      For those who don't get daily emails, I just started an album in the photos
      section, "Don Dellmann's stuff". The picture in question was the 25th. &
      50th. MR anniversary cars. I also added the MDC photo I shared a few days
      ago as a possible ?MDC Model of The Month" that Ray was talking about.

      Don

      don.dellmann@...
      http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
      moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
      moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
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      co-moderator: SCENERY@...
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Don Riley <steamengine4449us@...>
      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 2:31 PM
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] "New" cardboard & wood cars


      > Will,
      >
      > He sent it as an attachment in the email you replyed to.
      > Are you reading this as email or on the group site?
      > If email you should have gotten it. If on the group site then you did not
      get it. Yahoo does not archive the attachments with the messages anymore.
      >
      > Steamengine 4449
      >
      > Will Seehorn <wseehorn@...> wrote:
      > >I was NOT going to upload this photo. (The devil made me do it) :-)
      > >Don
      > >
      > >don.dellmann@...
      >
      > Where was it that you didn't upload it? I looked in our files and the
      > MRpics & didn't notice it
      >
      > Will
      Group: vintageHO Message: 61 From: Will Seehorn Date: 3/6/2004
      Subject: Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars
      At 09:51 AM 3/6/04, you wrote:

      >-
      > > >----- Original Message -----
      >
      > > >
      > > >I was NOT going to upload this photo. (The devil made me do it) :-)
      > > >Don
      > > >
      > > >don.dellmann@...
      > >
      > > Where was it that you didn't upload it? I looked in our files and the
      > > MRpics & didn't notice it
      > >
      > > Will
      >
      >Right here. (if you read from the web site or get digest mode, you wouldn't
      >have seen it. It was an attachment to the email)


      Odd, I get individual emails but it didn't show up as an attachment or as
      an inline image (but then I have Eudora set to show text only)

      Will
      Group: vintageHO Message: 62 From: Will Seehorn Date: 3/6/2004
      Subject: Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars
      At 09:57 AM 3/6/04, you wrote:
      >For those who don't get daily emails, I just started an album in the photos
      >section, "Don Dellmann's stuff". The picture in question was the 25th. &
      >50th. MR anniversary cars. I also added the MDC photo I shared a few days
      >ago as a possible ?MDC Model of The Month" that Ray was talking about.
      >
      >Don

      Nice but I think those are real cars. The one I have is all cardboard
      (including the trucks) -- non operating dealer display. If I can remember
      where it is I'll post a picture of it.

      Will
      Group: vintageHO Message: 63 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/6/2004
      Subject: Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Will Seehorn <wseehorn@...>
      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 5:24 PM
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] "New" cardboard & wood cars


      > At 09:57 AM 3/6/04, you wrote:
      > >For those who don't get daily emails, I just started an album in the
      photos
      > >section, "Don Dellmann's stuff". The picture in question was the 25th. &
      > >50th. MR anniversary cars. I also added the MDC photo I shared a few
      days
      > >ago as a possible ?MDC Model of The Month" that Ray was talking about.
      > >
      > >Don
      >
      > Nice but I think those are real cars. The one I have is all cardboard
      > (including the trucks) -- non operating dealer display. If I can remember
      > where it is I'll post a picture of it.
      >
      > Will

      I know you talked about the cardboard one, that's why I made the comment
      about "the devil made me do it" <G>.

      As far as seeing the attachment, I'd say it IS your "text only" setting.

      Don

      don.dellmann@...
      http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
      moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
      moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
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      co-moderator: SCENERY@...
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
      Group: vintageHO Message: 64 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/6/2004
      Subject: Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Will Seehorn <wseehorn@...>
      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 5:24 PM
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] "New" cardboard & wood cars


      > At 09:57 AM 3/6/04, you wrote:
      > >For those who don't get daily emails, I just started an album in the
      photos
      > >section, "Don Dellmann's stuff". The picture in question was the 25th. &
      > >50th. MR anniversary cars. I also added the MDC photo I shared a few
      days
      > >ago as a possible ?MDC Model of The Month" that Ray was talking about.
      > >
      > >Don
      >
      > Nice but I think those are real cars. The one I have is all cardboard
      > (including the trucks) -- non operating dealer display. If I can remember
      > where it is I'll post a picture of it.
      >
      > Will

      Talking about cardboard cars, Roger Aultman just posted some VERY
      interesting pictures of Varney card & Foil Milwaukee Road cabeese over on
      the Varney list. (The link to the Varney list is in our "links" section on
      our group page.)

      Don

      don.dellmann@...
      http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
      moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
      moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
      moderator:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
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      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
      Group: vintageHO Message: 65 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/6/2004
      Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
      Hello,

      This email message is a notification to let you know that
      a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vintageHO
      group.

      File : /kupeeze.jpg
      Uploaded by : roger_aultman <raul@...>
      Description : International models add Kupeeze couplers

      You can access this file at the URL

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/kupeeze.jpg

      To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit

      http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

      Regards,

      roger_aultman <raul@...>
      Group: vintageHO Message: 66 From: Jack Priller Date: 3/6/2004
      Subject: Re: New file uploaded to vintageHO
      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, vintageHO@yahoogroups.com wrote:
      >
      > Hello,
      >
      > This email message is a notification to let you know that
      > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vintageHO
      > group.
      >
      > File : /kupeeze.jpg
      > Uploaded by : roger_aultman <raul@n...>
      > Description : International models add Kupeeze couplers
      >
      > Regards,
      >
      > roger_aultman <raul@n...>

      Thank you! You have just identified the couplers in my "mystery tank
      car" kit.

      Jack Priller
      Group: vintageHO Message: 67 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/6/2004
      Subject: Re: New file uploaded to vintageHO
      Now that I see the ad, I realize that those were the couplers I took off two
      Varney cardstock day coaches I got a year or so ago. It's somewhat
      reminiscent of the Fleischmann proprietary coupler.

      Don

      don.dellmann@...
      http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
      moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
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      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 8:57 PM
      Subject: [vintageHO] New file uploaded to vintageHO


      >
      > Hello,
      >
      > This email message is a notification to let you know that
      > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vintageHO
      > group.
      >
      > File : /kupeeze.jpg
      > Uploaded by : roger_aultman <raul@...>
      > Description : International models add Kupeeze couplers
      >
      > You can access this file at the URL
      >
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/kupeeze.jpg
      >
      > To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit
      >
      > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
      >
      > Regards,
      >
      > roger_aultman <raul@...>
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
      ------
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
      >
      > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
      >
      >
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 68 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/6/2004
      Subject: Re: New file uploaded to vintageHO
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Jack Priller <westpac67@...>
      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 9:09 PM
      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: New file uploaded to vintageHO


      > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, vintageHO@yahoogroups.com wrote:
      > >
      > > Hello,
      > >
      > > This email message is a notification to let you know that
      > > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vintageHO
      > > group.
      > >
      > > File : /kupeeze.jpg
      > > Uploaded by : roger_aultman <raul@n...>
      > > Description : International models add Kupeeze couplers
      > >
      > > Regards,
      > >
      > > roger_aultman <raul@n...>
      >
      > Thank you! You have just identified the couplers in my "mystery tank
      > car" kit.
      >
      > Jack Priller

      Check out eBay auction item 3178555204 and tell me what I bought.

      BTW, for those who wonder where this sprang from, it's "list leak" from the
      Varney list.

      Don

      don.dellmann@...
      http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
      moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
      moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
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      co-moderator: SCENERY@...
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
      Group: vintageHO Message: 69 From: Roger Aultman Date: 3/6/2004
      Subject: Re: New file uploaded to vintageHO
      Don't they also resemble the Baker couplers that John Allen and Whit
      Towers used? Roger



      don.dellmann wrote:
      > Now that I see the ad, I realize that those were the couplers I took off two
      > Varney cardstock day coaches I got a year or so ago. It's somewhat
      > reminiscent of the Fleischmann proprietary coupler.
      >
      > Don
      >
      > don.dellmann@...
      > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
      > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
      > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
      > moderator:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      > co-moderator: SCENERY@...
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
      > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 8:57 PM
      > Subject: [vintageHO] New file uploaded to vintageHO
      >
      >
      >
      >>Hello,
      >>
      >>This email message is a notification to let you know that
      >>a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vintageHO
      >>group.
      >>
      >> File : /kupeeze.jpg
      >> Uploaded by : roger_aultman <raul@...>
      >> Description : International models add Kupeeze couplers
      >>
      >>You can access this file at the URL
      >>
      >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/kupeeze.jpg
      >>
      >>To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit
      >>
      >>http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
      >>
      >>Regards,
      >>
      >>roger_aultman <raul@...>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
      >
      > ------
      >
      >>Yahoo! Groups Links
      >>
      >> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
      >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
      >>
      >> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      >> vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >>
      >> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >


      --
      L
      Group: vintageHO Message: 70 From: Dave Slater Date: 3/6/2004
      Subject: Re: New file uploaded to vintageHO
      Those almost look like the early TriAng couplers from the pictures.
      Dave S.

      Jack Priller wrote:

      > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, vintageHO@yahoogroups.com wrote:
      > >
      > > Hello,
      > >
      > > This email message is a notification to let you know that
      > > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vintageHO
      > > group.
      > >
      > > File : /kupeeze.jpg
      > > Uploaded by : roger_aultman <raul@n...>
      > > Description : International models add Kupeeze couplers
      > >
      > > Regards,
      > >
      > > roger_aultman <raul@n...>
      >
      > Thank you! You have just identified the couplers in my "mystery tank
      > car" kit.
      >
      > Jack Priller
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      Group: vintageHO Message: 71 From: Jack Priller Date: 3/7/2004
      Subject: Re: New file uploaded to vintageHO
      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...>
      wrote:

      > Check out eBay auction item 3178555204 and tell me what I bought.
      >
      > BTW, for those who wonder where this sprang from, it's "list leak"
      from the
      > Varney list.
      >
      > Don

      Cannot, at least at the moment, put a name to it, but that line-
      drawing of a train on the box is stirring up the sludge at the
      bottom of my memory. I KNOW I've seen it somewhere, just cannot
      recall where.

      Jack Priller
      Group: vintageHO Message: 72 From: tcol01@earthlink.net Date: 3/7/2004
      Subject: "New" cardboard & wood cars
      On Sat, 6 Mar 2004 Sir Don of Dellman wrote:

      > From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
      >Subject: Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars
      >
      >For those who don't get daily emails, I just started an album in the photos
      >section, "Don Dellmann's stuff". The picture in question was the 25th. &
      >50th. MR anniversary cars.

      What you need to go with those cars on a siding is the Uhlrich tractor
      and Model railroader Van commemorating MR's 40th anniversary in 1974.
      Got one..and no :), not for sale.

      > I also added the MDC photo I shared a few days
      >ago as a possible ?MDC Model of The Month" that Ray was talking about.

      I located what I believe is the one I purchased in the late 50s and,
      while painted for my private SA&NJ, it appears identical to the PRR
      car you posted in the foto section. Check the base of yours and see
      if there is what appears to be a part number stamped/cast on the under
      frame.."FB-101". My sides are solid, meaning, doors do not open.


      Ray Hobin
      NMRA Life # 1735; TCA # HR-78-12540; ARHS # 2421
      Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
      Group: vintageHO Message: 73 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/7/2004
      Subject: Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <tcol01@...>
      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
      Cc: <don.dellmann@...>
      Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 10:37 AM
      Subject: "New" cardboard & wood cars


      > On Sat, 6 Mar 2004 Sir Don of Dellman wrote:
      >
      > > From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
      > >Subject: Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars
      > >
      > >For those who don't get daily emails, I just started an album in the
      photos
      > >section, "Don Dellmann's stuff". The picture in question was the 25th. &
      > >50th. MR anniversary cars.
      >
      > What you need to go with those cars on a siding is the Uhlrich tractor
      > and Model railroader Van commemorating MR's 40th anniversary in 1974.
      > Got one..and no :), not for sale.
      >
      > > I also added the MDC photo I shared a few days
      > >ago as a possible ?MDC Model of The Month" that Ray was talking about.
      >
      > I located what I believe is the one I purchased in the late 50s and,
      > while painted for my private SA&NJ, it appears identical to the PRR
      > car you posted in the foto section. Check the base of yours and see
      > if there is what appears to be a part number stamped/cast on the under
      > frame.."FB-101". My sides are solid, meaning, doors do not open.
      >
      >
      > Ray Hobin
      > NMRA Life # 1735; TCA # HR-78-12540; ARHS # 2421
      > Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]

      The PRR car has NO markings at all on the underframe, while my "regular
      line" MDC box (MKT yellow, with traditional MDC doors and sides that seem
      slightly thicker, at least they sound heavier when I tap my fingerail agains
      the side) DOES have the part number FB-101. Other than that, it's
      identical, appears to come from the same die.

      One other difference I'm not sure about, as I bought it built up, the Kadees
      are in their own boxes screwed to the floor. I don't see any scratches that
      would suggest the cast on coupler pocket was filed off, although it may well
      have been.

      'tis a puzzlement.

      Don

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      Group: vintageHO Message: 74 From: Don Riley Date: 3/7/2004
      Subject: Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars
      I have lots of MDC cars and the ones with metal floors that I have woould not hold a KD box with getting rid of there mounting system first. Same with the plastic cars. To mount a KD box you need a flat surfice. Or at least you would for the KD boxes I have.
       
      Steamengine 4449
      For discussion of the history of RRs in the Sacramento Valley of CA

      "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
      The PRR car has NO markings at all on the underframe, while my "regular
      line" MDC box (MKT yellow, with traditional MDC doors and sides that seem
      slightly thicker, at least they sound heavier when I tap my fingerail agains
      the side) DOES have the part number FB-101.  Other than that, it's
      identical, appears to come from the same die.

      One other difference I'm not sure about, as I bought it built up, the Kadees
      are in their own boxes screwed to the floor.  I don't see any scratches that
      would suggest the cast on coupler pocket was filed off, although it may well
      have been.

      'tis a puzzlement.

      Don

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      Group: vintageHO Message: 75 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/7/2004
      Subject: Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars
      This one IS flat. If the box was filed off, whoever did it did a good job.
      On the one's I built myself, I used a Kadee No. 4 in the MDC pocket.

      Don

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      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Don Riley <steamengine4449us@...>
      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 7:50 PM
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars


      > I have lots of MDC cars and the ones with metal floors that I have woould
      not hold a KD box with getting rid of there mounting system first. Same with
      the plastic cars. To mount a KD box you need a flat surfice. Or at least you
      would for the KD boxes I have.
      >
      > Steamengine 4449
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sacramentovalleyrailhistory
      > For discussion of the history of RRs in the Sacramento Valley of CA
      >
      > "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
      > The PRR car has NO markings at all on the underframe, while my "regular
      > line" MDC box (MKT yellow, with traditional MDC doors and sides that seem
      > slightly thicker, at least they sound heavier when I tap my fingerail
      agains
      > the side) DOES have the part number FB-101. Other than that, it's
      > identical, appears to come from the same die.
      >
      > One other difference I'm not sure about, as I bought it built up, the
      Kadees
      > are in their own boxes screwed to the floor. I don't see any scratches
      that
      > would suggest the cast on coupler pocket was filed off, although it may
      well
      > have been.
      >
      > 'tis a puzzlement.
      >
      > Don
      >
      > don.dellmann@...
      > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
      > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
      > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
      > moderator:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      > co-moderator: SCENERY@...
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
      >
      > ---------------------------------
      > Do you Yahoo!?
      > Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster.
      Group: vintageHO Message: 76 From: Wobbly913 Date: 3/8/2004
      Subject: Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars
      Perhaps it is a very early model intended for the builder to either supply their own mounting system or use truck mounted couplers. My earliest Athearn models used a cast metal knuckle coupler that simply screwed to the underside of the floor, there was no centering device.
       
      Wobbly913

      "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
      This one IS flat.  If the box was filed off, whoever did it did a good job.
      On the one's I built myself, I used a Kadee No. 4 in the MDC pocket.

      Don

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      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Don Riley <steamengine4449us@...>
      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 7:50 PM
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars


      > I have lots of MDC cars and the ones with metal floors that I have woould
      not hold a KD box with getting rid of there mounting system first. Same with
      the plastic cars. To mount a KD box you need a flat surfice. Or at least you
      would for the KD boxes I have.
      >
      > Steamengine 4449
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sacramentovalleyrailhistory
      > For discussion of the history of RRs in the Sacramento Valley of CA
      >
      > "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
      > The PRR car has NO markings at all on the underframe, while my "regular
      > line" MDC box (MKT yellow, with traditional MDC doors and sides that seem
      > slightly thicker, at least they sound heavier when I tap my fingerail
      agains
      > the side) DOES have the part number FB-101.  Other than that, it's
      > identical, appears to come from the same die.
      >
      > One other difference I'm not sure about, as I bought it built up, the
      Kadees
      > are in their own boxes screwed to the floor.  I don't see any scratches
      that
      > would suggest the cast on coupler pocket was filed off, although it may
      well
      > have been.
      >
      > 'tis a puzzlement.
      >
      > Don
      >
      > don.dellmann@...
      > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
      > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
      > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
      > moderator:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      > co-moderator: SCENERY@...
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
      >
      > ---------------------------------
      > Do you Yahoo!?
      > Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster.



      Yahoo! Groups Links


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      Group: vintageHO Message: 77 From: Don Riley Date: 3/8/2004
      Subject: Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars
      Why a #4?
      Is that the one with the plastic shank?
      I use #5s in the metal cars. I have heard that they can transfer electricity from car to car but I have no clue how electriciy could get in the cars anyway!
       
      Steamengine 4449

      "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
      This one IS flat.  If the box was filed off, whoever did it did a good job.
      On the one's I built myself, I used a Kadee No. 4 in the MDC pocket.

      Don

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      Group: vintageHO Message: 78 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/8/2004
      Subject: Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars
      The original MDC's had a small metal pin up the center cast into the floor.
      (You'll see the same thing on Ulrich, Athearn metal and early Varney units
      too, at one time it was the "NMRA Standard" mounting from the days of dummy
      couplers.). The No. 4 is made to fit that pocket.

      Don

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      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Don Riley <steamengine4449us@...>
      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 3:11 PM
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars


      > Why a #4?
      > Is that the one with the plastic shank?
      > I use #5s in the metal cars. I have heard that they can transfer
      electricity from car to car but I have no clue how electriciy could get in
      the cars anyway!
      >
      > Steamengine 4449
      >
      > "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
      > This one IS flat. If the box was filed off, whoever did it did a good
      job.
      > On the one's I built myself, I used a Kadee No. 4 in the MDC pocket.
      >
      > Don
      >
      > don.dellmann@...
      > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
      > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
      > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
      > moderator:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
      > co-moderator: SCENERY@...
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
      >
      > ---------------------------------
      > Do you Yahoo!?
      > Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster.
      Group: vintageHO Message: 79 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/8/2004
      Subject: Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars
      I hope you don't mind, I'm copying the list in on this......

      My MKT car is a No. 4 in the cast on pocket, with the MDC metal cover plate
      attached by two screws . In fact, I just ran downstairs and checked, I also
      have two of the Milwaukee Road Rib Side cars, all three are the same, the
      MDC cover on the MDC pocket with a number 4. All three have the FB-101 part
      number cast into the bottom. (fwiw, the MKT car and one of the rib sides
      were purchased unbuilt, so I'm the guilty party who did them that way.)

      The PRR car with what seems to be the flat floor, has a Kadee No. 5, in the
      kadee pocket, but still fastened with the two screws at the sides. This one
      DOESN'T have the part number.

      Curiouser and curiouser.

      Don

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <tcol01@...>
      To: don.dellmann <don.dellmann@...>
      Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 8:04 AM
      Subject: Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars


      > On Sun, 7 Mar 2004 12:20:03 -0600, you wrote:
      >
      > >The PRR car has NO markings at all on the underframe, while my "regular
      > >line" MDC box (MKT yellow, with traditional MDC doors and sides that seem
      > >slightly thicker, at least they sound heavier when I tap my fingerail
      agains
      > >the side) DOES have the part number FB-101. Other than that, it's
      > >identical, appears to come from the same die.
      > >
      > >One other difference I'm not sure about, as I bought it built up, the
      Kadees
      > >are in their own boxes screwed to the floor. I don't see any scratches
      that
      > >would suggest the cast on coupler pocket was filed off, although it may
      well
      > >have been.
      > >
      > >'tis a puzzlement.
      >
      > Sure is...There is no noticeable evidence of removal of any cast-on
      > coupler pocket or frame. My MKD-5s are attached via one screw in
      > center. It's so long ago, that maybe what I have is a standard MDC car
      > of that era and the one I know I purchased via an ad in MR is missing
      > or lost.
      >
      > Too bad I don't have an assorted number of MDCs to compare against
      > each other.
      >
      > BTW, since I get the digest form I miss out on some posted
      > attachments. Is there any way you could set-up a temporary pix folder
      > in the foto section that Yahoo would file attached pix and would
      > self-destruct after "x" number days?
      >
      > Ray
      Group: vintageHO Message: 80 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/8/2004
      Subject: Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Don Riley <steamengine4449us@...>
      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 3:11 PM
      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars


      > Why a #4?
      > Is that the one with the plastic shank?
      > I use #5s in the metal cars. I have heard that they can transfer
      electricity from car to car but I have no clue how electriciy could get in
      the cars anyway!
      >
      > Steamengine 4449

      As an addendum to what I posted, If you use metal wheels in metal trucks on
      a metal car with metal couplers, the potential for a short is there if two
      like cars were coupled to together with the insulated wheels on opposite
      sides.

      Generally, if I have a metal underframe car, I use either wheelsets that are
      insulated both sides (i.e. Kadee), or plastic sideframes, or a nylon bushing
      in the underframe (like the later MDC plastic cars with the metal floor) or
      a kadee 5 in it's own pocket.

      As long as you have the frame isolated from the track at at least one of
      those points, you'll be OK.

      The one thing I WON'T do is use a plastic shanked coupler, they're just too
      weak and prone to breakage.

      Don

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      Group: vintageHO Message: 81 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/8/2004
      Subject: Temporary photo album
      At the suggestion of one of our members, I am creating a "temporary" photo
      album on the group home page. Go to photos, and go the album named
      "temnporary".

      Since Yahoo doesn't archive attachments anymore, rather than send the pics
      with messages like I did, which those who use "web access" or "digest mode"
      won't be able to see, any pictures of "transient" interest pertaining to
      current discussions should be uploaded to that album. I will check it
      periodically, and pictures will be deleted after 30 days or so.

      When you post pictures there, please let the list know you've done so so we
      can go look at them.

      If you wish pictures to be archived permanently, such as pieces from your
      collections, please create your own album like ones for myself and Ray and
      upload to those.

      Don

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      Group: vintageHO Message: 82 From: Kjb80401@aol.com Date: 3/8/2004
      Subject: Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars
      In a message dated 3/8/04 5:27:19 PM Mountain Standard Time,
      don.dellmann@... writes:

      << The one thing I WON'T do is use a plastic shanked coupler, they're just too
      weak and prone to breakage. >>

      I agree with this one, I've replaced at least 50 percent of the LifeLike
      Proto couplers on recent purchases because they broke. Replaced them with Kadees.

      Keevan
      Group: vintageHO Message: 83 From: Jack Priller Date: 3/8/2004
      Subject: Re: "New" cardboard & wood cars
      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...>
      wrote:


      > As an addendum to what I posted, If you use metal wheels in metal
      trucks on
      > a metal car with metal couplers, the potential for a short is
      there if two
      > like cars were coupled to together with the insulated wheels on
      opposite
      > sides.

      > Generally, if I have a metal underframe car, I use either
      wheelsets that are
      > insulated both sides (i.e. Kadee), or plastic sideframes, or a
      nylon bushing
      > in the underframe (like the later MDC plastic cars with the metal
      floor) or
      > a kadee 5 in it's own pocket.
      >
      > As long as you have the frame isolated from the track at at least
      one of
      > those points, you'll be OK.
      >
      > Don

      I have a kit for a Model Traction Supply Company "Flat Bed Work
      Motor" that is almost all metal; came less trucks/couplers. There is
      a piece of strip wood to be used to isolate the power trucks from
      the frame, and a wood dowel cast into the pole tower to make it
      easier to drill the tower for wire if you use "live overhead" wire.
      Discussion in "Traction and Models" magazine on powering this s-m-a-
      l-l car [back before the very small powered trucks were available]
      suggested using plastic arch-bar trucks on it, with metal dummy
      couplers to get + voltage from the pole to a semi-permenantly
      attached boxcar which would have metal wheels to pick up - voltage
      from the track and be powered with a home-brew version on Athearn's
      rubber-band drive.

      Jack "The Trolleynut" Priller
      Group: vintageHO Message: 84 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/10/2004
      Subject: Hobbytown
      Need a favor.

      Anyone have a copy of the instruction sheet for a Hobbytown multi-drive E=7
      specifically kit no. A-0608?

      Also interested in a sheet on the self powered version, and a source for
      parts to convert one of these to self-propelled (got two of 'em, would like
      to get power in at least one. I don't think I need much more than the gear
      tower for one truck, I can probably fake the rest.)

      Don

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      Group: vintageHO Message: 85 From: Roger Aultman Date: 3/10/2004
      Subject: Re: Hobbytown
      Attachments :
        Hello Don Happened to have those two kits, surprissingly the scematic
        for the slave was the same as for the power unit, however there is a
        note in the directions about multi-drive. Roger



        Don Dellmann wrote:
        > Need a favor.
        >
        > Anyone have a copy of the instruction sheet for a Hobbytown multi-drive E=7
        > specifically kit no. A-0608?
        >
        > Also interested in a sheet on the self powered version, and a source for
        > parts to convert one of these to self-propelled (got two of 'em, would like
        > to get power in at least one. I don't think I need much more than the gear
        > tower for one truck, I can probably fake the rest.)
        >
        > Don
        >
        > don.dellmann@...
        > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
        > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
        > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
        > moderator:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
        > co-moderator: SCENERY@...
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >


        --
        L
        Group: vintageHO Message: 86 From: Roger Aultman Date: 3/10/2004
        Subject: Re: Hobbytown
        Forgotto mention that Hobbytown parts abd kits are available from Bear
        Locomotive Works. http://bearlocomo.zoovy.com/



        Don Dellmann wrote:
        > Need a favor.
        >
        > Anyone have a copy of the instruction sheet for a Hobbytown multi-drive E=7
        > specifically kit no. A-0608?
        >
        > Also interested in a sheet on the self powered version, and a source for
        > parts to convert one of these to self-propelled (got two of 'em, would like
        > to get power in at least one. I don't think I need much more than the gear
        > tower for one truck, I can probably fake the rest.)
        >
        > Don
        >
        > don.dellmann@...
        > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
        > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
        > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
        > moderator:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
        > co-moderator: SCENERY@...
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >


        --
        L
        Group: vintageHO Message: 87 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/10/2004
        Subject: Re: Hobbytown
        Thanks, looks like exactly what I need.

        Don
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        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Roger Aultman <raul@...>
        To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 8:33 PM
        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Hobbytown


        > Hello Don Happened to have those two kits, surprissingly the scematic
        > for the slave was the same as for the power unit, however there is a
        > note in the directions about multi-drive. Roger
        >
        >
        Group: vintageHO Message: 88 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/10/2004
        Subject: Re: Hobbytown
        Thanks again. Bookmarked.

        Don

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Roger Aultman <raul@...>
        To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 8:56 PM
        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Hobbytown


        > Forgotto mention that Hobbytown parts abd kits are available from Bear
        > Locomotive Works. http://bearlocomo.zoovy.com/
        >
        >
        >
        > Don Dellmann wrote:
        > > Need a favor.
        > >
        > > Anyone have a copy of the instruction sheet for a Hobbytown multi-drive
        E=7
        > > specifically kit no. A-0608?
        > >
        > > Also interested in a sheet on the self powered version, and a source for
        > > parts to convert one of these to self-propelled (got two of 'em, would
        like
        > > to get power in at least one. I don't think I need much more than the
        gear
        > > tower for one truck, I can probably fake the rest.)
        > >
        > > Don
        > >
        > > don.dellmann@...
        > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
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        Group: vintageHO Message: 89 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/13/2004
        Subject: MDC MEtal Boxcars
        I hope this discussion isn't getting too esoteric for most, but I got
        another die cast MDC boxcar yesterday, and the floor/coupler controversy
        thickens.

        This one definitely has a FLAT floor at the end, no cast on pocket, and no
        number cast into the floor.

        I THINK the PRR car I have is NOT a "model of the month" afterall, but just
        an earlier production.

        PLUS, looking in my >1953<! MDC catalog, I see cars pictured with BOTH
        styles of doors, the "flat plate", and the "dreadnought".

        The same catalog shows a picture of "part no. FB-101" floor with cast on
        coupler pockets with a cmall center boss for dummy couplers, MDC'sown auto
        coupler, or Kadee 4's.

        Part No. FB 103 corrugated style door
        Part No. FB 104 panel style door

        I would venture to make the following speculations.......

        The cars with the flat floor, no number and a separate coupler pocket are
        "earliest" production.

        The cars with the cast on coupler pocket with a small pin in the center are
        "middle" production.

        The cars with a large hole and boss in the center of the coupler pocket are
        "final" production, the transition to the metal floor/plastic body kits.

        Furthermore, without actually seeing one, I would be willing to wager that
        the "model of the month" were nothing more than "reissues" of regular kits
        bundled up from "new old stock", using up the leftover diecast parts in
        inventory after the switch to plastic bodies.

        Again, unless someone from MDC can explain better, these are speculations,
        but it is a plausible scenario.

        Don

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        Group: vintageHO Message: 90 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/13/2004
        Subject: Mystery Box
        Attachments :
          The "mystery box car" arrived today (along with Varney Bay Window No. 7, in
          it's original box with an instruction sheet dated 1953).

          Is this an "International"? The other end of the box only carries the word
          "japan".

          Nice trucks too, although arch bars aren't appropriate. At the risk of
          angering the "purists", the trucks and couplers are already off, getting
          Central Valleys and Kadees.

          For those who don't get daily emails, I'm also putting these in the
          "temporary" album, in a sub album named "mystery box".

          Don

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          Group: vintageHO Message: 91 From: Dave Slater Date: 3/13/2004
          Subject: Re: Mystery Box
          I still think those look like the early TriAng coupler to me, but that box is not a TriAng
          box.
          Dave S.

          Don Dellmann wrote:

          > The "mystery box car" arrived today (along with Varney Bay Window No. 7, in
          > it's original box with an instruction sheet dated 1953).
          >
          > Is this an "International"? The other end of the box only carries the word
          > "japan".
          >
          > Nice trucks too, although arch bars aren't appropriate. At the risk of
          > angering the "purists", the trucks and couplers are already off, getting
          > Central Valleys and Kadees.
          >
          > For those who don't get daily emails, I'm also putting these in the
          > "temporary" album, in a sub album named "mystery box".
          >
          > Don
          >
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          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          > Name: WP01.jpg
          > WP01.jpg Type: JPEG Image (image/jpeg)
          > Encoding: base64
          >
          > Name: WP02.jpg
          > WP02.jpg Type: JPEG Image (image/jpeg)
          > Encoding: base64
          >
          > Name: WP03.jpg
          > WP03.jpg Type: JPEG Image (image/jpeg)
          > Encoding: base64
          >
          > Name: WPBox.jpg
          > WPBox.jpg Type: JPEG Image (image/jpeg)
          > Encoding: base64
          >
          > Name: Box02.jpg
          > Box02.jpg Type: JPEG Image (image/jpeg)
          > Encoding: base64
          Group: vintageHO Message: 92 From: James B Date: 3/13/2004
          Subject: Model train show/swap March 21st Cedarburg, WI
          In addition to door prizes, a free gift awaits the first 750 paid
          admissions to the Model Railroad Show and Swap, hosted by the METRO
          Model Railroad Club of Port Washington. A sample four pack of a new
          style of miniature paintbrushes being produced by Microbrush
          International of Grafton will be given to these lucky persons. The
          event is scheduled for Sunday, March 21st at Circle B Recreation on
          Highway 60 in Cedarburg, WI. Another special event is the appearance
          of Gus Gnorski from the "Ask Gus" program on WITI-Fox 6 in Milwaukee.
          Gus will be on hand from 1 to 3 p.m. to meet everyone, talk, and sign
          autographs.
          Seven model railroad clubs will show layouts in all scales
          ranging from N gauge to 1 ½-inch scale at this year's show. The Cedar
          Creek Central of Jackson will show its progress on a large HO layout
          with many Midwestern scenes. The West Bend Ballast Scorchers will
          bring their remarkable modular N scale layout, noted for its long
          trains and the scenic depiction of the infamous Weyauwega derailment.
          The Badgerland S Gaugers will show the classic American Flyer scale
          trains as well as new S-scale trains that are currently available. The
          West Bend, Jackson and Southern will bring many examples of G scale
          equipment that is most frequently used to create outdoor garden
          railroads, and will also display some 1 ½-inch scale trains.
          The Grandkids Railroad will be on hand with its dazzling
          display of lights and sounds. The R&R's RR will show the action and
          sound of O scale Lionel railroading. In addition, METRO will be again
          showing its HO layout featuring highly detailed scenes and animations,
          which has delighted audiences for more than 20 years, and which has
          twice won the blue ribbon at the NMRA's National Train Show.
          In addition, more than 45 tables of dealers and swappers will
          be on hand to buy, sell, and trade model railroad equipment, both new
          and used. Some notable dealers are Don Manlick of DM Custom Decals who
          will be selling his GB&W and other decals, Butch's Train Shop,
          Cannonball Models, Empire Builder Hobbies, Mullet River & Southern
          Hobbies, Setco Trains, Depot Drygoods with a huge sellection of
          railroad video's, Bill Priepke of Scale Rail Graphics with his GB&W,
          WC, WSOR and other decals and bright white led's, as well as many
          other dealers. The many club members and dealers on hand will be able
          to help modelers young and old with layout design, problem solving,
          and scenic hints.
          Attendees can sign up for door prizes, which include
          railroading books and one-year subscriptions to Kalmbach Publishing's
          magazine Model Railroader. Model railroaders who want to learn how to
          make their trains run better can sign up for a free truck and coupler
          clinic to be held in April.
          This is the ninth consecutive year for the show, which has
          become the largest in southeast Wisconsin after Train Fest. The METRO
          Club is based in Port Washington and is in the process of creating a
          large HO layout in the basement of the Harbor Village. Membership in
          all of the clubs showing is open; attendees can talk to club members
          at the show for membership details. METRO can be found on the web at
          www.metrorrclub.org. There is also a map on the website on getting to
          the show
          Show hours are 10 a.m. to 4 p.m. Admission is $2 for adults; as
          always, children under 12 are admitted free when accompanied by an
          adult. Sponsors of this year's show include Microbrush International,
          Kalmbach Publishing, Port Antiques, Tires Unlimited Automotive
          Services, and Harbor Club & Village of Port Washington.

          James Bartelt
          Secretary/Show Chairman
          METRO Model Railroad Club, Ltd.
          jimbartelt@...

          METRO RR Club
          http://www.metrorrclub.org

          METRO RR CLUB SPRING SHOW 2004
          http://www.execpc.com/~barteltj/spring
          Group: vintageHO Message: 93 From: tcol01@earthlink.net Date: 3/14/2004
          Subject: MDC Car
          On Sat, 13 Mar 2004. Sir Don of Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
          spoke:

          >The same catalog shows a picture of "part no. FB-101" floor with cast on
          >coupler pockets with a cmall center boss for dummy couplers, MDC'sown auto
          >coupler, or Kadee 4's.
          >
          >Part No. FB 103 corrugated style door
          >Part No. FB 104 panel style door
          >
          >I would venture to make the following speculations.......
          >
          >The cars with the flat floor, no number and a separate coupler pocket are
          >"earliest" production.
          >
          >The cars with the cast on coupler pocket with a small pin in the center are
          >"middle" production.
          >
          >The cars with a large hole and boss in the center of the coupler pocket are
          >"final" production, the transition to the metal floor/plastic body kits.
          >
          >Furthermore, without actually seeing one, I would be willing to wager that
          >the "model of the month" were nothing more than "reissues" of regular kits
          >bundled up from "new old stock", using up the leftover diecast parts in
          >inventory after the switch to plastic bodies.

          OK...you made me do it. :) I disassembled my "Model of the Month" MDC
          car, the one with "FB-101" on the bottom. There are no part numbers
          on either side, ends or roof. Both car sides have "MDC" embossed
          within an oval. After removing the MKD couplers, I see that I did
          grind off some type of coupler pocket.

          I had other PLASTIC MDC cars but this is the only metal one, so I am
          almost positive it was the "Model of the Month" that I purchased about
          1959-1960.



          Ray Hobin
          NMRA Life # 1735; TCA # HR-78-12540; ARHS # 2421
          Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
          Group: vintageHO Message: 94 From: tcol01@earthlink.net Date: 3/14/2004
          Subject: Mystery Box Car
          "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> babbled:

          >Subject: Mystery Box
          >
          >The "mystery box car" arrived today (along with Varney Bay Window No. 7, in
          >it's original box with an instruction sheet dated 1953).
          >
          >Is this an "International"? The other end of the box only carries the word
          >"japan".
          >
          >Nice trucks too, although arch bars aren't appropriate. At the risk of
          >angering the "purists", the trucks and couplers are already off, getting
          >Central Valleys and Kadees.
          >
          >For those who don't get daily emails, I'm also putting these in the
          >"temporary" album, in a sub album named "mystery box".

          OK...looked at it and the couplers on it in the pix seem identical to
          what came on cars I purchased, both US and JNR prototype, while
          stationed in Japan 1965-1967. Box cover materiel, under the large
          label, looks somewhat familiar to that I saw in Japan hobby shops.
          Model probably was originally intended for local sale or possibly
          extras were made from US importer's order for domestic sale. Not
          supposed to do that but hey...:)

          One thing I found over there is that many US models, cars and
          locomotives, originally intended for Japanese domestic sale were
          slightly larger than 3.5mm/ft and were actually 4mm/ft. I have some
          that were manufactured by a company called Kawai, although their
          boxes were a light green.

          How about scaling out that car and see if it is a little longer and
          HIGHER than a true H0 scale model would be.

          Ray Hobin
          NMRA Life # 1735; TCA # HR-78-12540; ARHS # 2421
          Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
          Group: vintageHO Message: 95 From: tubamarx Date: 3/14/2004
          Subject: Athearn Motor in an accessory?
          Has anyone seen an accessory with an Athearn motor in it. I recently
          got my hands on a couple of motors that were part of an accessory
          piece.
          Group: vintageHO Message: 96 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/14/2004
          Subject: Re: Athearn Motor in an accessory?
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: tubamarx <sanderson@...>
          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 3:08 PM
          Subject: [vintageHO] Athearn Motor in an accessory?


          > Has anyone seen an accessory with an Athearn motor in it. I recently
          > got my hands on a couple of motors that were part of an accessory
          > piece.

          The motorizing kit for the Atlas turntable used an Athearn motor. I'm not
          sure if it still does, but one I had some years ago did.

          Don

          don.dellmann@...
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          Group: vintageHO Message: 97 From: Kjb80401@aol.com Date: 3/14/2004
          Subject: A Brass Trash Treasure
          Recently I acquired a piece of brass I've been watching for since I first
          heard about it over thirty years ago. And, at a very nominal price.

          In 1970, the first piece of brass came out of Korea. A caboose,,,,, painted
          a bright, shiny, thick coat of light orange color. (I think it was dipped in
          the paint bucket, not sprayed. The painter handled it very carefully,
          leaving only one fingerprint that I could find. I've heard that some had two.) The
          cupola tilts towards the stern and to the left. The window frames are
          crooked and not the same size. The freight doors are not opposite each other but at
          opposite ends on each side.

          It has a surprising amount of detail, crude but thoughtfully and quite
          accurately done. And oversize handrails were the norm.

          It was shortly nicknamed by someone in the reviewing public as being from the
          'Disaster Series'.

          I did strip the paint from the body, repainted it my railroad's caboose
          color, and decaled it for my mountain logging railroad. Fits right in with what
          one might expect to be running in the backwoods. I did leave the underside of
          the floor the original color as a reminder of its heritage.

          Anyone else seen one of these?

          Keevan
          Group: vintageHO Message: 98 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/14/2004
          Subject: Re: Mystery Box Car
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: <tcol01@...>
          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 10:25 AM
          Subject: [vintageHO] Mystery Box Car


          > "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> babbled:
          >
          > >Subject: Mystery Box
          > >
          > >The "mystery box car" arrived today (along with Varney Bay Window No. 7,
          in
          > >it's original box with an instruction sheet dated 1953).
          > >
          > >Is this an "International"? The other end of the box only carries the
          word
          > >"japan".
          > >
          > >Nice trucks too, although arch bars aren't appropriate. At the risk of
          > >angering the "purists", the trucks and couplers are already off, getting
          > >Central Valleys and Kadees.
          > >
          > >For those who don't get daily emails, I'm also putting these in the
          > >"temporary" album, in a sub album named "mystery box".
          >
          > OK...looked at it and the couplers on it in the pix seem identical to
          > what came on cars I purchased, both US and JNR prototype, while
          > stationed in Japan 1965-1967. Box cover materiel, under the large
          > label, looks somewhat familiar to that I saw in Japan hobby shops.
          > Model probably was originally intended for local sale or possibly
          > extras were made from US importer's order for domestic sale. Not
          > supposed to do that but hey...:)
          >
          > One thing I found over there is that many US models, cars and
          > locomotives, originally intended for Japanese domestic sale were
          > slightly larger than 3.5mm/ft and were actually 4mm/ft. I have some
          > that were manufactured by a company called Kawai, although their
          > boxes were a light green.
          >
          > How about scaling out that car and see if it is a little longer and
          > HIGHER than a true H0 scale model would be.
          >
          > Ray Hobin
          > NMRA Life # 1735; TCA # HR-78-12540; ARHS # 2421
          > Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]

          Dimensionally (within a couple thousandths), it is identical to an Athearn
          or MDC plastic box car.

          Don

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          Group: vintageHO Message: 99 From: James B Date: 3/19/2004
          Subject: Reminder Model train show/swap March 21st Cedarburg, WI
          We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

          Metro Model Railroad Clubs 9th Annual Spring Show/Swap Meet

          Date: Sunday, March 21, 2004
          Time: 10:00AM - 4:00PM CST (GMT-06:00)
          Location: Cedarburg, WI

          9th Annual Model Railroad Show and Swap is scheduled for Sunday, March
          21st at Circle B Recreation on Highway 60 in Cedarburg, WI. A sample
          four pack of a new style of miniature paintbrushes being produced by
          Microbrush International of Grafton will be given to the first 750
          paid admissions. Another special event is the appearance of Gus
          Gnorski from the "Ask Gus" program on WITI-Fox 6 in Milwaukee. Gus
          will be on hand from 1 to 3 p.m. to meet everyone, talk, and sign
          autographs. 6+ Model railroad layouts will be on display. In addition,
          more than 45 tables of dealers and swappers will be on hand to buy,
          sell, and trade model railroad equipment, both new and used. Some
          notable dealers are Don Manlick of DM Custom Decals who will be
          selling his GB&W and other decals, Butch's Train Shop, Cannonball
          Models, Empire Builder Hobbies, Mullet River & Southern Hobbies, Setco
          Trains, Depot Drygoods with a huge sellection of railroad video's,
          Bill Priepke of Scale Rail Graphics with his GB&W, WC, WSOR and other
          decals and bright white led's, as well as many other dealers.
          Attendees can sign up for door prizes, which include railroading books
          and one-year subscriptions to Kalmbach Publishing's magazine Model
          Railroader
          Show hours are 10 a.m. to 4 p.m. Admission is $2 for adults; children
          under 12 are admitted free when accompanied by an Adult. For more info
          go to:
          http://my.execpc.com/~barteltj/spring

          James Bartelt
          Secretary/Show Chairman
          METRO Model Railroad Club, Ltd.
          jimbartelt@...

          METRO RR Club
          http://www.metrorrclub.org

          METRO RR CLUB SPRING SHOW 2004
          http://www.execpc.com/~barteltj/spring
          Group: vintageHO Message: 100 From: Garry Spear Date: 3/27/2004
          Subject: FA: Various Vintage HO
          I have 3 item that are 40 or more years old on eBay this week, ending
          Sunday (3/28).

          1) EARLY VINTAGE ATHEARN SOUTHERN PACIFIC DIESEL GP-9
          http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3183450466

          2) VINTAGE METAL KIT INTERNATIONAL KIT, ACL BOX CAR NIB
          http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3183451856

          3) VINTAGE TENSHODO 4 WHEEL FREIGHT CAR TRUCKS - 3 PAIR NIB
          http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3183453998

          Thanks for your time.
          Garry
          Group: vintageHO Message: 101 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/28/2004
          Subject: Re: FA: Various Vintage HO
          Garry.

          Could you do me a favor and look at the photos in the "Mystery Box" sub
          album in the "Temporary" photo album on the list home page and tyell me if
          you think this is the same car (other than paint) as the "International" kit
          you have?

          Thanks

          Don

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          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Garry Spear <gspear@...>
          To: Vintage HO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 8:03 PM
          Subject: [vintageHO] FA: Various Vintage HO


          > I have 3 item that are 40 or more years old on eBay this week, ending
          > Sunday (3/28).
          >
          > 1) EARLY VINTAGE ATHEARN SOUTHERN PACIFIC DIESEL GP-9
          > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3183450466
          >
          > 2) VINTAGE METAL KIT INTERNATIONAL KIT, ACL BOX CAR NIB
          > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3183451856
          >
          > 3) VINTAGE TENSHODO 4 WHEEL FREIGHT CAR TRUCKS - 3 PAIR NIB
          > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3183453998
          >
          > Thanks for your time.
          > Garry
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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          >
          > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
          >
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          >
          > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          >
          >
          >
          Group: vintageHO Message: 102 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/28/2004
          Subject: New Photos
          Added a couple pictures to my photo album on the group home page.

          My MDC metal box car "collection" (up to 5 at the moment), a couple ol Marx
          and Flieschmann cars, and my Milwaukee Northern caboose fleet, consisting
          entirely of Varney C-3 bay window cabeese kits of which I'm moderately
          proud.

          Those of you who have pix of YOUR vintage still being run today, how about
          sharing them with us?

          Don

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          Group: vintageHO Message: 103 From: Garry Spear Date: 3/28/2004
          Subject: Re: FA: Various Vintage HO
          Don,

          In a word, maybe.

          The underframe seems correct for International, but I need to know if
          the floor is wood or aluminum. The car number is correct for
          International or Pacific Pike.

          My list of International / Pacific Pike cars has about 70 entries; most
          entries have reporting marks and numbers. Some entries are only kit
          numbers or car reporting marks. These cars were also sold under the
          name Pacific Pike with an aluminum car body and machine screws to mount
          the car sides to the floor. International cars have wood floors and use
          wood screws to mount the car body. Many cars were offered as kits or
          built up cars.

          These were the bottom of the price line in the early 1950s; I could
          afford them. So, I would not be surprised to see an all metal car in an
          International box.

          My major key in identifying these cars is a cast underframe; all
          underframes have the same look and feel. If the car is in the box, the
          speckled tan wrapping is a key. But these cars also come in a solid red
          box. These are the boxes I have seen, and may not be complete.

          The Texaco and Sinclair tank cars that were discussed are International.
          I have a box for one don't remember which and the numbers are 401 for
          the Texaco and 402 for the Sinclair.

          don.dellmann wrote:
          > Garry.
          >
          > Could you do me a favor and look at the photos in the "Mystery Box" sub
          > album in the "Temporary" photo album on the list home page and tyell me if
          > you think this is the same car (other than paint) as the "International" kit
          > you have?
          >
          > Thanks
          >
          > Don
          >
          > don.dellmann@...
          > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
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          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: Garry Spear <gspear@...>
          > To: Vintage HO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 8:03 PM
          > Subject: [vintageHO] FA: Various Vintage HO
          >
          >
          >
          >>I have 3 item that are 40 or more years old on eBay this week, ending
          >>Sunday (3/28).
          >>
          >>1) EARLY VINTAGE ATHEARN SOUTHERN PACIFIC DIESEL GP-9
          >>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3183450466
          >>
          >>2) VINTAGE METAL KIT INTERNATIONAL KIT, ACL BOX CAR NIB
          >>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3183451856
          >>
          >>3) VINTAGE TENSHODO 4 WHEEL FREIGHT CAR TRUCKS - 3 PAIR NIB
          >>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3183453998
          >>
          >>Thanks for your time.
          >>Garry
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
          >
          > ------
          >
          >>Yahoo! Groups Links
          >>
          >> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
          >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
          >>
          >> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          >> vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >>
          >> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          Group: vintageHO Message: 104 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/28/2004
          Subject: Re: FA: Various Vintage HO
          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Garry Spear <gspear@a...> wrote:
          > Don,
          >
          > In a word, maybe.
          >
          > The underframe seems correct for International, but I need to know
          if
          > the floor is wood or aluminum. The car number is correct for
          > International or Pacific Pike.
          >
          > My list of International / Pacific Pike cars has about 70 entries;
          most
          > entries have reporting marks and numbers. Some entries are only
          kit
          > numbers or car reporting marks. These cars were also sold under
          the
          > name Pacific Pike with an aluminum car body and machine screws to
          mount
          > the car sides to the floor. International cars have wood floors
          and use
          > wood screws to mount the car body. Many cars were offered as kits
          or
          > built up cars.

          Appearantly mine is NOT an International then.

          It DOES have an aluminum floor. There is NO wood in the car
          anywhere. In fact, the entire car appears to be aluminum (at least
          it's non magnetic). The "end blocks" are even formed sheet meatal,
          that car IS held together by 8 machine screws.

          If these were "low end" cars in their day, they were awfuly nice
          quality compared to a lot I've seen.

          I started in HO in 1959, so I was just at the "tail end" of the metal
          car era. My first kit, other than two plastic athearn cars from my
          folks to go with the Athearn train set they bought me that Christmas,
          was un Ulrich wood double sheathed box car which was pretty "heavy
          stuff" for a 12 year old <G>.

          Don
          Group: vintageHO Message: 105 From: nfmisso Date: 3/30/2004
          Subject: Mantua Sharks A & B diecast
          How many variations were there of the die-cast metal Mantua Sharks?
          I have two distinctly different castings.

          I am working on doing an ABBA set with Hobbytown drives (A multi, B
          powered) that will be painted in the Baldwin demo scheme.

          Nigel F Misso
          Belle Plaine, MN
          Group: vintageHO Message: 106 From: Mike Date: 4/3/2004
          Subject: Varney Switcher
          Hi Group,

          My name is Mike and I just joined your group. Perhaps someone out
          there can help us out. My Dad and I need a part for a metal Varney
          switch engine. We need a wheel/axle/gear assembly. A wheel broke off
          the axle, but otherwise the loco runs fine.

          Thanks in advance!

          Mike
          Group: vintageHO Message: 107 From: Diane Morgan Date: 4/4/2004
          Subject: Re: Varney Switcher
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Mike <mk74volts@...>
          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 5:56 PM
          Subject: [vintageHO] Varney Switcher


          > Hi Group,
          >
          > My name is Mike and I just joined your group. Perhaps someone out
          > there can help us out. My Dad and I need a part for a metal Varney
          > switch engine. We need a wheel/axle/gear assembly. A wheel broke off
          > the axle, but otherwise the loco runs fine.
          >
          > Thanks in advance!
          >
          > Mike

          The diesel switcher or the dockside? I thought I could help on the diesel,
          but the spare Varney wheels I have are from the F-3 and they're larger.

          It does look like you MIGHT be able to use wheel/gear sets from the MDC
          boxcab if you cut the axle ends off, but I'm not sure. Another possible
          source would be Northwest Shortline. You might also contact Lee English at
          Bowser. They have much of the old Varney tooling (My aerotrain is a Bowser
          reissue).

          Don

          don.dellmann@...
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          Group: vintageHO Message: 108 From: Garry Spear Date: 4/18/2004
          Subject: Exacta Passenger Cars
          I have a vintage passenger car (a coach) that I think is an Exacta
          model. Exacta kits were produced in the 40's and the line became (or
          was sold to) Central Lines. The car sides and ends are thin metal,
          copper or zinc coated steel, some what like Walthers.

          I want to sell the car (eBay) and would like to insure the item is an
          Exacta car before listing it for sale. From the window pattern I would
          assume the car is a model of a coach.

          Does anybody have any Exacta paper listing their cars or a car that they
          are positive is an Exacta car that the can describe (or picture) for a
          comparison?

          Garry Spear
          Group: vintageHO Message: 109 From: Nigel F Misso Date: 4/18/2004
          Subject: for sale - Mantua Shark power chassis
          I have four Mantua Shark power chassis that I am selling, and thought that I would offer them to this group first.  Three have a single power truck and Mantua couplers, the fourth is a dual power chassis with broken couplers. 
           
          e-mail me OFF list if interested:  nfmisso@...
           
          Nigel F Misso
          Belle Plaine, MN
          Group: vintageHO Message: 110 From: Galen Gallimore Date: 4/20/2004
          Subject: Selley
          Hello All,

          Anybody know if Selley made any other rolling stock besides their Old
          time passenger cars? I found an Old Time coach at a show in Ohio.
          99% complete...only 2 of the ornate platform roof brackets. I'd love
          to find an interior kit.

          I know Bowser has many of the Selley detail parts and I'm sure I
          could reconstruct the interior items from many of those parts but I'd
          sure love to know exactly what was in the interior kit. If anyone
          has a parts list that'd be great.

          Looks like a great kit...a bit less underbody detail than the Ulrich
          Sierra cars, but still nice. Looks to be 40' long. I'm not sure if
          the separate walls will be trouble to assemble. Has anyone assembled
          one of these before?

          OK, enough questions for now. Thanks for any help.

          Galen
          Group: vintageHO Message: 111 From: Roger Aultman Date: 4/21/2004
          Subject: Re: Selley
          I recently obtained a Selley coach kit, the instructions mention a
          optional C-1A interior. I believe Selley had a diecast gondola and a
          cement hopper also in thier line. Roger Aultman



          Galen Gallimore wrote:

          >Hello All,
          >
          >Anybody know if Selley made any other rolling stock besides their Old
          >time passenger cars? I found an Old Time coach at a show in Ohio.
          >99% complete...only 2 of the ornate platform roof brackets. I'd love
          >to find an interior kit.
          >
          >I know Bowser has many of the Selley detail parts and I'm sure I
          >could reconstruct the interior items from many of those parts but I'd
          >sure love to know exactly what was in the interior kit. If anyone
          >has a parts list that'd be great.
          >
          >Looks like a great kit...a bit less underbody detail than the Ulrich
          >Sierra cars, but still nice. Looks to be 40' long. I'm not sure if
          >the separate walls will be trouble to assemble. Has anyone assembled
          >one of these before?
          >
          >OK, enough questions for now. Thanks for any help.
          >
          >Galen
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          Group: vintageHO Message: 112 From: Don Dellmann Date: 5/10/2004
          Subject: I LOVE eBay
          Attachments :
            Been wanting one of these since I first saw one at the old "Hobby Horse"
            store in Waukesha, WI in 1959.

            Today it arrived

            Don

            don.dellmann@...
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            Group: vintageHO Message: 113 From: Don Riley Date: 5/10/2004
            Subject: Re: I LOVE eBay
            That car has an interesting end!
            So what would it be used for?
             
            Steamengine 4449

            Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
            Been wanting one of these since I first saw one at the old "Hobby Horse"
            store in Waukesha, WI in 1959.

            Today it arrived

            Don


            > ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg name=Ostuco.jpg


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            Group: vintageHO Message: 114 From: Diane Morgan Date: 5/11/2004
            Subject: Re: I LOVE eBay
            Just what it says, steel tubing.

            I believe the actual prototype was closer to a 50' car, the Varney is a 40'.
            It's the arch and the end railings that make it attractive. In later years
            Varney put the same lettering on their regular 40' gondola, but that didn't
            quite cut it.

            Don

            don.dellmann@...
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            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Don Riley <steamengine4449us@...>
            To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 7:44 PM
            Subject: Re: [vintageHO] I LOVE eBay


            > That car has an interesting end!
            > So what would it be used for?
            >
            > Steamengine 4449
            >
            > Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
            > Been wanting one of these since I first saw one at the old "Hobby Horse"
            > store in Waukesha, WI in 1959.
            >
            > Today it arrived
            >
            > Don
            Group: vintageHO Message: 115 From: Raymond F. Wetzel Date: 5/25/2004
            Subject: Re: New Group Member
            Hello Don and Group, Just found this Group and, while a little late,
            thought I'd join. Am pleased this train didn't leave without me and
            that I'm aboard. With as much in vintage HO as was produced, there's
            always something to learn. Likewise, I'm more than happy to be of
            some assistance if I can, and always glad to talk "old HO". I've been
            collecting older HO (pre & post War) metal and wood cars and engines
            for about 35 years and am quite fortunate to have an extensive
            collection of these gems. I collect Athearn (metal), Varney (wood and
            metal), MDC (metal), Main Line Models, Olympic Cascadian, Geo.
            Taylor, Ulrich, Silver Streak, Suydem, Globe, Ambroid, Modelmaster,
            Blue Line, American Beauty, MHP, Winton, Geo. Stock, Arbour Models,
            Thomas, Manor, Globemaster and many others. I'm grateful that I was
            able to supply Dallas J. Mallerich III with many photos and comments
            for his "Greenberg's Guide to Athearn Trains" book, and for the help
            I was able to give J.David Spanagel with his "Greenberg's Guide to
            Varney Trains" book. As an early member of the HO Gauge Collectors &
            History Special Interest Group (of NMRA), I was able to supply many
            articles for that group's "The Reporting Mark". I do not collect any
            plastic, but admire those who do, as those lines can be quite lengthy
            to collect. Well, I'm looking forward to some interesting topics.
            Regards, Ray Wetzel
            Group: vintageHO Message: 116 From: Don Riley Date: 5/25/2004
            Subject: Re: New Group Member
            Hi Ray!!
             
            Wow that must be a really cool collection!!
            I collect Athearn from all eras and I am wanting to get into classic MDC too! I do have some modern MDC models. And my dad has an ABB set of the plastic framed Athearns. They are like the old Globe Athearns. We also have some of the original Athearn passenger cars. Yes the ones with seperate sides and roofs. And a fleet of rubber band drive Fs and RDC cars!
             
            Steamengine 4449

            "Raymond F. Wetzel" <erieberk@...> wrote:
            Hello Don and Group, Just found this Group and, while a little late,
            thought I'd join. Am pleased this train didn't leave without me and
            that I'm aboard. With as much in vintage HO as was produced, there's
            always something to learn. Likewise, I'm more than happy to be of
            some assistance if I can, and always glad to talk "old HO". I've been
            collecting older HO (pre & post War) metal and wood cars and engines
            for about 35 years and am quite fortunate to have an extensive
            collection of these gems. I collect Athearn (metal), Varney (wood and
            metal), MDC (metal), Main Line Models, Olympic Cascadian, Geo.
            Taylor, Ulrich, Silver Streak, Suydem, Globe, Ambroid, Modelmaster,
            Blue Line, American Beauty, MHP, Winton, Geo. Stock, Arbour Models,
            Thomas, Manor, Globemaster and many others. I'm grateful that I was
            able to supply Dallas J. Mallerich III with many photos and comments
            for his "Greenberg's Guide to Athearn Trains" book, and for the help
            I was able to give J.David Spanagel with his "Greenberg's Guide to
            Varney Trains" book. As an early member of the HO Gauge Collectors &
            History Special Interest Group (of NMRA), I was able to supply many
            articles for that group's "The Reporting Mark". I do not collect any
            plastic, but admire those who do, as those lines can be quite lengthy
            to collect. Well, I'm looking forward to some interesting topics.
            Regards, Ray Wetzel


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            Group: vintageHO Message: 117 From: Raymond F. Wetzel Date: 5/26/2004
            Subject: Re: Friendly Note & Classic MDC
            Hi Don, Many thanks for the friendly message you left. I certainly
            remember the old Globe F-7's and the early Athearn "Hi-F" rubber band
            drive (1956) F-7's and (1958) RDC's. As I mentioned, I never
            collected plastic so never owned any of these models, which were
            pretty well detailed for their time. The all metal RDC's, by the way
            that came out in 1953, were gear driven. Incidentally, as you
            probably know, the Globe F-7's were actually Athearn F-7's. Irv
            Athearn bought out Globe in 1951 and produced (& packaged) these
            units under the old Globe name. They originally were produced from
            dies created by Silver Streak which had intended to introduce motive
            power into their line back then, but never did. As to the classic
            metal Roundhouse/MDC, I'm sure you'll enjoy collecting them once you
            get started. They're a little heavy being all cast metal, but loco's
            of their day like Varney (which could pull a house) have no trouble
            pulling a fair string of them; besides, again, they're fairly well
            detailed for their time and (I think) look great! One thing you
            should watch out for is an occassional warped roof or floor. With
            care, they can be bent back (straightened) by hand. I've never broken
            one and I've straightened quite a few, but then, I have extra pieces
            that I've picked up as junkers at the local train meets just in case.
            Regards, Ray Wetzel
            Group: vintageHO Message: 118 From: Don Riley Date: 5/26/2004
            Subject: Re: Friendly Note & Classic MDC
            You are welcome Ray.
             
            I did not realize there ever was an all metal RDC! Those must be ultra rare.
             
            Yes I am sure the metal cars must be heavy!
             
            Some of MDC's models still come with metal floors and I resently got one that was bent and I was able to bend it back into place.
             
            Steamengine 4449

            "Raymond F. Wetzel" <erieberk@...> wrote:
            Hi Don, Many thanks for the friendly message you left. I certainly
            remember the old Globe F-7's and the early Athearn "Hi-F" rubber band
            drive (1956) F-7's and (1958) RDC's. As I mentioned, I never
            collected plastic so never owned any of these models, which were
            pretty well detailed for their time. The all metal RDC's, by the way
            that came out in 1953, were gear driven. Incidentally, as you
            probably know, the Globe F-7's were actually Athearn F-7's. Irv
            Athearn bought out Globe in 1951 and produced (& packaged) these
            units under the old Globe name. They originally were produced from
            dies created by Silver Streak which had intended to introduce motive
            power into their line back then, but never did. As to the classic
            metal Roundhouse/MDC, I'm sure you'll enjoy collecting them once you
            get started. They're a little heavy being all cast metal, but loco's
            of their day like Varney (which could pull a house) have no trouble
            pulling a fair string of them; besides, again, they're fairly well
            detailed for their time and (I think) look great! One thing you
            should watch out for is an occassional warped roof or floor. With
            care, they can be bent back (straightened) by hand. I've never broken
            one and I've straightened quite a few, but then, I have extra pieces
            that I've picked up as junkers at the local train meets just in case.
            Regards, Ray Wetzel


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            Group: vintageHO Message: 119 From: Raymond F. Wetzel Date: 5/27/2004
            Subject: Re: Friendly Note & Classic MDC
            Hey Don, Yes the Athearn metal RDC's are a bit hefty. I might add
            that there were two distinct lines. The earliest ones were inclined
            to rusting, so in late '53 Athearn came out with a "RUST-RESISTANT"
            silver finish. These metal RDC's were produced unlettered (only), in
            several body styles, both powered and as an unpowered trailer, as a
            coach, passenger-baggage combine and RPO-passenger combine, etc. The
            plastic RDC's came unlettered, but also ATSF, NYNH&H and B&O. I have
            to agree, the metal RDC's do seem scarce, but as these were the only
            ones produced in a 5+ year span I would have to guess that the demand
            just didn't stay peaked. Getting back to the F-7's, I'd just like to
            clarify that although Athearn bought up the dies earlier for
            the "Silver Streak"/Globe F-Units, they only started being produced
            in 1954. With the MDC, do you plan on collecting any other metal (or
            early wood) cars? While I can't say I collect them, I do have an A-B
            set of Athearn PA's (plastic) and a number of earlier plastic Athearn
            reefers with the opening doors and hatches. Probably just because I
            like them. Regards, Ray
            Group: vintageHO Message: 120 From: Don Riley Date: 5/27/2004
            Subject: Re: Classic MDC
            Wow they made more veriety then!
            The plastic ones only come in RDC1 and RDC3.
            The plastic RDCs I have are two Santa Fe RDC3s. One powered runs but the bands are too lose to turn the wheels. I also have a New Haven RDC1 and a not lettered RDC1.
            The F7s very. But there are some powered and some not powered. Only one has bands that will actually pull it. The others are lose or missing the bands. I also have an old rubber band drive GP9 in SP bloody nose. This one was made after 1958. I know that because SP went to the bloody nose red and gray in 1958. But I am sure this one is very early. It has the pegs that hold the trucks rather then screw in trucks. The pegs had rubber washers that held the truck inplace at one time. But of course those are gone. They seem to be older then the ones with the screws. But they are just as getable. And all the RDCs seem to have the screw in trucks.
             
            Yeah I understand about the Globes.
             
            I do not own any Alco Ps. I prefer the looks an F7 or an E. Too bad Athearn did not do Es! I am a Docent with CSRM and we SP 6051 (SP E9) I would love to have a model of her in full Daylight!
             
            I am thinking I will stick with the Athearns and some MDCs.Although who knows what models will come as time passes! I go to the train shows looking for those old models so who knows what I will find.
             
            So there were reefers with opening doors!! Those were 40ft ice reefers right?
            I would like to see one of those! THey still have opening icehatches.
             
            The express Reefers do not have opening icehatches or doors. Infact sometimes the hatches have to be glued down to make it stay.
             
            Steamengine 4449

            "Raymond F. Wetzel" <erieberk@...> wrote:
            Hey Don, Yes the Athearn metal RDC's are a bit hefty. I might add
            that there were two distinct lines. The earliest ones were inclined
            to rusting, so in late '53 Athearn came out with a "RUST-RESISTANT"
            silver finish. These metal RDC's were produced unlettered (only), in
            several body styles, both powered and as an unpowered trailer, as a
            coach, passenger-baggage combine and RPO-passenger combine, etc. The
            plastic RDC's came unlettered, but also ATSF, NYNH&H and B&O. I have
            to agree, the metal RDC's do seem scarce, but as these were the only
            ones produced in a 5+ year span I would have to guess that the demand
            just didn't stay peaked. Getting back to the F-7's, I'd just like to
            clarify that although Athearn bought up the dies earlier for
            the "Silver Streak"/Globe F-Units, they only started being produced
            in 1954. With the MDC, do you plan on collecting any other metal (or
            early wood) cars? While I can't say I collect them, I do have an A-B
            set of Athearn PA's (plastic) and a number of earlier plastic Athearn
            reefers with the opening doors and hatches. Probably just because I
            like them. Regards, Ray


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            Group: vintageHO Message: 121 From: Raymond F. Wetzel Date: 5/27/2004
            Subject: Re: Classic Athearn
            Concerning the loosening of the bands in those early Athearn unit,
            I'd have to say that unfortunately, that was probably their biggest
            drawback. When new, they ran pretty good and with four rubber belts,
            they could also pull fairly well. I, too, had hoped Athearn would
            have come out with E-Units; that's also a classic design. Instead, I
            picked up an A-A set of AHM E-8's which, after fooling around with
            them a little bit, run fairly decently. I also picked up Cary E-8
            shells for Athearn and Hobbytown drives, but AHM wasn't too bad for
            their time. That original Daylight scheme would look good on them
            which, while probably not realized, is much appreciated even by
            eastern railfans who are more used to schemes such as NYC-Lightening
            Stripes, Lackawanna (and/or E-L), LV-Red, NYO&W AND CNJ-Orange &
            Blue. Hard to beat the looks of a GS-4 in those colors, though. Oh
            yeah, I picked up Lionel's HO model of that engine when it became
            available. They run pretty nice after giving them a going over. Those
            first plastic Athearn reefers were 40' Ice Bunkers, by the way, and
            the doors were stamped metal. Nice looking models. Regards, Ray
            Group: vintageHO Message: 122 From: Don Riley Date: 5/27/2004
            Subject: Re: Classic Athearn
            Yes I have heard that about the rubberband drives before. I also have an Athearn Hustler. IT and the F7 both do really well. The rest just turn there shafts. I have modern geared F7s that I use to pull the trains.
             
            I have three AHM engines. Two are Monon BL2s and the other is a Fairbanks Morse Cliner painted in SP bloody nose. They do ok.
             
            Indeed Daylight rules!!
             
            I do not have a Daylight GS4 yet. Yes I do want to get one! I do have a warbaby black GS4. It is one of Bachmann's engines. One of the ones that came in the blue and white boxes. I have heard that it is basically the old Lionel HO GS4. It runs well and looks good pulling my train of Athearn Daylight streamliners or my train of Lark heavyweight coaches.
             
            Steamengine 4449

            "Raymond F. Wetzel" <erieberk@...> wrote:
            Concerning the loosening of the bands in those early Athearn unit,
            I'd have to say that unfortunately, that was probably their biggest
            drawback. When new, they ran pretty good and with four rubber belts,
            they could also pull fairly well. I, too, had hoped Athearn would
            have come out with E-Units; that's also a classic design. Instead, I
            picked up an A-A set of AHM E-8's which, after fooling around with
            them a little bit, run fairly decently. I also picked up Cary E-8
            shells for Athearn and Hobbytown drives, but AHM wasn't too bad for
            their time. That original Daylight scheme would look good on them
            which, while probably not realized, is much appreciated even by
            eastern railfans who are more used to schemes such as NYC-Lightening
            Stripes, Lackawanna (and/or E-L), LV-Red, NYO&W AND CNJ-Orange &
            Blue. Hard to beat the looks of a GS-4 in those colors, though. Oh
            yeah, I picked up Lionel's HO model of that engine when it became
            available. They run pretty nice after giving them a going over. Those
            first plastic Athearn reefers were 40' Ice Bunkers, by the way, and
            the doors were stamped metal. Nice looking models. Regards, Ray


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            Group: vintageHO Message: 123 From: Garry Spear Date: 5/28/2004
            Subject: FA: EXACTA Passenger Car
            Interesting old passenger car (coach) for auction.

            http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5900484130

            The Exacta line of cars are from the 40s and early 50s, being sold as
            part of the Central Lines Kits in the early 50s. They are pressed and
            formed metal (like the Walthers kits) and the ends are also formed sheet
            metal. The metal is copper (brass?) plated on the out side. This
            eliminated the possibility or rust under the paint and allows the car
            body to be soldered together. There is a wood roof and floor.

            Garry Spear
            Group: vintageHO Message: 124 From: don.dellmann Date: 5/30/2004
            Subject: Re: FA: EXACTA Passenger Car
            If it was a sreamliner I'd have probably bid on it :-)

            Another old line I'm particularly fond of is Samson. Instead of being
            extruded aluminum they were made of a magnesium alloy (the same stuff "mag
            wheels" were made of).

            Don

            don.dellmann@...
            http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
            moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
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            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Garry Spear <gspear@...>
            To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 9:07 AM
            Subject: [vintageHO] FA: EXACTA Passenger Car


            > Interesting old passenger car (coach) for auction.
            >
            > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5900484130
            >
            > The Exacta line of cars are from the 40s and early 50s, being sold as
            > part of the Central Lines Kits in the early 50s. They are pressed and
            > formed metal (like the Walthers kits) and the ends are also formed sheet
            > metal. The metal is copper (brass?) plated on the out side. This
            > eliminated the possibility or rust under the paint and allows the car
            > body to be soldered together. There is a wood roof and floor.
            >
            > Garry Spear
            Group: vintageHO Message: 125 From: Garry Spear Date: 5/30/2004
            Subject: Re: FA: EXACTA Passenger Car
            How about Blue Line? I have some extra kits I'm considering selling.
            The good news is someone has bid.

            Garry

            don.dellmann wrote:
            > If it was a sreamliner I'd have probably bid on it :-)
            >
            > Another old line I'm particularly fond of is Samson. Instead of being
            > extruded aluminum they were made of a magnesium alloy (the same stuff "mag
            > wheels" were made of).
            >
            > Don

            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: Garry Spear <gspear@...>
            > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 9:07 AM
            > Subject: [vintageHO] FA: EXACTA Passenger Car
            >
            >
            >
            >>Interesting old passenger car (coach) for auction.
            >>
            >>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5900484130
            >>
            >>The Exacta line of cars are from the 40s and early 50s, being sold as
            >>part of the Central Lines Kits in the early 50s. They are pressed and
            >>formed metal (like the Walthers kits) and the ends are also formed sheet
            >>metal. The metal is copper (brass?) plated on the out side. This
            >>eliminated the possibility or rust under the paint and allows the car
            >>body to be soldered together. There is a wood roof and floor.
            >>
            >>Garry Spear
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            Group: vintageHO Message: 126 From: Diane Morgan Date: 5/30/2004
            Subject: Re: FA: EXACTA Passenger Car
            Which ones? I have a couple Blue Line 13 bedroom sleepers, could use a
            diner, baggage and observarion. (Thinking of making my "all sleeper" train
            smoothside, leaving the rib sides for the "mixed {sleepers and coaches}
            train)

            Don

            don.dellmann@...
            http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
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            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Garry Spear <gspear@...>
            To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 11:02 AM
            Subject: Re: [vintageHO] FA: EXACTA Passenger Car


            > How about Blue Line? I have some extra kits I'm considering selling.
            > The good news is someone has bid.
            >
            > Garry
            >
            > don.dellmann wrote:
            > > If it was a sreamliner I'd have probably bid on it :-)
            > >
            > > Another old line I'm particularly fond of is Samson. Instead of being
            > > extruded aluminum they were made of a magnesium alloy (the same stuff
            "mag
            > > wheels" were made of).
            > >
            > > Don
            >
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: Garry Spear <gspear@...>
            > > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
            > > Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 9:07 AM
            > > Subject: [vintageHO] FA: EXACTA Passenger Car
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >>Interesting old passenger car (coach) for auction.
            > >>
            > >>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5900484130
            > >>
            > >>The Exacta line of cars are from the 40s and early 50s, being sold as
            > >>part of the Central Lines Kits in the early 50s. They are pressed and
            > >>formed metal (like the Walthers kits) and the ends are also formed sheet
            > >>metal. The metal is copper (brass?) plated on the out side. This
            > >>eliminated the possibility or rust under the paint and allows the car
            > >>body to be soldered together. There is a wood roof and floor.
            > >>
            > >>Garry Spear
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            > ADVERTISEMENT
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
            ------
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
            >
            > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
            >
            >
            >
            Group: vintageHO Message: 127 From: wb3iqe Date: 5/30/2004
            Subject: Re: FA: EXACTA Passenger Car OR: Be careful what you wish for
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: Garry Spear <gspear@a...>
            >
            > > Interesting old passenger car (coach) for auction.
            > >
            > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5900484130
            > >

            To which Don said:

            > If it was a sreamliner I'd have probably bid on it :-)

            And that, through the mysterious workings of Fate, brought forth:

            http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
            ViewItem&category=484&item=5900635298&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

            Bob Netzlof
            Group: vintageHO Message: 128 From: Diane Morgan Date: 5/30/2004
            Subject: Re: FA: EXACTA Passenger Car OR: Be careful what you wish for
            Watching it, but with three bidders already will probably soon be out of my
            price range.

            Wonder if any of them are on the list?

            Don

            don.dellmann@...
            http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
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            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: wb3iqe <wb3iqe@...>
            To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 3:40 PM
            Subject: [vintageHO] Re: FA: EXACTA Passenger Car OR: Be careful what you
            wish for


            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: Garry Spear <gspear@a...>
            > >
            > > > Interesting old passenger car (coach) for auction.
            > > >
            > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5900484130
            > > >
            >
            > To which Don said:
            >
            > > If it was a sreamliner I'd have probably bid on it :-)
            >
            > And that, through the mysterious workings of Fate, brought forth:
            >
            > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
            > ViewItem&category=484&item=5900635298&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
            >
            > Bob Netzlof
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            > ADVERTISEMENT
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
            ------
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
            >
            > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
            >
            >
            >
            Group: vintageHO Message: 129 From: Garry Spear Date: 5/30/2004
            Subject: Re: FA: EXACTA Passenger Car OR: Be careful what you wish for
            yes,
            Garry

            Diane Morgan wrote:
            > Watching it, but with three bidders already will probably soon be out of my
            > price range.
            >
            > Wonder if any of them are on the list?
            >
            > Don
            >
            > don.dellmann@...
            > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
            > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
            > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
            > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
            > co-moderator: SCENERY@...
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: wb3iqe <wb3iqe@...>
            > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 3:40 PM
            > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: FA: EXACTA Passenger Car OR: Be careful what you
            > wish for
            >
            >
            >
            >>>----- Original Message -----
            >>>From: Garry Spear <gspear@a...>
            >>>
            >>>>Interesting old passenger car (coach) for auction.
            >>>>
            >>>>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5900484130
            >>>>
            >>
            >>To which Don said:
            >>
            >>
            >>>If it was a sreamliner I'd have probably bid on it :-)
            >>
            >>And that, through the mysterious workings of Fate, brought forth:
            >>
            >>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
            >>ViewItem&category=484&item=5900635298&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
            >>
            >>Bob Netzlof
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            >> ADVERTISEMENT
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
            >
            > ------
            >
            >>Yahoo! Groups Links
            >>
            >> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
            >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
            >>
            >> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            >> vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >>
            >> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            Group: vintageHO Message: 130 From: wb3iqe Date: 6/8/2004
            Subject: Who made it?
            Ages ago, maybe 25, maybe 30 years ago, I bought a cheap plastic
            caboose. It came from a 5 & 10 store, G. C. Murphy as I recall. It
            was a pretty decent rendition of the NYC wood cabooses with the
            rather low "Eastern" cupola. It may have been lettered for Penn
            Central, maybe NYC. It was molded in green plastic (jade green, PC
            green, that sort of green).

            It vanished somewhere in moving from one house to another. I'd like
            to find another but I can't remember who made it. I'm not sure, but I
            think it was Model Power. I'm pretty sure it wasn't Life Like or
            Bachmann but it was someone in that class.

            Can anyone here figure out what I'm talking about? Does anyone here
            know who made it?

            Bob Netzlof
            Group: vintageHO Message: 131 From: Diane Morgan Date: 6/8/2004
            Subject: Re: Who made it?
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: wb3iqe <wb3iqe@...>
            To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2004 10:58 AM
            Subject: [vintageHO] Who made it?


            > Ages ago, maybe 25, maybe 30 years ago, I bought a cheap plastic
            > caboose. It came from a 5 & 10 store, G. C. Murphy as I recall. It
            > was a pretty decent rendition of the NYC wood cabooses with the
            > rather low "Eastern" cupola. It may have been lettered for Penn
            > Central, maybe NYC. It was molded in green plastic (jade green, PC
            > green, that sort of green).
            >
            > It vanished somewhere in moving from one house to another. I'd like
            > to find another but I can't remember who made it. I'm not sure, but I
            > think it was Model Power. I'm pretty sure it wasn't Life Like or
            > Bachmann but it was someone in that class.
            >
            > Can anyone here figure out what I'm talking about? Does anyone here
            > know who made it?
            >
            > Bob Netzlof

            The low coupola and the wood sides make me think it MAY have been a Revell.

            Don

            don.dellmann@...
            http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
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            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
            Group: vintageHO Message: 132 From: wb3iqe Date: 6/9/2004
            Subject: Re: Who made it?
            --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Diane Morgan" <diane.morgan@p...>
            wrote:
            > > I'm pretty sure it wasn't Life Like or
            > > Bachmann but it was someone in that class.
            > >
            > > Can anyone here figure out what I'm talking about? Does anyone
            > > here know who made it?
            > >
            > > Bob Netzlof
            >
            > The low coupola and the wood sides make me think it MAY have been a
            Revell.
            >
            Hm. Having said "I don't know" I'm in a poor position to say "That's
            not it" but I think Revell was pretty much out of the picture by the
            time I bought it. Could be though. Wish I could remember (or better
            yet, find it.)

            Bob Netzlof
            Group: vintageHO Message: 133 From: wb3iqe Date: 6/12/2004
            Subject: Re: Who made it?
            --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "wb3iqe" <wb3iqe@r...> wrote:

            > Hm. Having said "I don't know" I'm in a poor position to
            say "That's
            > not it" but I think Revell was pretty much out of the picture...

            In the hope of clarifying what I'm talking about, here are some
            photos of the prototype (or what I think is the prototype).

            http://www.rrhistorical-2.com/cnynrhs/roster/photos/19144-01.jpg
            http://pc.smellycat.com/pics/northeastern/nyc-3.jpg
            http://lib2.clark.cc.oh.us/pc/NYC19001.jpg

            Bob Netzlof
            Group: vintageHO Message: 134 From: Don Dellmann Date: 6/13/2004
            Subject: Microsquash vs. yahoo
            Some of you may be already aware of this, but for those that aren't,
            recently there has been a major problem between Microsoft and Yahoo.

            Microsoft has decided in their infinite wisdom, to systematically block all
            email from any Yahoo group to any msn or hotmail account.

            If you have a hotmail or msn account, I would urge you to contact them to
            put an end to this blatant censorship.

            In the meantime, the only solution seems to be to access the list via web
            only (set your membership to "no emails" or get a different mail account.

            Don

            don.dellmann@...
            http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
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            Group: vintageHO Message: 135 From: redehaas Date: 6/17/2004
            Subject: New member
            Howdy to y'all,

            Im new at your group and like to introduce myself.
            I live in Holland and am interested in vintage american modeltrains.
            It started all when I was a kid and played with my dad's Fleischmann
            train of the '50s. In time I bought several other modeltrains but my
            interest fainted along the way I was at university. Last two years my
            interest in trains came back and my hobby started again...
            I picked op my hobby at Fleischmann, collecting all the metal
            locomotives of the '50s and '60s. Fleischmann cooperated with
            PennLine in the mid '50s so I lead my interest to that company. This
            was my first contact with American modeltrains. I bought on Ebay a
            PennLine Northern Pacific set with the matching Fleischmann wagons, a
            real collectors item!
            I now own almost all the PennLine loco's (not the crusader, so who
            has one????, please email me). I've got some Bowser too, the nice old
            brass Mountain, the economy Pacific and an old Challenger all with
            the old Bowser Super motor.
            Varney however has all my interest! I got almost all the post-war
            loco's. I'm expecting the very rare GG1/R1 electro-loco one of these
            days, so I'm looking forward receiving it.
            The only problem is: there's no interest for vintage american trains
            here in Europe. So I'm looking on the net, searching for other people
            who can share their interest with me...

            Rudolf de Haas
            Holland/Europe
            Group: vintageHO Message: 136 From: steamengine4449us Date: 6/17/2004
            Subject: Re: New member
            Welcome aboard Rudolf!

            I too am a collector of HO trains. I collect and operate both Athearn
            and MDC from all eras. Infact I just got 5 Athearn metal kits. They
            are not built kits from the 1950's. Very detailed!!!
            I also have several of Athearn's RDC cars. And I have lots and lots
            of there more modern models.
            I have an MDC metal hopper on the way but it is not here yet.

            Steamengine 4449
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mdcroundhouse

            --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "redehaas" <redehaas@d...> wrote:
            > Howdy to y'all,
            >
            > Im new at your group and like to introduce myself.
            > I live in Holland and am interested in vintage american modeltrains.
            > It started all when I was a kid and played with my dad's
            Fleischmann
            > train of the '50s. In time I bought several other modeltrains but
            my
            > interest fainted along the way I was at university. Last two years
            my
            > interest in trains came back and my hobby started again...
            > I picked op my hobby at Fleischmann, collecting all the metal
            > locomotives of the '50s and '60s. Fleischmann cooperated with
            > PennLine in the mid '50s so I lead my interest to that company.
            This
            > was my first contact with American modeltrains. I bought on Ebay a
            > PennLine Northern Pacific set with the matching Fleischmann wagons,
            a
            > real collectors item!
            > I now own almost all the PennLine loco's (not the crusader, so who
            > has one????, please email me). I've got some Bowser too, the nice
            old
            > brass Mountain, the economy Pacific and an old Challenger all with
            > the old Bowser Super motor.
            > Varney however has all my interest! I got almost all the post-war
            > loco's. I'm expecting the very rare GG1/R1 electro-loco one of
            these
            > days, so I'm looking forward receiving it.
            > The only problem is: there's no interest for vintage american
            trains
            > here in Europe. So I'm looking on the net, searching for other
            people
            > who can share their interest with me...
            >
            > Rudolf de Haas
            > Holland/Europe
            Group: vintageHO Message: 137 From: redehaas Date: 6/17/2004
            Subject: Re: New member
            Hi, I've a number of old Athearn boxcars too.
            Very detailed for it's age!
            I think they don't make them these quality anymore these days.
            However, in the Greenberg guide I read the Varney vintage brass cars
            are made today by a company named "Real Brass"??? But hey Greenberg
            was 1991, almost 13 years ago (how time flies...).
            I got a nice Yardhog from MDC/Roundhouse + several (unbuild) kits.
            Well lots to do in wintertime.
            Soon I'll start a major-project: the Varney Yellowstone 2-8-8-4.
            This was discribed in the MR 5/6 1949 and I'm doing it more than
            again half a century later...
            I'll put some pictures on when it's ready!

            Rudolf

            --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "steamengine4449us"
            <steamengine4449us@y...> wrote:
            > Welcome aboard Rudolf!
            >
            > I too am a collector of HO trains. I collect and operate both
            Athearn
            > and MDC from all eras. Infact I just got 5 Athearn metal kits. They
            > are not built kits from the 1950's. Very detailed!!!
            > I also have several of Athearn's RDC cars. And I have lots and lots
            > of there more modern models.
            > I have an MDC metal hopper on the way but it is not here yet.
            >
            > Steamengine 4449
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mdcroundhouse
            >
            > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "redehaas" <redehaas@d...> wrote:
            > > Howdy to y'all,
            > >
            > > Im new at your group and like to introduce myself.
            > > I live in Holland and am interested in vintage american
            modeltrains.
            > > It started all when I was a kid and played with my dad's
            > Fleischmann
            > > train of the '50s. In time I bought several other modeltrains but
            > my
            > > interest fainted along the way I was at university. Last two
            years
            > my
            > > interest in trains came back and my hobby started again...
            > > I picked op my hobby at Fleischmann, collecting all the metal
            > > locomotives of the '50s and '60s. Fleischmann cooperated with
            > > PennLine in the mid '50s so I lead my interest to that company.
            > This
            > > was my first contact with American modeltrains. I bought on Ebay
            a
            > > PennLine Northern Pacific set with the matching Fleischmann
            wagons,
            > a
            > > real collectors item!
            > > I now own almost all the PennLine loco's (not the crusader, so
            who
            > > has one????, please email me). I've got some Bowser too, the nice
            > old
            > > brass Mountain, the economy Pacific and an old Challenger all
            with
            > > the old Bowser Super motor.
            > > Varney however has all my interest! I got almost all the post-war
            > > loco's. I'm expecting the very rare GG1/R1 electro-loco one of
            > these
            > > days, so I'm looking forward receiving it.
            > > The only problem is: there's no interest for vintage american
            > trains
            > > here in Europe. So I'm looking on the net, searching for other
            > people
            > > who can share their interest with me...
            > >
            > > Rudolf de Haas
            > > Holland/Europe
            Group: vintageHO Message: 138 From: Don Riley Date: 6/17/2004
            Subject: Re: New member
            Indeed they are ultra detailed! The plastic models have the details molded on. The indevidual details are nice but will be quite a task to put on! Also they are fragile and would be destroyed in a derailment. (Yes that does seem prototypical however it would be a major pain to fix!)
             
            I do not know anything about Varney. I think there is a group out there for it. But I am not on it because I do not have any Varney models.
             
            That Yellowstone will be ultra cool when you finish it!!
             
            Steamengine 4449

            redehaas <redehaas@...> wrote:
            Hi, I've a number of old Athearn boxcars too.
            Very detailed for it's age!
            I think they don't make them these quality anymore these days.
            However, in the Greenberg guide I read the Varney vintage brass cars
            are made today by a company named "Real Brass"??? But hey Greenberg
            was 1991, almost 13 years ago (how time flies...).
            I got a nice Yardhog from MDC/Roundhouse + several (unbuild) kits.
            Well lots to do in wintertime.
            Soon I'll start a major-project: the Varney Yellowstone 2-8-8-4.
            This was discribed in the MR 5/6 1949 and I'm doing it more than
            again half a century later...
            I'll put some pictures on when it's ready!

            Rudolf


            Do you Yahoo!?
            Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out!

            Group: vintageHO Message: 139 From: Diane Morgan Date: 6/17/2004
            Subject: Re: New member
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: redehaas <redehaas@...>
            To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 8:19 AM
            Subject: [vintageHO] New member


            > Howdy to y'all,
            >
            > Im new at your group and like to introduce myself.
            > I live in Holland and am interested in vintage american modeltrains.
            > It started all when I was a kid and played with my dad's Fleischmann
            > train of the '50s. In time I bought several other modeltrains but my
            > interest fainted along the way I was at university. Last two years my
            > interest in trains came back and my hobby started again...
            > I picked op my hobby at Fleischmann, collecting all the metal
            > locomotives of the '50s and '60s. Fleischmann cooperated with
            > PennLine in the mid '50s so I lead my interest to that company. This
            > was my first contact with American modeltrains. I bought on Ebay a
            > PennLine Northern Pacific set with the matching Fleischmann wagons, a
            > real collectors item!
            > I now own almost all the PennLine loco's (not the crusader, so who
            > has one????, please email me). I've got some Bowser too, the nice old
            > brass Mountain, the economy Pacific and an old Challenger all with
            > the old Bowser Super motor.
            > Varney however has all my interest! I got almost all the post-war
            > loco's. I'm expecting the very rare GG1/R1 electro-loco one of these
            > days, so I'm looking forward receiving it.
            > The only problem is: there's no interest for vintage american trains
            > here in Europe. So I'm looking on the net, searching for other people
            > who can share their interest with me...
            >
            > Rudolf de Haas
            > Holland/Europe

            Welcome to the group, I'm sure you'll enjoy it here. If you have any
            questions, just ask. We have some very knowledgeable members here (not me
            though <G>), and all are willing to share.

            Don

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            Group: vintageHO Message: 140 From: Diane Morgan Date: 6/17/2004
            Subject: Re: New member
            Actually the Varney group died out shortly after I started this list. I
            believe the moderator couldn't keep it up and couldn't find anyone to take
            over the list.

            (speaking of Varney, have another one of the celluloid streamliners coming
            courtesy eBay).

            Don

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            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Don Riley <steamengine4449us@...>
            To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 4:05 PM
            Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: New member


            > Indeed they are ultra detailed! The plastic models have the details molded
            on. The indevidual details are nice but will be quite a task to put on! Also
            they are fragile and would be destroyed in a derailment. (Yes that does seem
            prototypical however it would be a major pain to fix!)
            >
            > I do not know anything about Varney. I think there is a group out there
            for it. But I am not on it because I do not have any Varney models.
            >
            > That Yellowstone will be ultra cool when you finish it!!
            >
            > Steamengine 4449
            Group: vintageHO Message: 141 From: Don Riley Date: 6/17/2004
            Subject: Re: New member
            That is a shame! Seems to me the Varney group was started at about the same time as this group.
             
            Those celluloid streamliners must be really cool!
             
            Steamengine 4449

            Diane Morgan <diane.morgan@...> wrote:
            Actually the Varney group died out shortly after I started this list.  I
            believe the moderator couldn't keep it up and couldn't find anyone to take
            over the list.

            (speaking of Varney, have another one of the celluloid streamliners coming
            courtesy eBay).

            Don

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            Group: vintageHO Message: 142 From: Don Dellmann Date: 6/24/2004
            Subject: Speaking of couplers
            Attachments :
              A month or so ago we had a conversation on some of the strange couplers that
              were around in the vintage era.

              Got my latest eBay box today, can anyone identify these puppies?
              (For those that don't get daily emails, I also put them in the "temporary"
              album in the photos section on the group web page.)

              Don

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              Group: vintageHO Message: 143 From: Roger Aultman Date: 6/25/2004
              Subject: Re: Speaking of couplers
              I have one that looks something like that, once heard it refered to as a "Warton"?   Roger Aultman


              Don Dellmann wrote:
              A month or so ago we had a conversation on some of the strange couplers that
              were around in the vintage era.
              
              Got my latest eBay box today, can anyone identify these puppies?
              (For those that don't get daily emails, I also put them in the "temporary"
              album in the photos section on the group web page.)
              
              Don
              
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              Group: vintageHO Message: 144 From: redehaas Date: 7/1/2004
              Subject: Re: Speaking of couplers
              Hi Roger,

              Could it be a Winton?
              I put a picture in the temporary file of a Winton Challenger.

              Regards,
              Rudolf


              --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Roger Aultman <raul@n...> wrote:
              > I have one that looks something like that, once heard it refered to
              as a
              > "Warton"? Roger Aultman
              >
              >
              > Don Dellmann wrote:
              >
              > >A month or so ago we had a conversation on some of the strange
              couplers that
              > >were around in the vintage era.
              > >
              > >Got my latest eBay box today, can anyone identify these puppies?
              > >(For those that don't get daily emails, I also put them in
              the "temporary"
              > >album in the photos section on the group web page.)
              > >
              > >Don
              > >
              > >don.dellmann@p...
              > >http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
              > >moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
              > >moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
              > >moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
              > >co-moderator: SCENERY@Y...
              > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
              > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
              ------
              > >
              > >
              > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
              ------
              > >
              Group: vintageHO Message: 145 From: redehaas Date: 7/1/2004
              Subject: To all Varney fans!
              Hi to all Varney fans,

              Shame the Varneypage doesn't exist anymore!
              I'm working on a Varney page on my private website.
              So for those who are into Varney, please take a look.
              I made a link to it at the linkspage.
              With this page, I want to describe the technical part of Varney.
              I also want to display some interesting models.
              It's still under serious construction so don't be to hard on critics.
              I appreciate if there's some external knowledge we can share, so I
              can update the page.
              The next few weeks I'll work on this page in my spare time, so check
              it out often!

              Hope you enjoy it!
              Rudolf
              Group: vintageHO Message: 146 From: Kjb80401@aol.com Date: 7/1/2004
              Subject: Re: To all Varney fans!
              FYI,

              I have a Walthers Doodlebug acquired used in 1955 that has as its motor what
              appears to be the 'Belt/Brute'. Runs smooth as silk at prototypical speeds.

              Keevan
              Group: vintageHO Message: 147 From: Roger Aultman Date: 7/1/2004
              Subject: Re: Speaking of couplers
              Hello Rudolph The box looks to be in excellent condition, I do not
              recall that Winton made couplers.
              Roger Aultman


              redehaas wrote:

              >Hi Roger,
              >
              >Could it be a Winton?
              >I put a picture in the temporary file of a Winton Challenger.
              >
              >Regards,
              >Rudolf
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              Group: vintageHO Message: 148 From: redehaas@dds.nl Date: 7/1/2004
              Subject: Re: Speaking of couplers
              Ehh, I didn't either.
              I was just referring to the brand "Winton"
              You named "Warton" but I never heart of it (my fault).
              Just forget about it...

              Do you like Varney trains?
              I just put my Varney site at the VintageHO-links.
              So if you're interested, please take a look.

              Regards,
              Rudolf



              Citeren Roger Aultman <raul@...>:

              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Hello Rudolph    The box looks to be in excellent condition, I do not
              >
              > recall that Winton made couplers. 
              >
              > Roger Aultman
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > redehaas wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > >Hi Roger,
              >
              > >
              >
              > >Could it be a Winton?
              >
              > >I put a picture in the temporary file of a Winton Challenger.
              >
              > >
              >
              > >Regards,
              >
              > >Rudolf
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > 
              >
              > >
              >
              > >Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > 
              >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
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              Group: vintageHO Message: 149 From: Roger Aultman Date: 7/1/2004
              Subject: Unusual coupler
              I have uploaded a picture of a differnt H-0 coupler, not sure if it is
              the same as Don's. Roger Aultman
              Group: vintageHO Message: 150 From: don.dellmann Date: 7/1/2004
              Subject: Re: Unusual coupler
              It's not. Mine is jest a rather nodescript chunk of metal that does nothing
              to couple the cars together. The actual coupling is done by the spring
              hooks, which hook over the wires sticking out the side.

              I've taken a few off the cars, I'll see if I can do some better pictures
              tonight.

              Don

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              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Roger Aultman <raul@...>
              To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 1:30 PM
              Subject: [vintageHO] Unusual coupler


              > I have uploaded a picture of a differnt H-0 coupler, not sure if it is
              > the same as Don's. Roger Aultman
              Group: vintageHO Message: 151 From: redehaas Date: 7/1/2004
              Subject: Re: To all Varney fans!
              Hi Keevan,

              Your Doodlebug is probably powered by a Walthers U-619 Power Truck
              like I send you on the picture. I will put it in the photo page.
              It looks like the "Brute" but it has a Pitman DC-60 motor and not
              made by Varney.
              Varney had the patented right to cal their DC-71 Diesels "Brute".

              Bye,
              Rudolf


              --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Kjb80401@a... wrote:
              > FYI,
              >
              > I have a Walthers Doodlebug acquired used in 1955 that has as its
              motor what
              > appears to be the 'Belt/Brute'. Runs smooth as silk at
              prototypical speeds.
              >
              > Keevan
              Group: vintageHO Message: 152 From: raymarinaccio Date: 7/2/2004
              Subject: (no subject)
              Hi,
              I am from Dewey Arizona. I've been a model railroader since the
              early 60s.
              I have a small collection of vintage HO trains. Some can be seen in
              this link.
              http://www.the-gauge.com/showthread.php?t=6411

              I also enjoy kit-bashing and scratch-building.
              http://www.the-gauge.com/showthread.php?t=6376
              I look forward to sharing info and tips with the group.
              Ray
              Group: vintageHO Message: 153 From: seekingho Date: 7/2/2004
              Subject: Thank You
              Hello

              Thank You for allowing me to join your group. I am an avid Athearn
              collector, which I have been collecting since the early 60's. I have
              posted a link here to my homepage. This will give you an idea of what
              I collect.

              http://groups.msn.com/HoSeeker

              Larry
              Group: vintageHO Message: 154 From: seekingho Date: 7/2/2004
              Subject: Re: Who made it?
              --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "wb3iqe" <wb3iqe@r...> wrote:
              > Ages ago, maybe 25, maybe 30 years ago, I bought a cheap plastic
              > caboose. It came from a 5 & 10 store, G. C. Murphy as I recall. It
              > was a pretty decent rendition of the NYC wood cabooses with the
              > rather low "Eastern" cupola. It may have been lettered for Penn
              > Central, maybe NYC. It was molded in green plastic (jade green, PC
              > green, that sort of green).
              >
              > It vanished somewhere in moving from one house to another. I'd like
              > to find another but I can't remember who made it. I'm not sure, but
              I
              > think it was Model Power. I'm pretty sure it wasn't Life Like or
              > Bachmann but it was someone in that class.
              >
              > Can anyone here figure out what I'm talking about? Does anyone here
              > know who made it?
              >
              > Bob Netzlof

              I maybe wrong but the pictures of this type of caboose reminds me of
              the roundhouse kits. Just a suggestion. If you would like I can
              send you picture of one of these roundhouse cabooses. They seem to
              have similiar low profile cupola's.
              Group: vintageHO Message: 155 From: Raymond F. Wetzel Date: 7/2/2004
              Subject: Re: Speaking of Couplers
              Hi Rudolph, I just check all my Winton kits and none of them come
              with couplers of any sort. That's not to say that Winton did not
              market that coupler separately, but I've never seen them on any
              Winton equipment. I have both the Winton Allegheny (they didn't make
              a Challenger) and the Berkshire kits, as well as a separate, boxed
              Allegheny tender kit and a built up of each engine. There are no
              couplers in the kits and no mention of couplers in the plans or on
              the lists of included items. So I think we can rule that mfgr out.
              I've never seen them, so have no idea of what they are. Ray
              Group: vintageHO Message: 156 From: Raymond F. Wetzel Date: 7/2/2004
              Subject: Re: Varney Website
              Rudolph, Just went up to your new Varney page. Looks real good so
              far. Its going to take a little work as you well know, but . . .
              little by little. We do need a Varney web site as many of us collect
              those pieces. On the Greenberg/Varney guide you have on the site,
              that's a nice comprehensive work of what Varney produced, and really
              impossible for it to go "out of date" as it deals with a finite
              production run of all Varney's models that of course are no longer
              made. The only thing that's changing as years go by is the valuations
              put on the models at that time. I'm please to have been able to
              assist Dave Spanagel at the time, in one capacity or another, in the
              production of the book as it was really fun. Feel free to let me know
              if you need any technical advice on Varney for your page; buy the
              looks of it so far, it looks like you have a pretty good handle on
              it. Regards, Ray
              Group: vintageHO Message: 157 From: don.dellmann Date: 7/2/2004
              Subject: Re: Thank You
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: seekingho <seekingho@...>
              To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 10:54 AM
              Subject: [vintageHO] Thank You


              > Hello
              >
              > Thank You for allowing me to join your group. I am an avid Athearn
              > collector, which I have been collecting since the early 60's. I have
              > posted a link here to my homepage. This will give you an idea of what
              > I collect.
              >
              > http://groups.msn.com/HoSeeker
              >
              > Larry

              Glad to have you aboard. Looks like you have quite a nixe collection.

              I do have to ask though, do you actually operated most of your equipment?

              Don

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              Group: vintageHO Message: 158 From: seekingho Date: 7/2/2004
              Subject: Reply to Don
              Don

              The items at my homepage are just what I collect. Guess you can
              call me an Athearn packrat. I do have many other train cars that I
              have operated over the years. Many of which I built from scratch cast
              metal kits such as Bowser Engines, Ulrich hoppers, and Roundhouse ore
              cars. I really like running the metal cars, engines, and steam era
              equipment.

              Larry
              Group: vintageHO Message: 159 From: don.dellmann Date: 7/3/2004
              Subject: Re: Reply to Don
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: seekingho <seekingho@...>
              To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 7:48 PM
              Subject: [vintageHO] Reply to Don


              >
              >
              > Don
              >
              > The items at my homepage are just what I collect. Guess you can
              > call me an Athearn packrat. I do have many other train cars that I
              > have operated over the years. Many of which I built from scratch cast
              > metal kits such as Bowser Engines, Ulrich hoppers, and Roundhouse ore
              > cars. I really like running the metal cars, engines, and steam era
              > equipment.
              >
              > Larry

              I can't say I'm a serious collector, I just love to get whatever I can of
              the vintage equipment of my youth (I started in HO in 1959) and get them out
              on the layout.

              I always feel a little sad when I see the stuff locked up in glass cases.
              It's just like going to a car show and watching them roll a '58 Edsel out of
              a closed trailer. It should be DRIVEN!

              Don

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              Group: vintageHO Message: 160 From: Don Dellmann Date: 7/4/2004
              Subject: Mystery coupler again
              I got a better picture of the "mystery couplers", it's "Mystery Cuoupler 03"
              in the temporary album.

              They work by the hook looping over the wire sticking out the side of the
              "knuckle". Uncoupling appears to be via a ramp that lifts the bottom "arm"
              (the wire with the coil in the end) up while leaving slack between the cars.

              Don

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              Group: vintageHO Message: 161 From: Roger Aultman Date: 7/4/2004
              Subject: Re: Mystery coupler again
              That is a strange one, do you think it was made as a commercial item?
              Roger Aultman


              -- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...> wrote:
              > I got a better picture of the "mystery couplers", it's "Mystery
              Cuoupler 03"
              > in the temporary album.
              >
              > They work by the hook looping over the wire sticking out the side of the
              > "knuckle". Uncoupling appears to be via a ramp that lifts the
              bottom "arm"
              > (the wire with the coil in the end) up while leaving slack between
              the cars.
              >
              > Don
              >
              > don.dellmann@p...
              > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
              > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
              > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
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              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
              Group: vintageHO Message: 162 From: Dave Slater Date: 7/4/2004
              Subject: Re: Mystery coupler again
              The oly thing I have seen close to that is a TriAng coupler but they don't hve all th extra "wires".. Could it be a custom or home made unit???
              Dave S.

              Roger Aultman wrote:

               That is a strange one, do you think it was made as a commercial item?
              Roger Aultman
               

              -- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...> wrote:
              > I got a better picture of the "mystery couplers", it's "Mystery
              Cuoupler 03"
              > in the temporary album.
              >
              > They work by the hook looping over the wire sticking out the side of the
              > "knuckle".  Uncoupling appears to be via a ramp that lifts the
              bottom "arm"
              > (the wire with the coil in the end) up while leaving slack between
              the cars.
              >
              > Don
              >
              > don.dellmann@p...
              > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
              > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
              > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
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              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
               

              Group: vintageHO Message: 163 From: don.dellmann Date: 7/4/2004
              Subject: Re: Mystery coupler again
              I think so. The wires are too uniform to be "home made", and the hanger is
              a white metal casting that looks like it was made for this coupler.

              Don

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Roger Aultman <raul@...>
              To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 3:24 PM
              Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery coupler again


              > That is a strange one, do you think it was made as a commercial item?
              > Roger Aultman
              >
              >
              > -- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...> wrote:
              > > I got a better picture of the "mystery couplers", it's "Mystery
              > Cuoupler 03"
              > > in the temporary album.
              > >
              > > They work by the hook looping over the wire sticking out the side of the
              > > "knuckle". Uncoupling appears to be via a ramp that lifts the
              > bottom "arm"
              > > (the wire with the coil in the end) up while leaving slack between
              > the cars.
              > >
              > > Don
              > >
              > > don.dellmann@p...
              > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
              > > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
              > > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
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              Group: vintageHO Message: 164 From: don.dellmann Date: 7/4/2004
              Subject: Re: Mystery coupler again
              As I mentioned in my other reply. the uniformity of the bends in the wire,
              and the castings, crude as they are, have a "manufactured" look to them. I
              got about five cars (I bid on the package because I wanted ONE of the cars,
              one of the Varney celluloid side blue pullmans for the the train I'm
              assembling, and another coach side in blue which I'm going to duplicate and
              replace the grey combine sides on the one car I have that doesn't match).
              All of them had this.

              From the vintage of the other cars (two metal side cars, a coach and an
              observation that appear to be early Walthers, a cardstock coach and a
              cardstock Borden reefer) I'm guessing these could even be pre-war.

              Don


              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Dave Slater <daslater@...>
              To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 3:40 PM
              Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Mystery coupler again


              > The oly thing I have seen close to that is a TriAng coupler but they don't
              hve all th
              > extra "wires".. Could it be a custom or home made unit???
              > Dave S.
              >
              > Roger Aultman wrote:
              >
              > > That is a strange one, do you think it was made as a commercial item?
              > > Roger Aultman
              > >
              > >
              > > -- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...>
              wrote:
              > > > I got a better picture of the "mystery couplers", it's "Mystery
              > > Cuoupler 03"
              > > > in the temporary album.
              > > >
              > > > They work by the hook looping over the wire sticking out the side of
              the
              > > > "knuckle". Uncoupling appears to be via a ramp that lifts the
              > > bottom "arm"
              > > > (the wire with the coil in the end) up while leaving slack between
              > > the cars.
              > > >
              > > > Don
              > > >
              > > > don.dellmann@p...
              > > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
              > > > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
              > > > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
              > > > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
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              > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
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              ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
              ----


              > The oly thing I have seen close to that is a TriAng coupler but they don't
              hve all th extra "wires".. Could it be a custom or home made unit???
              > Dave S.
              > Roger Aultman wrote:
              >
              > That is a strange one, do you think it was made as a commercial item?
              > Roger Aultman
              >
              > -- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...>
              wrote:
              > > I got a better picture of the "mystery couplers", it's "Mystery
              > Cuoupler 03"
              > > in the temporary album.
              > >
              > > They work by the hook looping over the wire sticking out the side of
              the
              > > "knuckle". Uncoupling appears to be via a ramp that lifts the
              > bottom "arm"
              > > (the wire with the coil in the end) up while leaving slack between
              > the cars.
              > >
              > > Don
              > >
              > > don.dellmann@p...
              > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
              > > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
              > > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
              > > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
              > > co-moderator: SCENERY@Y...
              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
              >
              >
              >
              >
              Group: vintageHO Message: 165 From: Garry Spear Date: 7/5/2004
              Subject: Re: Subject: Mystery coupler again
              Try Megow.

              I have some cars from my fathers HO layout with these couplers on them.

              Garry Spear


              > Message: 1
              > Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2004 08:10:50 -0500
              > From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
              > Subject: Mystery coupler again
              >
              > I got a better picture of the "mystery couplers", it's "Mystery Cuoupler 03"
              > in the temporary album.
              >
              > They work by the hook looping over the wire sticking out the side of the
              > "knuckle". Uncoupling appears to be via a ramp that lifts the bottom "arm"
              > (the wire with the coil in the end) up while leaving slack between the cars.
              >
              > Don
              >
              Group: vintageHO Message: 166 From: Roger Aultman Date: 7/5/2004
              Subject: Re: Subject: Mystery coupler again
              Attachments :
                Garry's comment about Megow lit the bulb in my dim brain, I had a Megow kit with couplers.  Pis attached.
                Roger Aultman



                Garry Spear wrote:
                Try Megow.
                
                I have some cars from my fathers HO layout with these couplers on them.
                
                Garry Spear
                
                
                  
                Message: 1         
                   Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2004 08:10:50 -0500
                   From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
                Subject: Mystery coupler again
                
                I got a better picture of the "mystery couplers", it's "Mystery Cuoupler 03"
                in the temporary album.
                
                They work by the hook looping over the wire sticking out the side of the
                "knuckle".  Uncoupling appears to be via a ramp that lifts the bottom "arm"
                (the wire with the coil in the end) up while leaving slack between the cars.
                
                Don
                
                    
                
                
                
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                Group: vintageHO Message: 167 From: don.dellmann Date: 7/5/2004
                Subject: Re: Subject: Mystery coupler again
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Roger Aultman <raul@...>
                To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 1:15 PM
                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Subject: Mystery coupler again


                > Garry's comment about Megow lit the bulb in my dim brain, I had a Megow
                > kit with couplers. Pis attached.
                > Roger Aultman

                That's not them.

                We may never know :-(

                Don

                don.dellmann@...
                http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
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                Group: vintageHO Message: 168 From: steamengine4449us Date: 7/5/2004
                Subject: Athearn in a bag??
                On Ebay there is a listing for 37 Athearn metal cars in bags. Why
                would Athearn be in a bag?
                They remind me of the Menzy (spelling) models I have heard tell of
                somewhere. Story of the Menzies is that they were sold by some
                company called Menzy who bought them in bulk from Athearn after
                Athearn quit selling metal kits. Seems Athearn sold Menzy tons of
                parts that Menzy put into bags and sold. I have never seen a picture
                that was for sure Menzy but these cars fit the discription. So how
                would I know for sure?

                Steamengine 4449
                Group: vintageHO Message: 169 From: don.dellmann Date: 7/6/2004
                Subject: Re: Athearn in a bag??
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: steamengine4449us <steamengine4449us@...>
                To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 11:00 PM
                Subject: [vintageHO] Athearn in a bag??


                > On Ebay there is a listing for 37 Athearn metal cars in bags. Why
                > would Athearn be in a bag?
                > They remind me of the Menzy (spelling) models I have heard tell of
                > somewhere. Story of the Menzies is that they were sold by some
                > company called Menzy who bought them in bulk from Athearn after
                > Athearn quit selling metal kits. Seems Athearn sold Menzy tons of
                > parts that Menzy put into bags and sold. I have never seen a picture
                > that was for sure Menzy but these cars fit the discription. So how
                > would I know for sure?
                >
                > Steamengine 4449

                Have an item number so we can see?

                It's true that through the 1970's and 80's, and well into the 90's
                "G.F.Menzies" sold reissued Athearn metal kits, and many of the ones I've
                seen were in plastic bags with a lable on the top.

                I don't know if they were "new old stock" or if Menzies continued to make
                them from Athearn tooling. I suspect the latter since they were available
                for much too long and much to common to be "leftovers".

                In fact Menzies was not the first. For a short time in the late 1960's they
                were sold as "Pacific HO" (who also had Silver Streak in the interim between
                Tru-Scale and Walthers) and/or "G&G Hobby Supply".

                Don

                don.dellmann@...
                http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
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                Group: vintageHO Message: 170 From: Rick Jones Date: 7/6/2004
                Subject: Re: Athearn in a bag??
                don.dellmann wrote:
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: steamengine4449us <steamengine4449us@...>
                > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 11:00 PM
                > Subject: [vintageHO] Athearn in a bag??
                >
                >
                >
                >>On Ebay there is a listing for 37 Athearn metal cars in bags. Why
                >>would Athearn be in a bag?
                >>They remind me of the Menzy (spelling) models I have heard tell of
                >>somewhere. Story of the Menzies is that they were sold by some
                >>company called Menzy who bought them in bulk from Athearn after
                >>Athearn quit selling metal kits. Seems Athearn sold Menzy tons of
                >>parts that Menzy put into bags and sold. I have never seen a picture
                >>that was for sure Menzy but these cars fit the discription. So how
                >>would I know for sure?
                >>
                >>Steamengine 4449
                >
                >
                > Have an item number so we can see?
                >
                > It's true that through the 1970's and 80's, and well into the 90's
                > "G.F.Menzies" sold reissued Athearn metal kits, and many of the ones I've
                > seen were in plastic bags with a lable on the top.
                >
                > I don't know if they were "new old stock" or if Menzies continued to make
                > them from Athearn tooling. I suspect the latter since they were available
                > for much too long and much to common to be "leftovers".
                >
                > In fact Menzies was not the first. For a short time in the late 1960's they
                > were sold as "Pacific HO" (who also had Silver Streak in the interim between
                > Tru-Scale and Walthers) and/or "G&G Hobby Supply".

                I have a few dozen of these metal Athearn/Menzies kits that I bought
                from a fellow that had closed his hobby shop and was selling the stock
                out of his garage. It's true that they were packaged in plastic bags
                with a label folded over the top and stapled. The last I heard they were
                still being sold by Bowser under their English's Model Supply name.

                --

                Rick Jones

                Is a hooker from Boise an Ida-ho'?
                Group: vintageHO Message: 171 From: Wobbly913 Date: 7/6/2004
                Subject: Re: Athearn in a bag??
                I too saw this item on Ebay and wondered what was up with all of the kits being in plastic bags rather than boxes.  The item number is  5908075706. 
                Is there any collectible value in these kits? 
                 
                Wobbly913

                "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote:

                Have an item number so we can see?

                It's true that through the 1970's and 80's, and well into the 90's
                "G.F.Menzies" sold reissued Athearn metal kits, and many of the ones I've
                seen were in plastic bags with a lable on the top.

                I don't know if they were "new old stock" or if Menzies continued to make
                them from Athearn tooling.  I suspect the latter since they were available
                for much too long and much to common to be "leftovers".

                In fact Menzies was not the first.  For a short time in the late 1960's they
                were sold as "Pacific HO" (who also had Silver Streak in the interim between
                Tru-Scale and Walthers) and/or "G&G Hobby Supply".

                Don

                don.dellmann@...
                http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
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                Group: vintageHO Message: 172 From: Dave Slater Date: 7/6/2004
                Subject: Re: Athearn in a bag??
                HMMMMM I don't see any wheel with these kits BUT I did see an old "Maple Leaf" CN box car in there. I may have to think on these even if they are a little "old" for my modeling era..
                Dave S..

                Wobbly913 wrote:

                 I too saw this item on Ebay and wondered what was up with all of the kits being in plastic bags rather than boxes.  The item number is  5908075706.Is there any collectible value in these kits? Wobbly913

                "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote:

                 
                Have an item number so we can see?

                It's true that through the 1970's and 80's, and well into the 90's
                "G.F.Menzies" sold reissued Athearn metal kits, and many of the ones I've
                seen were in plastic bags with a lable on the top.

                I don't know if they were "new old stock" or if Menzies continued to make
                them from Athearn tooling.  I suspect the latter since they were available
                for much too long and much to common to be "leftovers".

                In fact Menzies was not the first.  For a short time in the late 1960's they
                were sold as "Pacific HO" (who also had Silver Streak in the interim between
                Tru-Scale and Walthers) and/or "G&G Hobby Supply".

                Don

                don.dellmann@...
                http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
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                Group: vintageHO Message: 173 From: Larry Date: 7/6/2004
                Subject: Re: Athearn in a bag??
                In my opinion these are the menzie kits, which were produced by
                athearn. They do not come with trucks. Have seen these bagged kits
                at train shows and they do make nice models. Only problems I have
                had with these kits is the cast metal truck bolsters break real
                easy. The metal they used becomes very weak with age.

                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "steamengine4449us"
                <steamengine4449us@y...> wrote:
                > On Ebay there is a listing for 37 Athearn metal cars in bags. Why
                > would Athearn be in a bag?
                > They remind me of the Menzy (spelling) models I have heard tell of
                > somewhere. Story of the Menzies is that they were sold by some
                > company called Menzy who bought them in bulk from Athearn after
                > Athearn quit selling metal kits. Seems Athearn sold Menzy tons of
                > parts that Menzy put into bags and sold. I have never seen a
                picture
                > that was for sure Menzy but these cars fit the discription. So how
                > would I know for sure?
                >
                > Steamengine 4449
                Group: vintageHO Message: 174 From: Raymond F. Wetzel Date: 7/7/2004
                Subject: Re: Athearn in a bag??
                From your discription, I thought these were G.F. Menzies kits. After
                going up to the eBay site, I am positive that's what they are,
                especially as even the yellow heavy paper labels on the bags is what
                Menzies used. They are definitely not original Athearn as Athearn
                never packaged their kits in plastic bags; no two ways about that.
                Menzies bought the dies from Athearn to make all the metal parts
                (ends, roofs, etc.), however, Menzies' first several runs definitely
                used original (pre-painted) Athearn sides from leftover stock. They
                included these roadnames -- FEC, RI (CRI&P), SP Overland, Timken-Red,
                Timken-Yellow, CN, AT&SF El Capitan, AT&SF Chief, GN-Orange, and GN-
                Red (#11213) in the 40' AAR boxcars and WFEX-GN and Swift 40'
                reefers. Menzies' later production roadnames were screen-printed by
                them and included roads never produced by Athearn. These included SL-
                SF, L&N, SP&S, TP&W, TH&B, G.A.E.X., D&RGW-Cookie Box, NYC-Early
                Bird, C&NW, EL, NYNH&H (in a roadnumber never produced by Athearn),
                GN-Aluminum and GN-Red (#18603, & #18664) in the 40' AAR boxcars, NP
                in the 40' round-roof double door boxcar, NP and TAG in the 50' round-
                roof double-door boxcars and R.E.X., UP/SP-Overland and PFE-Aluminum
                in the 40' reefers. Menzies never reproduced Athearn flat cars or
                tank cars. They did however, reproduce several Athearn O Scale
                boxcars and reefers, along with a company named Reynolds. Hope this
                helps to straighten out Athearn & Menzies. Also, as I mentioned a
                while back, there was a company named D.J. Baker which took over
                production of the Menzies HO metal line and screen-printed other
                roadnames. Ray
                Group: vintageHO Message: 175 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 7/7/2004
                Subject: Re: Athearn in a bag??
                Rich, It would not surprise me if perhaps Menzies was the first ones to reproduce the Athearn metal line, although I could be wrong. I do have some of the Pacific HO kits and they are 50' plug door reefers (what they call the "Golden Spike Series"); not what Athearn made. Also have a number of early Walthers kits -- these have 3-ply basswood sides and come with decals; have earlier Walthers kits -- these are made of thick-sided extruded aluminum and again, not at all like Athearn. Bowser did reproduce metal cars using the Varney dies (have those as well), and more recently Bowser/English is (or was) making plastic cars. I haven't seen anything resembling Athearn metal before Menzies came out, but maybe(?) Ray
                Group: vintageHO Message: 176 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 7/7/2004
                Subject: Re: Athearn in a bag??
                Wobbly, Yes these Menzies kits are collectable and , of course, do have a collector value. They are worth about 3/4 the value of an Athearn kit. One drawback is that they didn't come boxed. However most collectors of metal cars try to obtain any(all) of the metal lines that were produced if they can get them. Ray
                Group: vintageHO Message: 177 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 7/7/2004
                Subject: Re: Athearn in a bag??
                Rick, There were certain roadnames that Athearn had a fair number of leftovers from -- some names more than others. For a short while before Menzies bought Athearn's metal line, these car SIDES could be bought loose, without kits. Some roads were in short supply (which are highly collectable) which Menzies never obtained -- too few of these side-sets were available, and a good number of roads had a large leftover inventory which is what Menzies bought and marketed in their beginning. Ray
                Group: vintageHO Message: 178 From: Rick Jones Date: 7/7/2004
                Subject: Re: Athearn in a bag??
                Raymond F. Wetzel wrote:

                > Menzies never reproduced Athearn flat cars or tank cars.

                I don't know about the tank cars but they did produce the flat cars.
                I have 3 flat cars from Menzies - one which I have already assembled and
                2 which are still in the original packaging. They're nice in that they
                come with wood decking material similar to the very thin plywood that
                Central Valley used for their kits.

                --

                Rick Jones

                The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad
                http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/

                You know you're getting old when dinner and a movie is the whole
                date instead of the beginning of one.
                Group: vintageHO Message: 179 From: Rick Jones Date: 7/7/2004
                Subject: Re: Athearn in a bag??
                erieberk@... wrote:

                > Wobbly, Yes these Menzies kits are collectable and , of course, do have a
                > collector value. They are worth about 3/4 the value of an Athearn kit. One
                > drawback is that they didn't come boxed. However most collectors of metal cars try
                > to obtain any(all) of the metal lines that were produced if they can get them.

                Well, I plan to build all of the ones that I have and run them on
                the layout. I guess taking a few more dozen out of circulation just
                increases the value of everyone else's, right? :-{)

                --

                Rick Jones

                The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad
                http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/

                Why are a wise man and a wise guy opposites?
                Group: vintageHO Message: 180 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 7/7/2004
                Subject: Re: Athearn in a bag??
                Hi Rick, As I wrote that about the Athearn flat cars, I thought I might have been mistaken. I should have looked at my own collection. I don't remember exactly what Menzies came out with in flat cars, but I can picture them in the bags. I believe they may have reissued the KCS bulkhead flat. I'm going to have to check out my own collection ( fortunately, have all of the Athearn and Menzies metal), and get back to the group to let you know what flats Menzies had. I have them squirreled away in the attic, and its been some years since I looked at them last. I do know for a fact that the tank cars were never reissued. Ray
                Group: vintageHO Message: 181 From: Rick Jones Date: 7/7/2004
                Subject: Re: Athearn in a bag??
                erieberk@... wrote:

                > Hi Rick, As I wrote that about the Athearn flat cars, I thought I might have
                > been mistaken. I should have looked at my own collection. I don't remember
                > exactly what Menzies came out with in flat cars, but I can picture them in the
                > bags. I believe they may have reissued the KCS bulkhead flat. I'm going to have
                > to check out my own collection ( fortunately, have all of the Athearn and
                > Menzies metal), and get back to the group to let you know what flats Menzies had.
                > I have them squirreled away in the attic, and its been some years since I
                > looked at them last. I do know for a fact that the tank cars were never reissued.

                A quick look at the one that I built shows it to be a C&NW flat.
                Checking the box that has all of the yet-to-be-built metal kits finds
                that I have 3 more, not 2 as I had originally mentioned. Those other 3
                are another C&NW, a Clinchfield and a Grand Trunk flat.

                --

                Rick Jones

                The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad
                http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/

                If lawyers are disbarred and clergymen defrocked, doesn't it follow that:
                1. electricians can be delighted
                2. musicians denoted
                3. cowboys deranged
                4. models deposed
                5. tree surgeons debarked and,
                6. dry cleaners depressed?
                Group: vintageHO Message: 182 From: Raymond F. Wetzel Date: 7/8/2004
                Subject: Re: Athearn in a bag ??
                Rick, and other metal collectors: As promised, I just got done
                checking the Menzies part of my collection. Looks like I shouldn't
                have tried to recall from memory yesterday, just what they produced.
                I find that there were a good number of items left out. For you metal
                collectors, here is a more complete listing of what Menzies produced.
                First of all, six flat cars; the C&NW, Clinchfield and Grand Trunk
                (all 40') which you have, and Southern, Erie and UP (all 50'). They
                did not re-produce the KCS bulkhead flat. In 40' AAR boxcars, in
                addition to what I listed yesterday, they re-issued these following
                Athearn cars: PM, SOO, Monon, Southern, ACL, C&O Luminous, CP, ATSF
                Scout, ATSF Grand Canyon, ATSF Super Chief, LV, SP-Overnight, IC, RI-
                Rocket, WP-Feather, NP, UP, NYC Pacemaker, B&O Sentinel and SAL. In
                these same cars, they also issued Ann Arbour and their own (not
                Athearn) DL&W. In 40' and 50' round-roof double-door boxcars, they
                also re-issued N&W, DT&I, PRR and SAL. In the 50' AAR double-door
                boxcars they re-issued Monon and ATSF. Lastly, in additional 40'
                reefers, they produced PFE-SP/UP Orange, R.E.X. (REA), IC Yellow and
                MDT Orange. I don't think I left anything out, but a word on the
                labels. These were folded over the top of the bag; the front
                said "Athearn Metal Line" and the back had "G.F.Menzies", with their
                address. In addition to mostly yellow labels, they did use pink and
                blue occasionally. Happy hunting! Ray
                Group: vintageHO Message: 183 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 7/13/2004
                Subject: trains
                Hi guys;    My feind give  to me, A.T.S.F.  Baggage-mail   STD    Pass car ready to Athearn.   Athearn Pass  trucks 6-wheel talgo are METAL  !!!!!!!       I Gilbert metal flat car (national Car Co.   P-16D782}.    Whan was Made??????    Ray Lorts



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                Group: vintageHO Message: 184 From: don.dellmann Date: 7/13/2004
                Subject: Re: trains
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Raymond Lorts Sr <RaymondLorts@...>
                To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 11:00 PM
                Subject: [vintageHO] trains


                > Hi guys; My feind give to me, A.T.S.F. Baggage-mail STD Pass car
                ready to Athearn. Athearn Pass trucks 6-wheel talgo are METAL !!!!!!!
                I Gilbert metal flat car (national Car Co. P-16D782}. Whan was
                Made?????? Ray Lorts

                The Athearn baggage-mail could be anytime from ca. 1960/61 to last Tuesday.
                (I believe the trucks are metal to this day.) A better date could be
                established if we know are the coupler covers screwed on or the metal snap
                on clips?

                The Gilbert flat car is most likely NO newer than about 1961. Could be much
                older, I'm not an expert on Gilbert. (I'm not an expert on ANYTHING for
                that matter <G>).

                Don

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                Group: vintageHO Message: 185 From: Dave Slater Date: 7/13/2004
                Subject: Re: trains
                Do,
                I dissagree there, you are an "expert" at keeping this group 99.99% spam free and for that we are truly thankfull..
                Dave S.

                "don.dellmann" wrote:
                (I'm not an expert on ANYTHING for that matter <G>).
                Don

                Group: vintageHO Message: 186 From: Roger Aultman Date: 7/13/2004
                Subject: Re: trains
                Probably in the 50's.   Roger Aultman



                Raymond Lorts Sr wrote:
                Hi guys;    My feind give  to me, A.T.S.F.  Baggage-mail   STD    Pass car ready to Athearn.   Athearn Pass  trucks 6-wheel talgo are METAL  !!!!!!!       I Gilbert metal flat car (national Car Co.   P-16D782}.    Whan was Made??????    Ray Lorts



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                Group: vintageHO Message: 187 From: Larry Date: 7/13/2004
                Subject: Re: trains
                Hi Ray

                I would guess the six wheeled Athearn passenger cars are from the
                early 1960's. I believe thay discontinued the metal trucks in
                either the late 60's or early 70's. As for the gilbert flatcar,
                probably produced from the late 40's or early 50's. This is just a
                guess on the gilbert.

                Larry




                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Raymond Lorts Sr
                <RaymondLorts@y...> wrote:
                > Hi guys; My feind give to me, A.T.S.F. Baggage-mail STD
                Pass car ready to Athearn. Athearn Pass trucks 6-wheel talgo are
                METAL !!!!!!! I Gilbert metal flat car (national Car Co. P-
                16D782}. Whan was Made?????? Ray Lorts
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ---------------------------------
                > Do you Yahoo!?
                > Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out!
                Group: vintageHO Message: 188 From: oahurailway Date: 7/20/2004
                Subject: Re: Original "Dockside" w/ Pittman 6V Motor....
                Hi Varney fans,

                Is there any printed information, or pix of the original pre-
                war "Dockside" 1941-42? The electrical pick up strip on the left side
                took it's power from the left rear driver only. Unlike the post war
                models that had a bronze wire whisker that rubbed on both left
                drivers. The power was supplied by a Pittman 3 pole armature 6V open
                frame motor with a different tube/spring/pin brush assembly than the
                later 12V versions too. There's a brief description of
                this "Dockside" {415} on pgs 49-50 of the Greenberg's Guide to Varney
                Trains. Thanks alot!
                Group: vintageHO Message: 189 From: redehaas Date: 7/20/2004
                Subject: Re: Original "Dockside" w/ Pittman 6V Motor....
                Hi, I found this picture of an old (1941?) Docksider manual.
                I've put it in the photpage.
                Bye!


                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "oahurailway" <two.peaks@v...>
                wrote:
                > Hi Varney fans,
                >
                > Is there any printed information, or pix of the original pre-
                > war "Dockside" 1941-42? The electrical pick up strip on the left
                side
                > took it's power from the left rear driver only. Unlike the post war
                > models that had a bronze wire whisker that rubbed on both left
                > drivers. The power was supplied by a Pittman 3 pole armature 6V
                open
                > frame motor with a different tube/spring/pin brush assembly than
                the
                > later 12V versions too. There's a brief description of
                > this "Dockside" {415} on pgs 49-50 of the Greenberg's Guide to
                Varney
                > Trains. Thanks alot!
                Group: vintageHO Message: 190 From: Raymond F. Wetzel Date: 7/20/2004
                Subject: Re: Original "Dockside" w/Pittman 6V Motor
                You missed the 1941 drawing of the pre-War Dockside, similar to the
                one that Redehass sent in (an exploded view), in the Greenberg Guide
                to Varney Trains book on page 14. As the model actually was produced
                in early 1942, it is not found in any of the pre-War catalogs
                (1939, '40 and '41); there was no catalog produced in 1942. Ads came
                out for this model (check page 16, same Guide book), but do not show
                an exploded view. Probably the only exploded view available to the
                modeler was this one that came as an instruction sheet with the kit
                box. Ray
                Group: vintageHO Message: 191 From: oahurailway Date: 7/20/2004
                Subject: Re: Original "Dockside" w/Pittman 6V Motor
                That's it!That's it! Boy, you guys are quick! I did see the sketch
                on pg 14 of "the book", but it wasen't too clear, & it didn't show
                the motor very well at all.

                In the posted file pix, the motor is sitting upside down, & you
                can just barely make out that weird tube/spring/pin brush tensioner.
                Are there any clearer pix of the motor, and did the motor have a
                number? Mine doesn't even say Pittman on it. If later in the day,
                it's only 6:30AM here in the Islands, I'll try to post some pix of
                the one I have. Thanks everybody!!!

                Best regards,
                Sarita
                Group: vintageHO Message: 193 From: oahurailway Date: 7/20/2004
                Subject: 1942 Varney Dockside 6V
                Hi everybody,

                I've put three pix in the Photos file of my 1942 vintage
                Varney "Dockside" with the Pittman 6V motor. The motor frame is 1
                3/4" long. The pix can be enlarged, so you can see the unique brush
                tensioner & different electrical pick up.

                Best regards,

                Sarita
                Group: vintageHO Message: 194 From: Rudolf de Haas Date: 7/24/2004
                Subject: Re: 1942 Varney Dockside 6V
                Hi Sarita,

                I've put some interesting data on my Website regarding the Pittman
                motor history. Hope you can find your information.

                http://www.redehaas.dds.nl/Varney.htm

                Rudolf


                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "oahurailway" <two.peaks@v...>
                wrote:
                > Hi everybody,
                >
                > I've put three pix in the Photos file of my 1942 vintage
                > Varney "Dockside" with the Pittman 6V motor. The motor frame is 1
                > 3/4" long. The pix can be enlarged, so you can see the unique brush
                > tensioner & different electrical pick up.
                >
                > Best regards,
                >
                > Sarita
                Group: vintageHO Message: 195 From: oahurailway Date: 7/24/2004
                Subject: Re: 1942 Varney Dockside 6V
                Hi Rudolf,

                Thanks for the most comprehensive Pittman motor information!
                Your Varney website is really comming along very well!

                Best regards

                Sarita
                Group: vintageHO Message: 196 From: cripete Date: 8/23/2004
                Subject: Universal Drafting's "Celastic"
                Is there anyone who remembers the sheets of this
                material which was used to form scenery contours. It was
                sold in the 50s and late 40s, and was widely used. It is
                still used in some industrial moldmaking where the solvents
                can be handled safely.
                In the home it sure cleared the sinuses, and demanded all
                the windows be opened. Considering the speed and ease which
                it did its job, it is a shame that no more respiratorily
                friendly version of it could have been found.
                Good-Luck, Peter Boylan
                Group: vintageHO Message: 197 From: Diane Morgan Date: 8/23/2004
                Subject: Re: Universal Drafting's "Celastic"
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: cripete <pjboylanboylan@...>
                To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 4:18 AM
                Subject: [vintageHO] Universal Drafting's "Celastic"


                >
                >
                > Is there anyone who remembers the sheets of this
                > material which was used to form scenery contours. It was
                > sold in the 50s and late 40s, and was widely used. It is
                > still used in some industrial moldmaking where the solvents
                > can be handled safely.
                > In the home it sure cleared the sinuses, and demanded all
                > the windows be opened. Considering the speed and ease which
                > it did its job, it is a shame that no more respiratorily
                > friendly version of it could have been found.
                > Good-Luck, Peter Boylan

                Not familiar with it at all. :-( How did it work?

                Don

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                Group: vintageHO Message: 198 From: cripete Date: 8/26/2004
                Subject: Re: Universal Drafting's "Celastic"
                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Diane Morgan" <diane.morgan@p...>
                wrote:

                > Subject: [vintageHO] Universal Drafting's "Celastic"
                > Is there anyone who remembers the sheets of this
                > > material which was used to form scenery contours.... It is
                > > still used in some industrial moldmaking where the solvents
                > > can be handled safely... it is a shame that no more
                respiratorily friendly version of it could have been found.
                > > Good-Luck, Peter Boylan


                > Not familiar with it at all. : How did it work?
                > Don


                Don:
                You combined the plasticene (sort of) sheeting with
                celastic solvent. The solvent could be MEK, or something
                similar. It came out of WW2 developments in bonding various
                man made products such as fiberglas, phenolics, plywoods, and
                other stuff,
                Carmen Webster's catalogs from early '50s
                (all scale and 'HO'later) had it, and so did local hobby shops.
                The 1952 catalog, in the 'LANDSCAPING' section, has United
                Drafting Product's kits with a varying number of 3'x3' sheets
                and what they described as a "softener". Seven bucks for a
                single sheet, and twelve for two sheets of "celastic " material.
                Produces a hard shell , in amazingly quick time. Not cheap
                by that time's standards, but very little aimed at
                model railiroadig was then. It also filled the air
                with unhealthy fumes while the solvent evaporated.
                I don't know what happened to Universal Drafting,
                but they probably merged into some other company.
                Primatily, they had it for customers making architectural
                and site models , with the model railroaders being a
                bonus to them.

                It was widely used industrially in molding, as
                well as for bonding sheets of diverse materials together.
                I think that epoxies,and urethanes, have replaced it there,
                but here are a few sites discussing its use in theatrical
                products.

                Go to the "site map", here for information:
                < http://www.schenz.com >

                Here is one as part of a www How-To-Do-It for costumers:
                < http://www.costumes.org/advice/costcraftsmanual/tmpjk11.htm >

                This is a company (ATLAS INTERNATIONAL) selling supplies to
                makers of orthotics and other medical prosthesis, and if you
                put "celastic" in the search engine in turns up the material in
                rolls.
                < http://www.atlasortho.com >

                Indeed, there are probably tool and moldmakers using
                these materials still, but I don't know where to obtain it.
                As you can see they are not user friendly in the same way
                as current materials that model railroaders use. Now in a
                fire, I do not think any current foam, or other lightweight
                material is any better than this was in terms of the fumes
                toxicity.

                I'm sure there are plenty of model railroaders who recall
                using this , or similar products.
                Remember, back then those using plaster, that was a hell of
                a lot more heavy for basic hill contours and the like, would
                put long strand asbestos fiber in it, or bought the kind
                of wall plaster that had the asbestos in it.

                Good-Luck, Peter Boylan
                Group: vintageHO Message: 199 From: Don Dellmann Date: 8/29/2004
                Subject: Car I.D.
                A friend gave me another "fixer-upper" yesterday, can anyone ID?

                It's the ubiquitous "AAR" rivited side box car, Cardstock sides, sheet
                metal
                floor (bent in a channel to make straight side sills) and roof, cast
                underframe, ends and roofwalk.

                I guessing "Globe", but anyone have any better ideas?

                Don

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                Group: vintageHO Message: 200 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 8/29/2004
                Subject: Re: Car I.D.
                Don, Not a Globe, but an early (pre-War) Mantua. The floor roof and ends are aluminum. Ray
                Group: vintageHO Message: 201 From: don.dellmann Date: 8/29/2004
                Subject: Re: Car I.D.
                Thanks. I'd never seen the metal floor before. Everything else I have of
                that vintage is wood.

                Don

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                ----- Original Message -----
                From: <erieberk@...>
                To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 8:34 PM
                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Car I.D.


                > Don, Not a Globe, but an early (pre-War) Mantua. The floor roof and ends
                are
                > aluminum. Ray
                >
                Group: vintageHO Message: 202 From: Larry Date: 8/30/2004
                Subject: Re: Car I.D.
                Hello Don

                Could you post a picture of this box car? I would like to see what
                it looks like. If this is an old Mantua as it was identified by Ray,
                did it come in the small blue and white box? I have seen a few of
                these at a couple of train shows. Good luck on your fix-up project,
                these boxcars look hard to assemble.

                Larry

                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...>
                wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                > A friend gave me another "fixer-upper" yesterday, can anyone ID?
                >
                > It's the ubiquitous "AAR" rivited side box car, Cardstock sides,
                sheet
                > metal
                > floor (bent in a channel to make straight side sills) and roof,
                cast
                > underframe, ends and roofwalk.
                >
                > I guessing "Globe", but anyone have any better ideas?
                >
                > Don
                >
                > don.dellmann@p...
                > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                > co-moderator: SCENERY@Y...
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                Group: vintageHO Message: 203 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 8/30/2004
                Subject: Re: Car I.D.
                Don, Larry's query concerning the familiar (back then) blue w/white Mantua boxes, just jogged my memory a bit more, so I thought I better take a trip up to the attic where my collection is stored. Mantua (and it sounds like that's what you have) also continued making these car kits post-War up until about 1950 or so. These kits had the familiar blue & white boxes; I believe the pre-War rolling stock box kits were wider and flatter and not blue & white. I also have to correct myself in regards to material used: While the bottoms where thin formed aluminum, the roofs were brass. The sub-sides (under the pre-printed cardstock) were aluminum on the reefers, but were brass on the box cars. The ends were cast metal (zamac -- lead/zinc). Ray
                Group: vintageHO Message: 204 From: don.dellmann Date: 8/30/2004
                Subject: Re: Car I.D.
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Larry <seekingho@...>
                To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 8:52 AM
                Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Car I.D.


                > Hello Don
                >
                > Could you post a picture of this box car? I would like to see what
                > it looks like. If this is an old Mantua as it was identified by Ray,
                > did it come in the small blue and white box? I have seen a few of
                > these at a couple of train shows. Good luck on your fix-up project,
                > these boxcars look hard to assemble.

                I'll try and get some up tonight. I don't have the box, it was given to me
                as a "junker" out of a friend's scrap box.

                Don

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                Group: vintageHO Message: 205 From: don.dellmann Date: 8/30/2004
                Subject: Re: Car I.D.
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: <erieberk@...>
                To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 11:02 AM
                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Car I.D.


                > Don, Larry's query concerning the familiar (back then) blue w/white Mantua
                > boxes, just jogged my memory a bit more, so I thought I better take a trip
                up to
                > the attic where my collection is stored. Mantua (and it sounds like that's
                > what you have) also continued making these car kits post-War up until
                about 1950
                > or so. These kits had the familiar blue & white boxes; I believe the
                pre-War
                > rolling stock box kits were wider and flatter and not blue & white. I also
                > have to correct myself in regards to material used: While the bottoms
                where thin
                > formed aluminum, the roofs were brass. The sub-sides (under the
                pre-printed
                > cardstock) were aluminum on the reefers, but were brass on the box cars.
                The
                > ends were cast metal (zamac -- lead/zinc). Ray
                >

                I did a little closer inspection, the roof is indeed brass, the floor is
                aluminum (at least it's non-magnetic), and there IS metal underlayer to the
                sides. They don't appear to be brass however, rather aluminum. I don't
                have the box, if I did the question wouldn't have come up <G>.

                I'll get some pictures up tonight.

                Don

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                Group: vintageHO Message: 206 From: don.dellmann Date: 8/30/2004
                Subject: Re: Car I.D.
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: don.dellmann <don.dellmann@...>
                To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 10:44 AM
                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Car I.D.


                >
                > I did a little closer inspection, the roof is indeed brass, the floor is
                > aluminum (at least it's non-magnetic), and there IS metal underlayer to
                the
                > sides. They don't appear to be brass however, rather aluminum. I don't
                > have the box, if I did the question wouldn't have come up <G>.
                >
                > I'll get some pictures up tonight.
                >
                > Don

                Pictures are in the "temporary" album on the group website

                Disregard the 8' door. The original sides have 6' openings, but I couldn't
                find any 6' doors in the scrap box to fit.

                Don

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                Group: vintageHO Message: 207 From: steamengine4449us Date: 9/10/2004
                Subject: powering those globes?
                Did Globe make a powered F7? I ask because I have several plastic
                framed Globe models and I have some more on order. But I am thinking
                about powering them. I have one that had been powered with a Lindsay
                drive truck. Problem is the truck does not work! The frame of the
                engine has all the modifications so if I found another power truck
                (motor is part of the truck) I could make the one F work. But those
                drives seem to be rare! (Yes I looked on Ebay that is where the one I
                have came from)
                So I am wondering how Globe powered them.

                Steamengine 4449
                Group: vintageHO Message: 208 From: Roger Aultman Date: 9/10/2004
                Subject: Re: powering those globes?
                Globe-Athearn made a diecast chassis assenbled with 2-56 screws, they
                could run well. My first H-0 diesel was one of these
                their biggest problems were brass wheels ands the fact they picked up
                current with two wheels and returned with two, as all diesels of that
                time did. Pix at:


                http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/ao.jpg



                steamengine4449us wrote:

                >Did Globe make a powered F7? I ask because I have several plastic
                >framed Globe models and I have some more on order. But I am thinking
                >about powering them. I have one that had been powered with a Lindsay
                >drive truck. Problem is the truck does not work! The frame of the
                >engine has all the modifications so if I found another power truck
                >(motor is part of the truck) I could make the one F work. But those
                >drives seem to be rare! (Yes I looked on Ebay that is where the one I
                >have came from)
                >So I am wondering how Globe powered them.
                >
                >Steamengine 4449
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                Group: vintageHO Message: 209 From: Wobbly913 Date: 9/10/2004
                Subject: Re: powering those globes?
                 
                 
                I recently bought, on Ebay, a Globe F unit with a Lindsay drive.  It looks like a neat system, but unfortunately the motor doesn't run so it is not too useful. 
                Any idea on parts for that?  I have searched on Ebay with no results so far.
                 
                Wobbly913

                Roger Aultman <raul@...> wrote:
                Globe-Athearn made a diecast chassis assenbled with 2-56 screws, they
                could run well.  My first H-0 diesel was one of these
                their biggest problems were brass wheels ands the fact they picked up
                current with two wheels and returned with two, as all diesels of that
                time did.  Pix at:


                http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/ao.jpg



                steamengine4449us wrote:

                >Did Globe make a powered F7? I ask because I have several plastic
                >framed Globe models and I have some more on order. But I am thinking
                >about powering them. I have one that had been powered with a Lindsay
                >drive truck. Problem is the truck does not work! The frame of the
                >engine has all the modifications so if I found another power truck
                >(motor is part of the truck) I could make the one F work. But those
                >drives seem to be rare! (Yes I looked on Ebay that is where the one I
                >have came from)
                >So I am wondering how Globe powered them.
                >
                >Steamengine 4449
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >

                >





                Do you Yahoo!?
                Shop for Back-to-School deals on Yahoo! Shopping.

                Group: vintageHO Message: 210 From: Wobbly913 Date: 9/10/2004
                Subject: Re: powering those globes?
                I have a non-working Lindsay also.  Hopefully someone has one that works and we can both replace ours!!!

                steamengine4449us <steamengine4449us@...> wrote:
                Did Globe make a powered F7? I ask because I have several plastic
                framed Globe models and I have some more on order. But I am thinking
                about powering them. I have one that had been powered with a Lindsay
                drive truck. Problem is the truck does not work! The frame of the
                engine has all the modifications so if I found another power truck
                (motor is part of the truck) I could make the one F work. But those
                drives seem to be rare! (Yes I looked on Ebay that is where the one I
                have came from)
                So I am wondering how Globe powered them.

                Steamengine 4449



                Do you Yahoo!?
                Shop for Back-to-School deals on Yahoo! Shopping.
                Group: vintageHO Message: 211 From: Roger Aultman Date: 9/10/2004
                Subject: Re: powering those globes?
                If you search long enough you will undoubtedly find Lindsay parts.  My recommendation would be to put the Lindsay parts aside for the time being and use a different chassis.  If you like a vintage look Hobbytowns can be found on eBay and are much better runners than the Lindsays will ever be.  I have FA and PA Lindsays that run, but they are nothing to brag about, interesting curiosities to show the visiting model railroaders.   Roger Aultman





                Wobbly913 wrote:
                 
                 
                I recently bought, on Ebay, a Globe F unit with a Lindsay drive.  It looks like a neat system, but unfortunately the motor doesn't run so it is not too useful. 
                Any idea on parts for that?  I have searched on Ebay with no results so far.
                 
                Wobbly913

                Roger Aultman <raul@...> wrote:
                Globe-Athearn made a diecast chassis assenbled with 2-56 screws, they
                could run well.  My first H-0 diesel was one of these
                their biggest problems were brass wheels ands the fact they picked up
                current with two wheels and returned with two, as all diesels of that
                time did.  Pix at:


                http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/ao.jpg



                steamengine4449us wrote:

                >Did Globe make a powered F7? I ask because I have several plastic
                >framed Globe models and I have some more on order. But I am thinking
                >about powering them. I have one that had been powered with a Lindsay
                >drive truck. Problem is the truck does not work! The frame of the
                >engine has all the modifications so if I found another power truck
                >(motor is part of the truck) I could make the one F work. But those
                >drives seem to be rare! (Yes I looked on Ebay that is where the one I
                >have came from)
                >So I am wondering how Globe powered them.
                >
                >Steamengine 4449
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >

                >





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                Group: vintageHO Message: 212 From: Don Riley Date: 9/10/2004
                Subject: Re: powering those globes?
                I just checked Ebay and there are some Hobbytown engines out there. But no Lindsay. I see I am not the only one with a not working Lindsay! I guess with Ebay there are tons of them changing hands!
                 
                I have modern Athearns that I mostly run. I just wanted to get the Globe to work because the frame had been modifyed to use the Lindsay.
                 
                Steamengine 4449

                Roger Aultman <raul@...> wrote:
                If you search long enough you will undoubtedly find Lindsay parts. My
                recommendation would be to put the Lindsay parts aside for the time
                being and use a different chassis. If you like a vintage look
                Hobbytowns can be found on eBay and are much better runners than the
                Lindsays will ever be. I have FA and PA Lindsays that run, but they are
                nothing to brag about, interesting curiosities to show the visiting
                model railroaders. Roger Aultman


                Do you Yahoo!?
                Shop for Back-to-School deals on Yahoo! Shopping.

                Group: vintageHO Message: 213 From: Don Riley Date: 9/10/2004
                Subject: Re: powering those globes?
                Indeed! I watch Ebay so with time I will find something!
                 
                Steamengine 4449

                Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> wrote:
                I have a non-working Lindsay also.  Hopefully someone has one that works and we can both replace ours!!!


                Do you Yahoo!?
                Shop for Back-to-School deals on Yahoo! Shopping.

                Group: vintageHO Message: 214 From: tcol01@earthlink.net Date: 9/10/2004
                Subject: Re: powering those globes?
                On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:28:52 -0500, you wrote:

                ><html><body>

                Please post in plain text. HTML is not a favored email medium.
                All I get with my email reader is gibberish.


                Ray Hobin
                NMRA Life # 1735; TCA # HR-78-12540; ARHS # 2421
                Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
                Group: vintageHO Message: 215 From: Don Riley Date: 9/10/2004
                Subject: Re: powering those globes?
                Well I do not know if it is mine or not!
                If you are having a problem then go to yahoogroups.com and read it on the group homepage.
                 
                Steamengine 4449

                tcol01@... wrote:
                Please post in plain text.  HTML is not a favored email medium.
                All I get with my email reader is gibberish.


                Ray Hobin
                  NMRA Life # 1735; TCA # HR-78-12540; ARHS # 2421
                  Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]


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                Group: vintageHO Message: 216 From: don.dellmann Date: 9/10/2004
                Subject: Re: powering those globes?
                I believe in the 1960's Kemtron may have made the Lindsay motor. I know as
                late as 1969 they were still cataloging the trucks and gear trains. You
                might also check Bowser, there well could be a Pittman motor that would fit.

                Don

                don.dellmann@...
                http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
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                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Don Riley <steamengine4449us@...>
                To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 3:39 PM
                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] powering those globes?


                > I just checked Ebay and there are some Hobbytown engines out there. But no
                Lindsay. I see I am not the only one with a not working Lindsay! I guess
                with Ebay there are tons of them changing hands!
                >
                > I have modern Athearns that I mostly run. I just wanted to get the Globe
                to work because the frame had been modifyed to use the Lindsay.
                >
                > Steamengine 4449
                >
                > Roger Aultman <raul@...> wrote:
                > If you search long enough you will undoubtedly find Lindsay parts. My
                > recommendation would be to put the Lindsay parts aside for the time
                > being and use a different chassis. If you like a vintage look
                > Hobbytowns can be found on eBay and are much better runners than the
                > Lindsays will ever be. I have FA and PA Lindsays that run, but they are
                > nothing to brag about, interesting curiosities to show the visiting
                > model railroaders. Roger Aultman
                >
                > ---------------------------------
                > Do you Yahoo!?
                > Shop for Back-to-School deals on Yahoo! Shopping.
                Group: vintageHO Message: 217 From: Wobbly913 Date: 9/11/2004
                Subject: Re: powering those globes?
                Roger
                 
                Thanks for your reply.  I would like to keep the model more in tune with the Globe line if possible.  To that end the globe power system that your link refers to would be ideal. I will simply keep looking to find either another Lindsay unit or the Globe unit(preferred).
                The cab looks like it would fit onto either an Athearn Hi F frame or even a current Athearn frame...but then the whole thing would look like Athearn, I wish to avoid that.
                 
                Wobbly913

                Roger Aultman <raul@...> wrote:
                If you search long enough you will undoubtedly find Lindsay parts. My
                recommendation would be to put the Lindsay parts aside for the time
                being and use a different chassis. If you like a vintage look
                Hobbytowns can be found on eBay and are much better runners than the
                Lindsays will ever be. I have FA and PA Lindsays that run, but they are
                nothing to brag about, interesting curiosities to show the visiting
                model railroaders. Roger Aultman





                Wobbly913 wrote:

                >
                >
                > I recently bought, on Ebay, a Globe F unit with a Lindsay drive. It
                > looks like a neat system, but unfortunately the motor doesn't run so
                > it is not too useful.
                > Any idea on parts for that? I have searched on Ebay with no results
                > so far.
                >
                > Wobbly913
                >
                > Roger Aultman wrote:
                >
                > Globe-Athearn made a diecast chassis assenbled with 2-56 screws, they
                > could run well. My first H-0 diesel was one of these
                > their biggest problems were brass wheels ands the fact they picked up
                > current with two wheels and returned with two, as all diesels of that
                > time did. Pix at:
                >
                >
                > http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/ao.jpg
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > steamengine4449us wrote:
                >
                > >Did Globe make a powered F7? I ask because I have several plastic
                > >framed Globe models and I have some more on order. But I am thinking
                > >about powering them. I have one that had been powered with a Lindsay
                > >drive truck. Problem is the truck does not work! The frame of the
                > >engine has all the modifications so if I found another power truck
                > >(motor is part of the truck) I could make the one F work. But those
                > >drives seem to be rare! (Yes I looked on Ebay that is where the
                > one I
                > >have came from)
                > >So I am wondering how Globe powered them.
                > >
                > >Steamengine 4449
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                > Shop for Back-to-School deals on Yahoo! Shopping
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                >
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                >
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                Group: vintageHO Message: 218 From: Rudolf de Haas Date: 9/12/2004
                Subject: Updated Pittman section
                To everyone who's interested,
                I've updated the Pittman section on my (Varney) website.
                Take a look at:

                http://www.redehaas.dds.nl/Varney.htm

                If there's more info on this subject (or the Varney area),
                please let me know.

                Regards from a Varney fan from Holland,
                Rudolf





                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "oahurailway" <two.peaks@v...>
                wrote:
                >
                >
                > Hi Rudolf,
                >
                > Thanks for the most comprehensive Pittman motor information!
                > Your Varney website is really comming along very well!
                >
                > Best regards
                >
                > Sarita
                Group: vintageHO Message: 219 From: Ellen & Garry Date: 9/15/2004
                Subject: FA: PRR MP54 Kits by Walthers
                Group: vintageHO Message: 220 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 9/16/2004
                Subject: Re: powering those globes?
                As for the Globe F-7's, when Irv Athearn first produced the Silver Streak F-7's in 1954 (under the Globe tradename he bought out in 1951), they originally were not powered but were unpowered dummy units. Later on (soon after), several model companies made drives especially for this model. They included Hobbytown, Kemtron and Athearn himself. Very shortly after these drives were released, Lindsay made a drive for this model. So, I guess you could say that they were powered after first being introduced as a dummy, as Athearn was both manufacturer and owner of the Globe shell and later the mechanism, with Hobbytown, Kemtron and Lindsay producing "aftermarket" drives for it as well. Ray
                Group: vintageHO Message: 221 From: Roger Aultman Date: 9/16/2004
                Subject: Re: powering those globes?
                Attachments :
                  I think Baker also made a power conversion unit. Roger Aultman


                  erieberk@... wrote:

                  > As for the Globe F-7's, when Irv Athearn first produced the Silver
                  > Streak F-7's in 1954 (under the Globe tradename he bought out in
                  > 1951), they originally were not powered but were unpowered dummy
                  > units. Later on (soon after), several model companies made drives
                  > especially for this model. They included Hobbytown, Kemtron and
                  > Athearn himself. Very shortly after these drives were released,
                  > Lindsay made a drive for this model. So, I guess you could say that
                  > they were powered after first being introduced as a dummy, as Athearn
                  > was both manufacturer and owner of the Globe shell and later the
                  > mechanism, with Hobbytown, Kemtron and Lindsay producing "aftermarket"
                  > drives for it as well. Ray
                  > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                  > ADVERTISEMENT
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                  >
                  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                  >
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                  > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                  >
                  >
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 222 From: retiredgrouch Date: 9/21/2004
                  Subject: Powering those Globes
                  Last Thursday, erieberk spoke about the various drives that were
                  available for the F7s. In the late 50's(?) I bought the Hobbytown
                  power drive with that BIG DC90 Pittman motor for the outstanding
                  price of $14.95, then got Mr Tapper's "Multi-drive" to fit in the B
                  unit. (That cost only $9.95) I "over fine-tuned" that power and thus
                  it never quite worked superbly, merely great. (Had a fellow in the
                  club to which I belonged at that time who had purchased the same
                  Hobbytown power but with the alternate higher speed gears and his
                  unit pulled many passenger cars effortlessly all day long at our
                  annual show days.)

                  Just purchased a "heavy duty" DCC decoder and will install it within
                  a day or two. The club to which I currently belong is switching to
                  DCC and we intend to be all DCC come this year's open houses prior
                  to the holidays.

                  Decision time. Put decoders in my Varney F3 A&Bs or sell them off.
                  Don't have a home layout. Must go to the club to run my trains.
                  Any sage advice from someone who "been there; done that"?

                  Retired grouch in Jersey
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 223 From: Roger Aultman Date: 9/21/2004
                  Subject: Re: Powering those Globes
                  I put decoders in a John English mike and a Mantua all metal pacific
                  with the original gearbox. These run OK but I may try the eBay motors
                  that are available for $6-$7 to see if it will improve performance.
                  Have not done any old diesels yet, but I have a Walthers HH that runs
                  good and has a low current draw. Also a couple of the diecast John
                  English Alcos, was fortunate to pick up a couple of original JE re-power
                  kits for these. Roger Aultman




                  retiredgrouch wrote:
                  > Last Thursday, erieberk spoke about the various drives that were
                  > available for the F7s. In the late 50's(?) I bought the Hobbytown
                  > power drive with that BIG DC90 Pittman motor for the outstanding
                  > price of $14.95, then got Mr Tapper's "Multi-drive" to fit in the B
                  > unit. (That cost only $9.95) I "over fine-tuned" that power and thus
                  > it never quite worked superbly, merely great. (Had a fellow in the
                  > club to which I belonged at that time who had purchased the same
                  > Hobbytown power but with the alternate higher speed gears and his
                  > unit pulled many passenger cars effortlessly all day long at our
                  > annual show days.)
                  >
                  > Just purchased a "heavy duty" DCC decoder and will install it within
                  > a day or two. The club to which I currently belong is switching to
                  > DCC and we intend to be all DCC come this year's open houses prior
                  > to the holidays.
                  >
                  > Decision time. Put decoders in my Varney F3 A&Bs or sell them off.
                  > Don't have a home layout. Must go to the club to run my trains.
                  > Any sage advice from someone who "been there; done that"?
                  >
                  > Retired grouch in Jersey
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 224 From: photobysam@yahoo.com Date: 9/23/2004
                  Subject: Walthers wood/metal passenger cars kits
                  Is anybody looking for the old Walther passenger car kits with the
                  metal sides and wood top and bottom? Have about 20 different I may
                  sell.
                  Sam
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 225 From: Garry Spear Date: 9/23/2004
                  Subject: Re: Walthers wood/metal passenger cars kits
                  Hi Sam,

                  They sell for good money on eBay: Note the new BranchLine & Walthers HW
                  cars will shorten, maybe kill, the market for these old kits.

                  I happen to be looking for a Walthers FP6 80' Pullman - 3 Compt 1 Dr Buf
                  Lng kit.

                  Garry Spear

                  ___
                  > ________________________________________________________________________
                  >
                  >
                  > Message: 1 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 05:28:06 -0000 From:
                  > photobysam@... Subject: Walthers wood/metal passenger cars kits
                  >
                  >
                  > Is anybody looking for the old Walther passenger car kits with the
                  > metal sides and wood top and bottom? Have about 20 different I may
                  > sell. Sam
                  >
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 226 From: Roger Aultman Date: 9/23/2004
                  Subject: Devore Dyamometer Car
                  Recently obtained one of the above, nice box with lots of parts but no
                  assembly sketch or procedure. Would gladly pay for a copy or scan of
                  the same. Roger Aultman
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 227 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 9/23/2004
                  Subject: Re: Devore Dyamometer Car
                  Roger, Have two of the Devore Dynomometer Car kits; one of the has to have instructions, I'm sure (got to did them out). I don't have a scanner, so if you'd like, I'll xerox the plans and mail them to you, but will need your address. I can be reached at www.erieberk@..., if you need my email. Ray
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 228 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 9/23/2004
                  Subject: Re: Walthers wood/metal passenger cars kits
                  Hi Sam, Among others, I've been looking for FP-7 H (NYC 2-Door Combine), and 6675 -- or 7875 (75' Erie Modernized Coach). Had been thinking about obtaining an FP-4 (PRR Horse-Express-Scenery Car) even though I don't really model PRR. Let me know what you decide and if you have any if these. Thanks, Ray Wetzel
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 229 From: James B Date: 9/24/2004
                  Subject: FA: Various Silver Streak kits on ebay
                  Hello, I have placed a couple of old Silver Streak kits on ebay. Later
                  this weekend I hope to list some vintage steam engines also. Some Penn
                  Line, Varney, John English and others. They can be found at:

                  http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=barteltj

                  --
                  James Bartelt
                  barteltj@...

                  Jim's Railroad & Great Lakes Photo's
                  http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumList?u=1751079

                  METRO RR Club
                  http://www.metrorrclub.org

                  METRO RR CLUB SPRING SHOW 2005
                  http://www.execpc.com/~barteltj/spring
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 230 From: photobysam@yahoo.com Date: 9/26/2004
                  Subject: Wood/metal passenger car kits
                  Here are the kits I have, new in the box except for 3 built ones.
                  Email if interested in any of them. The built ones need work as I
                  bought them to rebuild and for parts. Also have some American Beauty
                  kits. Have been in HO for over 50 years, time to clean out a little.
                  Sam (photobySam)

                  Walthers Kits
                  6602 Pullman '80 (12 sec - 1DR) plastic roof
                  6604 Observation '80 (3 Comp - 2 DR) plastic roof
                  6614 Pullman '80 (14 Sec) plastic roof
                  6620 Baggage '70 (monitor roof) plastic roof
                  6628 Postal Baggage '70 (monitor roof) plastic roof
                  6659 Dormitory Lounge '80 (Sante Fe) plastic roof
                  6680 Coach '75 (monitor roof) plastic roof
                  6682 Coach '80 (monitor roof) plastic roof
                  7801 Observation '80 (4 Comp) built
                  7806 Pullman '80 (6 Bedroom - Buf-Lounge wood roof
                  7814 Pullman '80 (14 sec) wood roof
                  7819 Baggage '60 built
                  7828 Postal Baggage '70 Combine wood roof
                  7845 Combine '75 (modernized) built
                  7880 Coach '75 wood roof
                  7881 Coach '75 wood roof
                  7883 Coach '80 wood roof
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 231 From: Rick Jones Date: 9/29/2004
                  Subject: Re: FA: Various Silver Streak kits on ebay
                  James B wrote:
                  > Hello, I have placed a couple of old Silver Streak kits on ebay. Later
                  > this weekend I hope to list some vintage steam engines also. Some Penn
                  > Line, Varney, John English and others. They can be found at:
                  >
                  > http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=barteltj

                  What are you charging for shipping on these kits? The ads don't
                  include that detail.

                  --

                  Rick Jones

                  The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad
                  http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 232 From: photobysam@yahoo.com Date: 10/2/2004
                  Subject: Value? Lionel 4-6-2 Pacific
                  Lionel Southern RR 4-6-2 Pacific, excellent condition, no box. No
                  track to test run, tested on a transformer, oiled motor, runs a
                  little sluggish, has been stored for approx. 40 yrs, smoker and light
                  works. Also has a motor in the tender. Wheels show very little wear,
                  paint is very good. Photo's available. Would like to know the value
                  of this for possible sale. Have been in HO for 50+ years and need to
                  sell some items. If you have a want list email it I will see if I
                  have it. Nothing new in the last 15 years. Many unbuilt kits.
                  TIA,
                  Sam
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 233 From: photobysam@yahoo.com Date: 10/2/2004
                  Subject: Re: Value? Lionel 4-6-2 Pacific
                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, photobysam@y... wrote:
                  >
                  > Lionel Southern RR 4-6-2 Pacific, excellent condition, no box. No
                  > track to test run, tested on a transformer, oiled motor, runs a
                  > little sluggish, has been stored for approx. 40 yrs, smoker and
                  light
                  > works. Also has a motor in the tender. Wheels show very little
                  wear,
                  > paint is very good. Photo's available. Would like to know the
                  value
                  > of this for possible sale. Have been in HO for 50+ years and need
                  to
                  > sell some items. If you have a want list email it I will see if I
                  > have it. Nothing new in the last 15 years. Many unbuilt kits.
                  > TIA,
                  > Sam

                  Correction,
                  This is a Southern Pacific 4-6-2, engine number 0646.
                  Sam
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 234 From: cnj999 Date: 10/3/2004
                  Subject: Re: Value? Lionel 4-6-2 Pacific
                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, photobysam@y... wrote:
                  >
                  > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, photobysam@y... wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Lionel Southern RR 4-6-2 Pacific, excellent condition, no box.
                  No
                  > > track to test run, tested on a transformer, oiled motor, runs a
                  > > little sluggish, has been stored for approx. 40 yrs, smoker and
                  > light
                  > > works. Also has a motor in the tender. Wheels show very little
                  > wear,
                  > > paint is very good. Photo's available. Would like to know the
                  > value
                  > > of this for possible sale. Have been in HO for 50+ years and need
                  > to
                  > > sell some items. If you have a want list email it I will see if I
                  > > have it. Nothing new in the last 15 years. Many unbuilt kits.
                  > > TIA,
                  > > Sam
                  >
                  > Correction,
                  > This is a Southern Pacific 4-6-2, engine number 0646.
                  > Sam

                  Sam - You may be a bit off the mark asking a question about Lionel
                  here as this is mainly a forum generally addressing vintage HO model
                  railroading equipment, not 0-guage or Lionel.

                  However, a check of Greenberg's Lionel Guide seems to return an ID of
                  a 1954-58 4-6-4 Hudson with whistle tender for #646, not an engine
                  with a Pacific wheel arrangement. The #646 Hudson (probably available
                  in several road names over the period) is fairly rare and might
                  command something like $200 in very good to excellent condition
                  according to the Guide. However, if the model has indeed been altered
                  to a 4-6-2 wheel arrangement, I'd expect the value could be
                  considerably less.

                  CNJ999
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 235 From: James Bartelt Date: 10/3/2004
                  Subject: Re: Value? Lionel 4-6-2 Pacific
                  To cnj999 and the group,

                  Yes this an appropriate question for the group as Lionel did make HO
                  items in the 50's, 60's and 70's. I own quite a few pieces as well as a
                  pacific like the one Sam mentioned. Though mine does not have a motor in
                  the tender. It is in the loco. Is this a possible whistling tender? I
                  have see locos like this go on ebay in the $30-$50 range depending on
                  condition and whether they have the original box or not. If you have any
                  Lionel HO operating cars that you might want to sell let me know as I
                  might be interested in adding them to my collection.


                  --
                  James Bartelt
                  barteltj@...

                  Jim’s Railroad & Great Lakes Photo’s
                  http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumList?u=1751079

                  METRO RR Club
                  http://www.metrorrclub.org

                  METRO RR CLUB SPRING SHOW 2005
                  http://www.execpc.com/~barteltj/spring



                  cnj999 wrote:

                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >Sam - You may be a bit off the mark asking a question about Lionel
                  >here as this is mainly a forum generally addressing vintage HO model
                  >railroading equipment, not 0-guage or Lionel.
                  >
                  >However, a check of Greenberg's Lionel Guide seems to return an ID of
                  >a 1954-58 4-6-4 Hudson with whistle tender for #646, not an engine
                  >with a Pacific wheel arrangement. The #646 Hudson (probably available
                  >in several road names over the period) is fairly rare and might
                  >command something like $200 in very good to excellent condition
                  >according to the Guide. However, if the model has indeed been altered
                  >to a 4-6-2 wheel arrangement, I'd expect the value could be
                  >considerably less.
                  >
                  >CNJ999
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >_____________________________________________________
                  >This message scanned for viruses by CoreComm
                  >
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                  >
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 236 From: photobysam@yahoo.com Date: 10/3/2004
                  Subject: Re: Value? Lionel 4-6-2 Pacific
                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cnj999" <jbortle@a...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, photobysam@y... wrote:
                  > >
                  > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, photobysam@y... wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Lionel Southern RR 4-6-2 Pacific, excellent condition, no box.
                  > No
                  > > > track to test run, tested on a transformer, oiled motor, runs a
                  > > > little sluggish, has been stored for approx. 40 yrs, smoker and
                  > > light
                  > > > works. Also has a motor in the tender. Wheels show very little
                  > > wear,
                  > > > paint is very good. Photo's available. Would like to know the
                  > > value
                  > > > of this for possible sale. Have been in HO for 50+ years and
                  need
                  > > to
                  > > > sell some items. If you have a want list email it I will see if
                  I
                  > > > have it. Nothing new in the last 15 years. Many unbuilt kits.
                  > > > TIA,
                  > > > Sam
                  > >
                  > > Correction,
                  > > This is a Southern Pacific 4-6-2, engine number 0646.
                  > > Sam
                  >
                  > Sam - You may be a bit off the mark asking a question about Lionel
                  > here as this is mainly a forum generally addressing vintage HO
                  model
                  > railroading equipment, not 0-guage or Lionel.
                  >
                  > However, a check of Greenberg's Lionel Guide seems to return an ID
                  of
                  > a 1954-58 4-6-4 Hudson with whistle tender for #646, not an engine
                  > with a Pacific wheel arrangement. The #646 Hudson (probably
                  available
                  > in several road names over the period) is fairly rare and might
                  > command something like $200 in very good to excellent condition
                  > according to the Guide. However, if the model has indeed been
                  altered
                  > to a 4-6-2 wheel arrangement, I'd expect the value could be
                  > considerably less.
                  >
                  > CNJ999

                  I posted it here because this is a vintage HO scale and from one of
                  the oldest model RR manufacturers in the US, not trying to create any
                  problems but here are a few lines from the "Group Description" on the
                  Home page.

                  "Does the thought of Varney, Penn Line, Megow, Kasiner, Blue Line,
                  Lionel HO, Ulrich, American Beauty, Hobbyline, Marx, Revell, etc.
                  etc. make your heart beat faster? This is the place for you.

                  Athearn Metal cars, MDC back when they really WERE "diecast",
                  Walthers metal passenger cars, all are "on topic" here".

                  I have enjoyed my short time on this board and think it is a very
                  informative board and hope it will continue, without being brand
                  specific.
                  Sam
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 237 From: Diane Morgan Date: 10/3/2004
                  Subject: Re: Value? Lionel 4-6-2 Pacific
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: cnj999 <jbortle@...>
                  To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 3:48 PM
                  Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Value? Lionel 4-6-2 Pacific


                  >
                  >
                  > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, photobysam@y... wrote:
                  > >
                  > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, photobysam@y... wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Lionel Southern RR 4-6-2 Pacific, excellent condition, no box.
                  > No
                  > > > track to test run, tested on a transformer, oiled motor, runs a
                  > > > little sluggish, has been stored for approx. 40 yrs, smoker and
                  > > light
                  > > > works. Also has a motor in the tender. Wheels show very little
                  > > wear,
                  > > > paint is very good. Photo's available. Would like to know the
                  > > value
                  > > > of this for possible sale. Have been in HO for 50+ years and need
                  > > to
                  > > > sell some items. If you have a want list email it I will see if I
                  > > > have it. Nothing new in the last 15 years. Many unbuilt kits.
                  > > > TIA,
                  > > > Sam
                  > >
                  > > Correction,
                  > > This is a Southern Pacific 4-6-2, engine number 0646.
                  > > Sam
                  >
                  > Sam - You may be a bit off the mark asking a question about Lionel
                  > here as this is mainly a forum generally addressing vintage HO model
                  > railroading equipment, not 0-guage or Lionel.
                  >
                  > However, a check of Greenberg's Lionel Guide seems to return an ID of
                  > a 1954-58 4-6-4 Hudson with whistle tender for #646, not an engine
                  > with a Pacific wheel arrangement. The #646 Hudson (probably available
                  > in several road names over the period) is fairly rare and might
                  > command something like $200 in very good to excellent condition
                  > according to the Guide. However, if the model has indeed been altered
                  > to a 4-6-2 wheel arrangement, I'd expect the value could be
                  > considerably less.
                  >
                  > CNJ999

                  I believe he's talking about an HO model, possibley the one that was built
                  for Lionel by Athearn. (although I've never seen one with a tender drive.)

                  Don

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                  Group: vintageHO Message: 238 From: Dst8596587@aol.com Date: 10/4/2004
                  Subject: Re: Value? Lionel 4-6-2 Pacific
                  Sam,
                   
                  Your engine is a Lionel produced in the 1950 time frame . Lionel marketed othr HO engines built for them by Athearn and Rivarossi. The Pacific was designed and built by the Lionel Corporation. The motor in the tender would lead me to believe that this engine has a tender mounted whistle. These engines never really caught on with the public, due in part to the drive train used. You are correct in your assumption that they are vintage HO. They and Marx as well as AC Gilbert (American Flyer) all produced HO engines. The amazing fact about Lionel was that they chose a Pacific to model when thier main claim to fame in the O gauge field was the Hudson. It could be due to the fact that American Flyer already had an established HO Hudson on the market that caused them to look the other way. Or it could be that the John English company had a hand in the project. The casting looks amazingly similar to a John English USRA Pacific. At any rate the Lionel HO engines would normally have a 0 as the first numeral in the engine number. Such as 0401, 0511, etc.( Made up numbers so don't look for them.) I have seen these models (Pacifics) sell on the average in the 40 to 75 dollar range dependent upon a number of variables. Depending upon who you talk to, the area you are in,  and how much the buyer wants the engine, the price  could change dramatically.  Good luck.
                   
                  Don 
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 239 From: tcol01@earthlink.net Date: 10/4/2004
                  Subject: Re: Value? Lionel 4-6-2 Pacific
                  On Mon, 4 Oct 2004 08:40:08 EDT, you wrote:

                  >Sam,
                  >
                  >Your engine is a Lionel produced in the 1950 time frame . Lionel marketed
                  >othr HO engines built for them by Athearn and Rivarossi. The Pacific was designed
                  >and built by the Lionel Corporation. The motor in the tender would lead me to
                  >believe that this engine has a tender mounted whistle. These engines never
                  >really caught on with the public, due in part to the drive train used. You are
                  >correct in your assumption that they are vintage HO. They and Marx as well as
                  >AC Gilbert (American Flyer) all produced HO engines. The amazing fact about
                  >Lionel was that they chose a Pacific to model when thier main claim to fame in
                  >the O gauge field was the Hudson. It could be due to the fact that American
                  >Flyer already had an established HO Hudson on the market that caused them to look
                  >the other way. Or it could be that the John English company had a hand in the
                  >project. The casting looks amazingly similar to a John English USRA Pacific.
                  >At any rate the Lionel HO engines would normally have a 0 as the first numeral
                  >in the engine number. Such as 0401, 0511, etc.( Made up numbers so don't look
                  >for them.) I have seen these models (Pacifics) sell on the average in the 40
                  >to 75 dollar range dependent upon a number of variables. Depending upon who you
                  >talk to, the area you are in, and how much the buyer wants the engine, the
                  >price could change dramatically. Good luck.


                  Glad you clarified that...I was having a problem identifying thee
                  "listed" loco as I assumed it was lionel 3-rail loco and not an
                  HO one...and therefore could not identify it.

                  My fault..this being a VintageH0 newsgroup/newsletter, I should
                  have known better. :(

                  Regards to all.........


                  Ray Hobin
                  NMRA Life # 1735; TCA # HR-78-12540; ARHS # 2421
                  Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
                  Group: vintageHO Message: 240 From: Don Dellmann Date: 10/8/2004
                  Subject: Latest eBay aquisition
                  Attachments :
                    Latest aquisition via eBay. Varney plastic.

                    I changed the trucks and added the Kadees last night.

                    Don

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                    Group: vintageHO Message: 241 From: Dave Slater Date: 10/8/2004
                    Subject: Re: Latest eBay aquisition
                    Don,
                    Not one to "pick nits" here but it looks to me like you need the "re-rail" crew out... <VBG> Looks good otherwise though....
                    Dave S.

                    Don Dellmann wrote:

                     Latest aquisition via eBay.  Varney plastic.

                    I changed the trucks and added the Kadees last night.

                    Don

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                    Group: vintageHO Message: 242 From: Wobbly913 Date: 10/8/2004
                    Subject: Re: Latest eBay aquisition
                    Don
                     
                    I also recently bought that exact same Varney car several weeks ago also on ebay. I wanted to put Kadee couplers on it.  When I pried on the coupler cover I broke off a little retaining ring that had held the cover on, leaving a thin pin sticking out with no convenient way to reattach the cover. Did you have the same result? If yes, how did you reattach the coupler cover?
                     
                    Mine came with a plastic truck on one end and a metal sprung truck on the other end. What should it have??
                     
                    Wobbly913

                    Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                    Latest aquisition via eBay.  Varney plastic.

                    I changed the trucks and added the Kadees last night.

                    Don

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                    > ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg name=VGN61550.jpg


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                    Group: vintageHO Message: 243 From: don.dellmann Date: 10/8/2004
                    Subject: Re: Latest eBay aquisition
                    Noticed that AFTER I sent the picture out once already (to the guy I bought
                    the car from), but figured what the heck, how many pictures have there been
                    of "Names" layouts in the magazines with derailed cars, figured let it go.

                    Don
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                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Dave Slater <daslater@...>
                    To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 9:54 PM
                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Latest eBay aquisition


                    > Don,
                    > Not one to "pick nits" here but it looks to me like you need the "re-rail"
                    crew
                    > out... <VBG> Looks good otherwise though....
                    > Dave S.
                    >
                    > Don Dellmann wrote:
                    >
                    > > Latest aquisition via eBay. Varney plastic.
                    > >
                    > > I changed the trucks and added the Kadees last night.
                    > >
                    > > Don
                    > >
                    > > don.dellmann@...
                    > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                    > > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                    > > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                    > > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    > > co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                    > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                    > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                    > ADVERTISEMENT
                    > [click here]
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    ---------------------------------------------------------------
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                    > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                    > >
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                    > > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > >
                    > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                    Service.
                    > >
                    >


                    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    ----


                    > Don,
                    > Not one to "pick nits" here but it looks to me like you need the "re-rail"
                    crew out... <VBG> Looks good otherwise though....
                    > Dave S.
                    > Don Dellmann wrote:
                    >
                    > Latest aquisition via eBay. Varney plastic.
                    > I changed the trucks and added the Kadees last night.
                    >
                    > Don
                    >
                    > don.dellmann@...
                    > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                    > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                    > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                    > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                    > co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    Group: vintageHO Message: 244 From: don.dellmann Date: 10/8/2004
                    Subject: Re: Latest eBay aquisition
                    Attachments :
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...>
                      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 10:25 PM
                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Latest eBay aquisition


                      > Don
                      >
                      > I also recently bought that exact same Varney car several weeks ago also
                      on ebay.
                      >I wanted to put Kadee couplers on it. When I pried on the coupler cover I
                      broke off a >little retaining ring that had held the cover on, leaving a
                      thin pin sticking out with no >convenient way to reattach the cover. Did you
                      have the same result? If yes, how did >you reattach the coupler cover?

                      I take the base of the Kadee No. 5 pocket (the flat part with the boss on
                      it) and file the ears off until it fits down into the Varney pocket, then
                      glue it in as the cover (First picture below)

                      >
                      > Mine came with a plastic truck on one end and a metal sprung truck on the
                      other end. >What should it have??
                      >

                      The original Varney truck was a metel sprung unit, but rather oddly
                      proportioned, so it looks like it has a longer wheelbase than it really does
                      (second picture below). It's not a very free rolling truck though, and the
                      original "tenite" (plastic) wheels have very sharp flanges. So far I
                      haven't had much luck finding a wheelset that fits it well, so on many of
                      them I replaced them with newer trucks.

                      > Wobbly913

                      Don

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                      Group: vintageHO Message: 245 From: Dave Slater Date: 10/9/2004
                      Subject: Re: Latest eBay aquisition
                      That's the way it always seems to work, we notice an "error" AFTER all is done... <G>
                      Dave S.

                      "don.dellmann" wrote:

                      Noticed that AFTER I sent the picture out once already (to the guy I bought
                      the car from), but figured what the heck, how many pictures have there been
                      of "Names" layouts in the magazines with derailed cars, figured let it go.

                      Don
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                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Dave Slater <daslater@...>
                      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 9:54 PM
                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Latest eBay aquisition
                       

                      > Don,
                      > Not one to "pick nits" here but it looks to me like you need the "re-rail"
                      crew
                      > out... <VBG> Looks good otherwise though....
                      > Dave S.
                      >
                      > Don Dellmann wrote:
                      >
                      > >  Latest aquisition via eBay.  Varney plastic.
                      > >
                      > > I changed the trucks and added the Kadees last night.
                      > >
                      > > Don
                      > >
                      > > don.dellmann@...
                      > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                      > > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                      > > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                      > > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                      > > co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >                    Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                      >                         ADVERTISEMENT
                      >                          [click here]
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                        ---------------------------------------------------------------
                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >
                      > >    * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      > >      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                      > >
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                      > >      vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > >
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                      Service.
                      > >
                      >
                       

                      ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      ----
                       

                      > Don,
                      > Not one to "pick nits" here but it looks to me like you need the "re-rail"
                      crew out... <VBG> Looks good otherwise though....
                      > Dave S.
                      > Don Dellmann wrote:
                      >
                      >    Latest aquisition via eBay.  Varney plastic.
                      >   I changed the trucks and added the Kadees last night.
                      >
                      >   Don
                      >
                      >   don.dellmann@...
                      >   http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                      >   moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                      >   moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
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                      >   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                       

                      Group: vintageHO Message: 246 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 10/10/2004
                      Subject: Re: Latest eBay aquisition
                      Don, Nice find! As I don't see a catalog number printed on the side (unless I missed it), it appears that this is the earlier version -- BW-109 -- produced 1961- 65, especially if it has plastic door guides and the roof being a separate piece, not molded with the sides. If this is the case it should have, in all probability, a plastic underframe as that seems to be the only type known to exist on this model. However, it seems that this car was intended to have a die-cast frame at some point even though none are known. In your later post w/Kadee photo, do I detect a die-cast frame? If so, it looks like you've got a rare find. Ray
                      Group: vintageHO Message: 247 From: Diane Morgan Date: 10/10/2004
                      Subject: Re: Latest eBay aquisition
                      Roof is molded to the sides, door guides are metal, and the underframe is
                      plastic.

                      Don

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                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: <erieberk@...>
                      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 11:37 AM
                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Latest eBay aquisition


                      > Don, Nice find! As I don't see a catalog number printed on the side
                      (unless I
                      > missed it), it appears that this is the earlier version -- BW-109 --
                      produced
                      > 1961- 65, especially if it has plastic door guides and the roof being a
                      > separate piece, not molded with the sides. If this is the case it should
                      have, in
                      > all probability, a plastic underframe as that seems to be the only type
                      known
                      > to exist on this model. However, it seems that this car was intended to
                      have a
                      > die-cast frame at some point even though none are known. In your later
                      post
                      > w/Kadee photo, do I detect a die-cast frame? If so, it looks like you've
                      got a
                      > rare find. Ray
                      >
                      Group: vintageHO Message: 248 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 10/11/2004
                      Subject: Re: Latest eBay aquisition
                      O.K. Don, then you have catalog number 2465 VI (also referred to as 2465 VGN), a "ready-to- run" version also produced 1961-65. I presume the car has no brake gear and has a separate underframe and floor casting. Still a nice find as this roadname is not that common. Ray
                      Group: vintageHO Message: 249 From: Garry Spear Date: 10/11/2004
                      Subject: FS: Varney Metal Kits OB
                      I have the following 3 kist for sale:

                      VINTAGE METAL VARNEY NH BOXCAR B-81 ORIGINAL ORANGE BOX - Price $20.00
                      http://users.rcn.com/gspear/Sale308.htm

                      VINTAGE METAL VARNEY GERBER REEFER R-39 ORIGINAL BOX - Price $17.00
                      http://users.rcn.com/gspear/Sale309.htm

                      VINTAGE METAL VARNEY KATY B-75 ORIGINAL BOX - Price $14.00
                      http://users.rcn.com/gspear/Sale310.htm

                      Prices include US Priority Mail Shipping. A $3.00 discount per car will
                      be allowed for shipping if multiple cars are purchased.

                      Garry Spear
                      Group: vintageHO Message: 250 From: don.dellmann Date: 10/11/2004
                      Subject: Re: Latest eBay aquisition
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: <erieberk@...>
                      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 7:56 AM
                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Latest eBay aquisition


                      > O.K. Don, then you have catalog number 2465 VI (also referred to as 2465
                      > VGN), a "ready-to- run" version also produced 1961-65. I presume the car
                      has no
                      > brake gear and has a separate underframe and floor casting. Still a nice
                      find as
                      > this roadname is not that common. Ray
                      >

                      True. It also has a flat weight glued inside (or I should say I re-glued it
                      <G>), but I don't know if that was original.

                      Don

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                      Group: vintageHO Message: 251 From: Bill D. Date: 11/8/2004
                      Subject: Dallas Modelcraft E7 and FTs
                      Good People,

                      I have a Dallas Modelcraft E7A. It is a rare bird. The Dallas
                      Modelcraft folks brought out their line in the late 40's, and were
                      gone by around 1954. The engineering & tool work they used wasn't up
                      to what Hobbytown,Varney, Kemtron, etc had. If anybody has Model
                      Railroader mags from 1949 look for their ad(s). Many years ago when
                      I acquired these half-started kits, I was able to find an ad for
                      their passenger cars in a back issue of MR. About 15 years ago, a
                      fellow named Keith Willis authored a series in RMC dealing with the
                      origins of model railroading and " the early manufacturers", and
                      made mention of these folks.

                      My question is:
                      Are my kits which have cast brass and photoengraver's metal (zinc
                      alloy)shells, brass gear boxes (pulley drive from the motor) with
                      cast brass sideframes just some kind of quaint novelties or
                      something I should not discard now, 'cause my heirs will get rich
                      selling them after I'm gone.

                      Can anybody out there give me a clue about this company, and/or what
                      value these jewels have. I don't think 1/2 of 1% of the people who
                      look to buy on eBay would even know the name, Dallas Modelcraft.

                      There's an E7a unit, assembled (albeit modified from the factory
                      instructions, which I still have); a E7B still un-assembled in the
                      O.B.; an FTA unit, on which I mangled the loco sides; and an FTB
                      unit un-assembled.

                      Awaiting your replies,

                      Bill D. aka retired grouch
                      Group: vintageHO Message: 252 From: Kjb80401@aol.com Date: 11/8/2004
                      Subject: Re: Dallas Modelcraft E7 and FTs
                      In a message dated 11/8/04 12:19:23 PM Mountain Standard Time,
                      retiredgrouch@... writes:

                      << My question is:
                      Are my kits which have cast brass and photoengraver's metal (zinc
                      alloy)shells, brass gear boxes (pulley drive from the motor) with
                      cast brass sideframes just some kind of quaint novelties or
                      something I should not discard now, 'cause my heirs will get rich
                      selling them after I'm gone. >>

                      The thing that caught my eye was the reference to the pulley-drive from the
                      motor. If this is the same setup that my early 50's or late 40's Walthers
                      doodlebug has, they are the smoothest and quietest drives out of that era, and
                      with prototypically speed output. They rival the qualities of today's drive
                      systems in those respects.

                      If you want to discard them, keep me in mind.

                      Keevan
                      Group: vintageHO Message: 253 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 11/8/2004
                      Subject: Re: Dallas Modelcraft E7 and FTs
                      While I wouldn't call them novelties, I doubt that your heirs would "get rich" from them, although I can really tell you what they're worth.  I do remember them as I believe I have an old catalog of their's in the attic.  If you do decide to toss them, please keep me in mind and let me know what you want for them; thanks,  Ray
                      Group: vintageHO Message: 254 From: steamengine4449us Date: 11/19/2004
                      Subject: rubber connectors for drive shafts
                      I am trying to power up some old Athearn rubberband drive locomotives
                      & RDCs. Problem is the rubber connectors for the drive shafts have
                      failed and will not hold anymore. This leads to the drive shafts not
                      staying attached when the bands are in place.

                      So how are you guys dealing with this?

                      Horrizon still offers the rubberbands on their website. I got two
                      bags of them. I do not know if they offer anything else for band
                      drive F7s or GP9s because I do not have instruction sheets.

                      So do any of you have those sheets?

                      If so could you please post them in the files section.
                      I want them so I can get part numbers to look up verious things for
                      the band drive fleet.

                      Steamengine 4449 (Bringing band drive engines back to life!)
                      Group: vintageHO Message: 255 From: don.dellmann Date: 11/19/2004
                      Subject: Re: rubber connectors for drive shafts
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: steamengine4449us <steamengine4449us@...>
                      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 3:13 PM
                      Subject: [vintageHO] rubber connectors for drive shafts


                      >
                      > I am trying to power up some old Athearn rubberband drive locomotives
                      > & RDCs. Problem is the rubber connectors for the drive shafts have
                      > failed and will not hold anymore. This leads to the drive shafts not
                      > staying attached when the bands are in place.
                      >
                      > So how are you guys dealing with this?
                      >
                      > Horrizon still offers the rubberbands on their website. I got two
                      > bags of them. I do not know if they offer anything else for band
                      > drive F7s or GP9s because I do not have instruction sheets.
                      >
                      > So do any of you have those sheets?
                      >
                      > If so could you please post them in the files section.
                      > I want them so I can get part numbers to look up verious things for
                      > the band drive fleet.
                      >
                      > Steamengine 4449 (Bringing band drive engines back to life!)

                      From the hobby shop, model airplane fuel line. If you can still find the
                      old neoprene stuff it's best, although the modern silicone tubing will work,
                      just not as well (it's a little on the soft side.)

                      Don

                      don.dellmann@...
                      http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
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                      Group: vintageHO Message: 256 From: Larry Date: 11/19/2004
                      Subject: Re: rubber connectors for drive shafts
                      SteamEngine

                      Go to my homepage link and then to the Athearn Literature Section of
                      my homepage. I have almost twenty Athearn Assembly Explosions posted
                      there. Hold the mouse over the picture you are viewing, an
                      enlargement button will appear at the bottom right of the picture.
                      Hope this helps you out.

                      http://groups.msn.com/HoSeeker

                      The drive Shaft connectors are a problem since they become brittle
                      and hard with age. You might try going to your automotive shop and
                      looking for some small vaccuum hoses. The vaccuum hoses are made in
                      many different sizes including inner and outer diameters I found
                      some hose a few years back that was almost identical to the little
                      rubber piece Athearn used. I just had to cut them to the proper
                      length, making sure the ends were straight so they would not throw
                      the motor out of balance. Just a suggestion that worked for me.

                      Larry

                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "steamengine4449us"
                      <steamengine4449us@y...>ife!)
                      Group: vintageHO Message: 257 From: Larry Date: 11/19/2004
                      Subject: Looking for a Motor
                      Hello

                      I am looking for an old Bowser motor and flexible drive shaft. A
                      picture of this is at the link below!

                      http://groups.msn.com/HoSeeker/trainlist4.msnw

                      Thanks
                      Group: vintageHO Message: 258 From: Garry Spear Date: 11/19/2004
                      Subject: Re: FA: EXACTA Passenger Car
                      HI Don,
                      Remember this discussion? Still lookin' for these cars? I dug my Blue
                      Lines out the other day and hve two cars to sell. The baggage and obs.

                      $40.00 includes shipping for both cars. Add $1.30 if you want
                      insurance. If interested I can supply pix. Obs is all metal car,
                      unbuilt kit. Baggage is assembled but have not checked it.

                      Garry Spear

                      Diane Morgan wrote:
                      > Which ones? I have a couple Blue Line 13 bedroom sleepers, could use a
                      > diner, baggage and observarion. (Thinking of making my "all sleeper" train
                      > smoothside, leaving the rib sides for the "mixed {sleepers and coaches}
                      > train)
                      >
                      > Don
                      >
                      > don.dellmann@...
                      > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                      > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                      > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                      > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                      > co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: Garry Spear <gspear@...>
                      > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                      > Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 11:02 AM
                      > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] FA: EXACTA Passenger Car
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >>How about Blue Line? I have some extra kits I'm considering selling.
                      >>The good news is someone has bid.
                      >>
                      >>Garry
                      >>
                      >>don.dellmann wrote:
                      >>
                      >>>If it was a sreamliner I'd have probably bid on it :-)
                      >>>
                      >>>Another old line I'm particularly fond of is Samson. Instead of being
                      >>>extruded aluminum they were made of a magnesium alloy (the same stuff
                      >
                      > "mag
                      >
                      >>>wheels" were made of).
                      >>>
                      >>>Don
                      >>
                      >>>----- Original Message -----
                      >>>From: Garry Spear <gspear@...>
                      >>>To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                      >>>Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 9:07 AM
                      >>>Subject: [vintageHO] FA: EXACTA Passenger Car
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>>Interesting old passenger car (coach) for auction.
                      >>>>
                      >>>>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5900484130
                      >>>>
                      >>>>The Exacta line of cars are from the 40s and early 50s, being sold as
                      >>>>part of the Central Lines Kits in the early 50s. They are pressed and
                      >>>>formed metal (like the Walthers kits) and the ends are also formed sheet
                      >>>>metal. The metal is copper (brass?) plated on the out side. This
                      >>>>eliminated the possibility or rust under the paint and allows the car
                      >>>>body to be soldered together. There is a wood roof and floor.
                      >>>>
                      >>>>Garry Spear
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                      >> ADVERTISEMENT
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      >
                      > ------
                      >
                      >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >>
                      >> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                      >>
                      >> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      >> vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      >>
                      >> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      Group: vintageHO Message: 259 From: don.dellmann Date: 11/20/2004
                      Subject: Re: FA: EXACTA Passenger Car
                      I'm definitely interested? Would like to see pictures first though.

                      Do either car include trucks?

                      I can't do anything about it for the next 10 days (SWMBO gives me my
                      allowance the first of every month), but yes, I am interested.

                      Don

                      don.dellmann@...
                      http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
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                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Garry Spear <gspear01@...>
                      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 10:49 PM
                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] FA: EXACTA Passenger Car


                      > HI Don,
                      > Remember this discussion? Still lookin' for these cars? I dug my Blue
                      > Lines out the other day and hve two cars to sell. The baggage and obs.
                      >
                      > $40.00 includes shipping for both cars. Add $1.30 if you want
                      > insurance. If interested I can supply pix. Obs is all metal car,
                      > unbuilt kit. Baggage is assembled but have not checked it.
                      >
                      > Garry Spear
                      >
                      > > Which ones? I have a couple Blue Line 13 bedroom sleepers, could use a
                      > > diner, baggage and observarion. (Thinking of making my "all sleeper"
                      train
                      > > smoothside, leaving the rib sides for the "mixed {sleepers and coaches}
                      > > train)
                      > >
                      > > Don
                      > >
                      > > don.dellmann@...
                      > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                      > > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                      > > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                      > > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                      > > co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                      > >
                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > From: Garry Spear <gspear@...>
                      > > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                      > > Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 11:02 AM
                      > > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] FA: EXACTA Passenger Car
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >>How about Blue Line? I have some extra kits I'm considering selling.
                      > >>The good news is someone has bid.
                      > >>
                      > >>Garry
                      > >>
                      > >>don.dellmann wrote:
                      > >>
                      > >>>If it was a sreamliner I'd have probably bid on it :-)
                      > >>>
                      > >>>Another old line I'm particularly fond of is Samson. Instead of being
                      > >>>extruded aluminum they were made of a magnesium alloy (the same stuff
                      > >
                      > > "mag
                      > >
                      > >>>wheels" were made of).
                      > >>>
                      > >>>Don
                      > >>
                      > >>>----- Original Message -----
                      > >>>From: Garry Spear <gspear@...>
                      > >>>To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                      > >>>Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 9:07 AM
                      > >>>Subject: [vintageHO] FA: EXACTA Passenger Car
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>>Interesting old passenger car (coach) for auction.
                      > >>>>
                      > >>>>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5900484130
                      > >>>>
                      > >>>>The Exacta line of cars are from the 40s and early 50s, being sold as
                      > >>>>part of the Central Lines Kits in the early 50s. They are pressed and
                      > >>>>formed metal (like the Walthers kits) and the ends are also formed
                      sheet
                      > >>>>metal. The metal is copper (brass?) plated on the out side. This
                      > >>>>eliminated the possibility or rust under the paint and allows the car
                      > >>>>body to be soldered together. There is a wood roof and floor.
                      > >>>>
                      > >>>>Garry Spear
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                      > >> ADVERTISEMENT
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      >
                      >>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      > >
                      > > ------
                      > >
                      > >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >>
                      > >> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                      > >>
                      > >> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > >> vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > >>
                      > >> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                      Service.
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                      > ADVERTISEMENT
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      ------
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                      >
                      > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      Group: vintageHO Message: 260 From: Bud Date: 11/20/2004
                      Subject: New Member
                      Hi, I'm Bud Leggett from Leesburg, GA.
                      I, too, like the old vintage equipment from the 1950s. I was born in
                      1962 so I really came of age in the Tyco/Disco/plastic AHM age of the
                      early to mid 1970s...but I was fascinated by all the equipment I saw
                      in "The Complete Book of Model Railroading" (good title, and true)
                      and was just fascinated by all these brands like Mantua, Revell,
                      Ulrich, and Varney. I never would've dreamed I'd actually own the
                      stuff, though...
                      And then I'd go to Train Shows and a flea market and see a lot of it
                      going for fantastically low prices....sometimes it'd have some rust
                      damage or a broken spot here or there, but I could fix that.
                      So now my collection does include some Varney and Ulrich. Whenever
                      possible, I have left it in the paint scheme it came in.
                      I like imagining what it must have been like to be a model railroader
                      in the 1950s and early 1960s.
                      I'm sure I'm going to enjoy this group.
                      Bud
                      Group: vintageHO Message: 261 From: tcol01@earthlink.net Date: 11/20/2004
                      Subject: Re: rubber connectors for drive shafts
                      On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 Don wrote:

                      >
                      >From the hobby shop, model airplane fuel line. If you can still find the
                      >old neoprene stuff it's best, although the modern silicone tubing will work,
                      >just not as well (it's a little on the soft side.)

                      I'm totally a tinplater these days but still have much of my
                      vintage, 1950-1970s era H0 in display case. But your suggestion
                      of neoprene rang a bell and made me check my old parts case. Not
                      sure what it is made of. but I replace many of the rubber tubing
                      connectors in motor drive trains with medical tubing I got from
                      some Army medic friends of mine during my service years. I
                      believe it's used for IVs etc.

                      It comes in assorted diameters and have color coded tabs on it to
                      indicate size. All of mine have green tabs. And it will stay
                      flexible for years.


                      Ray Hobin
                      NMRA Life # 1735; TCA # HR-78-12540; ARHS # 2421
                      Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
                      Group: vintageHO Message: 262 From: Bud Date: 11/20/2004
                      Subject: C&O Boxcar
                      I wonder if anyone can give me some information on this boxcar. It is
                      boxcar red (actually a dark brown) and is lettered for the Chesapeake
                      and Ohio. It's a metal car and I'm pretty sure its close to 50 years
                      young but I have no idea whether its an Ulrich, Varney or metal
                      Athearn. Can someone give me any idea? It's a single door '40 model.
                      As I type this, its at a siding, full of dog food and waiting to be
                      unloaded at Payne Farm Supply in "Middle Alabama"....
                      Thanks,
                      Bud Leggett
                      Group: vintageHO Message: 263 From: don.dellmann Date: 11/20/2004
                      Subject: Re: C&O Boxcar
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Bud <stratboy39@...>
                      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 1:56 PM
                      Subject: [vintageHO] C&O Boxcar


                      >
                      >
                      > I wonder if anyone can give me some information on this boxcar. It is
                      > boxcar red (actually a dark brown) and is lettered for the Chesapeake
                      > and Ohio. It's a metal car and I'm pretty sure its close to 50 years
                      > young but I have no idea whether its an Ulrich, Varney or metal
                      > Athearn. Can someone give me any idea? It's a single door '40 model.
                      > As I type this, its at a siding, full of dog food and waiting to be
                      > unloaded at Payne Farm Supply in "Middle Alabama"....
                      > Thanks,
                      > Bud Leggett

                      Can you post some photos of it? Ideally a side or 3/4 view, and an
                      underframe shot (often a giveaway as to who made it). Either post them here
                      as attachments, or make an album in the "photos" section and post them
                      there.

                      Otherwise, a little more information would be of help. When you say "metal"
                      is it a heavy die cast model (Ulrich, MDC, Red Ball etc.) or light gauge
                      sheet metal (Athearn, Varney, Globe etc.). Sometimes the lettering and road
                      number are of help too (although often more than one manufacturer put the
                      same number on the side of the car).

                      Don

                      don.dellmann@...
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                      Group: vintageHO Message: 264 From: stratboy39@aol.com Date: 11/20/2004
                      Subject: Re: C&O Boxcar
                      Hi, Don...
                      The road number is 15806 and it's light-gauge metal, not die cast.
                                                                                                                                Bud
                      Group: vintageHO Message: 265 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/20/2004
                      Subject: Re: C&O Boxcar
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: <stratboy39@...>
                      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 5:03 PM
                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] C&O Boxcar


                      > Hi, Don...
                      > The road number is 15806 and it's light-gauge metal, not die cast.
                      >
                      > Bud
                      >

                      That eliminates MDC and Ulrich. Photos would really help.

                      Don

                      don.dellmann@...
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                      Group: vintageHO Message: 266 From: stratboy39@aol.com Date: 11/20/2004
                      Subject: Re: C&O Boxcar
                      In a message dated 11/20/2004 7:57:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, don.dellmann@... writes:

                      That eliminates MDC and Ulrich.  Photos would really help.

                      Don


                      Wish I could, Don, but you'd only see some blurry photos! lol I haven't gotten the hang of crisp indoor photography just yet!
                                                                                                                                 Bud
                      Group: vintageHO Message: 267 From: don.dellmann Date: 11/20/2004
                      Subject: Re: C&O Boxcar
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: <stratboy39@...>
                      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 6:09 PM
                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] C&O Boxcar


                      > In a message dated 11/20/2004 7:57:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                      > don.dellmann@... writes:
                      >
                      > > That eliminates MDC and Ulrich. Photos would really help.
                      > >
                      > > Don
                      > >
                      >
                      > Wish I could, Don, but you'd only see some blurry photos! lol I haven't
                      > gotten the hang of crisp indoor photography just yet!
                      >
                      > Bud
                      >

                      Well, hopefully someone will be able to help. I looked through my old
                      catalogs but didn't see that road number.

                      Don

                      don.dellmann@...
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                      Group: vintageHO Message: 268 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/20/2004
                      Subject: Photo albums
                      I redid my photo albums, made a sub-album for each manufacturer. The
                      freight cars are pretty well done, added lots of new pics. Now I can do the
                      locomotives and passenger cars.

                      Don

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                      Group: vintageHO Message: 269 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 11/20/2004
                      Subject: Re: C&O Boxcar
                      Hi Bud,  It appears that your C & O - For Progress (#15806) Luminous is an Athearn metal car; kit # 177.  While a picture may have helped, its still fairly easy to determine who made it by process of elimination.  Varney did not produce C & O in metal.  Globe and IMP  (International Model Products) produced C & O only as a "C&O Aluminum" silver-colored car.  Athearn did produce this roadname and roadnumber and can be the only one to have done so.  They produced 15 known roadnumbers for C & O (and this is one of them).    Ray Wetzel
                      Group: vintageHO Message: 270 From: Larry Date: 11/20/2004
                      Subject: Re: C&O Boxcar
                      I agree with the earlier post. This most likely is Athearn Metal Kit
                      177. At least that what is listed in Greensberg's Guide to Athearn
                      Trains.

                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Bud" <stratboy39@a...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > I wonder if anyone can give me some information on this boxcar. It
                      is
                      > boxcar red (actually a dark brown) and is lettered for the
                      Chesapeake
                      > and Ohio. It's a metal car and I'm pretty sure its close to 50
                      years
                      > young but I have no idea whether its an Ulrich, Varney or metal
                      > Athearn. Can someone give me any idea? It's a single door '40
                      model.
                      > As I type this, its at a siding, full of dog food and waiting to be
                      > unloaded at Payne Farm Supply in "Middle Alabama"....
                      > Thanks,
                      > Bud Leggett
                      Group: vintageHO Message: 271 From: stratboy39@aol.com Date: 11/21/2004
                      Subject: Re: C&O Boxcar
                      Hey, thanks Ray (and rest of group), that's great. Sounds like you guys are really on the ball about model rr equipment and the past. Do you have any idea how old that car is? Can you speculate? Again, thanks, everybody.
                                                                                                                                   Bud
                      Group: vintageHO Message: 272 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 11/21/2004
                      Subject: Re: C&O Boxcar
                      For the most part, the Athearn metal cars were produced from 1948 through 1954, with the roadnumbers often being changed with each new run.  Much of the production, however, was continued 'till 1957.  If you had the original box, that would also help to pinpoint the timeframe a little closer, as the artwork on the kit boxes was changed over the years.  With the O scale runs of this C & O car, all of them were printed with luminous lettering.  Not all of the HO scale runs were printed with this luminous lettering.  Yours (#15806) was made towards the latter part of metal car production, and should have the luminous lettering.  Try holding the car up to a light bulb and then put it in the dark.  The lettering should glow.                                Between 1959 and 1960, G.F. Menzies bought out the Athearn metal line, including all of Athearn's pre-printed sides and dies for making the stamped roofs and ends, etc.  I believe Menzies may have briefly continued the C & O car at that time, but that production would only have included whatever sides ( and numbers) were already pre-printed by Athearn.  After assembly, the cars are virtually impossible to tell apart (Menzies vs Athearn), but for all intents and purposes, unless printed by Menzies, these are all Athearn cars, just packaged differently.  If needed, I'll dig into the Menzies part of my collection to check on that; I have all of whatever they made.  Also have 10 of the 15 C & O cars Athearn made including your #15806.  Menzies did print their own sides after they ran out of Athearn  sides, but these were different roadnumbers; they also produced other roadnames.                                                                                   Due to time constraints, we were not able to include all production information concerning G.F. Menzies in the Greenberg/Athearn Guide.  As such, much of what Menzies carried over from Athearn was inadvertantly left out.  Ray Wetzel
                      Group: vintageHO Message: 273 From: stratboy39@aol.com Date: 11/21/2004
                      Subject: Re: C&O Boxcar
                      First off, thanks!
                      No, uhm, unfortunately, I bought that car at a flea market sans box, just the shell and floor on a beer flat along with some plastic Tyco junk and a metal heavyweight passenger car that I have no idea as to the age of. Sorry I don't have the box...then we'd probably be able to pinpoint it for sure, huh?
                      It's just great that you've been able to pinpoint its origin to that date...I had no idea the cars were that old. There's a slight bit of rust on one side of the car, but that-in my opinion- adds to the working-railroad aspect of the car, the rust makes it look more like reality.
                                                                                                                                       Bud
                      Group: vintageHO Message: 274 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 11/21/2004
                      Subject: Re: C&O Boxcar
                      Hi Bud,  I realized, of course, that you never had the box to begin with or you wouldn't be asking who the manufacturer was in the first place.  But, was just trying to point out that if you (or anyone) had the box an item came in, it could be dated by that. with Athearn cars.  Looks like you got some weathering on it, no extra charge.  As "shell and floor", I presume you got roof and ends so it just needs trucks?  If so, nice find!  Ray
                      Group: vintageHO Message: 275 From: stratboy39@aol.com Date: 11/22/2004
                      Subject: Re: C&O Boxcar
                      Yeah, that was it, Ray. No trucks. Needless to say, it was in pretty unglamourous shape, but I worked and worked with it because I love to get deals and take something somebody else doesn't want and make it useful. That's really satisfying to me.
                                                                                                                                   Bud
                      Group: vintageHO Message: 276 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/27/2004
                      Subject: New photos
                      I started a couple new sub albums in my photos folder on the list website,
                      "locomotives" and "passenger cars", a couple their you may enjoy.

                      Don

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                      Group: vintageHO Message: 277 From: Larry Date: 11/27/2004
                      Subject: Re: New photos
                      Hello Don

                      I like the Varney Passenger Cars! Where did you find those? I have
                      been playing with my camera the past few days, so I will post a
                      temporary file with a few pictures. They will be mostly Bowser
                      Engines and Various old Rolling Stock. Just let me know when your
                      space is getting low and I will delete them.

                      Larry

                      File in your photo section of
                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...>
                      wrote:
                      > I started a couple new sub albums in my photos folder on the list
                      website,
                      > "locomotives" and "passenger cars", a couple their you may enjoy.
                      >
                      > Don
                      >
                      > don.dellmann@p...
                      > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
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                      Group: vintageHO Message: 278 From: don.dellmann Date: 11/28/2004
                      Subject: Re: New photos
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Larry <seekingho@...>
                      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2004 8:43 PM
                      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: New photos


                      >
                      > Hello Don
                      >
                      > I like the Varney Passenger Cars! Where did you find those? I have
                      > been playing with my camera the past few days, so I will post a
                      > temporary file with a few pictures. They will be mostly Bowser
                      > Engines and Various old Rolling Stock. Just let me know when your
                      > space is getting low and I will delete them.
                      >
                      > Larry

                      eBay.

                      I have 6 of them. I got 1 combine in gray a couple years ago, then saw
                      another auction for 4 cars (baggage, mail, pullman and observation) about a
                      year ago. In the auction pics they looked gray, but when I got them they
                      were blue. :-(

                      Then, about 4 months ago I found another blue pullman in a lot of half a
                      dozen cars (including a couple pre 1959 Walthers cars that are still on the
                      workbench) and there was ONE blue coach side in there. If I can come up
                      with a way to duplicate, I'll redo the original combine so it matches. I
                      should have pics of the rest of the cars in the photo album by this evening
                      some time. I'm currently working on getting an archive shot of every piece
                      of rolling stock in my collection just for my own records, the ones I put up
                      here are just the ones that fit my definition of "vintage" (pre early
                      1960's).

                      They're out there, prices are reasonable ( $ 5 - $ 10 a car) you just have
                      to watch for them.

                      As far as your pics, make an album in the "photos" section with your name on
                      it, and upload them there, please don't put pics in the "files" section.
                      I'd prefer that left for text files or scans of things like catalog pages
                      and instruction sheets.

                      I haven't made it a "rule" YET (I have in some of my other groups, I'm
                      watching space here to see if we need it), but a tip for uploading
                      photos....
                      After you upload your pictures, click on EACH one, then click on "full
                      size". When the picture is displayed, click on "delete full size only".
                      This will still leave the "viewing size" picture that everyone else can see
                      (only the album owner and moderators can even SEE the "full size" pics),
                      plus it will allow MUCH more space for everyone's photos. (the "full size"
                      pics vs. the "viewing size" pics take up file space on a ration of about 10
                      to 1)

                      Don

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                      Group: vintageHO Message: 279 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/28/2004
                      Subject: More pics
                      Added some more photos to my "Locomotives" and "Passenger Cars" folders in
                      my photo album, including the rest of the Varney streamliners, and some cars
                      from Samson, Blue Line and Herkimer.

                      Don

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                      Group: vintageHO Message: 280 From: Larry Date: 12/2/2004
                      Subject: Picture
                      Hello Don

                      I added another picture to my Folder (Larry) in the Photo section.
                      The picture is of some of the older cars I have in my collection
                      which I plan using on my next layout. One of my future projects is
                      assembling a few Ulrich Hoppers and Gondolas. I just finished a
                      another task a few weeks ago. This consisted of assembling and
                      painting eighteen old metal Roundhouse 22'Ore Cars. I will post a
                      picture of some of these Ore Cars some time in the future. There is
                      just something about assembling these old wood and metal kits that
                      give me a feeling of accomplishment. Even more so, then assembling
                      newer plastic kits.

                      Larry
                      Group: vintageHO Message: 281 From: Don Riley Date: 12/2/2004
                      Subject: Re: Picture
                      You have one cool fleet there! Of course that SP Northern does not look very GSish. But anyway. That crane is so cool!!!
                       
                      Indeed I understand what you mean about those kits! I have several of them here and they are detailed like crazy!
                       
                      I also have two of the classic MDC Ore cars. Very cute!!
                       
                      Steamengine 4449

                      Larry <seekingho@...> wrote:
                      I added another picture to my Folder (Larry) in the Photo section. 
                      The picture is of some of the older cars I have in my collection
                      which I plan using on my next layout.  One of my future projects is
                      assembling a few Ulrich Hoppers and Gondolas.  I just finished a
                      another task a few weeks ago.  This consisted of assembling and
                      painting eighteen old metal Roundhouse 22'Ore Cars.  I will post a
                      picture of some of these Ore Cars some time in the future.  There is
                      just something about assembling these old wood and metal kits that
                      give me a feeling of accomplishment.  Even more so, then assembling
                      newer plastic kits.

                      Larry 

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                      Group: vintageHO Message: 282 From: don.dellmann Date: 12/2/2004
                      Subject: Re: Picture
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Larry <seekingho@...>
                      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 3:47 PM
                      Subject: [vintageHO] Picture


                      >
                      > Hello Don
                      >
                      > I added another picture to my Folder (Larry) in the Photo section.
                      > The picture is of some of the older cars I have in my collection
                      > which I plan using on my next layout. One of my future projects is
                      > assembling a few Ulrich Hoppers and Gondolas. I just finished a
                      > another task a few weeks ago. This consisted of assembling and
                      > painting eighteen old metal Roundhouse 22'Ore Cars. I will post a
                      > picture of some of these Ore Cars some time in the future. There is
                      > just something about assembling these old wood and metal kits that
                      > give me a feeling of accomplishment. Even more so, then assembling
                      > newer plastic kits.
                      >
                      > Larry

                      Nice. I've always been fond of the Silver Streak crane. Is yours metal or
                      later plastiv version (AFAIK still available)?

                      One of these days I'll get my crane fixed (need to rerig the hooks). It's a
                      200 tonner from Red Ball with a silver streak wood crane tender.

                      Don

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                      Group: vintageHO Message: 283 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/3/2004
                      Subject: Another locomotive
                      Added another picture to the "Locomotives" sub album in my photo album on
                      the group home page. This is an original (ca. late 50's) plastic frame Geep
                      in original paint, riding on a Hobbytown Chassis.

                      Have another interesting car coming courtesy of eBay, an MKT 50' auto box
                      from MDC from the time when they wanted to get into plastic (ca. 1960 or so)
                      and started with their own paint on bodies supplied by Athearn. Will be
                      interesting to see if it has the MDC metal underframe (I believe it's
                      supposed to), I'll post pics when it comes (should be a day or so, it was
                      mailed yesterday).

                      Don

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                      Group: vintageHO Message: 284 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/5/2004
                      Subject: More Passenger Cars
                      Added four more passenger car pictures to my Passenger Var photo album, this
                      time KMT, Herkimer, Kasiner and Blue Line.

                      Don

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                      Group: vintageHO Message: 285 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 12/5/2004
                      Subject: Re: More Passenger Cars
                      Don,  Nice looking group of new additions here.  Also, while you've done a nice job with painting them, I especially like what you've done with the Sampson cars.  By the way, a couple of my  Sampson kits have oxidized, the metal carbodies turning dark.  Any suggestions on how to brighten them up again (use liquid metal cleaner?)?                                                                                                Noticing you mainly collect the streamlined cars, you might also look for these early manufacturers to name a few; Exacta/Central Lines, Mantua, Chester, American Beauty, Con-Cor, MHP (Wright Enterprises), Limited Editions and of course Walthers.  Hope these names have brought back some memories for a few of the members.  Happy collecting!  Ray    
                      Group: vintageHO Message: 286 From: tcol01@earthlink.net Date: 12/5/2004
                      Subject: More Passenger Cars
                      erieberk@... on Sun, 5 Dec 2004 postulated:
                      >
                      >Don, Nice looking group of new additions here. Also, while you've done a
                      >nice job with painting them, I especially like what you've done with the Sampson
                      >cars. By the way, a couple of my Sampson kits have oxidized, the metal
                      >carbodies turning dark. Any suggestions on how to brighten them up again (use
                      >liquid metal cleaner?)?

                      I am not familiar with Sampson kits, but to brighten up darkened
                      metal on prototype Adlake Kero RR lanterns I have had success
                      with WD-40 and scrubbing with 0000 steel wool. Might want to try
                      that on a car inside area.

                      Good old "Brasso" works well on other than brass which I use to
                      brighten up Lionel steam loco side and main rods.


                      Ray Hobin
                      NMRA Life # 1735; TCA # HR-78-12540; ARHS # 2421
                      Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
                      Group: vintageHO Message: 287 From: railphotog Date: 12/5/2004
                      Subject: Lurker checking in
                      Hi all,

                      I've been lurking on this list for a short while. I'm not really
                      into collecting/operating vintage HO equipment, but I do have a few
                      that I've accumulated over the years.

                      I have several metal Athearn RDC's - powered & dummies: RDC-1, RDC-2
                      and an RDC-4. Is there much interest or collectiblity of these
                      models? I've heard very little of them over the years.

                      I recently acquired a Globe A & B F-7 dummy set from a friend. They
                      are both decorated for UP. Again, any interest in these? They are
                      in the original boxes, unassembled, with original instructions. The
                      B unit is missing one truck, this is the way I got it.

                      Thanks!

                      Bob Boudreau
                      Canada
                      Group: vintageHO Message: 288 From: Wobbly913 Date: 12/5/2004
                      Subject: Re: Lurker checking in
                      Bob
                       
                      Both items are collectable.  If you look on ebay you will find those items and many more on a fairly ongoing basis.  I just bought a Union Pacific F7A there this morning and have bought several others at various times.  I have also collected several Athearn RDC's both powered and dummy.
                       
                      Wobbly913

                      railphotog <railphotog@...> wrote:


                      Hi all,

                      I've been lurking on this list for a short while.  I'm not really
                      into collecting/operating vintage HO equipment, but I do have a few
                      that I've accumulated over the years.

                      I have several metal Athearn RDC's - powered & dummies: RDC-1, RDC-2
                      and an RDC-4.  Is there much interest or collectiblity of these
                      models?  I've heard very little of them over the years.

                      I recently acquired a Globe A & B F-7 dummy set from a friend.  They
                      are both decorated for UP.   Again, any interest in these?  They are
                      in the original boxes, unassembled, with original instructions.  The
                      B unit is missing one truck, this is the way I got it.

                      Thanks!

                      Bob Boudreau
                      Canada








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                      Group: vintageHO Message: 289 From: railphotog Date: 12/5/2004
                      Subject: Re: Lurker checking in
                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Wobbly913 <wobbly913@y...> wrote:
                      > Bob
                      >
                      > Both items are collectable. If you look on ebay you will find
                      those items and many more on a fairly ongoing basis. I just bought
                      a Union Pacific F7A there this morning and have bought several
                      others at various times. I have also collected several Athearn
                      RDC's both powered and dummy.


                      Thanks for the reply! I did check eBay a while ago for the RDC's,
                      but the prices they were going for did not seem to indicate there
                      was much interest. I don't recall the specific prices, but seem to
                      think they were around $20.00 or so. I paid this much and more for
                      the ones I have some 15-20 years ago (before eBay!). The recent
                      rubber band powered plastic models were around the same prices.

                      Same with the Globe dummy F-7's, not much interest money-wise
                      either. And this was in the past year.

                      Guess I'll just let them continue to gather dust on my shelves
                      rather than give them away.

                      Bob Boudreau
                      Canada
                      Group: vintageHO Message: 290 From: Don Riley Date: 12/5/2004
                      Subject: Re: Lurker checking in
                      Well ebay veries a bit! I have seen some stuff take flight and other stuff fizzle. It is all a chance. I paid about that much for my old RDCs and Globes. I have a beautiful ABA set of SP Globes and I did not pay a huge amount for them. They date to the 50's.
                      You will likely never get rich on Athearn or Globe but some of the metal models do sell for $20 or more!
                       
                      Also rubber band drive engines can sell for a bunch if several people all want the same engine!
                       
                      Steamengine 4449
                      Collector Athearn Globe and Varney

                      railphotog <railphotog@...> wrote:
                      Thanks for the reply!  I did check eBay a while ago for the RDC's,
                      but the prices they were going for did not seem to indicate there
                      was much interest.  I don't recall the specific prices, but seem to
                      think they were around $20.00 or so.  I paid this much and more for
                      the ones I have some 15-20 years ago (before eBay!).  The recent
                      rubber band powered plastic models were around the same prices.

                      Same with the Globe dummy F-7's, not much interest money-wise
                      either.  And this was in the past year.

                      Guess I'll just let them continue to gather dust on my shelves
                      rather than give them away.

                      Bob Boudreau
                      Canada


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                      Group: vintageHO Message: 291 From: don.dellmann Date: 12/5/2004
                      Subject: Re: More Passenger Cars
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: <erieberk@...>
                      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 9:01 AM
                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] More Passenger Cars


                      > Don, Nice looking group of new additions here. Also, while you've done a
                      > nice job with painting them, I especially like what you've done with the
                      Sampson
                      > cars. By the way, a couple of my Sampson kits have oxidized, the metal
                      > carbodies turning dark. Any suggestions on how to brighten them up again
                      (use
                      > liquid metal cleaner?)?
                      > Noticing you mainly collect the
                      > streamlined cars, you might also look for these early manufacturers to
                      name a few;
                      > Exacta/Central Lines, Mantua, Chester, American Beauty, Con-Cor, MHP
                      (Wright
                      > Enterprises), Limited Editions and of course Walthers. Hope these names
                      have
                      > brought back some memories for a few of the members. Happy collecting!
                      Ray
                      >

                      I've noticed the tarnish on older Samsons, I don't worry about it. I add
                      the full length letterboards from .020 styrene, so the cars get painted,
                      even when they're going to be silver. Samson kits were actually made from
                      an aluminum/megnesium alloy, makes an interesting model. They almost feel
                      like they're made of plastic!

                      I had some American Beauty years ago, beautiful cars, may get some more.
                      I've never seen "live" an Exacta/Central, Chester or MHP, I have some
                      Con-Cors but they're too new for this group's focus so I didn't post them.

                      Limited editions only brings back BAD memories! Had a couple of them (still
                      have the pieces in the junk box), could never get one together!

                      Now Walthers OTOH, I really regret getting rid of the heavyweights I had, (I
                      did a complete Milwaukee Road Pioneer Limited, pulled by a PFM F-6a Baltic,
                      which alas I also no longer have.) I do have a couple pre-1959 Walther's
                      cars on the workbench awaiting salvage. I'll post them when I get them
                      running.

                      Don

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                      Group: vintageHO Message: 292 From: Larry Date: 12/5/2004
                      Subject: Re: More Passenger Cars
                      More nice looking passenger cars Don. What do you use for motive
                      power to pull these? I do have a question about a OK Streamliner
                      car. I have an OK Herkimer observation car and the rear zinc alloy
                      piece is broken. (this piece is at the rear of the car and has a
                      little window in it, when it is missing, it leaves about a half inch
                      gap between the two sides) Do you have any suggestions on repairing
                      or replacing it? I can post a picture if you need it.

                      Larry

                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...>
                      wrote:
                      > Added four more passenger car pictures to my Passenger Var photo
                      album, this
                      > time KMT, Herkimer, Kasiner and Blue Line.
                      >
                      > Don
                      >
                      > don.dellmann@p...
                      > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
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                      Group: vintageHO Message: 293 From: don.dellmann Date: 12/5/2004
                      Subject: Re: More Passenger Cars
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Larry <seekingho@...>
                      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 9:55 PM
                      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: More Passenger Cars


                      >
                      > More nice looking passenger cars Don. What do you use for motive
                      > power to pull these? I do have a question about a OK Streamliner
                      > car. I have an OK Herkimer observation car and the rear zinc alloy
                      > piece is broken. (this piece is at the rear of the car and has a
                      > little window in it, when it is missing, it leaves about a half inch
                      > gap between the two sides) Do you have any suggestions on repairing
                      > or replacing it? I can post a picture if you need it.
                      >
                      > Larry

                      Some observations had a vestibule door there (although that's more common on
                      the "square end" types. I have a spare from an old Limited Editions car
                      that may fit if you want it.

                      Don

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                      Group: vintageHO Message: 294 From: don.dellmann Date: 12/6/2004
                      Subject: Re: More Passenger Cars
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Larry <seekingho@...>
                      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 9:55 PM
                      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: More Passenger Cars


                      >
                      > More nice looking passenger cars Don. What do you use for motive
                      > power to pull these? I do have a question about a OK Streamliner
                      > car. I have an OK Herkimer observation car and the rear zinc alloy
                      > piece is broken. (this piece is at the rear of the car and has a
                      > little window in it, when it is missing, it leaves about a half inch
                      > gap between the two sides) Do you have any suggestions on repairing
                      > or replacing it? I can post a picture if you need it.
                      >
                      > Larry

                      I forgot to answer your first question. Normal power is pair of LL P-2000
                      E-9's. (See I DO have stuff that's NOT vintage), but when I feel nostalgic,
                      I substiture a pair of Hobbytown E-7's (but they're still under
                      construction).

                      I can only run them on a friend's layout, my curves are too sharp, but he
                      recently converted to DCC, so he offered to buy a couple units and have me
                      paint them in my colors for him, don't know what he'll come up with.

                      Don

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                      Group: vintageHO Message: 295 From: Garry Spear Date: 12/6/2004
                      Subject: Re: Digest Number 84
                      OK Herkimer is still in business manufacturing HO gauge Passenger cars.
                      They may still be using the part.

                      Garry Spear


                      > Message: 1
                      > Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2004 03:55:17 -0000
                      > From: "Larry" <seekingho@...>
                      > Subject: Re: More Passenger Cars
                      >
                      >
                      > More nice looking passenger cars Don. What do you use for motive
                      > power to pull these? I do have a question about a OK Streamliner
                      > car. I have an OK Herkimer observation car and the rear zinc alloy
                      > piece is broken. (this piece is at the rear of the car and has a
                      > little window in it, when it is missing, it leaves about a half inch
                      > gap between the two sides) Do you have any suggestions on repairing
                      > or replacing it? I can post a picture if you need it.
                      >
                      > Larry
                      Group: vintageHO Message: 296 From: Larry Date: 12/7/2004
                      Subject: Re: Digest Number 84
                      After a little bit of searching I did find OK Herkimer's Website.
                      Thanks for the info Garry, I had no idea that OK Herkimer was still
                      in business. I will post the link to the Links section of this site.

                      http://www.okengines.com/

                      Larry


                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Garry Spear <gspear01@e...> wrote:
                      > OK Herkimer is still in business manufacturing HO gauge Passenger
                      cars.
                      > They may still be using the part.
                      >
                      > Garry Spear
                      >
                      >
                      > > Message: 1
                      > > Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2004 03:55:17 -0000
                      > > From: "Larry" <seekingho@y...>
                      > > Subject: Re: More Passenger Cars
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > More nice looking passenger cars Don. What do you use for motive
                      > > power to pull these? I do have a question about a OK Streamliner
                      > > car. I have an OK Herkimer observation car and the rear zinc
                      alloy
                      > > piece is broken. (this piece is at the rear of the car and has a
                      > > little window in it, when it is missing, it leaves about a half
                      inch
                      > > gap between the two sides) Do you have any suggestions on
                      repairing
                      > > or replacing it? I can post a picture if you need it.
                      > >
                      > > Larry
                      Group: vintageHO Message: 297 From: don.dellmann Date: 12/7/2004
                      Subject: Re: Digest Number 84
                      FWIW, the part in question looks easy enough to fabricate in styrene. The
                      "limited editions" casting I have is probably too large to fit (although
                      I'll try to dig it out of the scrapbox and send you a scan offlist as soon
                      as I can).

                      Don

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                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Larry <seekingho@...>
                      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 1:16 PM
                      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Digest Number 84


                      >
                      > After a little bit of searching I did find OK Herkimer's Website.
                      > Thanks for the info Garry, I had no idea that OK Herkimer was still
                      > in business. I will post the link to the Links section of this site.
                      >
                      > http://www.okengines.com/
                      >
                      > Larry
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Garry Spear <gspear01@e...> wrote:
                      > > OK Herkimer is still in business manufacturing HO gauge Passenger
                      > cars.
                      > > They may still be using the part.
                      > >
                      > > Garry Spear
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > > Message: 1
                      > > > Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2004 03:55:17 -0000
                      > > > From: "Larry" <seekingho@y...>
                      > > > Subject: Re: More Passenger Cars
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > More nice looking passenger cars Don. What do you use for motive
                      > > > power to pull these? I do have a question about a OK Streamliner
                      > > > car. I have an OK Herkimer observation car and the rear zinc
                      > alloy
                      > > > piece is broken. (this piece is at the rear of the car and has a
                      > > > little window in it, when it is missing, it leaves about a half
                      > inch
                      > > > gap between the two sides) Do you have any suggestions on
                      > repairing
                      > > > or replacing it? I can post a picture if you need it.
                      > > >
                      > > > Larry
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
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                      Group: vintageHO Message: 298 From: Larry Date: 12/7/2004
                      Subject: Re: Digest Number 84
                      Don

                      There is no need to go to all the trouble finding that part. If you
                      have already Thank You. I have emailed OK herkimer and they do have
                      the part. They also have parts for most all of their old cars. Now I
                      have to go pullout all my OK cars and make up a list. At their web
                      site they have a price list of all the parts they still make. You
                      need Adobe reader to view this. I was totally amazed they were still
                      in business and offered parts for old cars plus new cars for sale. I
                      thought they went out of business years ago. I appreciate the effort
                      you put into finding the part for me. Your group and Garry were also
                      a big help by making me aware that OK was still around.

                      Wow.. this is like getting a whole new passenger train. They even
                      have the decals. If you should need some parts for your OK cars and
                      would like me to send the order address let me know.

                      Thanks lot

                      Larry


                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...>
                      wrote:
                      > FWIW, the part in question looks easy enough to fabricate in
                      styrene. The
                      > "limited editions" casting I have is probably too large to fit
                      (although
                      > I'll try to dig it out of the scrapbox and send you a scan offlist
                      as soon
                      > as I can).
                      >
                      > Don
                      Group: vintageHO Message: 299 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/11/2004
                      Subject: New pics and a new aquisition
                      Attachments :
                        Here's something you don't see every day. Ca. 1960 or so, MDC wanted to get
                        into Plastic kits. Until they could make their own dies, their first three
                        offerings were bodies supplied by Athearn, painted by MDC, with MDC metal
                        underframes. (Got this last week on eBay for Six bucks).

                        Also added another sub album to my photos album on the group page.
                        "Scenerey..." has some Varney and plaster autos and trucks.

                        Don

                        don.dellmann@...
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                        Group: vintageHO Message: 300 From: Dave Slater Date: 12/11/2004
                        Subject: Re: New pics and a new aquisition
                        I think I had some of those "kits" years ago, I just might still have an assembled one down in the "dungeon"  if I dig deep enough. That sort of looks like one that's don there..... Maybe... I know if I do have one the box is long gone to wherever old boxes go..
                        Dave S.

                        Don Dellmann wrote:

                         Here's something you don't see every day.  Ca. 1960 or so, MDC wanted to get
                        into Plastic kits.  Until they could make their own dies, their first three
                        offerings were bodies supplied by Athearn, painted by MDC, with MDC metal
                        underframes.  (Got this last week on eBay for Six bucks).

                        Also added another sub album to my photos album on the group page.
                        "Scenerey..." has some Varney and plaster autos and trucks.

                        Don

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                        Group: vintageHO Message: 301 From: Gerry D Date: 12/11/2004
                        Subject: Re: New pics and a new aquisition
                        Attachments :
                          Nice grab Don!
                          I took a side trip to your web pages on Geocities,
                          impressive!
                          I grabbed my third MDC metal balast car. (Attached
                          Picture) painted for Roundhouse Products!
                          I was searching Ebay myself for another few items. The
                          results of which can be seen at:
                          http://www.ourpage.com/tyco
                          I'll be building a wall shelf for the set of 12 over
                          the holidays.
                          By the way, what did you use for your "trees"?
                          Cordially,
                          Gerry



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                          Group: vintageHO Message: 302 From: don.dellmann Date: 12/11/2004
                          Subject: Re: New pics and a new aquisition
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Gerry D <gerard_sr@...>
                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 6:22 PM
                          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] New pics and a new aquisition


                          > Nice grab Don!
                          > I took a side trip to your web pages on Geocities,
                          > impressive!
                          > I grabbed my third MDC metal balast car. (Attached
                          > Picture) painted for Roundhouse Products!
                          > I was searching Ebay myself for another few items. The
                          > results of which can be seen at:
                          > http://www.ourpage.com/tyco
                          > I'll be building a wall shelf for the set of 12 over
                          > the holidays.
                          > By the way, what did you use for your "trees"?
                          > Cordially,
                          > Gerry

                          The metal ballast cars are a rare find too. I wouldn't mind havng one
                          myself.
                          I enjoyed your page, although I was more impressed by the "kitbash" page!

                          Thanks for the compliment on my trees. I love having people ask me how I
                          made them, because I can say "I didn't, God did."

                          They're nothing more than weeds clipped off after the first hard frost.

                          Don

                          don.dellmann@...
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                          Group: vintageHO Message: 303 From: Larry Date: 12/11/2004
                          Subject: Re: New pics and a new aquisition
                          For some reason I didn't get the email with the pictures of the
                          MDC/Athearn Kits. I do have a GATX Tankcar that has a plastic tank
                          made by Athearn and a metal under frame by roundhouse. As for the
                          roundhouse/MDC ballast cars those are nice and I also would like to
                          find some those. I was going to buy one on Ebay a while ago, but the
                          price just got too high.

                          Larry

                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...>
                          wrote:
                          > Here's something you don't see every day. Ca. 1960 or so, MDC
                          wanted to get
                          > into Plastic kits. Until they could make their own dies, their
                          first three
                          > offerings were bodies supplied by Athearn, painted by MDC, with MDC
                          metal
                          > underframes. (Got this last week on eBay for Six bucks).
                          >
                          > Also added another sub album to my photos album on the group page.
                          > "Scenerey..." has some Varney and plaster autos and trucks.
                          >
                          > Don
                          >
                          > don.dellmann@p...
                          > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                          > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                          > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                          > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                          > co-moderator: SCENERY@Y...
                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                          Group: vintageHO Message: 304 From: Diane Morgan Date: 12/12/2004
                          Subject: Re: New pics and a new aquisition
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Larry <seekingho@...>
                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 8:40 PM
                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: New pics and a new aquisition


                          >
                          > For some reason I didn't get the email with the pictures of the
                          > MDC/Athearn Kits. I do have a GATX Tankcar that has a plastic tank
                          > made by Athearn and a metal under frame by roundhouse. As for the
                          > roundhouse/MDC ballast cars those are nice and I also would like to
                          > find some those. I was going to buy one on Ebay a while ago, but the
                          > price just got too high.
                          >
                          > Larry

                          Keep watching eBay. I had the same problem getting a Thomas 6 dome wine car
                          (still unassembled, but I'm working on it in fits and snatches). They kept
                          going for ridiculous prices until the market got so saturated that finally
                          one came up and nobody bid on it but me.

                          As for the picture, I put a copy of it in the "Temporary" photo albym on the
                          group page this morning for those who didin't see it. It'll be there for a
                          month or so. I'll probably take a few more shots tonigt showing the parts
                          better, and I'll put them there too.

                          Don

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                          Group: vintageHO Message: 305 From: Don Riley Date: 12/15/2004
                          Subject: Re: New pics and a new aquisition
                          Wow! THat is one different looking balast car! I mean it would be hard to explain it and I have never seen one like it! Looks totally different then the plastic MDC ballast hoppers I have!
                           
                          Steamengine 4449

                          Gerry D <gerard_sr@...> wrote:
                          Nice grab Don!
                          I took a side trip to your web pages on Geocities,
                          impressive!
                          I grabbed my third MDC metal balast car. (Attached
                          Picture) painted for Roundhouse Products!
                          I was searching Ebay myself for another few items. The
                          results of which can be seen at:
                          http://www.ourpage.com/tyco
                          I'll be building a wall shelf for the set of 12 over
                          the holidays.
                          By the way, what did you use for your "trees"?
                          Cordially,
                          Gerry


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                          Group: vintageHO Message: 306 From: Don Riley Date: 12/15/2004
                          Subject: Re: where did the box go? was New pics and a new aquisition
                          lol about finding buried models!
                           
                          I have wondered whatever happens to boxes too! I have a bunch of band driven F7s and the boxes are gone! No I never had them I got the engines used. I have actually searched Ebay for boxes but I am only finding modern boxes. Most of the modern fleet has boxes this is because I bought most of the modern cars and engines new. Boxes around here live in several places. They started out going into a large cardboard box I found here. It filled so I looked for something else. I found a big cabinet that someone wanted rid of. So I brought it back and it is filling up now. Well as I thought about where the boxes would go next I found yet another cabinet! It is smaller then the other one but holds lots of boxes and it mostly full. Both cabinets have more room so for now I am not looking for a place for the boxes.
                           
                          Also I keep a few things in boxes. Old metal models and Globe cars and engines all live in the boxes they came in.
                           
                          I have wondered why the model companies never made a collectors box. You know a really big box painted like the boxes the models come in. You would get this huge box and put lots of small ones in it. Sorta like those binders and such that magazines offer to sell you for your subscription to live in.
                           
                          Steamengine 4449

                          Dave Slater <daslater@...> wrote:
                          I think I had some of those "kits" years ago, I just might still have an assembled
                          one down in the "dungeon" if I dig deep enough. That sort of looks like one that's
                          don there..... Maybe... I know if I do have one the box is long gone to wherever old
                          boxes go..
                          Dave S.


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                          Group: vintageHO Message: 307 From: Garry Spear Date: 12/16/2004
                          Subject: FA: Blue Line PRR Pass Cars and Globe Box Car kits
                          Hi All,
                          More thinning of my stuff!

                          Two Blue Line PRR passenger cars:
                          http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5943225106

                          Globe NH Box car kit:
                          http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5943188984

                          Globe DL&W Box Car Kit - All metal parts factory painted:
                          http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5943810553

                          Garry Spear
                          Group: vintageHO Message: 308 From: Don and Dianne Hopf Date: 12/22/2004
                          Subject: New Member
                          Hello.
                           
                          My name is Don Hopf. I live in Yankton,SD, about 120 miles northwest of Omaha, NE. Just join the group yesterday. I like the vintage models as they set the standards for the present. I like to read about vintage equipment like Varney, Model Die Casting, and Mantua. I have recently purchased a Varney Dockside that has a plastic boiler over the diecast weight. It runs very nice. I also have a vintage Tenshodo brass FT diesel A & B unit that uses the classic Varney drive system. The diesel set is very heavy, growls loudly,pulls great, and keeps the track very clean. When I purchased the diesel, the B unit still had a Baker coupler on it!
                           
                          Don Hopf
                           
                           
                          Group: vintageHO Message: 309 From: redehaas@dds.nl Date: 12/22/2004
                          Subject: Re: Varney fan
                          Hi Don,
                          Varney fan! That's great.
                          I'm working on my personal homepage on Varney Items, so if you are interested
                          you're welcome to take a look at it: http://www.redehaas.dds.nl/Varney.htm
                          I'm still working on it, so don't expect to much for now.
                          I know an other Varney Docksider fan on the Vintage HO group, so if you like we
                          can share information about our theme Varney.
                          Rudolf



                          Citeren Don and Dianne Hopf <dhopf1@...>:

                          > Hello.
                          >
                          > My name is Don Hopf. I live in Yankton,SD, about 120 miles northwest of
                          > Omaha, NE. Just join the group yesterday. I like the vintage models as they
                          > set the standards for the present. I like to read about vintage equipment
                          > like Varney, Model Die Casting, and Mantua. I have recently purchased a
                          > Varney Dockside that has a plastic boiler over the diecast weight. It runs
                          > very nice. I also have a vintage Tenshodo brass FT diesel A & B unit that
                          > uses the classic Varney drive system. The diesel set is very heavy, growls
                          > loudly,pulls great, and keeps the track very clean. When I purchased the
                          > diesel, the B unit still had a Baker coupler on it!
                          >
                          > Don Hopf
                          >
                          >
                          Group: vintageHO Message: 310 From: oahurailway Date: 12/23/2004
                          Subject: Varney fans....
                          Hi Don & Dianne!

                          Welcome to the group! Happy to have you aboard. Like Rudolf
                          mentioned, we've kinda been collaborating on the various models of
                          the Varney "Docksider" that were manufactured through the years
                          beginning with the six volt one in 1941. The more we dig, the more we
                          have uncovered. Be sure to check out Rudolf's site.

                          You'd also find the book; "Greenberg's Guide to Varney Trains" by
                          John David Spanagel, 1991 very useful as you acquire more & more
                          Varney pieces. It's now out of print, but every now and then pops up
                          on eBay, as well as a pretty fair collection of Varney rolling stock.

                          Happy Holidays, and a most prosperous '05!

                          Sarita
                          Group: vintageHO Message: 311 From: Gerry D Date: 12/23/2004
                          Subject: Re: Varney fan
                          Good start Rudolf!

                          I wish I had the chance to get some Varney in years
                          gone by, I'll have to concentrate on something more
                          realistic like Roundhouse metal cars
                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mdcroundhouse/ We just
                          colaberated on making a listing of them in that area.

                          I also just completed a piece of a Tyco collection,
                          the operating hopper car series from the 1960's,
                          http://kitbash.ourpage.org (bottom of page). Granted I
                          don't have boxes for them, but I intend to display
                          them on shelves.

                          That's my two cents worth gang... :-)

                          Cordially,
                          Gerry


                          --- redehaas@... wrote:

                          > Hi Don,
                          > Varney fan! That's great.
                          > I'm working on my personal homepage on Varney Items,
                          > so if you are interested
                          > you're welcome to take a look at it:
                          > http://www.redehaas.dds.nl/Varney.htm
                          > I'm still working on it, so don't expect to much for
                          > now.
                          > I know an other Varney Docksider fan on the Vintage
                          > HO group, so if you like we
                          > can share information about our theme Varney.
                          > Rudolf
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Citeren Don and Dianne Hopf <dhopf1@...>:
                          >
                          > > Hello.
                          > >
                          > > My name is Don Hopf. I live in Yankton,SD, about
                          > 120 miles northwest of
                          > > Omaha, NE. Just join the group yesterday. I like
                          > the vintage models as they
                          > > set the standards for the present. I like to read
                          > about vintage equipment
                          > > like Varney, Model Die Casting, and Mantua. I have
                          > recently purchased a
                          > > Varney Dockside that has a plastic boiler over the
                          > diecast weight. It runs
                          > > very nice. I also have a vintage Tenshodo brass FT
                          > diesel A & B unit that
                          > > uses the classic Varney drive system. The diesel
                          > set is very heavy, growls
                          > > loudly,pulls great, and keeps the track very
                          > clean. When I purchased the
                          > > diesel, the B unit still had a Baker coupler on
                          > it!
                          > >
                          > > Don Hopf
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >




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                          Group: vintageHO Message: 312 From: dhopf1 Date: 12/23/2004
                          Subject: Re: Varney fan
                          I've read the information on your website. I learned alot. I like the
                          design of the V2 with seven poled armature, attached gear box, and
                          ball bearings. The belted or geared Brute diesel truck is another
                          very interesting design. The belted 3 step pulley system could be a
                          fun one to play with.

                          I spend a lot of time on Ebay just looking at the old diesel and
                          steam kits.

                          Over the years, I have accumulated a few steam loco frames, boilers
                          and open frame motors. I've modified a old Mantua 0-4-0 tank engine
                          by adding balling bears to the drivers axles and motor. I found some
                          bearings at the local hobby shop in the rc car section that fit the
                          Mantua PM-1 motor shaft and drive alxes. That was a simple swap as
                          the ball bearings were the same size as the motor's brass bearings.
                          I've also replaced the original magnet with a new rare earth magnet.
                          Don't know if the magnet is an improvement. The loco will spin it's
                          wheels at less than half thottle but you have to be careful about the
                          leaving tools lay around as the new magnet attracts anything within 4
                          inches.

                          Don
                          Group: vintageHO Message: 313 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/24/2004
                          Subject: Holiday Greetings
                           
                          I just want to take a moment out of our busy preparations to wish every one the very best of the Holiday season.
                           
                          Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.
                           
                          I hope everyone has a joyous and blessed holiday.
                           
                          Don
                           
                          Group: vintageHO Message: 314 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 12/24/2004
                          Subject: Re: Varney fan
                          Hello Don (dhopf1),
                           You wouldn't happen to have the part #s for those ball bearings?
                          That is something I would be interested in trying.
                            
                           I have a Varney F3 with the Brute drive that had an aftermarket centrifugal clutch.
                           Does anyone have any info on these clutches?
                                                 Ray

                          dhopf1 <dhopf1@...> wrote:

                          I've read the information on your website. I learned alot. I like the
                          design of the V2 with seven poled armature, attached gear box, and
                          ball bearings. The belted or geared Brute diesel truck is another
                          very interesting design. The belted 3 step pulley system could be a
                          fun one to play with.

                          I spend a lot of time on Ebay just looking at the old diesel and
                          steam kits.

                          Over the years, I have accumulated a few steam loco frames, boilers
                          and open frame motors. I've modified a old Mantua 0-4-0 tank engine
                          by adding balling bears to the drivers axles and motor. I found some
                          bearings at the local hobby shop in the rc car section that fit the
                          Mantua PM-1 motor shaft and drive alxes. That was a simple swap as
                          the ball bearings were the same size as the motor's brass bearings.
                          I've also replaced the original magnet with a new rare earth magnet.
                          Don't know if the magnet is an improvement. The loco will spin it's
                          wheels at less than half thottle but you have to be careful about the
                          leaving tools lay around as the new magnet attracts anything within 4
                          inches.

                          Don







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                          Group: vintageHO Message: 315 From: dhopf1 Date: 12/24/2004
                          Subject: Re: Varney fan
                          > You wouldn't happen to have the part #s for those ball bearings?
                          > That is something I would be interested in trying.


                          Any 3/32 inside diameter bearing will work for the axles. I think I
                          used Duratrax LXD083. Only problems is that no electic current should
                          flow thru the axle bearing as it will pit the bearings and only short
                          wheelbase steam locomotives can be used (0-4-0) as the drive wheels
                          on a larger wheelbase locomotives need to have the side play for
                          running thru curves. The bearings I used are not a direct drop-in. I
                          removed some metal from the axle slots in the frame.

                          The bearings for the motor are 3/32 inside diameter. These were
                          steering bearings that came in 4 to a bag. The problems with the
                          motor was that you can't remove the armature from the magnetic field
                          of the the permenant magnet without destroying some of the magnetic
                          power of the magnet. I replaced the old magnet with a new magnet from
                          amazing magnets. These new 1/2x1/2x1/2 cube magnets are very strong.

                          I was also thinking about a new spring system for the motor brushes.
                          It would use an Athearn motor spring mounted in between two T-shaped
                          pieces of non-conductive material. I can't come up with any ideas for
                          a source of the non-conductive material that is about 1/32 - 1/16
                          thick.

                          Don Hopf
                          Group: vintageHO Message: 316 From: dhopf1 Date: 12/24/2004
                          Subject: centrifugal clutch
                          > I have a Varney F3 with the Brute drive that had an aftermarket
                          centrifugal clutch.
                          > Does anyone have any info on these clutches?
                          > Ray

                          Can you upload a picture of the drive? The centrifugal clutches were
                          the rage back in the 50's.

                          Does anyone have or built a dual Brute drive loco?

                          Don Hopf
                          Group: vintageHO Message: 317 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 12/24/2004
                          Subject: Re: Varney fan
                          Hi Ray,  As I recall, I believe that after-market clutch was produced by Jerry Martin (manufacturer name).  I'll go through my early HO pamphlets/catalogs and see if I can find something on it.  I think the inside was filled will petroleum jelly and made for a very smooth and realistic take off of the unit w/train.  I'm sure I've also seen it in MR and RMC (early 50's?).  Season's Greetings,  Ray
                          Group: vintageHO Message: 318 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 12/25/2004
                          Subject: Re: Varney fan
                          Thanks Don
                           I'll take a look at the LHS to see what kind of bearings they have in stock.
                           I made a brush tensioner like you are describing. I used a fiber tie from an old piece of flex track to make the T pieces. 
                                        Ray

                          dhopf1 <dhopf1@...> wrote:


                          >  You wouldn't happen to have the part #s for those ball bearings?
                          > That is something I would be interested in trying.


                          Any 3/32 inside diameter bearing will work for the axles. I think I
                          used Duratrax LXD083. Only problems is that no electic current should
                          flow thru the axle bearing as it will pit the bearings and only short
                          wheelbase steam locomotives can be used (0-4-0) as the drive wheels
                          on a larger wheelbase locomotives need to have the side play for
                          running thru curves. The bearings I used are not a direct drop-in. I
                          removed some metal from the axle slots in the frame.

                          The bearings for the motor are 3/32 inside diameter. These were
                          steering bearings that came in 4 to a bag. The problems with the
                          motor was that you can't remove the armature from the magnetic field
                          of the the permenant magnet without destroying some of the magnetic
                          power of the magnet. I replaced the old magnet with a new magnet from
                          amazing magnets. These new 1/2x1/2x1/2 cube magnets are very strong.

                          I was also thinking about a new spring system for the motor brushes.
                          It would use an Athearn motor spring mounted in between two T-shaped
                          pieces of non-conductive material. I can't come up with any ideas for
                          a source of the non-conductive material that is about 1/32 - 1/16
                          thick.

                          Don Hopf





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                          Group: vintageHO Message: 319 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/26/2004
                          Subject: MDC Plastic
                          Attachments :
                            Put the MDC/Athearn Hybrid together today.

                            The delay was getting over to Walthers for a Pack of Kadee No. 4's.

                            Don

                            don.dellmann@...
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                            Group: vintageHO Message: 320 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 12/26/2004
                            Subject: Re: centrifugal clutch
                            I will have to take a photo of the clutch  and mounting plate.
                             I took the clutch out of the F3 because the original motor was weak and didn't spin fast enough to fully engage the clutch.
                             I recently bought a new old stock DC60 motor and I plan to use it and reinstall the clutch.
                             I am also hoping to find another gearbox and drive shaft to make the unit 8 wheel drive.

                            dhopf1 <dhopf1@...> wrote:

                               
                            >  I have a Varney F3 with the Brute drive that had an aftermarket
                            centrifugal clutch.
                            >  Does anyone have any info on these clutches?
                            >                        Ray

                            Can you upload a picture of the drive? The centrifugal clutches were
                            the rage back in the 50's.

                            Does anyone have or built a dual Brute drive loco?

                            Don Hopf







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                            Group: vintageHO Message: 321 From: Al Date: 12/27/2004
                            Subject: Re: Digest Number 91
                            Don wrote:

                            > I was also thinking about a new spring system for the motor brushes.
                            > It would use an Athearn motor spring mounted in between two T-shaped
                            > pieces of non-conductive material. I can't come up with any ideas for
                            > a source of the non-conductive material that is about 1/32 - 1/16
                            > thick.

                            best bet for that would be a piece of printed circuit board material ( G10
                            fiberglass) .

                            very strong,lightweight and also flexible slightly,if you need it to provide
                            some spring to the brush holder.

                            we use it for fins on model rockets,or hobby shops should have some for r/c
                            car chassis (for the electric carpet cars),but maybe not that thin.

                            if you do;t find anything that works ok, drop me a line and I likely have a
                            scrap piece in the
                            .040 to .062 thick range.

                            ~ AL

                            ( another list lurker, lol )
                            Group: vintageHO Message: 322 From: Roger Aultman Date: 12/27/2004
                            Subject: Re: MDC Plastic [SPAM : scl = 6]
                            Nice job Don Loks like sprung trucks also. Roger Aultman



                            Don Dellmann wrote:
                            > Put the MDC/Athearn Hybrid together today.
                            >
                            > The delay was getting over to Walthers for a Pack of Kadee No. 4's.
                            >
                            > Don
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            >
                            Group: vintageHO Message: 323 From: don.dellmann Date: 12/27/2004
                            Subject: Re: MDC Plastic [SPAM : scl = 6]
                            The trucks are actually CV's out of the scrap box. The kit came with
                            unassembled bettendorfs, which I didn't feel ambitious enough to put
                            together yet.

                            Don

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                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: Roger Aultman <raul@...>
                            To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 2:36 PM
                            Subject: Re: [vintageHO] MDC Plastic [SPAM : scl = 6]


                            > Nice job Don Loks like sprung trucks also. Roger Aultman
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Don Dellmann wrote:
                            > > Put the MDC/Athearn Hybrid together today.
                            > >
                            > > The delay was getting over to Walthers for a Pack of Kadee No. 4's.
                            > >
                            > > Don
                            Group: vintageHO Message: 324 From: Larry Date: 12/28/2004
                            Subject: Re: MDC Plastic
                            Nice Car Don!

                            I have a couple of questions about this car. Does it have the
                            plastic floor that lays on top of the metal frame, the trucks also
                            attach to this. Or does it have the little circular plastic bolster
                            plugs (guess that is what they call them). I need to check through
                            my boxes, I had no idea these box car shells were produced by
                            Athearn. I might have some of these. I need to post a picture of
                            the MDC chemical tank cars that I found. They have the Athearn
                            Plastic tank shell with a metal MDC frame. An Athearn plastic frame
                            fits perfectly on the tank shells.

                            Do you have the box for this car? It would be interesting to know the
                            type of box it came it. The tank cars are in a yellow and red box.
                            Just guessing that was the original colors.

                            Larry




                            --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...>
                            wrote:
                            > Put the MDC/Athearn Hybrid together today.
                            >
                            > The delay was getting over to Walthers for a Pack of Kadee No. 4's.
                            >
                            > Don
                            >
                            > don.dellmann@p...
                            > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                            > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                            > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                            > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                            > co-moderator: SCENERY@Y...
                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                            Group: vintageHO Message: 325 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/28/2004
                            Subject: Re: MDC Plastic
                            --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Larry" <seekingho@y...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Nice Car Don!
                            >
                            > I have a couple of questions about this car. Does it have the
                            > plastic floor that lays on top of the metal frame, the trucks also
                            > attach to this. Or does it have the little circular plastic
                            bolster
                            > plugs (guess that is what they call them). I need to check through
                            > my boxes, I had no idea these box car shells were produced by
                            > Athearn. I might have some of these. I need to post a picture of
                            > the MDC chemical tank cars that I found. They have the Athearn
                            > Plastic tank shell with a metal MDC frame. An Athearn plastic
                            frame
                            > fits perfectly on the tank shells.
                            >
                            > Do you have the box for this car? It would be interesting to know
                            the
                            > type of box it came it. The tank cars are in a yellow and red
                            box.
                            > Just guessing that was the original colors.
                            >
                            > Larry

                            It has the stock Athearn floor, the MDC metal underframe fits into
                            the Athearn piece, and the trucks screw into the bosses on the
                            Athearn floor. It looks like the underframe was specifically tooled
                            to fit the Athearn piece. I would guess the 50' mill gondola uses
                            the same underframe.

                            The box was the "orange & cream" (faded red/yellow?) with the
                            stylized drawing of the Alco PA on the front.

                            Don
                            Group: vintageHO Message: 326 From: cripete Date: 12/30/2004
                            Subject: Re: centrifugal clutch
                            --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "dhopf1" <dhopf1@i...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > > I have a Varney F3 with the Brute drive that had an aftermarket
                            > centrifugal clutch.
                            > > Does anyone have any info on these clutches?
                            > > Ray


                            Ray:
                            There were at least two makers of centrifugal clutches circa
                            1954 , and I believe one was KEMTRON.
                            Today, none are in production here. However, BRIMALM makes
                            two models for different size shafts. You could adapt them
                            to smaller diameter shafting easily, and to larger size ones
                            with the necessary shop tooling. You can GoogleUp BRIMALM,
                            you are interested.
                            Good-Luck, Peter
                            Group: vintageHO Message: 327 From: Ray Hobin Date: 12/30/2004
                            Subject: Re: centrifugal clutch
                            On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 21:20:49 -0000, you wrote:

                            > There were at least two makers of centrifugal clutches circa
                            >1954 , and I believe one was KEMTRON.
                            > Today, none are in production here. However, BRIMALM makes
                            >two models for different size shafts. You could adapt them
                            >to smaller diameter shafting easily, and to larger size ones
                            >with the necessary shop tooling. You can GoogleUp BRIMALM,
                            >you are interested.


                            What about Hobbytown of Boston's centrifugal clutches? Were they
                            produced after 1954?...I have a Hobbytown PA1 which came with a
                            CF, but I uninstalled it. Not sure when I purchased it, but it
                            was not as early as 1954...probably about 1958.


                            Ray Hobin
                            NMRA Life # 1735; TCA # HR-78-12540; ARHS # 2421
                            Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
                            Group: vintageHO Message: 328 From: Kjb80401@aol.com Date: 12/30/2004
                            Subject: Re: centrifugal clutch
                            In a message dated 12/30/04 3:43:22 PM Mountain Standard Time,
                            tcol01@... writes:

                            << What about Hobbytown of Boston's centrifugal clutches? Were they produced
                            after 1954? >>

                            A place you might investigate:

                            Bear Locomotive Co. of Whiting, New Jersey, has acquired hobbytown of Boston
                            as of April 1st, 2001. We will continue production of the HO diecast
                            locomotive kits under the hobbytown of Boston trade name

                            Hobbytown Kits/Parts - Bear Locomotive
                            http://bearlocomo.zoovy.com/
                            They have an Email contact by clicking on "contact us"

                            Phone (732) 350-3630 Weekdays, 10am - 7pm, Saturdays 10 am - 6 pm.(Eastern
                            Time) Fax (732) 350-2557 Anytime
                            Write to: Bear Locomotive Co, P.O.Box 335 Whiting, NJ 08759

                            Keevan
                            Group: vintageHO Message: 329 From: Kjb80401@aol.com Date: 12/30/2004
                            Subject: Re: centrifugal clutch
                            In a message dated 12/30/04 3:43:22 PM Mountain Standard Time,
                            tcol01@... writes:

                            << What about Hobbytown of Boston's centrifugal clutches? Were they produced
                            after 1954? >>

                            Check Bear Loco's "Hobbytown Parts". They list a #2001K Centrifugal Clutch
                            Kit with a complete narrative describing it, Price: $14.95

                            site url: http://bearlocomo.zoovy.com/product/2001K

                            Keevan
                            Group: vintageHO Message: 330 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 12/31/2004
                            Subject: Re: centrifugal clutch
                            Attachments :
                              Here's a couple photos of the clutch.
                               The first shows it on the motor with the motor mounting plate. It bolted to the top of the F3 frame and a belt ran to the pulley on the truck.
                               The second photo shows the seam where the clutch comes apart.
                               The gentleman that sold it to me said you had to heat the outer case to expand it and the part with the pulley could then be pulled out.
                                Inside is a hub  that was soldered to the motor shaft which held two shoes that contacted the outer drum when the motor was revved up.
                                 I'll add these photos to my album.

                              dhopf1 <dhopf1@...> wrote:

                                 
                              >  I have a Varney F3 with the Brute drive that had an aftermarket
                              centrifugal clutch.
                              >  Does anyone have any info on these clutches?
                              >                        Ray

                              Can you upload a picture of the drive? The centrifugal clutches were
                              the rage back in the 50's.

                              Does anyone have or built a dual Brute drive loco?

                              Don Hopf




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                              Group: vintageHO Message: 331 From: Ray Hobin Date: 12/31/2004
                              Subject: Re: centrifugal clutch
                              On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 18:39:52 EST, you wrote:


                              ><< What about Hobbytown of Boston's centrifugal clutches? Were they produced
                              >after 1954? >>
                              >
                              >A place you might investigate:

                              My typo...I meant were Hobbytown's CFs produced as early as
                              1954...I didn't buy a loco with one until 1959 or 1960. This was
                              prompted by Peter's statement:

                              > There were at least two makers of centrifugal clutches circa
                              >1954 , and I believe one was KEMTRON.

                              I was just wondering if Hobbytown was the other producer.

                              >


                              Ray Hobin
                              NMRA Life # 1735; TCA # HR-78-12540; ARHS # 2421
                              Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
                              Group: vintageHO Message: 332 From: dhopf1 Date: 1/2/2005
                              Subject: Re: centrifugal clutch
                              Thanks for the pictures.

                              That was high tech back in its day.

                              Don Hopf
                              Group: vintageHO Message: 333 From: dhopf1 Date: 1/2/2005
                              Subject: Re: Looking for a Motor
                              I have a Bowser motor for sale. Are you have missing the motor or
                              have one that is inoperable?

                              If you are just missing the set screws for the driveshaft, here's a
                              website for the 00-80 set screws.

                              http://www.microfasteners.com/catalog/products/SSCSSA.cfm

                              This site also has small 00-90 thru 2-56 fasterner listed.

                              Contact me offlist about the motor.

                              Thanks

                              Don Hopf



                              > I am looking for an old Bowser motor and flexible drive shaft. A
                              > picture of this is at the link below!
                              >
                              > http://groups.msn.com/HoSeeker/trainlist4.msnw
                              >
                              > Thanks
                              Group: vintageHO Message: 334 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/3/2005
                              Subject: Latest aquisition
                              Attachments :
                                eBay comes through again. This time an "original die" plastic Athearn.

                                The only thing wrong was broken steps, but then half the cars on my layout
                                suffer from that <G>.

                                Don

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                                Group: vintageHO Message: 335 From: Paul Wassermann Date: 1/6/2005
                                Subject: Varney 4-6-0 Casey Jones Pilot
                                I received a beautiful Varney HO set in the original boxes/set box
                                from an Ebay auction. The set is like new, but alas upon opening the
                                loco box it became apparent that the die cast pilot (cow catcher) was
                                broken into scores of small pieces. Since the shipping box was in
                                pristine condition, I believe the loco was broken prior to shipment.
                                I believe the seller will offer a full refund, but I would rather
                                save the set (and the loco) if possible.
                                Would any of you have an available junker Varney 4-6-0 with a nice
                                pilot (it is a separate piece that screws to the chassis) or better
                                yet a replacement pilot?

                                Thanks
                                Paul Wassermann MD
                                Group: vintageHO Message: 336 From: Garry Spear Date: 1/6/2005
                                Subject: Re: Varney 4-6-0 Casey Jones Pilot
                                Try Bowser. The hve the dies and may sell the part.
                                Garry Spear

                                > ________________________________________________________________________
                                > ________________________________________________________________________
                                >
                                > Message: 1
                                > Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 13:56:55 -0000
                                > From: "Paul Wassermann" <tinplater@...>
                                > Subject: Varney 4-6-0 Casey Jones Pilot
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > I received a beautiful Varney HO set in the original boxes/set box
                                > from an Ebay auction. The set is like new, but alas upon opening the
                                > loco box it became apparent that the die cast pilot (cow catcher) was
                                > broken into scores of small pieces. Since the shipping box was in
                                > pristine condition, I believe the loco was broken prior to shipment.
                                > I believe the seller will offer a full refund, but I would rather
                                > save the set (and the loco) if possible.
                                > Would any of you have an available junker Varney 4-6-0 with a nice
                                > pilot (it is a separate piece that screws to the chassis) or better
                                > yet a replacement pilot?
                                >
                                > Thanks
                                > Paul Wassermann MD
                                >
                                Group: vintageHO Message: 337 From: redehaas@dds.nl Date: 1/6/2005
                                Subject: Re: Varney 4-6-0 Casey Jones Pilot
                                Bowser part# 2165


                                > Try Bowser.  The hve the dies and may sell the part.
                                >
                                > Garry Spear



                                > > > Subject: Varney 4-6-0 Casey Jones Pilot
                                >

                                > > I received a beautiful Varney HO set in the original boxes/set box
                                >
                                > > from an Ebay auction.  The set is like new, but alas upon opening the
                                >
                                > > loco box it became apparent that the die cast pilot (cow catcher) was
                                >
                                > > broken into scores of small pieces.  Since the shipping box was in
                                >
                                > > pristine condition, I believe the loco was broken prior to shipment. 
                                >
                                > > I believe the seller will offer a full refund, but I would rather
                                >
                                > > save the set (and the loco) if possible.
                                >
                                > > Would any of you have an available junker Varney 4-6-0 with a nice
                                >
                                > > pilot (it is a separate piece that screws to the chassis) or better
                                >
                                > > yet a replacement pilot?
                                >
                                > >
                                >
                                > > Thanks
                                >
                                > > Paul Wassermann MD
                                Group: vintageHO Message: 338 From: Larry Date: 1/7/2005
                                Subject: Re: Varney 4-6-0 Casey Jones Pilot
                                If you can't find a Varney Pilot. You might try Cary, Cal scale, or
                                Precision Scale brass parts. They might fit and look good.

                                Larry

                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Wassermann" <tinplater@a...>
                                wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > I received a beautiful Varney HO set in the original boxes/set box
                                > from an Ebay auction. The set is like new, but alas upon opening
                                the
                                > loco box it became apparent that the die cast pilot (cow catcher)
                                was
                                > broken into scores of small pieces. Since the shipping box was in
                                > pristine condition, I believe the loco was broken prior to
                                shipment.
                                > I believe the seller will offer a full refund, but I would rather
                                > save the set (and the loco) if possible.
                                > Would any of you have an available junker Varney 4-6-0 with a nice
                                > pilot (it is a separate piece that screws to the chassis) or better
                                > yet a replacement pilot?
                                >
                                > Thanks
                                > Paul Wassermann MD
                                Group: vintageHO Message: 339 From: oljoeoh Date: 1/7/2005
                                Subject: Brand new here....
                                I am an HO fan that goes back to the 50's and therein lies
                                my questions. I hope someone can answer about something
                                I thought I remember. I also have some information for
                                people that are interested in the Athearn "rubber band drives".

                                1. I "think" I recall seeing a Rivarossi (plastic) model
                                of the NYC 999 in the late 50's. The huge drivers -
                                really big at 84" were said to even be oversized on
                                the Rivarossi model. They were indeed big, and to my
                                eyes, looked very good even though they were oversized.
                                The hobby shop I worked in had a person that carried
                                around a scale ruler and was always willing to offer
                                comments (ahem). I showed him the loco and he said
                                the drivers were 94" and big BUT they really looked
                                good on the model. Does anyone else remember this
                                beast - I've been looking on ebay for 5 years and
                                not a single one has appeared so I'm really not sure
                                if I'm mixing it up with some of the fine looking
                                brass examples by Kidder, Ahm etc. Some of those
                                were painted but most were unpainted. The Rivarossi
                                was painted. For what it's worth I have 2 of the
                                brass examples. I'd really like to know if I'm
                                looking for something that doesn't exist.

                                2. For the Athearn fans out there - there is a supply
                                of the bands available, at prices much better than
                                what Athearn asked - anybody interested.

                                3. And speaking of Athearn does anybody remember the
                                "Pittman" motor upgrade for the F-7's. I have one
                                of those and it runs well but, other than running
                                much slower, doesn't seem to add much to the operating
                                characteristics.

                                And finally, any of you folks from the Cleveland area.
                                I worked at both Jaye&Jaye as well as Hobby House beween
                                1956 and 1962.
                                Joe
                                Group: vintageHO Message: 340 From: Roger Aultman Date: 1/7/2005
                                Subject: Re: Brand new here....
                                Might there have been a Aristo Craft/New One diecast version of this
                                locomotive? Roger Aultman



                                oljoeoh wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > I am an HO fan that goes back to the 50's and therein lies
                                > my questions. I hope someone can answer about something
                                > I thought I remember. I also have some information for
                                > people that are interested in the Athearn "rubber band drives".
                                >
                                > 1. I "think" I recall seeing a Rivarossi (plastic) model
                                > of the NYC 999 in the late 50's. The huge drivers -
                                > really big at 84" were said to even be oversized on
                                > the Rivarossi model. They were indeed big, and to my
                                > eyes, looked very good even though they were oversized.
                                > The hobby shop I worked in had a person that carried
                                > around a scale ruler and was always willing to offer
                                > comments (ahem). I showed him the loco and he said
                                > the drivers were 94" and big BUT they really looked
                                > good on the model. Does anyone else remember this
                                > beast - I've been looking on ebay for 5 years and
                                > not a single one has appeared so I'm really not sure
                                > if I'm mixing it up with some of the fine looking
                                > brass examples by Kidder, Ahm etc. Some of those
                                > were painted but most were unpainted. The Rivarossi
                                > was painted. For what it's worth I have 2 of the
                                > brass examples. I'd really like to know if I'm
                                > looking for something that doesn't exist.
                                >
                                > 2. For the Athearn fans out there - there is a supply
                                > of the bands available, at prices much better than
                                > what Athearn asked - anybody interested.
                                >
                                > 3. And speaking of Athearn does anybody remember the
                                > "Pittman" motor upgrade for the F-7's. I have one
                                > of those and it runs well but, other than running
                                > much slower, doesn't seem to add much to the operating
                                > characteristics.
                                >
                                > And finally, any of you folks from the Cleveland area.
                                > I worked at both Jaye&Jaye as well as Hobby House beween
                                > 1956 and 1962.
                                > Joe
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                Group: vintageHO Message: 341 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 1/7/2005
                                Subject: Re: Brand new here....
                                Joe,  Aristocraft produced an all brass kit (w/Pittman 5-pole open frame motor) of the NYC 999.  Are you sure you're not confusing it with that?  Ray
                                Group: vintageHO Message: 342 From: Dst8596587@aol.com Date: 1/7/2005
                                Subject: Re: Brand new here....
                                Joe:
                                 
                                Don't know of any thig plastic that would resemble the 999. The narest engine that comes to mind is that in the late fifties Rivirossi manufactured the 4-6-0 Casey Jones engine.
                                 
                                Don 
                                Group: vintageHO Message: 343 From: Wobbly913 Date: 1/7/2005
                                Subject: Re: Brand new here....
                                Joe
                                 
                                Welcome to the group.  I presume you are speaking of the Hi F rubber bands 90101. If so I would be interested in knowing your source for them. I have somewhat recently started collecting Athearn Hi F drive models, primarily RDC and F7 s. I recently bought some of the bands from Horizon Hobby, but a second source would be worth knowing about. 
                                 
                                TIA
                                 
                                Wobbly913

                                oljoeoh <oljoe@...> wrote:


                                          .

                                2. For the Athearn fans out there - there is a supply
                                   of the bands available, at prices much better than
                                   what Athearn asked - anybody interested.









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                                Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.

                                Group: vintageHO Message: 344 From: don.dellmann Date: 1/7/2005
                                Subject: Re: Brand new here....
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: Roger Aultman <raul@...>
                                To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 4:12 PM
                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Brand new here....


                                > Might there have been a Aristo Craft/New One diecast version of this
                                > locomotive? Roger Aultman

                                Aristo had an NYC 4-4-0 but I don't recall if it was the 999 or not. I
                                thought it had smaller drivers. The only one I'm reasonably sure of was a
                                brass import by Gem which I believe did come factory painted.

                                Don

                                don.dellmann@...
                                http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
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                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                Group: vintageHO Message: 345 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 1/8/2005
                                Subject: Re: Brand new here....
                                The brass Aristocraft kit I was referring to did have 84" drivers, and was marketed as the NYC 999.  Additionally, the blueprint type plans indicated how the model should be lettered (decalled, if such could be found), even with the script "Empire State Express" on the tender.  Not sure if decals were supplied, but those days modelers often carefully hand-painted the lettering if needed; I believe it was produced in the '50's.  Ray
                                Group: vintageHO Message: 346 From: oljoe@landolls.com Date: 1/8/2005
                                Subject: Re: Brand new here....
                                I'm aware of both the Aristo(was a "kit", completely painted
                                and ready to assemble with just 4 screws). To my mind most
                                if not all of the mostly similar brass items were essentially
                                the same loco with the only differences being who actually
                                imported the item. I've seen and examined all of the brass
                                versions and they are almost impossible to tell apart. If
                                the box is still present that is probably a good indicator
                                of who the importer was but even that is suspect as the years
                                go by. Boxes only, for each importer, appear on ebay at
                                jaw dropping prices, Even the "assembly instruction sheet"
                                for the Aristo has appeared. Oddly enough most of the
                                unpainted brass items arrived fully assembled

                                Another importer was LMB(Hobby House) but that offering
                                was not as carefully assembled - it ran as well as the
                                others but it begged to be painted. The others looked
                                very nice as display items without paint.

                                Just in case anyone is interested in "why" the Aristo wasn't
                                completly assembled - seems anything that was completly
                                assembled caused the customs fee to be substantially
                                higher. Most of the 50's brass imports shipped all of
                                their painted RTR items disassembled for just this reason.

                                There were other painted 999's but they appeared infrequently
                                and apparently didn't sell well. I also found that the ones
                                that were painted often used gold for all of the trim and
                                tender id. I also have seen one that had the correct
                                silver)???) trim. I must admit that the gold trim looks better
                                than the silver.

                                The Aristo offering was a 999.


                                don.dellmann wrote:
                                >
                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                > From: Roger Aultman <raul@...>
                                > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                > Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 4:12 PM
                                > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Brand new here....
                                >
                                >
                                > > Might there have been a Aristo Craft/New One diecast version of this
                                > > locomotive? Roger Aultman
                                >
                                > Aristo had an NYC 4-4-0 but I don't recall if it was the 999 or not. I
                                > thought it had smaller drivers. The only one I'm reasonably sure of was a
                                > brass import by Gem which I believe did come factory painted.
                                >
                                > Don
                                >
                                > don.dellmann@...
                                > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                > co-moderator: SCENERY@...
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                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                                >
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                                Group: vintageHO Message: 347 From: oljoe@landolls.com Date: 1/8/2005
                                Subject: Re: Brand new here....
                                The drivers on that puppy are big and, to my eye, look
                                close to what I saw in the 999. If you close 1 eye and
                                imagine one of the drivers gone it really isn't to far
                                from what a 999 looked like. I've toyed with the idea
                                of getting one from ebay but havne't made that leap yet.
                                I have done some bashing. I also like the mouse like
                                running quality of the Rivariossi stuff.
                                Joe

                                Dst8596587@... wrote:

                                > Joe:
                                >
                                > Don't know of any thig plastic that would resemble the 999. The narest
                                > engine that comes to mind is that in the late fifties Rivirossi
                                > manufactured the 4-6-0 Casey Jones engine.
                                >
                                > Don
                                >
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                                Group: vintageHO Message: 348 From: Ray Hobin Date: 1/8/2005
                                Subject: Re: Brand new here....
                                On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 oljoe@...:


                                [big snip]

                                >Just in case anyone is interested in "why" the Aristo wasn't
                                >completly assembled - seems anything that was completly
                                >assembled caused the customs fee to be substantially
                                >higher. Most of the 50's brass imports shipped all of
                                >their painted RTR items disassembled for just this reason.

                                To an extent that is true...the 0 gauge/scale locos came as kits
                                because assembled they were classified as toys and had a 35%
                                import duty. Making them kits, classified them as an art or
                                craft, at, I believe, a 6% import duty.

                                Recall one problem when the 6% got inadvertently changed to 60%
                                by either customs or post office. I refused to accept and
                                appealed the obvious "error". Took about 6 weeks to straighten
                                out.



                                Ray Hobin
                                NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX
                                Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
                                Group: vintageHO Message: 349 From: Rudolf de Haas Date: 1/8/2005
                                Subject: Re: Brand new here....
                                Attachments :
                                  Hi Joe,
                                  I guess this is the one?
                                  I found it in an old 1959 Aristo Craft catalogue.
                                  Regarding your Pittman upgrade, could it be the DC-85?
                                  You can take a look at my website:
                                  Hope it's there.
                                  Rudolf
                                  -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
                                  Van: oljoeoh [mailto:oljoe@...]
                                  Verzonden: vrijdag 7 januari 2005 18:43
                                  Aan: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                  Onderwerp: [vintageHO] Brand new here....



                                  I am an HO fan that goes back to the 50's and therein lies
                                  my questions.  I hope someone can answer about something
                                  I thought I remember.  I also have some information for
                                  people that are interested in the Athearn "rubber band drives".

                                  1.  I "think" I recall seeing a Rivarossi (plastic) model
                                      of the  NYC 999 in the late 50's.  The huge drivers -
                                      really big at 84" were said to even be oversized on
                                      the Rivarossi model.  They were indeed big, and to my
                                      eyes, looked very good even though they were oversized.
                                      The hobby shop I worked in had a person that carried
                                      around a scale ruler and was always willing to offer
                                      comments (ahem).  I showed him the loco and he said
                                      the drivers were 94" and big BUT they really looked
                                      good on the model.  Does anyone else remember this
                                      beast - I've been looking on ebay for 5 years and
                                      not a single one has appeared so I'm really not sure
                                      if I'm mixing it up with some of the fine looking
                                      brass examples by Kidder, Ahm etc.  Some of those
                                      were painted but most were unpainted.  The Rivarossi
                                      was painted.  For what it's worth I have 2 of the
                                      brass examples.  I'd really like to know if I'm
                                      looking for something that doesn't exist.

                                  2. For the Athearn fans out there - there is a supply
                                     of the bands available, at prices much better than
                                     what Athearn asked - anybody interested.

                                  3. And speaking of Athearn does anybody remember the
                                     "Pittman" motor upgrade for the F-7's.  I have one
                                     of those and it runs well but, other than running
                                     much slower, doesn't seem to add much to the operating
                                     characteristics.

                                  And finally, any of you folks from the Cleveland area.
                                  I worked at both Jaye&Jaye as well as Hobby House beween
                                  1956 and 1962.
                                  Joe







                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 350 From: oljoe@landolls.com Date: 1/8/2005
                                  Subject: Re: Brand new here....
                                  From your description it seems that your Aristocraft reference
                                  is to an actual unpainted kit. Never saw that one.

                                  I have a fixation with the 999. Plenty of books, Have the
                                  Kidder version, poorly painted, with box, runs great.
                                  Also have a nice looking Thomas O Gauge branch line that
                                  has a nicely done paint and decal job. I know
                                  for sure that Champ made the correct decals and still does(???).
                                  Have both the HO and O sets. I'd need to look to be sure but
                                  I think they are silver. While hand painting was certainly
                                  done it is definitely not a talent that I can apply BUT I really
                                  am good at applying decals that look great - SOLVASET is wonderful.
                                  And yes it is a 50's item (1959).
                                  Joe

                                  erieberk@... wrote:
                                  > The brass Aristocraft kit I was referring to did have 84" drivers, and
                                  > was marketed as the NYC 999. Additionally, the blueprint type plans
                                  > indicated how the model should be lettered (decalled, if such could be
                                  > found), even with the script "Empire State Express" on the tender. Not
                                  > sure if decals were supplied, but those days modelers often carefully
                                  > hand-painted the lettering if needed; I believe it was produced in the
                                  > '50's. Ray
                                  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                                  >
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                                  >
                                  >
                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 351 From: oljoe@landolls.com Date: 1/8/2005
                                  Subject: Re: Brand new here....
                                  The ones I have came from info about an ebay auction - I
                                  wanted far more than the 10 (as in original Athearn packages).
                                  Contacted seller directly and got a LARGE zip bag for
                                  about $10 (not sure about the price but I didn't faint
                                  when seller responded with the price). I can't even
                                  remember what quantity I requested (looks like about
                                  500 in the bag) but I wanted enough to outlast me and
                                  thats what I got. At one time you could get the nice
                                  rubber bands at just about any office supply store - not now.

                                  Contact:
                                  J.B. Adams Jr.
                                  5264 Rockport St.
                                  Columbus, Oh. 43235-4045
                                  www.extra5264east@...

                                  Transaction was 12/03 so he is probably still there. IF
                                  not email me and I'll sell some of mine. I'll be looking for
                                  my purchase info so I know what to ask you to pay (;->

                                  Regards,
                                  Joe




                                  Wobbly913 wrote:

                                  > Joe
                                  >
                                  > Welcome to the group. I presume you are speaking of the Hi F rubber
                                  > bands 90101. If so I would be interested in knowing your source for
                                  > them. I have somewhat recently started collecting Athearn Hi F drive
                                  > models, primarily RDC and F7 s. I recently bought some of the bands from
                                  > Horizon Hobby, but a second source would be worth knowing about.
                                  >
                                  > TIA
                                  >
                                  > Wobbly913
                                  >
                                  > oljoeoh <oljoe@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > .
                                  >
                                  > 2. For the Athearn fans out there - there is a supply
                                  > of the bands available, at prices much better than
                                  > what Athearn asked - anybody interested.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
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                                  >
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                                  >
                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 352 From: Dave Slater Date: 1/8/2005
                                  Subject: Re: Brand new here....
                                  Attachments :
                                    I have heard of using the rubber bands that Orthodontists use for braces on teeth.. I have no personal experience with this but it may be worth a shot.
                                    Dave S.

                                    oljoe@... wrote:

                                    The ones I have came from info about an ebay auction - I
                                    wanted far more than the 10 (as in original Athearn packages).
                                    Contacted seller directly and got a LARGE zip bag for
                                    about $10 (not sure about the price but I didn't faint
                                    when seller responded with the price).  I can't even
                                    remember what quantity I requested (looks like about
                                    500 in the bag) but I wanted enough to outlast me and
                                    thats what I got.  At one time you could get the nice
                                    rubber bands at just about any office supply store - not now.

                                    Contact:
                                    J.B. Adams Jr.
                                    5264 Rockport St.
                                    Columbus, Oh. 43235-4045
                                    www.extra5264east@...

                                    Transaction was 12/03 so he is probably still there.  IF
                                    not email me and I'll sell some of mine.  I'll be looking for
                                    my purchase info so I know what to ask you to pay  (;->

                                    Regards,
                                    Joe
                                     
                                     
                                     

                                    Wobbly913 wrote:

                                    > Joe
                                    >
                                    > Welcome to the group.  I presume you are speaking of the Hi F rubber
                                    > bands 90101. If so I would be interested in knowing your source for
                                    > them. I have somewhat recently started collecting Athearn Hi F drive
                                    > models, primarily RDC and F7 s. I recently bought some of the bands from
                                    > Horizon Hobby, but a second source would be worth knowing about.
                                    >
                                    > TIA
                                    >
                                    > Wobbly913
                                    >
                                    > oljoeoh <oljoe@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >               .
                                    >
                                    >     2. For the Athearn fans out there - there is a supply
                                    >        of the bands available, at prices much better than
                                    >        what Athearn asked - anybody interested.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                                    >
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                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 353 From: oljoe@landolls.com Date: 1/8/2005
                                    Subject: Re: Brand new here....
                                    I found the emails I exchanged with the guy who has the
                                    rubber bands for hi-f. I paid $15 for 500. For what
                                    its worth I believe the same rubber bands were used
                                    on all hi-f drive items and the part # you reference
                                    it the correct #. I also have an original pack of
                                    the athearn rubber bands and they are an exact match
                                    that the guy in Columbus has. I've used the ones
                                    I bought 12/03 and not a single one has broken so far.
                                    As I recall the originals were also pretty durable.
                                    Joe

                                    Wobbly913 wrote:

                                    > Joe
                                    >
                                    > Welcome to the group. I presume you are speaking of the Hi F rubber
                                    > bands 90101. If so I would be interested in knowing your source for
                                    > them. I have somewhat recently started collecting Athearn Hi F drive
                                    > models, primarily RDC and F7 s. I recently bought some of the bands from
                                    > Horizon Hobby, but a second source would be worth knowing about.
                                    >
                                    > TIA
                                    >
                                    > Wobbly913
                                    >
                                    > oljoeoh <oljoe@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > .
                                    >
                                    > 2. For the Athearn fans out there - there is a supply
                                    > of the bands available, at prices much better than
                                    > what Athearn asked - anybody interested.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    > Do you Yahoo!?
                                    > Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard
                                    > <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/spamguard/*http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail/static/protection.html>.
                                    >
                                    > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                                    >
                                    > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                                    >
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                                    >
                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 354 From: oljoe@landolls.com Date: 1/8/2005
                                    Subject: Re: Brand new here....
                                    I tried that - NO dentist I contacted would sell me those
                                    rubber bands. I got many excuses about why they couldnt/wouldnt
                                    sell them but never heard any that made any sense. I had
                                    hoped that I would find a Dentist that was also a model
                                    railroader but none of that luck occurred. Really doesn't
                                    matter now that I found a supply. Thanks for the idea though.
                                    Joe

                                    Dave Slater wrote:

                                    > I have heard of using the rubber bands that Orthodontists use for braces
                                    > on teeth.. I have no personal experience with this but it may be worth a
                                    > shot.
                                    > Dave S.
                                    >
                                    > oljoe@... wrote:
                                    >
                                    >> The ones I have came from info about an ebay auction - I
                                    >> wanted far more than the 10 (as in original Athearn packages).
                                    >> Contacted seller directly and got a LARGE zip bag for
                                    >> about $10 (not sure about the price but I didn't faint
                                    >> when seller responded with the price). I can't even
                                    >> remember what quantity I requested (looks like about
                                    >> 500 in the bag) but I wanted enough to outlast me and
                                    >> thats what I got. At one time you could get the nice
                                    >> rubber bands at just about any office supply store - not now.
                                    >>
                                    >> Contact:
                                    >> J.B. Adams Jr.
                                    >> 5264 Rockport St.
                                    >> Columbus, Oh. 43235-4045
                                    >> www.extra5264east@...
                                    >>
                                    >> Transaction was 12/03 so he is probably still there. IF
                                    >> not email me and I'll sell some of mine. I'll be looking for
                                    >> my purchase info so I know what to ask you to pay (;->
                                    >>
                                    >> Regards,
                                    >> Joe
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> Wobbly913 wrote:
                                    >>
                                    >> > Joe
                                    >> >
                                    >> > Welcome to the group. I presume you are speaking of the Hi F rubber
                                    >> > bands 90101. If so I would be interested in knowing your source for
                                    >> > them. I have somewhat recently started collecting Athearn Hi F drive
                                    >> > models, primarily RDC and F7 s. I recently bought some of the bands
                                    >> from
                                    >> > Horizon Hobby, but a second source would be worth knowing about.
                                    >> >
                                    >> > TIA
                                    >> >
                                    >> > Wobbly913
                                    >> >
                                    >> > oljoeoh <oljoe@...> wrote:
                                    >> >
                                    >> >
                                    >> >
                                    >> > .
                                    >> >
                                    >> > 2. For the Athearn fans out there - there is a supply
                                    >> > of the bands available, at prices much better than
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                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 355 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 1/8/2005
                                    Subject: Re: Brand new here....
                                    Yes, it was an (early) unpainted brass kit.  I checked my Aristocraft catalogs and it appears they never reproduced the 999 in the ' 60's with their cast metal line, as far as I can find.  Its good to know that Champ produced 999/Empire State Express decals for this model, which I guess must have included "N.Y.C. & H.R.R.R." for the tender as well(?).  The only decal set that I was aware of along these lines was for the 1941 NYC streamlined hudson, which included the script "Empire State Express" for the front of this engine, where it was used on the section of streamline shrouding between the pilot and the boiler (directly above the large red New York Central oval). This set was probably made by Champ also, but I don't recall.  Ray
                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 356 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 1/8/2005
                                    Subject: Re: Varney fan
                                    Ray,  I just now came across more info on the Jerry Martin Centriclutches, as they were called.  I did not find it before in my ho catalog file cabinet as it was filed under "A".  There were two different versions offered -- Catalog No. C-10 (3-piece flywheel spool assembly) was made for Varney F-3's and John English FA's.  Catalog No. C-11 (2-piece flywheel spool assembly) was made for the Varney Diesel Switcher.  They were manufactured by Henry J. Martin who produced the American Railroad Models, Inc. (American Beauty Lines) passenger cars, and are included in the American Beauty catalogs.  Will send you a xerox copy of what I have if you want to send your address -- I don't have a working scanner.  Ray Wetzel
                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 357 From: oljoe@landolls.com Date: 1/9/2005
                                    Subject: Re: Brand new here....
                                    erieberk@... wrote:
                                    > Yes, it was an (early) unpainted brass kit. I checked my Aristocraft
                                    > catalogs and it appears they never reproduced the 999 in the ' 60's with
                                    > their cast metal line, as far as I can find.
                                    For what it's worth - I have never seen any diecast 999.
                                    The "kit" was really nice - and came in a very nice red velvet lined
                                    box.
                                    Its good to know that
                                    > Champ produced 999/Empire State Express decals for this model, which I
                                    > guess must have included "N.Y.C. & H.R.R.R." for the tender as well(?).
                                    Yes, the decal set included the tender set. I recently purchased
                                    both the HO and O gauge example, also including the tender decals.
                                    You still might be able to get them from Champ. If you need the
                                    set numbers - let me know and I'll find mine. I'm assuming that
                                    you already know that Champ is headed down to the end of doing
                                    business but it will probably take some time.

                                    > The only decal set that I was aware of along these lines was for the
                                    > 1941 NYC streamlined hudson, which included the script "Empire State
                                    > Express" for the front of this engine, where it was used on the section
                                    > of streamline shrouding between the pilot and the boiler (directly above
                                    > the large red New York Central oval). This set was probably made by
                                    > Champ also, but I don't recall.
                                    Yep they made that one too. They may still have it.... I have
                                    their "last" catalog and can take a look if you want

                                    Interesting, while I'm a fanatic about the 999, the 1941 Hudson
                                    just doesn't stir my blood. I know several people who have an
                                    interest in the "express" but all of them seem totally divided
                                    about which one they are interested in. From what I've seen
                                    there is much more printed material for the 1893 edition. I
                                    even have one of the printed timetables fot the 1893. The only
                                    item I have for the 1941 is the first day cover of Dec. 7, 1941 -
                                    the same day Pearl Harbor was attacked. I think that is one
                                    of the reasons why there is far less available on the 1941 "express".

                                    Joe

                                    Ray
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                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 358 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 1/9/2005
                                    Subject: Re: Brand new here....
                                    Joe,  Yes, I of course heard about Champ.  Its a rottin' shame that they're going out.  I just went to their site.  It appears they no longer have the NYC Empire State Express (1941) decals, but they do have them for the NYC&HRRR Empire State Express (catalog # EH-999 - for HO).  If you hear of a source of decals for the 1941 engine, I'd appreciate a holler; thanks.  Ray
                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 359 From: Jack Priller Date: 1/27/2005
                                    Subject: Verify ID
                                    Going thru my "junque" box [aka ye olde treasure trove :>)) ], I
                                    found a cast Docksider body. Near the front of the boiler, in the
                                    area where the 'steps' are, I found the letter V cast into said
                                    body. That does mean Varney, correct?

                                    Jack Priller
                                    aka
                                    Ye Olde Trolleynut
                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 360 From: redehaas@dds.nl Date: 1/27/2005
                                    Subject: Re: Verify ID
                                    That's right!
                                    Cast Docksiders (marked V on the side) were made by Varney during the 40's +
                                    50's. Do you know if it has the 6V Pittman motor inside?
                                    If yes, it's a 1941/42 Docksider.
                                    If 12V Pittman, it's a 1946/56 one (depends on the frame + main rods what type
                                    you have). Kind regards from a rainy Holland,
                                    Rudolf



                                    Citeren Jack Priller <westpac67@...>:

                                    >
                                    > Going thru my "junque" box [aka ye olde treasure trove :>)) ], I
                                    >
                                    > found a cast Docksider body. Near the front of the boiler, in the
                                    >
                                    > area where the 'steps' are, I found the letter V cast into said
                                    >
                                    > body. That does mean Varney, correct?
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Jack Priller
                                    >
                                    > aka
                                    >
                                    > Ye Olde Trolleynut
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                                    >  
                                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                    > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                    >  
                                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 361 From: Jack Priller Date: 1/28/2005
                                    Subject: Re: Verify ID
                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, redehaas@d... wrote:
                                    > That's right!
                                    > Cast Docksiders (marked V on the side) were made by Varney during
                                    the 40's +
                                    > 50's. Do you know if it has the 6V Pittman motor inside?
                                    > If yes, it's a 1941/42 Docksider.
                                    > If 12V Pittman, it's a 1946/56 one (depends on the frame + main
                                    rods what type
                                    > you have). Kind regards from a rainy Holland,
                                    > Rudolf
                                    >
                                    In the box of die-cast steamer stuff that I found at a train club
                                    sale:

                                    The Varney Docksider body, frame, and running gear mentioned in
                                    prior post

                                    An un-marked engine [body, frame, and one wheel set] but no saddle
                                    tank, so would require a tender

                                    A somewhat longer body stamped Mantua just behind where the
                                    cylenders/saddle would go and and 2308 cast into the inside top of
                                    the boiler

                                    Cast slope-back tender [body only] marked Mantua and 100 on the
                                    inside

                                    A five pole motor with no markings that I can find that is too 'fat'
                                    to fit anything but the Docksider. Will have to dig out a power
                                    supply to see if it runs. At least the commutator is shiny and the
                                    brushes look good.

                                    Jack "Ye Olde Trolleynut" Priller
                                    Still loose in El Paso, TX
                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 362 From: Jack Priller Date: 1/28/2005
                                    Subject: Re: Verify ID, addendum
                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Priller" <westpac67@s...>
                                    wrote:

                                    > In the box of die-cast steamer stuff that I found at a train club
                                    > sale:
                                    >
                                    > The Varney Docksider body, frame, and running gear mentioned in
                                    > prior post
                                    >
                                    > An un-marked engine [body, frame, and one wheel set] but no saddle
                                    > tank, so would require a tender
                                    >
                                    > A somewhat longer body stamped Mantua just behind where the
                                    > cylenders/saddle would go and and 2308 cast into the inside top of
                                    > the boiler
                                    >
                                    > Cast slope-back tender [body only] marked Mantua and 100 on the
                                    > inside
                                    >
                                    > A five pole motor with no markings that I can find that is
                                    too 'fat'
                                    > to fit anything but the Docksider. Will have to dig out a power
                                    > supply to see if it runs. At least the commutator is shiny and the
                                    > brushes look good.

                                    OK! Motor is 12 volt and runs great. Also found the frame for the
                                    Mantua 0-4-0 and a set of drivers/rods that seem to fit it. Any
                                    educated guesses as to the age of that thing?

                                    Jack "Ye Olde Trolleynut" Priller
                                    Still loose in El Paso, TX
                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 363 From: raymarinaccio Date: 1/28/2005
                                    Subject: Re: Verify ID, addendum
                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Priller" <westpac67@s...>
                                    wrote:
                                    >
                                    > OK! Motor is 12 volt and runs great. Also found the frame for the
                                    > Mantua 0-4-0 and a set of drivers/rods that seem to fit it. Any
                                    > educated guesses as to the age of that thing?

                                    Mantua started producing the shifter in the early 50s.
                                    Here is a link to a bit of Mantua history.
                                    http://www.railstop.com/History/Mantua/MantuaHistory.asp


                                    Ray
                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 364 From: Jack Priller Date: 1/29/2005
                                    Subject: More IDs Please
                                    Just up-loaded pix of 3 passenger cars to "Jack's Junque" photo
                                    album; a pair of v-e-r-y heavy RPO/Railway Express cars and a one-
                                    piece cast aluminum coach. What you see is what I got, but what is
                                    it that I got?

                                    Jack Priller
                                    aka
                                    Ye Olde Trolleynut
                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 365 From: erieberk Date: 1/30/2005
                                    Subject: Re: More IDs Please
                                    Jack, The pair of heavyweight (v-e-r-y heavy) RPO/Railway Express
                                    cars appear to be John A. English and the cast aluminum coach appears
                                    to be Alexander (produced around 1950). Ray
                                    \
                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Priller" <westpac67@s...>
                                    wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Just up-loaded pix of 3 passenger cars to "Jack's Junque" photo
                                    > album; a pair of v-e-r-y heavy RPO/Railway Express cars and a one-
                                    > piece cast aluminum coach. What you see is what I got, but what is
                                    > it that I got?
                                    >
                                    > Jack Priller
                                    > aka
                                    > Ye Olde Trolleynut
                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 366 From: Jack Priller Date: 1/30/2005
                                    Subject: Re: More IDs Please
                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "erieberk" <erieberk@w...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Jack, The pair of heavyweight (v-e-r-y heavy) RPO/Railway Express
                                    > cars appear to be John A. English and the cast aluminum coach
                                    appears
                                    > to be Alexander (produced around 1950). Ray

                                    You know, that's what I "hate" about this group; all these people
                                    that know so much more than I do! :>)) And a closer [like under a
                                    good magnifying light] shows that the coach was two parts welded
                                    together and then the seam ground to almost invisibility except
                                    right next to the truck mounting holes.

                                    Okie dokie. Digging thru various drawers of parts, I found an old
                                    set of talgo-type passenger trucks. I put those under the Alexander
                                    coach [after I paint it for some non-existant railroad museum and
                                    add 'glass' to the windows] and put it behind the Varney Docksider,
                                    after I do a little wiring repair and motor/gear adjusting.

                                    "Happy days are here again..."

                                    Now where did I put that spray can of Armour Yellow? The Onion
                                    Pacific Railroad Museum is about to be born.

                                    Jack Priller
                                    aka
                                    Ye Olde Trolleynut
                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 367 From: jerrybrown_20 Date: 1/30/2005
                                    Subject: New Member
                                    Hi all! I just wanted to introduce myself to the group. Although I
                                    have only been modeling since the early 80's, I love many of the old
                                    kits.I am especially interested in the Megow cement car. They were
                                    produced with the following road name decals: Delaware & Hodson,
                                    Erie, Pennsylvania, Seaboard Air Line Norfolk & Western and Missouri-
                                    Kansas-Texas Lines. If anyone has these for sale, I will pay top
                                    dollar. Thanks.
                                    Jerry
                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 368 From: Bill D. Date: 1/31/2005
                                    Subject: 1950s Varney Docksider
                                    Recent posts/questions about the venerable Docksider led me to dig
                                    out my "old friend". It needs a new motor. Now the question....
                                    does a motor upgrade similar to what Earl Smallshaw did years ago,
                                    and a dcc decoder add to or dimish the collectability/value of this
                                    little gem?

                                    Awaiting your considered replies,

                                    billD
                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 369 From: Gerry D Date: 1/31/2005
                                    Subject: Re: New Member
                                    Hi Jerry,

                                    Wow! that's a brand from the past!

                                    http://www.ioffer.com/viewItem.do?itemID=1558638

                                    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=11646&item=5948973107&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
                                    was on ebay but did not sell.

                                    http://www.maurerail.com listed some in the past.

                                    Jay's trains has cars in stock now!!!

                                    http://www.jaystrains.com/HO-HOn3/Rolling%20Stock/HO%20Rolling%20Stock/hors3.htm

                                    Q28 CCC & St L 2-Bay Hopper (ea) $13.00
                                    Q29 Virginian 2-Bay Hopper (ea) $12.50
                                    Q32 PRR 2-Bay Hopper (ea) $13.00
                                    Fruit Growers Exp 40' Reefer (ea) $14.25
                                    NRC/Northwestern 40' Reefer $14.25
                                    UnionTransit(URTX) 40' Reefer $14.25
                                    Western Fruit Exp 40' Reefer (GN) $14.25

                                    All ya gotta do is fake a roof?

                                    Put a search on ebay to tell you of new items, that
                                    will help.
                                    Hope this gives you a good start!

                                    Cordially,
                                    Gerry

                                    --- jerrybrown_20 <jerrybrown_20@...> wrote:

                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Hi all! I just wanted to introduce myself to the
                                    > group. Although I
                                    > have only been modeling since the early 80's, I love
                                    > many of the old
                                    > kits.I am especially interested in the Megow cement
                                    > car. They were
                                    > produced with the following road name decals:
                                    > Delaware & Hodson,
                                    > Erie, Pennsylvania, Seaboard Air Line Norfolk &
                                    > Western and Missouri-
                                    > Kansas-Texas Lines. If anyone has these for sale, I
                                    > will pay top
                                    > dollar. Thanks.
                                    > Jerry





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                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 370 From: erieberk Date: 1/31/2005
                                    Subject: Re: 1950s Varney Docksider
                                    Usually, anything that takes away from the item's original makeup
                                    decreases its collectable value. On the otherhand, from the
                                    standpoint of the present day operation of the engine, such an
                                    upgrade would increase the value. So, IF you were going to sell it,
                                    it would depend on who you sold it to (and what their purpose was in
                                    buying it) as to what its value was. If you're going to keep it, it
                                    would depend on what you value most, collectability or operation.
                                    Ray
                                    \
                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Bill D." <retiredgrouch@y...>
                                    wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Recent posts/questions about the venerable Docksider led me to dig
                                    > out my "old friend". It needs a new motor. Now the question....
                                    > does a motor upgrade similar to what Earl Smallshaw did years ago,
                                    > and a dcc decoder add to or dimish the collectability/value of this
                                    > little gem?
                                    >
                                    > Awaiting your considered replies,
                                    >
                                    > billD
                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 371 From: redehaas@dds.nl Date: 1/31/2005
                                    Subject: Re: 1950s Varney Docksider
                                    Hi Bill,

                                    The Varney Docksider is not that collectable. You see them a lot on the Ebay
                                    for reasonable prices. You find a good post-war die-cast one for about $50.
                                    Plastic versions are cheaper and less collectable, but you can collect
                                    different roadnames though. So if you're planning to remotor it with dcc you
                                    can do it in my opinion.
                                    However, if you have the pre-war 6V one, I don't recommend changing it.
                                    The die-cast 6V Docsiders were only made during the early years of the 2nd WW,
                                    so it's collectable to me...

                                    Regards, Rudolf




                                    Citeren "Bill D." <retiredgrouch@...>:

                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Recent posts/questions about the venerable Docksider led me to dig
                                    >
                                    > out my "old friend".  It needs a new motor.  Now the question....
                                    >
                                    > does a motor upgrade similar to what Earl Smallshaw did years ago,
                                    >
                                    > and a dcc decoder add to or dimish the collectability/value of this
                                    >
                                    > little gem?
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Awaiting your considered replies,
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > billD
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                                    >  
                                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                    > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                    >  
                                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 372 From: erieberk Date: 2/1/2005
                                    Subject: Re: 1950s Varney Docksider
                                    Hi Bill, All Varney items are collectable, some more than others,
                                    depending on their rarity and desirability. The price of a pre-War
                                    cast metal Dockside kit (first produced in January of 1942) was $15,
                                    for a post-War cast metal kit - $15 and for the plastic body kit
                                    first produced in 1956, still $15. The pre-War kits were a little
                                    more than half the price of Varney's other steam engines at the time
                                    and the post-War kits were about 40% of Varney's next least expensive
                                    (economy Pacific) steam engine. The affordability coupled with its
                                    versatility (it can run on a 6" radius, promoting small layouts) made
                                    this engine very popular, so it sold very well. The Greenberg/Varney
                                    guide (1991) gives a value of $30 to $35 for a post-War Dockside in
                                    excellent condition. Rudolph mentions their value today is about
                                    $50. Varney converted to the War-effort production later in 1942, so
                                    there weren't that many pre-War Dockside kits sold in the short time
                                    they were out. As a result. the Varney guide lists their value at
                                    $90 in the same condition. With that same mark-up, that would place
                                    the pre-War models at around $150 today. The Central Valley valve
                                    gear (a Varney catalog item) would add to the value.
                                    \
                                    Incidentally, Rudolph has created a Varney homepage which you might
                                    be interested in; the URL can be found in message #309, 12/23/04
                                    (Rudolph; will you be adding to your Varney page soon?). As I
                                    recall, other messages pertaining to the pre-War Dockside can be
                                    found starting around message #188. Ray
                                    \
                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Bill D." <retiredgrouch@y...>
                                    wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Recent posts/questions about the venerable Docksider led me to dig
                                    > out my "old friend". It needs a new motor. Now the question....
                                    > does a motor upgrade similar to what Earl Smallshaw did years ago,
                                    > and a dcc decoder add to or dimish the collectability/value of this
                                    > little gem?
                                    >
                                    > Awaiting your considered replies,
                                    >
                                    > billD
                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 373 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/1/2005
                                    Subject: Re: 1950s Varney Docksider
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: erieberk <erieberk@...>
                                    To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 7:35 AM
                                    Subject: [vintageHO] Re: 1950s Varney Docksider


                                    >
                                    > Hi Bill, All Varney items are collectable, some more than others,
                                    > depending on their rarity and desirability. The price of a pre-War
                                    > cast metal Dockside kit (first produced in January of 1942) was $15,
                                    > for a post-War cast metal kit - $15 and for the plastic body kit
                                    > first produced in 1956, still $15. The pre-War kits were a little
                                    > more than half the price of Varney's other steam engines at the time
                                    > and the post-War kits were about 40% of Varney's next least expensive
                                    > (economy Pacific) steam engine. The affordability coupled with its
                                    > versatility (it can run on a 6" radius, promoting small layouts) made
                                    > this engine very popular, so it sold very well. The Greenberg/Varney
                                    > guide (1991) gives a value of $30 to $35 for a post-War Dockside in
                                    > excellent condition. Rudolph mentions their value today is about
                                    > $50. Varney converted to the War-effort production later in 1942, so
                                    > there weren't that many pre-War Dockside kits sold in the short time
                                    > they were out. As a result. the Varney guide lists their value at
                                    > $90 in the same condition. With that same mark-up, that would place
                                    > the pre-War models at around $150 today. The Central Valley valve
                                    > gear (a Varney catalog item) would add to the value.
                                    > \
                                    > Incidentally, Rudolph has created a Varney homepage which you might
                                    > be interested in; the URL can be found in message #309, 12/23/04
                                    > (Rudolph; will you be adding to your Varney page soon?). As I
                                    > recall, other messages pertaining to the pre-War Dockside can be
                                    > found starting around message #188. Ray
                                    > \
                                    > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Bill D." <retiredgrouch@y...>
                                    > wrote:

                                    For a post-war version that sold new for $15, and today is worth $50, when
                                    you factor in 50 years of inflation, it's probably worth less today than
                                    when it was new. This kind of proves my point that you'll never get rich
                                    collecting HO, so why not run it?

                                    That said, I would probably do the motor conversion.

                                    Don

                                    don.dellmann@...
                                    http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                    moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                    moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                    moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                    co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 374 From: Tom Date: 2/1/2005
                                    Subject: Hello from a new guy
                                    Hi everyone, thanks for having me on your group. I joined this
                                    group as I am fortunate enough to have been gifted my Dad's
                                    collection of HO locomotives and rolling stock from manufacturers
                                    like Varney and Roundhouse dating to the late 40's early 50's. I
                                    currently operate a few of the diecast metal Roundhouse cars on my
                                    layout although a great number of them need to be assembled/painted
                                    and the couplers changed. I also have a couple of Varney undecorated
                                    F units although these too need to be assembled as they are in
                                    pieces at this time. Hopefully if I need some help with these
                                    someone here will have the information I need.
                                    As a side note to the gentleman who worked at the Hobby House in
                                    Cleveland Ohio, I was one of those young kids who always were
                                    putting fingerprints on the display cases... :)
                                    Tom Businger, Cleveland Ohio
                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 375 From: oljoe@landolls.com Date: 2/1/2005
                                    Subject: Re: Hello from a new guy
                                    Hi Tom;
                                    that was me - what took you so long to get "here"?
                                    Don't know about the "gentleman" thing tho.
                                    Joe

                                    Tom wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Hi everyone, thanks for having me on your group. I joined this
                                    > group as I am fortunate enough to have been gifted my Dad's
                                    > collection of HO locomotives and rolling stock from manufacturers
                                    > like Varney and Roundhouse dating to the late 40's early 50's. I
                                    > currently operate a few of the diecast metal Roundhouse cars on my
                                    > layout although a great number of them need to be assembled/painted
                                    > and the couplers changed. I also have a couple of Varney undecorated
                                    > F units although these too need to be assembled as they are in
                                    > pieces at this time. Hopefully if I need some help with these
                                    > someone here will have the information I need.
                                    > As a side note to the gentleman who worked at the Hobby House in
                                    > Cleveland Ohio, I was one of those young kids who always were
                                    > putting fingerprints on the display cases... :)
                                    > Tom Businger, Cleveland Ohio
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                                    >
                                    > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                    > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                    > <mailto:vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                                    >
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                                    > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 376 From: Bill D. Date: 2/2/2005
                                    Subject: 1950 Docksider aka Little Joe
                                    My sincere thanks to Ray, Rudolph, and Don for their insights.

                                    I will follow Don's thought and re-motor and run the little jewel,
                                    since I won't be altering a relatively rare piece. Besides, I think
                                    it will be an eye catcher at our club open house days pushing hoppers
                                    up to the rotary dump.

                                    BillD
                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 377 From: Rudolf de Haas Date: 2/3/2005
                                    Subject: Re: 1950 Docksider aka Little Joe
                                    Hi Bill,

                                    I updated the Docksider section of my webpage.
                                    So feel free to take a look at it!
                                    http://www.redehaas.dds.nl/Docksider.htm
                                    Kind regards,
                                    Rudolf



                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Bill D." <retiredgrouch@y...>
                                    wrote:
                                    >
                                    > My sincere thanks to Ray, Rudolph, and Don for their insights.
                                    >
                                    > I will follow Don's thought and re-motor and run the little jewel,
                                    > since I won't be altering a relatively rare piece. Besides, I think
                                    > it will be an eye catcher at our club open house days pushing
                                    hoppers
                                    > up to the rotary dump.
                                    >
                                    > BillD
                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 378 From: Rudolf de Haas Date: 2/4/2005
                                    Subject: Streamlined Varney pacific/hudson
                                    Hi, one question from a Dutch member of the group. I'm trying to
                                    profile myself as an inspired Varney collector. I'm specially
                                    interested in the Varney Streamlined pacific/Hudson first introduced
                                    in 1940. In my research I couldn't find a prototype which it was
                                    modeled after. Could it be the NYC J-3a, the Dreyfus Hudson? The nose
                                    just does look like it, but the shell and the skirts it doesn't
                                    match. Does anybody have more information about it? I just threw the
                                    question in the group looking for some answers. Regards, Rudolf.
                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 379 From: erieberk Date: 2/6/2005
                                    Subject: Re: Streamlined Varney pacific/hudson
                                    Rudolph, No this engine was not modeled after the NYC streamlined
                                    J3a (20th Century Ltd.) engines. Keep in mind, when Varney first
                                    brought this engine out in December of 1939, it was produced as a
                                    streamlined Pacific, with the suggestion that the modeler could use a
                                    four wheel trailing truck (from the Yellowstone) to make a
                                    streamlined Hudson. The model was based on a composite of six
                                    prototype streamlined Pacifics, seemingly closest to Lehigh Valley's
                                    streamlined John Wilkes Pacific. It wasn't produced as a streamlined
                                    Hudson kit until 1948. Don't let that stop you from making a J3a
                                    style Hudson out of it. You'd have to either re-work the existing
                                    skirts or make new ones. Ray
                                    \
                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Rudolf de Haas" <redehaas@d...>
                                    wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Hi, one question from a Dutch member of the group. I'm trying to
                                    > profile myself as an inspired Varney collector. I'm specially
                                    > interested in the Varney Streamlined pacific/Hudson first
                                    introduced
                                    > in 1940. In my research I couldn't find a prototype which it was
                                    > modeled after. Could it be the NYC J-3a, the Dreyfus Hudson? The
                                    nose
                                    > just does look like it, but the shell and the skirts it doesn't
                                    > match. Does anybody have more information about it? I just threw
                                    the
                                    > question in the group looking for some answers. Regards, Rudolf.
                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 380 From: redehaas@dds.nl Date: 2/6/2005
                                    Subject: Re: Streamlined Varney pacific/hudson
                                    Hi Ray, this sounds interesting. Do you know by occasion the 6 modelled
                                    streamliners? I allready looked up the LV John Wilkes Pacific. When you can
                                    suggest the five others, it could be nice!
                                    Kind regards from freezing Holland, Rudolf





                                    > Rudolph,  No this engine was not modeled after the NYC streamlined
                                    >
                                    > J3a (20th Century Ltd.) engines.  Keep in mind, when Varney first
                                    >
                                    > brought this engine out in December of 1939, it was produced as a
                                    >
                                    > streamlined Pacific, with the suggestion that the modeler could use a
                                    >
                                    > four wheel trailing truck (from the Yellowstone) to make a
                                    >
                                    > streamlined Hudson.  The model was based on a composite of six
                                    >
                                    > prototype streamlined Pacifics, seemingly closest to Lehigh Valley's
                                    >
                                    > streamlined John Wilkes Pacific.  It wasn't produced as a streamlined
                                    >
                                    > Hudson kit until 1948.  Don't let that stop you from making a J3a
                                    >
                                    > style Hudson out of it.  You'd have to either re-work the existing
                                    >
                                    > skirts or make new ones.  Ray                                       
                                    >
                                    > \                                                                    
                                    >
                                    > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Rudolf de Haas" <redehaas@d...>
                                    >
                                    > wrote:
                                    >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    > > Hi, one question from a Dutch member of the group. I'm trying to
                                    >
                                    > > profile myself as an inspired Varney collector. I'm specially
                                    >
                                    > > interested in the Varney Streamlined pacific/Hudson first
                                    >
                                    > introduced
                                    >
                                    > > in 1940. In my research I couldn't find a prototype which it was
                                    >
                                    > > modeled after. Could it be the NYC J-3a, the Dreyfus Hudson? The
                                    >
                                    > nose
                                    >
                                    > > just does look like it, but the shell and the skirts it doesn't
                                    >
                                    > > match. Does anybody have more information about it? I just threw
                                    >
                                    > the
                                    >
                                    > > question in the group looking for some answers. Regards, Rudolf.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                                    >  
                                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                    > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                    >  
                                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 381 From: Jack Priller Date: 2/8/2005
                                    Subject: Serendipity or something
                                    Recently there have been a few posts about Varney, and this past
                                    weekend I found a Varney die-cast A unit in a back corner of my
                                    closet that I had COMPLETELY forgotton I even had. Unit has partial
                                    paint job, but no lettering, so I am assuming it was an undec kit
                                    that previous owner[s] never finished? Crossbar [best word I can
                                    think of] from side to side of body and centered between the trucks
                                    has "1947" cast into it. Is that the year the engine was made or the
                                    date the mold was made or what? And please don't ask what the
                                    prototype was; I don't have clue 1, except that it has
                                    three 'portholes' on each side, and holes for lighted number boards.
                                    [A diesel spotter I ain't!]

                                    Jack Priller
                                    aka
                                    Ye Olde Trolleynut
                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 382 From: redehaas@dds.nl Date: 2/9/2005
                                    Subject: Re: Serendipity or something
                                    Hi Jack,

                                    Your Varney diesel is a F3 A-unit.
                                    The date you are referring is not the date but just a number of the casting.
                                    So it has nothing to do with the date 1947. Die cast Varney F3's were made from
                                    1948 till 1955/56, so it's about 50 years old! After 1955, Varney made plastic
                                    F3´s.
                                    The value on Ebay is about $30 for a single A unit. If you got a unpowered B
                                    unit with it, it´s worth about $50 for both. Note! all depends on the motor
                                    inside it! Mostly it´s a common spring drive with a single set of wheels
                                    driven. If it´s got the both trucks connected by a tube, it´s probably the
                                    Varney so called `Brute`, driven by a Pittman DC 71 motor,worth about 65 for an
                                    A and B unit. The most rarest of all is the Varney V4, worth about $80 . If
                                    both units are powered, it raises the price!

                                    Regards, Rudolf



                                    Citeren Jack Priller <westpac67@...>:

                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Recently there have been a few posts about Varney, and this past
                                    >
                                    > weekend I found a Varney die-cast A unit in a back corner of my
                                    >
                                    > closet that I had COMPLETELY forgotton I even had. Unit has partial
                                    >
                                    > paint job, but no lettering, so I am assuming it was an undec kit
                                    >
                                    > that previous owner[s] never finished? Crossbar [best word I can
                                    >
                                    > think of] from side to side of body and centered between the trucks
                                    >
                                    > has "1947" cast into it. Is that the year the engine was made or the
                                    >
                                    > date the mold was made or what? And please don't ask what the
                                    >
                                    > prototype was; I don't have clue 1, except that it has
                                    >
                                    > three 'portholes' on each side, and holes for lighted number boards.
                                    >
                                    > [A diesel spotter I ain't!]
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Jack Priller
                                    >
                                    > aka
                                    >
                                    > Ye Olde Trolleynut
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ADVERTISEMENT
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > document.write('');
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
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                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                                    >  
                                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                    > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                    >  
                                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                    >
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                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 383 From: erieberk Date: 2/9/2005
                                    Subject: Re: Streamlined Varney pacific/hudson
                                    Rudolph, Sorry, I do not know all of the other five
                                    roads/streamlined engines Varney used in their combination free-lance
                                    streamlined Pacific. Any guess would be just that, a guess, although
                                    a number of roads used streamlining/shrouding similar to this. I've
                                    discussed this with Varney's Northeast U.S. representative, Hal
                                    Fletcher, but that was about 20 years ago and don't remember all the
                                    details. While talking with Dick Mercer (Varney's Southeast U.S,
                                    rep.) just prior to this, he mentioned that he thought one of the
                                    other streamlined Pacifics Gordon used for this styling was the
                                    Southern Railroad's streamlined Ps-4's used on the Tennessean.
                                    Except for differences in the skirting, it does look very similar.
                                    Needless to say, I was curious about this also, and getting to know
                                    these guys was great. I was fortunate to have been able to sit down
                                    with Hal over a Scotch (his favorite drink) at his place in Queens,
                                    NY and discuss Varney at length. Hal was in his '70's then (and
                                    retired) and decided to sell me his collection of Varney
                                    salesman/demonstrator models, all factory built, of all their
                                    engines. Hope the info on the streamlined Pacifics helps. Ray
                                    \
                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, redehaas@d... wrote:
                                    > Hi Ray, this sounds interesting. Do you know by occasion the 6
                                    modelled
                                    > streamliners? I allready looked up the LV John Wilkes Pacific. When
                                    you can
                                    > suggest the five others, it could be nice!
                                    > Kind regards from freezing Holland, Rudolf
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > > Rudolph,  No this engine was not modeled after the NYC streamlined
                                    > >
                                    > > J3a (20th Century Ltd.) engines.  Keep in mind, when Varney first
                                    > >
                                    > > brought this engine out in December of 1939, it was produced as a
                                    > >
                                    > > streamlined Pacific, with the suggestion that the modeler could
                                    use a
                                    > >
                                    > > four wheel trailing truck (from the Yellowstone) to make a
                                    > >
                                    > > streamlined Hudson.  The model was based on a composite of six
                                    > >
                                    > > prototype streamlined Pacifics, seemingly closest to Lehigh
                                    Valley's
                                    > >
                                    > > streamlined John Wilkes Pacific.  It wasn't produced as a
                                    streamlined
                                    > >
                                    > > Hudson kit until 1948.  Don't let that stop you from making a J3a
                                    > >
                                    > > style Hudson out of it.  You'd have to either re-work the existing
                                    > >
                                    > > skirts or make new ones. 
                                    Ray                                       
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    \                                                                    
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Rudolf de Haas" <redehaas@d...>
                                    > >
                                    > > wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > > Hi, one question from a Dutch member of the group. I'm trying to
                                    > >
                                    > > > profile myself as an inspired Varney collector. I'm specially
                                    > >
                                    > > > interested in the Varney Streamlined pacific/Hudson first
                                    > >
                                    > > introduced
                                    > >
                                    > > > in 1940. In my research I couldn't find a prototype which it was
                                    > >
                                    > > > modeled after. Could it be the NYC J-3a, the Dreyfus Hudson? The
                                    > >
                                    > > nose
                                    > >
                                    > > > just does look like it, but the shell and the skirts it doesn't
                                    > >
                                    > > > match. Does anybody have more information about it? I just threw
                                    > >
                                    > > the
                                    > >
                                    > > > question in the group looking for some answers. Regards, Rudolf.
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                    > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                                    > >  
                                    > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                    > > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                    > >  
                                    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                    Service.
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 384 From: erieberk Date: 2/9/2005
                                    Subject: Re: Serendipity or something
                                    Hi Jack, This number you found cast into the crossbrace of the
                                    integrally cast main frame is the part number (or casting number, as
                                    Rudolph described), and has nothing to do with a manufacturing date.
                                    This F-3 Phase I Diesel kit (kit #1955) was first produced in 1948.
                                    FYI, when the V-4 motor was introduced, it required a newly designed
                                    frame (#1947M) for the additional clearance needed. Yes, these kits
                                    were undecorated, and came unpainted (bare metal) as well. The F-3
                                    Phase I units were used by a number of Railroads, including the DL&W,
                                    C&O, GM&O and AT&SF to name a few. Those rectangular holes on the
                                    nose are for numberboards, but they were not lighted. The part
                                    number for them, in case you need them, is #1950. Likewise, you
                                    should see 4 small holes on the cab roof for 2 airhorns, unless you
                                    have those pieces (otherwise, their part number is #1953, if you need
                                    them). Ray
                                    \
                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Priller" <westpac67@s...>
                                    wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Recently there have been a few posts about Varney, and this past
                                    > weekend I found a Varney die-cast A unit in a back corner of my
                                    > closet that I had COMPLETELY forgotton I even had. Unit has partial
                                    > paint job, but no lettering, so I am assuming it was an undec kit
                                    > that previous owner[s] never finished? Crossbar [best word I can
                                    > think of] from side to side of body and centered between the trucks
                                    > has "1947" cast into it. Is that the year the engine was made or
                                    the
                                    > date the mold was made or what? And please don't ask what the
                                    > prototype was; I don't have clue 1, except that it has
                                    > three 'portholes' on each side, and holes for lighted number
                                    boards.
                                    > [A diesel spotter I ain't!]
                                    >
                                    > Jack Priller
                                    > aka
                                    > Ye Olde Trolleynut
                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 385 From: oahurailway Date: 2/9/2005
                                    Subject: Re: Serendipity or something
                                    >
                                    > Hi Ray,

                                    That's really great that you got to chat with those Varney reps!
                                    I don't know whether James F. Trout is still alive or not, as he'd be
                                    over 100, but he's still listed in the white pages. I'd like to ask
                                    you a question too. To your knowledge was there ever a number such as
                                    DC-?? assigned to the little 6V Pittman motor that powered the first
                                    pre-war Varney "Docksider" ? Apparently Pittman doesn't have an
                                    archive, and I've looked everywhere for this information to no avail.
                                    I'm the person who posted the pix in the photos section of the
                                    6V "Docksider", along with the various valve gear kits. Any
                                    information you may be able to supply will be most appreciated!

                                    Sarita
                                    >
                                    \
                                    > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Priller" <westpac67@s...>
                                    > wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Recently there have been a few posts about Varney, and this past
                                    > > weekend I found a Varney die-cast A unit in a back corner of my
                                    > > closet that I had COMPLETELY forgotton I even had. Unit has
                                    partial
                                    > > paint job, but no lettering, so I am assuming it was an undec kit
                                    > > that previous owner[s] never finished? Crossbar [best word I can
                                    > > think of] from side to side of body and centered between the
                                    trucks
                                    > > has "1947" cast into it. Is that the year the engine was made or
                                    > the
                                    > > date the mold was made or what? And please don't ask what the
                                    > > prototype was; I don't have clue 1, except that it has
                                    > > three 'portholes' on each side, and holes for lighted number
                                    > boards.
                                    > > [A diesel spotter I ain't!]
                                    > >
                                    > > Jack Priller
                                    > > aka
                                    > > Ye Olde Trolleynut
                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 386 From: erieberk Date: 2/9/2005
                                    Subject: Re: Serendipity or something
                                    Hi Sarita, The only numbers I have for the pre-War motors are: VPM -
                                    for the 6 - 8 volt D.C. "All-Purpose" motor (early V-1 1938-1940)
                                    and SPM for the 12 volt D.C. late V-1 (redesigned for 1940-1942)
                                    motor. Sorry I can't help you. As you know (I think it was
                                    discussed) the pre-War dockside wasn't introduced until 1942 and
                                    therefor was not in any catalogs. I have the exploded plans for the
                                    post-War Dockside, but I know that doesn't help you. I can't say if
                                    James F. Trout is alive or not, I never had the fortune of getting to
                                    know him. I do recall he designed the "Mainline" line of freight car
                                    kits for the War years (1940 - 45), among other things if I'm not
                                    mistaken, besides his fine artwork. Ray
                                    \
                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "oahurailway" <two.peaks@v...>
                                    wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > >
                                    > > Hi Ray,
                                    >
                                    > That's really great that you got to chat with those Varney
                                    reps!
                                    > I don't know whether James F. Trout is still alive or not, as he'd
                                    be
                                    > over 100, but he's still listed in the white pages. I'd like to ask
                                    > you a question too. To your knowledge was there ever a number such
                                    as
                                    > DC-?? assigned to the little 6V Pittman motor that powered the
                                    first
                                    > pre-war Varney "Docksider" ? Apparently Pittman doesn't have an
                                    > archive, and I've looked everywhere for this information to no
                                    avail.
                                    > I'm the person who posted the pix in the photos section of the
                                    > 6V "Docksider", along with the various valve gear kits. Any
                                    > information you may be able to supply will be most appreciated!
                                    >
                                    > Sarita
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    \
                                    > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Priller" <westpac67@s...>
                                    > > wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Recently there have been a few posts about Varney, and this
                                    past
                                    > > > weekend I found a Varney die-cast A unit in a back corner of my
                                    > > > closet that I had COMPLETELY forgotton I even had. Unit has
                                    > partial
                                    > > > paint job, but no lettering, so I am assuming it was an undec
                                    kit
                                    > > > that previous owner[s] never finished? Crossbar [best word I
                                    can
                                    > > > think of] from side to side of body and centered between the
                                    > trucks
                                    > > > has "1947" cast into it. Is that the year the engine was made
                                    or
                                    > > the
                                    > > > date the mold was made or what? And please don't ask what the
                                    > > > prototype was; I don't have clue 1, except that it has
                                    > > > three 'portholes' on each side, and holes for lighted number
                                    > > boards.
                                    > > > [A diesel spotter I ain't!]
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Jack Priller
                                    > > > aka
                                    > > > Ye Olde Trolleynut
                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 387 From: oahurailway Date: 2/9/2005
                                    Subject: Re: Serendipity or something
                                    Aloha Ray!

                                    Thanks so much for your kind input! According to Dave Spanagel in
                                    the Varney Book, on page 50 top left paragraph: " This [the Dockside]
                                    was the first Varney locomotive to use a Pittman motor, a small 6-
                                    volt DC design."

                                    Wouldn't you think that there would be some information listed
                                    somewhere on the only 6V motor that Varney used? We know that the
                                    first & smallest 12V post-war Pittman was the DC-60.

                                    Yes, and James F. Trout designed & drew the first Docksider
                                    assembly instructions in 1941. And on pg 14 of the same book, a copy
                                    of the sketch is shown with the blurb that he did the Varney art work
                                    & drawings from 1938 till 1946. Oh well, the motor still remains a
                                    mystery! Thanks again Ray....

                                    Sarita





                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "erieberk" <erieberk@w...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Hi Sarita, The only numbers I have for the pre-War motors are:
                                    VPM -
                                    > for the 6 - 8 volt D.C. "All-Purpose" motor (early V-1 1938-1940)
                                    > and SPM for the 12 volt D.C. late V-1 (redesigned for 1940-1942)
                                    > motor. Sorry I can't help you. As you know (I think it was
                                    > discussed) the pre-War dockside wasn't introduced until 1942 and
                                    > therefor was not in any catalogs. I have the exploded plans for
                                    the
                                    > post-War Dockside, but I know that doesn't help you. I can't say
                                    if
                                    > James F. Trout is alive or not, I never had the fortune of getting
                                    to
                                    > know him. I do recall he designed the "Mainline" line of freight
                                    car
                                    > kits for the War years (1940 - 45), among other things if I'm not
                                    > mistaken, besides his fine artwork.
                                    Ray
                                    >
                                    \
                                    > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "oahurailway" <two.peaks@v...>
                                    > wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Hi Ray,
                                    > >
                                    > > That's really great that you got to chat with those Varney
                                    > reps!
                                    > > I don't know whether James F. Trout is still alive or not, as
                                    he'd
                                    > be
                                    > > over 100, but he's still listed in the white pages. I'd like to
                                    ask
                                    > > you a question too. To your knowledge was there ever a number
                                    such
                                    > as
                                    > > DC-?? assigned to the little 6V Pittman motor that powered the
                                    > first
                                    > > pre-war Varney "Docksider" ? Apparently Pittman doesn't have an
                                    > > archive, and I've looked everywhere for this information to no
                                    > avail.
                                    > > I'm the person who posted the pix in the photos section of the
                                    > > 6V "Docksider", along with the various valve gear kits. Any
                                    > > information you may be able to supply will be most appreciated!
                                    > >
                                    > > Sarita
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    \
                                    > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Priller"
                                    <westpac67@s...>
                                    > > > wrote:
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Recently there have been a few posts about Varney, and this
                                    > past
                                    > > > > weekend I found a Varney die-cast A unit in a back corner of
                                    my
                                    > > > > closet that I had COMPLETELY forgotton I even had. Unit has
                                    > > partial
                                    > > > > paint job, but no lettering, so I am assuming it was an undec
                                    > kit
                                    > > > > that previous owner[s] never finished? Crossbar [best word I
                                    > can
                                    > > > > think of] from side to side of body and centered between the
                                    > > trucks
                                    > > > > has "1947" cast into it. Is that the year the engine was made
                                    > or
                                    > > > the
                                    > > > > date the mold was made or what? And please don't ask what the
                                    > > > > prototype was; I don't have clue 1, except that it has
                                    > > > > three 'portholes' on each side, and holes for lighted number
                                    > > > boards.
                                    > > > > [A diesel spotter I ain't!]
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Jack Priller
                                    > > > > aka
                                    > > > > Ye Olde Trolleynut
                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 388 From: Jack Priller Date: 2/9/2005
                                    Subject: Re: Serendipity or something
                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, redehaas@d... wrote:
                                    > Hi Jack,
                                    >
                                    > Your Varney diesel is a F3 A-unit.
                                    > The date you are referring is not the date but just a number of
                                    the casting.
                                    > So it has nothing to do with the date 1947. Die cast Varney F3's
                                    were made from
                                    > 1948 till 1955/56, so it's about 50 years old! After 1955, Varney
                                    made plastic
                                    > F3´s.
                                    > The value on Ebay is about $30 for a single A unit. If you got a
                                    unpowered B
                                    > unit with it, it´s worth about $50 for both. Note! all depends on
                                    the motor
                                    > inside it! Mostly it´s a common spring drive with a single set of
                                    wheels
                                    > driven. If it´s got the both trucks connected by a tube, it´s
                                    probably the
                                    > Varney so called `Brute`, driven by a Pittman DC 71 motor,worth
                                    about 65 for an
                                    > A and B unit. The most rarest of all is the Varney V4, worth about
                                    $80 . If
                                    > both units are powered, it raises the price!
                                    >
                                    > Regards, Rudolf
                                    >
                                    Thank you, kind sir, and Ray as well. This unit [minus the number
                                    boards AND the horns that Ray mentioned] has the spring belt drive
                                    on the rear truck only, so we're talking m-a-y-b-e $30 if I were to
                                    e-Bay it. Interestingly, jumpered with alligator clips to the
                                    wheels, the headlight works, but the motor doesn't. However, with
                                    the shell removed and alligator clips from power supply to brush
                                    rigging, motor runs just fine. Have to do some cleaning and find
                                    that open circuit.
                                    And even more [financially] interesting is the box that I found it
                                    in [NOT the original] was marked that I paid $5 for it, PLUS a
                                    Bachmann powered A unit and an unknown manufacturer B unit shell
                                    that has the same "3 porthole" set-up as the Varney unit. And the B
                                    unit shell snaps on to the Bachmann A chassis.

                                    Interestinger and interestinger.

                                    Jack
                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 389 From: redehaas@dds.nl Date: 2/10/2005
                                    Subject: Varney Dick Mercer Collection
                                    Wow, this is great!
                                    I'm an inspired Varney collector, but having the Dick Mercer Collection is
                                    absolutely superb! One question, can you put some pictures on the net or send
                                    it to me so I/we can enjoy your collection?
                                    In Europe, vintage US modeltrains are not very popular or just totaly
                                    unknown... I used to be a Fleischmann collector, but now I'm collecting vintage
                                    US trains. My Varney collection is allmost complete and got all the metal
                                    loco's, pre + post war.
                                    An other question: In the early '50's the super V2 mike was made with a brass
                                    casting (this was the new brass shell) just like the Hudson and Berkshire.
                                    During the Korian war it was replaced by a lead boiler. Was this boiler the old
                                    lead SP pacific casting? Or was this boiler the same brass casting but made in
                                    lead?
                                    Kind regards from a rainy Holland,
                                    Rudolf




                                    Citeren erieberk <erieberk@...>:

                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Rudolph,  Sorry, I do not know all of the other five
                                    >
                                    > roads/streamlined engines Varney used in their combination free-lance
                                    >
                                    > streamlined Pacific.  Any guess would be just that, a guess, although
                                    >
                                    > a number of roads used streamlining/shrouding similar to this.  I've
                                    >
                                    > discussed this with Varney's Northeast U.S. representative, Hal
                                    >
                                    > Fletcher, but that was about 20 years ago and don't remember all the
                                    >
                                    > details.  While talking with Dick Mercer (Varney's Southeast U.S,
                                    >
                                    > rep.) just prior to this, he mentioned that he thought one of the
                                    >
                                    > other streamlined Pacifics Gordon used for this styling was the
                                    >
                                    > Southern Railroad's streamlined Ps-4's used on the Tennessean. 
                                    >
                                    > Except for differences in the skirting, it does look very similar. 
                                    >
                                    > Needless to say, I was curious about this also, and getting to know
                                    >
                                    > these guys was great.  I was fortunate to have been able to sit down
                                    >
                                    > with Hal over a Scotch (his favorite drink) at his place in Queens,
                                    >
                                    > NY and discuss Varney at length.  Hal was in his '70's then (and
                                    >
                                    > retired) and decided to sell me his collection of Varney
                                    >
                                    > salesman/demonstrator models, all factory built, of all their
                                    >
                                    > engines.  Hope the info on the streamlined Pacifics helps.  Ray      
                                    >
                                    > \                                                                    
                                    >
                                    > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, redehaas@d... wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > Hi Ray, this sounds interesting. Do you know by occasion the 6
                                    >
                                    > modelled
                                    >
                                    > > streamliners? I allready looked up the LV John Wilkes Pacific. When
                                    >
                                    > you can
                                    >
                                    > > suggest the five others, it could be nice!
                                    >
                                    > > Kind regards from freezing Holland, Rudolf
                                    >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    > > > Rudolph,  No this engine was not modeled after the NYC streamlined
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > > J3a (20th Century Ltd.) engines.  Keep in mind, when Varney first
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > > brought this engine out in December of 1939, it was produced as a
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > > streamlined Pacific, with the suggestion that the modeler could
                                    >
                                    > use a
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > > four wheel trailing truck (from the Yellowstone) to make a
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > > streamlined Hudson.  The model was based on a composite of six
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > > prototype streamlined Pacifics, seemingly closest to Lehigh
                                    >
                                    > Valley's
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > > streamlined John Wilkes Pacific.  It wasn't produced as a
                                    >
                                    > streamlined
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > > Hudson kit until 1948.  Don't let that stop you from making a J3a
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > > style Hudson out of it.  You'd have to either re-work the existing
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > > skirts or make new ones. 
                                    >
                                    > Ray                                       
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > \                                                                    
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Rudolf de Haas" <redehaas@d...>
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > > wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > > >
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > > > Hi, one question from a Dutch member of the group. I'm trying to
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > > > profile myself as an inspired Varney collector. I'm specially
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > > > interested in the Varney Streamlined pacific/Hudson first
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > > introduced
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > > > in 1940. In my research I couldn't find a prototype which it was
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > > > modeled after. Could it be the NYC J-3a, the Dreyfus Hudson? The
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > > nose
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > > > just does look like it, but the shell and the skirts it doesn't
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > > > match. Does anybody have more information about it? I just threw
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > > the
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > > > question in the group looking for some answers. Regards, Rudolf.
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                    >
                                    > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                                    >
                                    > > >  
                                    >
                                    > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                    >
                                    > > > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                    >
                                    > > >  
                                    >
                                    > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                    >
                                    > Service.
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ADVERTISEMENT
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > document.write('');
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                                    >  
                                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                    > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                    >  
                                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 390 From: redehaas@dds.nl Date: 2/10/2005
                                    Subject: Fleischmann US
                                    By the way, Fleischmann made also some interesting US models too!
                                    Even Lionel HO "borrowed" a Fleischmann Pacific steamer in their 1959 trainset.
                                    Remember the nice Baldwin and Alco diesels in different roadnames and the rare
                                    NH EP-5 electric ( --> sold for about $500 these days!). I'd like to remember
                                    the 1955 Penn line catalogue, the NH wagons were tin Fleischmann cars and much
                                    more beautifull than the plastic F7 units (provided by Athearn?). Lot's to
                                    discuss about European crossover after the war! Regards, Rudolf
                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 391 From: erieberk Date: 2/10/2005
                                    Subject: Re: Varney Dick Mercer Collection
                                    Rudolph, It appears as if you may have misread my post. I do not
                                    have Dick Mercer's collection, I have the Hal Fletcher collection.
                                    Right now I do not have a working scanner, but will be looking into
                                    that in the near future. Would be glad to post some shots at that
                                    time. Am very glad to hear your collection is almost complete. Do
                                    you have the aluminum boilered Yellowstone?
                                    The Korean War period Super Berkshires (w/V-2 motors) used the old SP
                                    type lead cast boilers -- #1850-D (that were first used on the
                                    Pacifics and earlier Mikes) from 1951 to 1953. The cast brass boiler
                                    (#1973), that was first used for the Berk from 1950 to 1952, was then
                                    brought back again after this period. Regards, Ray
                                    \
                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, redehaas@d... wrote:
                                    > Wow, this is great!
                                    > I'm an inspired Varney collector, but having the Dick Mercer
                                    Collection is
                                    > absolutely superb! One question, can you put some pictures on the
                                    net or send
                                    > it to me so I/we can enjoy your collection?
                                    > In Europe, vintage US modeltrains are not very popular or just
                                    totaly
                                    > unknown... I used to be a Fleischmann collector, but now I'm
                                    collecting vintage
                                    > US trains. My Varney collection is allmost complete and got all the
                                    metal
                                    > loco's, pre + post war.
                                    > An other question: In the early '50's the super V2 mike was made
                                    with a brass
                                    > casting (this was the new brass shell) just like the Hudson and
                                    Berkshire.
                                    > During the Korian war it was replaced by a lead boiler. Was this
                                    boiler the old
                                    > lead SP pacific casting? Or was this boiler the same brass casting
                                    but made in
                                    > lead?
                                    > Kind regards from a rainy Holland,
                                    > Rudolf
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Citeren erieberk <erieberk@w...>:
                                    >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Rudolph,  Sorry, I do not know all of the other five
                                    > >
                                    > > roads/streamlined engines Varney used in their combination free-
                                    lance
                                    > >
                                    > > streamlined Pacific.  Any guess would be just that, a guess,
                                    although
                                    > >
                                    > > a number of roads used streamlining/shrouding similar to this. 
                                    I've
                                    > >
                                    > > discussed this with Varney's Northeast U.S. representative, Hal
                                    > >
                                    > > Fletcher, but that was about 20 years ago and don't remember all
                                    the
                                    > >
                                    > > details.  While talking with Dick Mercer (Varney's Southeast U.S,
                                    > >
                                    > > rep.) just prior to this, he mentioned that he thought one of the
                                    > >
                                    > > other streamlined Pacifics Gordon used for this styling was the
                                    > >
                                    > > Southern Railroad's streamlined Ps-4's used on the Tennessean. 
                                    > >
                                    > > Except for differences in the skirting, it does look very
                                    similar. 
                                    > >
                                    > > Needless to say, I was curious about this also, and getting to
                                    know
                                    > >
                                    > > these guys was great.  I was fortunate to have been able to sit
                                    down
                                    > >
                                    > > with Hal over a Scotch (his favorite drink) at his place in
                                    Queens,
                                    > >
                                    > > NY and discuss Varney at length.  Hal was in his '70's then (and
                                    > >
                                    > > retired) and decided to sell me his collection of Varney
                                    > >
                                    > > salesman/demonstrator models, all factory built, of all their
                                    > >
                                    > > engines.  Hope the info on the streamlined Pacifics helps. 
                                    Ray      
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    \                                                                    
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, redehaas@d... wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > > Hi Ray, this sounds interesting. Do you know by occasion the 6
                                    > >
                                    > > modelled
                                    > >
                                    > > > streamliners? I allready looked up the LV John Wilkes Pacific.
                                    When
                                    > >
                                    > > you can
                                    > >
                                    > > > suggest the five others, it could be nice!
                                    > >
                                    > > > Kind regards from freezing Holland, Rudolf
                                    > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > > > Rudolph,  No this engine was not modeled after the NYC
                                    streamlined
                                    > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > > > J3a (20th Century Ltd.) engines.  Keep in mind, when Varney
                                    first
                                    > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > > > brought this engine out in December of 1939, it was produced
                                    as a
                                    > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > > > streamlined Pacific, with the suggestion that the modeler
                                    could
                                    > >
                                    > > use a
                                    > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > > > four wheel trailing truck (from the Yellowstone) to make a
                                    > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > > > streamlined Hudson.  The model was based on a composite of six
                                    > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > > > prototype streamlined Pacifics, seemingly closest to Lehigh
                                    > >
                                    > > Valley's
                                    > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > > > streamlined John Wilkes Pacific.  It wasn't produced as a
                                    > >
                                    > > streamlined
                                    > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > > > Hudson kit until 1948.  Don't let that stop you from making a
                                    J3a
                                    > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > > > style Hudson out of it.  You'd have to either re-work the
                                    existing
                                    > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > > > skirts or make new ones. 
                                    > >
                                    > > Ray                                       
                                    > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    \                                                                    
                                    > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Rudolf de Haas"
                                    <redehaas@d...>
                                    > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > > > wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > > > > Hi, one question from a Dutch member of the group. I'm
                                    trying to
                                    > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > > > > profile myself as an inspired Varney collector. I'm
                                    specially
                                    > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > > > > interested in the Varney Streamlined pacific/Hudson first
                                    > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > > > introduced
                                    > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > > > > in 1940. In my research I couldn't find a prototype which
                                    it was
                                    > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > > > > modeled after. Could it be the NYC J-3a, the Dreyfus
                                    Hudson? The
                                    > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > > > nose
                                    > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > > > > just does look like it, but the shell and the skirts it
                                    doesn't
                                    > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > > > > match. Does anybody have more information about it? I just
                                    threw
                                    > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > > > the
                                    > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > > > > question in the group looking for some answers. Regards,
                                    Rudolf.
                                    > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > > >
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                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 392 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/14/2005
                                    Subject: Athearn metal instructions
                                    Does anyone have an instruction sheet for an Athearn metal 50' DD Auto Box
                                    (the AAR Roof santa fe style, not the round roof PRR style) that they could
                                    scan and e-mail or post to files?

                                    Just scored on an unbuilt kit on eBay, but no instruction sheet.

                                    I'm sure I could puzzle it out, but there's a few pieces in there that don't
                                    look familiar. All my Athearn and Globe to this date have been "built-ups".

                                    Thanks

                                    Don

                                    don.dellmann@...
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                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 393 From: erieberk Date: 2/14/2005
                                    Subject: Re: Athearn metal instructions
                                    Sure Don, Let me have your home address and I'll mail a copy out to
                                    you. You can e-mail me direct if you don't want to advertise your
                                    address, at << erieberk@... >>. Any other kit plans you
                                    need at this same time (Athearn or anything else??)? Look around,
                                    you may need something, wood or metal. Ray
                                    \
                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...>
                                    wrote:
                                    > Does anyone have an instruction sheet for an Athearn metal 50' DD
                                    Auto Box
                                    > (the AAR Roof santa fe style, not the round roof PRR style) that
                                    they could
                                    > scan and e-mail or post to files?
                                    >
                                    > Just scored on an unbuilt kit on eBay, but no instruction sheet.
                                    >
                                    > I'm sure I could puzzle it out, but there's a few pieces in there
                                    that don't
                                    > look familiar. All my Athearn and Globe to this date have
                                    been "built-ups".
                                    >
                                    > Thanks
                                    >
                                    > Don
                                    >
                                    > don.dellmann@p...
                                    > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                    > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                    > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                    > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                    > co-moderator: SCENERY@Y...
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                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 394 From: don.dellmann Date: 2/14/2005
                                    Subject: Re: Athearn metal instructions
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: erieberk <erieberk@...>
                                    To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 2:58 PM
                                    Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn metal instructions


                                    >
                                    > Sure Don, Let me have your home address and I'll mail a copy out to
                                    > you. You can e-mail me direct if you don't want to advertise your
                                    > address, at << erieberk@... >>. Any other kit plans you
                                    > need at this same time (Athearn or anything else??)? Look around,
                                    > you may need something, wood or metal. Ray
                                    > \

                                    Thanks, I really appreciate that.

                                    I use a PO box, so no problem posting.

                                    Don Dellmann
                                    P.O. Box 240491
                                    Milwaukee, WI 53224

                                    Don

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                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 395 From: Gerry Date: 2/14/2005
                                    Subject: OK, so it's not that vintage...
                                    Just got to tell someone.
                                    I won the bid on an A-B set of Mantua Metal Sharknose Baldwin Diesels.

                                    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5955539104

                                    I think it's worth it. Any opinions?

                                    Cordially,

                                    Gerry D.
                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 396 From: Roger Aultman Date: 2/14/2005
                                    Subject: Re: OK, so it's not that vintage...
                                    Look nice, don't see the B units real often. Roger Aultman




                                    Gerry wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Just got to tell someone.
                                    > I won the bid on an A-B set of Mantua Metal Sharknose Baldwin Diesels.
                                    >
                                    > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5955539104
                                    >
                                    > I think it's worth it. Any opinions?
                                    >
                                    > Cordially,
                                    >
                                    > Gerry D.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
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                                    >
                                    >
                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 397 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/14/2005
                                    Subject: Latest find
                                    Attachments :
                                      As I mentioned in my post this morning, here's my latest find on eBay.

                                      Including shipping, just under ten bucks. The stuff is still out there,
                                      just have to look.

                                      Don

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                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 398 From: don.dellmann Date: 2/14/2005
                                      Subject: Re: OK, so it's not that vintage...
                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: Gerry <gerard_sr@...>
                                      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 8:54 PM
                                      Subject: [vintageHO] OK, so it's not that vintage...


                                      >
                                      > Just got to tell someone.
                                      > I won the bid on an A-B set of Mantua Metal Sharknose Baldwin Diesels.
                                      >
                                      > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5955539104
                                      >
                                      > I think it's worth it. Any opinions?
                                      >
                                      > Cordially,
                                      >
                                      > Gerry D.

                                      I'd say it's a pretty good deal.

                                      I had one of the A shells once, but never had a drive under it (although
                                      Hobbytown made one, I think it was the same as the Athearn F-7)

                                      I don't know as I've ever seen a B unit.

                                      Don

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                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 399 From: Wobbly913 Date: 2/14/2005
                                      Subject: Re: 1950s Varney Docksider
                                      I just bought a dockside on ebay for $20.00 plus $6.00 freight.  It is supposed to be from the 1950's.  It has brass wheels, but not the fancy valve gear. I do hope it will run, the auction infromation did not specify.
                                       
                                      Wobbly913

                                      redehaas@... wrote:
                                      Hi Bill,

                                      The Varney Docksider is not that collectable. You see them a lot on the Ebay
                                      for reasonable prices. You find a good post-war die-cast one for about $50.
                                      Plastic versions are cheaper and less collectable, but you can collect
                                      different roadnames though. So if you're planning to remotor it with dcc you
                                      can do it in my opinion.
                                      However, if you have the pre-war 6V one, I don't recommend changing it.
                                      The die-cast 6V Docsiders were only made during the early years of the 2nd WW,
                                      so it's collectable to me...

                                      Regards, Rudolf




                                      Citeren "Bill D." <retiredgrouch@...>:

                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Recent posts/questions about the venerable Docksider led me to dig
                                      >
                                      > out my "old friend".  It needs a new motor.  Now the question....
                                      >
                                      > does a motor upgrade similar to what Earl Smallshaw did years ago,
                                      >
                                      > and a dcc decoder add to or dimish the collectability/value of this
                                      >
                                      > little gem?
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Awaiting your considered replies,
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > billD
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                                      >  
                                      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                      > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                      >  
                                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >




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                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 400 From: Kjb80401@aol.com Date: 2/14/2005
                                      Subject: Re: OK, so it's not that vintage...
                                      In a message dated 2/14/2005 8:40:52 PM Mountain Standard Time, don.dellmann@... writes:
                                      I don't know as I've ever seen a B unit.
                                       
                                      I had both an A and a B which I sold to a friend some five years ago.  B's do exist.
                                       
                                      Keevan
                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 401 From: don.dellmann Date: 2/15/2005
                                      Subject: Re: 1950s Varney Docksider
                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...>
                                      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 9:51 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 1950s Varney Docksider


                                      > I just bought a dockside on ebay for $20.00 plus $6.00 freight. It is
                                      supposed to be from the 1950's. It has brass wheels, but not the fancy
                                      valve gear. I do hope it will run, the auction infromation did not specify.
                                      >
                                      > Wobbly913

                                      Did Varney ever make it with the full valve gear? I know Kemtron, later
                                      precision scale, made a valve gear kit for it. The one I always liked was
                                      Kemtron's "Cab Forward" conversion for the dockside.

                                      Don

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                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 402 From: redehaas@dds.nl Date: 2/15/2005
                                      Subject: Re: 1950s Varney Docksider
                                      Varney made a valve gear kit #2641 for the Docksider.
                                      Also Central Valley Valve had a valve gear kit.
                                      Now Bowser makes a Docksider kit.
                                      Please look at the pictures in the photo album: 1941 Varney 6V Dockside.

                                      Regards,
                                      Rudolf






                                      I just bought a dockside on ebay for $20.00 plus $6.00 freight.  It is
                                      >
                                      > supposed to be from the 1950's.  It has brass wheels, but not the fancy
                                      >
                                      > valve gear. I do hope it will run, the auction infromation did not specify.
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > Wobbly913
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Did Varney ever make it with the full valve gear?  I know Kemtron, later
                                      >
                                      > precision scale, made a valve gear kit for it.  The one I always liked was
                                      >
                                      > Kemtron's "Cab Forward" conversion for the dockside.
                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 403 From: Wobbly913 Date: 2/15/2005
                                      Subject: Re: 1950s Varney Docksider
                                      Thanks for both replies.  I went to the Bowser website, they offer a valve gear kit for the Dockside for $20. They also offer  standard parts as well as detail parts.    They offer the whole engine brand new for 49.95, with the valve gear. I could have bought that, but would not have gotten a semi collectable Varney from the 1950's!!
                                       
                                      I will wait to see just what I get, whether or not it runs etc. before deciding just what I will do with my new model.
                                       
                                      Wobbly913

                                      redehaas@... wrote:
                                      Varney made a valve gear kit #2641 for the Docksider.
                                      Also Central Valley Valve had a valve gear kit.
                                      Now Bowser makes a Docksider kit.
                                      Please look at the pictures in the photo album: 1941 Varney 6V Dockside.

                                      Regards,
                                      Rudolf
                                      > Did Varney ever make it with the full valve gear?  I know Kemtron, later
                                      >
                                      > precision scale, made a valve gear kit for it.  The one I always liked was
                                      >
                                      > Kemtron's "Cab Forward" conversion for the dockside.


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                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 404 From: dhopf1 Date: 2/17/2005
                                      Subject: Items on Ebay
                                      While scanning Ebay, find these items.

                                      http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
                                      ViewItem&category=38278&item=5957121951&rd=1

                                      Which is a 2 1937-46 Varney V1 motors.

                                      http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
                                      ViewItem&category=38278&item=5957069360&rd=1

                                      Which is a Varney F3 diesel with the 3 step pulley drive. Looks to be
                                      good condition.

                                      I'm not pushing these. Just thought it might create some thoughts.

                                      Thanks

                                      Don Hopf
                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 405 From: dhopf1 Date: 2/17/2005
                                      Subject: Re: Items on Ebay
                                      Looks I didn't copy the address right. The motors are item
                                      item=5957121951 and the F3 is item=5957069360.

                                      Sorry about that.
                                      Don Hopf
                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "dhopf1" <dhopf1@i...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > While scanning Ebay, find these items.
                                      >
                                      > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
                                      > ViewItem&category=38278&item=5957121951&rd=1
                                      >
                                      > Which is a 2 1937-46 Varney V1 motors.
                                      >
                                      > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
                                      > ViewItem&category=38278&item=5957069360&rd=1
                                      >
                                      > Which is a Varney F3 diesel with the 3 step pulley drive. Looks to
                                      be
                                      > good condition.
                                      >
                                      > I'm not pushing these. Just thought it might create some thoughts.
                                      >
                                      > Thanks
                                      >
                                      > Don Hopf
                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 406 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/18/2005
                                      Subject: Re: Athearn metal instructions
                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "erieberk" <erieberk@w...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Sure Don, Let me have your home address and I'll mail a copy out
                                      to
                                      > you. You can e-mail me direct if you don't want to advertise your
                                      > address, at << erieberk@w... >>. Any other kit plans you
                                      > need at this same time (Athearn or anything else??)? Look around,
                                      > you may need something, wood or metal. Ray

                                      Got 'em yesterday (Thursday). Thanks. The "mystery pieces" were the
                                      door posts and "W" bar roof angles. I would have probably NOT
                                      figured out fastening the bolsters from the inside either.

                                      Thanks again!

                                      Don
                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 407 From: Garry Spear Date: 2/18/2005
                                      Subject: Re: Items on eBay
                                      There are some old metal Globe OB Boxcar Kits, a stock car kit (good for
                                      parts), and nice other metal kits for the collector (or operator).

                                      My items are:
                                      Globe D&RGW Automobile Boxcar
                                      http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=19130&item=5957324893

                                      Globe CP Boxcar
                                      http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=19130&item=5957324263

                                      Globe UP Stock Car
                                      http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=19130&item=5957324714

                                      Athearn Early Metal GN Boxcar - Orange
                                      http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=19130&item=5957324523

                                      Thanks Garry Spear
                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 408 From: don.dellmann Date: 2/18/2005
                                      Subject: Re: Items on eBay
                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: Garry Spear <gspear01@...>
                                      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 11:09 AM
                                      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Items on eBay


                                      > There are some old metal Globe OB Boxcar Kits, a stock car kit (good for
                                      > parts), and nice other metal kits for the collector (or operator).
                                      >
                                      > My items are:
                                      > Globe D&RGW Automobile Boxcar
                                      >
                                      http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=19130&item=5957324893
                                      >
                                      > Globe CP Boxcar
                                      >
                                      http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=19130&item=5957324263
                                      >
                                      > Globe UP Stock Car
                                      >
                                      http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=19130&item=5957324714
                                      >
                                      > Athearn Early Metal GN Boxcar - Orange
                                      >
                                      http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=19130&item=5957324523
                                      >
                                      > Thanks Garry Spear

                                      They're tempting! Too bad I'm broke for a couple weeks :-(

                                      Don

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                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 409 From: Jack Priller Date: 2/18/2005
                                      Subject: Slightly? off topic
                                      Reading about those old Globe items reminded me to take a glance
                                      thru the accumulation of as-yet un-built kits I have; one of them is
                                      a 1/4" scale Hawk Models #301 gondola. Nothing but wood and
                                      cardstock, except for the paper instruction sheet, signed by Phil
                                      Mates on 9/1/37. The cast brake cylinder and brake wheel are
                                      missing. Anybody know anybody who wants one?

                                      Jack Priller
                                      aka
                                      Ye Olde Trolleynut
                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 410 From: wobbly913 Date: 2/20/2005
                                      Subject: Parts for Lionel GS4
                                      I have recently purchased 2 Lionel GS4's on Ebay. Both of them have
                                      problems with the drivers. The stub axle that sticks out from the
                                      wheels have broken off, (not all of them) leaving the engines pretty
                                      useless. One of them also may have a bad motor. I would like to keep
                                      them both stock and replace all with Lionel parts. So my question is
                                      does anyone know of a parts source for origional Lionel parts?

                                      I am aware that bachman still makes the engines and I have emailed
                                      them from their webpage asking for parts information but they have
                                      not responded to my two requests.

                                      Any other ideas?? I have also considered the Bowser repowering units,
                                      which look very nice, but I want to keep the models original if
                                      possible.

                                      Wobbly913
                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 411 From: Larry Stevenson Date: 2/23/2005
                                      Subject: Re: Parts for Lionel GS4
                                      wobbly
                                       
                                      Go to this link.  Then click on the "Bruces Collectible Lionel HO Trains".  I have never talk with the owner of this site but maybe if you email him he can help you.
                                       
                                       
                                      Hope this helps.
                                       
                                      Larry

                                      wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> wrote:

                                      I have recently purchased 2 Lionel GS4's on Ebay. Both of them have
                                      problems with the drivers.  The stub axle that sticks out from the
                                      wheels have broken off, (not all of them) leaving the engines pretty
                                      useless. One of them also may have a bad motor. I would like to keep
                                      them both stock and replace all with Lionel parts. So my question is
                                      does anyone know of a parts source for origional Lionel parts?

                                      I am aware that bachman still makes the engines and I have emailed
                                      them from their webpage asking for parts information but they have
                                      not responded to my two requests.

                                      Any other ideas?? I have also considered the Bowser repowering units,
                                      which look very nice, but I want to keep the models original if
                                      possible.

                                      Wobbly913




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                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 412 From: photobysam@yahoo.com Date: 2/24/2005
                                      Subject: GM&O Doodle bug & trailer
                                      Looking for drawings, floor layout and photo's of the GM&O Doodle bug
                                      and trailer. I have the Walthers kit and would like to replace the
                                      sides with better detailed ones and detail it.
                                      TIA,
                                      Sam
                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 413 From: Jack Priller Date: 2/25/2005
                                      Subject: Re: GM&O Doodle bug & trailer
                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, photobysam@y... wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Looking for drawings, floor layout and photo's of the GM&O Doodle
                                      bug
                                      > and trailer. I have the Walthers kit and would like to replace the
                                      > sides with better detailed ones and detail it.
                                      > TIA,
                                      > Sam

                                      A quick 'google' image search didn't turn up much that you could
                                      use, unfortunately. Have you tried the GM&O Historical Society?
                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 414 From: Gerry D Date: 2/25/2005
                                      Subject: Re: GM&O Doodle bug & trailer
                                      http://rr-fallenflags.org/gmo/gmo-ge1821asw.jpg

                                      http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/doodlebugs/

                                      http://www.trainweb.org/passengercars/Indices/Doodlebug1.htm

                                      http://www.trainweb.org/passengercars/Indices/Doodlebug2.htm

                                      Best I found... Sorry, no floor plans...

                                      Gerry


                                      --- Jack Priller <westpac67@...> wrote:

                                      >
                                      > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, photobysam@y...
                                      > wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Looking for drawings, floor layout and photo's of
                                      > the GM&O Doodle
                                      > bug
                                      > > and trailer. I have the Walthers kit and would
                                      > like to replace the
                                      > > sides with better detailed ones and detail it.
                                      > > TIA,
                                      > > Sam
                                      >
                                      > A quick 'google' image search didn't turn up much
                                      > that you could
                                      > use, unfortunately. Have you tried the GM&O
                                      > Historical Society?
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >




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                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 415 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/26/2005
                                      Subject: Athearn metal
                                      Attachments :
                                        You may recall I got an Athearn metal 50' box kit on eBay a couple weeks
                                        ago. Well, got her put together (thanks again Ray for the instructions)

                                        Don

                                        don.dellmann@...
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                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 416 From: Don Riley Date: 2/26/2005
                                        Subject: Re: Athearn metal
                                        Cool!
                                         
                                        I have several assorted Athearn metal kits but I am reluctant to assemble them because it is so cool that they have stayed in kit form for so manny years! I do have a few that were assembled that I have pulled some. I even have working band drive engines to pull them with!
                                         
                                        Steamengine 4449

                                        Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                        You may recall I got an Athearn metal 50' box kit on eBay a couple weeks
                                        ago.  Well, got her put together (thanks again Ray for the instructions)

                                        Don


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                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 417 From: don.dellmann Date: 2/26/2005
                                        Subject: Re: Athearn metal
                                        I guess that's the difference between me and a real "collector". The purist
                                        would be aghast that I took a kit that had lain undisturbed in the box for
                                        46 years and put it together.

                                        I also have a Thomas 6 dome wine tanker on the workbench about half done.
                                        That's my next project to complete, as soon as I stop at the hobby shop for
                                        some 2:56 x 1/4 flat head screws. (I've already given several collectors
                                        heart failure by using Kemtron/Precision Scale handrail stanchions instead
                                        of the stamped metal ones that came in the kit!)

                                        That's why I call this list "Vintage HO OPERATORS"

                                        Don

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                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: Don Riley <steamengine4449us@...>
                                        To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 3:35 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Athearn metal


                                        > Cool!
                                        >
                                        > I have several assorted Athearn metal kits but I am reluctant to assemble
                                        them because it is so cool that they have stayed in kit form for so manny
                                        years! I do have a few that were assembled that I have pulled some. I even
                                        have working band drive engines to pull them with!
                                        >
                                        > Steamengine 4449
                                        >
                                        > Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                        > You may recall I got an Athearn metal 50' box kit on eBay a couple weeks
                                        > ago. Well, got her put together (thanks again Ray for the instructions)
                                        >
                                        > Don
                                        >
                                        > ---------------------------------
                                        > Do you Yahoo!?
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                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 418 From: erieberk Date: 2/26/2005
                                        Subject: Re: Athearn metal
                                        Nice work Don, it looks real good. Appears as if you took your time
                                        on it and did it right. While I'm a die-hard metal collector, I
                                        occasionally build one, especially of a road I want to see operating
                                        on the layout. The general opinion seems to be that if a kit is put
                                        together "professionally" and has a great finished appearance, its
                                        worth almost as much as the kit. Others say its worth more than in
                                        kit form. I go with the former bunch, in feeling that the kit is
                                        king. But then, who's kidding who? -- we'll never sell them anyway,
                                        we'll die with them. But if anyone doesn't want the guilt trip of
                                        building an original kit, they can always build a G.F.Menzies (or
                                        D.J.Baker) re-issue. Although there's no box, the end result is the
                                        same. I personally feel a well built metal car has a very realistic
                                        appearance; the baked on finish makes the car look exactly like the
                                        steel-sheathed box car it supposed to represent. Ray
                                        \
                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...>
                                        wrote:
                                        > You may recall I got an Athearn metal 50' box kit on eBay a couple
                                        weeks
                                        > ago. Well, got her put together (thanks again Ray for the
                                        instructions)
                                        >
                                        > Don
                                        >
                                        > don.dellmann@p...
                                        > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
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                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 419 From: Larry Stevenson Date: 2/27/2005
                                        Subject: Re: Athearn metal
                                        Don
                                         
                                        I feel the same way. If I really like a kit and also plan on using it on my railroad, I will assemble it.  Guess I am not a true collector either.  Personally,  I think built and unbuilt kits are worth about same, especially if it has been built properly and is in good condition.  Keep up the great work, you did a nice job on Kit A 205.
                                         
                                        Nothing shocks me anymore, about model trains and what what people do to them.  I have bought trains from many venues (local papers, train shows, garage sales, word of mouth, etc.).  You would be amazed at some of the repair jobs and kitbash attempts, I have seen.  So Don, adding kemtrom handrails won't stop my heart.  Maybe you'll have better luck on your next project.   lol 
                                         
                                        Larry 

                                        "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                        I guess that's the difference between me and a real "collector".  The purist
                                        would be aghast that I took a kit that had lain undisturbed in the box for
                                        46 years and put it together.

                                        I also have a Thomas 6 dome wine tanker on the workbench about half done.
                                        That's my next project to complete, as soon as I stop at the hobby shop for
                                        some 2:56 x 1/4 flat head screws.  (I've already given several collectors
                                        heart failure by using Kemtron/Precision Scale handrail stanchions instead
                                        of the stamped metal ones that came in the kit!)

                                        That's why I call this list "Vintage HO OPERATORS"

                                        Don

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                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: Don Riley <steamengine4449us@...>
                                        To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 3:35 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Athearn metal


                                        > Cool!
                                        >
                                        > I have several assorted Athearn metal kits but I am reluctant to assemble
                                        them because it is so cool that they have stayed in kit form for so manny
                                        years! I do have a few that were assembled that I have pulled some. I even
                                        have working band drive engines to pull them with!
                                        >
                                        > Steamengine 4449
                                        >
                                        > Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                        > You may recall I got an Athearn metal 50' box kit on eBay a couple weeks
                                        > ago.  Well, got her put together (thanks again Ray for the instructions)
                                        >
                                        > Don
                                        >
                                        > ---------------------------------
                                        > Do you Yahoo!?
                                        >  Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.



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                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 420 From: Roger Aultman Date: 2/27/2005
                                        Subject: Re: Athearn metal
                                        Very neat assembly job Don, this will be a good addition to a your RR.
                                        Roger Aultman



                                        Don Dellmann wrote:
                                        > You may recall I got an Athearn metal 50' box kit on eBay a couple weeks
                                        > ago. Well, got her put together (thanks again Ray for the instructions)
                                        >
                                        > Don
                                        >
                                        > don.dellmann@...
                                        > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                        > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
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                                        > co-moderator: SCENERY@...
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                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                        >
                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 421 From: don.dellmann Date: 2/27/2005
                                        Subject: Re: Athearn metal
                                        Thanks. It was a little different work than what I'm used to.

                                        Don

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                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: Roger Aultman <raul@...>
                                        To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 12:14 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Athearn metal


                                        > Very neat assembly job Don, this will be a good addition to a your RR.
                                        > Roger Aultman
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Don Dellmann wrote:
                                        > > You may recall I got an Athearn metal 50' box kit on eBay a couple weeks
                                        > > ago. Well, got her put together (thanks again Ray for the instructions)
                                        > >
                                        > > Don
                                        > >
                                        > > don.dellmann@...
                                        > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                        > > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
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                                        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
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                                        > >
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                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 422 From: James B Date: 2/27/2005
                                        Subject: 10th Annual Model Train Show March 13th Cedarburg, WI
                                        We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

                                        The METRO Model Railroad Club, Ltd's 10th Annual Model Train
                                        Show is scheduled for Sunday, March 13th at Circle B Recreation on
                                        Highway 60 in Cedarburg, WI.
                                        A new addition to the show this year, weather permitting, will be
                                        train rides for the kids outdoors on the The West Bend, Jackson and
                                        Southern's 1 ½-inch scale trains.
                                        Six different model railroad groups will show layouts in all
                                        scales ranging from N gauge to 1 ½-inch scale at this year's
                                        show. The Cedar Creek Central of Jackson will show its large HO layout
                                        with many Midwestern scenes. The West Bend Ballast Scorchers will
                                        bring their remarkably detailed modular N scale layout. The Badgerland
                                        S Gaugers will show the classic American Flyer scale trains as well as
                                        new S-scale trains that are currently available. The West Bend,
                                        Jackson and Southern will bring many examples of G scale equipment
                                        that is most frequently used to create outdoor garden railroads, and
                                        will also display some 1 ½-inch scale trains.
                                        The Grandkids Railroad will be on hand with its dazzling
                                        display of lights and sounds as well as multiple trains running at
                                        once. In addition, METRO will be again showing its HO layout featuring
                                        highly detailed scenes and animations, which has delighted audiences
                                        for more than 20 years, and which has twice won the blue ribbon at the
                                        NMRA's National Train Show.
                                        In addition, more than 50 tables of dealers and swappers from all
                                        over Wisconsin will be on hand to buy, sell, and trade model railroad
                                        equipment, both new and used. Some notable dealers are Don Manlick of
                                        DM Custom Decals who will be selling his GB&W and other decals, NEW
                                        Hobbies of Green Bay, Cannonball Models of Madison that specializes in
                                        N scale, Paint Plus Trains of Prairie Du Sac, Mullet River & Southern
                                        Hobbies, Setco Trains, The Toy Train Depot with a huge selection of
                                        railroad video's, Bill Priepke of Scale Rail Graphics with his
                                        GB&W, WC, WSOR and other decals and bright white led's, as well as
                                        many other dealers. The many club members and dealers on hand will be
                                        able to help modelers young and old with layout design, problem
                                        solving, and scenic hints.
                                        Attendees can sign up for door prizes, which include railroading
                                        books and one-year subscriptions to Kalmbach Publishing's magazine
                                        Model Railroader.
                                        This is the tenth consecutive year for the show, which has
                                        become the largest in southeast Wisconsin after Train Fest. The METRO
                                        Club is based in Port Washington and is in the process of creating a
                                        large HO layout in the basement of the Harbor Village. Membership in
                                        all of the clubs showing is open; attendees can talk to club members
                                        at the show for membership details. METRO can be found on the web at
                                        www.metrorrclub.org. There is also a map on the website on getting to
                                        the show
                                        Show hours are 10 a.m. to 4 p.m. Admission is $2 for adults; as
                                        always, children under 12 are admitted free when accompanied by an
                                        adult.

                                        James Bartelt
                                        Secretary/Show Chairman
                                        METRO Model Railroad Club, Ltd.
                                        jimbartelt@...
                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 423 From: Bill Daley Date: 2/27/2005
                                        Subject: Re: GM&O Doodle bug & trailer


                                        photobysam@... wrote:


                                        Sir,

                                        Model Railroader had an article in the late 50's about a GM&O doodlebug, on a run southbound through Illinois(?) I do believe there was a scale drawing of the motor car unit. Might take a litle digging, but doesn't the NMRA Kalmbach library contain all issues of MR?  When you have the issue date nailed down, you then may be able to order a scanned reprint from Kalmbach Pub for a few $$$

                                        retired grouch in "Joisey" 



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                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 424 From: Gerry D Date: 2/27/2005
                                        Subject: Re: GM&O Doodle bug & trailer
                                        Jack,
                                        have you tried the historical society?
                                        http://www.gmohs.org

                                        Or as the retired grouch in "Joisey" (Mr. Bill Daley)
                                        suggested, it's here:
                                        http://index.mrmag.com/tm.exe?opt=I&MAG=MR&MO=4&YR=1959&output=3&sort=A

                                        I don't have that issue.

                                        Cordially,
                                        Gerry

                                        --- Jack Priller <westpac67@...> wrote:

                                        >
                                        > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, photobysam@y...
                                        > wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > Looking for drawings, floor layout and photo's of
                                        > the GM&O Doodle
                                        > bug
                                        > > and trailer. I have the Walthers kit and would
                                        > like to replace the
                                        > > sides with better detailed ones and detail it.
                                        > > TIA,
                                        > > Sam
                                        >
                                        > A quick 'google' image search didn't turn up much
                                        > that you could
                                        > use, unfortunately. Have you tried the GM&O
                                        > Historical Society?
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >




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                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 425 From: bobaroo7 Date: 2/28/2005
                                        Subject: Alco High Hood Switcher
                                        I glad to be in this group!

                                        Growinp up, I remembering seeing an HO switcher in a display case in
                                        The Hobby Shop in Knoxville, Tennessee aroubd 1957-1958. I may have
                                        been an ALCO HH660 type unit and it had couplers similar to O scale
                                        KMT lift-a-matic couplers. I hope that someone could tell me who
                                        might have made that loco.

                                        Thanks.

                                        Bob Blackwelder
                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 426 From: bobaroo7 Date: 2/28/2005
                                        Subject: Ambroid Kit
                                        I recently obtained an Ambroid 1/5000 work/ caboose combine which I
                                        have treasured for years. What modern adhesives do I use in
                                        constructing this kit?

                                        Thanks.

                                        Bob Blackwelder
                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 427 From: don.dellmann Date: 2/28/2005
                                        Subject: Re: Alco High Hood Switcher
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: bobaroo7 <STOCKCREEK@...>
                                        To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 8:08 AM
                                        Subject: [vintageHO] Alco High Hood Switcher


                                        >
                                        >
                                        > I glad to be in this group!
                                        >
                                        > Growinp up, I remembering seeing an HO switcher in a display case in
                                        > The Hobby Shop in Knoxville, Tennessee aroubd 1957-1958. I may have
                                        > been an ALCO HH660 type unit and it had couplers similar to O scale
                                        > KMT lift-a-matic couplers. I hope that someone could tell me who
                                        > might have made that loco.
                                        >
                                        > Thanks.
                                        >
                                        > Bob Blackwelder

                                        If it was a heavy die-cast body it could have been a Walthers. They made a
                                        set of castings from the late 1930's to sometime in the 1980's. It was a
                                        crude model, but could be adapted to an Athearn drive.

                                        Don

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                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 428 From: don.dellmann Date: 2/28/2005
                                        Subject: Re: Ambroid Kit
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: bobaroo7 <STOCKCREEK@...>
                                        To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 8:11 AM
                                        Subject: [vintageHO] Ambroid Kit


                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > I recently obtained an Ambroid 1/5000 work/ caboose combine which I
                                        > have treasured for years. What modern adhesives do I use in
                                        > constructing this kit?
                                        >
                                        > Thanks.
                                        >
                                        > Bob Blackwelder

                                        Well, Ambroid sold those kits (actually made by Northeastern) to try and
                                        sell Ambroid glue which is still available. I never liked it though, I
                                        build my wood kits with plain old Elmer's.

                                        A good contact cement like Duco or Weldwood would probably work well too.

                                        Don

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                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 429 From: Kjb80401@aol.com Date: 2/28/2005
                                        Subject: Re: Ambroid Kit
                                        In a message dated 2/28/2005 1:12:29 PM Mountain Standard Time, don.dellmann@... writes:
                                        Well, Ambroid sold those kits (actually made by Northeastern) to try and
                                        sell Ambroid glue which is still available.  I never liked it though, I
                                        build my wood kits with plain old Elmer's.
                                        I agree that the Ambroid glue is not desirable.  I've had joints let loose after a number of years.
                                         
                                        I use Elmers or Titebond yellow glue as it has a faster 'tack time' and therefor works quicker.  For what little it's worth, yellow glue is also stronger.
                                         
                                        Keevan
                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 430 From: Don Riley Date: 2/28/2005
                                        Subject: Re: glues was Ambroid Kit
                                        I gotta say I am not feelin' the love for Ambroid glue here! lol
                                         
                                        I happen to use Ambroid glue!! I have not had any problems with it letting go so far. I started using it after I tryed Walther's goo. That stuff is gooy! I mean it strings and is a total mess. I used it to build a Walthers boxcar. Well the plastic is holding together fine. But the metal weights are not! Yes one totally let go. I am not having the same problem with Ambroid.
                                        The only problem with Ambroid is ruins paint if it gets on it! This can cause problems with attaching little detail parts. Of course glueing from inside stops this when glueing from inside is posible.
                                         
                                        Odd that yellow glue could be stronger then white glue. I figured the color was a dye they use so you know where you put the glue.
                                         
                                        Steamengine 4449

                                        Kjb80401@... wrote:
                                        I agree that the Ambroid glue is not desirable.  I've had joints let loose after a number of years.
                                         
                                        I use Elmers or Titebond yellow glue as it has a faster 'tack time' and therefor works quicker.  For what little it's worth, yellow glue is also stronger.
                                         
                                        Keevan

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                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 431 From: Kjb80401@aol.com Date: 2/28/2005
                                        Subject: Re: glues was Ambroid Kit
                                        In a message dated 2/28/2005 2:23:39 PM Mountain Standard Time, steamengine4449us@... writes:
                                        Odd that yellow glue could be stronger then white glue. I figured the color was a dye they use so you know where you put the glue.
                                        The yellow glue is a different formulation.  No thoughts about the color itself.  I believe Titebond was the first of its kind on the market.  I personally prefer Titebond, just like the way it handles I guess.
                                         
                                        Keevan
                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 432 From: Don Riley Date: 2/28/2005
                                        Subject: Re: glues
                                        How does it dry?
                                        Does it leave a yellow color?
                                        Also does it remove paint?
                                         
                                        Oh yes the joys of dealing with glue! Is Titebong less stringy? Glues seem to want to leave a string as you pull the glue away from the project. This is an annoying problem.
                                         
                                        I also use a Testors plastic cement pen. This gets alway from the stringyness but it does not seem to be a strong as the Ambroid glue for larger things. But works great for little stuff.
                                         
                                        Steamengine 4449

                                        Kjb80401@... wrote:
                                        The yellow glue is a different formulation.  No thoughts about the color itself.  I believe Titebond was the first of its kind on the market.  I personally prefer Titebond, just like the way it handles I guess.
                                         
                                        Keevan


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                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 433 From: Bill Daley Date: 2/28/2005
                                        Subject: Re: glues was Ambroid Kit


                                        Let me weigh in on the Ambroid glue subject. Aeons ago, I used it...even metal to metal. (Ignorance was bliss, and ACC was still in the test lab.)

                                        Coupla a moons ago, got a wood "craftsman" reefer kit, and naturally I bought me some Ambroid. Same familiar smell, but didn't hold worth a ******.  Local hobby shop owner touted a Testor's glue --in a green tube-- and it worked like the Ambroid I remembered. Mayhap I just got a bad tube from Ambroid. But it isn't on my buy another list.

                                        BillD

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                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 434 From: Kjb80401@aol.com Date: 2/28/2005
                                        Subject: Re: glues
                                        In a message dated 2/28/2005 2:49:45 PM Mountain Standard Time, steamengine4449us@... writes:
                                        How does it dry?
                                        Does it leave a yellow color?
                                        Also does it remove paint?
                                         
                                        Oh yes the joys of dealing with glue! Is Titebong less stringy? Glues seem to want to leave a string as you pull the glue away from the project. This is an annoying problem.
                                         
                                        I also use a Testors plastic cement pen. This gets alway from the stringyness but it does not seem to be a strong as the Ambroid glue for larger things. But works great for little stuff.
                                        It air dries and does leave a light yellow color.  Never tried to remove paint with it but I doubt that it would, at least in a chemical sense.
                                         
                                        Yellow and white glues are intended for porous materials such as wood or paper.  Do not use it on non-porous materials, it won't work.  These glues are not 'stringy' such as Walthers' Goo and Pliobond glues are.
                                         
                                        Testors plastic cement pen?  The tool sounds interesting but I wouldn't use plastic cement for wood models.
                                         
                                        I have many different kinds of adhesives, each has a designed / intended use for specific applications and materials.
                                         
                                        Keevan
                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 435 From: Don Riley Date: 2/28/2005
                                        Subject: Re: glues
                                        I did not remove paint with glue on purpose either! I discovered it could remove paint when I used it to glue something and then tryed to remove a little glue that was left on the model. I got the glue off and the paint went with it! Seems to me it was the Testors that did that. Testors drys white. Too bad they can not come up with a glue that drys clear! I have only done plastic modeling so far. Also metal to plastic for weights.
                                         
                                        Indeed the pen is very useful! I have used it lots for plastic to plastic or plastic to metal glueing. it does not string so it is prefered for small things. 
                                         
                                        Steamengine 4449

                                        Kjb80401@... wrote:
                                        It air dries and does leave a light yellow color.  Never tried to remove paint with it but I doubt that it would, at least in a chemical sense.
                                         
                                        Yellow and white glues are intended for porous materials such as wood or paper.  Do not use it on non-porous materials, it won't work.  These glues are not 'stringy' such as Walthers' Goo and Pliobond glues are.
                                         
                                        Testors plastic cement pen?  The tool sounds interesting but I wouldn't use plastic cement for wood models.
                                         
                                        I have many different kinds of adhesives, each has a designed / intended use for specific applications and materials.
                                         
                                        Keevan


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                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 436 From: Kjb80401@aol.com Date: 2/28/2005
                                        Subject: Re: glues
                                        In a message dated 2/28/2005 3:54:22 PM Mountain Standard Time, steamengine4449us@... writes:
                                        Seems to me it was the Testors that did that. Testors drys white. Too bad they can not come up with a glue that drys clear! I have only done plastic modeling so far. Also metal to plastic for weights.
                                         
                                        Indeed the pen is very useful! I have used it lots for plastic to plastic or plastic to metal glueing. it does not string so it is prefered for small things. 
                                        Testors would have a solvent in it and therefor would affect paint in a negative way.
                                         
                                        I do a lot of plastic model building.  I use only solvent cement for joining pieces.  The one I use is solvent with no 'body' in it.  It has a thinner viscosity than water.  When applying it to seams I use a GLASS hypodermic syringe with a no. 27 needle (the finest diameter I've found so far).  Be careful and develop your own technique for using the syringe, if you just grasp the body of it, a drop will come out from the heat of your fingers expanding the liquid.  If you push the plunger, more will come out faster, sometimes as a stream (which you don't want).  So,,,,,practice makes perfect.  Glass syringes are more expensive than plastic ones, but I've had mine now for 35 years.  That makes it relatively inexpensive.  Plastic syringes will melt from the solvent.
                                         
                                        The product that I and some professional modelers use is a product known as "IPS Weld-On 3".  It's available at Plastic Sign Shops, full-line hardware stores, and I saw it once at Home Depot.  Unless mistaken, I saw it at Caboose Hobbies in Denver recently.
                                         
                                        Testors liquid solvent cement available at hobby shops has 'body' to it, meaning it's thicker than just solvent.  This and like products will clog up syringe needles and the plunger will freeze in the barrel so be cautious about using it that way.
                                         
                                        Another technique for applying solvent cement is to use a small pointed brush, dip the brush in the solvent, and just touch its tip to the joint to receive the cement.  It will wick up and down the joint.
                                         
                                        Plastic models are nice to work with, enjoy. 
                                         
                                        Keevan
                                         
                                         
                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 437 From: STOCKCREEK@aol.com Date: 2/28/2005
                                        Subject: Re: Ambroid Kit
                                        Don,
                                         
                                        Thanks for the info. I built a Ambroid 1/5000 Southern Tobacco Hogshead car around 1965 or 1966. I could not remember what I glue I used. I believe I still have the car.
                                         
                                        Bob Blackwelder
                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 438 From: STOCKCREEK@aol.com Date: 2/28/2005
                                        Subject: Re: Ambroid Kit
                                        Keevan,
                                         
                                        Thanks for the info!
                                         
                                        Bob Blackwelder
                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 439 From: Ray Hobin Date: 3/1/2005
                                        Subject: Glue: Was [vintageHO] Ambroid Kit
                                        >Thanks for the info. I built a Ambroid 1/5000 Southern Tobacco Hogshead car
                                        >around 1965 or 1966. I could not remember what I glue I used. I believe I
                                        >still have the car.

                                        Since this thread has been discussing glues used "years ago". Does any
                                        one remember the glue that came with the old Strombecker model kits?
                                        Most were airplanes but I believe some railroad items were made.

                                        Anyway, those kits included a glue you had to mix with water and let
                                        "sit" for a while before using. I recall it being a dark tan color.

                                        My memory says it was a pretty strong glue but took quite a while to
                                        dry.


                                        Ray Hobin
                                        NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX
                                        Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 440 From: Kjb80401@aol.com Date: 3/1/2005
                                        Subject: Re: Glue: Was [vintageHO] Ambroid Kit
                                        In a message dated 3/1/2005 6:48:40 AM Mountain Standard Time, tcol01@... writes:
                                        Does any
                                        one remember the glue that came with the old Strombecker model kits?
                                        Most were airplanes but I believe some railroad items were made.

                                        Anyway, those kits included a glue you had to mix with water and let
                                        "sit" for a while before using. I recall it being a dark tan color.

                                        My memory says it was a pretty strong glue but took quite a while to
                                        dry.
                                         
                                        Sure do, and have a scar to prove it.  In the fifties I built one of their model ships, a destroyer, the USS Buckley.  (still have it)  Decided later on to superdetail it and needed to remove the superstructure as the point of beginning.  Took my Xacto knife with a chisel blade to pry/skin off the pieces.  I pushed harder and harder until it finally let go and the knife blade went into my other hand holding the ship.  Deep it went, still have the scar.
                                         
                                        The glue is known as casein (sp?) glue, and 'horsehide glue'.  Had been used for many years putting furniture together.
                                         
                                        Getting back to railroads, one of the early on kits I built was an HO scale Rock Island Rocket train.  What was probably an E6 engine and two or three cars.  Wish I still had it, it's a real rarity these days.
                                         
                                        Keevan
                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 441 From: erieberk Date: 3/1/2005
                                        Subject: Re: Glue: Was [vintageHO] Ambroid Kit
                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Ray Hobin <tcol01@e...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Since this thread has been discussing glues used "years ago". Does
                                        any
                                        > one remember the glue that came with the old Strombecker model kits?
                                        > Most were airplanes but I believe some railroad items were made.
                                        >
                                        > Anyway, those kits included a glue you had to mix with water and let
                                        > "sit" for a while before using. I recall it being a dark tan color.
                                        >
                                        > My memory says it was a pretty strong glue but took quite a while to
                                        > dry.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Ray Hobin
                                        > NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX
                                        > Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >Ray, Your mention of StromBecker model kits brings back lots of
                                        memories. I use to build these when I was growing up. Yes, that was
                                        very strong glue; you could probably have used it to build
                                        furniture! As I vaguely recall, I believe you had to let it sit
                                        overnight (or at least many hours) for it to dry completely -- it
                                        being water based. But then, it was made specifically for solid
                                        wooden models. I recall StromBecker making several models of early
                                        (19th Century) engines, with and without coaches, which I think
                                        included the Tom Thumb, the Best Friend of Charleston, the De Witt
                                        Clinton and also I think a 4-4-0 American. There was a more "modern"
                                        Mikado freight engine and a series of cardboard side freight cars
                                        (reefers, tanker, etc.) in different schemes. I think these freight
                                        car kits were something like 29 cents. Their most elite offerings
                                        were of several streamlined diesel passenger train kits/sets of the
                                        period, like the Rock Island Rocket and the Union Pacific City of
                                        LA. All models were for static display, although you could exchange
                                        the wooden trucks/wheels on the HO freight cars for Varney trucks.
                                        The name trains could be powered (don't recall what was used). Ray
                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 442 From: Al Date: 3/1/2005
                                        Subject: Re: Digest Number 124
                                        > I recently obtained an Ambroid 1/5000 work/ caboose combine which I
                                        > have treasured for years. What modern adhesives do I use in
                                        > constructing this kit?
                                        >
                                        > Thanks.
                                        >
                                        > Bob Blackwelder

                                        ( gasp- lurker speaks)

                                        well, I'm going ot have to disagree here as well ( hmm. maybe not the best
                                        way to start posting, lol ) .

                                        What I am using on the Ambroid Poultry car I bought half built and am
                                        finishing up, as well as on a Laconia car I just picked up . is good old CA
                                        (cyanoacrylate, where'd the 'ACC' railroaders like to use come from anyways
                                        ? )

                                        you did mention modern adhesives, so that works for me, just as strong as
                                        the titebond mentioned,and will hold the detail parts,etc.

                                        ~ Sailor AL
                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 443 From: Kjb80401@aol.com Date: 3/1/2005
                                        Subject: Re: Digest Number 124
                                        In a message dated 3/1/2005 11:10:27 AM Mountain Standard Time, Sailordoode@... writes:
                                        (cyanoacrylate, where'd the 'ACC' railroaders like to use come from anyways
                                        ? )
                                         
                                        It began life as Kodak 910 I believe, back in the sixties.  I heard that it was originally used as a form of liquid bandage in medical uses to close wounds and surgical slices.  (Ever notice how fingers get glued together with it?)
                                         
                                        ACC = Alpha CyanoAcrylate
                                         
                                        I got all this info second-hand, maybe someone out there has first-hand knowledge.
                                         
                                        P.S.; I have used ACC to construct a wooden Campbell kit, worked great, and FAST.
                                         
                                        Keevan
                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 444 From: photobysam@yahoo.com Date: 3/1/2005
                                        Subject: Re: glues
                                        Having been a model tech and woodworker for many years, I think I
                                        must have every kind of glue made but what I use most is Titebond,
                                        for models and furniture, and also the new super glue in gel form
                                        works well for wood and especially for bonding metal/wood/resin. The
                                        old powdered horsehide glue Strombecker put in their kits was
                                        furniture glue, just put into smaller packets. Never liked the
                                        Ambroid, smell or color.
                                        There are some craft glues that work well also, I saw a new one the
                                        other day that said it has a quick drying time, they are sold under
                                        the name Aileen Craft glue, I think. The Aileen brand has been around
                                        for some time now and has a good rep with the craft people and is
                                        available at craft store and craft departments in the larger stores.
                                        Sam


                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Kjb80401@a... wrote:
                                        >
                                        > In a message dated 2/28/2005 2:49:45 PM Mountain Standard Time,
                                        > steamengine4449us@y... writes:
                                        >
                                        > How does it dry?
                                        > Does it leave a yellow color?
                                        > Also does it remove paint?
                                        >
                                        > Oh yes the joys of dealing with glue! Is Titebong less stringy?
                                        Glues seem
                                        > to want to leave a string as you pull the glue away from the
                                        project. This is
                                        > an annoying problem.
                                        >
                                        > I also use a Testors plastic cement pen. This gets alway from the
                                        > stringyness but it does not seem to be a strong as the Ambroid glue
                                        for larger things.
                                        > But works great for little stuff.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > It air dries and does leave a light yellow color. Never tried to
                                        remove
                                        > paint with it but I doubt that it would, at least in a chemical
                                        sense.
                                        >
                                        > Yellow and white glues are intended for porous materials such as
                                        wood or
                                        > paper. Do not use it on non-porous materials, it won't work.
                                        These glues are
                                        > not 'stringy' such as Walthers' Goo and Pliobond glues are.
                                        >
                                        > Testors plastic cement pen? The tool sounds interesting but I
                                        wouldn't use
                                        > plastic cement for wood models.
                                        >
                                        > I have many different kinds of adhesives, each has a designed /
                                        intended use
                                        > for specific applications and materials.
                                        >
                                        > Keevan
                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 445 From: photobysam@yahoo.com Date: 3/1/2005
                                        Subject: GM&O Doodle Bug
                                        I want to thank everyone for their help on this, I now know it was in
                                        the April 1959 MR but don't know if they had any plans or drawings,
                                        will call tomorrow and find out and if so will order a reprint of the
                                        article. I had contacted the GM&O HS before but never got a response
                                        back. This has been an off and on project since Walthers made the kit
                                        many years ago. It has looked good since built but now I would like
                                        to detail it out with full interior.
                                        Thanks All,
                                        Sam
                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 446 From: Al Date: 3/2/2005
                                        Subject: glues/ ACC
                                        (cyanoacrylate, where'd the 'ACC' railroaders like to use come from anyways
                                        ? )



                                        It began life as Kodak 910 I believe, back in the sixties. I heard that it
                                        was originally used as a form of liquid bandage in medical uses to close
                                        wounds and surgical slices. (Ever notice how fingers get glued together
                                        with it?)

                                        ACC = Alpha CyanoAcrylate

                                        I got all this info second-hand, maybe someone out there has first-hand
                                        knowledge.

                                        P.S.; I have used ACC to construct a wooden Campbell kit, worked great, and
                                        FAST.

                                        Keevan

                                        ..

                                        yeah, I have read someplace that the CA was developed (?during the Korean
                                        war ),as a 'quick-bandage',and was literally designed to bind skin .

                                        no wonder it glues us to our models so well, lol .

                                        I've never heard that about the " alpha" ca, though, interesting, always
                                        wondered about that ACC thing back in the 70's when I was on my 'first
                                        railorading period' .. as other model mags always just called it CA or
                                        cyanoacrylate.
                                        been in the plastics field for years now and still never heard the Alpha
                                        thing, will have to ask around to the old timers at the shop, lol .

                                        ~ Sailor AL

                                        ps - since I'm writing and out of my lurker mode, ... does anyone have any
                                        good suggestions for stripping paint off old loco kits ( specifically a
                                        couple Bowser,and a roundhouse boiler, all diecast ) ?
                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 447 From: Kjb80401@aol.com Date: 3/2/2005
                                        Subject: Re: glues/ ACC
                                        In a message dated 3/2/2005 8:47:22 AM Mountain Standard Time, Sailordoode@... writes:
                                        ... does anyone have any
                                        good suggestions for stripping paint off old loco kits ( specifically a
                                        couple Bowser,and a roundhouse boiler, all diecast ) ?
                                         
                                        For metal models only!      I've used good old cheap brake fluid with good success and no damage.
                                         
                                        I've also used paint stripper with less-than-satisfactory result in getting the paint completely off without a lot of fiddling with it.  That being scraping and picking at built up paint areas.
                                         
                                        Keevan
                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 448 From: Ray Hobin Date: 3/2/2005
                                        Subject: Re: glues/ ACC
                                        On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 11:00:58 EST, you wrote:

                                        >
                                        >In a message dated 3/2/2005 8:47:22 AM Mountain Standard Time,
                                        >Sailordoode@... writes:
                                        >
                                        >... does anyone have any
                                        >good suggestions for stripping paint off old loco kits ( specifically a
                                        >couple Bowser,and a roundhouse boiler, all diecast ) ?
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >For metal models only! I've used good old cheap brake fluid with good
                                        >success and no damage.
                                        >
                                        >I've also used paint stripper with less-than-satisfactory result in getting
                                        >the paint completely off without a lot of fiddling with it. That being
                                        >scraping and picking at built up paint areas.


                                        Be careful using commercial paint strippers..many of them are caustic
                                        and may re-act with the casting metal similar to lye. Lye is an
                                        effective paint stripper of many plastics, real tinplate and brass but
                                        not zamac which can be "attacked" by the lye.

                                        On older zamac-like castings, I have found plain old lacquer thinner
                                        will often do the job. Just use the lowest priced lacquer thinner
                                        available.


                                        Ray Hobin
                                        NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX
                                        Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 449 From: Gerry D Date: 3/2/2005
                                        Subject: Re: GM&O Doodle Bug
                                        Good luck, when, not if, you get it done, please let
                                        us see some pix!

                                        Cordially,
                                        Gerry
                                        --- photobysam@... wrote:

                                        >
                                        > I want to thank everyone for their help on this, I
                                        > now know it was in
                                        > the April 1959 MR but don't know if they had any
                                        > plans or drawings,
                                        > will call tomorrow and find out and if so will order
                                        > a reprint of the
                                        > article. I had contacted the GM&O HS before but
                                        > never got a response
                                        > back. This has been an off and on project since
                                        > Walthers made the kit
                                        > many years ago. It has looked good since built but
                                        > now I would like
                                        > to detail it out with full interior.
                                        > Thanks All,
                                        > Sam
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >





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                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 450 From: photobysam@yahoo.com Date: 3/2/2005
                                        Subject: MR April 1959 Wanted
                                        Looking for the Model Railroader April 1959 issue as it has the
                                        drawings for the GM&O motor car and trailer. Kalmbach wants as much
                                        for a reprint of 2 pages as the whole issue will probably cost so
                                        might as well the mag and have both articles plus.
                                        Thanks,
                                        Sam
                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 451 From: Jack Priller Date: 3/2/2005
                                        Subject: Re: MR April 1959 Wanted
                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, photobysam@y... wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Looking for the Model Railroader April 1959 issue as it has the
                                        > drawings for the GM&O motor car and trailer. Kalmbach wants as
                                        much
                                        > for a reprint of 2 pages as the whole issue will probably cost so
                                        > might as well the mag and have both articles plus.
                                        > Thanks,
                                        > Sam

                                        Check e-Bay auction 5960899375 :>))

                                        Y.O.T.
                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 452 From: photobysam@yahoo.com Date: 3/2/2005
                                        Subject: Re: MR April 1959 Wanted
                                        Thanks Jack, I had checked earlier and it wasn't there. Good timing I
                                        guess.
                                        Sam

                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Priller" <westpac67@s...>
                                        wrote:
                                        >
                                        > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, photobysam@y... wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > Looking for the Model Railroader April 1959 issue as it has the
                                        > > drawings for the GM&O motor car and trailer. Kalmbach wants as
                                        > much
                                        > > for a reprint of 2 pages as the whole issue will probably cost so
                                        > > might as well the mag and have both articles plus.
                                        > > Thanks,
                                        > > Sam
                                        >
                                        > Check e-Bay auction 5960899375 :>))
                                        >
                                        > Y.O.T.
                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 453 From: Gerry D Date: 3/3/2005
                                        Subject: Re: MR April 1959 Wanted
                                        In those days, what one magazine printed was
                                        complimented or challenged by the other. I think they
                                        were looking for one-upsmanship.

                                        So, as an alternative, I found the floor plan for the
                                        first gas electric rail car built by Electro-Motive
                                        Co. in 1924.

                                        This was published as a center spread in Model
                                        Railroad Craftsman November 1959.

                                        I'll take it to work tomorrow and scan it on the 12x24
                                        (i think that's the size) scanner just in case you
                                        want it.

                                        Gerry
                                        --- photobysam@... wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Looking for the Model Railroader April 1959 issue as
                                        > it has the
                                        > drawings for the GM&O motor car and trailer.
                                        > Kalmbach wants as much
                                        > for a reprint of 2 pages as the whole issue will
                                        > probably cost so
                                        > might as well the mag and have both articles plus.
                                        > Thanks,
                                        > Sam
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >




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                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 454 From: photobysam@yahoo.com Date: 3/3/2005
                                        Subject: Re: MR April 1959 Wanted
                                        Gerry,
                                        It sounds interesting, but who got the first one? RMC was always big
                                        on passenger equipment back then.
                                        I have always liked the streamliners. I was in an accident in
                                        Joplin, MO and was transported a week later to a hospital in KC, MO
                                        and I have always remembered the Flying Crow (I think that was the
                                        train) stopping right where the ambulance was sitting and they loaded
                                        me into a car specially setup for me to be laying down and then when
                                        it stopped in KC it stopped right where the ambulance was and took me
                                        straight out and into the ambulance. It was very impressive to a 6 yr
                                        old boy that the engineer could stop it so precise to have the train
                                        car door and back of the ambulance line up, in two different cities.
                                        Sam



                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Gerry D <gerard_sr@y...> wrote:
                                        > In those days, what one magazine printed was
                                        > complimented or challenged by the other. I think they
                                        > were looking for one-upsmanship.
                                        >
                                        > So, as an alternative, I found the floor plan for the
                                        > first gas electric rail car built by Electro-Motive
                                        > Co. in 1924.
                                        >
                                        > This was published as a center spread in Model
                                        > Railroad Craftsman November 1959.
                                        >
                                        > I'll take it to work tomorrow and scan it on the 12x24
                                        > (i think that's the size) scanner just in case you
                                        > want it.
                                        >
                                        > Gerry
                                        > --- photobysam@y... wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > Looking for the Model Railroader April 1959 issue as
                                        > > it has the
                                        > > drawings for the GM&O motor car and trailer.
                                        > > Kalmbach wants as much
                                        > > for a reprint of 2 pages as the whole issue will
                                        > > probably cost so
                                        > > might as well the mag and have both articles plus.
                                        > > Thanks,
                                        > > Sam
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > __________________________________
                                        > Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
                                        > Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
                                        > http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 455 From: sprinthag@yahoo.com Date: 3/4/2005
                                        Subject: Re: MR April 1959 Wanted
                                        Sam;

                                        I am moving (down sizing) and have a huge number of MR and other
                                        magazines I have to get rid of. Almost all MR's from 1950 on are
                                        going to be sold or ? I know I have this issue somewhere in
                                        the "delete" boxes. Give me a couple of days and I will be glad to
                                        let you have it for a buck and postage, which, sent Media Mail,
                                        should be 1 to 2 dollars.

                                        If other members are looking for magazines. let me know. Prices are
                                        $1.00 for 50's, $0.75 for 60's through 70's, $0.50 for 80's & 90's
                                        and two bits for 21st century stuff. Many old Trains (I'm keeping
                                        steam era) and various other model railroading mags for $0.25 - $0.50
                                        also. Dare I mention auto mags (including Mopar stuff)? prices will
                                        go down for multiple issue purchases. Just remeber yo must pay
                                        postage or pick them up. Like the one on ebay, I live in Milwaukee.
                                        Don, the group moderator knows me.

                                        John
                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 456 From: Jack Priller Date: 3/4/2005
                                        Subject: Re: MR April 1959 Wanted
                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Gerry D <gerard_sr@y...> wrote:
                                        > In those days, what one magazine printed was
                                        > complimented or challenged by the other. I think they
                                        > were looking for one-upsmanship.
                                        >
                                        > So, as an alternative, I found the floor plan for the
                                        > first gas electric rail car built by Electro-Motive
                                        > Co. in 1924.
                                        >
                                        > This was published as a center spread in Model
                                        > Railroad Craftsman November 1959.
                                        >
                                        > I'll take it to work tomorrow and scan it on the 12x24
                                        > (i think that's the size) scanner just in case you
                                        > want it.
                                        >
                                        > Gerry
                                        If no one else is interested, I am. I model circa 1930, so that
                                        would be a perfect fit.
                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 457 From: Gerry D Date: 3/4/2005
                                        Subject: Re: MR April 1959 Wanted
                                        My advice would be for him to buy the entire year off
                                        you John, if you have it. There may be an addendum or
                                        correction to the original article.

                                        I'm also thinking I'd be interested! Let me review
                                        what I have.

                                        Cordially,
                                        Gerry
                                        http://kitbash.ourpage.org


                                        --- sprinthag@... wrote:
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Sam;
                                        >
                                        > I am moving (down sizing) and have a huge number of
                                        > MR and other
                                        > magazines I have to get rid of. Almost all MR's from
                                        > 1950 on are
                                        > going to be sold or ? I know I have this issue
                                        > somewhere in
                                        > the "delete" boxes. Give me a couple of days and I
                                        > will be glad to
                                        > let you have it for a buck and postage, which, sent
                                        > Media Mail,
                                        > should be 1 to 2 dollars.
                                        >
                                        > If other members are looking for magazines. let me
                                        > know. Prices are
                                        > $1.00 for 50's, $0.75 for 60's through 70's, $0.50
                                        > for 80's & 90's
                                        > and two bits for 21st century stuff. Many old Trains
                                        > (I'm keeping
                                        > steam era) and various other model railroading mags
                                        > for $0.25 - $0.50
                                        > also. Dare I mention auto mags (including Mopar
                                        > stuff)? prices will
                                        > go down for multiple issue purchases. Just remeber
                                        > yo must pay
                                        > postage or pick them up. Like the one on ebay, I
                                        > live in Milwaukee.
                                        > Don, the group moderator knows me.
                                        >
                                        > John
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >




                                        __________________________________
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                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 458 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/5/2005
                                        Subject: Re: MR April 1959 Wanted
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: <sprinthag@...>
                                        To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 6:13 AM
                                        Subject: [vintageHO] Re: MR April 1959 Wanted


                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Sam;
                                        >
                                        > I am moving (down sizing) and have a huge number of MR and other
                                        > magazines I have to get rid of. Almost all MR's from 1950 on are
                                        > going to be sold or ? I know I have this issue somewhere in
                                        > the "delete" boxes. Give me a couple of days and I will be glad to
                                        > let you have it for a buck and postage, which, sent Media Mail,
                                        > should be 1 to 2 dollars.
                                        >
                                        > If other members are looking for magazines. let me know. Prices are
                                        > $1.00 for 50's, $0.75 for 60's through 70's, $0.50 for 80's & 90's
                                        > and two bits for 21st century stuff. Many old Trains (I'm keeping
                                        > steam era) and various other model railroading mags for $0.25 - $0.50
                                        > also. Dare I mention auto mags (including Mopar stuff)? prices will
                                        > go down for multiple issue purchases. Just remeber yo must pay
                                        > postage or pick them up. Like the one on ebay, I live in Milwaukee.
                                        > Don, the group moderator knows me.
                                        >
                                        > John

                                        Hey stranger! When did YOU sneak in here <G>

                                        Seriously guys, John's a good guy, another veteran of the old "Beer City
                                        Lines"

                                        Don

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                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 459 From: James B Date: 3/12/2005
                                        Subject: Model Train Show March 13th Cedarburg, WI corrected release
                                        Sorry I flubbed on this press release the date of the show is MARCH
                                        13th not the 21st.

                                        We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

                                        For the tenth consecutive year, the METRO Model Railroad Club of
                                        Port Washington is

                                        hosting its annual railroad show and swap meet. The event is scheduled
                                        for Sunday, March

                                        13st at Circle B Recreation on Highway 60 in Cedarburg. In addition to
                                        all the model

                                        railroads displayed, this year will feature train rides for the kids
                                        compliments of Dave Gehrke

                                        and the West Bend, Jackson & Southern Railroad (weather permitting).
                                        Children will have

                                        the excitement of a free ride on some unique railroad equipment scaled
                                        at 1 and ½ inches to

                                        the foot.
                                        Six model railroad clubs will show layouts in all scales
                                        ranging from N gauge to #1

                                        gauge at this year's show. The Cedar Creek Central of Jackson will
                                        show its progress on a

                                        large HO layout with many Midwestern scenes. West Bend's Kettle
                                        Moraine Ballast

                                        Scorchers will bring their remarkable modular N scale layout, noted
                                        for its long trains and the

                                        scenic depiction of the infamous Weyauwega derailment. The Badgerland
                                        S Gaugers will

                                        show the classic American Flyer scale trains as well as new S-scale
                                        trains that are currently

                                        available. The West Bend, Jackson and Southern will bring many
                                        examples of G scale

                                        equipment that is most frequently used to create outdoor garden
                                        railroads, and will also

                                        display some #1 scale trains.
                                        The Grandkids Railroad will be on hand with its dazzling
                                        display of lights and sounds.

                                        And of course METRO will be again showing its HO layout featuring
                                        highly detailed scenes

                                        and animations, which has delighted audiences for more than 20 years,
                                        and which has twice

                                        won the blue ribbon at the National Train Show.
                                        In addition, more than 50 tables of dealers and swappers will
                                        be on hand to buy, sell and

                                        trade model railroad equipment, both new and used. Some notable
                                        dealers are Don Manlick

                                        of DM Custom Decals who will be selling his GB&W and other decals, NEW
                                        Hobbies of

                                        Green Bay, Cannonball Models of Madison that specializes in N scale,
                                        Paint Plus Trains of

                                        Prairie Du Sac, Mullet River & Southern Hobbies, Setco Trains, The Toy
                                        Train Depot with a

                                        huge selection of railroad video's, Bill Priepke of Scale Rail
                                        Graphics with his GB&W, WC,

                                        WSOR and other decals and bright white led's, as well as many other
                                        dealers. The many

                                        club members and dealers on hand will be able to help modelers young
                                        and old with layout

                                        design, problem solving, and scenic hints.
                                        Attendees can sign up for door prizes which include railroading
                                        books, train sets and

                                        one year subscriptions to Kalmbach Publishing's magazine Model
                                        Railroader.
                                        This is the 10th consecutive year for the show, which has
                                        become the largest in

                                        southeast Wisconsin after TRAINFEST. The METRO Club is based in Port
                                        Washington and

                                        is in the process of creating a large HO layout in the basement of the
                                        Harbor Village.

                                        Membership in all of the clubs showing is open; attendees can talk to
                                        club members at the

                                        show for membership details. METRO can also be found on the web at
                                        www.metrorrclub.org
                                        Show hours are 10 a.m. to 4 p.m. Admission is by a $2 donation
                                        for adults; as always,

                                        children under 12 are admitted free when accompanied by an adult.
                                        Commercial sponsors

                                        of this year's show include Ohana Ambulance, Kalmbach Publishing,
                                        Tires Unlimited

                                        Automotive Services, and Harbor Club & Village of Port Washington.

                                        James Bartelt
                                        Secretary/Show Chairman
                                        METRO Model Railroad Club, Ltd.
                                        jimbartelt@...
                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 460 From: steamengine4449us Date: 3/14/2005
                                        Subject: who invented that truck?
                                        I got a Varney passenger car in the mail resently. I*t is a full dome
                                        in SP suset colors silver with red letterboard. This paintscheme
                                        because standard in 1958. But was used on silver streamliners before
                                        that. Anyway it has Athearn metal streamlined passenger car trucks!
                                        And yes the included instructions specify that truck. So I ask who
                                        invented that truck and who all used them and for how long?

                                        Steamengine 4449
                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 461 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/15/2005
                                        Subject: Re: who invented that truck?
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: steamengine4449us <steamengine4449us@...>
                                        To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 5:20 PM
                                        Subject: [vintageHO] who invented that truck?


                                        >
                                        > I got a Varney passenger car in the mail resently. I*t is a full dome
                                        > in SP suset colors silver with red letterboard. This paintscheme
                                        > because standard in 1958. But was used on silver streamliners before
                                        > that. Anyway it has Athearn metal streamlined passenger car trucks!
                                        > And yes the included instructions specify that truck. So I ask who
                                        > invented that truck and who all used them and for how long?
                                        >
                                        > Steamengine 4449

                                        FWIW, that car is an early 60's reissue of an original Penn-Line car. When
                                        Penn-Line fell victim to the Slot Car craze ca. 1961 or so, Varney took over
                                        much of the line. (The steam locomotives went to Bowser, then when Varney in
                                        turn went under, THEIR product was split between Bowser and Life Like)

                                        I know there was some sort of arrangement between Penn Line and Athearn that
                                        Athearn supplied parts for some Penn Line equipment (most notably F-7 and GP
                                        shells.)

                                        Don

                                        don.dellmann@...
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                                        Don
                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 462 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/18/2005
                                        Subject: Newest aquisitions and an offer
                                        Attachments :
                                          Got a box of HObbylines on eBay this week. Got three cleaned up with
                                          kadees, I've added them to the HObbyline sub album in my album on the group
                                          home page, and have one more to do (an L&N flat car). These are the older
                                          ones with the molded in color body and factory paint.

                                          I did get a Caboose that I don't really have a use for (The Milwaukee
                                          Northern "Standard" caboose is the Varney C-3 bay window), that is looking
                                          for a home.

                                          Anybody care to make an offer, or what have you to trade? There's more
                                          pictures in the "Temporary" album. The box is pretty ratty but the car is
                                          good (with "interesting" couplers <G>)

                                          Don

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                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 463 From: Roger Aultman Date: 3/18/2005
                                          Subject: Combo passenger car
                                          Attachments :
                                            I recently purchased the attached passenger car from a friend. It has a
                                            sort of card/foil sides, I first thought it was JC Silver Sides N&W 62'
                                            foot combo but the window spacing is different. I have a Bathgate kit,
                                            with card sides, but the rivets on it are not as defined as this car,
                                            also a Paul Moore passenger car but it has plain cardboaard sides no
                                            rivets. I imagine there were other manufacturers making similar cars.
                                            Any ideas who the manufacturer was? Roger Aultman
                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 464 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/18/2005
                                            Subject: Re: Newest aquisitions and an offer
                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...>
                                            To: Vintage HO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                            Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 8:34 AM
                                            Subject: [vintageHO] Newest aquisitions and an offer


                                            > Got a box of HObbylines on eBay this week. Got three cleaned up with
                                            > kadees, I've added them to the HObbyline sub album in my album on the
                                            group
                                            > home page, and have one more to do (an L&N flat car). These are the older
                                            > ones with the molded in color body and factory paint.
                                            >
                                            > I did get a Caboose that I don't really have a use for (The Milwaukee
                                            > Northern "Standard" caboose is the Varney C-3 bay window), that is looking
                                            > for a home.
                                            >
                                            > Anybody care to make an offer, or what have you to trade? There's more
                                            > pictures in the "Temporary" album. The box is pretty ratty but the car is
                                            > good (with "interesting" couplers <G>)
                                            >
                                            > Don

                                            Since I wrote that I got trucks and couplers on the flat car, added it to
                                            the HObbyline
                                            album.

                                            Also, I think I've made a deal for the caboose.

                                            Don

                                            don.dellmann@...
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                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 465 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/18/2005
                                            Subject: Re: Combo passenger car
                                            Attachments :
                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: Roger Aultman <raul@...>
                                              To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                              Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 3:54 PM
                                              Subject: [vintageHO] Combo passenger car


                                              > I recently purchased the attached passenger car from a friend. It has a
                                              > sort of card/foil sides, I first thought it was JC Silver Sides N&W 62'
                                              > foot combo but the window spacing is different. I have a Bathgate kit,
                                              > with card sides, but the rivets on it are not as defined as this car,
                                              > also a Paul Moore passenger car but it has plain cardboaard sides no
                                              > rivets. I imagine there were other manufacturers making similar cars.
                                              > Any ideas who the manufacturer was? Roger Aultman
                                              >

                                              The window arrangement matches the Varney car (1949 catalog scan attached).

                                              I've never seen one with foil sides though, I have a couple of the matching
                                              coaches and they're strictly card. (And they did once have decent rivet
                                              detail, but it's hard to see under too many coats of paint).

                                              Don

                                              don.dellmann@...
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                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 466 From: Roger Aultman Date: 3/18/2005
                                              Subject: Re: Combo passenger car
                                              That is the one, I guess I was mistaken about the foil, the only Varney
                                              passsenger cars Ive had are the later tin stream lined shorty passengers.
                                              Roger


                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >>I recently purchased the attached passenger car from a friend. It has a
                                              >>sort of card/foil sides, I first thought it was JC Silver Sides N&W 62'
                                              >>foot combo but the window spacing is different. I have a Bathgate kit,
                                              >> with card sides, but the rivets on it are not as defined as this car,
                                              >>also a Paul Moore passenger car but it has plain cardboaard sides no
                                              >>rivets. I imagine there were other manufacturers making similar cars.
                                              >>Any ideas who the manufacturer was? Roger Aultman
                                              >>
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > The window arrangement matches the Varney car (1949 catalog scan attached).
                                              >
                                              > I've never seen one with foil sides though, I have a couple of the matching
                                              > coaches and they're strictly card. (And they did once have decent rivet
                                              > detail, but it's hard to see under too many coats of paint).
                                              >
                                              > Don
                                              >

                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                              >
                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 467 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/20/2005
                                              Subject: Basket Case
                                              Attachments :
                                                A freind gave me a "basket case" Athearn metal last night.

                                                Anybody care to wager on the odds it's salvagable?

                                                Stay tuned.

                                                Don

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                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 468 From: Dave Slater Date: 3/20/2005
                                                Subject: Re: Basket Case
                                                Don D.,
                                                I've seen "Basket Cases" and then I have seen "BASKET CASES!!!!!!!!) the later came with the following memo,   "Dearly beloved we are gathered here".. LOL
                                                Dave S.

                                                Don Dellmann wrote:

                                                 A freind gave me a "basket case" Athearn metal last night.

                                                Anybody care to wager on the odds it's salvagable?

                                                Stay tuned.

                                                Don

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                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 469 From: Jack Priller Date: 3/21/2005
                                                Subject: Re: Basket Case
                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dave Slater <daslater@s...> wrote:
                                                > Don D.,
                                                > I've seen "Basket Cases" and then I have seen "BASKET
                                                CASES!!!!!!!!)
                                                > the later came with the following memo, "Dearly beloved we are
                                                > gathered here".. LOL
                                                > Dave S.

                                                Not truly relevent this group, but I have seen a true "basket case"
                                                antique car; the whole thing had been reduced to almost as many
                                                pieces as the manufacturer had used to build it originally. The
                                                larger pieces were crated for shipment, but the were about a dozen
                                                bushel baskets with lids full of the smaller parts. Reconstructed
                                                car is almost a centerpiece of a museum near Kalamazoo, MI. [It was
                                                a 1917 Rolls-Royce Silver Ghost.]

                                                > Don Dellmann wrote:
                                                >
                                                > > A freind gave me a "basket case" Athearn metal last night.
                                                > >
                                                > > Anybody care to wager on the odds it's salvagable?
                                                > >
                                                > > Stay tuned.
                                                > >
                                                > > Don

                                                Since I have some small knowledge of both your resourcefullness, and
                                                your resources [i.e. knowledgable friends], my money goes on the
                                                side of salvagable. My daddy weaned me of sucker bets a l-o-n-g time
                                                ago.

                                                Jack Priller
                                                aka
                                                Ye Olde Trolleynut
                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 470 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/23/2005
                                                Subject: Re: Basket Case
                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                From: Jack Priller <westpac67@...>
                                                To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 5:39 PM
                                                Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Basket Case


                                                >
                                                > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dave Slater <daslater@s...> wrote:
                                                > > Don D.,
                                                > > I've seen "Basket Cases" and then I have seen "BASKET
                                                > CASES!!!!!!!!)
                                                > > the later came with the following memo, "Dearly beloved we are
                                                > > gathered here".. LOL
                                                > > Dave S.
                                                >
                                                > Not truly relevent this group, but I have seen a true "basket case"
                                                > antique car; the whole thing had been reduced to almost as many
                                                > pieces as the manufacturer had used to build it originally. The
                                                > larger pieces were crated for shipment, but the were about a dozen
                                                > bushel baskets with lids full of the smaller parts. Reconstructed
                                                > car is almost a centerpiece of a museum near Kalamazoo, MI. [It was
                                                > a 1917 Rolls-Royce Silver Ghost.]
                                                >
                                                > > Don Dellmann wrote:
                                                > >
                                                > > > A freind gave me a "basket case" Athearn metal last night.
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Anybody care to wager on the odds it's salvagable?
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Stay tuned.
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Don
                                                >
                                                > Since I have some small knowledge of both your resourcefullness, and
                                                > your resources [i.e. knowledgable friends], my money goes on the
                                                > side of salvagable. My daddy weaned me of sucker bets a l-o-n-g time
                                                > ago.
                                                >
                                                > Jack Priller
                                                > aka
                                                > Ye Olde Trolleynut

                                                Well, the ends are back on straight (ah the wonders of J-B Weld!), most of
                                                the rust is wirebrushed off, the missing ladder is replaced, and I found a
                                                new roofwalk in the scrap box.

                                                Can't come up with a matching door yet, but I have a pair of 8' doors that
                                                look good on it (we're not looking at a blueprint restoration here, rather
                                                trying to get something that looks decent and runs well)

                                                I am a little annoyed though, you may recall the 50' Athearn boxcar kit I
                                                got and built a few weeks back? Well, it was missing two roof ribs, so I
                                                left them off the extreme ends (no one notices, it looks like they shouldn't
                                                even be there). Well, to make a short story longer, while looking for parts
                                                for this car in the scrap pile, I came across a whole 'nother set of roof
                                                ribs! :-(

                                                Don

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                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 471 From: Roger Aultman Date: 3/24/2005
                                                Subject: Castor electric
                                                Added a photo in my file fo the latest eBay treasure. It is a Castor
                                                B-1 swithcer, articles in RMC has refered to this as the first H-0
                                                plastic locomotive. It appears to have been used very little if any
                                                and ran like a champ after a loose wire was reattached. Roger Aultman
                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 472 From: Jack Priller Date: 3/24/2005
                                                Subject: Re: Castor electric
                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Aultman" <raul@n...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Added a photo in my file fo the latest eBay treasure. It is a
                                                Castor
                                                > B-1 swithcer, articles in RMC has refered to this as the first H-0
                                                > plastic locomotive. It appears to have been used very little if
                                                any
                                                > and ran like a champ after a loose wire was reattached. Roger
                                                Aultman

                                                Don't have a mirror handy, but I think my eyes just turned green!

                                                Jack Priller
                                                aka
                                                Ye Olde Trolleynut
                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 473 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/25/2005
                                                Subject: Some new aquisitions
                                                Added a couple photos of more new aquisitions to my photo album on the group
                                                home site. In the Athearn metal folder is PRR 59450, a 50' round roof auto
                                                car aquired in trade from another member of the group for the Hobbyline
                                                caboose I posted photos of last week and in the MDC Roundhouse folder, N&B
                                                701, a 40' AAR box car that came along with the "basket case" car. This one
                                                needed little more than couplers and trucks.

                                                Don

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                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 474 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/26/2005
                                                Subject: Basket case
                                                Attachments :
                                                  Just because something is in somebody's scrap box doesn't mean it's scrap.

                                                  Remember last week's "basket case"?

                                                  Don

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                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 475 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/27/2005
                                                  Subject: Another mystery
                                                  Attachments :
                                                    Can anyone identify this car. It's a 60 foot shorty, the sides are printed
                                                    on clear celluloid like the Varney streamliners, but MUCH glossier (gives
                                                    new meaning to the term "Varnish").

                                                    Don

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                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 476 From: Larry Stevenson Date: 3/28/2005
                                                    Subject: Re: Another mystery
                                                    Hello Don
                                                     
                                                    Although I am not 100% sure, but this car looks like the old Penn Line passenger cars.   I don't think they came with this high gloss finish. This might have been sprayed on by the previous owner.   This car should make a nice addition to your passenger car collection.
                                                     
                                                    Larry

                                                    Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                                    Can anyone identify this car.  It's a 60 foot shorty, the sides are printed
                                                    on clear celluloid like the Varney streamliners, but MUCH glossier (gives
                                                    new meaning to the term "Varnish").

                                                    Don

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                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 477 From: Larry Stevenson Date: 3/28/2005
                                                    Subject: Re: Basket case
                                                    Nice job on the Pere Marquette car, I like those old metal cars too. Don.

                                                    Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                                    Just because something is in somebody's scrap box doesn't mean it's scrap.

                                                    Remember last week's "basket case"?

                                                    Don

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                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 478 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/28/2005
                                                    Subject: Re: Another mystery
                                                    That's probably as good a guess as any unless someone has a better idea. I
                                                    have never seen any vintage Penn line, the only ones I knew were the plastic
                                                    60 footers (as reissued by Varney and LifeLike). The car came in box with
                                                    some Walthers cars that are pre "silver anniversary" versions. (Pre 1959).

                                                    Don

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                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                    From: Larry Stevenson <seekingho@...>
                                                    To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                    Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 7:47 AM
                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Another mystery


                                                    > Hello Don
                                                    >
                                                    > Although I am not 100% sure, but this car looks like the old Penn Line
                                                    passenger cars. I don't think they came with this high gloss finish. This
                                                    might have been sprayed on by the previous owner. This car should make a
                                                    nice addition to your passenger car collection.
                                                    >
                                                    > Larry
                                                    >
                                                    > Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                                    > Can anyone identify this car. It's a 60 foot shorty, the sides are
                                                    printed
                                                    > on clear celluloid like the Varney streamliners, but MUCH glossier (gives
                                                    > new meaning to the term "Varnish").
                                                    >
                                                    > Don
                                                    >
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                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 479 From: cnj999 Date: 3/29/2005
                                                    Subject: Re: Another mystery
                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...>
                                                    wrote:
                                                    > That's probably as good a guess as any unless someone has a better
                                                    idea. I
                                                    > have never seen any vintage Penn line, the only ones I knew were the
                                                    plastic
                                                    > 60 footers (as reissued by Varney and LifeLike). The car came in box
                                                    with
                                                    > some Walthers cars that are pre "silver anniversary" versions. (Pre
                                                    1959).
                                                    >
                                                    > Don
                                                    >

                                                    The earliest PennLine 60-footers that I'm familiar with were die cast,
                                                    not composition. The item shown in the photo section looks like it's of
                                                    a much earlier vintage.

                                                    CNJ999
                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 480 From: erieberk Date: 3/29/2005
                                                    Subject: Re: Another mystery
                                                    Don, Have to agree with cnj999 -- this is not a Penn Line; they had
                                                    cast metal sides. Just checked through tons of early manufacturer and
                                                    supplier catalogs including every Walthers from 1940 through 1960 and
                                                    Model R.R. Equipment Corp. (Carmen Webster)- early '50's - similar to
                                                    Walthers, and came up with nothing that fits your description. Will
                                                    check more catalogs. Oops, just came back from the file cabinet --
                                                    Your "Ranger" Pullman IS a VARNEY (#PA-309). Just checked some pre-war
                                                    Varney catalogs and found it. Varney made nine pre-War named 60'
                                                    Pullmans, a 60' Combine and a 60' day coach with the celluloid
                                                    (plastic) car sides. I had forgotten about them; I only have their 80'
                                                    scale length cars. This one almost stumped me -- I was going to throw
                                                    out the name "Bathgate", that name sticking in the back of my mind as a
                                                    possibility (as I thought); Wrong-O! Anyhow, keep in mind, (for
                                                    future "mystery" acquisitions), that overspraying rolling stock with a
                                                    clear coat of varnish was a practice used in earlier years to protect
                                                    the finish on the models, although not too widespread. Ray
                                                    \
                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...>
                                                    wrote:
                                                    > Can anyone identify this car. It's a 60 foot shorty, the sides are
                                                    printed
                                                    > on clear celluloid like the Varney streamliners, but MUCH glossier
                                                    (gives
                                                    > new meaning to the term "Varnish").
                                                    >
                                                    > Don
                                                    >
                                                    > don.dellmann@p...
                                                    > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                    > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
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                                                    > co-moderator: SCENERY@Y...
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                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 481 From: erieberk Date: 3/29/2005
                                                    Subject: Re: Varney Pre-War 60' "Shorties"
                                                    Hey guys, Just thought I'd throw a list of these Varney pre-War 60'
                                                    passenger cars out there for I.D. purposes, in case you run across them
                                                    (and aren't sure what you've found). PA-10 Combination Baggage,
                                                    PA-20 Day Coach, PA-307 Pullman (Concord), PA-308 Pullman (Saratoga),
                                                    PA-309 Pullman (Ranger), PA-310 (Minute Man), PA-311 Pullman
                                                    (Vigilante), PA-312 Pullman (Tillamook), PA-313 (Pullman (Medicine
                                                    Hat), PA-314 Pullman (Sitting Bull) and PA-315 Pullman (Rancho
                                                    Grande). Good luck in finding them! Ray
                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 482 From: don.dellmann Date: 3/29/2005
                                                    Subject: Re: Another mystery
                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                    From: erieberk <erieberk@...>
                                                    To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                    Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 7:17 AM
                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Another mystery


                                                    >
                                                    > Don, Have to agree with cnj999 -- this is not a Penn Line; they had
                                                    > cast metal sides. Just checked through tons of early manufacturer and
                                                    > supplier catalogs including every Walthers from 1940 through 1960 and
                                                    > Model R.R. Equipment Corp. (Carmen Webster)- early '50's - similar to
                                                    > Walthers, and came up with nothing that fits your description. Will
                                                    > check more catalogs. Oops, just came back from the file cabinet --
                                                    > Your "Ranger" Pullman IS a VARNEY (#PA-309). Just checked some pre-war
                                                    > Varney catalogs and found it. Varney made nine pre-War named 60'
                                                    > Pullmans, a 60' Combine and a 60' day coach with the celluloid
                                                    > (plastic) car sides. I had forgotten about them; I only have their 80'
                                                    > scale length cars. This one almost stumped me -- I was going to throw
                                                    > out the name "Bathgate", that name sticking in the back of my mind as a
                                                    > possibility (as I thought); Wrong-O! Anyhow, keep in mind, (for
                                                    > future "mystery" acquisitions), that overspraying rolling stock with a
                                                    > clear coat of varnish was a practice used in earlier years to protect
                                                    > the finish on the models, although not too widespread. Ray
                                                    > \
                                                    > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...>
                                                    > wrote:
                                                    > > Can anyone identify this car. It's a 60 foot shorty, the sides are
                                                    > printed
                                                    > > on clear celluloid like the Varney streamliners, but MUCH glossier
                                                    > (gives
                                                    > > new meaning to the term "Varnish").
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Don
                                                    > >
                                                    > > don.dellmann@p...
                                                    > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                    > > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > > co-moderator: SCENERY@Y...
                                                    > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                    > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO

                                                    Thanks. The construction appeared the same as my Varney 80 footers, but the
                                                    only shortys I was familiar with were the cardstock ones.

                                                    Don

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                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 483 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/4/2005
                                                    Subject: Mysteriouser & Mysteriouser
                                                    Attachments :
                                                      Here's another one! You guys have helped so much on a few previous models,
                                                      let's give this one a shot.

                                                      It came today in a box of parts from an S-guager on the "freecycle trains"
                                                      list, lots of nice brass wheelsets, a bunch of old varney truck parts,
                                                      ladders, steps, doors, all the kinds of junk I like for my restorations.

                                                      Anyway, this is HO, the sides and roof are formed from one piece of sheet
                                                      steel (not brass), the nose, including the windshield, is carved from wood.

                                                      There was only one truck, with a really weird bolster arrangement. There
                                                      was a Lindsay frame in the box that looks like it was intended for a F-unit,
                                                      but the truck mounting arrangement looks like it could have been used on
                                                      this one, with sheet metal brackets extending the trucks out past the ends
                                                      of the frame.

                                                      I'm putting two pictures here, I put more, including shots of the one truck,
                                                      in the "temporary" album on the group yahoo photos page.

                                                      Don

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                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 484 From: Roger Aultman Date: 4/4/2005
                                                      Subject: Re: Mysteriouser & Mysteriouser
                                                      Attachments :
                                                        Hello Don and fellow list members: Found this ad in the February 1948
                                                        MR, the construction sounds similar to your diesel but says the ends are
                                                        bronze and the sides zinc etchings. The price is pretty hefty for those
                                                        years, bet it was not a big seller. Roger Aultman



                                                        Don Dellmann wrote:
                                                        > Here's another one! You guys have helped so much on a few previous models,
                                                        > let's give this one a shot.
                                                        >
                                                        > It came today in a box of parts from an S-guager on the "freecycle trains"
                                                        > list, lots of nice brass wheelsets, a bunch of old varney truck parts,
                                                        > ladders, steps, doors, all the kinds of junk I like for my restorations.
                                                        >
                                                        > Anyway, this is HO, the sides and roof are formed from one piece of sheet
                                                        > steel (not brass), the nose, including the windshield, is carved from wood.
                                                        >
                                                        > There was only one truck, with a really weird bolster arrangement. There
                                                        > was a Lindsay frame in the box that looks like it was intended for a F-unit,
                                                        > but the truck mounting arrangement looks like it could have been used on
                                                        > this one, with sheet metal brackets extending the trucks out past the ends
                                                        > of the frame.
                                                        >
                                                        > I'm putting two pictures here, I put more, including shots of the one truck,
                                                        > in the "temporary" album on the group yahoo photos page.
                                                        >
                                                        > Don
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                        >


                                                        --
                                                        http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm
                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 485 From: don.dellmann Date: 4/5/2005
                                                        Subject: Re: Mysteriouser & Mysteriouser
                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                        From: Roger Aultman <raul@...>
                                                        To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                        Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 9:17 PM
                                                        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mysteriouser & Mysteriouser


                                                        > Hello Don and fellow list members: Found this ad in the February 1948
                                                        > MR, the construction sounds similar to your diesel but says the ends are
                                                        > bronze and the sides zinc etchings. The price is pretty hefty for those
                                                        > years, bet it was not a big seller. Roger Aultman
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >

                                                        Interesting, but this one definitely has the sides and roof one piece of
                                                        sheet steel, with details soldered on. Also, you can't see from the
                                                        pictures, but the screened openings had brass or bronze screen soldered from
                                                        the inside.

                                                        Don

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                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 486 From: Bill Daley Date: 4/6/2005
                                                        Subject: Re: Mysteriouser & Mysteriouser


                                                        Roger Aultman <raul@...> wrote:

                                                        ... the construction sounds similar to your diesel but says the ends are
                                                        bronze and the sides zinc etchings.  The price is pretty hefty for those
                                                        years, bet it was not a big seller. 

                                                        Roger, My guess is that the ad you cited was for Dallas ModelCraft.  And yes, Dallas Modelcraft was NOT a big seller. I still have an FT B unit body kit, and still unbuilt.

                                                         

                                                        Retired grouch  


                                                        Don Dellmann wrote:
                                                        > Here's another one!  You guys have helped so much on a few previous models,
                                                        > let's give this one a shot.
                                                        >
                                                        > It came today in a box of parts from an S-guager on the "freecycle trains"
                                                        > list, lots of nice brass wheelsets, a bunch of old varney truck parts,
                                                        > ladders, steps, doors, all the kinds of junk I like for my restorations.
                                                        >
                                                        > Anyway, this is HO, the sides and roof are formed from one piece of sheet
                                                        > steel (not brass), the nose, including the windshield, is carved from wood.
                                                        >
                                                        > There was only one truck, with a really weird bolster arrangement.  There
                                                        > was a Lindsay frame in the box that looks like it was intended for a F-unit,
                                                        > but the truck mounting arrangement looks like it could have been used on
                                                        > this one, with sheet metal brackets extending the trucks out past the ends
                                                        > of the frame.
                                                        >
                                                        > I'm putting two pictures here, I put more, including shots of the one truck,
                                                        > in the "temporary" album on the group yahoo photos page.
                                                        >
                                                        > Don
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >

                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                        >


                                                        --
                                                        http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm


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                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 487 From: Garry Spear Date: 4/9/2005
                                                        Subject: Metal and Red Ball Kits.
                                                        I have two nice older kit on eBay this week.

                                                        A RED BALL HO GAUGE REEFER KIT MEYER KORNBLUM Reefer kit.
                                                        http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5967503832

                                                        And: > RARE VINTAGE METAL ATHEARN IC BOX CAR KIT NIB including Metal
                                                        Trucks All Carbody parts are Factory Painted Car Init Number - IC 32579
                                                        http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5967503759

                                                        Take a look.

                                                        Garry Spear
                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 488 From: don.dellmann Date: 4/9/2005
                                                        Subject: Re: Metal and Red Ball Kits.
                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                        From: Garry Spear <gspear01@...>
                                                        To: Vintage HO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                        Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 4:44 PM
                                                        Subject: [vintageHO] Metal and Red Ball Kits.


                                                        > I have two nice older kit on eBay this week.
                                                        >
                                                        > A RED BALL HO GAUGE REEFER KIT MEYER KORNBLUM Reefer kit.
                                                        > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5967503832
                                                        >
                                                        > And: > RARE VINTAGE METAL ATHEARN IC BOX CAR KIT NIB including Metal
                                                        > Trucks All Carbody parts are Factory Painted Car Init Number - IC 32579
                                                        > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5967503759
                                                        >
                                                        > Take a look.
                                                        >
                                                        > Garry Spear

                                                        Ooh, don't tempt me like that! Allowance day is the last day of the month
                                                        an April's already been spent :-(

                                                        Don

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                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 489 From: Bob B Date: 4/16/2005
                                                        Subject: Whatzit?
                                                        On the Trains.com Model Railroader a poster has an old car that is
                                                        marked Varney, but has some strange operating parts inside. He's
                                                        wondering what it might be. I suggested it might be one of the cars
                                                        made from John Allen's idea to detect rough handling. The one that
                                                        had a metal pinball inside that would make contact at either end and
                                                        put a light on to indicate rough switching.

                                                        Here's the thread, complete with illustrating photos. Maybe some of
                                                        the experts on this list can help:

                                                        http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=35492

                                                        Bob Boudreau
                                                        Canada
                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 490 From: don.dellmann Date: 4/17/2005
                                                        Subject: Re: Whatzit?
                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                        From: Bob B <railphotog@...>
                                                        To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                        Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2005 5:25 PM
                                                        Subject: [vintageHO] Whatzit?


                                                        >
                                                        > On the Trains.com Model Railroader a poster has an old car that is
                                                        > marked Varney, but has some strange operating parts inside. He's
                                                        > wondering what it might be. I suggested it might be one of the cars
                                                        > made from John Allen's idea to detect rough handling. The one that
                                                        > had a metal pinball inside that would make contact at either end and
                                                        > put a light on to indicate rough switching.
                                                        >
                                                        > Here's the thread, complete with illustrating photos. Maybe some of
                                                        > the experts on this list can help:
                                                        >
                                                        > http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=35492
                                                        >
                                                        > Bob Boudreau
                                                        > Canada

                                                        I would tend to go with the comments of the brakeman walking along the roof.

                                                        It doesn't look like the "impact test car" at all (which btw, was made by
                                                        Walthers, although originally there WAS an article in MR on making your own
                                                        to John Allen's design.)

                                                        If you look at it, a rubber band could be stretched between the two shafts
                                                        sticking up at each end, which would rotate if bands came up from the axles
                                                        to the horizontal shafts. The figure would then be fastened to the rubber
                                                        band or belt and would move back & forth.

                                                        The slot in the roof he mentions also adds credence to this theory.

                                                        I've never seen an animated car from Varney though.

                                                        Don

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                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 491 From: Graeme Eldred Date: 4/17/2005
                                                        Subject: Re: Whatzit?
                                                        In message <002801c54355$f73bcde0$74322543@default>, don.dellmann
                                                        <don.dellmann@...> writes
                                                        >
                                                        >If you look at it, a rubber band could be stretched between the two shafts
                                                        >sticking up at each end, which would rotate if bands came up from the axles
                                                        >to the horizontal shafts. The figure would then be fastened to the rubber
                                                        >band or belt and would move back & forth.

                                                        I can see what you are saying, but, would the man on the roof only move
                                                        from one end to the other whilst the car was being pulled in one
                                                        direction? The man wouldn't return to the other end of the roof until
                                                        the car reversed direction, would he? Possible, but doesn't seem likely
                                                        - not much play value, compared to, say, Lionel of the period.
                                                        --
                                                        Graeme, Scotland
                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 492 From: don.dellmann Date: 4/17/2005
                                                        Subject: Re: Whatzit?
                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                        From: Graeme Eldred <graeme@...>
                                                        To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                        Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 11:40 AM
                                                        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Whatzit?


                                                        >
                                                        > In message <002801c54355$f73bcde0$74322543@default>, don.dellmann
                                                        > <don.dellmann@...> writes
                                                        > >
                                                        > >If you look at it, a rubber band could be stretched between the two
                                                        shafts
                                                        > >sticking up at each end, which would rotate if bands came up from the
                                                        axles
                                                        > >to the horizontal shafts. The figure would then be fastened to the
                                                        rubber
                                                        > >band or belt and would move back & forth.
                                                        >
                                                        > I can see what you are saying, but, would the man on the roof only move
                                                        > from one end to the other whilst the car was being pulled in one
                                                        > direction? The man wouldn't return to the other end of the roof until
                                                        > the car reversed direction, would he? Possible, but doesn't seem likely
                                                        > - not much play value, compared to, say, Lionel of the period.
                                                        > --
                                                        > Graeme, Scotland

                                                        If the slot was wide enough, the figure would just travel around the pulley
                                                        at each end and keep going.

                                                        Don

                                                        don.dellmann@...
                                                        http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                        moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
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                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 493 From: erieberk Date: 4/17/2005
                                                        Subject: Re: Whatzit?
                                                        Hey Bob, Wow, quite an obscure item! While at this point i can't tell
                                                        you exactly who made this item, but it appears as if its either a well
                                                        dfone home-crafted job, or an after-market kit that was sold to convert
                                                        the Varney boxcar (and maybe others??). When those of us who helped
                                                        put the Varney Guide (Greenberg's) together, we found nothing on any
                                                        operating cars and thus you will find nothing in the guide to indicate
                                                        anything. I have all the Varney catalogs and there is no mention of
                                                        anything like that. I also have just about everything that Varney made
                                                        and have never come across this. If, as you say, the cast frame is a
                                                        Varney casting, it would have to be a modified frame/floor casting
                                                        (#2040)by some manufacturer or individual. Someone on that forum
                                                        indicated it might be Tyco; another possibility. Can't say for sure as
                                                        I don't know what they were referring to -- although I do have a couple
                                                        of MIB Tyco "Freight Unloading Boxcar" (Tyco #930; dated 9/70). These
                                                        are electrically operated, not mechanically operated (and do not have a
                                                        slot in the roof) -- looks nothing like what's pictured. Anyway, why
                                                        would Tyco use a floor casting with "Varney" stamped in it? You don't
                                                        indicate what the carbody is made of (metal, plastic, wood, or??),
                                                        which may help pin it down better, but it does look like something
                                                        similar to what a John Allen imitator may have made. Ray
                                                        \
                                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Bob B" <railphotog@y...> wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > On the Trains.com Model Railroader a poster has an old car that is
                                                        > marked Varney, but has some strange operating parts inside. He's
                                                        > wondering what it might be. I suggested it might be one of the cars
                                                        > made from John Allen's idea to detect rough handling. The one that
                                                        > had a metal pinball inside that would make contact at either end and
                                                        > put a light on to indicate rough switching.
                                                        >
                                                        > Here's the thread, complete with illustrating photos. Maybe some of
                                                        > the experts on this list can help:
                                                        >
                                                        > http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=35492
                                                        >
                                                        > Bob Boudreau
                                                        > Canada
                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 494 From: Jack Priller Date: 4/17/2005
                                                        Subject: Off-topic, wrong[?] gauge
                                                        I know this is the Vintage HO group, but some of the more
                                                        experienced types here might be able to help me out. [And never mind
                                                        which way I came in!]

                                                        Found on e-Bay a listing for "Marx track"; the two-rail sections
                                                        didn't look quite right for Marx wind-up track so I asked:

                                                        If you have a chance, could you get a measurement BETWEEN the rails?

                                                        Git this reply:

                                                        We measured and it is 7/8 of an inch between tracks.

                                                        To bid or purchase this item, go to:

                                                        http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5970046084

                                                        Best magnification I can do in Photoshop of the picture shows no
                                                        insulation under either rail; is/was there such a thing as S guage
                                                        wind-up toy trains?

                                                        Thanks in advance,

                                                        Ye Olde Trolleynut
                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 495 From: erieberk Date: 4/17/2005
                                                        Subject: Re: Off-topic, wrong[?] gauge
                                                        Jack, Just checked my Marx and came up with 1 1/8" between the rails
                                                        (or 1 1/4" between the centers/tops of the two round rails), similar
                                                        to O-27 or O gauge. The 7/8" sounds like S gauge -- I don't know of
                                                        any mechanical or "wind-up" S gauge trains ever produced. The
                                                        American Flyer S gauge track was flat on top, and was promoted as
                                                        looking like prototype rail. Ray
                                                        \
                                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Priller" <westpac67@s...>
                                                        wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > I know this is the Vintage HO group, but some of the more
                                                        > experienced types here might be able to help me out. [And never
                                                        mind
                                                        > which way I came in!]
                                                        >
                                                        > Found on e-Bay a listing for "Marx track"; the two-rail sections
                                                        > didn't look quite right for Marx wind-up track so I asked:
                                                        >
                                                        > If you have a chance, could you get a measurement BETWEEN the
                                                        rails?
                                                        >
                                                        > Git this reply:
                                                        >
                                                        > We measured and it is 7/8 of an inch between tracks.
                                                        >
                                                        > To bid or purchase this item, go to:
                                                        >
                                                        > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5970046084
                                                        >
                                                        > Best magnification I can do in Photoshop of the picture shows no
                                                        > insulation under either rail; is/was there such a thing as S guage
                                                        > wind-up toy trains?
                                                        >
                                                        > Thanks in advance,
                                                        >
                                                        > Ye Olde Trolleynut
                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 496 From: Roger Aultman Date: 4/17/2005
                                                        Subject: Re: Off-topic, wrong[?] gauge
                                                        Enlarging the picture in Ifanview the insulators on the rails are quite
                                                        apparent. Roger Aultman



                                                        > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Priller" <westpac67@s...>
                                                        > wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        >>I know this is the Vintage HO group, but some of the more
                                                        >>experienced types here might be able to help me out. [And never
                                                        >
                                                        > mind
                                                        >
                                                        >>which way I came in!]
                                                        >>
                                                        >>Found on e-Bay a listing for "Marx track"; the two-rail sections
                                                        >>didn't look quite right for Marx wind-up track so I asked:
                                                        >>
                                                        >>If you have a chance, could you get a measurement BETWEEN the
                                                        >
                                                        > rails?
                                                        >
                                                        >>Git this reply:
                                                        >>
                                                        >>We measured and it is 7/8 of an inch between tracks.
                                                        >>
                                                        >>To bid or purchase this item, go to:
                                                        >>
                                                        >>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5970046084
                                                        >>
                                                        >>Best magnification I can do in Photoshop of the picture shows no
                                                        >>insulation under either rail; is/was there such a thing as S guage
                                                        >>wind-up toy trains?
                                                        >>
                                                        >>Thanks in advance,
                                                        >>
                                                        >>Ye Olde Trolleynut
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >


                                                        --
                                                        http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm
                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 497 From: Jack Priller Date: 4/17/2005
                                                        Subject: Re: Off-topic, wrong[?] gauge
                                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Roger Aultman <raul@n...> wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > Enlarging the picture in Ifanview the insulators on the rails are
                                                        quite
                                                        > apparent. Roger Aultman
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        That would make it normal American Flyer track.

                                                        Thank you; looks like you have better programs in your machine than I
                                                        have in mine.

                                                        Jack Priller
                                                        aka
                                                        Ye Olde Trolleynut
                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 498 From: Roger Aultman Date: 4/17/2005
                                                        Subject: Re: Off-topic, wrong[?] gauge
                                                        Hello Jack I sent the link to a friend who trades a lot of toy trains
                                                        he ssays it is AF H-0. I remember it in catalogs when I was a kid but
                                                        have never seen it otherwise. Roger






                                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Priller" <westpac67@s...> wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Roger Aultman <raul@n...> wrote:
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Enlarging the picture in Ifanview the insulators on the rails are
                                                        > quite
                                                        > > apparent. Roger Aultman
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > That would make it normal American Flyer track.
                                                        >
                                                        > Thank you; looks like you have better programs in your machine than I
                                                        > have in mine.
                                                        >
                                                        > Jack Priller
                                                        > aka
                                                        > Ye Olde Trolleynut
                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 499 From: Gerry D Date: 4/18/2005
                                                        Subject: Re: Whatzit?
                                                        Ok, I'll answer you if you don't shoot me.

                                                        It's either an adaptation or a kitbash or parts
                                                        salvaged from a TYCO M&STL boxcar that had the
                                                        "walking" brakeman atop it and put in/on the varney
                                                        frame.

                                                        I had one nearly exactly the same by Tyco.

                                                        The cutouts over the wheel sets provided motion via a
                                                        rubber band to the pully set that has the rubber band
                                                        on it.

                                                        The vertical "set" had a longer rubber band stretched
                                                        between the tow nylon pullys with a brakeman (with
                                                        base) attached to the longer rubber band by what
                                                        resembled a common staple embedded in the base and
                                                        squeezed over the longer rubber band.

                                                        Cordially,
                                                        Gerry D

                                                        --- Bob B <railphotog@...> wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > On the Trains.com Model Railroader a poster has an
                                                        > old car that is
                                                        > marked Varney, but has some strange operating parts
                                                        > inside. He's
                                                        > wondering what it might be. I suggested it might be
                                                        > one of the cars
                                                        > made from John Allen's idea to detect rough
                                                        > handling. The one that
                                                        > had a metal pinball inside that would make contact
                                                        > at either end and
                                                        > put a light on to indicate rough switching.
                                                        >
                                                        > Here's the thread, complete with illustrating
                                                        > photos. Maybe some of
                                                        > the experts on this list can help:
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=35492
                                                        >
                                                        > Bob Boudreau
                                                        > Canada
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >



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                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 500 From: Roger Aultman Date: 4/25/2005
                                                        Subject: NEW ONE
                                                        Attachments :
                                                          Attached is a picture of the latesy eBay treasure, a New One kit for a
                                                          work car. This is al that it says on the box end "Work Car", the kit
                                                          appears complete. Most of the castings seem to be of a zinc alloy while
                                                          the roof walk is a very soft casting. The ends and sides are painted
                                                          brown an ds gray respectly. Tenshodo trucks never removed from the
                                                          plastic bag. I cannot remember these kits, thought the locomotives were
                                                          advertised. Also posted is a pix of a 0-8-0 in the photo section in
                                                          my folder. Roger Aultman


                                                          --
                                                          http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 501 From: Sam Date: 4/25/2005
                                                          Subject: FS: Westwood MA & PA 2 car set
                                                          Limited run, only 1908 kits made (year of the prototype). Still new in
                                                          the box, unbuilt and a rare kit. Asking $100. If interested emial off
                                                          list.
                                                          Thanks,
                                                          Sam
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 502 From: Don Riley Date: 4/25/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: NEW ONE
                                                          That is a neat craftsmen kit!
                                                           
                                                          So what brand is the steamer?
                                                           
                                                          Steamengine 4449

                                                          Roger Aultman <raul@...> wrote:
                                                          Attached is a picture of the latesy eBay treasure, a New One kit for a
                                                          work car.  This is al that it says on the box end "Work Car", the kit
                                                          appears complete.  Most of the castings seem to be of a zinc alloy while
                                                          the roof walk is a very soft casting.  The ends and sides are painted
                                                          brown an ds gray respectly.  Tenshodo trucks never removed from the
                                                          plastic bag.  I cannot remember these kits, thought the locomotives were
                                                            advertised.  Also posted is a pix of a 0-8-0 in the photo section in
                                                          my folder.   Roger Aultman

                                                          __________________________________________________
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                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 503 From: Don Riley Date: 4/25/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: FS: Westwood MA & PA 2 car set
                                                          WOW!!! I wonder just how manny of those kits are still out there after all these years! And for that matter how manny of them were never built. I would guess quite a few of them were not built but there have bound to be a few of them that were built and operated.
                                                           
                                                          Steamengine 4449

                                                          Sam <photobysam@...> wrote:
                                                          Limited run, only 1908 kits made (year of the prototype). Still new in the box, unbuilt and a rare kit. Asking $100. If interested emial off list.
                                                          Thanks,
                                                          Sam


                                                          Do you Yahoo!?
                                                          Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!

                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 504 From: James B Date: 4/25/2005
                                                          Subject: Penn Line Find
                                                          Hello,

                                                          I bought up a collection of train stuff the other day and found a
                                                          surprise in the one box. Some HO Scale Penn Line freight cars in great
                                                          shape. There was a Metal Monon boxcar, a Metal ART reefer car, a
                                                          plastic WM gon, and a plastic C & EI caboose. Unfortunately the WM gon
                                                          is missing one axle. The Penn line wheels are larger than regulars
                                                          wheels. Anybody on this list have an extra axle with wheels they might
                                                          want to part with? I would like to complete this car for my
                                                          collection. I have uploaded pics of all these cars in the photo
                                                          section in a folder marked James Bartelt. The cars are all marked on
                                                          the bottom Made in Western Germany. They are some neat vintage cars.

                                                          --
                                                          James Bartelt
                                                          barteltj@...

                                                          Jim's Railroad & Great Lakes Photo's
                                                          http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumList?u=1751079

                                                          METRO RR Club
                                                          http://www.metrorrclub.org

                                                          METRO RR CLUB SPRING SHOW 2005
                                                          http://www.execpc.com/~barteltj/spring
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 505 From: don.dellmann Date: 4/26/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: Penn Line Find
                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                          From: James B <barteltj@...>
                                                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 10:07 PM
                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Penn Line Find


                                                          >
                                                          > Hello,
                                                          >
                                                          > I bought up a collection of train stuff the other day and found a
                                                          > surprise in the one box. Some HO Scale Penn Line freight cars in great
                                                          > shape. There was a Metal Monon boxcar, a Metal ART reefer car, a
                                                          > plastic WM gon, and a plastic C & EI caboose. Unfortunately the WM gon
                                                          > is missing one axle. The Penn line wheels are larger than regulars
                                                          > wheels. Anybody on this list have an extra axle with wheels they might
                                                          > want to part with? I would like to complete this car for my
                                                          > collection. I have uploaded pics of all these cars in the photo
                                                          > section in a folder marked James Bartelt. The cars are all marked on
                                                          > the bottom Made in Western Germany. They are some neat vintage cars.
                                                          >
                                                          > --
                                                          > James Bartelt
                                                          > barteltj@...
                                                          >
                                                          > Jim's Railroad & Great Lakes Photo's
                                                          > http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumList?u=1751079
                                                          >
                                                          > METRO RR Club
                                                          > http://www.metrorrclub.org
                                                          >
                                                          > METRO RR CLUB SPRING SHOW 2005
                                                          > http://www.execpc.com/~barteltj/spring

                                                          What do you mean by "larger" Larger diameter? Longer axle?

                                                          Can you supply some dimensions? (have a lot of "weird" stuff in the scrap
                                                          box)

                                                          I wonder if those "made in Germany" cars may have been done by Fleischmann?

                                                          Don

                                                          don.dellmann@...
                                                          http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                          moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                          moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
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                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 506 From: redehaas@dds.nl Date: 4/26/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: Penn Line Find
                                                          > >
                                                          >
                                                          > > Hello,
                                                          >
                                                          > >
                                                          >
                                                          > > I bought up a collection of train stuff the other day and found a
                                                          >
                                                          > > surprise in the one box. Some HO Scale Penn Line freight cars in great
                                                          >
                                                          > > shape. There was a Metal Monon boxcar, a Metal ART reefer car, a
                                                          >
                                                          > > plastic WM gon, and a plastic C & EI caboose. Unfortunately the WM gon
                                                          >
                                                          > > is missing one axle. The Penn line wheels are larger than regulars
                                                          >
                                                          > > wheels. Anybody on this list have an extra axle with wheels they might
                                                          >
                                                          > > want to part with? I would like to complete this car for my
                                                          >
                                                          > > collection. I have uploaded pics of all these cars in the photo
                                                          >
                                                          > > section in a folder marked James Bartelt. The cars are all marked on
                                                          >
                                                          > > the bottom Made in Western Germany. They are some neat vintage cars.
                                                          >
                                                          > >
                                                          >
                                                          > > --
                                                          >
                                                          > > James Bartelt
                                                          >
                                                          > > barteltj@...
                                                          >
                                                          > >
                                                          >
                                                          > > Jim's Railroad & Great Lakes Photo's
                                                          >
                                                          > > http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumList?u=1751079
                                                          >
                                                          > >
                                                          >
                                                          > > METRO RR Club
                                                          >
                                                          > > http://www.metrorrclub.org
                                                          >
                                                          > >
                                                          >
                                                          > > METRO RR CLUB SPRING SHOW 2005
                                                          >
                                                          > > http://www.execpc.com/~barteltj/spring
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > What do you mean by "larger" Larger diameter?  Longer axle?
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > Can you supply some dimensions?  (have a lot of "weird" stuff in the scrap
                                                          >
                                                          > box)
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > I wonder if those "made in Germany" cars may have been done by Fleischmann?
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > Don

                                                          Penn Line cooperated with Fleischmann in the mid 50's.
                                                          Probably your wheels don't have rp32 flanges but large "European style" flanges.
                                                          Therefore the wheels are European too, thus bigger than US style wheels.
                                                          In 1955 Penn Line provided their rolling stock with Fleischmann hook couplers.
                                                          Underneath the Penn Line sticker on the Monon/ART car it will probably say
                                                          Fleischmann! If you need some parts, I can look what I got here. I'm a
                                                          Fleischmann collector and live in Holland.
                                                          Kind regards,
                                                          Rudolf
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 507 From: Rudolf de Haas Date: 4/26/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: Penn Line Find
                                                          Yes, when I look at your pictures, these are Fleischmann cars definitly!
                                                          The stamp on the botom of the car says B13/5; The /5 stands for 1955.
                                                          You can look at this site http://www.effert.de/ and than
                                                          sammlermodelle --> Pennline. If you can read German, it's an
                                                          interesting site... Your cars are also pictured there.
                                                          Regards, Rudolf

                                                          > Penn Line cooperated with Fleischmann in the mid 50's.
                                                          > Probably your wheels don't have rp32 flanges but large "European
                                                          style" flanges.
                                                          > Therefore the wheels are European too, thus bigger than US style
                                                          wheels.
                                                          > In 1955 Penn Line provided their rolling stock with Fleischmann hook
                                                          couplers.
                                                          > Underneath the Penn Line sticker on the Monon/ART car it will
                                                          probably say
                                                          > Fleischmann! If you need some parts, I can look what I got here. I'm a
                                                          > Fleischmann collector and live in Holland.
                                                          > Kind regards,
                                                          > Rudolf
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 508 From: don.dellmann Date: 4/26/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: NEW ONE
                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                          From: Roger Aultman <raul@...>
                                                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 6:29 PM
                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] NEW ONE


                                                          > Attached is a picture of the latesy eBay treasure, a New One kit for a
                                                          > work car. This is al that it says on the box end "Work Car", the kit
                                                          > appears complete. Most of the castings seem to be of a zinc alloy while
                                                          > the roof walk is a very soft casting. The ends and sides are painted
                                                          > brown an ds gray respectly. Tenshodo trucks never removed from the
                                                          > plastic bag. I cannot remember these kits, thought the locomotives were
                                                          > advertised. Also posted is a pix of a 0-8-0 in the photo section in
                                                          > my folder. Roger Aultman
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > --
                                                          > http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

                                                          I believe the "New One" locomotives were sold in the US by Aristo-Craft,
                                                          weren't they?

                                                          You may recall some months back I posted pictures of an all metal WP AAR Box
                                                          car as a :"mystery car", the consensus of the group was that it was an
                                                          "International" import.

                                                          What I find interesting is the graphics on the box are IDENTICAL to your
                                                          work car kit.

                                                          Mysteriouser & mysteriouser.

                                                          Don

                                                          don.dellmann@...
                                                          http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                          moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
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                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 509 From: Sam Date: 4/27/2005
                                                          Subject: FS: Walthers Metal Passenger Car kits
                                                          All kits new less T/C, $30 ea OBO
                                                          6602 80' Pullman (12 section)
                                                          6614 80' Pullman (14 section)
                                                          6659 80' Dormitory Lounge (ATSF)
                                                          6680 75' Coach
                                                          7814 80' Pullman (14 section)
                                                          7881 75' Coach
                                                          7882 80' Coach

                                                          Started Kits: $50 ea. OBO
                                                          7833 UP 60' Postal, used by UP, B&M, Milwaukee, GN, RI & IC.
                                                          7845 75' Modernized Comb Pennsy.
                                                          Both have been started, floor and supports have been replaced with
                                                          Plexiglas, Plexiglas does not shrink or warp and can be drilled and
                                                          taped, easy to glue when adding styrene parts. Also adds more weight
                                                          lower to help tracking. Photos available on request.
                                                          If interested, contact off list.
                                                          Sam
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 510 From: James Bartelt Date: 4/27/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: Penn Line Find
                                                          Hello Don & Rudolf,

                                                          Thanks for your replies and assistance. Hard to believe they are 50 years old.  To answer the questions on the wheel set, Length from tip to tip is 2.5 cm.  Wheel diameter measured across the flange is 1.4 cm. I have a need for one wheel set like this. Any help obtaining one would be appreciated. If you have a wheel set please email me back to work out the details. Thanks for the assistance.
                                                          James Bartelt
                                                          barteltj@...
                                                          
                                                          Jim’s Railroad & Great Lakes Photo’s
                                                          http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumList?u=1751079
                                                          
                                                          METRO RR Club
                                                          http://www.metrorrclub.org
                                                          
                                                          METRO RR CLUB SPRING SHOW 2005
                                                          http://www.execpc.com/~barteltj/spring
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          


                                                          Rudolf de Haas wrote:
                                                          Yes, when I look at your pictures, these are Fleischmann cars definitly!
                                                          The stamp on the botom of the car says B13/5; The /5 stands for 1955.
                                                          You can look at this site http://www.effert.de/ and than 
                                                          sammlermodelle --> Pennline. If you can read German, it's an 
                                                          interesting site... Your cars are also pictured there.
                                                          Regards, Rudolf
                                                          
                                                            
                                                          Penn Line cooperated with Fleischmann in the mid 50's.
                                                          Probably your wheels don't have rp32 flanges but large "European 
                                                              
                                                          style" flanges.
                                                            
                                                          Therefore the wheels are European too, thus bigger than US style 
                                                              
                                                          wheels.
                                                            
                                                          In 1955 Penn Line provided their rolling stock with Fleischmann hook 
                                                              
                                                          couplers.
                                                            
                                                          Underneath the Penn Line sticker on the Monon/ART car it will 
                                                              
                                                          probably say
                                                            
                                                          Fleischmann! If you need some parts, I can look what I got here. I'm a
                                                          Fleischmann collector and live in Holland.
                                                          Kind regards,
                                                          Rudolf
                                                              
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                           
                                                          Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                          
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                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 511 From: Roger Aultman Date: 4/27/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: NEW ONE
                                                          I looked through some magazines from the early 50's seems like the
                                                          Aristocraft name was used by Polks Hobbies, did not see a mention of New
                                                          One in their adds. Though I would not consider that proof that they
                                                          were not connected. Adds with the Japenese die-cast locos keep popping
                                                          up in my memory, but have not been able to find them. Perhaps they are
                                                          not as old as I am thinking they are. Roger Aultman



                                                          don.dellmann wrote:
                                                          >
                                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                                          > From: Roger Aultman <raul@...>
                                                          > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          > Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 6:29 PM
                                                          > Subject: [vintageHO] NEW ONE
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > I believe the "New One" locomotives were sold in the US by Aristo-Craft,
                                                          > weren't they?
                                                          >
                                                          > You may recall some months back I posted pictures of an all metal WP AAR Box
                                                          > car as a :"mystery car", the consensus of the group was that it was an
                                                          > "International" import.
                                                          >
                                                          > What I find interesting is the graphics on the box are IDENTICAL to your
                                                          > work car kit.
                                                          >
                                                          > Mysteriouser & mysteriouser.
                                                          >
                                                          > Don
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >


                                                          --
                                                          http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 512 From: redehaas@dds.nl Date: 4/27/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: Penn Line Find
                                                          Hi James,
                                                          These wheelsets with these masurements are still new available in modeltrain
                                                          shops here in Europe. Maybe I got some too somewhere, I've to look.
                                                          If you want me to look after some new wheels in the shop, I can look for you if
                                                          you want.
                                                          Regards,
                                                          Rudolf




                                                          Citeren James Bartelt <barteltj@...>:

                                                          > Hello Don & Rudolf,
                                                          >
                                                          > Thanks for your replies and assistance. Hard to believe they are 50
                                                          > years old. To answer the questions on the wheel set, Length from tip to
                                                          > tip is 2.5 cm. Wheel diameter measured across the flange is 1.4 cm. I
                                                          > have a need for one wheel set like this. Any help obtaining one would be
                                                          > appreciated. If you have a wheel set please email me back to work out
                                                          > the details. Thanks for the assistance.
                                                          >
                                                          > James Bartelt
                                                          > barteltj@...
                                                          >
                                                          > Jim's Railroad & Great Lakes Photo's
                                                          > http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumList?u=1751079
                                                          >
                                                          > METRO RR Club
                                                          > http://www.metrorrclub.org
                                                          >
                                                          > METRO RR CLUB SPRING SHOW 2005
                                                          > http://www.execpc.com/~barteltj/spring
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > Rudolf de Haas wrote:
                                                          >
                                                          > >Yes, when I look at your pictures, these are Fleischmann cars definitly!
                                                          > >The stamp on the botom of the car says B13/5; The /5 stands for 1955.
                                                          > >You can look at this site http://www.effert.de/ and than
                                                          > >sammlermodelle --> Pennline. If you can read German, it's an
                                                          > >interesting site... Your cars are also pictured there.
                                                          > >Regards, Rudolf
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >>Penn Line cooperated with Fleischmann in the mid 50's.
                                                          > >>Probably your wheels don't have rp32 flanges but large "European
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >style" flanges.
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >>Therefore the wheels are European too, thus bigger than US style
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >wheels.
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >>In 1955 Penn Line provided their rolling stock with Fleischmann hook
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >couplers.
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >>Underneath the Penn Line sticker on the Monon/ART car it will
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >probably say
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >>Fleischmann! If you need some parts, I can look what I got here. I'm a
                                                          > >>Fleischmann collector and live in Holland.
                                                          > >>Kind regards,
                                                          > >>Rudolf
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >_____________________________________________________
                                                          > >This message scanned for viruses by CoreComm
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          >
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 513 From: don.dellmann Date: 4/28/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: NEW ONE
                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                          From: Roger Aultman <raul@...>
                                                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 9:28 PM
                                                          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] NEW ONE


                                                          > I looked through some magazines from the early 50's seems like the
                                                          > Aristocraft name was used by Polks Hobbies, did not see a mention of New
                                                          > One in their adds. Though I would not consider that proof that they
                                                          > were not connected. Adds with the Japenese die-cast locos keep popping
                                                          > up in my memory, but have not been able to find them. Perhaps they are
                                                          > not as old as I am thinking they are. Roger Aultman
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > don.dellmann wrote:

                                                          I have read on a couple occasions of models as being described as "'New One'
                                                          models from 'Aristo-Craft'" in editorial context, but not in ads.

                                                          I believe Aristo-Craft MAY have been Bernie Paul, who later started AHM.

                                                          Don

                                                          don.dellmann@...
                                                          http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                          moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                          moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                          moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                          co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 514 From: don.dellmann Date: 4/28/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: Penn Line Find
                                                          I'll look tonight. When you say "diameter across the flange" are you
                                                          INCLUDING The flange, or the tread diameter?

                                                          Don

                                                          don.dellmann@...
                                                          http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                          moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                          moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                          moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                          co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO

                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                          From: James Bartelt <barteltj@...>
                                                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 9:13 PM
                                                          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Penn Line Find


                                                          > Hello Don & Rudolf,
                                                          >
                                                          > Thanks for your replies and assistance. Hard to believe they are 50
                                                          > years old. To answer the questions on the wheel set, Length from tip to
                                                          > tip is 2.5 cm. Wheel diameter measured across the flange is 1.4 cm. I
                                                          > have a need for one wheel set like this. Any help obtaining one would be
                                                          > appreciated. If you have a wheel set please email me back to work out
                                                          > the details. Thanks for the assistance.
                                                          >
                                                          > James Bartelt
                                                          > barteltj@...
                                                          >
                                                          > Jim's Railroad & Great Lakes Photo's
                                                          > http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumList?u=1751079
                                                          >
                                                          > METRO RR Club
                                                          > http://www.metrorrclub.org
                                                          >
                                                          > METRO RR CLUB SPRING SHOW 2005
                                                          > http://www.execpc.com/~barteltj/spring
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > Rudolf de Haas wrote:
                                                          >
                                                          > >Yes, when I look at your pictures, these are Fleischmann cars definitly!
                                                          > >The stamp on the botom of the car says B13/5; The /5 stands for 1955.
                                                          > >You can look at this site http://www.effert.de/ and than
                                                          > >sammlermodelle --> Pennline. If you can read German, it's an
                                                          > >interesting site... Your cars are also pictured there.
                                                          > >Regards, Rudolf
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >>Penn Line cooperated with Fleischmann in the mid 50's.
                                                          > >>Probably your wheels don't have rp32 flanges but large "European
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >style" flanges.
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >>Therefore the wheels are European too, thus bigger than US style
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >wheels.
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >>In 1955 Penn Line provided their rolling stock with Fleischmann hook
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >couplers.
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >>Underneath the Penn Line sticker on the Monon/ART car it will
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >probably say
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >>Fleischmann! If you need some parts, I can look what I got here. I'm a
                                                          > >>Fleischmann collector and live in Holland.
                                                          > >>Kind regards,
                                                          > >>Rudolf
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >_____________________________________________________
                                                          > >This message scanned for viruses by CoreComm
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          >
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 515 From: oljoe@landolls.com Date: 4/28/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: NEW ONE
                                                          Funny I can't remember the name of those diecast locos but
                                                          I do remmeber the blue boxes with the big yellow pictures of
                                                          the items inside the boxes. As I recall the running gear
                                                          almost always needed some attention (filing and lubing) but
                                                          once that was done they ran well. I also recall they were
                                                          inexpensive. I've recently seen several, with their boxes,
                                                          on E***. I agree they came from Polks but don't think they
                                                          were Aristocraft. I'm sure they showed up in the late 50's
                                                          or early 60's. I think I have a catalog - I'll see if I
                                                          can find the thing.

                                                          Roger Aultman wrote:
                                                          > I looked through some magazines from the early 50's seems like the
                                                          > Aristocraft name was used by Polks Hobbies, did not see a mention of New
                                                          > One in their adds. Though I would not consider that proof that they
                                                          > were not connected. Adds with the Japenese die-cast locos keep popping
                                                          > up in my memory, but have not been able to find them. Perhaps they are
                                                          > not as old as I am thinking they are. Roger Aultman
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > don.dellmann wrote:
                                                          > >
                                                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                          > > From: Roger Aultman <raul@...>
                                                          > > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          > > Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 6:29 PM
                                                          > > Subject: [vintageHO] NEW ONE
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > > I believe the "New One" locomotives were sold in the US by Aristo-Craft,
                                                          > > weren't they?
                                                          > >
                                                          > > You may recall some months back I posted pictures of an all metal WP
                                                          > AAR Box
                                                          > > car as a :"mystery car", the consensus of the group was that it was an
                                                          > > "International" import.
                                                          > >
                                                          > > What I find interesting is the graphics on the box are IDENTICAL to your
                                                          > > work car kit.
                                                          > >
                                                          > > Mysteriouser & mysteriouser.
                                                          > >
                                                          > > Don
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > --
                                                          > http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                          >
                                                          > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                                                          >
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                                                          > <mailto:vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
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                                                          > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                          > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 516 From: Al Date: 4/28/2005
                                                          Subject: New One models
                                                          >I looked through some magazines from the early 50's seems like the
                                                          >Aristocraft name was used by Polks Hobbies, did not see a mention of New
                                                          >One in their adds. Though I would not consider that proof that they
                                                          >were not connected. Adds with the Japenese die-cast locos keep popping
                                                          >up in my memory, but have not been able to find them. Perhaps they are
                                                          >not as old as I am thinking they are. Roger Aultman

                                                          the Aristo-Craft models ( I beleive you;re correct in they were sold
                                                          through Polk ?) -

                                                          anyways, those were manufactured by New One, I have one mint in box, and a
                                                          couple others, and they are only marked New One / Japan , no mention of
                                                          ArstoCraft anywhere except on the boxes.

                                                          Unsure if these were inported / sold by other distributors,etc as something
                                                          other than Aristo-Craft.
                                                          Seems likely that they could have been sold under various brand names,same
                                                          as some Tenshodo's through PFM,or even Athearn (or the current Penn Line
                                                          thread).

                                                          ~ AL

                                                          ps: while on the New Line thread, if anyone has a spare tender for the B&O
                                                          blue 4-6-0 (sold as royal blue, but really just a blue repaint of the 10
                                                          wheeler,near as I know).
                                                          I could repaint one, but would rather have a factory painted if I can find
                                                          one.
                                                          how about a front truck / wheelset for same model ?
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 517 From: Ray Hobin Date: 4/28/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: NEW ONE
                                                          On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 21:28:34 -0500, you wrote:

                                                          >
                                                          >I looked through some magazines from the early 50's seems like the
                                                          >Aristocraft name was used by Polks Hobbies, did not see a mention of New
                                                          >One in their adds. Though I would not consider that proof that they
                                                          >were not connected. Adds with the Japenese die-cast locos keep popping
                                                          >up in my memory, but have not been able to find them. Perhaps they are
                                                          >not as old as I am thinking they are. Roger Aultman

                                                          I still have the box that my CNJ 4-6-0 camelback came in which I purchased
                                                          in 1958. The bottom of the loco frame has stamped "New One Model". Box
                                                          says "Manufactured exclusively for the H.O. Co. Philadelphia, 40 Penna.".

                                                          I don't have any zines dating to that era but wonder what companies, at
                                                          that time, used a Phila. address in zone 40.


                                                          Ray Hobin
                                                          NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX
                                                          Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 518 From: Ray Hobin Date: 4/28/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: NEW ONE
                                                          Sorry for repeat but I omitted one thing: Blue box with yellow top and it
                                                          said "H. O. Train Co", I left out the word "Train" in original post.

                                                          Ray.


                                                          >I looked through some magazines from the early 50's seems like the
                                                          >Aristocraft name was used by Polks Hobbies, did not see a mention of New
                                                          >One in their adds. Though I would not consider that proof that they
                                                          >were not connected. Adds with the Japenese die-cast locos keep popping
                                                          >up in my memory, but have not been able to find them. Perhaps they are
                                                          >not as old as I am thinking they are. Roger Aultman

                                                          I still have the box that my CNJ 4-6-0 camelback came in which I purchased
                                                          in 1958. The bottom of the loco frame has stamped "New One Model". Box
                                                          says "Manufactured exclusively for the H.O. Co. Philadelphia, 40 Penna.".

                                                          I don't have any zines dating to that era but wonder what companies, at
                                                          that time, used a Phila. address in zone 40.


                                                          Ray Hobin
                                                          NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX
                                                          Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 519 From: erieberk Date: 4/28/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: NEW ONE
                                                          Don, While Roger mentions that Aristo-Carft was used by Polk Hobbies,
                                                          actually Aristo-Craft WAS Polk Hobbies, which was started by Nathan
                                                          Polk and his brother Irwin. Ray
                                                          \ --
                                                          - In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...>
                                                          wrote:
                                                          >
                                                          > I have read on a couple occasions of models as being described
                                                          as "'New One'
                                                          > models from 'Aristo-Craft'" in editorial context, but not in ads.
                                                          >
                                                          > I believe Aristo-Craft MAY have been Bernie Paul, who later started
                                                          AHM.
                                                          >
                                                          > Don
                                                          >
                                                          > don.dellmann@p...
                                                          > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                          > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > co-moderator: SCENERY@Y...
                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 520 From: Roger Aultman Date: 4/28/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: New One models
                                                          I bought one of the 2-6-0's new in the early 60's, believe it was as you
                                                          describe, Aristo-Craft on the box and New One on the loco. Roger




                                                          > the Aristo-Craft models ( I beleive you;re correct in they were sold
                                                          > through Polk ?) -
                                                          >
                                                          > anyways, those were manufactured by New One, I have one mint in box, and a
                                                          > couple others, and they are only marked New One / Japan , no mention of
                                                          > ArstoCraft anywhere except on the boxes.
                                                          >
                                                          > Unsure if these were inported / sold by other distributors,etc as something
                                                          > other than Aristo-Craft.
                                                          > Seems likely that they could have been sold under various brand names,same
                                                          > as some Tenshodo's through PFM,or even Athearn (or the current Penn Line
                                                          > thread).
                                                          >
                                                          > ~ AL
                                                          >
                                                          > ps: while on the New Line thread, if anyone has a spare tender for the B&O
                                                          > blue 4-6-0 (sold as royal blue, but really just a blue repaint of the 10
                                                          > wheeler,near as I know).
                                                          > I could repaint one, but would rather have a factory painted if I can find
                                                          > one.
                                                          > how about a front truck / wheelset for same model ?
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >


                                                          --
                                                          http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 521 From: Roger Aultman Date: 4/28/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: NEW ONE
                                                          The April 1962 RMC has a full page add from Corr's, where they list nine
                                                          different Aristo-Craft steamers at $19.95 each, leading me to think the
                                                          time frame was latter then had initially guessed. Roger



                                                          Ray Hobin wrote:
                                                          >
                                                          > I still have the box that my CNJ 4-6-0 camelback came in which I purchased
                                                          > in 1958. The bottom of the loco frame has stamped "New One Model". Box
                                                          > says "Manufactured exclusively for the H.O. Co. Philadelphia, 40 Penna.".
                                                          >
                                                          > I don't have any zines dating to that era but wonder what companies, at
                                                          > that time, used a Phila. address in zone 40.
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > Ray Hobin
                                                          > NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX
                                                          > Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >


                                                          --
                                                          http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 522 From: Ray Hobin Date: 4/28/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: NEW ONE
                                                          On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 11:55:39 -0500, you wrote:

                                                          >The April 1962 RMC has a full page add from Corr's, where they list nine
                                                          >different Aristo-Craft steamers at $19.95 each, leading me to think the
                                                          >time frame was latter then had initially guessed. Roger

                                                          I recall in late 1963 or early 1964 an ad listed as "Funeral Sale" with 3
                                                          CNJ 4-6-0 camelback for price of one...$18.95...some already showed signs
                                                          of zamac "rot" :) Two had damaged front trucks. I fabricated one
                                                          replacement truck from brass but had to convert the other loco to an 0-6-0
                                                          as its front pilot was "dissolving".



                                                          Ray Hobin
                                                          NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX
                                                          Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 523 From: erieberk Date: 4/28/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: New One
                                                          I just dug out an Aristo-Craft catalog, dated 1962, showing all 13
                                                          engines produced in the "Pioneer", "Classic" and "Golden Age" Series as
                                                          well as structures, signals and miscellaneous equipment. Can't say if
                                                          these locos were produced before this time. Oddly enough, there are no
                                                          prices shown on any of these locos, although all other items are
                                                          priced, including three additional "Aristo-Crft -- Rivarossi" engines.
                                                          Perhaps at this date there was some connection to AHM (?), although
                                                          Nathan Polk must have stayed with the company as he brought out his G
                                                          gauge line of locos in the '90's (he died in 1995), under the Aristo-
                                                          Craft brand. Ray
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 524 From: James Bartelt Date: 4/28/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: Penn Line Find
                                                          Don,

                                                          Including the  flange.
                                                          James Bartelt
                                                          barteltj@...
                                                          
                                                          Jim’s Railroad & Great Lakes Photo’s
                                                          http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumList?u=1751079
                                                          
                                                          METRO RR Club
                                                          http://www.metrorrclub.org
                                                          
                                                          METRO RR CLUB SPRING SHOW 2005
                                                          http://www.execpc.com/~barteltj/spring
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          


                                                          don.dellmann wrote:
                                                          I'll look tonight.  When you say "diameter across the flange" are you
                                                          INCLUDING The flange, or the tread diameter?
                                                          
                                                          Don
                                                          
                                                          don.dellmann@...
                                                          http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                          moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                          moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                          moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                          co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                          
                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                          From: James Bartelt <barteltj@...>
                                                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 9:13 PM
                                                          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Penn Line Find
                                                          
                                                          
                                                            
                                                          Hello Don & Rudolf,
                                                          
                                                          Thanks for your replies and assistance. Hard to believe they are 50
                                                          years old.  To answer the questions on the wheel set, Length from tip to
                                                          tip is 2.5 cm.  Wheel diameter measured across the flange is 1.4 cm. I
                                                          have a need for one wheel set like this. Any help obtaining one would be
                                                          appreciated. If you have a wheel set please email me back to work out
                                                          the details. Thanks for the assistance.
                                                          
                                                          James Bartelt
                                                          barteltj@...
                                                          
                                                          Jim's Railroad & Great Lakes Photo's
                                                          http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumList?u=1751079
                                                          
                                                          METRO RR Club
                                                          http://www.metrorrclub.org
                                                          
                                                          METRO RR CLUB SPRING SHOW 2005
                                                          http://www.execpc.com/~barteltj/spring
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          Rudolf de Haas wrote:
                                                          
                                                              
                                                          Yes, when I look at your pictures, these are Fleischmann cars definitly!
                                                          The stamp on the botom of the car says B13/5; The /5 stands for 1955.
                                                          You can look at this site http://www.effert.de/ and than
                                                          sammlermodelle --> Pennline. If you can read German, it's an
                                                          interesting site... Your cars are also pictured there.
                                                          Regards, Rudolf
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                                
                                                          Penn Line cooperated with Fleischmann in the mid 50's.
                                                          Probably your wheels don't have rp32 flanges but large "European
                                                          
                                                          
                                                                  
                                                          style" flanges.
                                                          
                                                          
                                                                
                                                          Therefore the wheels are European too, thus bigger than US style
                                                          
                                                          
                                                                  
                                                          wheels.
                                                          
                                                          
                                                                
                                                          In 1955 Penn Line provided their rolling stock with Fleischmann hook
                                                          
                                                          
                                                                  
                                                          couplers.
                                                          
                                                          
                                                                
                                                          Underneath the Penn Line sticker on the Monon/ART car it will
                                                          
                                                          
                                                                  
                                                          probably say
                                                          
                                                          
                                                                
                                                          Fleischmann! If you need some parts, I can look what I got here. I'm a
                                                          Fleischmann collector and live in Holland.
                                                          Kind regards,
                                                          Rudolf
                                                          
                                                          
                                                                  
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
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                                                          <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                                                          
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                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 525 From: don.dellmann Date: 4/28/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: Penn Line Find
                                                          It'd be more important to get the tread diameter for actual operations, the
                                                          overall diameter would be strictly appearance.

                                                          Anyway, I'll look later to see what I have.

                                                          Don

                                                          don.dellmann@...
                                                          http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                          moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                          moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                          moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                          co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO

                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                          From: James Bartelt <barteltj@...>
                                                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 3:37 PM
                                                          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Penn Line Find


                                                          > Don,
                                                          >
                                                          > Including the flange.
                                                          >
                                                          > James Bartelt
                                                          > barteltj@...
                                                          >
                                                          > Jim's Railroad & Great Lakes Photo's
                                                          > http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumList?u=1751079
                                                          >
                                                          > METRO RR Club
                                                          > http://www.metrorrclub.org
                                                          >
                                                          > METRO RR CLUB SPRING SHOW 2005
                                                          > http://www.execpc.com/~barteltj/spring
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > don.dellmann wrote:
                                                          >
                                                          > >I'll look tonight. When you say "diameter across the flange" are you
                                                          > >INCLUDING The flange, or the tread diameter?
                                                          > >
                                                          > >Don
                                                          > >
                                                          > >don.dellmann@...
                                                          > >http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                          > >moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > >moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > >moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > >co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                          > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                          > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                          > >
                                                          > >----- Original Message -----
                                                          > >From: James Bartelt <barteltj@...>
                                                          > >To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          > >Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 9:13 PM
                                                          > >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Penn Line Find
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >>Hello Don & Rudolf,
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>Thanks for your replies and assistance. Hard to believe they are 50
                                                          > >>years old. To answer the questions on the wheel set, Length from tip to
                                                          > >>tip is 2.5 cm. Wheel diameter measured across the flange is 1.4 cm. I
                                                          > >>have a need for one wheel set like this. Any help obtaining one would be
                                                          > >>appreciated. If you have a wheel set please email me back to work out
                                                          > >>the details. Thanks for the assistance.
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>James Bartelt
                                                          > >>barteltj@...
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>Jim's Railroad & Great Lakes Photo's
                                                          > >>http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumList?u=1751079
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>METRO RR Club
                                                          > >>http://www.metrorrclub.org
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>METRO RR CLUB SPRING SHOW 2005
                                                          > >>http://www.execpc.com/~barteltj/spring
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>Rudolf de Haas wrote:
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>>Yes, when I look at your pictures, these are Fleischmann cars
                                                          definitly!
                                                          > >>>The stamp on the botom of the car says B13/5; The /5 stands for 1955.
                                                          > >>>You can look at this site http://www.effert.de/ and than
                                                          > >>>sammlermodelle --> Pennline. If you can read German, it's an
                                                          > >>>interesting site... Your cars are also pictured there.
                                                          > >>>Regards, Rudolf
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>>Penn Line cooperated with Fleischmann in the mid 50's.
                                                          > >>>>Probably your wheels don't have rp32 flanges but large "European
                                                          > >>>>
                                                          > >>>>
                                                          > >>>>
                                                          > >>>>
                                                          > >>>style" flanges.
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>>Therefore the wheels are European too, thus bigger than US style
                                                          > >>>>
                                                          > >>>>
                                                          > >>>>
                                                          > >>>>
                                                          > >>>wheels.
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>>In 1955 Penn Line provided their rolling stock with Fleischmann hook
                                                          > >>>>
                                                          > >>>>
                                                          > >>>>
                                                          > >>>>
                                                          > >>>couplers.
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>>Underneath the Penn Line sticker on the Monon/ART car it will
                                                          > >>>>
                                                          > >>>>
                                                          > >>>>
                                                          > >>>>
                                                          > >>>probably say
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>>Fleischmann! If you need some parts, I can look what I got here. I'm a
                                                          > >>>>Fleischmann collector and live in Holland.
                                                          > >>>>Kind regards,
                                                          > >>>>Rudolf
                                                          > >>>>
                                                          > >>>>
                                                          > >>>>
                                                          > >>>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>_____________________________________________________
                                                          > >>>This message scanned for viruses by CoreComm
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >_____________________________________________________
                                                          > >This message scanned for viruses by CoreComm
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          >
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 526 From: James Bartelt Date: 4/28/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: Penn Line Find
                                                          Don,

                                                          Just looked at the wheel set again. Tread diameter looks to be 1.2 cm.


                                                          James Bartelt
                                                          barteltj@...
                                                          
                                                          Jim’s Railroad & Great Lakes Photo’s
                                                          http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumList?u=1751079
                                                          
                                                          METRO RR Club
                                                          http://www.metrorrclub.org
                                                          
                                                          METRO RR CLUB SPRING SHOW 2005
                                                          http://www.execpc.com/~barteltj/spring
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          


                                                          don.dellmann wrote:
                                                          It'd be more important to get the tread diameter for actual operations, the
                                                          overall diameter would be strictly appearance.
                                                          
                                                          Anyway, I'll look later to see what I have.
                                                          
                                                          Don
                                                          
                                                          don.dellmann@...
                                                          http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                          moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                          moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                          moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                          co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                          
                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                          From: James Bartelt <barteltj@...>
                                                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 3:37 PM
                                                          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Penn Line Find
                                                          
                                                          
                                                            
                                                          Don,
                                                          
                                                          Including the  flange.
                                                          
                                                          James Bartelt
                                                          barteltj@...
                                                          
                                                          Jim's Railroad & Great Lakes Photo's
                                                          http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumList?u=1751079
                                                          
                                                          METRO RR Club
                                                          http://www.metrorrclub.org
                                                          
                                                          METRO RR CLUB SPRING SHOW 2005
                                                          http://www.execpc.com/~barteltj/spring
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          don.dellmann wrote:
                                                          
                                                              
                                                          I'll look tonight.  When you say "diameter across the flange" are you
                                                          INCLUDING The flange, or the tread diameter?
                                                          
                                                          Don
                                                          
                                                          don.dellmann@...
                                                          http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                          moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                          moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                          moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                          co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                          
                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                          From: James Bartelt <barteltj@...>
                                                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 9:13 PM
                                                          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Penn Line Find
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                                
                                                          Hello Don & Rudolf,
                                                          
                                                          Thanks for your replies and assistance. Hard to believe they are 50
                                                          years old.  To answer the questions on the wheel set, Length from tip to
                                                          tip is 2.5 cm.  Wheel diameter measured across the flange is 1.4 cm. I
                                                          have a need for one wheel set like this. Any help obtaining one would be
                                                          appreciated. If you have a wheel set please email me back to work out
                                                          the details. Thanks for the assistance.
                                                          
                                                          James Bartelt
                                                          barteltj@...
                                                          
                                                          Jim's Railroad & Great Lakes Photo's
                                                          http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumList?u=1751079
                                                          
                                                          METRO RR Club
                                                          http://www.metrorrclub.org
                                                          
                                                          METRO RR CLUB SPRING SHOW 2005
                                                          http://www.execpc.com/~barteltj/spring
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          Rudolf de Haas wrote:
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                                  
                                                          Yes, when I look at your pictures, these are Fleischmann cars
                                                                    
                                                          definitly!
                                                            
                                                          The stamp on the botom of the car says B13/5; The /5 stands for 1955.
                                                          You can look at this site http://www.effert.de/ and than
                                                          sammlermodelle --> Pennline. If you can read German, it's an
                                                          interesting site... Your cars are also pictured there.
                                                          Regards, Rudolf
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                                    
                                                          Penn Line cooperated with Fleischmann in the mid 50's.
                                                          Probably your wheels don't have rp32 flanges but large "European
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                                      
                                                          style" flanges.
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                                    
                                                          Therefore the wheels are European too, thus bigger than US style
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                                      
                                                          wheels.
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                                    
                                                          In 1955 Penn Line provided their rolling stock with Fleischmann hook
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                                      
                                                          couplers.
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                                    
                                                          Underneath the Penn Line sticker on the Monon/ART car it will
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                                      
                                                          probably say
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                                    
                                                          Fleischmann! If you need some parts, I can look what I got here. I'm a
                                                          Fleischmann collector and live in Holland.
                                                          Kind regards,
                                                          Rudolf
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                                      
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          _____________________________________________________
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                                                          Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
                                                          
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                                                          Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                          
                                                          <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/
                                                          
                                                          <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 527 From: don.dellmann Date: 4/29/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: Penn Line Find
                                                          Those are pretty good sized! Scale out to somewhere in the neighborhood of
                                                          40"!

                                                          Anyway, I DID come up with two all plastic wheelsets out of a Fleischmann
                                                          passenger car truck of about the same vintage that seem to be pretty close
                                                          to those dimensions.

                                                          Give me an address off list and I'll send them off to you.

                                                          Don

                                                          don.dellmann@...
                                                          http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                          moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                          moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                          moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                          co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO

                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                          From: James Bartelt <barteltj@...>
                                                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 7:47 PM
                                                          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Penn Line Find


                                                          > Don,
                                                          >
                                                          > Just looked at the wheel set again. Tread diameter looks to be 1.2 cm.
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > James Bartelt
                                                          > barteltj@...
                                                          >
                                                          > Jim's Railroad & Great Lakes Photo's
                                                          > http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumList?u=1751079
                                                          >
                                                          > METRO RR Club
                                                          > http://www.metrorrclub.org
                                                          >
                                                          > METRO RR CLUB SPRING SHOW 2005
                                                          > http://www.execpc.com/~barteltj/spring
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > don.dellmann wrote:
                                                          >
                                                          > >It'd be more important to get the tread diameter for actual operations,
                                                          the
                                                          > >overall diameter would be strictly appearance.
                                                          > >
                                                          > >Anyway, I'll look later to see what I have.
                                                          > >
                                                          > >Don
                                                          > >
                                                          > >don.dellmann@...
                                                          > >http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                          > >moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > >moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > >moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > >co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                          > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                          > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                          > >
                                                          > >----- Original Message -----
                                                          > >From: James Bartelt <barteltj@...>
                                                          > >To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          > >Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 3:37 PM
                                                          > >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Penn Line Find
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >>Don,
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>Including the flange.
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>James Bartelt
                                                          > >>barteltj@...
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>Jim's Railroad & Great Lakes Photo's
                                                          > >>http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumList?u=1751079
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>METRO RR Club
                                                          > >>http://www.metrorrclub.org
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>METRO RR CLUB SPRING SHOW 2005
                                                          > >>http://www.execpc.com/~barteltj/spring
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>don.dellmann wrote:
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>>I'll look tonight. When you say "diameter across the flange" are you
                                                          > >>>INCLUDING The flange, or the tread diameter?
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>Don
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>don.dellmann@...
                                                          > >>>http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                          > >>>moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > >>>moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > >>>moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > >>>co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                          > >>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                          > >>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>----- Original Message -----
                                                          > >>>From: James Bartelt <barteltj@...>
                                                          > >>>To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          > >>>Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 9:13 PM
                                                          > >>>Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Penn Line Find
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>>Hello Don & Rudolf,
                                                          > >>>>
                                                          > >>>>Thanks for your replies and assistance. Hard to believe they are 50
                                                          > >>>>years old. To answer the questions on the wheel set, Length from tip
                                                          to
                                                          > >>>>tip is 2.5 cm. Wheel diameter measured across the flange is 1.4 cm. I
                                                          > >>>>have a need for one wheel set like this. Any help obtaining one would
                                                          be
                                                          > >>>>appreciated. If you have a wheel set please email me back to work out
                                                          > >>>>the details. Thanks for the assistance.
                                                          > >>>>
                                                          > >>>>James Bartelt
                                                          > >>>>barteltj@...
                                                          > >>>>
                                                          > >>>>Jim's Railroad & Great Lakes Photo's
                                                          > >>>>http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumList?u=1751079
                                                          > >>>>
                                                          > >>>>METRO RR Club
                                                          > >>>>http://www.metrorrclub.org
                                                          > >>>>
                                                          > >>>>METRO RR CLUB SPRING SHOW 2005
                                                          > >>>>http://www.execpc.com/~barteltj/spring
                                                          > >>>>
                                                          > >>>>
                                                          > >>>>
                                                          > >>>>
                                                          > >>>>
                                                          > >>>>
                                                          > >>>>Rudolf de Haas wrote:
                                                          > >>>>
                                                          > >>>>
                                                          > >>>>
                                                          > >>>>
                                                          > >>>>
                                                          > >>>>>Yes, when I look at your pictures, these are Fleischmann cars
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >definitly!
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >>>>>The stamp on the botom of the car says B13/5; The /5 stands for 1955.
                                                          > >>>>>You can look at this site http://www.effert.de/ and than
                                                          > >>>>>sammlermodelle --> Pennline. If you can read German, it's an
                                                          > >>>>>interesting site... Your cars are also pictured there.
                                                          > >>>>>Regards, Rudolf
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>>Penn Line cooperated with Fleischmann in the mid 50's.
                                                          > >>>>>>Probably your wheels don't have rp32 flanges but large "European
                                                          > >>>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>style" flanges.
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>>Therefore the wheels are European too, thus bigger than US style
                                                          > >>>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>wheels.
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>>In 1955 Penn Line provided their rolling stock with Fleischmann hook
                                                          > >>>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>couplers.
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>>Underneath the Penn Line sticker on the Monon/ART car it will
                                                          > >>>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>probably say
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>>Fleischmann! If you need some parts, I can look what I got here. I'm
                                                          a
                                                          > >>>>>>Fleischmann collector and live in Holland.
                                                          > >>>>>>Kind regards,
                                                          > >>>>>>Rudolf
                                                          > >>>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>_____________________________________________________
                                                          > >>>>>This message scanned for viruses by CoreComm
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>_____________________________________________________
                                                          > >>>This message scanned for viruses by CoreComm
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >_____________________________________________________
                                                          > >This message scanned for viruses by CoreComm
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          >
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 528 From: Bill Daley Date: 4/30/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: NEW ONE


                                                          Ray Hobin <tcol01@...> wrote:

                                                          in 1958. The bottom of the loco frame has stamped "New One Model".  Box
                                                          says "Manufactured exclusively for the H.O. Co. Philadelphia, 40 Penna.".

                                                          There was in the late '50s, a company called AHC Associated Hobby Company(?) --and not to be confused with AHM -- and it was based in the Philadelphia suburbs in the Cedarbrook/Cheltenham area, which I believe had the postal code of "40". I purchased a locomotive they imported (CNW class E Atlantic) from the Tom Thumb hobby shop in Phila. Said loco came in a blue box with a label printed in black on yellow stock. Ran like a champ.  

                                                          This loco had a $14.95 list, but was on sale for $10.

                                                          BillD 

                                                          __________________________________________________
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                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 529 From: Roger Aultman Date: 5/8/2005
                                                          Subject: Garrett switcher
                                                          I have loaded a picture of a Garrett Baldwin switcher, the body is a
                                                          heavy bronze casting with the frame included in one unit The motor
                                                          and trucks are mounted on a wood floor. The body gives new meaning to
                                                          the term wide body, it makes a Athearn look slim in comparison.
                                                          Roger Aultman
                                                          --
                                                          http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 530 From: Larry Date: 5/20/2005
                                                          Subject: A Request for HO Train Diagrams
                                                          Hello Everyone

                                                          I am seeking copies of diagrams/instructions for old out of production
                                                          train engines and cars(Varney, Mantua, Revelle, MDC, Ulrich, Spectrum,
                                                          Proto etc.). I am in the process of building a new WebSite and have
                                                          posted instructions from my own train collection there. Now I would
                                                          like to find more. Hoping some of you can assist me in finding more
                                                          diagrams. I am trying to create a collectors and modelers resource
                                                          site. Send me an email if you can help me in this endeavor.

                                                          http://www.hoseeker.net/lit.html

                                                          Larry
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 531 From: Graeme Eldred Date: 5/20/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: A Request for HO Train Diagrams
                                                          In message <d6kp9u+7n3g@...>, Larry <seekingho@...> writes
                                                          >
                                                          >I am seeking copies of diagrams/instructions for old out of production
                                                          >train engines and cars(Varney, Mantua, Revelle, MDC, Ulrich, Spectrum,
                                                          >Proto etc.). I am in the process of building a new WebSite and have
                                                          >posted instructions from my own train collection there. Now I would
                                                          >like to find more. Hoping some of you can assist me in finding more
                                                          >diagrams. I am trying to create a collectors and modelers resource
                                                          >site. Send me an email if you can help me in this endeavor.

                                                          Hi Larry,

                                                          Can't help with any literature I'm afraid (wrong side of the Atlantic!),
                                                          but a great idea, and terrific site. Hope it grows.
                                                          --
                                                          Graeme, Scotland
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 532 From: Gerry D Date: 5/20/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: A Request for HO Train Diagrams
                                                          Hi, darn near looks like you took the scans I did of
                                                          the Roundhouse engines for the MDC group on Yahoo.
                                                          No Problem with that, but to build a website that in
                                                          effect "publishes" their copyrighted material could be
                                                          asking for trouble.

                                                          Personally I hope you don't get into any. Your Idea
                                                          will be a GREAT SERVICE to people in the hobby.

                                                          I'll root around as time permits and see what I can
                                                          get together in my limited collection for you.

                                                          I didn't really look to see if you established some
                                                          sort of minimum format for drawings or pictures, you
                                                          may consider doing that to ensure a standardization of
                                                          files and format you receive. Also, and as an option,
                                                          you may consider putting a by-line for those that
                                                          contribute. It may help you in your quest.

                                                          I do have pictures of all of Mantua/Tyco's operating
                                                          hopper cars if you'd be interested in those.

                                                          Your �seeking section�, granted it's your web site,
                                                          but consider what others are seeking as well. Think
                                                          about offering a link in that area to other people's
                                                          pages, hosted elsewhere or on your site, for what they
                                                          are seeking as well. You could limit the number of
                                                          items if you host the list for someone else. Again
                                                          request a standardization of format from people who
                                                          want to be listed there. Keep out the commercial
                                                          collectors, (just my opinion).



                                                          --- Larry <seekingho@...> wrote:
                                                          > Hello Everyone
                                                          >
                                                          > I am seeking copies of diagrams/instructions for old
                                                          > out of production
                                                          > train engines and cars(Varney, Mantua, Revelle, MDC,
                                                          > Ulrich, Spectrum,
                                                          > Proto etc.). I am in the process of building a new
                                                          > WebSite and have
                                                          > posted instructions from my own train collection
                                                          > there. Now I would
                                                          > like to find more. Hoping some of you can assist me
                                                          > in finding more
                                                          > diagrams. I am trying to create a collectors and
                                                          > modelers resource
                                                          > site. Send me an email if you can help me in this
                                                          > endeavor.
                                                          >
                                                          > http://www.hoseeker.net/lit.html
                                                          >
                                                          > Larry
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >



                                                          Discover Yahoo!
                                                          Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news and more. Check it out!
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                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 533 From: diecastdispersal Date: 6/22/2005
                                                          Subject: Die-Cast Dispersal - 19 Lionel Items Listed
                                                          I am processing a large dispersal for a family member with 1000's of
                                                          items from 1990-present, including (19) Lionel items. I am doing
                                                          this to help a family member, it is not a business and I'm not
                                                          trying to spam the board.

                                                          All available Lionel items are being listed on 6/20 and 6/21 to
                                                          provide a consolidated view for collectors. If interested, please
                                                          visit http://www.diecastdispersal.com to view the current listing or
                                                          complete inventory (HTML and PDF formats available under Inventory
                                                          option on Main Menu). The listings end on 6/27 and 6/28 at 8:30PM
                                                          EST.

                                                          Thanks!

                                                          Stewart

                                                          Links to photos of (5) available items:

                                                          http://i10.ebayimg.com/01/i/04/45/60/5d_1_b.JPG
                                                          http://i23.ebayimg.com/02/i/04/4f/bf/0a_1_b.JPG
                                                          http://i5.ebayimg.com/01/i/04/47/eb/35_1_b.JPG
                                                          http://i11.ebayimg.com/01/i/04/48/66/c9_1_b.JPG
                                                          http://i14.ebayimg.com/04/i/04/52/3a/68_1.JPG
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 534 From: internagy Date: 7/2/2005
                                                          Subject: Athearn Parts
                                                          I have an Athearn GP9 (GP7) that I've had since the mid-60's. The
                                                          plastic connectors that are between the motor shaft and the drive
                                                          shaft have both cracked and slip under a load. Does anyone have some
                                                          spares in their parts box they could part with? I'll of course pay for
                                                          them and whatever shipping costs.

                                                          Thanks...Frank Nagy
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 535 From: roy_lafleur1951 Date: 7/6/2005
                                                          Subject: American Beauty
                                                          Hello,

                                                          I have several American Beauty streamline passenger cars. I believe
                                                          they were made in the late 50's or early 60's. Anyone here know when
                                                          they stopped making these cars. They are made of wood and have steele
                                                          sides.

                                                          I am going to restore them as a winter project.

                                                          I am an avid Illinois Central modeler and I will be repainting them the
                                                          cocco brown and orange color scheme.

                                                          Roy
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 536 From: don.dellmann Date: 7/6/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: American Beauty
                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                          From: roy_lafleur1951 <vent.riloquist2@...>
                                                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 9:53 AM
                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] American Beauty


                                                          > Hello,
                                                          >
                                                          > I have several American Beauty streamline passenger cars. I believe
                                                          > they were made in the late 50's or early 60's. Anyone here know when
                                                          > they stopped making these cars. They are made of wood and have steele
                                                          > sides.
                                                          >
                                                          > I am going to restore them as a winter project.
                                                          >
                                                          > I am an avid Illinois Central modeler and I will be repainting them the
                                                          > cocco brown and orange color scheme.
                                                          >
                                                          > Roy

                                                          The last I really recall seeing them advertised was probably ca. 1959 or so.

                                                          Don

                                                          don.dellmann@...
                                                          http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                          moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                          moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                          moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                          co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 537 From: Roger Aultman Date: 7/9/2005
                                                          Subject: Ballast fibre ties
                                                          Do any of the grey beards on the group remember the adhesive used to
                                                          bond ballast when using fibre-tie trackage? When I built the layout I
                                                          ran out of code 100 NS plastic ties and had some brass fibre tie
                                                          strips on hand. They have worked OK in a yard for five years, finally
                                                          getting to the ballasting and cannot recall what mataerial was used
                                                          for holding the ballast in place. Roger Aultman
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 538 From: erieberk Date: 7/10/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: Ballast fibre ties
                                                          Roger, I remember many years ago, I used to use clear "Plasticate"
                                                          which was the 410-M brand of model paint (made for plastic/styrene
                                                          models) made by Stewart-Lundahl and later by Ulrich. It came in 48 CC
                                                          bottles (about 1 7/8 ounces). This was thinned with water in a 5 - 1
                                                          ratio, with 1/2 ounce of dish detergent added which acted as a wetting
                                                          agent. This was applied with a large eye-dropper after the ballast was
                                                          down -- the excess ballast was then swept off after drying. Some of
                                                          the guys would just use water-thinned Elmer's Glue All (clear drying)
                                                          and use it for their ballast the same way as they used it for grass
                                                          (geen-dyed sawdust) by painting the base with that first and then
                                                          sprinkling on the ballast. Ray
                                                          \
                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Aultman" <raul@n...> wrote:
                                                          > Do any of the grey beards on the group remember the adhesive used to
                                                          > bond ballast when using fibre-tie trackage? When I built the layout I
                                                          > ran out of code 100 NS plastic ties and had some brass fibre tie
                                                          > strips on hand. They have worked OK in a yard for five years, finally
                                                          > getting to the ballasting and cannot recall what mataerial was used
                                                          > for holding the ballast in place. Roger Aultman
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 539 From: Roger Aultman Date: 7/10/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: Ballast fibre ties
                                                          Hello Ray My main concern is the fibre ties warping from water based
                                                          asdhesives, since it is a little used area just skipping the adhesive
                                                          may be OK. Roger




                                                          erieberk wrote:
                                                          > Roger, I remember many years ago, I used to use clear "Plasticate"
                                                          > which was the 410-M brand of model paint (made for plastic/styrene
                                                          > models) made by Stewart-Lundahl and later by Ulrich. It came in 48 CC
                                                          > bottles (about 1 7/8 ounces). This was thinned with water in a 5 - 1
                                                          > ratio, with 1/2 ounce of dish detergent added which acted as a wetting
                                                          > agent. This was applied with a large eye-dropper after the ballast was
                                                          > down -- the excess ballast was then swept off after drying. Some of
                                                          > the guys would just use water-thinned Elmer's Glue All (clear drying)
                                                          > and use it for their ballast the same way as they used it for grass
                                                          > (geen-dyed sawdust) by painting the base with that first and then
                                                          > sprinkling on the ballast. Ray
                                                          > \
                                                          > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Aultman" <raul@n...> wrote:
                                                          >
                                                          >>Do any of the grey beards on the group remember the adhesive used to
                                                          >>bond ballast when using fibre-tie trackage? When I built the layout I
                                                          >>ran out of code 100 NS plastic ties and had some brass fibre tie
                                                          >>strips on hand. They have worked OK in a yard for five years, finally
                                                          >>getting to the ballasting and cannot recall what mataerial was used
                                                          >>for holding the ballast in place. Roger Aultman
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >


                                                          --
                                                          http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

                                                          Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 540 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 7/10/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: Ballast fibre ties
                                                          Yeah, that was the major problem with the fiber ties even without exposing them to additional moisture.  They would change guage in basements which got seasonal humidity.  Just a thought, if you haven't put that flex track down yet -- brush on a thin coat of rubber cement (only 3 feet at a time) and quickly lay down a piece of flex track immediately covering it with ballast.  I don't think cement would bother the fiber.  Or, if you don't have too much to lay,  scrap it in favor of plastic ties.  Ray
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 541 From: Mike Brecher Date: 7/10/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: Ballast fibre ties






                                                          >From: erieberk@...
                                                          >Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                          >To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                          >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Ballast fibre ties
                                                          >Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 13:46:17 EDT
                                                          >
                                                          >Yeah, that was the major problem with the fiber ties even without exposing
                                                          >them to additional moisture.  They would change guage in basements which got
                                                          >seasonal humidity.  Just a thought, if you haven't put that flex track down yet
                                                          >-- brush on a thin coat of rubber cement (only 3 feet at a time) and quickly
                                                          >lay down a piece of flex track immediately covering it with ballast.  I don't
                                                          >think cement would bother the fiber.  Or, if you don't have too much to lay,
                                                          >scrap it in favor of plastic ties.  Ray
                                                          I don't know how dedicated you are to the "vintage" concept, but, laying vastly inferior track in a hard to get to location has to be nuts!  Put down some ns flex and be done with it,  If you are a dedicated fiddler, spend your time and energy on the visible part of your layout.
                                                           
                                                           
                                                          Mike
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 542 From: erieberk@wmconnect.com Date: 7/10/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: Ballast fibre ties
                                                          Just what I said when I suggested substituting plastic tied flex track for fibre tied flex track, although I did neglect to mention ns (why ask for more maintenance problems with using brass, especially in a heavily trafficked location such as the yard).  Ray
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 543 From: Roger Aultman Date: 7/10/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: Ballast fibre ties
                                                          I agree Ray and would normally not use it, but this yard is switched
                                                          from one end and the engine is mostly on NS track. Roger




                                                          erieberk@... wrote:
                                                          > Just what I said when I suggested substituting plastic tied flex track
                                                          > for fibre tied flex track, although I did neglect to mention ns (why ask
                                                          > for more maintenance problems with using brass, especially in a heavily
                                                          > trafficked location such as the yard). Ray
                                                          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                          > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                          >
                                                          > * Visit your group "vintageHO
                                                          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO>" on the web.
                                                          >
                                                          > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                          > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > <mailto:vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                                                          >
                                                          > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                          > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                          >


                                                          --
                                                          http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

                                                          Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 544 From: Roger Aultman Date: 7/10/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: Ballast fibre ties
                                                          Hello Mike Actually the track has been down for nearly five years, I
                                                          am just slow at getting to ballast it. It is single ended and the
                                                          switcher rarely gets on the brass tracks. Roger



                                                          Mike Brecher wrote:
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > >From: erieberk@...
                                                          > >Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > >To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Ballast fibre ties
                                                          > >Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 13:46:17 EDT
                                                          > >
                                                          > >Yeah, that was the major problem with the fiber ties even without exposing
                                                          > >them to additional moisture. They would change guage in basements
                                                          > which got
                                                          > >seasonal humidity. Just a thought, if you haven't put that flex track
                                                          > down yet
                                                          > >-- brush on a thin coat of rubber cement (only 3 feet at a time) and
                                                          > quickly
                                                          > >lay down a piece of flex track immediately covering it with
                                                          > ballast. I don't
                                                          > >think cement would bother the fiber. Or, if you don't have too much
                                                          > to lay,
                                                          > >scrap it in favor of plastic ties. Ray
                                                          > I don't know how dedicated you are to the "vintage" concept, but, laying
                                                          > vastly inferior track in a hard to get to location has to be nuts! Put
                                                          > down some ns flex and be done with it, If you are a dedicated fiddler,
                                                          > spend your time and energy on the visible part of your layout.
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > Mike
                                                          >
                                                          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                          > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                          >
                                                          > * Visit your group "vintageHO
                                                          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO>" on the web.
                                                          >
                                                          > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                          > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > <mailto:vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                                                          >
                                                          > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                          > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                          >


                                                          --
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                                                          Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 545 From: Don Dellmann Date: 7/13/2005
                                                          Subject: ID These cars?
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 546 From: erieberk Date: 7/13/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: ID These cars?
                                                          Hey Don, Yup, they're American Beauty cars, just as you suspected.
                                                          Nice find (nice price), especially for getting 3 pairs of Central
                                                          Valley trucks. Saw some 4-wheel passenger trucks on eBay last night --
                                                          a pair of American Beauty trucks went for $12 and some change and a
                                                          pair of Blue Line trucks went for $15 and some change. Okay, they were
                                                          new, but how much wear can there be on good used trucks on the
                                                          average? By the way, while I could just about make out "PULLMAN" on
                                                          one of the carbodies, I presume the rest were similar -- I didn't see a
                                                          roadname. Looks like they were factory painted for the NYC 20th
                                                          Century scheme and not UP Gray as was advertised. Ray
                                                          \ --
                                                          - In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...>
                                                          wrote:
                                                          > Can anyone ID these cars? I'm thinking they may be "American Beauty"
                                                          > although I really bought them just for the trucks.
                                                          >
                                                          > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5985804379
                                                          >
                                                          > Don
                                                          >
                                                          > don.dellmann@p...
                                                          > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                          > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > co-moderator: SCENERY@Y...
                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 547 From: don.dellmann Date: 7/13/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: ID These cars?
                                                          That's kind of what I mean. The Central Valley trucks alone are worth what
                                                          I paid for the three cars.

                                                          As far as the lettering, if you look real close, the top two cars, (the
                                                          diner and the(?)) are lettered "Overland" which on the UP was a two-tone
                                                          grey. They will be repainted, as the original paint is, according to the
                                                          description, in worse shape than the pictures appear.

                                                          I also got three more blue line cars that came in the mail today, but they
                                                          are basically shells and floors, no trucks or couplers, so will take a bit
                                                          of work, but I got an 18 roomette pullman (bringing my total to three), a
                                                          baggage and an observation. With the three UP cars and the various pullmans
                                                          I already have, that allows for a fairly repectable all pullman smooth side
                                                          train, leaving the rib sides for an "all coach" day train.

                                                          Now all I need is room to run them <G>.

                                                          Don

                                                          don.dellmann@...
                                                          http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                          moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
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                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO

                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                          From: erieberk <erieberk@...>
                                                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 10:04 AM
                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: ID These cars?


                                                          > Hey Don, Yup, they're American Beauty cars, just as you suspected.
                                                          > Nice find (nice price), especially for getting 3 pairs of Central
                                                          > Valley trucks. Saw some 4-wheel passenger trucks on eBay last night --
                                                          > a pair of American Beauty trucks went for $12 and some change and a
                                                          > pair of Blue Line trucks went for $15 and some change. Okay, they were
                                                          > new, but how much wear can there be on good used trucks on the
                                                          > average? By the way, while I could just about make out "PULLMAN" on
                                                          > one of the carbodies, I presume the rest were similar -- I didn't see a
                                                          > roadname. Looks like they were factory painted for the NYC 20th
                                                          > Century scheme and not UP Gray as was advertised. Ray
                                                          > \ --
                                                          > - In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...>
                                                          > wrote:
                                                          > > Can anyone ID these cars? I'm thinking they may be "American Beauty"
                                                          > > although I really bought them just for the trucks.
                                                          > >
                                                          > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5985804379
                                                          > >
                                                          > > Don
                                                          > >
                                                          > > don.dellmann@p...
                                                          > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                          > > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > > co-moderator: SCENERY@Y...
                                                          > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                          > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                          ------
                                                          > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                          >
                                                          > a.. Visit your group "vintageHO" on the web.
                                                          >
                                                          > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                          > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                          >
                                                          > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                          Service.
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                          ------
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 548 From: erieberk Date: 7/14/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: ID These cars?
                                                          Don, Not that it matters much, since you're going to repaint these
                                                          American Beauty cars, but does this UP grey paint look like its
                                                          factory painted (or not) and is the "Overland" lettering also factory
                                                          painted (or decaled)? Just curious as, as far as I knew American
                                                          Beauty did not produce the UP Overland grey scheme, but only the
                                                          Armour Yellow. Then again anything's possible; could be a very late
                                                          production of which I'm not aware of, but would like to know if this
                                                          were the case. Ray
                                                          \
                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...>
                                                          wrote:
                                                          > That's kind of what I mean. The Central Valley trucks alone are
                                                          worth what
                                                          > I paid for the three cars.
                                                          >
                                                          > As far as the lettering, if you look real close, the top two cars,
                                                          (the
                                                          > diner and the(?)) are lettered "Overland" which on the UP was a two-
                                                          tone
                                                          > grey. They will be repainted, as the original paint is, according
                                                          to the
                                                          > description, in worse shape than the pictures appear.
                                                          >
                                                          > I also got three more blue line cars that came in the mail today,
                                                          but they
                                                          > are basically shells and floors, no trucks or couplers, so will
                                                          take a bit
                                                          > of work, but I got an 18 roomette pullman (bringing my total to
                                                          three), a
                                                          > baggage and an observation. With the three UP cars and the various
                                                          pullmans
                                                          > I already have, that allows for a fairly repectable all pullman
                                                          smooth side
                                                          > train, leaving the rib sides for an "all coach" day train.
                                                          >
                                                          > Now all I need is room to run them <G>.
                                                          >
                                                          > Don
                                                          >
                                                          > don.dellmann@p...
                                                          > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                          > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > co-moderator: SCENERY@Y...
                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                          >
                                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                                          > From: erieberk <erieberk@w...>
                                                          > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          > Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 10:04 AM
                                                          > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: ID These cars?
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > > Hey Don, Yup, they're American Beauty cars, just as you
                                                          suspected.
                                                          > > Nice find (nice price), especially for getting 3 pairs of Central
                                                          > > Valley trucks. Saw some 4-wheel passenger trucks on eBay last
                                                          night --
                                                          > > a pair of American Beauty trucks went for $12 and some change and
                                                          a
                                                          > > pair of Blue Line trucks went for $15 and some change. Okay,
                                                          they were
                                                          > > new, but how much wear can there be on good used trucks on the
                                                          > > average? By the way, while I could just about make out "PULLMAN"
                                                          on
                                                          > > one of the carbodies, I presume the rest were similar -- I didn't
                                                          see a
                                                          > > roadname. Looks like they were factory painted for the NYC 20th
                                                          > > Century scheme and not UP Gray as was advertised. Ray
                                                          > >
                                                          \
                                                          --
                                                          > > - In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...>
                                                          > > wrote:
                                                          > > > Can anyone ID these cars? I'm thinking they may be "American
                                                          Beauty"
                                                          > > > although I really bought them just for the trucks.
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5985804379
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > > Don
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > > don.dellmann@p...
                                                          > > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                          > > > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > > > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > > > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > > > co-moderator: SCENERY@Y...
                                                          > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                          > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                          --------
                                                          > ------
                                                          > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                          > >
                                                          > > a.. Visit your group "vintageHO" on the web.
                                                          > >
                                                          > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                          > > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > >
                                                          > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                          > Service.
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                          --------
                                                          > ------
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 549 From: Garry Spear Date: 7/14/2005
                                                          Subject: ID These cars?
                                                          Hi Don,

                                                          The cars are by Wright Enterprises. See:
                                                          http://varnish.pennsyrr.com/PRRModel.html
                                                          and select the Wright Enterprises cars for mine. The tabs used to hold
                                                          the sides and floor together are the clue. Also the WE ends are think
                                                          sheet metal and the floor fits between the ends.

                                                          I own and operate many older, 40-50-60 years of age, passenger cars.
                                                          Only a few are listed on my webpages.

                                                          Garry Spear


                                                          > Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 01:38:21 -0500
                                                          > From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
                                                          > Subject: ID These cars?
                                                          >
                                                          > Can anyone ID these cars? I'm thinking they may be "American Beauty"
                                                          > although I really bought them just for the trucks.
                                                          >
                                                          > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5985804379
                                                          >
                                                          > Don
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 550 From: Donald Dellmann Date: 7/14/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: ID These cars?
                                                          Well that's good news, I remember the Wright listings in the Walthers' cataog ca. 1970, but never saw any.  As I recall they were not offered factory painted, is that correct?  If so, then I don't have to feel guilty about stripping them?
                                                           
                                                          Don

                                                          Garry Spear <gspear01@...> wrote:
                                                          Hi Don,

                                                          The cars are by Wright Enterprises. See:
                                                          http://varnish.pennsyrr.com/PRRModel.html
                                                          and select the Wright Enterprises cars for mine.  The tabs used to hold
                                                          the sides and floor together are the clue.  Also the WE ends are think
                                                          sheet metal and the floor fits between the ends.

                                                          I own and operate many older, 40-50-60 years of age, passenger cars.
                                                          Only a few are listed on my webpages.

                                                          Garry Spear


                                                          >    Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 01:38:21 -0500
                                                          >    From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
                                                          > Subject: ID These cars?
                                                          >
                                                          > Can anyone ID these cars?  I'm thinking they may be "American Beauty"
                                                          > although I really bought them just for the trucks.
                                                          >
                                                          > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5985804379
                                                          >
                                                          > Don

                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 551 From: don.dellmann Date: 7/14/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: ID These cars?
                                                          I'll let you know when I get them. They were shipped yesterday according to
                                                          the seller.

                                                          Another member tells be they are actually "Wright Enterprises" cars
                                                          (Remember "MHP/Monroe Hobby Products" ca. 1970?)

                                                          Don

                                                          don.dellmann@...
                                                          http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                          moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                          moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                          moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                          co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO

                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                          From: erieberk <erieberk@...>
                                                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 7:19 AM
                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: ID These cars?


                                                          > Don, Not that it matters much, since you're going to repaint these
                                                          > American Beauty cars, but does this UP grey paint look like its
                                                          > factory painted (or not) and is the "Overland" lettering also factory
                                                          > painted (or decaled)? Just curious as, as far as I knew American
                                                          > Beauty did not produce the UP Overland grey scheme, but only the
                                                          > Armour Yellow. Then again anything's possible; could be a very late
                                                          > production of which I'm not aware of, but would like to know if this
                                                          > were the case. Ray
                                                          > \
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 552 From: don.dellmann Date: 7/15/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: ID These cars?
                                                          Cars arrieved today. As Garry mentioned, they DO appear to be MHP's. The
                                                          match his description on construction perfectly, have MHP diaphragms
                                                          installed, and match the drawings in the Walthers' 1969 catalog for WE28S 5
                                                          bedroom sleeper lounge, WE26S 12-4 sleeper and WE18S (SP Lark) 12-4 sleeper.

                                                          The paint could be factory or an excellent aftermarket job, the lettering is
                                                          decalled.

                                                          I'm watching this seller's (trainsinc) auctions much more closely in the
                                                          future.

                                                          Don

                                                          don.dellmann@...
                                                          http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                          moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                          moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                          moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                          co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO

                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                          From: erieberk <erieberk@...>
                                                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 7:19 AM
                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: ID These cars?


                                                          > Don, Not that it matters much, since you're going to repaint these
                                                          > American Beauty cars, but does this UP grey paint look like its
                                                          > factory painted (or not) and is the "Overland" lettering also factory
                                                          > painted (or decaled)? Just curious as, as far as I knew American
                                                          > Beauty did not produce the UP Overland grey scheme, but only the
                                                          > Armour Yellow. Then again anything's possible; could be a very late
                                                          > production of which I'm not aware of, but would like to know if this
                                                          > were the case. Ray
                                                          > \
                                                          > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...>
                                                          > wrote:
                                                          > > That's kind of what I mean. The Central Valley trucks alone are
                                                          > worth what
                                                          > > I paid for the three cars.
                                                          > >
                                                          > > As far as the lettering, if you look real close, the top two cars,
                                                          > (the
                                                          > > diner and the(?)) are lettered "Overland" which on the UP was a two-
                                                          > tone
                                                          > > grey. They will be repainted, as the original paint is, according
                                                          > to the
                                                          > > description, in worse shape than the pictures appear.
                                                          > >
                                                          > > I also got three more blue line cars that came in the mail today,
                                                          > but they
                                                          > > are basically shells and floors, no trucks or couplers, so will
                                                          > take a bit
                                                          > > of work, but I got an 18 roomette pullman (bringing my total to
                                                          > three), a
                                                          > > baggage and an observation. With the three UP cars and the various
                                                          > pullmans
                                                          > > I already have, that allows for a fairly repectable all pullman
                                                          > smooth side
                                                          > > train, leaving the rib sides for an "all coach" day train.
                                                          > >
                                                          > > Now all I need is room to run them <G>.
                                                          > >
                                                          > > Don
                                                          > >
                                                          > > don.dellmann@p...
                                                          > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                          > > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > > co-moderator: SCENERY@Y...
                                                          > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                          > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                          > >
                                                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                          > > From: erieberk <erieberk@w...>
                                                          > > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          > > Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 10:04 AM
                                                          > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: ID These cars?
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > > > Hey Don, Yup, they're American Beauty cars, just as you
                                                          > suspected.
                                                          > > > Nice find (nice price), especially for getting 3 pairs of Central
                                                          > > > Valley trucks. Saw some 4-wheel passenger trucks on eBay last
                                                          > night --
                                                          > > > a pair of American Beauty trucks went for $12 and some change and
                                                          > a
                                                          > > > pair of Blue Line trucks went for $15 and some change. Okay,
                                                          > they were
                                                          > > > new, but how much wear can there be on good used trucks on the
                                                          > > > average? By the way, while I could just about make out "PULLMAN"
                                                          > on
                                                          > > > one of the carbodies, I presume the rest were similar -- I didn't
                                                          > see a
                                                          > > > roadname. Looks like they were factory painted for the NYC 20th
                                                          > > > Century scheme and not UP Gray as was advertised. Ray
                                                          > > >
                                                          > \
                                                          > --
                                                          > > > - In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...>
                                                          > > > wrote:
                                                          > > > > Can anyone ID these cars? I'm thinking they may be "American
                                                          > Beauty"
                                                          > > > > although I really bought them just for the trucks.
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5985804379
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > > Don
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > > don.dellmann@p...
                                                          > > > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                          > > > > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > > > > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > > > > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > > > > co-moderator: SCENERY@Y...
                                                          > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                          > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                          > --------
                                                          > > ------
                                                          > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > > a.. Visit your group "vintageHO" on the web.
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                          > > > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                          > > Service.
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                          > --------
                                                          > > ------
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                          ------
                                                          > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                          >
                                                          > a.. Visit your group "vintageHO" on the web.
                                                          >
                                                          > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                          > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                          >
                                                          > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                          Service.
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                          ------
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 553 From: erieberk Date: 7/16/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: ID These cars?
                                                          Thank you Don, I thought as much after reading Garry's post. I went
                                                          back and took another look at the photo you posted and realized I
                                                          missed seeing the tell-tale tabs found on the MHP's. What threw me
                                                          off was that the roofs all had paint coming off and it appeared as if
                                                          wood (American Beauty style) was showing through in those areas.
                                                          Looking at the photos again, I believe it may just be bad looking
                                                          metal showing through, although I have to purposely dismiss any
                                                          thought of it being wood as I look at them only to realize then that
                                                          its actually metal. Still looks like wood if I don't scrutinize it.
                                                          The other thing that threw me off was that these were advertised as
                                                          UP. As far as I know Richard Wright never produced UP cars, although
                                                          he did come out with CRI&P (Rocky Mountain Rocket), SOU (Southerner -
                                                          Tennessean) and ATSF (The Chief) besides the many Limited Editions SP
                                                          cars he specialized in for their many name trains. I was not aware,
                                                          however, and have never seen anything on his producing cars for the
                                                          SP Overland. I can only think that they must have been late
                                                          production, unless as you say they may have been repainted. I was
                                                          going to check out my collection of MHP cars after reading Garry's
                                                          post, but thought I'd wait until hearing from you -- those cars are
                                                          packed away in the attic and would not be too easy to find, buried
                                                          among the rest of the collection. Walthers offered these cars from
                                                          the late '70's into at least the mid '80's. By the way, if you're
                                                          interested in SP literature, you might want to check out eBay for
                                                          Wright's "America's Bicentennial Queen" -- his commemorative book on
                                                          the #4449. Its really a 52 pg soft-cover book (sold for $5 back
                                                          then); chock full of info & diagrams -- excellent. Regards, Ray
                                                          \
                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...>
                                                          wrote:
                                                          > Cars arrieved today. As Garry mentioned, they DO appear to be
                                                          MHP's. The
                                                          > match his description on construction perfectly, have MHP diaphragms
                                                          > installed, and match the drawings in the Walthers' 1969 catalog for
                                                          WE28S 5
                                                          > bedroom sleeper lounge, WE26S 12-4 sleeper and WE18S (SP Lark) 12-4
                                                          sleeper.
                                                          >
                                                          > The paint could be factory or an excellent aftermarket job, the
                                                          lettering is
                                                          > decalled.
                                                          >
                                                          > I'm watching this seller's (trainsinc) auctions much more closely
                                                          in the
                                                          > future.
                                                          >
                                                          > Don
                                                          >
                                                          > don.dellmann@p...
                                                          > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                          > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > co-moderator: SCENERY@Y...
                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                          >
                                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                                          > From: erieberk <erieberk@w...>
                                                          > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          > Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 7:19 AM
                                                          > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: ID These cars?
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > > Don, Not that it matters much, since you're going to repaint
                                                          these
                                                          > > American Beauty cars, but does this UP grey paint look like its
                                                          > > factory painted (or not) and is the "Overland" lettering also
                                                          factory
                                                          > > painted (or decaled)? Just curious as, as far as I knew American
                                                          > > Beauty did not produce the UP Overland grey scheme, but only the
                                                          > > Armour Yellow. Then again anything's possible; could be a very
                                                          late
                                                          > > production of which I'm not aware of, but would like to know if
                                                          this
                                                          > > were the case. Ray
                                                          > > \
                                                          > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "don.dellmann"
                                                          <don.dellmann@p...>
                                                          > > wrote:
                                                          > > > That's kind of what I mean. The Central Valley trucks alone are
                                                          > > worth what
                                                          > > > I paid for the three cars.
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > > As far as the lettering, if you look real close, the top two
                                                          cars,
                                                          > > (the
                                                          > > > diner and the(?)) are lettered "Overland" which on the UP was a
                                                          two-
                                                          > > tone
                                                          > > > grey. They will be repainted, as the original paint is,
                                                          according
                                                          > > to the
                                                          > > > description, in worse shape than the pictures appear.
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > > I also got three more blue line cars that came in the mail
                                                          today,
                                                          > > but they
                                                          > > > are basically shells and floors, no trucks or couplers, so will
                                                          > > take a bit
                                                          > > > of work, but I got an 18 roomette pullman (bringing my total to
                                                          > > three), a
                                                          > > > baggage and an observation. With the three UP cars and the
                                                          various
                                                          > > pullmans
                                                          > > > I already have, that allows for a fairly repectable all pullman
                                                          > > smooth side
                                                          > > > train, leaving the rib sides for an "all coach" day train.
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > > Now all I need is room to run them <G>.
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > > Don
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > > don.dellmann@p...
                                                          > > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                          > > > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > > > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > > > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > > > co-moderator: SCENERY@Y...
                                                          > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                          > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                          > > > From: erieberk <erieberk@w...>
                                                          > > > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 10:04 AM
                                                          > > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: ID These cars?
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > > > Hey Don, Yup, they're American Beauty cars, just as you
                                                          > > suspected.
                                                          > > > > Nice find (nice price), especially for getting 3 pairs of
                                                          Central
                                                          > > > > Valley trucks. Saw some 4-wheel passenger trucks on eBay last
                                                          > > night --
                                                          > > > > a pair of American Beauty trucks went for $12 and some change
                                                          and
                                                          > > a
                                                          > > > > pair of Blue Line trucks went for $15 and some change. Okay,
                                                          > > they were
                                                          > > > > new, but how much wear can there be on good used trucks on the
                                                          > > > > average? By the way, while I could just about make
                                                          out "PULLMAN"
                                                          > > on
                                                          > > > > one of the carbodies, I presume the rest were similar -- I
                                                          didn't
                                                          > > see a
                                                          > > > > roadname. Looks like they were factory painted for the NYC
                                                          20th
                                                          > > > > Century scheme and not UP Gray as was advertised. Ray
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > \
                                                          > > --
                                                          > > > > - In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann"
                                                          <don.dellmann@p...>
                                                          > > > > wrote:
                                                          > > > > > Can anyone ID these cars? I'm thinking they may
                                                          be "American
                                                          > > Beauty"
                                                          > > > > > although I really bought them just for the trucks.
                                                          > > > > >
                                                          > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
                                                          ViewItem&item=5985804379
                                                          > > > > >
                                                          > > > > > Don
                                                          > > > > >
                                                          > > > > > don.dellmann@p...
                                                          > > > > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                          > > > > > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > > > > > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > > > > > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > > > > > co-moderator: SCENERY@Y...
                                                          > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                          > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------
                                                          ----
                                                          > > --------
                                                          > > > ------
                                                          > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > > a.. Visit your group "vintageHO" on the web.
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                          > > > > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                                                          Terms of
                                                          > > > Service.
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------
                                                          ----
                                                          > > --------
                                                          > > > ------
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                          --------
                                                          > ------
                                                          > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                          > >
                                                          > > a.. Visit your group "vintageHO" on the web.
                                                          > >
                                                          > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                          > > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > >
                                                          > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                          > Service.
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                          --------
                                                          > ------
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 554 From: don.dellmann Date: 7/16/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: ID These cars?
                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                          From: erieberk <erieberk@...>
                                                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2005 2:08 AM
                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: ID These cars?


                                                          > Thank you Don, I thought as much after reading Garry's post. I went
                                                          > back and took another look at the photo you posted and realized I
                                                          > missed seeing the tell-tale tabs found on the MHP's. What threw me
                                                          > off was that the roofs all had paint coming off and it appeared as if
                                                          > wood (American Beauty style) was showing through in those areas.
                                                          > Looking at the photos again, I believe it may just be bad looking
                                                          > metal showing through, although I have to purposely dismiss any
                                                          > thought of it being wood as I look at them only to realize then that
                                                          > its actually metal. Still looks like wood if I don't scrutinize it.

                                                          They ARE wood, as I'm told the MHP cars were. What looks like bad paint is
                                                          actually dirt.

                                                          > The other thing that threw me off was that these were advertised as
                                                          > UP. As far as I know Richard Wright never produced UP cars, although
                                                          > he did come out with CRI&P (Rocky Mountain Rocket), SOU (Southerner -
                                                          > Tennessean) and ATSF (The Chief) besides the many Limited Editions SP
                                                          > cars he specialized in for their many name trains. I was not aware,
                                                          > however, and have never seen anything on his producing cars for the
                                                          > SP Overland. I can only think that they must have been late
                                                          > production, unless as you say they may have been repainted. I was
                                                          > going to check out my collection of MHP cars after reading Garry's
                                                          > post, but thought I'd wait until hearing from you -- those cars are
                                                          > packed away in the attic and would not be too easy to find, buried
                                                          > among the rest of the collection. Walthers offered these cars from
                                                          > the late '70's into at least the mid '80's. By the way, if you're
                                                          > interested in SP literature, you might want to check out eBay for
                                                          > Wright's "America's Bicentennial Queen" -- his commemorative book on
                                                          > the #4449. Its really a 52 pg soft-cover book (sold for $5 back
                                                          > then); chock full of info & diagrams -- excellent. Regards, Ray
                                                          > \

                                                          Are you sure you're not thinking of the "Limited Editions" kits? They had
                                                          the cars you mentioned in the 80's. I don't see any any listings in my
                                                          Walther's catalogs for MHP after about 1972 or so.

                                                          As re: "Limited Editions", I bought a couple new when they were out and
                                                          never was able to finish them. The floor and lower sides were a one piece
                                                          extrusion, the roof and letterboards another, with silk screened plastic or
                                                          photo-etched window panels that fit between the two, with the two halves
                                                          only being held together by the ends, and the extrusions were so malformed
                                                          you could never get them lined up without major rebending. I would rate
                                                          them as being of the same quality as the "Arbor Models" pewter steam
                                                          locomotives.

                                                          Don

                                                          don.dellmann@...
                                                          http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                          moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                          moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                          moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                          co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 555 From: erieberk Date: 7/16/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: ID These cars?
                                                          Your right Don, I had temporarily confused Wright's MHP cars of the
                                                          late '60's or so with Anderson's later Limited Editions cars.
                                                          Somewhere (maybe on the 'Net) I read of the MHP cars also being
                                                          referred to as Limited Editions. Had I dug out and checked my MHP
                                                          cars I would have discovered this difference. Wright made some
                                                          really nice car kits in my opinion, in many roadnames and of course
                                                          SP (Daylight, Lark and Cascade). You may know of other SP name train
                                                          models he made from your '72 Walthers catalog. My Walthers series is
                                                          incomplete -- I'm missing '70 and '72. Don't see them listed in '71
                                                          or '73, but in '69 he also had NYC, PRR, GN, IC, UP ("City Of"), NP,
                                                          ATSF and CN. He had a real nice assortment of Pullman cars. All
                                                          kits came less decals -- as of '69, only SP Daylight and GN Empire
                                                          Builder decals were available from Wright and could be bought for a
                                                          complete train. Thanks for helping to jog my memory.
                                                          \
                                                          As for the Arbour Models kits you mentioned; while they sure don't
                                                          look too easy to put together, I was never aware that their quality
                                                          was not that good. I have a few of them -- C&O Allegheny, NKP Berk
                                                          and PRR J-1 (2), but never tried putting them together. Maybe its
                                                          just as well! I suppose I could try to fit a good running Varney
                                                          mechanism under them. Regards, Ray
                                                          \
                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...>
                                                          wrote:
                                                          >
                                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                                          > From: erieberk <erieberk@w...>
                                                          > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          > Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2005 2:08 AM
                                                          > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: ID These cars?
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > > Thank you Don, I thought as much after reading Garry's post. I
                                                          went
                                                          > > back and took another look at the photo you posted and realized I
                                                          > > missed seeing the tell-tale tabs found on the MHP's. What threw
                                                          me
                                                          > > off was that the roofs all had paint coming off and it appeared
                                                          as if
                                                          > > wood (American Beauty style) was showing through in those areas.
                                                          > > Looking at the photos again, I believe it may just be bad looking
                                                          > > metal showing through, although I have to purposely dismiss any
                                                          > > thought of it being wood as I look at them only to realize then
                                                          that
                                                          > > its actually metal. Still looks like wood if I don't scrutinize
                                                          it.
                                                          >
                                                          > They ARE wood, as I'm told the MHP cars were. What looks like bad
                                                          paint is
                                                          > actually dirt.
                                                          >
                                                          > > The other thing that threw me off was that these were advertised
                                                          as
                                                          > > UP. As far as I know Richard Wright never produced UP cars,
                                                          although
                                                          > > he did come out with CRI&P (Rocky Mountain Rocket), SOU
                                                          (Southerner -
                                                          > > Tennessean) and ATSF (The Chief) besides the many Limited
                                                          Editions SP
                                                          > > cars he specialized in for their many name trains. I was not
                                                          aware,
                                                          > > however, and have never seen anything on his producing cars for
                                                          the
                                                          > > SP Overland. I can only think that they must have been late
                                                          > > production, unless as you say they may have been repainted. I was
                                                          > > going to check out my collection of MHP cars after reading Garry's
                                                          > > post, but thought I'd wait until hearing from you -- those cars
                                                          are
                                                          > > packed away in the attic and would not be too easy to find, buried
                                                          > > among the rest of the collection. Walthers offered these cars
                                                          from
                                                          > > the late '70's into at least the mid '80's. By the way, if you're
                                                          > > interested in SP literature, you might want to check out eBay for
                                                          > > Wright's "America's Bicentennial Queen" -- his commemorative book
                                                          on
                                                          > > the #4449. Its really a 52 pg soft-cover book (sold for $5 back
                                                          > > then); chock full of info & diagrams -- excellent. Regards, Ray
                                                          > > \
                                                          >
                                                          > Are you sure you're not thinking of the "Limited Editions" kits?
                                                          They had
                                                          > the cars you mentioned in the 80's. I don't see any any listings
                                                          in my
                                                          > Walther's catalogs for MHP after about 1972 or so.
                                                          >
                                                          > As re: "Limited Editions", I bought a couple new when they were out
                                                          and
                                                          > never was able to finish them. The floor and lower sides were a
                                                          one piece
                                                          > extrusion, the roof and letterboards another, with silk screened
                                                          plastic or
                                                          > photo-etched window panels that fit between the two, with the two
                                                          halves
                                                          > only being held together by the ends, and the extrusions were so
                                                          malformed
                                                          > you could never get them lined up without major rebending. I would
                                                          rate
                                                          > them as being of the same quality as the "Arbor Models" pewter steam
                                                          > locomotives.
                                                          >
                                                          > Don
                                                          >
                                                          > don.dellmann@p...
                                                          > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                          > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > co-moderator: SCENERY@Y...
                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 556 From: Roger Aultman Date: 7/16/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: ID These cars?
                                                          I had a Arbour 2-8-4 that I managed to assemble and get running. While
                                                          running the soft metal valve gear jammed up in a hopeless mess, Put it
                                                          in a box and years latter eBayed it. Roger Aultman



                                                          > \
                                                          > As for the Arbour Models kits you mentioned; while they sure don't
                                                          > look too easy to put together, I was never aware that their quality
                                                          > was not that good. I have a few of them -- C&O Allegheny, NKP Berk
                                                          > and PRR J-1 (2), but never tried putting them together. Maybe its
                                                          > just as well! I suppose I could try to fit a good running Varney
                                                          > mechanism under them. Regards, Ray
                                                          > \
                                                          > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...>
                                                          > wrote:
                                                          >
                                                          >>----- Original Message -----
                                                          >>From: erieberk <erieberk@w...>
                                                          >>To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          >>Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2005 2:08 AM
                                                          >>Subject: [vintageHO] Re: ID These cars?
                                                          >>
                                                          >>
                                                          >>
                                                          >>>Thank you Don, I thought as much after reading Garry's post. I
                                                          >>
                                                          > went
                                                          >
                                                          >>>back and took another look at the photo you posted and realized I
                                                          >>>missed seeing the tell-tale tabs found on the MHP's. What threw
                                                          >>
                                                          > me
                                                          >
                                                          >>>off was that the roofs all had paint coming off and it appeared
                                                          >>
                                                          > as if
                                                          >
                                                          >>>wood (American Beauty style) was showing through in those areas.
                                                          >>>Looking at the photos again, I believe it may just be bad looking
                                                          >>>metal showing through, although I have to purposely dismiss any
                                                          >>>thought of it being wood as I look at them only to realize then
                                                          >>
                                                          > that
                                                          >
                                                          >>>its actually metal. Still looks like wood if I don't scrutinize
                                                          >>
                                                          > it.
                                                          >
                                                          >>They ARE wood, as I'm told the MHP cars were. What looks like bad
                                                          >
                                                          > paint is
                                                          >
                                                          >>actually dirt.
                                                          >>
                                                          >>
                                                          >>>The other thing that threw me off was that these were advertised
                                                          >>
                                                          > as
                                                          >
                                                          >>>UP. As far as I know Richard Wright never produced UP cars,
                                                          >>
                                                          > although
                                                          >
                                                          >>>he did come out with CRI&P (Rocky Mountain Rocket), SOU
                                                          >>
                                                          > (Southerner -
                                                          >
                                                          >>>Tennessean) and ATSF (The Chief) besides the many Limited
                                                          >>
                                                          > Editions SP
                                                          >
                                                          >>>cars he specialized in for their many name trains. I was not
                                                          >>
                                                          > aware,
                                                          >
                                                          >>>however, and have never seen anything on his producing cars for
                                                          >>
                                                          > the
                                                          >
                                                          >>>SP Overland. I can only think that they must have been late
                                                          >>>production, unless as you say they may have been repainted. I was
                                                          >>>going to check out my collection of MHP cars after reading Garry's
                                                          >>>post, but thought I'd wait until hearing from you -- those cars
                                                          >>
                                                          > are
                                                          >
                                                          >>>packed away in the attic and would not be too easy to find, buried
                                                          >>>among the rest of the collection. Walthers offered these cars
                                                          >>
                                                          > from
                                                          >
                                                          >>>the late '70's into at least the mid '80's. By the way, if you're
                                                          >>>interested in SP literature, you might want to check out eBay for
                                                          >>>Wright's "America's Bicentennial Queen" -- his commemorative book
                                                          >>
                                                          > on
                                                          >
                                                          >>>the #4449. Its really a 52 pg soft-cover book (sold for $5 back
                                                          >>>then); chock full of info & diagrams -- excellent. Regards, Ray
                                                          >>>\
                                                          >>
                                                          >>Are you sure you're not thinking of the "Limited Editions" kits?
                                                          >
                                                          > They had
                                                          >
                                                          >>the cars you mentioned in the 80's. I don't see any any listings
                                                          >
                                                          > in my
                                                          >
                                                          >>Walther's catalogs for MHP after about 1972 or so.
                                                          >>
                                                          >>As re: "Limited Editions", I bought a couple new when they were out
                                                          >
                                                          > and
                                                          >
                                                          >>never was able to finish them. The floor and lower sides were a
                                                          >
                                                          > one piece
                                                          >
                                                          >>extrusion, the roof and letterboards another, with silk screened
                                                          >
                                                          > plastic or
                                                          >
                                                          >>photo-etched window panels that fit between the two, with the two
                                                          >
                                                          > halves
                                                          >
                                                          >>only being held together by the ends, and the extrusions were so
                                                          >
                                                          > malformed
                                                          >
                                                          >>you could never get them lined up without major rebending. I would
                                                          >
                                                          > rate
                                                          >
                                                          >>them as being of the same quality as the "Arbor Models" pewter steam
                                                          >>locomotives.
                                                          >>
                                                          >>Don
                                                          >>
                                                          >>don.dellmann@p...
                                                          >>http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                          >>moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                          >>moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                          >>moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                          >>co-moderator: SCENERY@Y...
                                                          >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                          >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >


                                                          --
                                                          http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

                                                          Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 557 From: erieberk Date: 7/16/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: ID These cars?
                                                          Okay Roger, thanks for the warning. I guess if I do attempt to
                                                          assemble one, I could at least try using Varney or Bowser valve
                                                          gear. Ray
                                                          \
                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Roger Aultman <raul@n...> wrote:
                                                          > I had a Arbour 2-8-4 that I managed to assemble and get running.
                                                          While
                                                          > running the soft metal valve gear jammed up in a hopeless mess, Put
                                                          it
                                                          > in a box and years latter eBayed it. Roger Aultman
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > >
                                                          \
                                                          > > As for the Arbour Models kits you mentioned; while they sure
                                                          don't
                                                          > > look too easy to put together, I was never aware that their
                                                          quality
                                                          > > was not that good. I have a few of them -- C&O Allegheny, NKP
                                                          Berk
                                                          > > and PRR J-1 (2), but never tried putting them together. Maybe
                                                          its
                                                          > > just as well! I suppose I could try to fit a good running Varney
                                                          > > mechanism under them. Regards,
                                                          Ray
                                                          > >
                                                          \
                                                          > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "don.dellmann"
                                                          <don.dellmann@p...>
                                                          > > wrote:
                                                          > >
                                                          > >>----- Original Message -----
                                                          > >>From: erieberk <erieberk@w...>
                                                          > >>To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          > >>Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2005 2:08 AM
                                                          > >>Subject: [vintageHO] Re: ID These cars?
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>>Thank you Don, I thought as much after reading Garry's post. I
                                                          > >>
                                                          > > went
                                                          > >
                                                          > >>>back and took another look at the photo you posted and realized I
                                                          > >>>missed seeing the tell-tale tabs found on the MHP's. What threw
                                                          > >>
                                                          > > me
                                                          > >
                                                          > >>>off was that the roofs all had paint coming off and it appeared
                                                          > >>
                                                          > > as if
                                                          > >
                                                          > >>>wood (American Beauty style) was showing through in those areas.
                                                          > >>>Looking at the photos again, I believe it may just be bad looking
                                                          > >>>metal showing through, although I have to purposely dismiss any
                                                          > >>>thought of it being wood as I look at them only to realize then
                                                          > >>
                                                          > > that
                                                          > >
                                                          > >>>its actually metal. Still looks like wood if I don't scrutinize
                                                          > >>
                                                          > > it.
                                                          > >
                                                          > >>They ARE wood, as I'm told the MHP cars were. What looks like
                                                          bad
                                                          > >
                                                          > > paint is
                                                          > >
                                                          > >>actually dirt.
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>>The other thing that threw me off was that these were advertised
                                                          > >>
                                                          > > as
                                                          > >
                                                          > >>>UP. As far as I know Richard Wright never produced UP cars,
                                                          > >>
                                                          > > although
                                                          > >
                                                          > >>>he did come out with CRI&P (Rocky Mountain Rocket), SOU
                                                          > >>
                                                          > > (Southerner -
                                                          > >
                                                          > >>>Tennessean) and ATSF (The Chief) besides the many Limited
                                                          > >>
                                                          > > Editions SP
                                                          > >
                                                          > >>>cars he specialized in for their many name trains. I was not
                                                          > >>
                                                          > > aware,
                                                          > >
                                                          > >>>however, and have never seen anything on his producing cars for
                                                          > >>
                                                          > > the
                                                          > >
                                                          > >>>SP Overland. I can only think that they must have been late
                                                          > >>>production, unless as you say they may have been repainted. I
                                                          was
                                                          > >>>going to check out my collection of MHP cars after reading
                                                          Garry's
                                                          > >>>post, but thought I'd wait until hearing from you -- those cars
                                                          > >>
                                                          > > are
                                                          > >
                                                          > >>>packed away in the attic and would not be too easy to find,
                                                          buried
                                                          > >>>among the rest of the collection. Walthers offered these cars
                                                          > >>
                                                          > > from
                                                          > >
                                                          > >>>the late '70's into at least the mid '80's. By the way, if
                                                          you're
                                                          > >>>interested in SP literature, you might want to check out eBay for
                                                          > >>>Wright's "America's Bicentennial Queen" -- his commemorative
                                                          book
                                                          > >>
                                                          > > on
                                                          > >
                                                          > >>>the #4449. Its really a 52 pg soft-cover book (sold for $5 back
                                                          > >>>then); chock full of info & diagrams -- excellent. Regards, Ray
                                                          > >>>\
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>Are you sure you're not thinking of the "Limited Editions" kits?
                                                          > >
                                                          > > They had
                                                          > >
                                                          > >>the cars you mentioned in the 80's. I don't see any any listings
                                                          > >
                                                          > > in my
                                                          > >
                                                          > >>Walther's catalogs for MHP after about 1972 or so.
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>As re: "Limited Editions", I bought a couple new when they were
                                                          out
                                                          > >
                                                          > > and
                                                          > >
                                                          > >>never was able to finish them. The floor and lower sides were a
                                                          > >
                                                          > > one piece
                                                          > >
                                                          > >>extrusion, the roof and letterboards another, with silk screened
                                                          > >
                                                          > > plastic or
                                                          > >
                                                          > >>photo-etched window panels that fit between the two, with the two
                                                          > >
                                                          > > halves
                                                          > >
                                                          > >>only being held together by the ends, and the extrusions were so
                                                          > >
                                                          > > malformed
                                                          > >
                                                          > >>you could never get them lined up without major rebending. I
                                                          would
                                                          > >
                                                          > > rate
                                                          > >
                                                          > >>them as being of the same quality as the "Arbor Models" pewter
                                                          steam
                                                          > >>locomotives.
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>Don
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>don.dellmann@p...
                                                          > >>http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                          > >>moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > >>moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > >>moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > >>co-moderator: SCENERY@Y...
                                                          > >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                          > >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > --
                                                          > http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm
                                                          >
                                                          > Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 558 From: jim gerstley Date: 7/16/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: ID These cars?
                                                          These are MHP cars, and the MHP cars did have wood roofs and
                                                          underbodies,metal ends and sides.
                                                          Wright made cars for the Daylight [his first train], the Lark,
                                                          Cascade, Golden State, Sunset, Chief, Empire Builder, North
                                                          Coast Ltd. He also made a number of UP cars. I have a [nearly
                                                          complete] train of the '38 COLA, except for the power car. He
                                                          made all 3 of the 11 bedroom cars incl. the STAR and PLACID
                                                          series; OCEAN cars, WESTERN sleepers, AMERICAN,5 bdm
                                                          lounge, chair cars. And the SP 10-6, diner, lounge and coffee
                                                          shop cars could be used as SP supplied equipment on the
                                                          Golden State, COSF, and Overland. The Sunset 10-6 is the
                                                          same as the UP PACIFIC cars with different car name plates
                                                          on the side. Don't recall if he ever did the SUN or ALPINE cars,
                                                          any of the UP diner/lounge cars. He did several of the UP head
                                                          end cars.
                                                          In the '60s and 70s, Wright supplied the cars as kits. There
                                                          were a few people who assembled and painted them for him
                                                          and then sold them as an assembled model, for not much more
                                                          than the price of the kit, as I recall. Later, Wright started making
                                                          cars again and assembling them, complete with the inner
                                                          vestibule bulkhead this time [missing from the original kits]. He
                                                          also made some cars on request or allowed some modellers to
                                                          make specific cars for specific trains. Which is how I ended up
                                                          with a '38 Century.
                                                          Jim Gerstley
                                                          D & G Models

                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "erieberk" <erieberk@w...>
                                                          wrote:
                                                          The other thing that threw me off was that these were advertised
                                                          as
                                                          > UP. As far as I know Richard Wright never produced UP cars,
                                                          although
                                                          > he did come out with CRI&P (Rocky Mountain Rocket), SOU
                                                          (Southerner -
                                                          > Tennessean) and ATSF (The Chief) besides the many Limited
                                                          Editions SP
                                                          > cars he specialized in for their many name trains. I was not
                                                          aware,
                                                          > however, and have never seen anything on his producing cars
                                                          for the
                                                          > SP Overland.
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 559 From: Don RIley Date: 8/25/2005
                                                          Subject: kinda slow here lately.
                                                          So have of you gotten more relics? My latest were to NP boxcars with
                                                          metal floors and brake detail they came in a yellow box with an Alco PA
                                                          on it.

                                                          Stemaengine 4449
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 560 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 8/25/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: kinda slow here lately.
                                                          Hi Don,
                                                           I've been pretty busy this last month.
                                                           I did come across a few oldies though.
                                                          I found an old Varney (I think) 50' double door box car.
                                                           I also bought a Hobbyline Berkshire kit. It came with a second one that the owner was trying to power. I plan to finish that project and also assemble and paint the static model.
                                                           I also came across an American flyer HO transformer car (drop center flat car) that looks interesting.

                                                          Don RIley <steamengine4449us@...> wrote:
                                                          So have of you gotten more relics? My latest were to NP boxcars with
                                                          metal floors and brake detail they came in a yellow box with an Alco PA
                                                          on it.

                                                          Stemaengine 4449




                                                          __________________________________________________
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                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 561 From: Wobbly913 Date: 8/25/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: kinda slow here lately.
                                                          Don
                                                           
                                                          Last Sunday I bought an Athearn  UP F7A .  It was listed as a dummy with hi-f frame and driven trucks.
                                                           
                                                          Wobbly913

                                                          Don RIley <steamengine4449us@...> wrote:
                                                          So have of you gotten more relics? My latest were to NP boxcars with
                                                          metal floors and brake detail they came in a yellow box with an Alco PA
                                                          on it.

                                                          Stemaengine 4449



                                                          Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page

                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 562 From: Don Riley Date: 8/25/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: kinda slow here lately.
                                                          Cool! I have the SP equal to it.
                                                           
                                                          Steamengine 4449

                                                          Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> wrote:
                                                          Don
                                                           
                                                          Last Sunday I bought an Athearn  UP F7A .  It was listed as a dummy with hi-f frame and driven trucks.
                                                           
                                                          Wobbly913

                                                          __________________________________________________
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                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 563 From: Don Riley Date: 8/25/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: kinda slow here lately.
                                                          Hi Ray,
                                                           
                                                          Reads like you got some good stuff! Some of those old cars can leave one scratching there head wondering what they are!
                                                           
                                                          Good luck with the Birks!
                                                           
                                                          That American flyer cars must be really large! Every so often a low center flat comes through here (Roseville CA). Infact one was here today. They are a neat sight!!
                                                           
                                                          Don

                                                          Ray Marinaccio <raymarinaccio@...> wrote:
                                                          Hi Don,
                                                           I've been pretty busy this last month.
                                                           I did come across a few oldies though.
                                                          I found an old Varney (I think) 50' double door box car.
                                                           I also bought a Hobbyline Berkshire kit. It came with a second one that the owner was trying to power. I plan to finish that project and also assemble and paint the static model.
                                                           I also came across an American flyer HO transformer car (drop center flat car) that looks interesting.

                                                          __________________________________________________
                                                          Do You Yahoo!?
                                                          Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                          http://mail.yahoo.com

                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 564 From: Imp Ster Date: 8/26/2005
                                                          Subject: yup, it's quiet... TOO quiet.
                                                          hmm... well, i chanced upon a big boxe of HO 'junque' at a
                                                          local "mystery" shop (vintage coins, mags, LPs, soda bottles etc), and
                                                          lo & beholden, there was a classic Mantua (Tyco issue) 4-6-2 on top of
                                                          the pile, which had a couple of mint AHM styrene kits still in box, as
                                                          well as a smattering of Tyco and AHM rolling stock.

                                                          ( i say 'beholden', because i couldnt afford the $$ to seal the deal,
                                                          so instead i worked out a combination Lay-Away and odd-job deal to
                                                          insure i go home happy with the Pacific... the rest i can take or
                                                          leave.)

                                                          the Pacific isnt as old as i like, it has the plastic cab and pilot (as
                                                          opposed to one that i restored which has full metal cab and pilot), but
                                                          at least it has the full Walsharts valve gear.
                                                          from what i could see, there was hardly any wear on the brushes or
                                                          commuter either.

                                                          ...
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 565 From: don.dellmann Date: 8/26/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: kinda slow here lately.
                                                          Picked up another half a dozen metal streamliners, (3 Blue Lines, a couple
                                                          Herkimers and an aluminum Mantua baggage that matches my KMT's) but I
                                                          haven't said anything because I've been too busy to do anything with them.

                                                          The lists are all pretty slow this time of year, should pick up in fall as
                                                          we're driven back indoors.

                                                          Don

                                                          don.dellmann@...
                                                          http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                          moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                          moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                          moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                          co-moderator: SCENERY@...
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                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO


                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                          From: Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...>
                                                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 10:31 PM
                                                          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] kinda slow here lately.


                                                          > Don
                                                          >
                                                          > Last Sunday I bought an Athearn UP F7A . It was listed as a dummy with
                                                          hi-f frame and driven trucks.
                                                          >
                                                          > Wobbly913
                                                          >
                                                          > Don RIley <steamengine4449us@...> wrote:
                                                          > So have of you gotten more relics? My latest were to NP boxcars with
                                                          > metal floors and brake detail they came in a yellow box with an Alco PA
                                                          > on it.
                                                          >
                                                          > Stemaengine 4449
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > SPONSORED LINKS
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > ---------------------------------
                                                          > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > Ho scale train sets Ho scale .
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > ---------------------------------
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > ---------------------------------
                                                          > Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 566 From: raymarinaccio Date: 8/27/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: kinda slow here lately.
                                                          Here's a link to some photos of the Berkshire project.

                                                          http://2guyzandsumtrains.com/Forums/viewtopic/p=6519.html#6519

                                                          I also came across a few Globe F7A and B units and an Athearn F7a
                                                          Hi-F. The Athearn is an SP black widow. I am thinking of painting a
                                                          couple of the Globe B units to go with it and hunt for another A unit.
                                                          our SP collection is growing. My son has been collecting Daylight
                                                          cars and has an F7ABA set and I just got an Athearn PA1 and a chassis
                                                          for the PA1 shell I had.
                                                          I'm working out a deal with my brother to buy his HO collection
                                                          which is mostly SP, which includes a Bachmann GS-4 an Athearn GP9,
                                                          GP35 and a Kato RSD-?.


                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Don Riley <steamengine4449us@y...>
                                                          wrote:
                                                          > Hi Ray,
                                                          >
                                                          > Reads like you got some good stuff! Some of those old cars can
                                                          leave one scratching there head wondering what they are!
                                                          >
                                                          > Good luck with the Birks!
                                                          >
                                                          > That American flyer cars must be really large! Every so often a low
                                                          center flat comes through here (Roseville CA). Infact one was here
                                                          today. They are a neat sight!!
                                                          >
                                                          > Don
                                                          >
                                                          > Ray Marinaccio <raymarinaccio@y...> wrote:
                                                          > Hi Don,
                                                          > I've been pretty busy this last month.
                                                          > I did come across a few oldies though.
                                                          > I found an old Varney (I think) 50' double door box car.
                                                          > I also bought a Hobbyline Berkshire kit. It came with a second one
                                                          that the owner was trying to power. I plan to finish that project and
                                                          also assemble and paint the static model.
                                                          > I also came across an American flyer HO transformer car (drop
                                                          center flat car) that looks interesting.
                                                          >
                                                          > __________________________________________________
                                                          > Do You Yahoo!?
                                                          > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                          > http://mail.yahoo.com
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 567 From: Imp Ster Date: 8/27/2005
                                                          Subject: Last Call for a Lost Art - All Aboard!
                                                          greetings all -

                                                          with the discovery of an old empty warehouse available for lease, i
                                                          am one step closer to establishing a scale foundry/factory, dedicated
                                                          especialy to fine-standards duplication of vintage die-cast and lost
                                                          wax details, body parts and drive-train components (diesel & steam
                                                          bodies, frames and truck sideframes, steam loco wheels, cabs, pilots,
                                                          cylinder blocks, etc.)... also, lost wax turnout frogs and points,
                                                          and crossing diamonds with complete spike and plate detail, are
                                                          another idea.

                                                          my personal focus is on classic Athearn amd Mantua, as well as lost
                                                          MDC items such as cast underframes, Olden Tyme 30' boxcar bodies with
                                                          separate and operating doors, the Mantua operating hoppers etc.
                                                          if i can get the technical support, i will then obsesively pursue
                                                          duplication of the Central Valley line of trucks, (especialy the
                                                          fully-sprung 6-whl Buckeyes which are a personal favorite - i have
                                                          only one.)

                                                          (note: i dont give a fig about copyright issues as all these items
                                                          are long deceased - even if Central Valley still exists as a styrene -
                                                          Delrin ghost of its former corporate self, the classic patterns are
                                                          long out of patent. goody for me!)

                                                          with modern techniques of zinc manufacture and treatment, the old
                                                          issues of expansion are moot.
                                                          plus, i wish to ramp up the legacy quality of these products by
                                                          selective extra plating and special alloys.
                                                          also, i wish to offer lost wax brass versions of many items which
                                                          exist in zinc, such as boiler bodies and truck frames etc.
                                                          i have done a bit of lost wax work in my time, but lacking the proper
                                                          equipment, nothing ever came of it.

                                                          if anybody is interested in joining my efforts, with ideas, technical
                                                          expertise, or to donate hi-resolution scanns of items to be archived,
                                                          please feel free to contact me offlist (email or Yahoo IM) to discuss
                                                          the project.
                                                          eventualy i would like to aquire a comprehensive database of scanned
                                                          images and blueprints of classic items and parts, with a specific eye
                                                          of economic mass-reproduction to serve the vintage collectors and
                                                          operators.

                                                          cheers, da imp

                                                          (ps, certain of these items will be slightly improved in design to
                                                          protect against the deficiencies we have all come to know and
                                                          hate.... such as, extra structural ribs in body castings to prevent
                                                          warping over time and add strength, fillets along internal seams
                                                          instead of right-angle corners subject to stress fractures, etc etc.,
                                                          as well as bringing them into line with current NMRA standards)

                                                          ...
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 568 From: Don Riley Date: 8/27/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: kinda slow here lately.
                                                          Cool! That is a very cool Birkshire!!
                                                          I have Globe F7s. I have an ABA set like new in Globe red boxes. Plus an ABBA Globe set that are assembled. The As in the second set work but one is a mess. Seems the last owner was a little hard on it! The other A from that set works well as do the dummy bs. The Bs have old pwer wheelsets on them. They work much better then the plastic wheelsets that came with Plastic framed engines. I also have a band drive F7a and dummy b and two modern As. SP had tons of F7s and so do I!! (yes those are all Blackwidow!)
                                                           
                                                          When did they first offer SP Daylight stuff anyway? I have never seen a Daylight Globe or early Athearn several piece body kit. Also I have never seen a band driven Daylight F7. I have an ABA set of modern Daylight F7s. Learned those motors do not work well together! The second A is a dummy and I generally run AB or AA with the cars. Sometimes I run them ABA but they do not stay together well.
                                                           
                                                          I also have a Daylight Bachman GS4. (and a War Baby one) those run great!! Well as long as your track is flat they do anyway.
                                                           
                                                          I have a bloody nosed Band powered GP9. I am not sure that is the right shell though. This because Bloody nose did not come till 58. So if it right it is one of the VERY last band powered runs made. I also have one of the old dummys with plastic trucks that snap in. And yes I have a modern one and they all have the same number! 3702. (all bloody nose)

                                                          raymarinaccio <raymarinaccio@...> wrote:
                                                          Here's a link to some photos of the Berkshire project.

                                                          http://2guyzandsumtrains.com/Forums/viewtopic/p=6519.html#6519

                                                            I also came across a few Globe F7A and B units and an Athearn F7a
                                                          Hi-F. The Athearn is an SP black widow. I am thinking of painting a
                                                          couple of the Globe B units to go with it and hunt for another A unit.
                                                          our SP collection is growing. My son has been collecting Daylight
                                                          cars and has an F7ABA set and I just got an Athearn PA1 and a chassis
                                                          for the PA1 shell I had.
                                                          I'm working out a deal with my brother to buy his HO collection
                                                          which is mostly SP, which includes a Bachmann GS-4 an Athearn GP9,
                                                          GP35 and a Kato RSD-?.

                                                          __________________________________________________
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                                                          Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 569 From: Imp Ster Date: 8/28/2005
                                                          Subject: "Yes, We Have No Shortcuts Here!"
                                                          caution, this is a rant !

                                                          a few more things regarding that whole "Legacy" idea.

                                                          somebody (nobody here) was quibbling something about as how
                                                          modern 'reproductions' leave something to be desired, AKA MTH O scale
                                                          items.
                                                          i recently spent a few months working at a certain model train shop,
                                                          and got to examine any number of vintage and modern Lionel, as well as
                                                          every last hunk of steam engine junk that MTH makes.
                                                          why do i call it junk?
                                                          because its JUNK!
                                                          oh sure, the paint is great, the details adequate... until you take a
                                                          closer look at the average drivers.
                                                          even with relatively unlimited development funds and facilities, the
                                                          dweebs in Design couldnt seem to figure out how to make a scale-wheel
                                                          base model, so they - get this - made center driving wheels that had
                                                          their inner rims reduced to clear the flanges of the outer drivers!!
                                                          (insert looks of incredulity, choking sounds of suppressed laughter,
                                                          snorts of disgust, etc.)
                                                          and they have the noive to advertise their rolling stock trucks
                                                          as "sprung", but the sideframes are RIGID and the springs are simply
                                                          stuck in for looks! (do people actualy fall for this? - i guess so!
                                                          disgusting!)

                                                          and we all know what happend to Lionel in the post-Rock-Head/Star
                                                          era... 100% tanksville, due to similar cheap shots in manufacture.

                                                          well, thats not what i'm about, folks.
                                                          indeed, like Tom Sawyer seeking the path less traveled, if theres any
                                                          way i can improve a design, i will.
                                                          after 35+ years working and dealing with trains of all scales, i've got
                                                          a few ideas and a few vendettas.
                                                          so, if and when you ever see any item that may come from the imp's
                                                          factory, you can be sure that no expense or effort was spared to
                                                          create, or re-create, that item.

                                                          to quote a relevant thought, as a certain Gourmand was wont to say, "We
                                                          will sell no Wine before it's Time."

                                                          (rant ends)

                                                          ...
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 570 From: Imp Ster Date: 8/30/2005
                                                          Subject: a sampling of da imp's trivia
                                                          greets all...

                                                          members of VintageHO are hereby invited to visit the Files area -
                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files - for a peek at da
                                                          imp's world, and a few musical favorites and sound wavs.

                                                          note - save the 'loops' to Windows Media Player original(classic)
                                                          format and set to play continously.
                                                          if you have the later versions of WinMedPlay, look for the option to
                                                          use the classic skin and find playback settings under View, Options.
                                                          select "open a New Media Player for each File" and you can run
                                                          several sound files simultaneously, mixing them in and out as desired.

                                                          i just got a real sweet Sony digicam donated to my archiving effort,
                                                          so will soon post high-resolution views of the buss layout and other
                                                          items of interest.
                                                          (as soon as i figger out thishyer instruction booklet, that is...
                                                          harrumph.)
                                                          - with any luck, i can also use it as a web-cam, so perhaps you can
                                                          soon tune into my workbench and see (and hear) me a-cussing @, and a-
                                                          working on, da RR!

                                                          cheers

                                                          ...
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 571 From: Don Riley Date: 8/30/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: a sampling of da imp's trivia
                                                          So the layout is actually in that old Dodge bus? Does that Dodge run? Same for the old car next to it?
                                                          You got a ton of stuff into a small space! Indeed the biggest problem is always lack of space!! I have cabinets and tables full of models along with quite a few boxed on a shelf in my closet.
                                                           
                                                          Steamengine 4449

                                                          Imp Ster <iimpster@...> wrote:
                                                          greets all...

                                                          members of VintageHO are hereby invited to visit the Files area -
                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files - for a peek at da
                                                          imp's world, and a few musical favorites and sound wavs.

                                                          note - save the 'loops' to Windows Media Player original(classic)
                                                          format and set to play continously.
                                                          if you have the later versions of WinMedPlay, look for the option to
                                                          use the classic skin and find playback settings under View, Options.
                                                          select "open a New Media Player for each File" and you can run
                                                          several sound files simultaneously, mixing them in and out as desired.

                                                          i just got a real sweet Sony digicam donated to my archiving effort,
                                                          so will soon post high-resolution views of the buss layout and other
                                                          items of interest.
                                                          (as soon as i figger out thishyer instruction booklet, that is...
                                                          harrumph.)
                                                          - with any luck, i can also use it as a web-cam, so perhaps you can
                                                          soon tune into my workbench and see (and hear) me a-cussing @, and a-
                                                          working on, da RR!

                                                          cheers


                                                          Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page

                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 572 From: erieberk Date: 8/31/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: a sampling of da imp's trivia
                                                          Hi IMP, Just got done brousing your files. You sure did cram a lot
                                                          of stuff into one area. Looks like you have a lot of operational
                                                          abilities going by the layout schematic for the long narrow area;
                                                          what is your minumum radius? The UP gon sequence is neat -- noticed
                                                          you took a little modeler's license with having 1880's coaches on the
                                                          same layout as a GP-7 (or 9). Those licenses sure do come in handy!
                                                          I like the banjo version of the "Wabash Cannonball". I of course
                                                          have Roy Acuff's version of it, but have never heard it played quite
                                                          this way. I have a number of Jimmy Rodgers' (the "Singing Brakeman")
                                                          recordings which I enjoy and which I've used to make several tapes,
                                                          along with other railroad songs, to play when I show R.R. slide
                                                          programs. Thanks for sharing that with us. Regards, Ray W.
                                                          \
                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Imp Ster" <iimpster@y...> wrote:
                                                          > greets all...
                                                          >
                                                          > members of VintageHO are hereby invited to visit the Files area -
                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files - for a peek at da
                                                          > imp's world, and a few musical favorites and sound wavs.
                                                          >
                                                          > note - save the 'loops' to Windows Media Player original(classic)
                                                          > format and set to play continously.
                                                          > if you have the later versions of WinMedPlay, look for the option
                                                          to
                                                          > use the classic skin and find playback settings under View, Options.
                                                          > select "open a New Media Player for each File" and you can run
                                                          > several sound files simultaneously, mixing them in and out as
                                                          desired.
                                                          >
                                                          > i just got a real sweet Sony digicam donated to my archiving
                                                          effort,
                                                          > so will soon post high-resolution views of the buss layout and
                                                          other
                                                          > items of interest.
                                                          > (as soon as i figger out thishyer instruction booklet, that is...
                                                          > harrumph.)
                                                          > - with any luck, i can also use it as a web-cam, so perhaps you can
                                                          > soon tune into my workbench and see (and hear) me a-cussing @, and
                                                          a-
                                                          > working on, da RR!
                                                          >
                                                          > cheers
                                                          >
                                                          > ...
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 573 From: don.dellmann Date: 8/31/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: a sampling of da imp's trivia
                                                          That "old car"? That "old car" is a Continental Mark IV! I'd take it (but
                                                          I'd rather have a Mark II or Mark III)

                                                          Don

                                                          don.dellmann@...
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                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                          From: Don Riley <steamengine4449us@...>
                                                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 11:36 PM
                                                          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] a sampling of da imp's trivia


                                                          > So the layout is actually in that old Dodge bus? Does that Dodge run? Same
                                                          for the old car next to it?
                                                          > You got a ton of stuff into a small space! Indeed the biggest problem is
                                                          always lack of space!! I have cabinets and tables full of models along with
                                                          quite a few boxed on a shelf in my closet.
                                                          >
                                                          > Steamengine 4449
                                                          >
                                                          > Imp Ster <iimpster@...> wrote:
                                                          > greets all...
                                                          >
                                                          > members of VintageHO are hereby invited to visit the Files area -
                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files - for a peek at da
                                                          > imp's world, and a few musical favorites and sound wavs.
                                                          >
                                                          > note - save the 'loops' to Windows Media Player original(classic)
                                                          > format and set to play continously.
                                                          > if you have the later versions of WinMedPlay, look for the option to
                                                          > use the classic skin and find playback settings under View, Options.
                                                          > select "open a New Media Player for each File" and you can run
                                                          > several sound files simultaneously, mixing them in and out as desired.
                                                          >
                                                          > i just got a real sweet Sony digicam donated to my archiving effort,
                                                          > so will soon post high-resolution views of the buss layout and other
                                                          > items of interest.
                                                          > (as soon as i figger out thishyer instruction booklet, that is...
                                                          > harrumph.)
                                                          > - with any luck, i can also use it as a web-cam, so perhaps you can
                                                          > soon tune into my workbench and see (and hear) me a-cussing @, and a-
                                                          > working on, da RR!
                                                          >
                                                          > cheers
                                                          >
                                                          > ---------------------------------
                                                          > Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 574 From: Imp Ster Date: 8/31/2005
                                                          Subject: the last bus to New Orleans
                                                          yup, the ol buss still runs, i keep her ready for action.
                                                          (original Dodge 354 Hemi Power-Giant V-8 replaced in '84 with a 1976
                                                          Ford 390, C-6 auto, which ran like a top until 1989, lost a valve guide
                                                          in the middle of Wyo desert, found a 1966 390 in Casper Wyo, switched
                                                          blocks but kept the '76 electronic ignition and C-6 of course...
                                                          with the impending disposal of the old estate here, it wont be long
                                                          before my baling-wire and chewing gum is put to the test.
                                                          (however, if the economic fallout from Katrina has any positive effect,
                                                          it will be to deep-6 the financing for the yuppie scum developers - who
                                                          knows, this tragedy may have a silver living for me at least... we'l
                                                          see.)

                                                          not really that much in the Files here at VinageHO; you should see my
                                                          CPU... plumb full of railroady sounds and pix.
                                                          shortly i begin the task of moving the CPU into the buss... will need
                                                          to build a secure (mouse-insect-proof) cubby to protect the wiring,
                                                          etc... already have a couple of small 600-watt air conditioners to keep
                                                          things cool and dry.

                                                          sorry that animated GIF is so short and slow... now that i have a
                                                          decent digicam, look for some real quality animated GIFs of more recent
                                                          operations soon.
                                                          and a web-cam array of buss Ry operations and projects is also planned.

                                                          vague plans are to relocate the buss to my dad's area in the Black
                                                          Hills, nearby the 1880 Train right-o-way.
                                                          meanwhile, the warehouse idea i spoke of is here in Va, and is only a
                                                          stepping-stone to bigger things.

                                                          cheers

                                                          ...
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 575 From: Imp Ster Date: 8/31/2005
                                                          Subject: the $100 Lincoln, and other tales
                                                          um.. the '72 Mark was taken while i was gone, by hungry Mexi-
                                                          salvagers a few years ago.(no offense meant to any here of Mexi
                                                          ethnicity.)
                                                          shortly after that, the SWAT dropped by and took a few shots at the
                                                          buss during their operation to "secure" the house and grounds.
                                                          i still have a (repaired) Athearn 40' box with a half-moon hole in
                                                          the side, where a tear-gas shell impacted.
                                                          2 other shells at that locaton blew out a section of 2 lines of flex
                                                          track and knocked an MDC ore car into the mountain scenery; i didnt
                                                          find it til months later.
                                                          the thing that amazes me is, with all the trains i had sitting on the
                                                          system at the time, only those 2 cars were hit; the rest of the
                                                          shells went under or over the layout shelving, and as the vent fan
                                                          was running during the entire operation, no tear gas residue settled
                                                          in any part of the buss.
                                                          (the house was not so fortunate.)
                                                          all that happend back in '97, before i had ever touched a computer.
                                                          ( i got this one new in '98 and havent upgraded a thing.)
                                                          you can find some of my writings on those times in my Files at Goat
                                                          Friends.
                                                          however, be warned, it is not pleasant stuff to read, and i prefer
                                                          not to dwell on those sad events.

                                                          i used to sorta collect Marks - i was all shook up over the 460
                                                          monster V-8, and always wanted to put such an engine in my buss. (the
                                                          390 is a little small for serious tonnage)
                                                          it started when i got a 1970 M-III for my 18th B-Day (..it was only 5
                                                          years old at the time, near mint), and in 1993 i worked for a local
                                                          crack-head garage for a month to aquire a 1974 with factory sunroof.
                                                          the '72 only cost me $100, as a local imbecile was moving up to SUV-
                                                          ville and didnt have room for it, i drove it for several years.
                                                          then somehow my mom went semi-senile and sent the '70 to the scrap
                                                          and the '74 to the charity scammers.
                                                          (the '72 was hidden in the old warehouse here, and escaped her
                                                          wrath... it remained as a viable mode of transportation for a few
                                                          more years)

                                                          ...
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 576 From: Don Riley Date: 9/4/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: the $100 Lincoln, and other tales
                                                          DANG!!! Things have been really hard for you!!! Hope they stay better now!
                                                           
                                                          Steamengine 4449

                                                          Imp Ster <iimpster@...> wrote:
                                                          um.. the '72 Mark was taken while i was gone, by hungry Mexi-
                                                          salvagers a few years ago.(no offense meant to any here of Mexi
                                                          ethnicity.)
                                                          shortly after that, the SWAT dropped by and took a few shots at the
                                                          buss during their operation to "secure" the house and grounds.
                                                          i still have a (repaired) Athearn 40' box with a half-moon hole in
                                                          the side, where a tear-gas shell impacted.
                                                          2 other shells at that locaton blew out a section of 2 lines of flex
                                                          track and knocked an MDC ore car into the mountain scenery; i didnt
                                                          find it til months later.
                                                          the thing that amazes me is, with all the trains i had sitting on the
                                                          system at the time, only those 2 cars were hit; the rest of the
                                                          shells went under or over the layout shelving, and as the vent fan
                                                          was running during the entire operation, no tear gas residue settled
                                                          in any part of the buss.
                                                          (the house was not so fortunate.)
                                                          all that happend back in '97, before i had ever touched a computer.
                                                          ( i got this one new in '98 and havent upgraded a thing.)
                                                          you can find some of my writings on those times in my Files at Goat
                                                          Friends.
                                                          however, be warned, it is not pleasant stuff to read, and i prefer
                                                          not to dwell on those sad events.

                                                          i used to sorta collect Marks - i was all shook up over the 460
                                                          monster V-8, and always wanted to put such an engine in my buss. (the
                                                          390 is a little small for serious tonnage)
                                                          it started when i got a 1970 M-III for my 18th B-Day (..it was only 5
                                                          years old at the time, near mint), and in 1993 i worked for a local
                                                          crack-head garage for a month to aquire a 1974 with factory sunroof.
                                                          the '72 only cost me $100, as a local imbecile was moving up to SUV-
                                                          ville and didnt have room for it, i drove it for several years.
                                                          then somehow my mom went semi-senile and sent the '70 to the scrap
                                                          and the '74 to the charity scammers.
                                                          (the '72 was hidden in the old warehouse here, and escaped her
                                                          wrath... it remained as a viable mode of transportation for a few
                                                          more years)

                                                          __________________________________________________
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                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 577 From: Imp Ster Date: 9/15/2005
                                                          Subject: a few samples of my work
                                                          see Links here for URLz to samples of my musical compositions.
                                                          this is being slowly archived at a GeoCities host and may be un-
                                                          available from time to time as bandwidth allotment is exceeded, if so
                                                          just try again later.
                                                          note, these are simple ".wav" Files.
                                                          if you like vintage atmosphere around your HO scale cathedrals and
                                                          chapels, these could be just the thing... and they are all original,
                                                          unpublished (until now among my few web friends) material.

                                                          text copy of URLz so far, if they do not open or Yahoo has truncated
                                                          the URL, see active links at

                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/links , in my Folder there.

                                                          ---

                                                          http://www.geocities.com/iimpster/Bunnai-Fair.wav

                                                          http://www.geocities.com/iimpster/Prelude-To-An-Afternoon-With-
                                                          Carrillia.wav

                                                          http://www.geocities.com/iimpster/Requiem-For-A-Sailor-Lost-echoe-2x.wav

                                                          enjoy!

                                                          ...
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 578 From: Graeme Eldred Date: 9/20/2005
                                                          Subject: Old HO trains
                                                          Hi gang,

                                                          This message just appeared on the allgauge Yahoo group, and may be of
                                                          interest to someone here?


                                                          To the group,
                                                          I have some of my fathers old trains (HO gauge) from the late 40's to
                                                          early 50's I would like to sell. I need to get some pictures of them to
                                                          put on but, I was just wondering if any one would be interested in them
                                                          now days. Any help about these train would be appreciated. email me any
                                                          time ~oldhousecrafts@...~
                                                          Thank You and Have a Nice Day
                                                          Bet
                                                          --
                                                          Graeme Eldred, Scotland
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 579 From: Chuck Johnston Date: 9/26/2005
                                                          Subject: 1966-1985 Walthers catalogs for sale
                                                          I have a few older Walthers catalogs. I had forgotten about been collecting
                                                          way too much stuff they are 1966,1980,1979,and1985
                                                          all in good condition
                                                          Contact me off list if interested in any.
                                                          Best offer
                                                          thanks
                                                          Chuck Johnston
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 580 From: Imp Ster Date: 9/28/2005
                                                          Subject: Wanted: Mantua steam & classic Athearn diesel - scrap
                                                          (particularly Mantua 2-6-2s w - w/o tender, tank or no._

                                                          Mantua: Ten Whlrs, Generals, Pacifics, Mikados, Hudsons ( top $$ offer
                                                          for diecast cabs & pilots etc)

                                                          Athearn: all gears, frames, bodys, odd parts.
                                                          band drive or gear, fly or no, runs or wrecks.
                                                          need brushes, long and short motor mounts, regular and small (SW-
                                                          etc),flywheels, inserts, shaft components, wheel sets.

                                                          (particularly F-9/s A or B w- w/o fly, metal trucks preferred,
                                                          Superwight or no)

                                                          small stock of various of above parts available surplus to fellow
                                                          modelers in need, sent email with wish list, sorry too much junk here
                                                          to list.
                                                          (but give me time)

                                                          btw, have big pile of never-use decals Champ & lettrasets etc, free for
                                                          shipping.
                                                          steam early diesel some passenger cars mostly frieght and chemical Co's.
                                                          send your roadname, if it turns up its yours for frieght.

                                                          cheers

                                                          ...
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 581 From: Larry Date: 9/29/2005
                                                          Subject: Re: Wanted: Mantua steam & classic Athearn diesel - scrap
                                                          Hello Imp Ster

                                                          Looks like you have been doing a little Fall cleaning. Did you find
                                                          all this in the back of your bus? I will give you these links, you
                                                          may find them useful for part numbers.

                                                          http://www.hoseeker.net/lit.html
                                                          http://www.hoseeker.net/

                                                          I have had a few request for old Athearn parts from different
                                                          modelers. These parts are becoming hard to find at train shows,
                                                          especially the older models. Which is very disappointing. If you
                                                          look real hard you may find a few of them.

                                                          Larry

                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Imp Ster" <iimpster@y...> wrote:
                                                          > (particularly Mantua 2-6-2s w - w/o tender, tank or no._
                                                          >
                                                          > Mantua: Ten Whlrs, Generals, Pacifics, Mikados, Hudsons ( top $$
                                                          offer
                                                          > for diecast cabs & pilots etc)
                                                          >
                                                          > Athearn: all gears, frames, bodys, odd parts.
                                                          > band drive or gear, fly or no, runs or wrecks.
                                                          > need brushes, long and short motor mounts, regular and small (SW-
                                                          > etc),flywheels, inserts, shaft components, wheel sets.
                                                          >
                                                          > (particularly F-9/s A or B w- w/o fly, metal trucks preferred,
                                                          > Superwight or no)
                                                          >
                                                          > small stock of various of above parts available surplus to fellow
                                                          > modelers in need, sent email with wish list, sorry too much junk
                                                          here
                                                          > to list.
                                                          > (but give me time)
                                                          >
                                                          > btw, have big pile of never-use decals Champ & lettrasets etc, free
                                                          for
                                                          > shipping.
                                                          > steam early diesel some passenger cars mostly frieght and chemical
                                                          Co's.
                                                          > send your roadname, if it turns up its yours for frieght.
                                                          >
                                                          > cheers
                                                          >
                                                          > ...
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 582 From: diecastdispersal Date: 9/29/2005
                                                          Subject: 20+ Lionel and Related Die-Cast Items Listed
                                                          I am processing a dispersal for a family member and all remaining
                                                          train-related items (20+) are currently listed (Lionel, Bachmann,
                                                          etc.). Please take a look if interested.

                                                          Thanks.

                                                          Stewart

                                                          http://www.DieCastDispersal.com

                                                          Links to photos of (4) items currently listed:

                                                          http://i22.ebayimg.com/02/i/04/d4/07/9b_1_b.JPG
                                                          http://i6.ebayimg.com/02/i/04/cd/bb/21_1_b.JPG
                                                          http://i22.ebayimg.com/03/i/04/d4/08/42_1_b.JPG
                                                          http://i6.ebayimg.com/02/i/04/cf/f2/23_1_b.JPG
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 583 From: Imp Ster Date: 10/19/2005
                                                          Subject: tnx Larry for link to HOseeker index
                                                          sorry i didnt see this sooner, somehow my membership lost the digest
                                                          setting.

                                                          hmm, looks like a few nice Ulrich items!
                                                          i have one each of the operatings hopper and drop bottom, would like
                                                          more for the ol' coffee train.
                                                          Ulrich was true die-cast art, i havent found anything to compare.
                                                          i'm supposed to get rich quick come Feb, will snap them all up if
                                                          that happens.

                                                          however what i'm REALLY nutz about right now, are the Tyco operating
                                                          hoppers.. i have 8 so far, converted to Kadee cplrs and trks, and
                                                          would like to grab as many more as i greedily can.
                                                          i've got 6 classic Athearn Trainmasters tuned up and ready to haul'em!
                                                          anybody?

                                                          ps, $$ is no object if anybody has the vintage MRC triple-throttle
                                                          powerpack that they would consider parting w, that would be the
                                                          edition with the early taper-wound rheostats, and it had really nice
                                                          large glass 'power' and 'overload' light "eyes".
                                                          i saw one at a dusty collecton, but it wasnt for sale.
                                                          grr.

                                                          ...
                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 584 From: Don Dellmann Date: 10/22/2005
                                                          Subject: New mystery car
                                                          Attachments :
                                                            Got another "unknown" done today. It was in a box of "parts" I bought on
                                                            eBay, just needed an underframe, trucks & couplers. I adapted an old die
                                                            cast Mantua underframe that was in the same box, the rest was easy.

                                                            The sides appear to be cardstock, possibly laminated to aluminum a'la early
                                                            Mantua, ends are die cast, floor is wood.

                                                            Don

                                                            don.dellmann@...
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                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 585 From: Don Dellmann Date: 10/25/2005
                                                            Subject: Another addition to the roster
                                                            Attachments :
                                                              Putzed around in the basement a bit last night, got another one on the
                                                              layout.

                                                              This one is a bit rare, as it's a HObbyline that actually still had
                                                              salvagable decals.

                                                              Don

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                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 586 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 10/25/2005
                                                              Subject: Re: Another addition to the roster
                                                              Looks great Don.
                                                               I've been finding some Hobbyline kits lately at the shows.
                                                               I have a Berkshire (and a half). One is complete and the other is a kit-bash someone was trying to power. I am finishing the job. I need to find a tender for it.
                                                               I have a Quad hopper that needs decals and a Baby Ruth tank car that is complete.
                                                               
                                                                      Ray

                                                              Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                                              Putzed around in the basement a bit last night, got another one on the
                                                              layout.

                                                              This one is a bit rare, as it's a HObbyline that actually still had
                                                              salvagable decals.

                                                              Don

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                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 587 From: don.dellmann Date: 10/25/2005
                                                              Subject: Re: Another addition to the roster
                                                              Thanks.

                                                              I've been having pretty good luck on eBay. Just today a package came in the
                                                              mail. It was a not real clear picture on the auction, but described as
                                                              "aluminum hopper car, stored in an attic since 1958". I paid about $7.00
                                                              including shipping (actually I bought three things from this seller for $21
                                                              total delivered, the other two were an original Globe dummy F-7B and a
                                                              globe/Athearn streamline postal car, assembled from originaL 6 piece body
                                                              kit).

                                                              Anyway, you can imagine my delight when I unwrapped an original Ulrich 2 bay
                                                              hopper, VERY well built, with the original Ulrich sprung metal wheel trucks
                                                              and Kadee No. 4 couplers already installed! (Although someone had
                                                              "dimitriezed" the couplers by performing a gladhandectomy. Regular readers
                                                              of rmr on usenet and the various HO yahoo lists will recognize the reference
                                                              <G>)

                                                              Anyway, just a wheel cleaning and it's on the layout.

                                                              Don

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                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                              From: Ray Marinaccio <raymarinaccio@...>
                                                              To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                              Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 10:28 AM
                                                              Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Another addition to the roster


                                                              > Looks great Don.
                                                              > I've been finding some Hobbyline kits lately at the shows.
                                                              > I have a Berkshire (and a half). One is complete and the other is a
                                                              kit-bash someone was trying to power. I am finishing the job. I need to find
                                                              a tender for it.
                                                              > I have a Quad hopper that needs decals and a Baby Ruth tank car that is
                                                              complete.
                                                              >
                                                              > Ray
                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 588 From: Don Dellmann Date: 10/25/2005
                                                              Subject: Ulrich Hopper
                                                              Attachments :
                                                                Here's the Ulrich car I mentioned in my last post. (And I see I did another
                                                                picture with the car derailed :-0 )

                                                                Don

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                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 589 From: Rick Jones Date: 10/25/2005
                                                                Subject: Re: Another addition to the roster
                                                                don.dellmann wrote:
                                                                >
                                                                > Anyway, you can imagine my delight when I unwrapped an original Ulrich 2 bay
                                                                > hopper, VERY well built, with the original Ulrich sprung metal wheel trucks
                                                                > and Kadee No. 4 couplers already installed!

                                                                One thing that I occasionally wonder is how much longer Kadee will
                                                                continue to manufacture the #4's since they only apply to these old, OOP
                                                                models. Every once in a while I buy a batch of them to make sure I have
                                                                some on hand as I put together old kits that need them.

                                                                --

                                                                Rick Jones

                                                                The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad
                                                                http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/

                                                                Don't sneeze when someone is cutting your hair.
                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 590 From: Don Dellmann Date: 10/26/2005
                                                                Subject: Slowly emptying the "project pile"
                                                                Attachments :
                                                                  Slowly but surely, getting 'em off the project pile onto the layout.

                                                                  Now sure how this one qualifies as authentic vintage, since it's been
                                                                  painted and decalled, but a Varney none the less. (came with no couplers
                                                                  but Lindberg trucks, put intermountain wheels in, boy does it roll.) It
                                                                  also has an unusual all metal underframe I've never seen before. The area
                                                                  between the hopper bottoms is filled in with a full width filler piece.
                                                                  Still only weighed 2 1/2 oz. though. :-(

                                                                  Don

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                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 591 From: Rudolf de Haas Date: 10/27/2005
                                                                  Subject: Athearn DD40
                                                                  Hi, I bought a single motor Athearn DD40 in UP livery. The odd thing
                                                                  is; it has a blue frame! The seller claims it's new old stock and it
                                                                  looks quiet original to me, but could it be sprayed blue? I never saw
                                                                  UP loco's with blue frames! If it's not original, I will spray it gray
                                                                  again. Rudolf
                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 592 From: Rudolf de Haas Date: 10/27/2005
                                                                  Subject: Lionel HO, UP Challenger
                                                                  Hi, recently I bought a new Lionel HO UP Challenger in yellow/gray
                                                                  livery. It's the passenger version of the UP Challenger service, but
                                                                  who knows where to buy any matching cars for it (what brand, what type,
                                                                  etc...) I know this loco isn't vintage (YET). But regarding the
                                                                  knowledge in the group here, I think someone can come up with a
                                                                  solution! Regards, Rudolf
                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 593 From: Don Riley Date: 10/27/2005
                                                                  Subject: Re: Athearn DD40
                                                                  Either yours has the frame for some other DD40 or someone sprayed it. Most of them look like this
                                                                   
                                                                  Steamengine 4449

                                                                  Rudolf de Haas <redehaas@...> wrote:
                                                                  Hi, I bought a single motor Athearn DD40 in UP livery. The odd thing
                                                                  is; it has a blue frame! The seller claims it's new old stock and it
                                                                  looks quiet original to me, but could it be sprayed blue? I never saw
                                                                  UP loco's with blue frames! If it's not original, I will spray it gray
                                                                  again. Rudolf


                                                                  Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 594 From: Larry Date: 10/27/2005
                                                                  Subject: Re: Lionel HO, UP Challenger
                                                                  Hi Rudolf:

                                                                  Some old and new pictures of a UP 4-6-6-4 challenger. I recently
                                                                  bought an old allegeny 2-6-6-6 challenger. I am in the process of
                                                                  rebuilding this engine now.

                                                                  http://photoswest.org/cgi-bin/imager?00018430+OP-18430
                                                                  http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/up3981a.jpg
                                                                  http://photoswest.org/cgi-bin/imager?00018387+OP-18387
                                                                  http://www.trainweather.com/3985feb6.html

                                                                  Larry
                                                                  http://www.hoseeker.net

                                                                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Rudolf de Haas" <redehaas@d...>
                                                                  wrote:
                                                                  >
                                                                  > Hi, recently I bought a new Lionel HO UP Challenger in yellow/gray
                                                                  > livery. It's the passenger version of the UP Challenger service,
                                                                  but
                                                                  > who knows where to buy any matching cars for it (what brand, what
                                                                  type,
                                                                  > etc...) I know this loco isn't vintage (YET). But regarding the
                                                                  > knowledge in the group here, I think someone can come up with a
                                                                  > solution! Regards, Rudolf
                                                                  >
                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 595 From: don.dellmann Date: 10/27/2005
                                                                  Subject: Re: Athearn DD40
                                                                  Athearn did offer the "DD-40" in the EMD Demo Blue paint, I wonder if
                                                                  someone just swapped a shell.
                                                                  It was kind of a light metallic blue, (around here we call it "Evinrude
                                                                  Blue", same color as the old 1950's Evinrude outboard motors).

                                                                  Don

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                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                  From: Don Riley <steamengine4449us@...>
                                                                  To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                  Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 12:33 PM
                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Athearn DD40


                                                                  > Either yours has the frame for some other DD40 or someone sprayed it. Most
                                                                  of them look like this
                                                                  >
                                                                  http://cgi.ebay.com/Athearn-DD40-POWERED-UNION-PACIFIC-NIB_W0QQitemZ60083364
                                                                  80QQcategoryZ19130QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
                                                                  >
                                                                  > Steamengine 4449
                                                                  >
                                                                  > Rudolf de Haas <redehaas@...> wrote:
                                                                  > Hi, I bought a single motor Athearn DD40 in UP livery. The odd thing
                                                                  > is; it has a blue frame! The seller claims it's new old stock and it
                                                                  > looks quiet original to me, but could it be sprayed blue? I never saw
                                                                  > UP loco's with blue frames! If it's not original, I will spray it gray
                                                                  > again. Rudolf
                                                                  >
                                                                  > ---------------------------------
                                                                  > Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 596 From: Michael F. Looney Date: 10/27/2005
                                                                  Subject: Re: Athearn DD40
                                                                  Athearn also did the DD-40 in B&O colors at one time also
                                                                   Mike Looney
                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 597 From: Imp Ster Date: 10/27/2005
                                                                  Subject: DD-40s - o boy
                                                                  heheheh, pardon my irreverence, but... only ONE motor in that DD?

                                                                  i got a soft spot for those monsters, even if they are too big for any
                                                                  sane scale operation situation.
                                                                  but a single-motor job? - dont know as i've ever seen one like that.
                                                                  might wanna keep tabs on that for overheating; you might want to sub a
                                                                  motor with better magnet and armature from a later issue, if you plan
                                                                  continuous running.

                                                                  i have a pair in the 'modern' 2-motor mini-flywheel config, keeping
                                                                  them 'packed in grease' as it were, for future Northlandz-style running.
                                                                  but the one i've been having the fun with recently, is a really old
                                                                  issue, came in the super-long Ath white box, and has 2 motors, no flys,
                                                                  and the motors are linked by a set of universals.

                                                                  as an experiment, i removed the drive-shaft link to see if starting
                                                                  torque was inproved.
                                                                  no apparent difference.
                                                                  but i worried about possible power drop-outs from the slightly-
                                                                  rusted "buss bar" steel power strip, so i linked the motors again just
                                                                  to be on safe side.

                                                                  this issue's frame has no space for flys molded in, but i'm certain
                                                                  that i can fit some, using the mini flys (SW-series, etc) on the
                                                                  outside of the motors (just enough room to fit them next to those
                                                                  monster power trucks), and a set of standard flys (hopefuly i can find
                                                                  a nice brass set, but will settle for zinc) will likely fit in drive
                                                                  link area, with, i think, enough room left for the drive-link to remain.

                                                                  but for now, its just humming around the 'office' layout, happily
                                                                  breaking itself in, dreaming of 50-car Tyco-hopper coffee train duty...

                                                                  ....
                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 598 From: Don Riley Date: 10/27/2005
                                                                  Subject: Re: DD-40s - o boy
                                                                  Single motor ones are not real common but Athearn did offer them. I do not know if Horizon will keep doing them.
                                                                   
                                                                  I have a two motored one. Works great even on curves. I generally only pull about 15 cars with it. But hey SP did use more power then needed sometimes! She will even snake around in the yard.
                                                                   
                                                                  I have seen the old ones on ebay in the past. Must have been made about the same time as the real one was made.
                                                                   
                                                                  Steamengine 4449

                                                                  Imp Ster <iimpster@...> wrote:
                                                                  heheheh, pardon my irreverence, but... only ONE motor in that DD?

                                                                  i got a soft spot for those monsters, even if they are too big for any
                                                                  sane scale operation situation.
                                                                  but a single-motor job? - dont know as i've ever seen one like that.
                                                                  might wanna keep tabs on that for overheating; you might want to sub a
                                                                  motor with better magnet and armature from a later issue, if you plan
                                                                  continuous running.

                                                                  i have a pair in the 'modern' 2-motor mini-flywheel config, keeping
                                                                  them 'packed in grease' as it were, for future Northlandz-style running.
                                                                  but the one i've been having the fun with recently, is a really old
                                                                  issue, came in the super-long Ath white box, and has 2 motors, no flys,
                                                                  and the motors are linked by a set of universals.

                                                                  as an experiment, i removed the drive-shaft link to see if starting
                                                                  torque was inproved.
                                                                  no apparent difference.
                                                                  but i worried about possible power drop-outs from the slightly-
                                                                  rusted "buss bar" steel power strip, so i linked the motors again just
                                                                  to be on safe side.

                                                                  this issue's frame has no space for flys molded in, but i'm certain
                                                                  that i can fit some, using the mini flys (SW-series, etc) on the
                                                                  outside of the motors (just enough room to fit them next to those
                                                                  monster power trucks), and a set of standard flys (hopefuly i can find
                                                                  a nice brass set, but will settle for zinc) will likely fit in drive
                                                                  link area, with, i think, enough room left for the drive-link to remain.

                                                                  but for now, its just humming around the 'office' layout, happily
                                                                  breaking itself in, dreaming of 50-car Tyco-hopper coffee train duty...


                                                                  Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 599 From: Don Riley Date: 10/27/2005
                                                                  Subject: Re: Athearn DD40
                                                                  Yes there is one on ebay now. But it looks to have a black frame. Might have been painted blue one run or another. Dark blue.
                                                                   
                                                                  Also there was a Burlington Red. And EMD demo blue. Maybe the demo one was blue framed at one time. Neither on ebay now but are commonly there.
                                                                   
                                                                  Steamengine 4449

                                                                  "Michael F. Looney" <excalibur5776@...> wrote:
                                                                  Athearn also did the DD-40 in B&O colors at one time also
                                                                   Mike Looney


                                                                  Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 600 From: don.dellmann Date: 10/28/2005
                                                                  Subject: Re: DD-40s - o boy
                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                  From: Imp Ster <iimpster@...>
                                                                  To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                  Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 8:13 PM
                                                                  Subject: [vintageHO] DD-40s - o boy


                                                                  > heheheh, pardon my irreverence, but... only ONE motor in that DD?
                                                                  >
                                                                  > i got a soft spot for those monsters, even if they are too big for any
                                                                  > sane scale operation situation.
                                                                  > but a single-motor job? - dont know as i've ever seen one like that.
                                                                  > might wanna keep tabs on that for overheating; you might want to sub a
                                                                  > motor with better magnet and armature from a later issue, if you plan
                                                                  > continuous running.
                                                                  >
                                                                  > i have a pair in the 'modern' 2-motor mini-flywheel config, keeping
                                                                  > them 'packed in grease' as it were, for future Northlandz-style running.
                                                                  > but the one i've been having the fun with recently, is a really old
                                                                  > issue, came in the super-long Ath white box, and has 2 motors, no flys,
                                                                  > and the motors are linked by a set of universals.
                                                                  >
                                                                  > as an experiment, i removed the drive-shaft link to see if starting
                                                                  > torque was inproved.
                                                                  > no apparent difference.
                                                                  > but i worried about possible power drop-outs from the slightly-
                                                                  > rusted "buss bar" steel power strip, so i linked the motors again just
                                                                  > to be on safe side.
                                                                  >
                                                                  > this issue's frame has no space for flys molded in, but i'm certain
                                                                  > that i can fit some, using the mini flys (SW-series, etc) on the
                                                                  > outside of the motors (just enough room to fit them next to those
                                                                  > monster power trucks), and a set of standard flys (hopefuly i can find
                                                                  > a nice brass set, but will settle for zinc) will likely fit in drive
                                                                  > link area, with, i think, enough room left for the drive-link to remain.
                                                                  >
                                                                  > but for now, its just humming around the 'office' layout, happily
                                                                  > breaking itself in, dreaming of 50-car Tyco-hopper coffee train duty...

                                                                  Athearn did offer both single motor and two moter versions.

                                                                  From a 1976 Walthers' catalog, the single motor versions were $19.98, the
                                                                  two motor $ 24.98. (Dummy $ 7.98)

                                                                  Road names offered:

                                                                  Undec.
                                                                  B&O
                                                                  CB&Q
                                                                  GM Demo
                                                                  PRR
                                                                  UP
                                                                  SP

                                                                  Don

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                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 601 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 10/28/2005
                                                                  Subject: Fwd: Great Western & Atlantic Train Show Coming to Vancouver, WA.!!!
                                                                  Attachments :
                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 602 From: erieberk Date: 10/28/2005
                                                                    Subject: Re: New mystery car
                                                                    Don, Thought I'd let you know what it appears you have with this
                                                                    gondola. Tried earlier in the week but had trouble with my server.
                                                                    The T & P sides check out to be nothing else but Mantua with the
                                                                    reporting marks and roadnumber matching (only) that manufacturer; the
                                                                    cast ends are Mantua as well and now of course the underframe with
                                                                    your ID of that. Mantua did not use a wood floor however, which
                                                                    puzzles me since you say the sides are glued to what you think is
                                                                    aluminum. I presume you mean a heavier metal (aluminum?) than just
                                                                    foil (?) -- some manufacturers (I believe Laconia, for one) backed
                                                                    their sides up with a heavy aluminum foil. Mantua used a one-piece
                                                                    (bottom and two sides) thin steel stamping to which the sides were
                                                                    glued and cast ends installed. The wood floor may be A-C/L-W Models,
                                                                    especially if it is scribed. Looks like you have a kitbashed car,
                                                                    but a nice restoration of mostly Mantua. Ray
                                                                    \
                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...>
                                                                    wrote:
                                                                    >
                                                                    > Got another "unknown" done today. It was in a box of "parts" I
                                                                    bought on
                                                                    > eBay, just needed an underframe, trucks & couplers. I adapted an
                                                                    old die
                                                                    > cast Mantua underframe that was in the same box, the rest was easy.
                                                                    >
                                                                    > The sides appear to be cardstock, possibly laminated to aluminum
                                                                    a'la early
                                                                    > Mantua, ends are die cast, floor is wood.
                                                                    >
                                                                    > Don
                                                                    >
                                                                    > don.dellmann@p...
                                                                    > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                    > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
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                                                                    >
                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 603 From: AL Date: 10/28/2005
                                                                    Subject: Re: Digest Number 185
                                                                    > Also there was a Burlington Red. And EMD demo blue. Maybe the demo one was
                                                                    blue >framed at one time. Neither on ebay now but are commonly there.

                                                                    The EMD painted DD-40 that I have in my collection has a painted to match
                                                                    (metallic blue) frame.
                                                                    It is also the dual motor, NO flywheels version.

                                                                    I also have one in Black New York Central decor. (same 2 motor,no
                                                                    flywheels) .

                                                                    ~ AL

                                                                    ( lurker as of late, my bad )
                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 604 From: don.dellmann Date: 10/28/2005
                                                                    Subject: Re: New mystery car
                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                    From: erieberk <erieberk@...>
                                                                    To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                    Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 3:50 PM
                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] Re: New mystery car


                                                                    > Don, Thought I'd let you know what it appears you have with this
                                                                    > gondola. Tried earlier in the week but had trouble with my server.
                                                                    > The T & P sides check out to be nothing else but Mantua with the
                                                                    > reporting marks and roadnumber matching (only) that manufacturer; the
                                                                    > cast ends are Mantua as well and now of course the underframe with
                                                                    > your ID of that. Mantua did not use a wood floor however, which
                                                                    > puzzles me since you say the sides are glued to what you think is
                                                                    > aluminum. I presume you mean a heavier metal (aluminum?) than just
                                                                    > foil (?) -- some manufacturers (I believe Laconia, for one) backed
                                                                    > their sides up with a heavy aluminum foil. Mantua used a one-piece
                                                                    > (bottom and two sides) thin steel stamping to which the sides were
                                                                    > glued and cast ends installed. The wood floor may be A-C/L-W Models,
                                                                    > especially if it is scribed. Looks like you have a kitbashed car,
                                                                    > but a nice restoration of mostly Mantua. Ray
                                                                    > \

                                                                    You may recall an earlier car I displayed that was a Mantua boxcar with
                                                                    sides laminated to very thin rigid aluminum. This appears very similar,
                                                                    hence my comments.

                                                                    Where it differs from your description though, the sides fold under to make
                                                                    about an 1/8" wide lip under the floor (like Walthers' early passenger cars,
                                                                    pre "silver anniversary" line), and at either end there's a SCREW holding
                                                                    the sides to the floor. The cast ends appear to be glued on however. (The
                                                                    floor is NOT scribed either).

                                                                    Is it possible that over the years Mantua's production methods changed? For
                                                                    example I have metal Varneys with metal floors, metal varneys with wood
                                                                    floors, plastic varneys with plastic floors, plastic varneys with metal
                                                                    floors, etc.

                                                                    Don

                                                                    don.dellmann@...
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                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 605 From: don.dellmann Date: 10/29/2005
                                                                    Subject: Re: New mystery car
                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                    From: don.dellmann <don.dellmann@...>
                                                                    To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                    Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 5:47 PM
                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: New mystery car


                                                                    >
                                                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                    > From: erieberk <erieberk@...>
                                                                    > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                    > Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 3:50 PM
                                                                    > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: New mystery car
                                                                    >
                                                                    >
                                                                    > > Don, Thought I'd let you know what it appears you have with this
                                                                    > > gondola. Tried earlier in the week but had trouble with my server.
                                                                    > > The T & P sides check out to be nothing else but Mantua with the
                                                                    > > reporting marks and roadnumber matching (only) that manufacturer; the
                                                                    > > cast ends are Mantua as well and now of course the underframe with
                                                                    > > your ID of that. Mantua did not use a wood floor however, which
                                                                    > > puzzles me since you say the sides are glued to what you think is
                                                                    > > aluminum. I presume you mean a heavier metal (aluminum?) than just
                                                                    > > foil (?) -- some manufacturers (I believe Laconia, for one) backed
                                                                    > > their sides up with a heavy aluminum foil. Mantua used a one-piece
                                                                    > > (bottom and two sides) thin steel stamping to which the sides were
                                                                    > > glued and cast ends installed. The wood floor may be A-C/L-W Models,
                                                                    > > especially if it is scribed. Looks like you have a kitbashed car,
                                                                    > > but a nice restoration of mostly Mantua. Ray
                                                                    > > \
                                                                    >
                                                                    > You may recall an earlier car I displayed that was a Mantua boxcar with
                                                                    > sides laminated to very thin rigid aluminum. This appears very similar,
                                                                    > hence my comments.
                                                                    >
                                                                    > Where it differs from your description though, the sides fold under to
                                                                    make
                                                                    > about an 1/8" wide lip under the floor (like Walthers' early passenger
                                                                    cars,
                                                                    > pre "silver anniversary" line), and at either end there's a SCREW holding
                                                                    > the sides to the floor. The cast ends appear to be glued on however.
                                                                    (The
                                                                    > floor is NOT scribed either).
                                                                    >
                                                                    > Is it possible that over the years Mantua's production methods changed?
                                                                    For
                                                                    > example I have metal Varneys with metal floors, metal varneys with wood
                                                                    > floors, plastic varneys with plastic floors, plastic varneys with metal
                                                                    > floors, etc.
                                                                    >
                                                                    > Don

                                                                    I looked at the car a little closer, the pieces screwed to the floor are
                                                                    actually angles, and the sides are glued to the angles, so they extend a bit
                                                                    below the floor.

                                                                    Don

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                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 606 From: redehaas@dds.nl Date: 10/30/2005
                                                                    Subject: Re: Athearn DD40
                                                                    Hi Don,
                                                                    Well that must be it, "Evinrude Blue"
                                                                    I did some research on the DD-40 EMD Demo,
                                                                    I guess they've swapped shels indeed...
                                                                    Mmm... Next question; Is my DD-40 actually a DD-35?
                                                                    There are some confusing messages saying the DD-40 on the Athearn box was wrong!
                                                                    I've got a Bachmann DD-40, but it's much bigger!
                                                                    Regards from Holland (we don't heve much of those monsers over here...)
                                                                    Rudolf




                                                                    Citeren "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>:

                                                                    Athearn did offer the "DD-40" in the EMD Demo Blue paint, I wonder if
                                                                    >
                                                                    > someone just swapped a shell.
                                                                    >
                                                                    > It was kind of a light metallic blue, (around here we call it "Evinrude
                                                                    >
                                                                    > Blue", same color as the old 1950's Evinrude outboard motors).
                                                                    >
                                                                    >
                                                                    >
                                                                    > Don
                                                                    >
                                                                    >
                                                                    >
                                                                    > don.dellmann@...
                                                                    >
                                                                    > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                    >
                                                                    > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                    >
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                                                                    >
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                                                                    >
                                                                    >
                                                                    >
                                                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                    >
                                                                    > From: Don Riley <steamengine4449us@...>
                                                                    >
                                                                    > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                    >
                                                                    > Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 12:33 PM
                                                                    >
                                                                    > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Athearn DD40
                                                                    >
                                                                    >
                                                                    >
                                                                    >
                                                                    >
                                                                    > > Either yours has the frame for some other DD40 or someone sprayed it. Most
                                                                    >
                                                                    > of them look like this
                                                                    >
                                                                    > >
                                                                    >
                                                                    > http://cgi.ebay.com/Athearn-DD40-POWERED-UNION-PACIFIC-NIB_W0QQitemZ60083364
                                                                    >
                                                                    > 80QQcategoryZ19130QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
                                                                    >
                                                                    > >
                                                                    >
                                                                    > > Steamengine 4449
                                                                    >
                                                                    > >
                                                                    >
                                                                    > > Rudolf de Haas <redehaas@...> wrote:
                                                                    >
                                                                    > > Hi, I bought a single motor Athearn DD40 in UP livery. The odd thing
                                                                    >
                                                                    > > is; it has a blue frame! The seller claims it's new old stock and it
                                                                    >
                                                                    > > looks quiet original to me, but could it be sprayed blue? I never saw
                                                                    >
                                                                    > > UP loco's with blue frames! If it's not original, I will spray it gray
                                                                    >
                                                                    > > again. Rudolf
                                                                    >
                                                                    > >
                                                                    >
                                                                    > > ---------------------------------
                                                                    >
                                                                    > >  Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
                                                                    >
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                                                                    >
                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 607 From: don.dellmann Date: 10/30/2005
                                                                    Subject: Re: Athearn DD40
                                                                    Athearn's DD-40 is actually a model of a locomotive that was never built.
                                                                    It was designed from EMD's pre-production literature, but the only DD-40's
                                                                    ever actually built were UP's DDA-40X "Centennials" with the wide cab.

                                                                    It is a reasonably credible model of a DD-35A, of which 15 were built for
                                                                    the Union Pacific in 1965 (No.s 70-84).
                                                                    I believe the only real differences are possibly in the size and arrangement
                                                                    of the rood fans. The original DD-35 was a cabless "booster" unit, intended
                                                                    to use with GP-35's. 30 DD-35's without cabs were built in 1963 and 1964
                                                                    for the Union Pacific and the Southern Pacific. EMD's original plan was to
                                                                    offer the DD-40 in the DD-35A carbody, this is the Athearn model, but those
                                                                    plans were dropped in 1966. Instead, 47 of the DDA-40X model were built for
                                                                    the Union Pacific between 1969 and 1971. This is the Bachmann model you
                                                                    have. (Which gave rise to the joke "What do you get if you cross the
                                                                    Goodyear blimp with a pregnant whale?" "I don't know, but paint it yellow &
                                                                    grey and the UP will buy it." <G>)

                                                                    Don

                                                                    don.dellmann@...
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                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                    From: <redehaas@...>
                                                                    To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                    Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 3:21 AM
                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Athearn DD40


                                                                    Hi Don,
                                                                    Well that must be it, "Evinrude Blue"
                                                                    I did some research on the DD-40 EMD Demo,
                                                                    I guess they've swapped shels indeed...
                                                                    Mmm... Next question; Is my DD-40 actually a DD-35?
                                                                    There are some confusing messages saying the DD-40 on the Athearn box was
                                                                    wrong!
                                                                    I've got a Bachmann DD-40, but it's much bigger!
                                                                    Regards from Holland (we don't heve much of those monsers over here...)
                                                                    Rudolf




                                                                    Citeren "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>:

                                                                    Athearn did offer the "DD-40" in the EMD Demo Blue paint, I wonder if
                                                                    >
                                                                    > someone just swapped a shell.
                                                                    >
                                                                    > It was kind of a light metallic blue, (around here we call it "Evinrude
                                                                    >
                                                                    > Blue", same color as the old 1950's Evinrude outboard motors).
                                                                    >
                                                                    >
                                                                    >
                                                                    > Don
                                                                    >
                                                                    >
                                                                    >
                                                                    > don.dellmann@...
                                                                    >
                                                                    > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                    >
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                                                                    >
                                                                    >
                                                                    >
                                                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                    >
                                                                    > From: Don Riley <steamengine4449us@...>
                                                                    >
                                                                    > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                    >
                                                                    > Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 12:33 PM
                                                                    >
                                                                    > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Athearn DD40
                                                                    >
                                                                    >
                                                                    >
                                                                    >
                                                                    >
                                                                    > > Either yours has the frame for some other DD40 or someone sprayed it.
                                                                    Most
                                                                    >
                                                                    > of them look like this
                                                                    >
                                                                    > >
                                                                    >
                                                                    >
                                                                    http://cgi.ebay.com/Athearn-DD40-POWERED-UNION-PACIFIC-NIB_W0QQitemZ60083364
                                                                    >
                                                                    > 80QQcategoryZ19130QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
                                                                    >
                                                                    > >
                                                                    >
                                                                    > > Steamengine 4449
                                                                    >
                                                                    > >
                                                                    >
                                                                    > > Rudolf de Haas <redehaas@...> wrote:
                                                                    >
                                                                    > > Hi, I bought a single motor Athearn DD40 in UP livery. The odd thing
                                                                    >
                                                                    > > is; it has a blue frame! The seller claims it's new old stock and it
                                                                    >
                                                                    > > looks quiet original to me, but could it be sprayed blue? I never saw
                                                                    >
                                                                    > > UP loco's with blue frames! If it's not original, I will spray it gray
                                                                    >
                                                                    > > again. Rudolf
                                                                    >
                                                                    > >
                                                                    >
                                                                    > > ---------------------------------
                                                                    >
                                                                    > > Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
                                                                    >
                                                                    >
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                                                                    >
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                                                                    >





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                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 609 From: don.dellmann Date: 10/31/2005
                                                                    Subject: Moderator Warning (was Re: [vintageHO] DD-35 - 40s: Athearn vs. Bac
                                                                    Bachmann is off-topic here, except for "plasticville" which existed before
                                                                    1960 or so.

                                                                    You're not saying anything most of us don't already know though. That's one
                                                                    of the most attractive things about vintage HO, it's a LOT more rugged.

                                                                    Don
                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                    From: Imp Ster <iimpster@...>
                                                                    To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                    Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 5:17 AM
                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] DD-35 - 40s: Athearn vs. Bachmann


                                                                    > caution, a long rant on shoddy Bachman design.
                                                                    >
                                                                    > speak of the evil -
                                                                    > a Bachmann DD-whatzit turned up in a junk-box assortment, and at
                                                                    > first i was thrilled.
                                                                    > ooo looky dat great blinking yellow LED!
                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 611 From: erieberk Date: 10/31/2005
                                                                    Subject: Re: New mystery car
                                                                    Don, I was beginning to think the same thing as you are thinking;
                                                                    that somewhere along the line Mantua's production design had
                                                                    changed. If it had, I can't find when it might have been. I checked
                                                                    out every Mantua metal gondola kit in my collection and find they all
                                                                    have one-piece steel bodies. I also checked out every Mantua
                                                                    Handbook, Catalog, Replacement Parts list book and Construction &
                                                                    Operating Manual in my collection from 1938 to 1953 with the same
                                                                    results -- a one-piece body (Part #2205 -- 25 cents - lol). The
                                                                    whole kit cost $2.95 back then. Thumbing through the Mantua
                                                                    catalogs, etc., I noticed they emphasized all their kits (engines and
                                                                    cars) were made of metal, further specifying "no wood" in their
                                                                    contruction to "warp or curl". Their slogans proudly state "The All-
                                                                    Metal Line" and "Masterpieces in Metal". I can't imagine they
                                                                    produced these cars much later than the mid-' 50's, but I really
                                                                    don't know. My later Mantua catalogs of intermittent years show
                                                                    mostly engines for the most part and are of no help here. However,
                                                                    as they changed their cast boilered Pacific and Mikado kits later on
                                                                    to include plastic cabs and pilots (instead of metal), I would not
                                                                    put it past them to have changed these kits in their last years of
                                                                    production, although nothing definite right now; will continue to
                                                                    check and let you know if anything turns up. Ray
                                                                    \
                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...>
                                                                    wrote:
                                                                    >
                                                                    >
                                                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                    > From: don.dellmann <don.dellmann@p...>
                                                                    > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                    > Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 5:47 PM
                                                                    > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: New mystery car
                                                                    >
                                                                    >
                                                                    > >
                                                                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                    > > From: erieberk <erieberk@w...>
                                                                    > > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                    > > Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 3:50 PM
                                                                    > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: New mystery car
                                                                    > >
                                                                    > >
                                                                    > > > Don, Thought I'd let you know what it appears you have with
                                                                    this
                                                                    > > > gondola. Tried earlier in the week but had trouble with my
                                                                    server.
                                                                    > > > The T & P sides check out to be nothing else but Mantua with the
                                                                    > > > reporting marks and roadnumber matching (only) that
                                                                    manufacturer; the
                                                                    > > > cast ends are Mantua as well and now of course the underframe
                                                                    with
                                                                    > > > your ID of that. Mantua did not use a wood floor however, which
                                                                    > > > puzzles me since you say the sides are glued to what you think
                                                                    is
                                                                    > > > aluminum. I presume you mean a heavier metal (aluminum?) than
                                                                    just
                                                                    > > > foil (?) -- some manufacturers (I believe Laconia, for one)
                                                                    backed
                                                                    > > > their sides up with a heavy aluminum foil. Mantua used a one-
                                                                    piece
                                                                    > > > (bottom and two sides) thin steel stamping to which the sides
                                                                    were
                                                                    > > > glued and cast ends installed. The wood floor may be A-C/L-W
                                                                    Models,
                                                                    > > > especially if it is scribed. Looks like you have a kitbashed
                                                                    car,
                                                                    > > > but a nice restoration of mostly Mantua. Ray
                                                                    > > > \
                                                                    > >
                                                                    > > You may recall an earlier car I displayed that was a Mantua
                                                                    boxcar with
                                                                    > > sides laminated to very thin rigid aluminum. This appears very
                                                                    similar,
                                                                    > > hence my comments.
                                                                    > >
                                                                    > > Where it differs from your description though, the sides fold
                                                                    under to
                                                                    > make
                                                                    > > about an 1/8" wide lip under the floor (like Walthers' early
                                                                    passenger
                                                                    > cars,
                                                                    > > pre "silver anniversary" line), and at either end there's a SCREW
                                                                    holding
                                                                    > > the sides to the floor. The cast ends appear to be glued on
                                                                    however.
                                                                    > (The
                                                                    > > floor is NOT scribed either).
                                                                    > >
                                                                    > > Is it possible that over the years Mantua's production methods
                                                                    changed?
                                                                    > For
                                                                    > > example I have metal Varneys with metal floors, metal varneys
                                                                    with wood
                                                                    > > floors, plastic varneys with plastic floors, plastic varneys with
                                                                    metal
                                                                    > > floors, etc.
                                                                    > >
                                                                    > > Don
                                                                    >
                                                                    > I looked at the car a little closer, the pieces screwed to the
                                                                    floor are
                                                                    > actually angles, and the sides are glued to the angles, so they
                                                                    extend a bit
                                                                    > below the floor.
                                                                    >
                                                                    > Don
                                                                    >
                                                                    > don.dellmann@p...
                                                                    > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                    > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
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                                                                    >
                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 612 From: Dave Slater Date: 10/31/2005
                                                                    Subject: Re: DD-35 - 40s: Athearn vs. Bachmann
                                                                    Imp.
                                                                    I agree with you whole heartedly, I used to have an old Botchmann GP style diesel for the early 1970's that had an "Athearn" style drive and it was good. When we moved into this house 10 years ago the previous owners left a poor excuse for a layout down in the basement along with a newer version of the same locomotive, numbers even matched, the new one was the same as you complained about, hardly get out of it's own way and slower than heck. Needless to say it had a very short lifespan...  <VBG>
                                                                    Dave S.

                                                                    Imp Ster wrote:

                                                                     caution, a long rant on shoddy Bachman design.

                                                                    speak of the evil -
                                                                    a Bachmann DD-whatzit turned up in a junk-box assortment, and at
                                                                    first i was thrilled.
                                                                    ooo looky dat great blinking yellow LED!

                                                                    then i get into the guts of the thing ( such as they are) and of
                                                                    course it's the usual Bachmann joke.
                                                                    i guess it was made for display purposes only; as that
                                                                    dinky "pancake" motor hasnt been able to pull much more than it's own
                                                                    weight in every loco they put it in.
                                                                    be nice if they could have made THAT a dual-motor job.
                                                                    or at least a capable single-motor with drive-train connections to
                                                                    BOTH trucks perhaps??

                                                                    but hey, lookit the nice heavy steel weight!

                                                                    it was so sad.
                                                                    this is a model that, if you set it on fire, it would melt down in
                                                                    minutes and leave nothing but the armature stators and possibly the
                                                                    permags.
                                                                    (hmm, now THERE'S a thought!)

                                                                    and they had the nerve to charge MORE for their plastic garbage than
                                                                    Athearn's superb die-cast geared art-works?

                                                                    i still collect the odd Bachmann (if they are free or pence on the
                                                                    lb), but only for adding to my "diesel junkyard" scenic effect.

                                                                    anybody from Bachmann reading this, take note:
                                                                    it's never too late to change!

                                                                    ...
                                                                     
                                                                     


                                                                    No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.6/152 - Release Date: 31/10/2005

                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 613 From: Dave Slater Date: 10/31/2005
                                                                    Subject: Re: Moderator Warning (was Re: [vintageHO] DD-35 - 40s: Athearn vs.
                                                                    Don..
                                                                    OOPS, appologies as I didn't know...
                                                                    Dave S.

                                                                    "don.dellmann" wrote:

                                                                     Bachmann is off-topic here, except for "plasticville" which existed before
                                                                    1960 or so.

                                                                    You're not saying anything most of us don't already know though.  That's one
                                                                    of the most attractive things about vintage HO, it's a LOT more rugged.

                                                                    Don
                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                    From: Imp Ster <iimpster@...>
                                                                    To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                    Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 5:17 AM
                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] DD-35 - 40s: Athearn vs. Bachmann
                                                                     

                                                                    > caution, a long rant on shoddy Bachman design.
                                                                    >
                                                                    > speak of the evil -
                                                                    > a Bachmann DD-whatzit turned up in a junk-box assortment, and at
                                                                    > first i was thrilled.
                                                                    > ooo looky dat great blinking yellow LED!
                                                                     


                                                                    No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.6/152 - Release Date: 31/10/2005

                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 614 From: Garry Spear Date: 10/31/2005
                                                                    Subject: Strombecker RI Rocket
                                                                    I have the Strombecker RI Rocket from the 1940's era converted to HO
                                                                    scale. Anybody interested? I can supply photos, etc.

                                                                    Garry Spear
                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 615 From: Don Riley Date: 10/31/2005
                                                                    Subject: Re: Strombecker RI Rocket
                                                                    Sure I would like to see it.
                                                                     
                                                                    Steamengine 4449

                                                                    Garry Spear <gspear01@...> wrote:
                                                                    I have the Strombecker RI Rocket from the 1940's era converted to HO
                                                                    scale.  Anybody interested?  I can supply photos, etc.

                                                                    Garry Spear


                                                                    Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 616 From: Imp Ster Date: 11/1/2005
                                                                    Subject: old HO layout left in house?? hmm..
                                                                    hi Dave, great story, what became of that layout?
                                                                    did you improve it or just remove it?

                                                                    i often dream of finding a nice big vintage layout in some abandoned
                                                                    country mansion (or hey, even a humble cottage - i'm not too
                                                                    particular, i just want the art form!)

                                                                    just imagine it - (scale) miles of hand-laid track, turnouts built up
                                                                    from solid rail, actual analog Varistats!

                                                                    they say that south and west of Chicago is rich territory for such
                                                                    things.
                                                                    if this development boots me out after all, i will travel the land
                                                                    seeking vintage HO excellence wherever i may find it - it's either that
                                                                    or i go pester the Northlandz guy to distraction.

                                                                    at risk of off-topic slightly:

                                                                    in my Fredericksburg area of Ferry Farms, years ago, there was an
                                                                    abandoned house that had a big basement full of a completely finished O
                                                                    guage ( not scale) layout, Lionel etc - the stories i heard were, it
                                                                    was loaded with engines, rolling stock etc - a fortune in classic heavy
                                                                    Lionel.
                                                                    however, nobody dared to enter and loot it because it had flooded over
                                                                    the years and was full of copperheads etc.
                                                                    eventualy the basement flooded over the layout and the house supports
                                                                    gave way, the house almost entirely sank into the basement opening!
                                                                    it was then terminaly demolished by bulldozing fill-dirt into the
                                                                    excavation.

                                                                    just like that final scene from Carrie, or House of Usher!

                                                                    tells ya what, tho - i hear of any more such sunken treasures, them
                                                                    snakes better beware o' da imp!

                                                                    ...
                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 617 From: don.dellmann Date: 11/1/2005
                                                                    Subject: Re: Strombecker RI Rocket
                                                                    By "converted to HO Scale" I assume you mean powered? As I recall those
                                                                    Strombeckers were actually 1/8" scale.

                                                                    Why don't you put some pics in an album in the "photos" section, I'm sure
                                                                    most of us would like to see them.

                                                                    Don

                                                                    don.dellmann@...
                                                                    http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                    moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                    moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                    moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                    co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO

                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                    From: Garry Spear <gspear01@...>
                                                                    To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                    Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 8:19 PM
                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] Strombecker RI Rocket


                                                                    > I have the Strombecker RI Rocket from the 1940's era converted to HO
                                                                    > scale. Anybody interested? I can supply photos, etc.
                                                                    >
                                                                    > Garry Spear
                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 618 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/1/2005
                                                                    Subject: Re: DD-35 - 40s: Athearn vs. Bachmann
                                                                    One of the reasons Botchmann is off topic here.

                                                                    Don

                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                    From: Dave Slater <daslater@...>
                                                                    To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                    Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 6:54 PM
                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] DD-35 - 40s: Athearn vs. Bachmann


                                                                    > Imp.
                                                                    > I agree with you whole heartedly, I used to have an old
                                                                    > Botchmann GP style diesel for the early 1970's that had an
                                                                    > "Athearn" style drive and it was good. When we moved into
                                                                    > this house 10 years ago the previous owners left a poor
                                                                    > excuse for a layout down in the basement along with a newer
                                                                    > version of the same locomotive, numbers even matched, the
                                                                    > new one was the same as you complained about, hardly get out
                                                                    > of it's own way and slower than heck. Needless to say it had
                                                                    > a very short lifespan... <VBG>
                                                                    > Dave S.
                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 619 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/1/2005
                                                                    Subject: Re: Moderator Warning (was Re: [vintageHO] DD-35 - 40s: Athearnvs.B
                                                                    No problem. Also, don't be offended by the post I put on the list, I did it
                                                                    before I saw this.

                                                                    It's just that "Botchmann" is one of the "hot button" topics that seems to
                                                                    set people off.

                                                                    Don

                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                    From: Dave Slater <daslater@...>
                                                                    To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                    Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 6:55 PM
                                                                    Subject: Re: Moderator Warning (was Re: [vintageHO] DD-35 - 40s:
                                                                    Athearnvs.Bachmann)


                                                                    > Don..
                                                                    > OOPS, appologies as I didn't know...
                                                                    > Dave S.
                                                                    >
                                                                    > "don.dellmann" wrote:
                                                                    >
                                                                    > > Bachmann is off-topic here, except for "plasticville"
                                                                    > > which existed before
                                                                    > > 1960 or so.
                                                                    > >
                                                                    > > You're not saying anything most of us don't already know
                                                                    > > though. That's one
                                                                    > > of the most attractive things about vintage HO, it's a LOT
                                                                    > > more rugged.
                                                                    > >
                                                                    > > Don
                                                                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                    > > From: Imp Ster <iimpster@...>
                                                                    > > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                    > > Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 5:17 AM
                                                                    > > Subject: [vintageHO] DD-35 - 40s: Athearn vs. Bachmann
                                                                    > >
                                                                    > >
                                                                    > > > caution, a long rant on shoddy Bachman design.
                                                                    > > >
                                                                    > > > speak of the evil -
                                                                    > > > a Bachmann DD-whatzit turned up in a junk-box
                                                                    > > assortment, and at
                                                                    > > > first i was thrilled.
                                                                    > > > ooo looky dat great blinking yellow LED!
                                                                    > >
                                                                    > >
                                                                    > >
                                                                    > >
                                                                    > > SPONSORED LINKS
                                                                    > >
                                                                    > G scale train Ho scale model train G scale model train
                                                                    >
                                                                    > N scale trains N scale train set Scale model train
                                                                    >
                                                                    > > -----------------------------------------------------------
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                                                                    > >
                                                                    > > + Visit your group "vintageHO" on the web.
                                                                    > >
                                                                    > > + To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 620 From: Larry Date: 11/1/2005
                                                                    Subject: Train Show Find
                                                                    I found a brass body and Bowser frame at a recent train show. The old
                                                                    Bowser zinc zomac frame has almost completely disintegrated. I have
                                                                    posted pictures of this find in my photo album here. Can anyone
                                                                    identify the brass body?

                                                                    Notice someone had this set up as a 4-6-6-6. I believe there was no
                                                                    such prototype? I did find that the C&O ran an Allegeny 2-6-6-6.

                                                                    I have started to reassemble this with some of my bowser parts put need
                                                                    to place an order from Bowser.($) I found that the front frame needs
                                                                    to shortened and the front cylinder moved back about 3/16 of an inch.
                                                                    Before I start cutting does anyone have any suggestions?

                                                                    No Botchmann mentioned. I like that name.

                                                                    Larry
                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 621 From: erieberk Date: 11/1/2005
                                                                    Subject: Re: Train Show Find
                                                                    Larry, You have an Allegheny boiler. When viewing the stripped
                                                                    boiler, I almost thought it might have been a Japanese import (PFM --
                                                                    United, Tenshodo, etc.). But in jumping down to the painted and
                                                                    assembled (w/Bowser parts), the distinctive design of the 6-wheel
                                                                    trailing truck gives it away as a slightly modified Winton Allegheny -
                                                                    - nice find! Bowser USRA Mountain 69" drivers (and frames -- using 3
                                                                    of the 4 axle slots on each frame) would probably be your best bet;
                                                                    that may be what you have now. The C&O Alleghenys had 67" drivers.
                                                                    Regards, Ray
                                                                    \
                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Larry" <seekingho@y...> wrote:
                                                                    >
                                                                    > I found a brass body and Bowser frame at a recent train show. The
                                                                    old
                                                                    > Bowser zinc zomac frame has almost completely disintegrated. I
                                                                    have
                                                                    > posted pictures of this find in my photo album here. Can anyone
                                                                    > identify the brass body?
                                                                    >
                                                                    > Notice someone had this set up as a 4-6-6-6. I believe there was
                                                                    no
                                                                    > such prototype? I did find that the C&O ran an Allegeny 2-6-6-6.
                                                                    >
                                                                    > I have started to reassemble this with some of my bowser parts put
                                                                    need
                                                                    > to place an order from Bowser.($) I found that the front frame
                                                                    needs
                                                                    > to shortened and the front cylinder moved back about 3/16 of an
                                                                    inch.
                                                                    > Before I start cutting does anyone have any suggestions?
                                                                    >
                                                                    > No Botchmann mentioned. I like that name.
                                                                    >
                                                                    > Larry
                                                                    >
                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 622 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 11/1/2005
                                                                    Subject: Fwd: [trainsallaspects] TCA's Museum
                                                                    Attachments :
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 623 From: Garry Spear Date: 11/1/2005
                                                                      Subject: Strombecker
                                                                      He is the (parts thereof) Strombecker RI Rocket. I have loaded 4 pictures.

                                                                      http://users.rcn.com/gspear01/S438a.jpg
                                                                      http://users.rcn.com/gspear01/S438b.jpg
                                                                      http://users.rcn.com/gspear01/S438c.jpg
                                                                      http://users.rcn.com/gspear01/S438d.jpg

                                                                      Two pictures of the car sides, one of the obs. end, and one of the truck
                                                                      used under the observation end.

                                                                      The locomotive was given (sold?) away many years ago. I'm cleaning
                                                                      house and need to get these out of the house.

                                                                      Any interest? If so, make me an offer. Otherwise I'll eBay them and if
                                                                      no bids trash.

                                                                      Garry Spear
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 624 From: Wobbly913 Date: 11/1/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Strombecker
                                                                      I do not like to price someone else's merchandise.  Please give us an idea of how much you would like to get for these old coaches.
                                                                       
                                                                      Wobbly913

                                                                      Garry Spear <gspear01@...> wrote:
                                                                      He is the (parts thereof) Strombecker RI Rocket.  I have loaded 4 pictures.

                                                                      http://users.rcn.com/gspear01/S438a.jpg
                                                                      http://users.rcn.com/gspear01/S438b.jpg
                                                                      http://users.rcn.com/gspear01/S438c.jpg
                                                                      http://users.rcn.com/gspear01/S438d.jpg

                                                                      Two pictures of the car sides, one of the obs. end, and one of the truck
                                                                      used under the observation end.

                                                                      The locomotive was given (sold?) away many years ago.  I'm cleaning
                                                                      house and need to get these out of the house.

                                                                      Any interest?  If so, make me an offer.  Otherwise I'll eBay them and if
                                                                      no bids trash.

                                                                      Garry Spear



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                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 625 From: Garry Spear Date: 11/1/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Strombecker
                                                                      Well, I'd like to get $100.00 HA HA!

                                                                      But getting back to reality I think $15 or so would be fair. That's
                                                                      10.00 for the cars and 5.00 for shipping. I live in the Phila. Pa area,
                                                                      so local pickup is an option.

                                                                      The silver paint is dirty, but might clean up or could be repainted.
                                                                      There only truck is for the obs end. The card board is very nice for
                                                                      the age. No major ding, nicks, or scratches.

                                                                      Hope this helps.

                                                                      Garry

                                                                      Wobbly913 wrote:
                                                                      > I do not like to price someone else's merchandise. Please give us an idea of how much you would like to get for these old coaches.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Wobbly913
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Garry Spear <gspear01@...> wrote:
                                                                      > He is the (parts thereof) Strombecker RI Rocket. I have loaded 4 pictures.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > http://users.rcn.com/gspear01/S438a.jpg
                                                                      > http://users.rcn.com/gspear01/S438b.jpg
                                                                      > http://users.rcn.com/gspear01/S438c.jpg
                                                                      > http://users.rcn.com/gspear01/S438d.jpg
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Two pictures of the car sides, one of the obs. end, and one of the truck
                                                                      > used under the observation end.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > The locomotive was given (sold?) away many years ago. I'm cleaning
                                                                      > house and need to get these out of the house.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Any interest? If so, make me an offer. Otherwise I'll eBay them and if
                                                                      > no bids trash.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Garry Spear
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > SPONSORED LINKS
                                                                      > G scale train Ho scale model train G scale model train N scale trains N scale train set Scale model train
                                                                      >
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                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 626 From: Don Riley Date: 11/1/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Strombecker
                                                                      How would one clean cardboard?
                                                                       
                                                                      Steamengine 4449

                                                                      Garry Spear <gspear01@...> wrote:
                                                                      Well, I'd like to get $100.00 HA HA!

                                                                      But getting back to reality I think $15 or so would be fair.  That's
                                                                      10.00 for the cars and 5.00 for shipping.  I live in the Phila. Pa area,
                                                                      so local pickup is an option.

                                                                      The silver paint is dirty, but might clean up or could be repainted.
                                                                      There only truck is for the obs end.  The card board is very nice for
                                                                      the age.  No major ding, nicks, or scratches.

                                                                      Hope this helps.

                                                                      Garry


                                                                      Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 627 From: Imp Ster Date: 11/1/2005
                                                                      Subject: Larry's 4-6-6-6, zinc notes
                                                                      interesting project - i also used an Athearn CV knuckle to replace a
                                                                      rubber drive coupling in an ancient Tenshodo kit for a 4-6-4.
                                                                      it really improved the starting torque since the motor no longer had
                                                                      to strain on flexing that fossilized rubber.

                                                                      looks like ya got it put back together ok - i just hope the driver
                                                                      centers dont start bulging, that would be tragic! - keep 'em oiled
                                                                      and they should be fine.

                                                                      old Zamac is the devil's playground, but you can stop the expansion
                                                                      cold by saturating it with ACC (the 'Dollar General' variety store
                                                                      has generic 'crazy glue', sold on the cheap at 2 vials for - you
                                                                      guessed it - a dollar.. no need to pay hobby shop prices for ACC
                                                                      unless you like that sort of thing heheheh)

                                                                      the lucky ones among us will find vintage zinc items that have been
                                                                      kept in tight packaging or with some oil residue keeping the metal
                                                                      fresh.
                                                                      such as the Ulrich kit of a drop-bottom gondola i found, that was
                                                                      still shiny metal! - it looked like it had just come off the foundry
                                                                      line!

                                                                      i read someplace that zinc expansion was due to slightly-impure metal
                                                                      cast at lower-than-ideal temps.
                                                                      so it stands to reason that "Monday morning" production would create
                                                                      a crop of lemons, but "Thursday afternoons" are still good for the
                                                                      ages...

                                                                      ...
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 628 From: Rudolf de Haas Date: 11/2/2005
                                                                      Subject: Varney 2-8-8-4 Yellowstone
                                                                      Hi folks,
                                                                      I was reading the articles about the 2-6-6-6 so I know there is some
                                                                      interest for these big heavy models. Therefore I want to show my latest
                                                                      project: the Varney 2-8-8-4 Yellowstone. These are some pictures made
                                                                      this summer, now it's almost finished and I'm really proud of it. It's
                                                                      the V2 version with the cast brass body and it moves nicely through the
                                                                      curves (but 28" minimum!). Check out the pictures I put in the Photo
                                                                      section. As you can see it's painted in the DM&IR livery with the nice
                                                                      gray boiler. It has a standard Varney tender but I'm working on a
                                                                      matching Kemtron centipede tender. I also have the pre-war Varney
                                                                      Yellowstone with the aluminum boiler, but on that one I'm going to work
                                                                      this winter... I'll let you folks know when it's finished!
                                                                      Regards from a rainy Holland,
                                                                      Rudolf
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 629 From: Garry Spear Date: 11/2/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Strombecker
                                                                      How would one clean cardboard?

                                                                      Very Carefully! There used to be a bag with ground up art gum eraser
                                                                      that draftsman and artists used to clean drawings and sketches. Likely
                                                                      this would work, but I don't know where to find one. Drafting supplies
                                                                      are a thing of the past.

                                                                      I might take an art gum eraser (the soft white-yellow kind) and see if I
                                                                      could grind it into small granules. Then using a soft brush, apply the
                                                                      ground up mixture and dust the items.

                                                                      Just no abrasives.

                                                                      Garry

                                                                      Don Riley wrote:
                                                                      > How would one clean cardboard?
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Steamengine 4449
                                                                      >
                                                                      > */Garry Spear <gspear01@...>/* wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Well, I'd like to get $100.00 HA HA!
                                                                      >
                                                                      > But getting back to reality I think $15 or so would be fair. That's
                                                                      > 10.00 for the cars and 5.00 for shipping. I live in the Phila. Pa
                                                                      > area,
                                                                      > so local pickup is an option.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > The silver paint is dirty, but might clean up or could be repainted.
                                                                      > There only truck is for the obs end. The card board is very nice for
                                                                      > the age. No major ding, nicks, or scratches.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Hope this helps.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Garry
                                                                      >
                                                                      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                      > Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
                                                                      > <http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTFqODRtdXQ4BF9TAzMyOTc1MDIEX3MDOTY2ODgxNjkEcG9zAzEEc2VjA21haWwtZm9vdGVyBHNsawNmYw--/SIG=110oav78o/**http%3a//farechase.yahoo.com/>
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                                                                      > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO>" on the web.
                                                                      >
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                                                                      >
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 630 From: Garry Spear Date: 11/2/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Larry's 4-6-6-6, zinc notes
                                                                      I have used the ACC, 'crazy glue', solution to bad casting for over 25
                                                                      years. Has always worked; even of larger Lionel and other Toy train
                                                                      castings.

                                                                      A Great Solution.

                                                                      Garry

                                                                      Imp Ster wrote:
                                                                      > interesting project - i also used an Athearn CV knuckle to replace a
                                                                      > rubber drive coupling in an ancient Tenshodo kit for a 4-6-4.
                                                                      > it really improved the starting torque since the motor no longer had
                                                                      > to strain on flexing that fossilized rubber.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > looks like ya got it put back together ok - i just hope the driver
                                                                      > centers dont start bulging, that would be tragic! - keep 'em oiled
                                                                      > and they should be fine.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > old Zamac is the devil's playground, but you can stop the expansion
                                                                      > cold by saturating it with ACC (the 'Dollar General' variety store
                                                                      > has generic 'crazy glue', sold on the cheap at 2 vials for - you
                                                                      > guessed it - a dollar.. no need to pay hobby shop prices for ACC
                                                                      > unless you like that sort of thing heheheh)
                                                                      >
                                                                      > the lucky ones among us will find vintage zinc items that have been
                                                                      > kept in tight packaging or with some oil residue keeping the metal
                                                                      > fresh.
                                                                      > such as the Ulrich kit of a drop-bottom gondola i found, that was
                                                                      > still shiny metal! - it looked like it had just come off the foundry
                                                                      > line!
                                                                      >
                                                                      > i read someplace that zinc expansion was due to slightly-impure metal
                                                                      > cast at lower-than-ideal temps.
                                                                      > so it stands to reason that "Monday morning" production would create
                                                                      > a crop of lemons, but "Thursday afternoons" are still good for the
                                                                      > ages...
                                                                      >
                                                                      > ...
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 631 From: Roger Aultman Date: 11/2/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Varney 2-8-8-4 Yellowstone
                                                                      A very nice looking assembly, did you use the original drive?
                                                                      Roger Aultman




                                                                      Rudolf de Haas wrote:
                                                                      > Hi folks,
                                                                      > I was reading the articles about the 2-6-6-6 so I know there is some
                                                                      > interest for these big heavy models. Therefore I want to show my latest
                                                                      > project: the Varney 2-8-8-4 Yellowstone. These are some pictures made
                                                                      > this summer, now it's almost finished and I'm really proud of it. It's
                                                                      > the V2 version with the cast brass body and it moves nicely through the
                                                                      > curves (but 28" minimum!). Check out the pictures I put in the Photo
                                                                      > section. As you can see it's painted in the DM&IR livery with the nice
                                                                      > gray boiler. It has a standard Varney tender but I'm working on a
                                                                      > matching Kemtron centipede tender. I also have the pre-war Varney
                                                                      > Yellowstone with the aluminum boiler, but on that one I'm going to work
                                                                      > this winter... I'll let you folks know when it's finished!
                                                                      > Regards from a rainy Holland,
                                                                      > Rudolf
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >


                                                                      --
                                                                      http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

                                                                      Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 632 From: redehaas@dds.nl Date: 11/2/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Varney 2-8-8-4 Yellowstone
                                                                      Hi Roger,
                                                                      Yes I've built it with the original assembly instructions printed in the 1950
                                                                      May/June issue of Model Railroader. It has two of the original sprung Varney
                                                                      drives with one V2 motor in it. I had some difficulties getting the clearance
                                                                      right between the front drivers and the boiler but that’s all fixed now and it
                                                                      runs smooth in the curves and switches. It’s quiet a heavy machine so the V2
                                                                      motor has some work powering it. The later Bowser Challengers and Big Boys have
                                                                      both sets of drivers powered, but this is impossible with my Yellowstone using
                                                                      the original Varney V2 drive.
                                                                      Rudolf



                                                                      Citeren Roger Aultman <raul@...>:

                                                                      > A very nice looking assembly, did you use the original drive?
                                                                      > Roger Aultman
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 633 From: Larry Date: 11/3/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Varney 2-8-8-4 Yellowstone
                                                                      Hello Rudolf

                                                                      You did a very nice job restoring the Varney Yellowstone 4-8-8-4. It
                                                                      must have taken you months or years to complete that project. I
                                                                      imagine with the limited availability of parts made this project even
                                                                      more difficult. You mentioned that you also had an aluminum boiler
                                                                      from a Yellowstone. Are you going to rebuild this with the original
                                                                      drives and V2 motor. The aluminum body must be lighter then the
                                                                      brass body. Is that going to present a problem with tracking or help
                                                                      by taking the load off the motor?

                                                                      What a great way to spend those damp cold days.
                                                                      Keep us informed on your progress.

                                                                      Larry

                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, redehaas@d... wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Hi Roger,
                                                                      > Yes I've built it with the original assembly instructions printed
                                                                      in the 1950
                                                                      > May/June issue of Model Railroader. It has two of the original
                                                                      sprung Varney
                                                                      > drives with one V2 motor in it. I had some difficulties getting the
                                                                      clearance
                                                                      > right between the front drivers and the boiler but that's all fixed
                                                                      now and it
                                                                      > runs smooth in the curves and switches. It's quiet a heavy machine
                                                                      so the V2
                                                                      > motor has some work powering it. The later Bowser Challengers and
                                                                      Big Boys have
                                                                      > both sets of drivers powered, but this is impossible with my
                                                                      Yellowstone using
                                                                      > the original Varney V2 drive.
                                                                      > Rudolf
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Citeren Roger Aultman <raul@n...>:
                                                                      >
                                                                      > > A very nice looking assembly, did you use the original drive?
                                                                      > > Roger Aultman
                                                                      >
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 634 From: redehaas@dds.nl Date: 11/3/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Varney 2-8-8-4 Yellowstone
                                                                      Hi Larry,
                                                                      First thanks to y’all for your nice compliments! As I said, I’m proud of it
                                                                      myself too because it’s a great machine! I’m collecting Varney for about 3 or 4
                                                                      years now. I got the brass Yellowstone about 3 years ago and all the parts were
                                                                      mostly complete (luckily), so collecting all the pars wasn’t a point. It took
                                                                      me about 2 months to build and used my precious spare time building it (+ as I
                                                                      said I’m still working on it)
                                                                      The pre-war aluminum boiler has the matching pre-war V1 motor + pre-war sprung
                                                                      drives. It’s not as powerful as the post-war V2 motor but therefore the boiler
                                                                      is much lighter. I got a copy of the original pre-war instructions, so building
                                                                      won’t be a problem. I’ve already finished the front drivers, but detailing the
                                                                      boiler is a lot of small work! I’ll send some pictures of my progress on the V1
                                                                      Yellowstone one of these days.
                                                                      Rudolf


                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Hello Rudolf
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > You did a very nice job restoring the Varney Yellowstone 4-8-8-4. It
                                                                      >
                                                                      > must have taken you months or years to complete that project. I
                                                                      >
                                                                      > imagine with the limited availability of parts made this project even
                                                                      >
                                                                      > more difficult.  You mentioned that you also had an aluminum boiler
                                                                      >
                                                                      > from a Yellowstone.  Are you going to rebuild this with the original
                                                                      >
                                                                      > drives and V2 motor.  The aluminum body must be lighter then the
                                                                      >
                                                                      > brass body.  Is that going to present a problem with tracking or help
                                                                      >
                                                                      > by taking the load off the motor?
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > What a great way to spend those damp cold days.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Keep us informed on your progress.
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Larry
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 635 From: Dave Slater Date: 11/6/2005
                                                                      Subject: Not very old 4-6-0...
                                                                      I have an oldish Rio Grande 4-6-0 that dates back to about
                                                                      1970 or 1971 that I purchased on vacation in Toronto Ont.
                                                                      There is no brand that I recognize on this just a "Made in
                                                                      Austria" on the underside of the emgineers side running
                                                                      board and the other side says "GES.GESCH". I'll ake some
                                                                      pics and post them later but for now I'm wondering if anyone
                                                                      can give me an idea on who made this unit???
                                                                      Dave S.
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 636 From: redehaas@dds.nl Date: 11/6/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Not very old 4-6-0...
                                                                      Hi Dave,
                                                                      If it says Austria, it could be AHM. AHM was made in Austria by Roco.
                                                                      Similar models were made by MTH (Mehano) in former Yougoslavia and Rivarossi
                                                                      in Italy. Maybe you can try searching on this link:
                                                                      http://tycotrain.tripod.com/ahmhoscaletrainscollectorsresource/id1.html
                                                                      Regards,
                                                                      Rudolf





                                                                      Citeren Dave Slater <daslater@...>:

                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > I have an oldish Rio Grande 4-6-0 that dates back to about
                                                                      >
                                                                      > 1970 or 1971 that I purchased on vacation in Toronto Ont.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > There is no brand that I recognize on this just a "Made in
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Austria" on the underside of the emgineers side running
                                                                      >
                                                                      > board and the other side says "GES.GESCH". I'll ake some
                                                                      >
                                                                      > pics and post them later but for now I'm wondering if anyone
                                                                      >
                                                                      > can give me an idea on who made this unit???
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Dave S.
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >  Visit your group "vintageHO" on the web.
                                                                      >  
                                                                      >  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                      >  vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 637 From: Garry Spear Date: 11/7/2005
                                                                      Subject: Re: Strombecker
                                                                      The cars are now listed on eBay. If anybody cares.

                                                                      Garry

                                                                      Garry Spear wrote:
                                                                      > Well, I'd like to get $100.00 HA HA!
                                                                      >
                                                                      > But getting back to reality I think $15 or so would be fair. That's
                                                                      > 10.00 for the cars and 5.00 for shipping. I live in the Phila. Pa area,
                                                                      > so local pickup is an option.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > The silver paint is dirty, but might clean up or could be repainted.
                                                                      > There only truck is for the obs end. The card board is very nice for
                                                                      > the age. No major ding, nicks, or scratches.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Hope this helps.
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Garry
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Wobbly913 wrote:
                                                                      >
                                                                      >>I do not like to price someone else's merchandise. Please give us an idea of how much you would like to get for these old coaches.
                                                                      >>
                                                                      >>Wobbly913
                                                                      >>
                                                                      >>Garry Spear <gspear01@...> wrote:
                                                                      >>He is the (parts thereof) Strombecker RI Rocket. I have loaded 4 pictures.
                                                                      >>
                                                                      >>http://users.rcn.com/gspear01/S438a.jpg
                                                                      >>http://users.rcn.com/gspear01/S438b.jpg
                                                                      >>http://users.rcn.com/gspear01/S438c.jpg
                                                                      >>http://users.rcn.com/gspear01/S438d.jpg
                                                                      >>
                                                                      >>Two pictures of the car sides, one of the obs. end, and one of the truck
                                                                      >>used under the observation end.
                                                                      >>
                                                                      >>The locomotive was given (sold?) away many years ago. I'm cleaning
                                                                      >>house and need to get these out of the house.
                                                                      >>
                                                                      >>Any interest? If so, make me an offer. Otherwise I'll eBay them and if
                                                                      >>no bids trash.
                                                                      >>
                                                                      >>Garry Spear
                                                                      >>
                                                                      >>
                                                                      >>
                                                                      >>SPONSORED LINKS
                                                                      >>G scale train Ho scale model train G scale model train N scale trains N scale train set Scale model train
                                                                      >>
                                                                      >>---------------------------------
                                                                      >>YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                      >>
                                                                      >>
                                                                      >> Visit your group "vintageHO" on the web.
                                                                      >>
                                                                      >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                      >> vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                      >>
                                                                      >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                                                      >>
                                                                      >>
                                                                      >>---------------------------------
                                                                      >>
                                                                      >>
                                                                      >>
                                                                      >>
                                                                      >>---------------------------------
                                                                      >> Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      >
                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 638 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/8/2005
                                                                      Subject: I Love eBay
                                                                      Attachments :
                                                                        I LOVE eBay!

                                                                        Two cardstock 40' double door single sheathed auto cars with Silver Streak
                                                                        sprung brass wheeled trucks and Kadee K-4's (photos to follow, they're still
                                                                        undergoing restoration), Two UNBUILT! Mainline 36' stock car kits (again,
                                                                        pics when they're done), and this Silverstreak boxcar, again with SS trucks
                                                                        and Kadee K-4's.

                                                                        All for a total of twenty bucks delivered !

                                                                        This one needed one door (which I had in the scrap box), roofwalk and end
                                                                        platforms, end ladders and brake
                                                                        gear. (I also still need to add the stirrup steps). But even so, for $4.00
                                                                        .........

                                                                        Don

                                                                        don.dellmann@...
                                                                        http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
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                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 639 From: don.dellmann Date: 11/8/2005
                                                                        Subject: Re: Not very old 4-6-0...
                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                        From: Dave Slater <daslater@...>
                                                                        To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                        Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 1:17 AM
                                                                        Subject: [vintageHO] Not very old 4-6-0...


                                                                        > I have an oldish Rio Grande 4-6-0 that dates back to about
                                                                        > 1970 or 1971 that I purchased on vacation in Toronto Ont.
                                                                        > There is no brand that I recognize on this just a "Made in
                                                                        > Austria" on the underside of the emgineers side running
                                                                        > board and the other side says "GES.GESCH". I'll ake some
                                                                        > pics and post them later but for now I'm wondering if anyone
                                                                        > can give me an idea on who made this unit???
                                                                        > Dave S.

                                                                        Can you post a picture?

                                                                        Don

                                                                        don.dellmann@...
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                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 640 From: Dave Slater Date: 11/9/2005
                                                                        Subject: Re: Not very old 4-6-0...
                                                                        Don, Will do, tied the other night but I was so tired I kept hitting wrong buttons..  <VBG>
                                                                        Pics will be in "Dave's Dungeon" in the groups files area..
                                                                        Dave S.

                                                                        "don.dellmann" wrote:

                                                                         
                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                        From: Dave Slater <daslater@...>
                                                                        To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                        Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 1:17 AM
                                                                        Subject: [vintageHO] Not very old 4-6-0...
                                                                         

                                                                        > I have an oldish Rio Grande 4-6-0 that dates back to about
                                                                        > 1970 or 1971 that I purchased on vacation in Toronto Ont.
                                                                        > There is no brand that I recognize on this just a "Made in
                                                                        > Austria" on the underside of the emgineers side running
                                                                        > board and the other side says "GES.GESCH". I'll ake some
                                                                        > pics and post them later but for now I'm wondering if anyone
                                                                        > can give me an idea on who made this unit???
                                                                        > Dave S.

                                                                        Can you post a picture?

                                                                        Don

                                                                        don.dellmann@...
                                                                        http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
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                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 641 From: don.dellmann Date: 11/12/2005
                                                                        Subject: Re: Not very old 4-6-0...
                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                        From: Dave Slater <daslater@...>
                                                                        To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                        Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 7:01 AM
                                                                        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Not very old 4-6-0...


                                                                        > Don, Will do, tied the other night but I was so tired I kept
                                                                        > hitting wrong buttons.. <VBG>
                                                                        > Pics will be in "Dave's Dungeon" in the groups files area..
                                                                        > Dave S.
                                                                        >
                                                                        > "don.dellmann" wrote:

                                                                        Can't tell, I've never seen it before. That tender has almost a european
                                                                        look to it though. Add buffers and it'd be very German. I wonder if
                                                                        whoever produced it used modified dies from another model.

                                                                        Don

                                                                        don.dellmann@...
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                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 642 From: Dave Slater Date: 11/12/2005
                                                                        Subject: Re: Not very old 4-6-0...
                                                                        Don,
                                                                        You could be right about that. Was that a common practice about 35 years ago???
                                                                        Dave S.

                                                                        "don.dellmann" wrote:

                                                                         
                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                        From: Dave Slater <daslater@...>
                                                                        To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                        Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 7:01 AM
                                                                        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Not very old 4-6-0...
                                                                         

                                                                        > Don, Will do, tied the other night but I was so tired I kept
                                                                        > hitting wrong buttons..  <VBG>
                                                                        > Pics will be in "Dave's Dungeon" in the groups files area..
                                                                        > Dave S.
                                                                        >
                                                                        > "don.dellmann" wrote:

                                                                        Can't tell, I've never seen it before.  That tender has almost a european
                                                                        look to it though.  Add buffers and it'd be very German.  I wonder if
                                                                        whoever produced it used modified dies from another model.

                                                                        Don

                                                                        don.dellmann@...
                                                                        http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
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                                                                        No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.0/167 - Release Date: 11/11/2005

                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 643 From: don.dellmann Date: 11/12/2005
                                                                        Subject: Re: Not very old 4-6-0...
                                                                        Fleischman was famous for putting US roadnames on european equipment (case
                                                                        in point, the UP and NH passenger cars that were actually Swiss prototypes).
                                                                        It wouldn't surprise me if other manufacturers did too.

                                                                        The cab also has a European look to it.

                                                                        Don

                                                                        don.dellmann@...
                                                                        http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
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                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                        From: Dave Slater <daslater@...>
                                                                        To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                        Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2005 9:17 AM
                                                                        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Not very old 4-6-0...


                                                                        > Don,
                                                                        > You could be right about that. Was that a common practice
                                                                        > about 35 years ago???
                                                                        > Dave S.
                                                                        >
                                                                        > "don.dellmann" wrote:
                                                                        >
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                        > > From: Dave Slater <daslater@...>
                                                                        > > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                        > > Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 7:01 AM
                                                                        > > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Not very old 4-6-0...
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > > Don, Will do, tied the other night but I was so tired I
                                                                        > > kept
                                                                        > > > hitting wrong buttons.. <VBG>
                                                                        > > > Pics will be in "Dave's Dungeon" in the groups files
                                                                        > > area..
                                                                        > > > Dave S.
                                                                        > > >
                                                                        > > > "don.dellmann" wrote:
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > Can't tell, I've never seen it before. That tender has
                                                                        > > almost a european
                                                                        > > look to it though. Add buffers and it'd be very German.
                                                                        > > I wonder if
                                                                        > > whoever produced it used modified dies from another model.
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > Don
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > don.dellmann@...
                                                                        > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                        > > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                        > > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                        > > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                        > > co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > SPONSORED LINKS
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > G scale train Ho scale model Model train n scale
                                                                        > train
                                                                        >
                                                                        > G scale model Ho scale trains N scale trains
                                                                        > train
                                                                        >
                                                                        > > -----------------------------------------------------------
                                                                        > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > + Visit your group "vintageHO" on the web.
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > + To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                                                                        > >
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                                                                        > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                                                        > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                                                        > > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.0/167 - Release
                                                                        > > Date: 11/11/2005
                                                                        > >
                                                                        >
                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 644 From: Dave Slater Date: 11/12/2005
                                                                        Subject: Re: Not very old 4-6-0...
                                                                        The cab has a small "recess" in the sides with the number 383832 init, this is all black a very small making it hard to see....
                                                                        Dave S.
                                                                        PS Will post a couple more pics later
                                                                        "don.dellmann" wrote:
                                                                         Fleischman was famous for putting US roadnames on european equipment (case
                                                                        in point, the UP and NH passenger cars that were actually Swiss prototypes).
                                                                        It wouldn't surprise me if other manufacturers did too.

                                                                        The cab also has a European look to it.

                                                                        Don

                                                                        don.dellmann@...
                                                                        http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                        moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
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                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                        From: Dave Slater <daslater@...>
                                                                        To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                        Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2005 9:17 AM
                                                                        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Not very old 4-6-0...
                                                                         

                                                                        > Don,
                                                                        > You could be right about that. Was that a common practice
                                                                        > about 35 years ago???
                                                                        > Dave S.
                                                                        >
                                                                        > "don.dellmann" wrote:
                                                                        >
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                        > > From: Dave Slater <daslater@...>
                                                                        > > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                        > > Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 7:01 AM
                                                                        > > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Not very old 4-6-0...
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > > Don, Will do, tied the other night but I was so tired I
                                                                        > > kept
                                                                        > > > hitting wrong buttons..  <VBG>
                                                                        > > > Pics will be in "Dave's Dungeon" in the groups files
                                                                        > > area..
                                                                        > > > Dave S.
                                                                        > > >
                                                                        > > > "don.dellmann" wrote:
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > Can't tell, I've never seen it before.  That tender has
                                                                        > > almost a european
                                                                        > > look to it though.  Add buffers and it'd be very German.
                                                                        > > I wonder if
                                                                        > > whoever produced it used modified dies from another model.
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > Don
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > don.dellmann@...
                                                                        > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                        > > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                        > > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                        > > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                        > > co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > SPONSORED LINKS
                                                                        > >
                                                                        >     G scale train      Ho scale model      Model train n scale
                                                                        >                        train
                                                                        >
                                                                        >     G scale model      Ho scale trains     N scale trains
                                                                        >     train
                                                                        >
                                                                        > > -----------------------------------------------------------
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                                                                        > >
                                                                        > >    +  Visit your group "vintageHO" on the web.
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > >    +  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                                                                        > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                                                        > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                                                        > > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.0/167 - Release
                                                                        > > Date: 11/11/2005
                                                                        > >
                                                                        >


                                                                        No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.0/167 - Release Date: 11/11/2005

                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 645 From: don.dellmann Date: 11/13/2005
                                                                        Subject: Re: Not very old 4-6-0...
                                                                        Even more evidence of it's European Heritage.

                                                                        Don

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                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                        From: Dave Slater <daslater@...>
                                                                        To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                        Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2005 11:33 PM
                                                                        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Not very old 4-6-0...


                                                                        > The cab has a small "recess" in the sides with the number
                                                                        > 383832 init, this is all black a very small making it hard
                                                                        > to see....
                                                                        > Dave S.
                                                                        > PS Will post a couple more pics later
                                                                        > "don.dellmann" wrote:
                                                                        >
                                                                        > > Fleischman was famous for putting US roadnames on
                                                                        > > european equipment (case
                                                                        > > in point, the UP and NH passenger cars that were actually
                                                                        > > Swiss prototypes).
                                                                        > > It wouldn't surprise me if other manufacturers did too.
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > The cab also has a European look to it.
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > Don
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > don.dellmann@...
                                                                        > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                        > > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                        > > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                        > > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                        > > co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                        > > From: Dave Slater <daslater@...>
                                                                        > > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                        > > Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2005 9:17 AM
                                                                        > > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Not very old 4-6-0...
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > > Don,
                                                                        > > > You could be right about that. Was that a common
                                                                        > > practice
                                                                        > > > about 35 years ago???
                                                                        > > > Dave S.
                                                                        > > >
                                                                        > > > "don.dellmann" wrote:
                                                                        > > >
                                                                        > > > >
                                                                        > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                        > > > > From: Dave Slater <daslater@...>
                                                                        > > > > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                        > > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 7:01 AM
                                                                        > > > > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Not very old 4-6-0...
                                                                        > > > >
                                                                        > > > >
                                                                        > > > > > Don, Will do, tied the other night but I was so
                                                                        > > tired I
                                                                        > > > > kept
                                                                        > > > > > hitting wrong buttons.. <VBG>
                                                                        > > > > > Pics will be in "Dave's Dungeon" in the groups files
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > > > area..
                                                                        > > > > > Dave S.
                                                                        > > > > >
                                                                        > > > > > "don.dellmann" wrote:
                                                                        > > > >
                                                                        > > > > Can't tell, I've never seen it before. That tender
                                                                        > > has
                                                                        > > > > almost a european
                                                                        > > > > look to it though. Add buffers and it'd be very
                                                                        > > German.
                                                                        > > > > I wonder if
                                                                        > > > > whoever produced it used modified dies from another
                                                                        > > model.
                                                                        > > > >
                                                                        > > > > Don
                                                                        > > > >
                                                                        > > > > don.dellmann@...
                                                                        > > > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                        > > > > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                        > > > > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                        > > > > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                        > > > > co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                        > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                        > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                        > > > >
                                                                        > > > >
                                                                        > > > >
                                                                        > > > > SPONSORED LINKS
                                                                        > > > >
                                                                        > > > G scale train Ho scale model Model train n
                                                                        > > scale
                                                                        > > > train
                                                                        > > >
                                                                        > > > G scale model Ho scale trains N scale
                                                                        > > trains
                                                                        > > > train
                                                                        > > >
                                                                        > > > >
                                                                        > > -----------------------------------------------------------
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                        > > > >
                                                                        > > > > + Visit your group "vintageHO" on the web.
                                                                        > > > >
                                                                        > > > > + To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
                                                                        > > to:
                                                                        > > > > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                        > > > >
                                                                        > > > > + Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
                                                                        > > Yahoo!
                                                                        > > > > Terms of Service.
                                                                        > > > >
                                                                        > > > >
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                                                                        > > > >
                                                                        > > > >
                                                                        > > -----------------------------------------------------
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                                                                        > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                                                        > > > > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.0/167 -
                                                                        > > Release
                                                                        > > > > Date: 11/11/2005
                                                                        > > > >
                                                                        > > >
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > -----------------------------------------------------------
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                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > + Visit your group "vintageHO" on the web.
                                                                        > >
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                                                                        > >
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                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > -----------------------------------------------------------
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                                                                        > > -----------------------------------------------------
                                                                        > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                                                        > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                                                        > > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.0/167 - Release
                                                                        > > Date: 11/11/2005
                                                                        > >
                                                                        >
                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 646 From: AL Date: 11/21/2005
                                                                        Subject: old rolling stock plans
                                                                        Was curious if anyone knew of, could point the way to any of the
                                                                        old rolling stock plans, possibly someone has posted online or ?
                                                                        I was thinking on this issue while working on, sorting through a
                                                                        couple old Ambroid kits I picked up .

                                                                        Specifically I'm refering to the wood kits (Ambroid,Quality
                                                                        Craft,etc), but could be others as well.

                                                                        if the plans fo rthese cars were available, they would be rather
                                                                        easily constructed using materials still available ( ie:
                                                                        Northeastern still sells many of the milled shapes,etc as used in
                                                                        these kits ) .

                                                                        cast metal details and specifically car ends could be cast in
                                                                        urethane or even white metal as original .

                                                                        Was thinking of a project to collect this info and share it, seems
                                                                        many modellers are unwilling to 'give up' thier treasures, or post
                                                                        the info.. maybe just noone's thought of the idea yet.

                                                                        my other hobby ( please, stop the beatings.... ) besides building /
                                                                        collecting old HO is model rockets.
                                                                        the members of the rocketry community have assembled a huge
                                                                        database with vintage kit plans,patterns,and information, including
                                                                        decal scans,parts lists and such, to where an identical copy (
                                                                        clone) of long out of production kits can be made with available
                                                                        parts, or old stock parts if available.

                                                                        http://plans.rocketshoppe.com/

                                                                        check this link for details,on what I'm eluding to .

                                                                        a similar site, with vintage Ambroid,Red Ball,Quality Craft,
                                                                        Laconia,etc plans would be great - if the decals were included, then
                                                                        rolling stock could be made and decoreated,using modern technology
                                                                        such as home-printed decorating - in fact why not 'home printed'
                                                                        cardstock car sides ?

                                                                        I'd be willing to put in some hours working on such an effort /
                                                                        website, if any interest in colelcting the plans etc ?

                                                                        open to ideas , suggestions, links to existing info ?

                                                                        ~ AL
                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 647 From: Larry Stevenson Date: 11/22/2005
                                                                        Subject: Re: old rolling stock plans
                                                                        Hello AL
                                                                         
                                                                        I have started a site with a section that is similiar to your idea. Many hours have already been put into this.  Although there are no AMbroid plans there yet.  I have only one or two diagrams for ambroid to post.  If you want to email a copy of the plans you have to me.  I will post them there within the web site, with a watermark of your name or handle on them.   
                                                                         
                                                                        If you want to visit the site
                                                                         
                                                                         
                                                                        Larry
                                                                         


                                                                        AL <Sailordoode@...> wrote:

                                                                        Was curious if anyone knew of, could point the way to any of the
                                                                        old rolling stock plans, possibly someone has posted online or ?
                                                                        I was thinking on this issue while working on, sorting through a
                                                                        couple old Ambroid kits I picked up .

                                                                        Specifically I'm refering to the wood kits (Ambroid,Quality
                                                                        Craft,etc), but could be others as well.

                                                                        if the plans fo rthese cars were available, they would be rather
                                                                        easily constructed using materials still available ( ie:
                                                                        Northeastern still sells many of the milled shapes,etc as used in
                                                                        these kits ) .

                                                                        cast metal details and specifically car ends could be cast in
                                                                        urethane or even white metal as original .

                                                                        Was thinking of a project to collect this info and share it, seems
                                                                        many modellers are unwilling to 'give up' thier treasures, or post
                                                                        the info.. maybe just noone's thought of the idea yet.

                                                                        my other hobby ( please, stop the beatings.... ) besides building /
                                                                        collecting old HO is model rockets.
                                                                        the members of the rocketry community have assembled a huge
                                                                        database with vintage kit plans,patterns,and information, including
                                                                        decal scans,parts lists and such, to where an identical copy (
                                                                        clone) of long out of production kits can be made with available
                                                                        parts, or old stock parts if available.

                                                                        http://plans.rocketshoppe.com/

                                                                        check this link for details,on what I'm eluding to .

                                                                        a similar site, with vintage Ambroid,Red Ball,Quality Craft,
                                                                        Laconia,etc plans would be great - if the decals were included, then
                                                                        rolling stock could be made and decoreated,using modern technology
                                                                        such as home-printed decorating - in fact why not 'home printed'
                                                                        cardstock car sides ?

                                                                        I'd be willing to put in some hours working on such an effort /
                                                                        website, if any interest in colelcting the plans etc ?

                                                                        open to ideas , suggestions, links to existing info ?

                                                                        ~ AL






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                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 648 From: don.dellmann Date: 11/22/2005
                                                                        Subject: Re: old rolling stock plans
                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                        From: Larry Stevenson <seekingho@...>
                                                                        To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                        Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 6:05 AM
                                                                        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] old rolling stock plans


                                                                        > Hello AL
                                                                        >
                                                                        > I have started a site with a section that is similiar to your idea. Many
                                                                        hours have already been put into this. Although there are no AMbroid plans
                                                                        there yet. I have only one or two diagrams for ambroid to post. If you
                                                                        want to email a copy of the plans you have to me. I will post them there
                                                                        within the web site, with a watermark of your name or handle on them.
                                                                        >
                                                                        > If you want to visit the site
                                                                        >
                                                                        > www.hoseeker.net
                                                                        > www.hoseeker.net/lit
                                                                        >
                                                                        > Larry

                                                                        Could you please put that URL in our "links" section? I know many members
                                                                        would be interested.

                                                                        Thanks

                                                                        Don

                                                                        don.dellmann@...
                                                                        http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                        moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                        moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                        moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                        co-moderator: SCENERY@...
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                                                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 649 From: Larry Date: 11/22/2005
                                                                        Subject: Re: old rolling stock plans
                                                                        Hello Don

                                                                        I posted the address to my website in the links section. Can anyone
                                                                        help with material to build this site. I have almost posted all of
                                                                        my personel material. I am sure many people would benefit from any
                                                                        contributions of pictures, diagrams, sales lists that could be made.
                                                                        I started the site last February and finally got it on line in May.
                                                                        It has been a major project. More work then I ever intended.

                                                                        Larry

                                                                        http://www.hoseeker.net/lit.html
                                                                        http://www.hoseeker.net/otherhotrains.html




                                                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...>
                                                                        wrote:
                                                                        >
                                                                        >
                                                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                        > From: Larry Stevenson <seekingho@y...>
                                                                        > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                        > Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 6:05 AM
                                                                        > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] old rolling stock plans
                                                                        >
                                                                        >
                                                                        > > Hello AL
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > I have started a site with a section that is similiar to your
                                                                        idea. Many
                                                                        > hours have already been put into this. Although there are no
                                                                        AMbroid plans
                                                                        > there yet. I have only one or two diagrams for ambroid to post.
                                                                        If you
                                                                        > want to email a copy of the plans you have to me. I will post them
                                                                        there
                                                                        > within the web site, with a watermark of your name or handle on
                                                                        them.
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > If you want to visit the site
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > www.hoseeker.net
                                                                        > > www.hoseeker.net/lit
                                                                        > >
                                                                        > > Larry
                                                                        >
                                                                        > Could you please put that URL in our "links" section? I know many
                                                                        members
                                                                        > would be interested.
                                                                        >
                                                                        > Thanks
                                                                        >
                                                                        > Don
                                                                        >
                                                                        > don.dellmann@p...
                                                                        > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                        > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                        > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                        > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                        > co-moderator: SCENERY@Y...
                                                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                        >
                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 650 From: oljoeoh Date: 11/22/2005
                                                                        Subject: Mantua 0-6-0
                                                                        I have one of these WITH the optional valve gear assy.
                                                                        Does anyone here know what the size of the hex
                                                                        screw is that holds both the valve gear crank
                                                                        and the siderod. Mine has loosened and needs
                                                                        tightening. I thought I had the right hex nut
                                                                        thing but it won't work. I seem to remmeber a
                                                                        small, but effective, piece of brass tubing
                                                                        that was included with the kit to accomplish
                                                                        the task of making the screws tight. I would
                                                                        really like to get my hands on another one
                                                                        if possible if anyone has one.
                                                                        Joe O'Loughlin
                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 651 From: oljoeoh Date: 11/22/2005
                                                                        Subject: Roundhouse 0-6-0 from the 50's
                                                                        I have one of these. The 3rd driver
                                                                        from the front has a screw that secures
                                                                        both of the siderods to the driver. After
                                                                        I took it apart I noticed a small washer that
                                                                        WAS on the shaft of the screw. Unfortunately
                                                                        I don't know where it was at on the screw (on
                                                                        the outside between the hex head and the siderod,
                                                                        on the inside between the 2 siderods, between
                                                                        the siderod and the driver. It will go in any
                                                                        of those 3 places but I don't know which. Unfortunately
                                                                        I had removed both of the hex screws before I noticed
                                                                        the washer so I don't know where it goes. I' guessing
                                                                        it goes between the 2 siderods. I had looke before I
                                                                        took it apart but just didn't see it and where it
                                                                        belongs. Anybody know? Anybody have a copy of
                                                                        the assy direction for this item?
                                                                        Joe O'Loughlin
                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 652 From: Roger Aultman Date: 11/22/2005
                                                                        Subject: Re: Roundhouse 0-6-0 from the 50's
                                                                        Attachments :
                                                                          Attached is a scan of the assembly of the mechanism, sounds like you
                                                                          need two washers on each side. Will also put in the files section.
                                                                          Roger Aultman






                                                                          oljoeoh wrote:
                                                                          > I have one of these. The 3rd driver
                                                                          > from the front has a screw that secures
                                                                          > both of the siderods to the driver. After
                                                                          > I took it apart I noticed a small washer that
                                                                          > WAS on the shaft of the screw. Unfortunately
                                                                          > I don't know where it was at on the screw (on
                                                                          > the outside between the hex head and the siderod,
                                                                          > on the inside between the 2 siderods, between
                                                                          > the siderod and the driver. It will go in any
                                                                          > of those 3 places but I don't know which. Unfortunately
                                                                          > I had removed both of the hex screws before I noticed
                                                                          > the washer so I don't know where it goes. I' guessing
                                                                          > it goes between the 2 siderods. I had looke before I
                                                                          > took it apart but just didn't see it and where it
                                                                          > belongs. Anybody know? Anybody have a copy of
                                                                          > the assy direction for this item?
                                                                          > Joe O'Loughlin
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >


                                                                          --
                                                                          http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

                                                                          Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 653 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 11/22/2005
                                                                          Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
                                                                          Hello,

                                                                          This email message is a notification to let you know that
                                                                          a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vintageHO
                                                                          group.

                                                                          File : /roundhouse01.jpg
                                                                          Uploaded by : roger_aultman <raul@...>
                                                                          Description : Assembly off Roundhouse 0-6-0 mechanism

                                                                          You can access this file at the URL:
                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/roundhouse01.jpg

                                                                          To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
                                                                          http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

                                                                          Regards,

                                                                          roger_aultman <raul@...>
                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 654 From: Roger Aultman Date: 11/22/2005
                                                                          Subject: Re: Mantua 0-6-0
                                                                          I thik they are 0-80, Walthers should list wrenches for the hex head
                                                                          version. Roger Aultman



                                                                          oljoeoh wrote:
                                                                          > I have one of these WITH the optional valve gear assy.
                                                                          > Does anyone here know what the size of the hex
                                                                          > screw is that holds both the valve gear crank
                                                                          > and the siderod. Mine has loosened and needs
                                                                          > tightening. I thought I had the right hex nut
                                                                          > thing but it won't work. I seem to remmeber a
                                                                          > small, but effective, piece of brass tubing
                                                                          > that was included with the kit to accomplish
                                                                          > the task of making the screws tight. I would
                                                                          > really like to get my hands on another one
                                                                          > if possible if anyone has one.
                                                                          > Joe O'Loughlin
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >


                                                                          --
                                                                          http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

                                                                          Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 655 From: AL Date: 11/22/2005
                                                                          Subject: Re: Digest Number 197
                                                                          > I have started a site with a section that is similiar to your idea. Many
                                                                          hours have already been put into this. Although there are no AMbroid plans
                                                                          there yet. I have only one or two diagrams for ambroid to post. If you
                                                                          want to email a copy of the plans you have to me. I will post them there
                                                                          within the web site, with a watermark of your name or handle on them.
                                                                          >
                                                                          > If you want to visit the site
                                                                          >
                                                                          > www.hoseeker.net

                                                                          looking around the site now - looks nice.

                                                                          some of those ,such as the Bowser drawings, will come in handy over the
                                                                          winter, too ( I have a box of 4-5 old Penn Line locos I purchased, will be
                                                                          rebuilding and repainting, not exactly Bowser per the drawings, but same
                                                                          basic shells ,less detail parts ( for now ;-)

                                                                          I will certainly see what I have to send / contribute tot he site, so will
                                                                          keep in touch.

                                                                          I definately have some old Athearn, Varney and similar plans / instruction
                                                                          diagrams sheets, so will check against what you have posted.

                                                                          The ones, as I was thinking, would be more 'craftsman' kits, whereby the
                                                                          kit could be duplicated if builder had the drawings ( ie: the actual
                                                                          patterns,etc... hard to do with plastic or metal kits, unfortunately ).
                                                                          will send what I have so far as well ( a few Ambroid,Quality
                                                                          Craft,Laconia,maybe a couple LaBelle .. I also have a few Suydam cardstock
                                                                          buildings, that could be scanned and built from that info, if any interest,
                                                                          drop me a line .

                                                                          I've always thought 'wood is good', hence my interest in vintage craftsman
                                                                          kits older than myself, lol ...
                                                                          after noting that Northeastern still sells most of the stripwood,car roof
                                                                          stock,etc ( and purchasing a bunch through Walthers), I'm now on a 'quest'
                                                                          as-it-were, to find plans for more items to build :-)

                                                                          well, back to checking otu your site, thanks .

                                                                          ~ AL
                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 656 From: don.dellmann Date: 11/22/2005
                                                                          Subject: Re: old rolling stock plans
                                                                          I have a couple I can scan and send you. Not REAL old, but old enough. I'm
                                                                          pretty sure I still have the plans for an Ambroid Milwaukee Raod 50' rib
                                                                          side, and I KNOW I have the Mainline 36' stock car (at least I'd better, I
                                                                          have two kits I haven't put together yet.) and a couple quality crafts.
                                                                          I'll have to dig around the basement tonight.

                                                                          Don

                                                                          don.dellmann@...
                                                                          http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
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                                                                          moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
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                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO

                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                          From: Larry <seekingho@...>
                                                                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                          Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 7:20 AM
                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: old rolling stock plans


                                                                          > Hello Don
                                                                          >
                                                                          > I posted the address to my website in the links section. Can anyone
                                                                          > help with material to build this site. I have almost posted all of
                                                                          > my personel material. I am sure many people would benefit from any
                                                                          > contributions of pictures, diagrams, sales lists that could be made.
                                                                          > I started the site last February and finally got it on line in May.
                                                                          > It has been a major project. More work then I ever intended.
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Larry
                                                                          >
                                                                          > http://www.hoseeker.net/lit.html
                                                                          > http://www.hoseeker.net/otherhotrains.html
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...>
                                                                          > wrote:
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                          > > From: Larry Stevenson <seekingho@y...>
                                                                          > > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                          > > Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 6:05 AM
                                                                          > > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] old rolling stock plans
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > > Hello AL
                                                                          > > >
                                                                          > > > I have started a site with a section that is similiar to your
                                                                          > idea. Many
                                                                          > > hours have already been put into this. Although there are no
                                                                          > AMbroid plans
                                                                          > > there yet. I have only one or two diagrams for ambroid to post.
                                                                          > If you
                                                                          > > want to email a copy of the plans you have to me. I will post them
                                                                          > there
                                                                          > > within the web site, with a watermark of your name or handle on
                                                                          > them.
                                                                          > > >
                                                                          > > > If you want to visit the site
                                                                          > > >
                                                                          > > > www.hoseeker.net
                                                                          > > > www.hoseeker.net/lit
                                                                          > > >
                                                                          > > > Larry
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > Could you please put that URL in our "links" section? I know many
                                                                          > members
                                                                          > > would be interested.
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > Thanks
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > Don
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > don.dellmann@p...
                                                                          > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                          > > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                          > > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                          > > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                          > > co-moderator: SCENERY@Y...
                                                                          > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                          > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                          > >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                          ------
                                                                          > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
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                                                                          >
                                                                          > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                                                                          >
                                                                          > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
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                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 657 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 11/22/2005
                                                                          Subject: Re: Mantua 0-6-0
                                                                          I can't remember the size off the top of my head. 
                                                                           What I use is a set screw with a hex head as a socket to tighten the screws.

                                                                          oljoeoh <oljoe@...> wrote:
                                                                          I have one of these WITH the optional valve gear assy.
                                                                          Does anyone here know what the size of the hex
                                                                          screw is that holds both the valve gear crank
                                                                          and the siderod.  Mine has loosened and needs
                                                                          tightening.  I thought I had the right hex nut
                                                                          thing but it won't work.  I seem to remmeber a
                                                                          small, but effective, piece of brass tubing
                                                                          that was included with the kit to accomplish
                                                                          the task of making the screws tight.  I would
                                                                          really like to get my hands on another one
                                                                          if possible if anyone has one.
                                                                          Joe O'Loughlin






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                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 658 From: Thomas Businger Date: 11/22/2005
                                                                          Subject: Re: Roundhouse 0-6-0 from the 50's
                                                                          Joe, I have a Model Die Casting Co. Roundhouse Products 0-6-0 Switcher kit (complete) 2L1 in original box assembled, unfortunately no instructions in the box.... :(((  Viewing it from the bottom, front of engine facing away from me on the left side is the screw, which is not flush with the siderod, it protrudes a bit, the siderod, looks like diecast metal, the second siderod in brassand the driver.  On the right, is the outer siderod, a very small piece of brass that may be the washer you are referring to, the second siderod, and the driver. 
                                                                          If you need it I can try to take a picture and post it or email it to you.  This was my Dad's locomotive, and as a kid, (50 now) I remember running it on a small switching shelf he had. It ran great.  The only thing "wrong" with it is the fiberboard drawbar between the loco and tender is broken and the paint job has flaked off a bit.  I am running a DCC layout, but when I have the time may set it up for use, it has the Pittman motor ( I think).  If anyone needs help with late 40's early 50's Roundhouse, Varney, I have several instrucion sheets and about 30 various freight cars, a couple of Varney F diesels, they are in a pieces but I know Dad had them together at one time, and I think some vintage Tyco??? 0-4-0 switchers.  All locos and most of the cars are diecast.
                                                                          BTW Dad is still with us and loves to come over and operate on my layout. :) He never had the time of money to build one with raising 6 kids.
                                                                          Tom Businger, Westlake, Ohio

                                                                          oljoeoh <oljoe@...> wrote:
                                                                          I have one of these. The 3rd driver
                                                                          from the front has a screw that secures
                                                                          both of the siderods to the driver. After
                                                                          I took it apart I noticed a small washer that
                                                                          WAS on the shaft of the screw. Unfortunately
                                                                          I don't know where it was at on the screw (on
                                                                          the outside between the hex head and the siderod,
                                                                          on the inside between the 2 siderods, between
                                                                          the siderod and the driver. It will go in any
                                                                          of those 3 places but I don't know which. Unfortunately
                                                                          I had removed both of the hex screws before I noticed
                                                                          the washer so I don't know where it goes. I' guessing
                                                                          it goes between the 2 siderods. I had looke before I
                                                                          took it apart but just didn't see it and where it
                                                                          belongs. Anybody know? Anybody have a copy of
                                                                          the assy direction for this item?
                                                                          Joe O'Loughlin






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                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 659 From: oljoe@landolls.com Date: 11/23/2005
                                                                          Subject: Re: Roundhouse 0-6-0 from the 50's
                                                                          Tom...
                                                                          If I read you right... the washer is sitting on the screw shaft
                                                                          between the head of the screw and the siderod? Looks to me like
                                                                          the siderod has an indentation about the size of the washer. If
                                                                          that is where it is it must be there to prevent the head of the
                                                                          screw from rubbing on the rod while everything is moving. I tried
                                                                          it in that position but couldn't quite believe thats where it
                                                                          goes. The motor is a Pittman.
                                                                          I am really surprised at the many similarities between the Roundhouse
                                                                          and Mantua examples.

                                                                          Thanks for your observations and help
                                                                          Joe O'Loughlin

                                                                          Thomas Businger wrote:
                                                                          > Joe, I have a Model Die Casting Co. Roundhouse Products 0-6-0 Switcher
                                                                          > kit (complete) 2L1 in original box assembled, unfortunately no
                                                                          > instructions in the box.... :((( Viewing it from the bottom, front of
                                                                          > engine facing away from me on the left side is the screw, which is not
                                                                          > flush with the siderod, it protrudes a bit, the siderod, looks like
                                                                          > diecast metal, the second siderod in brassand the driver. On the right,
                                                                          > is the outer siderod, a very small piece of brass that may be the washer
                                                                          > you are referring to, the second siderod, and the driver.
                                                                          > If you need it I can try to take a picture and post it or email it to
                                                                          > you. This was my Dad's locomotive, and as a kid, (50 now) I remember
                                                                          > running it on a small switching shelf he had. It ran great. The only
                                                                          > thing "wrong" with it is the fiberboard drawbar between the loco and
                                                                          > tender is broken and the paint job has flaked off a bit. I am running a
                                                                          > DCC layout, but when I have the time may set it up for use, it has the
                                                                          > Pittman motor ( I think). If anyone needs help with late 40's early
                                                                          > 50's Roundhouse, Varney, I have several instrucion sheets and about 30
                                                                          > various freight cars, a couple of Varney F diesels, they are in a pieces
                                                                          > but I know Dad had them together at one time, and I think some vintage
                                                                          > Tyco??? 0-4-0 switchers. All locos and most of the cars are diecast.
                                                                          > BTW Dad is still with us and loves to come over and operate on my
                                                                          > layout. :) He never had the time of money to build one with raising 6 kids.
                                                                          > Tom Businger, Westlake, Ohio
                                                                          >
                                                                          > oljoeoh <oljoe@...> wrote:
                                                                          >
                                                                          > I have one of these. The 3rd driver
                                                                          > from the front has a screw that secures
                                                                          > both of the siderods to the driver. After
                                                                          > I took it apart I noticed a small washer that
                                                                          > WAS on the shaft of the screw. Unfortunately
                                                                          > I don't know where it was at on the screw (on
                                                                          > the outside between the hex head and the siderod,
                                                                          > on the inside between the 2 siderods, between
                                                                          > the siderod and the driver. It will go in any
                                                                          > of those 3 places but I don't know which. Unfortunately
                                                                          > I had removed both of the hex screws before I noticed
                                                                          > the washer so I don't know where it goes. I' guessing
                                                                          > it goes between the 2 siderods. I had looke before I
                                                                          > took it apart but just didn't see it and where it
                                                                          > belongs. Anybody know? Anybody have a copy of
                                                                          > the assy direction for this item?
                                                                          > Joe O'Loughlin
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                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 660 From: oljoe@landolls.com Date: 11/23/2005
                                                                          Subject: Re: Mantua 0-6-0
                                                                          Ray....
                                                                          At first I didn't quite "get" what you were talking about. After
                                                                          I thought about it for a bit I finally realized what you were
                                                                          driving at - a really neat idea.... now it's off to the store.
                                                                          One other poster thinks it's 0-80 - a size that was not in
                                                                          the memory banks until he mentioned it.
                                                                          thanks,
                                                                          Joe O'Loughlin

                                                                          Ray Marinaccio wrote:

                                                                          > I can't remember the size off the top of my head.
                                                                          > What I use is a set screw with a hex head as a socket to tighten the
                                                                          > screws.
                                                                          >
                                                                          > oljoeoh <oljoe@...> wrote:
                                                                          >
                                                                          > I have one of these WITH the optional valve gear assy.
                                                                          > Does anyone here know what the size of the hex
                                                                          > screw is that holds both the valve gear crank
                                                                          > and the siderod. Mine has loosened and needs
                                                                          > tightening. I thought I had the right hex nut
                                                                          > thing but it won't work. I seem to remmeber a
                                                                          > small, but effective, piece of brass tubing
                                                                          > that was included with the kit to accomplish
                                                                          > the task of making the screws tight. I would
                                                                          > really like to get my hands on another one
                                                                          > if possible if anyone has one.
                                                                          > Joe O'Loughlin
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
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                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 661 From: oljoe@landolls.com Date: 11/23/2005
                                                                          Subject: Re: Mantua 0-6-0
                                                                          Roger....
                                                                          My very old cobwebs had forgotten about those "sizes". I think
                                                                          you are probably right. Sure would like someone who has the
                                                                          parts list to confirm.
                                                                          thanks,
                                                                          Joe O'Loughlin

                                                                          Roger Aultman wrote:

                                                                          > I thik they are 0-80, Walthers should list wrenches for the hex head
                                                                          > version. Roger Aultman
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          > oljoeoh wrote:
                                                                          > > I have one of these WITH the optional valve gear assy.
                                                                          > > Does anyone here know what the size of the hex
                                                                          > > screw is that holds both the valve gear crank
                                                                          > > and the siderod. Mine has loosened and needs
                                                                          > > tightening. I thought I had the right hex nut
                                                                          > > thing but it won't work. I seem to remmeber a
                                                                          > > small, but effective, piece of brass tubing
                                                                          > > that was included with the kit to accomplish
                                                                          > > the task of making the screws tight. I would
                                                                          > > really like to get my hands on another one
                                                                          > > if possible if anyone has one.
                                                                          > > Joe O'Loughlin
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > >
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                                                                          > >
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                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 662 From: Thomas Businger Date: 11/23/2005
                                                                          Subject: Re: Roundhouse 0-6-0 from the 50's
                                                                          Joe,  I am loosening the side rods screws as I type this..(VBG) loco is upside down, facing away from me. On the right side there are no washers of any type,  driver, connecting rod (brass) diecast siderod, brass screw.  On the left side ditto.  No washers at all. I will try to post some photos here in a folder, Tom's Collection.  Hope this helps.  I will also email you seperately my phone number.  Tom Businger,Westlake Ohio
                                                                          oljoe@... wrote:
                                                                          Tom...
                                                                          If I read you right... the washer is sitting on the screw shaft
                                                                          between the head of the screw and the siderod? Looks to me like
                                                                          the siderod has an indentation about the size of the washer. If
                                                                          that is where it is it must be there to prevent the head of the
                                                                          screw from rubbing on the rod while everything is moving. I tried
                                                                          it in that position but couldn't quite believe thats where it
                                                                          goes. The motor is a Pittman.
                                                                          I am really surprised at the many similarities between the Roundhouse
                                                                          and Mantua examples.

                                                                          Thanks for your observations and help
                                                                          Joe O'Loughlin

                                                                          Thomas Businger wrote:
                                                                          > Joe, I have a Model Die Casting Co. Roundhouse Products 0-6-0 Switcher
                                                                          > kit (complete) 2L1 in original box assembled, unfortunately no
                                                                          > instructions in the box.... :((( Viewing it from the bottom, front of
                                                                          > engine facing away from me on the left side is the screw, which is not
                                                                          > flush with the siderod, it protrudes a bit, the siderod, looks like
                                                                          > diecast metal, the second siderod in brassand the driver. On the right,
                                                                          > is the outer siderod, a very small piece of brass that may be the washer
                                                                          > you are referring to, the second siderod, and the driver.
                                                                          > If you need it I can try to take a picture and post it or email it to
                                                                          > you. This was my Dad's locomotive, and as a kid, (50 now) I remember
                                                                          > running it on a small switching shelf he had. It ran great. The only
                                                                          > thing "wrong" with it is the fiberboard drawbar between the loco and
                                                                          > tender is broken and the paint job has flaked off a bit. I am running a
                                                                          > DCC layout, but when I have the time may set it up for use, it has the
                                                                          > Pittman motor ( I think). If anyone needs help with late 40's early
                                                                          > 50's Roundhouse, Varney, I have several instrucion sheets and about 30
                                                                          > various freight cars, a couple of Varney F diesels, they are in a pieces
                                                                          > but I know Dad had them together at one time, and I think some vintage
                                                                          > Tyco??? 0-4-0 switchers. All locos and most of the cars are diecast.
                                                                          > BTW Dad is still with us and loves to come over and operate on my
                                                                          > layout. :) He never had the time of money to build one with raising 6 kids.
                                                                          > Tom Businger, Westlake, Ohio
                                                                          >
                                                                          > oljoeoh wrote:
                                                                          >
                                                                          > I have one of these. The 3rd driver
                                                                          > from the front has a screw that secures
                                                                          > both of the siderods to the driver. After
                                                                          > I took it apart I noticed a small washer that
                                                                          > WAS on the shaft of the screw. Unfortunately
                                                                          > I don't know where it was at on the screw (on
                                                                          > the outside between the hex head and the siderod,
                                                                          > on the inside between the 2 siderods, between
                                                                          > the siderod and the driver. It will go in any
                                                                          > of those 3 places but I don't know which. Unfortunately
                                                                          > I had removed both of the hex screws before I noticed
                                                                          > the washer so I don't know where it goes. I' guessing
                                                                          > it goes between the 2 siderods. I had looke before I
                                                                          > took it apart but just didn't see it and where it
                                                                          > belongs. Anybody know? Anybody have a copy of
                                                                          > the assy direction for this item?
                                                                          > Joe O'Loughlin
                                                                          >
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                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 663 From: AL Date: 11/23/2005
                                                                          Subject: old plans
                                                                          I have a couple I can scan and send you. Not REAL old, but old enough. I'm
                                                                          pretty sure I still have the plans for an Ambroid Milwaukee Raod 50' rib
                                                                          side, and I KNOW I have the Mainline 36' stock car (at least I'd better, I
                                                                          have two kits I haven't put together yet.) and a couple quality crafts.
                                                                          I'll have to dig around the basement tonight.

                                                                          Don

                                                                          ....................

                                                                          Don,

                                                                          Would love to get a copy of those, and can likely post them someplace, or
                                                                          send to Larry as well, for his site ( will send my own when I get a chance
                                                                          to scan them, so hope he's up to posting em, lol ... or I can find / start a
                                                                          site ...

                                                                          prefered scan should be full size, I know the rockets site I noted, has
                                                                          them posted full scale in .tif format usually, then they can be opened in
                                                                          something like Adobe, and printed actual size ( so the plan drawings can be
                                                                          used to cut parts,etc, not having to measure to scale,estimate,etc ).
                                                                          ( alternatively, I;d personally be more than willing to pay for copying /
                                                                          postage if needed, lmk )

                                                                          thanks for any you find,

                                                                          ~ AL
                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 664 From: Larry Stevenson Date: 11/23/2005
                                                                          Subject: Re: old plans
                                                                          I will start building a page for the Main Line, Ambroid or other HO train diagrams you send.  I will watermark the diagrams you send with your name or handle.  So let me know, what you want posted on them. "From The Collection of ?"  Also I will need a picture of the Ambroid logo to add to the page.  I am not sure if Mainline had a logo, other then the name written on the box.
                                                                           
                                                                          Send them to:
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                          Thanks
                                                                          Larry

                                                                          AL <Sailordoode@...> wrote:
                                                                          I have a couple I can scan and send you.  Not REAL old, but old enough.  I'm
                                                                          pretty sure I still have the plans for an Ambroid Milwaukee Raod 50' rib
                                                                          side, and I KNOW I have the Mainline 36' stock car (at least I'd better, I
                                                                          have two kits I haven't put together yet.) and a couple quality crafts.
                                                                          I'll have to dig around the basement tonight.

                                                                          Don

                                                                          ....................

                                                                          Don,

                                                                          Would love to get a copy of those, and can likely post them someplace, or
                                                                          send to Larry as well, for his site ( will send my own when I get a chance
                                                                          to scan them, so hope he's up to posting em, lol ... or I can find / start a
                                                                          site ...

                                                                          prefered scan should be full size, I know the rockets site I noted, has
                                                                          them posted full scale in .tif format usually, then they can be opened in
                                                                          something like Adobe, and printed actual size ( so the plan drawings can be
                                                                          used to cut parts,etc, not having to measure to scale,estimate,etc ).
                                                                          ( alternatively, I;d personally be more than willing to pay for copying /
                                                                          postage if needed, lmk )

                                                                          thanks for any you find,

                                                                          ~ AL



                                                                          Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 665 From: Roger Aultman Date: 11/23/2005
                                                                          Subject: Re: Mantua 0-6-0
                                                                          Hello Joe Looking closer at the drawing it appears they are cross slot
                                                                          screws rather than hex head. I have a little latter plastic bodied
                                                                          0-6-0 with brass rimmed drivers that has the slotted head screws. Was
                                                                          the valvwe gear kit by Kemtron?, perhaps they supplied the better
                                                                          looking hex heads. Unfortunately the kit does not have a formal parts
                                                                          list, only what sizes are listed in the instructions. Roger




                                                                          oljoe@... wrote:
                                                                          > Roger....
                                                                          > My very old cobwebs had forgotten about those "sizes". I think
                                                                          > you are probably right. Sure would like someone who has the
                                                                          > parts list to confirm.
                                                                          > thanks,
                                                                          > Joe O'Loughlin
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Roger Aultman wrote:
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >>I thik they are 0-80, Walthers should list wrenches for the hex head
                                                                          >>version. Roger Aultman
                                                                          >>
                                                                          >>
                                                                          >>
                                                                          >>oljoeoh wrote:
                                                                          >> > I have one of these WITH the optional valve gear assy.
                                                                          >> > Does anyone here know what the size of the hex
                                                                          >> > screw is that holds both the valve gear crank
                                                                          >> > and the siderod. Mine has loosened and needs
                                                                          >> > tightening. I thought I had the right hex nut
                                                                          >> > thing but it won't work. I seem to remmeber a
                                                                          >> > small, but effective, piece of brass tubing
                                                                          >> > that was included with the kit to accomplish
                                                                          >> > the task of making the screws tight. I would
                                                                          >> > really like to get my hands on another one
                                                                          >> > if possible if anyone has one.
                                                                          >> > Joe O'Loughlin
                                                                          >> >
                                                                          >> >
                                                                          >> >
                                                                          >> >
                                                                          >> >
                                                                          >> >
                                                                          >> >
                                                                          >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                          >> >
                                                                          >> >
                                                                          >> >
                                                                          >> >
                                                                          >> >
                                                                          >> >
                                                                          >>
                                                                          >>
                                                                          >>--
                                                                          >>http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm
                                                                          >>
                                                                          >>Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                          >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                                          >>
                                                                          >>
                                                                          >>
                                                                          >>
                                                                          >>
                                                                          >>SPONSORED LINKS
                                                                          >>G scale train
                                                                          >><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=G+scale+train&w1=G+scale+train&w2=Ho+scale+model+train&w3=Model+train+n+scale&w4=G+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&w6=N+scale+trains&c=6&s=136&.sig=f19Q3X9pY2AZp3CHkNWYZw>
                                                                          >> Ho scale model train
                                                                          >><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ho+scale+model+train&w1=G+scale+train&w2=Ho+scale+model+train&w3=Model+train+n+scale&w4=G+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&w6=N+scale+trains&c=6&s=136&.sig=F6asK7Ix0wVnB74PfHYYcg>
                                                                          >> Model train n scale
                                                                          >><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Model+train+n+scale&w1=G+scale+train&w2=Ho+scale+model+train&w3=Model+train+n+scale&w4=G+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&w6=N+scale+trains&c=6&s=136&.sig=qBgsM4EoFI8MvQKulYZ_zQ>
                                                                          >>
                                                                          >>G scale model train
                                                                          >><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=G+scale+model+train&w1=G+scale+train&w2=Ho+scale+model+train&w3=Model+train+n+scale&w4=G+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&w6=N+scale+trains&c=6&s=136&.sig=xeLKBZkBSB-tQWBeD7HRnQ>
                                                                          >> Ho scale trains
                                                                          >><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ho+scale+trains&w1=G+scale+train&w2=Ho+scale+model+train&w3=Model+train+n+scale&w4=G+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&w6=N+scale+trains&c=6&s=136&.sig=0ybvhtrqTgbqmDcSkOOP1w>
                                                                          >> N scale trains
                                                                          >><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=N+scale+trains&w1=G+scale+train&w2=Ho+scale+model+train&w3=Model+train+n+scale&w4=G+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&w6=N+scale+trains&c=6&s=136&.sig=thUHjhzywK2ZJIYcShcTTQ>
                                                                          >>
                                                                          >>
                                                                          >>
                                                                          >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                          >>YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                          >>
                                                                          >> * Visit your group "vintageHO
                                                                          >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO>" on the web.
                                                                          >>
                                                                          >> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                          >> vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                          >> <mailto:vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                                                                          >>
                                                                          >> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                          >> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                                                                          >>
                                                                          >>
                                                                          >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                          >>
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >


                                                                          --
                                                                          http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

                                                                          Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 666 From: dhopf1 Date: 11/23/2005
                                                                          Subject: Re: Mantua 0-6-0
                                                                          00-90. 00-80, and 00-72 usually refer to the diameter of screw body
                                                                          (threaded area). 3/32" would the wrench/nutdriver size in SAE
                                                                          (american) for an Mantua crankpin.

                                                                          A 5/64-11/32" SAE nut driver set can be purchased at Micro-Mark,
                                                                          Sears, or good tool store. I bought a nutdriver set from Radio-
                                                                          Shack a long time ago (80's) for $5.00.

                                                                          Micro-Mark has a (item #80240) nutdriver set for $16.95. Includes 4
                                                                          special nutdrivers for 00-90 (5/64 inch), 0-80 (3/32 inch), 1-72
                                                                          (7/64 inch) and 2-56 (1/8 inch) hex head screws and nuts

                                                                          The hexagon brass tubing would work also.

                                                                          I have few spare crankpin screws from a spare Mantua mechanism if one
                                                                          is need.

                                                                          Hope this helps

                                                                          Don Hopf
                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 667 From: redehaas@dds.nl Date: 11/24/2005
                                                                          Subject: Re: old plans
                                                                          Hi Larry,
                                                                          I got some older Main Line (by Varney) plans + all sort of Varney plans.
                                                                          I also have the Bowser plans for the first generation Challenger and Mountain
                                                                          with the original Bowser Supermotor (not the Pittman).
                                                                          If you are interested I can scan them and mail them to you.
                                                                          Rudolf


                                                                          Citeren Larry Stevenson <seekingho@...>:

                                                                          > I will start building a page for the Main Line, Ambroid or other HO train
                                                                          > diagrams you send. I will watermark the diagrams you send with your name or
                                                                          > handle. So let me know, what you want posted on them. "From The Collection
                                                                          > of ?" Also I will need a picture of the Ambroid logo to add to the page. I
                                                                          > am not sure if Mainline had a logo, other then the name written on the box.
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Send them to:
                                                                          > seekingho@...
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Thanks
                                                                          > Larry
                                                                          >
                                                                          > AL <Sailordoode@...> wrote:
                                                                          > I have a couple I can scan and send you. Not REAL old, but old enough.
                                                                          > I'm
                                                                          > pretty sure I still have the plans for an Ambroid Milwaukee Raod 50' rib
                                                                          > side, and I KNOW I have the Mainline 36' stock car (at least I'd better, I
                                                                          > have two kits I haven't put together yet.) and a couple quality crafts.
                                                                          > I'll have to dig around the basement tonight.
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Don
                                                                          >
                                                                          > ....................
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Don,
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Would love to get a copy of those, and can likely post them someplace, or
                                                                          > send to Larry as well, for his site ( will send my own when I get a chance
                                                                          > to scan them, so hope he's up to posting em, lol ... or I can find / start a
                                                                          > site ...
                                                                          >
                                                                          > prefered scan should be full size, I know the rockets site I noted, has
                                                                          > them posted full scale in .tif format usually, then they can be opened in
                                                                          > something like Adobe, and printed actual size ( so the plan drawings can be
                                                                          > used to cut parts,etc, not having to measure to scale,estimate,etc ).
                                                                          > ( alternatively, I;d personally be more than willing to pay for copying /
                                                                          > postage if needed, lmk )
                                                                          >
                                                                          > thanks for any you find,
                                                                          >
                                                                          > ~ AL
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          > SPONSORED LINKS
                                                                          > G scale train Ho scale model train Model train n scale G
                                                                          > scale model train Ho scale trains N scale trains
                                                                          >
                                                                          > ---------------------------------
                                                                          > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Visit your group "vintageHO" on the web.
                                                                          >
                                                                          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                          > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          > ---------------------------------
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          > ---------------------------------
                                                                          > Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 668 From: oljoe@landolls.com Date: 11/24/2005
                                                                          Subject: Re: Mantua 0-6-0
                                                                          Interesting.....
                                                                          Mine is old enough to still have the Mantua style couplers (before
                                                                          the NMRA couplers appeared). The valve gear kit was offered by Mantua.
                                                                          I've recently seen several of these kits on e***. All of the Mantuas
                                                                          I've seen have the hex head screws - slotted screws are an new one
                                                                          on me. Mine also is all diecast - engine cab and tender. The die
                                                                          cast tender robbed the 0-6-0 of much of its pulling power.
                                                                          Joe O'Loughlin

                                                                          Roger Aultman wrote:
                                                                          > Hello Joe Looking closer at the drawing it appears they are cross slot
                                                                          > screws rather than hex head. I have a little latter plastic bodied
                                                                          > 0-6-0 with brass rimmed drivers that has the slotted head screws. Was
                                                                          > the valvwe gear kit by Kemtron?, perhaps they supplied the better
                                                                          > looking hex heads. Unfortunately the kit does not have a formal parts
                                                                          > list, only what sizes are listed in the instructions. Roger
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          > oljoe@... wrote:
                                                                          > > Roger....
                                                                          > > My very old cobwebs had forgotten about those "sizes". I think
                                                                          > > you are probably right. Sure would like someone who has the
                                                                          > > parts list to confirm.
                                                                          > > thanks,
                                                                          > > Joe O'Loughlin
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > Roger Aultman wrote:
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > >>I thik they are 0-80, Walthers should list wrenches for the hex head
                                                                          > >>version. Roger Aultman
                                                                          > >>
                                                                          > >>
                                                                          > >>
                                                                          > >>oljoeoh wrote:
                                                                          > >> > I have one of these WITH the optional valve gear assy.
                                                                          > >> > Does anyone here know what the size of the hex
                                                                          > >> > screw is that holds both the valve gear crank
                                                                          > >> > and the siderod. Mine has loosened and needs
                                                                          > >> > tightening. I thought I had the right hex nut
                                                                          > >> > thing but it won't work. I seem to remmeber a
                                                                          > >> > small, but effective, piece of brass tubing
                                                                          > >> > that was included with the kit to accomplish
                                                                          > >> > the task of making the screws tight. I would
                                                                          > >> > really like to get my hands on another one
                                                                          > >> > if possible if anyone has one.
                                                                          > >> > Joe O'Loughlin
                                                                          > >> >
                                                                          > >> >
                                                                          > >> >
                                                                          > >> >
                                                                          > >> >
                                                                          > >> >
                                                                          > >> >
                                                                          > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                          > >> >
                                                                          > >> >
                                                                          > >> >
                                                                          > >> >
                                                                          > >> >
                                                                          > >> >
                                                                          > >>
                                                                          > >>
                                                                          > >>--
                                                                          > >>http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm
                                                                          > >>
                                                                          > >>Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                          > >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                                          > >>
                                                                          > >>
                                                                          > >>
                                                                          > >>
                                                                          > >>
                                                                          > >>SPONSORED LINKS
                                                                          > >>G scale train
                                                                          > >><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=G+scale+train&w1=G+scale+train&w2=Ho+scale+model+train&w3=Model+train+n+scale&w4=G+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&w6=N+scale+trains&c=6&s=136&.sig=f19Q3X9pY2AZp3CHkNWYZw
                                                                          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=G+scale+train&w1=G+scale+train&w2=Ho+scale+model+train&w3=Model+train+n+scale&w4=G+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&w6=N+scale+trains&c=6&s=136&.sig=f19Q3X9pY2AZp3CHkNWYZw>>
                                                                          >
                                                                          > >> Ho scale model train
                                                                          > >><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ho+scale+model+train&w1=G+scale+train&w2=Ho+scale+model+train&w3=Model+train+n+scale&w4=G+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&w6=N+scale+trains&c=6&s=136&.sig=F6asK7Ix0wVnB74PfHYYcg
                                                                          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ho+scale+model+train&w1=G+scale+train&w2=Ho+scale+model+train&w3=Model+train+n+scale&w4=G+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&w6=N+scale+trains&c=6&s=136&.sig=F6asK7Ix0wVnB74PfHYYcg>>
                                                                          >
                                                                          > >> Model train n scale
                                                                          > >><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Model+train+n+scale&w1=G+scale+train&w2=Ho+scale+model+train&w3=Model+train+n+scale&w4=G+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&w6=N+scale+trains&c=6&s=136&.sig=qBgsM4EoFI8MvQKulYZ_zQ
                                                                          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Model+train+n+scale&w1=G+scale+train&w2=Ho+scale+model+train&w3=Model+train+n+scale&w4=G+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&w6=N+scale+trains&c=6&s=136&.sig=qBgsM4EoFI8MvQKulYZ_zQ>>
                                                                          >
                                                                          > >>
                                                                          > >>G scale model train
                                                                          > >><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=G+scale+model+train&w1=G+scale+train&w2=Ho+scale+model+train&w3=Model+train+n+scale&w4=G+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&w6=N+scale+trains&c=6&s=136&.sig=xeLKBZkBSB-tQWBeD7HRnQ
                                                                          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=G+scale+model+train&w1=G+scale+train&w2=Ho+scale+model+train&w3=Model+train+n+scale&w4=G+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&w6=N+scale+trains&c=6&s=136&.sig=xeLKBZkBSB-tQWBeD7HRnQ>>
                                                                          >
                                                                          > >> Ho scale trains
                                                                          > >><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ho+scale+trains&w1=G+scale+train&w2=Ho+scale+model+train&w3=Model+train+n+scale&w4=G+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&w6=N+scale+trains&c=6&s=136&.sig=0ybvhtrqTgbqmDcSkOOP1w
                                                                          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ho+scale+trains&w1=G+scale+train&w2=Ho+scale+model+train&w3=Model+train+n+scale&w4=G+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&w6=N+scale+trains&c=6&s=136&.sig=0ybvhtrqTgbqmDcSkOOP1w>>
                                                                          >
                                                                          > >> N scale trains
                                                                          > >><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=N+scale+trains&w1=G+scale+train&w2=Ho+scale+model+train&w3=Model+train+n+scale&w4=G+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&w6=N+scale+trains&c=6&s=136&.sig=thUHjhzywK2ZJIYcShcTTQ
                                                                          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=N+scale+trains&w1=G+scale+train&w2=Ho+scale+model+train&w3=Model+train+n+scale&w4=G+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&w6=N+scale+trains&c=6&s=136&.sig=thUHjhzywK2ZJIYcShcTTQ>>
                                                                          >
                                                                          > >>
                                                                          > >>
                                                                          > >>
                                                                          > >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                          > >>YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                          > >>
                                                                          > >> * Visit your group "vintageHO
                                                                          > >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO>" on the web.
                                                                          > >>
                                                                          > >> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                          > >> vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                          > >> <mailto:vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                                                                          > >>
                                                                          > >> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                          > >> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                                                                          > >>
                                                                          > >>
                                                                          > >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                          > >>
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          > --
                                                                          > http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                          > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                          >
                                                                          > * Visit your group "vintageHO
                                                                          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO>" on the web.
                                                                          >
                                                                          > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                          > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                          > <mailto:vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                                                                          >
                                                                          > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                          > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                          >
                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 669 From: Larry Date: 11/24/2005
                                                                          Subject: Re: old plans
                                                                          Hello Rudolf

                                                                          Great! The Bowser Diagrams would be a nice addition to the site. I
                                                                          look forward to adding all the new diagrams. When created, I had no
                                                                          idea if anyone would contribute to the site. Also, if any members of
                                                                          the Vintage HO group would like to contribute pictures to the photo
                                                                          galleries, I can send you a personel password for the gallery
                                                                          pictures. New Albums can be created.

                                                                          Guess, I will be busy this Holiday season.

                                                                          Have a Safe & Happy Thanksgiving Holiday.

                                                                          Larry

                                                                          http://hoseeker.net/swapgallery/albums.php



                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, redehaas@d... wrote:
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Hi Larry,
                                                                          > I got some older Main Line (by Varney) plans + all sort of Varney
                                                                          plans.
                                                                          > I also have the Bowser plans for the first generation Challenger
                                                                          and Mountain
                                                                          > with the original Bowser Supermotor (not the Pittman).
                                                                          > If you are interested I can scan them and mail them to you.
                                                                          > Rudolf
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Citeren Larry Stevenson <seekingho@y...>:
                                                                          >
                                                                          > > I will start building a page for the Main Line, Ambroid or other
                                                                          HO train
                                                                          > > diagrams you send. I will watermark the diagrams you send with
                                                                          your name or
                                                                          > > handle. So let me know, what you want posted on them. "From The
                                                                          Collection
                                                                          > > of ?" Also I will need a picture of the Ambroid logo to add to
                                                                          the page. I
                                                                          > > am not sure if Mainline had a logo, other then the name written
                                                                          on the box.
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > Send them to:
                                                                          > > seekingho@y...
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > Thanks
                                                                          > > Larry
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > AL <Sailordoode@s...> wrote:
                                                                          > > I have a couple I can scan and send you. Not REAL old, but old
                                                                          enough.
                                                                          > > I'm
                                                                          > > pretty sure I still have the plans for an Ambroid Milwaukee Raod
                                                                          50' rib
                                                                          > > side, and I KNOW I have the Mainline 36' stock car (at least I'd
                                                                          better, I
                                                                          > > have two kits I haven't put together yet.) and a couple quality
                                                                          crafts.
                                                                          > > I'll have to dig around the basement tonight.
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > Don
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > ....................
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > Don,
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > Would love to get a copy of those, and can likely post them
                                                                          someplace, or
                                                                          > > send to Larry as well, for his site ( will send my own when I get
                                                                          a chance
                                                                          > > to scan them, so hope he's up to posting em, lol ... or I can
                                                                          find / start a
                                                                          > > site ...
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > prefered scan should be full size, I know the rockets site I
                                                                          noted, has
                                                                          > > them posted full scale in .tif format usually, then they can be
                                                                          opened in
                                                                          > > something like Adobe, and printed actual size ( so the plan
                                                                          drawings can be
                                                                          > > used to cut parts,etc, not having to measure to
                                                                          scale,estimate,etc ).
                                                                          > > ( alternatively, I;d personally be more than willing to pay for
                                                                          copying /
                                                                          > > postage if needed, lmk )
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > thanks for any you find,
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > ~ AL
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > SPONSORED LINKS
                                                                          > > G scale train Ho scale model train Model train n
                                                                          scale G
                                                                          > > scale model train Ho scale trains N scale trains
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > ---------------------------------
                                                                          > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > Visit your group "vintageHO" on the web.
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                          > > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                          Service.
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > ---------------------------------
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > ---------------------------------
                                                                          > > Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
                                                                          >
                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 670 From: Roger Aultman Date: 11/24/2005
                                                                          Subject: Re: Mantua 0-6-0
                                                                          Joe it was my error you are correct the Mantua's had the hex head screws
                                                                          on the side rods. Some how I thought the loco in question was a MDC.
                                                                          My first H-0 locomotive was a Booster in 1953. This was the model that
                                                                          had a nylon frame, Korean war shortages was the story, that picked up
                                                                          with one driver and returned with another. It was prone to stalling and
                                                                          never ran satisfactrally. It came in a set of kits; the four wheel
                                                                          caboose and two diecast flatcars, the track was six 18" pieces of brass
                                                                          flextrack on fibre ties. For power there was a cardboard tube that was
                                                                          inteneded for six 1.5v D cells. This set used the Mantua loop couplers,
                                                                          they worked well but did not remotely resemble a full sized coupler.
                                                                          Sure was different than what is available now. Roger





                                                                          oljoe@... wrote:
                                                                          > Interesting.....
                                                                          > Mine is old enough to still have the Mantua style couplers (before
                                                                          > the NMRA couplers appeared). The valve gear kit was offered by Mantua.
                                                                          > I've recently seen several of these kits on e***. All of the Mantuas
                                                                          > I've seen have the hex head screws - slotted screws are an new one
                                                                          > on me. Mine also is all diecast - engine cab and tender. The die
                                                                          > cast tender robbed the 0-6-0 of much of its pulling power.
                                                                          > Joe O'Loughlin
                                                                          >

                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >


                                                                          --
                                                                          http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

                                                                          Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 671 From: Ray Hobin Date: 11/24/2005
                                                                          Subject: Re: old plans
                                                                          "Larry" <seekingho@...> posted:

                                                                          >Great! The Bowser Diagrams would be a nice addition to the site. I
                                                                          >look forward to adding all the new diagrams. When created, I had no
                                                                          >idea if anyone would contribute to the site. Also, if any members of
                                                                          >the Vintage HO group would like to contribute pictures to the photo
                                                                          >galleries, I can send you a personel password for the gallery
                                                                          >pictures. New Albums can be created.

                                                                          This thread got me checking through my RR bookcase and files and have
                                                                          discovered the following:

                                                                          * Atlas H0/N Parts Catalog dated 10/90
                                                                          * TYCO (Mantua) H0 Replacement Parts with Diagrams, comprised of
                                                                          individual sheets dated 65-81 with the majority dated 1980-88.
                                                                          * Bachmann Parts Catalog w/diagrams dated 1990.
                                                                          * AHM Parts catalog and Scratch Builders Bible, all sheets dated 9/1977.
                                                                          * Bowser H0 Reference Manual, 13th Edition, dated 9/91

                                                                          There is no possible way I can upload all of this as I lack the capability
                                                                          and also have slow dial-up internet access.If we can avoid an overload, I
                                                                          might be able to help with a specific item, but the "whole 9-yards" is out
                                                                          of the question - there are copyright issues too. :)

                                                                          Ray Hobin
                                                                          NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX
                                                                          Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 672 From: Larry Date: 11/24/2005
                                                                          Subject: Re: old plans
                                                                          Hello Ray

                                                                          It might be best for you to send the material a little at a time when
                                                                          you have a few extra minutes. Can we start out with the Mantua lists
                                                                          65-81. Then the Bowser and Atlas. I have numerous Bowser and Atlas
                                                                          diagrasms now. Check and see which one are missing.
                                                                          http://www.hoseeker.net/lit.html Checking will cut down on the
                                                                          volume you would have to send. Also is the Bachmann list and
                                                                          diagrams for the Spectrum Series and just regular Bachamnn? If it is
                                                                          for the Spectrum steam That would be a good addition. As far as the
                                                                          recently made AHM, Tyco and Bachmann. Let's hold off on those for
                                                                          now. Seeing these were the least reliable trains made.

                                                                          Thanks
                                                                          Larry
                                                                          seekingho@...
                                                                          Larry

                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Ray Hobin <tcol01@e...> wrote:
                                                                          >
                                                                          > "Larry" <seekingho@y...> posted:
                                                                          >
                                                                          > >Great! The Bowser Diagrams would be a nice addition to the site.
                                                                          I
                                                                          > >look forward to adding all the new diagrams. When created, I had
                                                                          no
                                                                          > >idea if anyone would contribute to the site. Also, if any members
                                                                          of
                                                                          > >the Vintage HO group would like to contribute pictures to the
                                                                          photo
                                                                          > >galleries, I can send you a personel password for the gallery
                                                                          > >pictures. New Albums can be created.
                                                                          >
                                                                          > This thread got me checking through my RR bookcase and files and
                                                                          have
                                                                          > discovered the following:
                                                                          >
                                                                          > * Atlas H0/N Parts Catalog dated 10/90
                                                                          > * TYCO (Mantua) H0 Replacement Parts with Diagrams, comprised of
                                                                          > individual sheets dated 65-81 with the majority dated 1980-88.
                                                                          > * Bachmann Parts Catalog w/diagrams dated 1990.
                                                                          > * AHM Parts catalog and Scratch Builders Bible, all sheets dated
                                                                          9/1977.
                                                                          > * Bowser H0 Reference Manual, 13th Edition, dated 9/91
                                                                          >
                                                                          > There is no possible way I can upload all of this as I lack the
                                                                          capability
                                                                          > and also have slow dial-up internet access.If we can avoid an
                                                                          overload, I
                                                                          > might be able to help with a specific item, but the "whole 9-yards"
                                                                          is out
                                                                          > of the question - there are copyright issues too. :)
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Ray Hobin
                                                                          > NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX
                                                                          > Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
                                                                          >
                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 673 From: Ray Hobin Date: 11/25/2005
                                                                          Subject: Re: old plans
                                                                          On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 00:21:50 -0000, you wrote:

                                                                          >It might be best for you to send the material a little at a time when
                                                                          >you have a few extra minutes. Can we start out with the Mantua lists
                                                                          >65-81. Then the Bowser and Atlas. I have numerous Bowser and Atlas
                                                                          >diagrasms now. Check and see which one are missing.
                                                                          >http://www.hoseeker.net/lit.html Checking will cut down on the

                                                                          Larry:

                                                                          I'm a bit confused...checxked your site and looked up what you had from
                                                                          Bowser...but then went to Bowser site via your link and found diagrams you
                                                                          neeed...eg. PRR H9...don't understand the purpose of me sending you a copy
                                                                          of Bowser diagrams that are already available on line?


                                                                          Ray Hobin
                                                                          NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX
                                                                          Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 674 From: Larry Date: 11/25/2005
                                                                          Subject: Re: old plans
                                                                          Hello Ray

                                                                          I have not visited that part of the Bowser web site lately. The last
                                                                          time I was at Bowsers site they only had one or two diagrams (pdf
                                                                          files) listed. I am glad you took the time to investigate this. It
                                                                          will save storage space at my site. The people at Bowser might have
                                                                          visited my site. Is that wishful thinking.

                                                                          Below is the new page which I have created for the Mainline and
                                                                          Ambroid diagrams everyone will be sending. It is not linked to the
                                                                          main site yet.

                                                                          http://www.hoseeker.net/otherhotrains2.html

                                                                          Larry

                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Ray Hobin <tcol01@e...> wrote:
                                                                          >
                                                                          > On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 00:21:50 -0000, you wrote:
                                                                          >
                                                                          > >It might be best for you to send the material a little at a time
                                                                          when
                                                                          > >you have a few extra minutes. Can we start out with the Mantua
                                                                          lists
                                                                          > >65-81. Then the Bowser and Atlas. I have numerous Bowser and
                                                                          Atlas
                                                                          > >diagrasms now. Check and see which one are missing.
                                                                          > >http://www.hoseeker.net/lit.html Checking will cut down on the
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Larry:
                                                                          >
                                                                          > I'm a bit confused...checxked your site and looked up what you had
                                                                          from
                                                                          > Bowser...but then went to Bowser site via your link and found
                                                                          diagrams you
                                                                          > neeed...eg. PRR H9...don't understand the purpose of me sending you
                                                                          a copy
                                                                          > of Bowser diagrams that are already available on line?
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Ray Hobin
                                                                          > NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX
                                                                          > Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
                                                                          >
                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 675 From: Bob B Date: 11/26/2005
                                                                          Subject: HOTCO models?
                                                                          The following question has been posted on the Model Railroader forum:

                                                                          "I recently acquired a couple cars that have the name HOTCO stamped on
                                                                          the bottom of each car. They are MADE IN HONG KONG, and these two are
                                                                          both 41' 8 panel steel gons. They look just like AHM's 41' gons, even
                                                                          the plastic coal "load" looks the same."

                                                                          Anyone have any info on the HOTCO stuff?

                                                                          Thanks!

                                                                          Bob Boudreau
                                                                          Canada
                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 676 From: Ray Hobin Date: 11/26/2005
                                                                          Subject: Re: HOTCO models?
                                                                          On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 20:04:32 -0000, you wrote:

                                                                          >"I recently acquired a couple cars that have the name HOTCO stamped on
                                                                          >the bottom of each car. They are MADE IN HONG KONG, and these two are
                                                                          >both 41' 8 panel steel gons. They look just like AHM's 41' gons, even
                                                                          >the plastic coal "load" looks the same."
                                                                          >
                                                                          >Anyone have any info on the HOTCO stuff?

                                                                          No documented info, but wonder of HOTCO isn't an adaptation or resurrection
                                                                          of the "H.O. Train Co" located years ago [late 1950s]in Philadelphia, with
                                                                          some affiliation with AHM importers (one and the same?), and H0 locos (New
                                                                          One) made in Japan?
                                                                          Ray Hobin
                                                                          NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX
                                                                          Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 677 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 11/26/2005
                                                                          Subject: Re: HOTCO models?
                                                                          I was wondering the same thing.
                                                                           I have a caboose marked HOTCO and it is Identical to an Athearn 34' caboose. ??

                                                                          Bob B <railphotog@...> wrote:
                                                                          The following question has been posted on the Model Railroader forum:

                                                                          "I recently acquired a couple cars that have the name HOTCO stamped on
                                                                          the bottom of each car. They are MADE IN HONG KONG, and these two are
                                                                          both 41' 8 panel steel gons. They look just like AHM's 41' gons, even
                                                                          the plastic coal "load" looks the same."

                                                                          Anyone have any info on the HOTCO stuff?

                                                                          Thanks!

                                                                          Bob Boudreau
                                                                          Canada







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                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 678 From: Larry Date: 11/26/2005
                                                                          Subject: Re: HOTCO models?
                                                                          The first time I saw a HOTCO train cars they were hanging on peg
                                                                          board display. They were in a cardboard and clear plastic
                                                                          packaging. I noticed the similiarity to Athearn in the body and
                                                                          frame, but the trucks were different. I am not sure who made these.

                                                                          Larry

                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Ray Marinaccio <raymarinaccio@y...>
                                                                          wrote:
                                                                          >
                                                                          > I was wondering the same thing.
                                                                          > I have a caboose marked HOTCO and it is Identical to an Athearn
                                                                          34' caboose. ??
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Bob B <railphotog@y...> wrote:
                                                                          > The following question has been posted on the Model Railroader
                                                                          forum:
                                                                          >
                                                                          > "I recently acquired a couple cars that have the name HOTCO stamped
                                                                          on
                                                                          > the bottom of each car. They are MADE IN HONG KONG, and these two
                                                                          are
                                                                          > both 41' 8 panel steel gons. They look just like AHM's 41' gons,
                                                                          even
                                                                          > the plastic coal "load" looks the same."
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Anyone have any info on the HOTCO stuff?
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Thanks!
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Bob Boudreau
                                                                          > Canada
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          > SPONSORED LINKS
                                                                          > G scale train Ho scale model train Model train n
                                                                          scale G scale model train Ho scale trains N scale trains
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                                                                          >
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                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 679 From: Bill C. Date: 11/27/2005
                                                                          Subject: Re: HOTCO models?
                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Larry" <seekingho@y...> wrote:
                                                                          >
                                                                          > The first time I saw a HOTCO train cars they were hanging on peg
                                                                          > board display. They were in a cardboard and clear plastic
                                                                          > packaging. I noticed the similiarity to Athearn in the body and
                                                                          > frame, but the trucks were different. I am not sure who made these.
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Larry
                                                                          >
                                                                          Larry, as far as I remember, those HOTCO cars were basically an
                                                                          AHM/Athearn knock-off of cars. I have a couple of their three dome tank
                                                                          cars, which were real close to the Athearn models. True, the Hotco cars
                                                                          came in a clear plastic bubble/card hanging package, during the mid to
                                                                          late 1960's, then disapeared all together. They were much less costly
                                                                          than their competition at the time. Also, they came with plastic sprung
                                                                          Bettendorf style tricks, with deep flanged plastic wheels and axles.

                                                                          Bill C.
                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 680 From: don.dellmann Date: 11/27/2005
                                                                          Subject: Re: HOTCO models?
                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                          From: Bill C. <pennsysdaddy@...>
                                                                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                          Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 12:59 AM
                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: HOTCO models?


                                                                          > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Larry" <seekingho@y...> wrote:
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > The first time I saw a HOTCO train cars they were hanging on peg
                                                                          > > board display. They were in a cardboard and clear plastic
                                                                          > > packaging. I noticed the similiarity to Athearn in the body and
                                                                          > > frame, but the trucks were different. I am not sure who made these.
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > Larry
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > Larry, as far as I remember, those HOTCO cars were basically an
                                                                          > AHM/Athearn knock-off of cars. I have a couple of their three dome tank
                                                                          > cars, which were real close to the Athearn models. True, the Hotco cars
                                                                          > came in a clear plastic bubble/card hanging package, during the mid to
                                                                          > late 1960's, then disapeared all together. They were much less costly
                                                                          > than their competition at the time. Also, they came with plastic sprung
                                                                          > Bettendorf style tricks, with deep flanged plastic wheels and axles.
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Bill C.

                                                                          Anyone remember Mantua's "Crown" line in the mid 60's? I had a couple and
                                                                          they looked like the same cars described here, right down to the "chinese
                                                                          copy" of the Athearn AT&SF caboose. (And they WERE "Hong Kong")

                                                                          Don

                                                                          don.dellmann@...
                                                                          http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                          moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                          moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                          moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                          co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 681 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 11/27/2005
                                                                          Subject: Re: HOTCO models?
                                                                          Don,
                                                                           Interesting you brought up the Crown brand.
                                                                           I have a 3 dome 40' tank car marked Crown.

                                                                          "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote:

                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                          From: Bill C. <pennsysdaddy@...>
                                                                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                          Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 12:59 AM
                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: HOTCO models?


                                                                          > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Larry" <seekingho@y...> wrote:
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > The first time I saw a HOTCO train cars they were hanging on peg
                                                                          > > board display.  They were in a cardboard and clear plastic
                                                                          > > packaging.  I noticed the similiarity to Athearn in the body and
                                                                          > > frame, but the trucks were different.  I am not sure who made these.
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > Larry
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > Larry, as far as I remember, those HOTCO cars were basically an
                                                                          > AHM/Athearn knock-off of cars. I have a couple of their three dome tank
                                                                          > cars, which were real close to the Athearn models. True, the Hotco cars
                                                                          > came in a clear plastic bubble/card hanging package, during the mid to
                                                                          > late 1960's, then disapeared all together. They were much less costly
                                                                          > than their competition at the time. Also, they came with plastic sprung
                                                                          > Bettendorf style tricks, with deep flanged plastic wheels and axles.
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Bill C.

                                                                          Anyone remember Mantua's "Crown" line in the mid 60's?  I had a couple and
                                                                          they looked like the same cars described here, right down to the "chinese
                                                                          copy" of the Athearn AT&SF caboose.  (And they WERE "Hong Kong")

                                                                          Don

                                                                          don.dellmann@...
                                                                          http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                          moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                          moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                          moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
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                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 682 From: Rick Jones Date: 11/27/2005
                                                                          Subject: Re: HOTCO models?
                                                                          Ray Marinaccio wrote:
                                                                          > Don,
                                                                          > Interesting you brought up the Crown brand.
                                                                          > I have a 3 dome 40' tank car marked Crown.

                                                                          As do I, though I had no idea it was a Mantua brand. Mine is painted
                                                                          for Union Oil Co.

                                                                          --

                                                                          Rick Jones

                                                                          The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad
                                                                          http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/

                                                                          Politician For Sale - Dial 1-800-BUY-BUSH.
                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 683 From: don.dellmann Date: 11/27/2005
                                                                          Subject: Re: HOTCO models?
                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                          From: Rick Jones <rtjones@...>
                                                                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                          Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 5:47 PM
                                                                          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: HOTCO models?


                                                                          > Ray Marinaccio wrote:
                                                                          > > Don,
                                                                          > > Interesting you brought up the Crown brand.
                                                                          > > I have a 3 dome 40' tank car marked Crown.
                                                                          >
                                                                          > As do I, though I had no idea it was a Mantua brand. Mine is painted
                                                                          > for Union Oil Co.
                                                                          >
                                                                          > --
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Rick Jones

                                                                          I may have a Mantua ad downstairs that shows them, if I do I'll scan it and
                                                                          post it.

                                                                          Don

                                                                          don.dellmann@...
                                                                          http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
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                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 684 From: mph261 Date: 11/28/2005
                                                                          Subject: Re: HOTCO models?
                                                                          Don,

                                                                          Thanks for bringing up Crown. I picked up a 40' Pennsylvania boxcar
                                                                          at a show a few weeks ago that I thought was Athearn until I got home
                                                                          and noticed the Crown label on the underside. I was wondering about
                                                                          the history behind it. I hope you find the ad. I would like to see
                                                                          it.

                                                                          Mark

                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...>
                                                                          wrote:
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                          > From: Rick Jones <rtjones@e...>
                                                                          > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                          > Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 5:47 PM
                                                                          > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: HOTCO models?
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          > > Ray Marinaccio wrote:
                                                                          > > > Don,
                                                                          > > > Interesting you brought up the Crown brand.
                                                                          > > > I have a 3 dome 40' tank car marked Crown.
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > As do I, though I had no idea it was a Mantua brand. Mine is
                                                                          painted
                                                                          > > for Union Oil Co.
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > --
                                                                          > >
                                                                          > > Rick Jones
                                                                          >
                                                                          > I may have a Mantua ad downstairs that shows them, if I do I'll
                                                                          scan it and
                                                                          > post it.
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Don
                                                                          >
                                                                          > don.dellmann@p...
                                                                          > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                          > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                          > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                          > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                          > co-moderator: SCENERY@Y...
                                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                          >
                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 685 From: Roger Aultman Date: 11/28/2005
                                                                          Subject: Re: HOTCO models?
                                                                          I can recall a four truck flatcar from Hong Kong, not sure if the
                                                                          couplers were body mnounted or on the trucks. The only way to avoid
                                                                          derailments was on straight tracks and forward direction.
                                                                          Roger Aultman




                                                                          mph261 wrote:
                                                                          > Don,
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Thanks for bringing up Crown. I picked up a 40' Pennsylvania boxcar
                                                                          > at a show a few weeks ago that I thought was Athearn until I got home
                                                                          > and noticed the Crown label on the underside. I was wondering about
                                                                          > the history behind it. I hope you find the ad. I would like to see
                                                                          > it.
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Mark
                                                                          >

                                                                          >
                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >


                                                                          --
                                                                          http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

                                                                          Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 686 From: Dave Slater Date: 11/28/2005
                                                                          Subject: Re: HOTCO models?
                                                                          I think I may have one of those downstairs "somewhere" inm my boxes of miscellaneous stuff..  <G>
                                                                          Dave S.

                                                                          Roger Aultman wrote:

                                                                           I can recall a four truck flatcar from Hong Kong, not sure if the
                                                                          couplers were body mnounted or on the trucks.  The only way to avoid
                                                                          derailments was on straight tracks and forward direction.
                                                                          Roger Aultman
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           

                                                                          mph261 wrote:
                                                                          > Don,
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Thanks for bringing up Crown.  I picked up a 40' Pennsylvania boxcar
                                                                          > at a show a few weeks ago that I thought was Athearn until I got home
                                                                          > and noticed the Crown label on the underside.  I was wondering about
                                                                          > the history behind it.  I hope you find the ad.  I would like to see
                                                                          > it.
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Mark
                                                                          >

                                                                          >
                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                           

                                                                          --
                                                                          http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

                                                                          Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                                           
                                                                           


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                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 687 From: Dave Slater Date: 11/28/2005
                                                                          Subject: Re: HOTCO models?
                                                                          I was wrong, my version is the dreaded "B" word, couplers are truckmounted and I have posted some pics here..
                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/Dave%27s%20Dungeon/
                                                                          Dave S.

                                                                          Roger Aultman wrote:

                                                                           I can recall a four truck flatcar from Hong Kong, not sure if the
                                                                          couplers were body mnounted or on the trucks.  The only way to avoid
                                                                          derailments was on straight tracks and forward direction.
                                                                          Roger Aultman
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           

                                                                          mph261 wrote:
                                                                          > Don,
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Thanks for bringing up Crown.  I picked up a 40' Pennsylvania boxcar
                                                                          > at a show a few weeks ago that I thought was Athearn until I got home
                                                                          > and noticed the Crown label on the underside.  I was wondering about
                                                                          > the history behind it.  I hope you find the ad.  I would like to see
                                                                          > it.
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Mark
                                                                          >

                                                                          >
                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                          >
                                                                           

                                                                          --
                                                                          http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

                                                                          Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                                           
                                                                           


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                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 688 From: Roger Aultman Date: 11/28/2005
                                                                          Subject: Re: HOTCO models?
                                                                          It wouild be a neat trick to back that through some switches. Roger




                                                                          Dave Slater wrote:
                                                                          > I was wrong, my version is the dreaded "B" word, couplers are
                                                                          > truckmounted and I have posted some pics here..
                                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/Dave%27s%20Dungeon/
                                                                          > Dave S.
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Roger Aultman wrote:
                                                                          >
                                                                          >> I can recall a four truck flatcar from Hong Kong, not sure if the
                                                                          >> couplers were body mnounted or on the trucks. The only way to avoid
                                                                          >> derailments was on straight tracks and forward direction.
                                                                          >> Roger Aultman
                                                                          >>
                                                                          >>
                                                                          >>
                                                                          >>

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                                                                          --
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                                                                          Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
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                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 689 From: Dave Slater Date: 11/29/2005
                                                                          Subject: Re: HOTCO models?
                                                                          Roger,
                                                                          Trust me it is a tricky one..  LOL
                                                                          Dave S.

                                                                          Roger Aultman wrote:

                                                                           It wouild be a neat trick to back that through some switches.   Roger
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           

                                                                          Dave Slater wrote:
                                                                          > I was wrong, my version is the dreaded "B" word, couplers are
                                                                          > truckmounted and I have posted some pics here..
                                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/Dave%27s%20Dungeon/
                                                                          > Dave S.
                                                                          >
                                                                          > Roger Aultman wrote:
                                                                          >
                                                                          >>  I can recall a four truck flatcar from Hong Kong, not sure if the
                                                                          >> couplers were body mnounted or on the trucks.  The only way to avoid
                                                                          >> derailments was on straight tracks and forward direction.
                                                                          >> Roger Aultman
                                                                          >>
                                                                          >>
                                                                          >>
                                                                          >>

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                                                                          Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                                           
                                                                           


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                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 690 From: Robert K Nielsen Date: 11/29/2005
                                                                          Subject: Re: HOTCO models?
                                                                          This car reminds me of a Bachmann car I have inmy collection except that the Bachmann car has 2 Buckeye trucks (6 wheel) instead. 
                                                                          Rob, KC7WVN
                                                                          Cobalt Creek and Western
                                                                          RK Industries
                                                                           
                                                                          On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 20:38:13 -0600 Dave Slater <daslater@...> writes:
                                                                          I was wrong, my version is the dreaded "B" word, couplers are truckmounted and I have posted some pics here..
                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/Dave%27s%20Dungeon/
                                                                          Dave S.
                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 691 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 11/30/2005
                                                                          Subject: Re: HOTCO models?


                                                                          Robert K Nielsen <the_hobo@...> wrote:
                                                                          This car reminds me of a Bachmann car I have inmy collection except that the Bachmann car has 2 Buckeye trucks (6 wheel) instead. 
                                                                           
                                                                          The Bachmann 6 axle car is the same as their 8 axle car exept for the kingpin location.
                                                                           I have a couple 6 axle cars without trucks that I plan to bash into 8 axle cars.




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                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 692 From: Imp Ster Date: 12/1/2005
                                                                          Subject: re, the MDC (zinc) 200-ton flatcar
                                                                          awite, thats just sad to think that such a great model was cheapened
                                                                          still further.
                                                                          i speak of course of the 200-ton flat once made by MDC in full metal
                                                                          with dual trucks which i see illustrated in the David Sutton 'Complete
                                                                          Book of MRing', 1977, on page 204.

                                                                          of course i treasure my 2 styrene versions by Athearn, which i found to
                                                                          include parts for 4 of the classic Athearn sprung zinc trucks.
                                                                          however the thought that Bleecheman also pirated the thing in plastic,
                                                                          with X2Fs of course, makes me feel faint.

                                                                          btw, if any of ya'll happen to know where an imp could lay hold of one
                                                                          of those original (-or a few... o heck, how many ya got?-) all-metal
                                                                          flats, please do get in touch.
                                                                          it sounds like just the thing to pattern for a pirate foundry.
                                                                          ("trucks & couplers not included".)

                                                                          cheers, da imp

                                                                          ...
                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 693 From: Don Riley Date: 12/5/2005
                                                                          Subject: Re: re, the MDC (zinc) 200-ton flatcar
                                                                          So did anything come of this?
                                                                          Sad to think Bachmann would cheapen it more but well.
                                                                          Anyway did anything come of your idea to make more metal flats?
                                                                          I have a few metal trucks that would look sweet under one of those!
                                                                           
                                                                          Steamengine 4449

                                                                          Imp Ster <iimpster@...> wrote:
                                                                          awite, thats just sad to think that such a great model was cheapened
                                                                          still further.
                                                                          i speak of course of the 200-ton flat once made by MDC in full metal
                                                                          with dual trucks which i see illustrated in the David Sutton 'Complete
                                                                          Book of MRing', 1977, on page 204.

                                                                          of course i treasure my 2 styrene versions by Athearn, which i found to
                                                                          include parts for 4 of the classic Athearn sprung zinc trucks.
                                                                          however the thought that Bleecheman also pirated the thing in plastic,
                                                                          with X2Fs of course, makes me feel faint.

                                                                          btw, if any of ya'll happen to know where an imp could lay hold of one
                                                                          of those original (-or a few... o heck, how many ya got?-) all-metal
                                                                          flats, please do get in touch.
                                                                          it sounds like just the thing to pattern for a pirate foundry.
                                                                          ("trucks & couplers not included".)

                                                                          cheers, da imp


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                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 694 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/6/2005
                                                                          Subject: Latest aquisition
                                                                          Attachments :
                                                                            Newest addition to the Milwaukee Northern vintage roster, a "Mainline" 36'
                                                                            stock car. These were available from roughly 1960-1970 (I recall reading a
                                                                            review of it in MR ca. 1961, and the last listing I've seen in Walthers in
                                                                            either the 1970 or 1972 book (Forget which)

                                                                            Got two of these as unbuilt kits (The other is an MKT version) , along with
                                                                            a silver streak boxcar and a couple cardstock cars that needed restoration,
                                                                            on eBay about a month or so ago.

                                                                            Don

                                                                            don.dellmann@...
                                                                            http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                            moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
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                                                                            co-moderator: SCENERY@...
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                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 695 From: redehaas@dds.nl Date: 12/6/2005
                                                                            Subject: Re: Latest aquisition
                                                                            Hi Don,
                                                                            Congrats with your latest aquisition.
                                                                            One question about Mainline.
                                                                            I got some Mainline cars at home but these are originaly Varney.
                                                                            Due to war production Varney made their cars under the Mainline label.
                                                                            Is your Mainline the same as the Mainline I'm referring to?
                                                                            Can someone help me out on this?
                                                                            Kind regards,
                                                                            Rudolf






                                                                            Citeren Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...>:

                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Newest addition to the Milwaukee Northern vintage roster, a "Mainline" 36'
                                                                            >
                                                                            > stock car.  These were available from roughly 1960-1970 (I recall reading a
                                                                            >
                                                                            > review of it in MR ca. 1961, and the last listing I've seen in Walthers in
                                                                            >
                                                                            > either the 1970 or 1972 book (Forget which)
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Got two of these as unbuilt kits (The other is an MKT version) , along with
                                                                            >
                                                                            > a silver streak boxcar and a couple cardstock cars that needed restoration,
                                                                            >
                                                                            > on eBay about a month or so ago.
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Don
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            > don.dellmann@...
                                                                            >
                                                                            > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                            >
                                                                            > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                            >
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                                                                            >
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                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 696 From: erieberk Date: 12/6/2005
                                                                            Subject: Re: Latest aquisition
                                                                            Hi Rudolph, I recognized exactly what you are referring to from your
                                                                            message to Larry a couple of weeks ago about the old plans for the
                                                                            Mainline/Varney models. I have a number of these kits myself; not
                                                                            exactly easy to come by any more. These Mainline Models are not at
                                                                            all associated with Varney. In fact, that is the name of the
                                                                            manufacturing company (Mainline Models). They come in a yellow box
                                                                            with green printing, not at all similar to Varney's packaging.
                                                                            They're excellent kits (all wood), having pre-printed and lettered
                                                                            sides, similar to Silver Streak. Regards, Ray
                                                                            \
                                                                            --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, redehaas@d... wrote:
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Hi Don,
                                                                            > Congrats with your latest aquisition.
                                                                            > One question about Mainline.
                                                                            > I got some Mainline cars at home but these are originaly Varney.
                                                                            > Due to war production Varney made their cars under the Mainline
                                                                            label.
                                                                            > Is your Mainline the same as the Mainline I'm referring to?
                                                                            > Can someone help me out on this?
                                                                            > Kind regards,
                                                                            > Rudolf
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Citeren Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@p...>:
                                                                            >
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > Newest addition to the Milwaukee Northern vintage roster,
                                                                            a "Mainline" 36'
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > stock car.  These were available from roughly 1960-1970 (I recall
                                                                            reading a
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > review of it in MR ca. 1961, and the last listing I've seen in
                                                                            Walthers in
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > either the 1970 or 1972 book (Forget which)
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > Got two of these as unbuilt kits (The other is an MKT version) ,
                                                                            along with
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > a silver streak boxcar and a couple cardstock cars that needed
                                                                            restoration,
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > on eBay about a month or so ago.
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > Don
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > don.dellmann@p...
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > co-moderator: SCENERY@Y...
                                                                            > >
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                                                                            > >
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                                                                            > >  
                                                                            > >  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 697 From: erieberk Date: 12/6/2005
                                                                            Subject: Re: Latest aquisition
                                                                            Don, See you got some nice old additions to the rolling stock
                                                                            roster; nice going again. I saw those same models on eBay; glad to
                                                                            see you were able to get them. Mainline Models produced over 100
                                                                            different kits. You should watch out for their 36' and 40' billboard
                                                                            reefers if you're into that period. Regards, Ray W.
                                                                            \
                                                                            --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...>
                                                                            wrote:
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Newest addition to the Milwaukee Northern vintage roster,
                                                                            a "Mainline" 36'
                                                                            > stock car. These were available from roughly 1960-1970 (I recall
                                                                            reading a
                                                                            > review of it in MR ca. 1961, and the last listing I've seen in
                                                                            Walthers in
                                                                            > either the 1970 or 1972 book (Forget which)
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Got two of these as unbuilt kits (The other is an MKT version) ,
                                                                            along with
                                                                            > a silver streak boxcar and a couple cardstock cars that needed
                                                                            restoration,
                                                                            > on eBay about a month or so ago.
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Don
                                                                            >
                                                                            > don.dellmann@p...
                                                                            > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                            > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                            > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                            > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                            > co-moderator: SCENERY@Y...
                                                                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                            >
                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 698 From: don.dellmann Date: 12/6/2005
                                                                            Subject: Re: Latest aquisition
                                                                            I don't think so. This "Mainline" was a producer of craftsmen type wooden
                                                                            kits in HO & O in the 1950's and 60's. They were located in Falls Church VA.
                                                                            At that time, Varney was in Florida.

                                                                            Don

                                                                            don.dellmann@...
                                                                            http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                            moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                            moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                            moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                            co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO

                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                            From: <redehaas@...>
                                                                            To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                            Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 9:08 AM
                                                                            Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Latest aquisition


                                                                            Hi Don,
                                                                            Congrats with your latest aquisition.
                                                                            One question about Mainline.
                                                                            I got some Mainline cars at home but these are originaly Varney.
                                                                            Due to war production Varney made their cars under the Mainline label.
                                                                            Is your Mainline the same as the Mainline I'm referring to?
                                                                            Can someone help me out on this?
                                                                            Kind regards,
                                                                            Rudolf






                                                                            Citeren Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...>:

                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Newest addition to the Milwaukee Northern vintage roster, a "Mainline" 36'
                                                                            >
                                                                            > stock car. These were available from roughly 1960-1970 (I recall reading
                                                                            a
                                                                            >
                                                                            > review of it in MR ca. 1961, and the last listing I've seen in Walthers in
                                                                            >
                                                                            > either the 1970 or 1972 book (Forget which)
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Got two of these as unbuilt kits (The other is an MKT version) , along
                                                                            with
                                                                            >
                                                                            > a silver streak boxcar and a couple cardstock cars that needed
                                                                            restoration,
                                                                            >
                                                                            > on eBay about a month or so ago.
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Don
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            > don.dellmann@...
                                                                            >
                                                                            > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                            >
                                                                            > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                            >
                                                                            > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                            >
                                                                            > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                            >
                                                                            > co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                            >
                                                                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                            >
                                                                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            > SPONSORED LINKS
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            > G scale train
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Ho scale model train
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Model train n scale
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            > G scale model train
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Ho scale trains
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            > N scale trains
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
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                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Visit your group "vintageHO" on the web.
                                                                            >
                                                                            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                            > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
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                                                                            >





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                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 699 From: don.dellmann Date: 12/6/2005
                                                                            Subject: Re: Latest aquisition
                                                                            Attachments :
                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                              From: erieberk <erieberk@...>
                                                                              To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                              Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 10:01 AM
                                                                              Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Latest aquisition


                                                                              > Don, See you got some nice old additions to the rolling stock
                                                                              > roster; nice going again. I saw those same models on eBay; glad to
                                                                              > see you were able to get them. Mainline Models produced over 100
                                                                              > different kits. You should watch out for their 36' and 40' billboard
                                                                              > reefers if you're into that period. Regards, Ray W.
                                                                              > \

                                                                              I don't remember if I posted the photos or not, but these were two other
                                                                              cars from that same auction (as they appear today, NOT as they were when I
                                                                              got them <G>).

                                                                              Don

                                                                              don.dellmann@...
                                                                              http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                              moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                              moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                              moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                              co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 700 From: Roger Aultman Date: 12/6/2005
                                                                              Subject: Re: Latest aquisition
                                                                              Thbat is a good looking stock car, nice assembly job also.
                                                                              Roger Aultman




                                                                              Don Dellmann wrote:
                                                                              > Newest addition to the Milwaukee Northern vintage roster, a "Mainline" 36'
                                                                              > stock car. These were available from roughly 1960-1970 (I recall reading a
                                                                              > review of it in MR ca. 1961, and the last listing I've seen in Walthers in
                                                                              > either the 1970 or 1972 book (Forget which)
                                                                              >
                                                                              > Got two of these as unbuilt kits (The other is an MKT version) , along with
                                                                              > a silver streak boxcar and a couple cardstock cars that needed restoration,
                                                                              > on eBay about a month or so ago.
                                                                              >
                                                                              > Don
                                                                              >
                                                                              > don.dellmann@...
                                                                              > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                              > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                              > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                              > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                              > co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                              >
                                                                              >
                                                                              >
                                                                              >
                                                                              >
                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                              >
                                                                              >
                                                                              >
                                                                              >
                                                                              >
                                                                              >
                                                                              > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                              >


                                                                              --
                                                                              http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

                                                                              Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 701 From: redehaas@dds.nl Date: 12/6/2005
                                                                              Subject: Mainline by Varney
                                                                              Attachments :
                                                                                Well according to this box I have, Varney was in Chicago then...
                                                                                Quoting Greenberg, Varney produced Mainline kits between June 1940 - late 1945!
                                                                                So, did the later Mainline kits just copy the name or is it a remain of the
                                                                                Varney Mainline kits of the 40s???? Who knows some answers here...
                                                                                Rudolf



                                                                                Citeren "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>:

                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > I don't think so.  This "Mainline" was a producer of craftsmen type wooden
                                                                                >
                                                                                > kits in HO & O in the 1950's and 60's. They were located in Falls Church VA.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > At that time, Varney was in Florida.
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Don
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > don.dellmann@...
                                                                                >
                                                                                > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                >
                                                                                > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                >
                                                                                > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                >
                                                                                > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                >
                                                                                > co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                >
                                                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                >
                                                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                >
                                                                                > From: <redehaas@...>
                                                                                >
                                                                                > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 9:08 AM
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Latest aquisition
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Hi Don,
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Congrats with your latest aquisition.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > One question about Mainline.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > I got some Mainline cars at home but these are originaly Varney.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Due to war production Varney made their cars under the Mainline label.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Is your Mainline the same as the Mainline I'm referring to?
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Can someone help me out on this?
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Kind regards,
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Rudolf
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Citeren Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...>:
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > > Newest addition to the Milwaukee Northern vintage roster, a "Mainline" 36'
                                                                                >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > > stock car.  These were available from roughly 1960-1970 (I recall reading
                                                                                >
                                                                                > a
                                                                                >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > > review of it in MR ca. 1961, and the last listing I've seen in Walthers in
                                                                                >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > > either the 1970 or 1972 book (Forget which)
                                                                                >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > > Got two of these as unbuilt kits (The other is an MKT version) , along
                                                                                >
                                                                                > with
                                                                                >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > > a silver streak boxcar and a couple cardstock cars that needed
                                                                                >
                                                                                > restoration,
                                                                                >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > > on eBay about a month or so ago.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > > Don
                                                                                >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > > don.dellmann@...
                                                                                >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
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                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 702 From: Imp Ster Date: 12/6/2005
                                                                                Subject: the 200-ton metal flat redux
                                                                                hi Don, tnx for the shout-out - nothing going on here but us collectors.
                                                                                not being an E-bay maven as the rest of yiz, nevertheless about once a
                                                                                year i manage to find some dessicated example of desirable vintage die-
                                                                                cast.
                                                                                however, i'm serious about establishing some sort of HO conservatory -
                                                                                reproduction facility.

                                                                                if that regrettable ancestral real estate sale goes though, i plan to
                                                                                invest whatever ill-gotten gains i may receive, into a few basic
                                                                                projects of such things as all-metal: flats, Overtons, olde-tyme boxes
                                                                                and reefers ( btw, anybody have any idea why MDC in the terminal throes
                                                                                of dissolution quit producing their working boxcar doors in favor of
                                                                                the lame one-piece castings?? ... never mind, i really dont want to
                                                                                know... just another lucrative modeling opp for ME!)
                                                                                ...as well as zinc replacements for the unfortunate plastic tender
                                                                                bodies, boilers, pilots, cabs, trailing trucks, etc etc.

                                                                                then, there is my pet project of designing a kit for a tender-mounted
                                                                                heavy fly-wheel device to re-power stock Mantua Pacifics, Mikes,
                                                                                Hudsons etc.
                                                                                possibly based on a mid-era Athearn twin-fly motor (with extra fly-
                                                                                wheels - ) with knuckle-shaft or flexible-spring drive-line thru the
                                                                                cab to the main driver set.

                                                                                btw, anyone having experience in die-cast and lost-wax production is
                                                                                heartily welcome to rattle my cage.
                                                                                this project will depend a great deal on intel from the artists
                                                                                formerly known as North American Railroad Hobby Production Executives.

                                                                                (i'd like to think i could get this project going before they all "fade
                                                                                away"!)

                                                                                cheers

                                                                                ...
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 703 From: don.dellmann Date: 12/6/2005
                                                                                Subject: Re: Latest aquisition
                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                From: Roger Aultman <raul@...>
                                                                                To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 9:12 AM
                                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Latest aquisition


                                                                                > Thbat is a good looking stock car, nice assembly job also.
                                                                                > Roger Aultman
                                                                                >

                                                                                It has it's flaws. I DID learn some things building this one that will make
                                                                                the MKT one go together better though.

                                                                                It's fiddly, because there's no end blocks inside, the only support between
                                                                                the the floor and the roof is the side ribs. Once you're done, the sides
                                                                                are all individual slats.

                                                                                Don

                                                                                don.dellmann@...
                                                                                http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
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                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 704 From: don.dellmann Date: 12/6/2005
                                                                                Subject: Re: Mainline by Varney
                                                                                Varney was in Chicago in the 40's, yes, I was talking about the later 50's
                                                                                when the Mainline wood kits were out. Varney was also in California for a
                                                                                time, I'm not sure when. I believe I do have some boxes marked "Hollywood,
                                                                                CA"

                                                                                Don

                                                                                don.dellmann@...
                                                                                http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
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                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                From: <redehaas@...>
                                                                                To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                Cc: <don.dellmann@...>; <erieberk@...>
                                                                                Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 1:57 PM
                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] Mainline by Varney


                                                                                Well according to this box I have, Varney was in Chicago then...
                                                                                Quoting Greenberg, Varney produced Mainline kits between June 1940 - late
                                                                                1945!
                                                                                So, did the later Mainline kits just copy the name or is it a remain of the
                                                                                Varney Mainline kits of the 40s???? Who knows some answers here...
                                                                                Rudolf



                                                                                Citeren "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>:

                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > I don't think so. This "Mainline" was a producer of craftsmen type wooden
                                                                                >
                                                                                > kits in HO & O in the 1950's and 60's. They were located in Falls Church
                                                                                VA.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > At that time, Varney was in Florida.
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Don
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > don.dellmann@...
                                                                                >
                                                                                > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                >
                                                                                > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                >
                                                                                > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                >
                                                                                > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                >
                                                                                > co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                >
                                                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                >
                                                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                >
                                                                                > From: <redehaas@...>
                                                                                >
                                                                                > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 9:08 AM
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Latest aquisition
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Hi Don,
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Congrats with your latest aquisition.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > One question about Mainline.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > I got some Mainline cars at home but these are originaly Varney.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Due to war production Varney made their cars under the Mainline label.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Is your Mainline the same as the Mainline I'm referring to?
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Can someone help me out on this?
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Kind regards,
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Rudolf
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Citeren Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...>:
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > > Newest addition to the Milwaukee Northern vintage roster, a "Mainline"
                                                                                36'
                                                                                >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > > stock car. These were available from roughly 1960-1970 (I recall
                                                                                reading
                                                                                >
                                                                                > a
                                                                                >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > > review of it in MR ca. 1961, and the last listing I've seen in Walthers
                                                                                in
                                                                                >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > > either the 1970 or 1972 book (Forget which)
                                                                                >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > > Got two of these as unbuilt kits (The other is an MKT version) , along
                                                                                >
                                                                                > with
                                                                                >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > > a silver streak boxcar and a couple cardstock cars that needed
                                                                                >
                                                                                > restoration,
                                                                                >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > > on eBay about a month or so ago.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > > Don
                                                                                >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > > don.dellmann@...
                                                                                >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
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                                                                                >
                                                                                > > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
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                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > > co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
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                                                                                ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                                                                                ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                ----
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 705 From: erieberk Date: 12/6/2005
                                                                                Subject: Re: Mainline by Varney
                                                                                To answer your question: As I previously mentioned, this Mainline
                                                                                Models (of the '50's and '60's) was not associated with Varney in any
                                                                                way shape or form. They had nothing at all to do with Varney; they
                                                                                were an entirely different company. Coincidentally, the name is the
                                                                                same, but it remains to be seen whether they actually intended to
                                                                                copy the name from Varney. Ray
                                                                                \
                                                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, redehaas@d... wrote:
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Well according to this box I have, Varney was in Chicago then...
                                                                                > Quoting Greenberg, Varney produced Mainline kits between June 1940 -
                                                                                late 1945!
                                                                                > So, did the later Mainline kits just copy the name or is it a
                                                                                remain of the
                                                                                > Varney Mainline kits of the 40s???? Who knows some answers here...
                                                                                > Rudolf
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Citeren "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...>:
                                                                                >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > I don't think so.  This "Mainline" was a producer of craftsmen
                                                                                type wooden
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > kits in HO & O in the 1950's and 60's. They were located in Falls
                                                                                Church VA.
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > At that time, Varney was in Florida.
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > Don
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > don.dellmann@p...
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > co-moderator: SCENERY@Y...
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > From: <redehaas@d...>
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 9:08 AM
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Latest aquisition
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > Hi Don,
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > Congrats with your latest aquisition.
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > One question about Mainline.
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > I got some Mainline cars at home but these are originaly Varney.
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > Due to war production Varney made their cars under the Mainline
                                                                                label.
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > Is your Mainline the same as the Mainline I'm referring to?
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > Can someone help me out on this?
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > Kind regards,
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > Rudolf
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > Citeren Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@p...>:
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > > Newest addition to the Milwaukee Northern vintage roster,
                                                                                a "Mainline" 36'
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > > stock car.  These were available from roughly 1960-1970 (I
                                                                                recall reading
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > a
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > > review of it in MR ca. 1961, and the last listing I've seen in
                                                                                Walthers in
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > > either the 1970 or 1972 book (Forget which)
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > > Got two of these as unbuilt kits (The other is an MKT
                                                                                version) , along
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > with
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > > a silver streak boxcar and a couple cardstock cars that needed
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > restoration,
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > > on eBay about a month or so ago.
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > > Don
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > > don.dellmann@p...
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
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                                                                                > > > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > > co-moderator: SCENERY@Y...
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
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                                                                                > > >         G scale train
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                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 706 From: erieberk Date: 12/6/2005
                                                                                Subject: Re: Latest aquisition
                                                                                Yeah, I seem to remember these cars as kits in the auction. Just
                                                                                checked out your photos since you mentioned it -- I was not aware
                                                                                that you built any. The ATSF stock car looks nicely done; pretty
                                                                                decent job of building it. This one has come a long way. Ray
                                                                                \
                                                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...>
                                                                                wrote:
                                                                                >
                                                                                > I don't remember if I posted the photos or not, but these were two
                                                                                other
                                                                                > cars from that same auction (as they appear today, NOT as they were
                                                                                when I
                                                                                > got them <G>).
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Don
                                                                                >
                                                                                > don.dellmann@p...
                                                                                > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                > co-moderator: SCENERY@Y...
                                                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                >
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 707 From: Bill C. Date: 12/6/2005
                                                                                Subject: It could be...
                                                                                Don,

                                                                                The photo of one of your treasures, PRR 40 box #56944, looks alot like
                                                                                a Menzies model. I belive the Menzies line later became Globe, then
                                                                                Athearn. These cars (kits) were reproduced in the late 80's by Bowser,
                                                                                along with a better paint and printing job than originally produced.

                                                                                Bill C.
                                                                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Vintage-Freight-Cars-N-Crummys
                                                                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/modelrailroadsofna
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 708 From: don.dellmann Date: 12/7/2005
                                                                                Subject: Re: It could be...
                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                From: Bill C. <pennsysdaddy@...>
                                                                                To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 1:05 AM
                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] It could be...


                                                                                > Don,
                                                                                >
                                                                                > The photo of one of your treasures, PRR 40 box #56944, looks alot like
                                                                                > a Menzies model. I belive the Menzies line later became Globe, then
                                                                                > Athearn. These cars (kits) were reproduced in the late 80's by Bowser,
                                                                                > along with a better paint and printing job than originally produced.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Bill C.
                                                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Vintage-Freight-Cars-N-Crummys
                                                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/modelrailroadsofna

                                                                                I thought the timeline was the other way around.

                                                                                Globe / Athearn / Pacific HO / Menzies / Bowser.

                                                                                Don

                                                                                don.dellmann@...
                                                                                http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
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                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 709 From: Don Riley Date: 12/7/2005
                                                                                Subject: Re: It could be...
                                                                                It is! He got them in the wrong order. But he got them in.
                                                                                Now then. My car in a bag claims to have been made by J. D. Baker. It gives PO box 153 Silverton Oregon 97381. Yes this means it was later as zip codes came in about 67. So was it made after Menzies?
                                                                                 
                                                                                Steamengine 4449

                                                                                "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                                                                I thought the timeline was the other way around.

                                                                                Globe / Athearn / Pacific HO / Menzies / Bowser.

                                                                                Don


                                                                                Yahoo! Personals
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                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 710 From: Wobbly913 Date: 12/7/2005
                                                                                Subject: Re: the 200-ton metal flat redux
                                                                                Hi Imp
                                                                                Very interesting idea you have here.  I have recently purchased several of the old Athearn cast metal 200 ton cranes.  Of the several I have gotten only one is in really good shape, the rest are suffering with the age of the materials, some pieces are simply crumbling, others have broken off "ears" or mounting lugs. They have sprung cast metal buckeye trucks and the tiny sideframes and bolsters seem particularly prone to total failure. I have several times thought how neat it would be to be able to come up with replaement cast metal sideframes and bolsters for them, but know nothing of the process that would be required to produce them. 
                                                                                Athearn still offers the plastic buckeye trucks and I bought one set for one of my cranes, but they are not the same as keeping the model completely as the original.
                                                                                Wobbly913


                                                                                Imp Ster <iimpster@...> wrote:
                                                                                hi Don, tnx for the shout-out - nothing going on here but us collectors.
                                                                                not being an E-bay maven as the rest of yiz, nevertheless about once a
                                                                                year i manage to find some dessicated example of desirable vintage die-
                                                                                cast.
                                                                                however, i'm serious about establishing some sort of HO conservatory -
                                                                                reproduction facility.

                                                                                if that regrettable ancestral real estate sale goes though, i plan to
                                                                                invest whatever ill-gotten gains i may receive, into a few basic
                                                                                projects of such things as all-metal: flats, Overtons, olde-tyme boxes
                                                                                and reefers ( btw, anybody have any idea why MDC in the terminal throes
                                                                                of dissolution quit producing their working boxcar doors in favor of
                                                                                the lame one-piece castings?? ... never mind, i really dont want to
                                                                                know... just another lucrative modeling opp for ME!)
                                                                                ...as well as zinc replacements for the unfortunate plastic tender
                                                                                bodies, boilers, pilots, cabs, trailing trucks, etc etc.

                                                                                then, there is my pet project of designing a kit for a tender-mounted
                                                                                heavy fly-wheel device to re-power stock Mantua Pacifics, Mikes,
                                                                                Hudsons etc.
                                                                                possibly based on a mid-era Athearn twin-fly motor (with extra fly-
                                                                                wheels - ) with knuckle-shaft or flexible-spring drive-line thru the
                                                                                cab to the main driver set.

                                                                                btw, anyone having experience in die-cast and lost-wax production is
                                                                                heartily welcome to rattle my cage.
                                                                                this project will depend a great deal on intel from the artists
                                                                                formerly known as North American Railroad Hobby Production Executives.

                                                                                (i'd like to think i could get this project going before they all "fade
                                                                                away"!)

                                                                                cheers

                                                                                ...







                                                                                YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS






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                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 711 From: erieberk Date: 12/7/2005
                                                                                Subject: Re: It could be...
                                                                                Don, Yes, you are correct in assuming that these cars produced by
                                                                                D.J. Baker were put out right after G.F. Menzies, although having a
                                                                                zip code has nothing to do with dating them. Baker marketed these
                                                                                cars in the mid-'80's. Not sure off the top of my head exactly when,
                                                                                but I could dig it out if needed. It was after 1984 as Menzies was
                                                                                still being listed in the Walther's catalog as of that year.
                                                                                Incidentally (or should I say, curiously), G.F. Menzies labels have
                                                                                the same address -- P.O. Box 153, Silverton, Oregon 97381. I haven't
                                                                                looked at my Baker collection recently, but have to assume you're
                                                                                correct with their address as well. Another outfit was also
                                                                                reproducing Athearn metal cars in the late '70's -- early '80's,
                                                                                with roadnames other than what any of these other manufacturers
                                                                                used. These were produced by Park Varieties. Some (but not all) of
                                                                                these cars are listed in the Greenberg's Athearn Guide. Best
                                                                                Regards, Ray W.
                                                                                \
                                                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Don Riley <steamengine4449us@y...>
                                                                                wrote:
                                                                                >
                                                                                > It is! He got them in the wrong order. But he got them in.
                                                                                > Now then. My car in a bag claims to have been made by J. D.
                                                                                Baker. It gives PO box 153 Silverton Oregon 97381. Yes this means it
                                                                                was later as zip codes came in about 67. So was it made after Menzies?
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Steamengine 4449
                                                                                >
                                                                                > "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...> wrote:
                                                                                > I thought the timeline was the other way around.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Globe / Athearn / Pacific HO / Menzies / Bowser.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Don
                                                                                >
                                                                                > ---------------------------------
                                                                                > Yahoo! Personals
                                                                                > Single? There's someone we'd like you to meet.
                                                                                > Lots of someones, actually. Try Yahoo! Personals
                                                                                >
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 712 From: erieberk Date: 12/7/2005
                                                                                Subject: Re: It could be...
                                                                                Don, Almost forgot; there was a manufacturer using the Athearn metal
                                                                                kit components, back while Irving was still producing his metal
                                                                                kits. They were buying all the parts from Athearn, painting the
                                                                                sides and silk screening the lettering themselves. This was
                                                                                Modelmaster, and they produced only Great Northern Orange in a series
                                                                                of about 14 or more roadnumbers. They were very interesting but
                                                                                could very easily be confused with Athearn cars after they were
                                                                                built. I would have to dig into my collection to see if perhaps the
                                                                                roadnumbers were different. Ray
                                                                                \
                                                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "erieberk" <erieberk@w...> wrote:
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Don, Yes, you are correct in assuming that these cars produced by
                                                                                > D.J. Baker were put out right after G.F. Menzies, although having a
                                                                                > zip code has nothing to do with dating them. Baker marketed these
                                                                                > cars in the mid-'80's. Not sure off the top of my head exactly
                                                                                when,
                                                                                > but I could dig it out if needed. It was after 1984 as Menzies was
                                                                                > still being listed in the Walther's catalog as of that year.
                                                                                > Incidentally (or should I say, curiously), G.F. Menzies labels
                                                                                have
                                                                                > the same address -- P.O. Box 153, Silverton, Oregon 97381. I
                                                                                haven't
                                                                                > looked at my Baker collection recently, but have to assume you're
                                                                                > correct with their address as well. Another outfit was also
                                                                                > reproducing Athearn metal cars in the late '70's -- early '80's,
                                                                                > with roadnames other than what any of these other manufacturers
                                                                                > used. These were produced by Park Varieties. Some (but not all)
                                                                                of
                                                                                > these cars are listed in the Greenberg's Athearn Guide. Best
                                                                                > Regards, Ray W.
                                                                                >
                                                                                \
                                                                                > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Don Riley
                                                                                <steamengine4449us@y...>
                                                                                > wrote:
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > It is! He got them in the wrong order. But he got them in.
                                                                                > > Now then. My car in a bag claims to have been made by J. D.
                                                                                > Baker. It gives PO box 153 Silverton Oregon 97381. Yes this means
                                                                                it
                                                                                > was later as zip codes came in about 67. So was it made after
                                                                                Menzies?
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > Steamengine 4449
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...> wrote:
                                                                                > > I thought the timeline was the other way around.
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > Globe / Athearn / Pacific HO / Menzies / Bowser.
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > Don
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > ---------------------------------
                                                                                > > Yahoo! Personals
                                                                                > > Single? There's someone we'd like you to meet.
                                                                                > > Lots of someones, actually. Try Yahoo! Personals
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 713 From: erieberk Date: 12/7/2005
                                                                                Subject: Re: It could be...
                                                                                Sorry Don, I spoke (wrote) too soon. I need to correct myself
                                                                                and/or add to the info found below (been a while since I was into
                                                                                this stuff, but I knew something was bothering me). While
                                                                                Modelmaster's only line was Great Northern Orange (40' box cars), it
                                                                                was Athearn who painted and lettered them for Modelmaster. Athearn
                                                                                then sold the over-run of these kits to their own customers. So,
                                                                                there are both Athearn and Modelmaster GN Orange cars out there both
                                                                                with the same roadnumbers. Modelmaster of course packaged them in
                                                                                their own boxes with their own name. As I recall, their boxes were
                                                                                narrower and higher (and colored orange). Ray W.
                                                                                \
                                                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "erieberk" <erieberk@w...> wrote:
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Don, Almost forgot; there was a manufacturer using the Athearn
                                                                                metal
                                                                                > kit components, back while Irving was still producing his metal
                                                                                > kits. They were buying all the parts from Athearn, painting the
                                                                                > sides and silk screening the lettering themselves. This was
                                                                                > Modelmaster, and they produced only Great Northern Orange in a
                                                                                series
                                                                                > of about 14 or more roadnumbers. They were very interesting but
                                                                                > could very easily be confused with Athearn cars after they were
                                                                                > built. I would have to dig into my collection to see if perhaps the
                                                                                > roadnumbers were different.
                                                                                Ray
                                                                                >
                                                                                > > >
                                                                                > > > ---------------------------------
                                                                                > > > Yahoo! Personals
                                                                                > > > Single? There's someone we'd like you to meet.
                                                                                > > > Lots of someones, actually. Try Yahoo! Personals
                                                                                > > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 714 From: madchemep2@aol.com Date: 12/7/2005
                                                                                Subject: Re: Digest Number 207
                                                                                Hello Don and Others: On the subject of Zip Codes, I believe they were started in 1963. Regards Al Campbell
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 715 From: don.dellmann Date: 12/7/2005
                                                                                Subject: Re: It could be...
                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                From: erieberk <erieberk@...>
                                                                                To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 3:18 PM
                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] Re: It could be...


                                                                                > Don, Yes, you are correct in assuming that these cars produced by
                                                                                > D.J. Baker were put out right after G.F. Menzies, although having a
                                                                                > zip code has nothing to do with dating them. Baker marketed these
                                                                                > cars in the mid-'80's. Not sure off the top of my head exactly when,
                                                                                > but I could dig it out if needed. It was after 1984 as Menzies was
                                                                                > still being listed in the Walther's catalog as of that year.
                                                                                > Incidentally (or should I say, curiously), G.F. Menzies labels have
                                                                                > the same address -- P.O. Box 153, Silverton, Oregon 97381. I haven't
                                                                                > looked at my Baker collection recently, but have to assume you're
                                                                                > correct with their address as well. Another outfit was also
                                                                                > reproducing Athearn metal cars in the late '70's -- early '80's,
                                                                                > with roadnames other than what any of these other manufacturers
                                                                                > used. These were produced by Park Varieties. Some (but not all) of
                                                                                > these cars are listed in the Greenberg's Athearn Guide. Best
                                                                                > Regards, Ray W.

                                                                                I wonder if "park" is the source for my 50' Auto box in the Pennsy "Shadow
                                                                                Keystone" theme?

                                                                                Don

                                                                                don.dellmann@...
                                                                                http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
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                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 716 From: don.dellmann Date: 12/7/2005
                                                                                Subject: Re: the 200-ton metal flat redux
                                                                                FWIW, as to the Athearn sprung Buckeyes, I've got one extra truck in good
                                                                                shape. (One pair is under my Red Ball crane, I came up with another pair
                                                                                out of a parts assortment but one truck was good, one suffered from lead
                                                                                rot.)

                                                                                If that one truck is of any use........?

                                                                                Don

                                                                                don.dellmann@...
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                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                From: Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...>
                                                                                To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 1:00 PM
                                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] the 200-ton metal flat redux


                                                                                > Hi Imp
                                                                                > Very interesting idea you have here. I have recently purchased several
                                                                                of the old Athearn cast metal 200 ton cranes. Of the several I have gotten
                                                                                only one is in really good shape, the rest are suffering with the age of the
                                                                                materials, some pieces are simply crumbling, others have broken off "ears"
                                                                                or mounting lugs. They have sprung cast metal buckeye trucks and the tiny
                                                                                sideframes and bolsters seem particularly prone to total failure. I have
                                                                                several times thought how neat it would be to be able to come up with
                                                                                replaement cast metal sideframes and bolsters for them, but know nothing of
                                                                                the process that would be required to produce them.
                                                                                > Athearn still offers the plastic buckeye trucks and I bought one set for
                                                                                one of my cranes, but they are not the same as keeping the model completely
                                                                                as the original.
                                                                                > Wobbly913
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Imp Ster <iimpster@...> wrote:
                                                                                > hi Don, tnx for the shout-out - nothing going on here but us collectors.
                                                                                > not being an E-bay maven as the rest of yiz, nevertheless about once a
                                                                                > year i manage to find some dessicated example of desirable vintage die-
                                                                                > cast.
                                                                                > however, i'm serious about establishing some sort of HO conservatory -
                                                                                > reproduction facility.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > if that regrettable ancestral real estate sale goes though, i plan to
                                                                                > invest whatever ill-gotten gains i may receive, into a few basic
                                                                                > projects of such things as all-metal: flats, Overtons, olde-tyme boxes
                                                                                > and reefers ( btw, anybody have any idea why MDC in the terminal throes
                                                                                > of dissolution quit producing their working boxcar doors in favor of
                                                                                > the lame one-piece castings?? ... never mind, i really dont want to
                                                                                > know... just another lucrative modeling opp for ME!)
                                                                                > ...as well as zinc replacements for the unfortunate plastic tender
                                                                                > bodies, boilers, pilots, cabs, trailing trucks, etc etc.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > then, there is my pet project of designing a kit for a tender-mounted
                                                                                > heavy fly-wheel device to re-power stock Mantua Pacifics, Mikes,
                                                                                > Hudsons etc.
                                                                                > possibly based on a mid-era Athearn twin-fly motor (with extra fly-
                                                                                > wheels - ) with knuckle-shaft or flexible-spring drive-line thru the
                                                                                > cab to the main driver set.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > btw, anyone having experience in die-cast and lost-wax production is
                                                                                > heartily welcome to rattle my cage.
                                                                                > this project will depend a great deal on intel from the artists
                                                                                > formerly known as North American Railroad Hobby Production Executives.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > (i'd like to think i could get this project going before they all "fade
                                                                                > away"!)
                                                                                >
                                                                                > cheers
                                                                                >
                                                                                > ...
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > SPONSORED LINKS
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                                                                                scale model train Ho scale trains N scale trains
                                                                                >
                                                                                > ---------------------------------
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                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Visit your group "vintageHO" on the web.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > ---------------------------------
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > ---------------------------------
                                                                                > Yahoo! Personals
                                                                                > Single? There's someone we'd like you to meet.
                                                                                > Lots of someones, actually. Yahoo! Personals
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 717 From: erieberk Date: 12/8/2005
                                                                                Subject: Re: It could be...
                                                                                Don, If your 50' PRR auto Box has either #74405 or #76233 as the
                                                                                roadnumber, it is most probable that you have a Park Varieties car;
                                                                                they issued these two numbers. Athearn did not issue an AAR roof
                                                                                50' auto car in the PRR roadname, only round roof in the 50' PRR
                                                                                auto. I'll dig into my collection to physically view the P.V. PRR
                                                                                50' autos to check if the Pennsy shadow keystone was used as the logo
                                                                                in the lettering and will let you know for sure. Might take a little
                                                                                time, the collection takes up half the attic, but will get to it.
                                                                                I'm curious now, myself. Ray
                                                                                \
                                                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...>
                                                                                wrote:
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                > From: erieberk <erieberk@w...>
                                                                                > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                > Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 3:18 PM
                                                                                > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: It could be...
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > > Don, Yes, you are correct in assuming that these cars produced by
                                                                                > > D.J. Baker were put out right after G.F. Menzies, although having
                                                                                a
                                                                                > > zip code has nothing to do with dating them. Baker marketed these
                                                                                > > cars in the mid-'80's. Not sure off the top of my head exactly
                                                                                when,
                                                                                > > but I could dig it out if needed. It was after 1984 as Menzies
                                                                                was
                                                                                > > still being listed in the Walther's catalog as of that year.
                                                                                > > Incidentally (or should I say, curiously), G.F. Menzies labels
                                                                                have
                                                                                > > the same address -- P.O. Box 153, Silverton, Oregon 97381. I
                                                                                haven't
                                                                                > > looked at my Baker collection recently, but have to assume you're
                                                                                > > correct with their address as well. Another outfit was also
                                                                                > > reproducing Athearn metal cars in the late '70's -- early '80's,
                                                                                > > with roadnames other than what any of these other manufacturers
                                                                                > > used. These were produced by Park Varieties. Some (but not all)
                                                                                of
                                                                                > > these cars are listed in the Greenberg's Athearn Guide. Best
                                                                                > > Regards, Ray W.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > I wonder if "park" is the source for my 50' Auto box in the
                                                                                Pennsy "Shadow
                                                                                > Keystone" theme?
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Don
                                                                                >
                                                                                > don.dellmann@p...
                                                                                > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                > co-moderator: SCENERY@Y...
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                                                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                >
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 718 From: Imp Ster Date: 12/8/2005
                                                                                Subject: the "sprung" zinc Buckeye vs. the Delrin
                                                                                curious - i, too, have an odd-man-out equalised Buckeye in zinc.
                                                                                itv was found along with a solid-frame cast Buckeye on soe refugee
                                                                                Athearn styrene Pullman.
                                                                                so the sprung Bucks were made by Athearn, ya say? - interesting - i had
                                                                                long assumed it was a Central Valley product.

                                                                                i gave up finding another edition long ago, so now regretfully, i
                                                                                cannot offer the truck in trade as it has found a home as the 'heavy' 6-
                                                                                whl truck under the Athearn rotary snowplow.

                                                                                btw Wobbly913, rest assured that these 6-whl trucks in particular are
                                                                                on my short-list of patterns to pirate.
                                                                                recently i've seen the costly greenway lost-wax brass versions that
                                                                                were not half so well-made, suffering from under-sized springs and
                                                                                inferior side-frame design.

                                                                                (ah'm playing Scrooge this time around... harrumph.)

                                                                                ...
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 719 From: Wobbly913 Date: 12/8/2005
                                                                                Subject: Re: the 200-ton metal flat redux
                                                                                Don
                                                                                Thanks for your reply.  I need 5 of these trucks to keep with all metal sprung trucks so yes, one would help. Just let me know what you need for it.
                                                                                 
                                                                                Thanks
                                                                                Wobbly913

                                                                                "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                                                                FWIW, as to the Athearn sprung Buckeyes, I've got one extra truck in good
                                                                                shape.  (One pair is under my Red Ball crane, I came up with another pair
                                                                                out of a parts assortment but one truck was good, one suffered from lead
                                                                                rot.)

                                                                                If that one truck is of any use........?

                                                                                Don

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                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                From: Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...>
                                                                                To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 1:00 PM
                                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] the 200-ton metal flat redux


                                                                                > Hi Imp
                                                                                >   Very interesting idea you have here.  I have recently purchased several
                                                                                of the old Athearn cast metal 200 ton cranes.  Of the several I have gotten
                                                                                only one is in really good shape, the rest are suffering with the age of the
                                                                                materials, some pieces are simply crumbling, others have broken off "ears"
                                                                                or mounting lugs. They have sprung cast metal buckeye trucks and the tiny
                                                                                sideframes and bolsters seem particularly prone to total failure. I have
                                                                                several times thought how neat it would be to be able to come up with
                                                                                replaement cast metal sideframes and bolsters for them, but know nothing of
                                                                                the process that would be required to produce them.
                                                                                >   Athearn still offers the plastic buckeye trucks and I bought one set for
                                                                                one of my cranes, but they are not the same as keeping the model completely
                                                                                as the original.
                                                                                >   Wobbly913
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Imp Ster <iimpster@...> wrote:
                                                                                >   hi Don, tnx for the shout-out - nothing going on here but us collectors.
                                                                                > not being an E-bay maven as the rest of yiz, nevertheless about once a
                                                                                > year i manage to find some dessicated example of desirable vintage die-
                                                                                > cast.
                                                                                > however, i'm serious about establishing some sort of HO conservatory -
                                                                                > reproduction facility.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > if that regrettable ancestral real estate sale goes though, i plan to
                                                                                > invest whatever ill-gotten gains i may receive, into a few basic
                                                                                > projects of such things as all-metal: flats, Overtons, olde-tyme boxes
                                                                                > and reefers ( btw, anybody have any idea why MDC in the terminal throes
                                                                                > of dissolution quit producing their working boxcar doors in favor of
                                                                                > the lame one-piece castings?? ... never mind, i really dont want to
                                                                                > know... just another lucrative modeling opp for ME!)
                                                                                > ...as well as zinc replacements for the unfortunate plastic tender
                                                                                > bodies, boilers, pilots, cabs, trailing trucks, etc etc.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > then, there is my pet project of designing a kit for a tender-mounted
                                                                                > heavy fly-wheel device to re-power stock Mantua Pacifics, Mikes,
                                                                                > Hudsons etc.
                                                                                > possibly based on a mid-era Athearn twin-fly motor (with extra fly-
                                                                                > wheels - ) with knuckle-shaft or flexible-spring drive-line thru the
                                                                                > cab to the main driver set.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > btw, anyone having experience in die-cast and lost-wax production is
                                                                                > heartily welcome to rattle my cage.
                                                                                > this project will depend a great deal on intel from the artists
                                                                                > formerly known as North American Railroad Hobby Production Executives.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > (i'd like to think i could get this project going before they all "fade
                                                                                > away"!)
                                                                                >
                                                                                > cheers
                                                                                >
                                                                                > ...
                                                                                >
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                                                                                >
                                                                                >
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                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 720 From: Wobbly913 Date: 12/8/2005
                                                                                Subject: Re: the "sprung" zinc Buckeye vs. the Delrin
                                                                                Imp
                                                                                I do not really "know" that Athearn made the trucks, but they supplied so many models in those days with cast parts of varying shapes and sizes that I just presumed that they made the trucks along with everything else. If another company made the trucks then perhaps that explains why the majority of the defective parts are merely broken, but the trucks are simply crumbling bits and pieces. I have a brand new in the box pair of Athearn metal, not sprung, coupler mounted passenger car trucks that I thought, due to packaging, were made by Athearn but they could easily be just "priivate label" trucks made by another firm.
                                                                                In any event the idea of brand new copies of the buckeye trucks, among other posibilities is of interest. 
                                                                                 
                                                                                Wobbly913
                                                                                Imp Ster <iimpster@...> wrote:
                                                                                curious - i, too, have an odd-man-out equalised Buckeye in zinc.
                                                                                itv was found along with a solid-frame cast Buckeye on soe refugee
                                                                                Athearn styrene Pullman.
                                                                                so the sprung Bucks were made by Athearn, ya say? - interesting - i had
                                                                                long assumed it was a Central Valley product.

                                                                                i gave up finding another edition long ago, so now regretfully, i
                                                                                cannot offer the truck in trade as it has found a home as the 'heavy' 6-
                                                                                whl truck under the Athearn rotary snowplow.

                                                                                btw Wobbly913, rest assured that these 6-whl trucks in particular are
                                                                                on my short-list of patterns to pirate.
                                                                                recently i've seen the costly greenway lost-wax brass versions that
                                                                                were not half so well-made, suffering from under-sized springs and
                                                                                inferior side-frame design.

                                                                                (ah'm playing Scrooge this time around... harrumph.)

                                                                                ...





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                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 721 From: don.dellmann Date: 12/8/2005
                                                                                Subject: Re: It could be...
                                                                                It's road number 648900. It IS a "round roof", not the AAR one. There's a
                                                                                photo in the "Athearn" sub album in my album on the groups home page. What
                                                                                is also curious about it is it had plastic doors rather than the original
                                                                                metal. I got it assembled from Larkspur Lines.

                                                                                Every Menzies or Baker one I've seen had the metal doors and the circle
                                                                                keystone scheme.

                                                                                Don

                                                                                don.dellmann@...
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                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                From: erieberk <erieberk@...>
                                                                                To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 6:34 AM
                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] Re: It could be...


                                                                                > Don, If your 50' PRR auto Box has either #74405 or #76233 as the
                                                                                > roadnumber, it is most probable that you have a Park Varieties car;
                                                                                > they issued these two numbers. Athearn did not issue an AAR roof
                                                                                > 50' auto car in the PRR roadname, only round roof in the 50' PRR
                                                                                > auto. I'll dig into my collection to physically view the P.V. PRR
                                                                                > 50' autos to check if the Pennsy shadow keystone was used as the logo
                                                                                > in the lettering and will let you know for sure. Might take a little
                                                                                > time, the collection takes up half the attic, but will get to it.
                                                                                > I'm curious now, myself. Ray
                                                                                > \
                                                                                > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...>
                                                                                > wrote:
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                > > From: erieberk <erieberk@w...>
                                                                                > > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                > > Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 3:18 PM
                                                                                > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: It could be...
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > > Don, Yes, you are correct in assuming that these cars produced by
                                                                                > > > D.J. Baker were put out right after G.F. Menzies, although having
                                                                                > a
                                                                                > > > zip code has nothing to do with dating them. Baker marketed these
                                                                                > > > cars in the mid-'80's. Not sure off the top of my head exactly
                                                                                > when,
                                                                                > > > but I could dig it out if needed. It was after 1984 as Menzies
                                                                                > was
                                                                                > > > still being listed in the Walther's catalog as of that year.
                                                                                > > > Incidentally (or should I say, curiously), G.F. Menzies labels
                                                                                > have
                                                                                > > > the same address -- P.O. Box 153, Silverton, Oregon 97381. I
                                                                                > haven't
                                                                                > > > looked at my Baker collection recently, but have to assume you're
                                                                                > > > correct with their address as well. Another outfit was also
                                                                                > > > reproducing Athearn metal cars in the late '70's -- early '80's,
                                                                                > > > with roadnames other than what any of these other manufacturers
                                                                                > > > used. These were produced by Park Varieties. Some (but not all)
                                                                                > of
                                                                                > > > these cars are listed in the Greenberg's Athearn Guide. Best
                                                                                > > > Regards, Ray W.
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > I wonder if "park" is the source for my 50' Auto box in the
                                                                                > Pennsy "Shadow
                                                                                > > Keystone" theme?
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > Don
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > don.dellmann@p...
                                                                                > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                > > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                > > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                > > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                > > co-moderator: SCENERY@Y...
                                                                                > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                ------
                                                                                > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
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                                                                                >
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                                                                                >
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 722 From: don.dellmann Date: 12/8/2005
                                                                                Subject: Re: the "sprung" zinc Buckeye vs. the Delrin
                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                From: Imp Ster <iimpster@...>
                                                                                To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 12:11 PM
                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] the "sprung" zinc Buckeye vs. the Delrin


                                                                                > curious - i, too, have an odd-man-out equalised Buckeye in zinc.
                                                                                > itv was found along with a solid-frame cast Buckeye on soe refugee
                                                                                > Athearn styrene Pullman.
                                                                                > so the sprung Bucks were made by Athearn, ya say? - interesting - i had
                                                                                > long assumed it was a Central Valley product.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > i gave up finding another edition long ago, so now regretfully, i
                                                                                > cannot offer the truck in trade as it has found a home as the 'heavy' 6-
                                                                                > whl truck under the Athearn rotary snowplow.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > btw Wobbly913, rest assured that these 6-whl trucks in particular are
                                                                                > on my short-list of patterns to pirate.
                                                                                > recently i've seen the costly greenway lost-wax brass versions that
                                                                                > were not half so well-made, suffering from under-sized springs and
                                                                                > inferior side-frame design.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > (ah'm playing Scrooge this time around... harrumph.)

                                                                                The first pair I got actually came in an Athearn package with proper
                                                                                labeling indicating it was the original box. They replaced a pair of
                                                                                Kemtron/Precision Scale solid cast brass ones I bought new for the crane.
                                                                                (Those trucks BTW are now owned by another member of this group <G>).

                                                                                Don

                                                                                don.dellmann@...
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                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 723 From: Rick Jones Date: 12/8/2005
                                                                                Subject: Re: the "sprung" zinc Buckeye vs. the Delrin
                                                                                Imp Ster wrote:
                                                                                > curious - i, too, have an odd-man-out equalised Buckeye in zinc.
                                                                                > itv was found along with a solid-frame cast Buckeye on soe refugee
                                                                                > Athearn styrene Pullman.
                                                                                > so the sprung Bucks were made by Athearn, ya say? - interesting - i had
                                                                                > long assumed it was a Central Valley product.

                                                                                My Akane cab forward, which was made around 1960 or so, has sprung
                                                                                Buckeyes on the tender. I've had that model since 1970 or '71. Rigid
                                                                                Buckeyes just seem disappointing after that.

                                                                                --

                                                                                Rick Jones
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 724 From: erieberk Date: 12/9/2005
                                                                                Subject: Re: It could be...
                                                                                Don, We can rule out Park Varieties; they made only AAR roof cars.
                                                                                We can also rule out Athearn as they did not produce this roadnumber
                                                                                in a 50' round roof PRR auto. You're right about Menzies and Baker
                                                                                using metal doors, but I've seen guys substituting plastic doors when
                                                                                they lost one or both metal doors. I'll recheck my collection for
                                                                                Baker -- it could still be them, although I know what you mean about
                                                                                them producing the PRR keystone logo in the white circle (same as
                                                                                Athearn). We know it wasn't Globe; they didn't produce any 50' cars
                                                                                (and no round roofs). By the way, if you should run across any
                                                                                Athearn metal 50' round roof PRR auto cars, they made #'s 59450,
                                                                                59456, 59459, 59467, 59489 and 59499 in that roadname. Can't say I'm
                                                                                familiar with Larkspur Lines. I'll what I can come up with, if
                                                                                anything. Ray
                                                                                \
                                                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...>
                                                                                wrote:
                                                                                >
                                                                                > It's road number 648900. It IS a "round roof", not the AAR one.
                                                                                There's a
                                                                                > photo in the "Athearn" sub album in my album on the groups home
                                                                                page. What
                                                                                > is also curious about it is it had plastic doors rather than the
                                                                                original
                                                                                > metal. I got it assembled from Larkspur Lines.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Every Menzies or Baker one I've seen had the metal doors and the
                                                                                circle
                                                                                > keystone scheme.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Don
                                                                                >
                                                                                > don.dellmann@p...
                                                                                > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                > co-moderator: SCENERY@Y...
                                                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                > From: erieberk <erieberk@w...>
                                                                                > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                > Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 6:34 AM
                                                                                > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: It could be...
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > > Don, If your 50' PRR auto Box has either #74405 or #76233 as the
                                                                                > > roadnumber, it is most probable that you have a Park Varieties
                                                                                car;
                                                                                > > they issued these two numbers. Athearn did not issue an AAR roof
                                                                                > > 50' auto car in the PRR roadname, only round roof in the 50' PRR
                                                                                > > auto. I'll dig into my collection to physically view the P.V. PRR
                                                                                > > 50' autos to check if the Pennsy shadow keystone was used as the
                                                                                logo
                                                                                > > in the lettering and will let you know for sure. Might take a
                                                                                little
                                                                                > > time, the collection takes up half the attic, but will get to it.
                                                                                > > I'm curious now, myself. Ray
                                                                                > > \
                                                                                > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "don.dellmann"
                                                                                <don.dellmann@p...>
                                                                                > > wrote:
                                                                                > > >
                                                                                > > >
                                                                                > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                > > > From: erieberk <erieberk@w...>
                                                                                > > > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 3:18 PM
                                                                                > > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: It could be...
                                                                                > > >
                                                                                > > >
                                                                                > > > > Don, Yes, you are correct in assuming that these cars
                                                                                produced by
                                                                                > > > > D.J. Baker were put out right after G.F. Menzies, although
                                                                                having
                                                                                > > a
                                                                                > > > > zip code has nothing to do with dating them. Baker marketed
                                                                                these
                                                                                > > > > cars in the mid-'80's. Not sure off the top of my head
                                                                                exactly
                                                                                > > when,
                                                                                > > > > but I could dig it out if needed. It was after 1984 as
                                                                                Menzies
                                                                                > > was
                                                                                > > > > still being listed in the Walther's catalog as of that year.
                                                                                > > > > Incidentally (or should I say, curiously), G.F. Menzies
                                                                                labels
                                                                                > > have
                                                                                > > > > the same address -- P.O. Box 153, Silverton, Oregon 97381. I
                                                                                > > haven't
                                                                                > > > > looked at my Baker collection recently, but have to assume
                                                                                you're
                                                                                > > > > correct with their address as well. Another outfit was also
                                                                                > > > > reproducing Athearn metal cars in the late '70's --
                                                                                early '80's,
                                                                                > > > > with roadnames other than what any of these other
                                                                                manufacturers
                                                                                > > > > used. These were produced by Park Varieties. Some (but not
                                                                                all)
                                                                                > > of
                                                                                > > > > these cars are listed in the Greenberg's Athearn Guide. Best
                                                                                > > > > Regards, Ray W.
                                                                                > > >
                                                                                > > > I wonder if "park" is the source for my 50' Auto box in the
                                                                                > > Pennsy "Shadow
                                                                                > > > Keystone" theme?
                                                                                > > >
                                                                                > > > Don
                                                                                > > >
                                                                                > > > don.dellmann@p...
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                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 725 From: don.dellmann Date: 12/9/2005
                                                                                Subject: Re: It could be...
                                                                                I have 59450, got it from Roger A on this list in trade for a HObbyline
                                                                                caboose. (There's a photo in my album, in the Athearn sub album)

                                                                                Larkspur is a Canadian dealer, used to advertise quite regularly in MR,
                                                                                (maybe still does) although I got it from them through eBay.

                                                                                Don

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                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                From: erieberk <erieberk@...>
                                                                                To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 7:34 AM
                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] Re: It could be...


                                                                                > Don, We can rule out Park Varieties; they made only AAR roof cars.
                                                                                > We can also rule out Athearn as they did not produce this roadnumber
                                                                                > in a 50' round roof PRR auto. You're right about Menzies and Baker
                                                                                > using metal doors, but I've seen guys substituting plastic doors when
                                                                                > they lost one or both metal doors. I'll recheck my collection for
                                                                                > Baker -- it could still be them, although I know what you mean about
                                                                                > them producing the PRR keystone logo in the white circle (same as
                                                                                > Athearn). We know it wasn't Globe; they didn't produce any 50' cars
                                                                                > (and no round roofs). By the way, if you should run across any
                                                                                > Athearn metal 50' round roof PRR auto cars, they made #'s 59450,
                                                                                > 59456, 59459, 59467, 59489 and 59499 in that roadname. Can't say I'm
                                                                                > familiar with Larkspur Lines. I'll what I can come up with, if
                                                                                > anything. Ray
                                                                                > \
                                                                                > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...>
                                                                                > wrote:
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > It's road number 648900. It IS a "round roof", not the AAR one.
                                                                                > There's a
                                                                                > > photo in the "Athearn" sub album in my album on the groups home
                                                                                > page. What
                                                                                > > is also curious about it is it had plastic doors rather than the
                                                                                > original
                                                                                > > metal. I got it assembled from Larkspur Lines.
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > Every Menzies or Baker one I've seen had the metal doors and the
                                                                                > circle
                                                                                > > keystone scheme.
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > Don
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > don.dellmann@p...
                                                                                > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                > > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                > > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                > > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                > > co-moderator: SCENERY@Y...
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                                                                                > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                > > From: erieberk <erieberk@w...>
                                                                                > > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                > > Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 6:34 AM
                                                                                > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: It could be...
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > > Don, If your 50' PRR auto Box has either #74405 or #76233 as the
                                                                                > > > roadnumber, it is most probable that you have a Park Varieties
                                                                                > car;
                                                                                > > > they issued these two numbers. Athearn did not issue an AAR roof
                                                                                > > > 50' auto car in the PRR roadname, only round roof in the 50' PRR
                                                                                > > > auto. I'll dig into my collection to physically view the P.V. PRR
                                                                                > > > 50' autos to check if the Pennsy shadow keystone was used as the
                                                                                > logo
                                                                                > > > in the lettering and will let you know for sure. Might take a
                                                                                > little
                                                                                > > > time, the collection takes up half the attic, but will get to it.
                                                                                > > > I'm curious now, myself. Ray
                                                                                > > > \
                                                                                > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "don.dellmann"
                                                                                > <don.dellmann@p...>
                                                                                > > > wrote:
                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                > > > > From: erieberk <erieberk@w...>
                                                                                > > > > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 3:18 PM
                                                                                > > > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: It could be...
                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                > > > > > Don, Yes, you are correct in assuming that these cars
                                                                                > produced by
                                                                                > > > > > D.J. Baker were put out right after G.F. Menzies, although
                                                                                > having
                                                                                > > > a
                                                                                > > > > > zip code has nothing to do with dating them. Baker marketed
                                                                                > these
                                                                                > > > > > cars in the mid-'80's. Not sure off the top of my head
                                                                                > exactly
                                                                                > > > when,
                                                                                > > > > > but I could dig it out if needed. It was after 1984 as
                                                                                > Menzies
                                                                                > > > was
                                                                                > > > > > still being listed in the Walther's catalog as of that year.
                                                                                > > > > > Incidentally (or should I say, curiously), G.F. Menzies
                                                                                > labels
                                                                                > > > have
                                                                                > > > > > the same address -- P.O. Box 153, Silverton, Oregon 97381. I
                                                                                > > > haven't
                                                                                > > > > > looked at my Baker collection recently, but have to assume
                                                                                > you're
                                                                                > > > > > correct with their address as well. Another outfit was also
                                                                                > > > > > reproducing Athearn metal cars in the late '70's --
                                                                                > early '80's,
                                                                                > > > > > with roadnames other than what any of these other
                                                                                > manufacturers
                                                                                > > > > > used. These were produced by Park Varieties. Some (but not
                                                                                > all)
                                                                                > > > of
                                                                                > > > > > these cars are listed in the Greenberg's Athearn Guide. Best
                                                                                > > > > > Regards, Ray W.
                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                > > > > I wonder if "park" is the source for my 50' Auto box in the
                                                                                > > > Pennsy "Shadow
                                                                                > > > > Keystone" theme?
                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                > > > > Don
                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                > > > > don.dellmann@p...
                                                                                > > > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                > > > > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                > > > > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
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                                                                                > > > >
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                                                                                > > >
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                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 726 From: Bob B Date: 12/11/2005
                                                                                Subject: Lionel HO Scale U18B?
                                                                                A friend of mine recently got on eBay a Lionel HO scale U18B and is
                                                                                curious as to its origins.

                                                                                The info:

                                                                                - It is painted in CP Rail's Action Red with the multimark; since CP
                                                                                did not have this model, could this be a custom paint job or just a
                                                                                fantasy one by Lionel?

                                                                                - The plastic fuel tank is marked "Lionel Mt. Clemens Mich Molded in
                                                                                Canada" - What's the story on this, made in Canada?

                                                                                - The motor is marked "General Electric Made U.S.A." Did GE supply
                                                                                both the prototype and model motors?

                                                                                - The drivetrain is interesting - The shaft from the motor goes into
                                                                                a tower in the front of each truck. Then there is a white colored
                                                                                (plastic/nylon?) driveshaft going in the opposite direction to a lower
                                                                                tower on the other wheels in the truck.

                                                                                We were at our club's Sunday morning breakfast at a local restaurant,
                                                                                so I set up the model on a plastic box on the trunk of my friend's car
                                                                                and took a few photos with my pocket digital camera. You can see the
                                                                                images here: http://photobucket.com/albums/v409/railfan/U18B/

                                                                                Not the greatest way to take photos, as it was starting to rain! That
                                                                                accounts for the water on the model. My friend has the handrails, cab
                                                                                glass and numberboards at home.

                                                                                The model has Kadee couplers, obviously added later. The area on the
                                                                                cab below the windows looks rough, as if it was repainted or
                                                                                renumbered. But the rear numberboards have the same number.

                                                                                So can anyone shed some light on the history of this model? My friend
                                                                                is interested in Maine Central, and bought it to repaint in their
                                                                                colors as there aren't many (or any) U18Bs available.

                                                                                Thanks!

                                                                                Bob Boudreau
                                                                                Canada
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 727 From: AL Date: 12/11/2005
                                                                                Subject: Lionel HO Scale U18B?
                                                                                Nice find.

                                                                                I have a few of the early to mid 70's Lionel (including one U18) in my
                                                                                collection .

                                                                                Definately the same drives ( and yes, GE motors, which was a feature
                                                                                prominent in Lionel advertising of the time).
                                                                                Do be very careful of the sideframes when servicing, as the small tabs that
                                                                                snap those onto the truck castings,are very brittle and fragile - I;ve had
                                                                                new old stock, mint in the box loco with broken tabs .

                                                                                according to the Lionel HO volume 2 guide..which, as I pull it out,
                                                                                incidently has this model on the cover :-) .... the U18B was the last Lionel
                                                                                Produced (pre Hong Kong production) model in thier attempt to reenter the HO
                                                                                market.
                                                                                it was available only in Soo Line ( which I have),Rio grande and the CP
                                                                                Rail version ( also an undecorated shell is listed, not sure that exists,
                                                                                although I have a grey undecorated GP30 dummy,marked Lionel that is not
                                                                                listed in the Greenberg's guide at all ) .

                                                                                they list the Dp rail 5521 as found in two shades of red and 'considered
                                                                                rare in either shade', with book values when published shown as 40-85.00.

                                                                                A nice loco, and the ones I have are nice runners, too witht he GE motor
                                                                                and diecast frames providing adequate weight.

                                                                                ~ AL



                                                                                > A friend of mine recently got on eBay a Lionel HO scale U18B and is
                                                                                > curious as to its origins.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > The info:
                                                                                >
                                                                                > - It is painted in CP Rail's Action Red with the multimark; since CP
                                                                                > did not have this model, could this be a custom paint job or just a
                                                                                > fantasy one by Lionel?
                                                                                >
                                                                                > - The plastic fuel tank is marked "Lionel Mt. Clemens Mich Molded in
                                                                                > Canada" - What's the story on this, made in Canada?
                                                                                >
                                                                                > - The motor is marked "General Electric Made U.S.A." Did GE supply
                                                                                > both the prototype and model motors?
                                                                                >
                                                                                > - The drivetrain is interesting - The shaft from the motor goes into
                                                                                > a tower in the front of each truck. Then there is a white colored
                                                                                > (plastic/nylon?) driveshaft going in the opposite direction to a lower
                                                                                > tower on the other wheels in the truck.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > We were at our club's Sunday morning breakfast at a local restaurant,
                                                                                > so I set up the model on a plastic box on the trunk of my friend's car
                                                                                > and took a few photos with my pocket digital camera. You can see the
                                                                                > images here: http://photobucket.com/albums/v409/railfan/U18B/
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Not the greatest way to take photos, as it was starting to rain! That
                                                                                > accounts for the water on the model. My friend has the handrails, cab
                                                                                > glass and numberboards at home.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > The model has Kadee couplers, obviously added later. The area on the
                                                                                > cab below the windows looks rough, as if it was repainted or
                                                                                > renumbered. But the rear numberboards have the same number.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > So can anyone shed some light on the history of this model? My friend
                                                                                > is interested in Maine Central, and bought it to repaint in their
                                                                                > colors as there aren't many (or any) U18Bs available.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Thanks!
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Bob Boudreau
                                                                                > Canada
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                > ________________________________________________________________________
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                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > --
                                                                                > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                                                                > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                                                                > Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.13/197 - Release Date: 12/9/2005
                                                                                >
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 728 From: don.dellmann Date: 12/11/2005
                                                                                Subject: Re: Lionel HO Scale U18B?
                                                                                The GP-30 became the Bachman model. The same die was also used to make
                                                                                shells for Front Range.

                                                                                Don

                                                                                don.dellmann@...
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                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                From: AL <Sailordoode@...>
                                                                                To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 12:57 PM
                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] Lionel HO Scale U18B?


                                                                                > Nice find.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > I have a few of the early to mid 70's Lionel (including one U18) in my
                                                                                > collection .
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Definately the same drives ( and yes, GE motors, which was a feature
                                                                                > prominent in Lionel advertising of the time).
                                                                                > Do be very careful of the sideframes when servicing, as the small tabs
                                                                                that
                                                                                > snap those onto the truck castings,are very brittle and fragile - I;ve had
                                                                                > new old stock, mint in the box loco with broken tabs .
                                                                                >
                                                                                > according to the Lionel HO volume 2 guide..which, as I pull it out,
                                                                                > incidently has this model on the cover :-) .... the U18B was the last
                                                                                Lionel
                                                                                > Produced (pre Hong Kong production) model in thier attempt to reenter the
                                                                                HO
                                                                                > market.
                                                                                > it was available only in Soo Line ( which I have),Rio grande and the CP
                                                                                > Rail version ( also an undecorated shell is listed, not sure that exists,
                                                                                > although I have a grey undecorated GP30 dummy,marked Lionel that is not
                                                                                > listed in the Greenberg's guide at all ) .
                                                                                >
                                                                                > they list the Dp rail 5521 as found in two shades of red and 'considered
                                                                                > rare in either shade', with book values when published shown as 40-85.00.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > A nice loco, and the ones I have are nice runners, too witht he GE motor
                                                                                > and diecast frames providing adequate weight.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > ~ AL
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > > A friend of mine recently got on eBay a Lionel HO scale U18B and is
                                                                                > > curious as to its origins.
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > The info:
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > - It is painted in CP Rail's Action Red with the multimark; since CP
                                                                                > > did not have this model, could this be a custom paint job or just a
                                                                                > > fantasy one by Lionel?
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > - The plastic fuel tank is marked "Lionel Mt. Clemens Mich Molded in
                                                                                > > Canada" - What's the story on this, made in Canada?
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > - The motor is marked "General Electric Made U.S.A." Did GE supply
                                                                                > > both the prototype and model motors?
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > - The drivetrain is interesting - The shaft from the motor goes into
                                                                                > > a tower in the front of each truck. Then there is a white colored
                                                                                > > (plastic/nylon?) driveshaft going in the opposite direction to a lower
                                                                                > > tower on the other wheels in the truck.
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > We were at our club's Sunday morning breakfast at a local restaurant,
                                                                                > > so I set up the model on a plastic box on the trunk of my friend's car
                                                                                > > and took a few photos with my pocket digital camera. You can see the
                                                                                > > images here: http://photobucket.com/albums/v409/railfan/U18B/
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > Not the greatest way to take photos, as it was starting to rain! That
                                                                                > > accounts for the water on the model. My friend has the handrails, cab
                                                                                > > glass and numberboards at home.
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > The model has Kadee couplers, obviously added later. The area on the
                                                                                > > cab below the windows looks rough, as if it was repainted or
                                                                                > > renumbered. But the rear numberboards have the same number.
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > So can anyone shed some light on the history of this model? My friend
                                                                                > > is interested in Maine Central, and bought it to repaint in their
                                                                                > > colors as there aren't many (or any) U18Bs available.
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > Thanks!
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > Bob Boudreau
                                                                                > > Canada
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                > > ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > --
                                                                                > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                                                                > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                                                                > > Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.13/197 - Release Date:
                                                                                12/9/2005
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
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                                                                                >
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                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 729 From: oljoeoh Date: 12/13/2005
                                                                                Subject: Mantua 0-4-0 w/slope back tender
                                                                                Had the misfortune of breaking the fiber drawbar
                                                                                used to join the loco and tender. Would like to
                                                                                replace the drawbar if possible. Anybody have a
                                                                                spare to sell me or can anyone suggest a source for
                                                                                the item.
                                                                                Added info:
                                                                                item is from the 50's
                                                                                has diecast tender
                                                                                engine is actually an 0-6-0 but I believe the
                                                                                same drawbar was used for both locos
                                                                                Regards,
                                                                                Joe O'Loughlin
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 730 From: Imp Ster Date: 12/13/2005
                                                                                Subject: Mantua drawbar replacement
                                                                                greets Joe - you should be able to substitute the plastic Kemtron
                                                                                drawbars if you enlarge the 2nd hole a bit.

                                                                                if that isnt practical, i do have a vintage fiber drawbar which could
                                                                                be modified to suit.
                                                                                ( its nothing special, not even shaped like the Mantua item, just a
                                                                                slab of fiber with 2 holes.. )
                                                                                so if you want it, it's yours for postage - but check your local HO
                                                                                emporium first, they may have something similar lurking about.

                                                                                regards

                                                                                ...
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 731 From: AL Date: 12/13/2005
                                                                                Subject: Re: Digest Number 213
                                                                                Not sure of a source for the original fibre drawbars, but you can get
                                                                                plastic Kemtron ( form original kemtron molds), from Precision Scale Co .
                                                                                I got a few through Walthers, but I belive it's a special order ( ie: slow)

                                                                                ~ AL

                                                                                > Message: 1
                                                                                > Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 18:02:48 -0000
                                                                                > From: "oljoeoh" <oljoe@...>
                                                                                > Subject: Mantua 0-4-0 w/slope back tender
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Had the misfortune of breaking the fiber drawbar
                                                                                > used to join the loco and tender. Would like to
                                                                                > replace the drawbar if possible. Anybody have a
                                                                                > spare to sell me or can anyone suggest a source for
                                                                                > the item.
                                                                                > Added info:
                                                                                > item is from the 50's
                                                                                > has diecast tender
                                                                                > engine is actually an 0-6-0 but I believe the
                                                                                > same drawbar was used for both locos
                                                                                > Regards,
                                                                                > Joe O'Loughlin
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 732 From: don.dellmann Date: 12/13/2005
                                                                                Subject: Re: Mantua 0-4-0 w/slope back tender
                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                From: oljoeoh <oljoe@...>
                                                                                To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 12:02 PM
                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua 0-4-0 w/slope back tender


                                                                                > Had the misfortune of breaking the fiber drawbar
                                                                                > used to join the loco and tender. Would like to
                                                                                > replace the drawbar if possible. Anybody have a
                                                                                > spare to sell me or can anyone suggest a source for
                                                                                > the item.
                                                                                > Added info:
                                                                                > item is from the 50's
                                                                                > has diecast tender
                                                                                > engine is actually an 0-6-0 but I believe the
                                                                                > same drawbar was used for both locos
                                                                                > Regards,
                                                                                > Joe O'Loughlin

                                                                                It'd be easy enough to fabricate a new one out of about .060 or .080
                                                                                styrene, drill a couple holes and cat or file to shape. This is not a
                                                                                "critical" part.

                                                                                Don

                                                                                don.dellmann@...
                                                                                http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
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                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 733 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 12/13/2005
                                                                                Subject: trains
                                                                                Hi :        I buy this 4-6-2 Mantua UP lt Pacific   ,  Box Car , Marx A.T.S.F. I buy  $15.00 !     Ray Lorts         PS.  I had a Stroke


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                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 734 From: Rudolf de Haas Date: 12/13/2005
                                                                                Subject: (Mantua) drawbar replacement
                                                                                Hi Joe,
                                                                                Maybe you can look at the site of Hobbytown of Boston:
                                                                                http://bearlocomo.zoovy.com/product/P2077
                                                                                or this one:
                                                                                http://bearlocomo.zoovy.com/product/OP0150
                                                                                I bought them myself to replace old or missing drawbars.
                                                                                (and they're cheap too...)
                                                                                Regards, Rudolf


                                                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "oljoeoh" <oljoe@l...> wrote:
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Had the misfortune of breaking the fiber drawbar
                                                                                > used to join the loco and tender. Would like to
                                                                                > replace the drawbar if possible. Anybody have a
                                                                                > spare to sell me or can anyone suggest a source for
                                                                                > the item.
                                                                                > Added info:
                                                                                > item is from the 50's
                                                                                > has diecast tender
                                                                                > engine is actually an 0-6-0 but I believe the
                                                                                > same drawbar was used for both locos
                                                                                > Regards,
                                                                                > Joe O'Loughlin
                                                                                >
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 735 From: oljoe@landolls.com Date: 12/14/2005
                                                                                Subject: Re: (Mantua) drawbar replacement
                                                                                Thank you for the lead....
                                                                                also see one on e***
                                                                                Also tried Bowser - the part # I have gives up a different
                                                                                item - it is ACTUALLY a 0-80 screw with a head that is
                                                                                supposed to match the screw. It "does" work but not nearly
                                                                                as well as the real thing from Mantua.
                                                                                Joe O'Loughlin

                                                                                Rudolf de Haas wrote:
                                                                                > Hi Joe,
                                                                                > Maybe you can look at the site of Hobbytown of Boston:
                                                                                > http://bearlocomo.zoovy.com/product/P2077
                                                                                > or this one:
                                                                                > http://bearlocomo.zoovy.com/product/OP0150
                                                                                > I bought them myself to replace old or missing drawbars.
                                                                                > (and they're cheap too...)
                                                                                > Regards, Rudolf
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "oljoeoh" <oljoe@l...> wrote:
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > Had the misfortune of breaking the fiber drawbar
                                                                                > > used to join the loco and tender. Would like to
                                                                                > > replace the drawbar if possible. Anybody have a
                                                                                > > spare to sell me or can anyone suggest a source for
                                                                                > > the item.
                                                                                > > Added info:
                                                                                > > item is from the 50's
                                                                                > > has diecast tender
                                                                                > > engine is actually an 0-6-0 but I believe the
                                                                                > > same drawbar was used for both locos
                                                                                > > Regards,
                                                                                > > Joe O'Loughlin
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                                >
                                                                                > * Visit your group "vintageHO
                                                                                > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO>" on the web.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                > <mailto:vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                                                                                >
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                                                                                > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                >
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 736 From: Bill Daley Date: 12/14/2005
                                                                                Subject: Re: Mantua 0-4-0 w/slope back tender


                                                                                oljoeoh <oljoe@...> wrote:
                                                                                Had the misfortune of breaking the fiber drawbar
                                                                                used to join the loco and tender. (etc)
                                                                                 
                                                                                Joe,
                                                                                 
                                                                                Best bet to replace it is to fabricate one from brass, using plastic/nylon screws and some of Mr. Kadee's red or gray washers for electrical insulation. Or look at imported brass steamers for how they use a brass drawbar to eliminate the pick-up wire and allow easy separation of loco and tender. This method will require some minimal skills and some workbench time. It will even work for DCC locos. 
                                                                                 
                                                                                BillD 


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                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 737 From: Imp Ster Date: 12/14/2005
                                                                                Subject: the $15 Mantua Pacific, and other tales
                                                                                Ray, thats a great deal!
                                                                                sorry to hear about your stroke - take it easy and do some arm-chair
                                                                                railroading for a bit.
                                                                                just let us know if you need anything done on motive or rolling stock
                                                                                until you get back on your feet.

                                                                                i found a similar Mantua UP Pacific at a local antiques emporium, and
                                                                                ended up working out about $200 (in remodeling time exchanged,
                                                                                gasoline - 20 miles each way for several days etc etc) for the item.

                                                                                yes, it was a bite out of the ol wallet, but whattya do.
                                                                                i had to have the engine, plus there was the usual large box of
                                                                                assorted 'HO junque' included.

                                                                                previously i have traded work for a mint example of the Mantua Hudson.
                                                                                (dont ask how much time that took... erm.)
                                                                                however, it evens out at times... i found a nearly-new pair of my
                                                                                beloved and long-sought Mantua 2-6-2 Prairies for only $35 ea, at a
                                                                                local train show.

                                                                                long-suffering readers will recall my vintage rants about converting
                                                                                the Prairies to resemble the Black Hills Central's tourist tramp
                                                                                steamers.
                                                                                so now i have my pilot models and have begun preliminary modofication.
                                                                                (these are planned as demos for the eventual mass production.)

                                                                                pix post as things progress.
                                                                                see postcard JPGs of the proto engines here:

                                                                                http://www.1880train.com/

                                                                                cheers

                                                                                ...
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 738 From: Dave Slater Date: 12/14/2005
                                                                                Subject: Re: the $15 Mantua Pacific, and other tales
                                                                                Imp,
                                                                                When we were last down at Sturgis in 1997 they were using an old Saddle Tank engine on the Hill City Keystone run. Has that one been retired and something better added???? Do I need to make another road trip South???
                                                                                Dave S.
                                                                                On the Canadian Prairies...

                                                                                Imp Ster wrote:

                                                                                 Ray, thats a great deal!
                                                                                sorry to hear about your stroke - take it easy and do some arm-chair
                                                                                railroading for a bit.
                                                                                just let us know if you need anything done on motive or rolling stock
                                                                                until you get back on your feet.

                                                                                i found a similar Mantua UP Pacific at a local antiques emporium, and
                                                                                ended up working out about $200 (in remodeling time exchanged,
                                                                                gasoline - 20 miles each way for several days etc etc) for the item.

                                                                                yes, it was a bite out of the ol wallet, but whattya do.
                                                                                i had to have the engine, plus there was the usual large box of
                                                                                assorted 'HO junque' included.

                                                                                previously i have traded work for a mint example of the Mantua Hudson.
                                                                                (dont ask how much time that took... erm.)
                                                                                however,  it evens out at times... i found a nearly-new pair of my
                                                                                beloved and long-sought Mantua 2-6-2 Prairies for only $35 ea, at a
                                                                                local train show.

                                                                                long-suffering readers will recall my vintage rants about converting
                                                                                the Prairies to resemble the Black Hills Central's tourist tramp
                                                                                steamers.
                                                                                so now i have my pilot models and have begun preliminary modofication.
                                                                                (these are planned as demos for the eventual mass production.)

                                                                                pix post as things progress.
                                                                                see postcard JPGs of the proto engines here:

                                                                                http://www.1880train.com/

                                                                                cheers

                                                                                ...
                                                                                 
                                                                                 


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                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 739 From: Imp Ster Date: 12/14/2005
                                                                                Subject: The Black Hills '1880' Saddle-Tanker, and It's Friends
                                                                                yes, the saddle tanker is still there and is the mainstay of operations.
                                                                                meanwhile, ol # 7 was shipped south to star in a movie of some sort,
                                                                                but should be returned by spring 2006 for summer work as usual.
                                                                                the big deal is, they have been running the fully-restored Weyerhauser
                                                                                Mallet for some time now.
                                                                                they all run on recycled motor oil as fuel, unpon which incendiary
                                                                                caution hangs a tale.

                                                                                (btw, i am in desperate need of a Mantua logger chassis to blueprint...
                                                                                side-tank model prefered, but will grudgingly acept the tender
                                                                                version.... anybody got a basket case they can part with? ...
                                                                                orrrr....?? heheheh )

                                                                                i was fortunate enough to dead-head a ride on the tender deck of #7 on
                                                                                it's first test ride up the hills after a complete boiler rebuild some
                                                                                years ago.
                                                                                as we headed into the first grade, there was a slightly worrying
                                                                                incident involving the firebox over-heating and causing the fuel-oil to
                                                                                detonate explosively, which resultant super-draft of pure inferno
                                                                                exponentialy increased the steaming of the boiler - the pops went off
                                                                                as i'm sure they had never dreamed of doing, the steam pressure
                                                                                indicator needle started twitching and surging, the fireman shut off
                                                                                the oil feed but the monster draft kept sucking more oil into the box,
                                                                                the continuous oil detonations continued to massively rattle the fire-
                                                                                door, the cab and all of our teeth, but the day was saved by the
                                                                                fireman hoving at the firebox with shovels full of sand.

                                                                                needless to say, the trip back down the mountain was a lot less notable
                                                                                for hubris, and the more so for grateful humility.
                                                                                for i'm sure there was a moment there when each of us 3
                                                                                inaugural 'steam-riders' imagined our scalded remains littering the
                                                                                hillside...

                                                                                ...
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 740 From: Dave Slater Date: 12/15/2005
                                                                                Subject: Re: The Black Hills '1880' Saddle-Tanker, and It's Friends
                                                                                Imp,
                                                                                Thanks for the info, I see a road trip South in the next couple of years..
                                                                                Dave S.

                                                                                Imp Ster wrote:

                                                                                 yes, the saddle tanker is still there and is the mainstay of operations.
                                                                                meanwhile, ol # 7 was shipped south to star in a movie of some sort,
                                                                                but should be returned by spring 2006 for summer work as usual.
                                                                                the big deal is, they have been running the fully-restored Weyerhauser
                                                                                Mallet for some time now.
                                                                                they all run on recycled motor oil as fuel, unpon which incendiary
                                                                                caution hangs a tale.

                                                                                (btw, i am in desperate need of a Mantua logger chassis to blueprint...
                                                                                side-tank model prefered, but will grudgingly acept the tender
                                                                                version.... anybody got a basket case they can part with? ...
                                                                                orrrr....?? heheheh )

                                                                                i was fortunate enough to dead-head a ride on the tender deck of #7 on
                                                                                it's first test ride up the hills after a complete boiler rebuild some
                                                                                years ago.
                                                                                as we headed into the first grade, there was a slightly worrying
                                                                                incident involving the firebox over-heating and causing the fuel-oil to
                                                                                detonate explosively, which resultant super-draft of pure inferno
                                                                                exponentialy increased the steaming of the boiler - the pops went off
                                                                                as i'm sure they had never dreamed of doing, the steam pressure
                                                                                indicator needle started twitching and surging, the fireman shut off
                                                                                the oil feed but the monster draft kept sucking more oil into the box,
                                                                                the continuous oil detonations continued to massively rattle the fire-
                                                                                door, the cab and all of our teeth, but the day was saved by the
                                                                                fireman hoving at the firebox with shovels full of sand.

                                                                                needless to say, the trip back down the mountain was a lot less notable
                                                                                for hubris, and the more so for grateful humility.
                                                                                for i'm sure there was a moment there when each of us 3
                                                                                inaugural 'steam-riders' imagined our scalded remains littering the
                                                                                hillside...

                                                                                ...
                                                                                 
                                                                                 
                                                                                 


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                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 741 From: Gerry Date: 12/15/2005
                                                                                Subject: Re: Mantua 0-4-0 w/slope back tender
                                                                                Joe,
                                                                                I looked, I really looked, I thought I had a few, but only found one.
                                                                                image at http://www.ourpage.com/tyco-engines/tyco-drawbar.jpg
                                                                                I'm gonna need it when I finally work on the engines on that page:
                                                                                http://www.ourpage.com/tyco-engines/
                                                                                Want me to keep looking?
                                                                                Gerry



                                                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Bill Daley <retiredgrouch@y...> wrote:
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > oljoeoh <oljoe@l...> wrote: Had the misfortune of breaking the
                                                                                fiber drawbar
                                                                                > used to join the loco and tender. (etc)
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Joe,
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Best bet to replace it is to fabricate one from brass, using
                                                                                plastic/nylon screws and some of Mr. Kadee's red or gray washers for
                                                                                electrical insulation. Or look at imported brass steamers for how they
                                                                                use a brass drawbar to eliminate the pick-up wire and allow easy
                                                                                separation of loco and tender. This method will require some minimal
                                                                                skills and some workbench time. It will even work for DCC locos.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > BillD
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > SPONSORED LINKS
                                                                                > G scale train Ho scale model train Model train n scale
                                                                                G scale model train Ho scale trains N scale trains
                                                                                >
                                                                                > ---------------------------------
                                                                                > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Visit your group "vintageHO" on the web.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                Service.
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > ---------------------------------
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > ---------------------------------
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                                                                                > Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
                                                                                >
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 742 From: oljoe@landolls.com Date: 12/16/2005
                                                                                Subject: Re: Mantua 0-4-0 w/slope back tender
                                                                                Thanks for the info....
                                                                                Too bad you didn't have an extra. I've checked out bearloco
                                                                                and they appear to have several possibilities that will work
                                                                                although they aren't exact replacements. Will be calling
                                                                                bearloco today.
                                                                                The 0-6-0 I have has the full(optional) valve gear. It runs
                                                                                well, as do most of the Mantua locos.
                                                                                Regards,
                                                                                Joe

                                                                                Gerry wrote:
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Joe,
                                                                                > I looked, I really looked, I thought I had a few, but only found one.
                                                                                > image at http://www.ourpage.com/tyco-engines/tyco-drawbar.jpg
                                                                                > I'm gonna need it when I finally work on the engines on that page:
                                                                                > http://www.ourpage.com/tyco-engines/
                                                                                > Want me to keep looking?
                                                                                > Gerry
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Bill Daley <retiredgrouch@y...> wrote:
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > oljoeoh <oljoe@l...> wrote: Had the misfortune of breaking the
                                                                                > fiber drawbar
                                                                                > > used to join the loco and tender. (etc)
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > Joe,
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > Best bet to replace it is to fabricate one from brass, using
                                                                                > plastic/nylon screws and some of Mr. Kadee's red or gray washers for
                                                                                > electrical insulation. Or look at imported brass steamers for how they
                                                                                > use a brass drawbar to eliminate the pick-up wire and allow easy
                                                                                > separation of loco and tender. This method will require some minimal
                                                                                > skills and some workbench time. It will even work for DCC locos.
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > BillD
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > SPONSORED LINKS
                                                                                > > G scale train Ho scale model train Model train n scale
                                                                                > G scale model train Ho scale trains N scale trains
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > ---------------------------------
                                                                                > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > Visit your group "vintageHO" on the web.
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                > > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                > Service.
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > ---------------------------------
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > ---------------------------------
                                                                                > > Yahoo! Shopping
                                                                                > > Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                                >
                                                                                > * Visit your group "vintageHO
                                                                                > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO>" on the web.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                > <mailto:vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                                                                                >
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                                                                                > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                >
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 743 From: Gerry D Date: 12/16/2005
                                                                                Subject: Re: Mantua 0-4-0 w/slope back tender
                                                                                Joe, look at the pix on my links, the 0-4-0 and the
                                                                                0-6-0 also have full valve gear. When I get to
                                                                                re-working them this year, I may ask you about any
                                                                                tricks to get them running better.

                                                                                I'll look again tonight, I do remember a small clear 6
                                                                                compartment parts box, but last night I didn't see
                                                                                that.
                                                                                I vaguely remember it had tyco engine parts in it like
                                                                                valve gear rivits and screws etc..

                                                                                --- oljoe@... wrote:

                                                                                > Thanks for the info....
                                                                                > Too bad you didn't have an extra. I've checked out
                                                                                > bearloco
                                                                                > and they appear to have several possibilities that
                                                                                > will work
                                                                                > although they aren't exact replacements. Will be
                                                                                > calling
                                                                                > bearloco today.
                                                                                > The 0-6-0 I have has the full(optional) valve gear.
                                                                                > It runs
                                                                                > well, as do most of the Mantua locos.
                                                                                > Regards,
                                                                                > Joe
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Gerry wrote:
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > Joe,
                                                                                > > I looked, I really looked, I thought I had a few,
                                                                                > but only found one.
                                                                                > > image at
                                                                                > http://www.ourpage.com/tyco-engines/tyco-drawbar.jpg
                                                                                > > I'm gonna need it when I finally work on the
                                                                                > engines on that page:
                                                                                > > http://www.ourpage.com/tyco-engines/
                                                                                > > Want me to keep looking?
                                                                                > > Gerry
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Bill Daley
                                                                                > <retiredgrouch@y...> wrote:
                                                                                > > >
                                                                                > > >
                                                                                > > >
                                                                                > > > oljoeoh <oljoe@l...> wrote: Had the
                                                                                > misfortune of breaking the
                                                                                > > fiber drawbar
                                                                                > > > used to join the loco and tender. (etc)
                                                                                > > >
                                                                                > > > Joe,
                                                                                > > >
                                                                                > > > Best bet to replace it is to fabricate one
                                                                                > from brass, using
                                                                                > > plastic/nylon screws and some of Mr. Kadee's red
                                                                                > or gray washers for
                                                                                > > electrical insulation. Or look at imported brass
                                                                                > steamers for how they
                                                                                > > use a brass drawbar to eliminate the pick-up wire
                                                                                > and allow easy
                                                                                > > separation of loco and tender. This method will
                                                                                > require some minimal
                                                                                > > skills and some workbench time. It will even work
                                                                                > for DCC locos.
                                                                                > > >
                                                                                > > > BillD
                                                                                > > >
                                                                                > > >
                                                                                > > >
                                                                                > > > SPONSORED LINKS
                                                                                > > > G scale train Ho scale model train
                                                                                > Model train n scale
                                                                                > > G scale model train Ho scale trains N scale
                                                                                > trains
                                                                                > > >
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                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 744 From: Imp Ster Date: 12/16/2005
                                                                                Subject: a short rant on drawbars, and other Needful Things
                                                                                see, this is why i need to get my ox in gear and start producing
                                                                                exact-spec replacement items for Mantua and Athearn etc bygones.

                                                                                i mean, wouldnt all of you be pleased to know that you could order
                                                                                direct from lil ol me, Made In America, such things as the several
                                                                                lenths of fibre drawbars, plain and embossed steel valve & piston
                                                                                gear parts, solid and spoked metal wheels (to add electrical pick-up
                                                                                instead of the unfortunately hidious plastic items foisted in later
                                                                                editions upon many a pilot and trailing truck - upgrade and have no
                                                                                more stalling over frog gaps! ), metal cabs and pilots to add
                                                                                critical weight, even metal boilers to replace the plastic items on
                                                                                such feather-weight units as the Ten-Wheeler, the Moguls and
                                                                                Prairies, full-tread wheels to upgrade the 'rubber traction tire'
                                                                                items, flanged wheels to replace the blind center drivers etc etc.
                                                                                and of course a full range of electrical support, replacement
                                                                                brushes, gears and worms covering the several disparate styles
                                                                                employed over the years.

                                                                                Coming Soon To A Webpage Near You!

                                                                                so, with that in mind, i'd like to start a rolling poll of which
                                                                                items are most needed for restoration and maintenance.
                                                                                so if ya'll can think of any items that you need, want, or would just
                                                                                like to see back in production again (..and no, i wont be "going thru
                                                                                Walthers" ... they dont need MY help), feel free to start a Wish List
                                                                                and post it in .doc or .txt in the imp's "Factory Folder" in the
                                                                                Files section here.

                                                                                ...
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 745 From: AL Date: 12/16/2005
                                                                                Subject: Re: Digest Number 216
                                                                                wish list for repro parts.

                                                                                1) diecast replacement for the often missing Mantua / Tyco plastic loco
                                                                                cabs.

                                                                                2) the metal boilers for such as the 10 wheeler you mentioned would be nice
                                                                                (or,again,replacements for the oft missing boiler fronts)

                                                                                3) another that personally ( as a 'semi-purist', lol) that would be helpful
                                                                                at times, would be the old style handrail stanctions (Mantua / early Athearn
                                                                                ones that are 'flat' with a hole in top, not the bent / formed later Athearn
                                                                                ones.. i have a few older Athearn's with that style, and hard to find
                                                                                replacements, so it's scrounge from another with partial handrails, or
                                                                                switch to the later style ( which is generally 'more accurate' , but loses
                                                                                some of the 'vintage feel')

                                                                                well, those are the few that pop into my head at this late hour, maybe more
                                                                                later .

                                                                                Keep us posted on any developments.

                                                                                ~ AL

                                                                                > so, with that in mind, i'd like to start a rolling poll of which
                                                                                items are most needed for restoration and maintenance.
                                                                                so if ya'll can think of any items that you need, want, or would just
                                                                                like to see back in production again (..and no, i wont be "going thru
                                                                                Walthers" ... they dont need MY help), feel free to start a Wish List
                                                                                and post it in .doc or .txt in the imp's "Factory Folder" in the
                                                                                Files section here.
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 746 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 12/17/2005
                                                                                Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
                                                                                Hello,

                                                                                This email message is a notification to let you know that
                                                                                a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vintageHO
                                                                                group.

                                                                                File : / da imp's Factory Folder/001 Al's wish list for repro parts..doc
                                                                                Uploaded by : iimpster <iimpster@...>
                                                                                Description : wishlist 001 please repost futher edits as 002 003 etc tnx ...

                                                                                You can access this file at the URL:
                                                                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/%20da%20imp%27s%20Factory%20Folder/001%20Al%27s%20wish%20list%20for%20repro%20parts..doc

                                                                                To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
                                                                                http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

                                                                                Regards,

                                                                                iimpster <iimpster@...>
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 747 From: Imp Ster Date: 12/17/2005
                                                                                Subject: Fun w/ the Tyco Ten-Wheeler
                                                                                grets Al, as a fellow Tyco-10-Whlr fan, you may enjoy perusing the
                                                                                JPG of my sole Tyco 4-6-0, just posted here at VintageHO in my Files.

                                                                                this model is, incredibly, still running strong even after all
                                                                                my 'technical experiments'over the years (starting with the inept
                                                                                restorative fumblings of an 11yo boy)... a bit of sheet lead was
                                                                                curved over the motor and applied into the cab roof to add weight,
                                                                                provisional Rivarossi metal wheels added to pilot truck, improved
                                                                                lighting, KDs fore and aft, and my usual rather hidious trademark
                                                                                (Floquil) GN-Blue-&-Reefer-Grey paint job (which is done more to
                                                                                lighten the albedo and improve the visual contrast, than anything
                                                                                else, and as you can see, all that was some time ago...) - - but it
                                                                                still runs like the Great Locomotive Chase!

                                                                                someday i'll give it a metal boiler & cab, perhaps the first edition
                                                                                from my artisan foundry, full-flanged drivers and spoked pilot
                                                                                wheels, too.

                                                                                but now, i g2g deal with the fractured remains of a Varney F unit.

                                                                                cheers

                                                                                ...
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 748 From: Garry Spear Date: 12/19/2005
                                                                                Subject: Re: drawbars, my Solution
                                                                                Radio Shack sells (or at least sold last time I checked) a small board
                                                                                used for electronic experiments made of phoenlic. About 4" x 6",
                                                                                with lots of small holes.

                                                                                Simply pick approprate holes enlarge to needed size and cut and file
                                                                                the board to form the needed drawbar.

                                                                                Garry Spear
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 749 From: Larry Date: 12/28/2005
                                                                                Subject: Mantua Part Numbers and Diagrams
                                                                                Thought these might be of some interest to the members of this group.

                                                                                I found these diagrams for a number of old Mantua steam engines. The
                                                                                Material was dated back to February 1952.

                                                                                http://www.hoseeker.net/otherhotrains.html

                                                                                I would like to Thank Rudolf Redehass for the Varney GG-1, Bowser 4-6-6-
                                                                                4 and the Varney Freight Car Diagrams.

                                                                                Larry
                                                                                http://www.hoseeker.net
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 750 From: Don Rowland Date: 12/28/2005
                                                                                Subject: Mantua draw bar
                                                                                I couldn't find Joe who was looking for a draw bar, but there is a
                                                                                fellow advertising Mantua replacement parts on eBay. The draw bae is
                                                                                Item # 60248885588. I have made my own using old credit cards, but
                                                                                here is a place to get many replacement Mantua parts.

                                                                                Don
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 751 From: Sam Date: 12/30/2005
                                                                                Subject: Needed Detail Assoc. 2721
                                                                                Looking for Detail Associates # 2721, intake grill for GP-9. Any help
                                                                                appreciated. Will take several sets if anyone has any extras to sell.
                                                                                TIA,
                                                                                Sam
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 752 From: Imp Ster Date: 12/31/2005
                                                                                Subject: Happy New Year! - the Trains are Running!
                                                                                greets, VintageHO compatriots!

                                                                                as a typically-eccentric imp.com experiment, my webcam will be spying
                                                                                on my test-bench layout for the duration of New Year festivities.
                                                                                at the present moment, the tireless coffee train is looping, pulled
                                                                                by the faithful Athearn U-Boat in GN livery (classic 1st-geared
                                                                                edition upgraded with flywheels.)

                                                                                my significant New Year's Resolution? - get the computer set up in
                                                                                the buss so the Big Kahuna layout there, now tragicaly gathering dust
                                                                                and cobwebs, can similarly entertain and enlighten the wWw masses.

                                                                                to see the webcam, 1st sign into the Yahoo (or Trillian, etc) Instant
                                                                                Messenger service, 2nd add my Yahoo ID as a contact, then 3rd clink
                                                                                on the live webcam link which will be showing next to my ID whenever
                                                                                my webcam is active.

                                                                                ah, New Years!
                                                                                most of the planet will be tossing in heavy seas of inebriated merry-
                                                                                making, but ii plan to ring in the New Year relatively sober, here at
                                                                                home, in the company of friends both virtual and corporeal.
                                                                                ("Rule G" is in effect!)
                                                                                thus, if you weary of the holiday madness & mayhem to be found in
                                                                                the "real world", drop by the terminal and set a spell.
                                                                                we'l leave the trains on for ya!

                                                                                so, warmest wishes for a Most Fortunate New Year, to all here at
                                                                                VintageHO !!

                                                                                cheers, da imp

                                                                                ...
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 753 From: oljoeoh Date: 1/1/2006
                                                                                Subject: Penn Line Whitcomb switcher
                                                                                I would like to locate the instruction sheet/parts list
                                                                                for this loco - anyone have one. I will pay copying/postage
                                                                                costs....
                                                                                Thanks,
                                                                                Joe O'Loughlin
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 754 From: oljoeoh Date: 1/1/2006
                                                                                Subject: Re: Mantua draw bar
                                                                                Through some good luck I was able to purchase
                                                                                2 of these in brand new condition.
                                                                                Joe

                                                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Rowland" <donhotrains@c...> wrote:
                                                                                >
                                                                                > I couldn't find Joe who was looking for a draw bar, but there is a
                                                                                > fellow advertising Mantua replacement parts on eBay. The draw bae is
                                                                                > Item # 60248885588. I have made my own using old credit cards, but
                                                                                > here is a place to get many replacement Mantua parts.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Don
                                                                                >
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 755 From: Phil Date: 1/2/2006
                                                                                Subject: Cutting Passenger Car Shells
                                                                                Hello, Does anyone in the group know a way to cut plastic passenger
                                                                                car shells straight. My dad has some he would like to cut so he can
                                                                                modify and make a different lenght getting a nice clean straight cut.
                                                                                Thanks.....

                                                                                Phil....
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 756 From: Thomas Businger Date: 1/2/2006
                                                                                Subject: Re: Cutting Passenger Car Shells
                                                                                Phil, I would suggest a miter box and a fine toothed backsaw for a nice straight cut. Use a small square to be certain the cut is 90 degrees. I do not have personal experience doing this, someone else here may have a much better method.  Tom

                                                                                Phil <UptownVideo@...> wrote:
                                                                                Hello, Does anyone in the group know a way to cut plastic passenger
                                                                                car shells straight. My dad has some he would like to cut so he can
                                                                                modify and make a different lenght getting a nice clean straight cut.
                                                                                Thanks.....

                                                                                Phil....






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                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 757 From: Phil Date: 1/2/2006
                                                                                Subject: Re: Cutting Passenger Car Shells
                                                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Businger
                                                                                <thomasbusinger@s...> wrote:
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Phil, I would suggest a miter box and a fine toothed backsaw for a
                                                                                nice straight cut. Use a small square to be certain the cut is 90
                                                                                degrees. I do not have personal experience doing this, someone else
                                                                                here may have a much better method. Tom

                                                                                Hi Tom,

                                                                                Thanks for fast reply....I beleive my dad said they are too big for
                                                                                his scale miter box as they are S Gauge Passenger shells....I think
                                                                                he's nervous about trying a full size miter box as a full size saw is
                                                                                not fine enough for his application....Thanks....

                                                                                Phil.....
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 758 From: Thomas Businger Date: 1/2/2006
                                                                                Subject: Re: Cutting Passenger Car Shells
                                                                                Phil, You are welcome, sorry I wasn't much help.  A full size miter box "may" work using a very fine toothed hacksaw blade or using a dovetail saw available through woodworking stores.  If Dad is going to do a lot of cutting possibly one of the small powered saws at www.micromark.com  .  Tom
                                                                                Phil <UptownVideo@...> wrote:
                                                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Businger
                                                                                wrote:
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Phil, I would suggest a miter box and a fine toothed backsaw for a
                                                                                nice straight cut. Use a small square to be certain the cut is 90
                                                                                degrees. I do not have personal experience doing this, someone else
                                                                                here may have a much better method. Tom

                                                                                Hi Tom,

                                                                                Thanks for fast reply....I beleive my dad said they are too big for
                                                                                his scale miter box as they are S Gauge Passenger shells....I think
                                                                                he's nervous about trying a full size miter box as a full size saw is
                                                                                not fine enough for his application....Thanks....

                                                                                Phil.....







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                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 759 From: Sam Date: 1/2/2006
                                                                                Subject: Re: Cutting Passenger Car Shells
                                                                                Phil,
                                                                                I would suggest wrapping the body with 2" masking tape where you want
                                                                                to cut and get a wide blade razor saw, the one I have is 1 1/4" X 6
                                                                                1/2". Layout the cut line with a small square first and use the edge
                                                                                of the masking tape as a guide, wrap it 2 or 3 wraps. The 2" tape
                                                                                will hold it pretty square. After cutting dress it up with a laminate
                                                                                file if necessary. Lamiante files are used for fileing plastics like
                                                                                counter tops and plexiglas. They give a nice clean edge.
                                                                                Hope this helps,
                                                                                Sam


                                                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Businger
                                                                                <thomasbusinger@s...> wrote:
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Phil, You are welcome, sorry I wasn't much help. A full size miter
                                                                                box "may" work using a very fine toothed hacksaw blade or using a
                                                                                dovetail saw available through woodworking stores. If Dad is going
                                                                                to do a lot of cutting possibly one of the small powered saws at
                                                                                www.micromark.com . Tom
                                                                                > Phil <UptownVideo@j...> wrote: --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                Thomas Businger
                                                                                > wrote:
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > Phil, I would suggest a miter box and a fine toothed backsaw for
                                                                                a
                                                                                > nice straight cut. Use a small square to be certain the cut is 90
                                                                                > degrees. I do not have personal experience doing this, someone else
                                                                                > here may have a much better method. Tom
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Hi Tom,
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Thanks for fast reply....I beleive my dad said they are too big for
                                                                                > his scale miter box as they are S Gauge Passenger shells....I think
                                                                                > he's nervous about trying a full size miter box as a full size saw
                                                                                is
                                                                                > not fine enough for his application....Thanks....
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Phil.....
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                >
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 760 From: Phil Date: 1/2/2006
                                                                                Subject: Re: Cutting Passenger Car Shells
                                                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Sam" <photobysam@y...> wrote:
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Phil,
                                                                                > I would suggest wrapping the body with 2" masking tape where you
                                                                                want
                                                                                > to cut and get a wide blade razor saw, the one I have is 1 1/4" X 6
                                                                                > 1/2". Layout the cut line with a small square first and use the edge
                                                                                > of the masking tape as a guide, wrap it 2 or 3 wraps. The 2" tape
                                                                                > will hold it pretty square. After cutting dress it up with a
                                                                                laminate
                                                                                > file if necessary. Lamiante files are used for fileing plastics like
                                                                                > counter tops and plexiglas. They give a nice clean edge.
                                                                                > Hope this helps,
                                                                                > Sam
                                                                                >

                                                                                Sam,

                                                                                Thanks for the info. I am going to forward it to my Dad. I am a HO
                                                                                modeler myself, unlike my dad who is into S gauge and brave enough to
                                                                                try cutting shells....I enjoy scratch building HO bridges......I am
                                                                                grateful to all who have responded....All future responses are welcome.
                                                                                Thanks to all and an interesting forum.

                                                                                Phil.....
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 761 From: Bill Daley Date: 1/4/2006
                                                                                Subject: Re: Cutting Passenger Car Shells


                                                                                Phil <UptownVideo@...> wrote:

                                                                                 
                                                                                All future responses are welcome.
                                                                                Thanks to all and an interesting forum.

                                                                                Phil.....
                                                                                 
                                                                                Phil, advise your dad to shape a piece of dimensional lumber -- a 2x4 x 12" -- to fit inside the shell. This will keep the lower edges of the sides from flexing while being sawn. And tell him to go s-l-o-w and steady. I've bashed/hacked up quite a few HO shells and the first cut is the hardest.
                                                                                 
                                                                                BillD





                                                                                Yahoo! Photos
                                                                                Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 762 From: Mike Date: 1/6/2006
                                                                                Subject: your invited
                                                                                Your invited to visit my HO Scale model railroad town here at
                                                                                http://www.sitesled.com/members/dellview/
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 763 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 1/8/2006
                                                                                Subject: New member intro
                                                                                Hello, and I would like to say that I'm happy to be a member. I have
                                                                                been a Model Railroader for the past 60+ yrs and the vintage trains are
                                                                                my favorites.They bring the history of this great hobby to life.I feel
                                                                                that all of the advances made today are because of them.These were
                                                                                model trains that were designed to be used and they were made heavy and
                                                                                strong enough to outlast most of what is on the market today. I have
                                                                                some great Varney locos,the Dockside,Casey Jones, and one that I
                                                                                believe was a 2-8-4 but it is missing the trailing truck. I also have a
                                                                                John English 2-8-2 still in its original box, and a 4-6-2 that I'm
                                                                                trying to restore.Now I have a question, I have a plastic kit for an HO
                                                                                scale C&NW Pioneer that I have had since it was new. The kit is made by
                                                                                O-Lin Products Chicago 25,(this was before ZIP codes) Illinois,I can't
                                                                                find any dates on the instructions and am wondering if anyone here ever
                                                                                heard of it and can give me a date.The kit # is 100.
                                                                                Thank you
                                                                                Chuck
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 764 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 1/8/2006
                                                                                Subject: Re: New member intro
                                                                                Hi chuck,
                                                                                 Welcome to the group.
                                                                                 I have one of those Pioneer locomotives also. It was missing some parts and I had to substitute and fabricate some parts to put it together.
                                                                                 I couldn't find any info on the company.

                                                                                Chuck Svihlik <c_t_j_dad@...> wrote:
                                                                                Hello, and I would like to say that I'm happy to be a member. I have
                                                                                been a Model Railroader for the past 60+ yrs and the vintage trains are
                                                                                my favorites.They bring the history of this great hobby to life.I feel
                                                                                that all of the advances made today are because of them.These were
                                                                                model trains that were designed to be used and they were made heavy and
                                                                                strong enough to outlast most of what is on the market today. I have
                                                                                some great Varney locos,the Dockside,Casey Jones, and one that I
                                                                                believe was a 2-8-4 but it is missing the trailing truck. I also have a
                                                                                John English 2-8-2 still in its original box, and a 4-6-2 that I'm
                                                                                trying to restore.Now I have a question, I have a plastic kit for an HO
                                                                                scale C&NW Pioneer that I have had since it was new. The kit is made by
                                                                                O-Lin Products Chicago 25,(this was before ZIP codes) Illinois,I can't
                                                                                find any dates on the instructions and am wondering if anyone here ever
                                                                                heard of it and can give me a date.The kit # is 100.
                                                                                Thank you
                                                                                Chuck









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                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 765 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 1/9/2006
                                                                                Subject: neat find
                                                                                While trying to find info on my Varney 2-8-4 I decided to straighten
                                                                                out some of my books. One of the books that I was thinking about
                                                                                getting rid of is The Complete Book Of Model Railroading by
                                                                                Sutton.Being a person who has a hard time getting rid of anything (my
                                                                                wife will agree) I decided to look through it and there it was a
                                                                                complete diagram of my 2-8-4, not only a diagram but pictures of the
                                                                                complete loco. There are diagrams for the Casey Jones and many great
                                                                                pics of other vintage locos. This book is almost always listed on eBay
                                                                                and goes very cheap. I now have a new reference for alot of my vintage
                                                                                trains. Sure glad I looked before I tossed.
                                                                                Chuck
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 766 From: John Carson Date: 1/9/2006
                                                                                Subject: Re: neat find - "Chuck Svihlik"
                                                                                > While trying to find info on my Varney 2-8-4 I decided to straighten
                                                                                >out some of my books. One of the books that I was thinking about
                                                                                >getting rid of is The Complete Book Of Model Railroading by
                                                                                >Sutton.

                                                                                In your book, does it mention anything about a Cagney. I have a photo if
                                                                                anyone wants to look at it.

                                                                                This is a non-model railroad Steam Loco with tender assumed it is a Cagney
                                                                                build of wood and metal. basically a toy. My Grandfather got it as toy at 6
                                                                                yrs(1906). It supposedly is a look of a Cagney that was at a World Fair in
                                                                                St. Louis (1904). 20" long about 9 inches high (guessing).

                                                                                John


                                                                                John Carson
                                                                                smilie59@...
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 767 From: John Barlow Date: 1/9/2006
                                                                                Subject: Re: Anyone Ever Hear of...
                                                                                Railway HO Models...out of Phoenix, Oregon???
                                                                                 
                                                                                Dear Folks,
                                                                                 
                                                                                Seriously, I have a "O&N.W" ("Route of the Conestoga"), 42-foot Aluminum Box Car kit I picked up a number of years ago here at a train show. The kit looks Silver Streak but has paper dry lading (emboised) roof. End details are lead with some minor flash. Strathmore sides (pre-printed) are for this (to me) unheard of Northwest Pacific railroad. Directions are like something pre-dating Silver Streak but are printed as "Red Ball." Trucks are Allied Full Cushion...solid pot metal truck frame with brass wheels and axles. A separate set of plastic freight trucks were found in this transparent bag in the kit. BUT THE KICKER IS THE VIAL OF SILVER PAINT INCLUDED. IT"S LIQUID FRESH...AS THE DAY IT WAS PUT INTO THIS KIT. HOW MANY DECADES? I don't know.
                                                                                 
                                                                                The address predates Zip Codes ( has none) and only gives a P.O. Box 110, Phoenix, Oregon. Any clues about thios company and the prototype railraod?
                                                                                 
                                                                                 
                                                                                 


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                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 768 From: don.dellmann Date: 1/9/2006
                                                                                Subject: Re: Anyone Ever Hear of...
                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                From: John Barlow <jdenver4150@...>
                                                                                To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 3:02 PM
                                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Anyone Ever Hear of...


                                                                                > Railway HO Models...out of Phoenix, Oregon???
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Dear Folks,
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Seriously, I have a "O&N.W" ("Route of the Conestoga"), 42-foot Aluminum
                                                                                Box Car kit I picked up a number of years ago here at a train show. The kit
                                                                                looks Silver Streak but has paper dry lading (emboised) roof. End details
                                                                                are lead with some minor flash. Strathmore sides (pre-printed) are for this
                                                                                (to me) unheard of Northwest Pacific railroad. Directions are like something
                                                                                pre-dating Silver Streak but are printed as "Red Ball." Trucks are Allied
                                                                                Full Cushion...solid pot metal truck frame with brass wheels and axles. A
                                                                                separate set of plastic freight trucks were found in this transparent bag in
                                                                                the kit. BUT THE KICKER IS THE VIAL OF SILVER PAINT INCLUDED. IT"S LIQUID
                                                                                FRESH...AS THE DAY IT WAS PUT INTO THIS KIT. HOW MANY DECADES? I don't know.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > The address predates Zip Codes ( has none) and only gives a P.O. Box
                                                                                110, Phoenix, Oregon. Any clues about thios company and the prototype
                                                                                railraod?
                                                                                >
                                                                                > John (jdenver4150@...)


                                                                                "Red Ball" as a brand has been around for around 60 years or more, under
                                                                                various owners, including Howell Day, M. Dale Newton, Wabash Valley and
                                                                                others. In fact, in the 1990's "Cannonball Car Shops" released plastic
                                                                                versions of some of the old Red Ball cars. As far as a date, the address
                                                                                would be a clue. The oldest address I have at my fingertips is for Howell
                                                                                Day ca. 1959, at that time he was in Dunellen NJ, I'd guess your car is
                                                                                probably older than that.

                                                                                As far as the Allied trucks, I actually think I have a couple pair in my
                                                                                junque drawer.

                                                                                Don

                                                                                don.dellmann@...
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                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 769 From: don.dellmann Date: 1/9/2006
                                                                                Subject: Re: Anyone Ever Hear of...
                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                From: John Barlow <jdenver4150@...>
                                                                                To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 3:02 PM
                                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Anyone Ever Hear of...


                                                                                > Railway HO Models...out of Phoenix, Oregon???
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Dear Folks,
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Seriously, I have a "O&N.W" ("Route of the Conestoga"), 42-foot Aluminum
                                                                                Box Car kit I picked up a number of years ago here at a train show. The kit
                                                                                looks Silver Streak but has paper dry lading (emboised) roof. End details
                                                                                are lead with some minor flash. Strathmore sides (pre-printed) are for this
                                                                                (to me) unheard of Northwest Pacific railroad. Directions are like something
                                                                                pre-dating Silver Streak but are printed as "Red Ball." Trucks are Allied
                                                                                Full Cushion...solid pot metal truck frame with brass wheels and axles. A
                                                                                separate set of plastic freight trucks were found in this transparent bag in
                                                                                the kit. BUT THE KICKER IS THE VIAL OF SILVER PAINT INCLUDED. IT"S LIQUID
                                                                                FRESH...AS THE DAY IT WAS PUT INTO THIS KIT. HOW MANY DECADES? I don't know.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > The address predates Zip Codes ( has none) and only gives a P.O. Box
                                                                                110, Phoenix, Oregon. Any clues about thios company and the prototype
                                                                                railraod?
                                                                                >
                                                                                > John (jdenver4150@...)

                                                                                As a "PS" to my original post, a bit of search reveals an "Oregon &
                                                                                Northwestern" railroad.

                                                                                http://www.abandonedrailroads.com/or_onw_burns_seneca.htm

                                                                                Don

                                                                                don.dellmann@...
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                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 770 From: John Barlow Date: 1/9/2006
                                                                                Subject: Re: The New Red Ball Website...
                                                                                Dear Don,
                                                                                 
                                                                                Red Ball brass-New Jersey-had a few brass from them in a former life (BD) before divorce. They are now owned by Model Railroad Warehouse of Roanoke, Indiana. Their website is http://mrrwarehouse.com. They recently released the etched metal-sided version of the Pullman Troop Car, and the owner went heavily into its history on his site, including the G-10 version (of which there were three only and only used on the West Coast about the post-WW II and Korean War period.) They were Military Police (MP) escort cars that accompanied ammo/ordnance shipments and had a small cupola on top. Allied full cushion trucks I have coming out my ying-yang.
                                                                                 
                                                                                Thanks again for your input.
                                                                                 
                                                                                John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)
                                                                                 


                                                                                "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote:

                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                From: John Barlow <jdenver4150@...>
                                                                                To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 3:02 PM
                                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Anyone Ever Hear of...


                                                                                > Railway HO Models...out of Phoenix, Oregon???
                                                                                >
                                                                                >   Dear Folks,
                                                                                >
                                                                                >   Seriously, I have a "O&N.W" ("Route of the Conestoga"), 42-foot Aluminum
                                                                                Box Car kit I picked up a number of years ago here at a train show. The kit
                                                                                looks Silver Streak but has paper dry lading (emboised) roof. End details
                                                                                are lead with some minor flash. Strathmore sides (pre-printed) are for this
                                                                                (to me) unheard of Northwest Pacific railroad. Directions are like something
                                                                                pre-dating Silver Streak but are printed as "Red Ball." Trucks are Allied
                                                                                Full Cushion...solid pot metal truck frame with brass wheels and axles. A
                                                                                separate set of plastic freight trucks were found in this transparent bag in
                                                                                the kit. BUT THE KICKER IS THE VIAL OF SILVER PAINT INCLUDED. IT"S LIQUID
                                                                                FRESH...AS THE DAY IT WAS PUT INTO THIS KIT. HOW MANY DECADES? I don't know.
                                                                                >
                                                                                >   The address predates Zip Codes ( has none) and only gives a P.O. Box
                                                                                110, Phoenix, Oregon. Any clues about thios company and the prototype
                                                                                railraod?
                                                                                >
                                                                                >   John (jdenver4150@...)


                                                                                "Red Ball" as a brand has been around for around 60 years or more, under
                                                                                various owners, including Howell Day, M. Dale Newton, Wabash Valley and
                                                                                others.  In fact, in the 1990's "Cannonball Car Shops" released plastic
                                                                                versions of some of the old Red Ball cars.  As far as a date, the address
                                                                                would be a clue.  The oldest address I have at my fingertips is for Howell
                                                                                Day ca. 1959, at that time he was in Dunellen NJ, I'd guess your car is
                                                                                probably older than that.

                                                                                As far as the Allied trucks, I actually think I have a couple pair in my
                                                                                junque drawer.

                                                                                Don

                                                                                don.dellmann@...
                                                                                http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
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                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 771 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 1/9/2006
                                                                                Subject: Re: neat find - "Chuck Svihlik"
                                                                                John, I'll look to see what I can find. Would love to see a picture of it, it sounds awsome.
                                                                                Chuck

                                                                                John Carson <smilie59@...> wrote:
                                                                                >  While trying to find info on my Varney 2-8-4 I decided to straighten
                                                                                >out some of my books. One of the books that I was thinking about
                                                                                >getting rid of is The Complete Book Of Model Railroading by
                                                                                >Sutton.

                                                                                In your book, does it mention anything about a Cagney. I have a photo if
                                                                                anyone wants to look at it.

                                                                                This is a non-model railroad Steam Loco with tender assumed it is a Cagney
                                                                                build of wood and metal. basically a toy. My Grandfather got it as toy at 6
                                                                                yrs(1906). It supposedly is a look of a Cagney that was at a World Fair in
                                                                                St. Louis (1904). 20" long about 9 inches high (guessing).

                                                                                John


                                                                                John Carson
                                                                                smilie59@...






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                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 772 From: John Carson Date: 1/9/2006
                                                                                Subject: Re: neat find - "Chuck Svihlik"
                                                                                >>In your book, does it mention anything about a Cagney. I have a photo if
                                                                                >>anyone wants to look at it.
                                                                                >>
                                                                                >>This is a non-model railroad Steam Loco with tender assumed it is a Cagney
                                                                                >>build of wood and metal. basically a toy. My Grandfather got it as toy at
                                                                                >>6
                                                                                >>yrs(1906). It supposedly is a look of a Cagney that was at a World Fair in
                                                                                >>St. Louis (1904). 20" long about 9 inches high (guessing).
                                                                                >>
                                                                                >>John


                                                                                >John, I'll look to see what I can find. Would love to see a picture of it,
                                                                                >it sounds awsome.
                                                                                > Chuck

                                                                                yes, i just uploaded it to the photo library - album is under the name D.J.
                                                                                Carson



                                                                                John Carson
                                                                                smilie59@...
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 773 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 1/10/2006
                                                                                Subject: Re: neat find - "Chuck Svihlik"
                                                                                WOW that's a real treasure, I'll see what I can find out for you.
                                                                                Chuck

                                                                                John Carson <smilie59@...> wrote:
                                                                                >>In your book, does it mention anything about a Cagney. I have a photo if
                                                                                >>anyone wants to look at it.
                                                                                >>
                                                                                >>This is a non-model railroad Steam Loco with tender assumed it is a Cagney
                                                                                >>build of wood and metal. basically a toy. My Grandfather got it as toy at
                                                                                >>6
                                                                                >>yrs(1906). It supposedly is a look of a Cagney that was at a World Fair in
                                                                                >>St. Louis (1904). 20" long about 9 inches high (guessing).
                                                                                >>
                                                                                >>John


                                                                                >John, I'll look to see what I can find. Would love to see a picture of it,
                                                                                >it sounds awsome.
                                                                                >   Chuck

                                                                                yes, i just uploaded it to the photo library - album is under the name D.J.
                                                                                Carson



                                                                                John Carson
                                                                                smilie59@...




                                                                                Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less

                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 774 From: erieberk Date: 1/10/2006
                                                                                Subject: Re: Anyone Ever Hear of...
                                                                                John, Nice find at that train show of years ago. That has got to be
                                                                                a rare item; seems like it was an "area" type of production, being
                                                                                produced in Oregon of an obscure Oregon Railroad. The O&NW (Oregon
                                                                                and North Western) was a 51 mile short line logging railroad which
                                                                                ran between Seneca and Hines, Oregon. Several kit manufacturers used
                                                                                to include a small bottle of paint in the box to help finish the
                                                                                model in a matching shade (if the sides were pre-painted and
                                                                                lettered), or just to supply the correct color for the car. Ray
                                                                                \
                                                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@y...>
                                                                                wrote:
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Railway HO Models...out of Phoenix, Oregon???
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Dear Folks,
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Seriously, I have a "O&N.W" ("Route of the Conestoga"), 42-foot
                                                                                Aluminum Box Car kit I picked up a number of years ago here at a
                                                                                train show. The kit looks Silver Streak but has paper dry lading
                                                                                (emboised) roof. End details are lead with some minor flash.
                                                                                Strathmore sides (pre-printed) are for this (to me) unheard of
                                                                                Northwest Pacific railroad. Directions are like something pre-dating
                                                                                Silver Streak but are printed as "Red Ball." Trucks are Allied Full
                                                                                Cushion...solid pot metal truck frame with brass wheels and axles. A
                                                                                separate set of plastic freight trucks were found in this transparent
                                                                                bag in the kit. BUT THE KICKER IS THE VIAL OF SILVER PAINT INCLUDED.
                                                                                IT"S LIQUID FRESH...AS THE DAY IT WAS PUT INTO THIS KIT. HOW MANY
                                                                                DECADES? I don't know.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > The address predates Zip Codes ( has none) and only gives a P.O.
                                                                                Box 110, Phoenix, Oregon. Any clues about thios company and the
                                                                                prototype railraod?
                                                                                >
                                                                                > John (jdenver4150@y...)
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > ---------------------------------
                                                                                > Yahoo! Photos
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                                                                                >
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 775 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 1/10/2006
                                                                                Subject: Re: neat find - "Chuck Svihlik"
                                                                                John, I've looked everywhere I can think of and no luck. I will keep
                                                                                checking but there's nothing in my book.
                                                                                Chuck


                                                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Chuck Svihlik <c_t_j_dad@y...>
                                                                                wrote:
                                                                                >
                                                                                > WOW that's a real treasure, I'll see what I can find out for you.
                                                                                > Chuck
                                                                                >
                                                                                > John Carson <smilie59@h...> wrote:
                                                                                > >>In your book, does it mention anything about a Cagney. I have a
                                                                                photo if
                                                                                > >>anyone wants to look at it.
                                                                                > >>
                                                                                > >>This is a non-model railroad Steam Loco with tender assumed it is
                                                                                a Cagney
                                                                                > >>build of wood and metal. basically a toy. My Grandfather got it
                                                                                as toy at
                                                                                > >>6
                                                                                > >>yrs(1906). It supposedly is a look of a Cagney that was at a
                                                                                World Fair in
                                                                                > >>St. Louis (1904). 20" long about 9 inches high (guessing).
                                                                                > >>
                                                                                > >>John
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > >John, I'll look to see what I can find. Would love to see a
                                                                                picture of it,
                                                                                > >it sounds awsome.
                                                                                > > Chuck
                                                                                >
                                                                                > yes, i just uploaded it to the photo library - album is under the
                                                                                name D.J.
                                                                                > Carson
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > John Carson
                                                                                > smilie59@h...
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
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                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 776 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 1/10/2006
                                                                                Subject: Great place for parts
                                                                                Hello,
                                                                                I would like to tell you of a great place to get parts for many of
                                                                                your vintage trains. Not only have I been able to find the parts I
                                                                                needed for my Varney 2-8-4, but also parts for my Mantua locos as well.
                                                                                Check them out at: http://yardbirdtrains.com/index.htm

                                                                                Chuck
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 777 From: don.dellmann Date: 1/10/2006
                                                                                Subject: Re: Great place for parts
                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                From: Chuck Svihlik <c_t_j_dad@...>
                                                                                To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 5:39 PM
                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] Great place for parts


                                                                                > Hello,
                                                                                > I would like to tell you of a great place to get parts for many of
                                                                                > your vintage trains. Not only have I been able to find the parts I
                                                                                > needed for my Varney 2-8-4, but also parts for my Mantua locos as well.
                                                                                > Check them out at: http://yardbirdtrains.com/index.htm
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Chuck

                                                                                If you haven't already, would you add this to the "links" sction on the
                                                                                group home page?

                                                                                Don

                                                                                don.dellmann@...
                                                                                http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
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                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 778 From: don.dellmann Date: 1/10/2006
                                                                                Subject: Re: neat find - "Chuck Svihlik"
                                                                                Try typing "Cagney Steam Engine" into Google.

                                                                                Here's one link that looks promising

                                                                                http://www.trainweb.org/parktrains/history/

                                                                                Here's another

                                                                                http://www.whistlestoptrains.com/ddollar1.html

                                                                                Don

                                                                                don.dellmann@...
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                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                From: Chuck Svihlik <c_t_j_dad@...>
                                                                                To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 12:43 PM
                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] Re: neat find - "Chuck Svihlik"


                                                                                > John, I've looked everywhere I can think of and no luck. I will keep
                                                                                > checking but there's nothing in my book.
                                                                                > Chuck
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Chuck Svihlik <c_t_j_dad@y...>
                                                                                > wrote:
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > WOW that's a real treasure, I'll see what I can find out for you.
                                                                                > > Chuck

                                                                                (text deleted)
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 779 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 1/10/2006
                                                                                Subject: Re: Great place for parts
                                                                                Just put in on.
                                                                                Chuck

                                                                                "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote:

                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                From: Chuck Svihlik <c_t_j_dad@...>
                                                                                To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 5:39 PM
                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] Great place for parts


                                                                                > Hello,
                                                                                >      I would like to tell you of a great place to get parts for many of
                                                                                > your vintage trains. Not only have I been able to find the parts I
                                                                                > needed for my Varney 2-8-4, but also parts for my Mantua locos as well.
                                                                                > Check them out at:   http://yardbirdtrains.com/index.htm
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Chuck

                                                                                If you haven't already, would you add this to the "links" sction on the
                                                                                group home page?

                                                                                Don

                                                                                don.dellmann@...
                                                                                http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
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                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 780 From: don.dellmann Date: 1/11/2006
                                                                                Subject: Re: Great place for parts
                                                                                Thanks

                                                                                Don

                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                From: Chuck Svihlik <c_t_j_dad@...>
                                                                                To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 6:17 PM
                                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Great place for parts


                                                                                > Just put in on.
                                                                                > Chuck
                                                                                >
                                                                                > "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                                                                >
                                                                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                > From: Chuck Svihlik <c_t_j_dad@...>
                                                                                > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                > Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 5:39 PM
                                                                                > Subject: [vintageHO] Great place for parts
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > > Hello,
                                                                                > > I would like to tell you of a great place to get parts for many of
                                                                                > > your vintage trains. Not only have I been able to find the parts I
                                                                                > > needed for my Varney 2-8-4, but also parts for my Mantua locos as well.
                                                                                > > Check them out at: http://yardbirdtrains.com/index.htm
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > Chuck
                                                                                >
                                                                                > If you haven't already, would you add this to the "links" sction on the
                                                                                > group home page?
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Don
                                                                                >
                                                                                > don.dellmann@...
                                                                                > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
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                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 781 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 1/11/2006
                                                                                Subject: welcome
                                                                                Welcome Yardbird I know you will like this group. I'm very happy you
                                                                                joined.
                                                                                Chuck
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 782 From: Imp Ster Date: 1/13/2006
                                                                                Subject: Yardbird's place
                                                                                looks like a great site, a labor of love, even if still a bit bare in
                                                                                spots.
                                                                                (still under construction)

                                                                                i will be eagerly waiting for expanded content!

                                                                                ...
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 783 From: Imp Ster Date: 1/14/2006
                                                                                Subject: Wanted! - Mantua 4-8-0 !! (..a 12 Wheeler? - who knew?)
                                                                                heheheh, ya learn something new every day.
                                                                                in my case, i never knew that Mantua had a 12 wheeler.
                                                                                i've lost count of all the unsalvageable unremarkable Tens that pass
                                                                                by on their way to oblivion via the local hobby shops HO "River
                                                                                Styx", but a 12? - hmm.

                                                                                so, gotta have one.

                                                                                Yardy's JPGs of the specs are too blurry to copy.
                                                                                i looked in my old (relatively clear) Mantua Xeroxes and didnt find
                                                                                the 12-Whl anywhere, tsk.

                                                                                so, here's my plea:

                                                                                anyone having a spare model 12-Whl that they might part with, for
                                                                                handsome (yet reasonable - i aint no Trump here guys!) compensation,
                                                                                please drop me a line.

                                                                                also, if anyone has the spec sheets, i would like request them to do
                                                                                a hi-resolution scan and either post it here in Files, or send me the
                                                                                data, so i can clean up (and detail) the resulting bit-map for re-
                                                                                printing, as i have done for other parts diagrams and vintage
                                                                                electrical circuit schematics in the past.

                                                                                also, since i'm here wishfully flapping me yap, i'm still in the mkt
                                                                                for more Prairies in any condition.
                                                                                (cant ever have too much of a good thing, eh?)

                                                                                cheers

                                                                                ...
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 784 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 1/14/2006
                                                                                Subject: Re: Wanted! - Mantua 4-8-0 !! (..a 12 Wheeler? - who knew?)
                                                                                Hi, have you checked eBay, there's one I found. Just put in this number  6028868718.
                                                                                Right now it's at $21, with 4 days left.
                                                                                Chuck

                                                                                Imp Ster <iimpster@...> wrote:
                                                                                heheheh, ya learn something new every day.
                                                                                in my case, i never knew that Mantua had a 12 wheeler.
                                                                                i've lost count of all the unsalvageable unremarkable Tens that pass
                                                                                by on their way to oblivion via the local hobby shops HO "River
                                                                                Styx", but a 12? - hmm.

                                                                                so, gotta have one.

                                                                                Yardy's JPGs of the specs are too blurry to copy.
                                                                                i looked in my old (relatively clear) Mantua Xeroxes and didnt find
                                                                                the 12-Whl anywhere, tsk.

                                                                                so, here's my plea:

                                                                                anyone having a spare model 12-Whl that they might part with, for
                                                                                handsome (yet reasonable - i aint no Trump here guys!) compensation,
                                                                                please drop me a line.

                                                                                also, if anyone has the spec sheets, i would like request them to do
                                                                                a hi-resolution scan and either post it here in Files, or send me the
                                                                                data, so i can clean up (and detail) the resulting bit-map for re-
                                                                                printing, as i have done for other parts diagrams and vintage
                                                                                electrical circuit schematics in the past.

                                                                                also, since i'm here wishfully flapping me yap, i'm still in the mkt
                                                                                for more Prairies in any condition.
                                                                                (cant ever have too much of a good thing, eh?)

                                                                                cheers

                                                                                ...





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                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 785 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 1/14/2006
                                                                                Subject: Re: Wanted! - Mantua 4-8-0 !! (..a 12 Wheeler? - who knew?)
                                                                                Hey guys... just joined up a few days ago, but haven't had a chance to do an intro.  I'm tagged Yardbird, ("Yardy"...?) from my love of the Pennsy A-5's. 
                                                                                I LOVE this vintage stuff!!  My favorites are Varney and John English steamers.  I've been in vintage HO all my life, but I don't get much time to enjoy my own locos anymore, so I thought getting into the group here would help me take a time out and remember why I'm in this hobby.  Chuck told me about this and I'm glad he did.  I hope to keep in touch with you "vintage" guys and learn a few things while enjoying some of the reminiscing.
                                                                                 
                                                                                I've got the specs on the Mantua 12'er.  If you want to send me a mail address I'll be happy to send you a clear copy.
                                                                                I look forward to talking with you guys from time to time! 
                                                                                 
                                                                                YB
                                                                                 
                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 3:05 PM
                                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Wanted! - Mantua 4-8-0 !! (..a 12 Wheeler? - who knew?)

                                                                                Hi, have you checked eBay, there's one I found. Just put in this number  6028868718.
                                                                                Right now it's at $21, with 4 days left.
                                                                                Chuck

                                                                                Imp Ster <iimpster@...> wrote:
                                                                                heheheh, ya learn something new every day.
                                                                                in my case, i never knew that Mantua had a 12 wheeler.
                                                                                i've lost count of all the unsalvageable unremarkable Tens that pass
                                                                                by on their way to oblivion via the local hobby shops HO "River
                                                                                Styx", but a 12? - hmm.

                                                                                so, gotta have one.

                                                                                Yardy's JPGs of the specs are too blurry to copy.
                                                                                i looked in my old (relatively clear) Mantua Xeroxes and didnt find
                                                                                the 12-Whl anywhere, tsk.

                                                                                so, here's my plea:

                                                                                anyone having a spare model 12-Whl that they might part with, for
                                                                                handsome (yet reasonable - i aint no Trump here guys!) compensation,
                                                                                please drop me a line.

                                                                                also, if anyone has the spec sheets, i would like request them to do
                                                                                a hi-resolution scan and either post it here in Files, or send me the
                                                                                data, so i can clean up (and detail) the resulting bit-map for re-
                                                                                printing, as i have done for other parts diagrams and vintage
                                                                                electrical circuit schematics in the past.

                                                                                also, since i'm here wishfully flapping me yap, i'm still in the mkt
                                                                                for more Prairies in any condition.
                                                                                (cant ever have too much of a good thing, eh?)

                                                                                cheers

                                                                                ...





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                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 786 From: Frank Date: 1/14/2006
                                                                                Subject: Hello. New to group.
                                                                                My name is Frank Olear. I'm from Bayonne NJ. I have been modeling for
                                                                                a long time so I have some old stuff. Penn Line, Gilbert, Marx,
                                                                                Trainminiture, Revell, Varney, Mantua. I run these. A lot of the old
                                                                                stuff I've gotten rid of but I still have a good amount left. My Penn
                                                                                Line steam gets alot of use. It would be nice if everthing made now
                                                                                would last as long and run as good as these locomotives. There 4-4-2's,
                                                                                2-8-0's, 2-8-2's, 4-6-2's, and 2-10-0's are great locomotives. When I
                                                                                run my PRR stuff, these and my John English A4's ( 0-4-0's ) and
                                                                                Gilbert B6's ( 0-6-0's ) get alot of work.
                                                                                Well by for now, Happy modeling.
                                                                                PS. O chuck I have a 4-8-0 you might want.
                                                                                frank toptrain
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 787 From: Frank Date: 1/15/2006
                                                                                Subject: Photos added frank olear
                                                                                I added some photos of some old wood beer cars. a fleischmann beer car.
                                                                                and a few Penn-Line cars.
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 788 From: don.dellmann Date: 1/15/2006
                                                                                Subject: Re: Photos added frank olear
                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                From: Frank <toptrain1@...>
                                                                                To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 9:53 AM
                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] Photos added frank olear


                                                                                > I added some photos of some old wood beer cars. a fleischmann beer car.
                                                                                > and a few Penn-Line cars.

                                                                                All those beer cars are making me thirsty! <G>

                                                                                Don

                                                                                don.dellmann@...
                                                                                http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
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                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 789 From: Frank Date: 1/15/2006
                                                                                Subject: New links toptrain frank o
                                                                                I put in some links to my aol groups. Trainminiture,Penn line, & Marx
                                                                                HO trains. That way I don't have to move pictures here and use space.
                                                                                If Don is out there the Trainminiture beer cars will make him even
                                                                                more thursty.
                                                                                frank o toptrain
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 790 From: don.dellmann Date: 1/15/2006
                                                                                Subject: Re: New links toptrain frank o
                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                From: Frank <toptrain1@...>
                                                                                To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 11:54 AM
                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] New links toptrain frank o


                                                                                > I put in some links to my aol groups. Trainminiture,Penn line, & Marx
                                                                                > HO trains. That way I don't have to move pictures here and use space.
                                                                                > If Don is out there the Trainminiture beer cars will make him even
                                                                                > more thursty.
                                                                                > frank o toptrain

                                                                                I'm downing a Pabst even as I type this <G>.

                                                                                Don

                                                                                don.dellmann@...
                                                                                http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
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                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 791 From: Imp Ster Date: 1/15/2006
                                                                                Subject: tnx Chuck, sorry, no more EBay for me
                                                                                Chuck, thanks for the direct anwyay.
                                                                                my credit line is so close to terminal that if i start haunting Ebay,
                                                                                i will be derailed in no time.
                                                                                (btw that $21 top bid for the 12 is dirt cheap, maybe someone else
                                                                                here will rescue that engine from oblivion.)

                                                                                i did notice that the same dealer has a Ten in the 'Spirit of 76'
                                                                                scheme along with the matching crummy, for only $7 top bid!!
                                                                                (probably so cheap due to missing stack)

                                                                                see what i mean? ..that, along with the 12, plus the old brass
                                                                                turnouts i saw for sale... even tho i have dozens and dozens of Atlas
                                                                                brass track sections and vintage #6 turnout kts and assembled hidden
                                                                                away in storage already... you see my problem.

                                                                                Yardy, you know you'v arrived when somebody pegs you with a nickname.
                                                                                i'd sure like to add scans of any vintage specs to my archives.
                                                                                please feel free to contact me off-list.
                                                                                i would only need the sheets temporarily, after i scan them, they
                                                                                would be returned to you ASAP.

                                                                                cheers all

                                                                                ...
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 792 From: Frank Date: 1/15/2006
                                                                                Subject: Re: New links toptrain frank o
                                                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...>
                                                                                wrote:
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                > From: Frank <toptrain1@a...>
                                                                                > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                > Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 11:54 AM
                                                                                > Subject: [vintageHO] New links toptrain frank o
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > > I put in some links to my aol groups. Trainminiture,Penn line, &
                                                                                Marx
                                                                                > > HO trains. That way I don't have to move pictures here and use
                                                                                space.
                                                                                > > If Don is out there the Trainminiture beer cars will make him
                                                                                even
                                                                                > > more thursty.
                                                                                > > frank o toptrain
                                                                                >
                                                                                > I'm downing a Pabst even as I type this <G>.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Don
                                                                                > Good for you Don. Mine is a Ballintine Ale.
                                                                                frank
                                                                                > don.dellmann@p...
                                                                                > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
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                                                                                > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                > co-moderator: SCENERY@Y...
                                                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                >
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 793 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 1/16/2006
                                                                                Subject: Vintage Electrical Help
                                                                                Wonder if anyone can help me on this...
                                                                                My layout is going together fine, with about 110 ft. of brass 100 track on plywood base, (making it as close to the way my dad did his in the early 50's).  I'm planning on screen and plaster like Dad's, and will even make the home-made trees like he did.  I have the blocks wired for sections of track, but plan on most of the switches being hand pulled.
                                                                                Here's the kicker -  I have the original AC American Flyer transformer that dad had on his layout - rounded with green & red lights on it - and also the rectifier that he used.   The rectifier has the round plates with leads coming out in different places in the setup.  Does anyone have a wiring diagram of what goes where to produce the DC out of these?  I remember using this as a boy (XXyrs ago), but can't remember how it was wired.  I'm determined to use this as my main power source as dad did.  It was a bit overkill for his little JE Yardbird loco, but my big Varneys should love it. 
                                                                                 
                                                                                Thanks for any help or thoughts on this.
                                                                                 
                                                                                "Yardy"
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 794 From: don.dellmann Date: 1/16/2006
                                                                                Subject: Re: Vintage Electrical Help
                                                                                Can you post as picture of the rectifier? I'm assuming it's a selenium
                                                                                rectifier with multiple plates. also are there any markings on the lugs?
                                                                                + , - , ~ ).

                                                                                Don

                                                                                don.dellmann@...
                                                                                http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
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                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                From: Yardbird Trains <danrbush@...>
                                                                                To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 1:00 PM
                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] Vintage Electrical Help


                                                                                Wonder if anyone can help me on this...
                                                                                My layout is going together fine, with about 110 ft. of brass 100 track on
                                                                                plywood base, (making it as close to the way my dad did his in the early
                                                                                50's). I'm planning on screen and plaster like Dad's, and will even make
                                                                                the home-made trees like he did. I have the blocks wired for sections of
                                                                                track, but plan on most of the switches being hand pulled.
                                                                                Here's the kicker - I have the original AC American Flyer transformer that
                                                                                dad had on his layout - rounded with green & red lights on it - and also the
                                                                                rectifier that he used. The rectifier has the round plates with leads
                                                                                coming out in different places in the setup. Does anyone have a wiring
                                                                                diagram of what goes where to produce the DC out of these? I remember using
                                                                                this as a boy (XXyrs ago), but can't remember how it was wired. I'm
                                                                                determined to use this as my main power source as dad did. It was a bit
                                                                                overkill for his little JE Yardbird loco, but my big Varneys should love it.

                                                                                Thanks for any help or thoughts on this.

                                                                                "Yardy"
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 795 From: Gerry D Date: 1/16/2006
                                                                                Subject: Re: Vintage Electrical Help
                                                                                Yardy,
                                                                                That's a great plan, but seriously, if that old
                                                                                selenium recifier does experience a short and fails,
                                                                                it can emit rather noxious fumes. Please reconsider.

                                                                                For another opinion, see these links:

                                                                                http://hhscott.com/cc/rectifiers.htm

                                                                                ehs.uc.edu/Advisories/Advisory_9_0.PDF

                                                                                www.bvws.org.uk/405alive/tech/safety.html

                                                                                (In the part about Selenium Rectifiers they say:
                                                                                Selenium dioxide is the major compound produced when a
                                                                                selenium rectifier is overheated. It can cause severe
                                                                                burns to the mucous membranes and severe respiratory
                                                                                tract, skin, and eye irritation. It can also promote
                                                                                allergic reactions with the skin. Fortunately it is
                                                                                not considered a carcinogen.
                                                                                Another fortunate thing is the awful smell which gives
                                                                                it away. If you smell something really rotten, like
                                                                                decaying onions and garlic, coming from your
                                                                                equipment, it is best to leave the area immediately,
                                                                                opening some windows on the way out. Allow the
                                                                                selenium dioxide vapours to dissipate for several days
                                                                                before you go back - you will not want to go back very
                                                                                soon anyway!)

                                                                                Get a full wave bridge or individual diodes and
                                                                                construct a bridge recifier. Hide it and just make it
                                                                                look like the Selenium Retifier bridge is really used
                                                                                while it isn't for safety's sake.

                                                                                Cordially,
                                                                                Gerry


                                                                                --- Yardbird Trains <danrbush@...> wrote:

                                                                                > Wonder if anyone can help me on this...
                                                                                > My layout is going together fine, with about 110 ft.
                                                                                > of brass 100 track on plywood base, (making it as
                                                                                > close to the way my dad did his in the early 50's).
                                                                                > I'm planning on screen and plaster like Dad's, and
                                                                                > will even make the home-made trees like he did. I
                                                                                > have the blocks wired for sections of track, but
                                                                                > plan on most of the switches being hand pulled.
                                                                                > Here's the kicker - I have the original AC American
                                                                                > Flyer transformer that dad had on his layout -
                                                                                > rounded with green & red lights on it - and also the
                                                                                > rectifier that he used. The rectifier has the
                                                                                > round plates with leads coming out in different
                                                                                > places in the setup. Does anyone have a wiring
                                                                                > diagram of what goes where to produce the DC out of
                                                                                > these? I remember using this as a boy (XXyrs ago),
                                                                                > but can't remember how it was wired. I'm determined
                                                                                > to use this as my main power source as dad did. It
                                                                                > was a bit overkill for his little JE Yardbird loco,
                                                                                > but my big Varneys should love it.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Thanks for any help or thoughts on this.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > "Yardy"


                                                                                __________________________________________________
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                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 796 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 1/17/2006
                                                                                Subject: Re: Vintage Electrical Help
                                                                                Gerry,
                                                                                Well, you've given me a good scare there.  You learn something every day!  I've been involved in small electrical work much of my life but never knew that info.  Seeing that this rectifier is about 50 years old, it is probably an accident waiting to happen.  As much as I hate to deviate from my original goal, I guess I'd better replace it.  At least I'll still have the transformer Dad used. 
                                                                                 
                                                                                As a prototype for our railroad, I'm using an area in western Missouri close to KC where my dad and his dad were born.  My grandpa grew up right next to the SF tracks in Courtney, MO, close to the MO river.  One of his uncles worked the small yard next to their house (and was also killed by a steamer right there).  The line proceeded on from Courtney to Atherton before crossing the river and proceeding on north towards Dean Lake, a little RR town where my Grandmother was born and raised.  I've named our line, "Courtney Atherton RR", and it will be a takeoff of the SF between Courtney and Dean Lake.  Of course, Owl Hill which is right behind Great Grandpa's old general store will have to begin turning out some coal, and Dean Lake will take on a new natural product in logging. 
                                                                                I've been working on this for 2 years now, but must admit that it doesn't get near enough of my attention. 
                                                                                 
                                                                                Thanks again for the info Gerry, even if it's not what I really wanted to hear!
                                                                                 
                                                                                Yardy

                                                                                 
                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                From: Gerry D
                                                                                Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 6:11 PM
                                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Vintage Electrical Help

                                                                                Yardy,
                                                                                That's a great plan, but seriously, if that old
                                                                                selenium recifier does experience a short and fails,
                                                                                it can emit rather noxious fumes. Please reconsider.

                                                                                For another opinion, see these links:

                                                                                http://hhscott.com/cc/rectifiers.htm

                                                                                ehs.uc.edu/Advisories/Advisory_9_0.PDF

                                                                                www.bvws.org.uk/405alive/tech/safety.html

                                                                                (In the part about Selenium Rectifiers they say:
                                                                                Selenium dioxide is the major compound produced when a
                                                                                selenium rectifier is overheated.  It can cause severe
                                                                                burns to the mucous membranes and severe respiratory
                                                                                tract, skin, and eye irritation.  It can also promote
                                                                                allergic reactions with the skin.  Fortunately it is
                                                                                not considered a carcinogen.
                                                                                Another fortunate thing is the awful smell which gives
                                                                                it away.  If you smell something really rotten, like
                                                                                decaying onions and garlic, coming from your
                                                                                equipment, it is best to leave the area immediately,
                                                                                opening some windows on the way out.  Allow the
                                                                                selenium dioxide vapours to dissipate for several days
                                                                                before you go back - you will not want to go back very
                                                                                soon anyway!)

                                                                                Get a full wave bridge or individual diodes and
                                                                                construct a bridge recifier. Hide it and just make it
                                                                                look like the Selenium Retifier bridge is really used
                                                                                while it isn't for safety's sake.

                                                                                Cordially,
                                                                                Gerry


                                                                                --- Yardbird Trains <danrbush@...> wrote:

                                                                                > Wonder if anyone can help me on this...
                                                                                > My layout is going together fine, with about 110 ft.
                                                                                > of brass 100 track on plywood base, (making it as
                                                                                > close to the way my dad did his in the early 50's).
                                                                                > I'm planning on screen and plaster like Dad's, and
                                                                                > will even make the home-made trees like he did.  I
                                                                                > have the blocks wired for sections of track, but
                                                                                > plan on most of the switches being hand pulled.
                                                                                > Here's the kicker -  I have the original AC American
                                                                                > Flyer transformer that dad had on his layout -
                                                                                > rounded with green & red lights on it - and also the
                                                                                > rectifier that he used.   The rectifier has the
                                                                                > round plates with leads coming out in different
                                                                                > places in the setup.  Does anyone have a wiring
                                                                                > diagram of what goes where to produce the DC out of
                                                                                > these?  I remember using this as a boy (XXyrs ago),
                                                                                > but can't remember how it was wired.  I'm determined
                                                                                > to use this as my main power source as dad did.  It
                                                                                > was a bit overkill for his little JE Yardbird loco,
                                                                                > but my big Varneys should love it. 
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Thanks for any help or thoughts on this.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > "Yardy"


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                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 797 From: Frank Date: 1/17/2006
                                                                                Subject: The Penn Line Link
                                                                                This link will bring you to an aol group where the photo albums will
                                                                                show 4 different albums. The first steam locomotives brings the Alantic
                                                                                E6,Consolidation H8,Pacific K4, Mikado L1,and Decapod I1 before you.
                                                                                All Penn Line Locomotives. The next album is of Cary Conversions that
                                                                                were made to use Penn Line drives. The next two are of freight and
                                                                                nonrevenue cars. A 5th will be added for Passenger cars.
                                                                                frank O toptrain
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 798 From: Gerry D Date: 1/18/2006
                                                                                Subject: Re: Vintage Electrical Help
                                                                                Yardy,
                                                                                I don't want to scare you. Just caution you.
                                                                                With the size of full wave bridge plastic packs, you
                                                                                still could wire up the old selenium stack with
                                                                                "hollow" wires if you need it for looks and hide the
                                                                                "real" rectifier out of view.

                                                                                I've blown up one or two in my day. They were not as
                                                                                bad as stated. But I guess the nastieness on one
                                                                                depends on one's tollerance to chemicals etc...

                                                                                Cordially,
                                                                                Gerry

                                                                                PS: a hollow wire is two pieces of solid wire soldered
                                                                                to the connections while a piece of insulation,
                                                                                stripped from a wire, is sliped over the ends to make
                                                                                it look like a solid connection between the two
                                                                                points. I used to use that trick to "bug" electronic
                                                                                equipment for people I was training.

                                                                                _______________________________________________________________

                                                                                --- Yardbird Trains <danrbush@...> wrote:

                                                                                > Gerry,
                                                                                > Well, you've given me a good scare there. You learn
                                                                                > something every day! I've been involved in small
                                                                                > electrical work much of my life but never knew that
                                                                                > info. Seeing that this rectifier is about 50 years
                                                                                > old, it is probably an accident waiting to happen.
                                                                                > As much as I hate to deviate from my original goal,
                                                                                > I guess I'd better replace it. At least I'll still
                                                                                > have the transformer Dad used.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > As a prototype for our railroad, I'm using an area
                                                                                > in western Missouri close to KC where my dad and his
                                                                                > dad were born. My grandpa grew up right next to the
                                                                                > SF tracks in Courtney, MO, close to the MO river.
                                                                                > One of his uncles worked the small yard next to
                                                                                > their house (and was also killed by a steamer right
                                                                                > there). The line proceeded on from Courtney to
                                                                                > Atherton before crossing the river and proceeding on
                                                                                > north towards Dean Lake, a little RR town where my
                                                                                > Grandmother was born and raised. I've named our
                                                                                > line, "Courtney Atherton RR", and it will be a
                                                                                > takeoff of the SF between Courtney and Dean Lake.
                                                                                > Of course, Owl Hill which is right behind Great
                                                                                > Grandpa's old general store will have to begin
                                                                                > turning out some coal, and Dean Lake will take on a
                                                                                > new natural product in logging.
                                                                                > I've been working on this for 2 years now, but must
                                                                                > admit that it doesn't get near enough of my
                                                                                > attention.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Thanks again for the info Gerry, even if it's not
                                                                                > what I really wanted to hear!
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Yardy
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                > From: Gerry D
                                                                                > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                > Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 6:11 PM
                                                                                > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Vintage Electrical Help
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Yardy,
                                                                                > That's a great plan, but seriously, if that old
                                                                                > selenium recifier does experience a short and
                                                                                > fails,
                                                                                > it can emit rather noxious fumes. Please
                                                                                > reconsider.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > For another opinion, see these links:
                                                                                >
                                                                                > http://hhscott.com/cc/rectifiers.htm
                                                                                >
                                                                                > ehs.uc.edu/Advisories/Advisory_9_0.PDF
                                                                                >
                                                                                > www.bvws.org.uk/405alive/tech/safety.html
                                                                                >
                                                                                > (In the part about Selenium Rectifiers they say:
                                                                                > Selenium dioxide is the major compound produced
                                                                                > when a
                                                                                > selenium rectifier is overheated. It can cause
                                                                                > severe
                                                                                > burns to the mucous membranes and severe
                                                                                > respiratory
                                                                                > tract, skin, and eye irritation. It can also
                                                                                > promote
                                                                                > allergic reactions with the skin. Fortunately it
                                                                                > is
                                                                                > not considered a carcinogen.
                                                                                > Another fortunate thing is the awful smell which
                                                                                > gives
                                                                                > it away. If you smell something really rotten,
                                                                                > like
                                                                                > decaying onions and garlic, coming from your
                                                                                > equipment, it is best to leave the area
                                                                                > immediately,
                                                                                > opening some windows on the way out. Allow the
                                                                                > selenium dioxide vapours to dissipate for several
                                                                                > days
                                                                                > before you go back - you will not want to go back
                                                                                > very
                                                                                > soon anyway!)
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Get a full wave bridge or individual diodes and
                                                                                > construct a bridge recifier. Hide it and just make
                                                                                > it
                                                                                > look like the Selenium Retifier bridge is really
                                                                                > used
                                                                                > while it isn't for safety's sake.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Cordially,
                                                                                > Gerry
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > --- Yardbird Trains <danrbush@...> wrote:
                                                                                >
                                                                                > > Wonder if anyone can help me on this...
                                                                                > > My layout is going together fine, with about 110
                                                                                > ft.
                                                                                > > of brass 100 track on plywood base, (making it
                                                                                > as
                                                                                > > close to the way my dad did his in the early
                                                                                > 50's).
                                                                                > > I'm planning on screen and plaster like Dad's,
                                                                                > and
                                                                                > > will even make the home-made trees like he did.
                                                                                > I
                                                                                > > have the blocks wired for sections of track, but
                                                                                > > plan on most of the switches being hand pulled.
                                                                                > > Here's the kicker - I have the original AC
                                                                                > American
                                                                                > > Flyer transformer that dad had on his layout -
                                                                                > > rounded with green & red lights on it - and also
                                                                                > the
                                                                                > > rectifier that he used. The rectifier has the
                                                                                > > round plates with leads coming out in different
                                                                                > > places in the setup. Does anyone have a wiring
                                                                                > > diagram of what goes where to produce the DC out
                                                                                > of
                                                                                > > these? I remember using this as a boy (XXyrs
                                                                                > ago),
                                                                                > > but can't remember how it was wired. I'm
                                                                                > determined
                                                                                > > to use this as my main power source as dad did.
                                                                                > It
                                                                                > > was a bit overkill for his little JE Yardbird
                                                                                > loco,
                                                                                > > but my big Varneys should love it.
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > Thanks for any help or thoughts on this.
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > "Yardy"
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
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                                                                                > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an
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                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 799 From: Frank Date: 1/18/2006
                                                                                Subject: Penn line Diedels.
                                                                                I'm not a expert on these diesels. I have seen F units,I think F7s.
                                                                                GP7s. And of course the Mighty Midgit. I have the Wabash set, not
                                                                                boxed. Just the engine and cars. I touched up the white and it shows.
                                                                                I'll never make a living being a restorer of trains. The Geep body
                                                                                seams to be a Athern or Globe body. The caboose defenitly is related to
                                                                                the Varney eastern caboose. Their box cars and gondolas are mantua
                                                                                except for the difference in the frame. On a PRR gondola I aquired with
                                                                                a bad frame, a mantua frame replaced it exactly. Their flat cars are of
                                                                                a die cast type and seam unique to Penn Line. The Geep drive has a die
                                                                                cast frame. A old Athern type die cast motor sits in the frame on a
                                                                                angle output shaft pointing toward the rear truck. It is the only
                                                                                powered truck. The front truck is used just for electrical pickup. A
                                                                                spring is used to transfer power between shafts. On mine the motor was
                                                                                bad and the front truck missing. I used a Athern GP drive to replace
                                                                                the original just to get it running. It fits perfectly! I will be
                                                                                putting a set of Athern Hand rails on the Geep.
                                                                                Frank O - toptrain
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 800 From: don.dellmann Date: 1/18/2006
                                                                                Subject: Re: Penn line Diedels.
                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                From: Frank <toptrain1@...>
                                                                                To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 3:39 PM
                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] Penn line Diedels.


                                                                                > I'm not a expert on these diesels. I have seen F units,I think F7s.
                                                                                > GP7s. And of course the Mighty Midgit. I have the Wabash set, not
                                                                                > boxed. Just the engine and cars. I touched up the white and it shows.
                                                                                > I'll never make a living being a restorer of trains. The Geep body
                                                                                > seams to be a Athern or Globe body. The caboose defenitly is related to
                                                                                > the Varney eastern caboose. Their box cars and gondolas are mantua
                                                                                > except for the difference in the frame. On a PRR gondola I aquired with
                                                                                > a bad frame, a mantua frame replaced it exactly. Their flat cars are of
                                                                                > a die cast type and seam unique to Penn Line. The Geep drive has a die
                                                                                > cast frame. A old Athern type die cast motor sits in the frame on a
                                                                                > angle output shaft pointing toward the rear truck. It is the only
                                                                                > powered truck. The front truck is used just for electrical pickup. A
                                                                                > spring is used to transfer power between shafts. On mine the motor was
                                                                                > bad and the front truck missing. I used a Athern GP drive to replace
                                                                                > the original just to get it running. It fits perfectly! I will be
                                                                                > putting a set of Athern Hand rails on the Geep.
                                                                                > Frank O - toptrain

                                                                                As far as I can tell, the Penn Line diesels did use Athearn shells, BUT, the
                                                                                windshields on the F-7 were larger!

                                                                                The one I had used a Pittman type motor in the drive you describe.

                                                                                The ones to stay away from are the last units made ca. 1961 before Penn-Line
                                                                                went under, a victim of the "slot car craze". These are the "8 wheel drive"
                                                                                units. They mounted the motor to the truck, ala Mantua/Tyco, but instead of
                                                                                screwing it into the body like Tyco did, the truck was mounted to a brass
                                                                                bracket that snapped onto the step castings on the F unit shell. First time
                                                                                you tried to pull any load, the forces would shear the steps off the shell,
                                                                                leaving the power truck falling free from the unit!

                                                                                Don

                                                                                don.dellmann@...
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                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 801 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 1/19/2006
                                                                                Subject: help with J.English 4-6-2
                                                                                Hello to everyone, and also a welcome to Frank, I really enjoy your
                                                                                posts and am very impressed with the photos in the links you provided.
                                                                                My question is this, I found a hulk of a J. English 4-6-2. Everything
                                                                                is there except the side rods main rods, and the valve gear, plus all
                                                                                the screws for the side and main rods. I have been checking the Bowser
                                                                                site and the NYC K-11 looks real close, will the parts for the running
                                                                                gear fit the loco I have? I would really like to get this one up and
                                                                                running.
                                                                                Thanks
                                                                                Chuck aka gramps
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 802 From: Roger Aultman Date: 1/19/2006
                                                                                Subject: Re: help with J.English 4-6-2
                                                                                I have a John English 0-4-0 that the siderods had disintegrated, I wrote
                                                                                Bowser and they said those from their 0-4-0 would not fit. You could
                                                                                try eBay, whom has some partial Pacifics at times. Probably the most
                                                                                likely source be would to have some made up, or make them up.
                                                                                Roger Aultman




                                                                                Chuck Svihlik wrote:
                                                                                > Hello to everyone, and also a welcome to Frank, I really enjoy your
                                                                                > posts and am very impressed with the photos in the links you provided.
                                                                                > My question is this, I found a hulk of a J. English 4-6-2. Everything
                                                                                > is there except the side rods main rods, and the valve gear, plus all
                                                                                > the screws for the side and main rods. I have been checking the Bowser
                                                                                > site and the NYC K-11 looks real close, will the parts for the running
                                                                                > gear fit the loco I have? I would really like to get this one up and
                                                                                > running.
                                                                                > Thanks
                                                                                > Chuck aka gramps
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >


                                                                                --
                                                                                http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

                                                                                Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 803 From: Frank Date: 1/19/2006
                                                                                Subject: Re: help with J.English 4-6-2
                                                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Roger Aultman <raul@n...> wrote:
                                                                                > Hello! frank here. English 0-4-0s side rods if you measure center
                                                                                to center is very close if not 1" (one inch). Varney little joe is
                                                                                also close to 1". Mantua 0-4-0t is also 1". Maybe if you have one of
                                                                                them you can try their side rods on the English model. Bowser makes
                                                                                #8711 and #8712 that are 1.005" c-to-c. For the English pacific, I
                                                                                don't have one to measure. The side rod measurement is the same as
                                                                                center to center on the drivers.
                                                                                Frank O toptrain
                                                                                > I have a John English 0-4-0 that the siderods had disintegrated, I
                                                                                wrote
                                                                                > Bowser and they said those from their 0-4-0 would not fit. You
                                                                                could
                                                                                > try eBay, whom has some partial Pacifics at times. Probably the
                                                                                most
                                                                                > likely source be would to have some made up, or make them up.
                                                                                > Roger Aultman
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Chuck Svihlik wrote:
                                                                                > > Hello to everyone, and also a welcome to Frank, I really enjoy
                                                                                your
                                                                                > > posts and am very impressed with the photos in the links you
                                                                                provided.
                                                                                > > My question is this, I found a hulk of a J. English 4-6-2.
                                                                                Everything
                                                                                > > is there except the side rods main rods, and the valve gear, plus
                                                                                all
                                                                                > > the screws for the side and main rods. I have been checking the
                                                                                Bowser
                                                                                > > site and the NYC K-11 looks real close, will the parts for the
                                                                                running
                                                                                > > gear fit the loco I have? I would really like to get this one up
                                                                                and
                                                                                > > running.
                                                                                > > Thanks
                                                                                > > Chuck aka gramps
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > --
                                                                                > http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                                                >
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 804 From: Frank Date: 1/19/2006
                                                                                Subject: english 0-4-0 side rod
                                                                                to add to my reply. Bowser has remade the varney little joe useing the
                                                                                original varney molds. The side rode is #70232. Model power makes and
                                                                                sells the mantua parts. So if one works you have a source.
                                                                                frank o toptrain
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 805 From: Frank Date: 1/19/2006
                                                                                Subject: Re: Penn line Diedels.
                                                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...>
                                                                                wrote:
                                                                                > DON. in my photos is a photo of the penn line GP7 drive.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                > From: Frank <toptrain1@a...>
                                                                                > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                > Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 3:39 PM
                                                                                > Subject: [vintageHO] Penn line Diedels.
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                > > I'm not a expert on these diesels. I have seen F units,I think
                                                                                F7s.
                                                                                > > GP7s. And of course the Mighty Midgit. I have the Wabash set, not
                                                                                > > boxed. Just the engine and cars. I touched up the white and it
                                                                                shows.
                                                                                > > I'll never make a living being a restorer of trains. The Geep body
                                                                                > > seams to be a Athern or Globe body. The caboose defenitly is
                                                                                related to
                                                                                > > the Varney eastern caboose. Their box cars and gondolas are mantua
                                                                                > > except for the difference in the frame. On a PRR gondola I
                                                                                aquired with
                                                                                > > a bad frame, a mantua frame replaced it exactly. Their flat cars
                                                                                are of
                                                                                > > a die cast type and seam unique to Penn Line. The Geep drive has
                                                                                a die
                                                                                > > cast frame. A old Athern type die cast motor sits in the frame on
                                                                                a
                                                                                > > angle output shaft pointing toward the rear truck. It is the only
                                                                                > > powered truck. The front truck is used just for electrical
                                                                                pickup. A
                                                                                > > spring is used to transfer power between shafts. On mine the
                                                                                motor was
                                                                                > > bad and the front truck missing. I used a Athern GP drive to
                                                                                replace
                                                                                > > the original just to get it running. It fits perfectly! I will be
                                                                                > > putting a set of Athern Hand rails on the Geep.
                                                                                > > Frank O - toptrain
                                                                                >
                                                                                > As far as I can tell, the Penn Line diesels did use Athearn shells,
                                                                                BUT, the
                                                                                > windshields on the F-7 were larger!
                                                                                >
                                                                                > The one I had used a Pittman type motor in the drive you describe.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > The ones to stay away from are the last units made ca. 1961 before
                                                                                Penn-Line
                                                                                > went under, a victim of the "slot car craze". These are the "8
                                                                                wheel drive"
                                                                                > units. They mounted the motor to the truck, ala Mantua/Tyco, but
                                                                                instead of
                                                                                > screwing it into the body like Tyco did, the truck was mounted to a
                                                                                brass
                                                                                > bracket that snapped onto the step castings on the F unit shell.
                                                                                First time
                                                                                > you tried to pull any load, the forces would shear the steps off
                                                                                the shell,
                                                                                > leaving the power truck falling free from the unit!
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Don
                                                                                >
                                                                                > don.dellmann@p...
                                                                                > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                > co-moderator: SCENERY@Y...
                                                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                >
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 806 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 1/19/2006
                                                                                Subject: Re: help with J.English 4-6-2
                                                                                Hi Chuck,
                                                                                I've got the parts for your JE Pacific.  I'll get with you on them tomorrow if it's ok.  I'm in the process of putting together a valve gear kit for the JE Pacifics and Mikes as well.  Should have them done very soon.
                                                                                 
                                                                                Yardy
                                                                                 
                                                                                ----- Original Message ----
                                                                                Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 5:18 PM
                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] help with J.English 4-6-2

                                                                                Hello to everyone, and also a welcome to Frank, I really enjoy your
                                                                                posts and am very impressed with the photos in the links you provided.
                                                                                My question is this, I found a hulk of a J. English 4-6-2. Everything
                                                                                is there except the side rods main rods, and the valve gear, plus all
                                                                                the screws for the side and main rods. I have been checking the Bowser
                                                                                site and the NYC K-11 looks real close, will the parts for the running
                                                                                gear fit the loco I have? I would really like to get this one up and
                                                                                running.
                                                                                Thanks
                                                                                Chuck aka gramps




                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 807 From: don.dellmann Date: 1/20/2006
                                                                                Subject: Re: Penn line Diedels.
                                                                                That's what my F-7 looked like, except for the motor. That's definitely an
                                                                                Athearn motor, same one used on the :Hi-Fi" rubber band drives. Mine was
                                                                                more of a "pittman" style though, (or Varney or Mantua or whatever).

                                                                                Unfortunately the unit went "the way of all flesh" many years ago so I can't
                                                                                post a pic.

                                                                                Don

                                                                                don.dellmann@...
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                                                                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO


                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                From: Frank <toptrain1@...>
                                                                                To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 8:25 PM
                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Penn line Diedels.


                                                                                > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...>
                                                                                > wrote:
                                                                                > > DON. in my photos is a photo of the penn line GP7 drive.
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                > > From: Frank <toptrain1@a...>
                                                                                > > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                > > Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 3:39 PM
                                                                                > > Subject: [vintageHO] Penn line Diedels.
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > > I'm not a expert on these diesels. I have seen F units,I think
                                                                                > F7s.
                                                                                > > > GP7s. And of course the Mighty Midgit. I have the Wabash set, not
                                                                                > > > boxed. Just the engine and cars. I touched up the white and it
                                                                                > shows.
                                                                                > > > I'll never make a living being a restorer of trains. The Geep body
                                                                                > > > seams to be a Athern or Globe body. The caboose defenitly is
                                                                                > related to
                                                                                > > > the Varney eastern caboose. Their box cars and gondolas are mantua
                                                                                > > > except for the difference in the frame. On a PRR gondola I
                                                                                > aquired with
                                                                                > > > a bad frame, a mantua frame replaced it exactly. Their flat cars
                                                                                > are of
                                                                                > > > a die cast type and seam unique to Penn Line. The Geep drive has
                                                                                > a die
                                                                                > > > cast frame. A old Athern type die cast motor sits in the frame on
                                                                                > a
                                                                                > > > angle output shaft pointing toward the rear truck. It is the only
                                                                                > > > powered truck. The front truck is used just for electrical
                                                                                > pickup. A
                                                                                > > > spring is used to transfer power between shafts. On mine the
                                                                                > motor was
                                                                                > > > bad and the front truck missing. I used a Athern GP drive to
                                                                                > replace
                                                                                > > > the original just to get it running. It fits perfectly! I will be
                                                                                > > > putting a set of Athern Hand rails on the Geep.
                                                                                > > > Frank O - toptrain
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > As far as I can tell, the Penn Line diesels did use Athearn shells,
                                                                                > BUT, the
                                                                                > > windshields on the F-7 were larger!
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > The one I had used a Pittman type motor in the drive you describe.
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > The ones to stay away from are the last units made ca. 1961 before
                                                                                > Penn-Line
                                                                                > > went under, a victim of the "slot car craze". These are the "8
                                                                                > wheel drive"
                                                                                > > units. They mounted the motor to the truck, ala Mantua/Tyco, but
                                                                                > instead of
                                                                                > > screwing it into the body like Tyco did, the truck was mounted to a
                                                                                > brass
                                                                                > > bracket that snapped onto the step castings on the F unit shell.
                                                                                > First time
                                                                                > > you tried to pull any load, the forces would shear the steps off
                                                                                > the shell,
                                                                                > > leaving the power truck falling free from the unit!
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > Don
                                                                                > >
                                                                                > > don.dellmann@p...
                                                                                > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                > > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                > > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                > > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                > > co-moderator: SCENERY@Y...
                                                                                > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                > >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
                                                                                >
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                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 808 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 1/20/2006
                                                                                Subject: up date
                                                                                I wrote to Bowser regarding parts for my J.E. 4-6-2 and here's the reply

                                                                                sorry do not have any idea if our parts will fit.


                                                                                Thank you
                                                                                Lee English
                                                                                Bowser Mfg. - Stewart Hobbies
                                                                                PO Box 322
                                                                                Montoursville PA 17754
                                                                                800-327-5126

                                                                                I have to thank everyone that replied to my question, and once again
                                                                                Yardy has come to my rescue. I'm always amazed at how he can come up
                                                                                with the parts I need. Even if the parts from Bowser would have worked
                                                                                I would still 110% rather get them from Yardbird.My Varney 2-8-4 is
                                                                                almost ready for some photos, I just found the tender for it, so it's
                                                                                getting closer.Makes me wonder how the new stuff will hold up after 50+
                                                                                years.It's snowing big time right now with 3-6" possible and I won't be
                                                                                surprised if we lose our internet service for a while.
                                                                                Chuck (gramps)
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 809 From: Jim Snyder Date: 1/21/2006
                                                                                Subject: Old stuff...
                                                                                Greetings!

                                                                                I am the local "train nut" and, as such, I am the resident expert on everything
                                                                                'trains'. In reality, I noodle around in On3, On30 and HO- even some 'N'. I
                                                                                joined the group becuse, well, I have been a train guy since I was 5- about 45
                                                                                years. and am sad to say I recognize a lot of the 'Old Stuff'. but receive just
                                                                                about everyone within a small radius' old trains... unless they're Lionel. of
                                                                                course... because everybody knows that old Lionel trains are worth thousands
                                                                                and thousands of dollars. But the rest comes to me. Th latest: a
                                                                                "Chattanooga Choo Choo" set, complete with power pack. Worth about six
                                                                                bucks, I'd guess.

                                                                                But not long ago, I received a boxful of trains. I didn't even look at 'em for a
                                                                                couple months. But I opened the box last week and found that I have what
                                                                                looks to be a "history of HO scale"! Also, some is hand-lettered for the fictional
                                                                                "Northern Valley Railroad"... As I recall, there was a column or otherwise
                                                                                monthly article in the now-defunct, "Model trains"- a Kalmbach offering for
                                                                                less-accomplished modelers, that bit the dust in 1961 or so. Maybe it was
                                                                                another rag, but I do recall the Northern Valley as being this author's railroad.

                                                                                Some is very crude; all have Mantua couplers. Some, I would run behind my
                                                                                Challenger Models 2-10-2. There are some downright beautiful- reefers and
                                                                                some others that I've always liked- Ulrich metal cars, Ambroid & Silver Streak
                                                                                kits, etc. But there are paper hoppers (C. C. C. & St. L.) and lots of tin/wood
                                                                                cars that I just can't place. There is (in pieces) a working crane car of mostly
                                                                                wood.. The "jewel" is a Mantua 4-6-2- the Reading version. it's all there and
                                                                                appears to have a 6v. motor! Some castings are crumbling. But it's the cars
                                                                                that are interesting. There are about 40 of 'em. I will start posting photos
                                                                                soon.

                                                                                I have no idea what I want to do with these things; I considered giving 'em to
                                                                                the museum- but I'm certain there are zillions just like 'em... The 'Northern
                                                                                Valley' intrigues me. though. There are several that have oddball couplers.

                                                                                Anyway, Take a look in 'Photos'. There'll be more shortly.
                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 810 From: Don Riley Date: 1/21/2006
                                                                                Subject: Re: Old stuff...
                                                                                Nice cars!
                                                                                What is up with that looonnnngggg combo hack?
                                                                                Same with the gon with no ends?
                                                                                Rest are cool too!
                                                                                 
                                                                                Cool that you have such a veriety! The rest of us have to puy them on ebay lol. I too have a collection of models. Mostly Athearn. I really like Athearn! MDC rules too and I have quite a few of those! My coolest is an MDC 2-6-2!
                                                                                 
                                                                                Steamengine 4449

                                                                                Jim Snyder <joegideon@...> wrote:
                                                                                Greetings! 

                                                                                I am the local "train nut" and, as such, I am the resident expert on everything
                                                                                'trains'.  In reality, I noodle around in On3, On30  and HO-  even some 'N'.  I
                                                                                joined the group becuse, well, I have been a train guy since I was 5- about 45
                                                                                years. and am sad to say I recognize a lot of the 'Old Stuff'.  but receive just
                                                                                about everyone within a small radius' old trains... unless they're Lionel. of
                                                                                course... because everybody knows that old Lionel trains are worth thousands
                                                                                and thousands of dollars.  But the rest comes to me.  Th latest: a
                                                                                "Chattanooga Choo Choo" set, complete with power pack.  Worth about six
                                                                                bucks, I'd guess. 

                                                                                But not long ago, I received a boxful of trains.  I didn't even look at 'em for a
                                                                                couple months.  But I opened the box last week and found that I have what
                                                                                looks to be a "history of HO scale"!  Also, some is hand-lettered for the fictional
                                                                                "Northern Valley Railroad"...  As I recall, there was a column or otherwise
                                                                                monthly article in the now-defunct, "Model trains"- a Kalmbach offering for
                                                                                less-accomplished modelers, that bit the dust in 1961 or so.  Maybe it was
                                                                                another rag, but I do recall the Northern Valley as being this author's railroad.

                                                                                Some is very crude; all have Mantua couplers.  Some, I would run behind my
                                                                                Challenger Models 2-10-2.  There are some downright beautiful-  reefers and
                                                                                some others that I've always liked- Ulrich metal cars, Ambroid & Silver Streak
                                                                                kits, etc.  But there are paper hoppers (C. C. C. & St. L.) and lots of tin/wood
                                                                                cars that I just can't place.  There is (in pieces) a working crane car of mostly
                                                                                wood..  The "jewel" is a Mantua 4-6-2- the Reading version.  it's all there and
                                                                                appears to have a 6v. motor!  Some castings are crumbling.  But it's the cars
                                                                                that are interesting.  There are about 40 of 'em.  I will start posting photos
                                                                                soon.

                                                                                I have no idea what I want to do with these things; I considered giving 'em to
                                                                                the museum- but I'm certain there are zillions just like 'em... The 'Northern
                                                                                Valley' intrigues me. though.  There are several that have oddball couplers.

                                                                                Anyway, Take a look in 'Photos'.  There'll be more shortly.


                                                                                Yahoo! Photos
                                                                                Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP.

                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 811 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/21/2006
                                                                                Subject: New additions to the roster
                                                                                Attachments :
                                                                                  Added two more Varney cars to the roster this week. There's a seller on
                                                                                  eBay,
                                                                                  who goes by the name "lexiustruck", I've dealt with several times, always
                                                                                  seems to have nice pieces.

                                                                                  Don

                                                                                  don.dellmann@...
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                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 812 From: erieberk Date: 1/21/2006
                                                                                  Subject: Re: Old stuff...
                                                                                  Hi Jim, Nice surprise box of old HO. That pre-War Mantua Pacific
                                                                                  was a real nice find -- you don't see them around much anymore. I
                                                                                  recognize most of the cars, but with a few it would take looking at
                                                                                  the construction up close to really I.D. them properly. Are you
                                                                                  looking to have them identified? Certainly some interesting stuff
                                                                                  there. I like the Silver Streak and Ulrich cars myself; they build
                                                                                  up nicely. I could guess those other oddball couplers might possibly
                                                                                  be "Cup-Eze" couplers put out by IMP (International Model Products)
                                                                                  but would have to see them. They did not become as popular as the
                                                                                  Mantua couplers. Ray W.
                                                                                  \
                                                                                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Snyder" <joegideon@y...> wrote:
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Greetings!
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > I am the local "train nut" and, as such, I am the resident expert
                                                                                  on everything
                                                                                  > 'trains'. In reality, I noodle around in On3, On30 and HO- even
                                                                                  some 'N'. I
                                                                                  > joined the group becuse, well, I have been a train guy since I was
                                                                                  5- about 45
                                                                                  > years. and am sad to say I recognize a lot of the 'Old Stuff'. but
                                                                                  receive just
                                                                                  > about everyone within a small radius' old trains... unless they're
                                                                                  Lionel. of
                                                                                  > course... because everybody knows that old Lionel trains are worth
                                                                                  thousands
                                                                                  > and thousands of dollars. But the rest comes to me. Th latest: a
                                                                                  > "Chattanooga Choo Choo" set, complete with power pack. Worth about
                                                                                  six
                                                                                  > bucks, I'd guess.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > But not long ago, I received a boxful of trains. I didn't even
                                                                                  look at 'em for a
                                                                                  > couple months. But I opened the box last week and found that I
                                                                                  have what
                                                                                  > looks to be a "history of HO scale"! Also, some is hand-lettered
                                                                                  for the fictional
                                                                                  > "Northern Valley Railroad"... As I recall, there was a column or
                                                                                  otherwise
                                                                                  > monthly article in the now-defunct, "Model trains"- a Kalmbach
                                                                                  offering for
                                                                                  > less-accomplished modelers, that bit the dust in 1961 or so. Maybe
                                                                                  it was
                                                                                  > another rag, but I do recall the Northern Valley as being this
                                                                                  author's railroad.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Some is very crude; all have Mantua couplers. Some, I would run
                                                                                  behind my
                                                                                  > Challenger Models 2-10-2. There are some downright beautiful-
                                                                                  reefers and
                                                                                  > some others that I've always liked- Ulrich metal cars, Ambroid &
                                                                                  Silver Streak
                                                                                  > kits, etc. But there are paper hoppers (C. C. C. & St. L.) and
                                                                                  lots of tin/wood
                                                                                  > cars that I just can't place. There is (in pieces) a working crane
                                                                                  car of mostly
                                                                                  > wood.. The "jewel" is a Mantua 4-6-2- the Reading version. it's
                                                                                  all there and
                                                                                  > appears to have a 6v. motor! Some castings are crumbling. But
                                                                                  it's the cars
                                                                                  > that are interesting. There are about 40 of 'em. I will start
                                                                                  posting photos
                                                                                  > soon.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > I have no idea what I want to do with these things; I considered
                                                                                  giving 'em to
                                                                                  > the museum- but I'm certain there are zillions just like 'em...
                                                                                  The 'Northern
                                                                                  > Valley' intrigues me. though. There are several that have oddball
                                                                                  couplers.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Anyway, Take a look in 'Photos'. There'll be more shortly.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 813 From: don.dellmann Date: 1/21/2006
                                                                                  Subject: Re: Old stuff...
                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                  From: Don Riley <steamengine4449us@...>
                                                                                  To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                  Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 12:08 PM
                                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Old stuff...


                                                                                  > Nice cars!
                                                                                  > What is up with that looonnnngggg combo hack?
                                                                                  > Same with the gon with no ends?
                                                                                  > Rest are cool too!
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Cool that you have such a veriety! The rest of us have to puy them on
                                                                                  ebay lol. I too have a collection of models. Mostly Athearn. I really like
                                                                                  Athearn! MDC rules too and I have quite a few of those! My coolest is an MDC
                                                                                  2-6-2!
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Steamengine 4449

                                                                                  If I may inteject, the gondolas with "no ends" are Silver Streak "Hart"
                                                                                  gondolas. Walthers still offers plastic versions as the "ballast car" in
                                                                                  their line (which is ex Train Miniature, nee Tru-Scale/silver streak).

                                                                                  The long Hack is a "drover's caboose" (It may be a Silver Streak too, I'm
                                                                                  not sure). Back in the days when cattle moved by train, it was the practice
                                                                                  of the "drover's" who drove the herds of cattle to the railhead to continue
                                                                                  on with them, seeing to their care, feeding and watering, to the ultimate
                                                                                  destination where the drover was responsible for actually selling the cattle
                                                                                  to the packing house. The drover's caboose was found at the end of every
                                                                                  stock train, which is where the drovers rode.

                                                                                  Don

                                                                                  don.dellmann@...
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                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 814 From: don.dellmann Date: 1/21/2006
                                                                                  Subject: Re: Old stuff...
                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                  From: Jim Snyder <joegideon@...>
                                                                                  To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                  Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 9:26 AM
                                                                                  Subject: [vintageHO] Old stuff...


                                                                                  > Greetings!
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > I am the local "train nut" and, as such, I am the resident expert on
                                                                                  everything
                                                                                  > 'trains'. In reality, I noodle around in On3, On30 and HO- even some
                                                                                  'N'. I
                                                                                  > joined the group becuse, well, I have been a train guy since I was 5-
                                                                                  about 45
                                                                                  > years. and am sad to say I recognize a lot of the 'Old Stuff'. but
                                                                                  receive just
                                                                                  > about everyone within a small radius' old trains... unless they're Lionel.
                                                                                  of
                                                                                  > course... because everybody knows that old Lionel trains are worth
                                                                                  thousands
                                                                                  > and thousands of dollars. But the rest comes to me. Th latest: a
                                                                                  > "Chattanooga Choo Choo" set, complete with power pack. Worth about six
                                                                                  > bucks, I'd guess.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > But not long ago, I received a boxful of trains. I didn't even look at
                                                                                  'em for a
                                                                                  > couple months. But I opened the box last week and found that I have what
                                                                                  > looks to be a "history of HO scale"! Also, some is hand-lettered for the
                                                                                  fictional
                                                                                  > "Northern Valley Railroad"... As I recall, there was a column or
                                                                                  otherwise
                                                                                  > monthly article in the now-defunct, "Model trains"- a Kalmbach offering
                                                                                  for
                                                                                  > less-accomplished modelers, that bit the dust in 1961 or so. Maybe it was
                                                                                  > another rag, but I do recall the Northern Valley as being this author's
                                                                                  railroad.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Some is very crude; all have Mantua couplers. Some, I would run behind my
                                                                                  > Challenger Models 2-10-2. There are some downright beautiful- reefers
                                                                                  and
                                                                                  > some others that I've always liked- Ulrich metal cars, Ambroid & Silver
                                                                                  Streak
                                                                                  > kits, etc. But there are paper hoppers (C. C. C. & St. L.) and lots of
                                                                                  tin/wood
                                                                                  > cars that I just can't place. There is (in pieces) a working crane car of
                                                                                  mostly
                                                                                  > wood.. The "jewel" is a Mantua 4-6-2- the Reading version. it's all
                                                                                  there and
                                                                                  > appears to have a 6v. motor! Some castings are crumbling. But it's the
                                                                                  cars
                                                                                  > that are interesting. There are about 40 of 'em. I will start posting
                                                                                  photos
                                                                                  > soon.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > I have no idea what I want to do with these things; I considered giving
                                                                                  'em to
                                                                                  > the museum- but I'm certain there are zillions just like 'em... The
                                                                                  'Northern
                                                                                  > Valley' intrigues me. though. There are several that have oddball
                                                                                  couplers.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Anyway, Take a look in 'Photos'. There'll be more shortly.

                                                                                  How come nobody ever gives ME boxes of stuff like that? :-( You have some
                                                                                  beautiful pieces there.

                                                                                  (I will admit though that some of my favorite cars, as mentioned in my
                                                                                  photos, are "scrap box" pieces that people gave me to restore).

                                                                                  As far as the "Northern Valley", wasn't Linn Westcott's home layout the
                                                                                  "Sunset Valley"?

                                                                                  Don

                                                                                  don.dellmann@...
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                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 816 From: Frank Date: 1/21/2006
                                                                                  Subject: photo album Frank O modified.
                                                                                  removed old wood cars. Added 8 old locomotives. Aristo Craft 2-8-0,
                                                                                  Ken Kidder Plantation 0-4-0t, Silvine B&O 0-4-0t, Mantua old brass &
                                                                                  cast 4-6-2, Lindast cast PA1s, Mantua Iron Horse 4-6-0, Mantua
                                                                                  Hotterville Cannonball, Mantua old cast & brass 0-4-0c.
                                                                                  Frank
                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 817 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/21/2006
                                                                                  Subject: Re: photo album Frank O modified.
                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                  From: Frank <toptrain1@...>
                                                                                  To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                  Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 1:46 PM
                                                                                  Subject: [vintageHO] photo album Frank O modified.


                                                                                  > removed old wood cars. Added 8 old locomotives. Aristo Craft 2-8-0,
                                                                                  > Ken Kidder Plantation 0-4-0t, Silvine B&O 0-4-0t, Mantua old brass &
                                                                                  > cast 4-6-2, Lindast cast PA1s, Mantua Iron Horse 4-6-0, Mantua
                                                                                  > Hotterville Cannonball, Mantua old cast & brass 0-4-0c.
                                                                                  > Frank

                                                                                  There really isn't a need to delete any photos.

                                                                                  What I WOULD ask people to do though is when they upload pics delete the
                                                                                  "full size" version. Most members can't see them anyway, and they're what
                                                                                  takes up space.

                                                                                  It will be a moot point when the new Yahoo photo system takes effect (it's
                                                                                  in about 3/4 of my groups already). Then the full size versions will be
                                                                                  deleted automatically.

                                                                                  Don

                                                                                  don.dellmann@...
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                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 818 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 1/21/2006
                                                                                  Subject: Re: photo album Frank O modified.
                                                                                  I had never realized that the Life/Like Tea Kettle was a coppy of the Silvine 0-4-0t.

                                                                                  Frank <toptrain1@...> wrote:
                                                                                  removed old wood cars. Added 8 old locomotives. Aristo Craft 2-8-0,
                                                                                  Ken Kidder Plantation 0-4-0t, Silvine B&O 0-4-0t, Mantua old brass &
                                                                                  cast 4-6-2, Lindast cast PA1s, Mantua Iron Horse 4-6-0, Mantua
                                                                                  Hotterville Cannonball, Mantua old cast & brass 0-4-0c.
                                                                                       Frank







                                                                                  Yahoo! Photos – Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover
                                                                                  Photo Books. You design it and we’ll bind it!
                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 819 From: erieberk Date: 1/21/2006
                                                                                  Subject: Re: Old stuff...
                                                                                  Would just like to add -- the Drovers Caboose was produced by
                                                                                  Ambroid. Ray W.
                                                                                  \
                                                                                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...>
                                                                                  wrote:
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                  > From: Don Riley <steamengine4449us@y...>
                                                                                  > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                  > Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 12:08 PM
                                                                                  > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Old stuff...
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > > Nice cars!
                                                                                  > > What is up with that looonnnngggg combo hack?
                                                                                  > > Same with the gon with no ends?
                                                                                  > > Rest are cool too!
                                                                                  > >
                                                                                  > > Cool that you have such a veriety! The rest of us have to puy
                                                                                  them on
                                                                                  > ebay lol. I too have a collection of models. Mostly Athearn. I
                                                                                  really like
                                                                                  > Athearn! MDC rules too and I have quite a few of those! My coolest
                                                                                  is an MDC
                                                                                  > 2-6-2!
                                                                                  > >
                                                                                  > > Steamengine 4449
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > If I may inteject, the gondolas with "no ends" are Silver
                                                                                  Streak "Hart"
                                                                                  > gondolas. Walthers still offers plastic versions as the "ballast
                                                                                  car" in
                                                                                  > their line (which is ex Train Miniature, nee Tru-Scale/silver
                                                                                  streak).
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > The long Hack is a "drover's caboose" (It may be a Silver Streak
                                                                                  too, I'm
                                                                                  > not sure). Back in the days when cattle moved by train, it was the
                                                                                  practice
                                                                                  > of the "drover's" who drove the herds of cattle to the railhead to
                                                                                  continue
                                                                                  > on with them, seeing to their care, feeding and watering, to the
                                                                                  ultimate
                                                                                  > destination where the drover was responsible for actually selling
                                                                                  the cattle
                                                                                  > to the packing house. The drover's caboose was found at the end of
                                                                                  every
                                                                                  > stock train, which is where the drovers rode.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Don
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > don.dellmann@p...
                                                                                  > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                  > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                  > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                  > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                  > co-moderator: SCENERY@Y...
                                                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 820 From: Garry Spear Date: 1/21/2006
                                                                                  Subject: Re: Old stuff...
                                                                                  Ok, after I go to Yahoo Groups an log in and get to the Photos section
                                                                                  how do I find/identify the Photo Album to Look in.

                                                                                  Garry

                                                                                  On 1/21/06, erieberk <erieberk@...> wrote:
                                                                                  > Would just like to add -- the Drovers Caboose was produced by
                                                                                  > Ambroid. Ray W.
                                                                                  > \
                                                                                  > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...>
                                                                                  > wrote:
                                                                                  > >
                                                                                  > >
                                                                                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                  > > From: Don Riley <steamengine4449us@y...>
                                                                                  > > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                  > > Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 12:08 PM
                                                                                  > > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Old stuff...
                                                                                  > >
                                                                                  > >
                                                                                  > > > Nice cars!
                                                                                  > > > What is up with that looonnnngggg combo hack?
                                                                                  > > > Same with the gon with no ends?
                                                                                  > > > Rest are cool too!
                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                  > > > Cool that you have such a veriety! The rest of us have to puy
                                                                                  > them on
                                                                                  > > ebay lol. I too have a collection of models. Mostly Athearn. I
                                                                                  > really like
                                                                                  > > Athearn! MDC rules too and I have quite a few of those! My coolest
                                                                                  > is an MDC
                                                                                  > > 2-6-2!
                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                  > > > Steamengine 4449
                                                                                  > >
                                                                                  > > If I may inteject, the gondolas with "no ends" are Silver
                                                                                  > Streak "Hart"
                                                                                  > > gondolas. Walthers still offers plastic versions as the "ballast
                                                                                  > car" in
                                                                                  > > their line (which is ex Train Miniature, nee Tru-Scale/silver
                                                                                  > streak).
                                                                                  > >
                                                                                  > > The long Hack is a "drover's caboose" (It may be a Silver Streak
                                                                                  > too, I'm
                                                                                  > > not sure). Back in the days when cattle moved by train, it was the
                                                                                  > practice
                                                                                  > > of the "drover's" who drove the herds of cattle to the railhead to
                                                                                  > continue
                                                                                  > > on with them, seeing to their care, feeding and watering, to the
                                                                                  > ultimate
                                                                                  > > destination where the drover was responsible for actually selling
                                                                                  > the cattle
                                                                                  > > to the packing house. The drover's caboose was found at the end of
                                                                                  > every
                                                                                  > > stock train, which is where the drovers rode.
                                                                                  > >
                                                                                  > > Don
                                                                                  > >
                                                                                  > > don.dellmann@p...
                                                                                  > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                  > > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                  > > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                  > > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                  > > co-moderator: SCENERY@Y...
                                                                                  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                  > >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 821 From: Frank Date: 1/21/2006
                                                                                  Subject: Re: photo album Frank O modified. RAY, YOUR RIGHT!
                                                                                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Ray Marinaccio <raymarinaccio@y...>
                                                                                  wrote:
                                                                                  > RAY : YOUR RIGHT ! THE SILVINE WAS A ALL DIE CAST MODEL. THE LIFE
                                                                                  LIKE WAS ALL JUNK.
                                                                                  > I had never realized that the Life/Like Tea Kettle was a coppy of
                                                                                  the Silvine 0-4-0t.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Frank <toptrain1@a...> wrote: removed old wood cars. Added 8 old
                                                                                  locomotives. Aristo Craft 2-8-0,
                                                                                  > Ken Kidder Plantation 0-4-0t, Silvine B&O 0-4-0t, Mantua old brass
                                                                                  &
                                                                                  > cast 4-6-2, Lindast cast PA1s, Mantua Iron Horse 4-6-0, Mantua
                                                                                  > Hotterville Cannonball, Mantua old cast & brass 0-4-0c.
                                                                                  > Frank
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > SPONSORED LINKS
                                                                                  > G scale train Ho scale model train Model train n
                                                                                  scale G scale model train Ho scale trains N scale trains
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > ---------------------------------
                                                                                  > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Visit your group "vintageHO" on the web.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                  > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                  Service.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > ---------------------------------
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > ---------------------------------
                                                                                  > Yahoo! Photos – Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover
                                                                                  > Photo Books. You design it and we'll bind it!
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 822 From: don.dellmann Date: 1/21/2006
                                                                                  Subject: Re: Old stuff...
                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                  From: Garry Spear <garrettspear@...>
                                                                                  To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                  Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 5:48 PM
                                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Old stuff...


                                                                                  > Ok, after I go to Yahoo Groups an log in and get to the Photos section
                                                                                  > how do I find/identify the Photo Album to Look in.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Garry

                                                                                  Jim's models, which I assume is which ones you mean, are in an album titled
                                                                                  "old HO"

                                                                                  Don
                                                                                  don.dellmann@...
                                                                                  http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                  moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                  moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                  moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                  co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 823 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 1/21/2006
                                                                                  Subject: Re: photo album Frank O modified. RAY, YOUR RIGHT!
                                                                                  I agree that the Tea Kettle is less than acceptible as built.
                                                                                   I have one that I remotored, regeared, put brass bearings on the axles and added more weight just to see what it would take to make it run well.
                                                                                   I wouldn't recomend doing it unless you had a lot of sentimental attachment to one.

                                                                                  Frank <toptrain1@...> wrote:
                                                                                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Ray Marinaccio <raymarinaccio@y...>
                                                                                  wrote:
                                                                                  >  RAY : YOUR RIGHT ! THE SILVINE WAS A ALL DIE CAST MODEL. THE LIFE
                                                                                  LIKE WAS ALL JUNK.
                                                                                  > I had never realized that the Life/Like Tea Kettle was a coppy of
                                                                                  the Silvine 0-4-0t.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Frank <toptrain1@a...> wrote:  removed old wood cars. Added 8 old
                                                                                  locomotives. Aristo Craft 2-8-0,
                                                                                  > Ken Kidder Plantation 0-4-0t, Silvine B&O 0-4-0t, Mantua old brass
                                                                                  &
                                                                                  > cast 4-6-2, Lindast cast PA1s, Mantua Iron Horse 4-6-0, Mantua
                                                                                  > Hotterville Cannonball, Mantua old cast & brass 0-4-0c.
                                                                                  >      Frank
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >   SPONSORED LINKS
                                                                                  >         G scale train   Ho scale model train   Model train n
                                                                                  scale     G scale model train   Ho scale trains   N scale trains
                                                                                  >    
                                                                                  > ---------------------------------
                                                                                  >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >    
                                                                                  >     Visit your group "vintageHO" on the web.
                                                                                  >    
                                                                                  >     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                  >  vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                  >    
                                                                                  >     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                  Service.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >    
                                                                                  > ---------------------------------
                                                                                  >  
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >            
                                                                                  > ---------------------------------
                                                                                  > Yahoo! Photos – Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover
                                                                                  >  Photo Books. You design it and we'll bind it!
                                                                                  >








                                                                                  Yahoo! Photos
                                                                                  Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP.

                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 824 From: don.dellmann Date: 1/22/2006
                                                                                  Subject: Re: photo album Frank O modified. RAY, YOUR RIGHT!
                                                                                  Speaking of the Kidder Plantation, there's one on eBay right now (ends
                                                                                  around noon CST today though)

                                                                                  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6029815837

                                                                                  Don

                                                                                  don.dellmann@...
                                                                                  http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                  moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                  moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                  moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                  co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO

                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                  From: Frank <toptrain1@...>
                                                                                  To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                  Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 6:27 PM
                                                                                  Subject: [vintageHO] Re: photo album Frank O modified. RAY, YOUR RIGHT!


                                                                                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Ray Marinaccio <raymarinaccio@y...>
                                                                                  wrote:
                                                                                  > RAY : YOUR RIGHT ! THE SILVINE WAS A ALL DIE CAST MODEL. THE LIFE
                                                                                  LIKE WAS ALL JUNK.
                                                                                  > I had never realized that the Life/Like Tea Kettle was a coppy of
                                                                                  the Silvine 0-4-0t.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Frank <toptrain1@a...> wrote: removed old wood cars. Added 8 old
                                                                                  locomotives. Aristo Craft 2-8-0,
                                                                                  > Ken Kidder Plantation 0-4-0t, Silvine B&O 0-4-0t, Mantua old brass
                                                                                  &
                                                                                  > cast 4-6-2, Lindast cast PA1s, Mantua Iron Horse 4-6-0, Mantua
                                                                                  > Hotterville Cannonball, Mantua old cast & brass 0-4-0c.
                                                                                  > Frank
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > SPONSORED LINKS
                                                                                  > G scale train Ho scale model train Model train n
                                                                                  scale G scale model train Ho scale trains N scale trains
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > ---------------------------------
                                                                                  > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Visit your group "vintageHO" on the web.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                  > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                  Service.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > ---------------------------------
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > ---------------------------------
                                                                                  > Yahoo! Photos - Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover
                                                                                  > Photo Books. You design it and we'll bind it!
                                                                                  >






                                                                                  SPONSORED LINKS G scale train Ho scale model train Model train n scale
                                                                                  G scale model train Ho scale trains N scale trains


                                                                                  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                  ----
                                                                                  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

                                                                                  a.. Visit your group "vintageHO" on the web.

                                                                                  b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                  vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                                                                                  c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


                                                                                  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                  ----
                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 825 From: Ray Hobin Date: 1/22/2006
                                                                                  Subject: Re: photo album
                                                                                  On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 don.dellmann@... wrote:

                                                                                  >Speaking of the Kidder Plantation, there's one on eBay right now (ends
                                                                                  >around noon CST today though)
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6029815837

                                                                                  When I was in Japan in the 60s, I bought 6 of those plantation engines.
                                                                                  Not sure of exact price but remember getting change from a 5,000 Japanese
                                                                                  Yen bill and at that time 5,000 Yen equaled about $14.00 US. Guess i pain
                                                                                  about $2.00 each.


                                                                                  Ray Hobin
                                                                                  NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX
                                                                                  Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 826 From: Jack Priller Date: 1/22/2006
                                                                                  Subject: Re: photo album
                                                                                  > On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 don.dellmann@p... wrote:
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >Speaking of the Kidder Plantation, there's one on eBay right now
                                                                                  (ends around noon CST today though)
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6029815837
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  Sold for $28.55. Double-truck Birney up at the moment, starting at
                                                                                  $39. Me, I keep looking for that 4-wheel steeple-cab they imported at
                                                                                  one time.

                                                                                  Ye Olde Trolleynut
                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 827 From: Bill Daley Date: 1/23/2006
                                                                                  Subject: Re: Old stuff...


                                                                                  erieberk <erieberk@...> wrote:
                                                                                  Would just like to add  -- the Drovers Caboose was produced by
                                                                                  Ambroid.  Ray W.
                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                  Don Dellman had previously written:                                                                    
                                                                                  > The long Hack is a "drover's caboose" (It may be a Silver Streak
                                                                                  too, I'm
                                                                                  > not sure).  > Don
                                                                                  Ray, (et al)
                                                                                  I have an unfinished ('cause I took the metal platforms for a scratchbuilt CB&Q combine/caboose) kit in a Silver Streak box that says Drover Caboose on the end label. And the parts will bill into a drovers caboose if I ever get another set of platforms.
                                                                                   
                                                                                  Both manufacturers offered that style car.
                                                                                   
                                                                                  retired grouch
                                                                                  Bill D

                                                                                  > don.dellmann@p...
                                                                                  > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                  > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                  > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                  > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                  > co-moderator: SCENERY@Y...
                                                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                  >






                                                                                  Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on new and used cars.
                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 828 From: Jim Snyder Date: 1/23/2006
                                                                                  Subject: Re: Old stuff...
                                                                                  Thanks!

                                                                                  I always have loved drovers' cabooses! I have an On3 D&RGW #215, the "Pagosa Juction
                                                                                  Car" that was a combine with a cupola. This thing has a complete interior and probably
                                                                                  sold for- I'm guessing, here- $475.00? It had taken a holiday off a trestle and I found it at
                                                                                  a garage sale! Yes, the same type of sale as the ones having someone's cast-off rowing
                                                                                  machine... $40.00!!! YUP... Forty Bucks.

                                                                                  It's interesting t o find out the heritage of these thngs. I would like to find some unbuilt
                                                                                  Ambroid B&M coaches. I guess they pop up on eBay fr. time to time.

                                                                                  Anyway... keep your eyes peeled. More a' comin'...

                                                                                  Jim Snyder
                                                                                  Monterey







                                                                                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "erieberk" <erieberk@w...> wrote:
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Would just like to add -- the Drovers Caboose was produced by
                                                                                  > Ambroid. Ray W.
                                                                                  > \
                                                                                  > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...>
                                                                                  > wrote:
                                                                                  > >
                                                                                  > >
                                                                                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                  > > From: Don Riley <steamengine4449us@y...>
                                                                                  > > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                  > > Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 12:08 PM
                                                                                  > > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Old stuff...
                                                                                  > >
                                                                                  > >
                                                                                  > > > Nice cars!
                                                                                  > > > What is up with that looonnnngggg combo hack?
                                                                                  > > > Same with the gon with no ends?
                                                                                  > > > Rest are cool too!
                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                  > > > Cool that you have such a veriety! The rest of us have to puy
                                                                                  > them on
                                                                                  > > ebay lol. I too have a collection of models. Mostly Athearn. I
                                                                                  > really like
                                                                                  > > Athearn! MDC rules too and I have quite a few of those! My coolest
                                                                                  > is an MDC
                                                                                  > > 2-6-2!
                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                  > > > Steamengine 4449
                                                                                  > >
                                                                                  > > If I may inteject, the gondolas with "no ends" are Silver
                                                                                  > Streak "Hart"
                                                                                  > > gondolas. Walthers still offers plastic versions as the "ballast
                                                                                  > car" in
                                                                                  > > their line (which is ex Train Miniature, nee Tru-Scale/silver
                                                                                  > streak).
                                                                                  > >
                                                                                  > > The long Hack is a "drover's caboose" (It may be a Silver Streak
                                                                                  > too, I'm
                                                                                  > > not sure). Back in the days when cattle moved by train, it was the
                                                                                  > practice
                                                                                  > > of the "drover's" who drove the herds of cattle to the railhead to
                                                                                  > continue
                                                                                  > > on with them, seeing to their care, feeding and watering, to the
                                                                                  > ultimate
                                                                                  > > destination where the drover was responsible for actually selling
                                                                                  > the cattle
                                                                                  > > to the packing house. The drover's caboose was found at the end of
                                                                                  > every
                                                                                  > > stock train, which is where the drovers rode.
                                                                                  > >
                                                                                  > > Don
                                                                                  > >
                                                                                  > > don.dellmann@p...
                                                                                  > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                  > > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                  > > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                  > > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                  > > co-moderator: SCENERY@Y...
                                                                                  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                  > >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 829 From: Jim Snyder Date: 1/23/2006
                                                                                  Subject: Re: Old stuff...
                                                                                  Yeah... Westcott's was something like that- I think it was 'Sunset Lines", then Sunset
                                                                                  Navigation???

                                                                                  I've got to admit- those old cars are drawing my attention. I'll get up, go over and just
                                                                                  LOOK at 'em. I hadn't realized just how much I like (so-called) "vintage" HO !

                                                                                  I have a TON of stuff... Enough brass to float most fantasy empires. In all kinds of
                                                                                  different scales and gauges. And I'm finding that 1. all that stuff is clouding my vision- I
                                                                                  don't even know what I'm interested in anymore and 2. -for some reason, the layout tours
                                                                                  and features (in the magazines) that interest me these days are the simpler, 'older-style'
                                                                                  rilroads. There's a guy named Richard Mallery- he won 3rd Prize in the M.R. Small Layout
                                                                                  Contest a few years ago- with his 'Boggs Landing & Trotwater'. Give or take a few
                                                                                  Woodland Scenics products, the B. L. & T. could have been built in 1962. His main power is
                                                                                  an MDC S8 0-6-0 kit. Then, around the same time, there was a feature on the 'Kanawha
                                                                                  Valley Railroad'... basically a 5' X 9' oval. His primary power was an ancient Aristo-Craft
                                                                                  2-8-0- a "standardized C&S" engine- it came complete with above-the-boiler tanks and
                                                                                  Ridgway cinder catcher... but was standard-gage. Plus, he had a few diesels- all-in-all a
                                                                                  fairly lackluster roster by post-2000 standards- and I can't put those magazines down!
                                                                                  Another was an RMC article on the "Lake Sheridan Railway"- a Canadian layout- fairly
                                                                                  large- with a Shay and aq couple Alcos. Anyway, it's all fun and I find myself liking it all!

                                                                                  I'll post some more shots of the cars here during the next week. Still some to go!

                                                                                  Jim Snyder
                                                                                  Monterey


                                                                                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@p...> wrote:
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                  > From: Jim Snyder <joegideon@y...>
                                                                                  > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                  > Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 9:26 AM
                                                                                  > Subject: [vintageHO] Old stuff...
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > > Greetings!
                                                                                  > >
                                                                                  > > I am the local "train nut" and, as such, I am the resident expert on
                                                                                  > everything
                                                                                  > > 'trains'. In reality, I noodle around in On3, On30 and HO- even some
                                                                                  > 'N'. I
                                                                                  > > joined the group becuse, well, I have been a train guy since I was 5-
                                                                                  > about 45
                                                                                  > > years. and am sad to say I recognize a lot of the 'Old Stuff'. but
                                                                                  > receive just
                                                                                  > > about everyone within a small radius' old trains... unless they're Lionel.
                                                                                  > of
                                                                                  > > course... because everybody knows that old Lionel trains are worth
                                                                                  > thousands
                                                                                  > > and thousands of dollars. But the rest comes to me. Th latest: a
                                                                                  > > "Chattanooga Choo Choo" set, complete with power pack. Worth about six
                                                                                  > > bucks, I'd guess.
                                                                                  > >
                                                                                  > > But not long ago, I received a boxful of trains. I didn't even look at
                                                                                  > 'em for a
                                                                                  > > couple months. But I opened the box last week and found that I have what
                                                                                  > > looks to be a "history of HO scale"! Also, some is hand-lettered for the
                                                                                  > fictional
                                                                                  > > "Northern Valley Railroad"... As I recall, there was a column or
                                                                                  > otherwise
                                                                                  > > monthly article in the now-defunct, "Model trains"- a Kalmbach offering
                                                                                  > for
                                                                                  > > less-accomplished modelers, that bit the dust in 1961 or so. Maybe it was
                                                                                  > > another rag, but I do recall the Northern Valley as being this author's
                                                                                  > railroad.
                                                                                  > >
                                                                                  > > Some is very crude; all have Mantua couplers. Some, I would run behind my
                                                                                  > > Challenger Models 2-10-2. There are some downright beautiful- reefers
                                                                                  > and
                                                                                  > > some others that I've always liked- Ulrich metal cars, Ambroid & Silver
                                                                                  > Streak
                                                                                  > > kits, etc. But there are paper hoppers (C. C. C. & St. L.) and lots of
                                                                                  > tin/wood
                                                                                  > > cars that I just can't place. There is (in pieces) a working crane car of
                                                                                  > mostly
                                                                                  > > wood.. The "jewel" is a Mantua 4-6-2- the Reading version. it's all
                                                                                  > there and
                                                                                  > > appears to have a 6v. motor! Some castings are crumbling. But it's the
                                                                                  > cars
                                                                                  > > that are interesting. There are about 40 of 'em. I will start posting
                                                                                  > photos
                                                                                  > > soon.
                                                                                  > >
                                                                                  > > I have no idea what I want to do with these things; I considered giving
                                                                                  > 'em to
                                                                                  > > the museum- but I'm certain there are zillions just like 'em... The
                                                                                  > 'Northern
                                                                                  > > Valley' intrigues me. though. There are several that have oddball
                                                                                  > couplers.
                                                                                  > >
                                                                                  > > Anyway, Take a look in 'Photos'. There'll be more shortly.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > How come nobody ever gives ME boxes of stuff like that? :-( You have some
                                                                                  > beautiful pieces there.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > (I will admit though that some of my favorite cars, as mentioned in my
                                                                                  > photos, are "scrap box" pieces that people gave me to restore).
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > As far as the "Northern Valley", wasn't Linn Westcott's home layout the
                                                                                  > "Sunset Valley"?
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Don
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > don.dellmann@p...
                                                                                  > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                  > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                  > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                  > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
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                                                                                  >
                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 831 From: Frank Date: 1/24/2006
                                                                                  Subject: new link added
                                                                                  I added a link to my Varney car group. So far i have albums for box
                                                                                  cars and hopper,open and covered,cars. You can view photos and messages
                                                                                  without joining.
                                                                                  frank O toptrain
                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 832 From: whistlestop2000 Date: 1/27/2006
                                                                                  Subject: Atlas track
                                                                                  Hi everyone,

                                                                                  I'm from Australia and very pleased to have discovered this group. I
                                                                                  must "confess" to being a collector, not a modeller, and am currently
                                                                                  gathering together some vintage American HO gear in order to build a
                                                                                  layout as if it were being built in the 40's/50's/early 60's, ie using
                                                                                  nothing newer than the 60's. I've done the same sort of thing with
                                                                                  some of the British manufacturers -Tri-ang and Hornby- which were
                                                                                  perhaps more common here in Oz in that era.

                                                                                  I'm planning to use Atlas brass track on this layout, but at the
                                                                                  moment I don't have any old Atlas catalogues. I'm trying to put a
                                                                                  date on some of the track I see on eBay and was wondering if anyone
                                                                                  can help. Of the older brass Atlas track there mainly seems to be two
                                                                                  types of packaging. The older looking is the Atlas "snap track" in red
                                                                                  and white boxes, and the more recent is packaged in yellow packets
                                                                                  with a pink strip across the top, in an outer white box. Is anyone
                                                                                  able to tell me what years these types of packaging were used? Did the
                                                                                  track change, or just the packaging? Maybe both these track systems
                                                                                  are too "new" for my layout?

                                                                                  I'd welcome any advice or suggestions.

                                                                                  Cheers, Simon
                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 833 From: don.dellmann Date: 1/27/2006
                                                                                  Subject: Re: Atlas track
                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                  From: whistlestop2000 <whistlestop@...>
                                                                                  To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                  Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 6:51 AM
                                                                                  Subject: [vintageHO] Atlas track


                                                                                  > Hi everyone,
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > I'm from Australia and very pleased to have discovered this group. I
                                                                                  > must "confess" to being a collector, not a modeller, and am currently
                                                                                  > gathering together some vintage American HO gear in order to build a
                                                                                  > layout as if it were being built in the 40's/50's/early 60's, ie using
                                                                                  > nothing newer than the 60's. I've done the same sort of thing with
                                                                                  > some of the British manufacturers -Tri-ang and Hornby- which were
                                                                                  > perhaps more common here in Oz in that era.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > I'm planning to use Atlas brass track on this layout, but at the
                                                                                  > moment I don't have any old Atlas catalogues. I'm trying to put a
                                                                                  > date on some of the track I see on eBay and was wondering if anyone
                                                                                  > can help. Of the older brass Atlas track there mainly seems to be two
                                                                                  > types of packaging. The older looking is the Atlas "snap track" in red
                                                                                  > and white boxes, and the more recent is packaged in yellow packets
                                                                                  > with a pink strip across the top, in an outer white box. Is anyone
                                                                                  > able to tell me what years these types of packaging were used? Did the
                                                                                  > track change, or just the packaging? Maybe both these track systems
                                                                                  > are too "new" for my layout?
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > I'd welcome any advice or suggestions.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Cheers, Simon

                                                                                  I can't help you with packaging, but older snap track will have rail joiners
                                                                                  that are a "single layer"
                                                                                  kind of like...

                                                                                  /_\

                                                                                  Newer track has a rail joiner that's "rolled"

                                                                                  o_o

                                                                                  Both would be looking at the joiner from the end.

                                                                                  Also popular in the 50's was flex track on fibre ties, and Tru-Scale "milled
                                                                                  roadbed", pine roadbed with the ties (sleepers for our friends in the
                                                                                  commonwealth) milled right into the roadbed and the rail glued or spiked
                                                                                  into slots on top of the ties.

                                                                                  Going way back to the late 40's early 50's there was also "Midlin" brand
                                                                                  track. This used s special rail with a vertical tang on the underside that
                                                                                  fit into a slot in the roadbed.

                                                                                  Don

                                                                                  don.dellmann@...
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                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 834 From: frank Date: 1/27/2006
                                                                                  Subject: Re: Atlas track
                                                                                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "whistlestop2000" <whistlestop@i...>
                                                                                  wrote:
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Hi everyone,
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > I'm from Australia and very pleased to have discovered this group. I
                                                                                  > must "confess" to being a collector, not a modeller, and am currently
                                                                                  > gathering together some vintage American HO gear in order to build a
                                                                                  > layout as if it were being built in the 40's/50's/early 60's, ie
                                                                                  using
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  Original Atlas track:
                                                                                  Snap track : Your not going to find the old brass plastic track. As
                                                                                  it aged it became brittle. Older production brass snap track from the
                                                                                  70's & 80's is still around. It is identical to the original, but the
                                                                                  plastic lasts. For 3 foot flex track Atlas made code 100 fiber tie,
                                                                                  stapled track. This shows up from time to time at train shows. It is
                                                                                  indestructable. When you sodered anything to old plactic flex and it
                                                                                  was on a curve, the spring tension of the curve and the melting plastic
                                                                                  would cause the track to fly appart. The fiber tie flex you could
                                                                                  solder with the hotest of irons. The track would always be fine. Your
                                                                                  house may burn down.
                                                                                  Atlas #4 brass switches and Atlas fiber flex track is what was common
                                                                                  in the 50's and early 60's.
                                                                                  Good luck with your great hobby.
                                                                                  Frank O toptrain1
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 835 From: Ray Hobin Date: 1/27/2006
                                                                                  Subject: Re: Atlas track
                                                                                  >I can't help you with packaging, but older snap track will have rail joiners
                                                                                  >that are a "single layer"
                                                                                  >kind of like...
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > /_\
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >Newer track has a rail joiner that's "rolled"
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >o_o
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >Both would be looking at the joiner from the end.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >Also popular in the 50's was flex track on fibre ties, and Tru-Scale "milled
                                                                                  >roadbed", pine roadbed with the ties (sleepers for our friends in the
                                                                                  >commonwealth) milled right into the roadbed and the rail glued or spiked
                                                                                  >into slots on top of the ties.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >Going way back to the late 40's early 50's there was also "Midlin" brand
                                                                                  >track. This used s special rail with a vertical tang on the underside that
                                                                                  >fit into a slot in the roadbed.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >Don

                                                                                  I can only ad that despite the intent to use what was in vogue in the 40s &
                                                                                  50s since the early 60s was mentioned as also to be included, brass track
                                                                                  be disregarded and go to nickel silver...he'll be far happier with that of
                                                                                  he wants an operating layout. Just my 2 cents!


                                                                                  Ray Hobin
                                                                                  NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX
                                                                                  Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 836 From: John Barlow Date: 1/27/2006
                                                                                  Subject: Re A Reply to Simon's "Atlas track"
                                                                                  Hammorabi
                                                                                   

                                                                                  Sections

                                                                                  alphabet stickers - armani watch ladies
                                                                                  armani y15 - baking dishes stoneware
                                                                                  baking pan - belle meade

                                                                                  Atlantis Snowboards Muscle
                                                                                  Atlas Dcc
                                                                                  Atlas Lathe
                                                                                  Atlas Metal Lathe
                                                                                  Atlas Oldsmobile Starfire Slot Car
                                                                                  Atlas Pd 60 Drivers For Sale
                                                                                  Atmega
                                                                                  Atmega 128
                                                                                  Atmos Lecoultre
                                                                                  Atmospheric
                                                                                  Atomic 180cm
                                                                                  Atomic B10

                                                                                  HUGE LOT OF VINTAGE ATLAS TRAIN TRACKS & TYCO BUILDINGS $75.00
                                                                                  ATLAS TRACK HO , SPIKES, RAIL JOINERS, SWITCH BLOCK $9.99
                                                                                  =Atlas-"N"Scale-20,30,45,60 Degree Crossing Track-new $24.50
                                                                                  =Atlas-"N"Scale-30 Degree Crossing Track-Selling 2-n-6 $12.50
                                                                                  =Atlas-"N"Scale-45 Degree Crossing Track-Selling 2-n-2 $12.50
                                                                                  =Atlas-"N"Scale-60 Degree Crossing Track-Selling 2-n-3 $12.50
                                                                                  1960 atlas train track with original blue print book $0.99
                                                                                  10 Atlas (#2500)- "N-Scale- Flex Track"- new/pcs $17.99
                                                                                  10 Atlas (#2500)- "N-Scale- Flex Track"- new/pcs $17.99
                                                                                  Atlas Track, Some Modified for Marklin HO $0.99
                                                                                  "N" SCALE TRAINS 9 ATLAS SWITCHES-TRACK-CONTROL BUTTONS $31.00
                                                                                  O/S SCALE TRAIN TRACK END BUMPER 4 LIONEL ATLAS MARX $12.50
                                                                                  O/S SCALE TRAIN TRACK SIGNAL LIGHT 4 Lionel Atlas Marx $2.25
                                                                                  Blueprint Book for Atlas Snap-Track Layouts/1960/30 Pg. $2.90
                                                                                  'N' 100 PIECES ATLAS SECTIONAL TRACK, STRAIGHT+CURVED $16.48
                                                                                  'N' 100 PIECES ATLAS SECTIONAL TRACK, STRAIGHT+CURVED $9.88
                                                                                  Assortment of Atlas Code 83 Track $19.95
                                                                                  Atlas, nickel silver HO track code 83 + EXTRAS $9.99
                                                                                  ATLAS RAILROAD SIGNAL[2] FLASHERS & [2] 9" TRACK $4.99
                                                                                  Atlas O 3-Rail O-81 Curved Track #6011; 15 sections $62.99
                                                                                  Atlas O 3-Rail O-90 Curved Track #6013; 17 sections $79.99
                                                                                  lot vintage ATLAS N SCALE track $2.99
                                                                                  40 PIECES ATLAS HO #500 83 FlEX TRACK W/ BRN TIES $76.85
                                                                                  Atlas HO Scale 168 Code 100 36" Flex "Track 25 Pieces" $49.99
                                                                                  Ho scale train lot tyco , Atlas, ho track & switch $10.00
                                                                                  HO Large Lot OF Atlas Bachman Track Transformers ETC $10.50
                                                                                  Atlas HO scale Girder Bridge w/ built in track $2.80
                                                                                  Atlas HO scale Girder Bridge w/ built in track $0.99
                                                                                  Atlas HO scale Girder Bridge w/ built in track $0.99
                                                                                  Atlas HO scale Girder Bridge w/ built in track $0.99
                                                                                  Atlas HO scale Girder Bridge w/ built in track $0.99
                                                                                  Atlas HO scale Girder Bridge w/ built in track $0.99
                                                                                  Atlas HO scale Girder Bridge w/ built in track $0.99
                                                                                  Lot of Atlas HO Snap-Track, Switches, Selector & Misc. $36.00
                                                                                  Atlas Ho train track & switches $11.03
                                                                                  Atlas Railroad Tracks Switchers and Cross Roads $12.99
                                                                                  Lionel / Atlas 3 Rail O Track L/N O36, O54, & Crossings $16.50
                                                                                  10 PIECES OF ATLAS N-SCALE 30" FLEX TRACKS $11.25
                                                                                  LOT OF ATLAS TRACK $0.99
                                                                                  Atlas N-Scale Misc.Track & Pier Girders $5.99
                                                                                  ATLAS CURVED TRACK AND 2 USED BRIDGES $5.25
                                                                                  Atlas Track Nails - New ! $1.99
                                                                                  Huge Lot Of Atlas Nickel Silver Track $33.00
                                                                                  ATLAS O Gauge Uncoupling Track 1Set #6059 $3.01
                                                                                  Atlas Snap Track Assortment Nickel Silver $15.50
                                                                                  ON30 HO BRASS ATLAS TRACK SWITCH ASSORTMENT $9.99
                                                                                  ON30 HO BRASS ATLAS TRACK ASSORTMENT NEW IN BOXS $5.00
                                                                                  ON30 HO BRASS ATLAS TRACK ASSORTMENT NEW IN BOXS $5.00
                                                                                  ON30 HO BRASS ATLAS TRACK ASSORTMENT NEW IN BOXS $5.00
                                                                                  HO train track cork for Tyco Atlas Lionel railroad $2.25

                                                                                  © Copyright 2004 All Rights Reserved Hammorabi


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                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 837 From: don.dellmann Date: 1/27/2006
                                                                                  Subject: Re: Atlas track
                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                  From: Ray Hobin <tcol01@...>
                                                                                  To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                  Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 5:28 PM
                                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Atlas track


                                                                                  (text bobbitted)
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > I can only ad that despite the intent to use what was in vogue in the 40s
                                                                                  &
                                                                                  > 50s since the early 60s was mentioned as also to be included, brass track
                                                                                  > be disregarded and go to nickel silver...he'll be far happier with that of
                                                                                  > he wants an operating layout. Just my 2 cents!
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Ray Hobin
                                                                                  > NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX
                                                                                  > Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]

                                                                                  As far as "era" is concerned, I have open on my lap a copy of Model
                                                                                  Railroader, August 1961.

                                                                                  The Atlas Ad headlines

                                                                                  "Now the realism you asked for in model rairoad track...
                                                                                  Atlas presents a complete new line of nickle silver HO track products and
                                                                                  accessories"

                                                                                  3' flex track, straight 9" snap track, 15", 18" and 22" radius snap track,
                                                                                  "Custom line" turnouts, snap crossings and terminal, rerailer, bumper, dead
                                                                                  end uncoupler and remote uncloupler are listed.

                                                                                  I might also note the "uncouplers" are intended for "horny hooks" :-)

                                                                                  Don

                                                                                  don.dellmann@...
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                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 838 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 1/27/2006
                                                                                  Subject: Re: Atlas track
                                                                                  Just my 2cents worth, but I would go with nickle silver also. trying to keep brass clean was always a full time job for me. So I agree with Ray go nickle silver if you're going to operate.
                                                                                  Chuck aka gramps

                                                                                  "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote:

                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                  From: Ray Hobin <tcol01@...>
                                                                                  To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                  Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 5:28 PM
                                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Atlas track


                                                                                  (text bobbitted)
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > I can only ad that despite the intent to use what was in vogue in the 40s
                                                                                  &
                                                                                  > 50s since the early 60s was mentioned as also to be included, brass track
                                                                                  > be disregarded and go to nickel silver...he'll be far happier with that of
                                                                                  > he wants an operating layout.  Just my 2 cents!
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Ray Hobin
                                                                                  >   NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX
                                                                                  >   Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]

                                                                                  As far as "era" is concerned, I have open on my lap a copy of Model
                                                                                  Railroader, August 1961.

                                                                                  The Atlas Ad headlines

                                                                                  "Now the realism you asked for in model rairoad track...
                                                                                    Atlas presents a complete new line of nickle silver HO track products and
                                                                                  accessories"

                                                                                  3' flex track, straight 9" snap track, 15", 18" and 22" radius snap track,
                                                                                  "Custom line" turnouts, snap crossings and terminal, rerailer, bumper, dead
                                                                                  end uncoupler and remote uncloupler are listed.

                                                                                  I might also note the "uncouplers" are intended for "horny hooks" :-)

                                                                                  Don

                                                                                  don.dellmann@...
                                                                                  http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
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                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 839 From: Don Dellmann Date: 1/29/2006
                                                                                  Subject: Thomas Wine Car
                                                                                  Attachments :
                                                                                    Well, I did it. (almost)

                                                                                    It's only been about a year and a half since I found the kit and started
                                                                                    putting it together. Still needs just a couple minor details (a little
                                                                                    touch up paint on the ladders & frame, and brake gear), but it's to the
                                                                                    point where it does run on the layout.

                                                                                    Don

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                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 840 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 1/29/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Hobbyline
                                                                                    I have a Hobbyline Fairbanks-Morse 1200HP Diesel Switcher Cat.# 1000.
                                                                                    It is in excellent cond.including O.B. complete with instructions and
                                                                                    parts list, there is no assembly diagram. It is a real nice loco, and
                                                                                    I'm wondering the date of manufacture.I can't see a date. The parts
                                                                                    list also indicates a dummy truck, but mine has both trucks geared with
                                                                                    a flex connection between the two.
                                                                                    Thanks
                                                                                    Chuck aka gramps
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 841 From: mph261 Date: 1/30/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Purity vs. Practicality
                                                                                    I know that this is an "age old" question, but it popped in my mind
                                                                                    this weekend as I replaced original Lionel wheelsets with new
                                                                                    Kadees, because the Lionel flanges are so big they're chewing up the
                                                                                    bottom of the caboose. The question: is it more desirable to keep
                                                                                    things pure at any cost (even if it means to stop running them), or
                                                                                    to make changes that take away the purity of the vintage item?

                                                                                    As far as my Lionel cabooses are concerned, they now sport new
                                                                                    wheelsets and Kadee couplers (which required a modifcation that
                                                                                    prevents the old Lionel NMRA couples from being used again). I am
                                                                                    content with my decision because running them on my layout is how I
                                                                                    will enjoy them. Also, I realize that they are not the most vintage
                                                                                    item out there, which adds another twist to the question. Is it OK
                                                                                    to make this type of change as long is it is not a .... (fill in the
                                                                                    blank with something that is held in extreme respect)?

                                                                                    I really don't expect the group to come to a conclusion, and I would
                                                                                    be surprised if we all see things the smae way on this topic, but I
                                                                                    thought it would be interesting to get some other perspectives
                                                                                    before I do something stupid like install lights in my Aerotrain.

                                                                                    Mark
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 842 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 1/30/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Purity vs. Practicality
                                                                                    Mark,
                                                                                    I'm a "new kid on the block", but I'll through in something here as a huge advocate of vintage model RR'ing.  I believe there are 2 types of vintage model RR hobbyists, those that enjoy using and operating the models the "old way" that dad and maybe grandpa did, and then there are "collectors" who wish to buy and keep models for the enjoyment of display, or passing them on to family, or reselling.  I believe that your question is answered by which you are.
                                                                                     
                                                                                    I have dozens of vintage and extinct models on hand.  As an operator hobbyist, I have no problem adapting a Kadee coupler to a 1942 Varney box car, or putting a newer set of tender trucks on an old Bowser.  I love watching a vintage cast brass loco crawl through the switch yard and imagine how many modelers saw that same thing 50 years ago.  But, I believe that "minor" upgrades to any vintage loco that is purely used for enjoyment is safe.  I also love to add detail to the oldies, and although most didn't come out with side piping and extra add-ons, I love to see those additions on them.  I have an original HO brass Winton Allegheny that is absolutely loaded with piping.  Nothing original about that, but it sure enhances the loco (it will have newer Kadee's on it soon as well).
                                                                                     
                                                                                    On the other hand, I have some models that will be sold to collectors who demand original condition only.  For those, I don't change a thing unless it is an exact replacement part. 
                                                                                    I also tend to keep the very oldest locos I have as original as possible, but again, it's my preference.  Normally, those are worth so much it wouldn't be prudent to change them. 
                                                                                     
                                                                                    I'm sure there are diversities of opinions out there, but I'd say, if you enjoy running them as you obviously do, some upgrading for them to run better is certainly in order. 
                                                                                      
                                                                                    yardy
                                                                                     
                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                    From: mph261
                                                                                    Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 12:49 PM
                                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] Purity vs. Practicality

                                                                                    I know that this is an "age old" question, but it popped in my mind
                                                                                    this weekend as I replaced original Lionel wheelsets with new
                                                                                    Kadees, because the Lionel flanges are so big they're chewing up the
                                                                                    bottom of the caboose.  The question: is it more desirable to keep
                                                                                    things pure at any cost (even if it means to stop running them), or
                                                                                    to make changes that take away the purity of the vintage item?

                                                                                    As far as my Lionel cabooses are concerned, they now sport new
                                                                                    wheelsets and Kadee couplers (which required a modifcation that
                                                                                    prevents the old Lionel NMRA couples from being used again).  I am
                                                                                    content with my decision because running them on my layout is how I
                                                                                    will enjoy them.  Also, I realize that they are not the most vintage
                                                                                    item out there, which adds another twist to the question.  Is it OK
                                                                                    to make this type of change as long is it is not a .... (fill in the
                                                                                    blank with something that is held in extreme respect)?

                                                                                    I really don't expect the group to come to a conclusion, and I would
                                                                                    be surprised if we all see things the smae way on this topic, but I
                                                                                    thought it would be interesting to get some other perspectives
                                                                                    before I do something stupid like install lights in my Aerotrain.

                                                                                    Mark



                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 843 From: frank Date: 1/30/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Hobbyline
                                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Svihlik" <c_t_j_dad@y...>
                                                                                    wrote:
                                                                                    > Frank toptrain Chuck: I have two of them I repowered with Athern
                                                                                    Drives. From SW7's

                                                                                    > I have a Hobbyline Fairbanks-Morse 1200HP Diesel Switcher Cat.# 1000.
                                                                                    > It is in excellent cond.including O.B. complete with instructions and
                                                                                    > parts list, there is no assembly diagram. It is a real nice loco, and
                                                                                    > I'm wondering the date of manufacture.I can't see a date. The parts
                                                                                    > list also indicates a dummy truck, but mine has both trucks geared
                                                                                    with
                                                                                    > a flex connection between the two.
                                                                                    > Thanks
                                                                                    > Chuck aka gramps
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 844 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 1/30/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Hobbyline
                                                                                    Thanks Frank,
                                                                                    I have a power and dummy truck from an old Varney SW that I was
                                                                                    thinking about using but the Athearn sounds like a better choice.
                                                                                    gramps

                                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "frank" <toptrain1@a...> wrote:
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Svihlik" <c_t_j_dad@y...>
                                                                                    > wrote:
                                                                                    > > Frank toptrain Chuck: I have two of them I repowered with Athern
                                                                                    > Drives. From SW7's
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > > I have a Hobbyline Fairbanks-Morse 1200HP Diesel Switcher Cat.#
                                                                                    1000.
                                                                                    > > It is in excellent cond.including O.B. complete with instructions
                                                                                    and
                                                                                    > > parts list, there is no assembly diagram. It is a real nice loco,
                                                                                    and
                                                                                    > > I'm wondering the date of manufacture.I can't see a date. The
                                                                                    parts
                                                                                    > > list also indicates a dummy truck, but mine has both trucks
                                                                                    geared
                                                                                    > with
                                                                                    > > a flex connection between the two.
                                                                                    > > Thanks
                                                                                    > > Chuck aka gramps
                                                                                    > >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 845 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 1/30/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Purity vs. Practicality
                                                                                    Mark
                                                                                    I totally agree with yardy. The choice to alter your trains is yours
                                                                                    the whole idea behind our hobby is to have fun and enjoy. I've been
                                                                                    in this hobby for 60+ years and it's the greatest hobby I can think
                                                                                    of. I never hesitate to tell people that I still play with trains.
                                                                                    gramps


                                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "mph261" <mph261@y...> wrote:
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > I know that this is an "age old" question, but it popped in my mind
                                                                                    > this weekend as I replaced original Lionel wheelsets with new
                                                                                    > Kadees, because the Lionel flanges are so big they're chewing up
                                                                                    the
                                                                                    > bottom of the caboose. The question: is it more desirable to keep
                                                                                    > things pure at any cost (even if it means to stop running them), or
                                                                                    > to make changes that take away the purity of the vintage item?
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > As far as my Lionel cabooses are concerned, they now sport new
                                                                                    > wheelsets and Kadee couplers (which required a modifcation that
                                                                                    > prevents the old Lionel NMRA couples from being used again). I am
                                                                                    > content with my decision because running them on my layout is how I
                                                                                    > will enjoy them. Also, I realize that they are not the most
                                                                                    vintage
                                                                                    > item out there, which adds another twist to the question. Is it OK
                                                                                    > to make this type of change as long is it is not a .... (fill in
                                                                                    the
                                                                                    > blank with something that is held in extreme respect)?
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > I really don't expect the group to come to a conclusion, and I
                                                                                    would
                                                                                    > be surprised if we all see things the smae way on this topic, but I
                                                                                    > thought it would be interesting to get some other perspectives
                                                                                    > before I do something stupid like install lights in my Aerotrain.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > Mark
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 846 From: John Barlow Date: 1/30/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Purity vs. Practicality...and Artistry
                                                                                    Dear Yardy,
                                                                                     
                                                                                    When I joined I said to the moderator that I enjoyed finding vintage kits for several reasons. (1) The are not available today from any kit/R-T-R manufacturer (i.e., my O&NW box car); and (2) some structure kits when they provide full-size (for the model) diagrams that can enable me to get newer materials to maybe (a) more easily achieve the model or (b) to relace deteriorated or worn kit components with newer pieces (sometimes requiring total fabrication.)
                                                                                     
                                                                                    If the kit acquisitor builds to operate back in another time-his/her choice. If a modeller upgrades, there is no criticism since the idea is that prototypicality is desired for realistic operation and appearance. Neither "purity" nor "practicality" be devoid of "artistry"...and I think that is the desired end result for both types of modellers but not necessarily "pure collectors".
                                                                                     
                                                                                    John
                                                                                     


                                                                                    Yardbird Trains <danrbush@...> wrote:
                                                                                    Mark,
                                                                                    I'm a "new kid on the block", but I'll through in something here as a huge advocate of vintage model RR'ing.  I believe there are 2 types of vintage model RR hobbyists, those that enjoy using and operating the models the "old way" that dad and maybe grandpa did, and then there are "collectors" who wish to buy and keep models for the enjoyment of display, or passing them on to family, or reselling.  I believe that your question is answered by which you are.
                                                                                     
                                                                                    I have dozens of vintage and extinct models on hand.  As an operator hobbyist, I have no problem adapting a Kadee coupler to a 1942 Varney box car, or putting a newer set of tender trucks on an old Bowser.  I love watching a vintage cast brass loco crawl through the switch yard and imagine how many modelers saw that same thing 50 years ago.  But, I believe that "minor" upgrades to any vintage loco that is purely used for enjoyment is safe.  I also love to add detail to the oldies, and although most didn't come out with side piping and extra add-ons, I love to see those additions on them.  I have an original HO brass Winton Allegheny that is absolutely loaded with piping.  Nothing original about that, but it sure enhances the loco (it will have newer Kadee's on it soon as well).
                                                                                     
                                                                                    On the other hand, I have some models that will be sold to collectors who demand original condition only.  For those, I don't change a thing unless it is an exact replacement part. 
                                                                                    I also tend to keep the very oldest locos I have as original as possible, but again, it's my preference.  Normally, those are worth so much it wouldn't be prudent to change them. 
                                                                                     
                                                                                    I'm sure there are diversities of opinions out there, but I'd say, if you enjoy running them as you obviously do, some upgrading for them to run better is certainly in order. 
                                                                                      
                                                                                    yardy
                                                                                     
                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                    From: mph261
                                                                                    Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 12:49 PM
                                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] Purity vs. Practicality

                                                                                    I know that this is an "age old" question, but it popped in my mind
                                                                                    this weekend as I replaced original Lionel wheelsets with new
                                                                                    Kadees, because the Lionel flanges are so big they're chewing up the
                                                                                    bottom of the caboose.  The question: is it more desirable to keep
                                                                                    things pure at any cost (even if it means to stop running them), or
                                                                                    to make changes that take away the purity of the vintage item?

                                                                                    As far as my Lionel cabooses are concerned, they now sport new
                                                                                    wheelsets and Kadee couplers (which required a modifcation that
                                                                                    prevents the old Lionel NMRA couples from being used again).  I am
                                                                                    content with my decision because running them on my layout is how I
                                                                                    will enjoy them.  Also, I realize that they are not the most vintage
                                                                                    item out there, which adds another twist to the question.  Is it OK
                                                                                    to make this type of change as long is it is not a .... (fill in the
                                                                                    blank with something that is held in extreme respect)?

                                                                                    I really don't expect the group to come to a conclusion, and I would
                                                                                    be surprised if we all see things the smae way on this topic, but I
                                                                                    thought it would be interesting to get some other perspectives
                                                                                    before I do something stupid like install lights in my Aerotrain.

                                                                                    Mark





                                                                                    Bring words and photos together (easily) with
                                                                                    PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.

                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 847 From: Imp Ster Date: 1/30/2006
                                                                                    Subject: da imp rants about Brass gleam and Vintage upgrades
                                                                                    love the old brass rail.
                                                                                    love it, love it.
                                                                                    esp the relatively-rare true-profile railstock that actually looks like
                                                                                    (*gasp*)actual RAIL.
                                                                                    (gee, wotta concept.)
                                                                                    there is something about (high-traffic) well-worn brass rail, looks
                                                                                    like liquid gold when the light is right.
                                                                                    somehow the wheel tread path picks up the light, alng with the frogs
                                                                                    and switch-points... now, you get the same sort of effect with NS rail,
                                                                                    but not quite as dramatic.
                                                                                    and with modern HO rail all going to "code 88", theres lots less to
                                                                                    love.

                                                                                    btw, if anyone has a need for Atlas #6 (vintage) turnouts,, let me know.
                                                                                    i got a BIG case of them, DOZENS, in RH and LH, never used, all boxed,
                                                                                    most still in tissue.
                                                                                    will happily trade for old Athearn, Varney, Ulrich, or Mantua scrap or
                                                                                    etc.

                                                                                    upgrades: when Kadee came out with their superlative couplers & wheels,
                                                                                    thats all i needed to know.
                                                                                    KayBee also makes excellent wheels for the HO enthusiast, however most
                                                                                    short-order hobby-craft-train shops dont bother to stock the full
                                                                                    KayBee etc lines... indeed, you are lucky if they even stock all (or
                                                                                    more than a few) of the Kadee wheel varieties.

                                                                                    as for couplers, Kadee is really the only thing for serious operation,
                                                                                    due to the heavier design in the metal versions; even the plastic
                                                                                    Kadees are far superior to the dinky magnetic knock-offs currently
                                                                                    included with most modern "scale" RTR.
                                                                                    knuckly couplers (non-talgo-mounted) are needed if you often push long
                                                                                    trains up hills or around curves, as i do.
                                                                                    plus, they just look better.
                                                                                    so i'd not feel the least bit of remorse by adding Kadee's as long as
                                                                                    the modification didnt compromise structural intergrity of the model.
                                                                                    (however i always save the bits & pieces of the originals, just in
                                                                                    case. ;-) )

                                                                                    ...
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 848 From: Don Riley Date: 1/30/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Purity vs. Practicality
                                                                                    Oh yes that question!!
                                                                                    Well it depends on if you want to sell them.
                                                                                    I collect Athearn and MDC. And I have only needed to do minor things so far. Mostly replaceing couplers and boxes on the band powered F7s. THis can be interesting as wheel spacing changed!! A 5 will fit some but not others! Used a 37 for those (it has a rounded box and totally different spring)
                                                                                    I have not found a good way to replace couplers on those old GP7s.
                                                                                    I have a bunch of old freight cars still in there boxes that I have not built. I have some that were built that I run some. They have those solid knuckles one has a early openable knuckle at one end. Kadees will go into those solid ones if you are careful.
                                                                                    I would deside based on rareness. So if you see zillions of them on ebay then change it up. If it is truely rare leave it alone.
                                                                                     
                                                                                    Steamengine 4449

                                                                                    mph261 <mph261@...> wrote:
                                                                                    I know that this is an "age old" question, but it popped in my mind
                                                                                    this weekend as I replaced original Lionel wheelsets with new
                                                                                    Kadees, because the Lionel flanges are so big they're chewing up the
                                                                                    bottom of the caboose.  The question: is it more desirable to keep
                                                                                    things pure at any cost (even if it means to stop running them), or
                                                                                    to make changes that take away the purity of the vintage item?

                                                                                    As far as my Lionel cabooses are concerned, they now sport new
                                                                                    wheelsets and Kadee couplers (which required a modifcation that
                                                                                    prevents the old Lionel NMRA couples from being used again).  I am
                                                                                    content with my decision because running them on my layout is how I
                                                                                    will enjoy them.  Also, I realize that they are not the most vintage
                                                                                    item out there, which adds another twist to the question.  Is it OK
                                                                                    to make this type of change as long is it is not a .... (fill in the
                                                                                    blank with something that is held in extreme respect)?

                                                                                    I really don't expect the group to come to a conclusion, and I would
                                                                                    be surprised if we all see things the smae way on this topic, but I
                                                                                    thought it would be interesting to get some other perspectives
                                                                                    before I do something stupid like install lights in my Aerotrain.

                                                                                    Mark


                                                                                    Bring words and photos together (easily) with
                                                                                    PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.

                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 849 From: don.dellmann Date: 1/30/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Purity vs. Practicality
                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                    From: mph261 <mph261@...>
                                                                                    To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                    Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 12:49 PM
                                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] Purity vs. Practicality


                                                                                    > I know that this is an "age old" question, but it popped in my mind
                                                                                    > this weekend as I replaced original Lionel wheelsets with new
                                                                                    > Kadees, because the Lionel flanges are so big they're chewing up the
                                                                                    > bottom of the caboose. The question: is it more desirable to keep
                                                                                    > things pure at any cost (even if it means to stop running them), or
                                                                                    > to make changes that take away the purity of the vintage item?
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > As far as my Lionel cabooses are concerned, they now sport new
                                                                                    > wheelsets and Kadee couplers (which required a modifcation that
                                                                                    > prevents the old Lionel NMRA couples from being used again). I am
                                                                                    > content with my decision because running them on my layout is how I
                                                                                    > will enjoy them. Also, I realize that they are not the most vintage
                                                                                    > item out there, which adds another twist to the question. Is it OK
                                                                                    > to make this type of change as long is it is not a .... (fill in the
                                                                                    > blank with something that is held in extreme respect)?
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > I really don't expect the group to come to a conclusion, and I would
                                                                                    > be surprised if we all see things the smae way on this topic, but I
                                                                                    > thought it would be interesting to get some other perspectives
                                                                                    > before I do something stupid like install lights in my Aerotrain.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > Mark

                                                                                    Well, if you read the cover page for this group, you'll see it's "Vintage HO
                                                                                    OPERATORS". The focus is on actually using the wonderful old models we grew
                                                                                    up with.

                                                                                    To that end, I have no problem at all with operational upgrades. If you
                                                                                    look in my album you'll see they all have Kadee couples, many have been
                                                                                    retrucked, and cars are not allowed on my layout without metal wheels. I've
                                                                                    repainted Hobbyline cars when the original decals were not salvagable. I
                                                                                    probably WOULD have a problem with repainting an original car if the scheme
                                                                                    was rare (like my Varney Ostuco gondola, or my original plastic frame GP-9
                                                                                    in the early GN Athearn colors, even though it's on a Hobbytown chassis),
                                                                                    but OTOH, my Revell NW-2 was repainted (as was my Varney) and is riding on
                                                                                    an Athearn underframe, and my Hobbyline FA-1 is going to get some frame or
                                                                                    truck modifications to lower it to a more prototypical height.

                                                                                    It's just like when I get an old vintage kit, I BUILD it!

                                                                                    In all honesty, I think the "purist" who shudders at the thought of even
                                                                                    taking his brass locomotive out of the box, much less paint it and run it,
                                                                                    probably wouldn't feel comfortable here.

                                                                                    (And I AM going to get lights in MY Aerotrain someday, {although it's not
                                                                                    the Varney original, rather the Bowser re-issue <G>})

                                                                                    Don

                                                                                    don.dellmann@...
                                                                                    http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                    moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                    moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                    moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                    co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 850 From: don.dellmann Date: 1/30/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Purity vs. Practicality
                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                    From: Chuck Svihlik <c_t_j_dad@...>
                                                                                    To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                    Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 4:33 PM
                                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Purity vs. Practicality


                                                                                    > Mark
                                                                                    > I totally agree with yardy. The choice to alter your trains is yours
                                                                                    > the whole idea behind our hobby is to have fun and enjoy. I've been
                                                                                    > in this hobby for 60+ years and it's the greatest hobby I can think
                                                                                    > of. I never hesitate to tell people that I still play with trains.
                                                                                    > gramps
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    (text bobbitted)


                                                                                    Besides, how many people do you know who have MARX HO cars with Central
                                                                                    Valley Trucks and Kadees <G>

                                                                                    Don

                                                                                    don.dellmann@...
                                                                                    http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                    moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                    moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                    moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                    co-moderator: SCENERY@...
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                                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 851 From: Don Riley Date: 1/30/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Re: da imp rants about Brass gleam and Vintage upgrades
                                                                                    lol!
                                                                                    Well I have a mixture of brass and nickle silver rail. I do not have enough of either so I use both. Same with switches. I know what you mean about the look of brass! It does look really cool when the light is shining on it. But is prone to corrode. Then the engines do not run right and it has to be polished.
                                                                                    I still use code 100 rail! I have tons of it so I do not have the urge to change for all 88. Plus it works just as well! I used to have one Code 88 switch. Got it by mistake! I used it in a yard worked ok. Till it failed. No I not remember what happened. I think it was elctrical. Anyway I replaced it with a code 100. So now it all matches.
                                                                                    So what is a number 6 switch??
                                                                                    ie same as the regular Atlas switches I use? Does it work with code 100 rail?
                                                                                     
                                                                                    I have not changed out any wheelsets yet. I have a Globe (plastic frame) F7b with no wheels. I have one more of the same that someone put band drum wheels on. Runs great! So I ordered another set of those from Horizon. (yes they still sell them!) Well needless to say the coupler boxes would not play nice with the drum! So now that B still has no wheels. And I have an extra set. Oh well never know when I might need those! 
                                                                                    But still I am wondering what veriety of modern wheels to put on my B. Yeah I was temped to raid one of the many boxes of Globe F7s around here. But they are NIB style kits and well.... Also those wheels are crap! I mean I have a devel of a time trying to keep them railed.
                                                                                     
                                                                                    I too am a fallower of Kadee! I must have gotten hundreds of there couplers over the years! I really like the BIG packs!
                                                                                     
                                                                                    Steamengine 4449

                                                                                    Imp Ster <iimpster@...> wrote:
                                                                                    love the old brass rail.
                                                                                    love it, love it.
                                                                                    esp the relatively-rare true-profile railstock that actually looks like
                                                                                    (*gasp*)actual RAIL.
                                                                                    (gee, wotta concept.)
                                                                                    there is something about (high-traffic) well-worn brass rail, looks
                                                                                    like liquid gold when the light is right.
                                                                                    somehow the wheel tread path picks up the light, alng with the frogs
                                                                                    and switch-points... now, you get the same sort of effect with NS rail,
                                                                                    but not quite as dramatic.
                                                                                    and with modern HO rail all going to "code 88", theres lots less to
                                                                                    love.

                                                                                    btw, if anyone has a need for Atlas #6 (vintage) turnouts,, let me know.
                                                                                    i got a BIG case of them, DOZENS, in RH and LH, never used, all boxed,
                                                                                    most still in tissue.
                                                                                    will happily trade for old Athearn, Varney, Ulrich, or Mantua scrap or
                                                                                    etc.

                                                                                    upgrades: when Kadee came out with their superlative couplers & wheels,
                                                                                    thats all i needed to know.
                                                                                    KayBee also makes excellent wheels for the HO enthusiast, however most
                                                                                    short-order hobby-craft-train shops dont bother to stock the full
                                                                                    KayBee etc lines... indeed, you are lucky if they even stock all (or
                                                                                    more than a few) of the Kadee wheel varieties.

                                                                                    as for couplers, Kadee is really the only thing for serious operation,
                                                                                    due to the heavier design in the metal versions; even the plastic
                                                                                    Kadees are far superior to the dinky magnetic knock-offs currently
                                                                                    included with most modern "scale" RTR.
                                                                                    knuckly couplers (non-talgo-mounted) are needed if you often push long
                                                                                    trains up hills or around curves, as i do.
                                                                                    plus, they just look better.
                                                                                    so i'd not feel the least bit of remorse by adding Kadee's as long as
                                                                                    the modification didnt compromise structural intergrity of the model.
                                                                                    (however i always save the bits & pieces of the originals, just in
                                                                                    case. ;-) )


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                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 852 From: John Barlow Date: 1/30/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Re: da imp rants about Brass gleam and Vintage upgrades
                                                                                    Dear Don,
                                                                                     
                                                                                    i'm not an electrical engineer, so I would advise you to check with one who is more expert on what I'm thinking about as a problem. Two different electric-conductive metals set up a wheatstone bridge situation, but the point I am getting at is that
                                                                                    two different metals have different conductivity capabilities. Well-won't that affect
                                                                                    operating speeds?
                                                                                     
                                                                                    John
                                                                                    Don Riley <steamengine4449us@...> wrote:
                                                                                    lol!
                                                                                    Well I have a mixture of brass and nickle silver rail. I do not have enough of either so I use both. Same with switches. I know what you mean about the look of brass! It does look really cool when the light is shining on it. But is prone to corrode. Then the engines do not run right and it has to be polished.
                                                                                    I still use code 100 rail! I have tons of it so I do not have the urge to change for all 88. Plus it works just as well! I used to have one Code 88 switch. Got it by mistake! I used it in a yard worked ok. Till it failed. No I not remember what happened. I think it was elctrical. Anyway I replaced it with a code 100. So now it all matches.
                                                                                    So what is a number 6 switch??
                                                                                    ie same as the regular Atlas switches I use? Does it work with code 100 rail?
                                                                                     
                                                                                    I have not changed out any wheelsets yet. I have a Globe (plastic frame) F7b with no wheels. I have one more of the same that someone put band drum wheels on. Runs great! So I ordered another set of those from Horizon. (yes they still sell them!) Well needless to say the coupler boxes would not play nice with the drum! So now that B still has no wheels. And I have an extra set. Oh well never know when I might need those! 
                                                                                    But still I am wondering what veriety of modern wheels to put on my B. Yeah I was temped to raid one of the many boxes of Globe F7s around here. But they are NIB style kits and well.... Also those wheels are crap! I mean I have a devel of a time trying to keep them railed.
                                                                                     
                                                                                    I too am a fallower of Kadee! I must have gotten hundreds of there couplers over the years! I really like the BIG packs!
                                                                                     
                                                                                    Steamengine 4449

                                                                                    Imp Ster <iimpster@...> wrote:
                                                                                    love the old brass rail.
                                                                                    love it, love it.
                                                                                    esp the relatively-rare true-profile railstock that actually looks like
                                                                                    (*gasp*)actual RAIL.
                                                                                    (gee, wotta concept.)
                                                                                    there is something about (high-traffic) well-worn brass rail, looks
                                                                                    like liquid gold when the light is right.
                                                                                    somehow the wheel tread path picks up the light, alng with the frogs
                                                                                    and switch-points... now, you get the same sort of effect with NS rail,
                                                                                    but not quite as dramatic.
                                                                                    and with modern HO rail all going to "code 88", theres lots less to
                                                                                    love.

                                                                                    btw, if anyone has a need for Atlas #6 (vintage) turnouts,, let me know.
                                                                                    i got a BIG case of them, DOZENS, in RH and LH, never used, all boxed,
                                                                                    most still in tissue.
                                                                                    will happily trade for old Athearn, Varney, Ulrich, or Mantua scrap or
                                                                                    etc.

                                                                                    upgrades: when Kadee came out with their superlative couplers & wheels,
                                                                                    thats all i needed to know.
                                                                                    KayBee also makes excellent wheels for the HO enthusiast, however most
                                                                                    short-order hobby-craft-train shops dont bother to stock the full
                                                                                    KayBee etc lines... indeed, you are lucky if they even stock all (or
                                                                                    more than a few) of the Kadee wheel varieties.

                                                                                    as for couplers, Kadee is really the only thing for serious operation,
                                                                                    due to the heavier design in the metal versions; even the plastic
                                                                                    Kadees are far superior to the dinky magnetic knock-offs currently
                                                                                    included with most modern "scale" RTR.
                                                                                    knuckly couplers (non-talgo-mounted) are needed if you often push long
                                                                                    trains up hills or around curves, as i do.
                                                                                    plus, they just look better.
                                                                                    so i'd not feel the least bit of remorse by adding Kadee's as long as
                                                                                    the modification didnt compromise structural intergrity of the model.
                                                                                    (however i always save the bits & pieces of the originals, just in
                                                                                    case. ;-) )

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                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 853 From: Ray Hobin Date: 1/31/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Purity vs. Practicality
                                                                                    On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 "mph261" <mph261@...> wrote:

                                                                                    >I know that this is an "age old" question, but it popped in my mind
                                                                                    >this weekend as I replaced original Lionel wheelsets with new
                                                                                    >Kadees, because the Lionel flanges are so big they're chewing up the
                                                                                    >bottom of the caboose. The question: is it more desirable to keep
                                                                                    >things pure at any cost (even if it means to stop running them), or
                                                                                    >to make changes that take away the purity of the vintage item?


                                                                                    This is the continuing dilemma always constant within the "tinplate'
                                                                                    community when a "collector" also wants to be an "operator". Since you
                                                                                    stated, "I am content with my decision because running them on my layout
                                                                                    is how I will enjoy them.

                                                                                    Of course, if one had a real rare and valuable item, then alteration might
                                                                                    not be prudent, unless, of course, the item could easily be returned to its
                                                                                    original configuration.

                                                                                    Run and enjoy 'em!





                                                                                    Ray Hobin
                                                                                    NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX
                                                                                    Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 854 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 1/31/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Purity vs. Practicality...and Artistry
                                                                                    John,
                                                                                    I absolutely agree with you.
                                                                                    One of the strong points of our hobby in the "early" days was that aspect of building it yourself to your own taste.  Many kits were built and customized to meet the modelers desires.  I know that my dad built many Silver Streak kits and added his own brand of trucks that he thought were "smoother rolling".  He also liked to change out the couplers for ones he decided worked better. 
                                                                                     
                                                                                    I certainly get my biggest thrill in operating one of our vintage Mantua Pacifics or JEnglish Mikes or another beauty from the past.  There is just something neat about running my restored Varney Yellowstone, hauling a line of 25 wood, cardstock, and metal cars out of the 40's.  And as you said, I wouldn't have a problem one in upgrading them for more "realistic operation and appearance".
                                                                                      
                                                                                    Yardy 
                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                    Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 4:39 PM
                                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Purity vs. Practicality...and Artistry

                                                                                    Dear Yardy,
                                                                                     
                                                                                    When I joined I said to the moderator that I enjoyed finding vintage kits for several reasons. (1) The are not available today from any kit/R-T-R manufacturer (i.e., my O&NW box car); and (2) some structure kits when they provide full-size (for the model) diagrams that can enable me to get newer materials to maybe (a) more easily achieve the model or (b) to relace deteriorated or worn kit components with newer pieces (sometimes requiring total fabrication.)
                                                                                     
                                                                                    If the kit acquisitor builds to operate back in another time-his/her choice. If a modeller upgrades, there is no criticism since the idea is that prototypicality is desired for realistic operation and appearance. Neither "purity" nor "practicality" be devoid of "artistry"...and I think that is the desired end result for both types of modellers but not necessarily "pure collectors".
                                                                                     
                                                                                    John
                                                                                     


                                                                                    Yardbird Trains <danrbush@...> wrote:
                                                                                    Mark,
                                                                                    I'm a "new kid on the block", but I'll through in something here as a huge advocate of vintage model RR'ing.  I believe there are 2 types of vintage model RR hobbyists, those that enjoy using and operating the models the "old way" that dad and maybe grandpa did, and then there are "collectors" who wish to buy and keep models for the enjoyment of display, or passing them on to family, or reselling.  I believe that your question is answered by which you are.
                                                                                     
                                                                                    I have dozens of vintage and extinct models on hand.  As an operator hobbyist, I have no problem adapting a Kadee coupler to a 1942 Varney box car, or putting a newer set of tender trucks on an old Bowser.  I love watching a vintage cast brass loco crawl through the switch yard and imagine how many modelers saw that same thing 50 years ago.  But, I believe that "minor" upgrades to any vintage loco that is purely used for enjoyment is safe.  I also love to add detail to the oldies, and although most didn't come out with side piping and extra add-ons, I love to see those additions on them.  I have an original HO brass Winton Allegheny that is absolutely loaded with piping.  Nothing original about that, but it sure enhances the loco (it will have newer Kadee's on it soon as well).
                                                                                     
                                                                                    On the other hand, I have some models that will be sold to collectors who demand original condition only.  For those, I don't change a thing unless it is an exact replacement part. 
                                                                                    I also tend to keep the very oldest locos I have as original as possible, but again, it's my preference.  Normally, those are worth so much it wouldn't be prudent to change them. 
                                                                                     
                                                                                    I'm sure there are diversities of opinions out there, but I'd say, if you enjoy running them as you obviously do, some upgrading for them to run better is certainly in order. 
                                                                                      
                                                                                    yardy
                                                                                     
                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                    From: mph261
                                                                                    Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 12:49 PM
                                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] Purity vs. Practicality

                                                                                    I know that this is an "age old" question, but it popped in my mind
                                                                                    this weekend as I replaced original Lionel wheelsets with new
                                                                                    Kadees, because the Lionel flanges are so big they're chewing up the
                                                                                    bottom of the caboose.  The question: is it more desirable to keep
                                                                                    things pure at any cost (even if it means to stop running them), or
                                                                                    to make changes that take away the purity of the vintage item?

                                                                                    As far as my Lionel cabooses are concerned, they now sport new
                                                                                    wheelsets and Kadee couplers (which required a modifcation that
                                                                                    prevents the old Lionel NMRA couples from being used again).  I am
                                                                                    content with my decision because running them on my layout is how I
                                                                                    will enjoy them.  Also, I realize that they are not the most vintage
                                                                                    item out there, which adds another twist to the question.  Is it OK
                                                                                    to make this type of change as long is it is not a .... (fill in the
                                                                                    blank with something that is held in extreme respect)?

                                                                                    I really don't expect the group to come to a conclusion, and I would
                                                                                    be surprised if we all see things the smae way on this topic, but I
                                                                                    thought it would be interesting to get some other perspectives
                                                                                    before I do something stupid like install lights in my Aerotrain.

                                                                                    Mark





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                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 855 From: Jack Priller Date: 1/31/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Re: da imp rants about Brass gleam and Vintage upgrades
                                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@y...> wrote:
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > Dear Don,
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > i'm not an electrical engineer, so I would advise you to check
                                                                                    with one who is more expert on what I'm thinking about as a problem.
                                                                                    Two different electric-conductive metals set up a wheatstone bridge
                                                                                    situation, but the point I am getting at is that
                                                                                    > two different metals have different conductivity capabilities.
                                                                                    Well-won't that affect
                                                                                    > operating speeds?
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > John
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    At the low currents required to operate our models, and the
                                                                                    relatively short conductor lengths involed in all but barn-size
                                                                                    layouts, the DIFFERENCE in the voltage drop between the two metals is
                                                                                    negligable. The best way to avoid adversely affecting operating speeds
                                                                                    is to have multiple 'drops' from the track to some 'heavy' copper buss
                                                                                    wires under the layout.
                                                                                    The real difference is that while they both oxidize, the oxide that
                                                                                    forms on NS rail is a conductor, brass oxide is not. So with brass
                                                                                    rail you need to clean it fairly often, or the wear the oxide off by
                                                                                    running trains on it regularly; I recommend EVERY DAY.

                                                                                    :>))

                                                                                    Ye Olde Trolleynut
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 856 From: raymarinaccio Date: 1/31/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Purity vs. Practicality
                                                                                    I find myself wrestling with this question on occasion.
                                                                                    If the piece is in pristine condition. I will leave it alone or
                                                                                    restore it to original near factory condition (or as supposed to be
                                                                                    built if it is a kit).
                                                                                    If parts are missing or a repaint is required I try to restore it to
                                                                                    operating condition using parts and techniques that are of the era it
                                                                                    was produced.
                                                                                    If I already have another one that fits the above criteria or if
                                                                                    it's been butchered I will customize it.
                                                                                    Sometimes it is hard to draw the line between the categories but in
                                                                                    the end it really isn't a big deal, I do this for my own enjoyment,(
                                                                                    they have to be run), not to resell them.

                                                                                    Ray


                                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "mph261" <mph261@y...> wrote:
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > I know that this is an "age old" question, but it popped in my mind
                                                                                    > this weekend as I replaced original Lionel wheelsets with new
                                                                                    > Kadees, because the Lionel flanges are so big they're chewing up
                                                                                    the
                                                                                    > bottom of the caboose. The question: is it more desirable to keep
                                                                                    > things pure at any cost (even if it means to stop running them), or
                                                                                    > to make changes that take away the purity of the vintage item?
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > As far as my Lionel cabooses are concerned, they now sport new
                                                                                    > wheelsets and Kadee couplers (which required a modifcation that
                                                                                    > prevents the old Lionel NMRA couples from being used again). I am
                                                                                    > content with my decision because running them on my layout is how I
                                                                                    > will enjoy them. Also, I realize that they are not the most
                                                                                    vintage
                                                                                    > item out there, which adds another twist to the question. Is it OK
                                                                                    > to make this type of change as long is it is not a .... (fill in
                                                                                    the
                                                                                    > blank with something that is held in extreme respect)?
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > I really don't expect the group to come to a conclusion, and I
                                                                                    would
                                                                                    > be surprised if we all see things the smae way on this topic, but I
                                                                                    > thought it would be interesting to get some other perspectives
                                                                                    > before I do something stupid like install lights in my Aerotrain.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > Mark
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 857 From: Tom Date: 2/1/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Tru Scale Roadbed
                                                                                    I noticed a recent post from Simon inquiring about vintage track. I
                                                                                    have a rather large amount of early 50's Tru Scale roadbed, some new,
                                                                                    the rest used but very serviceable, including numerous turnout and
                                                                                    crossover blocks with brass rail. I am considering adding a
                                                                                    branchline to my layout using this material with the rail replaced
                                                                                    with nickel silver, possibly even trying to handlay the turnouts using
                                                                                    the brass rail as a "template" to fabricate new rail from nickel
                                                                                    silver. A few questions come to mind about this however. Does anyone
                                                                                    in the group have experience with this wooden roadbed, good or bad? I
                                                                                    know that one drawback is that the curve radius is very rigid, 34" is
                                                                                    34" and straight is straight. If you have used it did you use a
                                                                                    subroadbed like 3/4 ply or screw it directly to a riser/cleat? Is
                                                                                    expansion and contraction an issue? My layout is in a finished and
                                                                                    climate controlled attic, however I am in N/E Ohio with humid summers
                                                                                    and dry winters. Any help appreciated.
                                                                                    Tom Businger
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 858 From: Imp Ster Date: 2/1/2006
                                                                                    Subject: #6 turnouts, brass track grime, Amtrak & VRE
                                                                                    a #6 turnout (switch) is same size as the Atlas large "Custom Line".
                                                                                    Shinohara also made #6, along with all their other radii, back when
                                                                                    they had balls.
                                                                                    the #6 turnout is same divergence and aspect as the vintage AHM
                                                                                    (Casadio) Double-slips & 3-Ways.

                                                                                    brass rail corrosion, particularly milled turnout point-rails with
                                                                                    their finely-tapered edges, is indeed an issue that must be adressed in
                                                                                    vintage layouts.
                                                                                    however, i have found that a basic application of heavy oil will
                                                                                    saturate and seal the brass (which is actualy a fairly porous metal).
                                                                                    but, there really is no substitute for regular traffic on the rails.
                                                                                    and the more metal wheels in that traffic, the better.
                                                                                    i remember seeing a quad-loop HO layout gathering dust in the Black
                                                                                    Hills Central depot, all AHM track and turnouts, even though the layout
                                                                                    hadnt been run in years, you could still see the amazing mirror
                                                                                    polishing on the rail-heads of the 4 mainlines.
                                                                                    i'm certain that any engine dropped on those rails wouldnt have had the
                                                                                    least bit of trouble getting juice.
                                                                                    (really cindered my ballast when they junked that layout. grr.)

                                                                                    of course, once that brass gets grim-lined, its mostly downhill from
                                                                                    there.
                                                                                    hence, like the Tin Man, i oil early and often, about once a year.
                                                                                    and it pays off... some of my brass rail still has the new "just
                                                                                    coined" look.

                                                                                    well, gotta go... Amtrak is late again and the natives are getting
                                                                                    restless... if it doesnt show up soon, things could get ugly here at
                                                                                    the Whistle Stop!
                                                                                    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060201/pl_nm/transport_amtrak_dc

                                                                                    btw, if you'd like to peek at my trains in operation, go here
                                                                                    http://www.vre.org/vremap/app?action=ovmap and you can clik on an
                                                                                    individual train icon and watch it progress street by street.

                                                                                    cheers

                                                                                    ...
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 859 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/1/2006
                                                                                    Subject: computer virus
                                                                                    There's a bad computer virus set to happen 2/3. Check out this site.

                                                                                    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,183331,00.html
                                                                                    Chuck aka gramps
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 860 From: don.dellmann Date: 2/1/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Tru Scale Roadbed
                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                    From: Tom <thomasbusinger@...>
                                                                                    To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                    Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 12:47 PM
                                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] Tru Scale Roadbed


                                                                                    > I noticed a recent post from Simon inquiring about vintage track. I
                                                                                    > have a rather large amount of early 50's Tru Scale roadbed, some new,
                                                                                    > the rest used but very serviceable, including numerous turnout and
                                                                                    > crossover blocks with brass rail. I am considering adding a
                                                                                    > branchline to my layout using this material with the rail replaced
                                                                                    > with nickel silver, possibly even trying to handlay the turnouts using
                                                                                    > the brass rail as a "template" to fabricate new rail from nickel
                                                                                    > silver. A few questions come to mind about this however. Does anyone
                                                                                    > in the group have experience with this wooden roadbed, good or bad? I
                                                                                    > know that one drawback is that the curve radius is very rigid, 34" is
                                                                                    > 34" and straight is straight. If you have used it did you use a
                                                                                    > subroadbed like 3/4 ply or screw it directly to a riser/cleat? Is
                                                                                    > expansion and contraction an issue? My layout is in a finished and
                                                                                    > climate controlled attic, however I am in N/E Ohio with humid summers
                                                                                    > and dry winters. Any help appreciated.
                                                                                    > Tom Businger

                                                                                    I've used the Tru-scale a lot, the plain roadbed, the milled ballast board
                                                                                    with the ties, and there's even some "ready-track" on my layout TODAY. I
                                                                                    mount it to a sub roadbed of 1/2" plywood, and have never had a problem. My
                                                                                    very first layout back when I was 12 years old was the milled ballast board
                                                                                    with the rails glued to the ties with Pliobond! (A friend of my Dad's gave
                                                                                    it to us when he heard we were starting in HO).

                                                                                    The only "weird" was in the 1970's or 80's when new owners took over
                                                                                    Tru-Scale and for a time, instead of using pine, they were making it out of
                                                                                    CEDAR. It worked just as well, but was extremely "aromatic" <G>.

                                                                                    Don

                                                                                    don.dellmann@...
                                                                                    http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                    moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
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                                                                                    Don
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 861 From: Thomas Businger Date: 2/1/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Tru Scale Roadbed
                                                                                    Thanks Don.... at least with cedar you didn't have to worry about moths...LOL.
                                                                                    This is mainly Tru Scale with the milled ties, although there is some plain roadbed.  How did you attach the Tru Scale to the 1/2" ply, screws? glue?  Ahhh good old Pliobond, one of my younger brothers about 10 at the time thought it was bearing grease and used it on his bicycle wheel bearings... LOL... (no it wasnt me)  I don't know if I will take the time to drive the individual spikes, not difficult, just time consuming, or glue the rail with CA ?? Again I am concerned with giving it some room to move with temp/humidity.
                                                                                     
                                                                                    BTW there is a seller on E-Bay with quite a few old Varney cars listed.  He also has some that I dont think are Varney, they have metal sides and wooden floors, I thought perhaps incorrectly that Varney was all plastic.
                                                                                     
                                                                                    Thanks for the info Don

                                                                                    "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                                                                    <SNIP>

                                                                                    I've used the Tru-scale a lot, the plain roadbed, the milled ballast board
                                                                                    with the ties, and there's even some "ready-track" on my layout TODAY. I
                                                                                    mount it to a sub roadbed of 1/2" plywood, and have never had a problem. My
                                                                                    very first layout back when I was 12 years old was the milled ballast board
                                                                                    with the rails glued to the ties with Pliobond! (A friend of my Dad's gave
                                                                                    it to us when he heard we were starting in HO).

                                                                                    The only "weird" was in the 1970's or 80's when new owners took over
                                                                                    Tru-Scale and for a time, instead of using pine, they were making it out of
                                                                                    CEDAR. It worked just as well, but was extremely "aromatic" .

                                                                                    Don

                                                                                    don.dellmann@...
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                                                                                    Don






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                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 862 From: don.dellmann Date: 2/1/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Tru Scale Roadbed
                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                    From: Thomas Businger <thomasbusinger@...>
                                                                                    To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                    Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 6:15 PM
                                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Tru Scale Roadbed


                                                                                    > Thanks Don.... at least with cedar you didn't have to worry about
                                                                                    moths...LOL.
                                                                                    > This is mainly Tru Scale with the milled ties, although there is some
                                                                                    plain roadbed. How did you attach the Tru Scale to the 1/2" ply, screws?
                                                                                    glue? Ahhh good old Pliobond, one of my younger brothers about 10 at the
                                                                                    time thought it was bearing grease and used it on his bicycle wheel
                                                                                    bearings... LOL... (no it wasnt me) I don't know if I will take the time to
                                                                                    drive the individual spikes, not difficult, just time consuming, or glue the
                                                                                    rail with CA ?? Again I am concerned with giving it some room to move with
                                                                                    temp/humidity.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > BTW there is a seller on E-Bay with quite a few old Varney cars listed.
                                                                                    He also has some that I dont think are Varney, they have metal sides and
                                                                                    wooden floors, I thought perhaps incorrectly that Varney was all plastic.
                                                                                    >

                                                                                    Originally we screwed the roadbed to the plywood with wood screws, and
                                                                                    covered the screw heads with ballast. Now I nail it down with the smallest
                                                                                    nails I can find.

                                                                                    I doubt CA would work bonding metal to wood. The best would be spikes, and
                                                                                    even with the milled ballast board, I would still use a three point gauge to
                                                                                    keep in in gauge while spiking. Even with the glued rail, we found we had
                                                                                    to use some spikes to keep it in line.

                                                                                    From the early to the late 1950's varney cars were metal, some with wood
                                                                                    floors, some with die cast floors. Prior to that, (ca. 1940's) they were
                                                                                    cardstock and wood. (except the streamlined passenger cars, they had
                                                                                    celluloid sides. {see the two tone blue cars in my albums}).

                                                                                    Don

                                                                                    don.dellmann@...
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                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 863 From: Gerry D Date: 2/1/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Re: computer virus
                                                                                    Speaking of viruses...

                                                                                    A little trick exists for people who had Symantec or
                                                                                    Norton antivirus. I'm telling it here with the hope
                                                                                    that someone may be able to use it untill they renew.

                                                                                    1. change the date on your computer back a few years.
                                                                                    2. download the .exe type of update from Symantec.
                                                                                    http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/defs.download.html

                                                                                    It should be: 20060201-021-i32.exe (today's)
                                                                                    (Tomorrow's, if they release one, will be
                                                                                    20060202-021-i32.exe )

                                                                                    3 run it.

                                                                                    Since you backdated your computer, it thinks your
                                                                                    protection has not run out and installs updates as
                                                                                    normal.

                                                                                    4. Reset your computer's date to the present.

                                                                                    Run the antiviris scan.

                                                                                    OR....

                                                                                    McAfee has a FREE online virus scan available here:
                                                                                    http://us.mcafee.com/root/mfs/default.asp?cid=9913

                                                                                    Personally, I would not trust any other virus scan
                                                                                    people other than these.

                                                                                    I get mine for free from where I work, legitimately.

                                                                                    Check into it my friends...

                                                                                    Gerry

                                                                                    --- Chuck Svihlik <c_t_j_dad@...> wrote:

                                                                                    > There's a bad computer virus set to happen 2/3.
                                                                                    > Check out this site.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,183331,00.html
                                                                                    > Chuck aka gramps
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >


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                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 864 From: Garry Spear Date: 2/1/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Tru Scale Roadbed
                                                                                    Tom,

                                                                                    Tru Scale can be flexed. Cut 1/2 to 2/3 of the roadbed from side to
                                                                                    side every 3-4-5 ties. The road bed can the be bent towards the side
                                                                                    where the cut was made.

                                                                                    My layout has: Atlas flex, Atlas Snap track at a lift bridge, Midlin,
                                                                                    Peco, Peco Switches, Casado (sp?) switches, Shinarao switches, Peco
                                                                                    switches, Nickel Plate #7 Switches, Atlas #8 (Ready Track??) switches
                                                                                    (some plastic some fiber ties, all brass rail), and about a 3' curved
                                                                                    section of Tru Scale track in the mains..

                                                                                    All mainline track is Nickel Silver, excepting the Midlin track and
                                                                                    some switches. These are 3 Casado 4 way slip switches and one 3 way
                                                                                    Casado slip switch; all brass in the main. There are about 5 brass
                                                                                    Atlas #8s in the main. Additionaly there are about 12-16 Nickel silver
                                                                                    Shinarao switches in the main.

                                                                                    I have been operation this layout four about 20 years with no problems
                                                                                    with different rail material. The layout is about 20 x 20 around the
                                                                                    room, lots of running to polish the rail.

                                                                                    Garry


                                                                                    On 2/1/06, Tom <thomasbusinger@...> wrote:
                                                                                    > I noticed a recent post from Simon inquiring about vintage track. I
                                                                                    > have a rather large amount of early 50's Tru Scale roadbed, some new,
                                                                                    > the rest used but very serviceable, including numerous turnout and
                                                                                    > crossover blocks with brass rail. I am considering adding a
                                                                                    > branchline to my layout using this material with the rail replaced
                                                                                    > with nickel silver, possibly even trying to handlay the turnouts using
                                                                                    > the brass rail as a "template" to fabricate new rail from nickel
                                                                                    > silver. A few questions come to mind about this however. Does anyone
                                                                                    > in the group have experience with this wooden roadbed, good or bad? I
                                                                                    > know that one drawback is that the curve radius is very rigid, 34" is
                                                                                    > 34" and straight is straight. If you have used it did you use a
                                                                                    > subroadbed like 3/4 ply or screw it directly to a riser/cleat? Is
                                                                                    > expansion and contraction an issue? My layout is in a finished and
                                                                                    > climate controlled attic, however I am in N/E Ohio with humid summers
                                                                                    > and dry winters. Any help appreciated.
                                                                                    > Tom Businger
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 865 From: don.dellmann Date: 2/2/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Tru Scale Roadbed
                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                    From: Garry Spear <garrettspear@...>
                                                                                    To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                    Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 10:33 PM
                                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Tru Scale Roadbed


                                                                                    > Tom,
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > Tru Scale can be flexed. Cut 1/2 to 2/3 of the roadbed from side to
                                                                                    > side every 3-4-5 ties. The road bed can the be bent towards the side
                                                                                    > where the cut was made.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > My layout has: Atlas flex, Atlas Snap track at a lift bridge, Midlin,
                                                                                    > Peco, Peco Switches, Casado (sp?) switches, Shinarao switches, Peco
                                                                                    > switches, Nickel Plate #7 Switches, Atlas #8 (Ready Track??) switches
                                                                                    > (some plastic some fiber ties, all brass rail), and about a 3' curved
                                                                                    > section of Tru Scale track in the mains..
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > All mainline track is Nickel Silver, excepting the Midlin track and
                                                                                    > some switches. These are 3 Casado 4 way slip switches and one 3 way
                                                                                    > Casado slip switch; all brass in the main. There are about 5 brass
                                                                                    > Atlas #8s in the main. Additionaly there are about 12-16 Nickel silver
                                                                                    > Shinarao switches in the main.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > I have been operation this layout four about 20 years with no problems
                                                                                    > with different rail material. The layout is about 20 x 20 around the
                                                                                    > room, lots of running to polish the rail.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > Garry

                                                                                    Tru-Scale sold a product called "super-flex" that had the slots pre-cut,
                                                                                    about 2/3 of the way through, on about 1" spacing, alternating sides. It
                                                                                    had a paper tape backing to keep it from breaking, but it usually split on
                                                                                    me anyway :-(

                                                                                    I have some brass rail on fibre tie strip, but only in the storage tracks in
                                                                                    the yard.

                                                                                    Don

                                                                                    don.dellmann@...
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                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 866 From: whistlestop2000 Date: 2/2/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Tru-scale roadbed
                                                                                    Hi,

                                                                                    Thanks to everyone who replied to my post about vintage track. Some
                                                                                    very good advice there. Lots of different appropaches, eh?

                                                                                    I hope this isn't a dumb question, but how exactly do you use the Tru-
                                                                                    scale milled roadbed? I understand the stuff with the milled
                                                                                    sleepers, whoops crossties, but what about the plain stuff. Is it
                                                                                    simply to represent ballast underneath regular track?

                                                                                    Incidentaly, I remember seeing this milled roadbed track in my
                                                                                    favorite train store in Oz back in the 60's.

                                                                                    I was surprised that you mentioned Tru-scale in the 70's/80's- I
                                                                                    thought it may have passed into history by then. What was the
                                                                                    connection between Tru-scale and Silver Streak?

                                                                                    Cheers, Simon
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 867 From: Roger Aultman Date: 2/2/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Tru-scale roadbed
                                                                                    Trout Creek Enginmeering lists Tru-Scale road bed at:

                                                                                    http://www.troutcreekeng.com/bkho.html

                                                                                    Roger Aultman







                                                                                    whistlestop2000 wrote:
                                                                                    > Hi,
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > Thanks to everyone who replied to my post about vintage track. Some
                                                                                    > very good advice there. Lots of different appropaches, eh?
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > I hope this isn't a dumb question, but how exactly do you use the Tru-
                                                                                    > scale milled roadbed? I understand the stuff with the milled
                                                                                    > sleepers, whoops crossties, but what about the plain stuff. Is it
                                                                                    > simply to represent ballast underneath regular track?
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > Incidentaly, I remember seeing this milled roadbed track in my
                                                                                    > favorite train store in Oz back in the 60's.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > I was surprised that you mentioned Tru-scale in the 70's/80's- I
                                                                                    > thought it may have passed into history by then. What was the
                                                                                    > connection between Tru-scale and Silver Streak?
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > Cheers, Simon
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >


                                                                                    --
                                                                                    http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

                                                                                    Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 868 From: don.dellmann Date: 2/2/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Tru-scale roadbed
                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                    From: whistlestop2000 <whistlestop@...>
                                                                                    To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                    Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 5:43 AM
                                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] Tru-scale roadbed


                                                                                    > Hi,
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > Thanks to everyone who replied to my post about vintage track. Some
                                                                                    > very good advice there. Lots of different appropaches, eh?
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > I hope this isn't a dumb question, but how exactly do you use the Tru-
                                                                                    > scale milled roadbed? I understand the stuff with the milled
                                                                                    > sleepers, whoops crossties, but what about the plain stuff. Is it
                                                                                    > simply to represent ballast underneath regular track?
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > Incidentaly, I remember seeing this milled roadbed track in my
                                                                                    > favorite train store in Oz back in the 60's.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > I was surprised that you mentioned Tru-scale in the 70's/80's- I
                                                                                    > thought it may have passed into history by then. What was the
                                                                                    > connection between Tru-scale and Silver Streak?
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > Cheers, Simon

                                                                                    Tru-Scale is still made today. The plain roadbed is used under flex track
                                                                                    or hand laid track just like any other form of roadbed, such as cork, or the
                                                                                    woodland scenics foam. Incidentally, Campbell also made a pine roadbed that
                                                                                    was compatable with Tru-Scale, not sure if it's still available or not, what
                                                                                    with Leo wanting to retire.

                                                                                    Back in the 1950's & '60's, "Silver Streak" freight car kits were made by
                                                                                    Tru-Scale. ca. 1970 or so (and I'm typing this from my own memories which
                                                                                    may admittedly be foggy after 40 years), the freight car line was sold to
                                                                                    "G&G Hobby Supply" who also got the Athearn metal line. Then, the Athearn
                                                                                    cars became "Menzies", and "Silver Streak" was sold to Walthers. Around the
                                                                                    mid 80's, Walthers dumped the Silver Streak cars, which resurfaced a year or
                                                                                    two later as part of the "Ye Olde Huff 'n Puff" line. Again, with an owner
                                                                                    who either wants to retire or already has, their future is very much in
                                                                                    doubt.

                                                                                    Tru-Scale also did some plastic versions of their Silver Streak work train
                                                                                    cars, which became the basis for the "Train Miniature" line, which also
                                                                                    eventually went to Walthers, part of their "Trainline" line today. Some
                                                                                    Tru-Scale structure kits also became part of the Suydam structure line.

                                                                                    Don

                                                                                    don.dellmann@...
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                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 869 From: Thomas Businger Date: 2/2/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Tru-scale roadbed
                                                                                    Simon, Thank you for asking and getting me thinking about the large box of Tru-Scale stashed away.  The plain roadbed without  the sleepers.. uhh ties, is for use with flex track, replaces the cork roadbed.  Tom Businger, Cleveland Ohio

                                                                                    whistlestop2000 <whistlestop@...> wrote:
                                                                                    Hi,

                                                                                    Thanks to everyone who replied to my post about vintage track. Some
                                                                                    very good advice there. Lots of different appropaches, eh?

                                                                                    I hope this isn't a dumb question, but how exactly do you use the Tru-
                                                                                    scale milled roadbed? I understand the stuff with the milled
                                                                                    sleepers, whoops crossties, but what about the plain stuff. Is it
                                                                                    simply to represent ballast underneath regular track?

                                                                                    Incidentaly, I remember seeing this milled roadbed track in my
                                                                                    favorite train store in Oz back in the 60's.

                                                                                    I was surprised that you mentioned Tru-scale in the 70's/80's- I
                                                                                    thought it may have passed into history by then. What was the
                                                                                    connection between Tru-scale and Silver Streak?

                                                                                    Cheers, Simon









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                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 870 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/4/2006
                                                                                    Subject: New photo
                                                                                    Hello, This is to let you know that I just started a photo album
                                                                                    (gramps) thus far only one photo of my Varney Berk. The unpainted parts
                                                                                    are actual replacement parts that I bought from Yardbird Trains. Yardy
                                                                                    is a member of this group and has been very helpful in my pursuit to
                                                                                    complete this loco.There will be more photos added of my other projects
                                                                                    as time permits,until then happiness is working on vintage trains in
                                                                                    Forreston, IL.
                                                                                    Chuck aka gramps
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 871 From: Jack Priller Date: 2/4/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Milled roadbed question
                                                                                    I know we've been discussing the Tru-scale roadbed this past week,
                                                                                    but I do have just one more question. Well hopefully only one. I just
                                                                                    uploaded a picture, "milled roadbed", to the Jack's Junque photo
                                                                                    album. Shows two pieces of roadbed with track; the near one is Tru-
                                                                                    scale, says so on the bottom, the far one is bare wood on the bottom.
                                                                                    Note the difference in tie size and spacing, and that the spacing
                                                                                    increases from left to right. Piece is about two feet long and the
                                                                                    spacing increases from about 1/2" center-to-center at the left end to
                                                                                    almost an inch at the right end. Is this maybe some small company's
                                                                                    version on On30 roadbed?

                                                                                    Jack Priller
                                                                                    aka
                                                                                    Ye olde Trolleynut
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 872 From: frank Date: 2/5/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Just back from the Dover NJ train show.
                                                                                    New aqusitions: Aristo-Craft 4-6-0 Casey Jones (brass loco)and I don't
                                                                                    know just yet, NYC 4-4-0 brass. Probably International.
                                                                                    I don't have any notion that they are running locomotives. I just know
                                                                                    they look good. The Casey Jones looks a little big. Maybe body is OO.
                                                                                    Both are from late 50's.
                                                                                    A good day was had by all I hope!
                                                                                    Frank O
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 873 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/5/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Help identify this loco
                                                                                    Hello, I have what I believe may be a very old Varney 2-8-0. This was a
                                                                                    part of what my dad had when he passed on in 1992. However there are no
                                                                                    markings to be found anywhere.The boiler is not diecast, but is solid
                                                                                    lead, the frame is soldered brass the cylinders & pilot appear to be
                                                                                    diecast.The drivers have brass rims and each set is in a bearing that
                                                                                    is soldered to the frame. There is no plate on the bottom of the frame.
                                                                                    It is missing the smoke box front and the 2 ladders from the pilot deck
                                                                                    to the boiler, but otherwise it is all there. The motor was removed
                                                                                    but I have several old Pittmans that will fit. Any info on this would
                                                                                    be greatly appreciated.I've posted some photos in my album (gramps)
                                                                                    Thanks and happy railroading.
                                                                                    Chuck aka gramps
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 874 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/5/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Just back from the Dover NJ train show.
                                                                                    Frank, sounds like you did good. is the NYC 4-4-0 the 999. I have one that I bought many years ago, and it is a great runner. I had the Casey Jones and it was also a beauty.
                                                                                    Chuck

                                                                                    frank <toptrain1@...> wrote:
                                                                                    New aqusitions: Aristo-Craft 4-6-0 Casey Jones (brass loco)and I don't
                                                                                    know just yet, NYC 4-4-0 brass. Probably International.
                                                                                    I don't have any notion that they are running locomotives. I just know
                                                                                    they look good. The Casey Jones looks a little big. Maybe body is OO.
                                                                                    Both are from late 50's.
                                                                                    A good day was had by all I hope!
                                                                                                 Frank O





                                                                                    Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!

                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 875 From: frank Date: 2/5/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Milled roadbed question
                                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Priller" <westpac67@...> wrote:
                                                                                    > Jack :::: Could be, might be, maybe. Who knows! It even looks like
                                                                                    the tie spaceing changes in the right side 1/4.
                                                                                    Not much help Frank O
                                                                                    > I know we've been discussing the Tru-scale roadbed this past week,
                                                                                    > but I do have just one more question. Well hopefully only one. I just
                                                                                    > uploaded a picture, "milled roadbed", to the Jack's Junque photo
                                                                                    > album. Shows two pieces of roadbed with track; the near one is Tru-
                                                                                    > scale, says so on the bottom, the far one is bare wood on the bottom.
                                                                                    > Note the difference in tie size and spacing, and that the spacing
                                                                                    > increases from left to right. Piece is about two feet long and the
                                                                                    > spacing increases from about 1/2" center-to-center at the left end to
                                                                                    > almost an inch at the right end. Is this maybe some small company's
                                                                                    > version on On30 roadbed?
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > Jack Priller
                                                                                    > aka
                                                                                    > Ye olde Trolleynut
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 876 From: frank Date: 2/5/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Just back from the Dover NJ train show.
                                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Chuck Svihlik <c_t_j_dad@...> wrote:
                                                                                    > Chuck :::I'll get some photos in later.
                                                                                    Frank O
                                                                                    > Frank, sounds like you did good. is the NYC 4-4-0 the 999. I have
                                                                                    one that I bought many years ago, and it is a great runner. I had the
                                                                                    Casey Jones and it was also a beauty.
                                                                                    > Chuck
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > frank <toptrain1@...> wrote:
                                                                                    > New aqusitions: Aristo-Craft 4-6-0 Casey Jones (brass loco)and I
                                                                                    don't
                                                                                    > know just yet, NYC 4-4-0 brass. Probably International.
                                                                                    > I don't have any notion that they are running locomotives. I just
                                                                                    know
                                                                                    > they look good. The Casey Jones looks a little big. Maybe body is
                                                                                    OO.
                                                                                    > Both are from late 50's.
                                                                                    > A good day was had by all I hope!
                                                                                    > Frank O
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
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                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 877 From: frank Date: 2/5/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Help identify this loco
                                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Svihlik" <c_t_j_dad@...> wrote:
                                                                                    > CHUCK ::: It is the old Cast Varney Reading Consolidation. A old
                                                                                    piece of work. Not like the Bachmann model that broke after a few hours
                                                                                    of running. Varney over built them. It used a pitman motor. Bowser will
                                                                                    sell you anything you need for it.
                                                                                    Get it going Frank O
                                                                                    > Hello, I have what I believe may be a very old Varney 2-8-0. This was
                                                                                    a
                                                                                    > part of what my dad had when he passed on in 1992. However there are
                                                                                    no
                                                                                    > markings to be found anywhere.The boiler is not diecast, but is solid
                                                                                    > lead, the frame is soldered brass the cylinders & pilot appear to be
                                                                                    > diecast.The drivers have brass rims and each set is in a bearing that
                                                                                    > is soldered to the frame. There is no plate on the bottom of the
                                                                                    frame.
                                                                                    > It is missing the smoke box front and the 2 ladders from the pilot
                                                                                    deck
                                                                                    > to the boiler, but otherwise it is all there. The motor was removed
                                                                                    > but I have several old Pittmans that will fit. Any info on this would
                                                                                    > be greatly appreciated.I've posted some photos in my album (gramps)
                                                                                    > Thanks and happy railroading.
                                                                                    > Chuck aka gramps
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 878 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/5/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Help identify this loco
                                                                                    Frank, WOW that's what i call fast response time. Thank you very much.I'll check Boswer
                                                                                    Chuck

                                                                                    frank <toptrain1@...> wrote:
                                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Svihlik" <c_t_j_dad@...> wrote:
                                                                                    > CHUCK ::: It is the old Cast Varney Reading Consolidation. A old
                                                                                    piece of work. Not like the Bachmann model that broke after a few hours
                                                                                    of running. Varney over built them. It used a pitman motor. Bowser will
                                                                                    sell you anything you need for it.
                                                                                                 Get it going  Frank O
                                                                                    >






                                                                                    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS






                                                                                    Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!

                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 879 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 2/5/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Help identify this loco
                                                                                    Hello, Gramps!
                                                                                     
                                                                                    That's a great looking Consolidation.  They can really be tuned up to pull! 
                                                                                    Varney also showed one made into an 0-8-0 Switcher which makes a nice addition to the vintage roster.  We've got one here like that with the Varney slantback tender attached.  It has the front step unit in place of the regular pilot.  More power than needed from a switcher, but nice to work with. 
                                                                                     
                                                                                    I'm out of the ladders until the week of the 19th, but we've got the smokebox fronts ($4.95) if you can't find them at Bowser.
                                                                                     
                                                                                    I'd like to see a pic of it when you get it done.
                                                                                     
                                                                                    Yardy
                                                                                     
                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                    Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2006 12:03 PM
                                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Help identify this loco

                                                                                    Frank, WOW that's what i call fast response time. Thank you very much.I'll check Boswer
                                                                                    Chuck

                                                                                    frank <toptrain1@...> wrote:
                                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Svihlik" <c_t_j_dad@...> wrote:
                                                                                    > CHUCK ::: It is the old Cast Varney Reading Consolidation. A old
                                                                                    piece of work. Not like the Bachmann model that broke after a few hours
                                                                                    of running. Varney over built them. It used a pitman motor. Bowser will
                                                                                    sell you anything you need for it.
                                                                                                 Get it going  Frank O
                                                                                    >




                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 880 From: Larry Date: 2/5/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Help identify this loco
                                                                                    Hello Gramps

                                                                                    This link may help you with your 2-8-0 if any maintence is required.
                                                                                    http://www.hoseeker.net/otherhotrains.html
                                                                                    Nice Find!
                                                                                    Larry
                                                                                    http://www.hoseeker.net/



                                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Svihlik" <c_t_j_dad@...> wrote:
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > Hello, I have what I believe may be a very old Varney 2-8-0. This was
                                                                                    a
                                                                                    > part of what my dad had when he passed on in 1992. However there are
                                                                                    no
                                                                                    > markings to be found anywhere.The boiler is not diecast, but is solid
                                                                                    > lead, the frame is soldered brass the cylinders & pilot appear to be
                                                                                    > diecast.The drivers have brass rims and each set is in a bearing that
                                                                                    > is soldered to the frame. There is no plate on the bottom of the
                                                                                    frame.
                                                                                    > It is missing the smoke box front and the 2 ladders from the pilot
                                                                                    deck
                                                                                    > to the boiler, but otherwise it is all there. The motor was removed
                                                                                    > but I have several old Pittmans that will fit. Any info on this would
                                                                                    > be greatly appreciated.I've posted some photos in my album (gramps)
                                                                                    > Thanks and happy railroading.
                                                                                    > Chuck aka gramps
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 881 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/5/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Help identify this loco
                                                                                    Thanks Larry, that's a great site, I can spend hours on it. That's my loco Varney 2-8-0 built 1951. Thanks alot this really helps me not only with this but many of the other project locos I have
                                                                                    Gramps

                                                                                    Larry <seekingho@...> wrote:
                                                                                    Hello Gramps

                                                                                    This link may help you with your 2-8-0 if any maintence is required.
                                                                                    http://www.hoseeker.net/otherhotrains.html
                                                                                    Nice Find!
                                                                                    Larry
                                                                                    http://www.hoseeker.net/



                                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Svihlik" <c_t_j_dad@...> wrote:
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > Hello, I have what I believe may be a very old Varney 2-8-0. This was
                                                                                    a
                                                                                    > part of what my dad had when he passed on in 1992. However there are
                                                                                    no
                                                                                    > markings to be found anywhere.The boiler is not diecast, but is solid
                                                                                    > lead, the frame is soldered brass the cylinders & pilot appear to be
                                                                                    > diecast.The drivers have brass rims and each set is in a bearing that
                                                                                    > is soldered to the frame. There is no plate on the bottom of the
                                                                                    frame.
                                                                                    > It is missing the smoke box front and the 2 ladders from the pilot
                                                                                    deck
                                                                                    > to the boiler, but otherwise it is all there. The motor was removed
                                                                                    > but I have several old Pittmans that will fit. Any info on this would
                                                                                    > be greatly appreciated.I've posted some photos in my album (gramps)
                                                                                    > Thanks and happy railroading.
                                                                                    > Chuck aka gramps
                                                                                    >






                                                                                    Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!

                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 882 From: erieberk Date: 2/5/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Help identify this loco
                                                                                    Chuck, While Varney did make a Reading Consolidation (pre-War only),
                                                                                    what you have is Varney's Standard (Economy) Heavy Consolidation; it
                                                                                    dfoesn't have the wide Wooten firebox like the Reading had. Not a big
                                                                                    deal, but its good to know the proper ID in case you need parts. The
                                                                                    kit number is #2721-K. Nice engine, by the way, and a good puller.
                                                                                    Regards, Ray W.
                                                                                    \ --
                                                                                    - In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Svihlik" <c_t_j_dad@...> wrote:
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > Hello, I have what I believe may be a very old Varney 2-8-0. This was
                                                                                    a
                                                                                    > part of what my dad had when he passed on in 1992. However there are
                                                                                    no
                                                                                    > markings to be found anywhere.The boiler is not diecast, but is solid
                                                                                    > lead, the frame is soldered brass the cylinders & pilot appear to be
                                                                                    > diecast.The drivers have brass rims and each set is in a bearing that
                                                                                    > is soldered to the frame. There is no plate on the bottom of the
                                                                                    frame.
                                                                                    > It is missing the smoke box front and the 2 ladders from the pilot
                                                                                    deck
                                                                                    > to the boiler, but otherwise it is all there. The motor was removed
                                                                                    > but I have several old Pittmans that will fit. Any info on this would
                                                                                    > be greatly appreciated.I've posted some photos in my album (gramps)
                                                                                    > Thanks and happy railroading.
                                                                                    > Chuck aka gramps
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 883 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/5/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Help identify this loco
                                                                                    Thanks Ray, I was able to find a parts diagram for this loco,and have installed the motor. This group is great, whenever anyone including myself needs help, everyone is there.It will be awhile to get it done, but I will post a photo of the completed loco.Thank you again for your help.
                                                                                    chuck aka Gramps

                                                                                    erieberk <erieberk@...> wrote:
                                                                                    Chuck,  While Varney did make a Reading Consolidation (pre-War only),
                                                                                    what you have is Varney's Standard (Economy) Heavy Consolidation; it
                                                                                    dfoesn't have the wide Wooten firebox like the Reading had.  Not a big
                                                                                    deal, but its good to know the proper ID in case you need parts.  The
                                                                                    kit number is #2721-K.  Nice engine, by the way, and a good puller. 
                                                                                    Regards,  Ray W.                                                      
                                                                                    \                                                                     --
                                                                                    - In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Svihlik" <c_t_j_dad@...> wrote:
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >







                                                                                    Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.

                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 884 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/5/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Help identify this loco
                                                                                    Thanks Ray, I was able to find a parts diagram for this loco,and have installed the motor. This group is great, whenever anyone including myself needs help, everyone is there.It will be awhile to get it done, but I will post a photo of the completed loco.Thank you again for your help.
                                                                                    chuck aka Gramps

                                                                                    erieberk <erieberk@...> wrote:
                                                                                    Chuck,  While Varney did make a Reading Consolidation (pre-War only),
                                                                                    what you have is Varney's Standard (Economy) Heavy Consolidation; it
                                                                                    dfoesn't have the wide Wooten firebox like the Reading had.  Not a big
                                                                                    deal, but its good to know the proper ID in case you need parts.  The
                                                                                    kit number is #2721-K.  Nice engine, by the way, and a good puller. 
                                                                                    Regards,  Ray W.                                                      
                                                                                    \                                                                     --
                                                                                    - In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Svihlik" <c_t_j_dad@...> wrote:
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >







                                                                                    Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!

                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 885 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/6/2006
                                                                                    Subject: eBay
                                                                                    Check this out, a Varney Yellowstone.
                                                                                    gramps
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 886 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/6/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Re: eBay
                                                                                    I forgot to put in the number, sorry.6034915637.
                                                                                    gramps


                                                                                    Chuck Svihlik <c_t_j_dad@...> wrote:
                                                                                    Check this out, a Varney Yellowstone.
                                                                                    gramps





                                                                                    Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.

                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 887 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/6/2006
                                                                                    Subject: eBay
                                                                                    Sorry guys somebody already bought it. I tried.
                                                                                    Gramps
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 888 From: Imp Ster Date: 2/6/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Lois Scruggs obit
                                                                                    NASHVILLE (AP) - Louise Scruggs, whose business savvy helped banjo
                                                                                    great Earl Scruggs' career flourish, was remembered Monday in a
                                                                                    memorial service at the auditorium where they first met.

                                                                                    Dwight Yoakam, Billy Bob Thornton, Travis Tritt, Vince Gill and many
                                                                                    others spoke or performed during the ceremony at the historic Ryman
                                                                                    Auditorium. Others in attendance included Marty Stuart, Ricky Skaggs,
                                                                                    Bela Fleck, Del McCoury and Bill Anderson.

                                                                                    Each described her cool demeanour.

                                                                                    "When I first met Louise, I was scared to death of her," Thornton
                                                                                    said. "I didn't want to say the wrong thing."

                                                                                    But Scruggs was warm and humorous with those she knew well.

                                                                                    "If she liked you and thought a lot of you, she'd let you know it,"
                                                                                    Tritt said.

                                                                                    As the wife and manager of banjo player Earl Scruggs, Louise Scruggs
                                                                                    helped expand the audience for bluegrass and country music. She died
                                                                                    Thursday at age 78.

                                                                                    The two married in 1948, two years after they met while he was
                                                                                    performing at the Grand Ole Opry with bluegrass legend Bill Monroe
                                                                                    and she was a member of the audience.

                                                                                    Her husband left Monroe to form Flatt & Scruggs with guitarist and
                                                                                    singer Lester Flatt, and Louise Scruggs took over their business
                                                                                    dealings in 1955. Mick Buck, a curator at the Country Music Hall of
                                                                                    Fame, called her the first professional manager in country music.

                                                                                    "Wherever Gabriel may be blowing his horn . . ., you can bank on it
                                                                                    that there's a sign on the marquee that says 'Under new
                                                                                    management,' " Rev. Will Campbell said.

                                                                                    Scruggs' three-finger banjo picking style invigorated country music,
                                                                                    a term he and his wife preferred over bluegrass. But Louise Scruggs
                                                                                    saw opportunities to expand her husband's audience beyond country,
                                                                                    first with the folk movement of the 1950s and later with rock fans.

                                                                                    Louise Scruggs almost rejected the chance for Flatt & Scruggs to
                                                                                    record one of its best-known songs, The Ballad of Jed Clampett, the
                                                                                    theme for The Beverly Hillbillies.

                                                                                    She objected to the term "hillbilly" and feared the TV series, which
                                                                                    ran from 1962 to 1971, would stereotype rural southerners. She
                                                                                    changed her mind after producers sent her a pilot episode.

                                                                                    Scruggs also oversaw the deal that put the Flatt & Scruggs
                                                                                    instrumental Foggy Mountain Breakdown on the soundtrack of the 1967
                                                                                    film Bonnie and Clyde.

                                                                                    http://news.yahoo.com/news?
                                                                                    tmpl=story&cid=1832&ncid=1832&e=5&u=/cpress/20060207/ca_pr_on_en/scrug
                                                                                    gs_funeral

                                                                                    ...

                                                                                    (da imp sez, see Files

                                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files

                                                                                    for the .wav of Flatt - Scruggs' iconic Wabash Cannonball.

                                                                                    for many more Scruggs - Flatt .wavs including the original Petticoat
                                                                                    Junction, plus a treasure trove of vintage railroad songs among many
                                                                                    others, see this extensive online archive:

                                                                                    http://www.pcdon.com/country_comfort.html

                                                                                    alas, another flag has fallen... )

                                                                                    ...
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 889 From: whistlestop2000 Date: 2/7/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Re: #6 turnouts, brass track grime, Amtrak & VRE
                                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Imp Ster" <iimpster@...> wrote:
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > brass rail corrosion, particularly milled turnout point-rails with
                                                                                    > their finely-tapered edges, is indeed an issue that must be
                                                                                    adressed in
                                                                                    > vintage layouts.
                                                                                    > however, i have found that a basic application of heavy oil will
                                                                                    > saturate and seal the brass (which is actualy a fairly porous
                                                                                    metal).
                                                                                    > but, there really is no substitute for regular traffic on the
                                                                                    rails.
                                                                                    > and the more metal wheels in that traffic, the better.


                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > Since I'm not one to re-invent the wheel, can you let me know what
                                                                                    sort of oil you have found works best for keeping the brass rail
                                                                                    nice and shiny?

                                                                                    Thanks, Simon


                                                                                    > of course, once that brass gets grim-lined, its mostly downhill
                                                                                    from
                                                                                    > there.
                                                                                    > hence, like the Tin Man, i oil early and often, about once a year.
                                                                                    > and it pays off... some of my brass rail still has the new "just
                                                                                    > coined" look.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060201/pl_nm/transport_amtrak_dc
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > btw, if you'd like to peek at my trains in operation, go here
                                                                                    > http://www.vre.org/vremap/app?action=ovmap and you can clik on an
                                                                                    > individual train icon and watch it progress street by street.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > cheers
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > ...
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 890 From: kurt youngmann Date: 2/7/2006
                                                                                    Subject: howell day
                                                                                    For anyone interested in a real trip down Nostalgia Lane, check out
                                                                                    the February issue of Scale Rails and NMRA Bulletin.

                                                                                    There's a fine article about pioneer model railroad manufacturer
                                                                                    Howell Day.

                                                                                    Kurt Youngmann
                                                                                    SKP Lines
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 891 From: Imp Ster Date: 2/7/2006
                                                                                    Subject: for Simon: da imp rants on oil for brass ( & zinc) protection
                                                                                    greets Simon -

                                                                                    i have found that common 20-40 wt motor oil, $0.98 the generic quart at
                                                                                    WalMart, is an excellent basic lube-sealant for vintage (& new) metal
                                                                                    items such as rail and castings.
                                                                                    the hobby shops will also have several grades of oil which is safe for
                                                                                    plastic items.
                                                                                    aged zinc in particular really needs something to stop oxidation and
                                                                                    inevitable expansion.
                                                                                    ( i cringe when i see vintage zinc models striped of paint for display
                                                                                    and left un-treated - you can see the powdery oxates
                                                                                    accumulating! .."expansion doom" is drawing nigh !! )

                                                                                    anyway, for brass rail, i like to apply it rather generously with a
                                                                                    small brush, making sure the rail sides are coated more than the head.
                                                                                    (note: the vintage Atlas plastic ties seem to benefit from such oil,
                                                                                    but certain cheap styrenes such as Life-Likes, will soften when exposed
                                                                                    to petroleum products, so use caution when applying any petro product
                                                                                    to any plastic... test on scrap first)

                                                                                    do not run any trains on the freshly-oiled rail.
                                                                                    allow the oil to seep for a day or so then wipe off the excess with a
                                                                                    clean shop rag or equiv.
                                                                                    once the oil "settles", you will not really notice much slipperiness or
                                                                                    residue.
                                                                                    however you may immediately notice that the brass takes on an
                                                                                    interesting "freshly minted" effect, excepting areas with severe
                                                                                    corrosion.
                                                                                    this Mop-n-Glo effect lasts for several years in protected environments!

                                                                                    another note: to effectively strip excess oil or crusty grime from
                                                                                    mainline rails, dab a bit of common kerosene or lamp oil on several
                                                                                    points along the track ahead of a looping train.
                                                                                    the wheels will pick up the kero and carry it over the system, engine
                                                                                    slipping a lot at first, but the final effect will be mirror-polished
                                                                                    railheads (run the trains until the kero slime is quite gone... about
                                                                                    20 minutes on a typical 4x8 loop, extrapolate for larger layouts)
                                                                                    kero or lamp oil will not as a rule affect styrene ties, but do not in
                                                                                    any case use other strong solvents or petro distilates such as Xylol,
                                                                                    Xylene or acetone etc... your sleepers will dissolve into a sticky mess
                                                                                    of liquid plastic goo.
                                                                                    denatured alcohol is another effective cleaning agent with no residue.
                                                                                    at first the rail will be sloppy with kero and grime sludge, but as
                                                                                    repeated traffic displaces the sludge and it begins to dry off, the
                                                                                    rail itself will become quite clear of even well-caked grime.
                                                                                    car lighting that once flickered maddeningly will become quite constant
                                                                                    and engines will find similar electrical contact improvement.

                                                                                    zinc items can be effectively "immortalised" by saturating with medium-
                                                                                    heavy oil during assembly.
                                                                                    this of course makes most forms of painting impossible, so an
                                                                                    alternative method is to assemble and paint zinc items with a permanent
                                                                                    laquer finish, then lightly oil the entire item occasionaly once the
                                                                                    paint has well set.
                                                                                    the old masters used to bake their (metal) painted items but this can
                                                                                    be a touchy proceedure..

                                                                                    well enough of a rant, i'd say.
                                                                                    sometimes i feel like the Tin Man is the only one who really
                                                                                    understands!

                                                                                    cheers

                                                                                    ...



                                                                                    > however, i have found that a basic application of heavy oil will
                                                                                    > saturate and seal the brass (which is actualy a fairly porous
                                                                                    metal).
                                                                                    > but, there really is no substitute for regular traffic on the
                                                                                    rails.
                                                                                    > and the more metal wheels in that traffic, the better.


                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > Since I'm not one to re-invent the wheel, can you let me know what
                                                                                    sort of oil you have found works best for keeping the brass rail
                                                                                    nice and shiny?

                                                                                    Thanks, Simon

                                                                                    ...
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 892 From: frank Date: 2/8/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Photos added to Frank o toptrain album
                                                                                    4 photos added. 2 are of a pair of brass and cast Mantua 0-4-0c's I am
                                                                                    rebuilding. The next a International brass NYC 4-4-0 #999. The forth is
                                                                                    a Aristo Craft model of the Cassey Jones.
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 893 From: Rob Quagan Date: 2/8/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Intro & Cleaning Central Valley Trucks - 8 Feb 06
                                                                                    Folks,

                                                                                    I'm new to this list and returning to the hobby after being away
                                                                                    since 1980, after my discharge from the Air Force. As many folks I've
                                                                                    been preoccupied with college, professional and family activities in
                                                                                    recent years. In a sense I feel like a Rip Van Winkle with all the
                                                                                    changes to the hobby, particularly the use of plastics, DCC and the
                                                                                    availability of highly detailed RTR models. Nevertheless, I remain a
                                                                                    traditionalist and continue to enjoy working with brass and wood,
                                                                                    while developing skills with newer materials and technologies.

                                                                                    I bemoan the fact there seems to be less and less emphasis toward the
                                                                                    craftsman end of model railroading these days and more toward "time
                                                                                    starved" hobbyists who want instant results. To each his own…

                                                                                    Anyhow, I am in the process of beginning the construction of some
                                                                                    long stored Ambroid (B&M, Concord Car or Laconia Prototypes)
                                                                                    passenger kits I bought in the late 1970's. These kits date from the
                                                                                    mid to late 1950's (Ambroid blue and white box) with solid wood
                                                                                    clerestory roofs, that were improved with hollow ones in subsequent
                                                                                    runs and later by Northeastern Scale Models. I checked with Labelle
                                                                                    and they are willing to put together the hollow versions per their
                                                                                    current shop specs.

                                                                                    For years I preferred the use of Central Valley trucks and still
                                                                                    believe they remain among the best performing trucks in the industry.
                                                                                    Needless to say I was dismayed when I learned they ceased production
                                                                                    of this line several years ago (Does anyone know when?). The
                                                                                    resulting procurement has been a bit challenging and finding New Old
                                                                                    Stock (NOS) that much more. Nevertheless, I was able to track down
                                                                                    some NOS Central Valley (T-31) 4-Wheel Passenger Trucks to match cars
                                                                                    I built in the late 1970's.

                                                                                    Here's the problem. When I took delivery the shock of shipment
                                                                                    literally pulverized the existing 25-30 year old foam packaging
                                                                                    within the little plastic truck boxes. It appears that some foam has
                                                                                    slightly adhered to the trucks. Upon closer examination the brass
                                                                                    wheel sets also have some spots of green oxidation (patina). Aside
                                                                                    from a good hand (mechanical) cleaning with say 600 grit abrasive
                                                                                    paper, is there a safe solvent that won't attack the zinc side frames
                                                                                    or more importantly the axle insulation that isolates one side
                                                                                    electrically?

                                                                                    I'm not sure what this insulating material is, whether lacquer based
                                                                                    or some type of plastic coating. One thing is for sure, material
                                                                                    preservation is key in this cleanup. I have considered using my
                                                                                    ultrasonic cleaner, but am concerned how well the "lacquer"
                                                                                    insulation will continue to adhere to its substrate (axle).

                                                                                    Out of curiosity, I called Central Valley yesterday and inquired if
                                                                                    there was anyone who could help me with an "old stock" item and went
                                                                                    on to explain the above. To say the least, I was a bit surprised by
                                                                                    the reply on the other end of the line. The gentleman declared, "How
                                                                                    am I supposed to know?!!" in a very surly tone (I thought if Central
                                                                                    Valley doesn't am I supposed to know?). He went on to throw
                                                                                    out a couple of token guesses, but I concluded I had already had more
                                                                                    knowledge on the topic and thanked him for his time. I suspected
                                                                                    there is a history here I wasn't aware, like folks asking similar
                                                                                    questions one too many times. Another topic. Definately not the
                                                                                    Central Valley of old…so much for customer service.

                                                                                    On another note, I am also resurrecting another set of CV T-31's that
                                                                                    I recovered from 20 plus year of basement storage. They appear
                                                                                    serviceable and still roll as well as ever despite occasional
                                                                                    basement dampness.

                                                                                    Otherwise, the blackened zinc side frames seem to have some gray
                                                                                    oxidation that needs to be cleaned up and re-blackened (with perhaps
                                                                                    a chemical blackener?). I've hear zinc can disintegrate with "zinc
                                                                                    rot". Other than the slight discoloration, this item appears solid.

                                                                                    Any comments or suggestions?

                                                                                    Rob Quagan
                                                                                    West Roxbury, MA
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 894 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/8/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Photos added to Frank o toptrain album
                                                                                    Nice pictures Frank, the 999 and the Casey Jones are really nice.  Looks like you did good at the show.
                                                                                    Gramps

                                                                                    frank <toptrain1@...> wrote:
                                                                                    4 photos added. 2 are of a pair of brass and cast Mantua 0-4-0c's I am
                                                                                    rebuilding. The next a International brass NYC 4-4-0 #999. The forth is
                                                                                    a Aristo Craft model of the Cassey Jones.






                                                                                    Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!

                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 895 From: Imp Ster Date: 2/8/2006
                                                                                    Subject: ... och! ... Central Valley!! -- (caution, another long imp rant)
                                                                                    a surly & uninformed voice on the other end of the line, eh?
                                                                                    now why does that not surpise me?

                                                                                    reading previous posts here and at another certain HO Y-Group,
                                                                                    something about how "..if the mfg's couldnt make enough $$ on small
                                                                                    parts runs.." as reason why they dropped us craft-rails on our a** over
                                                                                    the years.

                                                                                    well i got another name for it - plain old greed.
                                                                                    how much does it take to pay off that condo or Caddy or Escalade or
                                                                                    Lexus or whatever the well-heeled robber baron drives (..or has driven
                                                                                    for them) these days?
                                                                                    or is it simply burnout? ..does the time come when the thought of
                                                                                    producing more toy trains (spare me) causes nothing but that sinking
                                                                                    feeling of despair?

                                                                                    back in '99, i was all agog over preserving the dies for classic
                                                                                    Athearn metal drive train components, you know, the marvelous chrome-
                                                                                    plated trucks as seen on the UP versons of the PAs, SDs and others.
                                                                                    so i wore out several hundred minutes of pre-paid long distance,
                                                                                    inquiring up and down the line at Athearn and elsewhere, trying to find
                                                                                    out (A) what happened to the dies (B) who had the patents if any (C)
                                                                                    were there any parts reliably available?

                                                                                    well you might have thought i was after something unseemly or
                                                                                    subversive or just plain ridiculous, judging from the various responses
                                                                                    i got.
                                                                                    nobody knew or cared what became of the dies, all the parts were gone,
                                                                                    and this was BEFORE the merger with Horizon.
                                                                                    i think it's safe to say that i can pirate and clone whatever i want.
                                                                                    for COMMERCIAL production!
                                                                                    (i get the distinct feeling that Irv is looking down and egging me on,
                                                                                    too!)

                                                                                    there is a curious malaise seeping down (dumbing down) from top levels
                                                                                    of the coporate corpses out there.
                                                                                    as, nobody seem to have much of an interest in new tooling for
                                                                                    metal... or even preserving what little is left.
                                                                                    fanciful (re)painting of existing (plastic) product for promotional
                                                                                    larks seem to be the extent of artistic endeavor these days.

                                                                                    well i am fed up with subsisting on cast-offs, hand-me-downs and out-
                                                                                    sourced plasticised clones of previously full-metal USA-made items.
                                                                                    i'm looking at a final-run Mantua Hudson box with a $237.oo price tag (
                                                                                    generously discounted to a "mere" $175.oo ) and wondering if they
                                                                                    deliberately sabotaged their business as some kind of a parting shot.
                                                                                    this model used to retail RTR for under $50, the kit could be had for
                                                                                    about $27. in the late 70's.
                                                                                    even accounting for the worst sort of inflation, it doesnt cost $100.
                                                                                    to pump out product from dies that paid for themselves long ago.
                                                                                    the only answer i am left with is greed.

                                                                                    today, the Hot Wheels and Matchbox names are revitalised and are
                                                                                    flooding the WalMarts with laser-printed die-cast vehicles retailing
                                                                                    at .79 less than the $1.50 we used to happily pay, while Walthers has
                                                                                    the insular greedy nerve to list their plastic Fords (in kit form, no
                                                                                    less) for well over $15., if you can get them at all.
                                                                                    o, take a flying leap, Walthers... i'm going to WalMart and fill my
                                                                                    basket with metal panel trucks, caddys, chevys, olds and more, and with
                                                                                    the $$ i save, i will paint them in period colors myself...

                                                                                    okay, so we get to Central Valley at last.
                                                                                    how the mighty have fallen.
                                                                                    but its bad form to speak ill of the dead.
                                                                                    so i will end this rant with the sop thrown to the masses and the glove
                                                                                    cast down before the greedy robber barons:

                                                                                    (A) we are not amused.
                                                                                    (B) this aint over yet.

                                                                                    grr, etc

                                                                                    ...
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 896 From: Imp Ster Date: 2/8/2006
                                                                                    Subject: oh yeah, about cleaning CV...
                                                                                    ACKK!! - please dont use sandpaper!
                                                                                    a stiff toothbrush will remove the foam residue, then you can polish
                                                                                    away verdigris (the green spots) with strips cut from ScotchBrite or
                                                                                    similar scrubby material.
                                                                                    also, please study my rant on oiling zinc, you will find that CV items
                                                                                    restore nicely when so treated.

                                                                                    somebody please correct me if i'm wrong, but i am fairly certain that
                                                                                    these wheel-sets were assembled using molten glass as the insulating
                                                                                    material.

                                                                                    ...
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 897 From: whistlestop2000 Date: 2/8/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Re: for Simon: da imp rants on oil for brass ( & zinc) protection
                                                                                    Wow, what a great answer!! Thanks so much for taking the time to
                                                                                    write all that terrific advice. I would never have been brave
                                                                                    enough to try those techniques without prior recommendation!!!

                                                                                    Thanks, eh!! Simon

                                                                                    - In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Imp Ster" <iimpster@...> wrote:
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > greets Simon -
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > i have found that common 20-40 wt motor oil, $0.98 the generic
                                                                                    quart at
                                                                                    > WalMart, is an excellent basic lube-sealant for vintage (& new)
                                                                                    metal
                                                                                    > items such as rail and castings.
                                                                                    > the hobby shops will also have several grades of oil which is safe
                                                                                    for
                                                                                    > plastic items.
                                                                                    > aged zinc in particular really needs something to stop oxidation
                                                                                    and
                                                                                    > inevitable expansion.
                                                                                    > ( i cringe when i see vintage zinc models striped of paint for
                                                                                    display
                                                                                    > and left un-treated - you can see the powdery oxates
                                                                                    > accumulating! .."expansion doom" is drawing nigh !! )
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > anyway, for brass rail, i like to apply it rather generously with
                                                                                    a
                                                                                    > small brush, making sure the rail sides are coated more than the
                                                                                    head.
                                                                                    > (note: the vintage Atlas plastic ties seem to benefit from such
                                                                                    oil,
                                                                                    > but certain cheap styrenes such as Life-Likes, will soften when
                                                                                    exposed
                                                                                    > to petroleum products, so use caution when applying any petro
                                                                                    product
                                                                                    > to any plastic... test on scrap first)
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > do not run any trains on the freshly-oiled rail.
                                                                                    > allow the oil to seep for a day or so then wipe off the excess
                                                                                    with a
                                                                                    > clean shop rag or equiv.
                                                                                    > once the oil "settles", you will not really notice much
                                                                                    slipperiness or
                                                                                    > residue.
                                                                                    > however you may immediately notice that the brass takes on an
                                                                                    > interesting "freshly minted" effect, excepting areas with severe
                                                                                    > corrosion.
                                                                                    > this Mop-n-Glo effect lasts for several years in protected
                                                                                    environments!
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > another note: to effectively strip excess oil or crusty grime from
                                                                                    > mainline rails, dab a bit of common kerosene or lamp oil on
                                                                                    several
                                                                                    > points along the track ahead of a looping train.
                                                                                    > the wheels will pick up the kero and carry it over the system,
                                                                                    engine
                                                                                    > slipping a lot at first, but the final effect will be mirror-
                                                                                    polished
                                                                                    > railheads (run the trains until the kero slime is quite gone...
                                                                                    about
                                                                                    > 20 minutes on a typical 4x8 loop, extrapolate for larger layouts)
                                                                                    > kero or lamp oil will not as a rule affect styrene ties, but do
                                                                                    not in
                                                                                    > any case use other strong solvents or petro distilates such as
                                                                                    Xylol,
                                                                                    > Xylene or acetone etc... your sleepers will dissolve into a sticky
                                                                                    mess
                                                                                    > of liquid plastic goo.
                                                                                    > denatured alcohol is another effective cleaning agent with no
                                                                                    residue.
                                                                                    > at first the rail will be sloppy with kero and grime sludge, but
                                                                                    as
                                                                                    > repeated traffic displaces the sludge and it begins to dry off,
                                                                                    the
                                                                                    > rail itself will become quite clear of even well-caked grime.
                                                                                    > car lighting that once flickered maddeningly will become quite
                                                                                    constant
                                                                                    > and engines will find similar electrical contact improvement.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > zinc items can be effectively "immortalised" by saturating with
                                                                                    medium-
                                                                                    > heavy oil during assembly.
                                                                                    > this of course makes most forms of painting impossible, so an
                                                                                    > alternative method is to assemble and paint zinc items with a
                                                                                    permanent
                                                                                    > laquer finish, then lightly oil the entire item occasionaly once
                                                                                    the
                                                                                    > paint has well set.
                                                                                    > the old masters used to bake their (metal) painted items but this
                                                                                    can
                                                                                    > be a touchy proceedure..
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > well enough of a rant, i'd say.
                                                                                    > sometimes i feel like the Tin Man is the only one who really
                                                                                    > understands!
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > cheers
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > ...
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > > however, i have found that a basic application of heavy oil will
                                                                                    > > saturate and seal the brass (which is actualy a fairly porous
                                                                                    > metal).
                                                                                    > > but, there really is no substitute for regular traffic on the
                                                                                    > rails.
                                                                                    > > and the more metal wheels in that traffic, the better.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > >
                                                                                    > > Since I'm not one to re-invent the wheel, can you let me know
                                                                                    what
                                                                                    > sort of oil you have found works best for keeping the brass rail
                                                                                    > nice and shiny?
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > Thanks, Simon
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > ...
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 898 From: Phil Date: 2/9/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Foam Removal on Brass
                                                                                    Hello,

                                                                                    Does anyone know a good method of removing foam from a brass engine
                                                                                    without harming the factory paint. I have an old Hiawatha set where
                                                                                    the unstable foam melted all over the engine and coaches....I also
                                                                                    have some unpainted brass where this happened, if there's a faster
                                                                                    method of removal for unpainted brass, I could use help there
                                                                                    too......Thanks....

                                                                                    Phil
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 899 From: Imp Ster Date: 2/9/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Detailing the Mantua Shifter - MR, 1951
                                                                                    greets all -

                                                                                    the Yahoo Groups File upload is being (typicaly) unreliable today, so
                                                                                    i've Geo-hosted these 200 DPI scans (in .JPG format) of a 1951 Model
                                                                                    Railroader article about the super-detailing of the Mantua 0-4-0
                                                                                    Shifter.
                                                                                    they should display about 2X of the original page, which is great for
                                                                                    study.
                                                                                    here's the URLs,

                                                                                    http://www.geocities.com/iimpster/Mantua_Shifter_0-4-0_pg1.jpg

                                                                                    http://www.geocities.com/iimpster/Mantua_Shifter_0-4-0_pg2.jpg

                                                                                    http://www.geocities.com/iimpster/Mantua_Shifter_0-4-0_pg3.jpg

                                                                                    http://www.geocities.com/iimpster/Mantua_Shifter_0-4-0_pg4.jpg

                                                                                    if interested, please save the images on local file, as my Geo host
                                                                                    is rather overloaded and i will probably delete these soon to
                                                                                    conserve space.
                                                                                    (or, if i can load these to Vintage HO Files from the broadband CPU
                                                                                    at work, in which case i will so notify the Group via File Upload
                                                                                    notices.)

                                                                                    cheers

                                                                                    ...
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 900 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/9/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Detailing the Mantua Shifter - MR, 1951
                                                                                    This was very nice of you. It will be helpful to me, It looks so good I might even pick up one of these locos to work on.
                                                                                    Gramps

                                                                                    Imp Ster <iimpster@...> wrote:
                                                                                    greets all -

                                                                                    the Yahoo Groups File upload is being (typicaly) unreliable today, so
                                                                                    i've Geo-hosted these 200 DPI scans (in .JPG format) of a 1951 Model
                                                                                    Railroader article about the super-detailing of the Mantua 0-4-0
                                                                                    Shifter.
                                                                                    they should display about 2X of the original page, which is great for
                                                                                    study.
                                                                                    here's the URLs,

                                                                                    http://www.geocities.com/iimpster/Mantua_Shifter_0-4-0_pg1.jpg

                                                                                    http://www.geocities.com/iimpster/Mantua_Shifter_0-4-0_pg2.jpg

                                                                                    http://www.geocities.com/iimpster/Mantua_Shifter_0-4-0_pg3.jpg

                                                                                    http://www.geocities.com/iimpster/Mantua_Shifter_0-4-0_pg4.jpg

                                                                                    if interested, please save the images on local file, as my Geo host
                                                                                    is rather overloaded and i will probably delete these soon to
                                                                                    conserve space.
                                                                                    (or, if i can load these to Vintage HO Files from the broadband CPU
                                                                                    at work, in which case i will so notify the Group via File Upload
                                                                                    notices.)

                                                                                    cheers

                                                                                    ...







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                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 901 From: Imp Ster Date: 2/9/2006
                                                                                    Subject: the Mantua Shifter - MR, 1951
                                                                                    always glad to add to the pile, Gramps - &, as i suspected, the CPU
                                                                                    here at work loaded the JPGs to our Group's file host with no trouble.
                                                                                    so you can now also find them in the Vintage HO "Files" section for
                                                                                    posterity.

                                                                                    btw, i will leave the URLs active for another few days, in case
                                                                                    anyone else needs them.

                                                                                    how about the valve gear on that model!
                                                                                    and that cartoon of the brass hat refusing to touch his derailed
                                                                                    car... heheheh.
                                                                                    i can SO relate!

                                                                                    (and the prices! - dont get me started.)

                                                                                    ...

                                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Chuck Svihlik <c_t_j_dad@...> wrote:
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > This was very nice of you. It will be helpful to me, It looks so
                                                                                    good I might even pick up one of these locos to work on.
                                                                                    > Gramps
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > Imp Ster <iimpster@...> wrote:
                                                                                    > greets all -
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 902 From: Douglas Krahn Date: 2/9/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Re: ... och! ... Central Valley!! -- (caution, another long imp ra
                                                                                    Walmart now has some VERY Nice HO scale cars for
                                                                                    $1.69. Only old car are models of 1955 Chevy BelAir
                                                                                    and a VW Bus (1960/1970), rest are all modern, but
                                                                                    very well done.

                                                                                    Doug


                                                                                    --- Imp Ster <iimpster@...> wrote:

                                                                                    > a surly & uninformed voice on the other end of the
                                                                                    > line, eh?
                                                                                    > now why does that not surpise me?
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > reading previous posts here and at another certain
                                                                                    > HO Y-Group,
                                                                                    > something about how "..if the mfg's couldnt make
                                                                                    > enough $$ on small
                                                                                    > parts runs.." as reason why they dropped us
                                                                                    > craft-rails on our a** over
                                                                                    > the years.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > well i got another name for it - plain old greed.
                                                                                    > how much does it take to pay off that condo or Caddy
                                                                                    > or Escalade or
                                                                                    > Lexus or whatever the well-heeled robber baron
                                                                                    > drives (..or has driven
                                                                                    > for them) these days?
                                                                                    > or is it simply burnout? ..does the time come when
                                                                                    > the thought of
                                                                                    > producing more toy trains (spare me) causes nothing
                                                                                    > but that sinking
                                                                                    > feeling of despair?
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > back in '99, i was all agog over preserving the dies
                                                                                    > for classic
                                                                                    > Athearn metal drive train components, you know, the
                                                                                    > marvelous chrome-
                                                                                    > plated trucks as seen on the UP versons of the PAs,
                                                                                    > SDs and others.
                                                                                    > so i wore out several hundred minutes of pre-paid
                                                                                    > long distance,
                                                                                    > inquiring up and down the line at Athearn and
                                                                                    > elsewhere, trying to find
                                                                                    > out (A) what happened to the dies (B) who had the
                                                                                    > patents if any (C)
                                                                                    > were there any parts reliably available?
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > well you might have thought i was after something
                                                                                    > unseemly or
                                                                                    > subversive or just plain ridiculous, judging from
                                                                                    > the various responses
                                                                                    > i got.
                                                                                    > nobody knew or cared what became of the dies, all
                                                                                    > the parts were gone,
                                                                                    > and this was BEFORE the merger with Horizon.
                                                                                    > i think it's safe to say that i can pirate and clone
                                                                                    > whatever i want.
                                                                                    > for COMMERCIAL production!
                                                                                    > (i get the distinct feeling that Irv is looking down
                                                                                    > and egging me on,
                                                                                    > too!)
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > there is a curious malaise seeping down (dumbing
                                                                                    > down) from top levels
                                                                                    > of the coporate corpses out there.
                                                                                    > as, nobody seem to have much of an interest in new
                                                                                    > tooling for
                                                                                    > metal... or even preserving what little is left.
                                                                                    > fanciful (re)painting of existing (plastic) product
                                                                                    > for promotional
                                                                                    > larks seem to be the extent of artistic endeavor
                                                                                    > these days.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > well i am fed up with subsisting on cast-offs,
                                                                                    > hand-me-downs and out-
                                                                                    > sourced plasticised clones of previously full-metal
                                                                                    > USA-made items.
                                                                                    > i'm looking at a final-run Mantua Hudson box with a
                                                                                    > $237.oo price tag (
                                                                                    > generously discounted to a "mere" $175.oo ) and
                                                                                    > wondering if they
                                                                                    > deliberately sabotaged their business as some kind
                                                                                    > of a parting shot.
                                                                                    > this model used to retail RTR for under $50, the kit
                                                                                    > could be had for
                                                                                    > about $27. in the late 70's.
                                                                                    > even accounting for the worst sort of inflation, it
                                                                                    > doesnt cost $100.
                                                                                    > to pump out product from dies that paid for
                                                                                    > themselves long ago.
                                                                                    > the only answer i am left with is greed.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > today, the Hot Wheels and Matchbox names are
                                                                                    > revitalised and are
                                                                                    > flooding the WalMarts with laser-printed die-cast
                                                                                    > vehicles retailing
                                                                                    > at .79 less than the $1.50 we used to happily pay,
                                                                                    > while Walthers has
                                                                                    > the insular greedy nerve to list their plastic Fords
                                                                                    > (in kit form, no
                                                                                    > less) for well over $15., if you can get them at
                                                                                    > all.
                                                                                    > o, take a flying leap, Walthers... i'm going to
                                                                                    > WalMart and fill my
                                                                                    > basket with metal panel trucks, caddys, chevys, olds
                                                                                    > and more, and with
                                                                                    > the $$ i save, i will paint them in period colors
                                                                                    > myself...
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > okay, so we get to Central Valley at last.
                                                                                    > how the mighty have fallen.
                                                                                    > but its bad form to speak ill of the dead.
                                                                                    > so i will end this rant with the sop thrown to the
                                                                                    > masses and the glove
                                                                                    > cast down before the greedy robber barons:
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > (A) we are not amused.
                                                                                    > (B) this aint over yet.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > grr, etc
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > ...
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 903 From: Don Riley Date: 2/9/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Re: ... och! ... Central Valley!! -- (caution, another long imp ra
                                                                                    Wow!! Too bad Athearn no longer cared. Guess because it had been so very long! All those who were involved with the metal were long gone. And the metal had been sold and resold over and over.
                                                                                    Youl could still get band drive parts from Athearn we have gotten some of it.
                                                                                    Good luck in making more!!
                                                                                     
                                                                                    Steamengine 4449

                                                                                    Imp Ster <iimpster@...> wrote:
                                                                                    a surly & uninformed voice on the other end of the line, eh?
                                                                                    now why does that not surpise me?

                                                                                    reading previous posts here and at another certain HO Y-Group,
                                                                                    something about how "..if the mfg's couldnt make enough $$ on small
                                                                                    parts runs.." as reason why they dropped us craft-rails on our a** over
                                                                                    the years.

                                                                                    well i got another name for it - plain old greed.
                                                                                    how much does it take to pay off that condo or Caddy or Escalade or
                                                                                    Lexus or whatever the well-heeled robber baron drives (..or has driven
                                                                                    for them) these days?
                                                                                    or is it simply burnout? ..does the time come when the thought of
                                                                                    producing more toy trains (spare me) causes nothing but that sinking
                                                                                    feeling of despair?

                                                                                    back in '99, i was all agog over preserving the dies for classic
                                                                                    Athearn metal drive train components, you know, the marvelous chrome-
                                                                                    plated trucks as seen on the UP versons of the PAs, SDs and others.
                                                                                    so i wore out several hundred minutes of pre-paid long distance,
                                                                                    inquiring up and down the line at Athearn and elsewhere, trying to find
                                                                                    out (A) what happened to the dies (B) who had the patents if any (C)
                                                                                    were there any parts reliably available?

                                                                                    well you might have thought i was after something unseemly or
                                                                                    subversive or just plain ridiculous, judging from the various responses
                                                                                    i got.
                                                                                    nobody knew or cared what became of the dies, all the parts were gone,
                                                                                    and this was BEFORE the merger with Horizon.
                                                                                    i think it's safe to say that i can pirate and clone whatever i want.
                                                                                    for COMMERCIAL production!
                                                                                    (i get the distinct feeling that Irv is looking down and egging me on,
                                                                                    too!)

                                                                                    there is a curious malaise seeping down (dumbing down) from top levels
                                                                                    of the coporate corpses out there.
                                                                                    as, nobody seem to have much of an interest in new tooling for
                                                                                    metal...  or even preserving what little is left.
                                                                                    fanciful (re)painting of existing (plastic) product for promotional
                                                                                    larks seem to be the extent of artistic endeavor these days.

                                                                                    well i am fed up with subsisting on cast-offs, hand-me-downs and out-
                                                                                    sourced plasticised clones of previously full-metal USA-made items.
                                                                                    i'm looking at a final-run Mantua Hudson box with a $237.oo price tag (
                                                                                    generously discounted to a "mere" $175.oo ) and wondering if they
                                                                                    deliberately sabotaged their business as some kind of a parting shot.
                                                                                    this model used to retail RTR for under $50, the kit could be had for
                                                                                    about $27. in the late 70's.
                                                                                    even accounting for the worst sort of inflation, it doesnt cost $100.
                                                                                    to pump out product from dies that paid for themselves long ago.
                                                                                    the only answer i am left with is greed.

                                                                                    today, the Hot Wheels and Matchbox names are revitalised and are
                                                                                    flooding the WalMarts with laser-printed die-cast vehicles retailing
                                                                                    at .79 less than the $1.50 we used to happily pay, while Walthers has
                                                                                    the insular greedy nerve to list their plastic Fords (in kit form, no
                                                                                    less) for well over $15., if you can get them at all.
                                                                                    o, take a flying leap, Walthers... i'm going to WalMart and fill my
                                                                                    basket with metal panel trucks, caddys, chevys, olds and more, and with
                                                                                    the $$ i save, i will paint them in period colors myself...

                                                                                    okay, so we get to Central Valley at last.
                                                                                    how the mighty have fallen.
                                                                                    but its bad form to speak ill of the dead.
                                                                                    so i will end this rant with the sop thrown to the masses and the glove
                                                                                    cast down before the greedy robber barons:

                                                                                    (A) we are not amused.
                                                                                    (B) this aint over yet.

                                                                                    grr, etc


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                                                                                    Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.

                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 904 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/9/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Re: the Mantua Shifter - MR, 1951
                                                                                    I can relate to everything, the prices are really interesting, I'm 65 and have been in the hobby since my Dad got me a American Flyer 4-6-4 as soon as my Mom told him she was expecting.so I guess I've been in the hobby 65yrs plus.I've still got that loco along with several other A.F.locos and cars.I got involved with HO scale thanks to the pictures and articles by John Allen and that was in the 50's. I love model trains in all sizes. I won't start on prices either except to say that I hope the trains of today last a long long time.
                                                                                    Gramps

                                                                                    Imp Ster <iimpster@...> wrote:
                                                                                    always glad to add to the pile, Gramps - &, as i suspected, the CPU
                                                                                    here at work loaded the JPGs to our Group's file host with no trouble.
                                                                                    so you can now also find them in the Vintage HO "Files" section for
                                                                                    posterity.

                                                                                    btw, i will leave the URLs active for another few days, in case
                                                                                    anyone else needs them.

                                                                                    how about the valve gear on that model!
                                                                                    and that cartoon of the brass hat refusing to touch his derailed
                                                                                    car... heheheh.
                                                                                    i can SO relate!

                                                                                    (and the prices! - dont get me started.)

                                                                                    ...

                                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Chuck Svihlik <c_t_j_dad@...> wrote:
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > This was very nice of you. It will be helpful to me, It looks so
                                                                                    good I might even pick up one of these locos to work on.
                                                                                    >   Gramps
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > Imp Ster <iimpster@...> wrote:
                                                                                    >   greets all -
                                                                                    >






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                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 905 From: don.dellmann Date: 2/9/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Re: oh yeah, about cleaning CV...
                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                    From: Imp Ster <iimpster@...>
                                                                                    To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                    Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 9:36 PM
                                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] oh yeah, about cleaning CV...


                                                                                    > ACKK!! - please dont use sandpaper!
                                                                                    > a stiff toothbrush will remove the foam residue, then you can polish
                                                                                    > away verdigris (the green spots) with strips cut from ScotchBrite or
                                                                                    > similar scrubby material.
                                                                                    > also, please study my rant on oiling zinc, you will find that CV items
                                                                                    > restore nicely when so treated.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > somebody please correct me if i'm wrong, but i am fairly certain that
                                                                                    > these wheel-sets were assembled using molten glass as the insulating
                                                                                    > material.

                                                                                    The CV's made in the 80's after George sold the company had plastic inserts
                                                                                    for insulating, and were garbage.
                                                                                    (Do NOT waste your money if the part number has three digits, i.e. "J221"
                                                                                    instead of "T21").

                                                                                    The originals used a laquer or similar insulating paint, but do NOT use
                                                                                    lubricating oil on them unless it's a {plastic compatable" lube. back ca.
                                                                                    1972 or so a friend "oiled" about 150 pairs of CV's, and wound up shorting
                                                                                    out every single wheelset! (If you doubt my story, ask Bill Wischer at
                                                                                    Walthers if he remembers when "jerry" oiled his CV's, he was in the club at
                                                                                    the same time).

                                                                                    If you can find any old Kemtron "WA-10" or Precision scale "2010" wheelsets,
                                                                                    these appear to be the same as the Central Valley "OEM" wheels.

                                                                                    As far as "zinc rot", I have NEVER seen it in a CV sideframe. Athearn yes,
                                                                                    Varney NOTORIOUS, but CV, never.

                                                                                    Don

                                                                                    don.dellmann@...
                                                                                    http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                    moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                    moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                    moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                    co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 906 From: Rick Jones Date: 2/9/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Intro & Cleaning Central Valley Trucks - 8 Feb 06
                                                                                    Rob Quagan wrote:
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > I bemoan the fact there seems to be less and less emphasis toward the
                                                                                    > craftsman end of model railroading these days and more toward "time
                                                                                    > starved" hobbyists who want instant results. To each his own…

                                                                                    I was similarly shocked around 13 years ago when I started to active
                                                                                    in the hobby again after a long hiatus. As a result I went on a buying
                                                                                    binge at every model train swap meet where I found old craftsman kits
                                                                                    that weren't carried in stores any more. As a result I now have around 3
                                                                                    dozen Central Valley kits, some 60 or more Menzies (former Athearn
                                                                                    metal) kits, and many dozens more from Ambroid, Silver Streak, Ulrich
                                                                                    and many other less well known craft kits.

                                                                                    > Out of curiosity, I called Central Valley yesterday and inquired if
                                                                                    > there was anyone who could help me with an "old stock" item and went
                                                                                    > on to explain the above. To say the least, I was a bit surprised by
                                                                                    > the reply on the other end of the line. The gentleman declared, "How
                                                                                    > am I supposed to know?!!" in a very surly tone (I thought if Central
                                                                                    > Valley doesn't am I supposed to know?). He went on to throw
                                                                                    > out a couple of token guesses, but I concluded I had already had more
                                                                                    > knowledge on the topic and thanked him for his time. I suspected
                                                                                    > there is a history here I wasn't aware, like folks asking similar
                                                                                    > questions one too many times. Another topic. Definately not the
                                                                                    > Central Valley of old…so much for customer service.

                                                                                    The current owner is not the original owner. I don't know when CV
                                                                                    was sold but it happened many years ago. On a wild whim I went to his
                                                                                    shop in Oceano, CA several years ago to ask if he would sell the molds
                                                                                    for the line of truck CV used to make. I thought perhaps I could
                                                                                    contract out the casting to a company that does that sort of thing, then
                                                                                    assemble and sell the trucks myself. He wouldn't sell them of course. If
                                                                                    he decided to he said that Kadee had first call on buying them.
                                                                                    I have wondered if someone could just take one of the existing truck
                                                                                    and have a machinist make new molds to cast from, and thereby get some
                                                                                    of those great old trucks back on the market. I'd really like some of
                                                                                    the Fox trucks along with some of the passenger trucks. The patents must
                                                                                    be expired by now, like Kadee's.

                                                                                    --

                                                                                    Rick Jones

                                                                                    The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad
                                                                                    http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/

                                                                                    "Show me a man with both feet firmly on the ground, and I'll show you a
                                                                                    man who can't get his pants off."
                                                                                    -Stephen Wright
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 907 From: Jack Priller Date: 2/9/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Re: oh yeah, about cleaning CV...
                                                                                    "Zinc rot" and just about every promlem related to the
                                                                                    disintigration of die-cast items can be traced to the manufacturers'
                                                                                    concern about his 'bottom line'. The 'rot' is caused by impurities in
                                                                                    the metal when they poured it. CV, and a few others, never, ever, took
                                                                                    the rejects after a pour and reused them in a new batch as they had
                                                                                    been in contact with other materials. It cost more per piece to use
                                                                                    only new material, but some folks (more then than now!) did put
                                                                                    quality ahead of profit. Some others (Don mentioned Varney) would
                                                                                    actually scrape spillage off the floor and re-use it.

                                                                                    Ye Olde Trolleynut

                                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
                                                                                    wrote:
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > As far as "zinc rot", I have NEVER seen it in a CV sideframe.
                                                                                    Athearn yes,
                                                                                    > Varney NOTORIOUS, but CV, never.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > Don
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 908 From: Imp Ster Date: 2/9/2006
                                                                                    Subject: snake oil and shameless pirating
                                                                                    uh oh, i sure hope i havent set the stage for a big mess, due to my
                                                                                    oiling obsession.
                                                                                    thanks for the input Don, i didnt realise that post-CV clones had a
                                                                                    plastic (nylon?) axle insulator.
                                                                                    (got my head stuck firmly in the 50's i guess. heh)

                                                                                    as an aside, i havent noticed any deletorious effect after applying
                                                                                    machine oil on the 'glass' (resin?) insulated wheelsets.
                                                                                    nice thing about group-think, it keeps one crank (like me) from
                                                                                    ruining everyones day with poor advice!

                                                                                    Rick, you have just called my hand.
                                                                                    for i be just the shameless pirate to resurrect every decent design
                                                                                    and then some.
                                                                                    let the patent-infringement lawsuits be on my head!

                                                                                    and a previous post here got me thinking about "legacy".
                                                                                    see, what is it about "vintage" HO that we admire, that drives us to
                                                                                    collect and hoard and cherish?
                                                                                    its not that they are no longer in production, a' la' discontinued
                                                                                    Beany Babies.
                                                                                    (gag.)
                                                                                    it is that these items were made to the highest ideals of the art, no
                                                                                    expense was spared, no effort begrudged, to bring the rail-modeling
                                                                                    consumer the best "model" of any item, whether it was fully equalised
                                                                                    trucks, geared drives, knuckled couplers, or what have you.
                                                                                    reading these histories of the various early model RR companies, the
                                                                                    troubles they went thru trying to bring out a decent product, it
                                                                                    really makes one ponder what art is.

                                                                                    "legacy" is the product designed for the ages.
                                                                                    not some semi-disposable TOY garbage that will sag and fall apart if
                                                                                    left in the sun too long.

                                                                                    someday my ship will come in and i will be able to act on my wild
                                                                                    wishes.
                                                                                    i'm sure they laughed at Irv when he planned something beyond rubber
                                                                                    bands.
                                                                                    and the fine folks at the old Cary Loco Works probably came in for
                                                                                    their share of ridicule and scepticism when they floated the idea of
                                                                                    full-metal bodies.

                                                                                    this dog wil have his day...

                                                                                    ...
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 909 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/10/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Mantua clear loco
                                                                                    I was just looking at eBay and saw a Mantua clear F7 loco listed. The
                                                                                    item # is 6035613523 and I am wondering what the reason was for making
                                                                                    a clear bodied loco. Was this for display to show the two motors or
                                                                                    what.
                                                                                    Gramps
                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 910 From: Don Riley Date: 2/10/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Mantua clear loco
                                                                                    Yes I think it was for the stores to be able to show what the motors look like.
                                                                                    Globe or Athearn did the same thing.
                                                                                    Infact anyone here have one? I found someone once with one. Have been looking for one on ebay but not scored yet.
                                                                                     
                                                                                    Steamengine 4449

                                                                                    Chuck Svihlik <c_t_j_dad@...> wrote:
                                                                                    I was just looking at eBay and saw a Mantua clear F7 loco listed. The
                                                                                    item # is 6035613523 and I am wondering what the reason was for making
                                                                                    a clear bodied loco. Was this for display to show the two motors or
                                                                                    what.
                                                                                    Gramps


                                                                                    Yahoo! Mail
                                                                                    Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.

                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 911 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/10/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Mantua clear loco
                                                                                    Don, check the eBay number I put in my post, that's the number for the Mantua clear F7. It has no bids on it and shows a picture of the loco and box. Hope this helps.
                                                                                    Gramps

                                                                                    Don Riley <steamengine4449us@...> wrote:
                                                                                    Yes I think it was for the stores to be able to show what the motors look like.
                                                                                    Globe or Athearn did the same thing.
                                                                                    Infact anyone here have one? I found someone once with one. Have been looking for one on ebay but not scored yet.
                                                                                     
                                                                                    Steamengine 4449

                                                                                    Chuck Svihlik <c_t_j_dad@...> wrote:
                                                                                    I was just looking at eBay and saw a Mantua clear F7 loco listed. The
                                                                                    item # is 6035613523 and I am wondering what the reason was for making
                                                                                    a clear bodied loco. Was this for display to show the two motors or
                                                                                    what.
                                                                                    Gramps

                                                                                    Yahoo! Mail
                                                                                    Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.


                                                                                    Brings words and photos together (easily) with
                                                                                    PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.

                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 912 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 2/10/2006
                                                                                    Subject: Fwd: Model Train Show in Seattle This Weekend!!!! 50,000 square fee
                                                                                    Attachments :


                                                                                      Note: forwarded message attached.


                                                                                      Brings words and photos together (easily) with
                                                                                      PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 913 From: Rob Quagan Date: 2/10/2006
                                                                                      Subject: More on Central Valley Trucks (was Cleaning CV)- 10 Feb 06
                                                                                      Thanks, guys.

                                                                                      This info is very helpful and helps paint a more complete picture,
                                                                                      both with what's going on with the current owners of CV and where
                                                                                      their coming from.

                                                                                      As Rick Jones has mentioned, I would be surprised if the patents for
                                                                                      the entire line of CV trucks hasn't already expired, since Kadee's
                                                                                      (roughly a contemporary old line company) coupler patents expired a
                                                                                      few years ago. I don't see the advantage of sitting on and storing
                                                                                      dies for a Kadee first refusal, if they continue to show little
                                                                                      interest.

                                                                                      I suspect it would be very easy to "reverse engineer" the line at a
                                                                                      fairly reasonable cost. Unfortunately, I'll get shot for saying
                                                                                      this...have the die work done in China if no American has the
                                                                                      whereforeall to do the patent research to determine if the line is
                                                                                      indeed "up for grabs".

                                                                                      If the patents have indeed passed into the public realm, I think we
                                                                                      shouldn't be resigned waiting another 25 years, while someone for
                                                                                      whatever reason, denies a historic and important line from a starved
                                                                                      market. With the plethora of high quality, low cost die cast models
                                                                                      that have flooded the automotive miniature market in recent years,
                                                                                      I'm frankly surprised that no one (that I'm aware) has considered
                                                                                      exploiting the talented manufacturers that produce these
                                                                                      models. "Reverse engineering" is just one of those many talents.
                                                                                      Perhaps the Chinese could produce new dies based on extant CV
                                                                                      examples, if not an outright finished product. Final assembly could
                                                                                      potentially happen in the U.S.

                                                                                      What it boils down to is a business plan that assesses the market,
                                                                                      connects the dots and determined how much of the product is produced
                                                                                      locally. Frankly, I prefer buying American, if given the chance;
                                                                                      unfortunately, have you ever tried to buy American lately?

                                                                                      Regards,

                                                                                      Rob Quagan
                                                                                      West Roxbury

                                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Rick Jones <rtjones@...> wrote:
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Rob Quagan wrote:
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > I bemoan the fact there seems to be less and less emphasis toward
                                                                                      the
                                                                                      > > craftsman end of model railroading these days and more
                                                                                      toward "time
                                                                                      > > starved" hobbyists who want instant results. To each his own…
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > I was similarly shocked around 13 years ago when I started to
                                                                                      active
                                                                                      > in the hobby again after a long hiatus. As a result I went on a
                                                                                      buying
                                                                                      > binge at every model train swap meet where I found old craftsman
                                                                                      kits
                                                                                      > that weren't carried in stores any more. As a result I now have
                                                                                      around 3
                                                                                      > dozen Central Valley kits, some 60 or more Menzies (former Athearn
                                                                                      > metal) kits, and many dozens more from Ambroid, Silver Streak,
                                                                                      Ulrich
                                                                                      > and many other less well known craft kits.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > > Out of curiosity, I called Central Valley yesterday and inquired
                                                                                      if
                                                                                      > > there was anyone who could help me with an "old stock" item and
                                                                                      went
                                                                                      > > on to explain the above. To say the least, I was a bit surprised
                                                                                      by
                                                                                      > > the reply on the other end of the line. The gentleman
                                                                                      declared, "How
                                                                                      > > am I supposed to know?!!" in a very surly tone (I thought if
                                                                                      Central
                                                                                      > > Valley doesn't am I supposed to know?). He went on to throw
                                                                                      > > out a couple of token guesses, but I concluded I had already had
                                                                                      more
                                                                                      > > knowledge on the topic and thanked him for his time. I suspected
                                                                                      > > there is a history here I wasn't aware, like folks asking similar
                                                                                      > > questions one too many times. Another topic. Definately not the
                                                                                      > > Central Valley of old…so much for customer service.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > The current owner is not the original owner. I don't know when
                                                                                      CV
                                                                                      > was sold but it happened many years ago. On a wild whim I went to
                                                                                      his
                                                                                      > shop in Oceano, CA several years ago to ask if he would sell the
                                                                                      molds
                                                                                      > for the line of truck CV used to make. I thought perhaps I could
                                                                                      > contract out the casting to a company that does that sort of thing,
                                                                                      then
                                                                                      > assemble and sell the trucks myself. He wouldn't sell them of
                                                                                      course. If
                                                                                      > he decided to he said that Kadee had first call on buying them.
                                                                                      > I have wondered if someone could just take one of the existing
                                                                                      truck
                                                                                      > and have a machinist make new molds to cast from, and thereby get
                                                                                      some
                                                                                      > of those great old trucks back on the market. I'd really like some
                                                                                      of
                                                                                      > the Fox trucks along with some of the passenger trucks. The patents
                                                                                      must
                                                                                      > be expired by now, like Kadee's.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > --
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Rick Jones
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad
                                                                                      > http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > "Show me a man with both feet firmly on the ground, and I'll show
                                                                                      you a
                                                                                      > man who can't get his pants off."
                                                                                      > -Stephen Wright
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 914 From: don.dellmann Date: 2/10/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Fwd: Model Train Show in Seattle This Weekend!!!! 50,000 square
                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      From: Raymond Lorts Sr <RaymondLorts@...>
                                                                                      To: <vintageho@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                      Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 5:04 PM
                                                                                      Subject: [vintageHO] Fwd: Model Train Show in Seattle This Weekend!!!!
                                                                                      50,000 square feet of Trains!


                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Note: forwarded message attached.

                                                                                      I let this through, I don't have a problem with announcing events if they're
                                                                                      of interest to the group, but please do NOT in the future do it as an
                                                                                      attachment.

                                                                                      The ONLY attachments to messages should be .jpg photographs.

                                                                                      Thanks

                                                                                      Don

                                                                                      don.dellmann@...
                                                                                      http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                      moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 915 From: don.dellmann Date: 2/10/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Mantua clear loco
                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      From: Don Riley <steamengine4449us@...>
                                                                                      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                      Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 1:51 PM
                                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mantua clear loco


                                                                                      > Yes I think it was for the stores to be able to show what the motors look
                                                                                      like.
                                                                                      > Globe or Athearn did the same thing.
                                                                                      > Infact anyone here have one? I found someone once with one. Have been
                                                                                      looking for one on ebay but not scored yet.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Steamengine 4449
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Chuck Svihlik <c_t_j_dad@...> wrote:
                                                                                      > I was just looking at eBay and saw a Mantua clear F7 loco listed. The
                                                                                      > item # is 6035613523 and I am wondering what the reason was for making
                                                                                      > a clear bodied loco. Was this for display to show the two motors or
                                                                                      > what.
                                                                                      > Gramps

                                                                                      I don't have one but I've seen Globe units, I believe they actually sold
                                                                                      them that way for a time.

                                                                                      Last year at Trainfest (C) the Lionel Club was running a pair of the Classic
                                                                                      Lionel F-3's with clear bodies.

                                                                                      Don

                                                                                      don.dellmann@...
                                                                                      http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                      moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 916 From: Rob K. Nielsen Date: 2/11/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: HO scale vehicles at Wally World!
                                                                                      Greetings,
                                                                                      They should have a '69 Camaro, a VW Kafer Bug, a Mercedes 300SL Wing
                                                                                      door, Porche 356B 1959, '60's AC Cobra, VW Karman Ghia Coupe. They are
                                                                                      the same as Model Powers cars but inexpensive. I've puchased 34 so far
                                                                                      but have not worried too much about eras, just something to quickly
                                                                                      populate the railroad with vehicles (once I get one built).
                                                                                      Rob, KC7WVN
                                                                                      Cobalt Creek and Western
                                                                                      RK Industries

                                                                                      On Thu, 9 Feb 2006 06:41:34 -0800 (PST) Douglas Krahn
                                                                                      <dougkrahn@...> writes:
                                                                                      > Walmart now has some VERY Nice HO scale cars for
                                                                                      > $1.69. Only old car are models of 1955 Chevy BelAir
                                                                                      > and a VW Bus (1960/1970), rest are all modern, but
                                                                                      > very well done.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Doug
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > --- Imp Ster <iimpster@...> wrote:
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > > a surly & uninformed voice on the other end of the
                                                                                      > > line, eh?
                                                                                      > > now why does that not surpise me?
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > reading previous posts here and at another certain
                                                                                      > > HO Y-Group,
                                                                                      > > something about how "..if the mfg's couldnt make
                                                                                      > > enough $$ on small
                                                                                      > > parts runs.." as reason why they dropped us
                                                                                      > > craft-rails on our a** over
                                                                                      > > the years.
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > well i got another name for it - plain old greed.
                                                                                      > > how much does it take to pay off that condo or Caddy
                                                                                      > > or Escalade or
                                                                                      > > Lexus or whatever the well-heeled robber baron
                                                                                      > > drives (..or has driven
                                                                                      > > for them) these days?
                                                                                      > > or is it simply burnout? ..does the time come when
                                                                                      > > the thought of
                                                                                      > > producing more toy trains (spare me) causes nothing
                                                                                      > > but that sinking
                                                                                      > > feeling of despair?
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > back in '99, i was all agog over preserving the dies
                                                                                      > > for classic
                                                                                      > > Athearn metal drive train components, you know, the
                                                                                      > > marvelous chrome-
                                                                                      > > plated trucks as seen on the UP versons of the PAs,
                                                                                      > > SDs and others.
                                                                                      > > so i wore out several hundred minutes of pre-paid
                                                                                      > > long distance,
                                                                                      > > inquiring up and down the line at Athearn and
                                                                                      > > elsewhere, trying to find
                                                                                      > > out (A) what happened to the dies (B) who had the
                                                                                      > > patents if any (C)
                                                                                      > > were there any parts reliably available?
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > well you might have thought i was after something
                                                                                      > > unseemly or
                                                                                      > > subversive or just plain ridiculous, judging from
                                                                                      > > the various responses
                                                                                      > > i got.
                                                                                      > > nobody knew or cared what became of the dies, all
                                                                                      > > the parts were gone,
                                                                                      > > and this was BEFORE the merger with Horizon.
                                                                                      > > i think it's safe to say that i can pirate and clone
                                                                                      > > whatever i want.
                                                                                      > > for COMMERCIAL production!
                                                                                      > > (i get the distinct feeling that Irv is looking down
                                                                                      > > and egging me on,
                                                                                      > > too!)
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > there is a curious malaise seeping down (dumbing
                                                                                      > > down) from top levels
                                                                                      > > of the coporate corpses out there.
                                                                                      > > as, nobody seem to have much of an interest in new
                                                                                      > > tooling for
                                                                                      > > metal... or even preserving what little is left.
                                                                                      > > fanciful (re)painting of existing (plastic) product
                                                                                      > > for promotional
                                                                                      > > larks seem to be the extent of artistic endeavor
                                                                                      > > these days.
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > well i am fed up with subsisting on cast-offs,
                                                                                      > > hand-me-downs and out-
                                                                                      > > sourced plasticised clones of previously full-metal
                                                                                      > > USA-made items.
                                                                                      > > i'm looking at a final-run Mantua Hudson box with a
                                                                                      > > $237.oo price tag (
                                                                                      > > generously discounted to a "mere" $175.oo ) and
                                                                                      > > wondering if they
                                                                                      > > deliberately sabotaged their business as some kind
                                                                                      > > of a parting shot.
                                                                                      > > this model used to retail RTR for under $50, the kit
                                                                                      > > could be had for
                                                                                      > > about $27. in the late 70's.
                                                                                      > > even accounting for the worst sort of inflation, it
                                                                                      > > doesnt cost $100.
                                                                                      > > to pump out product from dies that paid for
                                                                                      > > themselves long ago.
                                                                                      > > the only answer i am left with is greed.
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > today, the Hot Wheels and Matchbox names are
                                                                                      > > revitalised and are
                                                                                      > > flooding the WalMarts with laser-printed die-cast
                                                                                      > > vehicles retailing
                                                                                      > > at .79 less than the $1.50 we used to happily pay,
                                                                                      > > while Walthers has
                                                                                      > > the insular greedy nerve to list their plastic Fords
                                                                                      > > (in kit form, no
                                                                                      > > less) for well over $15., if you can get them at
                                                                                      > > all.
                                                                                      > > o, take a flying leap, Walthers... i'm going to
                                                                                      > > WalMart and fill my
                                                                                      > > basket with metal panel trucks, caddys, chevys, olds
                                                                                      > > and more, and with
                                                                                      > > the $$ i save, i will paint them in period colors
                                                                                      > > myself...
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > okay, so we get to Central Valley at last.
                                                                                      > > how the mighty have fallen.
                                                                                      > > but its bad form to speak ill of the dead.
                                                                                      > > so i will end this rant with the sop thrown to the
                                                                                      > > masses and the glove
                                                                                      > > cast down before the greedy robber barons:
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > (A) we are not amused.
                                                                                      > > (B) this aint over yet.
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > grr, etc
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > ...
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 917 From: Ray Hobin Date: 2/11/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Mantua clear loco
                                                                                      On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 20:09:24 -0600, you wrote:


                                                                                      >Last year at Trainfest (C) the Lionel Club was running a pair of the Classic
                                                                                      >Lionel F-3's with clear bodies.

                                                                                      In 1999 or 2000, at the huge TCA York meet, Lionel supplied some clear F3s
                                                                                      as door prizes.


                                                                                      Ray Hobin
                                                                                      NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX
                                                                                      Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 918 From: Dave Slater Date: 2/11/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: HO scale vehicles at Wally World!
                                                                                      I have yet to see these vehicles up here on the "Wild Frozen Canadian
                                                                                      Prairies"... <SIGH>
                                                                                      Dave S.

                                                                                      Rob K. Nielsen wrote:
                                                                                      > Greetings,
                                                                                      > They should have a '69 Camaro, a VW Kafer Bug, a Mercedes 300SL Wing
                                                                                      > door, Porche 356B 1959, '60's AC Cobra, VW Karman Ghia Coupe. They are
                                                                                      > the same as Model Powers cars but inexpensive. I've puchased 34 so far
                                                                                      > but have not worried too much about eras, just something to quickly
                                                                                      > populate the railroad with vehicles (once I get one built).
                                                                                      > Rob, KC7WVN
                                                                                      > Cobalt Creek and Western
                                                                                      > RK Industries
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > On Thu, 9 Feb 2006 06:41:34 -0800 (PST) Douglas Krahn
                                                                                      > <dougkrahn@...> writes:
                                                                                      > > Walmart now has some VERY Nice HO scale cars for
                                                                                      > > $1.69. Only old car are models of 1955 Chevy BelAir
                                                                                      > > and a VW Bus (1960/1970), rest are all modern, but
                                                                                      > > very well done.
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > Doug
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > --- Imp Ster <iimpster@...> wrote:
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > > a surly & uninformed voice on the other end of the
                                                                                      > > > line, eh?
                                                                                      > > > now why does that not surpise me?
                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                      > > > reading previous posts here and at another certain
                                                                                      > > > HO Y-Group,
                                                                                      > > > something about how "..if the mfg's couldnt make
                                                                                      > > > enough $$ on small
                                                                                      > > > parts runs.." as reason why they dropped us
                                                                                      > > > craft-rails on our a** over
                                                                                      > > > the years.
                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                      > > > well i got another name for it - plain old greed.
                                                                                      > > > how much does it take to pay off that condo or Caddy
                                                                                      > > > or Escalade or
                                                                                      > > > Lexus or whatever the well-heeled robber baron
                                                                                      > > > drives (..or has driven
                                                                                      > > > for them) these days?
                                                                                      > > > or is it simply burnout? ..does the time come when
                                                                                      > > > the thought of
                                                                                      > > > producing more toy trains (spare me) causes nothing
                                                                                      > > > but that sinking
                                                                                      > > > feeling of despair?
                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                      > > > back in '99, i was all agog over preserving the dies
                                                                                      > > > for classic
                                                                                      > > > Athearn metal drive train components, you know, the
                                                                                      > > > marvelous chrome-
                                                                                      > > > plated trucks as seen on the UP versons of the PAs,
                                                                                      > > > SDs and others.
                                                                                      > > > so i wore out several hundred minutes of pre-paid
                                                                                      > > > long distance,
                                                                                      > > > inquiring up and down the line at Athearn and
                                                                                      > > > elsewhere, trying to find
                                                                                      > > > out (A) what happened to the dies (B) who had the
                                                                                      > > > patents if any (C)
                                                                                      > > > were there any parts reliably available?
                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                      > > > well you might have thought i was after something
                                                                                      > > > unseemly or
                                                                                      > > > subversive or just plain ridiculous, judging from
                                                                                      > > > the various responses
                                                                                      > > > i got.
                                                                                      > > > nobody knew or cared what became of the dies, all
                                                                                      > > > the parts were gone,
                                                                                      > > > and this was BEFORE the merger with Horizon.
                                                                                      > > > i think it's safe to say that i can pirate and clone
                                                                                      > > > whatever i want.
                                                                                      > > > for COMMERCIAL production!
                                                                                      > > > (i get the distinct feeling that Irv is looking down
                                                                                      > > > and egging me on,
                                                                                      > > > too!)
                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                      > > > there is a curious malaise seeping down (dumbing
                                                                                      > > > down) from top levels
                                                                                      > > > of the coporate corpses out there.
                                                                                      > > > as, nobody seem to have much of an interest in new
                                                                                      > > > tooling for
                                                                                      > > > metal... or even preserving what little is left.
                                                                                      > > > fanciful (re)painting of existing (plastic) product
                                                                                      > > > for promotional
                                                                                      > > > larks seem to be the extent of artistic endeavor
                                                                                      > > > these days.
                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                      > > > well i am fed up with subsisting on cast-offs,
                                                                                      > > > hand-me-downs and out-
                                                                                      > > > sourced plasticised clones of previously full-metal
                                                                                      > > > USA-made items.
                                                                                      > > > i'm looking at a final-run Mantua Hudson box with a
                                                                                      > > > $237.oo price tag (
                                                                                      > > > generously discounted to a "mere" $175.oo ) and
                                                                                      > > > wondering if they
                                                                                      > > > deliberately sabotaged their business as some kind
                                                                                      > > > of a parting shot.
                                                                                      > > > this model used to retail RTR for under $50, the kit
                                                                                      > > > could be had for
                                                                                      > > > about $27. in the late 70's.
                                                                                      > > > even accounting for the worst sort of inflation, it
                                                                                      > > > doesnt cost $100.
                                                                                      > > > to pump out product from dies that paid for
                                                                                      > > > themselves long ago.
                                                                                      > > > the only answer i am left with is greed.
                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                      > > > today, the Hot Wheels and Matchbox names are
                                                                                      > > > revitalised and are
                                                                                      > > > flooding the WalMarts with laser-printed die-cast
                                                                                      > > > vehicles retailing
                                                                                      > > > at .79 less than the $1.50 we used to happily pay,
                                                                                      > > > while Walthers has
                                                                                      > > > the insular greedy nerve to list their plastic Fords
                                                                                      > > > (in kit form, no
                                                                                      > > > less) for well over $15., if you can get them at
                                                                                      > > > all.
                                                                                      > > > o, take a flying leap, Walthers... i'm going to
                                                                                      > > > WalMart and fill my
                                                                                      > > > basket with metal panel trucks, caddys, chevys, olds
                                                                                      > > > and more, and with
                                                                                      > > > the $$ i save, i will paint them in period colors
                                                                                      > > > myself...
                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                      > > > okay, so we get to Central Valley at last.
                                                                                      > > > how the mighty have fallen.
                                                                                      > > > but its bad form to speak ill of the dead.
                                                                                      > > > so i will end this rant with the sop thrown to the
                                                                                      > > > masses and the glove
                                                                                      > > > cast down before the greedy robber barons:
                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                      > > > (A) we are not amused.
                                                                                      > > > (B) this aint over yet.
                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                      > > > grr, etc
                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                      > > > ...
                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > SPONSORED LINKS
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                                                                                      > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=G+scale+train&w1=G+scale+train&w2=Ho+scale+model+train&w3=Model+train+n+scale&w4=G+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&w6=N+scale+trains&c=6&s=136&.sig=f19Q3X9pY2AZp3CHkNWYZw>
                                                                                      > Ho scale model train
                                                                                      > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ho+scale+model+train&w1=G+scale+train&w2=Ho+scale+model+train&w3=Model+train+n+scale&w4=G+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&w6=N+scale+trains&c=6&s=136&.sig=F6asK7Ix0wVnB74PfHYYcg>
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                                                                                      > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Model+train+n+scale&w1=G+scale+train&w2=Ho+scale+model+train&w3=Model+train+n+scale&w4=G+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&w6=N+scale+trains&c=6&s=136&.sig=qBgsM4EoFI8MvQKulYZ_zQ>
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > G scale model train
                                                                                      > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=G+scale+model+train&w1=G+scale+train&w2=Ho+scale+model+train&w3=Model+train+n+scale&w4=G+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&w6=N+scale+trains&c=6&s=136&.sig=xeLKBZkBSB-tQWBeD7HRnQ>
                                                                                      > Ho scale trains
                                                                                      > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ho+scale+trains&w1=G+scale+train&w2=Ho+scale+model+train&w3=Model+train+n+scale&w4=G+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&w6=N+scale+trains&c=6&s=136&.sig=0ybvhtrqTgbqmDcSkOOP1w>
                                                                                      > N scale trains
                                                                                      > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=N+scale+trains&w1=G+scale+train&w2=Ho+scale+model+train&w3=Model+train+n+scale&w4=G+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&w6=N+scale+trains&c=6&s=136&.sig=thUHjhzywK2ZJIYcShcTTQ>
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
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                                                                                      > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                                                                      > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.6/257 - Release Date: 10/02/2006
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 919 From: Douglas Krahn Date: 2/11/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: HO scale vehicles at Wally World!
                                                                                      Dave:

                                                                                      They arrived here about 3 weeks ago. they are easy to
                                                                                      miss. They should be located with the model cars

                                                                                      As we don't all get the same goodies, you may inquire.
                                                                                      The cars are very nice. The local modellers have
                                                                                      cleaned out the local stores here at laest once and a
                                                                                      couple twice.

                                                                                      Good Hunting!

                                                                                      Doug


                                                                                      --- Dave Slater <daslater@...> wrote:

                                                                                      > I have yet to see these vehicles up here on the
                                                                                      > "Wild Frozen Canadian
                                                                                      > Prairies"... <SIGH>
                                                                                      > Dave S.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 920 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/12/2006
                                                                                      Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
                                                                                      Hello,

                                                                                      This email message is a notification to let you know that
                                                                                      a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vintageHO
                                                                                      group.

                                                                                      File : /2-6-2_stars.jpg
                                                                                      Uploaded by : iimpster <iimpster@...>
                                                                                      Description : 2-6-2 Prairie Art - 'The Starlight Express'

                                                                                      You can access this file at the URL:
                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/2-6-2_stars.jpg

                                                                                      To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
                                                                                      http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

                                                                                      Regards,

                                                                                      iimpster <iimpster@...>
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 921 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/12/2006
                                                                                      Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
                                                                                      Hello,

                                                                                      This email message is a notification to let you know that
                                                                                      a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vintageHO
                                                                                      group.

                                                                                      File : /Great Northern Goat.jpg
                                                                                      Uploaded by : iimpster <iimpster@...>
                                                                                      Description : GN Goat logo

                                                                                      You can access this file at the URL:
                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/Great%20Northern%20Goat.jpg

                                                                                      To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
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                                                                                      Regards,

                                                                                      iimpster <iimpster@...>
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 922 From: Dave Slater Date: 2/12/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: HO scale vehicles at Wally World!
                                                                                      Doug,
                                                                                      I'll have to look again in a few days maybe they will re-stock the shelves.
                                                                                      Are you also here in the "Frozen Canadian Prairies"???
                                                                                      Dave S.

                                                                                      Douglas Krahn wrote:
                                                                                      > Dave:
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > They arrived here about 3 weeks ago. they are easy to
                                                                                      > miss. They should be located with the model cars
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > As we don't all get the same goodies, you may inquire.
                                                                                      > The cars are very nice. The local modellers have
                                                                                      > cleaned out the local stores here at laest once and a
                                                                                      > couple twice.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Good Hunting!
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Doug
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 923 From: Jack Priller Date: 2/12/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: New file uploaded to vintageHO
                                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, vintageHO@yahoogroups.com wrote:
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Hello,
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > This email message is a notification to let you know that
                                                                                      > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vintageHO
                                                                                      > group.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > File : /2-6-2_stars.jpg
                                                                                      > Uploaded by : iimpster <iimpster@...>
                                                                                      > Description : 2-6-2 Prairie Art - 'The Starlight Express'
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > You can access this file at the URL:
                                                                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/2-6-2_stars.jpg
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
                                                                                      > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Regards,
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > iimpster <iimpster@...>

                                                                                      That should be a Christmas card! Absolutely bee-u-T-ful, man.

                                                                                      Ye Olde Trolleynut
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 924 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/12/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: New file uploaded to vintageHO
                                                                                      Maybe we can use this pic. on the front page next Christmas season. Very nice.
                                                                                      Gramps

                                                                                      Jack Priller <westpac67@...> wrote:
                                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, vintageHO@yahoogroups.com wrote:
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Hello,
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > This email message is a notification to let you know that
                                                                                      > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vintageHO
                                                                                      > group.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >   File        : /2-6-2_stars.jpg
                                                                                      >   Uploaded by : iimpster <iimpster@...>
                                                                                      >   Description : 2-6-2 Prairie Art - 'The Starlight Express'
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > You can access this file at the URL:
                                                                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/2-6-2_stars.jpg
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
                                                                                      > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Regards,
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > iimpster <iimpster@...>

                                                                                        That should be a Christmas card! Absolutely bee-u-T-ful, man.

                                                                                      Ye Olde Trolleynut







                                                                                      Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!

                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 925 From: don.dellmann Date: 2/12/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: New file uploaded to vintageHO
                                                                                      Somebody remind me about next November, I'll forget.

                                                                                      Don

                                                                                      don.dellmann@...
                                                                                      http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                      moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO


                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      From: Chuck Svihlik <c_t_j_dad@...>
                                                                                      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                      Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 9:59 AM
                                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: New file uploaded to vintageHO


                                                                                      > Maybe we can use this pic. on the front page next Christmas season. Very
                                                                                      nice.
                                                                                      > Gramps
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Jack Priller <westpac67@...> wrote:
                                                                                      > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, vintageHO@yahoogroups.com wrote:
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > Hello,
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > This email message is a notification to let you know that
                                                                                      > > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vintageHO
                                                                                      > > group.
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > File : /2-6-2_stars.jpg
                                                                                      > > Uploaded by : iimpster <iimpster@...>
                                                                                      > > Description : 2-6-2 Prairie Art - 'The Starlight Express'
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > You can access this file at the URL:
                                                                                      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/2-6-2_stars.jpg
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
                                                                                      > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > Regards,
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > iimpster <iimpster@...>
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > That should be a Christmas card! Absolutely bee-u-T-ful, man.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Ye Olde Trolleynut
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
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                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 926 From: Don Riley Date: 2/12/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: New file uploaded to vintageHO
                                                                                      Yeah that would be kinda cool! (Starlight express)
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Steamengine 4449

                                                                                      Chuck Svihlik <c_t_j_dad@...> wrote:
                                                                                      Maybe we can use this pic. on the front page next Christmas season. Very nice.
                                                                                      Gramps


                                                                                      Yahoo! Mail
                                                                                      Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.

                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 927 From: Roger Aultman Date: 2/12/2006
                                                                                      Subject: eBay?
                                                                                      Are mentions of eBay auctions of vintage h-0 equipment permmitted on
                                                                                      this group?

                                                                                      Roger Aultman
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 928 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/12/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: eBay?
                                                                                      Roger
                                                                                      If this is in reference to my trying to help members find a deal, then I am sorry. I just wanted to call attention to a loco, I was not the seller and had nothing to gain. I'm just an old fool who likes to help ! All of the other groups I belong to appreciate the help, and many members even post if they win. I don't want to cause a problem. This is one group I really enjoy.
                                                                                      Gramps

                                                                                      Roger Aultman <raul@...> wrote:
                                                                                      Are mentions of eBay auctions of vintage h-0 equipment permmitted on
                                                                                      this group?

                                                                                      Roger Aultman





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                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 929 From: Roger Aultman Date: 2/12/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: eBay?
                                                                                      Not the issue Chuck, I have listed some Varney items on eBay and could
                                                                                      post the URL to members if permissable. Roger



                                                                                      Chuck Svihlik wrote:
                                                                                      > Roger
                                                                                      > If this is in reference to my trying to help members find a deal, then I
                                                                                      > am sorry. I just wanted to call attention to a loco, I was not the
                                                                                      > seller and had nothing to gain. I'm just an old fool who likes to help !
                                                                                      > All of the other groups I belong to appreciate the help, and many
                                                                                      > members even post if they win. I don't want to cause a problem. This is
                                                                                      > one group I really enjoy.
                                                                                      > Gramps
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Roger Aultman <raul@...> wrote:
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Are mentions of eBay auctions of vintage h-0 equipment permmitted on
                                                                                      > this group?
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Roger Aultman
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
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                                                                                      > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ho+scale+model+train&w1=G+scale+train&w2=Ho+scale+model+train&w3=Model+train+n+scale&w4=G+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&w6=N+scale+trains&c=6&s=136&.sig=F6asK7Ix0wVnB74PfHYYcg>
                                                                                      > Model train n scale
                                                                                      > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Model+train+n+scale&w1=G+scale+train&w2=Ho+scale+model+train&w3=Model+train+n+scale&w4=G+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&w6=N+scale+trains&c=6&s=136&.sig=qBgsM4EoFI8MvQKulYZ_zQ>
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > G scale model train
                                                                                      > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=G+scale+model+train&w1=G+scale+train&w2=Ho+scale+model+train&w3=Model+train+n+scale&w4=G+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&w6=N+scale+trains&c=6&s=136&.sig=xeLKBZkBSB-tQWBeD7HRnQ>
                                                                                      > Ho scale trains
                                                                                      > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ho+scale+trains&w1=G+scale+train&w2=Ho+scale+model+train&w3=Model+train+n+scale&w4=G+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&w6=N+scale+trains&c=6&s=136&.sig=0ybvhtrqTgbqmDcSkOOP1w>
                                                                                      > N scale trains
                                                                                      > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=N+scale+trains&w1=G+scale+train&w2=Ho+scale+model+train&w3=Model+train+n+scale&w4=G+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&w6=N+scale+trains&c=6&s=136&.sig=thUHjhzywK2ZJIYcShcTTQ>
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                      > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > * Visit your group "vintageHO
                                                                                      > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO>" on the web.
                                                                                      >
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                                                                                      Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
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                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 930 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/12/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: eBay?
                                                                                      Happy to hear that Roger, I always like to check eBay and I will look for your trains.
                                                                                      Gramps

                                                                                      Roger Aultman <raul@...> wrote:
                                                                                      Not the issue Chuck, I have listed some Varney items on eBay and could
                                                                                      post the URL to members if permissable.   Roger



                                                                                      Chuck Svihlik wrote:
                                                                                      > Roger
                                                                                      > If this is in reference to my trying to help members find a deal, then I
                                                                                      > am sorry. I just wanted to call attention to a loco, I was not the
                                                                                      > seller and had nothing to gain. I'm just an old fool who likes to help !
                                                                                      > All of the other groups I belong to appreciate the help, and many
                                                                                      > members even post if they win. I don't want to cause a problem. This is
                                                                                      > one group I really enjoy.
                                                                                      > Gramps
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Roger Aultman <raul@...> wrote:
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >     Are mentions of eBay auctions of vintage h-0 equipment permmitted on
                                                                                      >     this group?
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >     Roger Aultman
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                      >     YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >         *  Visit your group "vintageHO
                                                                                      >           <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO>" on the web.
                                                                                      >           
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                                                                                      >           Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                      > Yahoo! Autos <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=38381/
                                                                                      > ylc=X3oDMTEzcGlrdGY5BF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDMWF1dG9z/*http://autos.yahoo.com/index.html
                                                                                      >  >. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on new and
                                                                                      > used cars.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > SPONSORED LINKS
                                                                                      > G scale train
                                                                                      > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=G+scale+train&w1=G+scale+train&w2=Ho+scale+model+train&w3=Model+train+n+scale&w4=G+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&w6=N+scale+trains&c=6&s=136&.sig=f19Q3X9pY2AZp3CHkNWYZw>
                                                                                      > Ho scale model train
                                                                                      > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ho+scale+model+train&w1=G+scale+train&w2=Ho+scale+model+train&w3=Model+train+n+scale&w4=G+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&w6=N+scale+trains&c=6&s=136&.sig=F6asK7Ix0wVnB74PfHYYcg>
                                                                                      > Model train n scale
                                                                                      > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Model+train+n+scale&w1=G+scale+train&w2=Ho+scale+model+train&w3=Model+train+n+scale&w4=G+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&w6=N+scale+trains&c=6&s=136&.sig=qBgsM4EoFI8MvQKulYZ_zQ>
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > G scale model train
                                                                                      > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=G+scale+model+train&w1=G+scale+train&w2=Ho+scale+model+train&w3=Model+train+n+scale&w4=G+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&w6=N+scale+trains&c=6&s=136&.sig=xeLKBZkBSB-tQWBeD7HRnQ>
                                                                                      > Ho scale trains
                                                                                      > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ho+scale+trains&w1=G+scale+train&w2=Ho+scale+model+train&w3=Model+train+n+scale&w4=G+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&w6=N+scale+trains&c=6&s=136&.sig=0ybvhtrqTgbqmDcSkOOP1w>
                                                                                      > N scale trains
                                                                                      > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=N+scale+trains&w1=G+scale+train&w2=Ho+scale+model+train&w3=Model+train+n+scale&w4=G+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&w6=N+scale+trains&c=6&s=136&.sig=thUHjhzywK2ZJIYcShcTTQ>
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                      > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >     *  Visit your group "vintageHO
                                                                                      >       <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO>" on the web.
                                                                                      >       
                                                                                      >     *  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                      >        vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                                                                                      Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
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                                                                                      G scale train Ho scale model train Model train n scale
                                                                                      G scale model train Ho scale trains N scale trains


                                                                                      Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!

                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 931 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/13/2006
                                                                                      Subject: New photos
                                                                                      Hi, I just added 2 new photos. I got these from a friend and we are
                                                                                      wondering who made this loco. It's a 2-8-4 with what I'm told is a
                                                                                      brass boiler.
                                                                                      Gramps
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 932 From: don.dellmann Date: 2/13/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: eBay?
                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      From: Roger Aultman <raul@...>
                                                                                      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                      Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 7:27 PM
                                                                                      Subject: [vintageHO] eBay?


                                                                                      > Are mentions of eBay auctions of vintage h-0 equipment permmitted on
                                                                                      > this group?
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Roger Aultman

                                                                                      Yes, as long as it doesn't get out of hand.

                                                                                      Don

                                                                                      don.dellmann@...
                                                                                      http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                      moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 933 From: don.dellmann Date: 2/13/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: New photos
                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      From: Chuck Svihlik <c_t_j_dad@...>
                                                                                      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                      Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 2:56 PM
                                                                                      Subject: [vintageHO] New photos


                                                                                      > Hi, I just added 2 new photos. I got these from a friend and we are
                                                                                      > wondering who made this loco. It's a 2-8-4 with what I'm told is a
                                                                                      > brass boiler.
                                                                                      > Gramps

                                                                                      I'm wondering if it might be a Winton?

                                                                                      Don

                                                                                      don.dellmann@...
                                                                                      http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                      moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
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                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 934 From: Roger Aultman Date: 2/13/2006
                                                                                      Subject: FA eBay old boxcar
                                                                                      If the winner of this beauty can identify the manufacturer I will
                                                                                      knock a dollar of the price. Roger Aultman

                                                                                      http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6036680522
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 935 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 2/13/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: New photos
                                                                                      Yes, it's definitely a Winton. 
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Yardy
                                                                                        
                                                                                       
                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 2:39 PM
                                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] New photos


                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      From: Chuck Svihlik <c_t_j_dad@...>
                                                                                      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                      Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 2:56 PM
                                                                                      Subject: [vintageHO] New photos


                                                                                      > Hi, I just added 2 new photos. I got these from a friend and we are
                                                                                      > wondering who made this loco. It's a 2-8-4 with what I'm told is a
                                                                                      > brass boiler.
                                                                                      > Gramps

                                                                                      I'm wondering if it might be a Winton?

                                                                                      Don

                                                                                      don.dellmann@...
                                                                                      http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                      moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO

                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 936 From: Roger Aultman Date: 2/13/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: FA eBay old boxcar
                                                                                      Roger Aultman wrote:
                                                                                      > If the winner of this beauty can identify the manufacturer I will
                                                                                      > knock a dollar of the price. Roger Aultman
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6036680522
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >


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                                                                                      Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 937 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/14/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Winton
                                                                                      Can anyone give me some details about Winton? I can't remember much
                                                                                      about them except seeing there articulated. the 2-8-4 to me is not a
                                                                                      very handsome loco but I'm wondering if it's just the way it was
                                                                                      photographed.Did these locos' have good running qualities and what time
                                                                                      frame are they from?
                                                                                      Gramps
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 938 From: erieberk Date: 2/14/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Winton
                                                                                      Chuck, While the Winton Berkskshire is lacking in looks, the
                                                                                      Allegheny is an extremely nice looking engine. While they were well
                                                                                      engineered in their manufacture and design, they were a bear to put
                                                                                      together in those days unless you were really good at soldering.
                                                                                      With today's super-glues and epoxies, assembly would be much easier.
                                                                                      Being designed well, they ran quite good. I have a built-up
                                                                                      Allegheny which runs nicely. Neither of my kits (Allegheny or
                                                                                      Berkshire) have any dates on their instruction sheets, but my these
                                                                                      models are included in my 1950 Model Railway Equipment Corp. (New
                                                                                      York -- Carmen Webster) catalog, although it was no longer offered in
                                                                                      my 1953 M.R.E.C. catalog, so it gives you some idea of when they were
                                                                                      produced (late '40's -- very early '50's, at the latest). Ray W.
                                                                                      \
                                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Svihlik" <c_t_j_dad@...>
                                                                                      wrote:
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Can anyone give me some details about Winton? I can't remember much
                                                                                      > about them except seeing there articulated. the 2-8-4 to me is not
                                                                                      a
                                                                                      > very handsome loco but I'm wondering if it's just the way it was
                                                                                      > photographed.Did these locos' have good running qualities and what
                                                                                      time
                                                                                      > frame are they from?
                                                                                      > Gramps
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 939 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/14/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Winton
                                                                                      Thanks Ray, I remember seeing some ads many years ago but couldn't find any info.
                                                                                      Do you know if they made anyother types of locos?
                                                                                      gramps

                                                                                      erieberk <erieberk@...> wrote:
                                                                                      Chuck,  While the Winton Berkskshire is lacking in looks, the
                                                                                      Allegheny is an extremely nice looking engine.  While they were well
                                                                                      engineered in their manufacture and design, they were a bear to put
                                                                                      together in those days unless you were really good at soldering. 
                                                                                      With today's super-glues and epoxies, assembly would be much easier. 
                                                                                      Being designed well, they ran quite good.  I have a built-up
                                                                                      Allegheny which runs nicely.  Neither of my kits (Allegheny or
                                                                                      Berkshire) have any dates on their instruction sheets, but my these
                                                                                      models are included in my 1950 Model Railway Equipment Corp. (New
                                                                                      York -- Carmen Webster) catalog, although it was no longer offered in
                                                                                      my 1953 M.R.E.C. catalog, so it gives you some idea of when they were
                                                                                      produced (late '40's -- very early '50's, at the latest).  Ray W.   
                                                                                      \                                                                    
                                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Svihlik" <c_t_j_dad@...>
                                                                                      wrote:
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Can anyone give me some details about Winton? I can't remember much
                                                                                      > about them except seeing there articulated. the 2-8-4 to me is not
                                                                                      a
                                                                                      > very handsome loco but I'm wondering if it's just the way it was
                                                                                      > photographed.Did these locos' have good running qualities and what
                                                                                      time
                                                                                      > frame are they from?
                                                                                      > Gramps
                                                                                      >






                                                                                      Yahoo! Mail
                                                                                      Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.

                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 940 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/14/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Be careful
                                                                                      Just saw this in the S gauge group I belong to:
                                                                                      there are new scams dealing with eBay. Even if you are not the high
                                                                                      bidder on an item, you may receive an official looking email giving you
                                                                                      a second chance offer. The email looks exactly like mail from
                                                                                      eBay.Unless the offer comes from the seller do not reply, and give any
                                                                                      information.Forward the email to eBay so that they can deal with it.
                                                                                      I have received a few of these in the past but never paid much
                                                                                      attention and just deleted them.
                                                                                      Gramps
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 941 From: jim gerstley Date: 2/14/2006
                                                                                      Subject: MHP COLA for sale
                                                                                      With the permission of the list owner, I'm posting this.
                                                                                      Dick Wright of MHP made a few kits of the 1938 COLA cars. I
                                                                                      have 11--all except the chair and the auxiliary power car. Cars
                                                                                      are assembled,roofs fitted and floors attached,no details,no
                                                                                      trucks,no boxes. Asking $330 for 11 cars.Four wheel trucks
                                                                                      avail separately.Contact off-list for more info. Thanks
                                                                                      Jim Gerstley
                                                                                      jimggers@...
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 942 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/14/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Winton
                                                                                      Ray, what motor did they use?
                                                                                      Gramps
                                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "erieberk" <erieberk@...> wrote:
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Chuck, While the Winton Berkskshire is lacking in looks, the
                                                                                      > Allegheny is an extremely nice looking engine. While they were
                                                                                      well
                                                                                      > engineered in their manufacture and design, they were a bear to put
                                                                                      > together in those days unless you were really good at soldering.
                                                                                      > With today's super-glues and epoxies, assembly would be much
                                                                                      easier.
                                                                                      > Being designed well, they ran quite good. I have a built-up
                                                                                      > Allegheny which runs nicely. Neither of my kits (Allegheny or
                                                                                      > Berkshire) have any dates on their instruction sheets, but my these
                                                                                      > models are included in my 1950 Model Railway Equipment Corp. (New
                                                                                      > York -- Carmen Webster) catalog, although it was no longer offered
                                                                                      in
                                                                                      > my 1953 M.R.E.C. catalog, so it gives you some idea of when they
                                                                                      were
                                                                                      > produced (late '40's -- very early '50's, at the latest). Ray
                                                                                      W.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      \

                                                                                      >
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 943 From: don.dellmann Date: 2/14/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: MHP COLA for sale
                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      From: jim gerstley <jimggers@...>
                                                                                      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                      Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 4:57 PM
                                                                                      Subject: [vintageHO] MHP COLA for sale


                                                                                      > With the permission of the list owner, I'm posting this.
                                                                                      > Dick Wright of MHP made a few kits of the 1938 COLA cars. I
                                                                                      > have 11--all except the chair and the auxiliary power car. Cars
                                                                                      > are assembled,roofs fitted and floors attached,no details,no
                                                                                      > trucks,no boxes. Asking $330 for 11 cars.Four wheel trucks
                                                                                      > avail separately.Contact off-list for more info. Thanks
                                                                                      > Jim Gerstley
                                                                                      > jimggers@...

                                                                                      I have a few of the MHP cars myself, they're very nice kits.

                                                                                      Don

                                                                                      don.dellmann@...
                                                                                      http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                      moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 944 From: erieberk Date: 2/15/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Winton
                                                                                      Chuck, They used a Pittman DC-91 (hugh motor for HO). Ray
                                                                                      \
                                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Svihlik" <c_t_j_dad@...>
                                                                                      wrote:
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Ray, what motor did they use?
                                                                                      > Gramps
                                                                                      > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "erieberk" <erieberk@> wrote:
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > Chuck, While the Winton Berkskshire is lacking in looks, the
                                                                                      > > Allegheny is an extremely nice looking engine. While they were
                                                                                      > well
                                                                                      > > engineered in their manufacture and design, they were a bear to
                                                                                      put
                                                                                      > > together in those days unless you were really good at soldering.
                                                                                      > > With today's super-glues and epoxies, assembly would be much
                                                                                      > easier.
                                                                                      > > Being designed well, they ran quite good. I have a built-up
                                                                                      > > Allegheny which runs nicely. Neither of my kits (Allegheny or
                                                                                      > > Berkshire) have any dates on their instruction sheets, but my
                                                                                      these
                                                                                      > > models are included in my 1950 Model Railway Equipment Corp. (New
                                                                                      > > York -- Carmen Webster) catalog, although it was no longer
                                                                                      offered
                                                                                      > in
                                                                                      > > my 1953 M.R.E.C. catalog, so it gives you some idea of when they
                                                                                      > were
                                                                                      > > produced (late '40's -- very early '50's, at the latest). Ray
                                                                                      > W.
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      \
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 945 From: erieberk Date: 2/15/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Winton
                                                                                      Chuck, Many years ago, I thought that I had read somewhere that they
                                                                                      made a much smaller engine also, like a 4-4-0, but I was probably
                                                                                      mistaken on that. The Model Railroad Equipment Corp. catalog just
                                                                                      lists the Berkshire and the Allegheny. I don't have the Winton
                                                                                      catalog (wish I did). As I have a near complete collection of MR
                                                                                      magazine, I'll check for their ads around that time period to let you
                                                                                      know for sure, but that may take me a while. Ray W.
                                                                                      \
                                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Chuck Svihlik <c_t_j_dad@...> wrote:
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Thanks Ray, I remember seeing some ads many years ago but couldn't
                                                                                      find any info.
                                                                                      > Do you know if they made anyother types of locos?
                                                                                      > gramps
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > erieberk <erieberk@...> wrote:
                                                                                      > Chuck, While the Winton Berkskshire is lacking in looks, the
                                                                                      > Allegheny is an extremely nice looking engine. While they were
                                                                                      well
                                                                                      > engineered in their manufacture and design, they were a bear to put
                                                                                      > together in those days unless you were really good at soldering.
                                                                                      > With today's super-glues and epoxies, assembly would be much
                                                                                      easier.
                                                                                      > Being designed well, they ran quite good. I have a built-up
                                                                                      > Allegheny which runs nicely. Neither of my kits (Allegheny or
                                                                                      > Berkshire) have any dates on their instruction sheets, but my these
                                                                                      > models are included in my 1950 Model Railway Equipment Corp. (New
                                                                                      > York -- Carmen Webster) catalog, although it was no longer offered
                                                                                      in
                                                                                      > my 1953 M.R.E.C. catalog, so it gives you some idea of when they
                                                                                      were
                                                                                      > produced (late '40's -- very early '50's, at the latest). Ray
                                                                                      W.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      \
                                                                                      > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Svihlik" <c_t_j_dad@>
                                                                                      > wrote:
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > Can anyone give me some details about Winton? I can't remember
                                                                                      much
                                                                                      > > about them except seeing there articulated. the 2-8-4 to me is
                                                                                      not
                                                                                      > a
                                                                                      > > very handsome loco but I'm wondering if it's just the way it was
                                                                                      > > photographed.Did these locos' have good running qualities and
                                                                                      what
                                                                                      > time
                                                                                      > > frame are they from?
                                                                                      > > Gramps
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > SPONSORED LINKS
                                                                                      > G scale train Ho scale model train Model train n
                                                                                      scale G scale model train Ho scale trains N scale trains
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > ---------------------------------
                                                                                      > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Visit your group "vintageHO" on the web.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                      > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                      Service.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > ---------------------------------
                                                                                      >
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                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > ---------------------------------
                                                                                      > Yahoo! Mail
                                                                                      > Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 946 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/15/2006
                                                                                      Subject: re Winton
                                                                                      Thanks Ray, I don't remember ever having a loco with that large of a
                                                                                      motor. It might sound strange but the more I look at the photos I have
                                                                                      of the Berk., the more it grows on me. I believe I saw a Winton 4-4-0
                                                                                      in O Scale awhile back, I'll see if I saved the pic.
                                                                                      Thanks
                                                                                      Chuck aka gramps
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 947 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/15/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re-Re-Winton
                                                                                      Well leave it to me, I goofed the picture I had saved wasn't a Winton,
                                                                                      it's a Varney in O scale. The old brain miss fires on occasion.
                                                                                      Chuck
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 948 From: frank Date: 2/15/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Moderator. help
                                                                                      I no longer can control my Album. I can create a new album but can't
                                                                                      edit existing album.
                                                                                      Frank O toptrain
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 949 From: don.dellmann Date: 2/15/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Moderator. help
                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      From: frank <toptrain1@...>
                                                                                      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                      Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 3:14 PM
                                                                                      Subject: [vintageHO] Moderator. help


                                                                                      > I no longer can control my Album. I can create a new album but can't
                                                                                      > edit existing album.
                                                                                      > Frank O toptrain
                                                                                      >

                                                                                      When Yahoo switched to the new photo format that's one of the bugs that
                                                                                      turned up.

                                                                                      You should still be able to add photos, but you can't delete them without
                                                                                      deleting the entire album.

                                                                                      Moderators still can edit individual photos, if you need something deleted
                                                                                      or changed, let me know off list and I should be able to do it for you.

                                                                                      Don

                                                                                      don.dellmann@...
                                                                                      http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                      moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 950 From: kurt youngmann Date: 2/15/2006
                                                                                      Subject: mantua locomotives available
                                                                                      If anyone is interested, I have a number of HO Mantua steam locos I'd
                                                                                      like to sell. They include 2 Pacifics; 2 Mikados; a 2-6-6-2 (with
                                                                                      some bent moving parts); an 0-6-0; and the Atlantic that, for some
                                                                                      reason they lettered for the CNW but painted red and silver.

                                                                                      All have can motors, some have been relettered for my railroad and
                                                                                      some have had Railcommand receivers installed (but they should be
                                                                                      easy to remove).

                                                                                      If interested please contact me privately to discuss prices. I can
                                                                                      submit photos if you'd like.

                                                                                      Thanks,

                                                                                      Kurt Youngmann
                                                                                      SKP Lines
                                                                                      tgobbi@...
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 951 From: Imp Ster Date: 2/15/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Y Groups going thru... "ell".
                                                                                      bugs seem to be turning up all over the Y domain lately.

                                                                                      i cant get a Group to display twice the same way, for days now.
                                                                                      sometimes it will show as usual, then in the very next refresh, the
                                                                                      page will be about 10X wide and you have to scroll the un-wrapped
                                                                                      text header to even see the home pic.
                                                                                      then, of course, all the top messages are screwed up.
                                                                                      if i go to the "Messages" link, i can still see messages in some sort
                                                                                      of order, but this does not bode well for Yahoo.
                                                                                      in a similar maddening vein, 'My Yahoo' email preview wont refresh.
                                                                                      so i got long-deleted mail still showing in my preview for days now.

                                                                                      (note, its not just "my" comp, the same issues affect both my 56k
                                                                                      dial-up on my homes Win98, as well as the DSL WiFi on the XP at work.
                                                                                      so a note to Yahoo, its not 'cache' or 'cookies' or 'Temp files', k? )

                                                                                      in other news, i have rattled the cage of a certain domestic high-
                                                                                      volume die casting facility.
                                                                                      they do mostly larger pieces such as mag wheels, carb bodies and
                                                                                      medical parts, electronic component boxes etc.
                                                                                      their initial response was more bemused than anything else, but they
                                                                                      are far past capable of high-quality die-cast production IN VOLUME,
                                                                                      and IN BRASS no less, but i REFUSE to consider overseas
                                                                                      production, "not that there's anything wrong with that"... BUT.
                                                                                      so it may cost me a few more pence to be a happy pirate, but i'm sure
                                                                                      my loyal constituents (that would be ya'll of Vintage HO, among
                                                                                      others) will help me cover my a** down the line, by supporting my
                                                                                      fine art reproductions.

                                                                                      hence, i will keep Vintage HO posted on results of said cage-
                                                                                      rattling, if any.

                                                                                      ...
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 952 From: frank Date: 2/16/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Moderator. help
                                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "don.dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
                                                                                      wrote
                                                                                      DON: OK, will do that. I'll get some new stuff together
                                                                                      Frank
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      > From: frank <toptrain1@...>
                                                                                      > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                      > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 3:14 PM
                                                                                      > Subject: [vintageHO] Moderator. help
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > > I no longer can control my Album. I can create a new album but
                                                                                      can't
                                                                                      > > edit existing album.
                                                                                      > > Frank O toptrain
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > When Yahoo switched to the new photo format that's one of the bugs
                                                                                      that
                                                                                      > turned up.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > You should still be able to add photos, but you can't delete them
                                                                                      without
                                                                                      > deleting the entire album.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Moderators still can edit individual photos, if you need something
                                                                                      deleted
                                                                                      > or changed, let me know off list and I should be able to do it for
                                                                                      you.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Don
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > don.dellmann@...
                                                                                      > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                      > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      > co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 953 From: Don Riley Date: 2/16/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Y Groups going thru... "ell".
                                                                                      Bummer!! Sure hope it is ok again! I use yahoomail for reading the messages. But I do go to the sites now and then. They seem ok! Hope they work next time!!
                                                                                      Good luck getting someone to make those models!! I look forward to the idea of getting some!!
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Steamengine 4449


                                                                                      Imp Ster <iimpster@...> wrote:
                                                                                      bugs seem to be turning up all over the Y domain lately.

                                                                                      i cant get a Group to display twice the same way, for days now.
                                                                                      sometimes it will show as usual, then in the very next refresh, the
                                                                                      page will be about 10X wide and you have to scroll the un-wrapped
                                                                                      text header to even see the home pic.
                                                                                      then, of course, all the top messages are screwed up.
                                                                                      if i go to the "Messages" link, i can still see messages in some sort
                                                                                      of order, but this does not bode well for Yahoo.
                                                                                      in a similar maddening vein, 'My Yahoo' email preview wont refresh.
                                                                                      so i got long-deleted mail still showing in my preview for days now.

                                                                                      (note, its not just "my" comp, the same issues affect both my 56k
                                                                                      dial-up on my homes Win98, as well as the DSL WiFi on the XP at work.
                                                                                      so a note to Yahoo, its not 'cache' or 'cookies' or 'Temp files', k? )

                                                                                      in other news, i have rattled the cage of a certain domestic high-
                                                                                      volume die casting facility.
                                                                                      they do mostly larger pieces such as mag wheels, carb bodies and
                                                                                      medical parts, electronic component boxes etc.
                                                                                      their initial response was more bemused than anything else, but they
                                                                                      are far past capable of high-quality die-cast production IN VOLUME,
                                                                                      and IN BRASS no less, but i REFUSE to consider overseas
                                                                                      production, "not that there's anything wrong with that"... BUT.
                                                                                      so it may cost me a few more pence to be a happy pirate, but i'm sure
                                                                                      my loyal constituents (that would be ya'll of Vintage HO, among
                                                                                      others) will help me cover my a** down the line, by supporting my
                                                                                      fine art reproductions.

                                                                                      hence, i will keep Vintage HO posted on results of said cage-
                                                                                      rattling, if any.



                                                                                      What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 954 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/17/2006
                                                                                      Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
                                                                                      Hello,

                                                                                      This email message is a notification to let you know that
                                                                                      a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vintageHO
                                                                                      group.

                                                                                      File : /Union_Pacific_4-6-2_wllppr.jpg
                                                                                      Uploaded by : iimpster <iimpster@...>
                                                                                      Description : Pacific 4-6-2 desktop wallpaper art

                                                                                      You can access this file at the URL:
                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/Union_Pacific_4-6-2_wllppr.jpg

                                                                                      To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
                                                                                      http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

                                                                                      Regards,

                                                                                      iimpster <iimpster@...>
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 955 From: Imp Ster Date: 2/17/2006
                                                                                      Subject: A Tale Of Two "F" Units
                                                                                      greets all -

                                                                                      a short (well, maybe not so short) reminisce of a faithful pair of
                                                                                      Athearn F Units (also known as "Funits" in some circles.)

                                                                                      about every other week, but not much lately, i manage to clamber into
                                                                                      the cluttered old school buss that functions as a storage unit and HO
                                                                                      museum piece.
                                                                                      there i ponder the silent and dusty HO-littered "landscape",
                                                                                      consisting of a warren of pine and oak 1" X 10" or 12" planks
                                                                                      scavenged over the years from locations across the continental USA,
                                                                                      from the first oak plank found in Delray, Fla. to the various wooden
                                                                                      remnants found near SLC Utah, and the ancient weathered barn-sidings
                                                                                      from a demolished barn on my dad's ranch in the Black Hills of SD.

                                                                                      since i moved my bunk out of the buss and into the old house, wherein
                                                                                      is also found a 4X8 layout salvaged from a hobby-shop RIP track,
                                                                                      nothing has operated on this buss system in years.
                                                                                      however lately i have begun arranging certain pieces of motive power
                                                                                      on "ready tracks", perhaps in hopes of evoking something...

                                                                                      there are the 6 Trainmasters, all Kadee'd up and tuned to perfection,
                                                                                      hoping for assignment to the heavy fast freights they so richly
                                                                                      deserve.

                                                                                      there are the 2 matched SW-1500's, with a calf along for good luck,
                                                                                      waiting for work on the coffee mine loop.

                                                                                      here are the PA's, A & B, in UP livery waiting for streamliner speed
                                                                                      to blow the dust off those chrome trucks.
                                                                                      (so what if the B needs fly-wheels - it's time will come!)

                                                                                      here slumbers the twin SD's, also in UP and chrome, dreaming of
                                                                                      peddler freight duty.

                                                                                      but this tale is not about them.
                                                                                      it is about first love, a love found, lost, and found again.

                                                                                      when i was 17, it was a very good year... for small town boys in the
                                                                                      big city hobby shops.
                                                                                      fly-wheels were the Next Big Thing that year from Athearn, and so
                                                                                      with abundant glee i plunked down my hard-won allowance pence and
                                                                                      took home the 'Final Solution' to all my traction vs tonnage
                                                                                      problems, that is, the A&B units (with SuperWeights!) in UP livery.

                                                                                      ( i think they were about $28. each... sigh.)

                                                                                      in that long-ago golden era, the Salt Lake County Fairgrounds had
                                                                                      leased a fair sized house to an HO club, which club had taken out all
                                                                                      the interior walls (except for the restroom and a small workroom) and
                                                                                      filled the resultant space with as grand a model empire as any boy
                                                                                      could possibly have concieved in his most fevered dreams.
                                                                                      a turntable longer than a Big Boy, that served, with a blinding fan
                                                                                      of spurs, a roundhouse fit for the HO gods.
                                                                                      a main yard that stretched for, well, yards.
                                                                                      a hidden yard under the benchwork that held trains so long that
                                                                                      broken (KD) couplers (from jack-rabbit starts) were a common
                                                                                      occurance.
                                                                                      a narrow-guage line (HOn3) that wound it's glorious and painstaking
                                                                                      way along, up and over and beyond the standard mains, to end up in a
                                                                                      remote mountain-top wye-village that could only be reached (by
                                                                                      humans) by climbing under, into, and then over the mountains for
                                                                                      several yards.

                                                                                      it was upon such a stage that i, as a mere lad, green as grass, still
                                                                                      soaking wet behind the HO ears, was allowed (albeit somewhat
                                                                                      grudgingly) to parade my new Athearn F's, with the requisite 6-car
                                                                                      Rivarossi UP streamlined collection tuned up with extra weight and KD
                                                                                      wheels.
                                                                                      the occasion was the annual open house, held to co-incide with the
                                                                                      State Fair then in progress.
                                                                                      operators who could go the distance were in short supply, the fair
                                                                                      event was amost 2 solid weeks of preparation and train running, so
                                                                                      the weaklings dropped like flies.
                                                                                      this was my baptism of fire.

                                                                                      and how the F Units ran.
                                                                                      they ran and ran.
                                                                                      but that was only the begining.
                                                                                      when the FairGrounds canceled the lease and the marvelous HO empire
                                                                                      was demolished, the same A&B set made their way around the land in
                                                                                      various and strange ways.

                                                                                      in later years, as my fortunes waxed and waned, the units spent some
                                                                                      time in boxes, or rarely, on display.
                                                                                      fast fwd to 1984 when i aquired the old school buss from an SLC
                                                                                      scrapyard.
                                                                                      after an initial test run up the mountain ( and a rather expensive
                                                                                      tow-truck ride back down), the buss, and its small (at the time)
                                                                                      collection of HO, spent some time in storage, whereupon it was
                                                                                      promptly burglarised in extreemis.
                                                                                      but the F Units survived, safely hidden under a false bottom in a box
                                                                                      of otherwise disposable trinkets.

                                                                                      fast fwd to 1989 and my arrival once again on the East Coast, come
                                                                                      home to reside, there i thought, in relative perpetuity and eventual
                                                                                      demisery within the enfolding arms of the old family estate.

                                                                                      the old buss crawled up into the woods and heaved a sign of relief,
                                                                                      and promptly fell into a deep slumber to rival Rip Van Winkle's own.
                                                                                      and yet within the buss, HO life flickered into being, and glowed and
                                                                                      hummed to itself.
                                                                                      all the fine sturdy planks gathered over the years and often stored
                                                                                      in a most unhappy circumstance, found themselves assembling into a
                                                                                      new and definitive order, never more to wander.
                                                                                      and there the long-neglected F Units found a home at last.

                                                                                      at the peak of the madness, i could go off to my custodial rounds, 20
                                                                                      miles down the road, and leave them running, powered by the classic
                                                                                      MRC Golden Throttlepack, with a full train of 48 cars including the
                                                                                      10 40' Athearn boxcars, the 6 Tyco operating hoppers, the 10 MDC 30'
                                                                                      ores, and others of various and sundry mein...
                                                                                      this was a train that could wear out plastic guardrails and frogs,
                                                                                      whose rumble could be heard even outside the buss, a train that could
                                                                                      drive lesser mortals to weep.
                                                                                      when i watch it again on that ancient grainy analog video, i can only
                                                                                      marvel that such a thing once came to pass.

                                                                                      but alas.
                                                                                      the engines themselves were only mortal.
                                                                                      during a routine servicing, i took note that the axle journals had
                                                                                      begun to deteriorate.
                                                                                      indeed, the flanges on a few of the wheelsets were badly worn, one
                                                                                      hardly left.
                                                                                      the brushes - down to nubbins!
                                                                                      even the poor armatures were deeply grooved upon the long-suffering
                                                                                      commutators.
                                                                                      the end was in sight.
                                                                                      the Terminal Consist beckoned, the RIP track awaited.

                                                                                      but Fate smiled.
                                                                                      and i was drafted into the services of a local HO emporium that could
                                                                                      only have been the life's work of a madman (who happened to be my
                                                                                      neighbor).
                                                                                      there i found every HO spare part that i could possibly need or want
                                                                                      or ever dream of.
                                                                                      and so it came to pass, that the faithful F Units, loyal and true for
                                                                                      decades of semi-continuous duty, finaly found a much needed
                                                                                      rebuilding.

                                                                                      all new wheels, new motor armatures and brushes, fresh couplers.

                                                                                      but Fate can be capricious...
                                                                                      the madmans emporium became an obsession and then a downfall.
                                                                                      today it is no more.
                                                                                      the old reprobate himself came to his end even as he wanted, slumped
                                                                                      in his chair behind the counter, surrounded by his HO wealth, a
                                                                                      treasure trove to put the Crown Jewels to shame.
                                                                                      some few tried to carry on his dream, bu they were not equal to the
                                                                                      task.
                                                                                      and perhaps tis just as well, some dreams can only be held in the
                                                                                      heart of the dreamer, and those few others who come to know that
                                                                                      realm in passing, are thrice blessed.

                                                                                      and now, today.
                                                                                      these F Units stand ready, once again.
                                                                                      empires have come and gone, worlds in chaos, children grown old and
                                                                                      grey and gone to dust.
                                                                                      but the F Units are ready.

                                                                                      oh, there are children of the Lesser Gods, to be sure.
                                                                                      whenever i see a modern Athearn F "effort", i am still tempted to
                                                                                      give them a home, even if they do have 90% styrene plastic trucks.
                                                                                      (could they not even have made them of Delrin? - oh well.)

                                                                                      yet hark, tis midnight, and the Pumpkin Express bekons.

                                                                                      (*yawn*)

                                                                                      zzz

                                                                                      ...
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 956 From: Don Riley Date: 2/18/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: A Tale Of Two "F" Units
                                                                                      Imp,
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Wow!! You have skills!!! I mean you could make money being a writer.
                                                                                      So does that old bus run now? What brand is it?
                                                                                      As unto the F7s. I have F7s from all posbile eras I bet I have two like yours! Indeed AThearn really rules!
                                                                                      BTW what year were your F7s from?
                                                                                      Alos that must be a really nice collection!!!
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Steamengine 4449

                                                                                      Imp Ster <iimpster@...> wrote:
                                                                                      greets all -

                                                                                      a short (well, maybe not so short) reminisce of a faithful pair of
                                                                                      Athearn F Units (also known as "Funits" in some circles.)

                                                                                      about every other week, but not much lately, i manage to clamber into
                                                                                      the cluttered old school buss that functions as a storage unit and HO
                                                                                      museum piece.
                                                                                      there i ponder the silent and dusty HO-littered "landscape",
                                                                                      consisting of a warren of pine and oak 1" X 10" or 12" planks
                                                                                      scavenged over the years from locations across the continental USA,
                                                                                      from the first oak plank found in Delray, Fla. to the various wooden
                                                                                      remnants found near SLC Utah, and the ancient weathered barn-sidings
                                                                                      from a demolished barn on my dad's ranch in the Black Hills of SD.

                                                                                      since i moved my bunk out of the buss and into the old house, wherein
                                                                                      is also found a 4X8 layout salvaged from a hobby-shop RIP track,
                                                                                      nothing has operated on this buss system in years.
                                                                                      however lately i have begun arranging certain pieces of motive power
                                                                                      on "ready tracks", perhaps in hopes of evoking something...

                                                                                      there are the 6 Trainmasters, all Kadee'd up and tuned to perfection,
                                                                                      hoping for assignment to the heavy fast freights they so richly
                                                                                      deserve.

                                                                                      there are the 2 matched SW-1500's, with a calf along for good luck,
                                                                                      waiting for work on the coffee mine loop.

                                                                                      here are the PA's, A & B, in UP livery waiting for streamliner speed
                                                                                      to blow the dust off those chrome trucks.
                                                                                      (so what if the B needs fly-wheels - it's time will come!)

                                                                                      here slumbers the twin SD's, also in UP and chrome, dreaming of
                                                                                      peddler freight duty.

                                                                                      but this tale is not about them.
                                                                                      it is about first love, a love found, lost, and found again.

                                                                                      when i was 17, it was a very good year... for small town boys in the
                                                                                      big city hobby shops.
                                                                                      fly-wheels were the Next Big Thing that year from Athearn, and so
                                                                                      with abundant glee i plunked down my hard-won allowance pence and
                                                                                      took home the 'Final Solution' to all my traction vs tonnage
                                                                                      problems, that is, the A&B units (with SuperWeights!) in UP livery.

                                                                                      ( i think they were about $28. each... sigh.)

                                                                                      in that long-ago golden era, the Salt Lake County Fairgrounds had
                                                                                      leased a fair sized house to an HO club, which club had taken out all
                                                                                      the interior walls (except for the restroom and a small workroom) and
                                                                                      filled the resultant space with as grand a model empire as any boy
                                                                                      could possibly have concieved in his most fevered dreams.
                                                                                      a turntable longer than a Big Boy, that served, with a blinding fan
                                                                                      of spurs, a roundhouse fit for the HO gods.
                                                                                      a main yard that stretched for, well, yards.
                                                                                      a hidden yard under the benchwork that held trains so long that
                                                                                      broken (KD) couplers (from jack-rabbit starts) were a common
                                                                                      occurance.
                                                                                      a narrow-guage line (HOn3) that wound it's glorious and painstaking
                                                                                      way along, up and over and beyond the standard mains, to end up in a
                                                                                      remote mountain-top wye-village that could only be reached (by
                                                                                      humans) by climbing under, into, and then over the mountains for
                                                                                      several yards.

                                                                                      it was upon such a stage that i, as a mere lad, green as grass, still
                                                                                      soaking wet behind the HO ears, was allowed (albeit somewhat
                                                                                      grudgingly) to parade my new Athearn F's, with the requisite 6-car
                                                                                      Rivarossi UP streamlined collection tuned up with extra weight and KD
                                                                                      wheels.
                                                                                      the occasion was the annual open house, held to co-incide with the
                                                                                      State Fair then in progress.
                                                                                      operators who could go the distance were in short supply, the fair
                                                                                      event was amost 2 solid weeks of preparation and train running, so
                                                                                      the weaklings dropped like flies.
                                                                                      this was my baptism of fire.

                                                                                      and how the F Units ran.
                                                                                      they ran and ran.
                                                                                      but that was only the begining.
                                                                                      when the FairGrounds canceled the lease and the marvelous HO empire
                                                                                      was demolished, the same A&B set made their way around the land in
                                                                                      various and strange ways.

                                                                                      in later years, as my fortunes waxed and waned, the units spent some
                                                                                      time in boxes, or rarely, on display.
                                                                                      fast fwd to 1984 when i aquired the old school buss from an SLC
                                                                                      scrapyard.
                                                                                      after an initial test run up the mountain ( and a rather expensive
                                                                                      tow-truck ride back down), the buss, and its small (at the time)
                                                                                      collection of HO, spent some time in storage, whereupon it was
                                                                                      promptly burglarised in extreemis.
                                                                                      but the F Units survived, safely hidden under a false bottom in a box
                                                                                      of otherwise disposable trinkets.

                                                                                      fast fwd to 1989 and my arrival once again on the East Coast, come
                                                                                      home to reside, there i thought, in relative perpetuity and eventual
                                                                                      demisery within the enfolding arms of the old family estate.

                                                                                      the old buss crawled up into the woods and heaved a sign of relief,
                                                                                      and promptly fell into a deep slumber to rival Rip Van Winkle's own.
                                                                                      and yet within the buss, HO life flickered into being, and glowed and
                                                                                      hummed to itself.
                                                                                      all the fine sturdy planks gathered over the years and often stored
                                                                                      in a most unhappy circumstance, found themselves assembling into a
                                                                                      new and definitive order, never more to wander.
                                                                                      and there the long-neglected F Units found a home at last.

                                                                                      at the peak of the madness, i could go off to my custodial rounds, 20
                                                                                      miles down the road, and leave them running, powered by the classic
                                                                                      MRC Golden Throttlepack, with a full train of 48 cars including the
                                                                                      10 40' Athearn boxcars, the 6 Tyco operating hoppers, the 10 MDC 30'
                                                                                      ores, and others of various and sundry mein...
                                                                                      this was a train that could wear out plastic guardrails and frogs,
                                                                                      whose rumble could be heard even outside the buss, a train that could
                                                                                      drive lesser mortals to weep.
                                                                                      when i watch it again on that ancient grainy analog video, i can only
                                                                                      marvel that such a thing once came to pass.

                                                                                      but alas.
                                                                                      the engines themselves were only mortal.
                                                                                      during a routine servicing, i took note that the axle journals had
                                                                                      begun to deteriorate.
                                                                                      indeed, the flanges on a few of the wheelsets were badly worn, one
                                                                                      hardly left.
                                                                                      the brushes - down to nubbins!
                                                                                      even the poor armatures were deeply grooved upon the long-suffering
                                                                                      commutators.
                                                                                      the end was in sight.
                                                                                      the Terminal Consist beckoned, the RIP track awaited.

                                                                                      but Fate smiled.
                                                                                      and i was drafted into the services of a local HO emporium that could
                                                                                      only have been the life's work of a madman (who happened to be my
                                                                                      neighbor).
                                                                                      there i found every HO spare part that i could possibly need or want
                                                                                      or ever dream of.
                                                                                      and so it came to pass, that the faithful F Units, loyal and true for
                                                                                      decades of semi-continuous duty, finaly found a much needed
                                                                                      rebuilding.

                                                                                      all new wheels, new motor armatures and brushes, fresh couplers.

                                                                                      but Fate can be capricious...
                                                                                      the madmans emporium became an obsession and then a downfall.
                                                                                      today it is no more.
                                                                                      the old reprobate himself came to his end even as he wanted, slumped
                                                                                      in his chair behind the counter, surrounded by his HO wealth, a
                                                                                      treasure trove to put the Crown Jewels to shame.
                                                                                      some few tried to carry on his dream, bu they were not equal to the
                                                                                      task.
                                                                                      and perhaps tis just as well, some dreams can only be held in the
                                                                                      heart of the dreamer, and those few others who come to know that
                                                                                      realm in passing, are thrice blessed.

                                                                                      and now, today.
                                                                                      these F Units stand ready, once again.
                                                                                      empires have come and gone, worlds in chaos, children grown old and
                                                                                      grey and gone to dust.
                                                                                      but the F Units are ready.

                                                                                      oh, there are children of the Lesser Gods, to be sure.
                                                                                      whenever i see a modern Athearn F "effort", i am still tempted to
                                                                                      give them a home, even if they do have 90% styrene plastic trucks.
                                                                                      (could they not even have made them of Delrin? - oh well.)

                                                                                      yet hark, tis midnight, and the Pumpkin Express bekons.

                                                                                      (*yawn*)

                                                                                      zzz

                                                                                      ...


                                                                                      Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!

                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 957 From: Glenn Date: 2/19/2006
                                                                                      Subject: new member
                                                                                      Hi--your leader posted on the G&D forum thereby making me aware of this group.  I have a fairly complete collection of Mantua and MDC equipment from the metal era that I occasionally run on the club layout. I have done a couple of clinics for PCR on "Ancient HO" and "Model Railroading in the Bronze Age".  I was born in 1941, and started in HO in about 1948 with Strombecker cars--if I did a good job my Dad would get trucks and couplers for them.  He built several Mantua cars, and first loco was a Varney F3--I now have several sets of these.   Glenn Joesten  Yreka, CA
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 958 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/19/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: new member
                                                                                      Hello Glenn,
                                                                                         I want to welcome you to the group. I was also born in 1941, but my career in this great hobby actually started before I was born. When my Dad found out that my Mom was expecting he went out and bought my first train. I've been in it since then. My love for the hobby has never decreased. I remember the Strombecker models, and many of the cardstock models as well. I'm sure you will bring alot of knowledge to this group, and I look forward to your posts and sharing memories with you.
                                                                                      Chuck aka Gramps

                                                                                      Glenn <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                      Hi--your leader posted on the G&D forum thereby making me aware of this group.  I have a fairly complete collection of Mantua and MDC equipment from the metal era that I occasionally run on the club layout. I have done a couple of clinics for PCR on "Ancient HO" and "Model Railroading in the Bronze Age".  I was born in 1941, and started in HO in about 1948 with Strombecker cars--if I did a good job my Dad would get trucks and couplers for them.  He built several Mantua cars, and first loco was a Varney F3--I now have several sets of these.   Glenn Joesten  Yreka, CA


                                                                                      Brings words and photos together (easily) with
                                                                                      PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.

                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 959 From: Glenn Date: 2/19/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: new member
                                                                                      Well, Chuck--I think we're about even--my mother claims that my dad had a set of trains for me when he picked us up from the hospital--The first trains I remember--some TootsieToy trains, a train my dad made from wooden cheese boxes with checkers for wheels, a Lionel "Paper Train", and a Marx wind-up Army Supply Train that they traded rationed cigarettes for.  got into HO in about 1947-48. 
                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 7:28 AM
                                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] new member

                                                                                      Hello Glenn,
                                                                                         I want to welcome you to the group. I was also born in 1941, but my career in this great hobby actually started before I was born. When my Dad found out that my Mom was expecting he went out and bought my first train. I've been in it since then. My love for the hobby has never decreased. I remember the Strombecker models, and many of the cardstock models as well. I'm sure you will bring alot of knowledge to this group, and I look forward to your posts and sharing memories with you.
                                                                                      Chuck aka Gramps

                                                                                      Glenn <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                      Hi--your leader posted on the G&D forum thereby making me aware of this group.  I have a fairly complete collection of Mantua and MDC equipment from the metal era that I occasionally run on the club layout. I have done a couple of clinics for PCR on "Ancient HO" and "Model Railroading in the Bronze Age".  I was born in 1941, and started in HO in about 1948 with Strombecker cars--if I did a good job my Dad would get trucks and couplers for them.  He built several Mantua cars, and first loco was a Varney F3--I now have several sets of these.   Glenn Joesten  Yreka, CA


                                                                                      Brings words and photos together (easily) with
                                                                                      PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.

                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 960 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/19/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: new member
                                                                                      Glenn, guess our Dads wanted to make sure we started in the right hobby. My first one was a American.Flyer 4-6-4, and I started getting into HO in the early 50's.Still have alot of my S gauge Flyer stuff and like to run some on Christmas to keep the memories alive.
                                                                                      Chuck

                                                                                      Glenn <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                      Well, Chuck--I think we're about even--my mother claims that my dad had a set of trains for me when he picked us up from the hospital--The first trains I remember--some TootsieToy trains, a train my dad made from wooden cheese boxes with checkers for wheels, a Lionel "Paper Train", and a Marx wind-up Army Supply Train that they traded rationed cigarettes for.  got into HO in about 1947-48. 
                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 7:28 AM
                                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] new member

                                                                                      Hello Glenn,
                                                                                         I want to welcome you to the group. I was also born in 1941, but my career in this great hobby actually started before I was born. When my Dad found out that my Mom was expecting he went out and bought my first train. I've been in it since then. My love for the hobby has never decreased. I remember the Strombecker models, and many of the cardstock models as well. I'm sure you will bring alot of knowledge to this group, and I look forward to your posts and sharing memories with you.
                                                                                      Chuck aka Gramps

                                                                                      Glenn <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                      Hi--your leader posted on the G&D forum thereby making me aware of this group.  I have a fairly complete collection of Mantua and MDC equipment from the metal era that I occasionally run on the club layout. I have done a couple of clinics for PCR on "Ancient HO" and "Model Railroading in the Bronze Age".  I was born in 1941, and started in HO in about 1948 with Strombecker cars--if I did a good job my Dad would get trucks and couplers for them.  He built several Mantua cars, and first loco was a Varney F3--I now have several sets of these.   Glenn Joesten  Yreka, CA


                                                                                      Brings words and photos together (easily) with
                                                                                      PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.

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                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 961 From: don.dellmann Date: 2/19/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: new member
                                                                                      Well, to be honest you both have me beat. I was two years old before I got
                                                                                      my first Lionel, in 1949. I think I was about 9 when I got the pair of
                                                                                      Santa Fe F-3's. Wish I had them today.

                                                                                      When I was 12, (1959) sold all the Lionel to a friend of my Dad's, and got
                                                                                      into HO with an Athearn "Hi-Fi" drive F-7 train set, after seeing My
                                                                                      Godfather's Globe F-7's and Varney celluloid passenger cars, been there ever
                                                                                      since.

                                                                                      Don

                                                                                      don.dellmann@...
                                                                                      http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                      moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO

                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      From: Chuck Svihlik <c_t_j_dad@...>
                                                                                      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                      Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 7:30 PM
                                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] new member


                                                                                      > Glenn, guess our Dads wanted to make sure we started in the right hobby.
                                                                                      My first one was a American.Flyer 4-6-4, and I started getting into HO in
                                                                                      the early 50's.Still have alot of my S gauge Flyer stuff and like to run
                                                                                      some on Christmas to keep the memories alive.
                                                                                      > Chuck
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Glenn <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                      > Well, Chuck--I think we're about even--my mother claims that my dad
                                                                                      had a set of trains for me when he picked us up from the hospital--The first
                                                                                      trains I remember--some TootsieToy trains, a train my dad made from wooden
                                                                                      cheese boxes with checkers for wheels, a Lionel "Paper Train", and a Marx
                                                                                      wind-up Army Supply Train that they traded rationed cigarettes for. got
                                                                                      into HO in about 1947-48.
                                                                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      > From: Chuck Svihlik
                                                                                      > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      > Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 7:28 AM
                                                                                      > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] new member
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Hello Glenn,
                                                                                      > I want to welcome you to the group. I was also born in 1941, but my
                                                                                      career in this great hobby actually started before I was born. When my Dad
                                                                                      found out that my Mom was expecting he went out and bought my first train.
                                                                                      I've been in it since then. My love for the hobby has never decreased. I
                                                                                      remember the Strombecker models, and many of the cardstock models as well.
                                                                                      I'm sure you will bring alot of knowledge to this group, and I look forward
                                                                                      to your posts and sharing memories with you.
                                                                                      > Chuck aka Gramps
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Glenn <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                      > Hi--your leader posted on the G&D forum thereby making me aware
                                                                                      of this group. I have a fairly complete collection of Mantua and MDC
                                                                                      equipment from the metal era that I occasionally run on the club layout. I
                                                                                      have done a couple of clinics for PCR on "Ancient HO" and "Model Railroading
                                                                                      in the Bronze Age". I was born in 1941, and started in HO in about 1948
                                                                                      with Strombecker cars--if I did a good job my Dad would get trucks and
                                                                                      couplers for them. He built several Mantua cars, and first loco was a
                                                                                      Varney F3--I now have several sets of these. Glenn Joesten Yreka, CA
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > ---------------------------------
                                                                                      > Brings words and photos together (easily) with
                                                                                      > PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.
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                                                                                      scale model train Ho scale trains N scale trains
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > ---------------------------------
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                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Visit your group "vintageHO" on the web.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                      > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
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                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 962 From: Glenn Date: 2/19/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: new member
                                                                                      I left HO in 1959--about the time I graduated from high school--combination of that was about the low point--everything was going to train sets and RTR, and I was getting interested in traction--and O Sclae had so much more available in it--By the time I had graduatd from college and been drafted, I was getting into O Scale steam--thoroughly reinforced by John Armstrong and Ted Stepek as mentors while operating with them.  Moved to Monterey in 1972--became a member of the G&D crew for the last year.  After John's passing, one of the meeting hosts was building an On3 layout and I got hooked on narrow gauge--where I've been ever since for serious modeling. Have been collecting Mantua and MDC as my main HO focus--also OO Scale, which lost out to HO after the War.
                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 12:46 PM
                                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] new member

                                                                                      Well, to be honest you both have me beat.  I was two years old before I got
                                                                                      my first Lionel, in 1949.  I think I was about 9 when I got the pair of
                                                                                      Santa Fe F-3's.  Wish I had them today.

                                                                                      When I was 12, (1959) sold all the Lionel to a friend of my Dad's, and got
                                                                                      into HO with an Athearn "Hi-Fi" drive F-7 train set, after seeing My
                                                                                      Godfather's Globe F-7's and Varney celluloid passenger cars, been there ever
                                                                                      since.

                                                                                      Don

                                                                                      don.dellmann@...
                                                                                      http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                      moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO

                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      From: Chuck Svihlik <c_t_j_dad@...>
                                                                                      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                      Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 7:30 PM
                                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] new member


                                                                                      > Glenn, guess our Dads wanted to make sure we started in the right hobby.
                                                                                      My first one was a American.Flyer 4-6-4, and I started getting into HO in
                                                                                      the early 50's.Still have alot of my S gauge Flyer stuff and like to run
                                                                                      some on Christmas to keep the memories alive.
                                                                                      >   Chuck
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Glenn <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                      >       Well, Chuck--I think we're about even--my mother claims that my dad
                                                                                      had a set of trains for me when he picked us up from the hospital--The first
                                                                                      trains I remember--some TootsieToy trains, a train my dad made from wooden
                                                                                      cheese boxes with checkers for wheels, a Lionel "Paper Train", and a Marx
                                                                                      wind-up Army Supply Train that they traded rationed cigarettes for.  got
                                                                                      into HO in about 1947-48.
                                                                                      >     ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      >   From: Chuck Svihlik
                                                                                      >   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      >   Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 7:28 AM
                                                                                      >   Subject: Re: [vintageHO] new member
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >   Hello Glenn,
                                                                                      >      I want to welcome you to the group. I was also born in 1941, but my
                                                                                      career in this great hobby actually started before I was born. When my Dad
                                                                                      found out that my Mom was expecting he went out and bought my first train.
                                                                                      I've been in it since then. My love for the hobby has never decreased. I
                                                                                      remember the Strombecker models, and many of the cardstock models as well.
                                                                                      I'm sure you will bring alot of knowledge to this group, and I look forward
                                                                                      to your posts and sharing memories with you.
                                                                                      >   Chuck aka Gramps
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Glenn <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                      >           Hi--your leader posted on the G&D forum thereby making me aware
                                                                                      of this group.  I have a fairly complete collection of Mantua and MDC
                                                                                      equipment from the metal era that I occasionally run on the club layout. I
                                                                                      have done a couple of clinics for PCR on "Ancient HO" and "Model Railroading
                                                                                      in the Bronze Age".  I was born in 1941, and started in HO in about 1948
                                                                                      with Strombecker cars--if I did a good job my Dad would get trucks and
                                                                                      couplers for them.  He built several Mantua cars, and first loco was a
                                                                                      Varney F3--I now have several sets of these.   Glenn Joesten  Yreka, CA
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > ---------------------------------
                                                                                      >   Brings words and photos together (easily) with
                                                                                      > PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >   SPONSORED LINKS
                                                                                      >         G scale train   Ho scale model train   Model train n scale     G
                                                                                      scale model train   Ho scale trains   N scale trains
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > ---------------------------------
                                                                                      >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >     Visit your group "vintageHO" on the web.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                      >  vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > ---------------------------------
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > __________________________________________________
                                                                                      > Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                      > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                                                      > http://mail.yahoo.com

                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 963 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/19/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: new member
                                                                                      WOW !!!
                                                                                           Those are some big names, I;ve only been able to read about these guys. I joined the GandD group because John Allen was my reason for going into HO. I always dreamed about a layout like he had, and still am in aw at the photos of the great G&D.
                                                                                      I've learned alot from John Armstrong from his articles in the model magazines and his books. I feel you have alot of knowledge and experience to bring to this group, and I'm really glad  you joined, I look forward to reading your posts.
                                                                                      Chuck aka gramps

                                                                                      Glenn <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                      I left HO in 1959--about the time I graduated from high school--combination of that was about the low point--everything was going to train sets and RTR, and I was getting interested in traction--and O Sclae had so much more available in it--By the time I had graduatd from college and been drafted, I was getting into O Scale steam--thoroughly reinforced by John Armstrong and Ted Stepek as mentors while operating with them.  Moved to Monterey in 1972--became a member of the G&D crew for the last year.  After John's passing, one of the meeting hosts was building an On3 layout and I got hooked on narrow gauge--where I've been ever since for serious modeling. Have been collecting Mantua and MDC as my main HO focus--also OO Scale, which lost out to HO after the War.
                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 12:46 PM
                                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] new member

                                                                                      Well, to be honest you both have me beat.  I was two years old before I got
                                                                                      my first Lionel, in 1949.  I think I was about 9 when I got the pair of
                                                                                      Santa Fe F-3's.  Wish I had them today.

                                                                                      When I was 12, (1959) sold all the Lionel to a friend of my Dad's, and got
                                                                                      into HO with an Athearn "Hi-Fi" drive F-7 train set, after seeing My
                                                                                      Godfather's Globe F-7's and Varney celluloid passenger cars, been there ever
                                                                                      since.

                                                                                      Don

                                                                                      don.dellmann@...
                                                                                      http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                      moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO

                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      From: Chuck Svihlik <c_t_j_dad@...>
                                                                                      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                      Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 7:30 PM
                                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] new member


                                                                                      > Glenn, guess our Dads wanted to make sure we started in the right hobby.
                                                                                      My first one was a American.Flyer 4-6-4, and I started getting into HO in
                                                                                      the early 50's.Still have alot of my S gauge Flyer stuff and like to run
                                                                                      some on Christmas to keep the memories alive.
                                                                                      >   Chuck
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Glenn <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                      >       Well, Chuck--I think we're about even--my mother claims that my dad
                                                                                      had a set of trains for me when he picked us up from the hospital--The first
                                                                                      trains I remember--some TootsieToy trains, a train my dad made from wooden
                                                                                      cheese boxes with checkers for wheels, a Lionel "Paper Train", and a Marx
                                                                                      wind-up Army Supply Train that they traded rationed cigarettes for.  got
                                                                                      into HO in about 1947-48.
                                                                                      >     ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      >   From: Chuck Svihlik
                                                                                      >   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      >   Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 7:28 AM
                                                                                      >   Subject: Re: [vintageHO] new member
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >   Hello Glenn,
                                                                                      >      I want to welcome you to the group. I was also born in 1941, but my
                                                                                      career in this great hobby actually started before I was born. When my Dad
                                                                                      found out that my Mom was expecting he went out and bought my first train.
                                                                                      I've been in it since then. My love for the hobby has never decreased. I
                                                                                      remember the Strombecker models, and many of the cardstock models as well.
                                                                                      I'm sure you will bring alot of knowledge to this group, and I look forward
                                                                                      to your posts and sharing memories with you.
                                                                                      >   Chuck aka Gramps
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Glenn <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                      >           Hi--your leader posted on the G&D forum thereby making me aware
                                                                                      of this group.  I have a fairly complete collection of Mantua and MDC
                                                                                      equipment from the metal era that I occasionally run on the club layout. I
                                                                                      have done a couple of clinics for PCR on "Ancient HO" and "Model Railroading
                                                                                      in the Bronze Age".  I was born in 1941, and started in HO in about 1948
                                                                                      with Strombecker cars--if I did a good job my Dad would get trucks and
                                                                                      couplers for them.  He built several Mantua cars, and first loco was a
                                                                                      Varney F3--I now have several sets of these.   Glenn Joesten  Yreka, CA
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
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                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 964 From: frank Date: 2/19/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Something to read. A new link. My Trains
                                                                                      I placed a new link. It is my train journal. Now it has only 4 pages.
                                                                                      More will be added. aol journals start from last page added. So scroll
                                                                                      down to page 1 and start there. I hope you enjoy it.
                                                                                      Frank O
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 965 From: Imp Ster Date: 2/19/2006
                                                                                      Subject: RXR - Look Out For The Trains!! ( ..on imp's webcam)
                                                                                      Sunday evening - an exclusive invitation to Vintage HO members, the
                                                                                      trains are running now and will be until (at least) midnite EST, go
                                                                                      find Yahoo IM and see my "iimpster" webcam.

                                                                                      (note, do NOT clik on any links or the lame ads showing in the webcam
                                                                                      frame - that garbage is why its a Yahoo freebie, after all.. grrr)

                                                                                      i am warming up a pair of classic geared Athearn FP-45's (by reverse
                                                                                      running train counter-clockwise) and will be starting proper clockwise
                                                                                      traffic momentarily.
                                                                                      (yes they have chrome trucks!)

                                                                                      if this cheapo webcam can handle it, look for regular webcast
                                                                                      operations of the office 4x8, on a nightly basis, along with occasional
                                                                                      Repair_In_Place action.

                                                                                      cheers

                                                                                      ...
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 966 From: erieberk Date: 2/20/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: new member
                                                                                      Hi Glenn, I too would like to welcome you to the group and look
                                                                                      forward to your contributions on this site. With as many responses
                                                                                      your post has gotten, its almost like a chat room lately, although a
                                                                                      bit delayed. I sure remember those StromBecker kits in the '40's; if
                                                                                      memory serves they (the car kits) were probably about 25 cents or
                                                                                      less. I remember the Comet Models being 35 cents and they were
                                                                                      more "expensive" at the time. When carefully built and pre-painted
                                                                                      before you put the cardboard sides on, they were fairly presentable. I
                                                                                      really didn't get into HO until the early '50's, even though I was born
                                                                                      in 1939. My brother and I each got a freight set of clock-work (wind-
                                                                                      up) Marx trains in 1943; the previous year I "borrowed" my brother's
                                                                                      Marx passenger train and "broke it in" outside in the sand box (lol).
                                                                                      In '48, I got a set of American Flyer with a Pacific which was added to
                                                                                      over the years (wish I still had them). My first Varney engine was the
                                                                                      diesel switcher which went for $19.75. I used to drool over the Bowser
                                                                                      Challenger offered in MR, but as a kid, I couldn't afford it. I have
                                                                                      complete and almost-complete collections of most manufacturers from
                                                                                      back in those days, as I enjoy collecting as much as I do operating,
                                                                                      although my collection of early Manuta cars are a little sparse. Great
                                                                                      to see you have a fair amount of them. Been collecting the older stuff
                                                                                      ('30's, '40's & '50's) since the '60's, so I've been able to get quite
                                                                                      a bit in 40+ years. I enjoy talking vintage trains anytime, so keep us
                                                                                      posted -- there's so much great stuff that was made back then.
                                                                                      Regards, Ray
                                                                                      \
                                                                                      PS: Got to agree with everyone on John Allen's layout; a Classic that
                                                                                      was absolutely awesome and hard to beat 'till this day.
                                                                                      \ --
                                                                                      - In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Hi--your leader posted on the G&D forum thereby making me aware of
                                                                                      this group. I have a fairly complete collection of Mantua and MDC
                                                                                      equipment from the metal era that I occasionally run on the club
                                                                                      layout. I have done a couple of clinics for PCR on "Ancient HO"
                                                                                      and "Model Railroading in the Bronze Age". I was born in 1941, and
                                                                                      started in HO in about 1948 with Strombecker cars--if I did a good job
                                                                                      my Dad would get trucks and couplers for them. He built several Mantua
                                                                                      cars, and first loco was a Varney F3--I now have several sets of
                                                                                      these. Glenn Joesten Yreka, CA
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 967 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/20/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Something to read. A new link. My Trains
                                                                                      Frank,
                                                                                        Great journal, I really like the Hayes Camel back heck of a nice job bud. I agree with you, trains were made to be played with, and when I look at mine they bring back great memories of the fun I had and still have playing with them. once again you have a great journal and I will be visiting often.
                                                                                      Chuck aka Gramps

                                                                                      frank <toptrain1@...> wrote:
                                                                                      I placed a new link. It is my train journal. Now it has only 4 pages.
                                                                                      More will be added. aol journals start from last page added. So scroll
                                                                                      down to page 1 and start there. I hope you enjoy it.
                                                                                                      Frank O





                                                                                      Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on new and used cars.

                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 968 From: Douglas Krahn Date: 2/20/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: RXR - Look Out For The Trains!! ( ..on imp's webcam)
                                                                                      Sorry, but I need a little help finding the webcam.
                                                                                      Please direct me as to how I can see the webcam.

                                                                                      Doug


                                                                                      --- Imp Ster <iimpster@...> wrote:

                                                                                      > Sunday evening - an exclusive invitation to Vintage
                                                                                      > HO members, the
                                                                                      > trains are running now and will be until (at least)
                                                                                      > midnite EST, go
                                                                                      > find Yahoo IM and see my "iimpster" webcam.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 969 From: Glenn Date: 2/20/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: new member
                                                                                      When I was preparing for the "Ancient HO" clinic for PCR in 1994 I managed to draw several unbuilt Mantua kits out of the woodwork.  I also picked up an untouched kit for an MDC 0-6-0 that positively dates form 1948---by the ads in MR they moved in mid-year--and the box label has one address, the instruction sheet another. Cab on this one is five separate pieces, to be screwed together.  Where were our super adhesives when we really needed them? 
                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      From: erieberk
                                                                                      Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 8:28 AM
                                                                                      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: new member

                                                                                      Hi Glenn,  I too would like to welcome you to the group and look
                                                                                      forward to your contributions on this site.  With as many responses
                                                                                      your post has gotten, its almost like a chat room lately, although a
                                                                                      bit delayed.  I sure remember those StromBecker kits in the '40's; if
                                                                                      memory serves they (the car kits) were probably about 25 cents or
                                                                                      less.  I remember the Comet Models being 35 cents and they were
                                                                                      more "expensive" at the time.  When carefully built and pre-painted
                                                                                      before you put the cardboard sides on, they were fairly presentable.  I
                                                                                      really didn't get into HO until the early '50's, even though I was born
                                                                                      in 1939.  My brother and I each got a freight set of clock-work (wind-
                                                                                      up) Marx trains in 1943; the previous year I "borrowed" my brother's
                                                                                      Marx passenger train and "broke it in" outside in the sand box (lol). 
                                                                                      In '48, I got a set of American Flyer with a Pacific which was added to
                                                                                      over the years (wish I still had them).  My first Varney engine was the
                                                                                      diesel switcher which went for $19.75.  I used to drool over the Bowser
                                                                                      Challenger offered in MR, but as a kid, I couldn't afford it.  I have
                                                                                      complete and almost-complete collections of most manufacturers from
                                                                                      back in those days, as I enjoy collecting as much as I do operating,
                                                                                      although my collection of early Manuta cars are a little sparse.  Great
                                                                                      to see you have a fair amount of them.  Been collecting the older stuff
                                                                                      ('30's, '40's & '50's) since the '60's, so I've been able to get quite
                                                                                      a bit in 40+ years.  I enjoy talking vintage trains anytime, so keep us
                                                                                      posted -- there's so much great stuff that was made back then. 
                                                                                      Regards,  Ray                                                         
                                                                                      \                                                                    
                                                                                      PS:  Got to agree with everyone on John Allen's layout; a Classic that
                                                                                      was absolutely awesome and hard to beat 'till this day.
                                                                                      \                                                                     --
                                                                                      - In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Hi--your leader posted on the G&D forum thereby making me aware of
                                                                                      this group.  I have a fairly complete collection of Mantua and MDC
                                                                                      equipment from the metal era that I occasionally run on the club
                                                                                      layout. I have done a couple of clinics for PCR on "Ancient HO"
                                                                                      and "Model Railroading in the Bronze Age".  I was born in 1941, and
                                                                                      started in HO in about 1948 with Strombecker cars--if I did a good job
                                                                                      my Dad would get trucks and couplers for them.  He built several Mantua
                                                                                      cars, and first loco was a Varney F3--I now have several sets of
                                                                                      these.   Glenn Joesten  Yreka, CA
                                                                                      >




                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 970 From: Rick Jones Date: 2/20/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: new member
                                                                                      don.dellmann wrote:
                                                                                      > Well, to be honest you both have me beat. I was two years old before I got
                                                                                      > my first Lionel, in 1949. I think I was about 9 when I got the pair of
                                                                                      > Santa Fe F-3's. Wish I had them today.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > When I was 12, (1959) sold all the Lionel to a friend of my Dad's, and got
                                                                                      > into HO with an Athearn "Hi-Fi" drive F-7 train set, after seeing My
                                                                                      > Godfather's Globe F-7's and Varney celluloid passenger cars, been there ever
                                                                                      > since.

                                                                                      I still have my Lionel trains that I had through most of my
                                                                                      childhood. I've dragged them with me everywhere I've moved. Couldn't
                                                                                      bear to part with them after I switched to HO around 13 years old.
                                                                                      For a long time I thought that I had a different Lionel set prior to
                                                                                      this one. After seeing some old Marx switches at a sale I've realized
                                                                                      that it was a Marx set that was my first train set. I have no idea which
                                                                                      one it was since I can only remember those switches.

                                                                                      --

                                                                                      Rick Jones

                                                                                      The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad
                                                                                      http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/

                                                                                      If cats always land on their feet, and the bread always falls
                                                                                      butter side down, what happens if you attach a piece of buttered
                                                                                      bread to the back of a cat and drop it?
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 971 From: Jerald A Brush Date: 2/20/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Another 1941 lurker
                                                                                      Hello to the Group!
                                                                                      I just joined a few days ago, after hearing about the group on the
                                                                                      GD list. I have been reading the posts with much interest, and
                                                                                      although I am mostly a lurker, I thought I would mention that I was
                                                                                      also delivered in 1941. First electric train was a Lionel O27 set in
                                                                                      1946; I did not get into HO until about 1953, when I crudely built a
                                                                                      gondola car from an article in MR Magazine.

                                                                                      I remember the Strombecker Line of wooden models. I recall putting
                                                                                      together a small steam loco, which was O Scale....Then I built the
                                                                                      Rock Island Rocket, which had a loco and three passenger cars. I
                                                                                      believe the Strombecker HO models were 1/8 inch scale, so they were a
                                                                                      bit smaller than true HO (3.5mm scale).

                                                                                      I don't remember the price for the O gauge kit, but the Rocket set was
                                                                                      about 3-4 dollars, and I recall what a crude paint job I applied.

                                                                                      Seems to me that the HO freight cars were 40 cents each according to
                                                                                      ad in MR.

                                                                                      I parted company with my HO stuff when I got interested in N scale,
                                                                                      so now I am looking into HO again. At this many birthdays, it is
                                                                                      hard to fully appreciate N Scale.

                                                                                      Well enough rambling from me: I'll crawl back under the table and be
                                                                                      quiet.


                                                                                      Thanks for this group! It is really interesting to an old grandpa in
                                                                                      FL. Jerry.
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 972 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/20/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Another 1941 lurker
                                                                                      Hey Jerald, Welcome buddy, I for one was a lurker on some other groups and then I found this one and a few others and I'm having a great time. This group is great and I'm sure many of us can relate to your experiences. I'm one of the 1941 babies and I look forward to sharing ideas and memories with you.
                                                                                      Chuck aka Gramps

                                                                                      Jerald A Brush <jabru@...> wrote:
                                                                                      Hello to the Group!
                                                                                        I just joined a few days ago, after hearing about the group on the
                                                                                      GD list.   I have been reading the posts with much interest, and
                                                                                      although I am mostly a lurker,  I thought I would mention that I was
                                                                                      also delivered in 1941.   First electric train was a Lionel O27 set in
                                                                                      1946;   I did not get into HO until about 1953, when I crudely built a
                                                                                      gondola car from an article in MR Magazine.  

                                                                                      I remember the Strombecker Line of wooden models.   I recall putting
                                                                                      together a small steam loco, which was O Scale....Then I built the
                                                                                      Rock Island Rocket, which had a loco and three passenger cars.  I
                                                                                      believe the Strombecker HO models were 1/8 inch scale, so they were a
                                                                                      bit smaller than true HO (3.5mm scale). 

                                                                                      I don't remember the price for the O gauge kit, but the Rocket set was
                                                                                      about 3-4 dollars, and I recall what a crude paint job I applied.

                                                                                      Seems to me that the HO freight cars were 40 cents each according to
                                                                                      ad in MR.

                                                                                      I  parted company with my HO stuff when I got interested in N scale,
                                                                                      so now I am looking into HO again.    At this many birthdays, it is
                                                                                      hard to fully appreciate N Scale.

                                                                                      Well enough rambling from me: I'll crawl back under the table and be
                                                                                      quiet.


                                                                                      Thanks for this group!  It is really interesting to an old grandpa in
                                                                                      FL.  Jerry.








                                                                                      Yahoo! Mail
                                                                                      Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.

                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 973 From: Glenn Date: 2/20/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Another 1941 lurker
                                                                                      I recall the RI Rocket--was $1.50 in late "40s--it was a low-profile train--there was a dip in the rear of the roof of the EMD model TA loco--They followed iwth a City of SF/B&O Columbian with an E7 loco and 3 cars--extra B uints and cars were available, windows die cut rather than printed as the Rocket--Actually got trucks for my train--ran with a Varney F3.
                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 4:24 PM
                                                                                      Subject: [vintageHO] Another 1941 lurker

                                                                                      Hello to the Group!
                                                                                        I just joined a few days ago, after hearing about the group on the
                                                                                      GD list.   I have been reading the posts with much interest, and
                                                                                      although I am mostly a lurker,  I thought I would mention that I was
                                                                                      also delivered in 1941.   First electric train was a Lionel O27 set in
                                                                                      1946;   I did not get into HO until about 1953, when I crudely built a
                                                                                      gondola car from an article in MR Magazine.  

                                                                                      I remember the Strombecker Line of wooden models.   I recall putting
                                                                                      together a small steam loco, which was O Scale....Then I built the
                                                                                      Rock Island Rocket, which had a loco and three passenger cars.  I
                                                                                      believe the Strombecker HO models were 1/8 inch scale, so they were a
                                                                                      bit smaller than true HO (3.5mm scale). 

                                                                                      I don't remember the price for the O gauge kit, but the Rocket set was
                                                                                      about 3-4 dollars, and I recall what a crude paint job I applied.

                                                                                      Seems to me that the HO freight cars were 40 cents each according to
                                                                                      ad in MR.

                                                                                      I  parted company with my HO stuff when I got interested in N scale,
                                                                                      so now I am looking into HO again.    At this many birthdays, it is
                                                                                      hard to fully appreciate N Scale.

                                                                                      Well enough rambling from me: I'll crawl back under the table and be
                                                                                      quiet.


                                                                                      Thanks for this group!  It is really interesting to an old grandpa in
                                                                                      FL.  Jerry.






                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 974 From: ckinzer@fix.net Date: 2/20/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Another 1941 lurker
                                                                                      Well, I arrived in 1947 but my brother arrived in 1940 so some trains
                                                                                      were already waiting for me. Lionel 726 berkshire, Santa Fe F3's,
                                                                                      #2332 GG1, and some more. Our family didn't have much money (one of
                                                                                      the few families in town that couldn't afford a car and probably the
                                                                                      last to get a TV) and these were pretty big expenditures. My dad had
                                                                                      bought the 726 and GG1 and some cars used at a hardware store. They
                                                                                      used to carry trains at the time. For Christmas, and occasionally at
                                                                                      other times, he would arrive home from work with something like a 6464
                                                                                      series box car (State of Maine, Rutland, B&O Timesaver, etc.) Lionel
                                                                                      knew how to make a catalog and when I look at one today there is STILL
                                                                                      the desire to get half the stuff in it.

                                                                                      My brother never took to the trains much, but I sure did! I set up the
                                                                                      trains on the dining room carpet every Christmas and tried to avoid
                                                                                      putting them away as long as I could. Usually my parents would
                                                                                      tolerate walking over the track all day and night until about March!

                                                                                      Eventually I got interested in HO because we had a terrific local model
                                                                                      railroad hobby shop ("Realistic Models" in Oak Park, Illinois) and I
                                                                                      also discovered Model Railroader magazine. I got an Athearn HI-F drive
                                                                                      Wabash GP7 somehow. But I was too young to understand AC and DC
                                                                                      current. And while I had the engine, I had no track. So I figured I
                                                                                      could try it between one of the outer rails of Lionel track and the
                                                                                      inner third rail because the gauge almost fit. Of course, it just sat
                                                                                      there and buzzed. (Eventually I went into electrical engineering - so
                                                                                      I eventually figured out why it just buzzed. And maybe that curiosity
                                                                                      pushed me toward that endeavor.)

                                                                                      In teen years I became a fairly good HO modeler by making enough
                                                                                      mistakes. I put together Silver Streak cars, a Laconia car with the
                                                                                      foil siding, and many others. I put together some Walthers heavyweight
                                                                                      cars which, in my opinion, was a right of passage back then. I put
                                                                                      together a Mantua Mikado. But I was sort of interested in the PRR
                                                                                      steam turbine (for reasons that escape me) and I converted it to have
                                                                                      the turbine on each side and no cylinders.

                                                                                      I put together an Ambroid Pennsylvania reefer with all the little
                                                                                      pieces of side bracing and by that time I pretty well knew what I was
                                                                                      doing. And then I built a LaBelle coach. Very nice kit.

                                                                                      I didn't have much in the way of tools. Like everyone else, I dreamed
                                                                                      of having a Unimat but the price was way too high. One Christmas I got
                                                                                      my wish for a Dremel tool. That was a real luxury to me (and expensive
                                                                                      for our family to buy). Boy did I use it a lot and also as a crude
                                                                                      lathe. I still have it. And because the hobby shop guy used a Miller
                                                                                      compressor, I wanted one and he gave me a real good price. I did some
                                                                                      brass detailing on a friend's shay and he gave me a used Wold A2
                                                                                      airbrush for the work I did.

                                                                                      I also got into the electronics a bit and, from scratch, made the
                                                                                      TAT-IV ("True Action Throttle) from the Linn Westcott article as I
                                                                                      recall. I would pedal my bike down to Allied Radio on Western Avenue
                                                                                      to get the parts. It actually worked! Momentum and braking was a
                                                                                      rather revolutionary thing at the time.

                                                                                      I still do HO modeling, still do 3-rail, and also do a little building
                                                                                      of cars in the 1" live steam scale. I'm mulling over a powered project
                                                                                      in either 1" or 1 1/2" scale. But I prefer oddball things. Perhaps a
                                                                                      MA & PA consolidation, but electrically powered instead of steam (that
                                                                                      would annoy the purists and add some fun). Or perhaps CTA 4000 series
                                                                                      EL cars that I rode all the time as a kid. Got 'em in HO and O scale,
                                                                                      which not riding scale?

                                                                                      I met lots of interesting folks back in the 60's. One of them had a
                                                                                      beautiful On3 layout our informal club visited. The fellow was a
                                                                                      chemical engineer at Argonne National Laboratory. He completed
                                                                                      colored, and weathered, his brass engines with chemicals. They looked
                                                                                      fantastic. One of the more experienced modelers with us warned us it
                                                                                      was dangerous to look at fine On3 layout. Because "you will want to go
                                                                                      home and take an axe to your HO layout and start over in On3". I
                                                                                      laughed at that - until I saw that layout.

                                                                                      I recently bought some mint Mantua kits of the Mikado and Pacific. New
                                                                                      enough to have plastic cabs, but still metal tender - like I had put
                                                                                      together before. I'm thinking of assembling them for old times sake.
                                                                                      And also a Varney Berkshire. Early on as a kid I had wanted the Varney
                                                                                      Berkshire real bad, but I believe they cost around fifty dollars. Out
                                                                                      of the question. I think the appealing photograph that Varney used in
                                                                                      the advertising had a lot to do with it. It just looked massive and
                                                                                      powerful.

                                                                                      Well, that's probably more than you want to know. But I can go on for
                                                                                      many more pages.

                                                                                      Chuck Kinzer

                                                                                      > Hello to the Group!
                                                                                      > I just joined a few days ago, after hearing about the group on the
                                                                                      > GD list. I have been reading the posts with much interest, and
                                                                                      > although I am mostly a lurker, I thought I would mention that I was
                                                                                      > also delivered in 1941. First electric train was a Lionel O27 set
                                                                                      > in
                                                                                      > 1946; I did not get into HO until about 1953, when I crudely built
                                                                                      > a
                                                                                      > gondola car from an article in MR Magazine.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > I remember the Strombecker Line of wooden models. I recall putting
                                                                                      > together a small steam loco, which was O Scale....Then I built the
                                                                                      > Rock Island Rocket, which had a loco and three passenger cars. I
                                                                                      > believe the Strombecker HO models were 1/8 inch scale, so they were a
                                                                                      > bit smaller than true HO (3.5mm scale).
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > I don't remember the price for the O gauge kit, but the Rocket set
                                                                                      > was
                                                                                      > about 3-4 dollars, and I recall what a crude paint job I applied.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Seems to me that the HO freight cars were 40 cents each according to
                                                                                      > ad in MR.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > I parted company with my HO stuff when I got interested in N scale,
                                                                                      > so now I am looking into HO again. At this many birthdays, it is
                                                                                      > hard to fully appreciate N Scale.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Well enough rambling from me: I'll crawl back under the table and be
                                                                                      > quiet.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Thanks for this group! It is really interesting to an old grandpa in
                                                                                      > FL. Jerry.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > SPONSORED LINKS
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > G scale train[1] Ho scale model train[2] Model train n
                                                                                      > scale[3]
                                                                                      > G scale model train[4] Ho scale trains[5] N scale trains[6]
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > -------------------------
                                                                                      > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > * Visit your group "vintageHO[7]" on the web.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                      > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com[8]
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                      > Service[9].
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > -------------------------
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Links:
                                                                                      > ------
                                                                                      > [1]
                                                                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=G+scale+train&w1=G+scale+train&w2=Ho+scale+model+train&w3=Model+train+n+scale&w4=G+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&w6=N+scale+trains&c=6&s=136&.sig=f19Q3X9pY2AZp3CHkNWYZw
                                                                                      > [2]
                                                                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ho+scale+model+train&w1=G+scale+train&w2=Ho+scale+model+train&w3=Model+train+n+scale&w4=G+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&w6=N+scale+trains&c=6&s=136&.sig=F6asK7Ix0wVnB74PfHYYcg
                                                                                      > [3]
                                                                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Model+train+n+scale&w1=G+scale+train&w2=Ho+scale+model+train&w3=Model+train+n+scale&w4=G+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&w6=N+scale+trains&c=6&s=136&.sig=qBgsM4EoFI8MvQKulYZ_zQ
                                                                                      > [4]
                                                                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=G+scale+model+train&w1=G+scale+train&w2=Ho+scale+model+train&w3=Model+train+n+scale&w4=G+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&w6=N+scale+trains&c=6&s=136&.sig=xeLKBZkBSB-tQWBeD7HRnQ
                                                                                      > [5]
                                                                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ho+scale+trains&w1=G+scale+train&w2=Ho+scale+model+train&w3=Model+train+n+scale&w4=G+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&w6=N+scale+trains&c=6&s=136&.sig=0ybvhtrqTgbqmDcSkOOP1w
                                                                                      > [6]
                                                                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=N+scale+trains&w1=G+scale+train&w2=Ho+scale+model+train&w3=Model+train+n+scale&w4=G+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&w6=N+scale+trains&c=6&s=136&.sig=thUHjhzywK2ZJIYcShcTTQ
                                                                                      > [7] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                      > [8] mailto:vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe
                                                                                      > [9] http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 975 From: Rick Jones Date: 2/21/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Another 1941 lurker
                                                                                      ckinzer@... wrote:
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > I also got into the electronics a bit and, from scratch, made the
                                                                                      > TAT-IV ("True Action Throttle) from the Linn Westcott article as I
                                                                                      > recall. I would pedal my bike down to Allied Radio on Western Avenue
                                                                                      > to get the parts. It actually worked! Momentum and braking was a
                                                                                      > rather revolutionary thing at the time.

                                                                                      This is the one thing that has not yet been implemented in a DCC
                                                                                      throttle (that I know of) that I am wishing for. Yes, you have momentum
                                                                                      effects on acceleration and some similar effects when you turn the
                                                                                      throttle to zero. What I'm dreaming of is the separate brake lever with
                                                                                      Service, Lap, Quick Service, etc. positions so we can really get the
                                                                                      feel of braking a train to a stop on the mark and not overshoot the signal.
                                                                                      There was an article way back in the '60s where someone described
                                                                                      operating on Whit Towers's Alturas & Lone Pine with a transistorized
                                                                                      throttle. He described how he had to work the brake lever just right to
                                                                                      bring his train to a stop at the proper location, without overshooting
                                                                                      the passing siding and drifting onto the main or stopping short and
                                                                                      leaving the caboose hanging out at the opposite end. That's the sort of
                                                                                      operating realism I'm waiting for from DCC.

                                                                                      --

                                                                                      Rick Jones

                                                                                      The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad
                                                                                      http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/

                                                                                      Wouldn't it be nice if whenever we messed up our life we could
                                                                                      simply press 'Ctrl Alt Delete' and start all over?
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 976 From: Imp Ster Date: 2/21/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re, See The Trains!! ( ..besides those on imp's webcam)
                                                                                      greets Doug - you will have to load the Yahoo IM (Instant Messenger)
                                                                                      or Trillian IM application.
                                                                                      then you can view other Yahoo member's webcams.

                                                                                      normally when i am webcasting the train operations, i leave the
                                                                                      webcam open to all viewers, that is, no permission is needed to view.

                                                                                      i am still trying to get my local HO club to consider webcasts of
                                                                                      their weekly operations,
                                                                                      however, until they take the bait, try this link for a 7 minute tour
                                                                                      of their layout via LocoCam.

                                                                                      http://www.scotts-dale-division.net/club/2005-12-10/layout-tour.htm

                                                                                      best on DSL, there is a link for slower dial-up but i cant get it to
                                                                                      load here at home, so got the video from the DSL that i use at work.
                                                                                      i was then able to copy it to a Sony Memory Stick and bring it home
                                                                                      for my archives.
                                                                                      (i'd post it here, but the darn-ting is over 3 megs!)

                                                                                      anyway, to all & sundry, barring unforseen interference, from here on
                                                                                      out, i should be doing regular RXR webcasts each Saturday from early
                                                                                      evening til very late, at least midnite EST.
                                                                                      i use a very cheap cam ( $12 at wally warts) and there is no sound,
                                                                                      but its good for laffs, and as a harbinger of something better.

                                                                                      if there is a certain train (or era) that one might like to see, from
                                                                                      Tea Kettle steamers, to the grumpy old Bowser Northern (complete with
                                                                                      Seuthe smoke), to the AMTRAK "Always Late So We Dont Stop Even For
                                                                                      Paying Customers", to the usual hell-bent-for-rail-gleam GN coffee
                                                                                      train, just send an IM.

                                                                                      cheers

                                                                                      ...

                                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Douglas Krahn <dougkrahn@...> wrote:
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Sorry, but I need a little help finding the webcam.
                                                                                      > Please direct me as to how I can see the webcam.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Doug
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > --- Imp Ster <iimpster@...> wrote:
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > > Sunday evening - an exclusive invitation to Vintage
                                                                                      > > HO members, the
                                                                                      > > trains are running now and will be until (at least)
                                                                                      > > midnite EST, go
                                                                                      > > find Yahoo IM and see my "iimpster" webcam.
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 978 From: busgrouches Date: 2/22/2006
                                                                                      Subject: New Member
                                                                                      I too, was born in the early 40's. (42) I started being interested in
                                                                                      trains at a very early age. I come from a railroad family. All of my
                                                                                      grandfathers on my Dads side worked on the railroad. In fact I am
                                                                                      related to the Weed that Weed, Calf was named after. At least That's
                                                                                      what I've been told. I worked on the railroad in Indianapolis before I
                                                                                      went into the service. I still have my first Lionel train that was
                                                                                      given to me by my Granddad. The metal cars that came with it have
                                                                                      lost a coupler and a wheelset in all of my moves. I'm retired
                                                                                      military. (ARMY)
                                                                                      When I was stationed at Fort Ord, Calif. I met the late John Allen. I
                                                                                      was invited to see his layout. Not having transportation, a friend of
                                                                                      John's came and got me when I was on pass. I also followed the Gorre &
                                                                                      Daphetid, through MR mags, and other publucations after that meeting.
                                                                                      I've been rambling on long enough.
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 979 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/22/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: "when doves cry" ...a tale of 2 trains
                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      From: Imp Ster <iimpster@...>
                                                                                      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                      Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 11:51 PM
                                                                                      Subject: [vintageHO] "when doves cry" ...a tale of 2 trains


                                                                                      > okay, let me put this in perspective.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > every day we look for a certain AMTRAK northbounder.
                                                                                      > ( the notorious # 80 )
                                                                                      > its ALWAYS late, often to the point of tragi-comedic effect among the
                                                                                      > long-suffering weekday regulars who depend on it to get them home
                                                                                      > each evening.

                                                                                      Sad stories, but they ARE "off topic".

                                                                                      Let's keep to the subject of "Vintage HO"

                                                                                      Thanks

                                                                                      Don

                                                                                      don.dellmann@...
                                                                                      http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                      moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 980 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/22/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: New Member
                                                                                      Hello,
                                                                                         Welcome to the group. I'm sure we will all enjoy sharing our past and present experiences with Vintage HO trains. I know from my experience with this group that you will find us friendly and always willing to help. I have asked for help many times and there has always been someone here with the answer.
                                                                                      Gramps

                                                                                      busgrouches <busgrouches@...> wrote:
                                                                                      I too, was born in the early 40's. (42) I started being interested in
                                                                                      trains at a very early age. I come from a railroad family. All of my
                                                                                      grandfathers on my Dads side worked on the railroad. In fact I am
                                                                                      related to the Weed that Weed, Calf was named after. At least That's
                                                                                      what I've been told. I worked on the railroad in Indianapolis before I
                                                                                      went into the service. I still have my first Lionel train that was
                                                                                      given to me by my Granddad.  The metal cars that came with  it have
                                                                                      lost a coupler and a wheelset in all of my moves. I'm retired
                                                                                      military. (ARMY)
                                                                                      When I was stationed at Fort Ord, Calif. I met the late John Allen. I
                                                                                      was invited to see his layout. Not having transportation, a friend of
                                                                                      John's came and got me when I was on pass. I also followed the Gorre &
                                                                                      Daphetid, through MR mags, and other publucations after that meeting.
                                                                                      I've been rambling on long enough.








                                                                                      Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!

                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 981 From: Imp Ster Date: 2/22/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: "when imps cry" ...
                                                                                      yup, sorry Don, i got carried away AGAIN.
                                                                                      i had axed the msg within the hour anyway, but you know the interent
                                                                                      never forgets.

                                                                                      cheers

                                                                                      ...

                                                                                      ---
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Sad stories, but they ARE "off topic".
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Let's keep to the subject of "Vintage HO"
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Thanks
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Don
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 982 From: Donald Dellmann Date: 2/22/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: "when imps cry" ...
                                                                                      No problem. 

                                                                                      Don

                                                                                      Imp Ster <iimpster@...> wrote:
                                                                                      yup, sorry Don, i got carried away AGAIN.
                                                                                      i had axed the msg within the hour anyway, but you know the interent
                                                                                      never forgets.

                                                                                      cheers


                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 983 From: kilbeggan68 Date: 2/22/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Sharknose airhorn
                                                                                      Hi,Does any body know of a source for an air horn for my shark?It is
                                                                                      missing altogether.Have been to several manufacturers sites,but they
                                                                                      all seem to list them by airhorn manufacturers and type.I dont know
                                                                                      type or manu.It is a 2 ended horn,allI know.Any help is appreciated.
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 984 From: Larry Date: 2/24/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Sharknose airhorn
                                                                                      You maybe able to get the part number at the links below:
                                                                                      http://www.hoseeker.net/lit.html
                                                                                      http://www.hoseeker.net/otherhotrains.html
                                                                                      Hope this helps.
                                                                                      Larry
                                                                                      http://www.hoseeker.net/



                                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "kilbeggan68" <wedfrentz@...> wrote:
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Hi,Does any body know of a source for an air horn for my shark?It is
                                                                                      > missing altogether.Have been to several manufacturers sites,but they
                                                                                      > all seem to list them by airhorn manufacturers and type.I dont know
                                                                                      > type or manu.It is a 2 ended horn,allI know.Any help is appreciated.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 985 From: jerrygart5 Date: 2/24/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Sharknose airhorn
                                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "kilbeggan68" <wedfrentz@...> wrote:
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Hi,Does any body know of a source for an air horn for my shark?It is
                                                                                      > missing altogether.Have been to several manufacturers sites,but they
                                                                                      > all seem to list them by airhorn manufacturers and type.I dont know
                                                                                      > type or manu.It is a 2 ended horn,allI know.Any help is appreciated.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      Most Sharks had two single note horns. Pennsy used the two note ones.
                                                                                      For modeling, two note horns are RARE; they are 1,3, or 5 notes.
                                                                                      Probably as close as you can get is a Custom Finishing # 247-221 three
                                                                                      note one (two face forward; one to the rear) ~ simply file off the
                                                                                      rear facing one and install the remaining facing forward.
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 986 From: Glenn Date: 2/24/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Sharknose airhorn
                                                                                      I'm just guessing at this, with no photos to go by, but I suspect that if thisd is the Mantua Shark, they "cheated" in the moldmaking by putting both the forward and rearward horn right on the center line. Kemtron (now PSC) had two single-tone horns--basically an EMD-style with two supports, and an ALCo-style with one bracket back near the base. What you might have is two of these back to back. gj
                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      From: jerrygart5
                                                                                      Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 10:56 AM
                                                                                      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Sharknose airhorn

                                                                                      >
                                                                                        Most Sharks had two single note horns. Pennsy used the two note ones.
                                                                                      For modeling, two note horns are RARE; they are 1,3, or 5 notes. 
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 987 From: wedfrentz@aol.com Date: 2/24/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Sharknose airhorn
                                                                                      Have been to Hoseeker.The air horn is not listed as a separate part.I will scratchbuild  if I have to.Need a good rendition or picture if at all possible.
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 988 From: wedfrentz@aol.com Date: 2/24/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Sharknose airhorn
                                                                                      Hi.When I said 2 ended,I meant 1 forward,1 back.Sorry if this is confusing.It is to me.  Fred
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 989 From: Imp Ster Date: 2/25/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Saturday Night Webcast - RXR ! !
                                                                                      11:11 pm EST and the GN local is operating...

                                                                                      ...
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 990 From: takefive247 Date: 2/26/2006
                                                                                      Subject: New member
                                                                                      Hello all,
                                                                                      New to the group. Reading some of the posts and think I am at a
                                                                                      disadvantage here. I was born in 1940, had a Lionel I shared with my
                                                                                      brother as a kid, (which I still have), and bought my first Mantua
                                                                                      around 1953 or 54. Set up a train around Christmas time, on and off
                                                                                      sense then but never really got into the learning part of modeling, or
                                                                                      trains for that matter, until a few years ago when the Doc said I
                                                                                      should find a hobby. Started collecting Mantua engines, then rolling
                                                                                      stock, then catalogs. Never realized there was so much of it, or so
                                                                                      much I don't know. Set up a shelf line around my home office and now
                                                                                      working on my first real layout. Love the old steam and came here
                                                                                      looking for help making the old Mantua run as good as I think it
                                                                                      should. Hardly tell the difference between a Pacific and an Atlantic
                                                                                      but I'm learning. Hope you guys don't mind an old amateur asking dumb
                                                                                      questions.
                                                                                      Bill
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 991 From: Don Riley Date: 2/26/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: New member
                                                                                      Bill,
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Everyone has to start somewhere!! Welcome aboard!!!
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Steamengine 4449

                                                                                      takefive247 <takefive@...> wrote:
                                                                                      Hello all,
                                                                                      New to the group. Reading some of the posts and think I am at a
                                                                                      disadvantage here. I was born in 1940, had a Lionel I shared with my
                                                                                      brother as a kid, (which I still have), and bought my first Mantua
                                                                                      around 1953 or 54. Set up a train around Christmas time, on and off
                                                                                      sense then but never really got into the learning part of modeling, or
                                                                                      trains for that matter, until a few years ago when the Doc said I
                                                                                      should find a hobby. Started collecting Mantua engines, then rolling
                                                                                      stock, then catalogs. Never realized there was so much of it, or so
                                                                                      much I don't know. Set up a shelf line around my home office and now
                                                                                      working on my first real layout. Love the old steam and came here
                                                                                      looking for help making the old Mantua run as good as I think it
                                                                                      should. Hardly tell the difference between a Pacific and an Atlantic
                                                                                      but I'm learning. Hope you guys don't mind an old amateur asking dumb
                                                                                      questions.
                                                                                      Bill


                                                                                      Brings words and photos together (easily) with
                                                                                      PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.

                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 992 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 2/27/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: New member
                                                                                      Welcome aboard Bill.
                                                                                      No such thing as a dumb question , ask away.

                                                                                      Don Riley <steamengine4449us@...> wrote:
                                                                                      Bill,
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Everyone has to start somewhere!! Welcome aboard!!!
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Steamengine 4449

                                                                                      takefive247 <takefive@...> wrote:
                                                                                      Hello all,
                                                                                      New to the group. Reading some of the posts and think I am at a
                                                                                      disadvantage here. I was born in 1940, had a Lionel I shared with my
                                                                                      brother as a kid, (which I still have), and bought my first Mantua
                                                                                      around 1953 or 54. Set up a train around Christmas time, on and off
                                                                                      sense then but never really got into the learning part of modeling, or
                                                                                      trains for that matter, until a few years ago when the Doc said I
                                                                                      should find a hobby. Started collecting Mantua engines, then rolling
                                                                                      stock, then catalogs. Never realized there was so much of it, or so
                                                                                      much I don't know. Set up a shelf line around my home office and now
                                                                                      working on my first real layout. Love the old steam and came here
                                                                                      looking for help making the old Mantua run as good as I think it
                                                                                      should. Hardly tell the difference between a Pacific and an Atlantic
                                                                                      but I'm learning. Hope you guys don't mind an old amateur asking dumb
                                                                                      questions.
                                                                                      Bill

                                                                                      Brings words and photos together (easily) with
                                                                                      PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.

                                                                                      YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS








                                                                                      Yahoo! Mail
                                                                                      Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.

                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 993 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 2/27/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: New member
                                                                                      Welcome Bill  The only dumb question is the one not asked. If we can help, just ask. I've been at this hobby for as long as I can remember and still have a bunch of questions.
                                                                                      Gramps

                                                                                      Ray Marinaccio <raymarinaccio@...> wrote:
                                                                                      Welcome aboard Bill.
                                                                                      No such thing as a dumb question , ask away.

                                                                                      Don Riley <steamengine4449us@...> wrote:
                                                                                      Bill,
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Everyone has to start somewhere!! Welcome aboard!!!
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Steamengine 4449

                                                                                      takefive247 <takefive@...> wrote:
                                                                                      Hello all,
                                                                                      New to the group. Reading some of the posts and think I am at a
                                                                                      disadvantage here. I was born in 1940, had a Lionel I shared with my
                                                                                      brother as a kid, (which I still have), and bought my first Mantua
                                                                                      around 1953 or 54. Set up a train around Christmas time, on and off
                                                                                      sense then but never really got into the learning part of modeling, or
                                                                                      trains for that matter, until a few years ago when the Doc said I
                                                                                      should find a hobby. Started collecting Mantua engines, then rolling
                                                                                      stock, then catalogs. Never realized there was so much of it, or so
                                                                                      much I don't know. Set up a shelf line around my home office and now
                                                                                      working on my first real layout. Love the old steam and came here
                                                                                      looking for help making the old Mantua run as good as I think it
                                                                                      should. Hardly tell the difference between a Pacific and an Atlantic
                                                                                      but I'm learning. Hope you guys don't mind an old amateur asking dumb
                                                                                      questions.
                                                                                      Bill

                                                                                      Brings words and photos together (easily) with
                                                                                      PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.


                                                                                      Yahoo! Mail
                                                                                      Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.

                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 994 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 2/27/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: New member
                                                                                      Bill,
                                                                                      I think it's great to see people a little later in life return to earlier dreams.  They say "there's no time like now to begin".  Vintage HO is timeless, and the heritage of the early model RR'ers must go on, so why not now? 
                                                                                      While I wasn't around until a few years after you, I also grew up with the enchantment of the vintage trains.  I remember watching my dad run his little John English Yardbird switch engine around his hand-laid 4 X 8 layout in the basement.  He soon became engrossed in running a new business to feed us 6 kids and never finished that layout.  But the dream was still there, unanswered.  He helped me put a double track around my room in that fixed up basement of our house, but never got back into the hobby for himself.  Now he's in his 80's, had a stroke, and couldn't even think about going into the basement.  We're in different states now, but I plan on visiting him again soon and bringing him that original little JE Yardbird loco to help him remember the early dreams he had. 
                                                                                       
                                                                                      I personally think your Doctor was very smart to suggest getting into a hobby.  And you've got a great one!  You've also picked just about the best group out there with "Vintage HO".  The information, pictures, personalities, leadership, and memories are the best anywhere I've been!
                                                                                       
                                                                                      As far as the Mantua locos, I think they are an excellent choice for entering into the vintage-type aspect of the hobby.  Mantua's name has been around in one form or another since the 30's.  You can get a good "feel" for HO steam locos through this line.  I'd suggest picking up a decent referrence book or 2 on steam locos to brush up on your identification of different types.  But other than that, dig in and enjoy!
                                                                                      You mentioned making the Mantua's run better, I've refurbished many of them with the original 5 pole motors and found they can run very nicely.  Or, you can find remotoring for them in many places.  Our website at yardbirdtrains.com offers a couple of excellent kits that will help you, or you can find them from time to time on ebay (the place we all have to look at some time or another).  And yes, our business is named after that little 0-4-0 switcher that my dad had.  See what fond memories will do to you?
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Of course, in this group you will find out all kinds of info on the vintage greats of our hobby such as Varney, Penn Line, Bowser, Aristocraft, Winton, etc., etc. 
                                                                                       
                                                                                      We look forward to hearing from you, and let me say in the response to the last statement you made...  the only "dumb" questions are the ones that don't get asked. 
                                                                                       
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Dan Bush
                                                                                      "Yardy" 
                                                                                       
                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      From: Don Riley
                                                                                      Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 11:21 PM
                                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] New member

                                                                                      Bill,
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Everyone has to start somewhere!! Welcome aboard!!!
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Steamengine 4449

                                                                                      takefive247 <takefive@...> wrote:
                                                                                      Hello all,
                                                                                      New to the group. Reading some of the posts and think I am at a
                                                                                      disadvantage here. I was born in 1940, had a Lionel I shared with my
                                                                                      brother as a kid, (which I still have), and bought my first Mantua
                                                                                      around 1953 or 54. Set up a train around Christmas time, on and off
                                                                                      sense then but never really got into the learning part of modeling, or
                                                                                      trains for that matter, until a few years ago when the Doc said I
                                                                                      should find a hobby. Started collecting Mantua engines, then rolling
                                                                                      stock, then catalogs. Never realized there was so much of it, or so
                                                                                      much I don't know. Set up a shelf line around my home office and now
                                                                                      working on my first real layout. Love the old steam and came here
                                                                                      looking for help making the old Mantua run as good as I think it
                                                                                      should. Hardly tell the difference between a Pacific and an Atlantic
                                                                                      but I'm learning. Hope you guys don't mind an old amateur asking dumb
                                                                                      questions.
                                                                                      Bill


                                                                                      Brings words and photos together (easily) with
                                                                                      PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.

                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 995 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 2/27/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: New member
                                                                                      A good place to brush up on wheel arrangements is...
                                                                                       
                                                                                       
                                                                                      On the home page one of the many headings is "Wheel Arrangements" and the drop down choices include "Definitions".  That takes you to this page...
                                                                                       
                                                                                       
                                                                                      This is the most comprehensive list I've seen.  Some wheel arrangements had different names depending on railroad.  For example, the 4-8-4 is usually called a "Northern", but this list shows a total of twelve possible names!  It looks like, when there are multiple names, they list the most common name first.
                                                                                       
                                                                                      This site has MUCH more prototype steam locomotive information.  They have a little section on models but it discusses only recent products.  There is a staggering amount of info at this site.  For example, use it's search for "5632" and you will find nine references to the famous CB&Q fan trip engine, including a story about its unfortunate demise.
                                                                                       
                                                                                      And for shay lovers, check out http://www.shaylocomotives.com/ currently with 2,769 data pages!
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Chuck Kinzer
                                                                                       
                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 10:26 AM
                                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] New member

                                                                                      Bill,
                                                                                      I think it's great to see people a little later in life return to earlier dreams.  They say "there's no time like now to begin".  Vintage HO is timeless, and the heritage of the early model RR'ers must go on, so why not now? 
                                                                                      While I wasn't around until a few years after you, I also grew up with the enchantment of the vintage trains.  I remember watching my dad run his little John English Yardbird switch engine around his hand-laid 4 X 8 layout in the basement.  He soon became engrossed in running a new business to feed us 6 kids and never finished that layout.  But the dream was still there, unanswered.  He helped me put a double track around my room in that fixed up basement of our house, but never got back into the hobby for himself.  Now he's in his 80's, had a stroke, and couldn't even think about going into the basement.  We're in different states now, but I plan on visiting him again soon and bringing him that original little JE Yardbird loco to help him remember the early dreams he had. 
                                                                                       
                                                                                      I personally think your Doctor was very smart to suggest getting into a hobby.  And you've got a great one!  You've also picked just about the best group out there with "Vintage HO".  The information, pictures, personalities, leadership, and memories are the best anywhere I've been!
                                                                                       
                                                                                      As far as the Mantua locos, I think they are an excellent choice for entering into the vintage-type aspect of the hobby.  Mantua's name has been around in one form or another since the 30's.  You can get a good "feel" for HO steam locos through this line.  I'd suggest picking up a decent referrence book or 2 on steam locos to brush up on your identification of different types.  But other than that, dig in and enjoy!
                                                                                      You mentioned making the Mantua's run better, I've refurbished many of them with the original 5 pole motors and found they can run very nicely.  Or, you can find remotoring for them in many places.  Our website at yardbirdtrains.com offers a couple of excellent kits that will help you, or you can find them from time to time on ebay (the place we all have to look at some time or another).  And yes, our business is named after that little 0-4-0 switcher that my dad had.  See what fond memories will do to you?
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Of course, in this group you will find out all kinds of info on the vintage greats of our hobby such as Varney, Penn Line, Bowser, Aristocraft, Winton, etc., etc. 
                                                                                       
                                                                                      We look forward to hearing from you, and let me say in the response to the last statement you made...  the only "dumb" questions are the ones that don't get asked. 
                                                                                       
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Dan Bush
                                                                                      "Yardy" 
                                                                                       
                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      From: Don Riley
                                                                                      Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 11:21 PM
                                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] New member

                                                                                      Bill,
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Everyone has to start somewhere!! Welcome aboard!!!
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Steamengine 4449

                                                                                      takefive247 <takefive@...> wrote:
                                                                                      Hello all,
                                                                                      New to the group. Reading some of the posts and think I am at a
                                                                                      disadvantage here. I was born in 1940, had a Lionel I shared with my
                                                                                      brother as a kid, (which I still have), and bought my first Mantua
                                                                                      around 1953 or 54. Set up a train around Christmas time, on and off
                                                                                      sense then but never really got into the learning part of modeling, or
                                                                                      trains for that matter, until a few years ago when the Doc said I
                                                                                      should find a hobby. Started collecting Mantua engines, then rolling
                                                                                      stock, then catalogs. Never realized there was so much of it, or so
                                                                                      much I don't know. Set up a shelf line around my home office and now
                                                                                      working on my first real layout. Love the old steam and came here
                                                                                      looking for help making the old Mantua run as good as I think it
                                                                                      should. Hardly tell the difference between a Pacific and an Atlantic
                                                                                      but I'm learning. Hope you guys don't mind an old amateur asking dumb
                                                                                      questions.
                                                                                      Bill


                                                                                      Brings words and photos together (easily) with
                                                                                      PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.

                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 996 From: Glenn Date: 2/27/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: New member
                                                                                      Best Mantuas (Pacifics and Mikados mainly) were those with the separate worm housing (not on the motor shaft)
                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 10:26 AM
                                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] New member

                                                                                      Bill,
                                                                                      I think it's great to see people a little later in life return to earlier dreams.  They say "there's no time like now to begin".  Vintage HO is timeless, and the heritage of the early model RR'ers must go on, so why not now? 
                                                                                      While I wasn't around until a few years after you, I also grew up with the enchantment of the vintage trains.  I remember watching my dad run his little John English Yardbird switch engine around his hand-laid 4 X 8 layout in the basement.  He soon became engrossed in running a new business to feed us 6 kids and never finished that layout.  But the dream was still there, unanswered.  He helped me put a double track around my room in that fixed up basement of our house, but never got back into the hobby for himself.  Now he's in his 80's, had a stroke, and couldn't even think about going into the basement.  We're in different states now, but I plan on visiting him again soon and bringing him that original little JE Yardbird loco to help him remember the early dreams he had. 
                                                                                       
                                                                                      I personally think your Doctor was very smart to suggest getting into a hobby.  And you've got a great one!  You've also picked just about the best group out there with "Vintage HO".  The information, pictures, personalities, leadership, and memories are the best anywhere I've been!
                                                                                       
                                                                                      As far as the Mantua locos, I think they are an excellent choice for entering into the vintage-type aspect of the hobby.  Mantua's name has been around in one form or another since the 30's.  You can get a good "feel" for HO steam locos through this line.  I'd suggest picking up a decent referrence book or 2 on steam locos to brush up on your identification of different types.  But other than that, dig in and enjoy!
                                                                                      You mentioned making the Mantua's run better, I've refurbished many of them with the original 5 pole motors and found they can run very nicely.  Or, you can find remotoring for them in many places.  Our website at yardbirdtrains.com offers a couple of excellent kits that will help you, or you can find them from time to time on ebay (the place we all have to look at some time or another).  And yes, our business is named after that little 0-4-0 switcher that my dad had.  See what fond memories will do to you?
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Of course, in this group you will find out all kinds of info on the vintage greats of our hobby such as Varney, Penn Line, Bowser, Aristocraft, Winton, etc., etc. 
                                                                                       
                                                                                      We look forward to hearing from you, and let me say in the response to the last statement you made...  the only "dumb" questions are the ones that don't get asked. 
                                                                                       
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Dan Bush
                                                                                      "Yardy" 
                                                                                       
                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      From: Don Riley
                                                                                      Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 11:21 PM
                                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] New member

                                                                                      Bill,
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Everyone has to start somewhere!! Welcome aboard!!!
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Steamengine 4449

                                                                                      takefive247 <takefive@...> wrote:
                                                                                      Hello all,
                                                                                      New to the group. Reading some of the posts and think I am at a
                                                                                      disadvantage here. I was born in 1940, had a Lionel I shared with my
                                                                                      brother as a kid, (which I still have), and bought my first Mantua
                                                                                      around 1953 or 54. Set up a train around Christmas time, on and off
                                                                                      sense then but never really got into the learning part of modeling, or
                                                                                      trains for that matter, until a few years ago when the Doc said I
                                                                                      should find a hobby. Started collecting Mantua engines, then rolling
                                                                                      stock, then catalogs. Never realized there was so much of it, or so
                                                                                      much I don't know. Set up a shelf line around my home office and now
                                                                                      working on my first real layout. Love the old steam and came here
                                                                                      looking for help making the old Mantua run as good as I think it
                                                                                      should. Hardly tell the difference between a Pacific and an Atlantic
                                                                                      but I'm learning. Hope you guys don't mind an old amateur asking dumb
                                                                                      questions.
                                                                                      Bill


                                                                                      Brings words and photos together (easily) with
                                                                                      PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.

                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 997 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 2/27/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: New member
                                                                                      Glenn,
                                                                                      I agree.  The older "powerdrive" enclosed gearboxes were a very smooth running machine.  The large Pittman motors supplied enough power to pull a ton. 
                                                                                      We also carry the Helix Humper remotor kits with the flywheel drive and idler gear setup.  Those replace the standard direct drive Mantuas and make them a real smooth-runner as well. 
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Dan Bush - Yardbird Classic Trains
                                                                                      Check our new additions and on-line discussion group at:
                                                                                      www.yardbirdtrains.com/Announcements.htm
                                                                                       
                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      From: Glenn
                                                                                      Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 3:29 PM
                                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] New member

                                                                                      Best Mantuas (Pacifics and Mikados mainly) were those with the separate worm housing (not on the motor shaft)
                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 10:26 AM
                                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] New member

                                                                                      Bill,
                                                                                      I think it's great to see people a little later in life return to earlier dreams.  They say "there's no time like now to begin".  Vintage HO is timeless, and the heritage of the early model RR'ers must go on, so why not now? 
                                                                                      While I wasn't around until a few years after you, I also grew up with the enchantment of the vintage trains.  I remember watching my dad run his little John English Yardbird switch engine around his hand-laid 4 X 8 layout in the basement.  He soon became engrossed in running a new business to feed us 6 kids and never finished that layout.  But the dream was still there, unanswered.  He helped me put a double track around my room in that fixed up basement of our house, but never got back into the hobby for himself.  Now he's in his 80's, had a stroke, and couldn't even think about going into the basement.  We're in different states now, but I plan on visiting him again soon and bringing him that original little JE Yardbird loco to help him remember the early dreams he had. 
                                                                                       
                                                                                      I personally think your Doctor was very smart to suggest getting into a hobby.  And you've got a great one!  You've also picked just about the best group out there with "Vintage HO".  The information, pictures, personalities, leadership, and memories are the best anywhere I've been!
                                                                                       
                                                                                      As far as the Mantua locos, I think they are an excellent choice for entering into the vintage-type aspect of the hobby.  Mantua's name has been around in one form or another since the 30's.  You can get a good "feel" for HO steam locos through this line.  I'd suggest picking up a decent referrence book or 2 on steam locos to brush up on your identification of different types.  But other than that, dig in and enjoy!
                                                                                      You mentioned making the Mantua's run better, I've refurbished many of them with the original 5 pole motors and found they can run very nicely.  Or, you can find remotoring for them in many places.  Our website at yardbirdtrains.com offers a couple of excellent kits that will help you, or you can find them from time to time on ebay (the place we all have to look at some time or another).  And yes, our business is named after that little 0-4-0 switcher that my dad had.  See what fond memories will do to you?
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Of course, in this group you will find out all kinds of info on the vintage greats of our hobby such as Varney, Penn Line, Bowser, Aristocraft, Winton, etc., etc. 
                                                                                       
                                                                                      We look forward to hearing from you, and let me say in the response to the last statement you made...  the only "dumb" questions are the ones that don't get asked. 
                                                                                       
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Dan Bush
                                                                                      "Yardy" 
                                                                                       
                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      From: Don Riley
                                                                                      Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 11:21 PM
                                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] New member

                                                                                      Bill,
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Everyone has to start somewhere!! Welcome aboard!!!
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Steamengine 4449

                                                                                      takefive247 <takefive@...> wrote:
                                                                                      Hello all,
                                                                                      New to the group. Reading some of the posts and think I am at a
                                                                                      disadvantage here. I was born in 1940, had a Lionel I shared with my
                                                                                      brother as a kid, (which I still have), and bought my first Mantua
                                                                                      around 1953 or 54. Set up a train around Christmas time, on and off
                                                                                      sense then but never really got into the learning part of modeling, or
                                                                                      trains for that matter, until a few years ago when the Doc said I
                                                                                      should find a hobby. Started collecting Mantua engines, then rolling
                                                                                      stock, then catalogs. Never realized there was so much of it, or so
                                                                                      much I don't know. Set up a shelf line around my home office and now
                                                                                      working on my first real layout. Love the old steam and came here
                                                                                      looking for help making the old Mantua run as good as I think it
                                                                                      should. Hardly tell the difference between a Pacific and an Atlantic
                                                                                      but I'm learning. Hope you guys don't mind an old amateur asking dumb
                                                                                      questions.
                                                                                      Bill


                                                                                      Brings words and photos together (easily) with
                                                                                      PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.

                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 998 From: Don Dellmann Date: 2/27/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: New member
                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      From: takefive247 <takefive@...>
                                                                                      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                      Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 9:22 PM
                                                                                      Subject: [vintageHO] New member


                                                                                      > Hello all,
                                                                                      > New to the group. Reading some of the posts and think I am at a
                                                                                      > disadvantage here. I was born in 1940, had a Lionel I shared with my
                                                                                      > brother as a kid, (which I still have), and bought my first Mantua
                                                                                      > around 1953 or 54. Set up a train around Christmas time, on and off
                                                                                      > sense then but never really got into the learning part of modeling, or
                                                                                      > trains for that matter, until a few years ago when the Doc said I
                                                                                      > should find a hobby. Started collecting Mantua engines, then rolling
                                                                                      > stock, then catalogs. Never realized there was so much of it, or so
                                                                                      > much I don't know. Set up a shelf line around my home office and now
                                                                                      > working on my first real layout. Love the old steam and came here
                                                                                      > looking for help making the old Mantua run as good as I think it
                                                                                      > should. Hardly tell the difference between a Pacific and an Atlantic
                                                                                      > but I'm learning. Hope you guys don't mind an old amateur asking dumb
                                                                                      > questions.
                                                                                      > Bill

                                                                                      I see most of the regular posters have beat me to it in welcoming you here
                                                                                      (life has a nasty habit of intruding on my 'puter time)., but welcome.
                                                                                      You're not out of place at all. As far as questions, if I had a buck for
                                                                                      every "dumb" question I've asked I could retire. <G>

                                                                                      One of the things I love about this group is the wealth of knowledge the
                                                                                      members bring, far beyond what I'd hoped for when I started it.

                                                                                      Don

                                                                                      don.dellmann@...
                                                                                      http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                      moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 999 From: Glenn Date: 2/27/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: New member
                                                                                      I also recall the Penn Line locos--a friend was a PRR fan--in SP territory--the PL locos had a HUGE worm--almost functioned as a flywheel.  Anyone ever run into a guy from PA named John Hornberger?  He'd be in his early 60's now--probably retired USN/.
                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 6:11 PM
                                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] New member

                                                                                      Glenn,
                                                                                      I agree.  The older "powerdrive" enclosed gearboxes were a very smooth running machine.  The large Pittman motors supplied enough power to pull a ton. 
                                                                                      We also carry the Helix Humper remotor kits with the flywheel drive and idler gear setup.  Those replace the standard direct drive Mantuas and make them a real smooth-runner as well. 

                                                                                      Dan Bush - Yardbird Classic Trains
                                                                                      Check our new additions and on-line discussion group at:
                                                                                      www.yardbirdtrains.com/Announcements.htm
                                                                                       
                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      From: Glenn
                                                                                      Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 3:29 PM
                                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] New member

                                                                                      Best Mantuas (Pacifics and Mikados mainly) were those with the separate worm housing (not on the motor shaft)
                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 10:26 AM
                                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] New member

                                                                                      Bill,
                                                                                      I think it's great to see people a little later in life return to earlier dreams.  They say "there's no time like now to begin".  Vintage HO is timeless, and the heritage of the early model RR'ers must go on, so why not now? 
                                                                                      While I wasn't around until a few years after you, I also grew up with the enchantment of the vintage trains.  I remember watching my dad run his little John English Yardbird switch engine around his hand-laid 4 X 8 layout in the basement.  He soon became engrossed in running a new business to feed us 6 kids and never finished that layout.  But the dream was still there, unanswered.  He helped me put a double track around my room in that fixed up basement of our house, but never got back into the hobby for himself.  Now he's in his 80's, had a stroke, and couldn't even think about going into the basement.  We're in different states now, but I plan on visiting him again soon and bringing him that original little JE Yardbird loco to help him remember the early dreams he had. 
                                                                                       
                                                                                      I personally think your Doctor was very smart to suggest getting into a hobby.  And you've got a great one!  You've also picked just about the best group out there with "Vintage HO".  The information, pictures, personalities, leadership, and memories are the best anywhere I've been!
                                                                                       
                                                                                      As far as the Mantua locos, I think they are an excellent choice for entering into the vintage-type aspect of the hobby.  Mantua's name has been around in one form or another since the 30's.  You can get a good "feel" for HO steam locos through this line.  I'd suggest picking up a decent referrence book or 2 on steam locos to brush up on your identification of different types.  But other than that, dig in and enjoy!
                                                                                      You mentioned making the Mantua's run better, I've refurbished many of them with the original 5 pole motors and found they can run very nicely.  Or, you can find remotoring for them in many places.  Our website at yardbirdtrains.com offers a couple of excellent kits that will help you, or you can find them from time to time on ebay (the place we all have to look at some time or another).  And yes, our business is named after that little 0-4-0 switcher that my dad had.  See what fond memories will do to you?
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Of course, in this group you will find out all kinds of info on the vintage greats of our hobby such as Varney, Penn Line, Bowser, Aristocraft, Winton, etc., etc. 
                                                                                       
                                                                                      We look forward to hearing from you, and let me say in the response to the last statement you made...  the only "dumb" questions are the ones that don't get asked. 
                                                                                       
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Dan Bush
                                                                                      "Yardy" 
                                                                                       
                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      From: Don Riley
                                                                                      Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 11:21 PM
                                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] New member

                                                                                      Bill,
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Everyone has to start somewhere!! Welcome aboard!!!
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Steamengine 4449

                                                                                      takefive247 <takefive@...> wrote:
                                                                                      Hello all,
                                                                                      New to the group. Reading some of the posts and think I am at a
                                                                                      disadvantage here. I was born in 1940, had a Lionel I shared with my
                                                                                      brother as a kid, (which I still have), and bought my first Mantua
                                                                                      around 1953 or 54. Set up a train around Christmas time, on and off
                                                                                      sense then but never really got into the learning part of modeling, or
                                                                                      trains for that matter, until a few years ago when the Doc said I
                                                                                      should find a hobby. Started collecting Mantua engines, then rolling
                                                                                      stock, then catalogs. Never realized there was so much of it, or so
                                                                                      much I don't know. Set up a shelf line around my home office and now
                                                                                      working on my first real layout. Love the old steam and came here
                                                                                      looking for help making the old Mantua run as good as I think it
                                                                                      should. Hardly tell the difference between a Pacific and an Atlantic
                                                                                      but I'm learning. Hope you guys don't mind an old amateur asking dumb
                                                                                      questions.
                                                                                      Bill


                                                                                      Brings words and photos together (easily) with
                                                                                      PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.

                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1000 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 2/27/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: New member
                                                                                      I've seen a young guy come into a hobby shop and ask about "hoe" gauge instead of "aich - oh".  People don't start much more basic than that.  And that was fine.  We helped him all we could.
                                                                                       
                                                                                      And I used to call Tuolemne (California) when I read about it in railroad magazines something like "too lome".
                                                                                       
                                                                                      And I may have to admit on the GandD group sometime that early on when first reading about it in the sixties I pronounced "Gorre & Daphetid" as "gore and DAF i tid".
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Chuck Kinzer
                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 1:42 PM
                                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] New member


                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      From: takefive247 <takefive@...>
                                                                                      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                      Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 9:22 PM
                                                                                      Subject: [vintageHO] New member


                                                                                      > Hello all,
                                                                                      > New to the group. Reading some of the posts and think I am at a
                                                                                      > disadvantage here. I was born in 1940, had a Lionel I shared with my
                                                                                      > brother as a kid, (which I still have), and bought my first Mantua
                                                                                      > around 1953 or 54. Set up a train around Christmas time, on and off
                                                                                      > sense then but never really got into the learning part of modeling, or
                                                                                      > trains for that matter, until a few years ago when the Doc said I
                                                                                      > should find a hobby. Started collecting Mantua engines, then rolling
                                                                                      > stock, then catalogs. Never realized there was so much of it, or so
                                                                                      > much I don't know. Set up a shelf line around my home office and now
                                                                                      > working on my first real layout. Love the old steam and came here
                                                                                      > looking for help making the old Mantua run as good as I think it
                                                                                      > should. Hardly tell the difference between a Pacific and an Atlantic
                                                                                      > but I'm learning. Hope you guys don't mind an old amateur asking dumb
                                                                                      > questions.
                                                                                      > Bill

                                                                                      I see most of the regular posters have beat me to it in welcoming you here
                                                                                      (life has a nasty habit of intruding on my 'puter time)., but welcome.
                                                                                      You're not out of place at all.  As far as questions, if I had a buck for
                                                                                      every "dumb" question I've asked I could retire. <G>

                                                                                      One of the things I love about this group is the wealth of knowledge the
                                                                                      members bring, far beyond what I'd hoped for when I started it.

                                                                                      Don

                                                                                      don.dellmann@...
                                                                                      http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                      moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO

                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1001 From: Glenn Date: 2/27/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: New member
                                                                                      How about "Tuolumne Aluminum and Linoleum Company" 
                                                                                       
                                                                                      I used to go up to the Tuolumne area on vacations and weekend trips--my Dad had business up there -- and he was a stickler on pronouncing Calif. names--gj
                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 8:18 PM
                                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] New member

                                                                                      I've seen a young guy come into a hobby shop and ask about "hoe" gauge instead of "aich - oh".  People don't start much more basic than that.  And that was fine.  We helped him all we could.
                                                                                       
                                                                                      And I used to call Tuolemne (California) when I read about it in railroad magazines something like "too lome".
                                                                                       
                                                                                      And I may have to admit on the GandD group sometime that early on when first reading about it in the sixties I pronounced "Gorre & Daphetid" as "gore and DAF i tid".
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Chuck Kinzer
                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 1:42 PM
                                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] New member


                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      From: takefive247 <takefive@...>
                                                                                      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                      Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 9:22 PM
                                                                                      Subject: [vintageHO] New member


                                                                                      > Hello all,
                                                                                      > New to the group. Reading some of the posts and think I am at a
                                                                                      > disadvantage here. I was born in 1940, had a Lionel I shared with my
                                                                                      > brother as a kid, (which I still have), and bought my first Mantua
                                                                                      > around 1953 or 54. Set up a train around Christmas time, on and off
                                                                                      > sense then but never really got into the learning part of modeling, or
                                                                                      > trains for that matter, until a few years ago when the Doc said I
                                                                                      > should find a hobby. Started collecting Mantua engines, then rolling
                                                                                      > stock, then catalogs. Never realized there was so much of it, or so
                                                                                      > much I don't know. Set up a shelf line around my home office and now
                                                                                      > working on my first real layout. Love the old steam and came here
                                                                                      > looking for help making the old Mantua run as good as I think it
                                                                                      > should. Hardly tell the difference between a Pacific and an Atlantic
                                                                                      > but I'm learning. Hope you guys don't mind an old amateur asking dumb
                                                                                      > questions.
                                                                                      > Bill

                                                                                      I see most of the regular posters have beat me to it in welcoming you here
                                                                                      (life has a nasty habit of intruding on my 'puter time)., but welcome.
                                                                                      You're not out of place at all.  As far as questions, if I had a buck for
                                                                                      every "dumb" question I've asked I could retire. <G>

                                                                                      One of the things I love about this group is the wealth of knowledge the
                                                                                      members bring, far beyond what I'd hoped for when I started it.

                                                                                      Don

                                                                                      don.dellmann@...
                                                                                      http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                      moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
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                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1002 From: takefive247 Date: 2/28/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: New member
                                                                                      Thanks guys for the welcome. I'm sure I will learn some things here.
                                                                                      Already have as a matter of fact.
                                                                                      Bill
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1003 From: busgrouches Date: 3/1/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Three-in-one kits
                                                                                      Does anyone on the list know where I can get the old three-in-one
                                                                                      kits. They were part of a Victorian (?). You could make several
                                                                                      differant cars out of them.

                                                                                      Frank
                                                                                      MP 254 BNSF Lampasas Sub
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1004 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/1/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Three-in-one kits
                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      From: busgrouches <busgrouches@...>
                                                                                      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                      Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 8:43 PM
                                                                                      Subject: [vintageHO] Three-in-one kits


                                                                                      > Does anyone on the list know where I can get the old three-in-one
                                                                                      > kits. They were part of a Victorian (?). You could make several
                                                                                      > differant cars out of them.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Frank
                                                                                      > MP 254 BNSF Lampasas Sub

                                                                                      Are you possibly thinking of the ones from MDC? They included three of
                                                                                      their regular kits with instructions on how to kitbash other cars from them
                                                                                      (however they often required purchasing additional parts to do the
                                                                                      conversions).

                                                                                      One of the earliest ones was three boxcars and a "station" building to do
                                                                                      the "Victoria Station" restaraunt.

                                                                                      These came out in the 70's, and to my knowledge continued right up almost to
                                                                                      the end of MDC. Hobby shops may still have them on the shelf.

                                                                                      Don

                                                                                      don.dellmann@...
                                                                                      http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                      moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
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                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1005 From: erieberk Date: 3/2/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: New member
                                                                                      Hi Bill, While I'm a little late in catching up here, I too would like
                                                                                      to give you a hearty welcome, and let you know also that the only dumb
                                                                                      question is one that is not asked. Please feel free to ask anything
                                                                                      you need. There are lots of guys here with loads of information and
                                                                                      they don't mind talking old trains; we look forward to it. Would just
                                                                                      like you to know that none of us were born with this info -- we all had
                                                                                      to start somewhere. Yes, there's quite a bit of it, but that's what
                                                                                      makes it all the more interesting. As long as you have the interest,
                                                                                      the learning part will come easy for you. Just as you do, many of us
                                                                                      like (and/or even prefer) the old steam engines with the monkey-action
                                                                                      of their valve gear and siderods, etc. Noticed you've already set up a
                                                                                      shelf layout -- you're off to a great start. Nothing like this for a
                                                                                      relaxing hobby! On those Mantua's, while they weren't the most
                                                                                      expensive models out there in their day, they certainly ran as good as
                                                                                      most of them, and if you're into super-detailing, you can do a lot with
                                                                                      them. Hope to hear more from you, and ask anything you need to. In
                                                                                      the meantime, pick up a copy or two of Model Railroader or similar
                                                                                      magazine to get you more aquainted with things and don;'t forget about
                                                                                      getting to local train shows (swap & sells) if there are any near you,
                                                                                      for finding older magazines and models. Regards, Ray W.
                                                                                      \
                                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <takefive@...> wrote:
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Hello all,
                                                                                      > New to the group. Reading some of the posts and think I am at a
                                                                                      > disadvantage here. I was born in 1940, had a Lionel I shared with my
                                                                                      > brother as a kid, (which I still have), and bought my first Mantua
                                                                                      > around 1953 or 54. Set up a train around Christmas time, on and off
                                                                                      > sense then but never really got into the learning part of modeling, or
                                                                                      > trains for that matter, until a few years ago when the Doc said I
                                                                                      > should find a hobby. Started collecting Mantua engines, then rolling
                                                                                      > stock, then catalogs. Never realized there was so much of it, or so
                                                                                      > much I don't know. Set up a shelf line around my home office and now
                                                                                      > working on my first real layout. Love the old steam and came here
                                                                                      > looking for help making the old Mantua run as good as I think it
                                                                                      > should. Hardly tell the difference between a Pacific and an Atlantic
                                                                                      > but I'm learning. Hope you guys don't mind an old amateur asking dumb
                                                                                      > questions.
                                                                                      > Bill
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1007 From: Larry Date: 3/2/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Three-in-one kits
                                                                                      Hello Frank

                                                                                      There is an old sales list of the MDC three in one kits at the link
                                                                                      below. Go to MDC Reference Information it is listed under Roundhouse
                                                                                      Three in One Kits. This should give an idea of what was made. I
                                                                                      noticed the Victorian Series is listed here.
                                                                                      http://www.hoseeker.net/lit.html
                                                                                      As far as finding these kits, I would suggest train shows or maybe
                                                                                      Ebay.

                                                                                      Larry



                                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "busgrouches" <busgrouches@...>
                                                                                      wrote:
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Does anyone on the list know where I can get the old three-in-one
                                                                                      > kits. They were part of a Victorian (?). You could make several
                                                                                      > differant cars out of them.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Frank
                                                                                      > MP 254 BNSF Lampasas Sub
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1008 From: erieberk Date: 3/2/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Three-in-one kits
                                                                                      Frank, As I seem to recall, Suydam used to make 3 in 1 kits, like
                                                                                      period gondolas, etc., if that's what you're thinking of. So, you
                                                                                      could start there as an eBay search. Ray W.
                                                                                      \
                                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "busgrouches" <busgrouches@...> wrote:
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Does anyone on the list know where I can get the old three-in-one
                                                                                      > kits. They were part of a Victorian (?). You could make several
                                                                                      > differant cars out of them.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Frank
                                                                                      > MP 254 BNSF Lampasas Sub
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1009 From: kurt youngmann Date: 3/2/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Three-in-one kits
                                                                                      On Mar 2, 2006, at 9:14 AM, erieberk wrote:

                                                                                      > Frank, As I seem to recall, Suydam used to make 3 in 1 kits, like
                                                                                      > period gondolas, etc., if that's what you're thinking of. So, you
                                                                                      > could start there as an eBay search. Ray W.
                                                                                      > \
                                                                                      > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "busgrouches" <busgrouches@...>
                                                                                      > wrote:
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > Does anyone on the list know where I can get the old three-in-one
                                                                                      > > kits. They were part of a Victorian (?). You could make several
                                                                                      > > differant cars out of them.

                                                                                      La Belle offered at least one 3-in-1 kit and I seem to remember that
                                                                                      Ambroid had a 2-in-1. But my memory is a bit fuzzy on this.

                                                                                      Does anyone else remember these?

                                                                                      Kurt Youngmann
                                                                                      SKP Lines
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1010 From: Glenn Date: 3/2/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Three-in-one kits
                                                                                      were those the old MDC kits where they supplied a bunch of parts and some kitbashing ideas?  To me they barely qhalify as "ancient HO"  since they are mainly plastic.  (I count the little 30' fishbelly flat car as the transition point between the all-die-cast line and the modern era for MDC. I remember when it came out-- I was still in High School.
                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 6:43 PM
                                                                                      Subject: [vintageHO] Three-in-one kits

                                                                                      Does anyone on the list know where I can get the old three-in-one
                                                                                      kits. They were part of a Victorian (?). You could make several
                                                                                      differant cars out of them.

                                                                                      Frank
                                                                                      MP 254 BNSF Lampasas Sub



                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1011 From: takefive247 Date: 3/2/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: New member
                                                                                      Thanks Ray,
                                                                                      And everyone else. I have tons of stuff and tons of books. I've
                                                                                      been sort of a pack rat for some time. But I never really got into the
                                                                                      hands on part of the hobby and that's why I may be asking some dumb
                                                                                      questions or may be in the wrong group for some of the questions I have.
                                                                                      In any case I am glad to be here and happy to know there are good
                                                                                      folks out there that can help me.
                                                                                      Speaking of train shows. There is one this Sunday at the Cheshire,
                                                                                      Ct. High School. Is anyone going?
                                                                                      Bill

                                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "erieberk" <erieberk@...> wrote:
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Hi Bill, While I'm a little late in catching up here, I too would like
                                                                                      > to give you a hearty welcome, and let you know also that the only dumb
                                                                                      > question is one that is not asked. Please feel free to ask anything
                                                                                      > you need. There are lots of guys here with loads of information and
                                                                                      > they don't mind talking old trains; we look forward to it. Would just
                                                                                      > like you to know that none of us were born with this info -- we all had
                                                                                      > to start somewhere. Yes, there's quite a bit of it, but that's what
                                                                                      > makes it all the more interesting. As long as you have the interest,
                                                                                      > the learning part will come easy for you. Just as you do, many of us
                                                                                      > like (and/or even prefer) the old steam engines with the monkey-action
                                                                                      > of their valve gear and siderods, etc. Noticed you've already set up a
                                                                                      > shelf layout -- you're off to a great start. Nothing like this for a
                                                                                      > relaxing hobby! On those Mantua's, while they weren't the most
                                                                                      > expensive models out there in their day, they certainly ran as good as
                                                                                      > most of them, and if you're into super-detailing, you can do a lot with
                                                                                      > them. Hope to hear more from you, and ask anything you need to. In
                                                                                      > the meantime, pick up a copy or two of Model Railroader or similar
                                                                                      > magazine to get you more aquainted with things and don;'t forget about
                                                                                      > getting to local train shows (swap & sells) if there are any near you,
                                                                                      > for finding older magazines and models. Regards, Ray W.
                                                                                      > \
                                                                                      > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <takefive@> wrote:
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > Hello all,
                                                                                      > > New to the group. Reading some of the posts and think I am at a
                                                                                      > > disadvantage here. I was born in 1940, had a Lionel I shared with my
                                                                                      > > brother as a kid, (which I still have), and bought my first Mantua
                                                                                      > > around 1953 or 54. Set up a train around Christmas time, on and off
                                                                                      > > sense then but never really got into the learning part of modeling, or
                                                                                      > > trains for that matter, until a few years ago when the Doc said I
                                                                                      > > should find a hobby. Started collecting Mantua engines, then rolling
                                                                                      > > stock, then catalogs. Never realized there was so much of it, or so
                                                                                      > > much I don't know. Set up a shelf line around my home office and now
                                                                                      > > working on my first real layout. Love the old steam and came here
                                                                                      > > looking for help making the old Mantua run as good as I think it
                                                                                      > > should. Hardly tell the difference between a Pacific and an Atlantic
                                                                                      > > but I'm learning. Hope you guys don't mind an old amateur asking dumb
                                                                                      > > questions.
                                                                                      > > Bill
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1012 From: Rick Jones Date: 3/2/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Three-in-one kits
                                                                                      kurt youngmann wrote:
                                                                                      > On Mar 2, 2006, at 9:14 AM, erieberk wrote:
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >>Frank, As I seem to recall, Suydam used to make 3 in 1 kits, like
                                                                                      >>period gondolas, etc., if that's what you're thinking of. So, you
                                                                                      >>could start there as an eBay search. Ray W.
                                                                                      >>\
                                                                                      >>--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "busgrouches" <busgrouches@...>
                                                                                      >>wrote:
                                                                                      >>
                                                                                      >>>Does anyone on the list know where I can get the old three-in-one
                                                                                      >>>kits. They were part of a Victorian (?). You could make several
                                                                                      >>>differant cars out of them.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > La Belle offered at least one 3-in-1 kit and I seem to remember that
                                                                                      > Ambroid had a 2-in-1. But my memory is a bit fuzzy on this.

                                                                                      I have a few Ambroid 2-In-1 anniversary kits that have a gondola and
                                                                                      a hopper car, both of which had been available separately as single
                                                                                      kits. I also have an Ambroid 3-In-1 which combined the 3 Boston & Maine
                                                                                      passenger car kits they had sold separately.
                                                                                      Scotia Scale Models sold a 3-In-1 kit for Russell log cars. I've
                                                                                      built these and they are very nice.

                                                                                      --

                                                                                      Rick Jones
                                                                                      Remove the Extra Dot to e-mail me

                                                                                      The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad
                                                                                      http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/

                                                                                      Charlie Brown works for Peanuts.
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1013 From: Don Rowland Date: 3/2/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Three-in-one kits
                                                                                      There are usually several, at any one time on eBay. Tonight, there
                                                                                      are the following:

                                                                                      3-IN-1 Kits
                                                                                      Item number: 6040671391 # 1510 Climax Loco
                                                                                      Item number: 6040412215 # ???? 26' OLD TIMER LOG CAR SET
                                                                                      Item number: 6040335638 # 1512 Victoria Square Cable House & Pass Car

                                                                                      Don
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1014 From: Rob Quagan Date: 3/2/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Ambroid History - 3 in 1 kit
                                                                                      Folks,

                                                                                      I discovered this excellent site on Ambroid. Thought I would share
                                                                                      it, while you guys were discussing 3-in-1's. In fact, I saw Ambroid
                                                                                      Kit #K-8 (K-S), Open Clerestory Series, "Three-In-One-Kit" last week
                                                                                      on Ebay. I'm kicking myself I didn't bid on it. These were based on
                                                                                      Boston & Maine prototypes I believe were built by Concord Car and
                                                                                      Laconia between 1895 and 1910, lasting into 1956 in local service
                                                                                      until replaced by RDC's. At least a dozen have been restored and are
                                                                                      in daily service on the Strasburg RR.

                                                                                      Anyhow, I'm in the process of working with Rick Steele of Labelle to
                                                                                      replace the stock Ambroid solid wood clerestories of three early
                                                                                      Ambroid kits I'm in the process of building (K-5,K-6,K-7). After 1963
                                                                                      Ambroid upgrade these roofs with a better milled out version.

                                                                                      In my case Rick is putting together a package current Labelle
                                                                                      clerestories as upgrades for my earlier Ambroid roofs. It was really
                                                                                      nice of him to offer.

                                                                                      Ambroid History Site Check out:
                                                                                      http://home.att.net/~pers_home/trains/woodkits/Ambroid_Kits.htm

                                                                                      Info on Ambroid 3-in-1:
                                                                                      http://home.att.net/~pers_home/trains/woodkits/Ambroid_K-Cars.htm#K-S


                                                                                      Enjoy!!

                                                                                      Regards,

                                                                                      Rob Quagan
                                                                                      West Roxbury, MA
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1015 From: Gerry D Date: 3/2/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Three-in-one kits
                                                                                      Hi Frank,
                                                                                      For what it's worth, I designed some parts of the
                                                                                      three in one kits. You can see some data related to
                                                                                      that on my page, http://kitbash.ourpage.org
                                                                                      I think I'm the only one that had their name included
                                                                                      in the instructions.

                                                                                      The list is below:
                                                                                      1500 26'log car set
                                                                                      1501 wood chip car set
                                                                                      1502 shorty flat car set
                                                                                      1503 MOW passenger car set
                                                                                      1504 Part 1 Shanty Town Wayside Station
                                                                                      1505 Part 2 Shanty Town, Gandy Dancer's Quarters
                                                                                      1506 Part 3 Shanty Town, Telegraph Office & Serv.Fac.
                                                                                      1507 fire fighting train set
                                                                                      1508 Ore Jimmies
                                                                                      1509 3 Log Cars, 36' & building set
                                                                                      1510 Climax mine loco dummy
                                                                                      1511 Restaurant, Victoria station
                                                                                      1512 Powerhouse, cable house & passenger car kits
                                                                                      1513 shop & cable car barn kit
                                                                                      1514 Austin city street scen
                                                                                      1515 Part 1 Rotary Snow Plow & tender
                                                                                      1516 Part 2 Jordan Spreader & Snow Crab & Tool Car
                                                                                      1517 Part 3 Snow Dozer, Flanger & Snow Plow
                                                                                      1518 Golloping Goose diesel conversion dummy
                                                                                      1519(a) M&W Steam Shovel & Channel Frame Dump Car
                                                                                      1519(b) Snow Plow Project Kit
                                                                                      1520 (number skipped?)
                                                                                      1521 Mom's Diner

                                                                                      I've been trying to collect two of each of them
                                                                                      myself. I the only ones I need is #1507 (two) and one
                                                                                      of the #1519(b). I call it #1519(b) as the number was
                                                                                      the same as for the steam shovel.

                                                                                      The majority of mine were gathered from Ebay and a
                                                                                      Hobby Shop in NY. Several I got from ebay were not
                                                                                      complete, so beware of that type of source.

                                                                                      Cordially,
                                                                                      Gerry D.


                                                                                      --- busgrouches <busgrouches@...> wrote:

                                                                                      > Does anyone on the list know where I can get the old
                                                                                      > three-in-one
                                                                                      > kits. They were part of a Victorian (?). You could
                                                                                      > make several
                                                                                      > differant cars out of them.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Frank
                                                                                      > MP 254 BNSF Lampasas Sub
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >


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                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1017 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/3/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Three-in-one kits & Tyco op-hoppers
                                                                                      hey Gerry, thats is a fantastic side dump hopper!
                                                                                      (as seen on your page there:

                                                                                      <img src = "http://ourpage.com/kitbash/images/1519as-delivered.jpg"
                                                                                      alt = "side dump hopper with attitude" />

                                                                                      like John Allens swaybacked boxcars, it really evokes the "Battle
                                                                                      Mountain" effect.
                                                                                      i never saw anything like that in the 3-in-1 kits stocked at my local
                                                                                      shops, mores the pity as i would have made up a whole string by now.
                                                                                      it reminds me of the Kadee disconnected logger cars in some way.
                                                                                      i did however manage to grab 4 of the shorty fishbelly hoppers, they
                                                                                      are a prize part of my coffee mine operations (they carry out used
                                                                                      grounds from the "smelter" (brewery), usually shunted about by a
                                                                                      Mantua 0-4-0 tanker.

                                                                                      btw, i noticed you had completed your Tyco operating hopper
                                                                                      collection.
                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tyco_trains/files/
                                                                                      congrats, etc, and i dont suppose you know where an old imp could
                                                                                      find a few extra?
                                                                                      (you know, me and my coffee trains!)

                                                                                      regards

                                                                                      ...

                                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Gerry D <gerard_sr@...> wrote:
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      some data related to
                                                                                      > that on my page, http://kitbash.ourpage.org

                                                                                      ...
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1018 From: Gerry D Date: 3/3/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Three-in-one kits & Tyco op-hoppers
                                                                                      Hello Imp,
                                                                                      Thanks for the kind words! I don't ever remember any
                                                                                      mention ever being made of my models along with John
                                                                                      Allen in the same paragraph, quite an honor! (I added
                                                                                      the alt image tag!)

                                                                                      There is a story to that side dump car, it was part of
                                                                                      the Ditcher Kit, numbered 1519, they later released a
                                                                                      snowplow that I also designed as #1519 but did not
                                                                                      credit me. As you may have seen in the reprint of the
                                                                                      Kitbash Award by Railroad Model Craftsman, the
                                                                                      original was one of the images published.

                                                                                      The side dump car is just the frame from a 26' tank
                                                                                      car and sides made from the 26' flatcar. I used carbon
                                                                                      resistors to simulate the extra air tank and pistons.
                                                                                      Kind of crude, but it worked.

                                                                                      Them there operating hoppers are always showing up on
                                                                                      Ebay, watch it for a while and you’ll see one or two
                                                                                      high bidders that you can’t win against. I’ve got
                                                                                      about 36 or so of them critters. What I would like is
                                                                                      a few more Monon covered hoppers though.

                                                                                      The other thing I’m looking for is two of the fire
                                                                                      train kits. The Keyser Creek RR may just trade a few
                                                                                      of them 32’ operating hoppers for them.

                                                                                      The Coffee Mine Railroad? There has to be a good story
                                                                                      behind that!

                                                                                      Cordially,
                                                                                      Gerry



                                                                                      --- Imp Ster <iimpster@...> wrote:

                                                                                      > hey Gerry, thats is a fantastic side dump hopper!
                                                                                      > (as seen on your page there:
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > <img src =
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      "http://ourpage.com/kitbash/images/1519as-delivered.jpg"
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > alt = "side dump hopper with attitude" />
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > like John Allens swaybacked boxcars, it really
                                                                                      > evokes the "Battle
                                                                                      > Mountain" effect.
                                                                                      > i never saw anything like that in the 3-in-1 kits
                                                                                      > stocked at my local
                                                                                      > shops, mores the pity as i would have made up a
                                                                                      > whole string by now.
                                                                                      > it reminds me of the Kadee disconnected logger cars
                                                                                      > in some way.
                                                                                      > i did however manage to grab 4 of the shorty
                                                                                      > fishbelly hoppers, they
                                                                                      > are a prize part of my coffee mine operations (they
                                                                                      > carry out used
                                                                                      > grounds from the "smelter" (brewery), usually
                                                                                      > shunted about by a
                                                                                      > Mantua 0-4-0 tanker.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > btw, i noticed you had completed your Tyco operating
                                                                                      > hopper
                                                                                      > collection.
                                                                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tyco_trains/files/
                                                                                      > congrats, etc, and i dont suppose you know where an
                                                                                      > old imp could
                                                                                      > find a few extra?
                                                                                      > (you know, me and my coffee trains!)
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > regards
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > ...
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Gerry D
                                                                                      > <gerard_sr@...> wrote:
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > some data related to
                                                                                      > > that on my page, http://kitbash.ourpage.org
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > ...
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >


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                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1019 From: busgrouches Date: 3/4/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Three-in-one kits
                                                                                      Sorry that I hadn't gotten back to everyone that answered my inquire
                                                                                      about the 3-in-1 kits.

                                                                                      I want to say thanks to all the response's about the three in one
                                                                                      kits. The reasoned I asked is that I have a couple of the Battle
                                                                                      Mountain hoppers, and the some of the log bunker cars and the lumber
                                                                                      flats. I haven't found the plans or other paper work that came in the
                                                                                      kits. I know that I have them somewhere in my boxes of plans and
                                                                                      drawings.
                                                                                      I have been out of the hobby loop for awhile and now that the chief
                                                                                      dispatcher (wife) has given me a room to work with. I have unpacked
                                                                                      75% of my rolling stock and the first boxes that I unpacked was the 3-
                                                                                      in-one cars.
                                                                                      Many thanks to you all. I will look on the e-bay site.

                                                                                      Frank
                                                                                      MP 254 BNSF Lampasas Sub
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1020 From: Gerry D Date: 3/4/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Three-in-one kits
                                                                                      Frank,
                                                                                      Let me know what you need and I'll scan them for you.
                                                                                      I'll then post them on my site in PDF format for you
                                                                                      to download.
                                                                                      Like this one: http://ourpage.com/fairmont/ Original
                                                                                      Fairmont Manufacturers Borchure.

                                                                                      Gerry



                                                                                      --- busgrouches <busgrouches@...> wrote:

                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Sorry that I hadn't gotten back to everyone that
                                                                                      > answered my inquire
                                                                                      > about the 3-in-1 kits.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > I want to say thanks to all the response's about the
                                                                                      > three in one
                                                                                      > kits. The reasoned I asked is that I have a couple
                                                                                      > of the Battle
                                                                                      > Mountain hoppers, and the some of the log bunker
                                                                                      > cars and the lumber
                                                                                      > flats. I haven't found the plans or other paper work
                                                                                      > that came in the
                                                                                      > kits. I know that I have them somewhere in my boxes
                                                                                      > of plans and
                                                                                      > drawings.
                                                                                      > I have been out of the hobby loop for awhile and now
                                                                                      > that the chief
                                                                                      > dispatcher (wife) has given me a room to work with.
                                                                                      > I have unpacked
                                                                                      > 75% of my rolling stock and the first boxes that I
                                                                                      > unpacked was the 3-
                                                                                      > in-one cars.
                                                                                      > Many thanks to you all. I will look on the e-bay
                                                                                      > site.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Frank
                                                                                      > MP 254 BNSF Lampasas Sub
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >


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                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1021 From: Gerry D Date: 3/4/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Three-in-one kits
                                                                                      Frank,
                                                                                      Here's what they will look like:
                                                                                      http://ourpage.com/3in1/1500.pdf
                                                                                      I should have started scanning them a long time ago.
                                                                                      I'll get all I have scanned over the weekend and post
                                                                                      them there with an index.
                                                                                      http://ourpage.com/3in1/index.html
                                                                                      (The index ain't there yet, but will be later today.)
                                                                                      Cordially,
                                                                                      Gerry

                                                                                      --- busgrouches <busgrouches@...> wrote:

                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Sorry that I hadn't gotten back to everyone that
                                                                                      > answered my inquire
                                                                                      > about the 3-in-1 kits.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > I want to say thanks to all the response's about the
                                                                                      > three in one
                                                                                      > kits. The reasoned I asked is that I have a couple
                                                                                      > of the Battle
                                                                                      > Mountain hoppers, and the some of the log bunker
                                                                                      > cars and the lumber
                                                                                      > flats. I haven't found the plans or other paper work
                                                                                      > that came in the
                                                                                      > kits. I know that I have them somewhere in my boxes
                                                                                      > of plans and
                                                                                      > drawings.
                                                                                      > I have been out of the hobby loop for awhile and now
                                                                                      > that the chief
                                                                                      > dispatcher (wife) has given me a room to work with.
                                                                                      > I have unpacked
                                                                                      > 75% of my rolling stock and the first boxes that I
                                                                                      > unpacked was the 3-
                                                                                      > in-one cars.
                                                                                      > Many thanks to you all. I will look on the e-bay
                                                                                      > site.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Frank
                                                                                      > MP 254 BNSF Lampasas Sub
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >


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                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1022 From: Glenn Date: 3/4/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Three-in-one kits & Tyco op-hoppers
                                                                                      Coffee Mine?  that sounds "E.L.Moore-ish"--
                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      From: Gerry D
                                                                                      Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 10:44 PM
                                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Three-in-one kits & Tyco op-hoppers

                                                                                      Hello Imp,
                                                                                      Thanks for the kind words! I don't ever remember any
                                                                                      mention ever being made of my models along with John
                                                                                      Allen in the same paragraph, quite an honor! (I added
                                                                                      the alt image tag!)

                                                                                      There is a story to that side dump car, it was part of
                                                                                      the Ditcher Kit, numbered 1519, they later released a
                                                                                      snowplow that I also designed as #1519 but did not
                                                                                      credit me. As you may have seen in the reprint of the
                                                                                      Kitbash Award by Railroad Model Craftsman, the
                                                                                      original was one of the images published.

                                                                                      The side dump car is just the frame from a 26' tank
                                                                                      car and sides made from the 26' flatcar. I used carbon
                                                                                      resistors to simulate the extra air tank and pistons.
                                                                                      Kind of crude, but it worked.

                                                                                      Them there operating hoppers are always showing up on
                                                                                      Ebay, watch it for a while and you’ll see one or two
                                                                                      high bidders that you can’t win against. I’ve got
                                                                                      about 36 or so of them critters. What I would like is
                                                                                      a few more Monon covered hoppers though.

                                                                                      The other thing I’m looking for is two of the fire
                                                                                      train kits. The Keyser Creek RR may just trade a few
                                                                                      of them 32’ operating hoppers for them.

                                                                                      The Coffee Mine Railroad? There has to be a good story
                                                                                      behind that!

                                                                                      Cordially,
                                                                                      Gerry



                                                                                      --- Imp Ster <iimpster@...> wrote:

                                                                                      > hey Gerry, thats is a fantastic side dump hopper!
                                                                                      > (as seen on your page there:
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > <img src =
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      "http://ourpage.com/kitbash/images/1519as-delivered.jpg"
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > alt = "side dump hopper with attitude" />
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > like John Allens swaybacked boxcars, it really
                                                                                      > evokes the "Battle
                                                                                      > Mountain" effect.
                                                                                      > i never saw anything like that in the 3-in-1 kits
                                                                                      > stocked at my local
                                                                                      > shops, mores the pity as i would have made up a
                                                                                      > whole string by now.
                                                                                      > it reminds me of the Kadee disconnected logger cars
                                                                                      > in some way.
                                                                                      > i did however manage to grab 4 of the shorty
                                                                                      > fishbelly hoppers, they
                                                                                      > are a prize part of my coffee mine operations (they
                                                                                      > carry out used
                                                                                      > grounds from the "smelter" (brewery), usually
                                                                                      > shunted about by a
                                                                                      > Mantua 0-4-0 tanker.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > btw, i noticed you had completed your Tyco operating
                                                                                      > hopper
                                                                                      > collection.
                                                                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tyco_trains/files/
                                                                                      > congrats, etc, and i dont suppose you know where an
                                                                                      > old imp could
                                                                                      > find a few extra?
                                                                                      > (you know, me and my coffee trains!)
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > regards
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > ...
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Gerry D
                                                                                      > <gerard_sr@...> wrote:
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > some data related to
                                                                                      > > that on my page, http://kitbash.ourpage.org
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > ...
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >


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                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1023 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/4/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Fire Trains -
                                                                                      ack, i saw 3 boxes of Fire Train 3-in-1's at a shop i worked at briefly
                                                                                      late last year.
                                                                                      dont recall what roadname, they hadnt sold and had sat on shelf so long
                                                                                      we got used to dusting them off once a month.
                                                                                      let me rattle a pard's cage up yonder and will get back to ya on that
                                                                                      next week early.
                                                                                      meanwhile, if you can sort thru your surplus hoppers, i'm gonna need
                                                                                      every last wagon you can stand to part with.
                                                                                      sale, trade or "lease" :-))
                                                                                      (& anybody else? - please help get me some Fire Train kits for this guy
                                                                                      so i can trade 'em for more op-hoppers!)

                                                                                      i got the word out to Yardy now for look for a pair of sturdy Pacifics
                                                                                      (smokems if he gottems), to make a double-up on this coffee train
                                                                                      shtick.
                                                                                      if all goes well, i will eventually have a real nice steam
                                                                                      powered "coffee train" to grind along on the weekend RXR webcasts for
                                                                                      you all, my adoring Publik here at Vintage HO.

                                                                                      ...
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1024 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/4/2006
                                                                                      Subject: notes on the Coffee Mine
                                                                                      it all began with a classic AHM "Coal Mine" building located at the
                                                                                      central dbl-slip location known as "SLC" in the Buss Ry system.
                                                                                      that poor ol mine building went thru 'ell in the years past.
                                                                                      once it was completely flattened apart and spent time in storage.
                                                                                      later i had it back together, but during some roof repairs (on the Buss
                                                                                      itself), i stepped thru the skylight and put a foot squarely on the
                                                                                      poor thing, so that flattened it a SECOND time, along with a long-
                                                                                      suffering edition of the "Brick Factory".

                                                                                      so eventualy i put them both back together, but this time i re-inforce
                                                                                      every seam and corner with extra styrene "angle iron".
                                                                                      as per AHM Scriptchure, the "Coal Mine" has 2 HOn2 1/2 (N gauge) tracks
                                                                                      added, and a MiniTrain mine set, but as i havent yet found any reliable
                                                                                      N scale motive power in Porter or Plymouth format, the mine spur is for
                                                                                      display only at present time.

                                                                                      anyway, as the mine is located conveniently near the Buss pantry, used
                                                                                      coffee grounds are in plentiful supply.
                                                                                      hence my need for massive "ore" and "slag" trains carrying all manner
                                                                                      of grounds to and from the various points of industry.

                                                                                      i have pretty much given up finding enough die-cast Varneys and Ulrich
                                                                                      hoppers to make a decent train, so focused instead on building a good
                                                                                      long train of the MDC and Tyco product.
                                                                                      all my Tycos have been converted to metal wheels, most with KD sprung
                                                                                      trucks, and i will eventualy do all the MDC shorty ores in KD wheels as
                                                                                      well.
                                                                                      there is absolutely nothing like the sound of a nice long train rolling
                                                                                      at speed with "steel wheels on steel rails".

                                                                                      (and talk about a mirror polish on the rail head! - dont get me
                                                                                      started.)

                                                                                      ...
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1025 From: Gerry D Date: 3/4/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Fire Trains -
                                                                                      Say Imp,
                                                                                      check this out:
                                                                                      http://ourpage.com/tyco/hoppers-640.jpg

                                                                                      I really only need two, (2), dos, a pair, of fire
                                                                                      train kits. One to build and one to save.

                                                                                      So in that kit there are three cars, that, according
                                                                                      to the shop foreman, is 12 wheel sets in one kit or 24
                                                                                      wheel sets in two kits. He said he would swap for 24
                                                                                      wheel sets under the hoppers. As you well know, them
                                                                                      hoppers don't move too gracefully without wheels, so I
                                                                                      guess 6 hoppers would have to go with the wheel sets.

                                                                                      Gerry

                                                                                      --- Imp Ster <iimpster@...> wrote:

                                                                                      > ack, i saw 3 boxes of Fire Train 3-in-1's at a shop
                                                                                      > i worked at briefly
                                                                                      > late last year.
                                                                                      > dont recall what roadname, they hadnt sold and had
                                                                                      > sat on shelf so long
                                                                                      > we got used to dusting them off once a month.
                                                                                      > let me rattle a pard's cage up yonder and will get
                                                                                      > back to ya on that
                                                                                      > next week early.
                                                                                      > meanwhile, if you can sort thru your surplus
                                                                                      > hoppers, i'm gonna need
                                                                                      > every last wagon you can stand to part with.
                                                                                      > sale, trade or "lease" :-))
                                                                                      > (& anybody else? - please help get me some Fire
                                                                                      > Train kits for this guy
                                                                                      > so i can trade 'em for more op-hoppers!)
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > i got the word out to Yardy now for look for a pair
                                                                                      > of sturdy Pacifics
                                                                                      > (smokems if he gottems), to make a double-up on this
                                                                                      > coffee train
                                                                                      > shtick.
                                                                                      > if all goes well, i will eventually have a real nice
                                                                                      > steam
                                                                                      > powered "coffee train" to grind along on the weekend
                                                                                      > RXR webcasts for
                                                                                      > you all, my adoring Publik here at Vintage HO.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > ...
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >


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                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1026 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/4/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Fire Trains -
                                                                                      ok Gerry, i will start leaning on my sources!
                                                                                      will email as well as post to list, as soon as i hear anything.

                                                                                      cheers

                                                                                      ...

                                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Gerry D <gerard_sr@...> wrote:
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Say Imp,
                                                                                      > check this out:
                                                                                      > http://ourpage.com/tyco/hoppers-640.jpg
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > I really only need two, (2), dos, a pair, of fire
                                                                                      > train kits. One to build and one to save.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > So in that kit there are three cars, that, according
                                                                                      > to the shop foreman, is 12 wheel sets in one kit or 24
                                                                                      > wheel sets in two kits. He said he would swap for 24
                                                                                      > wheel sets under the hoppers. As you well know, them
                                                                                      > hoppers don't move too gracefully without wheels, so I
                                                                                      > guess 6 hoppers would have to go with the wheel sets.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Gerry
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > --- Imp Ster <iimpster@...> wrote:
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1027 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/4/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Sat Nite RXR Webcast- Old #1 is running!
                                                                                      da imp proudly presents an exclusive invitation to Vintage HO members.
                                                                                      Yahoo Messenger Webcam is now operating, featuring Old #1 (the Tyco Ten
                                                                                      Wheeler) Tea Kettle Express.

                                                                                      i'll be putting the BoxCab pair on the inner loop as soon as i answer
                                                                                      an email and remember where i put the dagnab critters.

                                                                                      for our friends on the West Coast (and points further west), no
                                                                                      worries, be happy - the webcast will continue well into the wee hours.

                                                                                      RXR!

                                                                                      ...
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1028 From: Gerry D Date: 3/4/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Sat Nite RXR Webcast- Old #1 is running!
                                                                                      And where would one view this "webcast"?

                                                                                      --- Imp Ster <iimpster@...> wrote:

                                                                                      > da imp proudly presents an exclusive invitation to
                                                                                      > Vintage HO members.
                                                                                      > Yahoo Messenger Webcam is now operating, featuring
                                                                                      > Old #1 (the Tyco Ten
                                                                                      > Wheeler) Tea Kettle Express.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > i'll be putting the BoxCab pair on the inner loop as
                                                                                      > soon as i answer
                                                                                      > an email and remember where i put the dagnab
                                                                                      > critters.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > for our friends on the West Coast (and points
                                                                                      > further west), no
                                                                                      > worries, be happy - the webcast will continue well
                                                                                      > into the wee hours.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > RXR!
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > ...
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >


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                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1029 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/4/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Sat Nite RXR Webcast- Boxcabs and "coffee train" up next
                                                                                      hi Gerry, i just sent you a ping on the Yahoo Messenger system, you
                                                                                      should then see a link to the webcam, in either the IM frame itself
                                                                                      (as a tool button) or you can also see it as a hot-linked 'status
                                                                                      msg' next to my ID (if listed) on the main Messenger console.
                                                                                      hope you will tune in, the boxcabs are working hard and i will be
                                                                                      adding more cars in a moment, including 3 of those certain hoppers we
                                                                                      know and love!
                                                                                      (the others are hibernating out in the bus layout)

                                                                                      btw, i got a chance to view that pic you posted.
                                                                                      with all the hoppers lined up.
                                                                                      yer really trying to rub it in, arent ya pal?
                                                                                      heheheh

                                                                                      cheers

                                                                                      ...

                                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Gerry D <gerard_sr@...> wrote:
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > And where would one view this "webcast"?
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1030 From: Gerry D Date: 3/4/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Sat Nite RXR Webcast- Boxcabs and "coffee train" up next
                                                                                      OK, I installed the sucker, I don't trust these new
                                                                                      fangled thingies like messenger.

                                                                                      --- Imp Ster <iimpster@...> wrote:

                                                                                      > hi Gerry, i just sent you a ping on the Yahoo
                                                                                      > Messenger system, you
                                                                                      > should then see a link to the webcam, in either the
                                                                                      > IM frame itself
                                                                                      > (as a tool button) or you can also see it as a
                                                                                      > hot-linked 'status
                                                                                      > msg' next to my ID (if listed) on the main Messenger
                                                                                      > console.
                                                                                      > hope you will tune in, the boxcabs are working hard
                                                                                      > and i will be
                                                                                      > adding more cars in a moment, including 3 of those
                                                                                      > certain hoppers we
                                                                                      > know and love!
                                                                                      > (the others are hibernating out in the bus layout)
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > btw, i got a chance to view that pic you posted.
                                                                                      > with all the hoppers lined up.
                                                                                      > yer really trying to rub it in, arent ya pal?
                                                                                      > heheheh
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > cheers
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > ...
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Gerry D
                                                                                      > <gerard_sr@...> wrote:
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > And where would one view this "webcast"?
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >


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                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1031 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/5/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: notes on the Coffee Mine
                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      From: Imp Ster <iimpster@...>
                                                                                      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                      Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 9:11 PM
                                                                                      Subject: [vintageHO] notes on the Coffee Mine


                                                                                      > it all began with a classic AHM "Coal Mine" building located at the
                                                                                      > central dbl-slip location known as "SLC" in the Buss Ry system.
                                                                                      > that poor ol mine building went thru 'ell in the years past.
                                                                                      > once it was completely flattened apart and spent time in storage.
                                                                                      > later i had it back together, but during some roof repairs (on the Buss
                                                                                      > itself), i stepped thru the skylight and put a foot squarely on the
                                                                                      > poor thing, so that flattened it a SECOND time, along with a long-
                                                                                      > suffering edition of the "Brick Factory".
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > so eventualy i put them both back together, but this time i re-inforce
                                                                                      > every seam and corner with extra styrene "angle iron".
                                                                                      > as per AHM Scriptchure, the "Coal Mine" has 2 HOn2 1/2 (N gauge) tracks
                                                                                      > added, and a MiniTrain mine set, but as i havent yet found any reliable
                                                                                      > N scale motive power in Porter or Plymouth format, the mine spur is for
                                                                                      > display only at present time.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > anyway, as the mine is located conveniently near the Buss pantry, used
                                                                                      > coffee grounds are in plentiful supply.
                                                                                      > hence my need for massive "ore" and "slag" trains carrying all manner
                                                                                      > of grounds to and from the various points of industry.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > i have pretty much given up finding enough die-cast Varneys and Ulrich
                                                                                      > hoppers to make a decent train, so focused instead on building a good
                                                                                      > long train of the MDC and Tyco product.
                                                                                      > all my Tycos have been converted to metal wheels, most with KD sprung
                                                                                      > trucks, and i will eventualy do all the MDC shorty ores in KD wheels as
                                                                                      > well.
                                                                                      > there is absolutely nothing like the sound of a nice long train rolling
                                                                                      > at speed with "steel wheels on steel rails".
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > (and talk about a mirror polish on the rail head! - dont get me
                                                                                      > started.)

                                                                                      I guess I'd better not mention the Ulrch triple on the work bench right now
                                                                                      that came from another list member <G>.

                                                                                      I definitely second your thoughts on metal wheels though. Some months back
                                                                                      I pulled every single piece of rolling stock off the layout, and NOTHING
                                                                                      went back on until it had decent metal wheels. It's amazing what a
                                                                                      difference it makes. Even old Varneys run "like an eel in oil" (to steal a
                                                                                      phrase from the old Central Valley ads) with good wheels.

                                                                                      Don

                                                                                      don.dellmann@...
                                                                                      http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                      moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1032 From: Dave Slater Date: 3/5/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: WAS notes on the Coffee Mine now metl wheels.
                                                                                      I had to replace a couple of coupler spring last night, one car had metal wheels the other plastic. I notice the plastic had a buildup of crud right by the flange even though it had only been on the layout a month or so while the much older metal was nice and shiny.  I too am going to convert to all metal wheels.. Hopefully that will also cut down on track cleaning chores.
                                                                                      Now if SWMBO would quit smoking............
                                                                                      Dave S.


                                                                                      Don Dellmann wrote:

                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      From: Imp Ster <iimpster@...>
                                                                                      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                      Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 9:11 PM
                                                                                      Subject: [vintageHO] notes on the Coffee Mine


                                                                                      > it all began with a classic AHM "Coal Mine" building located at the
                                                                                      > central dbl-slip location known as "SLC" in the Buss Ry system.
                                                                                      > that poor ol mine building went thru 'ell in the years past.
                                                                                      > once it was completely flattened apart and spent time in storage.
                                                                                      > later i had it back together, but during some roof repairs (on the Buss
                                                                                      > itself), i stepped thru the skylight and put a foot squarely on the
                                                                                      > poor thing, so that flattened it a SECOND time, along with a long-
                                                                                      > suffering edition of the "Brick Factory".
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > so eventualy i put them both back together, but this time i re-inforce
                                                                                      > every seam and corner with extra styrene "angle iron".
                                                                                      > as per AHM Scriptchure, the "Coal Mine" has 2 HOn2 1/2 (N gauge) tracks
                                                                                      > added, and a MiniTrain mine set, but as i havent yet found any reliable
                                                                                      > N scale motive power in Porter or Plymouth format, the mine spur is for
                                                                                      > display only at present time.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > anyway, as the mine is located conveniently near the Buss pantry, used
                                                                                      > coffee grounds are in plentiful supply.
                                                                                      > hence my need for massive "ore" and "slag" trains carrying all manner
                                                                                      > of grounds to and from the various points of industry.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > i have pretty much given up finding enough die-cast Varneys and Ulrich
                                                                                      > hoppers to make a decent train, so focused instead on building a good
                                                                                      > long train of the MDC and Tyco product.
                                                                                      > all my Tycos have been converted to metal wheels, most with KD sprung
                                                                                      > trucks, and i will eventualy do all the MDC shorty ores in KD wheels as
                                                                                      > well.
                                                                                      > there is absolutely nothing like the sound of a nice long train rolling
                                                                                      > at speed with "steel wheels on steel rails".
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > (and talk about a mirror polish on the rail head! - dont get me
                                                                                      > started.)

                                                                                      I guess I'd better not mention the Ulrch triple on the work bench right now
                                                                                      that came from another list member <G>.

                                                                                      I definitely second your thoughts on metal wheels though.  Some months back
                                                                                      I pulled every single piece of rolling stock off the layout, and NOTHING
                                                                                      went back on until it had decent metal wheels.  It's amazing what a
                                                                                      difference it makes.   Even old Varneys run "like an eel in oil" (to steal a
                                                                                      phrase from the old Central Valley ads) with good wheels.

                                                                                      Don

                                                                                      don.dellmann@...
                                                                                      http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                      moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO


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                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1033 From: Frank Weed Date: 3/5/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: notes on the Coffee Mine
                                                                                      Imp Ster
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Can you send me a picture of the ore cars that you might want. I have several of the shorty w/metal frame that I think I got out of the 3 in 1 kits.  Also I've got a couple of the metal frame flats that you could use for the fish belly hoppers.
                                                                                       
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Send the info to busgrouches@...
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Thanks.
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1034 From: James B Date: 3/5/2006
                                                                                      Subject: 11th Annual Model Train Show March 12th Cedarburg, WI
                                                                                      <> For the eleventh consecutive year, the METRO Model Railroad Club of
                                                                                      Port Washington is hosting its annual railroad show and swap meet.
                                                                                      The event is scheduled for Sunday, March 12th at Circle B Recreation
                                                                                      on Highway 60 in Cedarburg. A new feature of the show this year will
                                                                                      be a model railroad that the young and the young at heart can operate.

                                                                                      The Lakeshore O-Gauge Railroaders will be bringing a Lionel layout
                                                                                      to the show and permitting anyone to run the locomotives, including
                                                                                      Thomas the Tank Engine, around the tracks. Kids can also fire
                                                                                      missiles from train cars, unload barrels and milk cans, and enjoy
                                                                                      visits from some of their favorite movie and TV characters, including
                                                                                      Buzz and Woody from Toy Story, Mike and Sulley from Monsters Inc.,
                                                                                      Nemo and his friends, and many more.
                                                                                      <> Five more model railroad clubs will show layouts in all scales
                                                                                      ranging from N gauge to #1 gauge at this year's show. The Cedar Creek
                                                                                      Central of Jackson will show its progress on a large HO layout with
                                                                                      many Midwestern scenes. West Bend's Kettle Moraine Ballast Scorchers
                                                                                      will bring their remarkable modular N scale layout, noted for its long
                                                                                      trains and the scenic depiction of the infamous Weyauwega derailment.
                                                                                      The Badgerland S Gaugers will show the classic American Flyer scale
                                                                                      trains as well as new S-scale trains that are currently available.<>
                                                                                      The West Bend, Jackson and Southern will bring many examples of G
                                                                                      scale equipment that is most frequently used to create outdoor garden
                                                                                      railroads, and will also display some #1 scale trains. The Grandkids
                                                                                      Railroad will be on hand with its dazzling display of lights and
                                                                                      sounds. METRO's own award-winning layout is being refurbished and
                                                                                      will be held out of the show this year.. <>

                                                                                      In addition, more than 50 tables of dealers and swappers will be
                                                                                      on hand to buy, sell and trade model railroad equipment, both new and
                                                                                      used. Some notable dealers are Don Manlick of DM Custom Decals who
                                                                                      will be selling his GB&W and other decals, NEW Hobbies of Green Bay,
                                                                                      Cannonball Models of Madison that specializes in N scale, Enginehouse
                                                                                      Services of Green Bay, Mullet River & Southern Hobbies, Setco Trains,
                                                                                      The Toy Train Depot with a huge selection of railroad video's, as well
                                                                                      as many other dealers. The many club members and dealers on hand will
                                                                                      be able to help modelers young and old with layout design, problem
                                                                                      solving, and scenic hints. <>

                                                                                      Attendees can sign up for door prizes which include railroading
                                                                                      books and one year subscriptions to Kalmbach Publishing's magazine
                                                                                      Model Railroader. <>
                                                                                      Membership in all of the clubs showing is open; attendees can talk to
                                                                                      club members at the show for membership details. METRO can also be
                                                                                      found on the web at www.metrorrclub.org. <> Show hours are 10 a.m. to
                                                                                      4 p.m. Admission is by a $2 donation for adults; as always, children
                                                                                      under 12 are admitted free when accompanied by an adult. Commercial
                                                                                      sponsors of this year's show include Ohana Ambulance, Kalmbach
                                                                                      Publishing, and Tires Unlimited Automotive Services.


                                                                                      --
                                                                                      James Bartelt
                                                                                      jimbartelt@...

                                                                                      Jim's Railroad & Great Lakes Photo's
                                                                                      http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumList?u=1751079

                                                                                      METRO RR Club
                                                                                      http://www.metrorrclub.org

                                                                                      METRO RR CLUB SPRING SHOW 2006
                                                                                      http://members.trainorders.com/scrimjimmy/spring.html
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1035 From: Jack Priller Date: 3/5/2006
                                                                                      Subject: PSM overhead on eBay
                                                                                      Meant to post this when I listed it, but was having computer problems
                                                                                      and I forgot. Item 6039742901 is the better part of 4 kits, if anyone
                                                                                      is interested.

                                                                                      Jack Priller
                                                                                      aka
                                                                                      Ye Olde Trolleynut
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1036 From: Glenn Date: 3/5/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: notes on the Coffee Mine
                                                                                      I think that the "Ore Cars" in the 3 in 1 kits were the "sand & gravel hoppers" with the huge (yet prototypical--I saw a picture in a Car Builders' Cyclopedia) handwheels.  The original metal ones had a linkage that actually operated the doors.  This as opposed to the "Lake Superior" ore cars available with either rib or panel sides from MDC and rib-sided only from Varney/
                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      From: Frank Weed
                                                                                      Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 7:46 AM
                                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] notes on the Coffee Mine

                                                                                      Imp Ster
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Can you send me a picture of the ore cars that you might want. I have several of the shorty w/metal frame that I think I got out of the 3 in 1 kits.  Also I've got a couple of the metal frame flats that you could use for the fish belly hoppers.
                                                                                       
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Send the info to busgrouches@...
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Thanks.
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1037 From: Gerry D Date: 3/5/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: notes on the Coffee Mine
                                                                                      Hi Frank,
                                                                                      I think the linkage is on the parts tree for some of
                                                                                      the plastic models. I have three of the all metal
                                                                                      ones, two in kit form and one completed. Two of them
                                                                                      are the MDC roadname in reefer yellow.

                                                                                      The "ore cars" were actually the kit #1501, ore cars
                                                                                      with extended tops made from the sides of the 26'
                                                                                      flat/gondola.

                                                                                      see: http://ourpage.com/3in1/1501.pdf

                                                                                      I just opened # 1508 and the parts are on the tree to
                                                                                      make them operational like the original, but the
                                                                                      instructions don't cover how to do it. I'll scann the
                                                                                      instructions and post them at: http://ourpage.com/3in1
                                                                                      in a few min.

                                                                                      Cordially,
                                                                                      Gerry
                                                                                      --- Glenn <glenn476@...> wrote:

                                                                                      > I think that the "Ore Cars" in the 3 in 1 kits were
                                                                                      > the "sand & gravel hoppers" with the huge (yet
                                                                                      > prototypical--I saw a picture in a Car Builders'
                                                                                      > Cyclopedia) handwheels. The original metal ones had
                                                                                      > a linkage that actually operated the doors. This as
                                                                                      > opposed to the "Lake Superior" ore cars available
                                                                                      > with either rib or panel sides from MDC and
                                                                                      > rib-sided only from Varney/
                                                                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      > From: Frank Weed
                                                                                      > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      > Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 7:46 AM
                                                                                      > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] notes on the Coffee Mine
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Imp Ster
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Can you send me a picture of the ore cars that you
                                                                                      > might want. I have several of the shorty w/metal
                                                                                      > frame that I think I got out of the 3 in 1 kits.
                                                                                      > Also I've got a couple of the metal frame flats that
                                                                                      > you could use for the fish belly hoppers.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Send the info to busgrouches@...
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Thanks.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > SPONSORED LINKS Ho scale G scale model train G
                                                                                      > scale train
                                                                                      > Ho scale model train Ho scale trains
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
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                                                                                      > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an
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                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1038 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/5/2006
                                                                                      Subject: need manual for MRC TrainPower 5 "anteek" powerpack
                                                                                      greets all -

                                                                                      a pal gave me an old Model Rectifier Corp "Train Power 5" unit that has
                                                                                      a nifty 'walk-around' control which uses common phone-line connector.
                                                                                      (gee, wotta concept.)

                                                                                      i'm posting this query here because this pack surely qualifies
                                                                                      as "vintage" by now.
                                                                                      checked MRC's site for any documentation, no luck, looks like they are
                                                                                      going the Walther's route with "diversification", and devil take the
                                                                                      hindmost if you need older product documentation.

                                                                                      (btw, among the other great 'heirloom' products i am collecting for
                                                                                      my "Psuedo-Northlandz" legacy, are the Golden Throttle-Packs, analog,
                                                                                      non-transistorised (not that theres anything wrong with that... hah)
                                                                                      featuring the beefy old taper-wound rheostats.)

                                                                                      so anyway, me pal gives me this shiny silver solid-state #5 with a
                                                                                      slight smirk.
                                                                                      when i get it home, i begin to understand why the smirk.
                                                                                      on the back there is evidently a bi-polar power supply for lighting or
                                                                                      signals.
                                                                                      terminals are numbered 1 Lamp, 2-, 3+, 4-.
                                                                                      it has an OEM jumper bar screwed in place over terminals 3+ and 4-.

                                                                                      i'm kinda scared to power it up without knowing more.
                                                                                      so, anybody got any paper or the skinny on this crate?

                                                                                      if i can get it to work without frying the poor dainty lil transistors,
                                                                                      i'd like to try it on the webcast trains to see if i can get them to
                                                                                      creep slow enough for the camera without heating up the armatures.
                                                                                      and, if i can figger out the bi-polar thingy, would like to use that
                                                                                      for bi-polar LEDs and mebbee a TwinT detection experiment.

                                                                                      any tech info on this box would be most appreciated.

                                                                                      cheers, da imp

                                                                                      ...
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1039 From: Gerry D Date: 3/5/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: need manual for MRC TrainPower 5 "anteek" powerpack
                                                                                      WOW!
                                                                                      is the phone type plug the one with four 1/2" prongs?
                                                                                      heh heh heh...

                                                                                      If you have to, you can forward it to me and I'll
                                                                                      check it out for you.

                                                                                      Or, here's a mention of one, you might try and contact
                                                                                      the poster...
                                                                                      http://www.trainboard.com/ultimatebb.php/ubb/get_topic/f/9/t/004693.html

                                                                                      Gerry

                                                                                      --- Imp Ster <iimpster@...> wrote:

                                                                                      > greets all -
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > a pal gave me an old Model Rectifier Corp "Train
                                                                                      > Power 5" unit that has
                                                                                      > a nifty 'walk-around' control which uses common
                                                                                      > phone-line connector.
                                                                                      > (gee, wotta concept.)
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > i'm posting this query here because this pack surely
                                                                                      > qualifies
                                                                                      > as "vintage" by now.
                                                                                      > checked MRC's site for any documentation, no luck,
                                                                                      > looks like they are
                                                                                      > going the Walther's route with "diversification",
                                                                                      > and devil take the
                                                                                      > hindmost if you need older product documentation.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > (btw, among the other great 'heirloom' products i am
                                                                                      > collecting for
                                                                                      > my "Psuedo-Northlandz" legacy, are the Golden
                                                                                      > Throttle-Packs, analog,
                                                                                      > non-transistorised (not that theres anything wrong
                                                                                      > with that... hah)
                                                                                      > featuring the beefy old taper-wound rheostats.)
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > so anyway, me pal gives me this shiny silver
                                                                                      > solid-state #5 with a
                                                                                      > slight smirk.
                                                                                      > when i get it home, i begin to understand why the
                                                                                      > smirk.
                                                                                      > on the back there is evidently a bi-polar power
                                                                                      > supply for lighting or
                                                                                      > signals.
                                                                                      > terminals are numbered 1 Lamp, 2-, 3+, 4-.
                                                                                      > it has an OEM jumper bar screwed in place over
                                                                                      > terminals 3+ and 4-.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > i'm kinda scared to power it up without knowing
                                                                                      > more.
                                                                                      > so, anybody got any paper or the skinny on this
                                                                                      > crate?
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > if i can get it to work without frying the poor
                                                                                      > dainty lil transistors,
                                                                                      > i'd like to try it on the webcast trains to see if i
                                                                                      > can get them to
                                                                                      > creep slow enough for the camera without heating up
                                                                                      > the armatures.
                                                                                      > and, if i can figger out the bi-polar thingy, would
                                                                                      > like to use that
                                                                                      > for bi-polar LEDs and mebbee a TwinT detection
                                                                                      > experiment.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > any tech info on this box would be most appreciated.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > cheers, da imp
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > ...
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >


                                                                                      __________________________________________________
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                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1040 From: Glenn Date: 3/5/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: need manual for MRC TrainPower 5 "anteek" powerpack
                                                                                      I have one of those--liked it--but it is in storage right now--might have it accessible in a couple of months--
                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      From: Imp Ster
                                                                                      Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 9:37 PM
                                                                                      Subject: [vintageHO] need manual for MRC TrainPower 5 "anteek" powerpack

                                                                                      greets all -

                                                                                      a pal gave me an old Model Rectifier Corp "Train Power 5" unit that has
                                                                                      a nifty 'walk-around' control which uses common phone-line connector.
                                                                                      (gee, wotta concept.)

                                                                                      i'm posting this query here because this pack surely qualifies
                                                                                      as "vintage" by now.
                                                                                      checked MRC's site for any documentation, no luck, looks like they are
                                                                                      going the Walther's route with "diversification", and devil take the
                                                                                      hindmost if you need older product documentation.

                                                                                      (btw, among the other great 'heirloom' products i am collecting for
                                                                                      my "Psuedo-Northlandz" legacy, are the Golden Throttle-Packs, analog,
                                                                                      non-transistorised (not that theres anything wrong with that... hah)
                                                                                      featuring the beefy old taper-wound rheostats.)

                                                                                      so anyway, me pal gives me this shiny silver solid-state #5 with a
                                                                                      slight smirk.
                                                                                      when i get it home, i begin to understand why the smirk.
                                                                                      on the back there is evidently a bi-polar power supply for lighting or
                                                                                      signals.
                                                                                      terminals are numbered 1 Lamp, 2-, 3+, 4-.
                                                                                      it has an OEM jumper bar screwed in place over terminals 3+ and 4-.

                                                                                      i'm kinda scared to power it up without knowing more.
                                                                                      so, anybody got any paper or the skinny on this crate?

                                                                                      if i can get it to work without frying the poor dainty lil transistors,
                                                                                      i'd like to try it on the webcast trains to see if i can get them to
                                                                                      creep slow enough for the camera without heating up the armatures.
                                                                                      and, if i can figger out the bi-polar thingy, would like to use that
                                                                                      for bi-polar LEDs and mebbee a TwinT detection experiment.

                                                                                      any tech info on this box would be most appreciated.

                                                                                      cheers, da imp

                                                                                      ...



                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1041 From: takefive247 Date: 3/6/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Eight Ball Mogul
                                                                                      Hello
                                                                                      I have what I believe is a brass Mantua Eight Ball Mogul I want to
                                                                                      restore. Doesn't need much more then the fiber coupling plate and a
                                                                                      good cleaning. Can someone help me out with a few answers?
                                                                                      First is an assembly instruction sheet. Anyone have one? I am a bit
                                                                                      confused because it looks like a factory paint job but assembled
                                                                                      incorrectly where the cab attaches, making the boiler be on a slope.
                                                                                      Second, when were these manufactured? I have it being introduced in
                                                                                      1942 and available at least through 1947 but brass wasn't available so
                                                                                      was it made earlier or later?
                                                                                      Third, how do I give it a good cleaning with out destroying the
                                                                                      paint? Has a lot (some) lint and hair in it. Hate to take it apart, it
                                                                                      looks so original.
                                                                                      And lastly, for now, would anyone have an original fiber coupler
                                                                                      plate, know where I could get one or some material to make one?
                                                                                      Thamks
                                                                                      Bill
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1042 From: Larry Date: 3/6/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Eight Ball Mogul
                                                                                      You can find assembly instructions and reference information for
                                                                                      Mantua/Tyco at this link.
                                                                                      http://www.hoseeker.net/otherhotrains.html
                                                                                      Larry

                                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <takefive@...> wrote:
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Hello
                                                                                      > I have what I believe is a brass Mantua Eight Ball Mogul I want
                                                                                      to
                                                                                      > restore. Doesn't need much more then the fiber coupling plate and a
                                                                                      > good cleaning. Can someone help me out with a few answers?
                                                                                      > First is an assembly instruction sheet. Anyone have one? I am a
                                                                                      bit
                                                                                      > confused because it looks like a factory paint job but assembled
                                                                                      > incorrectly where the cab attaches, making the boiler be on a
                                                                                      slope.
                                                                                      > Second, when were these manufactured? I have it being introduced
                                                                                      in
                                                                                      > 1942 and available at least through 1947 but brass wasn't available
                                                                                      so
                                                                                      > was it made earlier or later?
                                                                                      > Third, how do I give it a good cleaning with out destroying the
                                                                                      > paint? Has a lot (some) lint and hair in it. Hate to take it apart,
                                                                                      it
                                                                                      > looks so original.
                                                                                      > And lastly, for now, would anyone have an original fiber coupler
                                                                                      > plate, know where I could get one or some material to make one?
                                                                                      > Thamks
                                                                                      > Bill
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1043 From: takefive247 Date: 3/6/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Eight Ball Mogul
                                                                                      Thanks Larry,
                                                                                      Nice site but it doesn't go back far enough. Unless I'm just not
                                                                                      seeing it I need the instructions that are about 40 yrs older.
                                                                                      Bill

                                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Larry" <seekingho@...> wrote:
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > You can find assembly instructions and reference information for
                                                                                      > Mantua/Tyco at this link.
                                                                                      > http://www.hoseeker.net/otherhotrains.html
                                                                                      > Larry
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <takefive@> wrote:
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > Hello
                                                                                      > > I have what I believe is a brass Mantua Eight Ball Mogul I want
                                                                                      > to
                                                                                      > > restore. Doesn't need much more then the fiber coupling plate and a
                                                                                      > > good cleaning. Can someone help me out with a few answers?
                                                                                      > > First is an assembly instruction sheet. Anyone have one? I am a
                                                                                      > bit
                                                                                      > > confused because it looks like a factory paint job but assembled
                                                                                      > > incorrectly where the cab attaches, making the boiler be on a
                                                                                      > slope.
                                                                                      > > Second, when were these manufactured? I have it being introduced
                                                                                      > in
                                                                                      > > 1942 and available at least through 1947 but brass wasn't available
                                                                                      > so
                                                                                      > > was it made earlier or later?
                                                                                      > > Third, how do I give it a good cleaning with out destroying the
                                                                                      > > paint? Has a lot (some) lint and hair in it. Hate to take it apart,
                                                                                      > it
                                                                                      > > looks so original.
                                                                                      > > And lastly, for now, would anyone have an original fiber coupler
                                                                                      > > plate, know where I could get one or some material to make one?
                                                                                      > > Thamks
                                                                                      > > Bill
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1044 From: takefive247 Date: 3/6/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Eight Ball Mogul
                                                                                      Thanks Larry,
                                                                                      Nice site but it doesn't go back far enough. Unless I'm just not
                                                                                      seeing it I need the instructions that are about 40 yrs older.
                                                                                      Bill

                                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Larry" <seekingho@...> wrote:
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > You can find assembly instructions and reference information for
                                                                                      > Mantua/Tyco at this link.
                                                                                      > http://www.hoseeker.net/otherhotrains.html
                                                                                      > Larry
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <takefive@> wrote:
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > Hello
                                                                                      > > I have what I believe is a brass Mantua Eight Ball Mogul I want
                                                                                      > to
                                                                                      > > restore. Doesn't need much more then the fiber coupling plate and a
                                                                                      > > good cleaning. Can someone help me out with a few answers?
                                                                                      > > First is an assembly instruction sheet. Anyone have one? I am a
                                                                                      > bit
                                                                                      > > confused because it looks like a factory paint job but assembled
                                                                                      > > incorrectly where the cab attaches, making the boiler be on a
                                                                                      > slope.
                                                                                      > > Second, when were these manufactured? I have it being introduced
                                                                                      > in
                                                                                      > > 1942 and available at least through 1947 but brass wasn't available
                                                                                      > so
                                                                                      > > was it made earlier or later?
                                                                                      > > Third, how do I give it a good cleaning with out destroying the
                                                                                      > > paint? Has a lot (some) lint and hair in it. Hate to take it apart,
                                                                                      > it
                                                                                      > > looks so original.
                                                                                      > > And lastly, for now, would anyone have an original fiber coupler
                                                                                      > > plate, know where I could get one or some material to make one?
                                                                                      > > Thamks
                                                                                      > > Bill
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1045 From: Frank Weed Date: 3/6/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: notes on the Coffee Mine
                                                                                      Gerry
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Thanks for the info. That is what I was looking for. Now maybe I can finish up what I started 20 years ago. Well, maybe not that long ago. Thanks again.
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Frank
                                                                                      MP 254 BNSF Lampasas Sub
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1046 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 3/6/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Eight Ball Mogul

                                                                                      Bill-go to www.yardbirdtrains.com, look under locomotive specs,and you will find two sheets of info for your 8-Ball.  Not sure if it will give you exactly what you are looking for, but it is a start.   The site owner, Dan Bush, also restores these locomotives, so you may want to contact him directly for additional info and possibly the parts you need. (Contact info is on this site.)

                                                                                      I have one that was unpainted (evidentially they came both ways); the boiler and cab sit pretty square to each other.  Look at the drawings-maybe someone previously put different cylinders, or a different cab on yours, causing the “skew” you refer to???  At any rate, both versions were kits to the best of my knowledge.  I believe they went into production in the late 30’s; as you stated, not produced during WW II  (Mantua turned out small control motors for the gov’t.), and for about two years after the war some were run off while Mantua tooled up for their die-cast line.  There were three such locos produced-the Belle  (4-4-0), 8-Ball (2-6-0), and a little 0-4-0 switcher-which was hardly more than a brass tube for boiler, some cast accessories (stack, domes, and smokebox front) and a small brass turning for an air pump.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      You will need to at least partially disassemble (remove chassis, motor, etc.) to clean it.  I have successfully cleaned many locomotives with a weak dishwashing solution and a soft bristle brush to coax the dirt out of the crevices.  Use a blow dryer to get it all dried off good.  Be careful if you clean the wheels-water and solvents play havoc on the insulation around the driver tires. Best to use a clean, lint-free cotton cloth to just wipe the mechanism down, and relube with a good quality oil (I use Labelle #108).

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Hope this helps-good luck and enjoy!  Jerry

                                                                                       


                                                                                      From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of takefive247
                                                                                      Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 6:18 AM
                                                                                      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      Subject: [vintageHO] Eight Ball Mogul

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Hello
                                                                                          I have what I believe is a brass Mantua Eight Ball Mogul I want to
                                                                                      restore. Doesn't need much more then the fiber coupling plate and a
                                                                                      good cleaning. Can someone help me out with a few answers?
                                                                                         First is an assembly instruction sheet. Anyone have one? I am a bit
                                                                                      confused because it looks like a factory paint job but assembled
                                                                                      incorrectly where the cab attaches, making the boiler be on a  slope.
                                                                                         Second, when were these manufactured? I have it being introduced in
                                                                                      1942 and available at least through 1947 but brass wasn't available so
                                                                                      was it made earlier or later?
                                                                                          Third, how do I give it a good cleaning with out destroying the
                                                                                      paint? Has a lot (some) lint and hair in it. Hate to take it apart, it
                                                                                      looks so original.
                                                                                          And lastly, for now, would anyone have an original fiber coupler
                                                                                      plate, know where I could get one or some material to make one?
                                                                                      Thamks
                                                                                      Bill  
                                                                                         





                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1047 From: Ray Hobin Date: 3/6/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Eight Ball Mogul
                                                                                      On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 Jerry Garteiser" <jerryg@...> wrote:

                                                                                      >I have one that was unpainted (evidentially they came both ways); the boiler
                                                                                      >and cab sit pretty square to each other. Look at the drawings-maybe someone
                                                                                      >previously put different cylinders, or a different cab on yours, causing the
                                                                                      >"skew" you refer to??? At any rate, both versions were kits to the best of
                                                                                      >my knowledge. I believe they went into production in the late 30's; as you
                                                                                      >stated, not produced during WW II (Mantua turned out small control motors
                                                                                      >for the gov't.), and for about two years after the war some were run off
                                                                                      >while Mantua tooled up for their die-cast line. There were three such locos
                                                                                      >produced-the Belle (4-4-0), 8-Ball (2-6-0), and a little 0-4-0
                                                                                      >switcher

                                                                                      In the very late 50s, based upon an article in RMC, I kit bashed a Mantra
                                                                                      Mogul with the Mantra Belle of the 80s (4-4-0). Looking at it today in my
                                                                                      display case, it seems both awkward and crude but it was my first attempt
                                                                                      at working with brass. RMC published a pix of it in the May 1971 RMC, see
                                                                                      page 33 if you have that issue.

                                                                                      I ordered all of the parts from Klein in Baltimore so they were still
                                                                                      available in the 1959-60 era. Some of the "additives" were Seller soft
                                                                                      castings. I will admit though that I got a bit carried away and innovative
                                                                                      and certainly un-prototypical with respect to installing a Kestrel steam
                                                                                      chest.














                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >You will need to at least partially disassemble (remove chassis, motor,
                                                                                      >etc.) to clean it. I have successfully cleaned many locomotives with a weak
                                                                                      >dishwashing solution and a soft bristle brush to coax the dirt out of the
                                                                                      >crevices. Use a blow dryer to get it all dried off good. Be careful if you
                                                                                      >clean the wheels-water and solvents play havoc on the insulation around the
                                                                                      >driver tires. Best to use a clean, lint-free cotton cloth to just wipe the
                                                                                      >mechanism down, and relube with a good quality oil (I use Labelle #108).
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >Hope this helps-good luck and enjoy! Jerry
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > _____
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                                                                      >Of takefive247
                                                                                      >Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 6:18 AM
                                                                                      >To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      >Subject: [vintageHO] Eight Ball Mogul
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >Hello
                                                                                      > I have what I believe is a brass Mantua Eight Ball Mogul I want to
                                                                                      >restore. Doesn't need much more then the fiber coupling plate and a
                                                                                      >good cleaning. Can someone help me out with a few answers?
                                                                                      > First is an assembly instruction sheet. Anyone have one? I am a bit
                                                                                      >confused because it looks like a factory paint job but assembled
                                                                                      >incorrectly where the cab attaches, making the boiler be on a slope.
                                                                                      > Second, when were these manufactured? I have it being introduced in
                                                                                      >1942 and available at least through 1947 but brass wasn't available so
                                                                                      >was it made earlier or later?
                                                                                      > Third, how do I give it a good cleaning with out destroying the
                                                                                      >paint? Has a lot (some) lint and hair in it. Hate to take it apart, it
                                                                                      >looks so original.
                                                                                      > And lastly, for now, would anyone have an original fiber coupler
                                                                                      >plate, know where I could get one or some material to make one?
                                                                                      >Thamks
                                                                                      >Bill
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
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                                                                                      >rain&w3=G+scale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&c=5&s=105&.
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                                                                                      Ray Hobin
                                                                                      NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX
                                                                                      Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1048 From: Ray Hobin Date: 3/6/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Eight Ball Mogul
                                                                                      Sorry for recent post's very poor editing:

                                                                                      Ray Hobin.


                                                                                      On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 Jerry Garteiser" <jerryg@...> wrote:

                                                                                      >I have one that was unpainted (evidentially they came both ways); the boiler
                                                                                      >and cab sit pretty square to each other. Look at the drawings-maybe someone
                                                                                      >previously put different cylinders, or a different cab on yours, causing the
                                                                                      >"skew" you refer to??? At any rate, both versions were kits to the best of
                                                                                      >my knowledge. I believe they went into production in the late 30's; as you
                                                                                      >stated, not produced during WW II (Mantua turned out small control motors
                                                                                      >for the gov't.), and for about two years after the war some were run off
                                                                                      >while Mantua tooled up for their die-cast line. There were three such locos
                                                                                      >produced-the Belle (4-4-0), 8-Ball (2-6-0), and a little 0-4-0
                                                                                      >switcher

                                                                                      In the very late 50s, based upon an article in RMC, I kit bashed a Mantra
                                                                                      Mogul with the Mantra Belle of the 80s (4-4-0). Looking at it today in my
                                                                                      display case, it seems both awkward and crude but it was my first attempt
                                                                                      at working with brass. RMC published a pix of it in the May 1971 RMC, see
                                                                                      page 33 if you have that issue.

                                                                                      I ordered all of the parts from Klein in Baltimore so they were still
                                                                                      available in the 1959-60 era. Some of the "additives" were Seller soft
                                                                                      castings. I will admit though that I got a bit carried away and innovative
                                                                                      and certainly un-prototypical with respect to installing a Kestrel steam
                                                                                      chest.



                                                                                      Ray Hobin
                                                                                      NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX
                                                                                      Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1049 From: Larry Date: 3/6/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Eight Ball Mogul
                                                                                      Hello Bill

                                                                                      There is a 2-6-0 Mogul posted at the site.(not sure if it is the
                                                                                      eight ball). There is drawings of parts and and the part numbers
                                                                                      listed. However this is not an explosion view of this engine. Go
                                                                                      to the Mantua section of the site. Listed under steam engines look
                                                                                      for 203 - 2-6-0 1952 Mogul Page 1 & 2. I have several 1940's and
                                                                                      early 1950's mantua publications and this is the closest to an
                                                                                      assembly diagram in my collection. I also forgot to date the Mogul
                                                                                      links to the pictures. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.
                                                                                      I'll learn to type and proof read some day. I did look in a 1942
                                                                                      Mantua handbook and found an advertisement for this engine and
                                                                                      mechanism. I will post this ad under Mantua Reference Information
                                                                                      in a day or so. Oh there is an advertisement for this engine
                                                                                      already listed under Brochures 1953 Page 14.
                                                                                      http://www.hoseeker.net/otherhotrains.html
                                                                                      The 1941 engine looks the same as the 1953. But I maybe wrong about
                                                                                      about this.

                                                                                      Hope this helps:
                                                                                      Larry

                                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <takefive@...> wrote:
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Thanks Larry,
                                                                                      > Nice site but it doesn't go back far enough. Unless I'm just not
                                                                                      > seeing it I need the instructions that are about 40 yrs older.
                                                                                      > Bill
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Larry" <seekingho@> wrote:
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > You can find assembly instructions and reference information for
                                                                                      > > Mantua/Tyco at this link.
                                                                                      > > http://www.hoseeker.net/otherhotrains.html
                                                                                      > > Larry
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <takefive@>
                                                                                      wrote:
                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                      > > > Hello
                                                                                      > > > I have what I believe is a brass Mantua Eight Ball Mogul I
                                                                                      want
                                                                                      > > to
                                                                                      > > > restore. Doesn't need much more then the fiber coupling plate
                                                                                      and a
                                                                                      > > > good cleaning. Can someone help me out with a few answers?
                                                                                      > > > First is an assembly instruction sheet. Anyone have one? I
                                                                                      am a
                                                                                      > > bit
                                                                                      > > > confused because it looks like a factory paint job but
                                                                                      assembled
                                                                                      > > > incorrectly where the cab attaches, making the boiler be on a
                                                                                      > > slope.
                                                                                      > > > Second, when were these manufactured? I have it being
                                                                                      introduced
                                                                                      > > in
                                                                                      > > > 1942 and available at least through 1947 but brass wasn't
                                                                                      available
                                                                                      > > so
                                                                                      > > > was it made earlier or later?
                                                                                      > > > Third, how do I give it a good cleaning with out
                                                                                      destroying the
                                                                                      > > > paint? Has a lot (some) lint and hair in it. Hate to take it
                                                                                      apart,
                                                                                      > > it
                                                                                      > > > looks so original.
                                                                                      > > > And lastly, for now, would anyone have an original fiber
                                                                                      coupler
                                                                                      > > > plate, know where I could get one or some material to make one?
                                                                                      > > > Thamks
                                                                                      > > > Bill
                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1050 From: erieberk Date: 3/6/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Eight Ball Mogul
                                                                                      Hello Bill, The earliest I can trace the Mantua Eight Ball Mogul
                                                                                      back to is 1940. Neither one of my 1938 or '39 catalogs show it, but
                                                                                      I have a Mantua sales flyer dated 1940 that includes this engine. My
                                                                                      1946 and 1947 Mantua catalogs have it as being a "new model", meaning
                                                                                      that they had improved it from the pre-War models with a new die-cast
                                                                                      frame, new die-cast retainer, new die-cast pilot and new die-cast
                                                                                      arch-bar tender trucks, etc. My Mantua Replacement Parts Catalog
                                                                                      (1952) and my Mantua Cyclopedia (1953) both still have it listed, but
                                                                                      I'm missing a number of catalogs after that date and my later ones do
                                                                                      not show it. They were not produced during the War, as Mantua was
                                                                                      geared up for producing small parts for the government, for the war
                                                                                      effort, just as Varney and others did.
                                                                                      \
                                                                                      These engines came in kit form only (the Mogul was $29.50, kit price -
                                                                                      - only) and as far as I know, came bare metal to be painted by the
                                                                                      modeler. The last part of the instructions in the Mantua
                                                                                      Construction & Operating Manual detailing how to build the Reading
                                                                                      Atlantic and Pacific type engines covers painting the models, which
                                                                                      in the case of the Eight-Ball Mogul, came with gold striping decals.
                                                                                      Not sure about the metal used on the pre-War models, but as I seem to
                                                                                      recall the were brass. The post-War models I have (Reading Pacific
                                                                                      and Atlantic) both have formed sheet brass boilers, etc.
                                                                                      \
                                                                                      Unless you're a real stickler for authenticity right down to the
                                                                                      drawbar, I'd suggest just using a piece of Walthers sheet styrene
                                                                                      plastic and making a replacement. Can't help you with an assembly
                                                                                      sheet for the Mogul, but I can send you a couple of copies of (1) the
                                                                                      complete parts list -- with all part numbers and (2) an exploded view
                                                                                      of each part (w/their numbers), as the next best thing if it will
                                                                                      help. Email me off line if this will help at <
                                                                                      erieberk@... >. Regards, Ray
                                                                                      \
                                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <takefive@...> wrote:
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Hello
                                                                                      > I have what I believe is a brass Mantua Eight Ball Mogul I want
                                                                                      to
                                                                                      > restore. Doesn't need much more then the fiber coupling plate and a
                                                                                      > good cleaning. Can someone help me out with a few answers?
                                                                                      > First is an assembly instruction sheet. Anyone have one? I am a
                                                                                      bit
                                                                                      > confused because it looks like a factory paint job but assembled
                                                                                      > incorrectly where the cab attaches, making the boiler be on a
                                                                                      slope.
                                                                                      > Second, when were these manufactured? I have it being introduced
                                                                                      in
                                                                                      > 1942 and available at least through 1947 but brass wasn't available
                                                                                      so
                                                                                      > was it made earlier or later?
                                                                                      > Third, how do I give it a good cleaning with out destroying the
                                                                                      > paint? Has a lot (some) lint and hair in it. Hate to take it apart,
                                                                                      it
                                                                                      > looks so original.
                                                                                      > And lastly, for now, would anyone have an original fiber coupler
                                                                                      > plate, know where I could get one or some material to make one?
                                                                                      > Thamks
                                                                                      > Bill
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1051 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/6/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: manual for MRC "anteek" powerpack
                                                                                      thanks for the lead, Gerry, i sent the guy an email.
                                                                                      here's hoping he takes the bait!

                                                                                      Glenn, thanks for the reply
                                                                                      - if you come across the manual, give me a shout.
                                                                                      i dont really need the whole ball of wax, just some idea of what to
                                                                                      do about that ding-dang jumper bar!

                                                                                      cheers

                                                                                      ...



                                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Gerry D <gerard_sr@...> wrote:
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > WOW!
                                                                                      > is the phone type plug the one with four 1/2" prongs?
                                                                                      > heh heh heh...
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > If you have to, you can forward it to me and I'll
                                                                                      > check it out for you.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Or, here's a mention of one, you might try and contact
                                                                                      > the poster...
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      http://www.trainboard.com/ultimatebb.php/ubb/get_topic/f/9/t/004693.ht
                                                                                      ml
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Gerry
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > --- Imp Ster <iimpster@...> wrote:
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > > greets all -
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > a pal gave me an old Model Rectifier Corp "Train
                                                                                      > > Power 5" unit
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1052 From: Glenn Date: 3/6/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Eight Ball Mogul
                                                                                      Bill--if you don't fine the fiber plate, send me an SSAE (Glenn Joesten, 3825 Pruett Dr. Yreka, CA 96097-9708) and I'll trace one for you.  Some PC board stock should be fine for making one. THe pin can be replaced with a screw.
                                                                                       
                                                                                      I recall it was available before WWII--possibly 1939 or 40.  Many parts are common with the "Belle of the Eighties" 4-4-0. As far as I know it was not offered painted--there may have been a bottle of paint in the kit. Check the cab mount--I think there is a tab on the front of the cab that should be inside the boiler--soundl like it is on top of the boiler on yours.
                                                                                       
                                                                                      If you have "Zamak Rot" in yours--get the really thin CA and flow it into the cracks. gj
                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 4:17 AM
                                                                                      Subject: [vintageHO] Eight Ball Mogul

                                                                                      Hello
                                                                                          I have what I believe is a brass Mantua Eight Ball Mogul I want to
                                                                                      restore. Doesn't need much more then the fiber coupling plate and a
                                                                                      good cleaning. Can someone help me out with a few answers?
                                                                                         First is an assembly instruction sheet. Anyone have one? I am a bit
                                                                                      confused because it looks like a factory paint job but assembled
                                                                                      incorrectly where the cab attaches, making the boiler be on a  slope.
                                                                                         Second, when were these manufactured? I have it being introduced in
                                                                                      1942 and available at least through 1947 but brass wasn't available so
                                                                                      was it made earlier or later?
                                                                                          Third, how do I give it a good cleaning with out destroying the
                                                                                      paint? Has a lot (some) lint and hair in it. Hate to take it apart, it
                                                                                      looks so original.
                                                                                          And lastly, for now, would anyone have an original fiber coupler
                                                                                      plate, know where I could get one or some material to make one?
                                                                                      Thamks
                                                                                      Bill  
                                                                                         




                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1053 From: Glenn Date: 3/6/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Eight Ball Mogul
                                                                                      Actually, there were three 0-4-0's--the original one was the "Goat"--a camelback based on a Reading A-5, the "Busy Bee", a side tanker, and the "Mighty Mite", a conventional switcher that had the die cast cab that wound up  on the "Shifter".
                                                                                       
                                                                                      There were also three "road locos", all based on Reading prototypes.  A Pacific and Atlantic, that were produces after the war, and a 2-8-0 that did not come back after the war.  I'm looking for the atlantic--have the other two as well as the 3 switchers.
                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                      From: Ray Hobin
                                                                                      Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 11:53 AM
                                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Eight Ball Mogul

                                                                                      Sorry for recent post's very poor editing:

                                                                                      Ray Hobin.


                                                                                      On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 Jerry Garteiser" <jerryg@...> wrote:

                                                                                      >I have one that was unpainted (evidentially they came both ways); the boiler
                                                                                      >and cab sit pretty square to each other.  Look at the drawings-maybe someone
                                                                                      >previously put different cylinders, or a different cab on yours, causing the
                                                                                      >"skew" you refer to???  At any rate, both versions were kits to the best of
                                                                                      >my knowledge.  I believe they went into production in the late 30's; as you
                                                                                      >stated, not produced during WW II  (Mantua turned out small control motors
                                                                                      >for the gov't.), and for about two years after the war some were run off
                                                                                      >while Mantua tooled up for their die-cast line.  There were three such locos
                                                                                      >produced-the Belle  (4-4-0), 8-Ball (2-6-0), and a little 0-4-0
                                                                                      >switcher

                                                                                      In the very late 50s, based upon an article in RMC, I kit bashed a Mantra
                                                                                      Mogul with the Mantra Belle of the 80s (4-4-0). Looking at it today in my
                                                                                      display case, it seems both awkward and crude but it was my first attempt
                                                                                      at working with brass.  RMC published a pix of it in the May 1971 RMC, see
                                                                                      page 33 if you have that issue.

                                                                                      I ordered all of the parts from Klein in Baltimore so they were still
                                                                                      available in the 1959-60 era.  Some of the "additives" were Seller soft
                                                                                      castings.  I will admit though that I got a bit carried away and innovative
                                                                                      and certainly un-prototypical with respect to installing a Kestrel steam
                                                                                      chest.



                                                                                      Ray Hobin
                                                                                        NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX
                                                                                        Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1054 From: Gerry D Date: 3/6/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: notes on the Coffee Mine
                                                                                      You're Welcome Frank,

                                                                                      I think I have all the instructions except those for
                                                                                      the fire train. I'll keep scanning them and posting
                                                                                      them.

                                                                                      Gerry

                                                                                      --- Frank Weed <busgrouches@...> wrote:

                                                                                      > Gerry
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Thanks for the info. That is what I was looking for.
                                                                                      > Now maybe I can finish up what I started 20 years
                                                                                      > ago. Well, maybe not that long ago. Thanks again.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Frank
                                                                                      > MP 254 BNSF Lampasas Sub


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                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1055 From: Gerry D Date: 3/6/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: manual for MRC "anteek" powerpack
                                                                                      Update; MRC says they have no information.

                                                                                      What did they do, shred it?

                                                                                      Why don’t they have any information?

                                                                                      You may have come upon a secret way to launch
                                                                                      missiles!

                                                                                      Better check with an expert before removing that
                                                                                      jumper.

                                                                                      Is that guy with the alligator clips from Mission
                                                                                      Impossible still around?

                                                                                      Gerry

                                                                                      --- Imp Ster <iimpster@...> wrote:

                                                                                      > thanks for the lead, Gerry, i sent the guy an email.
                                                                                      > here's hoping he takes the bait!
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Glenn, thanks for the reply
                                                                                      > - if you come across the manual, give me a shout.
                                                                                      > i dont really need the whole ball of wax, just some
                                                                                      > idea of what to
                                                                                      > do about that ding-dang jumper bar!
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > cheers
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > ...
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Gerry D
                                                                                      > <gerard_sr@...> wrote:
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > WOW!
                                                                                      > > is the phone type plug the one with four 1/2"
                                                                                      > prongs?
                                                                                      > > heh heh heh...
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > If you have to, you can forward it to me and I'll
                                                                                      > > check it out for you.
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > Or, here's a mention of one, you might try and
                                                                                      > contact
                                                                                      > > the poster...
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      http://www.trainboard.com/ultimatebb.php/ubb/get_topic/f/9/t/004693.ht
                                                                                      > ml
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > Gerry
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > --- Imp Ster <iimpster@...> wrote:
                                                                                      > >
                                                                                      > > > greets all -
                                                                                      > > >
                                                                                      > > > a pal gave me an old Model Rectifier Corp "Train
                                                                                      > > > Power 5" unit
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >


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                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1056 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/6/2006
                                                                                      Subject: Re: need manual for MRC TrainPower 5 "anteek" powerpack
                                                                                      Attachments :
                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                        From: Imp Ster <iimpster@...>
                                                                                        To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                        Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 11:37 PM
                                                                                        Subject: [vintageHO] need manual for MRC TrainPower 5 "anteek" powerpack


                                                                                        > greets all -
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > a pal gave me an old Model Rectifier Corp "Train Power 5" unit that has
                                                                                        > a nifty 'walk-around' control which uses common phone-line connector.
                                                                                        > (gee, wotta concept.)
                                                                                        >

                                                                                        I wonder if that's the same as the old "Model 55 Cab Control". It was made
                                                                                        to be a second throttle attached to an existing pack.


                                                                                        > i'm posting this query here because this pack surely qualifies
                                                                                        > as "vintage" by now.
                                                                                        > checked MRC's site for any documentation, no luck, looks like they are
                                                                                        > going the Walther's route with "diversification", and devil take the
                                                                                        > hindmost if you need older product documentation.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > (btw, among the other great 'heirloom' products i am collecting for
                                                                                        > my "Psuedo-Northlandz" legacy, are the Golden Throttle-Packs, analog,
                                                                                        > non-transistorised (not that theres anything wrong with that... hah)
                                                                                        > featuring the beefy old taper-wound rheostats.)
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > so anyway, me pal gives me this shiny silver solid-state #5 with a
                                                                                        > slight smirk.
                                                                                        > when i get it home, i begin to understand why the smirk.
                                                                                        > on the back there is evidently a bi-polar power supply for lighting or
                                                                                        > signals.
                                                                                        > terminals are numbered 1 Lamp, 2-, 3+, 4-.
                                                                                        > it has an OEM jumper bar screwed in place over terminals 3+ and 4-.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > i'm kinda scared to power it up without knowing more.
                                                                                        > so, anybody got any paper or the skinny on this crate?
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > if i can get it to work without frying the poor dainty lil transistors,
                                                                                        > i'd like to try it on the webcast trains to see if i can get them to
                                                                                        > creep slow enough for the camera without heating up the armatures.
                                                                                        > and, if i can figger out the bi-polar thingy, would like to use that
                                                                                        > for bi-polar LEDs and mebbee a TwinT detection experiment.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > any tech info on this box would be most appreciated.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > cheers, da imp

                                                                                        Hope you have better luck than I did when I bought a "Controlmaster V" off
                                                                                        eBay.

                                                                                        Plugged it in under no load, flipped the power switch and "BOOM!", all the
                                                                                        magic smoke got out.

                                                                                        As far as the old MRC "Golden Throttle Packs", one powers my yard, and
                                                                                        please observe what powers my mainline in the bottom of the attached photo.

                                                                                        Don

                                                                                        don.dellmann@...
                                                                                        http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                        moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        co-moderator: SCENERY@...
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                                                                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1057 From: takefive247 Date: 3/6/2006
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Eight Ball Mogul
                                                                                        Thanks guys,
                                                                                        You have been a great help. Think I found the problem. The cab is
                                                                                        mounted on top of the frame instead of around and under it.
                                                                                        Think I'll try the PC board stock for the draw bakelite. Thanks
                                                                                        Glenn, and what is CA? Wish I had that before I broke a couple frames.
                                                                                        Bill

                                                                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Bill--if you don't fine the fiber plate, send me an SSAE (Glenn
                                                                                        Joesten, 3825 Pruett Dr. Yreka, CA 96097-9708) and I'll trace one for
                                                                                        you. Some PC board stock should be fine for making one. THe pin can
                                                                                        be replaced with a screw.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > I recall it was available before WWII--possibly 1939 or 40. Many
                                                                                        parts are common with the "Belle of the Eighties" 4-4-0. As far as I
                                                                                        know it was not offered painted--there may have been a bottle of paint
                                                                                        in the kit. Check the cab mount--I think there is a tab on the front
                                                                                        of the cab that should be inside the boiler--soundl like it is on top
                                                                                        of the boiler on yours.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > If you have "Zamak Rot" in yours--get the really thin CA and flow it
                                                                                        into the cracks. gj
                                                                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                        > From: takefive247
                                                                                        > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        > Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 4:17 AM
                                                                                        > Subject: [vintageHO] Eight Ball Mogul
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Hello
                                                                                        > I have what I believe is a brass Mantua Eight Ball Mogul I want to
                                                                                        > restore. Doesn't need much more then the fiber coupling plate and a
                                                                                        > good cleaning. Can someone help me out with a few answers?
                                                                                        > First is an assembly instruction sheet. Anyone have one? I am a bit
                                                                                        > confused because it looks like a factory paint job but assembled
                                                                                        > incorrectly where the cab attaches, making the boiler be on a slope.
                                                                                        > Second, when were these manufactured? I have it being introduced in
                                                                                        > 1942 and available at least through 1947 but brass wasn't available so
                                                                                        > was it made earlier or later?
                                                                                        > Third, how do I give it a good cleaning with out destroying the
                                                                                        > paint? Has a lot (some) lint and hair in it. Hate to take it apart, it
                                                                                        > looks so original.
                                                                                        > And lastly, for now, would anyone have an original fiber coupler
                                                                                        > plate, know where I could get one or some material to make one?
                                                                                        > Thamks
                                                                                        > Bill
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > SPONSORED LINKS Ho scale G scale model train G scale train
                                                                                        > Ho scale model train Ho scale trains
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                        > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > a.. Visit your group "vintageHO" on the web.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                        > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                        Service.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1058 From: Gerry D Date: 3/6/2006
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Eight Ball Mogul
                                                                                        CA is commonly known as "Crazy Glue".
                                                                                        :-)

                                                                                        --- takefive247 <takefive@...> wrote:

                                                                                        > Thanks guys,
                                                                                        > You have been a great help. Think I found the
                                                                                        > problem. The cab is
                                                                                        > mounted on top of the frame instead of around and
                                                                                        > under it.
                                                                                        > Think I'll try the PC board stock for the draw
                                                                                        > bakelite. Thanks
                                                                                        > Glenn, and what is CA? Wish I had that before I
                                                                                        > broke a couple frames.
                                                                                        > Bill
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn"
                                                                                        > <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > Bill--if you don't fine the fiber plate, send me
                                                                                        > an SSAE (Glenn
                                                                                        > Joesten, 3825 Pruett Dr. Yreka, CA 96097-9708) and
                                                                                        > I'll trace one for
                                                                                        > you. Some PC board stock should be fine for making
                                                                                        > one. THe pin can
                                                                                        > be replaced with a screw.
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > I recall it was available before WWII--possibly
                                                                                        > 1939 or 40. Many
                                                                                        > parts are common with the "Belle of the Eighties"
                                                                                        > 4-4-0. As far as I
                                                                                        > know it was not offered painted--there may have been
                                                                                        > a bottle of paint
                                                                                        > in the kit. Check the cab mount--I think there is a
                                                                                        > tab on the front
                                                                                        > of the cab that should be inside the boiler--soundl
                                                                                        > like it is on top
                                                                                        > of the boiler on yours.
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > If you have "Zamak Rot" in yours--get the really
                                                                                        > thin CA and flow it
                                                                                        > into the cracks. gj
                                                                                        > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                        > > From: takefive247
                                                                                        > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        > > Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 4:17 AM
                                                                                        > > Subject: [vintageHO] Eight Ball Mogul
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > Hello
                                                                                        > > I have what I believe is a brass Mantua
                                                                                        > Eight Ball Mogul I want to
                                                                                        > > restore. Doesn't need much more then the fiber
                                                                                        > coupling plate and a
                                                                                        > > good cleaning. Can someone help me out with a
                                                                                        > few answers?
                                                                                        > > First is an assembly instruction sheet.
                                                                                        > Anyone have one? I am a bit
                                                                                        > > confused because it looks like a factory paint
                                                                                        > job but assembled
                                                                                        > > incorrectly where the cab attaches, making the
                                                                                        > boiler be on a slope.
                                                                                        > > Second, when were these manufactured? I have
                                                                                        > it being introduced in
                                                                                        > > 1942 and available at least through 1947 but
                                                                                        > brass wasn't available so
                                                                                        > > was it made earlier or later?
                                                                                        > > Third, how do I give it a good cleaning with
                                                                                        > out destroying the
                                                                                        > > paint? Has a lot (some) lint and hair in it.
                                                                                        > Hate to take it apart, it
                                                                                        > > looks so original.
                                                                                        > > And lastly, for now, would anyone have an
                                                                                        > original fiber coupler
                                                                                        > > plate, know where I could get one or some
                                                                                        > material to make one?
                                                                                        > > Thamks
                                                                                        > > Bill
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > SPONSORED LINKS Ho scale G scale model train G
                                                                                        > scale train
                                                                                        > > Ho scale model train Ho scale trains
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                        > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > a.. Visit your group "vintageHO" on the web.
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an
                                                                                        > email to:
                                                                                        > > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                                                                        > the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                        > Service.
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >


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                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1059 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/6/2006
                                                                                        Subject: Re: MRC "anteek" Golden-era powerpacks
                                                                                        Don, i missed the pix, alas - i am getting daily digest only - feel
                                                                                        like posting it in Files area?

                                                                                        btw, if you mean the classic Dual Pack, heheh, i found one near-mint
                                                                                        at a down-state an-teek mall... for $90 !!! ... am saving it for the
                                                                                        bus ry mains, someday..(had the original $35 price tag under some
                                                                                        tape) lordy it was highway robbery but waddya do. but dont feel too
                                                                                        bad for me... later i got 2 like-new Golds for only $10 each. so it
                                                                                        evens out.
                                                                                        btw, the mall guy had a real old rusty, but still functional Triple
                                                                                        Pack with large glass pilot-light "eyes".
                                                                                        i havent seen one since and he wasnt going to part with it, no matter
                                                                                        how much i begged and pleaded.
                                                                                        such is life - ya win some, ya lose some.
                                                                                        but i gotta say, sometimes that 3-Pak still haunts my dreams...

                                                                                        ...

                                                                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                        > From: Imp Ster <iimpster@...>
                                                                                        > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                        > Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 11:37 PM
                                                                                        > Subject: [vintageHO] need manual for MRC TrainPower 5 "anteek"
                                                                                        powerpack
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > > greets all -
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > a pal gave me an old Model Rectifier Corp "Train Power 5" unit
                                                                                        that has
                                                                                        > > a nifty 'walk-around' control which uses common phone-line
                                                                                        connector.
                                                                                        > > (gee, wotta concept.)
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > I wonder if that's the same as the old "Model 55 Cab Control". It
                                                                                        was made
                                                                                        > to be a second throttle attached to an existing pack.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > > i'm posting this query here because this pack surely qualifies
                                                                                        > > as "vintage" by now.
                                                                                        > > checked MRC's site for any documentation, no luck, looks like
                                                                                        they are
                                                                                        > > going the Walther's route with "diversification", and devil take
                                                                                        the
                                                                                        > > hindmost if you need older product documentation.
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > (btw, among the other great 'heirloom' products i am collecting
                                                                                        for
                                                                                        > > my "Psuedo-Northlandz" legacy, are the Golden Throttle-Packs,
                                                                                        analog,
                                                                                        > > non-transistorised (not that theres anything wrong with that...
                                                                                        hah)
                                                                                        > > featuring the beefy old taper-wound rheostats.)
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > so anyway, me pal gives me this shiny silver solid-state #5 with a
                                                                                        > > slight smirk.
                                                                                        > > when i get it home, i begin to understand why the smirk.
                                                                                        > > on the back there is evidently a bi-polar power supply for
                                                                                        lighting or
                                                                                        > > signals.
                                                                                        > > terminals are numbered 1 Lamp, 2-, 3+, 4-.
                                                                                        > > it has an OEM jumper bar screwed in place over terminals 3+ and 4-
                                                                                        .
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > i'm kinda scared to power it up without knowing more.
                                                                                        > > so, anybody got any paper or the skinny on this crate?
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > if i can get it to work without frying the poor dainty lil
                                                                                        transistors,
                                                                                        > > i'd like to try it on the webcast trains to see if i can get them
                                                                                        to
                                                                                        > > creep slow enough for the camera without heating up the armatures.
                                                                                        > > and, if i can figger out the bi-polar thingy, would like to use
                                                                                        that
                                                                                        > > for bi-polar LEDs and mebbee a TwinT detection experiment.
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > any tech info on this box would be most appreciated.
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > cheers, da imp
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Hope you have better luck than I did when I bought a "Controlmaster
                                                                                        V" off
                                                                                        > eBay.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Plugged it in under no load, flipped the power switch and "BOOM!",
                                                                                        all the
                                                                                        > magic smoke got out.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > As far as the old MRC "Golden Throttle Packs", one powers my yard,
                                                                                        and
                                                                                        > please observe what powers my mainline in the bottom of the
                                                                                        attached photo.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Don
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > don.dellmann@...
                                                                                        > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                        > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        > co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1060 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/6/2006
                                                                                        Subject: re, MRC says they have no information
                                                                                        thnaks Gerry for trying anyway.

                                                                                        results remind me of when i rattled Athearn's cage looking for the old
                                                                                        dies.

                                                                                        "Alice doesnt live here anymore.... and btw, who da fig is Alice?"

                                                                                        just maddening.
                                                                                        i can go online and find (free) OEM printer-driver software dating back
                                                                                        to the Dark Ages, but MDC cant even keep critical technical data handy
                                                                                        more than a few years?
                                                                                        cmon folks, i knew the pack was old, but how old is old nowdays?
                                                                                        and they want me to invest whole divisions of iron men in their new DCC
                                                                                        stuff? - they gonna deep-6 the nomenclature on that too when it becomes
                                                                                        last years model?

                                                                                        $$-grubbing twits.
                                                                                        that burns my traction tires right off.
                                                                                        i'm going back into my hole and not coming out til spring.
                                                                                        (thankfully, its half past March already.)

                                                                                        ...


                                                                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Gerry D <gerard_sr@...> wrote:
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Update; MRC says they have no information.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > What did they do, shred it?
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Why don't they have any information?
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > You may have come upon a secret way to launch
                                                                                        > missiles!
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Better check with an expert before removing that
                                                                                        > jumper.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Is that guy with the alligator clips from Mission
                                                                                        > Impossible still around?
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Gerry
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > --- Imp Ster <iimpster@...> wrote:
                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1061 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/6/2006
                                                                                        Subject: MRC, MDC... whatever. (& a circus train tale.)
                                                                                        sorry for the ranting & typos, guys.
                                                                                        been another long day watching trains wobble over what CSX
                                                                                        cals "track".

                                                                                        but something really neat happened today.
                                                                                        one of the passing wobblers was the Ringling Bros, B&B "Red" train.
                                                                                        (at least i think it was the Red... had red logos and trim, and i'm
                                                                                        kinda sure the Blue section, traveling the alternate circuit, has
                                                                                        blue logos and trim... so anyway.)

                                                                                        why all the Red state excitement, you ask?

                                                                                        well, back in '81, i was actualy briefly working on the Red train
                                                                                        crew from SLC to Denver.
                                                                                        (yes, i once ran away and joined the circus... why are you surprised?
                                                                                        heh)

                                                                                        my main task, once the train arrived in the Denver yard, after
                                                                                        helping roll out the canvas fire hoses used to bring water to the
                                                                                        train, was then for the duration of my stint to mop out Gunther-Gebel-
                                                                                        Williams palatial varnish once a day, then i could retire to the "Pie
                                                                                        Car" (an old club-diner) and stuff my face until retiring in my
                                                                                        duplex-sleeper crew bunk.

                                                                                        there is an old white school bus which is used as a crew shuttle,
                                                                                        that i rode once or twice to the show, as employees were always
                                                                                        admitted free to events.
                                                                                        (i got to walk into the arena from the staging areas in back, past
                                                                                        all the animals and actors preparing for their turns.)
                                                                                        what a marvel to see that very same old white bus going past on that
                                                                                        train today!! ... gave me the chills seeing it again.
                                                                                        it was on the very last flatcar, i almost missed it, but there it was
                                                                                        sailing past!

                                                                                        anyway, due to impending fatherhood, i left the circus in Denver and
                                                                                        hitched back to SLC and my future destiny, which included an old bus
                                                                                        of my own, given as a nuptial gift from my bride-so-blushing.

                                                                                        yes, its all in my upcoming book(s).
                                                                                        stay tuned.

                                                                                        and now, i bid you all Goodnight!

                                                                                        ...
                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1062 From: Ilcentral@aol.com Date: 3/6/2006
                                                                                        Subject: The old days
                                                                                        Hi Group,
                                                                                        I want to introduce my self my name is John Pitts & I have been a model railroader for a long time & I started out with HO trains by  Lionel
                                                                                        I find this group to be very refreshing from the usual MR Yahoo group.
                                                                                        Years years ago I would set up my trains in my bedroom and just have fun so what if my railroad did not have this unit or that car it was just fun.
                                                                                        But now my stuff has to be painted just so & it has to be weatherd just right & on.on.on.
                                                                                        I miss those days I think it was a lot more fun.
                                                                                        Thank you for your time & thank you for this great site.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        John Pitts
                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1063 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/6/2006
                                                                                        Subject: Re: MRC "anteek" Golden-era powerpacks
                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                        From: Imp Ster <iimpster@...>
                                                                                        To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                        Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 11:41 PM
                                                                                        Subject: [vintageHO] Re: MRC "anteek" Golden-era powerpacks


                                                                                        > Don, i missed the pix, alas - i am getting daily digest only - feel
                                                                                        > like posting it in Files area?
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > btw, if you mean the classic Dual Pack, heheh, i found one near-mint
                                                                                        > at a down-state an-teek mall... for $90 !!! ... am saving it for the
                                                                                        > bus ry mains, someday..(had the original $35 price tag under some
                                                                                        > tape) lordy it was highway robbery but waddya do. but dont feel too
                                                                                        > bad for me... later i got 2 like-new Golds for only $10 each. so it
                                                                                        > evens out.
                                                                                        > btw, the mall guy had a real old rusty, but still functional Triple
                                                                                        > Pack with large glass pilot-light "eyes".
                                                                                        > i havent seen one since and he wasnt going to part with it, no matter
                                                                                        > how much i begged and pleaded.
                                                                                        > such is life - ya win some, ya lose some.
                                                                                        > but i gotta say, sometimes that 3-Pak still haunts my dreams...

                                                                                        Good guess, it IS a "Dual Pack". $30 on eBay nyah nyah!

                                                                                        I started a new photo album on the group's photo page, "classic power", I
                                                                                        just ran downstairs and retook a couple pics of how my layout is powered.

                                                                                        Any other vintage power supplies still operating out there? Feel free to
                                                                                        add them to the album.

                                                                                        Don

                                                                                        don.dellmann@...
                                                                                        http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                        moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
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                                                                                        moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
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                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1064 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 3/7/2006
                                                                                        Subject: Re: The old days
                                                                                        Hi John, and welcome to the group.
                                                                                         I know what you mean, Some of my trains have to be correctly detailed but I also love to collect and restore the oldies and run them on the layout just for nostalgia and the fun of it.
                                                                                         Brings back memories of those fun filled days.
                                                                                         I am in the midst of restoring an old Lionel Husky It is all original except for the paint. (had to strip off 3 layers of brushed on enamel paint) I'll post a photo of it so far in my photo album.

                                                                                        Ilcentral@... wrote:
                                                                                        Hi Group,
                                                                                        I want to introduce my self my name is John Pitts & I have been a model railroader for a long time & I started out with HO trains by  Lionel
                                                                                        I find this group to be very refreshing from the usual MR Yahoo group.
                                                                                        Years years ago I would set up my trains in my bedroom and just have fun so what if my railroad did not have this unit or that car it was just fun.
                                                                                        But now my stuff has to be painted just so & it has to be weatherd just right & on.on.on.
                                                                                        I miss those days I think it was a lot more fun.
                                                                                        Thank you for your time & thank you for this great site.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        John Pitts




                                                                                        Yahoo! Mail
                                                                                        Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.

                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1065 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 3/7/2006
                                                                                        Subject: Re: The old days
                                                                                        Hearing things like "stuff has to be painted just so & it has to be weatherd just right & on.on.on" really gets me on my soapbox.  Perhaps I can say some things that will help.   And sorry for the long post to follow.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        There's a corner of the model railroading world where it is quite accepted to have that sort of fun.  In fact, it's become a rather big corner.  It is "O gauge" Tinplate or Hi-Rail operation.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Tinplate means running stuff without a lot scenery and details - sort of like how Lionel type trains were intended in the first place.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Hi-Rail means having a realistically scenicked and detailed pike, except, of course, for the third rail, large flanges, and large couplers.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Some people do things that are somewhere in between the two.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        A typical person involved in this is probably somebody who can finally get the Lionel trains they wanted in the fifties.  And their eyes aren't quite as good anymore nor is their dexterity and patience for detailed modeling.  And there is more and more of a trend toward operating the trains instead of just keeping them locked away as an investment.  Some folks get original Lionel equipment, some get more recently manufactured Lionel, and many get from other manufacturers that have cropped up over the years such as MTH, K-Line, Weaver, Williams, 3rd Rail, and Right of Way.  There is more stuff available now than ever before.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Most importantly, if somebody tells them they must have this detail or that detail, or that they have a paint scheme fo a road that didn't remotely have that engine model, their response will likely be "frankly, I don't give a damn."
                                                                                         
                                                                                        I prefer modeling HO to good detail and also collect and operate some 3-rail equipment.  But I don't see anything wrong with setting up HO or any other scale like a "Tinplater" or a Hi-Railer" would.  There may be people that might say you "must" do this or that, but nothing says we have to listen to them.  And that's probably the key.  We don't have to listen to them.  We can listen to only ourselves. 
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Now, I suspect at least some of the folks into vintage HO are a little similar to the aging baby boomers and their Lionel.  They can now get the vintage HO that they couldn't afford way back when.  (I myself recently got a Varney berkshire that I drooled over as a kid but couldn't afford.)  Maybe it helps them relive their yourth.  They might make some old craftsman kits that don't have the extreme (and fragile) detail of some newer offerings.  But not all of us want to make a John Allen caliber layout.  Some of us don't want to make a layout at all.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        An example of a non-detailed HO layout:  In his later years, a friend made a simple layout for my father (who wasn't very handy with tools) that was a simple loop on a painted board they would set on the dining room table.  They had an Athearn engine and some cars, and a couple of plastic buildings I built for them, and that's it.  They enjoyed just watching the train go round and round.  Occasionally, the friend would build a new car kit, bring it over, and they enjoyed adding that to the mix.  They would simply use the "five finger" switcher to make up a train.  I'm sure there was much more going on in their imagination than the plain board on the table.  The friend was a master craftsman with an unusual early life.  He grew up as a small boy traveling in a special C&NW "Signal Instruction" car because his father was in charge of annual signal re-training of all C&NW employees.  They traveled the whole system in a car with living quarters crammed into one end.  The rest of the car was set up like a school room for instruction.  The man knew more about railroads than most, but could have fun with simple models.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        I suspect some just admire the vintage HO for just how much was accomplished in its day.  I sure do.  And I'm thankful for it.  I suppose today's HO will be vintage someday when modeling is commonly done with a computer and a virtually reality visor or something.  And that will become vintage when we can just screw a cable from the computer directly into our skulls - or better yet go wireless.  (You want weathering? Press "1".)
                                                                                         
                                                                                        I think that in this hobby, people should do as they please and not let "rivet counters" or anyone else rain on their parade.  If ever there was a hobby that doesn't have one right answer, this is the one.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        I think that those days that you miss are still readily available, if you just choose to live them.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Chuck Kinzer
                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                        Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 10:01 PM
                                                                                        Subject: [vintageHO] The old days

                                                                                        Hi Group,
                                                                                        I want to introduce my self my name is John Pitts & I have been a model railroader for a long time & I started out with HO trains by  Lionel
                                                                                        I find this group to be very refreshing from the usual MR Yahoo group.
                                                                                        Years years ago I would set up my trains in my bedroom and just have fun so what if my railroad did not have this unit or that car it was just fun.
                                                                                        But now my stuff has to be painted just so & it has to be weatherd just right & on.on.on.
                                                                                        I miss those days I think it was a lot more fun.
                                                                                        Thank you for your time & thank you for this great site.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        John Pitts
                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1066 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 3/7/2006
                                                                                        Subject: Re: The old days
                                                                                        Chuck,
                                                                                        All I can say to that is... AMEN!!! 
                                                                                        You've made the most important statement of our hobby, all in one email!
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Dan Bush - Yardbird Classic Trains
                                                                                         
                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                        Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 3:15 AM
                                                                                        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] The old days

                                                                                        Hearing things like "stuff has to be painted just so & it has to be weatherd just right & on.on.on" really gets me on my soapbox.  Perhaps I can say some things that will help.   And sorry for the long post to follow.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        There's a corner of the model railroading world where it is quite accepted to have that sort of fun.  In fact, it's become a rather big corner.  It is "O gauge" Tinplate or Hi-Rail operation.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Tinplate means running stuff without a lot scenery and details - sort of like how Lionel type trains were intended in the first place.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Hi-Rail means having a realistically scenicked and detailed pike, except, of course, for the third rail, large flanges, and large couplers.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Some people do things that are somewhere in between the two.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        A typical person involved in this is probably somebody who can finally get the Lionel trains they wanted in the fifties.  And their eyes aren't quite as good anymore nor is their dexterity and patience for detailed modeling.  And there is more and more of a trend toward operating the trains instead of just keeping them locked away as an investment.  Some folks get original Lionel equipment, some get more recently manufactured Lionel, and many get from other manufacturers that have cropped up over the years such as MTH, K-Line, Weaver, Williams, 3rd Rail, and Right of Way.  There is more stuff available now than ever before.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Most importantly, if somebody tells them they must have this detail or that detail, or that they have a paint scheme fo a road that didn't remotely have that engine model, their response will likely be "frankly, I don't give a damn."
                                                                                         
                                                                                        I prefer modeling HO to good detail and also collect and operate some 3-rail equipment.  But I don't see anything wrong with setting up HO or any other scale like a "Tinplater" or a Hi-Railer" would.  There may be people that might say you "must" do this or that, but nothing says we have to listen to them.  And that's probably the key.  We don't have to listen to them.  We can listen to only ourselves. 
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Now, I suspect at least some of the folks into vintage HO are a little similar to the aging baby boomers and their Lionel.  They can now get the vintage HO that they couldn't afford way back when.  (I myself recently got a Varney berkshire that I drooled over as a kid but couldn't afford.)  Maybe it helps them relive their yourth.  They might make some old craftsman kits that don't have the extreme (and fragile) detail of some newer offerings.  But not all of us want to make a John Allen caliber layout.  Some of us don't want to make a layout at all.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        An example of a non-detailed HO layout:  In his later years, a friend made a simple layout for my father (who wasn't very handy with tools) that was a simple loop on a painted board they would set on the dining room table.  They had an Athearn engine and some cars, and a couple of plastic buildings I built for them, and that's it.  They enjoyed just watching the train go round and round.  Occasionally, the friend would build a new car kit, bring it over, and they enjoyed adding that to the mix.  They would simply use the "five finger" switcher to make up a train.  I'm sure there was much more going on in their imagination than the plain board on the table.  The friend was a master craftsman with an unusual early life.  He grew up as a small boy traveling in a special C&NW "Signal Instruction" car because his father was in charge of annual signal re-training of all C&NW employees.  They traveled the whole system in a car with living quarters crammed into one end.  The rest of the car was set up like a school room for instruction.  The man knew more about railroads than most, but could have fun with simple models.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        I suspect some just admire the vintage HO for just how much was accomplished in its day.  I sure do.  And I'm thankful for it.  I suppose today's HO will be vintage someday when modeling is commonly done with a computer and a virtually reality visor or something.  And that will become vintage when we can just screw a cable from the computer directly into our skulls - or better yet go wireless.  (You want weathering? Press "1".)
                                                                                         
                                                                                        I think that in this hobby, people should do as they please and not let "rivet counters" or anyone else rain on their parade.  If ever there was a hobby that doesn't have one right answer, this is the one.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        I think that those days that you miss are still readily available, if you just choose to live them.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Chuck Kinzer
                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                        Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 10:01 PM
                                                                                        Subject: [vintageHO] The old days

                                                                                        Hi Group,
                                                                                        I want to introduce my self my name is John Pitts & I have been a model railroader for a long time & I started out with HO trains by  Lionel
                                                                                        I find this group to be very refreshing from the usual MR Yahoo group.
                                                                                        Years years ago I would set up my trains in my bedroom and just have fun so what if my railroad did not have this unit or that car it was just fun.
                                                                                        But now my stuff has to be painted just so & it has to be weatherd just right & on.on.on.
                                                                                        I miss those days I think it was a lot more fun.
                                                                                        Thank you for your time & thank you for this great site.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        John Pitts
                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1067 From: Dave Slater Date: 3/7/2006
                                                                                        Subject: Re: need manual for MRC TrainPower 5 "anteek" powerpack
                                                                                        I think I have one of those power packs in a box in the basement..
                                                                                        Dave S.

                                                                                        Don Dellmann wrote:

                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                        From: Imp Ster <iimpster@...>
                                                                                        To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                        Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 11:37 PM
                                                                                        Subject: [vintageHO] need manual for MRC TrainPower 5 "anteek" powerpack


                                                                                        > greets all -
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > a pal gave me an old Model Rectifier Corp "Train Power 5" unit that has
                                                                                        > a nifty 'walk-around' control which uses common phone-line connector.
                                                                                        > (gee, wotta concept.)
                                                                                        >

                                                                                        I wonder if that's the same as the old "Model 55 Cab Control".  It was made
                                                                                        to be a second throttle attached to an existing pack.


                                                                                        > i'm posting this query here because this pack surely qualifies
                                                                                        > as "vintage" by now.
                                                                                        > checked MRC's site for any documentation, no luck, looks like they are
                                                                                        > going the Walther's route with "diversification", and devil take the
                                                                                        > hindmost if you need older product documentation.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > (btw, among the other great 'heirloom' products i am collecting for
                                                                                        > my "Psuedo-Northlandz" legacy, are the Golden Throttle-Packs, analog,
                                                                                        > non-transistorised (not that theres anything wrong with that... hah)
                                                                                        > featuring the beefy old taper-wound rheostats.)
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > so anyway, me pal gives me this shiny silver solid-state #5 with a
                                                                                        > slight smirk.
                                                                                        > when i get it home, i begin to understand why the smirk.
                                                                                        > on the back there is evidently a bi-polar power supply for lighting or
                                                                                        > signals.
                                                                                        > terminals are numbered 1 Lamp, 2-, 3+, 4-.
                                                                                        > it has an OEM jumper bar screwed in place over terminals 3+ and 4-.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > i'm kinda scared to power it up without knowing more.
                                                                                        > so, anybody got any paper or the skinny on this crate?
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > if i can get it to work without frying the poor dainty lil transistors,
                                                                                        > i'd like to try it on the webcast trains to see if i can get them to
                                                                                        > creep slow enough for the camera without heating up the armatures.
                                                                                        > and, if i can figger out the bi-polar thingy, would like to use that
                                                                                        > for bi-polar LEDs and mebbee a TwinT detection experiment.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > any tech info on this box would be most appreciated.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > cheers, da imp

                                                                                        Hope you have better luck than I did when I bought a "Controlmaster V" off
                                                                                        eBay.

                                                                                        Plugged it in under no load, flipped the power switch and "BOOM!", all the
                                                                                        magic smoke got out.

                                                                                        As far as the old MRC "Golden Throttle Packs", one powers my yard, and
                                                                                        please observe what powers my mainline in the bottom of the attached photo.

                                                                                        Don

                                                                                        don.dellmann@...
                                                                                        http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                        moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO





                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1068 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 3/7/2006
                                                                                        Subject: Re: MRC "anteek" Golden-era powerpacks

                                                                                        I still railroad with a single one with the pulse power-it must be 40 years old.  I have an old RIX handheld tied to it as well (for the branchline); those were neat units that have an 8 ft. cable that let you follow the action a bit (another good thing that did not last too long on the market).  Considering $500 for DCC (plus wiring up a “buss” line all over the RR, and Lord knows how much for all the decoders), we’ll just hang in there as long as the old gal puts out 12 volts. . . .   Jerry Garteiser

                                                                                         


                                                                                        From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Imp Ster
                                                                                        Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 11:41 PM
                                                                                        To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        Subject: [vintageHO] Re: MRC "anteek" Golden-era powerpacks

                                                                                         

                                                                                        Don, i missed the pix, alas - i am getting daily digest only - feel
                                                                                        like posting it in Files area?

                                                                                        btw, if you mean the classic Dual Pack, heheh, i found one near-mint
                                                                                        at a down-state an-teek mall... for $90 !!! ... am saving it for the
                                                                                        bus ry mains, someday..(had the original $35 price tag under some
                                                                                        tape) lordy it was highway robbery but waddya do. but dont feel too
                                                                                        bad for me... later i got 2 like-new Golds for only $10 each. so it
                                                                                        evens out.
                                                                                        btw, the mall guy had a real old rusty, but still functional Triple
                                                                                        Pack with large glass pilot-light "eyes".
                                                                                        i havent seen one since and he wasnt going to part with it, no matter
                                                                                        how much i begged and pleaded.
                                                                                        such is life - ya win some, ya lose some.
                                                                                        but i gotta say, sometimes that 3-Pak still haunts my dreams...

                                                                                        ...

                                                                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com , "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                        > From: Imp Ster <iimpster@...>
                                                                                        > To: < vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >
                                                                                        > Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 11:37 PM
                                                                                        > Subject: [vintageHO] need manual for MRC TrainPower 5 "anteek"
                                                                                        powerpack
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > > greets all -
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > a pal gave me an old Model Rectifier Corp "Train Power 5" unit
                                                                                        that has
                                                                                        > > a nifty 'walk-around' control which uses common phone-line
                                                                                        connector.
                                                                                        > > (gee, wotta concept.)
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > I wonder if that's the same as the old "Model 55 Cab Control".  It
                                                                                        was made
                                                                                        > to be a second throttle attached to an existing pack.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > > i'm posting this query here because this pack surely qualifies
                                                                                        > > as "vintage" by now.
                                                                                        > > checked MRC's site for any documentation, no luck, looks like
                                                                                        they are
                                                                                        > > going the Walther's route with "diversification", and devil take
                                                                                        the
                                                                                        > > hindmost if you need older product documentation.
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > (btw, among the other great 'heirloom' products i am collecting
                                                                                        for
                                                                                        > > my "Psuedo-Northlandz" legacy, are the Golden Throttle-Packs,
                                                                                        analog,
                                                                                        > > non-transistorised (not that theres anything wrong with that...
                                                                                        hah)
                                                                                        > > featuring the beefy old taper-wound rheostats.)
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > so anyway, me pal gives me this shiny silver solid-state #5 with a
                                                                                        > > slight smirk.
                                                                                        > > when i get it home, i begin to understand why the smirk.
                                                                                        > > on the back there is evidently a bi-polar power supply for
                                                                                        lighting or
                                                                                        > > signals.
                                                                                        > > terminals are numbered 1 Lamp, 2-, 3+, 4-.
                                                                                        > > it has an OEM jumper bar screwed in place over terminals 3+ and 4-
                                                                                        .
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > i'm kinda scared to power it up without knowing more.
                                                                                        > > so, anybody got any paper or the skinny on this crate?
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > if i can get it to work without frying the poor dainty lil
                                                                                        transistors,
                                                                                        > > i'd like to try it on the webcast trains to see if i can get them
                                                                                        to
                                                                                        > > creep slow enough for the camera without heating up the armatures.
                                                                                        > > and, if i can figger out the bi-polar thingy, would like to use
                                                                                        that
                                                                                        > > for bi-polar LEDs and mebbee a TwinT detection experiment.
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > any tech info on this box would be most appreciated.
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > cheers, da imp
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Hope you have better luck than I did when I bought a "Controlmaster
                                                                                        V" off
                                                                                        > eBay.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Plugged it in under no load, flipped the power switch and "BOOM!",
                                                                                        all the
                                                                                        > magic smoke got out.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > As far as the old MRC "Golden Throttle Packs", one powers my yard,
                                                                                        and
                                                                                        > please observe what powers my mainline in the bottom of the
                                                                                        attached photo.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Don
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > don.dellmann@...
                                                                                        > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                        > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        > co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                        >






                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1069 From: Graeme Eldred Date: 3/7/2006
                                                                                        Subject: Re: The old days
                                                                                        In message <001a01c641c7$c04c96e0$57163442@D4GSZ791>, Charles E. Kinzer
                                                                                        <ckinzer@...> writes
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >There's a corner of the model railroading world where it is quite
                                                                                        >accepted to have that sort of fun. In fact, it's become a rather big
                                                                                        >corner. It is "O gauge" Tinplate or Hi-Rail operation.

                                                                                        Thank you Charles - you said exactly what I was going to say, prior to
                                                                                        reading your message. I discovered 0 gauge seriously about 3 years ago,
                                                                                        having been a (British) 00 man for at least 40 years. I now run Lionel,
                                                                                        Marx, Hornby and anything that I can get my hands on, both clockwork and
                                                                                        electric. Great fun!

                                                                                        Please do not think that I am demeaning vintage H0 - I'm not. I still
                                                                                        have a substantial collection of vintage (1930s to 1960s) British and
                                                                                        European 00 and H0, and even a Varney loco tucked away somewhere, but
                                                                                        for pure fun, 0 gauge tinplate takes a lot of beating.
                                                                                        --
                                                                                        Graeme, riding the rails in snowy Scotland
                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1070 From: Frank Weed Date: 3/7/2006
                                                                                        Subject: Re: re, MRC says they have no information
                                                                                        Imp Ster
                                                                                         
                                                                                        You helped me out so I'm going to try and help you. Go to Internet Archives and type in what ever you might be looking for. IE: MDC or whatever. I did some searching this way and found the information needed. Just a idea.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Frank
                                                                                        MP 254 BNSF Lampasas Sub
                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1071 From: Ilcentral@aol.com Date: 3/7/2006
                                                                                        Subject: Re: The old days
                                                                                        In a message dated 3/7/2006 6:09:12 A.M. Central Standard Time, danrbush@... writes:
                                                                                        I prefer modeling HO to good detail 
                                                                                        Chuck,
                                                                                        I model in HO & I want good detail & weathering (if that is what you want from this hobby )  I also want my trains to look as good as possible.
                                                                                        I am working on rebuilding a Walthers heavyweight observation car into an Illinois Central office car that will take 4 months to complete this is fun for me others would say NO WAY that's to much work.
                                                                                        I guess I am a rivet counter but that again IS part of the hobby and I do not care what people think as I am enjoying this hobby the way I want to.
                                                                                        Bottom line is enjoy this hobby how you want to no one can tell you it's right or wrong its your railroad you do what you like & this is how you enjoy it.
                                                                                        The old days were fun yes sir they were but I wanted more from it I guess.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        John Pitts
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1072 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/7/2006
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Internet Archives
                                                                                        thanks for the tip, Frank - will do... and will post relevant results
                                                                                        if any.
                                                                                        who knows, somebody else might be following in my pawprints! ;-)

                                                                                        ...

                                                                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Weed" <busgrouches@...> wrote:
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        Go to Internet Archives .
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Frank
                                                                                        > MP 254 BNSF Lampasas Sub
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1073 From: ckinzer@fix.net Date: 3/7/2006
                                                                                        Subject: Re: The old days
                                                                                        Ah. But the point is not that you are getting more out of it than
                                                                                        somebody else. You are getting more out of it for you. Your "more"
                                                                                        is somebody else's "less".

                                                                                        Rivet counting is fine. It just doesn't make everyone else a second
                                                                                        class citizen.

                                                                                        I have done some items with an insane level of detailing. But that
                                                                                        doesn't mean I am having more fun than someone using shiny plastic
                                                                                        shake the box kit models.

                                                                                        In the live steam hobby you will sometimes see an impeccably built
                                                                                        steam engine with lettering stuck to the side of the tender from a
                                                                                        hardware store. You know, the ones with gold reflective backgrounds
                                                                                        meant to go on a mailbox. As a modeler, I secretly cringe from some
                                                                                        dissonance in my brain when seeing that. But I've never seen such a
                                                                                        person that wasn't having a lot of fun.

                                                                                        Chuck Kinzer

                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > In a message dated 3/7/2006 6:09:12 A.M. Central Standard Time,
                                                                                        > danrbush@... writes:
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > I prefer modeling HO to good detail
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Chuck,
                                                                                        > I model in HO & I want good detail & weathering (if that is what you want
                                                                                        > from this hobby ) I also want my trains to look as good as possible.
                                                                                        > I am working on rebuilding a Walthers heavyweight observation car into an
                                                                                        > Illinois Central office car that will take 4 months to complete this
                                                                                        > is fun for
                                                                                        > me others would say NO WAY that's to much work.
                                                                                        > I guess I am a rivet counter but that again IS part of the hobby and I do
                                                                                        > not care what people think as I am enjoying this hobby the way I want to.
                                                                                        > Bottom line is enjoy this hobby how you want to no one can tell you it's
                                                                                        > right or wrong its your railroad you do what you like & this is how
                                                                                        > you enjoy it.
                                                                                        > The old days were fun yes sir they were but I wanted more from it I guess.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > John Pitts
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1074 From: Ilcentral@aol.com Date: 3/7/2006
                                                                                        Subject: Re: The old days
                                                                                        In a message dated 3/7/2006 4:20:40 P.M. Central Standard Time, ckinzer@... writes:
                                                                                        Rivet counting is fine.  It just doesn't make everyone else a second 
                                                                                        class citizen.

                                                                                        Chuck,
                                                                                        That's right its all about what makes you happy and that's the bottom line in any hobby.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        John Pitts
                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1075 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 3/7/2006
                                                                                        Subject: Re: The old days

                                                                                        I agree-modeling is as diversified as the people in it.  Some like engines, some like weathering engines, some like electrical, some like scenery, etc.  A great arrangement if you can get the right mix together for a club.  The bottom line is that this is supposed to be “FUN”; so whatever that is to you, it’s your right (and money it costs to pursue this great hobby) to enjoy doing it.  If not, then better find another hobby.  It ain’t worth getting ulcers over – for sure!!   Jerry Garteiser

                                                                                         


                                                                                        From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Charles E. Kinzer
                                                                                        Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 3:16 AM
                                                                                        To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] The old days

                                                                                         

                                                                                        Hearing things like "stuff has to be painted just so & it has to be weatherd just right & on.on.on" really gets me on my soapbox.  Perhaps I can say some things that will help.   And sorry for the long post to follow.

                                                                                         

                                                                                        There's a corner of the model railroading world where it is quite accepted to have that sort of fun.  In fact, it's become a rather big corner.  It is "O gauge" Tinplate or Hi-Rail operation.

                                                                                         

                                                                                        Tinplate means running stuff without a lot scenery and details - sort of like how Lionel type trains were intended in the first place.

                                                                                         

                                                                                        Hi-Rail means having a realistically scenicked and detailed pike, except, of course, for the third rail, large flanges, and large couplers.

                                                                                         

                                                                                        Some people do things that are somewhere in between the two.

                                                                                         

                                                                                        A typical person involved in this is probably somebody who can finally get the Lionel trains they wanted in the fifties.  And their eyes aren't quite as good anymore nor is their dexterity and patience for detailed modeling.  And there is more and more of a trend toward operating the trains instead of just keeping them locked away as an investment.  Some folks get original Lionel equipment, some get more recently manufactured Lionel, and many get from other manufacturers that have cropped up over the years such as MTH, K-Line, Weaver, Williams, 3rd Rail, and Right of Way.  There is more stuff available now than ever before.

                                                                                         

                                                                                        Most importantly, if somebody tells them they must have this detail or that detail, or that they have a paint scheme fo a road that didn't remotely have that engine model, their response will likely be "frankly, I don't give a damn."

                                                                                         

                                                                                        I prefer modeling HO to good detail and also collect and operate some 3-rail equipment.  But I don't see anything wrong with setting up HO or any other scale like a "Tinplater" or a Hi-Railer" would.  There may be people that might say you "must" do this or that, but nothing says we have to listen to them.  And that's probably the key.  We don't have to listen to them.  We can listen to only ourselves. 

                                                                                         

                                                                                        Now, I suspect at least some of the folks into vintage HO are a little similar to the aging baby boomers and their Lionel.  They can now get the vintage HO that they couldn't afford way back when.  (I myself recently got a Varney berkshire that I drooled over as a kid but couldn't afford.)  Maybe it helps them relive their yourth.  They might make some old craftsman kits that don't have the extreme (and fragile) detail of some newer offerings.  But not all of us want to make a John Allen caliber layout.  Some of us don't want to make a layout at all.

                                                                                         

                                                                                        An example of a non-detailed HO layout:  In his later years, a friend made a simple layout for my father (who wasn't very handy with tools) that was a simple loop on a painted board they would set on the dining room table.  They had an Athearn engine and some cars, and a couple of plastic buildings I built for them, and that's it.  They enjoyed just watching the train go round and round.  Occasionally, the friend would build a new car kit, bring it over, and they enjoyed adding that to the mix.  They would simply use the "five finger" switcher to make up a train.  I'm sure there was much more going on in their imagination than the plain board on the table.  The friend was a master craftsman with an unusual early life.  He grew up as a small boy traveling in a special C&NW "Signal Instruction" car because his father was in charge of annual signal re-training of all C&NW employees.  They traveled the whole system in a car with living quarters crammed into one end.  The rest of the car was set up like a school room for instruction.  The man knew more about railroads than most, but could have fun with simple models.

                                                                                         

                                                                                        I suspect some just admire the vintage HO for just how much was accomplished in its day.  I sure do.  And I'm thankful for it.  I suppose today's HO will be vintage someday when modeling is commonly done with a computer and a virtually reality visor or something.  And that will become vintage when we can just screw a cable from the computer directly into our skulls - or better yet go wireless.  (You want weathering? Press "1".)

                                                                                         

                                                                                        I think that in this hobby, people should do as they please and not let "rivet counters" or anyone else rain on their parade.  If ever there was a hobby that doesn't have one right answer, this is the one.

                                                                                         

                                                                                        I think that those days that you miss are still readily available, if you just choose to live them.

                                                                                         

                                                                                        Chuck Kinzer

                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----

                                                                                        Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 10:01 PM

                                                                                        Subject: [vintageHO] The old days

                                                                                         

                                                                                        Hi Group,

                                                                                        I want to introduce my self my name is John Pitts & I have been a model railroader for a long time & I started out with HO trains by  Lionel

                                                                                        I find this group to be very refreshing from the usual MR Yahoo group.

                                                                                        Years years ago I would set up my trains in my bedroom and just have fun so what if my railroad did not have this unit or that car it was just fun.

                                                                                        But now my stuff has to be painted just so & it has to be weatherd just right & on.on.on.

                                                                                        I miss those days I think it was a lot more fun.

                                                                                        Thank you for your time & thank you for this great site.

                                                                                         

                                                                                        John Pitts

                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1076 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/7/2006
                                                                                        Subject: Re: re, MRC says they have no information
                                                                                        Another thing you could try is type "MRC TRAINPOWER 5" into Google or
                                                                                        Dogpile and see what comes up.

                                                                                        Don

                                                                                        don.dellmann@...
                                                                                        http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                        moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO

                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                        From: Frank Weed <busgrouches@...>
                                                                                        To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                        Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 9:01 AM
                                                                                        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] re, MRC says they have no information


                                                                                        Imp Ster

                                                                                        You helped me out so I'm going to try and help you. Go to Internet Archives
                                                                                        and type in what ever you might be looking for. IE: MDC or whatever. I did
                                                                                        some searching this way and found the information needed. Just a idea.

                                                                                        Frank
                                                                                        MP 254 BNSF Lampasas Sub
                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1077 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/7/2006
                                                                                        Subject: Re: The old days
                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                        From: <Ilcentral@...>
                                                                                        To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                        Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 2:13 PM
                                                                                        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] The old days


                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > In a message dated 3/7/2006 6:09:12 A.M. Central Standard Time,
                                                                                        > danrbush@... writes:
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > I prefer modeling HO to good detail
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Chuck,
                                                                                        > I model in HO & I want good detail & weathering (if that is what you want
                                                                                        > from this hobby ) I also want my trains to look as good as possible.
                                                                                        > I am working on rebuilding a Walthers heavyweight observation car into an
                                                                                        > Illinois Central office car that will take 4 months to complete this is
                                                                                        fun for
                                                                                        > me others would say NO WAY that's to much work.
                                                                                        > I guess I am a rivet counter but that again IS part of the hobby and I do
                                                                                        > not care what people think as I am enjoying this hobby the way I want to.
                                                                                        > Bottom line is enjoy this hobby how you want to no one can tell you it's
                                                                                        > right or wrong its your railroad you do what you like & this is how you
                                                                                        enjoy it.
                                                                                        > The old days were fun yes sir they were but I wanted more from it I
                                                                                        guess.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > John Pitts
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >

                                                                                        Having seen examples of models John has built in the past, I can assure you
                                                                                        that that Walthers kit will be a work of art when it's done.

                                                                                        Everyone has their own preferences what they want out of the hobby. If I
                                                                                        had to make a confession, it would be that Trains do not mean all that much
                                                                                        to me. Yes I love them, but really they're only an excuse to BUILD SCENERY!
                                                                                        To me the joy is in the building. If my layout is ever "done" (which it
                                                                                        probably will never be), it will be about 10 days before it gets torn down
                                                                                        to start over.

                                                                                        Part of what I love about the vintage pieces is that they were kits you
                                                                                        could build, and if you wanted to add detail you could. Beautiful models,
                                                                                        the equal of anything out of China today, could be built with just a little
                                                                                        estra effort. In the vintage days, model railroaders were craftsmen, and
                                                                                        models and layouts were judged by the effort and love that went into BUILDI
                                                                                        NG them, unlike today when a modeller is judged by the credit limit on his
                                                                                        Visa card. I will also admit, a lot of it is my own nostalgia for what
                                                                                        definitely were quieter, simpler times when the stresses of day to day
                                                                                        living seemed much less. (To that same end, I'm also a record collector,
                                                                                        vintage vinyl from the 1940's to the 1960's evokes the same pleasure).

                                                                                        Thank goodness for a few craftsmen like John who are keeping the hobby
                                                                                        alive.

                                                                                        Don

                                                                                        don.dellmann@...
                                                                                        http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                        moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1078 From: Glenn Date: 3/7/2006
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Eight Ball Mogul
                                                                                        CA is CyanoAcrylate (Super Glue) it comes in different viscosities.  there is one that is as thin as water--perhaps thinner?? thsi flows nicely into the cracks in defective Zamak/    as I said--if you need a patttern for the fiber drawbar, send me an ssae. 
                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                        Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 7:48 PM
                                                                                        Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Eight Ball Mogul

                                                                                        Thanks guys,
                                                                                           You have been a great help. Think I found the problem.  The cab is
                                                                                        mounted on top of the frame instead of around and under it.
                                                                                           Think I'll try the PC board stock for the draw bakelite. Thanks
                                                                                        Glenn, and what is CA? Wish I had that before I broke a couple frames.
                                                                                        Bill     

                                                                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Bill--if you don't fine the fiber plate, send me an SSAE (Glenn
                                                                                        Joesten, 3825 Pruett Dr. Yreka, CA 96097-9708) and I'll trace one for
                                                                                        you.  Some PC board stock should be fine for making one. THe pin can
                                                                                        be replaced with a screw.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > I recall it was available before WWII--possibly 1939 or 40.  Many
                                                                                        parts are common with the "Belle of the Eighties" 4-4-0. As far as I
                                                                                        know it was not offered painted--there may have been a bottle of paint
                                                                                        in the kit. Check the cab mount--I think there is a tab on the front
                                                                                        of the cab that should be inside the boiler--soundl like it is on top
                                                                                        of the boiler on yours.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > If you have "Zamak Rot" in yours--get the really thin CA and flow it
                                                                                        into the cracks. gj
                                                                                        >   ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                        >   From: takefive247
                                                                                        >   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        >   Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 4:17 AM
                                                                                        >   Subject: [vintageHO] Eight Ball Mogul
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >   Hello
                                                                                        >       I have what I believe is a brass Mantua Eight Ball Mogul I want to
                                                                                        >   restore. Doesn't need much more then the fiber coupling plate and a
                                                                                        >   good cleaning. Can someone help me out with a few answers?
                                                                                        >      First is an assembly instruction sheet. Anyone have one? I am a bit
                                                                                        >   confused because it looks like a factory paint job but assembled
                                                                                        >   incorrectly where the cab attaches, making the boiler be on a  slope.
                                                                                        >      Second, when were these manufactured? I have it being introduced in
                                                                                        >   1942 and available at least through 1947 but brass wasn't available so
                                                                                        >   was it made earlier or later?
                                                                                        >       Third, how do I give it a good cleaning with out destroying the
                                                                                        >   paint? Has a lot (some) lint and hair in it. Hate to take it apart, it
                                                                                        >   looks so original.
                                                                                        >       And lastly, for now, would anyone have an original fiber coupler
                                                                                        >   plate, know where I could get one or some material to make one?
                                                                                        >   Thamks
                                                                                        >   Bill  
                                                                                        >      
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >   SPONSORED LINKS Ho scale  G scale model train  G scale train 
                                                                                        >         Ho scale model train  Ho scale trains 
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                        >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >     a..  Visit your group "vintageHO" on the web.
                                                                                        >      
                                                                                        >     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                        >      vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        >      
                                                                                        >     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                        Service.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                        >





                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1079 From: kilbeggan68 Date: 3/7/2006
                                                                                        Subject: Code track?
                                                                                        Hi.Does anyone know of an online source that can explain all the
                                                                                        different HO code track to me?I am clueless as to what it all means.I
                                                                                        thought HO was HO.At this point I only have trains,no track yet.Thanks
                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1080 From: takefive247 Date: 3/7/2006
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Eight Ball Mogul
                                                                                        Thanks Glenn
                                                                                        I have enough left of the old drawbar for a pattern. What is the brand
                                                                                        or type of super glue that is thin as water? I want to try that.
                                                                                        Bill

                                                                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > CA is CyanoAcrylate (Super Glue) it comes in different viscosities.
                                                                                        there is one that is as thin as water--perhaps thinner?? thsi flows
                                                                                        nicely into the cracks in defective Zamak/ as I said--if you need a
                                                                                        patttern for the fiber drawbar, send me an ssae.
                                                                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                        > From: takefive247
                                                                                        > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        > Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 7:48 PM
                                                                                        > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Eight Ball Mogul
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Thanks guys,
                                                                                        > You have been a great help. Think I found the problem. The cab is
                                                                                        > mounted on top of the frame instead of around and under it.
                                                                                        > Think I'll try the PC board stock for the draw bakelite. Thanks
                                                                                        > Glenn, and what is CA? Wish I had that before I broke a couple frames.
                                                                                        > Bill
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@> wrote:
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > Bill--if you don't fine the fiber plate, send me an SSAE (Glenn
                                                                                        > Joesten, 3825 Pruett Dr. Yreka, CA 96097-9708) and I'll trace one for
                                                                                        > you. Some PC board stock should be fine for making one. THe pin can
                                                                                        > be replaced with a screw.
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > I recall it was available before WWII--possibly 1939 or 40. Many
                                                                                        > parts are common with the "Belle of the Eighties" 4-4-0. As far as I
                                                                                        > know it was not offered painted--there may have been a bottle of paint
                                                                                        > in the kit. Check the cab mount--I think there is a tab on the front
                                                                                        > of the cab that should be inside the boiler--soundl like it is on top
                                                                                        > of the boiler on yours.
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > If you have "Zamak Rot" in yours--get the really thin CA and flow it
                                                                                        > into the cracks. gj
                                                                                        > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                        > > From: takefive247
                                                                                        > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        > > Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 4:17 AM
                                                                                        > > Subject: [vintageHO] Eight Ball Mogul
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > Hello
                                                                                        > > I have what I believe is a brass Mantua Eight Ball Mogul I
                                                                                        want to
                                                                                        > > restore. Doesn't need much more then the fiber coupling plate
                                                                                        and a
                                                                                        > > good cleaning. Can someone help me out with a few answers?
                                                                                        > > First is an assembly instruction sheet. Anyone have one? I
                                                                                        am a bit
                                                                                        > > confused because it looks like a factory paint job but assembled
                                                                                        > > incorrectly where the cab attaches, making the boiler be on a
                                                                                        slope.
                                                                                        > > Second, when were these manufactured? I have it being
                                                                                        introduced in
                                                                                        > > 1942 and available at least through 1947 but brass wasn't
                                                                                        available so
                                                                                        > > was it made earlier or later?
                                                                                        > > Third, how do I give it a good cleaning with out
                                                                                        destroying the
                                                                                        > > paint? Has a lot (some) lint and hair in it. Hate to take it
                                                                                        apart, it
                                                                                        > > looks so original.
                                                                                        > > And lastly, for now, would anyone have an original fiber
                                                                                        coupler
                                                                                        > > plate, know where I could get one or some material to make one?
                                                                                        > > Thamks
                                                                                        > > Bill
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > SPONSORED LINKS Ho scale G scale model train G scale train
                                                                                        > > Ho scale model train Ho scale trains
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                        > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > a.. Visit your group "vintageHO" on the web.
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                        > > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                        > Service.
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > SPONSORED LINKS Ho scale G scale model train G scale train
                                                                                        > Ho scale model train Ho scale trains
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                        > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > a.. Visit your group "vintageHO" on the web.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                        > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                        Service.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1081 From: takefive247 Date: 3/7/2006
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Eight Ball Mogul
                                                                                        Thanks Glenn
                                                                                        I have enough left of the old drawbar for a pattern. What is the brand
                                                                                        or type of super glue that is thin as water? I want to try that.
                                                                                        Bill

                                                                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > CA is CyanoAcrylate (Super Glue) it comes in different viscosities.
                                                                                        there is one that is as thin as water--perhaps thinner?? thsi flows
                                                                                        nicely into the cracks in defective Zamak/ as I said--if you need a
                                                                                        patttern for the fiber drawbar, send me an ssae.
                                                                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                        > From: takefive247
                                                                                        > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        > Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 7:48 PM
                                                                                        > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Eight Ball Mogul
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Thanks guys,
                                                                                        > You have been a great help. Think I found the problem. The cab is
                                                                                        > mounted on top of the frame instead of around and under it.
                                                                                        > Think I'll try the PC board stock for the draw bakelite. Thanks
                                                                                        > Glenn, and what is CA? Wish I had that before I broke a couple frames.
                                                                                        > Bill
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@> wrote:
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > Bill--if you don't fine the fiber plate, send me an SSAE (Glenn
                                                                                        > Joesten, 3825 Pruett Dr. Yreka, CA 96097-9708) and I'll trace one for
                                                                                        > you. Some PC board stock should be fine for making one. THe pin can
                                                                                        > be replaced with a screw.
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > I recall it was available before WWII--possibly 1939 or 40. Many
                                                                                        > parts are common with the "Belle of the Eighties" 4-4-0. As far as I
                                                                                        > know it was not offered painted--there may have been a bottle of paint
                                                                                        > in the kit. Check the cab mount--I think there is a tab on the front
                                                                                        > of the cab that should be inside the boiler--soundl like it is on top
                                                                                        > of the boiler on yours.
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > If you have "Zamak Rot" in yours--get the really thin CA and flow it
                                                                                        > into the cracks. gj
                                                                                        > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                        > > From: takefive247
                                                                                        > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        > > Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 4:17 AM
                                                                                        > > Subject: [vintageHO] Eight Ball Mogul
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > Hello
                                                                                        > > I have what I believe is a brass Mantua Eight Ball Mogul I
                                                                                        want to
                                                                                        > > restore. Doesn't need much more then the fiber coupling plate
                                                                                        and a
                                                                                        > > good cleaning. Can someone help me out with a few answers?
                                                                                        > > First is an assembly instruction sheet. Anyone have one? I
                                                                                        am a bit
                                                                                        > > confused because it looks like a factory paint job but assembled
                                                                                        > > incorrectly where the cab attaches, making the boiler be on a
                                                                                        slope.
                                                                                        > > Second, when were these manufactured? I have it being
                                                                                        introduced in
                                                                                        > > 1942 and available at least through 1947 but brass wasn't
                                                                                        available so
                                                                                        > > was it made earlier or later?
                                                                                        > > Third, how do I give it a good cleaning with out
                                                                                        destroying the
                                                                                        > > paint? Has a lot (some) lint and hair in it. Hate to take it
                                                                                        apart, it
                                                                                        > > looks so original.
                                                                                        > > And lastly, for now, would anyone have an original fiber
                                                                                        coupler
                                                                                        > > plate, know where I could get one or some material to make one?
                                                                                        > > Thamks
                                                                                        > > Bill
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > > SPONSORED LINKS Ho scale G scale model train G scale train
                                                                                        > > Ho scale model train Ho scale trains
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        > >
                                                                                        >
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                                                                                        > SPONSORED LINKS Ho scale G scale model train G scale train
                                                                                        > Ho scale model train Ho scale trains
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                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1082 From: ckinzer@fix.net Date: 3/7/2006
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Code track?
                                                                                        I don't know of one really comprehensive online source. I have
                                                                                        searched quite a few myself on two occasions. I posted the following
                                                                                        on the GandD group awhile back. Sorry, I didn't bother to save the
                                                                                        links. But if you hunt around a lot, you will probably trip over the
                                                                                        same places. (Hint, use the magic terms like "83" and "70" and "55"
                                                                                        and "code" and "HO".

                                                                                        You would see heavier rails on first class railroads with fast heavy
                                                                                        equipment. Lighter for branchlines with slower lighter equipment.
                                                                                        Lighter for sidings. Very early railroads would generally be lighter
                                                                                        rail. Code 100 used to be a very common HO size. The I believe code
                                                                                        70 came along and then code 55. I think code 83 came along later.
                                                                                        Code 83 is a pretty good size for garden variety mainlines. Code 70
                                                                                        is good for branchlines and sidings. Code 55 can be perhaps good for
                                                                                        sidings but it is getting pretty small. It depends on what visual
                                                                                        effect you want.

                                                                                        On to my prior research...

                                                                                        FIRST I POSTED THIS...

                                                                                        I looked this stuff up awhile back and can't quite find the place I
                                                                                        found before. But I did find a place that says this, which sounds
                                                                                        about right for HO

                                                                                        Code 100 - 160 lbs/yard
                                                                                        Code 83 - 132 lbs/yard
                                                                                        Code 70 - 90-110 lbs/yard
                                                                                        Code 55 - 60-75 lbs/yard
                                                                                        Code 40 - 35-50 lbs/yard

                                                                                        Also, the heaviest rail used in North America was by the Pennsylvania
                                                                                        and I have seen 151, 152, 155, and 158 lbs/yard mentioned here and
                                                                                        there. I believe 158 is what I've seen in the model press, but on the
                                                                                        internet 155 lbs seems more authoritative.

                                                                                        THEN I POSTED ALL OF THE FOLLOWING AFTER FINDING ANOTHER OLD POST ON
                                                                                        THE SUBJECT I MADE ON THE AVANTI GROUP. AT THE VERY END I HAVE MERGED
                                                                                        THE INFORMATION INTO MY BEST SUGGESTION. IF THEY AREN'T EXACT, I'M
                                                                                        PRETTY SURE THEY'RE REAL CLOSE...

                                                                                        I found my previous post on another group about weight of HO rail.
                                                                                        Believe it or not, this was information I posted on the "Avanti" group
                                                                                        - for Studebaker Avantis and other Avanti automobiles. Some folks put
                                                                                        a length of railroad rail in the trunk to help the weight distribution
                                                                                        and the issue of rail weight came up. Then somebody making a model of
                                                                                        his Avanti wanted to put a piece of HO rail in the model's trunk for
                                                                                        authenticity. (It isn't only model railroaders that go off the deep
                                                                                        end.) Fortunately, or unfortunately, they have me in the group.

                                                                                        By the way, real railroad rail weight isn't merely a function of
                                                                                        height. It is also a function of other dimensions notably the web
                                                                                        thickness. That is why some of the estimates are ranges.

                                                                                        Here is part of my post from the Avanti group...

                                                                                        ******************
                                                                                        HO rail is noted in "codes". The code is thousandths of inches. It comes
                                                                                        in at least five sizes. I'll make some guesses:

                                                                                        Code, approximate prototype height, weight:

                                                                                        100, 9", 155-170 lb (Some mainline Pennsylvania rail)
                                                                                        83, 7", 132-136 lb (typical mainline)
                                                                                        70, 6", maybe 120 lb (branchline, siding)
                                                                                        55, 5", maybe 100 lb (branchline, siding, older period railroad, logging)
                                                                                        40, 3.5" maybe 70 lb (very light rail)

                                                                                        Some of those are from the NMRA (a model railroad association) and some
                                                                                        are my guesses.
                                                                                        ******************

                                                                                        Well, data isn't quite the same as my just previous G&D post, but it is
                                                                                        ballpark. I think if you take data from my G&D post for the three
                                                                                        smaller sizes, and from the Avanti post for the two larger, you would
                                                                                        have a good estimate.

                                                                                        Combining the more credible of each I now suggest the following for
                                                                                        code, rail height and weight ranges...

                                                                                        Code 100, 9", 155-170 lbs/yd (some mainline Pennsylvania)
                                                                                        Code 83, 7", 132-136 lbs/yd (typical mainline)
                                                                                        Code 70, 6", 90-110 lbs/yd (branchline, siding)
                                                                                        Code 55, 5", 60-75 lbs/yd (branchline, siding, older period railroad, logging)
                                                                                        Code 40,3.5" 35-50 lbs/yd (very light rail)

                                                                                        Chuck Kinzer

                                                                                        > Hi.Does anyone know of an online source that can explain all the
                                                                                        > different HO code track to me?I am clueless as to what it all means.I
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > thought HO was HO.At this point I only have trains,no track
                                                                                        > yet.Thanks
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > SPONSORED LINKS
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Ho scale[1] G scale model train[2] G scale train[3]
                                                                                        > Ho scale model train[4] Ho scale trains[5]
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > -------------------------
                                                                                        > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                                        >
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                                                                                        > [1]
                                                                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ho+scale&w1=Ho+scale&w2=G+scale+model+train&w3=G+scale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&c=5&s=105&.sig=8KOGo_UHbh1z3_tfejZc3g
                                                                                        > [2]
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                                                                                        > [3]
                                                                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=G+scale+train&w1=Ho+scale&w2=G+scale+model+train&w3=G+scale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&c=5&s=105&.sig=jwWwyG6k7w-XKTP_W-OISw
                                                                                        > [4]
                                                                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ho+scale+model+train&w1=Ho+scale&w2=G+scale+model+train&w3=G+scale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&c=5&s=105&.sig=Efz14TYTnr3ek3U3Ki12dw
                                                                                        > [5]
                                                                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ho+scale+trains&w1=Ho+scale&w2=G+scale+model+train&w3=G+scale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&c=5&s=105&.sig=fcEGSsw1wP9YV9MbEbe8sA
                                                                                        > [6] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
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                                                                                        > [8] http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1083 From: Ilcentral@aol.com Date: 3/7/2006
                                                                                        Subject: Re: The old days
                                                                                        Don,
                                                                                        Thank you for the complement.
                                                                                        When you model the Illinois Central you have to learn how to do a lot of things we are not catered to like the Santa Fe modelers or Union Pacific.
                                                                                        In the early days I had to learn how to airbrush and scratchbuild & so on if I did not learn how to do those things I would not have what I do now.
                                                                                        But it is rewarding when you step back after months of work and see what you have
                                                                                        created from scratch.
                                                                                        I still remember my first Athearn unit it was a Milwaukee Road F-7 it was so cool it had silver trucks & a double headlight.........those were fun days.
                                                                                        That's why I like this group.
                                                                                        Again Don Thank you.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        John Pitts
                                                                                         
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1084 From: Glenn Date: 3/7/2006
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Code track?
                                                                                        Rail "code" is the height of the rail in thouisandths of an inch-- code 100 is 0.100" high, Code 83 is 0.083", etc.  Wheel Code is the tire width in thousandths.
                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                        Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 6:23 PM
                                                                                        Subject: [vintageHO] Code track?

                                                                                        Hi.Does anyone know of an online source that can explain all the
                                                                                        different HO code track to me?I am clueless as to what it all means.I
                                                                                        thought HO was HO.At this point I only have trains,no track yet.Thanks




                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1085 From: Glenn Date: 3/7/2006
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Eight Ball Mogul
                                                                                        Well, I just looked at several I have on hand, and there is a store label on each, which wouldn'd do yoiu much good. I see a logo of bHi, in Atascadero, CA as distributor--I think the main brand may be "Jet"--the caps are color coded--the super thin is blue. 
                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                        Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 7:04 PM
                                                                                        Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Eight Ball Mogul

                                                                                        Thanks Glenn
                                                                                        I have enough left of the old drawbar for a pattern. What is the brand
                                                                                        or type of super glue that is thin as water? I want to try that.
                                                                                        Bill

                                                                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > CA is CyanoAcrylate (Super Glue) it comes in different viscosities.
                                                                                        there is one that is as thin as water--perhaps thinner?? thsi flows
                                                                                        nicely into the cracks in defective Zamak/    as I said--if you need a
                                                                                        patttern for the fiber drawbar, send me an ssae. 
                                                                                        >   ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                        >   From: takefive247
                                                                                        >   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        >   Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 7:48 PM
                                                                                        >   Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Eight Ball Mogul
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >   Thanks guys,
                                                                                        >      You have been a great help. Think I found the problem.  The cab is
                                                                                        >   mounted on top of the frame instead of around and under it.
                                                                                        >      Think I'll try the PC board stock for the draw bakelite. Thanks
                                                                                        >   Glenn, and what is CA? Wish I had that before I broke a couple frames.
                                                                                        >   Bill     
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >   --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@> wrote:
                                                                                        >   >
                                                                                        >   > Bill--if you don't fine the fiber plate, send me an SSAE (Glenn
                                                                                        >   Joesten, 3825 Pruett Dr. Yreka, CA 96097-9708) and I'll trace one for
                                                                                        >   you.  Some PC board stock should be fine for making one. THe pin can
                                                                                        >   be replaced with a screw.
                                                                                        >   >
                                                                                        >   > I recall it was available before WWII--possibly 1939 or 40.  Many
                                                                                        >   parts are common with the "Belle of the Eighties" 4-4-0. As far as I
                                                                                        >   know it was not offered painted--there may have been a bottle of paint
                                                                                        >   in the kit. Check the cab mount--I think there is a tab on the front
                                                                                        >   of the cab that should be inside the boiler--soundl like it is on top
                                                                                        >   of the boiler on yours.
                                                                                        >   >
                                                                                        >   > If you have "Zamak Rot" in yours--get the really thin CA and flow it
                                                                                        >   into the cracks. gj
                                                                                        >   >   ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                        >   >   From: takefive247
                                                                                        >   >   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        >   >   Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 4:17 AM
                                                                                        >   >   Subject: [vintageHO] Eight Ball Mogul
                                                                                        >   >
                                                                                        >   >
                                                                                        >   >   Hello
                                                                                        >   >       I have what I believe is a brass Mantua Eight Ball Mogul I
                                                                                        want to
                                                                                        >   >   restore. Doesn't need much more then the fiber coupling plate
                                                                                        and a
                                                                                        >   >   good cleaning. Can someone help me out with a few answers?
                                                                                        >   >      First is an assembly instruction sheet. Anyone have one? I
                                                                                        am a bit
                                                                                        >   >   confused because it looks like a factory paint job but assembled
                                                                                        >   >   incorrectly where the cab attaches, making the boiler be on a
                                                                                        slope.
                                                                                        >   >      Second, when were these manufactured? I have it being
                                                                                        introduced in
                                                                                        >   >   1942 and available at least through 1947 but brass wasn't
                                                                                        available so
                                                                                        >   >   was it made earlier or later?
                                                                                        >   >       Third, how do I give it a good cleaning with out
                                                                                        destroying the
                                                                                        >   >   paint? Has a lot (some) lint and hair in it. Hate to take it
                                                                                        apart, it
                                                                                        >   >   looks so original.
                                                                                        >   >       And lastly, for now, would anyone have an original fiber
                                                                                        coupler
                                                                                        >   >   plate, know where I could get one or some material to make one?
                                                                                        >   >   Thamks
                                                                                        >   >   Bill  
                                                                                        >   >      
                                                                                        >   >
                                                                                        >   >
                                                                                        >   >
                                                                                        >   >
                                                                                        >   >
                                                                                        >   >
                                                                                        >   >   SPONSORED LINKS Ho scale  G scale model train  G scale train 
                                                                                        >   >         Ho scale model train  Ho scale trains 
                                                                                        >   >
                                                                                        >   >
                                                                                        >   >

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                                                                                        >         Ho scale model train  Ho scale trains 
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                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1086 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 3/8/2006
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Code track?
                                                                                        OK, I had a little time to look some more and found the NMRA standards page that is loaded with numbers.
                                                                                         
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Check out Table 2 under the HO column, find a rail height in thousandths, and then find the corresponding weight in that row.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        This is data from the chart for sizes matching, or near, commercial sizes of code 100, 83, 70, 55, and 40.  The prototype reference is in lbs/yd which is the standard measure.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Scale rail height in thousandths, prototype height in inches, rail weight in lbs/yd...
                                                                                         
                                                                                        0.092  8.000" high 155 lbs/yd (considerably smaller than code 100)
                                                                                        0.084  7.312" high 140 lbs/yd (slightly larger than code 83)
                                                                                        0.082  7.125" high 132 lbs/yd (slightly smaller than code 83)
                                                                                        0.069  6.000" high 100 lbs/yd (slightly smaller than code 70)
                                                                                        0.055   4.812" high 75 lbs/yd (code 55)
                                                                                        0.040   3.500" high 40 lbs/yd (code 40)
                                                                                         
                                                                                        For reference, here again are numbers I had previously generated long ago from looking at multiple sources (code, prototype rail height, rail weight) :
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Code 100, 9", 155-170 lbs/yd (some mainline Pennsylvania)
                                                                                        Code 83, 7", 132-136 lbs/yd (typical mainline)
                                                                                        Code 70, 6", 90-110 lbs/yd (branchline, siding)
                                                                                        Code 55, 5", 60-75 lbs/yd (branchline, siding, older period railroad, logging)
                                                                                        Code 40,3.5" 35-50 lbs/yd (very light rail)
                                                                                        I think both sets of data point to similar conclusions.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Of course, code 100 is a little bigger than any real rail.  But it is rugged for modeling.  Many have used it over the years.  If you want to use large rail and don't like the appearance, painting the sides of the rail a dingy rusty dirty color will help disguise its size.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Code 83 seems to have become a very popular HO rail size because, while still large enough to be fairly rugged and easy to work with, it has a much more scale appearance.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        If using sectional track, especially if making a temporary setup that isn't attached to some base, code 100 will easily be more rugged than anything else.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        I don't know if you are near a hobby shop, but if you are, you should be able to see at least a couple of different sizes of track.  And maybe even more sizes of just rail.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Chuck Kinzer
                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                        Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 6:23 PM
                                                                                        Subject: [vintageHO] Code track?

                                                                                        Hi.Does anyone know of an online source that can explain all the
                                                                                        different HO code track to me?I am clueless as to what it all means.I
                                                                                        thought HO was HO.At this point I only have trains,no track yet.Thanks


                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1087 From: Frank Weed Date: 3/8/2006
                                                                                        Subject: Re: notes on the Coffee Mine
                                                                                        Gary & Imp Ster
                                                                                         
                                                                                        It looks like my model railroading days are over with. This past weekend I had a minor stroke. I have made the desision to get rid of a lot of my railroad stuff. Since you all helped me in getting info on the old 3-in-one kits. I have three 26' metal log cars. three of the open skeleton lumber cars and one flat car for sale. I'm asking  $20 for the lot. You can contact me off list at
                                                                                        I know there is ebay , but I don't like to deal with them.
                                                                                        Within the next few weeks I will be going through and getting a list of everything I have.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Thanks for the fun and help.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Frank Weed
                                                                                        MP 254 BNSF Lampasas Sub
                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1088 From: Dave Slater Date: 3/8/2006
                                                                                        Subject: Re: notes on the Coffee Mine
                                                                                        Frank,
                                                                                        Sorry to hear about your health problems and you will be missed around here. There used to be a couple of people around here that belonged to one of the clubs that found model building quite therapeutic after having strokes, those were relatively mild ones so I gather that yours was rather "severe" with a lot of damage..
                                                                                        Wishing you all the best in the future and hope you can regain some of what you have lost mobility wise, the important thing is never give up, miracles can happen........
                                                                                        Dave S.

                                                                                        Frank Weed wrote:
                                                                                        Gary & Imp Ster
                                                                                         
                                                                                        It looks like my model railroading days are over with. This past weekend I had a minor stroke. I have made the desision to get rid of a lot of my railroad stuff. Since you all helped me in getting info on the old 3-in-one kits. I have three 26' metal log cars. three of the open skeleton lumber cars and one flat car for sale. I'm asking  $20 for the lot. You can contact me off list at
                                                                                        I know there is ebay , but I don't like to deal with them.
                                                                                        Within the next few weeks I will be going through and getting a list of everything I have.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Thanks for the fun and help.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Frank Weed
                                                                                        MP 254 BNSF Lampasas Sub

                                                                                        No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.0/276 - Release Date: 07/03/2006
                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1089 From: Bruce Wilson Date: 3/8/2006
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Code track?
                                                                                        At 02:23 08/03/2006 +0000, you wrote:
                                                                                        >Hi.Does anyone know of an online source that can explain all the
                                                                                        >different HO code track to me?I am clueless as to what it all means.I
                                                                                        >thought HO was HO.At this point I only have trains,no track yet.Thanks


                                                                                        At the Model Railroader site

                                                                                        (http://www.trains.com/Content/Dynamic/Articles/000/000/000/347ybfns.asp)


                                                                                        -
                                                                                        Bruce Wilson
                                                                                        Barrie, Ontario
                                                                                        Life Member NMRA Member Gauge 0 Guild Member Scale 7 Group
                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1090 From: wedfrentz@aol.com Date: 3/8/2006
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Code track?
                                                                                        Thanks to all who responded to my question.I am on the NMRA website learning all kinds of new things.
                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1091 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/8/2006
                                                                                        Subject: Re: notes on the Coffee Mine
                                                                                        hi Frank -

                                                                                        sorry to hear the news, but dont give up on us just yet.
                                                                                        remember that most folks do their best railroading from the armchair.
                                                                                        give us a shout when the dust settles, we'l leave a light on for ya.

                                                                                        best wishes, da imp

                                                                                        ...

                                                                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Weed" <busgrouches@...> wrote:
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Gary & Imp Ster
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > It looks like my model railroading days are over with. This past
                                                                                        weekend I had a minor stroke.
                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1092 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/8/2006
                                                                                        Subject: search results for MRC Train Power: zip
                                                                                        thanks to all who advised various search engines, etc.
                                                                                        Dogpile used to be one of the best, but they depend on other search
                                                                                        engines for results (so-called "meta-spider" search), and all that i
                                                                                        was getting was a garbage-load of ads and vaguely-related comments.
                                                                                        on the Internet Archive site, i did find several years worth of
                                                                                        archived MRC pages, but they were so primitive as to be painful to look
                                                                                        at.
                                                                                        (no tech support at all, needless to say.)

                                                                                        however i did get a nice reply from the guy at the "The Gauge" web BBS
                                                                                        and he sez he will get back to me when his stuff is unpacked and sorted
                                                                                        out after a recent move.
                                                                                        will post any info i get on that pack, who knows, others may find it
                                                                                        useful as well.

                                                                                        cheers

                                                                                        ...
                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1093 From: takefive247 Date: 3/8/2006
                                                                                        Subject: Re: The old days
                                                                                        Hey you guys are having fun? Something just ain't right I tell you. I
                                                                                        was all set to do a job today when the customer called to cancel. I
                                                                                        had no other choice then to go and work on that long awaited reverse
                                                                                        loop at the end of the main. There's no justice I tell you but the
                                                                                        plans were set and the bank cleared the finances, so off I went.
                                                                                        That's all the way out by the Town Line so a coffee stop was in order
                                                                                        but when I got to the site the right of way wasn't cleared. First it
                                                                                        was the fax machine. Then the coin collection. Hey this aint easy.
                                                                                        Well, low and behold the town wouldn't let the permit go through so
                                                                                        everything came to a standstill. After some debate the loop was moved
                                                                                        north and work began. Missed lunch but sweezed in another coffee. Then
                                                                                        came that reversing polarity thing. That stuff can drive you nuts. Was
                                                                                        all set for that first train to come through and time to go home and
                                                                                        watch TV. But nooooo. The thing stopped dead. Some clown forgot to put
                                                                                        in a joiner. Well live and learn I guess. Can't wait to get back to a
                                                                                        real fun job, crawling around somebody's basement doing some
                                                                                        sparktricians stuff. I mean who needs a reversing loop? Can't they
                                                                                        just back up? Enough of my complaining. You guys go have your fun.
                                                                                        Bill


                                                                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Ilcentral@... wrote:
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Don,
                                                                                        > Thank you for the complement.
                                                                                        > When you model the Illinois Central you have to learn how to do a
                                                                                        lot of
                                                                                        > things we are not catered to like the Santa Fe modelers or Union
                                                                                        Pacific.
                                                                                        > In the early days I had to learn how to airbrush and scratchbuild &
                                                                                        so on if
                                                                                        > I did not learn how to do those things I would not have what I do now.
                                                                                        > But it is rewarding when you step back after months of work and see
                                                                                        what you
                                                                                        > have
                                                                                        > created from scratch.
                                                                                        > I still remember my first Athearn unit it was a Milwaukee Road F-7
                                                                                        it was so
                                                                                        > cool it had silver trucks & a double headlight.........those were
                                                                                        fun days.
                                                                                        > That's why I like this group.
                                                                                        > Again Don Thank you.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > John Pitts
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1094 From: takefive247 Date: 3/8/2006
                                                                                        Subject: Re: The old days
                                                                                        Hey you guys are having fun? Something just ain't right I tell you. I
                                                                                        was all set to do a job today when the customer called to cancel. I
                                                                                        had no other choice then to go and work on that long awaited reverse
                                                                                        loop at the end of the main. There's no justice I tell you but the
                                                                                        plans were set and the bank cleared the finances, so off I went.
                                                                                        That's all the way out by the Town Line so a coffee stop was in order
                                                                                        but when I got to the site the right of way wasn't cleared. First it
                                                                                        was the fax machine. Then the coin collection. Hey this aint easy.
                                                                                        Well, low and behold the town wouldn't let the permit go through so
                                                                                        everything came to a standstill. After some debate the loop was moved
                                                                                        north and work began. Missed lunch but sweezed in another coffee. Then
                                                                                        came that reversing polarity thing. That stuff can drive you nuts. Was
                                                                                        all set for that first train to come through and time to go home and
                                                                                        watch TV. But nooooo. The thing stopped dead. Some clown forgot to put
                                                                                        in a joiner. Well live and learn I guess. Can't wait to get back to a
                                                                                        real fun job, crawling around somebody's basement doing some
                                                                                        sparktricians stuff. I mean who needs a reversing loop? Can't they
                                                                                        just back up? Enough of my complaining. You guys go have your fun.
                                                                                        Bill


                                                                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Ilcentral@... wrote:
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Don,
                                                                                        > Thank you for the complement.
                                                                                        > When you model the Illinois Central you have to learn how to do a
                                                                                        lot of
                                                                                        > things we are not catered to like the Santa Fe modelers or Union
                                                                                        Pacific.
                                                                                        > In the early days I had to learn how to airbrush and scratchbuild &
                                                                                        so on if
                                                                                        > I did not learn how to do those things I would not have what I do now.
                                                                                        > But it is rewarding when you step back after months of work and see
                                                                                        what you
                                                                                        > have
                                                                                        > created from scratch.
                                                                                        > I still remember my first Athearn unit it was a Milwaukee Road F-7
                                                                                        it was so
                                                                                        > cool it had silver trucks & a double headlight.........those were
                                                                                        fun days.
                                                                                        > That's why I like this group.
                                                                                        > Again Don Thank you.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > John Pitts
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1095 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/8/2006
                                                                                        Subject: Re: notes on the Coffee Mine
                                                                                        That's not the kind of news we like to hear. Please know we'll all be
                                                                                        praying for a full recovery.

                                                                                        Don

                                                                                        don.dellmann@...
                                                                                        http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                        moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO

                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                        From: Frank Weed <busgrouches@...>
                                                                                        To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                        Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 12:08 PM
                                                                                        Subject: Re: [vintageHO] notes on the Coffee Mine


                                                                                        Gary & Imp Ster

                                                                                        It looks like my model railroading days are over with. This past weekend I
                                                                                        had a minor stroke. I have made the desision to get rid of a lot of my
                                                                                        railroad stuff. Since you all helped me in getting info on the old 3-in-one
                                                                                        kits. I have three 26' metal log cars. three of the open skeleton lumber
                                                                                        cars and one flat car for sale. I'm asking $20 for the lot. You can contact
                                                                                        me off list at
                                                                                        busgrouches@... or busgrouches@...
                                                                                        I know there is ebay , but I don't like to deal with them.
                                                                                        Within the next few weeks I will be going through and getting a list of
                                                                                        everything I have.

                                                                                        Thanks for the fun and help.

                                                                                        Frank Weed
                                                                                        MP 254 BNSF Lampasas Sub
                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1096 From: Larry Date: 3/8/2006
                                                                                        Subject: Re: notes on the Coffee Mine
                                                                                        Frank

                                                                                        Sorry to hear about your stroke. Hoping you get well soon. You
                                                                                        might want to wait to see how your recovery will turnout before you
                                                                                        give up on your trains.

                                                                                        Take Care
                                                                                        Larry


                                                                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Weed" <busgrouches@...>
                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Gary & Imp Ster
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > It looks like my model railroading days are over with. This past
                                                                                        weekend I had a minor stroke. I have made the desision to get rid of
                                                                                        a lot of my railroad stuff. Since you all helped me in getting info
                                                                                        on the old 3-in-one kits. I have three 26' metal log cars. three of
                                                                                        the open skeleton lumber cars and one flat car for sale. I'm asking
                                                                                        $20 for the lot. You can contact me off list at
                                                                                        > busgrouches@... or busgrouches@...
                                                                                        > I know there is ebay , but I don't like to deal with them.
                                                                                        > Within the next few weeks I will be going through and getting a
                                                                                        list of everything I have.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Thanks for the fun and help.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Frank Weed
                                                                                        > MP 254 BNSF Lampasas Sub
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1097 From: Jack Priller Date: 3/8/2006
                                                                                        Subject: Re: The old days
                                                                                        Yes, some of us do that "somewhere in between the two" with great
                                                                                        enjoyment. (Said the co-owner of the tin-scale-scenery group.) And
                                                                                        some of that group even use building-shaped-and-decorated cookie and
                                                                                        candy tins, mixed in with Plasticville, Dover paper cutouts, and
                                                                                        ceramic under-the-tree stuff.
                                                                                        In fact, I'm enjoying my Marx stuff so much that I will be un-
                                                                                        loading the majority of my HO stuff on eBay over the coming weeks.
                                                                                        Sorry, but I'll be keeping most of the 'vintage' stuff that I PLAYED
                                                                                        WITH in the early sixties for a small layout that will be mostly my
                                                                                        other hobby 'true love': an operating amusement park.
                                                                                        But Chuck has it right, it should be fun for YOU. My up-dated
                                                                                        version of some o-l-d advice is: "Keep it simple, make it fun!"

                                                                                        Ye Olde Trolleynut

                                                                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Charles E. Kinzer" <ckinzer@...>
                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Hearing things like "stuff has to be painted just so & it has to
                                                                                        be weatherd just right & on.on.on" really gets me on my soapbox.
                                                                                        Perhaps I can say some things that will help. And sorry for the
                                                                                        long post to follow.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > There's a corner of the model railroading world where it is quite
                                                                                        accepted to have that sort of fun. In fact, it's become a rather
                                                                                        big corner. It is "O gauge" Tinplate or Hi-Rail operation.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Tinplate means running stuff without a lot scenery and details -
                                                                                        sort of like how Lionel type trains were intended in the first place.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Hi-Rail means having a realistically scenicked and detailed pike,
                                                                                        except, of course, for the third rail, large flanges, and large
                                                                                        couplers.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Some people do things that are somewhere in between the two.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > A typical person involved in this is probably somebody who can
                                                                                        finally get the Lionel trains they wanted in the fifties. And their
                                                                                        eyes aren't quite as good anymore nor is their dexterity and
                                                                                        patience for detailed modeling. And there is more and more of a
                                                                                        trend toward operating the trains instead of just keeping them
                                                                                        locked away as an investment. Some folks get original Lionel
                                                                                        equipment, some get more recently manufactured Lionel, and many get
                                                                                        from other manufacturers that have cropped up over the years such as
                                                                                        MTH, K-Line, Weaver, Williams, 3rd Rail, and Right of Way. There is
                                                                                        more stuff available now than ever before.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Most importantly, if somebody tells them they must have this
                                                                                        detail or that detail, or that they have a paint scheme fo a road
                                                                                        that didn't remotely have that engine model, their response will
                                                                                        likely be "frankly, I don't give a damn."
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > I prefer modeling HO to good detail and also collect and operate
                                                                                        some 3-rail equipment. But I don't see anything wrong with setting
                                                                                        up HO or any other scale like a "Tinplater" or a Hi-Railer" would.
                                                                                        There may be people that might say you "must" do this or that, but
                                                                                        nothing says we have to listen to them. And that's probably the
                                                                                        key. We don't have to listen to them. We can listen to only
                                                                                        ourselves.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Now, I suspect at least some of the folks into vintage HO are a
                                                                                        little similar to the aging baby boomers and their Lionel. They can
                                                                                        now get the vintage HO that they couldn't afford way back when. (I
                                                                                        myself recently got a Varney berkshire that I drooled over as a kid
                                                                                        but couldn't afford.) Maybe it helps them relive their yourth.
                                                                                        They might make some old craftsman kits that don't have the extreme
                                                                                        (and fragile) detail of some newer offerings. But not all of us
                                                                                        want to make a John Allen caliber layout. Some of us don't want to
                                                                                        make a layout at all.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > An example of a non-detailed HO layout: In his later years, a
                                                                                        friend made a simple layout for my father (who wasn't very handy
                                                                                        with tools) that was a simple loop on a painted board they would set
                                                                                        on the dining room table. They had an Athearn engine and some cars,
                                                                                        and a couple of plastic buildings I built for them, and that's it.
                                                                                        They enjoyed just watching the train go round and round.
                                                                                        Occasionally, the friend would build a new car kit, bring it over,
                                                                                        and they enjoyed adding that to the mix. They would simply use
                                                                                        the "five finger" switcher to make up a train. I'm sure there was
                                                                                        much more going on in their imagination than the plain board on the
                                                                                        table. The friend was a master craftsman with an unusual early
                                                                                        life. He grew up as a small boy traveling in a special C&NW "Signal
                                                                                        Instruction" car because his father was in charge of annual signal
                                                                                        re-training of all C&NW employees. They traveled the whole system
                                                                                        in a car with living quarters crammed into one end. The rest of the
                                                                                        car was set up like a school room for instruction. The man knew
                                                                                        more about railroads than most, but could have fun with simple
                                                                                        models.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > I suspect some just admire the vintage HO for just how much was
                                                                                        accomplished in its day. I sure do. And I'm thankful for it. I
                                                                                        suppose today's HO will be vintage someday when modeling is commonly
                                                                                        done with a computer and a virtually reality visor or something.
                                                                                        And that will become vintage when we can just screw a cable from the
                                                                                        computer directly into our skulls - or better yet go wireless. (You
                                                                                        want weathering? Press "1".)
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > I think that in this hobby, people should do as they please and
                                                                                        not let "rivet counters" or anyone else rain on their parade. If
                                                                                        ever there was a hobby that doesn't have one right answer, this is
                                                                                        the one.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > I think that those days that you miss are still readily available,
                                                                                        if you just choose to live them.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Chuck Kinzer
                                                                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                        > From: Ilcentral@...
                                                                                        > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                        > Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 10:01 PM
                                                                                        > Subject: [vintageHO] The old days
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Hi Group,
                                                                                        > I want to introduce my self my name is John Pitts & I have been
                                                                                        a model railroader for a long time & I started out with HO trains
                                                                                        by Lionel
                                                                                        > I find this group to be very refreshing from the usual MR Yahoo
                                                                                        group.
                                                                                        > Years years ago I would set up my trains in my bedroom and just
                                                                                        have fun so what if my railroad did not have this unit or that car
                                                                                        it was just fun.
                                                                                        > But now my stuff has to be painted just so & it has to be
                                                                                        weatherd just right & on.on.on.
                                                                                        > I miss those days I think it was a lot more fun.
                                                                                        > Thank you for your time & thank you for this great site.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > John Pitts
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1098 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 3/9/2006
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Code track?
                                                                                        Well, the group has probably provided more than enough info on HO track "code" size.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Let us know what you decide to use.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        And if you have any other questions like "nickel-silver vs brass vs steel" or "sectional vs flex-track vs hand-laid" feel free to ask.  Then there is the little detail of switches (turnouts) of different sizes and and types and with or without insulated frogs.  I sense that this group can probably answer any of this stuff and also point you to links and publications.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Chuck Kinzer
                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                        Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 6:23 PM
                                                                                        Subject: [vintageHO] Code track?

                                                                                        Hi.Does anyone know of an online source that can explain all the
                                                                                        different HO code track to me?I am clueless as to what it all means.I
                                                                                        thought HO was HO.At this point I only have trains,no track yet.Thanks

                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1099 From: Gerry D Date: 3/9/2006
                                                                                        Subject: Re: notes on the Coffee Mine
                                                                                        Frank,
                                                                                        I'll drop you a note from my home email.
                                                                                        Gerry

                                                                                        --- Frank Weed <busgrouches@...> wrote:

                                                                                        > Gary & Imp Ster
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > It looks like my model railroading days are over
                                                                                        > with. This past weekend I had a minor stroke. I have
                                                                                        > made the desision to get rid of a lot of my railroad
                                                                                        > stuff. Since you all helped me in getting info on
                                                                                        > the old 3-in-one kits. I have three 26' metal log
                                                                                        > cars. three of the open skeleton lumber cars and one
                                                                                        > flat car for sale. I'm asking $20 for the lot. You
                                                                                        > can contact me off list at
                                                                                        > busgrouches@... or busgrouches@...
                                                                                        > I know there is ebay , but I don't like to deal with
                                                                                        > them.
                                                                                        > Within the next few weeks I will be going through
                                                                                        > and getting a list of everything I have.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Thanks for the fun and help.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Frank Weed
                                                                                        > MP 254 BNSF Lampasas Sub


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                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1100 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 3/9/2006
                                                                                        Subject: Re: notes on the Coffee Mine
                                                                                        Frank I've been away from the group for awhile and I want to say that
                                                                                        I'm sorry to hear about your health problems. just want you to know
                                                                                        you are in my thoughts and Prayers.
                                                                                        Gramps

                                                                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Weed" <busgrouches@...>
                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Gary & Imp Ster
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > It looks like my model railroading days are over with. This past
                                                                                        weekend I had a minor stroke. I have made the desision to get rid of
                                                                                        a lot of my railroad stuff. Since you all helped me in getting info
                                                                                        on the old 3-in-one kits. I have three 26' metal log cars. three of
                                                                                        the open skeleton lumber cars and one flat car for sale. I'm asking
                                                                                        $20 for the lot. You can contact me off list at
                                                                                        > busgrouches@... or busgrouches@...
                                                                                        > I know there is ebay , but I don't like to deal with them.
                                                                                        > Within the next few weeks I will be going through and getting a
                                                                                        list of everything I have.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Thanks for the fun and help.
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        > Frank Weed
                                                                                        > MP 254 BNSF Lampasas Sub
                                                                                        >
                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1101 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/10/2006
                                                                                        Subject: 11th Annual Model Train Show, 3/12/2006, 10:00 am
                                                                                        Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of vintageHO
                                                                                        11th Annual Model Train Show

                                                                                        Sunday March 12, 2006
                                                                                        10:00 am - 4:00 pm
                                                                                        This event does not repeat.

                                                                                        Event Location: Circle B Recreation Cedarburg, WI
                                                                                        Street: 6261 Hwy. 60
                                                                                        City, State, Zip: Cedarburg, WI
                                                                                        Phone: 262-284-5876

                                                                                        Notes:
                                                                                        For the eleventh consecutive year, the METRO Model Railroad Club of Port Washington is hosting its annual railroad show and swap meet on Sunday, March 12th at Circle B Recreation on Highway 60 in Cedarburg. Six model railroad clubs will show layouts in all scales ranging from N gauge to #1 gauge. More than 50 tables of dealers. Admission is $2 children under 12 are free. More at www.metrorrclub.org
                                                                                        --
                                                                                        James Bartelt
                                                                                        jimbartelt@...

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                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1102 From: frank Date: 3/10/2006
                                                                                        Subject: Remember Sunday is the Mother Seaton train show
                                                                                        Yes on this sunday is the once a year Jersey Central Historical
                                                                                        Society yearly show at Mother Seaton high School in Clark NJ. Right off
                                                                                        of the Garden State Parkway.Their will be a gym full of trains and a
                                                                                        cafertia full of Railroadisa. Lots of stuff. The club will have its
                                                                                        white elephant table with their members stuff for sale. It has always
                                                                                        been a good show. Just a few exits south of route 22. For those local
                                                                                        to this," Dont Miss It ".
                                                                                        Have a nice day!
                                                                                        frank o toptrain
                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1103 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 3/10/2006
                                                                                        Subject: Fwd: WS Newletter (Vol. 2 No. 9)
                                                                                        Attachments :


                                                                                          Note: forwarded message attached.


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                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1104 From: frank Date: 3/10/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: The old days
                                                                                          Ok. People out there have made their fealings known. I'm not trying to
                                                                                          sell anything. I just love trains and the excape they give me from the
                                                                                          everyday life I live. No presure. No rulers to measure my stuff against
                                                                                          other stuff. I make my world in HO. Others make theirs. Mine relaxes me
                                                                                          and takes me away from the problums and the turmoil of my everday life.
                                                                                          It has nothing to do with my job. Being so different ,it removes me
                                                                                          form my problums. It gives me a major form of relaxiation. That is what
                                                                                          a hobby is meant to do. Weather running, repairing, restoring, or just
                                                                                          playing with them. My train are magical in their ability to help me
                                                                                          excape from my problums and replace them with very satisfying
                                                                                          experiences. They are completly differert then what I do for a living.
                                                                                          My hobby is cool! A very good thing. Those last 8 word are as simple
                                                                                          as I can put it. I hope others feal the same.
                                                                                          frank o toptrain
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1105 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 3/10/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: The old days

                                                                                          Frank-that’s exactly the way it should be!  If it churns your stomach-it’s no longer a hobby, no longer relaxing.  It’s SUPPOSED to put you in another world, to get your mind off this crazy “real” one we are trapped in!  So enjoy it the way you want to (after all, they are your “toys”!). Everything does not have to look like it is a centerfold for “Model Railroader” magazine.   Regards,  Jerry G.

                                                                                           


                                                                                          From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of frank
                                                                                          Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 8:22 PM
                                                                                          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: The old days

                                                                                           

                                                                                          Ok. People out there have made their fealings known. I'm not trying to
                                                                                          sell anything. I just love trains and the excape they give me from the
                                                                                          everyday life I live. No presure. No rulers to measure my stuff against
                                                                                          other stuff. I make my world in HO. Others make theirs. Mine relaxes me
                                                                                          and takes me away from the problums and the turmoil of my everday life.
                                                                                          It has nothing to do with my job. Being so different ,it removes me
                                                                                          form my problums. It gives me a major form of relaxiation. That is what
                                                                                          a hobby is meant to do. Weather running, repairing, restoring, or just
                                                                                          playing with them. My train are magical in their ability to help me
                                                                                          excape from my problums and replace them with very satisfying
                                                                                          experiences. They are completly differert then what I do for a living.
                                                                                          My hobby is cool! A very good thing. Those last 8 word are as simple
                                                                                          as I can put it. I hope others feal the same.
                                                                                                    frank o toptrain






                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1106 From: Gerry D Date: 3/10/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: The old days
                                                                                          And that's why I told you off-line, Frank, I would
                                                                                          like you to build those kits.
                                                                                          Gerry D


                                                                                          --- frank <toptrain1@...> wrote:

                                                                                          > Ok. People out there have made their fealings
                                                                                          > known. I'm not trying to
                                                                                          > sell anything. I just love trains and the excape
                                                                                          > they give me from the
                                                                                          > everyday life I live. No presure. No rulers to
                                                                                          > measure my stuff against
                                                                                          > other stuff. I make my world in HO. Others make
                                                                                          > theirs. Mine relaxes me
                                                                                          > and takes me away from the problums and the turmoil
                                                                                          > of my everday life.
                                                                                          > It has nothing to do with my job. Being so different
                                                                                          > ,it removes me
                                                                                          > form my problums. It gives me a major form of
                                                                                          > relaxiation. That is what
                                                                                          > a hobby is meant to do. Weather running, repairing,
                                                                                          > restoring, or just
                                                                                          > playing with them. My train are magical in their
                                                                                          > ability to help me
                                                                                          > excape from my problums and replace them with very
                                                                                          > satisfying
                                                                                          > experiences. They are completly differert then what
                                                                                          > I do for a living.
                                                                                          > My hobby is cool! A very good thing. Those last 8
                                                                                          > word are as simple
                                                                                          > as I can put it. I hope others feal the same.
                                                                                          > frank o toptrain
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >


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                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1107 From: Gerry Date: 3/10/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Is there anyone....
                                                                                          Is there anyone that has a copy of the Roundhouse 3 in 1 kit #1507,
                                                                                          the Fire Fighting Train?
                                                                                          And could you scan the full pages of the instrructions and email them
                                                                                          to me?

                                                                                          As an alternate, does anyone have the instructions to loan for
                                                                                          scanning? I don't know when and if I would find the kit on the bay and
                                                                                          my sources don't have any.

                                                                                          I'm trying to post the instructions for the kits for People like
                                                                                          Frank, that are missing the instructions or lost them. I can scan the
                                                                                          instructions from the kits I have, but I don't have the #1507. I'm
                                                                                          posting them at http://ourpage.com/3in1

                                                                                          Cordially,
                                                                                          Gerry D
                                                                                          http://kitbash.ourpage.org
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1108 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 3/11/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Is there anyone....
                                                                                          Gerry:
                                                                                           
                                                                                          I've got kit 1507 mint with the instructions.  And there is also a sheet with them advertising some other items.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          I'll try and scan them today and email them to you off list.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Chuck Kinzer
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          From: Gerry
                                                                                          Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 8:40 PM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Is there anyone....

                                                                                          Is there anyone that has a copy of the Roundhouse 3 in 1 kit #1507,
                                                                                          the Fire Fighting Train?
                                                                                          And could you scan the full pages of the instrructions and email them
                                                                                          to me?

                                                                                          As an alternate, does anyone have the instructions to loan for
                                                                                          scanning? I don't know when and if I would find the kit on the bay and
                                                                                          my sources don't have any.

                                                                                          I'm trying to post the instructions for the kits for People like
                                                                                          Frank, that are missing the instructions or lost them. I can scan the
                                                                                          instructions from the kits I have, but I don't have the #1507. I'm
                                                                                          posting them at http://ourpage.com/3in1

                                                                                          Cordially,
                                                                                          Gerry D
                                                                                          http://kitbash.ourpage.org



                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1109 From: Jack Priller Date: 3/11/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Ebay sale
                                                                                          I have a couple items up on eBay that might interest a few on this
                                                                                          group; items # 6042746546 and # 6042747570.

                                                                                          Ye Olde Trolleynut
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1110 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/11/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Ebay sale
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          From: Jack Priller <westpac67@...>
                                                                                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                          Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 1:18 PM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Ebay sale


                                                                                          > I have a couple items up on eBay that might interest a few on this
                                                                                          > group; items # 6042746546 and # 6042747570.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Ye Olde Trolleynut

                                                                                          Between the PSM line poles and the <OT> records, you've already got my
                                                                                          entire hobby budget for this month. :(

                                                                                          BTW:, the poles came today, thanks, they look better than I expected from
                                                                                          your description. The records haven't come yet, but media mail usually
                                                                                          takes a couple weeks so I'm not expecting them until probably middle or late
                                                                                          next week.

                                                                                          RE: the two die-cast locos on ebay, does the one with the unpainted frame
                                                                                          and belpaire firebox have slots in the frame for three drivers? If it does,
                                                                                          I suspect it COULD be an old Gilbert HO.

                                                                                          I strongly suspect the plastic one COULD be an Athearn. (Perhaps the true
                                                                                          Athern experts on the list could take a look?)

                                                                                          Don

                                                                                          don.dellmann@...
                                                                                          http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                          moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1111 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/11/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Is there anyone.... (MDC - 1507 "Fire Train" data)
                                                                                          Gerry, i've posted preliminary scans of what i found in my archives,
                                                                                          at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mdcroundhouse/files/ - see relevant
                                                                                          folder in Files, top drawer.

                                                                                          these are really lame scans, started at 200 DPI but they pixelated in
                                                                                          reduction.
                                                                                          i was going to do a 400 DPI to grab the photo detail, but wanted to
                                                                                          get these posted for the moment... i fudged a bit with the PaperPort
                                                                                          and final bitmap work to come up with a few improved out-takes of the
                                                                                          proto photos for now.

                                                                                          seems like only yesterday i had 8 gig to spare, and suddenly my hard
                                                                                          drive is choked up on this scan bizness. goes to show!

                                                                                          ...


                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Charles E. Kinzer" <ckinzer@...>
                                                                                          wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Gerry:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > I've got kit 1507 mint with the instructions. And there is also a
                                                                                          sheet with them advertising some other items.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > I'll try and scan them today and email them to you off list.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Chuck Kinzer
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1112 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 3/11/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Ebay sale
                                                                                          Looks like an old JEnglish Hobbyline 0-4-0 Yardbird (plastic version).  The tender actually goes with the Mantua Shifter next to it.  Nice looking parts!
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Yardy
                                                                                           
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 1:58 PM
                                                                                          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ebay sale


                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          From: Jack Priller <westpac67@...>
                                                                                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                          Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 1:18 PM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Ebay sale


                                                                                          >   I have a couple items up on eBay that might interest a few on this
                                                                                          > group; items # 6042746546  and # 6042747570.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Ye Olde Trolleynut

                                                                                          Between the PSM line poles and the <OT> records, you've already got my
                                                                                          entire hobby budget for this month. :(

                                                                                          BTW:, the poles came today, thanks, they look better than I expected from
                                                                                          your description.  The records haven't come yet, but media mail usually
                                                                                          takes a couple weeks so I'm not expecting them until probably middle or late
                                                                                          next week.

                                                                                          RE: the two die-cast locos on ebay, does the one with the unpainted frame
                                                                                          and belpaire firebox have slots in the frame for three drivers?  If it does,
                                                                                          I suspect it COULD be an old Gilbert HO.

                                                                                          I strongly suspect the plastic one COULD be an Athearn.  (Perhaps the true
                                                                                          Athern experts on the list could take a look?)

                                                                                          Don

                                                                                          don.dellmann@...
                                                                                          http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                          moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO



                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1113 From: Jack Priller Date: 3/11/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Ebay sale
                                                                                          Re: the PSM poles, etc. It's such a business doing pleasure with
                                                                                          you. :>))
                                                                                          And the two die-cast locos are both two axle types.

                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
                                                                                          wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          > From: Jack Priller <westpac67@...>
                                                                                          > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                          > Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 1:18 PM
                                                                                          > Subject: [vintageHO] Ebay sale
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > > I have a couple items up on eBay that might interest a few on
                                                                                          this
                                                                                          > > group; items # 6042746546 and # 6042747570.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > Ye Olde Trolleynut
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Between the PSM line poles and the <OT> records, you've already
                                                                                          got my
                                                                                          > entire hobby budget for this month. :(
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > BTW:, the poles came today, thanks, they look better than I
                                                                                          expected from
                                                                                          > your description. The records haven't come yet, but media mail
                                                                                          usually
                                                                                          > takes a couple weeks so I'm not expecting them until probably
                                                                                          middle or late
                                                                                          > next week.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > RE: the two die-cast locos on ebay, does the one with the
                                                                                          unpainted frame
                                                                                          > and belpaire firebox have slots in the frame for three drivers?
                                                                                          If it does,
                                                                                          > I suspect it COULD be an old Gilbert HO.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > I strongly suspect the plastic one COULD be an Athearn. (Perhaps
                                                                                          the true
                                                                                          > Athern experts on the list could take a look?)
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Don
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > don.dellmann@...
                                                                                          > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                          > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1114 From: Don Riley Date: 3/11/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Is there anyone.... (MDC - 1507 "Fire Train" data)
                                                                                          The Fire train is VERY cool!!! I have seen those cars in Roseville several times. Cool that MDC did a model for them!
                                                                                          And the scans are ok. Pictures do take up lots of drive space!
                                                                                          BTW have built one of them?
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Steamengine 4449

                                                                                          Imp Ster <iimpster@...> wrote:
                                                                                          Gerry, i've posted preliminary scans of what i found in my archives,
                                                                                          at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mdcroundhouse/files/ - see relevant
                                                                                          folder in Files, top drawer.

                                                                                          these are really lame scans, started at 200 DPI but they pixelated in
                                                                                          reduction.
                                                                                          i was going to do a 400 DPI to grab the photo detail, but wanted to
                                                                                          get these posted for the moment... i fudged a bit with the PaperPort
                                                                                          and final bitmap work to come up with a few improved out-takes of the
                                                                                          proto photos for now.

                                                                                          seems like only yesterday i had 8 gig to spare, and suddenly my hard
                                                                                          drive is choked up on this scan bizness. goes to show!

                                                                                          ...

                                                                                          __________________________________________________
                                                                                          Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                          Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                                                          http://mail.yahoo.com

                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1115 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/11/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)
                                                                                          ok, you've all suffered thru my previous rants about the decline and
                                                                                          fall of the state of the HO union.
                                                                                          but i thought i was over the worst of it, really i did.
                                                                                          so here i am happily puttering away at my workbench, assembling 4
                                                                                          Athearn boxcars with (GASP!) separate opening doors.
                                                                                          (i'd webcast the event, but you dont want to see me when i'm angry.
                                                                                          heh.)
                                                                                          anyway, so i'm prepping the weights, after cleaning the oily film,
                                                                                          filing the burrs and re-flattening the said "flat steel" weights,
                                                                                          preliminary coating of flat black paint, metal #5 KDs substituted for
                                                                                          the (@$%^&*&) lame EZ-Mates.
                                                                                          one weight drops into place as usual, but the next hangs up, which i
                                                                                          discover after i have applied the 10 drops of ACC... the king-pin
                                                                                          holes are punched too far apart!
                                                                                          does Athearn think we all have a drill press handy?
                                                                                          wtf??
                                                                                          sudenly i am reminded of a pards "conversation" with an actual
                                                                                          Athearn rep at a recent trainshow.
                                                                                          the pard makes his living assembling and painting to order kits.
                                                                                          among which were often, amazingly enough, Athearn kits.
                                                                                          so naturaly pard wants to know Athearn's intentions to the kit
                                                                                          market, re, will kits still be manufactured, esp undecorated, for the
                                                                                          pleasure builders and others.
                                                                                          and the Athearn "rep" is non-commital, arrogant, fidgety, etc. all
                                                                                          the classic signs of a dirty little secret.
                                                                                          finaly the "rep" sez, and ii quote my absolutely-reliable pard
                                                                                          here: "I dont have to have this conversation!", turns on his heel and
                                                                                          walks off into the crowd.
                                                                                          (insert sound of pard's jaw hitting the floor.)

                                                                                          o tay then.
                                                                                          i knew this was coming, did you?

                                                                                          so last week i go to my local hobby shop, looking for any Athearn
                                                                                          remnants of that bygone golden era.
                                                                                          yes there are a few left, so i grab what i can, see above.
                                                                                          then as i am comparing catalog #'s as found at Athearn's OWN website,
                                                                                          many of which are noted with "discontinued", my shop calls the
                                                                                          Athearn - Whorizon warehause to see what if anything they have left.

                                                                                          bingo - you guessed it - hardly anything is left in stock and no more
                                                                                          are expected.

                                                                                          this puts that shoddy weight stamping right into perspective.

                                                                                          and no, i'm not going to waste my time emailing them requesting
                                                                                          status of parts.

                                                                                          so hear me now, pals:
                                                                                          hit your local shops now and get what Blue Box kits you can.
                                                                                          as for the RTR stuff, "competitively priced" at a mere $19.95 for
                                                                                          what used to be a $7.50 kit, spare me the BS.
                                                                                          i got a special steaming load reserved for companies who pander to
                                                                                          the eliti$t "hobbyi$t".
                                                                                          when the only rolling stock worthy of the name can only be had for
                                                                                          over $20, something is rotten in Carson.
                                                                                          (but hey looky there, MR is blaring the latest resin kits, less
                                                                                          trucks or couplers, for a mere $49.95. o tay then. stick a fork in
                                                                                          the hobby and call it passe.)

                                                                                          yeah yeah i know.
                                                                                          all the starving sweathogs in Taiwan need to eat.
                                                                                          but not on my thin dime.

                                                                                          hear that sound? - it's Irv spinning in his grave.

                                                                                          ...
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1116 From: Ilcentral@aol.com Date: 3/11/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)
                                                                                          I have a ton of blue box kits that I want to get rid of.
                                                                                          Is anybody looking for something?
                                                                                           
                                                                                          John Pitts
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1117 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 3/11/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)
                                                                                          That is sad to hear.
                                                                                           Then you have the venders at the shows that are scooping up kits and jacking up the priced.
                                                                                           At a members only swap meet for our club one of the guys had an MDC slope back tender kit, when I asked what he wanted, With a smart tone he said $15. It was all I could do not to laugh in his face.
                                                                                           Looks like rebuilding used equipment bought at shows might be the only option for me to get their products. 
                                                                                           This may be the beginning of the end of the hobbies industry, but it will be the guys like us that will keep this hobby alive.
                                                                                           This hobby survived the depression it will survive cooperate greed.
                                                                                           As much as I love vintage and classic Athearn products, If that is going to be their policy then they just lost another customer.
                                                                                           See what you did, you got me on a rant.
                                                                                          Imp Ster <iimpster@...> wrote:
                                                                                          ok, you've all suffered thru my previous rants about the decline and
                                                                                          fall of the state of the HO union.
                                                                                          but i thought i was over the worst of it, really i did.
                                                                                          so here i am happily puttering away at my workbench, assembling 4
                                                                                          Athearn boxcars with (GASP!) separate opening doors.
                                                                                          (i'd webcast the event, but you dont want to see me when i'm angry.
                                                                                          heh.)
                                                                                          anyway, so i'm prepping the weights, after cleaning the oily film,
                                                                                          filing the burrs and re-flattening the said "flat steel" weights,
                                                                                          preliminary coating of flat black paint, metal #5 KDs substituted for
                                                                                          the (@$%^&*&) lame EZ-Mates.
                                                                                          one weight drops into place as usual, but the next hangs up, which i
                                                                                          discover after i have applied the 10 drops of ACC... the king-pin
                                                                                          holes are punched too far apart!
                                                                                          does Athearn think we all have a drill press handy?
                                                                                          wtf??
                                                                                          sudenly i am reminded of a pards "conversation" with an actual
                                                                                          Athearn rep at a recent trainshow.
                                                                                          the pard makes his living assembling and painting to order kits.
                                                                                          among which were often, amazingly enough, Athearn kits.
                                                                                          so naturaly pard wants to know Athearn's intentions to the kit
                                                                                          market, re, will kits still be manufactured, esp undecorated, for the
                                                                                          pleasure builders and others.
                                                                                          and the Athearn "rep" is non-commital, arrogant, fidgety, etc. all
                                                                                          the classic signs of a dirty little secret.
                                                                                          finaly the "rep" sez, and ii quote my absolutely-reliable pard
                                                                                          here: "I dont have to have this conversation!", turns on his heel and
                                                                                          walks off into the crowd.
                                                                                          (insert sound of pard's jaw hitting the floor.)

                                                                                          o tay then.
                                                                                          i knew this was coming, did you?

                                                                                          so last week i go to my local hobby shop, looking for any Athearn
                                                                                          remnants of that bygone golden era.
                                                                                          yes there are a few left, so i grab what i can, see above.
                                                                                          then as i am comparing catalog #'s as found at Athearn's OWN website,
                                                                                          many of which are noted with "discontinued", my shop calls the
                                                                                          Athearn - Whorizon warehause to see what if anything they have left.

                                                                                          bingo - you guessed it - hardly anything is left in stock and no more
                                                                                          are expected.

                                                                                          this puts that shoddy weight stamping right into perspective.

                                                                                          and no, i'm not going to waste my time emailing them requesting
                                                                                          status of parts.

                                                                                          so hear me now, pals:
                                                                                          hit your local shops now and get what Blue Box kits you can.
                                                                                          as for the RTR stuff, "competitively priced" at a mere $19.95 for
                                                                                          what used to be a $7.50 kit, spare me the BS.
                                                                                          i got a special steaming load reserved for companies who pander to
                                                                                          the eliti$t "hobbyi$t".
                                                                                          when the only rolling stock worthy of the name can only be had for
                                                                                          over $20, something is rotten in Carson.
                                                                                          (but hey looky there, MR is blaring the latest resin kits, less
                                                                                          trucks or couplers, for a mere $49.95. o tay then. stick a fork in
                                                                                          the hobby and call it passe.)

                                                                                          yeah yeah i know.
                                                                                          all the starving sweathogs in Taiwan need to eat.
                                                                                          but not on my thin dime.

                                                                                          hear that sound? - it's Irv spinning in his grave.

                                                                                          ...








                                                                                          Yahoo! Mail
                                                                                          Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.

                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1118 From: Gerry D Date: 3/11/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)
                                                                                          (I jsut deleted most of my rant!)

                                                                                          I just saw the horizon hobby home page and went over
                                                                                          to the ho trains area, are they flocking nutz?!?!?!?!

                                                                                          $224 for a stinking 4-4-0 by Roundhouse!?!?!?!?!?

                                                                                          I hope they sell three.

                                                                                          IMHO, it is not the begining of the end, it's the
                                                                                          begining of telling them where they can shove their
                                                                                          corporate greed. I for one will never buy a new
                                                                                          Athearn or Roundhouse product if it had it's roots in
                                                                                          Horizon Hobbies.





                                                                                          --- Ray Marinaccio <raymarinaccio@...> wrote:

                                                                                          > That is sad to hear.
                                                                                          > Then you have the venders at the shows that are
                                                                                          > scooping up kits and jacking up the priced.
                                                                                          > At a members only swap meet for our club one of
                                                                                          > the guys had an MDC slope back tender kit, when I
                                                                                          > asked what he wanted, With a smart tone he said $15.
                                                                                          > It was all I could do not to laugh in his face.
                                                                                          > Looks like rebuilding used equipment bought at
                                                                                          > shows might be the only option for me to get their
                                                                                          > products.
                                                                                          > This may be the beginning of the end of the
                                                                                          > hobbies industry, but it will be the guys like us
                                                                                          > that will keep this hobby alive.
                                                                                          > This hobby survived the depression it will
                                                                                          > survive cooperate greed.
                                                                                          > As much as I love vintage and classic Athearn
                                                                                          > products, If that is going to be their policy then
                                                                                          > they just lost another customer.
                                                                                          > See what you did, you got me on a rant.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Imp Ster <iimpster@...> wrote:
                                                                                          > ok, you've all suffered thru my previous rants
                                                                                          > about the decline and
                                                                                          > fall of the state of the HO union.
                                                                                          > but i thought i was over the worst of it, really i
                                                                                          > did.
                                                                                          > so here i am happily puttering away at my workbench,
                                                                                          > assembling 4
                                                                                          > Athearn boxcars with (GASP!) separate opening doors.
                                                                                          > (i'd webcast the event, but you dont want to see me
                                                                                          > when i'm angry.
                                                                                          > heh.)
                                                                                          > anyway, so i'm prepping the weights, after cleaning
                                                                                          > the oily film,
                                                                                          > filing the burrs and re-flattening the said "flat
                                                                                          > steel" weights,
                                                                                          > preliminary coating of flat black paint, metal #5
                                                                                          > KDs substituted for
                                                                                          > the (@$%^&*&) lame EZ-Mates.
                                                                                          > one weight drops into place as usual, but the next
                                                                                          > hangs up, which i
                                                                                          > discover after i have applied the 10 drops of ACC...
                                                                                          > the king-pin
                                                                                          > holes are punched too far apart!
                                                                                          > does Athearn think we all have a drill press handy?
                                                                                          > wtf??
                                                                                          > sudenly i am reminded of a pards "conversation" with
                                                                                          > an actual
                                                                                          > Athearn rep at a recent trainshow.
                                                                                          > the pard makes his living assembling and painting to
                                                                                          > order kits.
                                                                                          > among which were often, amazingly enough, Athearn
                                                                                          > kits.
                                                                                          > so naturaly pard wants to know Athearn's intentions
                                                                                          > to the kit
                                                                                          > market, re, will kits still be manufactured, esp
                                                                                          > undecorated, for the
                                                                                          > pleasure builders and others.
                                                                                          > and the Athearn "rep" is non-commital, arrogant,
                                                                                          > fidgety, etc. all
                                                                                          > the classic signs of a dirty little secret.
                                                                                          > finaly the "rep" sez, and ii quote my
                                                                                          > absolutely-reliable pard
                                                                                          > here: "I dont have to have this conversation!",
                                                                                          > turns on his heel and
                                                                                          > walks off into the crowd.
                                                                                          > (insert sound of pard's jaw hitting the floor.)
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > o tay then.
                                                                                          > i knew this was coming, did you?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > so last week i go to my local hobby shop, looking
                                                                                          > for any Athearn
                                                                                          > remnants of that bygone golden era.
                                                                                          > yes there are a few left, so i grab what i can, see
                                                                                          > above.
                                                                                          > then as i am comparing catalog #'s as found at
                                                                                          > Athearn's OWN website,
                                                                                          > many of which are noted with "discontinued", my shop
                                                                                          > calls the
                                                                                          > Athearn - Whorizon warehause to see what if anything
                                                                                          > they have left.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > bingo - you guessed it - hardly anything is left in
                                                                                          > stock and no more
                                                                                          > are expected.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > this puts that shoddy weight stamping right into
                                                                                          > perspective.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > and no, i'm not going to waste my time emailing them
                                                                                          > requesting
                                                                                          > status of parts.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > so hear me now, pals:
                                                                                          > hit your local shops now and get what Blue Box kits
                                                                                          > you can.
                                                                                          > as for the RTR stuff, "competitively priced" at a
                                                                                          > mere $19.95 for
                                                                                          > what used to be a $7.50 kit, spare me the BS.
                                                                                          > i got a special steaming load reserved for companies
                                                                                          > who pander to
                                                                                          > the eliti$t "hobbyi$t".
                                                                                          > when the only rolling stock worthy of the name can
                                                                                          > only be had for
                                                                                          > over $20, something is rotten in Carson.
                                                                                          > (but hey looky there, MR is blaring the latest resin
                                                                                          > kits, less
                                                                                          > trucks or couplers, for a mere $49.95. o tay then.
                                                                                          > stick a fork in
                                                                                          > the hobby and call it passe.)
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > yeah yeah i know.
                                                                                          > all the starving sweathogs in Taiwan need to eat.
                                                                                          > but not on my thin dime.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > hear that sound? - it's Irv spinning in his grave.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > ...
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
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                                                                                          >
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                                                                                          >
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                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1119 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/12/2006
                                                                                          Subject: beware Blue Box speculators! (Sunday Sermon)
                                                                                          behold, i have rant enough, and to spare, for all of ye, my faithful
                                                                                          & beloved Vintage HOers.
                                                                                          (call this my Sunday Sermon, and bear with me, i have been painting
                                                                                          those Athearns without adequate ventilation heheheh)

                                                                                          i, for one, would like to "invest" in as many Blue Box kits as i
                                                                                          could afford, but ONLY if the price is in line with their actual
                                                                                          retail "pre-Horizon-Panic".
                                                                                          this would mean, all standard freight at $7 - $7.50 ea, passenger
                                                                                          cars at $11.
                                                                                          in my dream world, i'd warehouse the lot and sort them out later,
                                                                                          divvy them up with my deseving pals.
                                                                                          but due to the fact that i must "render unto Caesar" almost all my
                                                                                          slave wage for the next 4 years (due to a lil DUI incident steming
                                                                                          from a certain X-mas party gone wild), i must confess that i am out
                                                                                          of the game for the nonce.
                                                                                          poor ol faithful long-suffering Yardy there, had a Mantua logger on
                                                                                          hold for me too, but when this other issue came up, i had to tell him
                                                                                          to let it go.
                                                                                          it will be pushing my budget to get the few sets of valve gear that i
                                                                                          need.
                                                                                          so i must cede my greed to ya'll.

                                                                                          ( $15 for the MDC slope back? har har. that's like .30 worth of
                                                                                          castings.)

                                                                                          to set the stage for my rant here, i was just reading about how the
                                                                                          primary schools are dumbing down the kids by making them read mind-
                                                                                          bending slop, and forbidding real literature such as Grimm's Fairy
                                                                                          Tales.
                                                                                          (page here: http://rense.com/general69/little.htm )
                                                                                          the upshot is, not only is there a War On Terriers, there is also a
                                                                                          war on artistic endeavor and creativity.
                                                                                          so of course these kids are going to be discouraged from building
                                                                                          anything besides virtual reality game rankings.
                                                                                          but the Final Solution for us "olde fartes" who want nothing more
                                                                                          than a reliable & economical system of hobby supplies, for us
                                                                                          dangerous subversives, something else must be done.

                                                                                          so i will faze out my rant with a final observation: there is a queer
                                                                                          sort of evil afoot.
                                                                                          (not gay, evil.)
                                                                                          this i knew when i built the Bowser Northern, several years ago.
                                                                                          most of the kit was "intact" and went together reasonably well.
                                                                                          but certain inequities were present, and the more i studied the
                                                                                          castings, the more i realised that somebody had actually sabotaged
                                                                                          the molds in certain subtle ways, to, evidently, make assembly far
                                                                                          more difficult and frustrating.

                                                                                          k, i can hear you now: yes, da imp is on a roll again!
                                                                                          but hear me out and see if i be sane or not.

                                                                                          most of the Bowser was "par excellante".
                                                                                          i had quibbles with missing metal in the frame, due to inferior
                                                                                          casting pressure, but as it hadnt affected the critical mounting
                                                                                          areas, i let it slide.
                                                                                          then comes the piston rod guides - soft metal castings for some
                                                                                          (expletive deleted) reason, remember this is a high-stress component
                                                                                          subject to velocity issues and great friction, so why are we making
                                                                                          it out of white metal? ..but i digest.
                                                                                          anyway, the parts were deformed as though they had been crushed, i
                                                                                          had to request replacements.
                                                                                          quality control? ...like proof-reading one's commercial webpages, a
                                                                                          lost art.

                                                                                          but, that isnt what clued me in to the evident mold sabotage.
                                                                                          it was the shorty Vanderbuilt tender castings.
                                                                                          one part is a hollow "tube" body, another is the front "face" that is
                                                                                          supposed to fit into the tank with rather close tolerances.
                                                                                          so here i am trying to fit the "face" into the tank body, and it wont
                                                                                          go in all the way.
                                                                                          so i take a closer look on the "face" casting and inside the "tank",
                                                                                          and lo & beholden, some (***) has taken a grinder and scarified the
                                                                                          area of the mold relating to the interior mating edge of the "face",
                                                                                          AND a similar area of the "tank".
                                                                                          the result was, that the parts OEM simply didnt fit any more.
                                                                                          i had to take a file to them to get them to fit.

                                                                                          a small thing, you say.
                                                                                          trivial, not indicative of a trend.

                                                                                          for sure.
                                                                                          agreed.
                                                                                          until i start noticing similar deliberate ruination in other metal
                                                                                          castings spread across the manufacturing spectrum, only metal die-
                                                                                          castings that is, as the "puche" is to go to plastics and the die-
                                                                                          cast industry be damned.
                                                                                          then i start noticing the brain-dead attitude of certain manufactures
                                                                                          when a certain imp made quite sincere inquiries about custom
                                                                                          production runs of certain "die cast" items.
                                                                                          oh, how happy they were to quote me chapter and ver$e regarding
                                                                                          custom pad printed plastic boxcars (non-opening doors, of course.)
                                                                                          but when i inquired as to new tooling for my 1880 2-6-2T project,
                                                                                          suddenly you could hear the crickets chirping.
                                                                                          (i got to give credit to Atlas though, they were very receptive to my
                                                                                          pleas for an RF&P Geep re-issue, and what a fine engine it turned out
                                                                                          to be! ..the local club has several, and it is one of the few modern
                                                                                          locos that i wouldnt mind having a few of.)

                                                                                          ok, enough of a rant to last ya'll a full week.
                                                                                          sorry i didnt have the webcast of train operations tonight; that
                                                                                          Athearn (re)-construction project took all my time.
                                                                                          tonight however (Sunday, 9 PM EST), i should have the trains rolling
                                                                                          and online, and you can even see the very same boxcars i am obsessing
                                                                                          over now, on their break-in loops (& be sure to watch for the hobo
                                                                                          sitting in one of the open doors! ).

                                                                                          ok, i'm all (sorta) better now.
                                                                                          thanks for puttin up with me.

                                                                                          salude!

                                                                                          (zzz)

                                                                                          ...
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1120 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/12/2006
                                                                                          Subject: re, John's ton of blue box kits
                                                                                          hi John, whats the scoop on any hoppers, gondolas or any boxcars (with,
                                                                                          of course, separate doors)... roadnames unimportant.
                                                                                          i am especialy seeking the outside-ribbed shorty hi-cubes.
                                                                                          all the Great Northerns are gone... argh!

                                                                                          btw, any other GN items would be of interest... goats, you know.

                                                                                          cheers

                                                                                          ...

                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Ilcentral@... wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > I have a ton of blue box kits that I want to get rid of.
                                                                                          > Is anybody looking for something?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > John Pitts
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1121 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/12/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Ebay sale
                                                                                          Someone else said the switcher was possibly a HObbyline. I'd believe that.

                                                                                          Don

                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          From: Jack Priller <westpac67@...>
                                                                                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                          Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 11:16 PM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Ebay sale


                                                                                          > Re: the PSM poles, etc. It's such a business doing pleasure with
                                                                                          > you. :>))
                                                                                          > And the two die-cast locos are both two axle types.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
                                                                                          > wrote:
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          > > From: Jack Priller <westpac67@...>
                                                                                          > > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                          > > Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 1:18 PM
                                                                                          > > Subject: [vintageHO] Ebay sale
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > > I have a couple items up on eBay that might interest a few on
                                                                                          > this
                                                                                          > > > group; items # 6042746546 and # 6042747570.
                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                          > > > Ye Olde Trolleynut
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > Between the PSM line poles and the <OT> records, you've already
                                                                                          > got my
                                                                                          > > entire hobby budget for this month. :(
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > BTW:, the poles came today, thanks, they look better than I
                                                                                          > expected from
                                                                                          > > your description. The records haven't come yet, but media mail
                                                                                          > usually
                                                                                          > > takes a couple weeks so I'm not expecting them until probably
                                                                                          > middle or late
                                                                                          > > next week.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > RE: the two die-cast locos on ebay, does the one with the
                                                                                          > unpainted frame
                                                                                          > > and belpaire firebox have slots in the frame for three drivers?
                                                                                          > If it does,
                                                                                          > > I suspect it COULD be an old Gilbert HO.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > I strongly suspect the plastic one COULD be an Athearn. (Perhaps
                                                                                          > the true
                                                                                          > > Athern experts on the list could take a look?)
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > Don
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > don.dellmann@...
                                                                                          > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                          > > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > > co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                          > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                          > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > SPONSORED LINKS Ho scale G scale model train G scale train
                                                                                          > Ho scale model train Ho scale trains
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                                                                                          > a.. Visit your group "vintageHO" on the web.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1122 From: Ilcentral@aol.com Date: 3/12/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: re, John's ton of blue box kits
                                                                                          Cheers,
                                                                                          I will see what I have in G.N.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          John Pitts
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1123 From: Don Riley Date: 3/12/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)
                                                                                          lol on that first. Yeah lots of us could rant on and on about Horizon.
                                                                                          Indeed they are insane. They only care to sell to those with DEEP pockets. To them the rest of us could go to hell. Yeah I am none too happy. I do not buy too many of there new models. The price for lots of them skyrocketed.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Steamengine 4449

                                                                                          Gerry D <gerard_sr@...> wrote:
                                                                                          (I jsut deleted most of my rant!)

                                                                                          I just saw the horizon hobby home page and went over
                                                                                          to the ho trains area, are they flocking nutz?!?!?!?!

                                                                                          $224 for a stinking 4-4-0 by Roundhouse!?!?!?!?!?

                                                                                          I hope they sell three.

                                                                                          IMHO, it is not the begining of the end, it's the
                                                                                          begining of telling them where they can shove their
                                                                                          corporate greed. I for one will never buy a new
                                                                                          Athearn or Roundhouse product if it had it's roots in
                                                                                          Horizon Hobbies.

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                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1124 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 3/12/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)
                                                                                          I agree 110% I don't and won't buy anything from them. I really don't think they're doing anything to help the hobby grow, and if it doesn't grow there goes their business.
                                                                                          Gramps

                                                                                          Don Riley <steamengine4449us@...> wrote:
                                                                                          lol on that first. Yeah lots of us could rant on and on about Horizon.
                                                                                          Indeed they are insane. They only care to sell to those with DEEP pockets. To them the rest of us could go to hell. Yeah I am none too happy. I do not buy too many of there new models. The price for lots of them skyrocketed.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Steamengine 4449

                                                                                          Gerry D <gerard_sr@...> wrote:
                                                                                          (I jsut deleted most of my rant!)

                                                                                          I just saw the horizon hobby home page and went over
                                                                                          to the ho trains area, are they flocking nutz?!?!?!?!

                                                                                          $224 for a stinking 4-4-0 by Roundhouse!?!?!?!?!?

                                                                                          I hope they sell three.

                                                                                          IMHO, it is not the begining of the end, it's the
                                                                                          begining of telling them where they can shove their
                                                                                          corporate greed. I for one will never buy a new
                                                                                          Athearn or Roundhouse product if it had it's roots in
                                                                                          Horizon Hobbies.
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                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1125 From: Don Riley Date: 3/12/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)
                                                                                          So you build them up like I do.
                                                                                          I too paint the weights black. Looks much better then the bare metal! I also put Kadee 5s on them. THey are thee best coupler out there!
                                                                                          In the past I have had a few cars that the weight did not fit on quite right. Not sure what what is up with that! I was able to make it fit.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Not sure what to think of kit production!
                                                                                          I resently got a Rio Grande stock car in one of the new Super Chief boxes. They only had a few stock cars and I did not have one so now I do. And yes the doors still open!!
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Not sure what is up with those bad couplers! Horn hooks were better! I put those plastic knuckles on when they first stared appearing. They worked for a while but are all gone now. Some only lasted a day or two! Now I no longer use them. 
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Oh yes resin kits. Not sure who's bright idea they were! Once you get them painted and lettered I guess they are ok. I never use stock couplers so I would not care about a lack of coupler. Just give them a place to put them.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          As unto that Athearn rep. Not sure what to think of him! He sure is not doing much for the company!!
                                                                                           
                                                                                          And yes Irv would be MAD!!!!!!!
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Steamengine 4449

                                                                                          Imp Ster <iimpster@...> wrote:
                                                                                          ok, you've all suffered thru my previous rants about the decline and
                                                                                          fall of the state of the HO union.
                                                                                          but i thought i was over the worst of it, really i did.
                                                                                          so here i am happily puttering away at my workbench, assembling 4
                                                                                          Athearn boxcars with (GASP!) separate opening doors.
                                                                                          (i'd webcast the event, but you dont want to see me when i'm angry.
                                                                                          heh.)
                                                                                          anyway, so i'm prepping the weights, after cleaning the oily film,
                                                                                          filing the burrs and re-flattening the said "flat steel" weights,
                                                                                          preliminary coating of flat black paint, metal #5 KDs substituted for
                                                                                          the (@$%^&*&) lame EZ-Mates.
                                                                                          one weight drops into place as usual, but the next hangs up, which i
                                                                                          discover after i have applied the 10 drops of ACC... the king-pin
                                                                                          holes are punched too far apart!
                                                                                          does Athearn think we all have a drill press handy?
                                                                                          wtf??
                                                                                          sudenly i am reminded of a pards "conversation" with an actual
                                                                                          Athearn rep at a recent trainshow.
                                                                                          the pard makes his living assembling and painting to order kits.
                                                                                          among which were often, amazingly enough, Athearn kits.
                                                                                          so naturaly pard wants to know Athearn's intentions to the kit
                                                                                          market, re, will kits still be manufactured, esp undecorated, for the
                                                                                          pleasure builders and others.
                                                                                          and the Athearn "rep" is non-commital, arrogant, fidgety, etc. all
                                                                                          the classic signs of a dirty little secret.
                                                                                          finaly the "rep" sez, and ii quote my absolutely-reliable pard
                                                                                          here: "I dont have to have this conversation!", turns on his heel and
                                                                                          walks off into the crowd.
                                                                                          (insert sound of pard's jaw hitting the floor.)

                                                                                          o tay then.
                                                                                          i knew this was coming, did you?

                                                                                          so last week i go to my local hobby shop, looking for any Athearn
                                                                                          remnants of that bygone golden era.
                                                                                          yes there are a few left, so i grab what i can, see above.
                                                                                          then as i am comparing catalog #'s as found at Athearn's OWN website,
                                                                                          many of which are noted with "discontinued", my shop calls the
                                                                                          Athearn - Whorizon warehause to see what if anything they have left.

                                                                                          bingo - you guessed it - hardly anything is left in stock and no more
                                                                                          are expected.

                                                                                          this puts that shoddy weight stamping right into perspective.

                                                                                          and no, i'm not going to waste my time emailing them requesting
                                                                                          status of parts.

                                                                                          so hear me now, pals:
                                                                                          hit your local shops now and get what Blue Box kits you can.
                                                                                          as for the RTR stuff, "competitively priced" at a mere $19.95 for
                                                                                          what used to be a $7.50 kit, spare me the BS.
                                                                                          i got a special steaming load reserved for companies who pander to
                                                                                          the eliti$t "hobbyi$t".
                                                                                          when the only rolling stock worthy of the name can only be had for
                                                                                          over $20, something is rotten in Carson.
                                                                                          (but hey looky there, MR is blaring the latest resin kits, less
                                                                                          trucks or couplers, for a mere $49.95. o tay then. stick a fork in
                                                                                          the hobby and call it passe.)

                                                                                          yeah yeah i know.
                                                                                          all the starving sweathogs in Taiwan need to eat.
                                                                                          but not on my thin dime.

                                                                                          hear that sound? - it's Irv spinning in his grave.

                                                                                          ...


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                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1126 From: Don Riley Date: 3/12/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)
                                                                                          So you build them up like I do.
                                                                                          I too paint the weights black. Looks much better then the bare metal! I also put Kadee 5s on them. THey are thee best coupler out there!
                                                                                          In the past I have had a few cars that the weight did not fit on quite right. Not sure what what is up with that! I was able to make it fit.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Not sure what to think of kit production!
                                                                                          I resently got a Rio Grande stock car in one of the new Super Chief boxes. They only had a few stock cars and I did not have one so now I do. And yes the doors still open!!
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Not sure what is up with those bad couplers! Horn hooks were better! I put those plastic knuckles on when they first stared appearing. They worked for a while but are all gone now. Some only lasted a day or two! Now I no longer use them. 
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Oh yes resin kits. Not sure who's bright idea they were! Once you get them painted and lettered I guess they are ok. I never use stock couplers so I would not care about a lack of coupler. Just give them a place to put them.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          As unto that Athearn rep. Not sure what to think of him! He sure is not doing much for the company!!
                                                                                           
                                                                                          And yes Irv would be MAD!!!!!!!
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Steamengine 4449

                                                                                          Imp Ster <iimpster@...> wrote:
                                                                                          ok, you've all suffered thru my previous rants about the decline and
                                                                                          fall of the state of the HO union.
                                                                                          but i thought i was over the worst of it, really i did.
                                                                                          so here i am happily puttering away at my workbench, assembling 4
                                                                                          Athearn boxcars with (GASP!) separate opening doors.
                                                                                          (i'd webcast the event, but you dont want to see me when i'm angry.
                                                                                          heh.)
                                                                                          anyway, so i'm prepping the weights, after cleaning the oily film,
                                                                                          filing the burrs and re-flattening the said "flat steel" weights,
                                                                                          preliminary coating of flat black paint, metal #5 KDs substituted for
                                                                                          the (@$%^&*&) lame EZ-Mates.
                                                                                          one weight drops into place as usual, but the next hangs up, which i
                                                                                          discover after i have applied the 10 drops of ACC... the king-pin
                                                                                          holes are punched too far apart!
                                                                                          does Athearn think we all have a drill press handy?
                                                                                          wtf??
                                                                                          sudenly i am reminded of a pards "conversation" with an actual
                                                                                          Athearn rep at a recent trainshow.
                                                                                          the pard makes his living assembling and painting to order kits.
                                                                                          among which were often, amazingly enough, Athearn kits.
                                                                                          so naturaly pard wants to know Athearn's intentions to the kit
                                                                                          market, re, will kits still be manufactured, esp undecorated, for the
                                                                                          pleasure builders and others.
                                                                                          and the Athearn "rep" is non-commital, arrogant, fidgety, etc. all
                                                                                          the classic signs of a dirty little secret.
                                                                                          finaly the "rep" sez, and ii quote my absolutely-reliable pard
                                                                                          here: "I dont have to have this conversation!", turns on his heel and
                                                                                          walks off into the crowd.
                                                                                          (insert sound of pard's jaw hitting the floor.)

                                                                                          o tay then.
                                                                                          i knew this was coming, did you?

                                                                                          so last week i go to my local hobby shop, looking for any Athearn
                                                                                          remnants of that bygone golden era.
                                                                                          yes there are a few left, so i grab what i can, see above.
                                                                                          then as i am comparing catalog #'s as found at Athearn's OWN website,
                                                                                          many of which are noted with "discontinued", my shop calls the
                                                                                          Athearn - Whorizon warehause to see what if anything they have left.

                                                                                          bingo - you guessed it - hardly anything is left in stock and no more
                                                                                          are expected.

                                                                                          this puts that shoddy weight stamping right into perspective.

                                                                                          and no, i'm not going to waste my time emailing them requesting
                                                                                          status of parts.

                                                                                          so hear me now, pals:
                                                                                          hit your local shops now and get what Blue Box kits you can.
                                                                                          as for the RTR stuff, "competitively priced" at a mere $19.95 for
                                                                                          what used to be a $7.50 kit, spare me the BS.
                                                                                          i got a special steaming load reserved for companies who pander to
                                                                                          the eliti$t "hobbyi$t".
                                                                                          when the only rolling stock worthy of the name can only be had for
                                                                                          over $20, something is rotten in Carson.
                                                                                          (but hey looky there, MR is blaring the latest resin kits, less
                                                                                          trucks or couplers, for a mere $49.95. o tay then. stick a fork in
                                                                                          the hobby and call it passe.)

                                                                                          yeah yeah i know.
                                                                                          all the starving sweathogs in Taiwan need to eat.
                                                                                          but not on my thin dime.

                                                                                          hear that sound? - it's Irv spinning in his grave.

                                                                                          ...


                                                                                          Yahoo! Mail
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                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1127 From: Rick Jones Date: 3/12/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)
                                                                                          Imp Ster wrote:
                                                                                          <snip>
                                                                                          > hear that sound? - it's Irv spinning in his grave.

                                                                                          At least for the moment, there's still Accurail and Walther's.

                                                                                          --

                                                                                          Rick Jones

                                                                                          Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1128 From: ckinzer@fix.net Date: 3/12/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)
                                                                                          Well, I can understand being upset at change sometimes. But I also
                                                                                          believe in free enterprise and as far as I'm concerned Horizon and
                                                                                          Athearn can do anything (legally) they please. And I can choose to
                                                                                          buy or not to buy. It's a fair system.

                                                                                          If they are leaving some market for another market, and that first
                                                                                          market is at all real, somebody will will almost certainly fill that
                                                                                          hole.

                                                                                          But Horizon's responsibility (and if they are a corporation it is
                                                                                          their legal responsibility) to improve the company equity and not
                                                                                          handle products just to carry on somebody's tradition. They are a
                                                                                          business. And for all I know their business plan will work out very
                                                                                          well for them. Or maybe it won't.

                                                                                          I would have to say that being terse with a customer wouldn't be
                                                                                          something in my business game plan. But if they view somebody as a
                                                                                          "class C" customer (meaning they really don't want that customer and
                                                                                          they cannot economically convert the customer to class "B" or "A")
                                                                                          then it probably won't matter much.

                                                                                          By the way, a class "A" customer in this sense is one where your
                                                                                          product meets there needs, they have the money to pay, and they pay on
                                                                                          time. Every business wants to have class "A" customers and for their
                                                                                          competitors to get the class "C: customers. Their products may well
                                                                                          not suit certain customer's applications (low price, kit form, detail
                                                                                          compromises, whatever) and they won't spend much time trying to sell
                                                                                          to those who are, to them, class "C" customers. But for somebody else
                                                                                          out there that could be a class "A" customer.

                                                                                          Chuck K.

                                                                                          > lol on that first. Yeah lots of us could rant on and on about Horizon.
                                                                                          > Indeed they are insane. They only care to sell to those with DEEP
                                                                                          > pockets. To them the rest of us could go to hell. Yeah I am none too
                                                                                          > happy. I do not buy too many of there new models. The price for
                                                                                          > lots of them skyrocketed.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Steamengine 4449
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Gerry D <gerard_sr@...> wrote:
                                                                                          > (I jsut deleted most of my rant!)
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > I just saw the horizon hobby home page and went over
                                                                                          > to the ho trains area, are they flocking nutz?!?!?!?!
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > $224 for a stinking 4-4-0 by Roundhouse!?!?!?!?!?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > I hope they sell three.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > IMHO, it is not the begining of the end, it's the
                                                                                          > begining of telling them where they can shove their
                                                                                          > corporate greed. I for one will never buy a new
                                                                                          > Athearn or Roundhouse product if it had it's roots in
                                                                                          > Horizon Hobbies.
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1129 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 3/12/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)

                                                                                          Yeah, Imp Ster, just look at the MRR press ads-everything is “turn the box over and it’ll start rolling down your track” stuff.  Twenty years ago, you could not find a “R-T-R” hardly anywhere.  Now –thanks to the “throw money at it” crowd, we are blessed with what you are talking about-not a rea$$$onably priced kit on dealers shelves any more.  I feel sorry for the decal mfr.’s everywhere (and maybe all the airbrush folks-the Bra$$$$ models are already painted and ready to fall out the box and roll down the tracks).  Funny how with all the modern ”conveniences” that many folks these days don’t have the time to enjoy actually building something and saying “ I did it!”  Not sure just what Horizon has on its mind, but it sure has messed up Athearn AND MDC-the customer be da___ed!  JerryG

                                                                                           


                                                                                          From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Imp Ster
                                                                                          Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 11:54 PM
                                                                                          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)

                                                                                           

                                                                                          ok, you've all suffered thru my previous rants about the decline and
                                                                                          fall of the state of the HO union.
                                                                                          but i thought i was over the worst of it, really i did.
                                                                                          so here i am happily puttering away at my workbench, assembling 4
                                                                                          Athearn boxcars with (GASP!) separate opening doors.
                                                                                          (i'd webcast the event, but you dont want to see me when i'm angry.
                                                                                          heh.)
                                                                                          anyway, so i'm prepping the weights, after cleaning the oily film,
                                                                                          filing the burrs and re-flattening the said "flat steel" weights,
                                                                                          preliminary coating of flat black paint, metal #5 KDs substituted for
                                                                                          the (@$%^&*&) lame EZ-Mates.
                                                                                          one weight drops into place as usual, but the next hangs up, which i
                                                                                          discover after i have applied the 10 drops of ACC... the king-pin
                                                                                          holes are punched too far apart!
                                                                                          does Athearn think we all have a drill press handy?
                                                                                          wtf??
                                                                                          sudenly i am reminded of a pards "conversation" with an actual
                                                                                          Athearn rep at a recent trainshow.
                                                                                          the pard makes his living assembling and painting to order kits.
                                                                                          among which were often, amazingly enough, Athearn kits.
                                                                                          so naturaly pard wants to know Athearn's intentions to the kit
                                                                                          market, re, will kits still be manufactured, esp undecorated, for the
                                                                                          pleasure builders and others.
                                                                                          and the Athearn "rep" is non-commital, arrogant, fidgety, etc. all
                                                                                          the classic signs of a dirty little secret.
                                                                                          finaly the "rep" sez, and ii quote my absolutely-reliable pard
                                                                                          here: "I dont have to have this conversation!", turns on his heel and
                                                                                          walks off into the crowd.
                                                                                          (insert sound of pard's jaw hitting the floor.)

                                                                                          o tay then.
                                                                                          i knew this was coming, did you?

                                                                                          so last week i go to my local hobby shop, looking for any Athearn
                                                                                          remnants of that bygone golden era.
                                                                                          yes there are a few left, so i grab what i can, see above.
                                                                                          then as i am comparing catalog #'s as found at Athearn's OWN website,
                                                                                          many of which are noted with "discontinued", my shop calls the
                                                                                          Athearn - Whorizon warehause to see what if anything they have left.

                                                                                          bingo - you guessed it - hardly anything is left in stock and no more
                                                                                          are expected.

                                                                                          this puts that shoddy weight stamping right into perspective.

                                                                                          and no, i'm not going to waste my time emailing them requesting
                                                                                          status of parts.

                                                                                          so hear me now, pals:
                                                                                          hit your local shops now and get what Blue Box kits you can.
                                                                                          as for the RTR stuff, "competitively priced" at a mere $19.95 for
                                                                                          what used to be a $7.50 kit, spare me the BS.
                                                                                          i got a special steaming load reserved for companies who pander to
                                                                                          the eliti$t "hobbyi$t".
                                                                                          when the only rolling stock worthy of the name can only be had for
                                                                                          over $20, something is rotten in Carson .
                                                                                          (but hey looky there, MR is blaring the latest resin kits, less
                                                                                          trucks or couplers, for a mere $49.95. o tay then. stick a fork in
                                                                                          the hobby and call it passe.)

                                                                                          yeah yeah i know.
                                                                                          all the starving sweathogs in Taiwan need to eat.
                                                                                          but not on my thin dime.

                                                                                          hear that sound? - it's Irv spinning in his grave.

                                                                                          ...





                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1130 From: ckinzer@fix.net Date: 3/12/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)
                                                                                          It might not be exactly accurate to say "the customer be da__ed". It
                                                                                          is quite possible that other customers who, for whatever reason don't
                                                                                          want to deal with assembly and painting and decaling, have felt they
                                                                                          were the ones not served until now. And now they are.

                                                                                          I'm still amazed at pre-assembled buildings popping up from so many
                                                                                          places now. And even pre-weathering.

                                                                                          To me, that would mean someone else is enjoying my hobby. But others
                                                                                          just want the "ready to whatever" stuff. That's fine with me.

                                                                                          Chuck K.

                                                                                          > Yeah, Imp Ster, just look at the MRR press ads-everything is "turn the box
                                                                                          > over and it'll start rolling down your track" stuff. Twenty years ago, you
                                                                                          > could not find a "R-T-R" hardly anywhere. Now -thanks to the "throw money
                                                                                          > at it" crowd, we are blessed with what you are talking about-not a
                                                                                          > rea$$$onably priced kit on dealers shelves any more. I feel sorry for the
                                                                                          > decal mfr.'s everywhere (and maybe all the airbrush folks-the Bra$$$$ models
                                                                                          > are already painted and ready to fall out the box and roll down the tracks).
                                                                                          > Funny how with all the modern "conveniences" that many folks these days
                                                                                          > don't have the time to enjoy actually building something and saying " I did
                                                                                          > it!" Not sure just what Horizon has on its mind, but it sure has messed up
                                                                                          > Athearn AND MDC-the customer be da___ed! JerryG
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > _____
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                                                                          > Of Imp Ster
                                                                                          > Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 11:54 PM
                                                                                          > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > Subject: [vintageHO] Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in
                                                                                          > decline)
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > ok, you've all suffered thru my previous rants about the decline and
                                                                                          > fall of the state of the HO union.
                                                                                          > but i thought i was over the worst of it, really i did.
                                                                                          > so here i am happily puttering away at my workbench, assembling 4
                                                                                          > Athearn boxcars with (GASP!) separate opening doors.
                                                                                          > (i'd webcast the event, but you dont want to see me when i'm angry.
                                                                                          > heh.)
                                                                                          > anyway, so i'm prepping the weights, after cleaning the oily film,
                                                                                          > filing the burrs and re-flattening the said "flat steel" weights,
                                                                                          > preliminary coating of flat black paint, metal #5 KDs substituted for
                                                                                          > the (@$%^&*&) lame EZ-Mates.
                                                                                          > one weight drops into place as usual, but the next hangs up, which i
                                                                                          > discover after i have applied the 10 drops of ACC... the king-pin
                                                                                          > holes are punched too far apart!
                                                                                          > does Athearn think we all have a drill press handy?
                                                                                          > wtf??
                                                                                          > sudenly i am reminded of a pards "conversation" with an actual
                                                                                          > Athearn rep at a recent trainshow.
                                                                                          > the pard makes his living assembling and painting to order kits.
                                                                                          > among which were often, amazingly enough, Athearn kits.
                                                                                          > so naturaly pard wants to know Athearn's intentions to the kit
                                                                                          > market, re, will kits still be manufactured, esp undecorated, for the
                                                                                          > pleasure builders and others.
                                                                                          > and the Athearn "rep" is non-commital, arrogant, fidgety, etc. all
                                                                                          > the classic signs of a dirty little secret.
                                                                                          > finaly the "rep" sez, and ii quote my absolutely-reliable pard
                                                                                          > here: "I dont have to have this conversation!", turns on his heel and
                                                                                          > walks off into the crowd.
                                                                                          > (insert sound of pard's jaw hitting the floor.)
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > o tay then.
                                                                                          > i knew this was coming, did you?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > so last week i go to my local hobby shop, looking for any Athearn
                                                                                          > remnants of that bygone golden era.
                                                                                          > yes there are a few left, so i grab what i can, see above.
                                                                                          > then as i am comparing catalog #'s as found at Athearn's OWN website,
                                                                                          > many of which are noted with "discontinued", my shop calls the
                                                                                          > Athearn - Whorizon warehause to see what if anything they have left.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > bingo - you guessed it - hardly anything is left in stock and no more
                                                                                          > are expected.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > this puts that shoddy weight stamping right into perspective.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > and no, i'm not going to waste my time emailing them requesting
                                                                                          > status of parts.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > so hear me now, pals:
                                                                                          > hit your local shops now and get what Blue Box kits you can.
                                                                                          > as for the RTR stuff, "competitively priced" at a mere $19.95 for
                                                                                          > what used to be a $7.50 kit, spare me the BS.
                                                                                          > i got a special steaming load reserved for companies who pander to
                                                                                          > the eliti$t "hobbyi$t".
                                                                                          > when the only rolling stock worthy of the name can only be had for
                                                                                          > over $20, something is rotten in Carson.
                                                                                          > (but hey looky there, MR is blaring the latest resin kits, less
                                                                                          > trucks or couplers, for a mere $49.95. o tay then. stick a fork in
                                                                                          > the hobby and call it passe.)
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > yeah yeah i know.
                                                                                          > all the starving sweathogs in Taiwan need to eat.
                                                                                          > but not on my thin dime.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > hear that sound? - it's Irv spinning in his grave.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1131 From: Gerry D Date: 3/12/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)
                                                                                          Again I held my tongue, I deleted one hell of a
                                                                                          rant....

                                                                                          I'll reprint only the last line here:

                                                                                          The blow struck by Horizon Hobbies attitude and
                                                                                          pricing will indeed hurt the hobby.

                                                                                          Cordially,
                                                                                          Gerry D


                                                                                          --- ckinzer@... wrote:

                                                                                          > Well, I can understand being upset at change
                                                                                          > sometimes. But I also
                                                                                          > believe in free enterprise and as far as I'm
                                                                                          > concerned Horizon and
                                                                                          > Athearn can do anything (legally) they please. And
                                                                                          > I can choose to
                                                                                          > buy or not to buy. It's a fair system.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > If they are leaving some market for another market,
                                                                                          > and that first
                                                                                          > market is at all real, somebody will will almost
                                                                                          > certainly fill that
                                                                                          > hole.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > But Horizon's responsibility (and if they are a
                                                                                          > corporation it is
                                                                                          > their legal responsibility) to improve the company
                                                                                          > equity and not
                                                                                          > handle products just to carry on somebody's
                                                                                          > tradition. They are a
                                                                                          > business. And for all I know their business plan
                                                                                          > will work out very
                                                                                          > well for them. Or maybe it won't.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > I would have to say that being terse with a customer
                                                                                          > wouldn't be
                                                                                          > something in my business game plan. But if they
                                                                                          > view somebody as a
                                                                                          > "class C" customer (meaning they really don't want
                                                                                          > that customer and
                                                                                          > they cannot economically convert the customer to
                                                                                          > class "B" or "A")
                                                                                          > then it probably won't matter much.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > By the way, a class "A" customer in this sense is
                                                                                          > one where your
                                                                                          > product meets there needs, they have the money to
                                                                                          > pay, and they pay on
                                                                                          > time. Every business wants to have class "A"
                                                                                          > customers and for their
                                                                                          > competitors to get the class "C: customers. Their
                                                                                          > products may well
                                                                                          > not suit certain customer's applications (low price,
                                                                                          > kit form, detail
                                                                                          > compromises, whatever) and they won't spend much
                                                                                          > time trying to sell
                                                                                          > to those who are, to them, class "C" customers. But
                                                                                          > for somebody else
                                                                                          > out there that could be a class "A" customer.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Chuck K.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > > lol on that first. Yeah lots of us could rant on
                                                                                          > and on about Horizon.
                                                                                          > > Indeed they are insane. They only care to sell
                                                                                          > to those with DEEP
                                                                                          > > pockets. To them the rest of us could go to hell.
                                                                                          > Yeah I am none too
                                                                                          > > happy. I do not buy too many of there new models.
                                                                                          > The price for
                                                                                          > > lots of them skyrocketed.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > Steamengine 4449
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > Gerry D <gerard_sr@...> wrote:
                                                                                          > > (I jsut deleted most of my rant!)
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > I just saw the horizon hobby home page and went
                                                                                          > over
                                                                                          > > to the ho trains area, are they flocking
                                                                                          > nutz?!?!?!?!
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > $224 for a stinking 4-4-0 by Roundhouse!?!?!?!?!?
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > I hope they sell three.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > IMHO, it is not the begining of the end, it's the
                                                                                          > > begining of telling them where they can shove
                                                                                          > their
                                                                                          > > corporate greed. I for one will never buy a new
                                                                                          > > Athearn or Roundhouse product if it had it's roots
                                                                                          > in
                                                                                          > > Horizon Hobbies.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >


                                                                                          __________________________________________________
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                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1132 From: Gerry D Date: 3/12/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)
                                                                                          --- ckinzer@... wrote:

                                                                                          > It might not be exactly accurate to say "the
                                                                                          > customer be da__ed". It
                                                                                          > is quite possible that other customers who, for
                                                                                          > whatever reason don't
                                                                                          > want to deal with assembly and painting and
                                                                                          > decaling, have felt they
                                                                                          > were the ones not served until now. And now they
                                                                                          > are.
                                                                                          _______________________________________________________
                                                                                          Good point, but the customer, the long time customer
                                                                                          that had a pleasure in shaking the box is now d@mmed.
                                                                                          It was a pleasure to shake the box and get a piece of
                                                                                          rolling stock. If you wanted a different lettering
                                                                                          scheme, you stripped the paint, didn't come out right,
                                                                                          you could buy another and try again.

                                                                                          It is my experience that pre-assembled things like
                                                                                          this will not yield to prying and popping out rivets
                                                                                          to get at the raw car to go through the process of
                                                                                          repainting it. It's also my experience that my wallet,
                                                                                          soon to be one of a retired person, won't stand the
                                                                                          strain either.

                                                                                          The change just might be good. We could return to the
                                                                                          cardboard houses and share PDF files of home brew
                                                                                          plans and cutouts made out of pizza boxes. Watch for
                                                                                          more articles in your favorite RR magazine on how to
                                                                                          carve a 4-4-0 out of a chunk of brass. Easy, just
                                                                                          remove the areas that are not a 4-4-0.

                                                                                          Better yet, computers are here! There's a new strong
                                                                                          following for virtual railroading. Build a layout,
                                                                                          sure, just park one's arse in a computer chair and
                                                                                          spend hours designing it and then running it. Buy from
                                                                                          Horizon, Walthers or the others, nawh, I can make my
                                                                                          own virtual world and all others can go, well you know
                                                                                          where.

                                                                                          The old way of the hobby of model trains is not really
                                                                                          in danger. The high costs of Horizon Hobbies will not
                                                                                          stop me. I will buy from others. I will continue to
                                                                                          buy and read MR magazines; I will continue to “wow”
                                                                                          over others accomplishments. I will continue to try
                                                                                          and make some minor accomplishments that others,
                                                                                          politely, will “wow” over. I will strive to be a part
                                                                                          of the secret brotherhood of people that play with
                                                                                          trains. Their unwritten rules say not to nit-pick
                                                                                          excessively, offer only constructive criticism if it
                                                                                          is received as it was intended and will likewise
                                                                                          accept such criticism. I will vow to enjoy myself and
                                                                                          help others to enjoy themselves as I can.

                                                                                          Cordially
                                                                                          Gerry D.
                                                                                          *(sorry for butting in the middle of your message, but
                                                                                          that seemed the right place to put it! :-)
                                                                                          _______________________________________________________

                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > I'm still amazed at pre-assembled buildings popping
                                                                                          > up from so many
                                                                                          > places now. And even pre-weathering.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > To me, that would mean someone else is enjoying my
                                                                                          > hobby. But others
                                                                                          > just want the "ready to whatever" stuff. That's
                                                                                          > fine with me.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Chuck K.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > > Yeah, Imp Ster, just look at the MRR press
                                                                                          > ads-everything is "turn the box
                                                                                          > > over and it'll start rolling down your track"
                                                                                          > stuff. Twenty years ago, you
                                                                                          > > could not find a "R-T-R" hardly anywhere. Now
                                                                                          > -thanks to the "throw money
                                                                                          > > at it" crowd, we are blessed with what you are
                                                                                          > talking about-not a
                                                                                          > > rea$$$onably priced kit on dealers shelves any
                                                                                          > more. I feel sorry for the
                                                                                          > > decal mfr.'s everywhere (and maybe all the
                                                                                          > airbrush folks-the Bra$$$$ models
                                                                                          > > are already painted and ready to fall out the box
                                                                                          > and roll down the tracks).
                                                                                          > > Funny how with all the modern "conveniences" that
                                                                                          > many folks these days
                                                                                          > > don't have the time to enjoy actually building
                                                                                          > something and saying " I did
                                                                                          > > it!" Not sure just what Horizon has on its mind,
                                                                                          > but it sure has messed up
                                                                                          > > Athearn AND MDC-the customer be da___ed! JerryG
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > _____
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                                                                          > > Of Imp Ster
                                                                                          > > Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 11:54 PM
                                                                                          > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > > Subject: [vintageHO] Rant Alert: fear & loathing
                                                                                          > in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in
                                                                                          > > decline)
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > ok, you've all suffered thru my previous rants
                                                                                          > about the decline and
                                                                                          > > fall of the state of the HO union.
                                                                                          > > but i thought i was over the worst of it, really i
                                                                                          > did.
                                                                                          > > so here i am happily puttering away at my
                                                                                          > workbench, assembling 4
                                                                                          > > Athearn boxcars with (GASP!) separate opening
                                                                                          > doors.
                                                                                          > > (i'd webcast the event, but you dont want to see
                                                                                          > me when i'm angry.
                                                                                          > > heh.)
                                                                                          > > anyway, so i'm prepping the weights, after
                                                                                          > cleaning the oily film,
                                                                                          > > filing the burrs and re-flattening the said "flat
                                                                                          > steel" weights,
                                                                                          > > preliminary coating of flat black paint, metal #5
                                                                                          > KDs substituted for
                                                                                          > > the (@$%^&*&) lame EZ-Mates.
                                                                                          > > one weight drops into place as usual, but the next
                                                                                          > hangs up, which i
                                                                                          > > discover after i have applied the 10 drops of
                                                                                          > ACC... the king-pin
                                                                                          > > holes are punched too far apart!
                                                                                          > > does Athearn think we all have a drill press
                                                                                          > handy?
                                                                                          > > wtf??
                                                                                          > > sudenly i am reminded of a pards "conversation"
                                                                                          > with an actual
                                                                                          > > Athearn rep at a recent trainshow.
                                                                                          > > the pard makes his living assembling and painting
                                                                                          > to order kits.
                                                                                          > > among which were often, amazingly enough, Athearn
                                                                                          > kits.
                                                                                          > > so naturaly pard wants to know Athearn's
                                                                                          > intentions to the kit
                                                                                          > > market, re, will kits still be manufactured, esp
                                                                                          > undecorated, for the
                                                                                          > > pleasure builders and others.
                                                                                          > > and the Athearn "rep" is non-commital, arrogant,
                                                                                          > fidgety, etc. all
                                                                                          > > the classic signs of a dirty little secret.
                                                                                          > > finaly the "rep" sez, and ii quote my
                                                                                          > absolutely-reliable pard
                                                                                          > > here: "I dont have to have this conversation!",
                                                                                          > turns on his heel and
                                                                                          > > walks off into the crowd.
                                                                                          > > (insert sound of pard's jaw hitting the floor.)
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > o tay then.
                                                                                          > > i knew this was coming, did you?
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > so last week i go to my local hobby shop, looking
                                                                                          > for any Athearn
                                                                                          > > remnants of that bygone golden era.
                                                                                          > > yes there are a few left, so i grab what i can,
                                                                                          > see above.
                                                                                          > > then as i am comparing catalog #'s as found at
                                                                                          > Athearn's OWN website,
                                                                                          > > many of which are noted with "discontinued", my
                                                                                          > shop calls the
                                                                                          > > Athearn - Whorizon warehause to see what if
                                                                                          > anything they have left.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > bingo - you guessed it - hardly anything is left
                                                                                          > in stock and no more
                                                                                          > > are expected.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > this puts that shoddy weight stamping right into
                                                                                          > perspective.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > and no, i'm not going to waste my time emailing
                                                                                          > them requesting
                                                                                          > > status of parts.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > so hear me now, pals:
                                                                                          > > hit your local shops now and get what Blue Box
                                                                                          > kits you can.
                                                                                          > > as for the RTR stuff, "competitively priced" at a
                                                                                          > mere $19.95 for
                                                                                          > > what used to be a $7.50 kit, spare me the BS.
                                                                                          > > i got a special steaming load reserved for
                                                                                          > companies who pander to
                                                                                          > > the eliti$t "hobbyi$t".
                                                                                          > > when the only rolling stock worthy of the name can
                                                                                          > only be had for
                                                                                          > > over $20, something is rotten in Carson.
                                                                                          > > (but hey looky there, MR is blaring the latest
                                                                                          > resin kits, less
                                                                                          > > trucks or couplers, for a mere $49.95. o tay then.
                                                                                          > stick a fork in
                                                                                          > > the hobby and call it passe.)
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > yeah yeah i know.
                                                                                          > > all the starving sweathogs in Taiwan need to eat.
                                                                                          > > but not on my thin dime.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > hear that sound? - it's Irv spinning in his grave.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >


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                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1133 From: Glenn Date: 3/12/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)
                                                                                          Of course, I'll bet those bra$$ models still have parts falling off--only now you totally screw up the paint fixing them. (I had this discussion with the late Bob Longnecker of PFM when Samhongsa hunmg up delivery of an over-=run of the O Scale D&SL 2-6-6-0's--they wanted a higher price for a few extra locos--Bob already had accepted payment for them--at the original price--Sam offered to paint the new ones--I made that remark to Bob about the loose parts--he said, "that's a low blow, but you're rightI wound up getting my loco at original price, only 13 months late--took me 3 hours per side to put the raised numbers on the cab--which I know Samhongsa wouldn't have done--
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 5:24 PM
                                                                                          Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)

                                                                                          Yeah, Imp Ster, just look at the MRR press ads-everything is “turn the box over and it’ll start rolling down your track” stuff.  Twenty years ago, you could not find a “R-T-R” hardly anywhere.  Now –thanks to the “throw money at it” crowd, we are blessed with what you are talking about-not a rea$$$onably priced kit on dealers shelves any more.  I feel sorry for the decal mfr.’s everywhere (and maybe all the airbrush folks-the Bra$$$$ models are already painted and ready to fall out the box and roll down the tracks).  Funny how with all the modern ”conveniences” that many folks these days don’t have the time to enjoy actually building something and saying “ I did it!”  Not sure just what Horizon has on its mind, but it sure has messed up Athearn AND MDC-the customer be da___ed!  JerryG

                                                                                           


                                                                                          From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Imp Ster
                                                                                          Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 11:54 PM
                                                                                          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)

                                                                                           

                                                                                          ok, you've all suffered thru my previous rants about the decline and
                                                                                          fall of the state of the HO union.
                                                                                          but i thought i was over the worst of it, really i did.
                                                                                          so here i am happily puttering away at my workbench, assembling 4
                                                                                          Athearn boxcars with (GASP!) separate opening doors.
                                                                                          (i'd webcast the event, but you dont want to see me when i'm angry.
                                                                                          heh.)
                                                                                          anyway, so i'm prepping the weights, after cleaning the oily film,
                                                                                          filing the burrs and re-flattening the said "flat steel" weights,
                                                                                          preliminary coating of flat black paint, metal #5 KDs substituted for
                                                                                          the (@$%^&*&) lame EZ-Mates.
                                                                                          one weight drops into place as usual, but the next hangs up, which i
                                                                                          discover after i have applied the 10 drops of ACC... the king-pin
                                                                                          holes are punched too far apart!
                                                                                          does Athearn think we all have a drill press handy?
                                                                                          wtf??
                                                                                          sudenly i am reminded of a pards "conversation" with an actual
                                                                                          Athearn rep at a recent trainshow.
                                                                                          the pard makes his living assembling and painting to order kits.
                                                                                          among which were often, amazingly enough, Athearn kits.
                                                                                          so naturaly pard wants to know Athearn's intentions to the kit
                                                                                          market, re, will kits still be manufactured, esp undecorated, for the
                                                                                          pleasure builders and others.
                                                                                          and the Athearn "rep" is non-commital, arrogant, fidgety, etc. all
                                                                                          the classic signs of a dirty little secret.
                                                                                          finaly the "rep" sez, and ii quote my absolutely-reliable pard
                                                                                          here: "I dont have to have this conversation!", turns on his heel and
                                                                                          walks off into the crowd.
                                                                                          (insert sound of pard's jaw hitting the floor.)

                                                                                          o tay then.
                                                                                          i knew this was coming, did you?

                                                                                          so last week i go to my local hobby shop, looking for any Athearn
                                                                                          remnants of that bygone golden era.
                                                                                          yes there are a few left, so i grab what i can, see above.
                                                                                          then as i am comparing catalog #'s as found at Athearn's OWN website,
                                                                                          many of which are noted with "discontinued", my shop calls the
                                                                                          Athearn - Whorizon warehause to see what if anything they have left.

                                                                                          bingo - you guessed it - hardly anything is left in stock and no more
                                                                                          are expected.

                                                                                          this puts that shoddy weight stamping right into perspective.

                                                                                          and no, i'm not going to waste my time emailing them requesting
                                                                                          status of parts.

                                                                                          so hear me now, pals:
                                                                                          hit your local shops now and get what Blue Box kits you can.
                                                                                          as for the RTR stuff, "competitively priced" at a mere $19.95 for
                                                                                          what used to be a $7.50 kit, spare me the BS.
                                                                                          i got a special steaming load reserved for companies who pander to
                                                                                          the eliti$t "hobbyi$t".
                                                                                          when the only rolling stock worthy of the name can only be had for
                                                                                          over $20, something is rotten in Carson .
                                                                                          (but hey looky there, MR is blaring the latest resin kits, less
                                                                                          trucks or couplers, for a mere $49.95. o tay then. stick a fork in
                                                                                          the hobby and call it passe.)

                                                                                          yeah yeah i know.
                                                                                          all the starving sweathogs in Taiwan need to eat.
                                                                                          but not on my thin dime.

                                                                                          hear that sound? - it's Irv spinning in his grave.

                                                                                          ...





                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1134 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/12/2006
                                                                                          Subject: stoking the coals to heap on the unsaved RTR heads
                                                                                          heh, looks like i really ignited a fire-storm of comment, but that
                                                                                          after all is why i lurk here.
                                                                                          this Group is about the closest thing to a religion that i have going
                                                                                          now, excepting my goat rescue groups heheh.

                                                                                          Sunday evening, 11:11 pm (the time is twin tracks - time to start
                                                                                          runing trains!), do you know where your fishplates are?

                                                                                          dont delete your rants, Gerry... its up to us to wake the slumbering
                                                                                          beasties.
                                                                                          ("Easy, just remove the areas that are not a 4-4-0." hahahah...
                                                                                          ROFLMAO of the day)

                                                                                          weekends are always a grim reminder of these changing times in the
                                                                                          hobby.
                                                                                          time was, the train shops would be swarming with dads (and moms) and
                                                                                          son (and daughters) looking for the latest kit or idea.
                                                                                          the Design Preservation rack was always a scene of intense interest.
                                                                                          now its all about R/C.
                                                                                          i dropped by my usual haunt to see whats was cooking, and there were
                                                                                          the forlorn remnants gathered around the "cracker barrel".
                                                                                          maybe they should start calling us the "Vintage Operators of HO".

                                                                                          speaking of parked arses and missed marketing opportunitys, i noticed
                                                                                          an interesting development in tiny R/C vehicles.
                                                                                          perhaps you all have also seen these at WalMarts and other toy
                                                                                          stores; so let me compare road apples to orangutangs.
                                                                                          if Walthers can put out a purty lil Ford F-150 kit (even comes with
                                                                                          Ford-approved red tail-light lenses - oh joy!) but it's a static
                                                                                          model, yes the one for $19.95 or so, why should i ignore the fully
                                                                                          functional Fwd-Rvrs Horn Lights even SOUND equipped R/C cars and
                                                                                          trucks very near to HO scale that can be had at Wallys for
                                                                                          $11.95 ?!?!?!?

                                                                                          time was, i would have been proud to slave away in some Walthers
                                                                                          cubby or warehouse, doing my bit to promote the hobby.
                                                                                          Mantua repair tech - ? i'd almost pay them to let me do it.
                                                                                          Athearn too, back in THAT day.
                                                                                          but they had their chance at me and lost it. now, i will be like
                                                                                          Henny Penny:
                                                                                          (who will help me plant/water/harvest/grind/bake the corn? "..not i",
                                                                                          said the Walthers - Horizon foxes. and then comes time to eat the
                                                                                          corn cake... guess who is NOT coming to dinner? ..if the Lord be
                                                                                          willing and the economy creek dont rise, i will retire the King Of
                                                                                          All DieCast... heheheh)

                                                                                          btw, da imp's railraoady webcam is standing by, i am oiling the
                                                                                          boxcabs now, trains will begin to run shortly, for a few hours from
                                                                                          presently til about 2AM EST.)

                                                                                          cheers

                                                                                          ...
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1135 From: Tom Date: 3/12/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)
                                                                                          Hmmmm, maybe its time to dig out and dust off that box of old (dare
                                                                                          I say it) Tyco cars from the early 70's that I paid less than $2
                                                                                          each at KMart and install new wheels,grind off the handrails, and
                                                                                          install Kadee's. It would be less expensive than the $20 for a rtr
                                                                                          Horizon car. I for one enjoyed the old "blue box" kits and have
                                                                                          buying them as I can afford.

                                                                                          I have quite a few die cast Roundhouse I am working on converting to
                                                                                          Kadee's #4,but having one heck of a time with the springs, they want
                                                                                          to go everywhere but in the box. I've tried using a knife blade to
                                                                                          hold them, swearing at them doesn't help. Any suggestions?

                                                                                          Thanks in advance, Tom Businger, Cleveland Ohio







                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Imp Ster" <iimpster@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > ok, you've all suffered thru my previous rants about the decline
                                                                                          and
                                                                                          > fall of the state of the HO union.
                                                                                          > but i thought i was over the worst of it, really i did.
                                                                                          > so here i am happily puttering away at my workbench, assembling 4
                                                                                          > Athearn boxcars with (GASP!) separate opening doors.
                                                                                          > (i'd webcast the event, but you dont want to see me when i'm
                                                                                          angry.
                                                                                          > heh.)
                                                                                          > anyway, so i'm prepping the weights, after cleaning the oily film,
                                                                                          > filing the burrs and re-flattening the said "flat steel" weights,
                                                                                          > preliminary coating of flat black paint, metal #5 KDs substituted
                                                                                          for
                                                                                          > the (@$%^&*&) lame EZ-Mates.
                                                                                          > one weight drops into place as usual, but the next hangs up, which
                                                                                          i
                                                                                          > discover after i have applied the 10 drops of ACC... the king-pin
                                                                                          > holes are punched too far apart!
                                                                                          > does Athearn think we all have a drill press handy?
                                                                                          > wtf??
                                                                                          > sudenly i am reminded of a pards "conversation" with an actual
                                                                                          > Athearn rep at a recent trainshow.
                                                                                          > the pard makes his living assembling and painting to order kits.
                                                                                          > among which were often, amazingly enough, Athearn kits.
                                                                                          > so naturaly pard wants to know Athearn's intentions to the kit
                                                                                          > market, re, will kits still be manufactured, esp undecorated, for
                                                                                          the
                                                                                          > pleasure builders and others.
                                                                                          > and the Athearn "rep" is non-commital, arrogant, fidgety, etc. all
                                                                                          > the classic signs of a dirty little secret.
                                                                                          > finaly the "rep" sez, and ii quote my absolutely-reliable pard
                                                                                          > here: "I dont have to have this conversation!", turns on his heel
                                                                                          and
                                                                                          > walks off into the crowd.
                                                                                          > (insert sound of pard's jaw hitting the floor.)
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > o tay then.
                                                                                          > i knew this was coming, did you?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > so last week i go to my local hobby shop, looking for any Athearn
                                                                                          > remnants of that bygone golden era.
                                                                                          > yes there are a few left, so i grab what i can, see above.
                                                                                          > then as i am comparing catalog #'s as found at Athearn's OWN
                                                                                          website,
                                                                                          > many of which are noted with "discontinued", my shop calls the
                                                                                          > Athearn - Whorizon warehause to see what if anything they have
                                                                                          left.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > bingo - you guessed it - hardly anything is left in stock and no
                                                                                          more
                                                                                          > are expected.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > this puts that shoddy weight stamping right into perspective.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > and no, i'm not going to waste my time emailing them requesting
                                                                                          > status of parts.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > so hear me now, pals:
                                                                                          > hit your local shops now and get what Blue Box kits you can.
                                                                                          > as for the RTR stuff, "competitively priced" at a mere $19.95 for
                                                                                          > what used to be a $7.50 kit, spare me the BS.
                                                                                          > i got a special steaming load reserved for companies who pander to
                                                                                          > the eliti$t "hobbyi$t".
                                                                                          > when the only rolling stock worthy of the name can only be had for
                                                                                          > over $20, something is rotten in Carson.
                                                                                          > (but hey looky there, MR is blaring the latest resin kits, less
                                                                                          > trucks or couplers, for a mere $49.95. o tay then. stick a fork in
                                                                                          > the hobby and call it passe.)
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > yeah yeah i know.
                                                                                          > all the starving sweathogs in Taiwan need to eat.
                                                                                          > but not on my thin dime.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > hear that sound? - it's Irv spinning in his grave.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > ...
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1136 From: Ilcentral@aol.com Date: 3/12/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in de...
                                                                                          Tom,
                                                                                          What I do is to take a X-acto # 11 blade cut just the very tip off then with the spring in the palm of your hand slip the # 11 into the spring towards the top and then you lift it out and then slip it on to the holder on one end & tilt the #11 just a little and slip the other end of the spring in  & you should have it. Let me know how this works for you as I have been doing this for years.
                                                                                          I hope this helps.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          John Pitts
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1137 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/12/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Kadee's #4 in MDC (Roundhouse) coupler pockets
                                                                                          Tom, i applaud your good intentions, but have you tried using the
                                                                                          standard #5's instead? they will drop into the pocket and the 1-piece
                                                                                          sheet-bronze centering spring saves a lot of trouble.
                                                                                          however if you are willing to go the extra mile, #4s do have a nice
                                                                                          centering action, if you can get the steel dowel inside the smaller
                                                                                          spring without altering the spring tension.
                                                                                          (as you know, there are 2 springs included with #4 kits - the knuckle
                                                                                          closing spring which is slightly larger and stiffer, and the
                                                                                          centering spring which is actualy quite fragile... in a pinch, the
                                                                                          knuckle spring can be used as a centering spring, but you will have a
                                                                                          much stiffer centering action which can interfere with the 'delayed'
                                                                                          uncoupling action)

                                                                                          i use a common X-acto sharpie to grab and hold the spring, by setting
                                                                                          the blade edge into the spring coil.
                                                                                          then carefuly slide the steel dowel into the spring with a NON-
                                                                                          Magnetic tweezer.
                                                                                          you can usually then set the spring-dowel combination into the
                                                                                          coupler shank already in the box, which has been prepped (burnished -
                                                                                          de-burred etc).. Kadee recomends having the shank already in the box,
                                                                                          then dropping one end of the spring in the slot, then dragging the
                                                                                          shank over the centering pin and setting in place.
                                                                                          a very finicky proceedure, to be sure... which is why Kadee is now
                                                                                          offering sets of #4's pre-assembled.

                                                                                          btw, MDC is usualy ripe for #5 installation.
                                                                                          #4 seems rather troublesome...?
                                                                                          maybe you have an earlier pocket version??

                                                                                          hope my ramblings help... for more detail, see Kadee's MDC conversion
                                                                                          page here
                                                                                          http://www.kadee.com/conv/hocc26.htm

                                                                                          cheers

                                                                                          ...

                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Tom" <thomasbusinger@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          on converting to Kadee's #4,but having one heck of a time with the
                                                                                          springs, they want to go everywhere but in the box.

                                                                                          Tom Businger, Cleveland Ohio
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1138 From: Gerry D Date: 3/12/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)
                                                                                          --- Tom <thomasbusinger@...> wrote:

                                                                                          > Hmmmm, maybe its time to dig out and dust off that
                                                                                          > box of old (dare
                                                                                          > I say it) Tyco cars from the early 70's that I paid
                                                                                          > less than $2
                                                                                          > each at KMart and install new wheels,grind off the
                                                                                          > handrails, and
                                                                                          > install Kadee's. It would be less expensive than the
                                                                                          > $20 for a rtr
                                                                                          > Horizon car. I for one enjoyed the old "blue box"
                                                                                          > kits and have
                                                                                          > buying them as I can afford.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > I have quite a few die cast Roundhouse I am working
                                                                                          > on converting to
                                                                                          > Kadee's #4,but having one heck of a time with the
                                                                                          > springs, they want
                                                                                          > to go everywhere but in the box. I've tried using a
                                                                                          > knife blade to
                                                                                          > hold them, swearing at them doesn't help. Any
                                                                                          > suggestions?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Thanks in advance, Tom Businger, Cleveland Ohio
                                                                                          >

                                                                                          Tongue in cheek response: Use RTV

                                                                                          Seriously I had a devil of a time building ONE
                                                                                          disconect log buggy from kadee. They used to advertise
                                                                                          something called a spring pic, wish I had one. I ended
                                                                                          up using the back of an x-acto blade and a tooth-pic.

                                                                                          Why grind off the handrails, when you get my age and
                                                                                          had two caratact operations, the darn molded on steps
                                                                                          and handrails look OK!

                                                                                          There ain't nothin' wrong with Tyco that body mounted
                                                                                          Kadees won't fix. If they are that old that the darn
                                                                                          flanges ride the spikes, change out the trucks or
                                                                                          wheels.

                                                                                          Cordially,
                                                                                          Gerry

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                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1139 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/12/2006
                                                                                          Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
                                                                                          Hello,

                                                                                          This email message is a notification to let you know that
                                                                                          a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vintageHO
                                                                                          group.

                                                                                          File : / Ye Olde HO Conservatory/webcam sample.jpg
                                                                                          Uploaded by : iimpster <iimpster@...>
                                                                                          Description : typical frame from RXR webcast

                                                                                          You can access this file at the URL:
                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/%20%20Ye%20Olde%20HO%20Conservatory/webcam%20sample.jpg

                                                                                          To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
                                                                                          http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

                                                                                          Regards,

                                                                                          iimpster <iimpster@...>
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1140 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/12/2006
                                                                                          Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
                                                                                          Hello,

                                                                                          This email message is a notification to let you know that
                                                                                          a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vintageHO
                                                                                          group.

                                                                                          File : / Ye Olde HO Conservatory/webcam sample2.jpg
                                                                                          Uploaded by : iimpster <iimpster@...>
                                                                                          Description : typical frame from RXR webcast - boxcabs with train

                                                                                          You can access this file at the URL:
                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/%20%20Ye%20Olde%20HO%20Conservatory/webcam%20sample2.jpg

                                                                                          To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
                                                                                          http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

                                                                                          Regards,

                                                                                          iimpster <iimpster@...>
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1141 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 3/13/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)

                                                                                          “Change the wheels. . .”        One of the best things I ever did was to spend (twice now) $60 for a 100 pack of Intermoutain metal wheelsets for my cars (even my VINTAGE Athearn cars ride on ‘em).  Plastic wheels attract dirt-I clean wheels about a quarter as often.  The metal ones roll much better (more cars behind the old Mantua Mike), and the train just sounds better going thru the switches (just like the real thing: “clack-clack”).   An improvement well worth the investment, in my opinion. . . .   Jerry G.

                                                                                           


                                                                                          From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Gerry D
                                                                                          Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:39 PM
                                                                                          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)

                                                                                           



                                                                                          --- Tom <thomasbusinger@...> wrote:

                                                                                          > Hmmmm, maybe its time to dig out and dust off that
                                                                                          > box of old (dare
                                                                                          > I say it) Tyco cars from the early 70's that I paid
                                                                                          > less than $2
                                                                                          > each at KMart and install new wheels,grind off the
                                                                                          > handrails, and
                                                                                          > install Kadee's. It would be less expensive than the
                                                                                          > $20 for a rtr
                                                                                          > Horizon car.  I for one enjoyed the old "blue box"
                                                                                          > kits and have
                                                                                          > buying them as I can afford. 
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > I have quite a few die cast Roundhouse I am working
                                                                                          > on converting to
                                                                                          > Kadee's #4,but having one heck of a time with the
                                                                                          > springs, they want
                                                                                          > to go everywhere but in the box.  I've tried using a
                                                                                          > knife blade to
                                                                                          > hold them, swearing at them doesn't help. Any
                                                                                          > suggestions?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Thanks in advance, Tom Businger, Cleveland Ohio
                                                                                          >

                                                                                          Tongue in cheek response: Use RTV

                                                                                          Seriously I had a devil of a time building ONE
                                                                                          disconect log buggy from kadee. They used to advertise
                                                                                          something called a spring pic, wish I had one. I ended
                                                                                          up using the back of an x-acto blade and a tooth-pic.

                                                                                          Why grind off the handrails, when you get my age and
                                                                                          had two caratact operations, the darn molded on steps
                                                                                          and handrails look OK!

                                                                                          There ain't nothin' wrong with Tyco that body mounted
                                                                                          Kadees won't fix. If they are that old that the darn
                                                                                          flanges ride the spikes, change out the trucks or
                                                                                          wheels.

                                                                                          Cordially,
                                                                                          Gerry

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                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1142 From: erieberk Date: 3/13/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)
                                                                                          Tom, Looks like you received a number of good suggestions on
                                                                                          installing those springs, including the cut-off #11 Exacto (which I
                                                                                          never thought of either). But this subject does remind me of an old
                                                                                          trick to keep from losing any springs that may have a mind of their
                                                                                          own and go flying off on a tangent. I'm sure many of you older guys
                                                                                          will remember this from putting sprung truck kits together, but for
                                                                                          those who never did that either, you thread a good length of white
                                                                                          sewing thread endwise through the spring and carefully slip it out
                                                                                          after its in place. If it does go flying, it can't go very far that
                                                                                          you won't see it. You don't need to be quite as cautious either, as
                                                                                          it will always be on the string until you remove it after finally get
                                                                                          it in place. A small dab of CA glue at one end of the spring where
                                                                                          it contacts the box end will keep it in place when you withdraw the
                                                                                          thread, without interfering with its action later on. Regards, Ray W.
                                                                                          \
                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Tom" <thomasbusinger@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Hmmmm, maybe its time to dig out and dust off that box of old (dare
                                                                                          > I say it) Tyco cars from the early 70's that I paid less than $2
                                                                                          > each at KMart and install new wheels,grind off the handrails, and
                                                                                          > install Kadee's. It would be less expensive than the $20 for a rtr
                                                                                          > Horizon car. I for one enjoyed the old "blue box" kits and have
                                                                                          > buying them as I can afford.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > I have quite a few die cast Roundhouse I am working on converting
                                                                                          to
                                                                                          > Kadee's #4,but having one heck of a time with the springs, they
                                                                                          want
                                                                                          > to go everywhere but in the box. I've tried using a knife blade to
                                                                                          > hold them, swearing at them doesn't help. Any suggestions?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Thanks in advance, Tom Businger, Cleveland Ohio
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Imp Ster" <iimpster@> wrote:
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > ok, you've all suffered thru my previous rants about the decline
                                                                                          > and
                                                                                          > > fall of the state of the HO union.
                                                                                          > > but i thought i was over the worst of it, really i did.
                                                                                          > > so here i am happily puttering away at my workbench, assembling 4
                                                                                          > > Athearn boxcars with (GASP!) separate opening doors.
                                                                                          > > (i'd webcast the event, but you dont want to see me when i'm
                                                                                          > angry.
                                                                                          > > heh.)
                                                                                          > > anyway, so i'm prepping the weights, after cleaning the oily
                                                                                          film,
                                                                                          > > filing the burrs and re-flattening the said "flat steel" weights,
                                                                                          > > preliminary coating of flat black paint, metal #5 KDs substituted
                                                                                          > for
                                                                                          > > the (@$%^&*&) lame EZ-Mates.
                                                                                          > > one weight drops into place as usual, but the next hangs up,
                                                                                          which
                                                                                          > i
                                                                                          > > discover after i have applied the 10 drops of ACC... the king-pin
                                                                                          > > holes are punched too far apart!
                                                                                          > > does Athearn think we all have a drill press handy?
                                                                                          > > wtf??
                                                                                          > > sudenly i am reminded of a pards "conversation" with an actual
                                                                                          > > Athearn rep at a recent trainshow.
                                                                                          > > the pard makes his living assembling and painting to order kits.
                                                                                          > > among which were often, amazingly enough, Athearn kits.
                                                                                          > > so naturaly pard wants to know Athearn's intentions to the kit
                                                                                          > > market, re, will kits still be manufactured, esp undecorated, for
                                                                                          > the
                                                                                          > > pleasure builders and others.
                                                                                          > > and the Athearn "rep" is non-commital, arrogant, fidgety, etc.
                                                                                          all
                                                                                          > > the classic signs of a dirty little secret.
                                                                                          > > finaly the "rep" sez, and ii quote my absolutely-reliable pard
                                                                                          > > here: "I dont have to have this conversation!", turns on his heel
                                                                                          > and
                                                                                          > > walks off into the crowd.
                                                                                          > > (insert sound of pard's jaw hitting the floor.)
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > o tay then.
                                                                                          > > i knew this was coming, did you?
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > so last week i go to my local hobby shop, looking for any Athearn
                                                                                          > > remnants of that bygone golden era.
                                                                                          > > yes there are a few left, so i grab what i can, see above.
                                                                                          > > then as i am comparing catalog #'s as found at Athearn's OWN
                                                                                          > website,
                                                                                          > > many of which are noted with "discontinued", my shop calls the
                                                                                          > > Athearn - Whorizon warehause to see what if anything they have
                                                                                          > left.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > bingo - you guessed it - hardly anything is left in stock and no
                                                                                          > more
                                                                                          > > are expected.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > this puts that shoddy weight stamping right into perspective.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > and no, i'm not going to waste my time emailing them requesting
                                                                                          > > status of parts.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > so hear me now, pals:
                                                                                          > > hit your local shops now and get what Blue Box kits you can.
                                                                                          > > as for the RTR stuff, "competitively priced" at a mere $19.95 for
                                                                                          > > what used to be a $7.50 kit, spare me the BS.
                                                                                          > > i got a special steaming load reserved for companies who pander
                                                                                          to
                                                                                          > > the eliti$t "hobbyi$t".
                                                                                          > > when the only rolling stock worthy of the name can only be had
                                                                                          for
                                                                                          > > over $20, something is rotten in Carson.
                                                                                          > > (but hey looky there, MR is blaring the latest resin kits, less
                                                                                          > > trucks or couplers, for a mere $49.95. o tay then. stick a fork
                                                                                          in
                                                                                          > > the hobby and call it passe.)
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > yeah yeah i know.
                                                                                          > > all the starving sweathogs in Taiwan need to eat.
                                                                                          > > but not on my thin dime.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > hear that sound? - it's Irv spinning in his grave.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > ...
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1143 From: Phil Date: 3/13/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Metal Wheels in Bulk
                                                                                          Hi Jerry,

                                                                                          In regards to changing to metal wheels. I agree, and also have heard
                                                                                          the metal wheels do perform better and have less drag, hence more
                                                                                          pulling power from locos. Where did you purchase them in bulk?...I'd
                                                                                          like to pursue getting more metal wheels when I run out of my current
                                                                                          supply.

                                                                                          On another note....does anyone know a good way to remove foam from
                                                                                          a "vintage" brass loco with factory paint...I have an old brass
                                                                                          Hiawatha Loco and coaches where the foam melted all over the
                                                                                          paint..Would like a way that hopefully is fast and not damaging to
                                                                                          the Factory Paint..Thanks......

                                                                                          Phil....


                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Garteiser" <jerryg@...>
                                                                                          wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > "Change the wheels. . ." One of the best things I ever did
                                                                                          was to
                                                                                          > spend (twice now) $60 for a 100 pack of Intermoutain metal
                                                                                          wheelsets for my
                                                                                          > cars (even my VINTAGE Athearn cars ride on 'em). Plastic wheels
                                                                                          attract
                                                                                          > dirt-I clean wheels about a quarter as often. The metal ones roll
                                                                                          much
                                                                                          > better (more cars behind the old Mantua Mike), and the train just
                                                                                          sounds
                                                                                          > better going thru the switches (just like the real thing: "clack-
                                                                                          clack").
                                                                                          > An improvement well worth the investment, in my opinion. . . .
                                                                                          Jerry G.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > _____
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com]
                                                                                          On Behalf
                                                                                          > Of Gerry D
                                                                                          > Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:39 PM
                                                                                          > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson,
                                                                                          Ca.
                                                                                          > (Athearn in decline)
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1144 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 3/13/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Metal Wheels in Bulk

                                                                                          Phil: Caboose Hobbies, Item #008540055.   Today’s list price is $57.98.   They also have 36” sets as well; I just bought them by the dozen (not that many pass cars with plastic wheel in my “fleet”.)

                                                                                           

                                                                                          I have not run across a way to get old foam and its die off painted models.  I have seen people advertise/sell models with the problem noted-so I assume there is not a real sure fire way to clean up this kinda mess.  But some of the other guys at the site may be able to respond with some suggestions????

                                                                                          Regards,  Jerry G.

                                                                                           


                                                                                          From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Phil
                                                                                          Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 12:08 PM
                                                                                          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Metal Wheels in Bulk

                                                                                           

                                                                                          Hi Jerry,

                                                                                          In regards to changing to metal wheels.  I agree, and also have heard
                                                                                          the metal wheels do perform better and have less drag, hence more
                                                                                          pulling power from locos. Where did you purchase them in bulk?...I'd
                                                                                          like to pursue getting more metal wheels when I run out of my current
                                                                                          supply.

                                                                                          On another note....does anyone know a good way to remove foam from
                                                                                          a "vintage" brass loco with factory paint...I have an old brass
                                                                                          Hiawatha Loco and coaches where the foam melted all over the
                                                                                          paint..Would like a way that hopefully is fast and not damaging to
                                                                                          the Factory Paint..Thanks......

                                                                                          Phil....


                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com , "Jerry Garteiser" <jerryg@...>
                                                                                          wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > "Change the wheels. . ."        One of the best things I ever did
                                                                                          was to
                                                                                          > spend (twice now) $60 for a 100 pack of Intermoutain metal
                                                                                          wheelsets for my
                                                                                          > cars (even my VINTAGE Athearn cars ride on 'em).  Plastic wheels
                                                                                          attract
                                                                                          > dirt-I clean wheels about a quarter as often.  The metal ones roll
                                                                                          much
                                                                                          > better (more cars behind the old Mantua Mike), and the train just
                                                                                          sounds
                                                                                          > better going thru the switches (just like the real thing: "clack-
                                                                                          clack").
                                                                                          > An improvement well worth the investment, in my opinion. . . .  
                                                                                          Jerry G.
                                                                                          >

                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >   _____ 
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ]
                                                                                          On Behalf
                                                                                          > Of Gerry D
                                                                                          > Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:39 PM
                                                                                          > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson,
                                                                                          Ca.
                                                                                          > (Athearn in decline)
                                                                                          >

                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >




                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1145 From: Don Rowland Date: 3/13/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: New file uploaded to vintageHO
                                                                                          The first image pops up, but them I get the following diagnostic:
                                                                                          "Super Webcam mode is unavailable"
                                                                                          Where do I get this?

                                                                                          Don
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1146 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/13/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Metal Wheels in Bulk
                                                                                          About the best buy I've found is the Intermountain bulk packs of 100 when
                                                                                          Walthers has them on sale.

                                                                                          I've also used the Life-Like P-2000 and Kadees but they're all about the
                                                                                          same price. What I really wish I could get were the old Kemtron WA-10's.
                                                                                          These appear to be the same wheelset Central Valley used, but alas they
                                                                                          don't seem to be around anymore. (Last part number I had was Precision
                                                                                          Scale 9010, but that was 20 years ago).

                                                                                          As far as the foam on the brass, I've never heard of a solution that didn't
                                                                                          involve also removing the paint. Sorry.

                                                                                          Don

                                                                                          don.dellmann@...
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                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          From: Phil <UptownVideo@...>
                                                                                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                          Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 12:08 PM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Metal Wheels in Bulk


                                                                                          > Hi Jerry,
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > In regards to changing to metal wheels. I agree, and also have heard
                                                                                          > the metal wheels do perform better and have less drag, hence more
                                                                                          > pulling power from locos. Where did you purchase them in bulk?...I'd
                                                                                          > like to pursue getting more metal wheels when I run out of my current
                                                                                          > supply.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > On another note....does anyone know a good way to remove foam from
                                                                                          > a "vintage" brass loco with factory paint...I have an old brass
                                                                                          > Hiawatha Loco and coaches where the foam melted all over the
                                                                                          > paint..Would like a way that hopefully is fast and not damaging to
                                                                                          > the Factory Paint..Thanks......
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Phil....
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Garteiser" <jerryg@...>
                                                                                          > wrote:
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > "Change the wheels. . ." One of the best things I ever did
                                                                                          > was to
                                                                                          > > spend (twice now) $60 for a 100 pack of Intermoutain metal
                                                                                          > wheelsets for my
                                                                                          > > cars (even my VINTAGE Athearn cars ride on 'em). Plastic wheels
                                                                                          > attract
                                                                                          > > dirt-I clean wheels about a quarter as often. The metal ones roll
                                                                                          > much
                                                                                          > > better (more cars behind the old Mantua Mike), and the train just
                                                                                          > sounds
                                                                                          > > better going thru the switches (just like the real thing: "clack-
                                                                                          > clack").
                                                                                          > > An improvement well worth the investment, in my opinion. . . .
                                                                                          > Jerry G.

                                                                                          (TEXT DELETED)
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1147 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/13/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          From: erieberk <erieberk@...>
                                                                                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                          Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 10:09 AM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn
                                                                                          in decline)


                                                                                          > Tom, Looks like you received a number of good suggestions on
                                                                                          > installing those springs, including the cut-off #11 Exacto (which I
                                                                                          > never thought of either). But this subject does remind me of an old
                                                                                          > trick to keep from losing any springs that may have a mind of their
                                                                                          > own and go flying off on a tangent. I'm sure many of you older guys
                                                                                          > will remember this from putting sprung truck kits together, but for
                                                                                          > those who never did that either, you thread a good length of white
                                                                                          > sewing thread endwise through the spring and carefully slip it out
                                                                                          > after its in place. If it does go flying, it can't go very far that
                                                                                          > you won't see it. You don't need to be quite as cautious either, as
                                                                                          > it will always be on the string until you remove it after finally get
                                                                                          > it in place. A small dab of CA glue at one end of the spring where
                                                                                          > it contacts the box end will keep it in place when you withdraw the
                                                                                          > thread, without interfering with its action later on. Regards, Ray W.
                                                                                          > \

                                                                                          Gee, I haven't put a truck together that way since last Saturday afternoon!
                                                                                          <G>
                                                                                          (Digging through the scrap box came up with enough parts to make about five
                                                                                          good pair of trucks).

                                                                                          Don

                                                                                          don.dellmann@...
                                                                                          http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                          moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
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                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1148 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/13/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: New (webcam) file uploaded to vintageHO
                                                                                          hi Don - those JPGs i posted in Vintage HO Files, are just snapshots
                                                                                          (cropped screen shots) of the cam monitor frame as seen from my end.
                                                                                          i wanted to post a few snaps so folks here could see what was going on,
                                                                                          even if they didnt have the Yahoo IM installed.
                                                                                          as you can see, there is the MDC boxcar, door open, with 2 "bos"
                                                                                          loafing in the doorway.
                                                                                          the MDC boxcabs usually haul the "coffee train", but for last night's
                                                                                          run, i tacked on 4 of the fish-belly shorty gondolas.

                                                                                          the "Super Webcam" notice, as seen from my end, indicates that my
                                                                                          cheapo camera is not able to broadcast in hi-definition mode.
                                                                                          also, i am on dial-up internet, so such cameras would have problems
                                                                                          even if i did have one.
                                                                                          for now, its plenty of fun just getting the cam going, scene lighting
                                                                                          adequate, train at right pace, and sharing the trains with anybody who
                                                                                          wants to watch.

                                                                                          in Germany there is, or was, a website with trains and cams, and the
                                                                                          viewer could order trains to run over several different routes.
                                                                                          i dont know if its still in operation, it was put together by a
                                                                                          certified computer geek who seemed more concerned about his CPU
                                                                                          bragging rights than having fun with the trains...the whole layout had
                                                                                          a sterile look that i found really a turn-off.
                                                                                          and i never could get anything to work on his site.

                                                                                          leave it to me, i'll get something set up soon that we all can
                                                                                          enjoy, "toy-like" though it may be.

                                                                                          cheers

                                                                                          ...

                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Rowland" <donhotrains@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > The first image pops up, but them I get the following diagnostic:
                                                                                          > "Super Webcam mode is unavailable"
                                                                                          > Where do I get this?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Don
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1149 From: Don Riley Date: 3/13/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)
                                                                                          True!
                                                                                          I have built a few Accurail kits. They build up really nicely!
                                                                                          I do have one waiting to be tackled. It is a bilevel autorack. Lots of detail. And if built right it will look GREAT!!! Anyone built one of those?
                                                                                           
                                                                                          As for Walthers. Those look sharp too! Though they are going down the ready to roll line. And some of there cars can be a real trick!
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Steamengine 4449

                                                                                          Rick Jones <rtjones@...> wrote:
                                                                                              At least for the moment, there's still Accurail and Walther's.

                                                                                                             Rick Jones


                                                                                          Yahoo! Mail
                                                                                          Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.

                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1150 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/13/2006
                                                                                          Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
                                                                                          Hello,

                                                                                          This email message is a notification to let you know that
                                                                                          a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vintageHO
                                                                                          group.

                                                                                          File : / Ye Olde HO Conservatory/Fire Train in action.jpg
                                                                                          Uploaded by : iimpster <iimpster@...>
                                                                                          Description : bitmap manipulation of the MDC Fire Train image

                                                                                          You can access this file at the URL:
                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/%20%20Ye%20Olde%20HO%20Conservatory/Fire%20Train%20in%20action.jpg

                                                                                          To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
                                                                                          http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

                                                                                          Regards,

                                                                                          iimpster <iimpster@...>
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1151 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/13/2006
                                                                                          Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
                                                                                          Hello,

                                                                                          This email message is a notification to let you know that
                                                                                          a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vintageHO
                                                                                          group.

                                                                                          File : / Ye Olde HO Conservatory/4-8-4_edit.jpg
                                                                                          Uploaded by : iimpster <iimpster@...>
                                                                                          Description : wallpaper experiment featuring the Bowser Northern 4-8-4

                                                                                          You can access this file at the URL:
                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/%20%20Ye%20Olde%20HO%20Conservatory/4-8-4_edit.jpg

                                                                                          To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
                                                                                          http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

                                                                                          Regards,

                                                                                          iimpster <iimpster@...>
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1152 From: Ilcentral@aol.com Date: 3/13/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)
                                                                                          Steamengine 4449,
                                                                                          I have built a few of the Accurail bi level auto racks there great cars.
                                                                                          One thing that you have to do to them though is add the chains from post to post if nothing else it will be time well spent.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          John Pitts
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1153 From: AL Date: 3/13/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Digest Number 287
                                                                                          multiple replies , comments ...

                                                                                          >It might not be exactly accurate to say "the customer be da__ed". It
                                                                                          >is quite possible that other customers who, for whatever reason don't
                                                                                          >want to deal with assembly and painting and decaling, have felt they
                                                                                          >were the ones not served until now. And now they are.

                                                                                          then give then SOME o fwhat they want - why go and RUIN both Athearn AND
                                                                                          Roundhouse/MDC ( couldn;t one be RTR and one stay kits, as they had
                                                                                          originally hinted to ) ?

                                                                                          >The blow struck by Horizon Hobbies attitude and
                                                                                          >pricing will indeed hurt the hobby.

                                                                                          110% correct
                                                                                          Of course now I can do more true MODELING,instead of Assembly ... here
                                                                                          comes the stash of old Cardboard car sides, etc.
                                                                                          The true hobbyists ( ones that will stay with it more than 5 minutes),have
                                                                                          ALREADY been priced way out of the market - when I returned to railroading
                                                                                          2-3 years ago, the forst thing I got was a huge case of sticker shock, and
                                                                                          ongoing - what's up with rtr digital decoder installed,super detailed ( in
                                                                                          plastic so when they break,no repairs), locos .... what happened to the ' $
                                                                                          12.99, we chose roadname ' delas we used to have.... or inexpensive rolling
                                                                                          stock.

                                                                                          I know Walthers and Accurail were mentioned, but since Walther's KITS cost
                                                                                          as much or more than the complained about 19.99 rtr Athearns, not likely to
                                                                                          be many Walther's cars on my roster, thank you .

                                                                                          >The change just might be good. We could return to the
                                                                                          >cardboard houses and share PDF files of home brew
                                                                                          >plans and cutouts made out of pizza boxes.

                                                                                          that works for me - been trying to get a repositiry of old car plans
                                                                                          together, slowly....

                                                                                          what we need is the PDF files of such things as wooden car plans (actual
                                                                                          PLANS, not just old instructions sheets,etc - and PDF files of the cardboard
                                                                                          car sides, etc... then we can build ( thankfully wood parts are still
                                                                                          available not ready-to-run )

                                                                                          >Watch for
                                                                                          more articles in your favorite RR magazine on how to
                                                                                          carve a 4-4-0 out of a chunk of brass. Easy, just
                                                                                          remove the areas that are not a 4-4-0.

                                                                                          >Better yet, computers are here!

                                                                                          Although I agree with the (sic) coming days of virtual railroading - the
                                                                                          computers can be a huge help .
                                                                                          home CNC machines will become more and more commonplace as costs come down
                                                                                          ( funny how tools and electronics / high ticket items can keep LOWERING
                                                                                          prices, while kits go through the roof).... anyways, make a cnc program and
                                                                                          that brass 4-4-0 won;t be as far-fetched as it seems.

                                                                                          >The old way of the hobby of model trains is not really
                                                                                          in danger. The high costs of Horizon Hobbies will not
                                                                                          stop me. I will buy from others.

                                                                                          Yes, and there will be a nice supply of items available form 'others' who
                                                                                          are leaving the hobby due to excessive costs.



                                                                                          just my ( inflated ) 4 1/2 cents worth

                                                                                          ~ AL
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1154 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/14/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: New (webcam) file uploaded to vintageHO
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          From: Imp Ster <iimpster@...>
                                                                                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                          Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 10:53 PM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: New (webcam) file uploaded to vintageHO


                                                                                          > hi Don - those JPGs i posted in Vintage HO Files, are just snapshots
                                                                                          > (cropped screen shots) of the cam monitor frame as seen from my end.
                                                                                          > i wanted to post a few snaps so folks here could see what was going on,
                                                                                          > even if they didnt have the Yahoo IM installed.
                                                                                          > as you can see, there is the MDC boxcar, door open, with 2 "bos"
                                                                                          > loafing in the doorway.
                                                                                          > the MDC boxcabs usually haul the "coffee train", but for last night's
                                                                                          > run, i tacked on 4 of the fish-belly shorty gondolas.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > the "Super Webcam" notice, as seen from my end, indicates that my
                                                                                          > cheapo camera is not able to broadcast in hi-definition mode.
                                                                                          > also, i am on dial-up internet, so such cameras would have problems
                                                                                          > even if i did have one.
                                                                                          > for now, its plenty of fun just getting the cam going, scene lighting
                                                                                          > adequate, train at right pace, and sharing the trains with anybody who
                                                                                          > wants to watch.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > in Germany there is, or was, a website with trains and cams, and the
                                                                                          > viewer could order trains to run over several different routes.
                                                                                          > i dont know if its still in operation, it was put together by a
                                                                                          > certified computer geek who seemed more concerned about his CPU
                                                                                          > bragging rights than having fun with the trains...the whole layout had
                                                                                          > a sterile look that i found really a turn-off.
                                                                                          > and i never could get anything to work on his site.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > leave it to me, i'll get something set up soon that we all can
                                                                                          > enjoy, "toy-like" though it may be.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > cheers

                                                                                          As long as it's fun.

                                                                                          One comment though, I would rather you put the pictures in the "photos"
                                                                                          section in an album rather than in the files area. We should reserve the
                                                                                          files area for things like text files or scans that really require being
                                                                                          saved in high resolution like drawings or instruction sheets.

                                                                                          Thanks

                                                                                          Don

                                                                                          don.dellmann@...
                                                                                          http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                          moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1155 From: dinky2353 Date: 3/14/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Remove foam damage from painted models
                                                                                          Try simply brushing the foam off the model with a 3 or 4 inch paint
                                                                                          brush (the kind you would paint woodwork with). Start off gently and
                                                                                          use only as firm a hand as you need to gradually erode the foam
                                                                                          particles away. Be careful around the attached details but you can
                                                                                          work the bristles in and around them. Depending on the original paint
                                                                                          there may be a little etching left in the finish but a drop of light
                                                                                          oil on a cotton swab will remove any residue and clean up the finish.
                                                                                          This has worked for me.

                                                                                          Chris
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1156 From: Chuck Svihlik Date: 3/15/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Goodbye
                                                                                          I would like to wish everyone in the group good health and good
                                                                                          modeling. I will be thinking of you. So I say goodbye, and have fun.
                                                                                          Gramps
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1157 From: takefive247 Date: 3/15/2006
                                                                                          Subject: capacitor discharge
                                                                                          Hello,
                                                                                          Would someone give me a brief, plain english explanation, or tell me
                                                                                          where to go, of how and why a capacitor discharge power supply for a
                                                                                          turnout switch works? And why and when do you need it? I am trying to
                                                                                          hook up a reversing section and looking for a way to prevent burned
                                                                                          out switch machines.
                                                                                          Bill
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1158 From: Gerry D Date: 3/15/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: capacitor discharge
                                                                                          --- takefive247 <takefive@...> wrote:

                                                                                          > Hello,
                                                                                          > Would someone give me a brief, plain english
                                                                                          > explanation, or tell me
                                                                                          > where to go, of how and why a capacitor discharge
                                                                                          > power supply for a
                                                                                          > turnout switch works? And why and when do you need
                                                                                          > it? I am trying to
                                                                                          > hook up a reversing section and looking for a way to
                                                                                          > prevent burned
                                                                                          > out switch machines.
                                                                                          > Bill
                                                                                          >

                                                                                          Hello Bill,
                                                                                          It's like this in my view:
                                                                                          A capacitor is like a temporary battery.
                                                                                          To charge it, you provide DC.
                                                                                          Between the DC source and the capacitor one would
                                                                                          place a resistor, say about 300 ohms to 1 K ohms.

                                                                                          The Capacitor is connected to the push button for the
                                                                                          switch machine. Return is routed back to the other
                                                                                          pole of the capacitor.

                                                                                          The capacitor charges up to at least 24 VDC through
                                                                                          the resistor. Pushing the button instantly discharges
                                                                                          the full 24 volts through the switch machine coil. If
                                                                                          you hold the button in, it gets minimal voltage as the
                                                                                          power is coming from the source and through the
                                                                                          resistor. The switch machine will not burn out as if
                                                                                          it had the voltage directly applied to it without the
                                                                                          resistor.

                                                                                          I don't like it because the contacts of the pushbutton
                                                                                          take a hell of a whack when the circuit is closed and
                                                                                          may short.

                                                                                          You can get elaborate and do something like on this
                                                                                          link:

                                                                                          http://home.cogeco.ca/~rpaisley4/CDPSU.html

                                                                                          This fellow gives excellent diagrams and theory.

                                                                                          Cordially,
                                                                                          Gerry D
                                                                                          http://kitbash.ourpage.org


                                                                                          __________________________________________________
                                                                                          Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                          Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                                                          http://mail.yahoo.com
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1159 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 3/15/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: capacitor discharge

                                                                                          I will try.   Basically, the capacitor stores energy, to be released when called upon (as in closing a circuit/pushing a button).   Think of it this way- think of a garden hose and bucket.  The garden hose is your power pack.  The bucket is your capacitor.  You use the garden hose to fill the bucket at a somewhat slow rate until it is full.  Then when you need the bucket of water (large volume of water fast), you turn it over.  So, the power pack charges the capacitor, the capacitor stores the charge of energy, and when you need it to throw the switch machine you press the button (“dump the water”).  You need it when you have a small (low amperage) power supply and a high current (power requirement) switch machine.  So, if you have a 10 amp capacity power supply, a capacitor discharge unit probably is not needed.  But if you are trying to throw a switch with a 1 amp power pack, and everything on the track stops (or slows down noticeably), then you need the capacitor unit to store the energy to throw the switch.

                                                                                           

                                                                                          It is irrelevant whether you are trying to use this in a reversing loop situation, or a normal siding or yard type switch machine.  The machine is looking for that big surge of power to “heave it over”.       By the way, there is a way to avoid this, and that is to use a low current machine, such as a Tortoise unit.  But, if you are trying to use a 1 amp pack and have 25 low current switch machines, you are going to tax the power pack and end up burning it up instead.

                                                                                           

                                                                                          Hope this helps.  Come back if this generates more questions-I’ll be glad to try and answer them.   Regards,  JerryG.

                                                                                           


                                                                                          From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of takefive247
                                                                                          Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 6:35 PM
                                                                                          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] capacitor discharge

                                                                                           

                                                                                          Hello,
                                                                                          Would someone give me a brief, plain english explanation, or tell me
                                                                                          where to go, of how and why a capacitor discharge power supply for a
                                                                                          turnout switch works? And why and when do you need it? I am trying to
                                                                                          hook up a reversing section and looking for a way to prevent burned
                                                                                          out switch machines.
                                                                                          Bill




                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1160 From: takefive247 Date: 3/15/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: capacitor discharge
                                                                                          Thanks Jerry,
                                                                                          Not sure if this is the right group to pursue this but if it's OK I
                                                                                          would appreciate the help. Your explanations was helpful but I don't
                                                                                          think it (the capacitor) will solve my problem completely. Would you
                                                                                          know how it is connected to prevent burnout's if the input or buttons
                                                                                          gets stuck?
                                                                                          Bill


                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Garteiser" <jerryg@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > I will try. Basically, the capacitor stores energy, to be released
                                                                                          when
                                                                                          > called upon (as in closing a circuit/pushing a button). Think of
                                                                                          it this
                                                                                          > way- think of a garden hose and bucket. The garden hose is your
                                                                                          power pack.
                                                                                          > The bucket is your capacitor. You use the garden hose to fill the
                                                                                          bucket at
                                                                                          > a somewhat slow rate until it is full. Then when you need the bucket of
                                                                                          > water (large volume of water fast), you turn it over. So, the power
                                                                                          pack
                                                                                          > charges the capacitor, the capacitor stores the charge of energy,
                                                                                          and when
                                                                                          > you need it to throw the switch machine you press the button ("dump the
                                                                                          > water"). You need it when you have a small (low amperage) power
                                                                                          supply and
                                                                                          > a high current (power requirement) switch machine. So, if you have
                                                                                          a 10 amp
                                                                                          > capacity power supply, a capacitor discharge unit probably is not
                                                                                          needed.
                                                                                          > But if you are trying to throw a switch with a 1 amp power pack, and
                                                                                          > everything on the track stops (or slows down noticeably), then you
                                                                                          need the
                                                                                          > capacitor unit to store the energy to throw the switch.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > It is irrelevant whether you are trying to use this in a reversing loop
                                                                                          > situation, or a normal siding or yard type switch machine. The
                                                                                          machine is
                                                                                          > looking for that big surge of power to "heave it over". By the
                                                                                          way,
                                                                                          > there is a way to avoid this, and that is to use a low current
                                                                                          machine, such
                                                                                          > as a Tortoise unit. But, if you are trying to use a 1 amp pack and
                                                                                          have 25
                                                                                          > low current switch machines, you are going to tax the power pack and
                                                                                          end up
                                                                                          > burning it up instead.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Hope this helps. Come back if this generates more questions-I'll be
                                                                                          glad to
                                                                                          > try and answer them. Regards, JerryG.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > _____
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com]
                                                                                          On Behalf
                                                                                          > Of takefive247
                                                                                          > Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 6:35 PM
                                                                                          > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > Subject: [vintageHO] capacitor discharge
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Hello,
                                                                                          > Would someone give me a brief, plain english explanation, or tell me
                                                                                          > where to go, of how and why a capacitor discharge power supply for a
                                                                                          > turnout switch works? And why and when do you need it? I am trying to
                                                                                          > hook up a reversing section and looking for a way to prevent burned
                                                                                          > out switch machines.
                                                                                          > Bill
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > SPONSORED LINKS
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Ho
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ho+scale&w1=Ho+scale&w2=G+scale+model+t
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          rain&w3=G+scale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&c=5&s=105&.
                                                                                          > sig=8KOGo_UHbh1z3_tfejZc3g> scale
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > G
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=G+scale+model+train&w1=Ho+scale&w2=G+sc
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          ale+model+train&w3=G+scale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&
                                                                                          > c=5&s=105&.sig=DYMOtZbTn2X5dWehROXrYA> scale model train
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > G
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=G+scale+train&w1=Ho+scale&w2=G+scale+mo
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          del+train&w3=G+scale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&c=5&s=
                                                                                          > 105&.sig=jwWwyG6k7w-XKTP_W-OISw> scale train
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Ho
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ho+scale+model+train&w1=Ho+scale&w2=G+s
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          cale+model+train&w3=G+scale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains
                                                                                          > &c=5&s=105&.sig=Efz14TYTnr3ek3U3Ki12dw> scale model train
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Ho
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ho+scale+trains&w1=Ho+scale&w2=G+scale+
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          model+train&w3=G+scale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&c=5&
                                                                                          > s=105&.sig=fcEGSsw1wP9YV9MbEbe8sA> scale trains
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > _____
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > * Visit your group "vintageHO
                                                                                          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO> " on the web.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                          > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > <mailto:vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                                                                                          > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > _____
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1161 From: takefive247 Date: 3/15/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: capacitor discharge
                                                                                          Thanks Jerry,
                                                                                          Not sure if this is the right group to pursue this but if it's OK I
                                                                                          would appreciate the help. Your explanations was helpful but I don't
                                                                                          think it (the capacitor) will solve my problem completely. Would you
                                                                                          know how it is connected to prevent burnout's if the input or buttons
                                                                                          gets stuck?
                                                                                          Bill


                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Garteiser" <jerryg@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > I will try. Basically, the capacitor stores energy, to be released
                                                                                          when
                                                                                          > called upon (as in closing a circuit/pushing a button). Think of
                                                                                          it this
                                                                                          > way- think of a garden hose and bucket. The garden hose is your
                                                                                          power pack.
                                                                                          > The bucket is your capacitor. You use the garden hose to fill the
                                                                                          bucket at
                                                                                          > a somewhat slow rate until it is full. Then when you need the bucket of
                                                                                          > water (large volume of water fast), you turn it over. So, the power
                                                                                          pack
                                                                                          > charges the capacitor, the capacitor stores the charge of energy,
                                                                                          and when
                                                                                          > you need it to throw the switch machine you press the button ("dump the
                                                                                          > water"). You need it when you have a small (low amperage) power
                                                                                          supply and
                                                                                          > a high current (power requirement) switch machine. So, if you have
                                                                                          a 10 amp
                                                                                          > capacity power supply, a capacitor discharge unit probably is not
                                                                                          needed.
                                                                                          > But if you are trying to throw a switch with a 1 amp power pack, and
                                                                                          > everything on the track stops (or slows down noticeably), then you
                                                                                          need the
                                                                                          > capacitor unit to store the energy to throw the switch.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > It is irrelevant whether you are trying to use this in a reversing loop
                                                                                          > situation, or a normal siding or yard type switch machine. The
                                                                                          machine is
                                                                                          > looking for that big surge of power to "heave it over". By the
                                                                                          way,
                                                                                          > there is a way to avoid this, and that is to use a low current
                                                                                          machine, such
                                                                                          > as a Tortoise unit. But, if you are trying to use a 1 amp pack and
                                                                                          have 25
                                                                                          > low current switch machines, you are going to tax the power pack and
                                                                                          end up
                                                                                          > burning it up instead.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Hope this helps. Come back if this generates more questions-I'll be
                                                                                          glad to
                                                                                          > try and answer them. Regards, JerryG.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > _____
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com]
                                                                                          On Behalf
                                                                                          > Of takefive247
                                                                                          > Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 6:35 PM
                                                                                          > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > Subject: [vintageHO] capacitor discharge
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Hello,
                                                                                          > Would someone give me a brief, plain english explanation, or tell me
                                                                                          > where to go, of how and why a capacitor discharge power supply for a
                                                                                          > turnout switch works? And why and when do you need it? I am trying to
                                                                                          > hook up a reversing section and looking for a way to prevent burned
                                                                                          > out switch machines.
                                                                                          > Bill
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > SPONSORED LINKS
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Ho
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ho+scale&w1=Ho+scale&w2=G+scale+model+t
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          rain&w3=G+scale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&c=5&s=105&.
                                                                                          > sig=8KOGo_UHbh1z3_tfejZc3g> scale
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > G
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=G+scale+model+train&w1=Ho+scale&w2=G+sc
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          ale+model+train&w3=G+scale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&
                                                                                          > c=5&s=105&.sig=DYMOtZbTn2X5dWehROXrYA> scale model train
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > G
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=G+scale+train&w1=Ho+scale&w2=G+scale+mo
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          del+train&w3=G+scale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&c=5&s=
                                                                                          > 105&.sig=jwWwyG6k7w-XKTP_W-OISw> scale train
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Ho
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ho+scale+model+train&w1=Ho+scale&w2=G+s
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          cale+model+train&w3=G+scale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains
                                                                                          > &c=5&s=105&.sig=Efz14TYTnr3ek3U3Ki12dw> scale model train
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Ho
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ho+scale+trains&w1=Ho+scale&w2=G+scale+
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          model+train&w3=G+scale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&c=5&
                                                                                          > s=105&.sig=fcEGSsw1wP9YV9MbEbe8sA> scale trains
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > _____
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > * Visit your group "vintageHO
                                                                                          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO> " on the web.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                          > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > <mailto:vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
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                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > _____
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1162 From: Tom Date: 3/15/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Kadee's #4 in MDC (Roundhouse) coupler pockets
                                                                                          Imp Ster, my friend, Thank you for your tips, between you and the
                                                                                          other guys here I gave it another try tonight. It took almost an
                                                                                          hour, but I got em!

                                                                                          I would gladly use the #5's but the sheet bronze spring will not fit
                                                                                          into the coupler box. These are OLD (emphasis) cars from late 40's
                                                                                          early 50's, everything is diecast except the handrails. The sides of
                                                                                          the cars are prepainted and lettered and I may be mistaken but are
                                                                                          also diecast,a very thin and fragile piece of metal to be sure.
                                                                                          They belonged to my Dad, I remember drooling over them, many were
                                                                                          already built but there are several in kit form, when I was a kid.
                                                                                          OK to look but don't touch! The modeler has to paint the
                                                                                          underframe, roof, and ends as well as the brake gear,the cars are
                                                                                          assembled using small screws to hold the body together. I haven't
                                                                                          weighed one, but I am certain they meet the NMRA standards..LOL. and
                                                                                          yes they do have the sprung trucks, although the wheels rusted a bit
                                                                                          when Dad stored them in his garage before handing them off to me.
                                                                                          Weathering, who needs stinking weathering, its the real thing!

                                                                                          Wish I knew about the preassembled #4's... these are a pain. One
                                                                                          other note about the #5's, the center hole is way too big for the
                                                                                          coupler pin in the diecast box, the slot in the #4 is a little
                                                                                          sloppy but not as bad as the #5.

                                                                                          I also have several Varney plastic cars to convert with the same
                                                                                          situation, a very thin pin in the plastic box. I will check the
                                                                                          Kadee website for the proper coupler but I have a sneaking suspicion
                                                                                          it is going to be the #4.

                                                                                          Thanks again Tom Businger






                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Imp Ster" <iimpster@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Tom, i applaud your good intentions, but have you tried using the
                                                                                          > standard #5's instead? they will drop into the pocket and the 1-
                                                                                          piece
                                                                                          > sheet-bronze centering spring saves a lot of trouble.
                                                                                          > however if you are willing to go the extra mile, #4s do have a
                                                                                          nice
                                                                                          > centering action, if you can get the steel dowel inside the
                                                                                          smaller
                                                                                          > spring without altering the spring tension.
                                                                                          > (as you know, there are 2 springs included with #4 kits - the
                                                                                          knuckle
                                                                                          > closing spring which is slightly larger and stiffer, and the
                                                                                          > centering spring which is actualy quite fragile... in a pinch, the
                                                                                          > knuckle spring can be used as a centering spring, but you will
                                                                                          have a
                                                                                          > much stiffer centering action which can interfere with
                                                                                          the 'delayed'
                                                                                          > uncoupling action)
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > i use a common X-acto sharpie to grab and hold the spring, by
                                                                                          setting
                                                                                          > the blade edge into the spring coil.
                                                                                          > then carefuly slide the steel dowel into the spring with a NON-
                                                                                          > Magnetic tweezer.
                                                                                          > you can usually then set the spring-dowel combination into the
                                                                                          > coupler shank already in the box, which has been prepped
                                                                                          (burnished -
                                                                                          > de-burred etc).. Kadee recomends having the shank already in the
                                                                                          box,
                                                                                          > then dropping one end of the spring in the slot, then dragging the
                                                                                          > shank over the centering pin and setting in place.
                                                                                          > a very finicky proceedure, to be sure... which is why Kadee is now
                                                                                          > offering sets of #4's pre-assembled.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > btw, MDC is usualy ripe for #5 installation.
                                                                                          > #4 seems rather troublesome...?
                                                                                          > maybe you have an earlier pocket version??
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > hope my ramblings help... for more detail, see Kadee's MDC
                                                                                          conversion
                                                                                          > page here
                                                                                          > http://www.kadee.com/conv/hocc26.htm
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > cheers
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > ...
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Tom" <thomasbusinger@> wrote:
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > on converting to Kadee's #4,but having one heck of a time with the
                                                                                          > springs, they want to go everywhere but in the box.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Tom Businger, Cleveland Ohio
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1163 From: Tom Date: 3/15/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in de...
                                                                                          John, Thanks for the hint... it does work. Now if only I could see
                                                                                          a little better... they make the parts too small, nothings wrong
                                                                                          with my eyes! Thanks again..Tom Businger

                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Ilcentral@... wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Tom,
                                                                                          > What I do is to take a X-acto # 11 blade cut just the very tip off
                                                                                          then with
                                                                                          > the spring in the palm of your hand slip the # 11 into the spring
                                                                                          towards
                                                                                          > the top and then you lift it out and then slip it on to the
                                                                                          holder on one end &
                                                                                          > tilt the #11 just a little and slip the other end of the spring
                                                                                          in & you
                                                                                          > should have it. Let me know how this works for you as I have been
                                                                                          doing this
                                                                                          > for years.
                                                                                          > I hope this helps.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > John Pitts
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1164 From: Ilcentral@aol.com Date: 3/15/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in de...
                                                                                          Tom,
                                                                                          Anytime I can help just let me know.
                                                                                          IM glad it works for you.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          John Pitts
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1165 From: Tom Date: 3/15/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)
                                                                                          Gerry, I did one Tyco car this weekend, exactly as you said, put
                                                                                          some coupler boxes on it and some #5's... I dont have the metal
                                                                                          wheels yet, but I put it in a train and it ran just fine, oversize
                                                                                          ladders and all. Since I have close to 50 of these it may be a
                                                                                          while but I think some may find their way onto the layout. Some of
                                                                                          the older AHM cars sound like they are on a washboard due to the
                                                                                          oversize wheel flanges so they will have to wait their turn in the
                                                                                          car shops.
                                                                                          Thanks for your advice, Tom Businger


                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Gerry D <gerard_sr@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > --- Tom <thomasbusinger@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > > Hmmmm, maybe its time to dig out and dust off that
                                                                                          > > box of old (dare
                                                                                          > > I say it) Tyco cars from the early 70's that I paid
                                                                                          > > less than $2
                                                                                          > > each at KMart and install new wheels,grind off the
                                                                                          > > handrails, and
                                                                                          > > install Kadee's. It would be less expensive than the
                                                                                          > > $20 for a rtr
                                                                                          > > Horizon car. I for one enjoyed the old "blue box"
                                                                                          > > kits and have
                                                                                          > > buying them as I can afford.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > I have quite a few die cast Roundhouse I am working
                                                                                          > > on converting to
                                                                                          > > Kadee's #4,but having one heck of a time with the
                                                                                          > > springs, they want
                                                                                          > > to go everywhere but in the box. I've tried using a
                                                                                          > > knife blade to
                                                                                          > > hold them, swearing at them doesn't help. Any
                                                                                          > > suggestions?
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > Thanks in advance, Tom Businger, Cleveland Ohio
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Tongue in cheek response: Use RTV
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Seriously I had a devil of a time building ONE
                                                                                          > disconect log buggy from kadee. They used to advertise
                                                                                          > something called a spring pic, wish I had one. I ended
                                                                                          > up using the back of an x-acto blade and a tooth-pic.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Why grind off the handrails, when you get my age and
                                                                                          > had two caratact operations, the darn molded on steps
                                                                                          > and handrails look OK!
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > There ain't nothin' wrong with Tyco that body mounted
                                                                                          > Kadees won't fix. If they are that old that the darn
                                                                                          > flanges ride the spikes, change out the trucks or
                                                                                          > wheels.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Cordially,
                                                                                          > Gerry
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > __________________________________________________
                                                                                          > Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                          > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                                                          > http://mail.yahoo.com
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1166 From: Tom Date: 3/15/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Thanks Everyone
                                                                                          Just want to thank everyone for their help and interest. I do want to
                                                                                          say that I belong to quite a few groups and this one hands down has
                                                                                          the nicest, most helpful people as members. I truly appreciate it.
                                                                                          If any of you are in the Cleveland Ohio area, their is a standing
                                                                                          invitation to drop by, see the layout and operate some trains, both
                                                                                          new and old.
                                                                                          Tom
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1167 From: Glenn Date: 3/15/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: capacitor discharge
                                                                                          A CD power supply gives a hard, quick zap of power, enough to positively move the switch points, bur short enough not to overload and burn out the coils.
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 4:35 PM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] capacitor discharge

                                                                                          Hello,
                                                                                          Would someone give me a brief, plain english explanation, or tell me
                                                                                          where to go, of how and why a capacitor discharge power supply for a
                                                                                          turnout switch works? And why and when do you need it? I am trying to
                                                                                          hook up a reversing section and looking for a way to prevent burned
                                                                                          out switch machines.
                                                                                          Bill



                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1168 From: Glenn Date: 3/15/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: capacitor discharge
                                                                                          if the button is held down or gets stuck, the capacitor cannot recharge, and only a minor current can flow thru the coils.
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 6:50 PM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: capacitor discharge

                                                                                          Thanks Jerry,
                                                                                          Not sure if this is the right group to pursue this but if it's OK I
                                                                                          would appreciate the help. Your explanations was helpful but I don't
                                                                                          think it (the capacitor)  will solve my problem completely. Would you
                                                                                          know how it is connected to prevent burnout's if the input or buttons
                                                                                          gets stuck?
                                                                                          Bill


                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Garteiser" <jerryg@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > I will try.   Basically, the capacitor stores energy, to be released
                                                                                          when
                                                                                          > called upon (as in closing a circuit/pushing a button).   Think of
                                                                                          it this
                                                                                          > way- think of a garden hose and bucket.  The garden hose is your
                                                                                          power pack.
                                                                                          > The bucket is your capacitor.  You use the garden hose to fill the
                                                                                          bucket at
                                                                                          > a somewhat slow rate until it is full.  Then when you need the bucket of
                                                                                          > water (large volume of water fast), you turn it over.  So, the power
                                                                                          pack
                                                                                          > charges the capacitor, the capacitor stores the charge of energy,
                                                                                          and when
                                                                                          > you need it to throw the switch machine you press the button ("dump the
                                                                                          > water").  You need it when you have a small (low amperage) power
                                                                                          supply and
                                                                                          > a high current (power requirement) switch machine.  So, if you have
                                                                                          a 10 amp
                                                                                          > capacity power supply, a capacitor discharge unit probably is not
                                                                                          needed.
                                                                                          > But if you are trying to throw a switch with a 1 amp power pack, and
                                                                                          > everything on the track stops (or slows down noticeably), then you
                                                                                          need the
                                                                                          > capacitor unit to store the energy to throw the switch.
                                                                                          >

                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > It is irrelevant whether you are trying to use this in a reversing loop
                                                                                          > situation, or a normal siding or yard type switch machine.  The
                                                                                          machine is
                                                                                          > looking for that big surge of power to "heave it over".       By the
                                                                                          way,
                                                                                          > there is a way to avoid this, and that is to use a low current
                                                                                          machine, such
                                                                                          > as a Tortoise unit.  But, if you are trying to use a 1 amp pack and
                                                                                          have 25
                                                                                          > low current switch machines, you are going to tax the power pack and
                                                                                          end up
                                                                                          > burning it up instead.
                                                                                          >

                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Hope this helps.  Come back if this generates more questions-I'll be
                                                                                          glad to
                                                                                          > try and answer them.   Regards,  JerryG.
                                                                                          >

                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >   _____ 
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com]
                                                                                          On Behalf
                                                                                          > Of takefive247
                                                                                          > Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 6:35 PM
                                                                                          > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > Subject: [vintageHO] capacitor discharge
                                                                                          >

                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Hello,
                                                                                          > Would someone give me a brief, plain english explanation, or tell me
                                                                                          > where to go, of how and why a capacitor discharge power supply for a
                                                                                          > turnout switch works? And why and when do you need it? I am trying to
                                                                                          > hook up a reversing section and looking for a way to prevent burned
                                                                                          > out switch machines.
                                                                                          > Bill
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > SPONSORED LINKS
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Ho
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ho+scale&w1=Ho+scale&w2=G+scale+model+t
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          rain&w3=G+scale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&c=5&s=105&.
                                                                                          > sig=8KOGo_UHbh1z3_tfejZc3g>  scale
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > G
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=G+scale+model+train&w1=Ho+scale&w2=G+sc
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          ale+model+train&w3=G+scale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&
                                                                                          > c=5&s=105&.sig=DYMOtZbTn2X5dWehROXrYA>  scale model train
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > G
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=G+scale+train&w1=Ho+scale&w2=G+scale+mo
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          del+train&w3=G+scale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&c=5&s=
                                                                                          > 105&.sig=jwWwyG6k7w-XKTP_W-OISw>  scale train
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Ho
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ho+scale+model+train&w1=Ho+scale&w2=G+s
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          cale+model+train&w3=G+scale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains
                                                                                          > &c=5&s=105&.sig=Efz14TYTnr3ek3U3Ki12dw>  scale model train
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Ho
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ho+scale+trains&w1=Ho+scale&w2=G+scale+
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          model+train&w3=G+scale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&c=5&
                                                                                          > s=105&.sig=fcEGSsw1wP9YV9MbEbe8sA>  scale trains
                                                                                          >

                                                                                          >

                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >   _____ 
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                                          >

                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > *      Visit your group "vintageHO
                                                                                          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO> " on the web.
                                                                                          >  
                                                                                          > *      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                          >  vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > <mailto:vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                                                                                          >  
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                                                                                          > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service.
                                                                                          >

                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >   _____
                                                                                          >




                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1169 From: Glenn Date: 3/15/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Kadee's #4 in MDC (Roundhouse) coupler pockets
                                                                                          The #4 shank had been the standard for Kadee and other couplers (MDC and Devore, for a couple) of the period.  The large post started with the dummy couplers with the Globe F7's and on into the Athearn cars, When Kadee made the #5 (or its predecessor) that spurred other manufacturers to make their coupler boxes the same. gj
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          From: Tom
                                                                                          Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 8:14 PM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Kadee's #4 in MDC (Roundhouse) coupler pockets

                                                                                          Imp Ster, my friend, Thank you for your tips, between you and the
                                                                                          other guys here I gave it another try tonight.  It took almost an
                                                                                          hour, but I got em! 

                                                                                          I would gladly use the #5's but the sheet bronze spring will not fit
                                                                                          into the coupler box.  These are OLD (emphasis) cars from late 40's
                                                                                          early 50's, everything is diecast except the handrails. The sides of
                                                                                          the cars are prepainted and lettered and I may be mistaken but are
                                                                                          also diecast,a very thin and fragile piece of metal to be sure. 
                                                                                          They belonged to my Dad, I remember drooling over them, many were
                                                                                          already built but there are several in kit form, when I was a kid. 
                                                                                          OK to look but don't touch!  The modeler has to paint the
                                                                                          underframe, roof, and ends as well as the brake gear,the cars are
                                                                                          assembled using small screws to hold the body together.  I haven't
                                                                                          weighed one, but I am certain they meet the NMRA standards..LOL. and
                                                                                          yes they do have the sprung trucks, although the wheels rusted a bit
                                                                                          when Dad stored them in his garage before handing them off to me. 
                                                                                          Weathering, who needs stinking weathering, its the real thing!

                                                                                          Wish I knew about the preassembled #4's... these are a pain.  One
                                                                                          other note about the #5's, the center hole is way too big for the
                                                                                          coupler pin in the diecast box, the slot in the #4 is a little
                                                                                          sloppy but not as bad as the #5. 

                                                                                          I also have several Varney plastic cars to convert with the same
                                                                                          situation, a very thin pin in the plastic box.  I will check the
                                                                                          Kadee website for the proper coupler but I have a sneaking suspicion
                                                                                          it is going to be the #4.

                                                                                          Thanks again  Tom Businger






                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Imp Ster" <iimpster@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Tom, i applaud your good intentions, but have you tried using the
                                                                                          > standard #5's instead? they will drop into the pocket and the 1-
                                                                                          piece
                                                                                          > sheet-bronze centering spring saves a lot of trouble.
                                                                                          > however if you are willing to go the extra mile, #4s do have a
                                                                                          nice
                                                                                          > centering action, if you can get the steel dowel inside the
                                                                                          smaller
                                                                                          > spring without altering the spring tension.
                                                                                          > (as you know, there are 2 springs included with #4 kits - the
                                                                                          knuckle
                                                                                          > closing spring which is slightly larger and stiffer, and the
                                                                                          > centering spring which is actualy quite fragile... in a pinch, the
                                                                                          > knuckle spring can be used as a centering spring, but you will
                                                                                          have a
                                                                                          > much stiffer centering action which can interfere with
                                                                                          the 'delayed'
                                                                                          > uncoupling action)
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > i use a common X-acto sharpie to grab and hold the spring, by
                                                                                          setting
                                                                                          > the blade edge into the spring coil.
                                                                                          > then carefuly slide the steel dowel into the spring with a NON-
                                                                                          > Magnetic tweezer.
                                                                                          > you can usually then set the spring-dowel combination into the
                                                                                          > coupler shank already in the box, which has been prepped
                                                                                          (burnished -
                                                                                          > de-burred etc).. Kadee recomends having the shank already in the
                                                                                          box,
                                                                                          > then dropping one end of the spring in the slot, then dragging the
                                                                                          > shank over the centering pin and setting in place.
                                                                                          > a very finicky proceedure, to be sure... which is why Kadee is now
                                                                                          > offering sets of #4's pre-assembled.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > btw, MDC is usualy ripe for #5 installation.
                                                                                          > #4 seems rather troublesome...?
                                                                                          > maybe you have an earlier pocket version??
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > hope my ramblings help... for more detail, see Kadee's MDC
                                                                                          conversion
                                                                                          > page here
                                                                                          > http://www.kadee.com/conv/hocc26.htm
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > cheers
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > ...
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Tom" <thomasbusinger@> wrote:
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > on converting to Kadee's #4,but having one heck of a time with the
                                                                                          > springs, they want to go everywhere but in the box. 
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Tom Businger, Cleveland Ohio
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          >




                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1170 From: Dave Slater Date: 3/16/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Kadee's #4 in MDC (Roundhouse) coupler pockets
                                                                                          Tom,
                                                                                          I think the Kadee "20" series are very close to #5's and have some extra "bushings" in them for the cars with smaller pins or screws. They differ mainly in length and some are either over set or under set knuckles to avoid adding shims or filing frames...
                                                                                          I can't check my charts right now as I am recovering from a broken wrist and do not have enough strength in that hand to move the stuff blocking access to my work bench..
                                                                                          HTH
                                                                                          Dave S.

                                                                                          Tom wrote:
                                                                                          Imp Ster, my friend, Thank you for your tips, between you and the
                                                                                          other guys here I gave it another try tonight.  It took almost an
                                                                                          hour, but I got em! 

                                                                                          I would gladly use the #5's but the sheet bronze spring will not fit
                                                                                          into the coupler box.  These are OLD (emphasis) cars from late 40's
                                                                                          early 50's, everything is diecast except the handrails. The sides of
                                                                                          the cars are prepainted and lettered and I may be mistaken but are
                                                                                          also diecast,a very thin and fragile piece of metal to be sure. 
                                                                                          They belonged to my Dad, I remember drooling over them, many were
                                                                                          already built but there are several in kit form, when I was a kid. 
                                                                                          OK to look but don't touch!  The modeler has to paint the
                                                                                          underframe, roof, and ends as well as the brake gear,the cars are
                                                                                          assembled using small screws to hold the body together.  I haven't
                                                                                          weighed one, but I am certain they meet the NMRA standards..LOL. and
                                                                                          yes they do have the sprung trucks, although the wheels rusted a bit
                                                                                          when Dad stored them in his garage before handing them off to me. 
                                                                                          Weathering, who needs stinking weathering, its the real thing!

                                                                                          Wish I knew about the preassembled #4's... these are a pain.  One
                                                                                          other note about the #5's, the center hole is way too big for the
                                                                                          coupler pin in the diecast box, the slot in the #4 is a little
                                                                                          sloppy but not as bad as the #5. 

                                                                                          I also have several Varney plastic cars to convert with the same
                                                                                          situation, a very thin pin in the plastic box.  I will check the
                                                                                          Kadee website for the proper coupler but I have a sneaking suspicion
                                                                                          it is going to be the #4.

                                                                                          Thanks again  Tom Businger






                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Imp Ster" <iimpster@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Tom, i applaud your good intentions, but have you tried using the
                                                                                          > standard #5's instead? they will drop into the pocket and the 1-
                                                                                          piece
                                                                                          > sheet-bronze centering spring saves a lot of trouble.
                                                                                          > however if you are willing to go the extra mile, #4s do have a
                                                                                          nice
                                                                                          > centering action, if you can get the steel dowel inside the
                                                                                          smaller
                                                                                          > spring without altering the spring tension.
                                                                                          > (as you know, there are 2 springs included with #4 kits - the
                                                                                          knuckle
                                                                                          > closing spring which is slightly larger and stiffer, and the
                                                                                          > centering spring which is actualy quite fragile... in a pinch, the
                                                                                          > knuckle spring can be used as a centering spring, but you will
                                                                                          have a
                                                                                          > much stiffer centering action which can interfere with
                                                                                          the 'delayed'
                                                                                          > uncoupling action)
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > i use a common X-acto sharpie to grab and hold the spring, by
                                                                                          setting
                                                                                          > the blade edge into the spring coil.
                                                                                          > then carefuly slide the steel dowel into the spring with a NON-
                                                                                          > Magnetic tweezer.
                                                                                          > you can usually then set the spring-dowel combination into the
                                                                                          > coupler shank already in the box, which has been prepped
                                                                                          (burnished -
                                                                                          > de-burred etc).. Kadee recomends having the shank already in the
                                                                                          box,
                                                                                          > then dropping one end of the spring in the slot, then dragging the
                                                                                          > shank over the centering pin and setting in place.
                                                                                          > a very finicky proceedure, to be sure... which is why Kadee is now
                                                                                          > offering sets of #4's pre-assembled.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > btw, MDC is usualy ripe for #5 installation.
                                                                                          > #4 seems rather troublesome...?
                                                                                          > maybe you have an earlier pocket version??
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > hope my ramblings help... for more detail, see Kadee's MDC
                                                                                          conversion
                                                                                          > page here
                                                                                          > http://www.kadee.com/conv/hocc26.htm
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > cheers
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > ...
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Tom" <thomasbusinger@> wrote:
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > on converting to Kadee's #4,but having one heck of a time with the
                                                                                          > springs, they want to go everywhere but in the box. 
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Tom Businger, Cleveland Ohio
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          >





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                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1171 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/16/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Kadee's #4 in MDC (Roundhouse) coupler pockets
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          From: Tom <thomasbusinger@...>
                                                                                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                          Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 10:14 PM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Kadee's #4 in MDC (Roundhouse) coupler pockets


                                                                                          > Imp Ster, my friend, Thank you for your tips, between you and the
                                                                                          > other guys here I gave it another try tonight. It took almost an
                                                                                          > hour, but I got em!
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > I would gladly use the #5's but the sheet bronze spring will not fit
                                                                                          > into the coupler box. These are OLD (emphasis) cars from late 40's
                                                                                          > early 50's, everything is diecast except the handrails. The sides of
                                                                                          > the cars are prepainted and lettered and I may be mistaken but are
                                                                                          > also diecast,a very thin and fragile piece of metal to be sure.
                                                                                          > They belonged to my Dad, I remember drooling over them, many were
                                                                                          > already built but there are several in kit form, when I was a kid.
                                                                                          > OK to look but don't touch! The modeler has to paint the
                                                                                          > underframe, roof, and ends as well as the brake gear,the cars are
                                                                                          > assembled using small screws to hold the body together. I haven't
                                                                                          > weighed one, but I am certain they meet the NMRA standards..LOL. and
                                                                                          > yes they do have the sprung trucks, although the wheels rusted a bit
                                                                                          > when Dad stored them in his garage before handing them off to me.
                                                                                          > Weathering, who needs stinking weathering, its the real thing!
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Wish I knew about the preassembled #4's... these are a pain. One
                                                                                          > other note about the #5's, the center hole is way too big for the
                                                                                          > coupler pin in the diecast box, the slot in the #4 is a little
                                                                                          > sloppy but not as bad as the #5.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > I also have several Varney plastic cars to convert with the same
                                                                                          > situation, a very thin pin in the plastic box. I will check the
                                                                                          > Kadee website for the proper coupler but I have a sneaking suspicion
                                                                                          > it is going to be the #4.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Thanks again Tom Businger

                                                                                          I don't think "pre-assembled" no. 4's are going to do you any good, since
                                                                                          you have to take them apart anyway to put in the MDC box.

                                                                                          If the No.5 spring will fit in the pocket, I've had decent luck cutting out
                                                                                          the small center post with a dremel, drilling and tapping a hole for a 1:72
                                                                                          or 2:56 screw in it's place, then use the number 5, using the BASE of the
                                                                                          no.5 pocket (with the boss holding the spring ), as the pocket COVER.

                                                                                          Don

                                                                                          don.dellmann@...
                                                                                          http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
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                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1172 From: Garry Spear Date: 3/16/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Kadee's #4 in MDC (Roundhouse) coupler pockets
                                                                                          I collect and operate old MDC diecast, Varney metal underframe, etc.
                                                                                          cars. After fighting with #4s for years and having shorting problems
                                                                                          between metal cars, I gave up on #4s.

                                                                                          Now I use a motor grinder (Dremel, etc.) to remove the coupler pocket
                                                                                          and mount a #5 with it's plastic box. Drill, tap, and 2-56 screws are
                                                                                          easy to obtain and use.

                                                                                          For a real challenge put Kaydes on Globe or Thomas tank cars.

                                                                                          Garry

                                                                                          On 3/15/06, Tom <thomasbusinger@...> wrote:
                                                                                          > Imp Ster, my friend, Thank you for your tips, between you and the
                                                                                          > other guys here I gave it another try tonight. It took almost an
                                                                                          > hour, but I got em!
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > I would gladly use the #5's but the sheet bronze spring will not fit
                                                                                          > into the coupler box. These are OLD (emphasis) cars from late 40's
                                                                                          > early 50's, everything is diecast except the handrails. The sides of
                                                                                          > the cars are prepainted and lettered and I may be mistaken but are
                                                                                          > also diecast,a very thin and fragile piece of metal to be sure.
                                                                                          > They belonged to my Dad, I remember drooling over them, many were
                                                                                          > already built but there are several in kit form, when I was a kid.
                                                                                          > OK to look but don't touch! The modeler has to paint the
                                                                                          > underframe, roof, and ends as well as the brake gear,the cars are
                                                                                          > assembled using small screws to hold the body together. I haven't
                                                                                          > weighed one, but I am certain they meet the NMRA standards..LOL. and
                                                                                          > yes they do have the sprung trucks, although the wheels rusted a bit
                                                                                          > when Dad stored them in his garage before handing them off to me.
                                                                                          > Weathering, who needs stinking weathering, its the real thing!
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Wish I knew about the preassembled #4's... these are a pain. One
                                                                                          > other note about the #5's, the center hole is way too big for the
                                                                                          > coupler pin in the diecast box, the slot in the #4 is a little
                                                                                          > sloppy but not as bad as the #5.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > I also have several Varney plastic cars to convert with the same
                                                                                          > situation, a very thin pin in the plastic box. I will check the
                                                                                          > Kadee website for the proper coupler but I have a sneaking suspicion
                                                                                          > it is going to be the #4.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Thanks again Tom Businger
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Imp Ster" <iimpster@...> wrote:
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > Tom, i applaud your good intentions, but have you tried using the
                                                                                          > > standard #5's instead? they will drop into the pocket and the 1-
                                                                                          > piece
                                                                                          > > sheet-bronze centering spring saves a lot of trouble.
                                                                                          > > however if you are willing to go the extra mile, #4s do have a
                                                                                          > nice
                                                                                          > > centering action, if you can get the steel dowel inside the
                                                                                          > smaller
                                                                                          > > spring without altering the spring tension.
                                                                                          > > (as you know, there are 2 springs included with #4 kits - the
                                                                                          > knuckle
                                                                                          > > closing spring which is slightly larger and stiffer, and the
                                                                                          > > centering spring which is actualy quite fragile... in a pinch, the
                                                                                          > > knuckle spring can be used as a centering spring, but you will
                                                                                          > have a
                                                                                          > > much stiffer centering action which can interfere with
                                                                                          > the 'delayed'
                                                                                          > > uncoupling action)
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > i use a common X-acto sharpie to grab and hold the spring, by
                                                                                          > setting
                                                                                          > > the blade edge into the spring coil.
                                                                                          > > then carefuly slide the steel dowel into the spring with a NON-
                                                                                          > > Magnetic tweezer.
                                                                                          > > you can usually then set the spring-dowel combination into the
                                                                                          > > coupler shank already in the box, which has been prepped
                                                                                          > (burnished -
                                                                                          > > de-burred etc).. Kadee recomends having the shank already in the
                                                                                          > box,
                                                                                          > > then dropping one end of the spring in the slot, then dragging the
                                                                                          > > shank over the centering pin and setting in place.
                                                                                          > > a very finicky proceedure, to be sure... which is why Kadee is now
                                                                                          > > offering sets of #4's pre-assembled.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > btw, MDC is usualy ripe for #5 installation.
                                                                                          > > #4 seems rather troublesome...?
                                                                                          > > maybe you have an earlier pocket version??
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > hope my ramblings help... for more detail, see Kadee's MDC
                                                                                          > conversion
                                                                                          > > page here
                                                                                          > > http://www.kadee.com/conv/hocc26.htm
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > cheers
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > ...
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Tom" <thomasbusinger@> wrote:
                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                          > > on converting to Kadee's #4,but having one heck of a time with the
                                                                                          > > springs, they want to go everywhere but in the box.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > Tom Businger, Cleveland Ohio
                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1173 From: takefive247 Date: 3/16/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: capacitor discharge
                                                                                          Thanks Guys,
                                                                                          So, if I understand this correctly, the resistor, in series with the
                                                                                          capacitor and switch machine, is what prevents the machine from
                                                                                          burning. What is the purpose of the diode in parallel with the switch
                                                                                          machine?
                                                                                          Perhaps I should explain. I am trying to control four switch
                                                                                          machines, two crossing gates, a flashing signal and bell, and reverse
                                                                                          the track polarity. All from the same optical sensing circuit board.
                                                                                          It works great with a single engine until the lights go down or I add
                                                                                          cars, and the sensors go haywire. I've only burned up two old Atlas
                                                                                          switch machines.
                                                                                          I know this subject is a little off topic for this group and you old
                                                                                          veterans at this are out there shaking your heads, but you are a big
                                                                                          help and the Town Line reverse loop will work.
                                                                                          Thanks
                                                                                          Bill

                                                                                          PS. Sorry about the double post before. Computers are another one of
                                                                                          my shortcommings.


                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > if the button is held down or gets stuck, the capacitor cannot
                                                                                          recharge, and only a minor current can flow thru the coils.
                                                                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          > From: takefive247
                                                                                          > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 6:50 PM
                                                                                          > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: capacitor discharge
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Thanks Jerry,
                                                                                          > Not sure if this is the right group to pursue this but if it's OK I
                                                                                          > would appreciate the help. Your explanations was helpful but I don't
                                                                                          > think it (the capacitor) will solve my problem completely. Would you
                                                                                          > know how it is connected to prevent burnout's if the input or buttons
                                                                                          > gets stuck?
                                                                                          > Bill
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Garteiser" <jerryg@> wrote:
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > I will try. Basically, the capacitor stores energy, to be released
                                                                                          > when
                                                                                          > > called upon (as in closing a circuit/pushing a button). Think of
                                                                                          > it this
                                                                                          > > way- think of a garden hose and bucket. The garden hose is your
                                                                                          > power pack.
                                                                                          > > The bucket is your capacitor. You use the garden hose to fill the
                                                                                          > bucket at
                                                                                          > > a somewhat slow rate until it is full. Then when you need the
                                                                                          bucket of
                                                                                          > > water (large volume of water fast), you turn it over. So, the power
                                                                                          > pack
                                                                                          > > charges the capacitor, the capacitor stores the charge of energy,
                                                                                          > and when
                                                                                          > > you need it to throw the switch machine you press the button
                                                                                          ("dump the
                                                                                          > > water"). You need it when you have a small (low amperage) power
                                                                                          > supply and
                                                                                          > > a high current (power requirement) switch machine. So, if you have
                                                                                          > a 10 amp
                                                                                          > > capacity power supply, a capacitor discharge unit probably is not
                                                                                          > needed.
                                                                                          > > But if you are trying to throw a switch with a 1 amp power pack, and
                                                                                          > > everything on the track stops (or slows down noticeably), then you
                                                                                          > need the
                                                                                          > > capacitor unit to store the energy to throw the switch.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > It is irrelevant whether you are trying to use this in a
                                                                                          reversing loop
                                                                                          > > situation, or a normal siding or yard type switch machine. The
                                                                                          > machine is
                                                                                          > > looking for that big surge of power to "heave it over". By the
                                                                                          > way,
                                                                                          > > there is a way to avoid this, and that is to use a low current
                                                                                          > machine, such
                                                                                          > > as a Tortoise unit. But, if you are trying to use a 1 amp pack and
                                                                                          > have 25
                                                                                          > > low current switch machines, you are going to tax the power pack and
                                                                                          > end up
                                                                                          > > burning it up instead.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > Hope this helps. Come back if this generates more questions-I'll be
                                                                                          > glad to
                                                                                          > > try and answer them. Regards, JerryG.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > _____
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com]
                                                                                          > On Behalf
                                                                                          > > Of takefive247
                                                                                          > > Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 6:35 PM
                                                                                          > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > > Subject: [vintageHO] capacitor discharge
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > Hello,
                                                                                          > > Would someone give me a brief, plain english explanation, or tell me
                                                                                          > > where to go, of how and why a capacitor discharge power supply for a
                                                                                          > > turnout switch works? And why and when do you need it? I am
                                                                                          trying to
                                                                                          > > hook up a reversing section and looking for a way to prevent burned
                                                                                          > > out switch machines.
                                                                                          > > Bill
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > SPONSORED LINKS
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > Ho
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ho+scale&w1=Ho+scale&w2=G+scale+model+t
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          rain&w3=G+scale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&c=5&s=105&.
                                                                                          > > sig=8KOGo_UHbh1z3_tfejZc3g> scale
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > G
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=G+scale+model+train&w1=Ho+scale&w2=G+sc
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          ale+model+train&w3=G+scale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&
                                                                                          > > c=5&s=105&.sig=DYMOtZbTn2X5dWehROXrYA> scale model train
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > G
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=G+scale+train&w1=Ho+scale&w2=G+scale+mo
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          del+train&w3=G+scale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&c=5&s=
                                                                                          > > 105&.sig=jwWwyG6k7w-XKTP_W-OISw> scale train
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > Ho
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ho+scale+model+train&w1=Ho+scale&w2=G+s
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          cale+model+train&w3=G+scale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains
                                                                                          > > &c=5&s=105&.sig=Efz14TYTnr3ek3U3Ki12dw> scale model train
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > Ho
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ho+scale+trains&w1=Ho+scale&w2=G+scale+
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          model+train&w3=G+scale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&c=5&
                                                                                          > > s=105&.sig=fcEGSsw1wP9YV9MbEbe8sA> scale trains
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > _____
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > * Visit your group "vintageHO
                                                                                          > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO> " on the web.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                          > > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > > <mailto:vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                                                                                          > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > _____
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > SPONSORED LINKS Ho scale G scale model train G scale train
                                                                                          > Ho scale model train Ho scale trains
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                          > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > a.. Visit your group "vintageHO" on the web.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                                                                                          >
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                                                                                          >
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                                                                                          >
                                                                                          ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1174 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 3/16/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: capacitor discharge

                                                                                          Bill-that I do not know.  I am guessing someone has a circuit that would cure that, but I have never paid attention to that feature.  On mine, the power pack starts to recharge as soon as the button is pushed, and keeps on until the capacitor is charged.  So, if I stick a button, the capacitor keeps on putting out juice.

                                                                                           

                                                                                          I use the Acme push button controllers, and in 40 years have never had one to stick.  I have two panels (one with 7  machines, one with 5) and they continue to work flawlessly.  If you are having trouble with buttons, may be better to cure that problem than go into complicated circuitry.

                                                                                           

                                                                                          And yes, all questions pertaining to model railroading are open to the floor.  Someone always seems to have a solution to our problems  (appears to be a LOT of expertise and experience in this group!).

                                                                                           

                                                                                          Anybody else out there know of a current limiting device???    Regards,  Jerry

                                                                                           


                                                                                          From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of takefive247
                                                                                          Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 8:25 PM
                                                                                          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: capacitor discharge

                                                                                           

                                                                                          Thanks Jerry,
                                                                                          Not sure if this is the right group to pursue this but if it's OK I
                                                                                          would appreciate the help. Your explanations was helpful but I don't
                                                                                          think it (the capacitor)  will solve my problem completely. Would you
                                                                                          know how it is connected to prevent burnout's if the input or buttons
                                                                                          gets stuck?
                                                                                          Bill


                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com , "Jerry Garteiser" <jerryg@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > I will try.   Basically, the capacitor stores energy, to be released
                                                                                          when
                                                                                          > called upon (as in closing a circuit/pushing a button).   Think of
                                                                                          it this
                                                                                          > way- think of a garden hose and bucket.  The garden hose is your
                                                                                          power pack.
                                                                                          > The bucket is your capacitor.  You use the garden hose to fill the
                                                                                          bucket at
                                                                                          > a somewhat slow rate until it is full.  Then when you need the bucket of
                                                                                          > water (large volume of water fast), you turn it over.  So, the power
                                                                                          pack
                                                                                          > charges the capacitor, the capacitor stores the charge of energy,
                                                                                          and when
                                                                                          > you need it to throw the switch machine you press the button ("dump the
                                                                                          > water").  You need it when you have a small (low amperage) power
                                                                                          supply and
                                                                                          > a high current (power requirement) switch machine.  So, if you have
                                                                                          a 10 amp
                                                                                          > capacity power supply, a capacitor discharge unit probably is not
                                                                                          needed.
                                                                                          > But if you are trying to throw a switch with a 1 amp power pack, and
                                                                                          > everything on the track stops (or slows down noticeably), then you
                                                                                          need the
                                                                                          > capacitor unit to store the energy to throw the switch.
                                                                                          >

                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > It is irrelevant whether you are trying to use this in a reversing loop
                                                                                          > situation, or a normal siding or yard type switch machine.  The
                                                                                          machine is
                                                                                          > looking for that big surge of power to "heave it over".       By the
                                                                                          way,
                                                                                          > there is a way to avoid this, and that is to use a low current
                                                                                          machine, such
                                                                                          > as a Tortoise unit.  But, if you are trying to use a 1 amp pack and
                                                                                          have 25
                                                                                          > low current switch machines, you are going to tax the power pack and
                                                                                          end up
                                                                                          > burning it up instead.
                                                                                          >

                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Hope this helps.  Come back if this generates more questions-I'll be
                                                                                          glad to
                                                                                          > try and answer them.   Regards,  JerryG.
                                                                                          >

                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >   _____ 
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ]
                                                                                          On Behalf
                                                                                          > Of takefive247
                                                                                          > Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 6:35 PM
                                                                                          > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > Subject: [vintageHO] capacitor discharge
                                                                                          >

                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Hello,
                                                                                          > Would someone give me a brief, plain english explanation, or tell me
                                                                                          > where to go, of how and why a capacitor discharge power supply for a
                                                                                          > turnout switch works? And why and when do you need it? I am trying to
                                                                                          > hook up a reversing section and looking for a way to prevent burned
                                                                                          > out switch machines.
                                                                                          > Bill
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
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                                                                                          >
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                                                                                          >
                                                                                          rain&w3=G+scale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&c=5&s=105&.
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                                                                                          >
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                                                                                          > s=105&.sig=fcEGSsw1wP9YV9MbEbe8sA>  scale trains
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                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1175 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 3/16/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Kadee's #4 in MDC (Roundhouse) coupler pockets

                                                                                          Tom:  Kadee 20 series couplers are “made” for Talgo trucks (the kind with integral coupler boxes attached to the trucks).  There is a great variety of configuration in such trucks/boxes, so Kadee puts bushings in these coupler packages to compensate.  The 20’ are basically #5’s, but come in a variety of shank styles (long, regular, short; overset, regular, underset heads) to also compensate for all the variations in the mounting heights.  So you should be able to cobble something up.  But before you do, set a #5 centering spring into the boxes you have to be sure you have sufficient room (all the 20’s use the #5 bronze spring);  I recall some of the older cars (Walthers and MDC) had small cast-on boxes because all they had to get in there were the old “dummy” knuckle couplers with a small hole in the shank to retain them.

                                                                                           

                                                                                          I have 4 of the Varney paper/wood cars from WWII and two Walthers cast metal cars (they meet NMRA weight standards for a 110’ long car!) that I believe must have been the last of the ’41 production before WWII set in (my Dad’s old stock and entertainment during the war when he got to come home).  Look at these, and you realize how much the hobby has progressed.

                                                                                           

                                                                                          Good luck!   JerryG.

                                                                                           


                                                                                          From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Tom
                                                                                          Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 10:15 PM
                                                                                          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Kadee's #4 in MDC (Roundhouse) coupler pockets

                                                                                           

                                                                                          Imp Ster, my friend, Thank you for your tips, between you and the
                                                                                          other guys here I gave it another try tonight.  It took almost an
                                                                                          hour, but I got em! 

                                                                                          I would gladly use the #5's but the sheet bronze spring will not fit
                                                                                          into the coupler box.  These are OLD (emphasis) cars from late 40's
                                                                                          early 50's, everything is diecast except the handrails. The sides of
                                                                                          the cars are prepainted and lettered and I may be mistaken but are
                                                                                          also diecast,a very thin and fragile piece of metal to be sure. 
                                                                                          They belonged to my Dad, I remember drooling over them, many were
                                                                                          already built but there are several in kit form, when I was a kid. 
                                                                                          OK to look but don't touch!  The modeler has to paint the
                                                                                          underframe, roof, and ends as well as the brake gear,the cars are
                                                                                          assembled using small screws to hold the body together.  I haven't
                                                                                          weighed one, but I am certain they meet the NMRA standards..LOL. and
                                                                                          yes they do have the sprung trucks, although the wheels rusted a bit
                                                                                          when Dad stored them in his garage before handing them off to me. 
                                                                                          Weathering, who needs stinking weathering, its the real thing!

                                                                                          Wish I knew about the preassembled #4's... these are a pain.  One
                                                                                          other note about the #5's, the center hole is way too big for the
                                                                                          coupler pin in the diecast box, the slot in the #4 is a little
                                                                                          sloppy but not as bad as the #5. 

                                                                                          I also have several Varney plastic cars to convert with the same
                                                                                          situation, a very thin pin in the plastic box.  I will check the
                                                                                          Kadee website for the proper coupler but I have a sneaking suspicion
                                                                                          it is going to be the #4.

                                                                                          Thanks again  Tom Businger






                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com , "Imp Ster" <iimpster@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Tom, i applaud your good intentions, but have you tried using the
                                                                                          > standard #5's instead? they will drop into the pocket and the 1-
                                                                                          piece
                                                                                          > sheet-bronze centering spring saves a lot of trouble.
                                                                                          > however if you are willing to go the extra mile, #4s do have a
                                                                                          nice
                                                                                          > centering action, if you can get the steel dowel inside the
                                                                                          smaller
                                                                                          > spring without altering the spring tension.
                                                                                          > (as you know, there are 2 springs included with #4 kits - the
                                                                                          knuckle
                                                                                          > closing spring which is slightly larger and stiffer, and the
                                                                                          > centering spring which is actualy quite fragile... in a pinch, the
                                                                                          > knuckle spring can be used as a centering spring, but you will
                                                                                          have a
                                                                                          > much stiffer centering action which can interfere with
                                                                                          the 'delayed'
                                                                                          > uncoupling action)
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > i use a common X-acto sharpie to grab and hold the spring, by
                                                                                          setting
                                                                                          > the blade edge into the spring coil.
                                                                                          > then carefuly slide the steel dowel into the spring with a NON-
                                                                                          > Magnetic tweezer.
                                                                                          > you can usually then set the spring-dowel combination into the
                                                                                          > coupler shank already in the box, which has been prepped
                                                                                          (burnished -
                                                                                          > de-burred etc).. Kadee recomends having the shank already in the
                                                                                          box,
                                                                                          > then dropping one end of the spring in the slot, then dragging the
                                                                                          > shank over the centering pin and setting in place.
                                                                                          > a very finicky proceedure, to be sure... which is why Kadee is now
                                                                                          > offering sets of #4's pre-assembled.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > btw, MDC is usualy ripe for #5 installation.
                                                                                          > #4 seems rather troublesome...?
                                                                                          > maybe you have an earlier pocket version??
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > hope my ramblings help... for more detail, see Kadee's MDC
                                                                                          conversion
                                                                                          > page here
                                                                                          > http://www.kadee.com/conv/hocc26.htm
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > cheers
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > ...
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com , "Tom" <thomasbusinger@> wrote:
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > on converting to Kadee's #4,but having one heck of a time with the
                                                                                          > springs, they want to go everywhere but in the box. 
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Tom Businger, Cleveland Ohio
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          >





                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1176 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 3/16/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: capacitor discharge
                                                                                          The purpose of the diode is to clamp (short) a reverse voltage spike.  You will notice that it is wired to that no current normally flows through it in this DC circuit.  But a coil is the load.  When the coil is energized, a magnetic field builds up around it.  When the coil is deenergized, that field collapses - fast.  This collapsing field generates a voltage in the opposite polarity - a very high voltage.  (it becomes a short term generator).  However, the diode is forward biased to the voltage spike shorts out the fairly small amount of current associated it with.  It prevents the mechanical contact that originally made the circuit from arcing.  Or, of the "contact" is the output of some semiconductor device, it prevents that output from being over-voltaged and becoming damaged.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Such a diode, or certain other solid state protective devices that are a little more fancy, are often put across relay coils for the same reason.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Chuck Kinzer
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 6:50 AM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: capacitor discharge

                                                                                          Thanks Guys,
                                                                                          So, if I understand this correctly, the resistor, in series with the
                                                                                          capacitor and switch machine, is what prevents the machine from
                                                                                          burning. What is the purpose of the diode in parallel with the switch
                                                                                          machine?
                                                                                          Perhaps I should explain. I am trying to control four switch
                                                                                          machines, two crossing gates, a flashing signal and bell, and reverse
                                                                                          the track polarity. All from the same optical sensing circuit board.
                                                                                          It works great with a single engine until the lights go down or I add
                                                                                          cars, and the sensors go haywire. I've only burned up two old Atlas
                                                                                          switch machines.
                                                                                          I know this subject is a little off topic for this group and you old
                                                                                          veterans at this are out there shaking your heads, but you are a big
                                                                                          help and the Town Line reverse loop will work.
                                                                                          Thanks
                                                                                          Bill

                                                                                          PS. Sorry about the double post before. Computers are another one of
                                                                                          my shortcommings.


                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > if the button is held down or gets stuck, the capacitor cannot
                                                                                          recharge, and only a minor current can flow thru the coils.
                                                                                          >   ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          >   From: takefive247
                                                                                          >   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          >   Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 6:50 PM
                                                                                          >   Subject: [vintageHO] Re: capacitor discharge
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >   Thanks Jerry,
                                                                                          >   Not sure if this is the right group to pursue this but if it's OK I
                                                                                          >   would appreciate the help. Your explanations was helpful but I don't
                                                                                          >   think it (the capacitor)  will solve my problem completely. Would you
                                                                                          >   know how it is connected to prevent burnout's if the input or buttons
                                                                                          >   gets stuck?
                                                                                          >   Bill
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >   --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Garteiser" <jerryg@> wrote:
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   > I will try.   Basically, the capacitor stores energy, to be released
                                                                                          >   when
                                                                                          >   > called upon (as in closing a circuit/pushing a button).   Think of
                                                                                          >   it this
                                                                                          >   > way- think of a garden hose and bucket.  The garden hose is your
                                                                                          >   power pack.
                                                                                          >   > The bucket is your capacitor.  You use the garden hose to fill the
                                                                                          >   bucket at
                                                                                          >   > a somewhat slow rate until it is full.  Then when you need the
                                                                                          bucket of
                                                                                          >   > water (large volume of water fast), you turn it over.  So, the power
                                                                                          >   pack
                                                                                          >   > charges the capacitor, the capacitor stores the charge of energy,
                                                                                          >   and when
                                                                                          >   > you need it to throw the switch machine you press the button
                                                                                          ("dump the
                                                                                          >   > water").  You need it when you have a small (low amperage) power
                                                                                          >   supply and
                                                                                          >   > a high current (power requirement) switch machine.  So, if you have
                                                                                          >   a 10 amp
                                                                                          >   > capacity power supply, a capacitor discharge unit probably is not
                                                                                          >   needed.
                                                                                          >   > But if you are trying to throw a switch with a 1 amp power pack, and
                                                                                          >   > everything on the track stops (or slows down noticeably), then you
                                                                                          >   need the
                                                                                          >   > capacitor unit to store the energy to throw the switch.
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   > 
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   > It is irrelevant whether you are trying to use this in a
                                                                                          reversing loop
                                                                                          >   > situation, or a normal siding or yard type switch machine.  The
                                                                                          >   machine is
                                                                                          >   > looking for that big surge of power to "heave it over".       By the
                                                                                          >   way,
                                                                                          >   > there is a way to avoid this, and that is to use a low current
                                                                                          >   machine, such
                                                                                          >   > as a Tortoise unit.  But, if you are trying to use a 1 amp pack and
                                                                                          >   have 25
                                                                                          >   > low current switch machines, you are going to tax the power pack and
                                                                                          >   end up
                                                                                          >   > burning it up instead.
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   > 
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   > Hope this helps.  Come back if this generates more questions-I'll be
                                                                                          >   glad to
                                                                                          >   > try and answer them.   Regards,  JerryG.
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   > 
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   >   _____ 
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com]
                                                                                          >   On Behalf
                                                                                          >   > Of takefive247
                                                                                          >   > Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 6:35 PM
                                                                                          >   > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          >   > Subject: [vintageHO] capacitor discharge
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   > 
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   > Hello,
                                                                                          >   > Would someone give me a brief, plain english explanation, or tell me
                                                                                          >   > where to go, of how and why a capacitor discharge power supply for a
                                                                                          >   > turnout switch works? And why and when do you need it? I am
                                                                                          trying to
                                                                                          >   > hook up a reversing section and looking for a way to prevent burned
                                                                                          >   > out switch machines.
                                                                                          >   > Bill
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1177 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 3/16/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: capacitor discharge

                                                                                          Bill-no sweat-there are those of us who have in the past double posted as well!  We can’t be experts at everything (at least I sure can’t!).

                                                                                           

                                                                                          Now you are getting complicated!  I am not an Elec. Engineer, so not exactly how you do all this.  The optical sensor probably does not have the current capacity in its contacts to do all this.  And yes, you will need the capacitor discharge system to throw the four turnouts.  So, the rest of you  guys out there chime in on this.  But I would suggest using one aux. relay triggered off the optic unit to throw the switches; a second time delay relay triggered off the optic unit to run the crossing gates/signal/bell (they need to stay on 5-10 seconds??); and if the optic board does not have provisions to do the auto reverse for the track polarity, someone’s (Dallee Electronics) auto reverser circuit system also driven by the optic board output.   There are a lot of things going on here that have different power/timing requirements, so it is not a simple solution.  It almost appears that you need a cheap microprocessor to do all this stuff if you want to trigger it from just one output (the optic sensor system). Got any friends locally that do electronics/circuit work?  Some microprcessors are under $100 now (the price of a RTR locomotive), and could do this pretty easily.

                                                                                           

                                                                                          Regards,  JerryG

                                                                                           


                                                                                          From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of takefive247
                                                                                          Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 8:51 AM
                                                                                          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: capacitor discharge

                                                                                           

                                                                                          Thanks Guys,
                                                                                          So, if I understand this correctly, the resistor, in series with the
                                                                                          capacitor and switch machine, is what prevents the machine from
                                                                                          burning. What is the purpose of the diode in parallel with the switch
                                                                                          machine?
                                                                                          Perhaps I should explain. I am trying to control four switch
                                                                                          machines, two crossing gates, a flashing signal and bell, and reverse
                                                                                          the track polarity. All from the same optical sensing circuit board.
                                                                                          It works great with a single engine until the lights go down or I add
                                                                                          cars, and the sensors go haywire. I've only burned up two old Atlas
                                                                                          switch machines.
                                                                                          I know this subject is a little off topic for this group and you old
                                                                                          veterans at this are out there shaking your heads, but you are a big
                                                                                          help and the Town Line reverse loop will work.
                                                                                          Thanks
                                                                                          Bill

                                                                                          PS. Sorry about the double post before. Computers are another one of
                                                                                          my shortcommings.


                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com , "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > if the button is held down or gets stuck, the capacitor cannot
                                                                                          recharge, and only a minor current can flow thru the coils.
                                                                                          >   ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          >   From: takefive247
                                                                                          >   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          >   Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 6:50 PM
                                                                                          >   Subject: [vintageHO] Re: capacitor discharge
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >   Thanks Jerry,
                                                                                          >   Not sure if this is the right group to pursue this but if it's OK I
                                                                                          >   would appreciate the help. Your explanations was helpful but I don't
                                                                                          >   think it (the capacitor)  will solve my problem completely. Would you
                                                                                          >   know how it is connected to prevent burnout's if the input or buttons
                                                                                          >   gets stuck?
                                                                                          >   Bill
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >   --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com , "Jerry Garteiser" <jerryg@> wrote:
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   > I will try.   Basically, the capacitor stores energy, to be released
                                                                                          >   when
                                                                                          >   > called upon (as in closing a circuit/pushing a button).   Think of
                                                                                          >   it this
                                                                                          >   > way- think of a garden hose and bucket.  The garden hose is your
                                                                                          >   power pack.
                                                                                          >   > The bucket is your capacitor.  You use the garden hose to fill the
                                                                                          >   bucket at
                                                                                          >   > a somewhat slow rate until it is full.  Then when you need the
                                                                                          bucket of
                                                                                          >   > water (large volume of water fast), you turn it over.  So, the power
                                                                                          >   pack
                                                                                          >   > charges the capacitor, the capacitor stores the charge of energy,
                                                                                          >   and when
                                                                                          >   > you need it to throw the switch machine you press the button
                                                                                          ("dump the
                                                                                          >   > water").  You need it when you have a small (low amperage) power
                                                                                          >   supply and
                                                                                          >   > a high current (power requirement) switch machine.  So, if you have
                                                                                          >   a 10 amp
                                                                                          >   > capacity power supply, a capacitor discharge unit probably is not
                                                                                          >   needed.
                                                                                          >   > But if you are trying to throw a switch with a 1 amp power pack, and
                                                                                          >   > everything on the track stops (or slows down noticeably), then you
                                                                                          >   need the
                                                                                          >   > capacitor unit to store the energy to throw the switch.
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   > 
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   > It is irrelevant whether you are trying to use this in a
                                                                                          reversing loop
                                                                                          >   > situation, or a normal siding or yard type switch machine.  The
                                                                                          >   machine is
                                                                                          >   > looking for that big surge of power to "heave it over".       By the
                                                                                          >   way,
                                                                                          >   > there is a way to avoid this, and that is to use a low current
                                                                                          >   machine, such
                                                                                          >   > as a Tortoise unit.  But, if you are trying to use a 1 amp pack and
                                                                                          >   have 25
                                                                                          >   > low current switch machines, you are going to tax the power pack and
                                                                                          >   end up
                                                                                          >   > burning it up instead.
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   > 
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   > Hope this helps.  Come back if this generates more questions-I'll be
                                                                                          >   glad to
                                                                                          >   > try and answer them.   Regards,  JerryG.
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   > 
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   >   _____ 
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ]
                                                                                          >   On Behalf
                                                                                          >   > Of takefive247
                                                                                          >   > Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 6:35 PM
                                                                                          >   > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          >   > Subject: [vintageHO] capacitor discharge
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   > 
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   > Hello,
                                                                                          >   > Would someone give me a brief, plain english explanation, or tell me
                                                                                          >   > where to go, of how and why a capacitor discharge power supply for a
                                                                                          >   > turnout switch works? And why and when do you need it? I am
                                                                                          trying to
                                                                                          >   > hook up a reversing section and looking for a way to prevent burned
                                                                                          >   > out switch machines.
                                                                                          >   > Bill
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   > SPONSORED LINKS
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   > Ho
                                                                                          >   >

                                                                                          <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ho+scale&w1=Ho+scale&w2=G+scale+model+t
                                                                                          >   >

                                                                                          rain&w3=G+scale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&c=5&s=105&.
                                                                                          >   > sig=8KOGo_UHbh1z3_tfejZc3g>  scale
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   > G
                                                                                          >   >

                                                                                          <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=G+scale+model+train&w1=Ho+scale&w2=G+sc
                                                                                          >   >

                                                                                          ale+model+train&w3=G+scale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&
                                                                                          >   > c=5&s=105&.sig=DYMOtZbTn2X5dWehROXrYA>  scale model train
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   > G
                                                                                          >   >

                                                                                          <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=G+scale+train&w1=Ho+scale&w2=G+scale+mo
                                                                                          >   >

                                                                                          del+train&w3=G+scale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&c=5&s=
                                                                                          >   > 105&.sig=jwWwyG6k7w-XKTP_W-OISw>  scale train
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   > Ho
                                                                                          >   >

                                                                                          <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ho+scale+model+train&w1=Ho+scale&w2=G+s
                                                                                          >   >

                                                                                          cale+model+train&w3=G+scale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains
                                                                                          >   > &c=5&s=105&.sig=Efz14TYTnr3ek3U3Ki12dw>  scale model train
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   > Ho
                                                                                          >   >

                                                                                          <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ho+scale+trains&w1=Ho+scale&w2=G+scale+
                                                                                          >   >

                                                                                          model+train&w3=G+scale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&c=5&
                                                                                          >   > s=105&.sig=fcEGSsw1wP9YV9MbEbe8sA>  scale trains
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   > 
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   > 
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   >   _____ 
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   > 
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   > *      Visit your group "vintageHO
                                                                                          >   > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO> " on the web.
                                                                                          >   >  
                                                                                          >   > *      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >   SPONSORED LINKS Ho scale  G scale model train  G scale train 
                                                                                          >         Ho scale model train  Ho scale trains 
                                                                                          >
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                                                                                          ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1178 From: Don Riley Date: 3/16/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Accurail autorack was Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca.
                                                                                          So is there anything I need to know before I have at it? Looks fairly straight forward though involved. Do they sides build up well?
                                                                                          Chains? Are they to hold the cars still?
                                                                                          I intend to have it full of cars. Not sure on what veriety I will put in it yet. I was going to use some Athearn cars but well they are well..... you know..... Anyway I was looking at models of cars at the train store I got the rack from and found some nice ones. I was thinking about glueing them down. (same with the Athearns). Is there a better way?
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Steamengine 4449

                                                                                          Ilcentral@... wrote:
                                                                                          Steamengine 4449,
                                                                                          I have built a few of the Accurail bi level auto racks there great cars. One thing that you have to do to them though is add the chains from post to post if nothing else it will be time well spent.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          John Pitts


                                                                                          Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!

                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1179 From: dougkrahn Date: 3/16/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Accurail autorack was Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca.
                                                                                          I have a friend who has assembled server of the Accurail bi level
                                                                                          auto racks and he has commented on how well they go together and how
                                                                                          well they are engineered ( and he is one picky son of a gun).
                                                                                          Althought I don't think he realized that they still need chains. :)

                                                                                          Doug

                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Don Riley <steamengine4449us@...>
                                                                                          wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > So is there anything I need to know before I have at it? Looks
                                                                                          fairly straight forward though involved. Do they sides build up well?
                                                                                          > Chains? Are they to hold the cars still?
                                                                                          > I intend to have it full of cars. Not sure on what veriety I will
                                                                                          put in it yet. I was going to use some Athearn cars but well they are
                                                                                          well..... you know..... Anyway I was looking at models of cars at the
                                                                                          train store I got the rack from and found some nice ones. I was
                                                                                          thinking about glueing them down. (same with the Athearns). Is there
                                                                                          a better way?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Steamengine 4449
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Ilcentral@... wrote:
                                                                                          > Steamengine 4449,
                                                                                          > I have built a few of the Accurail bi level auto racks there
                                                                                          great cars. One thing that you have to do to them though is add the
                                                                                          chains from post to post if nothing else it will be time well spent.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > John Pitts
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > ---------------------------------
                                                                                          > Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1180 From: AL Date: 3/16/2006
                                                                                          Subject: tyco truck conversion
                                                                                          >Gerry, I did one Tyco car this weekend, exactly as you said, put
                                                                                          some coupler boxes on it and some #5's... I dont have the metal
                                                                                          wheels yet, but I put it in a train and it ran just fine, oversize
                                                                                          ladders and all. Since I have close to 50 of these it may be a
                                                                                          while but I think some may find their way onto the layout. Some of
                                                                                          the older AHM cars sound like they are on a washboard due to the
                                                                                          oversize wheel flanges so they will have to wait their turn in the
                                                                                          car shops.
                                                                                          Thanks for your advice, Tom Businger


                                                                                          Tom ( or anyone)...

                                                                                          are you cutting off the tyco talgo trucks ( and using the original trucks,
                                                                                          with replacement wheelsets), or are you swapping out the entire trucks ?

                                                                                          reason being , is I also collect Tyco * ducks , sorry, not true vintage*,
                                                                                          and have quite a few old Tyco truck (some with,some without wheelsets),
                                                                                          that have the talgo coupler pockets already cut off - got these over the
                                                                                          years from various Tyco's that I changed back to original talgo operation.

                                                                                          I'd be interested in swapping the cut frames for uncut ones ( someone might
                                                                                          as well use them), or in purchasing the trucks that you;re swapping out (
                                                                                          and the Tyco , or other horn-hook couplers as well ).

                                                                                          I know it sounds pretty 'anal -collector-ish', but they aren;t making new
                                                                                          Tyco trucks, so I'd hate to see more of them cut up than need be.

                                                                                          drop me a line off -list if interested in working something out
                                                                                          (cash,trade,vintage brass,my forstborn child, etc, lol )

                                                                                          ~ AL
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1181 From: Gerry D Date: 3/16/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Rant Alert: fear & loathing in Carson, Ca. (Athearn in decline)
                                                                                          --- Tom <thomasbusinger@...> wrote:

                                                                                          > Gerry, I did one Tyco car this weekend, exactly as
                                                                                          > you said, put
                                                                                          > some coupler boxes on it and some #5's... I dont
                                                                                          > have the metal
                                                                                          > wheels yet, but I put it in a train and it ran just
                                                                                          > fine, oversize
                                                                                          > ladders and all. Since I have close to 50 of these
                                                                                          > it may be a
                                                                                          > while but I think some may find their way onto the
                                                                                          > layout. Some of
                                                                                          > the older AHM cars sound like they are on a
                                                                                          > washboard due to the
                                                                                          > oversize wheel flanges so they will have to wait
                                                                                          > their turn in the
                                                                                          > car shops.
                                                                                          > Thanks for your advice, Tom Businger
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Tom,
                                                                                          The cars that have the trucks with the newer
                                                                                          center-spring (tab) that hold the coupler can be
                                                                                          replaced or just lop off the whole coupler box from
                                                                                          the truck and body mount em' I've even used a dremmel
                                                                                          and a cutoff wheel to cut off the metal boxes and then
                                                                                          use body mounted couplers. As I remember, when I was
                                                                                          running them, they ran well, but that was code 100
                                                                                          track.

                                                                                          That's what I have planned for the Tyco/Mantua cars I
                                                                                          have not converted or just aquired, (devil be damned
                                                                                          with collecting them in perfect condition, I want to
                                                                                          run em').

                                                                                          :-)

                                                                                          Gerry D
                                                                                          http://kitbash.ourpage.org

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                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1182 From: Gerry D Date: 3/16/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: tyco truck conversion
                                                                                          Al, I'll try to keep you in mind when I start.

                                                                                          You wouldn't be wanting any of the original loop &
                                                                                          hoop couplers, would you?

                                                                                          Gerry D
                                                                                          http://kitbask.ourpage.org

                                                                                          > Tom ( or anyone)...
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > are you cutting off the tyco talgo trucks ( and
                                                                                          > using the original trucks,
                                                                                          > with replacement wheelsets), or are you swapping out
                                                                                          > the entire trucks ?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > reason being , is I also collect Tyco * ducks ,
                                                                                          > sorry, not true vintage*,
                                                                                          > and have quite a few old Tyco truck (some with,some
                                                                                          > without wheelsets),
                                                                                          > that have the talgo coupler pockets already cut off
                                                                                          > - got these over the
                                                                                          > years from various Tyco's that I changed back to
                                                                                          > original talgo operation.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > I'd be interested in swapping the cut frames for
                                                                                          > uncut ones ( someone might
                                                                                          > as well use them), or in purchasing the trucks that
                                                                                          > you;re swapping out (
                                                                                          > and the Tyco , or other horn-hook couplers as well
                                                                                          > ).
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > I know it sounds pretty 'anal -collector-ish', but
                                                                                          > they aren;t making new
                                                                                          > Tyco trucks, so I'd hate to see more of them cut up
                                                                                          > than need be.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > drop me a line off -list if interested in working
                                                                                          > something out
                                                                                          > (cash,trade,vintage brass,my forstborn child, etc,
                                                                                          > lol )
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > ~ AL
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >


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                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1183 From: Gerry D Date: 3/16/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: capacitor discharge
                                                                                          Read below...

                                                                                          --- takefive247 <takefive@...> wrote:

                                                                                          > Thanks Guys,
                                                                                          > So, if I understand this correctly, the resistor, in
                                                                                          > series with the
                                                                                          > capacitor and switch machine, is what prevents the
                                                                                          > machine from
                                                                                          > burning. What is the purpose of the diode in
                                                                                          > parallel with the switch
                                                                                          > machine?
                                                                                          > Perhaps I should explain. I am trying to control
                                                                                          > four switch
                                                                                          > machines, two crossing gates, a flashing signal and
                                                                                          > bell, and reverse
                                                                                          > the track polarity. All from the same optical
                                                                                          > sensing circuit board.
                                                                                          > It works great with a single engine until the lights
                                                                                          > go down or I add
                                                                                          > cars, and the sensors go haywire. I've only burned
                                                                                          > up two old Atlas
                                                                                          > switch machines.


                                                                                          Are you trying to power the switch machines
                                                                                          continously? It sounds like it! They need a pulse or
                                                                                          short duration power application, not what you may be
                                                                                          doing with a sense circuit!

                                                                                          Think it over or replace the switch machines with a
                                                                                          test bulb and see how long they are on. Should not be
                                                                                          more than 0.5 seconds.

                                                                                          Gerry


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                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1184 From: Glenn Date: 3/16/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Kadee's #4 in MDC (Roundhouse) coupler pockets
                                                                                          You might try the new couplers with the hair springs molded in--see Kadee's current ads.
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 5:10 AM
                                                                                          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Kadee's #4 in MDC (Roundhouse) coupler pockets

                                                                                          Tom,
                                                                                          I think the Kadee "20" series are very close to #5's and have some extra "bushings" in them for the cars with smaller pins or screws. They differ mainly in length and some are either over set or under set knuckles to avoid adding shims or filing frames...
                                                                                          I can't check my charts right now as I am recovering from a broken wrist and do not have enough strength in that hand to move the stuff blocking access to my work bench..
                                                                                          HTH
                                                                                          Dave S.

                                                                                          Tom wrote:
                                                                                          Imp Ster, my friend, Thank you for your tips, between you and the
                                                                                          other guys here I gave it another try tonight.  It took almost an
                                                                                          hour, but I got em! 

                                                                                          I would gladly use the #5's but the sheet bronze spring will not fit
                                                                                          into the coupler box.  These are OLD (emphasis) cars from late 40's
                                                                                          early 50's, everything is diecast except the handrails. The sides of
                                                                                          the cars are prepainted and lettered and I may be mistaken but are
                                                                                          also diecast,a very thin and fragile piece of metal to be sure. 
                                                                                          They belonged to my Dad, I remember drooling over them, many were
                                                                                          already built but there are several in kit form, when I was a kid. 
                                                                                          OK to look but don't touch!  The modeler has to paint the
                                                                                          underframe, roof, and ends as well as the brake gear,the cars are
                                                                                          assembled using small screws to hold the body together.  I haven't
                                                                                          weighed one, but I am certain they meet the NMRA standards..LOL. and
                                                                                          yes they do have the sprung trucks, although the wheels rusted a bit
                                                                                          when Dad stored them in his garage before handing them off to me. 
                                                                                          Weathering, who needs stinking weathering, its the real thing!

                                                                                          Wish I knew about the preassembled #4's... these are a pain.  One
                                                                                          other note about the #5's, the center hole is way too big for the
                                                                                          coupler pin in the diecast box, the slot in the #4 is a little
                                                                                          sloppy but not as bad as the #5. 

                                                                                          I also have several Varney plastic cars to convert with the same
                                                                                          situation, a very thin pin in the plastic box.  I will check the
                                                                                          Kadee website for the proper coupler but I have a sneaking suspicion
                                                                                          it is going to be the #4.

                                                                                          Thanks again  Tom Businger






                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Imp Ster" <iimpster@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Tom, i applaud your good intentions, but have you tried using the
                                                                                          > standard #5's instead? they will drop into the pocket and the 1-
                                                                                          piece
                                                                                          > sheet-bronze centering spring saves a lot of trouble.
                                                                                          > however if you are willing to go the extra mile, #4s do have a
                                                                                          nice
                                                                                          > centering action, if you can get the steel dowel inside the
                                                                                          smaller
                                                                                          > spring without altering the spring tension.
                                                                                          > (as you know, there are 2 springs included with #4 kits - the
                                                                                          knuckle
                                                                                          > closing spring which is slightly larger and stiffer, and the
                                                                                          > centering spring which is actualy quite fragile... in a pinch, the
                                                                                          > knuckle spring can be used as a centering spring, but you will
                                                                                          have a
                                                                                          > much stiffer centering action which can interfere with
                                                                                          the 'delayed'
                                                                                          > uncoupling action)
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > i use a common X-acto sharpie to grab and hold the spring, by
                                                                                          setting
                                                                                          > the blade edge into the spring coil.
                                                                                          > then carefuly slide the steel dowel into the spring with a NON-
                                                                                          > Magnetic tweezer.
                                                                                          > you can usually then set the spring-dowel combination into the
                                                                                          > coupler shank already in the box, which has been prepped
                                                                                          (burnished -
                                                                                          > de-burred etc).. Kadee recomends having the shank already in the
                                                                                          box,
                                                                                          > then dropping one end of the spring in the slot, then dragging the
                                                                                          > shank over the centering pin and setting in place.
                                                                                          > a very finicky proceedure, to be sure... which is why Kadee is now
                                                                                          > offering sets of #4's pre-assembled.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > btw, MDC is usualy ripe for #5 installation.
                                                                                          > #4 seems rather troublesome...?
                                                                                          > maybe you have an earlier pocket version??
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > hope my ramblings help... for more detail, see Kadee's MDC
                                                                                          conversion
                                                                                          > page here
                                                                                          > http://www.kadee.com/conv/hocc26.htm
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > cheers
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > ...
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Tom" <thomasbusinger@> wrote:
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > on converting to Kadee's #4,but having one heck of a time with the
                                                                                          > springs, they want to go everywhere but in the box. 
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Tom Businger, Cleveland Ohio
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          >





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                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1185 From: Glenn Date: 3/16/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: capacitor discharge
                                                                                          I think I'd drive all from a single motor-drive machine with linkages.
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 6:50 AM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: capacitor discharge

                                                                                          Thanks Guys,
                                                                                          So, if I understand this correctly, the resistor, in series with the
                                                                                          capacitor and switch machine, is what prevents the machine from
                                                                                          burning. What is the purpose of the diode in parallel with the switch
                                                                                          machine?
                                                                                          Perhaps I should explain. I am trying to control four switch
                                                                                          machines, two crossing gates, a flashing signal and bell, and reverse
                                                                                          the track polarity. All from the same optical sensing circuit board.
                                                                                          It works great with a single engine until the lights go down or I add
                                                                                          cars, and the sensors go haywire. I've only burned up two old Atlas
                                                                                          switch machines.
                                                                                          I know this subject is a little off topic for this group and you old
                                                                                          veterans at this are out there shaking your heads, but you are a big
                                                                                          help and the Town Line reverse loop will work.
                                                                                          Thanks
                                                                                          Bill

                                                                                          PS. Sorry about the double post before. Computers are another one of
                                                                                          my shortcommings.


                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > if the button is held down or gets stuck, the capacitor cannot
                                                                                          recharge, and only a minor current can flow thru the coils.
                                                                                          >   ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          >   From: takefive247
                                                                                          >   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          >   Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 6:50 PM
                                                                                          >   Subject: [vintageHO] Re: capacitor discharge
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >   Thanks Jerry,
                                                                                          >   Not sure if this is the right group to pursue this but if it's OK I
                                                                                          >   would appreciate the help. Your explanations was helpful but I don't
                                                                                          >   think it (the capacitor)  will solve my problem completely. Would you
                                                                                          >   know how it is connected to prevent burnout's if the input or buttons
                                                                                          >   gets stuck?
                                                                                          >   Bill
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >   --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Garteiser" <jerryg@> wrote:
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   > I will try.   Basically, the capacitor stores energy, to be released
                                                                                          >   when
                                                                                          >   > called upon (as in closing a circuit/pushing a button).   Think of
                                                                                          >   it this
                                                                                          >   > way- think of a garden hose and bucket.  The garden hose is your
                                                                                          >   power pack.
                                                                                          >   > The bucket is your capacitor.  You use the garden hose to fill the
                                                                                          >   bucket at
                                                                                          >   > a somewhat slow rate until it is full.  Then when you need the
                                                                                          bucket of
                                                                                          >   > water (large volume of water fast), you turn it over.  So, the power
                                                                                          >   pack
                                                                                          >   > charges the capacitor, the capacitor stores the charge of energy,
                                                                                          >   and when
                                                                                          >   > you need it to throw the switch machine you press the button
                                                                                          ("dump the
                                                                                          >   > water").  You need it when you have a small (low amperage) power
                                                                                          >   supply and
                                                                                          >   > a high current (power requirement) switch machine.  So, if you have
                                                                                          >   a 10 amp
                                                                                          >   > capacity power supply, a capacitor discharge unit probably is not
                                                                                          >   needed.
                                                                                          >   > But if you are trying to throw a switch with a 1 amp power pack, and
                                                                                          >   > everything on the track stops (or slows down noticeably), then you
                                                                                          >   need the
                                                                                          >   > capacitor unit to store the energy to throw the switch.
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   > 
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   > It is irrelevant whether you are trying to use this in a
                                                                                          reversing loop
                                                                                          >   > situation, or a normal siding or yard type switch machine.  The
                                                                                          >   machine is
                                                                                          >   > looking for that big surge of power to "heave it over".       By the
                                                                                          >   way,
                                                                                          >   > there is a way to avoid this, and that is to use a low current
                                                                                          >   machine, such
                                                                                          >   > as a Tortoise unit.  But, if you are trying to use a 1 amp pack and
                                                                                          >   have 25
                                                                                          >   > low current switch machines, you are going to tax the power pack and
                                                                                          >   end up
                                                                                          >   > burning it up instead.
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   > 
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   > Hope this helps.  Come back if this generates more questions-I'll be
                                                                                          >   glad to
                                                                                          >   > try and answer them.   Regards,  JerryG.
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   > 
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   >   _____ 
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com]
                                                                                          >   On Behalf
                                                                                          >   > Of takefive247
                                                                                          >   > Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 6:35 PM
                                                                                          >   > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          >   > Subject: [vintageHO] capacitor discharge
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   > 
                                                                                          >   >
                                                                                          >   > Hello,
                                                                                          >   > Would someone give me a brief, plain english explanation, or tell me
                                                                                          >   > where to go, of how and why a capacitor discharge power supply for a
                                                                                          >   > turnout switch works? And why and when do you need it? I am
                                                                                          trying to
                                                                                          >   > hook up a reversing section and looking for a way to prevent burned
                                                                                          >   > out switch machines.
                                                                                          >   > Bill
                                                                                          >   >
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                                                                                          >   >

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                                                                                          >   >

                                                                                          rain&w3=G+scale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&c=5&s=105&.
                                                                                          >   > sig=8KOGo_UHbh1z3_tfejZc3g>  scale
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                                                                                          del+train&w3=G+scale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&c=5&s=
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                                                                                          >   >

                                                                                          cale+model+train&w3=G+scale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains
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                                                                                          >   >

                                                                                          model+train&w3=G+scale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&c=5&
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                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1186 From: Glenn Date: 3/16/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: tyco truck conversion
                                                                                          I can use the loop & hook Mantua couplers--am also looking for either a Mantua gauge or a good dimensioned drawing of one--Glenn Joesten glenn476@...
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          From: Gerry D
                                                                                          Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 4:16 PM
                                                                                          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] tyco truck conversion



                                                                                          Al, I'll try to keep you in mind when I start.

                                                                                          You wouldn't be wanting any of the original loop &
                                                                                          hoop couplers, would you?

                                                                                          Gerry D
                                                                                          http://kitbask.ourpage.org

                                                                                          >  Tom ( or anyone)...
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >  are you cutting off the tyco talgo trucks ( and
                                                                                          > using the original trucks,
                                                                                          > with replacement wheelsets), or are you swapping out
                                                                                          > the entire trucks ?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >  reason being , is I also collect Tyco * ducks ,
                                                                                          > sorry, not true vintage*,
                                                                                          > and have  quite a few old Tyco truck (some with,some
                                                                                          > without wheelsets),
                                                                                          > that have the talgo coupler pockets already cut off
                                                                                          > - got these over the
                                                                                          > years from various Tyco's that I changed back to
                                                                                          > original talgo operation.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >  I'd be interested in swapping the cut frames for
                                                                                          > uncut ones ( someone might
                                                                                          > as well use them), or in purchasing the trucks that
                                                                                          > you;re swapping out (
                                                                                          > and the Tyco , or other horn-hook couplers as well
                                                                                          > ).
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >  I know it sounds pretty 'anal -collector-ish', but
                                                                                          > they aren;t making new
                                                                                          > Tyco trucks, so I'd hate to see more of them cut up
                                                                                          > than need be.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >  drop me a line off -list if interested in working
                                                                                          > something out
                                                                                          > (cash,trade,vintage brass,my forstborn child, etc,
                                                                                          > lol  )
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >  ~ AL
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >


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                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1187 From: takefive247 Date: 3/16/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: capacitor discharge
                                                                                          Gerry,
                                                                                          That's how I burned up the first machine. I called Circuitron about
                                                                                          they're CD unit and he wasn't sure it would drive two machines so I
                                                                                          would need two units and more sensor units to switch the loops. I
                                                                                          thought I would try relays. I understand them a little better then
                                                                                          electronics. I want to understand what's happening before I spend that
                                                                                          much on it.
                                                                                          Thanks
                                                                                          Bill

                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Gerry D <gerard_sr@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Read below...
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > --- takefive247 <takefive@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > > Thanks Guys,
                                                                                          > > So, if I understand this correctly, the resistor, in
                                                                                          > > series with the
                                                                                          > > capacitor and switch machine, is what prevents the
                                                                                          > > machine from
                                                                                          > > burning. What is the purpose of the diode in
                                                                                          > > parallel with the switch
                                                                                          > > machine?
                                                                                          > > Perhaps I should explain. I am trying to control
                                                                                          > > four switch
                                                                                          > > machines, two crossing gates, a flashing signal and
                                                                                          > > bell, and reverse
                                                                                          > > the track polarity. All from the same optical
                                                                                          > > sensing circuit board.
                                                                                          > > It works great with a single engine until the lights
                                                                                          > > go down or I add
                                                                                          > > cars, and the sensors go haywire. I've only burned
                                                                                          > > up two old Atlas
                                                                                          > > switch machines.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Are you trying to power the switch machines
                                                                                          > continously? It sounds like it! They need a pulse or
                                                                                          > short duration power application, not what you may be
                                                                                          > doing with a sense circuit!
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Think it over or replace the switch machines with a
                                                                                          > test bulb and see how long they are on. Should not be
                                                                                          > more than 0.5 seconds.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Gerry
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > __________________________________________________
                                                                                          > Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                          > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                                                          > http://mail.yahoo.com
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                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1188 From: takefive247 Date: 3/16/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: tyco truck conversion
                                                                                          From the old new guy,
                                                                                          Just curious but why would you cut off the trucks to put the
                                                                                          couplers on the body? Is it for realism or does it work better?
                                                                                          Bill

                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > I can use the loop & hook Mantua couplers--am also looking for
                                                                                          either a Mantua gauge or a good dimensioned drawing of one--Glenn
                                                                                          Joesten glenn476@...
                                                                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          > From: Gerry D
                                                                                          > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 4:16 PM
                                                                                          > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] tyco truck conversion
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Al, I'll try to keep you in mind when I start.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > You wouldn't be wanting any of the original loop &
                                                                                          > hoop couplers, would you?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Gerry D
                                                                                          > http://kitbask.ourpage.org
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > > Tom ( or anyone)...
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > are you cutting off the tyco talgo trucks ( and
                                                                                          > > using the original trucks,
                                                                                          > > with replacement wheelsets), or are you swapping out
                                                                                          > > the entire trucks ?
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > reason being , is I also collect Tyco * ducks ,
                                                                                          > > sorry, not true vintage*,
                                                                                          > > and have quite a few old Tyco truck (some with,some
                                                                                          > > without wheelsets),
                                                                                          > > that have the talgo coupler pockets already cut off
                                                                                          > > - got these over the
                                                                                          > > years from various Tyco's that I changed back to
                                                                                          > > original talgo operation.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > I'd be interested in swapping the cut frames for
                                                                                          > > uncut ones ( someone might
                                                                                          > > as well use them), or in purchasing the trucks that
                                                                                          > > you;re swapping out (
                                                                                          > > and the Tyco , or other horn-hook couplers as well
                                                                                          > > ).
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > I know it sounds pretty 'anal -collector-ish', but
                                                                                          > > they aren;t making new
                                                                                          > > Tyco trucks, so I'd hate to see more of them cut up
                                                                                          > > than need be.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > drop me a line off -list if interested in working
                                                                                          > > something out
                                                                                          > > (cash,trade,vintage brass,my forstborn child, etc,
                                                                                          > > lol )
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > ~ AL
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
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                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1189 From: Gerry D Date: 3/16/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: tyco truck conversion
                                                                                          I'll contact you by email.

                                                                                          --- Glenn <glenn476@...> wrote:

                                                                                          > I can use the loop & hook Mantua couplers--am also
                                                                                          > looking for either a Mantua gauge or a good
                                                                                          > dimensioned drawing of one--Glenn Joesten
                                                                                          > glenn476@...
                                                                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          > From: Gerry D
                                                                                          > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 4:16 PM
                                                                                          > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] tyco truck conversion
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Al, I'll try to keep you in mind when I start.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > You wouldn't be wanting any of the original loop &
                                                                                          > hoop couplers, would you?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Gerry D
                                                                                          > http://kitbask.ourpage.org
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > > Tom ( or anyone)...
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > are you cutting off the tyco talgo trucks ( and
                                                                                          > > using the original trucks,
                                                                                          > > with replacement wheelsets), or are you swapping
                                                                                          > out
                                                                                          > > the entire trucks ?
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > reason being , is I also collect Tyco * ducks ,
                                                                                          > > sorry, not true vintage*,
                                                                                          > > and have quite a few old Tyco truck (some
                                                                                          > with,some
                                                                                          > > without wheelsets),
                                                                                          > > that have the talgo coupler pockets already cut
                                                                                          > off
                                                                                          > > - got these over the
                                                                                          > > years from various Tyco's that I changed back to
                                                                                          > > original talgo operation.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > I'd be interested in swapping the cut frames
                                                                                          > for
                                                                                          > > uncut ones ( someone might
                                                                                          > > as well use them), or in purchasing the trucks
                                                                                          > that
                                                                                          > > you;re swapping out (
                                                                                          > > and the Tyco , or other horn-hook couplers as
                                                                                          > well
                                                                                          > > ).
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > I know it sounds pretty 'anal -collector-ish',
                                                                                          > but
                                                                                          > > they aren;t making new
                                                                                          > > Tyco trucks, so I'd hate to see more of them cut
                                                                                          > up
                                                                                          > > than need be.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > drop me a line off -list if interested in
                                                                                          > working
                                                                                          > > something out
                                                                                          > > (cash,trade,vintage brass,my forstborn child,
                                                                                          > etc,
                                                                                          > > lol )
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > ~ AL
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
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                                                                                          > Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                          > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
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                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1190 From: Gerry D Date: 3/16/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: capacitor discharge
                                                                                          AH HA!!!
                                                                                          Now we're getting somewhere!
                                                                                          I may have an answer... give me a bit of time, gotta
                                                                                          do chores, and I'll get back to you.
                                                                                          Gerry

                                                                                          --- takefive247 <takefive@...> wrote:

                                                                                          > Gerry,
                                                                                          > That's how I burned up the first machine. I called
                                                                                          > Circuitron about
                                                                                          > they're CD unit and he wasn't sure it would drive
                                                                                          > two machines so I
                                                                                          > would need two units and more sensor units to switch
                                                                                          > the loops. I
                                                                                          > thought I would try relays. I understand them a
                                                                                          > little better then
                                                                                          > electronics. I want to understand what's happening
                                                                                          > before I spend that
                                                                                          > much on it.
                                                                                          > Thanks
                                                                                          > Bill
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Gerry D
                                                                                          > <gerard_sr@...> wrote:
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > Read below...
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > --- takefive247 <takefive@...> wrote:
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > > Thanks Guys,
                                                                                          > > > So, if I understand this correctly, the
                                                                                          > resistor, in
                                                                                          > > > series with the
                                                                                          > > > capacitor and switch machine, is what prevents
                                                                                          > the
                                                                                          > > > machine from
                                                                                          > > > burning. What is the purpose of the diode in
                                                                                          > > > parallel with the switch
                                                                                          > > > machine?
                                                                                          > > > Perhaps I should explain. I am trying to
                                                                                          > control
                                                                                          > > > four switch
                                                                                          > > > machines, two crossing gates, a flashing signal
                                                                                          > and
                                                                                          > > > bell, and reverse
                                                                                          > > > the track polarity. All from the same optical
                                                                                          > > > sensing circuit board.
                                                                                          > > > It works great with a single engine until the
                                                                                          > lights
                                                                                          > > > go down or I add
                                                                                          > > > cars, and the sensors go haywire. I've only
                                                                                          > burned
                                                                                          > > > up two old Atlas
                                                                                          > > > switch machines.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > Are you trying to power the switch machines
                                                                                          > > continously? It sounds like it! They need a pulse
                                                                                          > or
                                                                                          > > short duration power application, not what you may
                                                                                          > be
                                                                                          > > doing with a sense circuit!
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > Think it over or replace the switch machines with
                                                                                          > a
                                                                                          > > test bulb and see how long they are on. Should not
                                                                                          > be
                                                                                          > > more than 0.5 seconds.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > Gerry
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > __________________________________________________
                                                                                          > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                          > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
                                                                                          > protection around
                                                                                          > > http://mail.yahoo.com
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >


                                                                                          __________________________________________________
                                                                                          Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                          Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1191 From: Gerry D Date: 3/16/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: tyco truck conversion
                                                                                          Bill,
                                                                                          I'll get some photos later tonight to explain it.
                                                                                          Gerry

                                                                                          --- takefive247 <takefive@...> wrote:

                                                                                          > From the old new guy,
                                                                                          > Just curious but why would you cut off the trucks
                                                                                          > to put the
                                                                                          > couplers on the body? Is it for realism or does it
                                                                                          > work better?
                                                                                          > Bill
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn"
                                                                                          > <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > I can use the loop & hook Mantua couplers--am also
                                                                                          > looking for
                                                                                          > either a Mantua gauge or a good dimensioned drawing
                                                                                          > of one--Glenn
                                                                                          > Joesten glenn476@...
                                                                                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          > > From: Gerry D
                                                                                          > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > > Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 4:16 PM
                                                                                          > > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] tyco truck conversion
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > Al, I'll try to keep you in mind when I start.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > You wouldn't be wanting any of the original loop
                                                                                          > &
                                                                                          > > hoop couplers, would you?
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > Gerry D
                                                                                          > > http://kitbask.ourpage.org
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > > Tom ( or anyone)...
                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                          > > > are you cutting off the tyco talgo trucks (
                                                                                          > and
                                                                                          > > > using the original trucks,
                                                                                          > > > with replacement wheelsets), or are you
                                                                                          > swapping out
                                                                                          > > > the entire trucks ?
                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                          > > > reason being , is I also collect Tyco * ducks
                                                                                          > ,
                                                                                          > > > sorry, not true vintage*,
                                                                                          > > > and have quite a few old Tyco truck (some
                                                                                          > with,some
                                                                                          > > > without wheelsets),
                                                                                          > > > that have the talgo coupler pockets already
                                                                                          > cut off
                                                                                          > > > - got these over the
                                                                                          > > > years from various Tyco's that I changed back
                                                                                          > to
                                                                                          > > > original talgo operation.
                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                          > > > I'd be interested in swapping the cut frames
                                                                                          > for
                                                                                          > > > uncut ones ( someone might
                                                                                          > > > as well use them), or in purchasing the trucks
                                                                                          > that
                                                                                          > > > you;re swapping out (
                                                                                          > > > and the Tyco , or other horn-hook couplers as
                                                                                          > well
                                                                                          > > > ).
                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                          > > > I know it sounds pretty 'anal
                                                                                          > -collector-ish', but
                                                                                          > > > they aren;t making new
                                                                                          > > > Tyco trucks, so I'd hate to see more of them
                                                                                          > cut up
                                                                                          > > > than need be.
                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                          > > > drop me a line off -list if interested in
                                                                                          > working
                                                                                          > > > something out
                                                                                          > > > (cash,trade,vintage brass,my forstborn child,
                                                                                          > etc,
                                                                                          > > > lol )
                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                          > > > ~ AL
                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > __________________________________________________
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                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1192 From: Dave Slater Date: 3/16/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: tyco truck conversion
                                                                                          Speaking of coupler conversions, I have an old TriAng track cleaner I
                                                                                          would like to convert to better trucks and Kadees so I can use it on my
                                                                                          current layout. The existing trucks are riveted on but the rivets just
                                                                                          spin when I try to drill them out. The old couplers are truck mounted as
                                                                                          well compounding the problem.
                                                                                          Dave S.
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1193 From: Garry Spear Date: 3/16/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: tyco truck conversion
                                                                                          I have done conversions on a few cars with riveted trucks.

                                                                                          I remove the wheelsets, cutting the axles, if needed. The using a
                                                                                          grinding tool (Dremel or other) I grind the truck bolster and rivet
                                                                                          out. Be prepared to fill, drill, and tap to mount new couplers and
                                                                                          trucks.

                                                                                          Garry Spear

                                                                                          On 3/16/06, Dave Slater <daslater@...> wrote:
                                                                                          > Speaking of coupler conversions, I have an old TriAng track cleaner I
                                                                                          > would like to convert to better trucks and Kadees so I can use it on my
                                                                                          > current layout. The existing trucks are riveted on but the rivets just
                                                                                          > spin when I try to drill them out. The old couplers are truck mounted as
                                                                                          > well compounding the problem.
                                                                                          > Dave S.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1194 From: Gerry D Date: 3/16/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: tyco truck conversion
                                                                                          Bill,
                                                                                          here's a link with some pictures:
                                                                                          http://ourpage.com/tyco/coupler.html

                                                                                          (OK experts, figure out how I took those! heh heh.)

                                                                                          The reason is that Kadee couplers don't take kindly to
                                                                                          the Tyco Talgo trucks, (plastic type). There ain't no
                                                                                          way to do it!
                                                                                          Metal trucks also, They just ain't at the right core
                                                                                          height.
                                                                                          You could mount trucks with coupler boxes on them like
                                                                                          Kadee trucks, but the Tyco frames have a, extension
                                                                                          around the screw hole that prevents the washer-head
                                                                                          screw from bottoming out on the truck. If it did, the
                                                                                          truck would not rotate.
                                                                                          So you'd have to grind off the extension around the
                                                                                          hole and use a sholdered screw to mount the trucks.
                                                                                          Besides, Kadee trucks cost a bit more per pair than a
                                                                                          pair of couplers.

                                                                                          Cordially,
                                                                                          Gerry
                                                                                          http://kitbash.ourpage.org

                                                                                          --- takefive247 <takefive@...> wrote:

                                                                                          > From the old new guy,
                                                                                          > Just curious but why would you cut off the trucks
                                                                                          > to put the
                                                                                          > couplers on the body? Is it for realism or does it
                                                                                          > work better?
                                                                                          > Bill
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn"
                                                                                          > <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > I can use the loop & hook Mantua couplers--am also
                                                                                          > looking for
                                                                                          > either a Mantua gauge or a good dimensioned drawing
                                                                                          > of one--Glenn
                                                                                          > Joesten glenn476@...
                                                                                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          > > From: Gerry D
                                                                                          > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > > Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 4:16 PM
                                                                                          > > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] tyco truck conversion
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > Al, I'll try to keep you in mind when I start.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > You wouldn't be wanting any of the original loop
                                                                                          > &
                                                                                          > > hoop couplers, would you?
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > Gerry D
                                                                                          > > http://kitbask.ourpage.org
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > > Tom ( or anyone)...
                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                          > > > are you cutting off the tyco talgo trucks (
                                                                                          > and
                                                                                          > > > using the original trucks,
                                                                                          > > > with replacement wheelsets), or are you
                                                                                          > swapping out
                                                                                          > > > the entire trucks ?
                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                          > > > reason being , is I also collect Tyco * ducks
                                                                                          > ,
                                                                                          > > > sorry, not true vintage*,
                                                                                          > > > and have quite a few old Tyco truck (some
                                                                                          > with,some
                                                                                          > > > without wheelsets),
                                                                                          > > > that have the talgo coupler pockets already
                                                                                          > cut off
                                                                                          > > > - got these over the
                                                                                          > > > years from various Tyco's that I changed back
                                                                                          > to
                                                                                          > > > original talgo operation.
                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                          > > > I'd be interested in swapping the cut frames
                                                                                          > for
                                                                                          > > > uncut ones ( someone might
                                                                                          > > > as well use them), or in purchasing the trucks
                                                                                          > that
                                                                                          > > > you;re swapping out (
                                                                                          > > > and the Tyco , or other horn-hook couplers as
                                                                                          > well
                                                                                          > > > ).
                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                          > > > I know it sounds pretty 'anal
                                                                                          > -collector-ish', but
                                                                                          > > > they aren;t making new
                                                                                          > > > Tyco trucks, so I'd hate to see more of them
                                                                                          > cut up
                                                                                          > > > than need be.
                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                          > > > drop me a line off -list if interested in
                                                                                          > working
                                                                                          > > > something out
                                                                                          > > > (cash,trade,vintage brass,my forstborn child,
                                                                                          > etc,
                                                                                          > > > lol )
                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                          > > > ~ AL
                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > __________________________________________________
                                                                                          > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                          > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
                                                                                          > protection around
                                                                                          > > http://mail.yahoo.com
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > SPONSORED LINKS Ho scale G scale model train G
                                                                                          > scale train
                                                                                          > > Ho scale model train Ho scale trains
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > a.. Visit your group "vintageHO" on the web.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an
                                                                                          > email to:
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                                                                                          > Service.
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                                                                                          >
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                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1195 From: Glenn Date: 3/16/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: capacitor discharge
                                                                                          one CD unit should throw at least four Atlas machines--and thNot sure what all you're trying to run with it--but perhaps using another type of machine, with LED signals, and contacts of the machines would help--en some. 
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 6:39 PM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: capacitor discharge

                                                                                          Gerry,
                                                                                          That's how I burned up the first machine. I called Circuitron about
                                                                                          they're CD unit and he wasn't sure it would drive two machines so I
                                                                                          would need two units and more sensor units to switch the loops. I
                                                                                          thought I would try relays. I understand them a little better then
                                                                                          electronics. I want to understand what's happening before I spend that
                                                                                          much on it.
                                                                                          Thanks
                                                                                          Bill

                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Gerry D <gerard_sr@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Read below...
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > --- takefive247 <takefive@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > > Thanks Guys,
                                                                                          > > So, if I understand this correctly, the resistor, in
                                                                                          > > series with the
                                                                                          > > capacitor and switch machine, is what prevents the
                                                                                          > > machine from
                                                                                          > > burning. What is the purpose of the diode in
                                                                                          > > parallel with the switch
                                                                                          > > machine?
                                                                                          > >  Perhaps I should explain. I am trying to control
                                                                                          > > four switch
                                                                                          > > machines, two crossing gates, a flashing signal and
                                                                                          > > bell, and reverse
                                                                                          > > the track polarity. All from the same optical
                                                                                          > > sensing circuit board.
                                                                                          > > It works great with a single engine until the lights
                                                                                          > > go down or I add
                                                                                          > > cars, and the sensors go haywire. I've only burned
                                                                                          > > up two old Atlas
                                                                                          > > switch machines.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Are you trying to power the switch machines
                                                                                          > continously? It sounds like it! They need a pulse or
                                                                                          > short duration power application, not what you may be
                                                                                          > doing with a sense circuit!
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Think it over or replace the switch machines with a
                                                                                          > test bulb and see how long they are on. Should not be
                                                                                          > more than 0.5 seconds.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Gerry
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > __________________________________________________
                                                                                          > Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                          > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1196 From: Gerry D Date: 3/16/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: capacitor discharge
                                                                                          Bill,
                                                                                          The sensors put out a DC level when energized.
                                                                                          Switch machines take kindly to both DC and AC, but
                                                                                          need a pulse, not a level.

                                                                                          If you used your sensor to activate the switch
                                                                                          machines, they would be constantly on.
                                                                                          That's the symptom of the lights dimming etc. You are
                                                                                          drawing too much power to do all that.

                                                                                          So you understand relays. You need a relay that will
                                                                                          energize, close the contacts, for about .25 seconds
                                                                                          and then release.

                                                                                          the Circuitron will send a signal out to the relay, a
                                                                                          DC level and the relay will close and stay closed
                                                                                          drawing power, overheating the switch machine etc.

                                                                                          What I think you did was to connect the Circuitron
                                                                                          directly to the switch machine so when the level was
                                                                                          there the switch machine motor stayed on.

                                                                                          Smoke?

                                                                                          One way I can see doing it right now is with a bit of
                                                                                          electronics. You need a circuit that when it gets the
                                                                                          DC level from the Circuitron it will say OK, It'll
                                                                                          spit out a pulse on another wire to the switch machine
                                                                                          for a time period of .25 seconds and then shut off the
                                                                                          power to the switch machine.

                                                                                          OR!!!

                                                                                          You need two Capacitors, two resistors and one double
                                                                                          pole double throw relay, (that operates on the voltage
                                                                                          level the Circuitron puts out!).

                                                                                          The relays must draw very little power so they don't
                                                                                          load down the Circuitron like the switch machine
                                                                                          motors did.

                                                                                          Think this over, O Relay Master.

                                                                                          one side of the relay contacts are connected to a
                                                                                          resistor to DC. The "wiper" of the relay is connected
                                                                                          to the capacitor. The other side goes to the switch
                                                                                          machine. The other capacitor lead and the common of
                                                                                          the switch machine return to the power supply.

                                                                                          The opposite is done to the other three terminals, but
                                                                                          the second capacitor is connected to the other
                                                                                          "wiper".

                                                                                          How it works......

                                                                                          The Circuitron is not putting out any voltage or
                                                                                          signal. The relay is not energized. One set of
                                                                                          contacts is charging a capacitor through the resistor.
                                                                                          The other set is connecting a discharged second
                                                                                          capacitor to one coil of the switch machine.

                                                                                          The Circuitrion sends out a signal.

                                                                                          The relay is energized.

                                                                                          The capacitor that was charging now is connected to
                                                                                          the switch machine and BANG, moved the switch. At the
                                                                                          same time the capacitor for the other coil is removed
                                                                                          from the other coil on the switch machine and starts
                                                                                          charging.

                                                                                          The Circuitron decides to stop the DC level it's
                                                                                          putting out.

                                                                                          The relay DE-energizes and BAM the capacitor that
                                                                                          wasn't charged in the first place but was charged
                                                                                          while the relay was energized now sends its power to
                                                                                          its coil and the switch moves. Meantime the other
                                                                                          capacitor starts charging again.

                                                                                          Got the picture or should I diagram it out for you?

                                                                                          Comments?

                                                                                          Cordially,
                                                                                          Gerry D
                                                                                          Http://kitbash.ourpage.org

                                                                                          PS: you "could" do it with ONE resistor and two
                                                                                          capacitors and one DPDT relay.
                                                                                          _______________________________________________________

                                                                                          --- Gerry D <gerard_sr@...> wrote:

                                                                                          > AH HA!!!
                                                                                          > Now we're getting somewhere!
                                                                                          > I may have an answer... give me a bit of time, gotta
                                                                                          > do chores, and I'll get back to you.
                                                                                          > Gerry
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > --- takefive247 <takefive@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > > Gerry,
                                                                                          > > That's how I burned up the first machine. I called
                                                                                          > > Circuitron about
                                                                                          > > they're CD unit and he wasn't sure it would drive
                                                                                          > > two machines so I
                                                                                          > > would need two units and more sensor units to
                                                                                          > switch
                                                                                          > > the loops. I
                                                                                          > > thought I would try relays. I understand them a
                                                                                          > > little better then
                                                                                          > > electronics. I want to understand what's happening
                                                                                          > > before I spend that
                                                                                          > > much on it.
                                                                                          > > Thanks
                                                                                          > > Bill
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Gerry D
                                                                                          > > <gerard_sr@...> wrote:
                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                          > > > Read below...
                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                          > > > --- takefive247 <takefive@...> wrote:
                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                          > > > > Thanks Guys,
                                                                                          > > > > So, if I understand this correctly, the
                                                                                          > > resistor, in
                                                                                          > > > > series with the
                                                                                          > > > > capacitor and switch machine, is what prevents
                                                                                          > > the
                                                                                          > > > > machine from
                                                                                          > > > > burning. What is the purpose of the diode in
                                                                                          > > > > parallel with the switch
                                                                                          > > > > machine?
                                                                                          > > > > Perhaps I should explain. I am trying to
                                                                                          > > control
                                                                                          > > > > four switch
                                                                                          > > > > machines, two crossing gates, a flashing
                                                                                          > signal
                                                                                          > > and
                                                                                          > > > > bell, and reverse
                                                                                          > > > > the track polarity. All from the same optical
                                                                                          > > > > sensing circuit board.
                                                                                          > > > > It works great with a single engine until the
                                                                                          > > lights
                                                                                          > > > > go down or I add
                                                                                          > > > > cars, and the sensors go haywire. I've only
                                                                                          > > burned
                                                                                          > > > > up two old Atlas
                                                                                          > > > > switch machines.
                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                          > > > Are you trying to power the switch machines
                                                                                          > > > continously? It sounds like it! They need a
                                                                                          > pulse
                                                                                          > > or
                                                                                          > > > short duration power application, not what you
                                                                                          > may
                                                                                          > > be
                                                                                          > > > doing with a sense circuit!
                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                          > > > Think it over or replace the switch machines
                                                                                          > with
                                                                                          > > a
                                                                                          > > > test bulb and see how long they are on. Should
                                                                                          > not
                                                                                          > > be
                                                                                          > > > more than 0.5 seconds.
                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                          > > > Gerry
                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                          > __________________________________________________
                                                                                          > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                          > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
                                                                                          > > protection around
                                                                                          > > > http://mail.yahoo.com
                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > __________________________________________________
                                                                                          > Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                          > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
                                                                                          > protection around
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                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1197 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/16/2006
                                                                                          Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
                                                                                          Hello,

                                                                                          This email message is a notification to let you know that
                                                                                          a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vintageHO
                                                                                          group.

                                                                                          File : /circuit4bill.jpg
                                                                                          Uploaded by : gerard_sr <gerard_sr@...>
                                                                                          Description : Circuit sketch for Bill's question.

                                                                                          You can access this file at the URL:
                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/circuit4bill.jpg

                                                                                          To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
                                                                                          http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

                                                                                          Regards,

                                                                                          gerard_sr <gerard_sr@...>
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1198 From: Gerry Date: 3/16/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Circuitron NOT.
                                                                                          Bill, I'm sorry, a circuitron don't seem to do what you want it to do.
                                                                                          It is an optical sensor. It seems will only work if you use it to
                                                                                          operate a grade crossing.

                                                                                          The way it "will" work is if you position the sensors to activate just
                                                                                          before the engine is getting to the switch on it's way out of the
                                                                                          loop. If the device has a delay, it "could" hold the relay, and the
                                                                                          circuit I drew, untill the last car clears the switch.

                                                                                          I need to know more about Circuitron. There is a web domain regestered
                                                                                          to : 102135.10@... and I don't know if that's the proper site.

                                                                                          Gerry D.
                                                                                          http://kitbash.ourpage.com
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1199 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/16/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: tyco truck conversion
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          From: takefive247 <takefive@...>
                                                                                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                          Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 8:58 PM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: tyco truck conversion


                                                                                          > From the old new guy,
                                                                                          > Just curious but why would you cut off the trucks to put the
                                                                                          > couplers on the body? Is it for realism or does it work better?
                                                                                          > Bill

                                                                                          BOTH!

                                                                                          When using the old "horny hook" couplers, trying to back a train up with
                                                                                          truck mounted couplers invariably put sideways stress on the trucks causing
                                                                                          them to derail constantly. With Kadees it's slightly less of a problem, but
                                                                                          still not as reliable as body mounted couplers.

                                                                                          Don

                                                                                          don.dellmann@...
                                                                                          http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                          moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1200 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/17/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Goodbye
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          From: Chuck Svihlik <c_t_j_dad@...>
                                                                                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                          Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 2:18 PM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Goodbye


                                                                                          > I would like to wish everyone in the group good health and good
                                                                                          > modeling. I will be thinking of you. So I say goodbye, and have fun.
                                                                                          > Gramps

                                                                                          Sorry to see you go. Was it something we said?

                                                                                          Don

                                                                                          don.dellmann@...
                                                                                          http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                          moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          co-moderator: SCENERY@...
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                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1201 From: Dave Slater Date: 3/17/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: tyco truck conversion
                                                                                          Garry,
                                                                                          Thanks for the idea, sounds like more work than it's worth right now as I am one handed these days thanks to a broken wrist.
                                                                                          Dave S.

                                                                                          Garry Spear wrote:
                                                                                          I have done conversions on a few cars with riveted trucks.

                                                                                          I remove the wheelsets, cutting the axles, if needed.  The using a
                                                                                          grinding tool (Dremel or other) I grind the truck bolster and rivet
                                                                                          out.  Be prepared to  fill, drill, and tap to mount new couplers and
                                                                                          trucks.

                                                                                          Garry Spear

                                                                                          On 3/16/06, Dave Slater <daslater@...> wrote:
                                                                                          > Speaking of coupler conversions, I have an old TriAng track cleaner I
                                                                                          > would like to convert to better trucks and Kadees so I can use it on my
                                                                                          > current layout. The existing trucks are riveted on but the rivets just
                                                                                          > spin when I try to drill them out. The old couplers are truck mounted as
                                                                                          > well compounding the problem.
                                                                                          > Dave S.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >

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                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1202 From: takefive247 Date: 3/17/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: capacitor discharge
                                                                                          Thanks,
                                                                                          We are on the same page. The Circuitron capacitors will work but I
                                                                                          need two, at $50 apiece. Or one with a relay to switch it to the other
                                                                                          direction of travel. I'm mixing regulated 14v DC, for the sensors.
                                                                                          Track DC to switch track polarity. And power supply AC for the
                                                                                          accessories, plus there output current is so small, I need a relay anyway.
                                                                                          I did it with a couple of $5, Radio Shack relays and an Atlas relay
                                                                                          to keep the same action from happening twice until the train is coming
                                                                                          from the other direction. Only problem was I was also mixing apples
                                                                                          and oranges with the switch machines. Atlas machines work, but at the
                                                                                          other side of the room is a Peco.(is that spelled right) Works one
                                                                                          direction but not the other. Relay action is to quick. That's when I
                                                                                          came up with my first question on how a capacitor works.
                                                                                          Then came the problem with the room lighting change when the sun
                                                                                          went down. This is a shelf layout in my home office. Well lit until a
                                                                                          cloud comes along. That's when I burned out the second Atlas sw
                                                                                          machine. (No worry I have a bunch of them) A quick look at your
                                                                                          diagram, I think the turnout will go back and forth as the cars pass
                                                                                          or the train leaves the sensor. But we are on the right track. I'll
                                                                                          have to study it some more.
                                                                                          For now, I have to go to work. Been putting it off all week and
                                                                                          this one finger typing has allready put me an hour and a half late.
                                                                                          Trains are more fun, as is hashing this out with you guys.
                                                                                          By the way Gerry, How did you get those pictures so sharp and clear?

                                                                                          Bill

                                                                                          PS if anyone is getting bored with this thread please speak up and we
                                                                                          can take it off list.
                                                                                          Thanks again


                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Gerry D <gerard_sr@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Bill,
                                                                                          > The sensors put out a DC level when energized.
                                                                                          > Switch machines take kindly to both DC and AC, but
                                                                                          > need a pulse, not a level.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > If you used your sensor to activate the switch
                                                                                          > machines, they would be constantly on.
                                                                                          > That's the symptom of the lights dimming etc. You are
                                                                                          > drawing too much power to do all that.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > So you understand relays. You need a relay that will
                                                                                          > energize, close the contacts, for about .25 seconds
                                                                                          > and then release.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > the Circuitron will send a signal out to the relay, a
                                                                                          > DC level and the relay will close and stay closed
                                                                                          > drawing power, overheating the switch machine etc.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > What I think you did was to connect the Circuitron
                                                                                          > directly to the switch machine so when the level was
                                                                                          > there the switch machine motor stayed on.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Smoke?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > One way I can see doing it right now is with a bit of
                                                                                          > electronics. You need a circuit that when it gets the
                                                                                          > DC level from the Circuitron it will say OK, It'll
                                                                                          > spit out a pulse on another wire to the switch machine
                                                                                          > for a time period of .25 seconds and then shut off the
                                                                                          > power to the switch machine.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > OR!!!
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > You need two Capacitors, two resistors and one double
                                                                                          > pole double throw relay, (that operates on the voltage
                                                                                          > level the Circuitron puts out!).
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > The relays must draw very little power so they don't
                                                                                          > load down the Circuitron like the switch machine
                                                                                          > motors did.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Think this over, O Relay Master.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > one side of the relay contacts are connected to a
                                                                                          > resistor to DC. The "wiper" of the relay is connected
                                                                                          > to the capacitor. The other side goes to the switch
                                                                                          > machine. The other capacitor lead and the common of
                                                                                          > the switch machine return to the power supply.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > The opposite is done to the other three terminals, but
                                                                                          > the second capacitor is connected to the other
                                                                                          > "wiper".
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > How it works......
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > The Circuitron is not putting out any voltage or
                                                                                          > signal. The relay is not energized. One set of
                                                                                          > contacts is charging a capacitor through the resistor.
                                                                                          > The other set is connecting a discharged second
                                                                                          > capacitor to one coil of the switch machine.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > The Circuitrion sends out a signal.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > The relay is energized.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > The capacitor that was charging now is connected to
                                                                                          > the switch machine and BANG, moved the switch. At the
                                                                                          > same time the capacitor for the other coil is removed
                                                                                          > from the other coil on the switch machine and starts
                                                                                          > charging.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > The Circuitron decides to stop the DC level it's
                                                                                          > putting out.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > The relay DE-energizes and BAM the capacitor that
                                                                                          > wasn't charged in the first place but was charged
                                                                                          > while the relay was energized now sends its power to
                                                                                          > its coil and the switch moves. Meantime the other
                                                                                          > capacitor starts charging again.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Got the picture or should I diagram it out for you?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Comments?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Cordially,
                                                                                          > Gerry D
                                                                                          > Http://kitbash.ourpage.org
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > PS: you "could" do it with ONE resistor and two
                                                                                          > capacitors and one DPDT relay.
                                                                                          > _______________________________________________________
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1203 From: Gerry Date: 3/17/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: capacitor discharge
                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <takefive@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Thanks,
                                                                                          > We are on the same page. The Circuitron capacitors will work but I
                                                                                          > need two, at $50 apiece.

                                                                                          Bill,

                                                                                          We'll have to get together offline and discuss this at some time and
                                                                                          present results to the group later.

                                                                                          I'm also a hunt-n'-peck typist, but been doing it for so long, since
                                                                                          the days of the TI/99-4A, that I use two fingers and even occasionally
                                                                                          a thumb on the space bar!

                                                                                          By the way, that page of the Guy in Canada is chock full of nice
                                                                                          circuits. A combo of two of them may work for you. This one in
                                                                                          particular may be exactly what you need.
                                                                                          http://home.cogeco.ca/~rpaisley4/LoopTC.html

                                                                                          We'll also have to discuss the advantages of additional power supplies
                                                                                          for the electronics and lighting separated from the train power.

                                                                                          The secret about the pictures is they are scans.
                                                                                          A little trick people don't realize. I just placed the cars on the
                                                                                          scanner bed and placed a white piece of paper over them. Scanned and
                                                                                          edited them, added text etc, in Adobe Photoshop and there you are.

                                                                                          Pretty cool trick, huh? :-)

                                                                                          Cordially,
                                                                                          Gerry D
                                                                                          http://kitbash.ourpage.org
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1204 From: AL Date: 3/17/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Tyco as vintage ?
                                                                                          Al, I'll try to keep you in mind when I start.

                                                                                          You wouldn't be wanting any of the original loop &
                                                                                          hoop couplers, would you?

                                                                                          Gerry D

                                                                                          ............

                                                                                          Gerry,

                                                                                          drop me a line when you start hacking, lol .... honestly, I'm not THAT much
                                                                                          of a purist that I cringe to hear em cut, heck they were made in the
                                                                                          thousands.

                                                                                          Just , as I noted, hate to see irreplaceple parts get cut, when I can swap
                                                                                          already cut ones, or see the original trucks go in the junkbox / garbage .

                                                                                          Not much need for the original mantua loop couplers, I have a few cars with
                                                                                          those, but don't operate em ( not that I do much operating on my current 12"
                                                                                          x 6 ft layout, lol... but when I get the spce, would like to build a sort-of
                                                                                          HO " highrail" pike - nicely scenicked,weathered buildings,etc, but maybe a
                                                                                          few operating accessories, and definately code 100 rail, maybe even brass,
                                                                                          since I have boxes of it .

                                                                                          I'd be interested in the horn-hook tyco ( ie: SMALL center hole, which has
                                                                                          gotten hard to find) couplers, if anyone is swapping those to kadee's.
                                                                                          I actually have some Tyco and similar I've mounted Kadee 20 series on
                                                                                          myself,when I could not find hornie-hooks.
                                                                                          will have to have two mainlines when I get to building, one for kadee
                                                                                          equipt cars, one for horn-hook/ NMRA jobs... hmm could provide for
                                                                                          interesting operating, lol .

                                                                                          ~ AL
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1205 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/17/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Tyco as vintage ? (did you say... brass track?? )
                                                                                          heheheh

                                                                                          SuperSailor, did you say... BRASS track, as in boxes, lots of boxes,
                                                                                          surplus boxes perhaps?
                                                                                          call me incorrigible, but cd. 100 brass railstock, esp the US-made
                                                                                          Atlas, is another one of my favorite things.
                                                                                          ( cd. 80..? ..wuzzat? )

                                                                                          so, if you ever get the yen to dispose of any of that track, please
                                                                                          keep me email addy on file.
                                                                                          it will all find a good home in my bus layout "Southlandz" project.

                                                                                          cheers

                                                                                          ...

                                                                                          code 100 rail, maybe even brass,
                                                                                          > since I have boxes of it .
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > ~ AL
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1206 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/17/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Sixteen Tons with body-mounted KDs
                                                                                          horney-hookers, hooker-loops, dummys, old die-cast lift-pin knuckles, i
                                                                                          run them all... but only as a forward drag.
                                                                                          that sort of train does nothing but loop for looks.
                                                                                          (like the Tyco unLimited, consisting of a couple dozen of the hilarious
                                                                                          billboard preg-whale tankers and hoppers and plug-doors... detergent,
                                                                                          snack foods, sodapop... product placement, ya know.... colorful.)

                                                                                          when it comes time to Operate, however, only body-mounted KDs will do.
                                                                                          there is nothing quite like the thrill of backing a VERY long train
                                                                                          over hill and dale and thru a #4 crossover without the least bit of
                                                                                          fear.

                                                                                          my hubris has it's limits, tho.
                                                                                          even body mounts will pop sideways when slammed on a curve.
                                                                                          i found that out when decelerating too suddenly...heh.
                                                                                          the engines slowed but that train just kept on a-coming!

                                                                                          ...
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1207 From: Gerry D Date: 3/17/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Tyco as vintage ?
                                                                                          Again, Al, I'll try to keep you in mind when I look
                                                                                          over my couplers collection. I won't be keeping many
                                                                                          original couplers. Two people spoke up about the
                                                                                          parts, one for the hook and look which I'll be
                                                                                          sending my old box of them to next week and another
                                                                                          about the trucks. I can't very well send him trucks
                                                                                          w/o couplers though.
                                                                                          I do have loose couplers, mantua/tyco type tiny hole
                                                                                          x2f, I'll see what I have soon.

                                                                                          Gerry


                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > drop me a line when you start hacking, lol ....
                                                                                          > honestly, I'm not THAT much
                                                                                          > of a purist that I cringe to hear em cut, heck they
                                                                                          > were made in the
                                                                                          > thousands.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Just , as I noted, hate to see irreplaceple parts
                                                                                          > get cut, when I can swap
                                                                                          > already cut ones, or see the original trucks go in
                                                                                          > the junkbox / garbage .
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Not much need for the original mantua loop
                                                                                          > couplers, I have a few cars with
                                                                                          > those, but don't operate em ( not that I do much
                                                                                          > operating on my current 12"
                                                                                          > x 6 ft layout, lol... but when I get the spce, would
                                                                                          > like to build a sort-of
                                                                                          > HO " highrail" pike - nicely scenicked,weathered
                                                                                          > buildings,etc, but maybe a
                                                                                          > few operating accessories, and definately code 100
                                                                                          > rail, maybe even brass,
                                                                                          > since I have boxes of it .
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > I'd be interested in the horn-hook tyco ( ie: SMALL
                                                                                          > center hole, which has
                                                                                          > gotten hard to find) couplers, if anyone is swapping
                                                                                          > those to kadee's.
                                                                                          > I actually have some Tyco and similar I've mounted
                                                                                          > Kadee 20 series on
                                                                                          > myself,when I could not find hornie-hooks.
                                                                                          > will have to have two mainlines when I get to
                                                                                          > building, one for kadee
                                                                                          > equipt cars, one for horn-hook/ NMRA jobs... hmm
                                                                                          > could provide for
                                                                                          > interesting operating, lol .
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > ~ AL
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >


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                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1208 From: Gerry D Date: 3/17/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Goodbye
                                                                                          Chuck,
                                                                                          Gramps, what's the story here? You can't just up and
                                                                                          leave! Some of us still need your experienced
                                                                                          thoughts!
                                                                                          Cordially,
                                                                                          Gerry

                                                                                          --- Chuck Svihlik <c_t_j_dad@...> wrote:

                                                                                          > I would like to wish everyone in the group good
                                                                                          > health and good
                                                                                          > modeling. I will be thinking of you. So I say
                                                                                          > goodbye, and have fun.
                                                                                          > Gramps
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >


                                                                                          __________________________________________________
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                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1210 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/17/2006
                                                                                          Subject: if i could save trains in a bottle...
                                                                                          if i could save trains in a bottle...
                                                                                          the first thing that i'd like to do...
                                                                                          is save every train, til eternity passes, and then, i could run them
                                                                                          with you...

                                                                                          but there never seems to be enough time, to do the things you want to
                                                                                          do, once you find them...

                                                                                          ---

                                                                                          every time i see that silver streak flying past on the magic carpet
                                                                                          made of steel, i wonder how much longer they will run.

                                                                                          where is David Gunn?
                                                                                          - we need him now more than ever.
                                                                                          just when he was making a difference, the (expletives deleted)
                                                                                          imbeciles shut him out.
                                                                                          and let me see now: they want to replace him with someone "from the
                                                                                          airline industry".

                                                                                          mercifully for us all, words fail me.

                                                                                          ...
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1211 From: Don Riley Date: 3/17/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: if i could save trains in a bottle...
                                                                                          Imp,
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Love the song!!
                                                                                          I too have boxes of Athearn and MDC. Of all eras. Old trains for the most part last forever! Though those old metal RDCs seem to be getting tired. Or at least mine are.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          As for David Gunn. I agree!!! He was really great. Too bad those morons put him out! Airline industry hey. Those bunch of morons. I hear they are going to start charging extra for the exit seats! Such a load of crapola. I would be happy to see the airline industry die off. Sure would help Amtrak!
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Steamengine 4449

                                                                                          Imp Ster <iimpster@...> wrote:
                                                                                          if i could save trains in a bottle...
                                                                                          the first thing that i'd like to do...
                                                                                          is save every train, til eternity passes, and then, i could run them with you...

                                                                                          but there never seems to be enough time, to do the things you want to do, once you find them...

                                                                                          ---

                                                                                          every time i see that silver streak flying past on the magic carpet
                                                                                          made of steel, i wonder how much longer they will run.

                                                                                          where is David Gunn?
                                                                                          - we need him now more than ever.
                                                                                          just when he was making a difference, the (expletives deleted) imbeciles shut him out.
                                                                                          and let me see now: they want to replace him with someone "from the airline industry".

                                                                                          mercifully for us all, words fail me.

                                                                                          ...


                                                                                          Brings words and photos together (easily) with
                                                                                          PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.

                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1213 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/18/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Goodbye
                                                                                          I spoke with him off list, he will be back.

                                                                                          Suffice to say, there was a thread in the last week or so that got rather
                                                                                          off topic and a little bitter, I was going to say something at the time, but
                                                                                          it seems to have died out.

                                                                                          Don

                                                                                          don.dellmann@...
                                                                                          http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                          moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO

                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          From: Gerry D <gerard_sr@...>
                                                                                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                          Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 10:41 PM
                                                                                          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Goodbye


                                                                                          > Chuck,
                                                                                          > Gramps, what's the story here? You can't just up and
                                                                                          > leave! Some of us still need your experienced
                                                                                          > thoughts!
                                                                                          > Cordially,
                                                                                          > Gerry
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > --- Chuck Svihlik <c_t_j_dad@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > > I would like to wish everyone in the group good
                                                                                          > > health and good
                                                                                          > > modeling. I will be thinking of you. So I say
                                                                                          > > goodbye, and have fun.
                                                                                          > > Gramps
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > __________________________________________________
                                                                                          > Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                          > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                                                          > http://mail.yahoo.com
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > SPONSORED LINKS Ho scale G scale model train G scale train
                                                                                          > Ho scale model train Ho scale trains
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                          ------
                                                                                          > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > a.. Visit your group "vintageHO" on the web.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                          > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                          Service.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                          ------
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1216 From: Dave Slater Date: 3/18/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: RXR - Look Out For The Cars !
                                                                                          Methinks the Impster has had a little too much green beer..  LOL
                                                                                          How do I view this delectable sight???  <VBG>
                                                                                          Dave S.

                                                                                          Imp Ster wrote:
                                                                                          for tonight's viewing pleasure, vee haff zee vell-ached green Athearn
                                                                                          FP45 en rotisserie uno e mas, mitt de roasted & rusted 50 und 40 ras
                                                                                          logenwagen, un zee foundry-slabben de steelen..

                                                                                          und, for dessert ve haff zee nuevue Tyco hatchen-hopper, mitt de nuevue
                                                                                          couplen KD.

                                                                                          bon appetite' les cherie!

                                                                                          (Hours of Operation: 9 - 11:59 OM EST, Sat - Sun - Holidays

                                                                                          top o da mornin to ye!

                                                                                          %%- %%- %%- %%-

                                                                                          ...

                                                                                          (see Yahoo Webcam for details.

                                                                                          ...





                                                                                          No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.2.5/284 - Release Date: 17/03/2006
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1217 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/18/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Sixteen Tons with body-mounted KDs
                                                                                          heheheh

                                                                                          http://www.pcdon.com/-sixteentons%5b1].wav

                                                                                          see full collection online (free files for non commercial use) here,
                                                                                          including many rare (vintage) railroad songs by several different
                                                                                          artists:

                                                                                          http://www.pcdon.com/country_comfort.html

                                                                                          regards, da imp

                                                                                          ...

                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Imp Ster" <iimpster@...> wrote:

                                                                                          ...
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1218 From: whistlestop2000 Date: 3/18/2006
                                                                                          Subject: A cup of Tca anyone?
                                                                                          Hi Everyone,

                                                                                          I've been following the recent "discussion" regarding current
                                                                                          Athearn, and while I have no wish to stir up that hornet's nest
                                                                                          again, it did bring to mind something I've been thinking of for a
                                                                                          while.

                                                                                          There is obviously considerable interest in Vintage HO, but there
                                                                                          doesn't seem to be much recognition of it as such by train-
                                                                                          collecting bodies such as the TCA. I am a member of the TCA,
                                                                                          although as I live on another planet I have little chance of really
                                                                                          participating, nevertheless, I enjoy and appreciate the
                                                                                          Association. Are many or most of the members of this group TCA
                                                                                          (orTTOS) members?? Or not??

                                                                                          I see on a recent flyer about the TCA York swapmeet that there are
                                                                                          meetings of different interest groups, including, for example, OO
                                                                                          guage, but no mention of Vintage HO. Perhaps if this segment of the
                                                                                          hobby had more recognition then manufacturers would realise that
                                                                                          there are still a significant number of hobbyists who want to do all
                                                                                          the things we like so much about Vintage HO, such as buying and
                                                                                          building craftsman-style kits, etc. In England, which I visit
                                                                                          occasionaly, there is the same sort of situation, ie the current
                                                                                          manufacturers are producing amazingly detailed items, but at a
                                                                                          price, aimed at "finescale" modellers. I guess the difference
                                                                                          there, though, is that there are very active clubs supporting the
                                                                                          Vintage OO (and other) trains such as Hornby Dublo, Tri-ang, Trix
                                                                                          etc.

                                                                                          The model railroad press largely ignores our segment of the hobby,
                                                                                          unfortunately, except for the excellent "Collector Consist" in RMC.
                                                                                          Classic Toy Trains is my favorite magazine, but they've obviously
                                                                                          chosen not to cover Vintage HO at all. A couple of recent articles
                                                                                          have been about layouts featuring both O or S guage, and HO, on the
                                                                                          same layout, but photos have been carefully composed so as not to
                                                                                          show any HO trains! I don't know why this is, but I would really
                                                                                          like to see occasional (or regular!) articles dealing with the old
                                                                                          ready-to-run or kit manufacturers that we have such high regard for.

                                                                                          Do group members think that organisations such as TCA should, or
                                                                                          could, help us Vintage HOers enjoy our hobby more?? Can I look
                                                                                          forward to being part of the Vintage HO get-together at York in
                                                                                          2007?? I'd welcome comments, ideas, suggestions on this (but
                                                                                          please, no rants!!!<G>)

                                                                                          Cheers, Simon
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1219 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/19/2006
                                                                                          Subject: a Fine Irish gandy-dancer, indeed
                                                                                          nawp, no more beer (green or otherwise) for this olde goate until at
                                                                                          least 2010, when my DUI probation expires.
                                                                                          i find that i have quite lost my thirst for such things.
                                                                                          goes to show what can happen when i neglect my first love; coffee.

                                                                                          so now, all my spare pence, beyond goat chow, is now extraordinarily
                                                                                          rendered unto Caesar, that is, DMV of Va.
                                                                                          that means no more toy trains in my shopping basket for awhile.
                                                                                          (excepting, see below, that was the last extravagance for awhile)

                                                                                          note, the Sat evening webcast was interupted at about 10 pm by my
                                                                                          impending exhaustion, hence i just went to bed early for once.
                                                                                          here it is about 6:30 Sunday morning, i'm gonna spend the day at the
                                                                                          goat yard but plan to do the Sunday evening webcast as usual.

                                                                                          tip o da shamrock to KMA Junction of Mansassas Va for holding 6 blue-
                                                                                          box Athearn hoppers and covered gondolas for me all last week, until
                                                                                          i could get up there Saturday with a bit of loot.
                                                                                          Sunday night's train will feature a dbl-header of the FP-45s which
                                                                                          are warming up now with a mere 16 car train.
                                                                                          several more hoppers will be added by evening show-time.

                                                                                          webcast is via Yahoo's Instant Messenger service, please do not clik
                                                                                          on any webcam adverts.
                                                                                          you can also view the camera via the Trillian cross-platform
                                                                                          Messenger application, see their free basic download at Trillian.com.

                                                                                          cheers

                                                                                          ...
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1220 From: Joe Melhorn Date: 3/19/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Want to buy - Roundhouse 3-in-1 kits
                                                                                          I am looking for the following Roundhouse 3-in-1 kits:

                                                                                          1501 - 21' Wood Chip Car set (2 sets)
                                                                                          1503 - MOW passenger car set
                                                                                          1507 - Fire Fighting Train set
                                                                                          1508 - Steel Ore Jimmies (3 sets)
                                                                                          1509 - Log Car & Building set (2 sets)
                                                                                          1519 - Steam Shovel & Dump Car

                                                                                          Email me off line if you have any of these you would like to sell.

                                                                                          Thanks,

                                                                                          Joe Melhorn
                                                                                          Orangevale, CA 95662 (near Sacramento)
                                                                                          mailto:joe@...
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1221 From: takefive247 Date: 3/19/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: a Fine Irish gandy-dancer, indeed
                                                                                          Imp Ster,
                                                                                          I know you have posted this before, but could you, or anyone, tell me
                                                                                          how to view your web cam or point me to the post where you explained
                                                                                          it? I just downloadd Yahoo messinger. Had it before but didn't care to
                                                                                          keep it.
                                                                                          Bill


                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Imp Ster" <iimpster@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > webcast is via Yahoo's Instant Messenger service, please do not clik
                                                                                          > on any webcam adverts.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > ...
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1222 From: takefive247 Date: 3/19/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Metal wheel sets
                                                                                          Some pointers on metal wheel sets please. I have lots of old cars and
                                                                                          lots of extra wheels. Sort of a pack rat. Some it's obvious what is
                                                                                          metal but some I just don't know. For example, I have, in the package,
                                                                                          some Life Like Proto 2000, 33"wheel sets I can't tell. How would I
                                                                                          tell what is metal and what will fit where. Do they really make a
                                                                                          difference in just changeing them or are there other little tricks in
                                                                                          changing them that implove there operation?
                                                                                          Thanks
                                                                                          Bill
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1223 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 3/19/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: A cup of Tca anyone?
                                                                                          I don't know what "considerable" interest means or how it is measured.  Certainly there is "some" interest in Vintage HO.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Here is what the TCA publishes as its mission:
                                                                                           
                                                                                          "Our Mission

                                                                                          To develop an appreciation of and to preserve an important segment of history - Tinplate Toy Trains - through research, education, community outreach, fellowship, establishment of collecting standards, and to promote the growth and enjoyment of collecting and operating toy, model and scale trains."

                                                                                          Now, that would seem a little schizophrenic because they say "Tinplate Toy Trains" (which I think most would agree do not include "vintage HO") and then go on and say "promote toy, model, and scale trains".
                                                                                           
                                                                                          I have seen precious little TCA promotion, ir any, of "scale" trains.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          I am also a member of TCA and I think that membership is nearly 100% focused on tinplate trains.  (Pretty much O gauge and standard gauge and collectibles that are even older).  Their monthly pulp paper flyer of members listing things for sales has a tiny, tiny section that is HO.  But I don't think that's because the organization as a whole has any interest, but just because enough members use that avenue to sell some stuff.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          It's a little like the Blues Brothers movie where the band goes into Bob's Country Bunker road house and asks what kind of music is played.  The answer is "both kinds - country AND western".  Like there is no other.  In the TCA or TTOS worlds they might answer "both kinds - collecting tinplate AND operating tinplate".  Or perhaps "both kinds - tinplate AND Hi-Rail".  Like there really isn't anything else.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          I attended the TCA national meet in Chicago area a few years back and saw no HO presence whatsoever.  I have been to the NorCal show in Northern California a few times maybe seeing a little HO in a box under a table, but not much.  One year it was coordinated to be at the same time and place as the O scale national convention, which tells us something.  I've also visited their facility in Strasburg, PA.  Again - tinplate.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          You mentioned the OO interest group.  I doubt that even that would exist if OO hadn't been produced by Lionel.  You see a little interest in Lionel HO out there, even though it is clearly not "tinplate".
                                                                                           
                                                                                          I very much doubt that vintage HO would take hold with TCA.  Nor do I think it would be a very good fit in their organization.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Regarding the press and the manufacturers:  I think they follow the market and not what this or that organization wishes.  If people speak with their checkbooks about craftsman kits, somebody will make them.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          I also get Classic Toy Trains and it's pretty obvious what the focus is.  And with Model Railroader, Kalmbach has no reason to dilute CTT with HO articles.  Just like you don't see a lot of tinplate article in Model Railroader.  I imagine that if either magazine "broke ranks", they would receive a pile of complaints.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          I don't know of a national organzation that focuses on Vintage HO.  I suppose somebody could try and start one.  but I have a feeling that somebody will find that the interest is more along the lines of "some" than "considerable".
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Chuck Kinzer
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 11:05 PM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] A cup of Tca anyone?

                                                                                          Hi Everyone,

                                                                                          I've been following the recent "discussion" regarding current
                                                                                          Athearn, and while I have no wish to stir up that hornet's nest
                                                                                          again, it did bring to mind something I've been thinking of for a
                                                                                          while.

                                                                                          There is obviously considerable interest in Vintage HO, but there
                                                                                          doesn't seem to be much recognition of it as such by train-
                                                                                          collecting bodies such as the TCA. I am a member of the TCA,
                                                                                          although as I live on another planet I have little chance of really
                                                                                          participating,  nevertheless, I enjoy and appreciate the
                                                                                          Association. Are many or most of the members of this group TCA
                                                                                          (orTTOS) members?? Or not??

                                                                                          I see on a recent flyer about the TCA York swapmeet that there are
                                                                                          meetings of different interest groups, including, for example, OO
                                                                                          guage, but no mention of Vintage HO.  Perhaps if this segment of the
                                                                                          hobby had more recognition then manufacturers would realise that
                                                                                          there are still a significant number of hobbyists who want to do all
                                                                                          the things we like so much about Vintage HO, such as buying and
                                                                                          building craftsman-style kits, etc.  In England, which I visit
                                                                                          occasionaly, there is the same sort of situation, ie the current
                                                                                          manufacturers are producing amazingly detailed items, but at a
                                                                                          price, aimed at "finescale" modellers.  I guess the difference
                                                                                          there, though, is that there are very active clubs supporting the
                                                                                          Vintage OO (and other) trains such as Hornby Dublo, Tri-ang, Trix
                                                                                          etc.

                                                                                          The model railroad press largely ignores our segment of the hobby,
                                                                                          unfortunately, except for the excellent "Collector Consist" in RMC.
                                                                                          Classic Toy Trains is my favorite magazine, but they've obviously
                                                                                          chosen not to cover Vintage HO at all.  A couple of recent articles
                                                                                          have been about layouts featuring both O or S guage, and HO, on the
                                                                                          same layout, but photos have been carefully composed so as not to
                                                                                          show any HO trains! I don't know why this is, but I would really
                                                                                          like to see occasional (or regular!) articles dealing with the old
                                                                                          ready-to-run or kit manufacturers that we have such high regard for.

                                                                                          Do group members think that organisations such as TCA should, or
                                                                                          could, help us Vintage HOers enjoy our hobby more?? Can I look
                                                                                          forward to being part of the Vintage HO get-together at York in
                                                                                          2007??  I'd welcome comments, ideas, suggestions on this (but
                                                                                          please, no rants!!!<G>)

                                                                                          Cheers, Simon



                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1224 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 3/19/2006
                                                                                          Subject: The future of Vintage HO - some ramblings
                                                                                          I've noticed folks that like vintage HO (as I do) lamenting the fading away of various products and the fading away of apparent interest in magazines or organizations.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          I'm guessing that, for the most part, the fading will continue.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          I'm a member of an organization devoted to the Avanti automobile and owners are very passionate.  And there is often the complaint that the cars aren't worth much and nobody else seems interested.  Members argue that the cars are rare, unusual, and pretty old.  So shouldn't they be worth more than a pittance?  And they really frustrate trying to figure out how a common car like a 56 Chevy gets many times more dollars.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          After some discussion about that, I think some of the answers there apply to Vintage HO.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          The answer doesn't necessarily lie in whether it is rare, or unusual, or old, or historic, or interesting.  The answer lies in whether it is on the minds or in the hearts people.  Or if it isn't.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Many grew up wanting those Chevys or being in families that had them.  There is a big population of them.  And that population reached a purchasing power stage in their lives.  Few Avantis were made and almost nobody's family had one.  Now it's muscle cars getting big bucks.  Just look at the age group that is buying and the age they were when they were drooling over the cars, but couldn't afford them.  Also, perhaps more importantly, it is a link to their youth and perhaps a better time.  (I'm betting that hits a nerve here and there.)
                                                                                           
                                                                                          I don't know what the average age is of members on this list.  But I'm guessing it doesn't represent the youth of America.  An Avanti owner (knowing the age of the typical owner) made the sobering statement that probably 90% of Avantis would come up for sale, for one reason or another, in the next 15 years.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          If the big reason you are interested in Vintage HO is because that is what you grew up with, then you probably shouldn't expect much future in it.  "Vintage HO" to some teenager that knows every nuance of EMD and GE diesels might someday be the current engines and kits that some complain about today.  And how many people are passionate about the earliest HO that was before their time?
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Fortunately, many model railroaders seem to be pack rats which, with ebay's help, should make a steady supply of items.  It seems there are a lot of unbuilt kits out there and somebody is just a custodian for awhile until it is sold to sit on somebody else's shelf.  (I'll bet I might have hit another nerve there.  Including mine!)  As people leave the hobby, inevitably one way or another, these items become available again.  I not only don't expect a shortage, but I expect an increase if the number of interested buyers decreases over time. 
                                                                                           
                                                                                          I think Woody Allen got it right in his narration at the end of his movie Radio Days:  "I've never forgotten any of those people or any of the voices we would hear on the radio. Though the truth is, with the passing of each New Year's Eve, those voices do seem to grow dimmer and dimmer."
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Of course, what happens when nobody is around to even remember?  In the mean time, I guess we continue to enjoy what we like regardless of what "new blood" likes or where the market goes.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Chuck Kinzer
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1225 From: Rick Jones Date: 3/19/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: A cup of Tca anyone?
                                                                                          whistlestop2000 wrote:
                                                                                          > Are many or most of the members of this group TCA
                                                                                          > (orTTOS) members?? Or not??

                                                                                          I have never been a member of, nor had any interest in joining,
                                                                                          either group. From my POV kits are meant to be built and all model
                                                                                          trains are meant to be run, not sit on some shelf gathering dust or,
                                                                                          potentially, accumulating value for later resale.

                                                                                          --

                                                                                          Rick Jones

                                                                                          The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad
                                                                                          http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/

                                                                                          You know you're getting old when 6:00 AM is when you get up, not
                                                                                          when you go to bed.
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1226 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 3/19/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: A cup of Tca anyone?
                                                                                          Those groups are not necessarily at odds with your philosophy.  I wouldn't want people left with the impression that all members only have display pieces or sealed never opened cartons.  Plenty of folks in TCA are operators and the number of operators has been steadily growing.  And the TTOS is, after all, is Toy Train Operating Society".
                                                                                           
                                                                                          If someone wants to run the wheels off their trains, they would be welcome in either group.  There is even a "Tinplate Trackers" standard for portable operating modules similar to an N-Trak standard.  And the Tom McComas tape series shows plenty of operating layouts including those of Tom Snyder, Mandy Patinkin, and the late Frank Sinatra. 
                                                                                           
                                                                                          However, I don't think an HO modeler or any scale modeler would have much reason to join either group.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Chuck Kinzer
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          From: Rick Jones
                                                                                          Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 3:13 PM
                                                                                          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] A cup of Tca anyone?

                                                                                          whistlestop2000 wrote:
                                                                                          > Are many or most of the members of this group TCA
                                                                                          > (orTTOS) members?? Or not??

                                                                                              I have never been a member of, nor had any interest in joining,
                                                                                          either group. From my POV kits are meant to be built and all model
                                                                                          trains are meant to be run, not sit on some shelf gathering dust or,
                                                                                          potentially, accumulating value for later resale.

                                                                                          --

                                                                                                                Rick Jones

                                                                                          The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad
                                                                                          http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/

                                                                                          You know you're getting old when 6:00 AM is when you get up, not
                                                                                          when you go to bed.
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1227 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/19/2006
                                                                                          Subject: 9:44-55 PM EST - R X R - Look Out For The Cars!
                                                                                          trains are running - gettem while they last...
                                                                                          there will be no noise after midnight!! (EST)

                                                                                          tonights roster:

                                                                                          2 FP-45s, 2 Athearn 50ft sliding door boxes, 4 Athearn 40ft sliding
                                                                                          door boxes (incl 1 John Deer), 1 Ulrich 4-bay covered hopper (National
                                                                                          Plate Glass), 1 classic Athearn heavy 50ft flat w/ twin 2-truck bogies
                                                                                          w/ ingot, 4 Tyco op-hoppers, 1 Train-Miniature 40ft flat w/ ingot, 1
                                                                                          classic Athearn AAR hopper ("Repent!"), 3 modern Athearn 35ft bathtub
                                                                                          gondolas (Pennsy), 5 Tyco 50ft 4-bay hoppers, 2 steel GN crummys.

                                                                                          let the rail grinding commence!

                                                                                          ...
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1228 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/19/2006
                                                                                          Subject: a note of a possible future of Vintage HO - some ramblings
                                                                                          "Of course, what happens when nobody is around to even remember? ..."
                                                                                          - Chuck Kinzer

                                                                                          ...

                                                                                          deep in some abandoned mine shaft, unknown to any and forgotten by
                                                                                          all, lurks an ancient school bus filled with a convoluted spaghetti-
                                                                                          bowl of Vintage HO rail.
                                                                                          wires like tendrils of seedlings climbing up through many a hidden
                                                                                          crevice seeking the air sprouted into moss-covered solar panels on
                                                                                          the mountainside far above, feeding the deep root-cellar battery
                                                                                          banks.

                                                                                          every so often, a grimy CPU sputtered to life and sent a lone train
                                                                                          ambling over the circuit.
                                                                                          once there had been many such trains and curcuits, but as time went
                                                                                          by, one by one the trains fell silent for one mishap or another.
                                                                                          until now only the one was left, grinding slower and slower with each
                                                                                          occasion.

                                                                                          in the lone driver seat of the old bus, a crumbling skeleton, replete
                                                                                          with railroad-issue gloves and boots, gave mute testimony of Art's
                                                                                          Last Ride.

                                                                                          ...
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1229 From: whistlestop2000 Date: 3/20/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: a note of a possible future of Vintage HO - some ramblings
                                                                                          --G'day Imp,
                                                                                          Just wanted to let you know that I laughed and laughed when I read
                                                                                          your story this morning!!! Seriously, you should be writing a
                                                                                          monthly column for a magazine!

                                                                                          Keep the stories coming, eh!!

                                                                                          Cheers, Simon

                                                                                          - In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Imp Ster" <iimpster@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > "Of course, what happens when nobody is around to even
                                                                                          remember? ..."
                                                                                          > - Chuck Kinzer
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > ...
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > deep in some abandoned mine shaft, unknown to any and forgotten by
                                                                                          > all, lurks an ancient school bus filled with a convoluted
                                                                                          spaghetti-
                                                                                          > bowl of Vintage HO rail.
                                                                                          > wires like tendrils of seedlings climbing up through many a hidden
                                                                                          > crevice seeking the air sprouted into moss-covered solar panels on
                                                                                          > the mountainside far above, feeding the deep root-cellar battery
                                                                                          > banks.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > every so often, a grimy CPU sputtered to life and sent a lone
                                                                                          train
                                                                                          > ambling over the circuit.
                                                                                          > once there had been many such trains and curcuits, but as time
                                                                                          went
                                                                                          > by, one by one the trains fell silent for one mishap or another.
                                                                                          > until now only the one was left, grinding slower and slower with
                                                                                          each
                                                                                          > occasion.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > in the lone driver seat of the old bus, a crumbling skeleton,
                                                                                          replete
                                                                                          > with railroad-issue gloves and boots, gave mute testimony of Art's
                                                                                          > Last Ride.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > ...
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1230 From: AL Date: 3/20/2006
                                                                                          Subject: is da Imp actually the re-incarnation of EL Moore ?
                                                                                          > --G'day Imp,
                                                                                          > Just wanted to let you know that I laughed and laughed when I read
                                                                                          > your story this morning!!! Seriously, you should be writing a
                                                                                          > monthly column for a magazine!
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Keep the stories coming, eh!!

                                                                                          I agree 110 %.

                                                                                          Reminds me of the old stories used to run in Four Wheeler magazine about
                                                                                          the travels of an old guy and his dog ( forget the name without pulling out
                                                                                          an old issue of my dad's ).

                                                                                          Do be sure to send them to Railroad Model Craftsman ... definate shades of
                                                                                          old E.L. Moore stuff :-)

                                                                                          ~ AL

                                                                                          ps: re the TCA / TTOS, I do nto belong to either, and doubt I ever will,
                                                                                          although I have a minor interest in tinplate.
                                                                                          I'm an HO guy, had em as a child ( before I had any O27, which I got in
                                                                                          high school,used).
                                                                                          tried N and bcak to Ho when I got re-enthused (adicted ?).
                                                                                          now I collect both vintage ( older than myself, in deference to the comment
                                                                                          about not being interested in older than when I entered the hobby in the
                                                                                          early 70's ), and I collect Tyco,AHM,etc.... since they give ME enjoyment,
                                                                                          I'm not too worried about the resale values ( as some tinplaters are), but
                                                                                          since HO will always be around, figure they;re worth the 'investment' as
                                                                                          well, since someone will always want em to operate / play with .

                                                                                          I think I mentioned before my other hobby (being overtaken by HO, lol) is
                                                                                          amateur rocketry, and that hobby has it's own segments ( competition,high
                                                                                          power,motor building, and vintage collectors, plus a large segment of
                                                                                          builders who build painstaking replica / clones of old models.
                                                                                          and the different segments generally co-exist, many overlap, with special
                                                                                          interest groups such as this list.
                                                                                          seems that, instead of the TTOS or TCA, that maybe the NMRA needs a
                                                                                          'vintage' subgroup.

                                                                                          I do know that a local club which I visited a few times ( might join up
                                                                                          yet, just have not had the time , logistical openings the right meeting
                                                                                          nights,etc), runs everything from latest DCC sound-equipt Broadway models,
                                                                                          alongside old metal side varney and some Penn Line equipt. I noted (
                                                                                          particularly a batch of thier old piggypack trailers ).
                                                                                          just shows people will run what they have / like, which made me feel good
                                                                                          about going back when I get the chance, since they're not a bunch of rivet
                                                                                          counters, just old-timers having fun with trains .

                                                                                          ~ AL ( long PS, I know, lol )
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1231 From: Jack Priller Date: 3/21/2006
                                                                                          Subject: The ¿good? old days
                                                                                          Just added two photos the "Jack's Junque", after cleaning several
                                                                                          decades worth of grime and oxidazation off the locomotive. For all the
                                                                                          nostalgia buffs, any of you want to try doing it this way?

                                                                                          Ye Olde Trolleynut
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1232 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 3/21/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: The ¿good? old days
                                                                                          It's nice to know I'm not the only one thet takes on projects like that.
                                                                                           I have an HO E6 atlantic I built from sheet steel and have a K4 in the works.
                                                                                           Keep us posted on your progress.

                                                                                          Jack Priller <westpac67@...> wrote:
                                                                                            Just added two photos the "Jack's Junque", after cleaning several
                                                                                          decades worth of grime and oxidazation off the locomotive. For all the
                                                                                          nostalgia buffs, any of you want to try doing it this way?

                                                                                          Ye Olde Trolleynut







                                                                                          Yahoo! Mail
                                                                                          Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.

                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1233 From: Jack Priller Date: 3/22/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: The ¿good? old days
                                                                                          Problem being, it did NOT start out as my project, so I don't have a
                                                                                          clue as to the prototype. The gentleman who got it as far as it is has
                                                                                          passed on, so I cannot ask him. Time for some research I guess.

                                                                                          Ye Olde Trolleynut

                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Ray Marinaccio <raymarinaccio@...>
                                                                                          wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > It's nice to know I'm not the only one thet takes on projects like
                                                                                          that.
                                                                                          > I have an HO E6 atlantic I built from sheet steel and have a K4
                                                                                          in the works.
                                                                                          > Keep us posted on your progress.
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1234 From: Jack Priller Date: 3/22/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Date please
                                                                                          No, I don't plan on taking ANY of you out to dinner or a movie.
                                                                                          Well, "The Great Locomotive Chase" maybe. But you pay for the chow!

                                                                                          Just acquired, via 2nd-hand store, at a price I could NOT resist, a
                                                                                          Mantua 1890 coach (D&RGW) in the old style orange and yellow box. I
                                                                                          know they are still making this car, but would like to know when they
                                                                                          stopped using that box. BTW, box is in fair to good condition; car
                                                                                          looks like it never turned a wheel on HO track!

                                                                                          Ye Olde Trolleynut
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1235 From: takefive247 Date: 3/23/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Kadee & Mantua
                                                                                          How do you pick the right Kadee couplers for the old (or any) Mantua
                                                                                          tenders? I have two of the 4-8-0, 12 wheelers I need to put couplers
                                                                                          on. The height is way off with the #5's. Are the offset couplers
                                                                                          enough, and if so, what one?
                                                                                          Thanks
                                                                                          Bill
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1236 From: Glenn Date: 3/23/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Kadee & Mantua
                                                                                          I don't recall having any trouble with one I built--gj
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 6:03 PM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Kadee & Mantua

                                                                                          How do you pick the right Kadee couplers for the old (or any) Mantua
                                                                                          tenders?  I have two of the 4-8-0, 12 wheelers I need to put couplers
                                                                                          on. The height is way off with the #5's.  Are the offset couplers
                                                                                          enough, and if so, what one?
                                                                                          Thanks
                                                                                          Bill




                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1237 From: Angus Macdonald Date: 3/23/2006
                                                                                          Subject: (no subject)
                                                                                          I have for sale on EBay 17 pair of Pacific HO (Silver Streak) sprung
                                                                                          trucks. Item #6046471193
                                                                                          Thanks for looking.
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1238 From: Glenn Date: 3/23/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: (unknown)
                                                                                          Are you selling the rest of the SP?
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 6:56 PM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] (unknown)

                                                                                          I have for sale on EBay 17 pair of Pacific HO (Silver Streak) sprung
                                                                                          trucks. Item #6046471193
                                                                                          Thanks for looking.






                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1239 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 3/24/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Kadee & Mantua

                                                                                          It looks like #37 will do.  They are the underset shank ones.  JerryG.

                                                                                           


                                                                                          From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of takefive247
                                                                                          Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 8:03 PM
                                                                                          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Kadee & Mantua

                                                                                           

                                                                                          How do you pick the right Kadee couplers for the old (or any) Mantua
                                                                                          tenders?  I have two of the 4-8-0, 12 wheelers I need to put couplers
                                                                                          on. The height is way off with the #5's.  Are the offset couplers
                                                                                          enough, and if so, what one?
                                                                                          Thanks
                                                                                          Bill





                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1240 From: takefive247 Date: 3/24/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Kadee & Mantua
                                                                                          Thanks guys,
                                                                                          After rechecking my installation of the #5, I found a couple things
                                                                                          I could use your input on. I did find an under set coupler in my tray
                                                                                          but no idea what # it is. Checks out with the gage but still a little
                                                                                          low for the cars I was using. One thing I found was the older 12
                                                                                          wheeler tender rides a bit lower then the newer one. Is this normal?
                                                                                          The wheels are a couple thousands smaller but I don't think that would
                                                                                          cause it to ride that much lower. Your thoughts?
                                                                                          Bill


                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Garteiser" <jerryg@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > It looks like #37 will do. They are the underset shank ones. JerryG.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > _____
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com]
                                                                                          On Behalf
                                                                                          > Of takefive247
                                                                                          > Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 8:03 PM
                                                                                          > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > Subject: [vintageHO] Kadee & Mantua
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > How do you pick the right Kadee couplers for the old (or any) Mantua
                                                                                          > tenders? I have two of the 4-8-0, 12 wheelers I need to put couplers
                                                                                          > on. The height is way off with the #5's. Are the offset couplers
                                                                                          > enough, and if so, what one?
                                                                                          > Thanks
                                                                                          > Bill
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > _____
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > * Visit your group "vintageHO
                                                                                          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO> " on the web.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                          > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > <mailto:vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                                                                                          > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > _____
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1241 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 3/24/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Kadee & Mantua

                                                                                          Bill-I think Mantua/Tyco used a bunch of different vendors (“lowest price”) for wheelsets.  I’ve seen 33” wheels, 36” wheels, deep flanges, deeper flanges (so the “kids” could run them at 200 mph without them coming off the track), and stuff that would run on Code 70 rail on their tender trucks.  The floor castings also seem to vary; some have the center spacer “pin” cast in so you just have to use a #2-56 screw to hold the trucks on; some others use the brass shouldered screw and a flat surface on the bolster.  And then there is the actual coupler mounting point, which has at least 3 variations (I have tenders with at least 3-they all are at different levels relative to the bottom of the shell casting).  So, it is really necessary to “trial and error” until it gets right.  The first thing I would do is get the wheelsets in the trucks that will run on your track without “riding the ties”.  Then play around with the couplers (regular, underset, shims, etc.) until it all checks out with your check gauge.  Just remember, Mantua has (had) been making these things for 70 years, so I would think the dies have been rebuilt/renewed many times  (there must be a half million Mike and Pacific tenders running around out there!!) .  The nice thing is that playing with the tender coupler is very easy.  The locomotive pilot is a different story!!    Good luck!    Regards,  JerryG.

                                                                                           


                                                                                          From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of takefive247
                                                                                          Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 8:28 PM
                                                                                          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Kadee & Mantua

                                                                                           

                                                                                          Thanks guys,
                                                                                             After rechecking my installation of the #5, I found a couple things
                                                                                          I could use your input on. I did find an under set coupler in my tray
                                                                                          but no idea what # it is. Checks out with the gage but still a little
                                                                                          low for the cars I was using. One thing I found was the older 12
                                                                                          wheeler tender rides a bit lower then the newer one. Is this normal?
                                                                                          The wheels are a couple thousands smaller but I don't think that would
                                                                                          cause it to ride that much lower. Your thoughts?
                                                                                          Bill


                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com , "Jerry Garteiser" <jerryg@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > It looks like #37 will do.  They are the underset shank ones.  JerryG.
                                                                                          >

                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >   _____ 
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ]
                                                                                          On Behalf
                                                                                          > Of takefive247
                                                                                          > Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 8:03 PM
                                                                                          > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > Subject: [vintageHO] Kadee & Mantua
                                                                                          >

                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > How do you pick the right Kadee couplers for the old (or any) Mantua
                                                                                          > tenders?  I have two of the 4-8-0, 12 wheelers I need to put couplers
                                                                                          > on. The height is way off with the #5's.  Are the offset couplers
                                                                                          > enough, and if so, what one?
                                                                                          > Thanks
                                                                                          > Bill
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >   _____ 
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                                          >

                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > *      Visit your group "vintageHO
                                                                                          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO> " on the web.
                                                                                          >  
                                                                                          > *      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                          >  vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > <mailto:vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                                                                                          >  
                                                                                          > *      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                                                                                          > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service.
                                                                                          >

                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >   _____
                                                                                          >






                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1242 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 3/24/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Kadee & Mantua
                                                                                          Bill,
                                                                                          The way those Mantua trucks are made is with a thinner piece of metal on top, joining both sides of the truck frames.  The hole for the mounting screw goes through this thinner piece on the top.  The trucks can actually be raised or lowered quite a bit by pinching them and pulling down, or pushing up on the side frames, which slightly bends that thinner top piece one way or the other, if you know what I mean here.  I've had models come in the shop with the back of the tender dragging, and easily raise it back to what it should be by doing this.  If the tenders are pushed down, the trucks will "give" and ride closer to the tracks as a result. 
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Hope this helps some.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Yardy
                                                                                           
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 9:00 PM
                                                                                          Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Kadee & Mantua

                                                                                          Bill-I think Mantua/Tyco used a bunch of different vendors (“lowest price”) for wheelsets.  I’ve seen 33” wheels, 36” wheels, deep flanges, deeper flanges (so the “kids” could run them at 200 mph without them coming off the track), and stuff that would run on Code 70 rail on their tender trucks.  The floor castings also seem to vary; some have the center spacer “pin” cast in so you just have to use a #2-56 screw to hold the trucks on; some others use the brass shouldered screw and a flat surface on the bolster.  And then there is the actual coupler mounting point, which has at least 3 variations (I have tenders with at least 3-they all are at different levels relative to the bottom of the shell casting).  So, it is really necessary to “trial and error” until it gets right.  The first thing I would do is get the wheelsets in the trucks that will run on your track without “riding the ties”.  Then play around with the couplers (regular, underset, shims, etc.) until it all checks out with your check gauge.  Just remember, Mantua has (had) been making these things for 70 years, so I would think the dies have been rebuilt/renewed many times  (there must be a half million Mike and Pacific tenders running around out there!!) .  The nice thing is that playing with the tender coupler is very easy.  The locomotive pilot is a different story!!    Good luck!    Regards,  JerryG.


                                                                                          From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of takefive247
                                                                                          Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 8:28 PM
                                                                                          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Kadee & Mantua

                                                                                          Thanks guys,
                                                                                             After rechecking my installation of the #5, I found a couple things
                                                                                          I could use your input on. I did find an under set coupler in my tray
                                                                                          but no idea what # it is. Checks out with the gage but still a little
                                                                                          low for the cars I was using. One thing I found was the older 12
                                                                                          wheeler tender rides a bit lower then the newer one. Is this normal?
                                                                                          The wheels are a couple thousands smaller but I don't think that would
                                                                                          cause it to ride that much lower. Your thoughts?
                                                                                          Bill


                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com , "Jerry Garteiser" <jerryg@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > It looks like #37 will do.  They are the underset shank ones.  JerryG.
                                                                                          >

                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >   _____ 
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ]
                                                                                          On Behalf
                                                                                          > Of takefive247
                                                                                          > Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 8:03 PM
                                                                                          > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > Subject: [vintageHO] Kadee & Mantua
                                                                                          >

                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > How do you pick the right Kadee couplers for the old (or any) Mantua
                                                                                          > tenders?  I have two of the 4-8-0, 12 wheelers I need to put couplers
                                                                                          > on. The height is way off with the #5's.  Are the offset couplers
                                                                                          > enough, and if so, what one?
                                                                                          > Thanks
                                                                                          > Bill
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >   _____ 
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                                          >

                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > *      Visit your group "vintageHO
                                                                                          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO> " on the web.
                                                                                          >  
                                                                                          > *      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                          >  vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > <mailto:vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                                                                                          >  
                                                                                          > *      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                                                                                          > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service.
                                                                                          >

                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >   _____
                                                                                          >






                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1243 From: Glenn Date: 3/24/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Kadee & Mantua
                                                                                          Kadee has only 3 "lengths"--standard--the #5, longer, and shorter.  Likewise with the heights.
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 6:27 PM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Kadee & Mantua

                                                                                          Thanks guys,
                                                                                             After rechecking my installation of the #5, I found a couple things
                                                                                          I could use your input on. I did find an under set coupler in my tray
                                                                                          but no idea what # it is. Checks out with the gage but still a little
                                                                                          low for the cars I was using. One thing I found was the older 12
                                                                                          wheeler tender rides a bit lower then the newer one. Is this normal?
                                                                                          The wheels are a couple thousands smaller but I don't think that would
                                                                                          cause it to ride that much lower. Your thoughts?
                                                                                          Bill


                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Garteiser" <jerryg@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > It looks like #37 will do.  They are the underset shank ones.  JerryG.
                                                                                          >

                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >   _____ 
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com]
                                                                                          On Behalf
                                                                                          > Of takefive247
                                                                                          > Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 8:03 PM
                                                                                          > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > Subject: [vintageHO] Kadee & Mantua
                                                                                          >

                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > How do you pick the right Kadee couplers for the old (or any) Mantua
                                                                                          > tenders?  I have two of the 4-8-0, 12 wheelers I need to put couplers
                                                                                          > on. The height is way off with the #5's.  Are the offset couplers
                                                                                          > enough, and if so, what one?
                                                                                          > Thanks
                                                                                          > Bill
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >   _____ 
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                                          >

                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > *      Visit your group "vintageHO
                                                                                          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO> " on the web.
                                                                                          >  
                                                                                          > *      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                          >  vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > <mailto:vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                                                                                          >  
                                                                                          > *      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                                                                                          > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service.
                                                                                          >

                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >   _____
                                                                                          >





                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1244 From: Phil Bostian Date: 3/25/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Kadee & Mantua
                                                                                          I would first check the Kadee website.  There is probably some online faqs or help.  Next, I believe you might be able to send them an email with your problem.  Finally, they sell a test kit which is one of each number coupler in each series, i.e. kit #13, and one for 20 series, 30 series, 40 series, etc.  Obviously, this can get a bit pricey, but might be the only way.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Of course, you can shim trucks and couplers to some degree.  I suspect each project may take a different solution.
                                                                                           
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Good luck,
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Phil Bostian
                                                                                           


                                                                                           
                                                                                          On 3/23/06, takefive247 <takefive@...> wrote:
                                                                                          How do you pick the right Kadee couplers for the old (or any) Mantua
                                                                                          tenders?  I have two of the 4-8-0, 12 wheelers I need to put couplers
                                                                                          on. The height is way off with the #5's.  Are the offset couplers
                                                                                          enough, and if so, what one?
                                                                                          Thanks
                                                                                          Bill






                                                                                          YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS




                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1245 From: takefive247 Date: 3/25/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Kadee & Mantua
                                                                                          Thanks Guys,
                                                                                          I really appreciate the input. So many times I have just put
                                                                                          things back on the shelf in frustration, and dream of the time I would
                                                                                          see it run. But you guys are a great group and this morning the old 12
                                                                                          wheeler made a semi successful trip around the Town Line loop and back
                                                                                          to the station. Thank you for the advice, the encouragement , and your
                                                                                          answers to my dumb questions.
                                                                                          Mark, I'm not to sure about that lip test for metal wheels :),
                                                                                          but I'll try anything once, Maybe twice. I won't be doing it in the
                                                                                          near future. Too many other engines to get running, and I have some
                                                                                          track problems. I looked at that Kadee page. I knew I had seen a list
                                                                                          before but couldn't find it. Thanks.
                                                                                          Lubrication is another issue. What do you think of the KD
                                                                                          grease-um or graphite for the trucks and engine wheels. I have seen a
                                                                                          lot of advice on oiling but I would think the oil would interfere with
                                                                                          the electrical pickup and collect grime.
                                                                                          Yardey, that was one of my problems. The rear was riding a tad
                                                                                          higher so the tender was on an angle. Swapped trucks and it changed
                                                                                          the coupler height.
                                                                                          So here is my next question. Why do my steam engines, all older
                                                                                          Mantua, (no offense to Mantua) , run better backwards? I've tried
                                                                                          moving the motor, motor spacers, different motors, lube, and bouncing
                                                                                          them on the floor. (Just kidding) But it seems I've tried everything
                                                                                          at one time or another, and seldom get them to run equally except able
                                                                                          in both directions. Had one Tank switcher running so good one time I
                                                                                          was afraid to touch it for fear I would screw it up. Think it's still
                                                                                          sitting in the display cabinet.
                                                                                          GerryD, " The nice thing is that playing with the tender coupler
                                                                                          is very easy." Easy for you to say :). "The locomotive pilot is a
                                                                                          different story!! " And that's another thing we will have to get
                                                                                          into. I have one old Mantua I looked high and low for a front coupler.
                                                                                          By the time I found one (I think), I had put the engine away. Now I
                                                                                          can't find the coupler.
                                                                                          By the way, I found another way to get those pesky knuckle springs
                                                                                          into the Kadee couplers. I let my wife do it.
                                                                                          Prolly should put this all in separate posts but I get to confused
                                                                                          figuring out who said what. Hope you guys don't mind.
                                                                                          I'll change the subject heading to ask some more questions.
                                                                                          Bill
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1246 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 3/25/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Kadee & Mantua

                                                                                          B ill-sounds like you are making progress!   I will suggest one thing, since you mention track problems.  One of my best investments was an NMRA track/wheel gauge.  You will be surprised at how many wheelsets are out of gauge, and cause derailments.  And the track gauge part does wonders in identifying problems in switches  (guard rails too tight,  one of the wing rails not properly bent, etc.).  I’ll bet 20% of the wheels of the “out of the box” kits I have purchased needed regauging. Now, the first thing I do when I buy a car (kit or R-T-R) is check the wheels.  So don’t get frustrated, get a gauge from your local hobby shop or NMRA!!!!!

                                                                                           

                                                                                          Yardy (Yardbird Trains) can help with the front coupler problem on some of your  Mantua engines.  He sells replacement pilots with the proper clearances for some locos (Mikes, Pacifics, and similar locos with the replaceable pilots) that easily accept KD 5’s and 148’s (the ones with the “whisker” spring).  That way you don’t have to mess with the flimsy plastic pilots that are frustrating to mess with.  Some engines (the tank engines and small switchers) you are stuck with; I have found the KD #148 is a pretty good solution. My older ones still have some #4’s just screwed on (no centering action).

                                                                                           

                                                                                          As to lubrication-there are a lot of opinions on this. Here is mine:  For locomotives (drivers/valve gear) I use LaBelle oils.  They are actually conductive. I also use a small drop on the tender trucks where the screw attaches the truck to the frame.  And for the gears I use their Teflon-bearing grease.  Seems to do a good job.  I only keep the plastic compatible stuff around (even for metal to metal surfaces).  Yes, oil does pick up some dust. So for the axles (cars, and the engine trailing, leading, and tender trucks at the journals) I do use Kadee Greas-Em (graphite).   A lot of guys claim Wahl hair clipper oil (available thru Micro-Mark) on the track improves conductivity; I agree, but the downside is that in the long haul it collects on the wheel treads and you end up with a mess that you need to clean off frequently (ESPECIALLY with plastic wheels!!).  I just use an abrasive track cleaning car now, and it seems to do OK.

                                                                                           

                                                                                          I can’t answer your question about why these engines seem to run better backward than forward.  My guess is that it has something to do with the worm/gear clearances, and the thrust that the motor is able to take better when running backward (look at the motor-nice bearing surface at the rear of the armature shaft, but not much in the way of thrust surface at the front.)  Guys, any answers to this????

                                                                                           

                                                                                          Don’t get frustrated-it will all come together!!  We all have had (and still do!!) these problems.  Just keep plugging one step at a time, and your reward will be there when the layout runs like a Class 1!       Regards,  Jerry G.

                                                                                           


                                                                                          From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of takefive247
                                                                                          Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 10:27 AM
                                                                                          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Kadee & Mantua

                                                                                           


                                                                                          Thanks Guys,
                                                                                              I really appreciate the input. So many times I have just put
                                                                                          things back on the shelf in frustration, and dream of the time I would
                                                                                          see it run. But you guys are a great group and this morning the old 12
                                                                                          wheeler made a semi successful trip around the Town Line loop and back
                                                                                          to the station. Thank you for the advice, the encouragement , and your
                                                                                          answers to my dumb questions.
                                                                                              Mark, I'm not to sure about that lip test for metal wheels  :),
                                                                                          but I'll try anything once, Maybe twice. I won't be doing it in the
                                                                                          near future. Too many other engines to get running, and I have some
                                                                                          track problems. I looked at that Kadee page. I knew I had seen a list
                                                                                          before but couldn't find it. Thanks.
                                                                                                    Lubrication is another issue. What do you think of the KD
                                                                                          grease-um or graphite for the trucks and engine wheels. I have seen a
                                                                                          lot of advice on oiling but I would think the oil would interfere with
                                                                                          the electrical pickup and collect grime.
                                                                                              Yardey, that was one of my problems. The rear was riding a tad
                                                                                          higher so the tender was on an angle. Swapped trucks and it changed
                                                                                          the coupler height.
                                                                                             So here is my next question. Why do my steam engines, all older
                                                                                          Mantua, (no offense to Mantua ) , run better backwards? I've tried
                                                                                          moving the motor, motor spacers, different motors, lube, and bouncing
                                                                                          them on the floor. (Just kidding) But it seems I've tried everything
                                                                                          at one time or another, and seldom get them to run equally except able
                                                                                          in both directions. Had one Tank switcher running so good one time I
                                                                                          was afraid to touch it for fear I would screw it up. Think it's still
                                                                                          sitting in the display cabinet.
                                                                                              GerryD, " The nice thing is that playing with the tender coupler
                                                                                          is very easy." Easy for you to say :).   "The locomotive pilot is a
                                                                                          different story!! "  And that's another thing we will have to get
                                                                                          into. I have one old Mantua I looked high and low for a front coupler.
                                                                                          By the time I found one (I think), I had put the engine away. Now I
                                                                                          can't find the coupler.   
                                                                                              By the way, I found another way to get those pesky knuckle springs
                                                                                          into the Kadee couplers. I let my wife do it.
                                                                                             Prolly should put this all in separate posts but I get to confused
                                                                                          figuring out who said what. Hope you guys don't mind.
                                                                                             I'll change the subject heading to ask some more questions. 
                                                                                          Bill 







                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1247 From: AL Date: 3/25/2006
                                                                                          Subject: old goodies at the club auction
                                                                                          Went to the local railroad club's annual member auction last night
                                                                                          ( was not even aware of it until asked at last minute if I was
                                                                                          going, lol ) .
                                                                                          scored a nice box of vintage HO, and a nice price at 40 bucks,
                                                                                          too :-) .

                                                                                          pretty rough items, but included an old Athearn Hustler ( runs but
                                                                                          needs bands, will be fixed today), various cars (Gilbert Reading
                                                                                          caboose, missing the lighting ,likely switched trucks - any info or
                                                                                          drawings,etc would be helpfull * please* :-)
                                                                                          couple Atheran 40 refrigerators in various stages of neglect, all
                                                                                          with sprung trucks, nice Ulrich drop-door gondola, but missing one
                                                                                          side :-(
                                                                                          however, the 'prizes' of the lot were two vintage stremers as
                                                                                          follows.

                                                                                          1- a Gilbert HO 0-6-0 , missing two wheelsets, but otherwise
                                                                                          appears complete, non running, so will have to see why.

                                                                                          2 - a John English Yardbird loco with original tender. :-)
                                                                                          this one is rough, it's set up , so will have to come apart and
                                                                                          be cleaned / rebuilt.
                                                                                          most of the brass details are intact ( bell missing - Yardbird ???).

                                                                                          anyways, not just to 'gloat' (lol), but looking for any info on the
                                                                                          Yardbird - allready checked yardy's site and no plans posted for
                                                                                          that one ( but it definatley is an English , mathces the pics,
                                                                                          etc ) .
                                                                                          will be dropping a line to Yardbird - or if you see this, please
                                                                                          send me info on what parts you repro ? ) .
                                                                                          I know the bell is mising, might be little parts.

                                                                                          Also, is this 12 volt as is ? ( any way to tell ), and what, if any
                                                                                          changes need made for use during the rebuild ?

                                                                                          thanks in advance for any help / advise.

                                                                                          ~ AL

                                                                                          (not lurking any more, lol )
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1248 From: Glenn Date: 3/25/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: old goodies at the club auction
                                                                                          John English was postwar, therefore 12 volt. 6 volt HO was before WWII.
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          From: AL
                                                                                          Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 10:19 AM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] old goodies at the club auction


                                                                                          Went to the local railroad club's annual member auction last night
                                                                                          ( was not even aware of it until asked at last minute if I was
                                                                                          going, lol ) .
                                                                                          scored a nice box of vintage HO, and a nice price at 40 bucks,
                                                                                          too :-) .

                                                                                          pretty rough items, but included an old Athearn Hustler ( runs but
                                                                                          needs bands, will be fixed today), various cars (Gilbert Reading
                                                                                          caboose, missing the lighting ,likely switched trucks - any info or
                                                                                          drawings,etc would be helpfull * please* :-)
                                                                                          couple Atheran 40 refrigerators in various stages of neglect, all
                                                                                          with sprung trucks, nice Ulrich drop-door gondola, but missing one
                                                                                          side :-(
                                                                                          however, the 'prizes' of the lot were two vintage stremers as
                                                                                          follows.

                                                                                          1- a Gilbert HO 0-6-0 , missing two wheelsets, but otherwise
                                                                                          appears complete, non running, so will have to see why.

                                                                                          2 - a John English Yardbird loco with original tender. :-)
                                                                                               this one is rough, it's set up , so will have to come apart and
                                                                                          be cleaned / rebuilt.
                                                                                          most of the brass details are intact ( bell missing - Yardbird ???).

                                                                                          anyways, not just to 'gloat' (lol), but looking for any info on the
                                                                                          Yardbird - allready checked yardy's site and no plans posted for
                                                                                          that one ( but it definatley is an English , mathces the pics,
                                                                                          etc ) .
                                                                                          will be dropping a line to Yardbird - or if you see this, please
                                                                                          send me info on what parts you repro ? ) .
                                                                                          I know the bell is mising, might be little parts.

                                                                                          Also, is this 12 volt as is ? ( any way to tell ), and what, if any
                                                                                          changes need made for use during the rebuild ?

                                                                                          thanks in advance for any help / advise.

                                                                                          ~ AL

                                                                                            (not lurking any more, lol )

                                                                                           



                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1249 From: takefive247 Date: 3/25/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: old goodies at the club auction
                                                                                          Glenn,
                                                                                          Would you want to expand on that? I have a couple Brass Mantua
                                                                                          engines I was wondering about. I know they used there old brass stock
                                                                                          after the war and mixed in die cast with the change over. They also
                                                                                          had a hand in the change to 12 volt motors. Did they ever use 6 volt
                                                                                          in there engines, or did they always use 12 volt? When did the change
                                                                                          to 12 volt start?
                                                                                          Bill

                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > John English was postwar, therefore 12 volt. 6 volt HO was before WWII.
                                                                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          > From: AL
                                                                                          > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 10:19 AM
                                                                                          > Subject: [vintageHO] old goodies at the club auction
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Went to the local railroad club's annual member auction last night
                                                                                          > ( was not even aware of it until asked at last minute if I was
                                                                                          > going, lol ) .
                                                                                          > scored a nice box of vintage HO, and a nice price at 40 bucks,
                                                                                          > too :-) .
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > pretty rough items, but included an old Athearn Hustler ( runs but
                                                                                          > needs bands, will be fixed today), various cars (Gilbert Reading
                                                                                          > caboose, missing the lighting ,likely switched trucks - any info or
                                                                                          > drawings,etc would be helpfull * please* :-)
                                                                                          > couple Atheran 40 refrigerators in various stages of neglect, all
                                                                                          > with sprung trucks, nice Ulrich drop-door gondola, but missing one
                                                                                          > side :-(
                                                                                          > however, the 'prizes' of the lot were two vintage stremers as
                                                                                          > follows.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > 1- a Gilbert HO 0-6-0 , missing two wheelsets, but otherwise
                                                                                          > appears complete, non running, so will have to see why.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > 2 - a John English Yardbird loco with original tender. :-)
                                                                                          > this one is rough, it's set up , so will have to come apart and
                                                                                          > be cleaned / rebuilt.
                                                                                          > most of the brass details are intact ( bell missing - Yardbird ???).
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > anyways, not just to 'gloat' (lol), but looking for any info on the
                                                                                          > Yardbird - allready checked yardy's site and no plans posted for
                                                                                          > that one ( but it definatley is an English , mathces the pics,
                                                                                          > etc ) .
                                                                                          > will be dropping a line to Yardbird - or if you see this, please
                                                                                          > send me info on what parts you repro ? ) .
                                                                                          > I know the bell is mising, might be little parts.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Also, is this 12 volt as is ? ( any way to tell ), and what, if any
                                                                                          > changes need made for use during the rebuild ?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > thanks in advance for any help / advise.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > ~ AL
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > (not lurking any more, lol )
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > SPONSORED LINKS Ho scale G scale model train G scale train
                                                                                          > Ho scale model train Ho scale trains
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                          > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > a.. Visit your group "vintageHO" on the web.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                          > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                          Service.
                                                                                          >
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                                                                                          >
                                                                                          ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1250 From: Glenn Date: 3/25/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: old goodies at the club auction
                                                                                          WWII marks the change-over.  HO was six volt motors before,but the trend was going toward 12 volts. since there was a complete halt in production during the war, it was easy to come back in the market with 12 volt motors.  Mantua had several locos in the mixed brass and zamak format pre-war--the Belle of the Eighties 4-4-0, the 8-ball mogul, the "Goat" 0-4-0 camelback., and Reading-prototype 4-4-2, 4-6-2, and 2-8-0.  I have seen catalog references to all but the 2-8-0 after the war.  Vars included a boxcar, reefer, hopper, gondola, tank car, all with a mix of sheet metal and die cast parts, with cardboard sides, and 4-wheel and 8-wheel cabooses.  They had three open-platform passenger cars as well. Postwar they added the "Busy Bee" 0-4-0T, which morphed into the all die cast "Booster", and the 0-4-0 "Mighty Mite" with conventional cab (actually this one had the die cast cab of the "Shifter" into which it morphed.)
                                                                                           
                                                                                          I have examples of all except the Atlantic--anyone got one to spare?
                                                                                          gj
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 5:40 PM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: old goodies at the club auction

                                                                                          Glenn,
                                                                                              Would you want to expand on that? I have a couple Brass Mantua
                                                                                          engines I was wondering about. I know they used there old brass stock
                                                                                          after the war and mixed in die cast with the change over. They also
                                                                                          had a hand in the change to 12 volt motors. Did they ever use 6 volt
                                                                                          in there engines, or did they always use 12 volt? When did the change
                                                                                          to 12 volt start?
                                                                                          Bill

                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > John English was postwar, therefore 12 volt. 6 volt HO was before WWII.
                                                                                          >   ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          >   From: AL
                                                                                          >   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          >   Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 10:19 AM
                                                                                          >   Subject: [vintageHO] old goodies at the club auction
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >   Went to the local railroad club's annual member auction last night
                                                                                          >   ( was not even aware of it until asked at last minute if I was
                                                                                          >   going, lol ) .
                                                                                          >   scored a nice box of vintage HO, and a nice price at 40 bucks,
                                                                                          >   too :-) .
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >   pretty rough items, but included an old Athearn Hustler ( runs but
                                                                                          >   needs bands, will be fixed today), various cars (Gilbert Reading
                                                                                          >   caboose, missing the lighting ,likely switched trucks - any info or
                                                                                          >   drawings,etc would be helpfull * please* :-)
                                                                                          >   couple Atheran 40 refrigerators in various stages of neglect, all
                                                                                          >   with sprung trucks, nice Ulrich drop-door gondola, but missing one
                                                                                          >   side :-(
                                                                                          >   however, the 'prizes' of the lot were two vintage stremers as
                                                                                          >   follows.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >   1- a Gilbert HO 0-6-0 , missing two wheelsets, but otherwise
                                                                                          >   appears complete, non running, so will have to see why.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >   2 - a John English Yardbird loco with original tender. :-)
                                                                                          >        this one is rough, it's set up , so will have to come apart and
                                                                                          >   be cleaned / rebuilt.
                                                                                          >   most of the brass details are intact ( bell missing - Yardbird ???).
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >   anyways, not just to 'gloat' (lol), but looking for any info on the
                                                                                          >   Yardbird - allready checked yardy's site and no plans posted for
                                                                                          >   that one ( but it definatley is an English , mathces the pics,
                                                                                          >   etc ) .
                                                                                          >   will be dropping a line to Yardbird - or if you see this, please
                                                                                          >   send me info on what parts you repro ? ) .
                                                                                          >   I know the bell is mising, might be little parts.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >   Also, is this 12 volt as is ? ( any way to tell ), and what, if any
                                                                                          >   changes need made for use during the rebuild ?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >   thanks in advance for any help / advise.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >   ~ AL
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >     (not lurking any more, lol )
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >    
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >   SPONSORED LINKS Ho scale  G scale model train  G scale train 
                                                                                          >         Ho scale model train  Ho scale trains 
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                          >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >     a..  Visit your group "vintageHO" on the web.
                                                                                          >      
                                                                                          >     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                          >      vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          >      
                                                                                          >     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                          Service.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                          >




                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1251 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 3/25/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Kadee & Mantua
                                                                                          Bill,
                                                                                          The locos running better in reverse (especially Mantua's) are normally related to the tender.  I know that could seem hard to believe, but 90% of the time, that's what we find the problem to be.  It is caused by the constant running in forward (obviously) and actually "glazing" over of the electrical contact area within the tender axle journals.  The axle points are always running in the same direction and so the glazing begins and slowly builds up in the same areas.  When the loco is reversed, the axle points are pushed into a different spot and make better connection.  Obviously, as the wear within the journals increase, this will show up more. 
                                                                                          We have a new page on our website called "Repair & Maintenance" and this problem is covered under "Servicing the Steam Loco Tender".  If you would like to check it out, the URL is  http://www.yardbirdtrains.com/YBRepairIndex.htm .
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Yardy
                                                                                           
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 11:16 AM
                                                                                          Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Kadee & Mantua

                                                                                          B ill-sounds like you are making progress!   I will suggest one thing, since you mention track problems.  One of my best investments was an NMRA track/wheel gauge.  You will be surprised at how many wheelsets are out of gauge, and cause derailments.  And the track gauge part does wonders in identifying problems in switches  (guard rails too tight,  one of the wing rails not properly bent, etc.).  I’ll bet 20% of the wheels of the “out of the box” kits I have purchased needed regauging. Now, the first thing I do when I buy a car (kit or R-T-R) is check the wheels.  So don’t get frustrated, get a gauge from your local hobby shop or NMRA!!!!!

                                                                                           

                                                                                          Yardy (Yardbird Trains) can help with the front coupler problem on some of your  Mantua engines.  He sells replacement pilots with the proper clearances for some locos (Mikes, Pacifics, and similar locos with the replaceable pilots) that easily accept KD 5’s and 148’s (the ones with the “whisker” spring).  That way you don’t have to mess with the flimsy plastic pilots that are frustrating to mess with.  Some engines (the tank engines and small switchers) you are stuck with; I have found the KD #148 is a pretty good solution. My older ones still have some #4’s just screwed on (no centering action).

                                                                                           

                                                                                          As to lubrication-there are a lot of opinions on this. Here is mine:  For locomotives (drivers/valve gear) I use LaBelle oils.  They are actually conductive. I also use a small drop on the tender trucks where the screw attaches the truck to the frame.  And for the gears I use their Teflon-bearing grease.  Seems to do a good job.  I only keep the plastic compatible stuff around (even for metal to metal surfaces).  Yes, oil does pick up some dust. So for the axles (cars, and the engine trailing, leading, and tender trucks at the journals) I do use Kadee Greas-Em (graphite).   A lot of guys claim Wahl hair clipper oil (available thru Micro-Mark) on the track improves conductivity; I agree, but the downside is that in the long haul it collects on the wheel treads and you end up with a mess that you need to clean off frequently (ESPECIALLY with plastic wheels!!).  I just use an abrasive track cleaning car now, and it seems to do OK.

                                                                                           

                                                                                          I can’t answer your question about why these engines seem to run better backward than forward.  My guess is that it has something to do with the worm/gear clearances, and the thrust that the motor is able to take better when running backward (look at the motor-nice bearing surface at the rear of the armature shaft, but not much in the way of thrust surface at the front.)  Guys, any answers to this????

                                                                                           

                                                                                          Don’t get frustrated-it will all come together!!  We all have had (and still do!!) these problems.  Just keep plugging one step at a time, and your reward will be there when the layout runs like a Class 1!       Regards,  Jerry G.

                                                                                           


                                                                                          From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of takefive247
                                                                                          Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 10:27 AM
                                                                                          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Kadee & Mantua

                                                                                           


                                                                                          Thanks Guys,
                                                                                              I really appreciate the input. So many times I have just put
                                                                                          things back on the shelf in frustration, and dream of the time I would
                                                                                          see it run. But you guys are a great group and this morning the old 12
                                                                                          wheeler made a semi successful trip around the Town Line loop and back
                                                                                          to the station. Thank you for the advice, the encouragement , and your
                                                                                          answers to my dumb questions.
                                                                                              Mark, I'm not to sure about that lip test for metal wheels  :),
                                                                                          but I'll try anything once, Maybe twice. I won't be doing it in the
                                                                                          near future. Too many other engines to get running, and I have some
                                                                                          track problems. I looked at that Kadee page. I knew I had seen a list
                                                                                          before but couldn't find it. Thanks.
                                                                                                    Lubrication is another issue. What do you think of the KD
                                                                                          grease-um or graphite for the trucks and engine wheels. I have seen a
                                                                                          lot of advice on oiling but I would think the oil would interfere with
                                                                                          the electrical pickup and collect grime.
                                                                                              Yardey, that was one of my problems. The rear was riding a tad
                                                                                          higher so the tender was on an angle. Swapped trucks and it changed
                                                                                          the coupler height.
                                                                                             So here is my next question. Why do my steam engines, all older
                                                                                          Mantua, (no offense to Mantua ) , run better backwards? I've tried
                                                                                          moving the motor, motor spacers, different motors, lube, and bouncing
                                                                                          them on the floor. (Just kidding) But it seems I've tried everything
                                                                                          at one time or another, and seldom get them to run equally except able
                                                                                          in both directions. Had one Tank switcher running so good one time I
                                                                                          was afraid to touch it for fear I would screw it up. Think it's still
                                                                                          sitting in the display cabinet.
                                                                                              GerryD, " The nice thing is that playing with the tender coupler
                                                                                          is very easy." Easy for you to say :).   "The locomotive pilot is a
                                                                                          different story!! "  And that's another thing we will have to get
                                                                                          into. I have one old Mantua I looked high and low for a front coupler.
                                                                                          By the time I found one (I think), I had put the engine away. Now I
                                                                                          can't find the coupler.   
                                                                                              By the way, I found another way to get those pesky knuckle springs
                                                                                          into the Kadee couplers. I let my wife do it.
                                                                                             Prolly should put this all in separate posts but I get to confused
                                                                                          figuring out who said what. Hope you guys don't mind.
                                                                                             I'll change the subject heading to ask some more questions. 
                                                                                          Bill 







                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1252 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 3/25/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: old goodies at the club auction
                                                                                          Great score Al.
                                                                                           I scored a few goodies at a show in Phoenix today.
                                                                                           A hand full of Varney plastic cars, A Hobbyline caboose and an early 60s Athearn geardrive F7A and dummy B unit in mint condition for $10. 
                                                                                           I also got an unbuilt Tyco 4-8-0 kit for $10. It is missing the pilot and one tender truck.
                                                                                           Shouldn't be to hard to find those parts. 

                                                                                          AL <Sailordoode@...> wrote:

                                                                                          Went to the local railroad club's annual member auction last night
                                                                                          ( was not even aware of it until asked at last minute if I was
                                                                                          going, lol ) .
                                                                                          scored a nice box of vintage HO, and a nice price at 40 bucks,
                                                                                          too :-) .

                                                                                          pretty rough items, but included an old Athearn Hustler ( runs but
                                                                                          needs bands, will be fixed today), various cars (Gilbert Reading
                                                                                          caboose, missing the lighting ,likely switched trucks - any info or
                                                                                          drawings,etc would be helpfull * please* :-)
                                                                                          couple Atheran 40 refrigerators in various stages of neglect, all
                                                                                          with sprung trucks, nice Ulrich drop-door gondola, but missing one
                                                                                          side :-(
                                                                                          however, the 'prizes' of the lot were two vintage stremers as
                                                                                          follows.

                                                                                          1- a Gilbert HO 0-6-0 , missing two wheelsets, but otherwise
                                                                                          appears complete, non running, so will have to see why.

                                                                                          2 - a John English Yardbird loco with original tender. :-)
                                                                                               this one is rough, it's set up , so will have to come apart and
                                                                                          be cleaned / rebuilt.
                                                                                          most of the brass details are intact ( bell missing - Yardbird ???).

                                                                                          anyways, not just to 'gloat' (lol), but looking for any info on the
                                                                                          Yardbird - allready checked yardy's site and no plans posted for
                                                                                          that one ( but it definatley is an English , mathces the pics,
                                                                                          etc ) .
                                                                                          will be dropping a line to Yardbird - or if you see this, please
                                                                                          send me info on what parts you repro ? ) .
                                                                                          I know the bell is mising, might be little parts.

                                                                                          Also, is this 12 volt as is ? ( any way to tell ), and what, if any
                                                                                          changes need made for use during the rebuild ?

                                                                                          thanks in advance for any help / advise.

                                                                                          ~ AL

                                                                                            (not lurking any more, lol )

                                                                                           







                                                                                          New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC for low, low rates.

                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1253 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/26/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Tyco-Mantuas reverse running kink
                                                                                          hmm...
                                                                                          speaking of the fabled reverse-running-performannce-improvement (no you
                                                                                          are not imagining things)...

                                                                                          i've noticed 2 separate issues that can affect direction-related engine
                                                                                          operation, both electrical in nature.

                                                                                          the most common is slight corrosion around the tender truck bolster
                                                                                          (the thin steel plate connecting the 2 zinc truck sideframes) and the
                                                                                          tender floor casting "king-pin" area.
                                                                                          aged zinc is notorious for cranky power conduction.
                                                                                          add a steel truck plate thats not kept super clean, you got issues.
                                                                                          running in reverse usually puts a tiny bit of lateral pressure on the
                                                                                          tender trucks and give an edge to the electrical pick-up properties.
                                                                                          i used to see this on my ol #1 a lot, until i worked the tender truck
                                                                                          bolsters over again, now it runs great in either direction.

                                                                                          another issue, but not seen as often, is degraded brush tension.
                                                                                          most brushes are set way too tight, acting like brake shoes on the
                                                                                          armature.
                                                                                          (this can really affect starting speed and low speed potential)
                                                                                          when brushes get too loose, the engine will tend to run sluggishly
                                                                                          until high voltage is applied, then run as usual.
                                                                                          the kink is that often brushes get a biased wear pattern, resulting in
                                                                                          inferiour contact in the usual (fwd) rotation, but when reveresed, the
                                                                                          oposite effect occurs, as the counter-(usual)-rotation of the armature
                                                                                          presents a new surface tension to the commutator surface.
                                                                                          however this is a relatively rare situation, and with most Mantua-Tyco
                                                                                          models, you will usual find the begrimed tender truck bolsters are the
                                                                                          culprit.
                                                                                          with the Pax and Mikes having full zinc truck frames, even more
                                                                                          corrosion may occur.

                                                                                          i keep a soft brass (wire) brush handy to polish off the offending area
                                                                                          every so often.
                                                                                          all else being equal, that should solve the problem immediately.

                                                                                          ...
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1254 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/26/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Tyco-Mantuas reverse running kink
                                                                                          eh, since i'm being encyclopaedic, i should mention, the area to
                                                                                          maintain is BETWEEN the truck bolster and kingpin, not the truck
                                                                                          underside.
                                                                                          so the truck will need to be removed to reach the king-pin/ bolster
                                                                                          contact area.

                                                                                          if corrosion is significant, use a steel brush instead of brass, or a
                                                                                          dull hobby blade or tiny flat screwdriver to lightly scrape down to
                                                                                          bare metal around the king-pin; be careful not to remove too much metal!
                                                                                          at the same time, wire-brush or lightly sand-paper the exposed TOP of
                                                                                          the truck bolster or cross-plate.
                                                                                          a tiny dab of light oil will ward off future corrosion.

                                                                                          Yardy also has a good observation about the axle points being a
                                                                                          possible issue.
                                                                                          often when the truck sideframes have been "splayed out", the axle
                                                                                          points lose their contact integrity.
                                                                                          try squeezing the frames back together to reduce any endwise axle slop.
                                                                                          this may alter the frame height slightly, but its better to have tight
                                                                                          axles and compensate coupler height by other means such as washers or
                                                                                          alter-set couplers.
                                                                                          you can also work the steel plate in either direction to provide other
                                                                                          height adjustments.

                                                                                          ...


                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > i keep a soft brass (wire) brush handy to polish off the offending
                                                                                          area
                                                                                          > every so often.
                                                                                          > all else being equal, that should solve the problem immediately.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > ...
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1255 From: takefive247 Date: 3/26/2006
                                                                                          Subject: 6volt vs 12volt
                                                                                          How do you tell the difference between the two? Mantua in particular.
                                                                                          Bill
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1256 From: UptownVideo@juno.com Date: 3/26/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Remove foam damage from painted models
                                                                                          Chris,

                                                                                          Thanks for the info on foam removable on a brass engine....I will try
                                                                                          it...

                                                                                          Phil.....
                                                                                          On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 22:00:27 -0000 "dinky2353" <chbraig@...>
                                                                                          writes:
                                                                                          > Try simply brushing the foam off the model with a 3 or 4 inch paint
                                                                                          > brush (the kind you would paint woodwork with). Start off gently
                                                                                          > and
                                                                                          > use only as firm a hand as you need to gradually erode the foam
                                                                                          > particles away. Be careful around the attached details but you can
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > work the bristles in and around them. Depending on the original
                                                                                          > paint
                                                                                          > there may be a little etching left in the finish but a drop of light
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > oil on a cotton swab will remove any residue and clean up the
                                                                                          > finish.
                                                                                          > This has worked for me.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Chris
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1257 From: Don Rowland Date: 3/26/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: old goodies at the club auction
                                                                                          NO, but I have two Roundhouse 0-6-0 switchers. One is all zemak and
                                                                                          the other has a brass, 4 part, cab and boiler.

                                                                                          Don
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1258 From: takefive247 Date: 3/26/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Help identify
                                                                                          Hey Glenn,
                                                                                          I have two Mantua engines I would like some info on. I put a picture
                                                                                          in the photo section in Bill's Mantua. The Bell of the Eighties on the
                                                                                          bottom, I thought would have been built after the war because of the
                                                                                          cast tender. You suggest it could have been before the war. Do you,
                                                                                          or anyone, know when, or if, it was changed to all die cast? On the
                                                                                          top is "What"? I thought was a "Bell". General mechanism and cab but
                                                                                          straight tube boiler. Kit bash or true Mantua??
                                                                                          Thanks
                                                                                          Bill
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1259 From: takefive247 Date: 3/26/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Tyco-Mantuas reverse running kink
                                                                                          Thanks Guys,
                                                                                          I had done everything you said except the axle journals and oil. Used
                                                                                          grease -um. Would that make it worse?
                                                                                          Bill
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1260 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 3/26/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Tyco-Mantuas reverse running kink
                                                                                          Grease isn't good for axle point lubrication (holds accumulated crud).  You want a light oil and a very small amount of it.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Labelle is one of the brands that model railroaders use.  You should be able to get their products in a local hobby shop.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Here is a page from Con-Cor showing the various choices and even some kits of lubricants.
                                                                                           
                                                                                           
                                                                                          There are probably too many choices.  I recommend #108 for axle points and such.  But #107 would also be fine.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          "Hob-E-Lube" is another brand of lubricants you might find in a hobby shop.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Chuck Kinzer
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 12:32 PM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Tyco-Mantuas reverse running kink

                                                                                          Thanks Guys,
                                                                                          I had done everything you said except the axle journals and oil. Used
                                                                                          grease -um. Would that make it worse?
                                                                                          Bill

                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1261 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 3/26/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Some vintage recollections are in April 2006 RMC
                                                                                          The April, 2006 Railroad Model Craftsman had a lot of reminiscing in the editorial "Notes on an old timetable" by Hal Carstens.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Perhaps a few of you don't know that Hal Carstens has been a publisher ( http://www.carstens-publications.com/ ) and voice for this hobby since almost forever.  He wrote the book "150 Years of Train Models" which has a lot of focus on early pioneers like Lobaugh, Walthers, Varney, and Howell Day.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          His editorial beguns with "Howell Day was probably the last of the pioneer HO scale model railroad manufacturers of the early to mid- 1930 era with his famous Red Ball line."  It goes on to say that Howell Day recently passed away at age 99. and then gives a brief history of various manufacturers and their kits.  He mentions the kits of Howell Day, Megow, Walthers, Varney, Laconia, Charlen, Mantua, Gilbert, Noertheastern, Ambroid, and Quality Craft Models. He said that Ambroid's Lee Blyler told him that some of the 1 in 5000 series were made in quanitities of 8,000.  Interesting.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          The "Collector consist" article this month is "1950 - how sweet it was".  It mentions how things picked up after the war and mentions Varney, HP products, Winton, Walthers, and others.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          I have gotten both MR and RMC (both very good magazines) for many years.  I always felt MR was a little more slick, sleek, commercial, and future focused.  Where RMC seemed to have a more casual and friendly tone, does some reminiscing, and somewhat misses the old days.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          I met Hal Carstens a few years back at an NMRA convention a few years back and it confirmed what I think I already knew.  He is very warm, friendly, loves the hobby, and appreciates the pioneers.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Chuck Kinzer
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1262 From: takefive247 Date: 3/26/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Tyco-Mantuas reverse running kink
                                                                                          Thanks Chuck,
                                                                                          Grease-um is not really grease, I don't think. I was talking about the
                                                                                          Kadee grease-um for couplers. Sorry I didn't make that clear.
                                                                                          Bill


                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Charles E. Kinzer" <ckinzer@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Grease isn't good for axle point lubrication (holds accumulated
                                                                                          crud). You want a light oil and a very small amount of it.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Labelle is one of the brands that model railroaders use. You should
                                                                                          be able to get their products in a local hobby shop.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Here is a page from Con-Cor showing the various choices and even
                                                                                          some kits of lubricants.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > http://www.all-railroads.com/lablubes.htm
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > There are probably too many choices. I recommend #108 for axle
                                                                                          points and such. But #107 would also be fine.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > "Hob-E-Lube" is another brand of lubricants you might find in a
                                                                                          hobby shop.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Chuck Kinzer
                                                                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          > From: takefive247
                                                                                          > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 12:32 PM
                                                                                          > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Tyco-Mantuas reverse running kink
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Thanks Guys,
                                                                                          > I had done everything you said except the axle journals and oil. Used
                                                                                          > grease -um. Would that make it worse?
                                                                                          > Bill
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1263 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 3/26/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Tyco-Mantuas reverse running kink
                                                                                          I think Kadee Grease-Em would be fine for journals.  There are those that use it.  But the graphite is conductive.  So it would be a good idea to keep it off places that must insulate.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Chuck Kinzer
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 2:00 PM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Tyco-Mantuas reverse running kink

                                                                                          Thanks Chuck,
                                                                                          Grease-um is not really grease, I don't think. I was talking about the
                                                                                          Kadee grease-um for couplers. Sorry I didn't make that clear.
                                                                                          Bill


                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1264 From: takefive247 Date: 3/26/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Kadee spring pic
                                                                                          JerryD,
                                                                                          Did you ever find that Kadee spring pic tool? The number is a 235 and
                                                                                          I am sure I've seen them at shows. Works pretty good. Let me know if
                                                                                          you still want one and I'll look. May even have an extra one if I look
                                                                                          hard enough.
                                                                                          Bill
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1265 From: Glenn Date: 3/26/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: old goodies at the club auction
                                                                                          does that Athearn have an all die-cast drive, with oilite bearings throughout, and a bit squarish motor? If so it may go back into the fifties.  Later Olympic Extress brought out a copy of that Athearn drive.  Other than the Hobbytown, I don't think any other drive could beat it.
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 7:54 PM
                                                                                          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] old goodies at the club auction

                                                                                          Great score Al.
                                                                                           I scored a few goodies at a show in Phoenix today.
                                                                                           A hand full of Varney plastic cars, A Hobbyline caboose and an early 60s Athearn geardrive F7A and dummy B unit in mint condition for $10. 
                                                                                           I also got an unbuilt Tyco 4-8-0 kit for $10. It is missing the pilot and one tender truck.
                                                                                           Shouldn't be to hard to find those parts. 

                                                                                          AL <Sailordoode@...> wrote:

                                                                                          Went to the local railroad club's annual member auction last night
                                                                                          ( was not even aware of it until asked at last minute if I was
                                                                                          going, lol ) .
                                                                                          scored a nice box of vintage HO, and a nice price at 40 bucks,
                                                                                          too :-) .

                                                                                          pretty rough items, but included an old Athearn Hustler ( runs but
                                                                                          needs bands, will be fixed today), various cars (Gilbert Reading
                                                                                          caboose, missing the lighting ,likely switched trucks - any info or
                                                                                          drawings,etc would be helpfull * please* :-)
                                                                                          couple Atheran 40 refrigerators in various stages of neglect, all
                                                                                          with sprung trucks, nice Ulrich drop-door gondola, but missing one
                                                                                          side :-(
                                                                                          however, the 'prizes' of the lot were two vintage stremers as
                                                                                          follows.

                                                                                          1- a Gilbert HO 0-6-0 , missing two wheelsets, but otherwise
                                                                                          appears complete, non running, so will have to see why.

                                                                                          2 - a John English Yardbird loco with original tender. :-)
                                                                                               this one is rough, it's set up , so will have to come apart and
                                                                                          be cleaned / rebuilt.
                                                                                          most of the brass details are intact ( bell missing - Yardbird ???).

                                                                                          anyways, not just to 'gloat' (lol), but looking for any info on the
                                                                                          Yardbird - allready checked yardy's site and no plans posted for
                                                                                          that one ( but it definatley is an English , mathces the pics,
                                                                                          etc ) .
                                                                                          will be dropping a line to Yardbird - or if you see this, please
                                                                                          send me info on what parts you repro ? ) .
                                                                                          I know the bell is mising, might be little parts.

                                                                                          Also, is this 12 volt as is ? ( any way to tell ), and what, if any
                                                                                          changes need made for use during the rebuild ?

                                                                                          thanks in advance for any help / advise.

                                                                                          ~ AL

                                                                                            (not lurking any more, lol )

                                                                                           







                                                                                          New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC for low, low rates.

                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1266 From: Glenn Date: 3/26/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: 6volt vs 12volt
                                                                                          apply power slowly, preferably with a meter in the circuit--watch where it starts and where it is running at normal speed--
                                                                                           
                                                                                          however, I would think that the chances of encountering a 6-volt motor are slim--since most probably got replaced in the immediate post-war period when replacements came available.
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 7:16 AM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] 6volt vs 12volt

                                                                                          How do you tell the difference between the two? Mantua in particular.
                                                                                          Bill



                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1267 From: Glenn Date: 3/26/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: old goodies at the club auction
                                                                                          don't know what the "no"was to--I wonder about the brass boiler on an MDC--is it a cast boiler?  I have an MDC 0-6-0 kit that I can positively date from mid 1948--the box label is one address, the instruction sheet has another--the move occurried in 48--anyhow--it has a 5-piece cab--where the later ones have it in one piece. Kit is untouched--I have a later one that I run.
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 11:12 AM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: old goodies at the club auction

                                                                                          NO, but I have two Roundhouse 0-6-0 switchers.  One is all zemak and
                                                                                          the other has a brass, 4 part, cab and boiler.

                                                                                          Don



                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1268 From: takefive247 Date: 3/26/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: 6volt vs 12volt
                                                                                          Good point on the probability factor. I'll have to try it. Are all of
                                                                                          yours 12 volt?
                                                                                          Bill


                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > apply power slowly, preferably with a meter in the circuit--watch
                                                                                          where it starts and where it is running at normal speed--
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > however, I would think that the chances of encountering a 6-volt
                                                                                          motor are slim--since most probably got replaced in the immediate
                                                                                          post-war period when replacements came available.
                                                                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          > From: takefive247
                                                                                          > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 7:16 AM
                                                                                          > Subject: [vintageHO] 6volt vs 12volt
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > How do you tell the difference between the two? Mantua in particular.
                                                                                          > Bill
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                          > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > a.. Visit your group "vintageHO" on the web.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                          > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                          Service.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1269 From: Glenn Date: 3/26/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Help identify
                                                                                          OK--the bottom one is deffinitely a "Belle"--as issued. The upper one looks like a kitbash of a "General"--Cary (or somebody) had a conversion boiler to make it a later loco. As far as I recall the Mantua tenders ere always die cast.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Interesting photo of the Aerotrain--I have one with 8 cars, added floors and tinted windows--and Kemtron trucks. Have 2 locos, different drives.
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 12:08 PM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Help identify

                                                                                          Hey Glenn,
                                                                                          I have two Mantua engines I would like some info on. I put a picture
                                                                                          in the photo section in Bill's Mantua. The Bell of the Eighties on the
                                                                                          bottom, I thought would have been built after the war because of the
                                                                                          cast tender. You  suggest it could have been before the war. Do you,
                                                                                          or anyone, know when, or if, it was changed to all die cast? On the
                                                                                          top is "What"? I thought was a "Bell". General mechanism and cab but
                                                                                          straight tube boiler. Kit bash or true Mantua??
                                                                                          Thanks
                                                                                          Bill




                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1270 From: Glenn Date: 3/26/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Tyco-Mantuas reverse running kink
                                                                                          might improve things--that's graphite, and a good conductor.
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 12:32 PM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Tyco-Mantuas reverse running kink

                                                                                          Thanks Guys,
                                                                                          I had done everything you said except the axle journals and oil. Used
                                                                                          grease -um. Would that make it worse?
                                                                                          Bill






                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1271 From: Glenn Date: 3/26/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Tyco-Mantuas reverse running kink
                                                                                          What 247 refers to sounds like Kadee's "Greas'em"--a powdered graphite that is an excellent conductive lube.
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 1:02 PM
                                                                                          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Tyco-Mantuas reverse running kink

                                                                                          Grease isn't good for axle point lubrication (holds accumulated crud).  You want a light oil and a very small amount of it.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Labelle is one of the brands that model railroaders use.  You should be able to get their products in a local hobby shop.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Here is a page from Con-Cor showing the various choices and even some kits of lubricants.
                                                                                           
                                                                                           
                                                                                          There are probably too many choices.  I recommend #108 for axle points and such.  But #107 would also be fine.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          "Hob-E-Lube" is another brand of lubricants you might find in a hobby shop.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Chuck Kinzer
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 12:32 PM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Tyco-Mantuas reverse running kink

                                                                                          Thanks Guys,
                                                                                          I had done everything you said except the axle journals and oil. Used
                                                                                          grease -um. Would that make it worse?
                                                                                          Bill

                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1272 From: Glenn Date: 3/26/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: 6volt vs 12volt
                                                                                          yes--my mantuas arre all 12-volt--including the Pacific and Consolidation built by the late Richard Stokes--and they were pre-war locos. I don't know much about them as I never saw them while he was alive--but they turned up in his estate.
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 4:50 PM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: 6volt vs 12volt

                                                                                          Good point on the probability factor. I'll have to try it. Are all of
                                                                                          yours 12 volt?
                                                                                          Bill


                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > apply power slowly, preferably with a meter in the circuit--watch
                                                                                          where it starts and where it is running at normal speed--
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > however, I would think that the chances of encountering a 6-volt
                                                                                          motor are slim--since most probably got replaced in the immediate
                                                                                          post-war period when replacements came available.
                                                                                          >   ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          >   From: takefive247
                                                                                          >   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          >   Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 7:16 AM
                                                                                          >   Subject: [vintageHO] 6volt vs 12volt
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >   How do you tell the difference between the two? Mantua in particular.
                                                                                          >   Bill
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                          >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >     a..  Visit your group "vintageHO" on the web.
                                                                                          >      
                                                                                          >     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                          >      vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          >      
                                                                                          >     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                          Service.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                          >





                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1273 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 3/26/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: old goodies at the club auction
                                                                                          Glenn,
                                                                                            This is the next gear drive that Athearn  used (I think).
                                                                                           Same basic design but plastic gear box.  The motor looks like the Hi-F motor mounted upside down.
                                                                                          I would like to find one of the drives you refered to.

                                                                                          Glenn <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                          does that Athearn have an all die-cast drive, with oilite bearings throughout, and a bit squarish motor? If so it may go back into the fifties.  Later Olympic Extress brought out a copy of that Athearn drive.  Other than the Hobbytown, I don't think any other drive could beat it.
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 7:54 PM
                                                                                          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] old goodies at the club auction

                                                                                          Great score Al.
                                                                                           I scored a few goodies at a show in Phoenix today.
                                                                                           A hand full of Varney plastic cars, A Hobbyline caboose and an early 60s Athearn geardrive F7A and dummy B unit in mint condition for $10. 
                                                                                           I also got an unbuilt Tyco 4-8-0 kit for $10. It is missing the pilot and one tender truck.
                                                                                           Shouldn't be to hard to find those parts. 

                                                                                          AL <Sailordoode@...> wrote:

                                                                                          Went to the local railroad club's annual member auction last night
                                                                                          ( was not even aware of it until asked at last minute if I was
                                                                                          going, lol ) .
                                                                                          scored a nice box of vintage HO, and a nice price at 40 bucks,
                                                                                          too :-) .

                                                                                          pretty rough items, but included an old Athearn Hustler ( runs but
                                                                                          needs bands, will be fixed today), various cars (Gilbert Reading
                                                                                          caboose, missing the lighting ,likely switched trucks - any info or
                                                                                          drawings,etc would be helpfull * please* :-)
                                                                                          couple Atheran 40 refrigerators in various stages of neglect, all
                                                                                          with sprung trucks, nice Ulrich drop-door gondola, but missing one
                                                                                          side :-(
                                                                                          however, the 'prizes' of the lot were two vintage stremers as
                                                                                          follows.

                                                                                          1- a Gilbert HO 0-6-0 , missing two wheelsets, but otherwise
                                                                                          appears complete, non running, so will have to see why.

                                                                                          2 - a John English Yardbird loco with original tender. :-)
                                                                                               this one is rough, it's set up , so will have to come apart and
                                                                                          be cleaned / rebuilt.
                                                                                          most of the brass details are intact ( bell missing - Yardbird ???).

                                                                                          anyways, not just to 'gloat' (lol), but looking for any info on the
                                                                                          Yardbird - allready checked yardy's site and no plans posted for
                                                                                          that one ( but it definatley is an English , mathces the pics,
                                                                                          etc ) .
                                                                                          will be dropping a line to Yardbird - or if you see this, please
                                                                                          send me info on what parts you repro ? ) .
                                                                                          I know the bell is mising, might be little parts.

                                                                                          Also, is this 12 volt as is ? ( any way to tell ), and what, if any
                                                                                          changes need made for use during the rebuild ?

                                                                                          thanks in advance for any help / advise.

                                                                                          ~ AL

                                                                                            (not lurking any more, lol )

                                                                                           







                                                                                          New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC for low, low rates.




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                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1274 From: Gerry D Date: 3/26/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Kadee spring pic
                                                                                          Ya' Know Bill, I'd be very glad if you found one. I'd
                                                                                          be happy to pay postage and costs.

                                                                                          Cordially,
                                                                                          Gerry D
                                                                                          http://kitbash.ourpage.org

                                                                                          --- takefive247 <takefive@...> wrote:

                                                                                          > JerryD,
                                                                                          > Did you ever find that Kadee spring pic tool? The
                                                                                          > number is a 235 and
                                                                                          > I am sure I've seen them at shows. Works pretty
                                                                                          > good. Let me know if
                                                                                          > you still want one and I'll look. May even have an
                                                                                          > extra one if I look
                                                                                          > hard enough.
                                                                                          > Bill
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >


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                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1275 From: Garrett W. Rea Date: 3/27/2006
                                                                                          Subject: A question from a new member, GHC Atlantics and Bowser/Penn Line
                                                                                          All:

                                                                                          Is anyone familar with GHC locos, especially the CN&W Atlantic? There
                                                                                          were two on eBay that sold tonite. They look nice, but how about
                                                                                          running quality?

                                                                                          Now, for a bit of irony. I just bought a nice Penn Line/Bowser E6s
                                                                                          Atlantic from a guy at a show. His late father had built it years ago
                                                                                          and added several details. It runs like a watch, even better now with
                                                                                          a light lube. While I was looking at this and some other models,
                                                                                          another guy that was watching the table was going on and on (and on
                                                                                          until I said something that stopped the comments) about how these old
                                                                                          locos had no DCC or sound and were not as nice as the "new slick units
                                                                                          from China".

                                                                                          Thanks for any replies-

                                                                                          Garrett Rea
                                                                                          Nashville, TN
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1276 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/27/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: A question from a new member, GHC Atlantics and Bowser/Penn Line
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          From: Garrett W. Rea <Garrett.Rea@...>
                                                                                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                          Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 8:30 PM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] A question from a new member, GHC Atlantics and
                                                                                          Bowser/Penn Line


                                                                                          > All:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Is anyone familar with GHC locos, especially the CN&W Atlantic? There
                                                                                          > were two on eBay that sold tonite. They look nice, but how about
                                                                                          > running quality?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Now, for a bit of irony. I just bought a nice Penn Line/Bowser E6s
                                                                                          > Atlantic from a guy at a show. His late father had built it years ago
                                                                                          > and added several details. It runs like a watch, even better now with
                                                                                          > a light lube. While I was looking at this and some other models,
                                                                                          > another guy that was watching the table was going on and on (and on
                                                                                          > until I said something that stopped the comments) about how these old
                                                                                          > locos had no DCC or sound and were not as nice as the "new slick units
                                                                                          > from China".
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Thanks for any replies-
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Garrett Rea
                                                                                          > Nashville, TN

                                                                                          I don't know that particular loco, but it probably runs as well as any from
                                                                                          that era. The biggest thing to worry about in die casts of that age is
                                                                                          "lead rot". A number of the Aristo-Craft locos came from the same maker,
                                                                                          and often are quite brittle today. I didn't look at it, but in googling the
                                                                                          unit I noticed "Jay's Trains" has one "as is" for $16.00. Wonder what kind
                                                                                          of shape it's in.

                                                                                          As far as the "new slick units from China", the best point to make is that
                                                                                          if they're run, 5 years from now your Penn-Line unit will still be running
                                                                                          while his will be a very expensive paperweight because some tiny plastic
                                                                                          part broke inside and he can't get a part to fix it.

                                                                                          Don

                                                                                          don.dellmann@...
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                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1277 From: Bill Daley Date: 3/27/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: A question from a new member, GHC Atlantics and Bowser/Penn Line
                                                                                          "Garrett W. Rea" <Garrett.Rea@...> wrote:
                                                                                          All:

                                                                                          Is anyone familar with GHC locos, especially the CN&W Atlantic?  There
                                                                                          were two on eBay that sold tonite.  They look nice, but how about
                                                                                          running quality?

                                                                                          Garrett,
                                                                                          I bought one of those C&NW class D Altantics back in the early '60s (for $10, brand new).  It ran well and pulled 6 passenger cars easily around the club layout. 
                                                                                           
                                                                                          About 10 years ago, it got the "rot" as Don Dellman noted. The pilot went to powder, so I fabricated a new one from brass, and then the drivers cracked and the threaded studs fell out. (The side rods and main rods were held on by nuts threaded onto those studs.) Just a few years ago, the mainroads broke. Drivers from Bowser and some hand made main rods got it running (on a test stand), and then the club went to DCC. so it still sits.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          I fabricated a new pilot for another one owned by a fellow club member. It ran well at the club, but the member is now deceased and said loco needs a Decoder to run.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          If you buy one, enter into the transaction with your eyes wide open. Insist that the loco is complete and runnable, or walk away!
                                                                                           
                                                                                          retired grouch  











                                                                                          New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.

                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1278 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 3/27/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Tyco-Mantuas reverse running kink
                                                                                          Bill,
                                                                                          Many times I check to see if the tender axles are the culprit with the reverse problem by applying a few drops of electrical contact spray in each journal.  If that was the problem, you'll see improvement immediately.  It also has a small amount of lubrication ability to it, but not enough for spinning axles, so after using and running to clean the contacts, I put in a tiny drop of fine oil as some others have mentioned here.  The key there is "tiny".  We do dozens of locos each month like this and have yet to see a returned one (knock on wood). 
                                                                                            
                                                                                          Yardy 
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          From: Glenn
                                                                                          Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 6:59 PM
                                                                                          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Tyco-Mantuas reverse running kink

                                                                                          might improve things--that's graphite, and a good conductor.
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 12:32 PM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Tyco-Mantuas reverse running kink

                                                                                          Thanks Guys,
                                                                                          I had done everything you said except the axle journals and oil. Used
                                                                                          grease -um. Would that make it worse?
                                                                                          Bill






                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1279 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 3/27/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: A question from a new member, GHC Atlantics and Bowser/Penn Line

                                                                                          Just watch this guy and his “new slick unit from China ” when it doesn’t run anymore.  Take one apart (you’re lucky if you don’t break something) and then try and get it back together.  Ain’t no three screws that hold the boiler to the mechanism. . . .     JerryG.

                                                                                           


                                                                                          From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Garrett W. Rea
                                                                                          Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 8:31 PM
                                                                                          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] A question from a new member, GHC Atlantics and Bowser/Penn Line

                                                                                           

                                                                                          All:

                                                                                          Is anyone familar with GHC locos, especially the CN&W Atlantic?  There
                                                                                          were two on eBay that sold tonite.  They look nice, but how about
                                                                                          running quality?

                                                                                          Now, for a bit of irony.  I just bought a nice Penn Line/Bowser E6s
                                                                                          Atlantic from a guy at a show.  His late father had built it years ago
                                                                                          and added several details.  It runs like a watch, even better now with
                                                                                          a light lube.  While I was looking at this and some other models,
                                                                                          another guy that was watching the table was going on and on (and on
                                                                                          until I said something that stopped the comments) about how these old
                                                                                          locos had no DCC or sound and were not as nice as the "new slick units
                                                                                          from China". 

                                                                                          Thanks for any replies-

                                                                                          Garrett Rea
                                                                                          Nashville, TN










                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1280 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/27/2006
                                                                                          Subject: re, da sleeper @ da next table
                                                                                          Garrett writes:
                                                                                          another guy that was watching the table was going on and on (and on
                                                                                          until I said something that stopped the comments) about how these old
                                                                                          locos had no DCC or sound and were not as nice as the "new slick units
                                                                                          from China".

                                                                                          da imp sez,
                                                                                          waddya wanna bet that guy had just dropped a bundle on some China Doll.?
                                                                                          or, he could be a "distributor" schill.

                                                                                          i trust you put him in his place!

                                                                                          heheheh

                                                                                          ...
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1281 From: Garrett W. Rea Date: 3/27/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: A question from a new member, GHC Atlantics and Bowser/Penn Line
                                                                                          > I don't know that particular loco, but it probably runs as well as
                                                                                          any from
                                                                                          > that era. The biggest thing to worry about in die casts of that
                                                                                          age is
                                                                                          > "lead rot". A number of the Aristo-Craft locos came from the same
                                                                                          maker,
                                                                                          > and often are quite brittle today.

                                                                                          OK, thanks, one auction listed it as die cast, the other as brass. I
                                                                                          have seen the rot you mention in Aristo stuff my father had.

                                                                                          > As far as the "new slick units from China", the best point to make
                                                                                          is that
                                                                                          > if they're run, 5 years from now your Penn-Line unit will still be
                                                                                          running
                                                                                          > while his will be a very expensive paperweight because some tiny
                                                                                          plastic
                                                                                          > part broke inside and he can't get a part to fix it.

                                                                                          Very true, but what got the guy quiet was when the running/pulling
                                                                                          capabilities were discussed between old and new engines.

                                                                                          Thanks for the replies on the Atlantic.

                                                                                          Garrett Rea
                                                                                          Nashville, TN
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1282 From: Garrett W. Rea Date: 3/27/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: re, da sleeper @ da next table
                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Imp Ster" <iimpster@...> wrote:
                                                                                          > da imp sez,
                                                                                          > waddya wanna bet that guy had just dropped a bundle on some China
                                                                                          Doll.?
                                                                                          > or, he could be a "distributor" schill.

                                                                                          Nah, I think he honestly thought he was being constructive/helpful.

                                                                                          > i trust you put him in his place!
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > heheheh

                                                                                          Yeah, pretty much, when I got the nice E6s for less than most "RTR"
                                                                                          freight cars from China these days.

                                                                                          Of course, the LaBelle HO-1 coach kit I had banged out in a week that
                                                                                          I had under my other arm (to show to a freind) really blew their
                                                                                          minds. The other guy admited he had some he has had for
                                                                                          years.......unbuilt.

                                                                                          Garrett Rea
                                                                                          Nashville, TN
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1283 From: frank Date: 3/27/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Help identify
                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                          > The cary boiler for the general drive was call the Pittsburg
                                                                                          boiler. It also fit the AHM 4-4-0 drives. That is not the cary
                                                                                          boiler. It is to stright. Most likely kit bashed.
                                                                                          frank o toptrain
                                                                                          > OK--the bottom one is deffinitely a "Belle"--as issued. The upper
                                                                                          one looks like a kitbash of a "General"--Cary (or somebody) had a
                                                                                          conversion boiler to make it a later loco. As far as I recall the
                                                                                          Mantua tenders ere always die cast.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Interesting photo of the Aerotrain--I have one with 8 cars, added
                                                                                          floors and tinted windows--and Kemtron trucks. Have 2 locos,
                                                                                          different drives.
                                                                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          > From: takefive247
                                                                                          > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 12:08 PM
                                                                                          > Subject: [vintageHO] Help identify
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Hey Glenn,
                                                                                          > I have two Mantua engines I would like some info on. I put a
                                                                                          picture
                                                                                          > in the photo section in Bill's Mantua. The Bell of the Eighties
                                                                                          on the
                                                                                          > bottom, I thought would have been built after the war because of
                                                                                          the
                                                                                          > cast tender. You suggest it could have been before the war. Do
                                                                                          you,
                                                                                          > or anyone, know when, or if, it was changed to all die cast? On
                                                                                          the
                                                                                          > top is "What"? I thought was a "Bell". General mechanism and cab
                                                                                          but
                                                                                          > straight tube boiler. Kit bash or true Mantua??
                                                                                          > Thanks
                                                                                          > Bill
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > SPONSORED LINKS Ho scale G scale model train G scale train
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                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1284 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/27/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Aerotrain (was Help identify)
                                                                                          If you're talking about the picture on the group home page, that's mine.

                                                                                          It's a Bowser on the Alco models drive that was based on the Athearn
                                                                                          switcher chassis. I have enough shells to do 10 coaches and an observation,
                                                                                          but need wheelsets etc. I did get a list from Lee at Bowser of what I
                                                                                          needed to buy, but I'm thinking I'd like to do something a little better
                                                                                          than the axles snapped into slots <G>.

                                                                                          Wish I could find some of the the Kemtron parts.

                                                                                          Don

                                                                                          don.dellmann@...
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                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          From: Glenn <glenn476@...>
                                                                                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                          Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 6:58 PM
                                                                                          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Help identify


                                                                                          OK--the bottom one is deffinitely a "Belle"--as issued. The upper one looks
                                                                                          like a kitbash of a "General"--Cary (or somebody) had a conversion boiler to
                                                                                          make it a later loco. As far as I recall the Mantua tenders ere always die
                                                                                          cast.

                                                                                          Interesting photo of the Aerotrain--I have one with 8 cars, added floors and
                                                                                          tinted windows--and Kemtron trucks. Have 2 locos, different drives.
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1285 From: frank Date: 3/27/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Aerotrain (was Help identify)
                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
                                                                                          wrote:
                                                                                          > Don: the photo is in Bills Mantua album and their are some messages
                                                                                          about it. Their is a photo of a Mantua Bell of the Eighties on its
                                                                                          side and another 4-4-0 above it. Their was one reply to the initial
                                                                                          message. I was adding to it.
                                                                                          In my Bowser catalog 16th addition on page 135 their is a
                                                                                          conversion boiler named Baldwin 4-4-0. This may be that boiler
                                                                                          conversion. The pittsburg boiler is shown on page 142. That is the
                                                                                          one I know of.
                                                                                          FRANK O TOPTRAIN

                                                                                          > If you're talking about the picture on the group home page, that's
                                                                                          mine.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > It's a Bowser on the Alco models drive that was based on the Athearn
                                                                                          > switcher chassis. I have enough shells to do 10 coaches and an
                                                                                          observation,
                                                                                          > but need wheelsets etc. I did get a list from Lee at Bowser of
                                                                                          what I
                                                                                          > needed to buy, but I'm thinking I'd like to do something a little
                                                                                          better
                                                                                          > than the axles snapped into slots <G>.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Wish I could find some of the the Kemtron parts.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Don
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > don.dellmann@...
                                                                                          > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                          > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
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                                                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          > From: Glenn <glenn476@...>
                                                                                          > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                          > Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 6:58 PM
                                                                                          > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Help identify
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > OK--the bottom one is deffinitely a "Belle"--as issued. The upper
                                                                                          one looks
                                                                                          > like a kitbash of a "General"--Cary (or somebody) had a conversion
                                                                                          boiler to
                                                                                          > make it a later loco. As far as I recall the Mantua tenders ere
                                                                                          always die
                                                                                          > cast.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Interesting photo of the Aerotrain--I have one with 8 cars, added
                                                                                          floors and
                                                                                          > tinted windows--and Kemtron trucks. Have 2 locos, different drives.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1286 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/27/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Aerotrain (was Help identify)
                                                                                          I was referring to his comment about the Aerotrain photo.

                                                                                          Don

                                                                                          don.dellmann@...
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                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          From: frank <toptrain1@...>
                                                                                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                          Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 8:26 PM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Aerotrain (was Help identify)


                                                                                          > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
                                                                                          > wrote:
                                                                                          > > Don: the photo is in Bills Mantua album and their are some messages
                                                                                          > about it. Their is a photo of a Mantua Bell of the Eighties on its
                                                                                          > side and another 4-4-0 above it. Their was one reply to the initial
                                                                                          > message. I was adding to it.
                                                                                          > In my Bowser catalog 16th addition on page 135 their is a
                                                                                          > conversion boiler named Baldwin 4-4-0. This may be that boiler
                                                                                          > conversion. The pittsburg boiler is shown on page 142. That is the
                                                                                          > one I know of.
                                                                                          > FRANK O TOPTRAIN
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > > If you're talking about the picture on the group home page, that's
                                                                                          > mine.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > It's a Bowser on the Alco models drive that was based on the Athearn
                                                                                          > > switcher chassis. I have enough shells to do 10 coaches and an
                                                                                          > observation,
                                                                                          > > but need wheelsets etc. I did get a list from Lee at Bowser of
                                                                                          > what I
                                                                                          > > needed to buy, but I'm thinking I'd like to do something a little
                                                                                          > better
                                                                                          > > than the axles snapped into slots <G>.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > Wish I could find some of the the Kemtron parts.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > Don
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > don.dellmann@...
                                                                                          > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                          > > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > > co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                          > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                          > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          > > From: Glenn <glenn476@...>
                                                                                          > > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                          > > Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 6:58 PM
                                                                                          > > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Help identify
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > OK--the bottom one is deffinitely a "Belle"--as issued. The upper
                                                                                          > one looks
                                                                                          > > like a kitbash of a "General"--Cary (or somebody) had a conversion
                                                                                          > boiler to
                                                                                          > > make it a later loco. As far as I recall the Mantua tenders ere
                                                                                          > always die
                                                                                          > > cast.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > Interesting photo of the Aerotrain--I have one with 8 cars, added
                                                                                          > floors and
                                                                                          > > tinted windows--and Kemtron trucks. Have 2 locos, different drives.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > SPONSORED LINKS Ho scale G scale model train G scale train
                                                                                          > Ho scale model train Ho scale trains
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
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                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1287 From: Don Rowland Date: 3/27/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: old goodies at the club auction
                                                                                          Glenn,

                                                                                          Answer to your comment: "I have examples of all except the
                                                                                          Atlantic--anyone got one to spare?" NO

                                                                                          Your question:"I wonder about the brass boiler on an MDC--is it a cast
                                                                                          boiler?" NO - The boiler and cab are all sheet brass and soldered
                                                                                          together.

                                                                                          Don
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1288 From: Gerry D Date: 3/27/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Tyco-Mantuas reverse running kink
                                                                                          Earlier I mentioned axle wipers...
                                                                                          here are a few links to some varities:

                                                                                          http://www.loystoys.com/richmond-controls/index.html

                                                                                          http://the-gauge.com/thread4050-my-cabooseneed-advice.html

                                                                                          http://www.tomarindustries.com/acc.htm (contact
                                                                                          wipers)

                                                                                          http://www.richmondcontrols.com/News02q1.doc (second
                                                                                          page)

                                                                                          Yardy's Idea and method is good, If you were to
                                                                                          consider axle wipers, use his idea and a tiny drop of
                                                                                          what he mentioned or "CRC Contact Cleaner" on the
                                                                                          contact surfaces. (axle and wiper)

                                                                                          Cordially,
                                                                                          Gerry D
                                                                                          http://kitbash.ourpage.org

                                                                                          --- Yardbird Trains <danrbush@...> wrote:

                                                                                          > Bill,
                                                                                          > Many times I check to see if the tender axles are
                                                                                          > the culprit with the reverse problem by applying a
                                                                                          > few drops of electrical contact spray in each
                                                                                          > journal. If that was the problem, you'll see
                                                                                          > improvement immediately. It also has a small amount
                                                                                          > of lubrication ability to it, but not enough for
                                                                                          > spinning axles, so after using and running to clean
                                                                                          > the contacts, I put in a tiny drop of fine oil as
                                                                                          > some others have mentioned here. The key there is
                                                                                          > "tiny". We do dozens of locos each month like this
                                                                                          > and have yet to see a returned one (knock on wood).
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Yardy
                                                                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          > From: Glenn
                                                                                          > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 6:59 PM
                                                                                          > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Tyco-Mantuas reverse
                                                                                          > running kink
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > might improve things--that's graphite, and a good
                                                                                          > conductor.
                                                                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          > From: takefive247
                                                                                          > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 12:32 PM
                                                                                          > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Tyco-Mantuas reverse
                                                                                          > running kink
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Thanks Guys,
                                                                                          > I had done everything you said except the axle
                                                                                          > journals and oil. Used
                                                                                          > grease -um. Would that make it worse?
                                                                                          > Bill
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
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                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1289 From: Gerry D Date: 3/27/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Tyco-Mantuas reverse running kink
                                                                                          Images of the wipers installed on a Mantua 0-4-0 metal
                                                                                          tender are at: http://ourpage.com/tyco/wipers.htm

                                                                                          They worked well for me but since they were installed
                                                                                          some 30 years ago, I'll be darned if I would remember
                                                                                          who made them.

                                                                                          Cordially,
                                                                                          Gerry D
                                                                                          http://kitbash.ourpage.org

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                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1290 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 3/28/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Tyco-Mantuas reverse running kink

                                                                                          I think these are “Tomar” wipers.  I bought about 4 sets in the ‘70’s, and they worked well (3 locos of mine still use them).  I have not seen them on the market in a long time-they are not listed in the Walthers catalog.  Like anything else, they are also maintenance items, not a”cure-all, forget they exist” deal.

                                                                                           

                                                                                          MDC made some nifty ones similar to the Richmond Controls units (attached with  the 2-56 truck attachment screws), but now that Horizon only wants to do R-T-R, those may be collectors’ items as well.

                                                                                           

                                                                                          Note that since these gadgets put contact pressure on the axles to collect current, they also cut back on how many cars a loco eventually can pull.  I personally just do the maintenance to maintain good electrical contact thru the wheelsets/sideframes.  Of course, if you want to use plastic sideframes and need to pick up power for a car/loco, these things are the only answer.

                                                                                           

                                                                                          JerryG.

                                                                                           


                                                                                          From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Gerry D
                                                                                          Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 11:00 PM
                                                                                          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Tyco-Mantuas reverse running kink

                                                                                           

                                                                                          Images of the wipers installed on a Mantua 0-4-0 metal
                                                                                          tender are at: http://ourpage.com/tyco/wipers.htm

                                                                                          They worked well for me but since they were installed
                                                                                          some 30 years ago, I'll be darned if I would remember
                                                                                          who made them.

                                                                                          Cordially,
                                                                                          Gerry D
                                                                                          http://kitbash.ourpage.org

                                                                                          __________________________________________________
                                                                                          Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                          Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1291 From: AL Date: 3/28/2006
                                                                                          Subject: help identify this old 0-6-0
                                                                                          Well, since I'm already coming out of my shell and posting, lol,
                                                                                          here's another one to run by the gurus on the list ( will refrain
                                                                                          from calling anyone 'old timers' , lol ) .

                                                                                          Posted photos of a mystery engine to the photos ,under folder "Al's
                                                                                          old HO goodies ". ( will try to get more pics later, such as the
                                                                                          Yardbird 'before' shots, etc )

                                                                                          Got this one in a lot of items a few weeks back, no luck
                                                                                          identifying it so far - thought maybe a Gilbert, but not sure ?

                                                                                          All diecast, with open frame motor.
                                                                                          It has a unique (at least to me), puffing smoke assembly,driven off
                                                                                          the main drive gear,and a plunger inside the tube shown in photo 1 .
                                                                                          All parts appear to be present, so will try to rebuild as original.
                                                                                          The tender is also all diescast, with nice brass wheels and wipers
                                                                                          (leading me against my original 'Gilbert' thoughts).

                                                                                          Currently not running, but looks lke it should, with just minimal
                                                                                          cleaning, so will keep posted.

                                                                                          Thanks in advance ( again, lol ) for any info / input .

                                                                                          ~ AL

                                                                                          ps: will have a couple other vintage freight cars,etc fromt he club
                                                                                          auction box, that I'm not 100% certain on, as well :-)
                                                                                          ( hey, I can't be sure on em all, lol, most are older than me :-),
                                                                                          but learning as I go, and getting more 'into' the old HO .. it's an
                                                                                          illness,as you guys know - just ask my wife.
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1292 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 3/28/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: help identify this old 0-6-0
                                                                                          Al,
                                                                                          You're correct, Gilbert AF.  Looks like most of it is there.
                                                                                            
                                                                                          Yardy 
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          From: AL
                                                                                          Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 10:22 AM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] help identify this old 0-6-0


                                                                                          Well, since I'm already coming out of my shell and posting, lol,
                                                                                          here's another one to run by the gurus on the list ( will refrain
                                                                                          from calling anyone 'old timers' , lol ) .

                                                                                          Posted photos of a mystery engine to the photos ,under folder "Al's
                                                                                          old HO goodies ". ( will try to get more pics later, such as the
                                                                                          Yardbird 'before' shots, etc )

                                                                                          Got this one in a lot of items a few weeks back, no luck
                                                                                          identifying it so far - thought maybe a Gilbert, but not sure ?

                                                                                          All diecast, with open frame motor.
                                                                                          It has a unique (at least to me), puffing smoke assembly,driven off
                                                                                          the main drive gear,and a plunger inside the tube shown in photo 1 .
                                                                                          All parts appear to be present, so will try to rebuild as original.
                                                                                          The tender is also all diescast, with nice brass wheels and wipers
                                                                                          (leading me against my original 'Gilbert' thoughts).

                                                                                          Currently not running, but looks lke it should, with just minimal
                                                                                          cleaning, so will keep posted.

                                                                                          Thanks in advance ( again, lol ) for any info / input .

                                                                                          ~ AL

                                                                                          ps: will have a couple other vintage freight cars,etc fromt he club
                                                                                          auction box, that I'm not 100% certain on, as well :-)
                                                                                          ( hey, I can't be sure on em all, lol, most are older than me :-),
                                                                                          but learning as I go, and getting more 'into' the old HO .. it's an
                                                                                          illness,as you guys know - just ask my wife.




                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1293 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/28/2006
                                                                                          Subject: re, the 'puffing' 0-6-0
                                                                                          i am floored, absolutely floored.
                                                                                          a gear-driven crank timed off the worm, powering an honest-to-Ghod
                                                                                          smoke-chamber-piston-cylinder arrangement.
                                                                                          look at all the great die cast machinery there!

                                                                                          (indistinct mumbles of malcontent, etc)

                                                                                          times like this, i wanna grab that plastic Tyco Chattanoogy ChooChoo
                                                                                          designer and give him/her/it a good shake.
                                                                                          "see? ..SEE?? ..THIS is how it's done!!!"

                                                                                          (grumble grumble grumble..)

                                                                                          ...
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1294 From: frank Date: 3/28/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: re, the 'puffing' 0-6-0
                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Imp Ster" <iimpster@...> wrote:
                                                                                          > Hey Impster : That smoke box drive arangement is also used on the
                                                                                          MARX hudson the Revell 0-6-0t, and some hornby steamers.
                                                                                          frank o
                                                                                          > i am floored, absolutely floored.
                                                                                          > a gear-driven crank timed off the worm, powering an honest-to-Ghod
                                                                                          > smoke-chamber-piston-cylinder arrangement.
                                                                                          > look at all the great die cast machinery there!
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > (indistinct mumbles of malcontent, etc)
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > times like this, i wanna grab that plastic Tyco Chattanoogy ChooChoo
                                                                                          > designer and give him/her/it a good shake.
                                                                                          > "see? ..SEE?? ..THIS is how it's done!!!"
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > (grumble grumble grumble..)
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > ...
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1295 From: frank Date: 3/28/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: re, the 'puffing' 0-6-0
                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "frank" <toptrain1@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Imp Ster" <iimpster@> wrote:
                                                                                          > > Hey Impster : That smoke box drive arangement is also used on the
                                                                                          > MARX hudson the Revell 0-6-0t, and some hornby steamers.
                                                                                          I'm not correct. the Revell 0-6-0t smoke system is not of this
                                                                                          type. It is like the Lionel pacific smoke system where a side rod
                                                                                          conected piston pumps air thro a smoke unit and out the stack.
                                                                                          > frank o
                                                                                          > > i am floored, absolutely floored.
                                                                                          > > a gear-driven crank timed off the worm, powering an honest-to-
                                                                                          Ghod
                                                                                          > > smoke-chamber-piston-cylinder arrangement.
                                                                                          > > look at all the great die cast machinery there!
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > (indistinct mumbles of malcontent, etc)
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > times like this, i wanna grab that plastic Tyco Chattanoogy
                                                                                          ChooChoo
                                                                                          > > designer and give him/her/it a good shake.
                                                                                          > > "see? ..SEE?? ..THIS is how it's done!!!"
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > (grumble grumble grumble..)
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > ...
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1296 From: Glenn Date: 3/28/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Aerotrain (was Help identify)
                                                                                          That's why my train stopped with 8 cars, ran out of the Kemtron parts.
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          From: frank
                                                                                          Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 6:26 PM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Aerotrain (was Help identify)

                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
                                                                                          wrote:
                                                                                          > Don: the photo is in Bills Mantua album and their are some messages
                                                                                          about it. Their is a photo of a Mantua Bell of the Eighties on its
                                                                                          side and another 4-4-0 above it. Their was one reply to the initial
                                                                                          message. I was adding to it.
                                                                                            In my Bowser catalog 16th addition on page 135 their is a
                                                                                          conversion boiler named Baldwin 4-4-0. This may be that boiler
                                                                                          conversion. The pittsburg boiler is shown on page 142. That is the
                                                                                          one I know of.
                                                                                              FRANK O TOPTRAIN

                                                                                          > If you're talking about the picture on the group home page, that's
                                                                                          mine.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > It's a Bowser on the Alco models drive that was based on the Athearn
                                                                                          > switcher chassis.  I have enough shells to do 10 coaches and an
                                                                                          observation,
                                                                                          > but need wheelsets etc.  I did get a list from Lee at Bowser of
                                                                                          what I
                                                                                          > needed to buy, but I'm thinking I'd like to do something a little
                                                                                          better
                                                                                          > than the axles snapped into slots <G>.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Wish I could find some of the the Kemtron parts.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Don
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > don.dellmann@...
                                                                                          > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                          > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          > From: Glenn <glenn476@...>
                                                                                          > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                          > Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 6:58 PM
                                                                                          > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Help identify
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > OK--the bottom one is deffinitely a "Belle"--as issued. The upper
                                                                                          one looks
                                                                                          > like a kitbash of a "General"--Cary (or somebody) had a conversion
                                                                                          boiler to
                                                                                          > make it a later loco. As far as I recall the Mantua tenders ere
                                                                                          always die
                                                                                          > cast.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Interesting photo of the Aerotrain--I have one with 8 cars, added
                                                                                          floors and
                                                                                          > tinted windows--and Kemtron trucks. Have 2 locos, different drives.
                                                                                          >




                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1297 From: Glenn Date: 3/28/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: old goodies at the club auction
                                                                                          The MDC with a brass boiler sounds like someone's kitbash on the MDC chassis. 
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 8:17 PM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: old goodies at the club auction

                                                                                          Glenn,

                                                                                          Answer to your comment: "I have examples of all except the
                                                                                          Atlantic--anyone got one to spare?"  NO

                                                                                          Your question:"I wonder about the brass boiler on an MDC--is it a cast
                                                                                          boiler?"  NO - The boiler and cab are all sheet brass and soldered
                                                                                          together.

                                                                                          Don






                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1298 From: Glenn Date: 3/28/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: help identify this old 0-6-0
                                                                                          That thing is yelling GILBERT! at me--gj
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          From: AL
                                                                                          Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 8:22 AM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] help identify this old 0-6-0


                                                                                          Well, since I'm already coming out of my shell and posting, lol,
                                                                                          here's another one to run by the gurus on the list ( will refrain
                                                                                          from calling anyone 'old timers' , lol ) .

                                                                                          Posted photos of a mystery engine to the photos ,under folder "Al's
                                                                                          old HO goodies ". ( will try to get more pics later, such as the
                                                                                          Yardbird 'before' shots, etc )

                                                                                          Got this one in a lot of items a few weeks back, no luck
                                                                                          identifying it so far - thought maybe a Gilbert, but not sure ?

                                                                                          All diecast, with open frame motor.
                                                                                          It has a unique (at least to me), puffing smoke assembly,driven off
                                                                                          the main drive gear,and a plunger inside the tube shown in photo 1 .
                                                                                          All parts appear to be present, so will try to rebuild as original.
                                                                                          The tender is also all diescast, with nice brass wheels and wipers
                                                                                          (leading me against my original 'Gilbert' thoughts).

                                                                                          Currently not running, but looks lke it should, with just minimal
                                                                                          cleaning, so will keep posted.

                                                                                          Thanks in advance ( again, lol ) for any info / input .

                                                                                          ~ AL

                                                                                          ps: will have a couple other vintage freight cars,etc fromt he club
                                                                                          auction box, that I'm not 100% certain on, as well :-)
                                                                                          ( hey, I can't be sure on em all, lol, most are older than me :-),
                                                                                          but learning as I go, and getting more 'into' the old HO .. it's an
                                                                                          illness,as you guys know - just ask my wife.




                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1299 From: Glenn Date: 3/28/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: re, the 'puffing' 0-6-0
                                                                                          I'd bet that the Marx hudson was a re-issue of the Gilbert.  The Revell 0-6-0T had a little box of shot that was jiggled by a cam on a driver axle to make the chugging sound. gj
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          From: frank
                                                                                          Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 1:21 PM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: re, the 'puffing' 0-6-0

                                                                                          --- In
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1300 From: Don Dellmann Date: 3/28/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Tyco-Mantuas reverse running kink
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          From: Jerry Garteiser <jerryg@...>
                                                                                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                          Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 9:02 AM
                                                                                          Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Tyco-Mantuas reverse running kink


                                                                                          > I think these are "Tomar" wipers. I bought about 4 sets in the '70's, and
                                                                                          > they worked well (3 locos of mine still use them). I have not seen them
                                                                                          on
                                                                                          > the market in a long time-they are not listed in the Walthers catalog.
                                                                                          Like
                                                                                          > anything else, they are also maintenance items, not a"cure-all, forget
                                                                                          they
                                                                                          > exist" deal.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > MDC made some nifty ones similar to the Richmond Controls units (attached
                                                                                          > with the 2-56 truck attachment screws), but now that Horizon only wants
                                                                                          to
                                                                                          > do R-T-R, those may be collectors' items as well.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Note that since these gadgets put contact pressure on the axles to collect
                                                                                          > current, they also cut back on how many cars a loco eventually can pull.
                                                                                          I
                                                                                          > personally just do the maintenance to maintain good electrical contact
                                                                                          thru
                                                                                          > the wheelsets/sideframes. Of course, if you want to use plastic
                                                                                          sideframes
                                                                                          > and need to pick up power for a car/loco, these things are the only
                                                                                          answer.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > JerryG.

                                                                                          I'd thought about using the GH "Picups" on some units (they were a slider
                                                                                          that actually slid along the rail) but was always afraid they'd snag on
                                                                                          switchwork. Anyone ever use them?.

                                                                                          Don

                                                                                          don.dellmann@...
                                                                                          http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                          moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
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                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1301 From: Garry Spear Date: 3/28/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Tyco-Mantuas reverse running kink
                                                                                          Use the spring from a Kaydee #5. It is phosphor bronze and does a
                                                                                          great job of pickup power. I use them on the wheels or treads, not
                                                                                          the rail. Price is right and the supply is plentiful.

                                                                                          Garry Spear

                                                                                          On 3/28/06, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          > From: Jerry Garteiser <jerryg@...>
                                                                                          > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                          > Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 9:02 AM
                                                                                          > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Tyco-Mantuas reverse running kink
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > > I think these are "Tomar" wipers. I bought about 4 sets in the '70's, and
                                                                                          > > they worked well (3 locos of mine still use them). I have not seen them
                                                                                          > on
                                                                                          > > the market in a long time-they are not listed in the Walthers catalog.
                                                                                          > Like
                                                                                          > > anything else, they are also maintenance items, not a"cure-all, forget
                                                                                          > they
                                                                                          > > exist" deal.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > MDC made some nifty ones similar to the Richmond Controls units (attached
                                                                                          > > with the 2-56 truck attachment screws), but now that Horizon only wants
                                                                                          > to
                                                                                          > > do R-T-R, those may be collectors' items as well.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > Note that since these gadgets put contact pressure on the axles to collect
                                                                                          > > current, they also cut back on how many cars a loco eventually can pull.
                                                                                          > I
                                                                                          > > personally just do the maintenance to maintain good electrical contact
                                                                                          > thru
                                                                                          > > the wheelsets/sideframes. Of course, if you want to use plastic
                                                                                          > sideframes
                                                                                          > > and need to pick up power for a car/loco, these things are the only
                                                                                          > answer.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > JerryG.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > I'd thought about using the GH "Picups" on some units (they were a slider
                                                                                          > that actually slid along the rail) but was always afraid they'd snag on
                                                                                          > switchwork. Anyone ever use them?.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Don
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > don.dellmann@...
                                                                                          > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                          > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1302 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 3/28/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Tyco-Mantuas reverse running kink

                                                                                          I did equip two Mantua Boosters (0-4-0 tank engines) with them long ago.  They did snag at switches.  The one Booster I have left has the Kemtron 4 wheel trailing truck installed (also done long ago) to enhance pickup.  That gadget did make a difference!!   JerryG.

                                                                                           


                                                                                          From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann
                                                                                          Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 5:04 PM
                                                                                          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Tyco-Mantuas reverse running kink

                                                                                           


                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          From: Jerry Garteiser <jerryg@...>
                                                                                          To: < vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >
                                                                                          Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 9:02 AM
                                                                                          Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Tyco-Mantuas reverse running kink


                                                                                          > I think these are "Tomar" wipers.  I bought about 4 sets in the '70's, and
                                                                                          > they worked well (3 locos of mine still use them).  I have not seen them
                                                                                          on
                                                                                          > the market in a long time-they are not listed in the Walthers catalog.
                                                                                          Like
                                                                                          > anything else, they are also maintenance items, not a"cure-all, forget
                                                                                          they
                                                                                          > exist" deal.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > MDC made some nifty ones similar to the Richmond Controls units (attached
                                                                                          > with  the 2-56 truck attachment screws), but now that Horizon only wants
                                                                                          to
                                                                                          > do R-T-R, those may be collectors' items as well.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Note that since these gadgets put contact pressure on the axles to collect
                                                                                          > current, they also cut back on how many cars a loco eventually can pull.
                                                                                          I
                                                                                          > personally just do the maintenance to maintain good electrical contact
                                                                                          thru
                                                                                          > the wheelsets/sideframes.  Of course, if you want to use plastic
                                                                                          sideframes
                                                                                          > and need to pick up power for a car/loco, these things are the only
                                                                                          answer.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > JerryG.

                                                                                          I'd thought about using the GH "Picups" on some units (they were a slider
                                                                                          that actually slid along the rail) but was always afraid they'd snag on
                                                                                          switchwork.  Anyone ever use them?.

                                                                                          Don

                                                                                          don.dellmann@...
                                                                                          http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                          moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          co-moderator: SCENERY@...
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                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO


                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1303 From: Don Rowland Date: 3/28/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: help identify this old 0-6-0
                                                                                          Im with you. I have the same illness. I keep picking up old steam
                                                                                          engines and rebuilding them. They are not all older then me. My wife
                                                                                          complains, because I have lost interest in a layout. I just want to
                                                                                          refurbish old wnginws.

                                                                                          Don
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1304 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 3/28/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: help identify this old 0-6-0
                                                                                          You have a wife that is COMPLAINING that you are NOT building a layout?!  We need to find out her diet so all model railroaders can feed it to their spouses.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          On building a layout - I don't think any law says you need to.  That's a neat thing about this hobby.  You can specialize in just a few areas, or even one, and have great fun.  The magazines tend to talk up the goal of building a layout.   A reason might be because most (not all) people do get more overall enjoyment for their efforts.  But another is that if you build a layout, you need to buy quite a bit of this and that moving more money to the hobby manufacturers who are their advertisers.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Chuck K.
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 10:45 PM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: help identify this old 0-6-0

                                                                                          Im with you.  I have the same illness. I keep picking up old steam
                                                                                          engines and rebuilding them.  They are not all older then me.  My wife
                                                                                          complains, because I have lost interest in a layout.  I just want to
                                                                                          refurbish old wnginws.

                                                                                          Don

                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1305 From: Don Riley Date: 3/28/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: help identify this old 0-6-0
                                                                                          You should totally build one! I mean this way you could see the engines run!
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Steamengine 4449
                                                                                          PS she totally rules!!!

                                                                                          Don Rowland <donhotrains@...> wrote:
                                                                                          Im with you.  I have the same illness. I keep picking up old steam
                                                                                          engines and rebuilding them.  They are not all older then me.  My wife
                                                                                          complains, because I have lost interest in a layout.  I just want to
                                                                                          refurbish old wnginws.

                                                                                          Don





                                                                                          Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.

                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1306 From: erieberk Date: 3/29/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: 6volt vs 12volt
                                                                                          Bill, One more way to tell the difference between Mantua's 6 Volt
                                                                                          motor and their 12 Volt motor is just to visually inspect it. The 6
                                                                                          Volt motors armature has three "lands" (segments) and their 12 Volt
                                                                                          motor has five such segments as can be readily seen without taking the
                                                                                          motor apart as they're open-framed motors. The armature is the wound
                                                                                          part that spins, with the brushes contacting the one end (commutator)
                                                                                          of it. Ray
                                                                                          \
                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <takefive@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > How do you tell the difference between the two? Mantua in particular.
                                                                                          > Bill
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1307 From: Imp Ster Date: 3/29/2006
                                                                                          Subject: re, the 'shot-puffing' 0-6-0
                                                                                          a box of shot being jiggled?
                                                                                          ok, now thats just sad.
                                                                                          (but why does that make me chuckle?)

                                                                                          kinda reminds me of the early "electronic" sound car (Tyco?), a
                                                                                          flatcar with a "crated load" covering the component that had a wheel-
                                                                                          wiper contact that signaled a "white noise" chuff from a simple
                                                                                          speaker circuit.
                                                                                          half the time the axle would snag and start dragging.
                                                                                          once it got stuck in the "on" position.
                                                                                          hawhaw.

                                                                                          but it was fun when it worked.
                                                                                          if i could find one today, i'd probably snag it just for effect.

                                                                                          ...

                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote:

                                                                                          The Revell 0-6-0T had a little box of shot that was jiggled by a cam
                                                                                          on a driver axle to make the chugging sound.
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1308 From: Ray Hobin Date: 3/29/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: 6volt vs 12volt
                                                                                          On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 15:57:17 "erieberk" <erieberk@...> wrote:

                                                                                          >Bill, One more way to tell the difference between Mantua's 6 Volt
                                                                                          >motor and their 12 Volt motor is just to visually inspect it. The 6
                                                                                          >Volt motors armature has three "lands" (segments) and their 12 Volt
                                                                                          >motor has five such segments as can be readily seen without taking the
                                                                                          >motor apart as they're open-framed motors. The armature is the wound
                                                                                          >part that spins, with the brushes contacting the one end (commutator)
                                                                                          >of it. Ray


                                                                                          That is not a universal truth...I have had motors over the past 50 years
                                                                                          with 3, 5 and 7 segments all of which were 12 volt motors. The number of
                                                                                          poles is not a positive identifier of voltage capability. Many AHM locos
                                                                                          were 3 pole and 12 volt.



                                                                                          Ray Hobin
                                                                                          NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX
                                                                                          Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1309 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 3/29/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Value of old engine
                                                                                          Hi Guys - my first post here, and thanks for letting me join this group!
                                                                                           
                                                                                          I have a chance to pick up a John English 0-4-0, appears complete but not running.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          I know I can clen up and get 'er going; if need be I can even replace the mechanism. Does anyone here have an idea what she might be worth? Ten dollars? Fifty? I'll admit I like this one... nice PRR prototype and so on. Nearly my age, too.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Thanks in advance for any replies!
                                                                                           
                                                                                          yours
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Fred Hultberg


                                                                                          Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1310 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 3/29/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: re, the 'shot-puffing' 0-6-0

                                                                                          I recall IHC had that as well.   And the “talking station”.  What we went thru just for some sounds.  Would have been cheaper-and easier-though to just get a tape recorder and some of the Mobile Fidelity RR recordings and play away.    JerryG.

                                                                                           


                                                                                          From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Imp Ster
                                                                                          Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 4:35 PM
                                                                                          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] re, the 'shot-puffing' 0-6-0

                                                                                           

                                                                                          a box of shot being jiggled?
                                                                                          ok, now thats just sad.
                                                                                          (but why does that make me chuckle?)

                                                                                          kinda reminds me of the early "electronic" sound car (Tyco?), a
                                                                                          flatcar with a "crated load" covering the component that had a wheel-
                                                                                          wiper contact that signaled a "white noise" chuff from a simple
                                                                                          speaker circuit.
                                                                                          half the time the axle would snag and start dragging.
                                                                                          once it got stuck in the "on" position.
                                                                                          hawhaw.

                                                                                          but it was fun when it worked.
                                                                                          if i could find one today, i'd probably snag it just for effect.

                                                                                          ...

                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com , "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote:

                                                                                          The Revell 0-6-0T had a little box of shot that was jiggled by a cam
                                                                                          on a driver axle to make the chugging sound.





                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1311 From: Glenn Date: 3/29/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: re, the 'shot-puffing' 0-6-0
                                                                                          Some years back I had a "repair shop" arrangement with Mantua--mainly to buy parts. I bought several of those chuffer circuits, most of which went into my large-scale locos.
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          From: Imp Ster
                                                                                          Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 2:34 PM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] re, the 'shot-puffing' 0-6-0

                                                                                          a box of shot being jiggled?
                                                                                          ok, now thats just sad.
                                                                                          (but why does that make me chuckle?)

                                                                                          kinda reminds me of the early "electronic" sound car (Tyco?), a
                                                                                          flatcar with a "crated load" covering the component that had a wheel-
                                                                                          wiper contact that signaled a "white noise" chuff from a simple
                                                                                          speaker circuit.
                                                                                          half the time the axle would snag and start dragging.
                                                                                          once it got stuck in the "on" position.
                                                                                          hawhaw.

                                                                                          but it was fun when it worked.
                                                                                          if i could find one today, i'd probably snag it just for effect.

                                                                                          ...

                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote:

                                                                                          The Revell 0-6-0T had a little box of shot that was jiggled by a cam
                                                                                          on a driver axle to make the chugging sound.




                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1312 From: Glenn Date: 3/29/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Value of old engine
                                                                                          You can probably get a complete one from Bowser. 
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 6:02 AM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Value of old engine

                                                                                          Hi Guys - my first post here, and thanks for letting me join this group!
                                                                                           
                                                                                          I have a chance to pick up a John English 0-4-0, appears complete but not running.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          I know I can clen up and get 'er going; if need be I can even replace the mechanism. Does anyone here have an idea what she might be worth? Ten dollars? Fifty? I'll admit I like this one... nice PRR prototype and so on. Nearly my age, too.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Thanks in advance for any replies!
                                                                                           
                                                                                          yours
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Fred Hultberg


                                                                                          Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.

                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1313 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 3/29/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: 6volt vs 12volt

                                                                                          Oh, horrors!  You had to remind me of the AHM 3 pole motors!!  That is one thing better not preserved (except as a memory to NEVER put up with that cheap stuff again!!)   JerryG.

                                                                                           


                                                                                          From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Ray Hobin
                                                                                          Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 5:34 PM
                                                                                          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: 6volt vs 12volt

                                                                                           

                                                                                          On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 15:57:17  "erieberk" <erieberk@...> wrote:

                                                                                          >Bill,  One more way to tell the difference between Mantua 's 6 Volt
                                                                                          >motor and their 12 Volt motor is just to visually inspect it.  The 6
                                                                                          >Volt motors armature has three "lands" (segments) and their 12 Volt
                                                                                          >motor has five such segments as can be readily seen without taking the
                                                                                          >motor apart as they're open-framed motors.  The armature is the wound
                                                                                          >part that spins, with the brushes contacting the one end (commutator)
                                                                                          >of it.  Ray                                            


                                                                                          That is not a universal truth...I have had motors over the past 50 years
                                                                                          with 3, 5 and 7 segments all of which were 12 volt motors.  The number of
                                                                                          poles is not a positive identifier of voltage capability.    Many AHM locos
                                                                                          were 3 pole and 12 volt.



                                                                                          Ray Hobin
                                                                                            NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX
                                                                                            Durham , NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]

                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1314 From: Glenn Date: 3/29/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: 6volt vs 12volt
                                                                                          But---if you're dealing with an old Mantua motor, that would follow. 
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          From: Ray Hobin
                                                                                          Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 3:34 PM
                                                                                          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: 6volt vs 12volt

                                                                                          On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 15:57:17  "erieberk" <erieberk@...> wrote:

                                                                                          >Bill,  One more way to tell the difference between Mantua's 6 Volt
                                                                                          >motor and their 12 Volt motor is just to visually inspect it.  The 6
                                                                                          >Volt motors armature has three "lands" (segments) and their 12 Volt
                                                                                          >motor has five such segments as can be readily seen without taking the
                                                                                          >motor apart as they're open-framed motors.  The armature is the wound
                                                                                          >part that spins, with the brushes contacting the one end (commutator)
                                                                                          >of it.  Ray                                            


                                                                                          That is not a universal truth...I have had motors over the past 50 years
                                                                                          with 3, 5 and 7 segments all of which were 12 volt motors.  The number of
                                                                                          poles is not a positive identifier of voltage capability.    Many AHM locos
                                                                                          were 3 pole and 12 volt.



                                                                                          Ray Hobin
                                                                                            NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX
                                                                                            Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1315 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 3/29/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Value of old engine

                                                                                          Probably would quit at $25.00.  Ask questions:  make sure there is no cracking of the castings; chips/dents, etc.  You can get any part you need to restore her from Yardy; but be careful that you don’t have a lot to buy to get her going.  Cleanups/repaints are easy.  A lot of times (especially if they are packed away for 15  or so years) a good teardown/clean/lubricate is all it takes to get them going.  If you end up with it, be sure and keep us posted; any problems we are happy to make suggestions/give advice to get it going.  Good luck!!!  JerryG.

                                                                                           


                                                                                          From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Fred Hultberg
                                                                                          Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 8:03 AM
                                                                                          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Value of old engine

                                                                                           

                                                                                          Hi Guys - my first post here, and thanks for letting me join this group!

                                                                                           

                                                                                          I have a chance to pick up a John English 0-4-0, appears complete but not running.

                                                                                           

                                                                                          I know I can clen up and get 'er going; if need be I can even replace the mechanism. Does anyone here have an idea what she might be worth? Ten dollars? Fifty? I'll admit I like this one... nice PRR prototype and so on. Nearly my age, too.

                                                                                           

                                                                                          Thanks in advance for any replies!

                                                                                           

                                                                                          yours

                                                                                           

                                                                                          Fred Hultberg


                                                                                          Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.

                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1316 From: erieberk Date: 3/30/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: 6volt vs 12volt
                                                                                          Hi Ray H., Concerning your input on my post pertaining to Mantua
                                                                                          motors; Please re-read my post. As this was in answer to Bill's
                                                                                          question on Mantua motors, I made sure that I specified Mantua motors
                                                                                          and included the correct information on them alone as that was what
                                                                                          this subject was solely about. At the time I was writing the
                                                                                          information about the Mantua motors, I kept in the back of my mind
                                                                                          that Varney's V-2 motor for instance was also a 12 Volt motor and
                                                                                          have seven (7) segments as is common knowledge to most people, as is
                                                                                          also the V-3 motor (even though hardly anybody knows its use).
                                                                                          However, I was talking strictly about Mantua and purposely did not
                                                                                          include any other manufacturers motors, AHM included. Hope this
                                                                                          clears up any misconception you may have surmised from this
                                                                                          information. Best Regards, Ray Wetzel
                                                                                          \
                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Ray Hobin <tcol01@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 15:57:17 "erieberk" <erieberk@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > >Bill, One more way to tell the difference between Mantua's 6 Volt
                                                                                          > >motor and their 12 Volt motor is just to visually inspect it. The
                                                                                          6
                                                                                          > >Volt motors armature has three "lands" (segments) and their 12
                                                                                          Volt
                                                                                          > >motor has five such segments as can be readily seen without taking
                                                                                          the
                                                                                          > >motor apart as they're open-framed motors. The armature is the
                                                                                          wound
                                                                                          > >part that spins, with the brushes contacting the one end
                                                                                          (commutator)
                                                                                          > >of it. Ray
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > That is not a universal truth...I have had motors over the past 50
                                                                                          years
                                                                                          > with 3, 5 and 7 segments all of which were 12 volt motors. The
                                                                                          number of
                                                                                          > poles is not a positive identifier of voltage capability. Many
                                                                                          AHM locos
                                                                                          > were 3 pole and 12 volt.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Ray Hobin
                                                                                          > NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX
                                                                                          > Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1317 From: Ray Hobin Date: 3/30/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: 6volt vs 12volt
                                                                                          On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 11:16:49 -0000, you wrote:

                                                                                          >Hi Ray H., Concerning your input on my post pertaining to Mantua
                                                                                          >motors; Please re-read my post. As this was in answer to Bill's
                                                                                          >question on Mantua motors, I made sure that I specified Mantua motors
                                                                                          >and included the correct information on them alone as that was what
                                                                                          >this subject was solely about. At the time I was writing the
                                                                                          >information about the Mantua motors,

                                                                                          My apology, apparently I missed the thrust of your posts...no disagreement
                                                                                          there.


                                                                                          >that Varney's V-2 motor for instance was also a 12 Volt motor and
                                                                                          >have seven (7) segments as is common knowledge to most people, as is
                                                                                          >also the V-3 motor (even though hardly anybody knows its use).


                                                                                          Do you know its use. I have no idea...but read on

                                                                                          Your last sentence sent me scurrying to an old parts box and, yup, still
                                                                                          have a brand new, in original box, Varney V-3 motor. No idea when or how I
                                                                                          obtained it, but must have had it for over 40 years. Could it have come
                                                                                          with an old Varney, (I think) brass/bronze cast boiler Berkshire kit that
                                                                                          came in a metal box similar to a small tackle box?

                                                                                          There was no tender. Sold that off years ago along with an incomplete
                                                                                          Winton kit.


                                                                                          Ray Hobin
                                                                                          NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX
                                                                                          Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1318 From: erieberk Date: 3/30/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: 6volt vs 12volt
                                                                                          Hi again Ray, Don't worry about it; no problem -- An easy thing that
                                                                                          could throw you "off track" (pun intended) when thinking about these
                                                                                          various open-frame motors as I too was doing, as you've noticed. On
                                                                                          the Varney V-3 -- don't feel bad. While I also have been in R.R.
                                                                                          modeling for at least as long as you have, I did not know either,
                                                                                          until more recently, what the V-3 motor was used for which I found
                                                                                          out in a conversation with Dick Mercer (Gorden Varney's Southeastern
                                                                                          U.S. representative) sometime before he died. Neither, will you find
                                                                                          mention of it in the Greenberg Varney Guide, perhaps because none of
                                                                                          the contributors at that time (including me) knew then. Although
                                                                                          found in most of the larger format post-War Varney catalogs, there's
                                                                                          no info as to its use, whereas the Varney Guide book covers both the
                                                                                          V-2 and the V-4 (also 7-pole).
                                                                                          \
                                                                                          . Your V-3 could well have come with the other Varney items you
                                                                                          mentioned, although of course not as part of an over the counter
                                                                                          kit. The V-3 was for retro-fitting and was not found in kits. Its
                                                                                          too bad that you sold the Varney metal carrying box, as they are
                                                                                          quite rare. I believe this box came with the post-War Mikado (as
                                                                                          mentioned in the Varney book) only, for a brief time at an additional
                                                                                          price. I have one such kit, but did not buy it new. I've seen only
                                                                                          one other such kit, on eBay about 6 months ago, which went for a high
                                                                                          price.
                                                                                          \
                                                                                          . Anyway, I was told by Dick that these motors were used to
                                                                                          convert the two-rail pre-War Mikes, Yellowstones, Pacifics, Heavy
                                                                                          Consols and shorty GG-1's for use with 12 Volts by replacing the 6
                                                                                          Volt V-1 with this V-3. As it appears in the Varney catalogs, you
                                                                                          need to notch out that upper fin portion of the molded motor housing
                                                                                          to clear the portion of the cast pre-War frame (where it drops down
                                                                                          to the threaded mounting hole), install and solder on a worm gear and
                                                                                          turn it upside down to mount it in place with the mounting screw
                                                                                          though the cast hole in the motor body, just as you would with the V-
                                                                                          1. I also have one in my collection, but haven't tried this -- don't
                                                                                          even remember if there's already a hole cast in that fin section of
                                                                                          the motor body, you may need to drill one. I mentioned it can be
                                                                                          used to convert 6 Volt two-rail engines (only) as the three-rail
                                                                                          models (outside third rail, with electrical wiper) did not have
                                                                                          insulated drivers. I would not rule out the possibility of your cast
                                                                                          brass Berkshire boiler originally coming with the steel box, rare as
                                                                                          those boxes are, but no information has been forthcoming to support
                                                                                          it. Regards, Ray Wetzel
                                                                                          \
                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Ray Hobin <tcol01@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 11:16:49 -0000, you wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > >Hi Ray H., Concerning your input on my post pertaining to Mantua
                                                                                          > >motors; Please re-read my post. As this was in answer to Bill's
                                                                                          > >question on Mantua motors, I made sure that I specified Mantua
                                                                                          motors
                                                                                          > >and included the correct information on them alone as that was
                                                                                          what
                                                                                          > >this subject was solely about. At the time I was writing the
                                                                                          > >information about the Mantua motors,
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > My apology, apparently I missed the thrust of your posts...no
                                                                                          disagreement
                                                                                          > there.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > >that Varney's V-2 motor for instance was also a 12 Volt motor and
                                                                                          > >have seven (7) segments as is common knowledge to most people, as
                                                                                          is
                                                                                          > >also the V-3 motor (even though hardly anybody knows its use).
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Do you know its use. I have no idea...but read on
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Your last sentence sent me scurrying to an old parts box and, yup,
                                                                                          still
                                                                                          > have a brand new, in original box, Varney V-3 motor. No idea when
                                                                                          or how I
                                                                                          > obtained it, but must have had it for over 40 years. Could it have
                                                                                          come
                                                                                          > with an old Varney, (I think) brass/bronze cast boiler Berkshire
                                                                                          kit that
                                                                                          > came in a metal box similar to a small tackle box?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > There was no tender. Sold that off years ago along with an
                                                                                          incomplete
                                                                                          > Winton kit.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Ray Hobin
                                                                                          > NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX
                                                                                          > Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1319 From: Garry Spear Date: 3/30/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: 6volt vs 12volt
                                                                                          I'm not sure of the source of the armatures, but as a boy I remember
                                                                                          seeing rewound armatures for Mantua motors with a 12 volt winding.

                                                                                          I also remember seeing layouts that have both 6 and 12 volt DC power
                                                                                          supplies. Switched, depending on the locomotive.

                                                                                          I have 3 (maybe more) locomotives that started life as 6 volt locos.

                                                                                          Garry Spear

                                                                                          On 3/30/06, erieberk <erieberk@...> wrote:
                                                                                          > Hi again Ray, Don't worry about it; no problem -- An easy thing that
                                                                                          > could throw you "off track" (pun intended) when thinking about these
                                                                                          > various open-frame motors as I too was doing, as you've noticed. On
                                                                                          > the Varney V-3 -- don't feel bad. While I also have been in R.R.
                                                                                          > modeling for at least as long as you have, I did not know either,
                                                                                          > until more recently, what the V-3 motor was used for which I found
                                                                                          > out in a conversation with Dick Mercer (Gorden Varney's Southeastern
                                                                                          > U.S. representative) sometime before he died. Neither, will you find
                                                                                          > mention of it in the Greenberg Varney Guide, perhaps because none of
                                                                                          > the contributors at that time (including me) knew then. Although
                                                                                          > found in most of the larger format post-War Varney catalogs, there's
                                                                                          > no info as to its use, whereas the Varney Guide book covers both the
                                                                                          > V-2 and the V-4 (also 7-pole).
                                                                                          > \
                                                                                          > . Your V-3 could well have come with the other Varney items you
                                                                                          > mentioned, although of course not as part of an over the counter
                                                                                          > kit. The V-3 was for retro-fitting and was not found in kits. Its
                                                                                          > too bad that you sold the Varney metal carrying box, as they are
                                                                                          > quite rare. I believe this box came with the post-War Mikado (as
                                                                                          > mentioned in the Varney book) only, for a brief time at an additional
                                                                                          > price. I have one such kit, but did not buy it new. I've seen only
                                                                                          > one other such kit, on eBay about 6 months ago, which went for a high
                                                                                          > price.
                                                                                          > \
                                                                                          > . Anyway, I was told by Dick that these motors were used to
                                                                                          > convert the two-rail pre-War Mikes, Yellowstones, Pacifics, Heavy
                                                                                          > Consols and shorty GG-1's for use with 12 Volts by replacing the 6
                                                                                          > Volt V-1 with this V-3. As it appears in the Varney catalogs, you
                                                                                          > need to notch out that upper fin portion of the molded motor housing
                                                                                          > to clear the portion of the cast pre-War frame (where it drops down
                                                                                          > to the threaded mounting hole), install and solder on a worm gear and
                                                                                          > turn it upside down to mount it in place with the mounting screw
                                                                                          > though the cast hole in the motor body, just as you would with the V-
                                                                                          > 1. I also have one in my collection, but haven't tried this -- don't
                                                                                          > even remember if there's already a hole cast in that fin section of
                                                                                          > the motor body, you may need to drill one. I mentioned it can be
                                                                                          > used to convert 6 Volt two-rail engines (only) as the three-rail
                                                                                          > models (outside third rail, with electrical wiper) did not have
                                                                                          > insulated drivers. I would not rule out the possibility of your cast
                                                                                          > brass Berkshire boiler originally coming with the steel box, rare as
                                                                                          > those boxes are, but no information has been forthcoming to support
                                                                                          > it. Regards, Ray Wetzel
                                                                                          > \
                                                                                          > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Ray Hobin <tcol01@...> wrote:
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 11:16:49 -0000, you wrote:
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > >Hi Ray H., Concerning your input on my post pertaining to Mantua
                                                                                          > > >motors; Please re-read my post. As this was in answer to Bill's
                                                                                          > > >question on Mantua motors, I made sure that I specified Mantua
                                                                                          > motors
                                                                                          > > >and included the correct information on them alone as that was
                                                                                          > what
                                                                                          > > >this subject was solely about. At the time I was writing the
                                                                                          > > >information about the Mantua motors,
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > My apology, apparently I missed the thrust of your posts...no
                                                                                          > disagreement
                                                                                          > > there.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > >that Varney's V-2 motor for instance was also a 12 Volt motor and
                                                                                          > > >have seven (7) segments as is common knowledge to most people, as
                                                                                          > is
                                                                                          > > >also the V-3 motor (even though hardly anybody knows its use).
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > Do you know its use. I have no idea...but read on
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > Your last sentence sent me scurrying to an old parts box and, yup,
                                                                                          > still
                                                                                          > > have a brand new, in original box, Varney V-3 motor. No idea when
                                                                                          > or how I
                                                                                          > > obtained it, but must have had it for over 40 years. Could it have
                                                                                          > come
                                                                                          > > with an old Varney, (I think) brass/bronze cast boiler Berkshire
                                                                                          > kit that
                                                                                          > > came in a metal box similar to a small tackle box?
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > There was no tender. Sold that off years ago along with an
                                                                                          > incomplete
                                                                                          > > Winton kit.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > Ray Hobin
                                                                                          > > NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX
                                                                                          > > Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1320 From: Glenn Date: 3/30/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: 6volt vs 12volt
                                                                                          some years ago, while assisting the heirs of the late Tony Thomas sort out his trains, I re-united a Varney O Scale 4-6-0 with its tin box--that had something else in it.  (they kept it)
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          From: erieberk
                                                                                          Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 8:52 AM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: 6volt vs 12volt

                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1321 From: Gerry Date: 3/30/2006
                                                                                          Subject: 6 volts, 12 volts, nawh.....
                                                                                          Read this link and see about REAL DC power!

                                                                                          http://www.blakeschwendiman.com/blook/2005/11/a_taste_of_power.html

                                                                                          I got a kick out of it, I hope you all do also...

                                                                                          Cordially,
                                                                                          Gerry D
                                                                                          http://kitbash.ourpage.org
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1322 From: takefive247 Date: 3/30/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: 6volt vs 12volt
                                                                                          OK, But is it true for Mantua?
                                                                                          Bill


                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Ray Hobin <tcol01@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 15:57:17 "erieberk" <erieberk@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > >Bill, One more way to tell the difference between Mantua's 6 Volt
                                                                                          > >motor and their 12 Volt motor is just to visually inspect it. The 6
                                                                                          > >Volt motors armature has three "lands" (segments) and their 12 Volt
                                                                                          > >motor has five such segments as can be readily seen without taking the
                                                                                          > >motor apart as they're open-framed motors. The armature is the wound
                                                                                          > >part that spins, with the brushes contacting the one end (commutator)
                                                                                          > >of it. Ray
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > That is not a universal truth...I have had motors over the past 50 years
                                                                                          > with 3, 5 and 7 segments all of which were 12 volt motors. The
                                                                                          number of
                                                                                          > poles is not a positive identifier of voltage capability. Many
                                                                                          AHM locos
                                                                                          > were 3 pole and 12 volt.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Ray Hobin
                                                                                          > NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX
                                                                                          > Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1323 From: Dave Slater Date: 3/30/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: help identify this old 0-6-0
                                                                                          My wife actually suggested that I bring my layout THROUGH the wall and around the family room..... 
                                                                                          Of course she is almost as train "crazy" as I am...  <VBG>
                                                                                          Dave S.

                                                                                          Charles E. Kinzer wrote:
                                                                                          You have a wife that is COMPLAINING that you are NOT building a layout?!  We need to find out her diet so all model railroaders can feed it to their spouses.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          On building a layout - I don't think any law says you need to.  That's a neat thing about this hobby.  You can specialize in just a few areas, or even one, and have great fun.  The magazines tend to talk up the goal of building a layout.   A reason might be because most (not all) people do get more overall enjoyment for their efforts.  But another is that if you build a layout, you need to buy quite a bit of this and that moving more money to the hobby manufacturers who are their advertisers.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Chuck K.
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 10:45 PM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: help identify this old 0-6-0

                                                                                          Im with you.  I have the same illness. I keep picking up old steam
                                                                                          engines and rebuilding them.  They are not all older then me.  My wife
                                                                                          complains, because I have lost interest in a layout.  I just want to
                                                                                          refurbish old wnginws.

                                                                                          Don


                                                                                          No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.3/296 - Release Date: 29/03/2006
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1324 From: Glenn Date: 3/30/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Locos available
                                                                                          Just returned from the model RR club--a fellow--who does not have email (he drives a Model A Ford) has a box full of stuff--most of the cars have been spoken for, but there is a John English YardBird that I think someone was looking for, and a Bowser Challenger with tender. If anyone is interested, I will get you in touch with him.  gj
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1325 From: erieberk Date: 3/31/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: 6volt vs 12volt
                                                                                          If you're into collecting Varney, that's quite a rare piece to obtain
                                                                                          even if you're not into O Scale. It wasn't produced for very long
                                                                                          before it was sold to General Models Corp. They did come packaged in
                                                                                          those steel boxes as you mentioned and as I forgot to mention,
                                                                                          thinking at the moment only of HO. Too bad you weren't able to get
                                                                                          it. The partitioned steel box for the O Scale ten-wheeler is
                                                                                          included in the photo caption of the MR ad (Oct. '46) in the Varney
                                                                                          guide. Ray
                                                                                          \
                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > some years ago, while assisting the heirs of the late Tony Thomas
                                                                                          sort out his trains, I re-united a Varney O Scale 4-6-0 with its tin
                                                                                          box--that had something else in it. (they kept it)
                                                                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          > From: erieberk
                                                                                          > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 8:52 AM
                                                                                          > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: 6volt vs 12volt
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1326 From: Garrett W. Rea Date: 3/31/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Binkley (I think) passenger car question
                                                                                          All:

                                                                                          I am looking for two bits of information regarding Binkley passenger
                                                                                          cars.

                                                                                          My father has one of their old wooden (1890s?) observation cars with
                                                                                          cast arch windows. One of the windows has disappeared over tha past
                                                                                          45+ years of time, anyone know (or have) a spare window in their
                                                                                          collection?

                                                                                          He also had a car that is long history. I (think) it was another
                                                                                          Binkley car. It was a combination car with an early "narrow" closed
                                                                                          vestibule (looks like an open platform car, but with a vestibule the
                                                                                          width of the diaphragm). I think it too had a arch window. Here is
                                                                                          a "rough" version of the prototype arrangement:

                                                                                          http://www.mcrwy.com/collectn/woodpas/soo920.html

                                                                                          Anyhow, the car is long gone, but I would love to build one or one
                                                                                          like it....If anyone knows a Binkley name (if it is Binkley) or stock
                                                                                          number for such a car, that would be a big help. These cars were
                                                                                          built by dad around 1959-1963.

                                                                                          Thanks-

                                                                                          Garrett
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1327 From: Glenn Date: 3/31/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: 6volt vs 12volt
                                                                                          This was one of those cases when the kids wanted the equipment they remembered growing up--one son was delivering a load to me, saw an F3 AB setin Rio Granat they had looked all thru the stuff for a loco like that that their dad had built--I told him he had just found it--I had obtained it from Tony many years earlier--they wanted it back,, traded me a brass switcher for it. I pointed ouit historical significance of several items they had, and asked to be first in line if they ever decided to dispose of them.
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          From: erieberk
                                                                                          Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 6:10 AM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: 6volt vs 12volt

                                                                                          If you're into collecting Varney, that's quite a rare piece to obtain
                                                                                          even if you're not into O Scale.  It wasn't produced for very long
                                                                                          before it was sold to General Models Corp.  They did come packaged in
                                                                                          those steel boxes as you mentioned and as I forgot to mention,
                                                                                          thinking at the moment only of HO.  Too bad you weren't able to get
                                                                                          it.  The partitioned steel box for the O Scale ten-wheeler is
                                                                                          included in the photo caption of the MR ad (Oct. '46) in the Varney
                                                                                          guide.  Ray                                
                                                                                          \                                                                    
                                                                                            --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > some years ago, while assisting the heirs of the late Tony Thomas
                                                                                          sort out his trains, I re-united a Varney O Scale 4-6-0 with its tin
                                                                                          box--that had something else in it.  (they kept it)
                                                                                          >   ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          >   From: erieberk
                                                                                          >   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          >   Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 8:52 AM
                                                                                          >   Subject: [vintageHO] Re: 6volt vs 12volt
                                                                                          >





                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1328 From: erieberk Date: 4/1/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Binkley (I think) passenger car question
                                                                                          Garrett, Not exactly sure what you mean by one of the "windows" have
                                                                                          disappeared, and you're looking for a spare "window", unless you mean
                                                                                          the whole car side (with windows). Binkley's old vintage era
                                                                                          passenger cars came with sides which were die-cut (as one piece) from
                                                                                          heavy matt board, with all cut-out windows. While I can't help you
                                                                                          with a replacement side for this 1890's observation, their catalog
                                                                                          number for the car (depending on which one you have) is either P-21
                                                                                          or P-41. The P-21 is listed in the Binkley catalogs
                                                                                          as "1890 'Shorty' Observation". Looking at the photo, it doesn't
                                                                                          look much shorter than many other passenger cars of the era; The
                                                                                          window (it has arched windows) arrangement is 16 windows with one
                                                                                          small oval window towards one end and one small rectangular window
                                                                                          towards the other end. Has the narrow closed vestibule you describe
                                                                                          and looks close in conformate to the Soo 920 car on your reference
                                                                                          site as far as window arrangement. The P-41 is just listed as "1890
                                                                                          80' Observation" and while there is no photo include, the length
                                                                                          would certainly not match your father's combine. Near complete
                                                                                          listings of Binkley are also found in the Walthers 1961 catalog, but
                                                                                          there are no passenger car photos there.
                                                                                          \
                                                                                          The matching Binkley combination is listed as "1890 Combine", and is
                                                                                          catalog number P-23. If you're not sure whether the cars are
                                                                                          Binkley, just check the sides material. If the side is not pre-
                                                                                          painted heavy matt board, you might want to check other manufacturers
                                                                                          of Period passenger cars such as International Model Products,
                                                                                          Ambroid, Northeastern, Alexander Scale Models, Model Engineering
                                                                                          Works and Red Ball (sides) if cast metal or wood, or MDC/Roundhouse
                                                                                          if moulded plastic. The time period you give for your father having
                                                                                          built these cars (1959 - 1963) fits right in with Binkley though.
                                                                                          Regards, Ray Wetzel
                                                                                          \
                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Garrett W. Rea" <Garrett.Rea@...>
                                                                                          wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > All:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > I am looking for two bits of information regarding Binkley
                                                                                          passenger
                                                                                          > cars.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > My father has one of their old wooden (1890s?) observation cars
                                                                                          with
                                                                                          > cast arch windows. One of the windows has disappeared over tha
                                                                                          past
                                                                                          > 45+ years of time, anyone know (or have) a spare window in their
                                                                                          > collection?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > He also had a car that is long history. I (think) it was another
                                                                                          > Binkley car. It was a combination car with an early "narrow"
                                                                                          closed
                                                                                          > vestibule (looks like an open platform car, but with a vestibule
                                                                                          the
                                                                                          > width of the diaphragm). I think it too had a arch window. Here is
                                                                                          > a "rough" version of the prototype arrangement:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > http://www.mcrwy.com/collectn/woodpas/soo920.html
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Anyhow, the car is long gone, but I would love to build one or one
                                                                                          > like it....If anyone knows a Binkley name (if it is Binkley) or
                                                                                          stock
                                                                                          > number for such a car, that would be a big help. These cars were
                                                                                          > built by dad around 1959-1963.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Thanks-
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Garrett
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1329 From: Garrett W. Rea Date: 4/1/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Binkley (I think) passenger car question
                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "erieberk" <erieberk@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Garrett, Not exactly sure what you mean by one of the "windows"
                                                                                          have
                                                                                          > disappeared, and you're looking for a spare "window", unless you
                                                                                          mean
                                                                                          > the whole car side (with windows).

                                                                                          Sorry, should have been more clear: just the window frame itself,
                                                                                          they are cast metal. Your discription of the car makes me think it
                                                                                          might be the second one, as this car, while short (not in front of
                                                                                          me, but less than 60' scale feet) it did have a FULL vestibule, made
                                                                                          of cast metal and the sides were pre-painted cardstock as you pointed
                                                                                          out. He put a full Walthers interior in it and an elaborate lighting
                                                                                          system powered by AAA batteries in the roof. The switch was the
                                                                                          smokestack. I think he built it while in Monterrey, CA, when he
                                                                                          taught at the Navy PG school and he was living near John Allen, and
                                                                                          got a few chances to operate on his layout.

                                                                                          > The matching Binkley combination is listed as "1890 Combine", and
                                                                                          is
                                                                                          > catalog number P-23. If you're not sure whether the cars are
                                                                                          > Binkley, just check the sides material.

                                                                                          My father remembers it being Binkley, but then he admits he cannot
                                                                                          always remember what he did five minutes ago either.

                                                                                          Thanks, now to find one of these cars (or at least the ends).

                                                                                          Garrett
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1330 From: erieberk Date: 4/1/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Binkley (I think) passenger car question
                                                                                          If, as you're saying here, the Obs is less than 60' it must be the
                                                                                          first one (P-21), as, to remind you again, the second one (P-23) is
                                                                                          80 scale feet. As mentioned though, the vestibule does look like its
                                                                                          the narrow type, but then the photo is taken on a 3/4 angle from the
                                                                                          opposite end (the rear -- open platform end) and could be deceiving --
                                                                                          it could be a full vestibule, can't swear to it; while I have about
                                                                                          90% of what Binkley produced in kits, I do not have that car. Now,
                                                                                          if you're looking for just the end, as I think you're saying, the
                                                                                          open platform end (part # B-152) is the same on both cars, although
                                                                                          good luck trying to find it. Better off trying to locate a junker
                                                                                          car. Incidentally, the castings for the double arched windows is
                                                                                          part # B-6. The single arched window for the Obs end is part # B-
                                                                                          20. That interior and lighting system sounds great, and to have
                                                                                          operated on John Allen's layout had to be some terrific opportunity;
                                                                                          real interesting. Ray
                                                                                          \
                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Garrett W. Rea" <Garrett.Rea@...>
                                                                                          wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "erieberk" <erieberk@> wrote:
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > Garrett, Not exactly sure what you mean by one of the "windows"
                                                                                          > have
                                                                                          > > disappeared, and you're looking for a spare "window", unless you
                                                                                          > mean
                                                                                          > > the whole car side (with windows).
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Sorry, should have been more clear: just the window frame itself,
                                                                                          > they are cast metal. Your discription of the car makes me think it
                                                                                          > might be the second one, as this car, while short (not in front of
                                                                                          > me, but less than 60' scale feet) it did have a FULL vestibule,
                                                                                          made
                                                                                          > of cast metal and the sides were pre-painted cardstock as you
                                                                                          pointed
                                                                                          > out. He put a full Walthers interior in it and an elaborate
                                                                                          lighting
                                                                                          > system powered by AAA batteries in the roof. The switch was the
                                                                                          > smokestack. I think he built it while in Monterrey, CA, when he
                                                                                          > taught at the Navy PG school and he was living near John Allen, and
                                                                                          > got a few chances to operate on his layout.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > > The matching Binkley combination is listed as "1890 Combine", and
                                                                                          > is
                                                                                          > > catalog number P-23. If you're not sure whether the cars are
                                                                                          > > Binkley, just check the sides
                                                                                          material.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > My father remembers it being Binkley, but then he admits he cannot
                                                                                          > always remember what he did five minutes ago either.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Thanks, now to find one of these cars (or at least the ends).
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Garrett
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1331 From: Garrett W. Rea Date: 4/1/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Binkley (I think) passenger car question
                                                                                          Hello Ray:

                                                                                          > If, as you're saying here, the Obs is less than 60' it must be the
                                                                                          > first one (P-21), as, to remind you again, the second one (P-23) is
                                                                                          > 80 scale feet. As mentioned though, the vestibule does look like
                                                                                          its
                                                                                          > the narrow type, but then the photo is taken on a 3/4 angle from
                                                                                          the
                                                                                          > opposite end (the rear -- open platform end) and could be
                                                                                          deceiving --

                                                                                          OK, thanks for that point. Next time I talk to dad I will get him to
                                                                                          send me a couple photos of the car and I will post them in the
                                                                                          files/photos section.

                                                                                          Now,
                                                                                          > if you're looking for just the end, as I think you're saying, the
                                                                                          > open platform end (part # B-152) is the same on both cars, although
                                                                                          > good luck trying to find it. Better off trying to locate a junker
                                                                                          > car.

                                                                                          OK, I just read an article in an old Model Railroader that mentioned
                                                                                          the narrow arrangement on a Red Ball kit, one in the same?

                                                                                          Actually, I bet the car end is probably around somewhere in his mess
                                                                                          of stuff. We "parted out" the combine when he scratchbuilt his
                                                                                          baggage.

                                                                                          Incidentally, the castings for the double arched windows is
                                                                                          > part # B-6. The single arched window for the Obs end is part # B-
                                                                                          > 20.

                                                                                          Thanks, I am sure the chances of finding one are silm and none these
                                                                                          days?

                                                                                          That interior and lighting system sounds great, and to have
                                                                                          > operated on John Allen's layout had to be some terrific
                                                                                          opportunity;
                                                                                          > real interesting.

                                                                                          Yes, a few guys got to operate there back then.

                                                                                          Garrett
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1332 From: Wobbly913 Date: 4/1/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Binkley passenger cars
                                                                                          As a bit of a side note to this discussion, there are currently 5 unbuilt Binkley passenger car kits available on ebay. At this time the bid is at $19.95 to $19.99 for these cars. I am interested in bidding on them, but I have no idea what they are worth.  Any comments on their value?
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Wobbly913

                                                                                          "Garrett W. Rea" <Garrett.Rea@...> wrote:
                                                                                          Hello Ray:

                                                                                          > If, as you're saying here, the Obs is less than 60' it must be the
                                                                                          > first one (P-21), as, to remind you again, the second one (P-23) is
                                                                                          > 80 scale feet.  As mentioned though, the vestibule does look like
                                                                                          its
                                                                                          > the narrow type, but then the photo is taken on a 3/4 angle from
                                                                                          the
                                                                                          > opposite end (the rear -- open platform end) and could be
                                                                                          deceiving --

                                                                                          OK, thanks for that point.  Next time I talk to dad I will get him to
                                                                                          send me a couple photos of the car and I will post them in the
                                                                                          files/photos section.

                                                                                          Now,
                                                                                          > if you're looking for just the end, as I think you're saying, the
                                                                                          > open platform end (part # B-152) is the same on both cars, although
                                                                                          > good luck trying to find it. Better off trying to locate a junker
                                                                                          > car. 

                                                                                          OK, I just read an article in an old Model Railroader that mentioned
                                                                                          the narrow arrangement on a Red Ball kit, one in the same?

                                                                                          Actually, I bet the car end is probably around somewhere in his mess
                                                                                          of stuff.  We "parted out" the combine when he scratchbuilt his
                                                                                          baggage.

                                                                                          Incidentally, the castings for the double arched windows is
                                                                                          > part # B-6.  The single arched window for the Obs end is part # B-
                                                                                          > 20. 

                                                                                          Thanks, I am sure the chances of finding one are silm and none these
                                                                                          days?

                                                                                          That interior and lighting system sounds great, and to have
                                                                                          > operated on John Allen's layout had to be some terrific
                                                                                          opportunity;
                                                                                          > real interesting.

                                                                                          Yes, a few guys got to operate there back then.

                                                                                          Garrett                             






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                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1333 From: wgnrr423 Date: 4/2/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Binkley (I think) passenger car question
                                                                                          I believe these might be the "narrow vestibule" cars you are talking
                                                                                          about. You can see the pics in the Phil's Models section of
                                                                                          vintageHO. Pictured is a coach, and possibly the observation you
                                                                                          need a part for. Also pictured is a baggage car, that has a narrow
                                                                                          vestibule on one end, and a open vestibule on the other. One neat
                                                                                          feature of the cars is that in the top of the windows there is a
                                                                                          green tint. There was just one of the coaches on eBay last week.
                                                                                          Didn't check how much it went for. It was in kit form. And there was
                                                                                          a Combine, just like these, on there also about 1/2 month ago. It
                                                                                          went for $20, and it was already built. It tempted me, but I wasn't
                                                                                          home to bid on it. I'm trying to find old wood passenger cars, at
                                                                                          good prices. Sort of a side hobby to my logging railroad.

                                                                                          Phil



                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "erieberk" <erieberk@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > If, as you're saying here, the Obs is less than 60' it must be the
                                                                                          > first one (P-21), as, to remind you again, the second one (P-23)
                                                                                          is
                                                                                          > 80 scale feet. As mentioned though, the vestibule does look like
                                                                                          its
                                                                                          > the narrow type, but then the photo is taken on a 3/4 angle from
                                                                                          the
                                                                                          > opposite end (the rear -- open platform end) and could be
                                                                                          deceiving --
                                                                                          > it could be a full vestibule, can't swear to it; while I have
                                                                                          about
                                                                                          > 90% of what Binkley produced in kits, I do not have that car.
                                                                                          Now,
                                                                                          > if you're looking for just the end, as I think you're saying, the
                                                                                          > open platform end (part # B-152) is the same on both cars,
                                                                                          although
                                                                                          > good luck trying to find it. Better off trying to locate a junker
                                                                                          > car. Incidentally, the castings for the double arched windows is
                                                                                          > part # B-6. The single arched window for the Obs end is part # B-
                                                                                          > 20. That interior and lighting system sounds great, and to have
                                                                                          > operated on John Allen's layout had to be some terrific
                                                                                          opportunity;
                                                                                          > real interesting. Ray
                                                                                          > \
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1334 From: wgnrr423 Date: 4/2/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Binkley (I think) passenger car question
                                                                                          *This might be a duplicate*

                                                                                          I believe these might be the "narrow vestibule" cars you are talking
                                                                                          about. You can see the pics in the Phil's Models section of
                                                                                          vintageHO. Pictured is a coach, and possibly the observation you
                                                                                          need a part for. Also pictured is a bagage car, that has a narrow
                                                                                          vesibule on one end, and a open vestibule on the other. One neat
                                                                                          feature of the cars is that in the top of the windows there is a
                                                                                          green tint. There was just one of the coaches on eBay last week.
                                                                                          Didn't check how much it went for. It was in kit form. And there was
                                                                                          a Combine, just like these, on there too about 1/2 month ago. It
                                                                                          went for $20, and it was already built. It tempted me, but I wasn't
                                                                                          home to bid on it. I'm trying to find old wood passenger cars, at
                                                                                          good prices. Sort of a side hobby to my logging railroad.

                                                                                          Phil



                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Garrett W. Rea" <Garrett.Rea@...>
                                                                                          wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Hello Ray:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > > If, as you're saying here, the Obs is less than 60' it must be
                                                                                          the
                                                                                          > > first one (P-21), as, to remind you again, the second one (P-23)
                                                                                          is
                                                                                          > > 80 scale feet. As mentioned though, the vestibule does look
                                                                                          like
                                                                                          > its
                                                                                          > > the narrow type, but then the photo is taken on a 3/4 angle from
                                                                                          > the
                                                                                          > > opposite end (the rear -- open platform end) and could be
                                                                                          > deceiving --
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > OK, thanks for that point. Next time I talk to dad I will get him
                                                                                          to
                                                                                          > send me a couple photos of the car and I will post them in the
                                                                                          > files/photos section.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Now,
                                                                                          > > if you're looking for just the end, as I think you're saying,
                                                                                          the
                                                                                          > > open platform end (part # B-152) is the same on both cars,
                                                                                          although
                                                                                          > > good luck trying to find it. Better off trying to locate a
                                                                                          junker
                                                                                          > > car.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > OK, I just read an article in an old Model Railroader that
                                                                                          mentioned
                                                                                          > the narrow arrangement on a Red Ball kit, one in the same?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Actually, I bet the car end is probably around somewhere in his
                                                                                          mess
                                                                                          > of stuff. We "parted out" the combine when he scratchbuilt his
                                                                                          > baggage.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Incidentally, the castings for the double arched windows is
                                                                                          > > part # B-6. The single arched window for the Obs end is part #
                                                                                          B-
                                                                                          > > 20.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Thanks, I am sure the chances of finding one are silm and none
                                                                                          these
                                                                                          > days?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > That interior and lighting system sounds great, and to have
                                                                                          > > operated on John Allen's layout had to be some terrific
                                                                                          > opportunity;
                                                                                          > > real interesting.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Yes, a few guys got to operate there back then.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Garrett
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1335 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/2/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Moderated posts (was"Re: Binkley (I think) passenger car questi
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          From: wgnrr423 <wgnrr423@...>
                                                                                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                          Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 11:49 PM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Binkley (I think) passenger car question


                                                                                          > *This might be a duplicate*
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > I believe these might be the "narrow vestibule" cars you are talking

                                                                                          (text deleted)

                                                                                          Yes it is a duplicate. The reason your first post didn't appear right away
                                                                                          is because it was the first time you posted to the group. (I approved both
                                                                                          messages just so I could have an excuse to explain this, since some member's
                                                                                          may wonder.)

                                                                                          New member's posts are moderated, meaning I or one of the other moderators
                                                                                          have to approve them. Once I see a post from a new member that's on topic,
                                                                                          I take them off moderation, As I've done with you now) which means their
                                                                                          posts go to the list right away (or what Yahoo calls right away, occasional
                                                                                          messages are delayed through Yahoo's servers just because of bandwidth
                                                                                          issues).

                                                                                          You'll notice a distinct lack of spam on this list. That's why. :-)

                                                                                          Don

                                                                                          don.dellmann@...
                                                                                          http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                          moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1336 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/2/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Binkley passenger cars
                                                                                          I assume you're talking about $19.95 EACH. That's a little more than I
                                                                                          would pay, but probably a fair price if they're complete and undamaged. It
                                                                                          depends how badly you want them. I paid that for my Varney Ostuco gondola,
                                                                                          but then I wanted it pretty bad, but not bad enough not to shop,. I've seen
                                                                                          that car (the Varney) go for as much as $75.00, but patience paid off.
                                                                                          (Same with my Thomas wine car, I'd been going as high as $40 but kept
                                                                                          getting outbid, then all of a sudden I lucked out on an unbult kit for $20.)

                                                                                          Don

                                                                                          don.dellmann@...
                                                                                          http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                          moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO

                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          From: Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...>
                                                                                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                          Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 12:23 AM
                                                                                          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Binkley passenger cars


                                                                                          > As a bit of a side note to this discussion, there are currently 5 unbuilt
                                                                                          Binkley passenger car kits available on ebay. At this time the bid is at
                                                                                          $19.95 to $19.99 for these cars. I am interested in bidding on them, but I
                                                                                          have no idea what they are worth. Any comments on their value?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Wobbly913
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > "Garrett W. Rea" <Garrett.Rea@...> wrote:
                                                                                          > Hello Ray:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > > If, as you're saying here, the Obs is less than 60' it must be the
                                                                                          > > first one (P-21), as, to remind you again, the second one (P-23) is
                                                                                          > > 80 scale feet. As mentioned though, the vestibule does look like
                                                                                          > its
                                                                                          > > the narrow type, but then the photo is taken on a 3/4 angle from
                                                                                          > the
                                                                                          > > opposite end (the rear -- open platform end) and could be
                                                                                          > deceiving --
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > OK, thanks for that point. Next time I talk to dad I will get him to
                                                                                          > send me a couple photos of the car and I will post them in the
                                                                                          > files/photos section.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Now,
                                                                                          > > if you're looking for just the end, as I think you're saying, the
                                                                                          > > open platform end (part # B-152) is the same on both cars, although
                                                                                          > > good luck trying to find it. Better off trying to locate a junker
                                                                                          > > car.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > OK, I just read an article in an old Model Railroader that mentioned
                                                                                          > the narrow arrangement on a Red Ball kit, one in the same?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Actually, I bet the car end is probably around somewhere in his mess
                                                                                          > of stuff. We "parted out" the combine when he scratchbuilt his
                                                                                          > baggage.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Incidentally, the castings for the double arched windows is
                                                                                          > > part # B-6. The single arched window for the Obs end is part # B-
                                                                                          > > 20.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Thanks, I am sure the chances of finding one are silm and none these
                                                                                          > days?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > That interior and lighting system sounds great, and to have
                                                                                          > > operated on John Allen's layout had to be some terrific
                                                                                          > opportunity;
                                                                                          > > real interesting.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Yes, a few guys got to operate there back then.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Garrett
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
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                                                                                          > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Visit your group "vintageHO" on the web.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                          > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > ---------------------------------
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > ---------------------------------
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                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1337 From: erieberk Date: 4/2/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Binkley (I think) passenger car question
                                                                                          While the sides for the Red Ball Period passenger cars are also the
                                                                                          same composition (heavy cardstock) and pre-painted and printed, they
                                                                                          are similar but not one and the same (as Binkley). For one thing,
                                                                                          the window configuration is 12 large windows (not arched) and the car
                                                                                          ends do not at all match Binkley. Ray
                                                                                          \
                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Garrett W. Rea" <Garrett.Rea@...>
                                                                                          wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Hello Ray:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > > If, as you're saying here, the Obs is less than 60' it must be
                                                                                          the
                                                                                          > > first one (P-21), as, to remind you again, the second one (P-23)
                                                                                          is
                                                                                          > > 80 scale feet. As mentioned though, the vestibule does look like
                                                                                          > its
                                                                                          > > the narrow type, but then the photo is taken on a 3/4 angle from
                                                                                          > the
                                                                                          > > opposite end (the rear -- open platform end) and could be
                                                                                          > deceiving --
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > OK, thanks for that point. Next time I talk to dad I will get him
                                                                                          to
                                                                                          > send me a couple photos of the car and I will post them in the
                                                                                          > files/photos section.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Now,
                                                                                          > > if you're looking for just the end, as I think you're saying, the
                                                                                          > > open platform end (part # B-152) is the same on both cars,
                                                                                          although
                                                                                          > > good luck trying to find it. Better off trying to locate a junker
                                                                                          > > car.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > OK, I just read an article in an old Model Railroader that
                                                                                          mentioned
                                                                                          > the narrow arrangement on a Red Ball kit, one in the same?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Actually, I bet the car end is probably around somewhere in his
                                                                                          mess
                                                                                          > of stuff. We "parted out" the combine when he scratchbuilt his
                                                                                          > baggage.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Incidentally, the castings for the double arched windows is
                                                                                          > > part # B-6. The single arched window for the Obs end is part # B-
                                                                                          > > 20.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Thanks, I am sure the chances of finding one are silm and none
                                                                                          these
                                                                                          > days?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > That interior and lighting system sounds great, and to have
                                                                                          > > operated on John Allen's layout had to be some terrific
                                                                                          > opportunity;
                                                                                          > > real interesting.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Yes, a few guys got to operate there back then.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Garrett
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1338 From: erieberk Date: 4/2/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Binkley passenger cars
                                                                                          Looks like that Binkley Obs kit on eBay is in fact the P-21, and
                                                                                          while it shows the sides having 8 large window openings, these
                                                                                          openings take double-window inserts making 16 windows. I'd go along
                                                                                          with Don on their value, depending upon how bad someone wants them
                                                                                          and considering that they're scarce, especially in unbuilt kit form.
                                                                                          Probably rarer than most of the Binkley freight cars, as most
                                                                                          modelers had freight but not every modeler had passenger equipment.
                                                                                          Ray
                                                                                          \
                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > As a bit of a side note to this discussion, there are currently 5
                                                                                          unbuilt Binkley passenger car kits available on ebay. At this time
                                                                                          the bid is at $19.95 to $19.99 for these cars. I am interested in
                                                                                          bidding on them, but I have no idea what they are worth. Any
                                                                                          comments on their value?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Wobbly913
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > "Garrett W. Rea" <Garrett.Rea@...> wrote:
                                                                                          > Hello Ray:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > > If, as you're saying here, the Obs is less than 60' it must be
                                                                                          the
                                                                                          > > first one (P-21), as, to remind you again, the second one (P-23)
                                                                                          is
                                                                                          > > 80 scale feet. As mentioned though, the vestibule does look like
                                                                                          > its
                                                                                          > > the narrow type, but then the photo is taken on a 3/4 angle from
                                                                                          > the
                                                                                          > > opposite end (the rear -- open platform end) and could be
                                                                                          > deceiving --
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > OK, thanks for that point. Next time I talk to dad I will get him
                                                                                          to
                                                                                          > send me a couple photos of the car and I will post them in the
                                                                                          > files/photos section.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Now,
                                                                                          > > if you're looking for just the end, as I think you're saying, the
                                                                                          > > open platform end (part # B-152) is the same on both cars,
                                                                                          although
                                                                                          > > good luck trying to find it. Better off trying to locate a junker
                                                                                          > > car.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > OK, I just read an article in an old Model Railroader that
                                                                                          mentioned
                                                                                          > the narrow arrangement on a Red Ball kit, one in the same?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Actually, I bet the car end is probably around somewhere in his
                                                                                          mess
                                                                                          > of stuff. We "parted out" the combine when he scratchbuilt his
                                                                                          > baggage.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Incidentally, the castings for the double arched windows is
                                                                                          > > part # B-6. The single arched window for the Obs end is part # B-
                                                                                          > > 20.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Thanks, I am sure the chances of finding one are silm and none
                                                                                          these
                                                                                          > days?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > That interior and lighting system sounds great, and to have
                                                                                          > > operated on John Allen's layout had to be some terrific
                                                                                          > opportunity;
                                                                                          > > real interesting.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Yes, a few guys got to operate there back then.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Garrett
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > ---------------------------------
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                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Visit your group "vintageHO" on the web.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                          > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                          Service.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > ---------------------------------
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > ---------------------------------
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                                                                                          rates.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1339 From: Rick Jones Date: 4/2/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Binkley passenger cars
                                                                                          Wobbly913 wrote:
                                                                                          > As a bit of a side note to this discussion, there are currently 5
                                                                                          > unbuilt Binkley passenger car kits available on ebay. At this time the
                                                                                          > bid is at $19.95 to $19.99 for these cars. I am interested in bidding on
                                                                                          > them, but I have no idea what they are worth. Any comments on their value?

                                                                                          As it is in all types of auctions, what it's worth is what you feel
                                                                                          you're willing to pay for it. That may be different than what the other
                                                                                          bidders are willing to pay.

                                                                                          --

                                                                                          Rick Jones

                                                                                          The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad
                                                                                          http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/

                                                                                          The more you run over a cat, the flatter it gets.
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1340 From: Glenn Date: 4/2/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Binkley (I think) passenger car question
                                                                                          A suggestion for the window frame--if you're good friends with a dentist, a quick mold of impression compound and the part can be done in the acrylic used for dentures.  Bob Chait has an NMRA Tape-Slide clinic on the process of using dental materials for castings.  gj
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 9:23 PM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Binkley (I think) passenger car question

                                                                                          Hello Ray:

                                                                                          > If, as you're saying here, the Obs is less than 60' it must be the
                                                                                          > first one (P-21), as, to remind you again, the second one (P-23) is
                                                                                          > 80 scale feet.  As mentioned though, the vestibule does look like
                                                                                          its
                                                                                          > the narrow type, but then the photo is taken on a 3/4 angle from
                                                                                          the
                                                                                          > opposite end (the rear -- open platform end) and could be
                                                                                          deceiving --

                                                                                          OK, thanks for that point.  Next time I talk to dad I will get him to
                                                                                          send me a couple photos of the car and I will post them in the
                                                                                          files/photos section.

                                                                                          Now,
                                                                                          > if you're looking for just the end, as I think you're saying, the
                                                                                          > open platform end (part # B-152) is the same on both cars, although
                                                                                          > good luck trying to find it. Better off trying to locate a junker
                                                                                          > car. 

                                                                                          OK, I just read an article in an old Model Railroader that mentioned
                                                                                          the narrow arrangement on a Red Ball kit, one in the same?

                                                                                          Actually, I bet the car end is probably around somewhere in his mess
                                                                                          of stuff.  We "parted out" the combine when he scratchbuilt his
                                                                                          baggage.

                                                                                          Incidentally, the castings for the double arched windows is
                                                                                          > part # B-6.  The single arched window for the Obs end is part # B-
                                                                                          > 20. 

                                                                                          Thanks, I am sure the chances of finding one are silm and none these
                                                                                          days?

                                                                                          That interior and lighting system sounds great, and to have
                                                                                          > operated on John Allen's layout had to be some terrific
                                                                                          opportunity;
                                                                                          > real interesting.

                                                                                          Yes, a few guys got to operate there back then.

                                                                                          Garrett                             




                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1341 From: Garrett W. Rea Date: 4/3/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Binkley Bits, eBay cars,
                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Rick Jones <rtjones@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Wobbly913 wrote:
                                                                                          > > As a bit of a side note to this discussion, there are currently 5
                                                                                          > > unbuilt Binkley passenger car kits available on ebay. At this
                                                                                          time the
                                                                                          > > bid is at $19.95 to $19.99 for these cars. I am interested in
                                                                                          bidding on
                                                                                          > > them, but I have no idea what they are worth. Any comments on
                                                                                          their value?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > As it is in all types of auctions, what it's worth is what you
                                                                                          feel
                                                                                          > you're willing to pay for it. That may be different than what the
                                                                                          other
                                                                                          > bidders are willing to pay.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > --
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Rick Jones

                                                                                          Well, they have been listed before with no takers, check completed
                                                                                          listings.

                                                                                          Someone on the list offered to help on the windows, thanks!

                                                                                          Now to see if I can find the end bits, I want to make a narrow
                                                                                          vestibule car, but I found a 1971 Model Railroader on kitbashing
                                                                                          LaBelle cars in this manner, probably easier than trying to morph the
                                                                                          Binkley end to (brand X) car anyhow.

                                                                                          Garrett Rea
                                                                                          Nashville, TN
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1342 From: Garrett Rea Date: 4/4/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Binkley photos and "retro" HO photos
                                                                                          All:

                                                                                          I have posted photos of my dad's Binkley cars and two shots taken in 1963.
                                                                                          Check the photos under "Binkley/Fred Rea 1963 photos"

                                                                                          The business car shots are current. It was hand lettered (rub on letters,
                                                                                          he also modelled the "Bellaire Zanesville and Cincinnati" and wonders now
                                                                                          how he did it) for the Cleveland and Marietta (which later became the PRR)
                                                                                          and was named "Tuscarawas". As one can see in the photos, 45+ years of wet
                                                                                          basements have taken their toll on the cardboard. I would love to use some
                                                                                          LaBelle arch window parts and restore the car for him.

                                                                                          From dad: "Note it is sans couplers. Also I sure need to paint the lenses
                                                                                          on the rear
                                                                                          track lights. BTW, they make it a business car, not a private or public
                                                                                          obs. I sure wish those old Walthers interiors were available. Two bucks
                                                                                          and you had many evenings with a paint brush and colored pencils.

                                                                                          Note I hollowed out the roof to hold a bunch of AAA batteries. The
                                                                                          brass smoke jack (now missing) was the switch. It was the only (Model
                                                                                          Railroad) thing
                                                                                          I built during grad school (Cornell). That, and a few (Model Railroader
                                                                                          magazines) were all we moved to Monterey. Quite a bit more came back. But,
                                                                                          it all fit in a small movers box. No more!"

                                                                                          Now, fast forward (backward?) to 1963. Photos (digital scans of slides)
                                                                                          taken either in CA or WI, I cannot remember when he made that move.

                                                                                          First shot is the combine: "Looking at the obs roof I know why I hated the
                                                                                          combine kit. The obs had castings for the roof ends. The combine had a
                                                                                          single piece of clerestory roof stock. Instructions were to do the obvious,
                                                                                          but not easy, carving. I wrote an angry letter and asked to buy some
                                                                                          castings from the obs. He said, politely, tough shi..(sorry dad, family
                                                                                          list here).

                                                                                          So, I think, I built up a roof with an open clerestory. "

                                                                                          Then, the final photo:

                                                                                          "I don't know if you have seen, or remember this slide. Taken in the
                                                                                          Spring of '63, jut before I got the Ma&Pa (PFM) and the circle of snap track
                                                                                          (code 100 on True-Scale roadbed, painted grey).

                                                                                          Note how much of the stuff in the photo has survived for 43 years.

                                                                                          First, the redwood planter box is still here. Starting on the left upper
                                                                                          shelf:: The Binkley obs, and the combine (deceased). Underneath the
                                                                                          trestle is the Central Valley ventilated box car (on my display shelf)
                                                                                          and HEY! Is the tender of the Ma & Pa under the trestle too? That
                                                                                          makes it late Spring, post May 6.. The trestle itself is long gone. So
                                                                                          is the Ambroid 1:5000 covered hopper. It was of modern vintage but I
                                                                                          chopped it down to sort of back date it. It was a gift. Next is the gon,
                                                                                          my first scratch built car from an MR article. It is at the ash pit on
                                                                                          my (current) layout. Next is a 4 truck flat, also from an MR article. It
                                                                                          is on
                                                                                          my layout, but only two trucks now. And lastly, the KD logging
                                                                                          caboose. Their first car. I then got their skeleton log car in June of
                                                                                          '64, not in the photo but on my layout.

                                                                                          The structures on the lower shelf all survive, (Alexander PRR depot, Dyna
                                                                                          meat market, and some Sydum "wild west" stuff) but not all are on my layout.

                                                                                          Ah..nostalgia"

                                                                                          Hope you enjoy the photos, and if you have questions, please ask.

                                                                                          Garrett Rea
                                                                                          Nashville, TN
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1343 From: jerrygart5 Date: 4/4/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Binkley photos and "retro" HO photos
                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Garrett Rea" <Garrett.Rea@...>
                                                                                          wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > All:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > I have posted photos of my dad's Binkley cars and two shots taken
                                                                                          in 1963.
                                                                                          > Check the photos under "Binkley/Fred Rea 1963 photos"
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Garrett: Some nice work here; yes, 40 + years takes a toll on
                                                                                          stuff (unless you hide it away, never run it, thus never enjoy it!).
                                                                                          Just shows there was some active model railroading going on here. A
                                                                                          lot of time and devotion shows in the construction.

                                                                                          I used a lot of the Walthers interiors (cast in lead as I recall);
                                                                                          neat stuff for virtually every car configuration available then. In
                                                                                          addition to the "eye candy" it provided for a car, also added some
                                                                                          (usually necessary) weight as well. My guess is that the molds for
                                                                                          this stuff were thrown out long ago when "the changing of the guard"
                                                                                          occurrred and they started concentration on the plastic stuff. It
                                                                                          all used to be cast in house; now the place is just a big warehouse
                                                                                          for stuff from China, et. al. But, that is the "market"
                                                                                          today. . . .

                                                                                          I think the suggestion made about casting the missing pieces in
                                                                                          dental molds is an excellent idea. There have also been several
                                                                                          articles on making castings in the commercial press, and that may
                                                                                          also be a method that can restore your cars. It's great that you
                                                                                          and your Dad want to preserve a bit of the past, and be able to show
                                                                                          how durable some of this equipment really is. I wish you success in
                                                                                          your efforts!

                                                                                          Regards, JerryG.
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1344 From: Garrett W. Rea Date: 4/4/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Another retro photo posted
                                                                                          All:

                                                                                          I just posted a close up of the bridge.

                                                                                          I will bug dad when I visit him for his 68th birthday and see what
                                                                                          else he may have. He did take color slides of B&O steam in the 1950s,
                                                                                          but that is for another list....

                                                                                          Garrett Rea
                                                                                          Nashville, TN
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1345 From: AL Date: 4/5/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Digest Number 310
                                                                                          > I used a lot of the Walthers interiors (cast in lead as I recall);
                                                                                          > neat stuff for virtually every car configuration available then. In
                                                                                          > addition to the "eye candy" it provided for a car, also added some
                                                                                          > (usually necessary) weight as well. My guess is that the molds for
                                                                                          > this stuff were thrown out long ago when "the changing of the guard"
                                                                                          > occurrred and they started concentration on the plastic stuff. It
                                                                                          > all used to be cast in house; now the place is just a big warehouse
                                                                                          > for stuff from China, et. al. But, that is the "market"
                                                                                          > today. . . .

                                                                                          Regarding the Walthers interior parts .... are these the ones witht he
                                                                                          individual cast chairs / seats , and other pcs ?

                                                                                          Reason for asking, is a semi-local shop has quite a bit of older
                                                                                          odds-n-ends ( including a fair ommount of original Kemtron castings), they
                                                                                          definately had some o fthe cast metal seats, although ,iirc, they were
                                                                                          rebagged, so not sure the correct vintage .
                                                                                          They also had 3-4 pair of the old cast boxcar ends which I am now going to
                                                                                          build into old-school cars when I get time ( one set of , I believe Quality
                                                                                          Craft or Ambroid Railbox ends, a pair walthers 'wood' double sheathed ends,
                                                                                          a few end sills ( might be Red ball or similar ).

                                                                                          I can;t guarantee the seats are walther's but if anyone is interested, drop
                                                                                          me a line and I can check / get pricing .

                                                                                          Also, will ing to accept ' wish lists' ( of realistic size, lol ), for the
                                                                                          Kemtron pcs I know they have, also quite an assortment of old Champ decals.

                                                                                          ~ AL
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1346 From: AL Date: 4/5/2006
                                                                                          Subject: J English Yardbird
                                                                                          I posted a few photos of the J. Emglish Yardbird 'as found' at the
                                                                                          club auction.

                                                                                          Will have to pull her apart and see how bad inside / frame,etc -
                                                                                          doesn't look corroded or abused, just old and somewhat dirty.
                                                                                          Non-running at present but will make for a nice restoration.

                                                                                          Also appears to have had some added detail already (open to input on
                                                                                          that / what's missing / what's been added ) .

                                                                                          Not sure when I'll get to it , soon I hope ( like I need any mnore
                                                                                          projects, lol )

                                                                                          ~ AL
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1347 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 4/5/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Digest Number 310

                                                                                          Al-yes, these are the individual castings.  For some of the details, they also used small wooden blocks (like for baggage car desks/lockers).   I would not be surprised if they are rebagged; the original bags deteriorated after 3-4 years.    I would be interested in what is available/pricing, if you don’t mind.  I will pay any costs associated with shipping.  Please email me direct at  jerryg@....   Thanks!   Jerry Garteiser

                                                                                           


                                                                                          From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of AL
                                                                                          Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 4:55 PM
                                                                                          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Digest Number 310

                                                                                           


                                                                                          > I used a lot of the Walthers interiors (cast in lead as I recall);
                                                                                          > neat stuff for virtually every car configuration available then.  In
                                                                                          > addition to the "eye candy" it provided for a car, also added some
                                                                                          > (usually necessary) weight as well.  My guess is that the molds for
                                                                                          > this stuff were thrown out long ago when "the changing of the guard"
                                                                                          > occurrred and they started concentration on the plastic stuff. It
                                                                                          > all used to be cast in house; now the place is just a big warehouse
                                                                                          > for stuff from China , et. al.   But, that is the "market"
                                                                                          > today. . . .

                                                                                          Regarding the Walthers interior parts .... are these the ones witht he
                                                                                          individual cast chairs / seats , and other pcs ?

                                                                                          Reason for asking, is a semi-local shop has quite a bit of older
                                                                                          odds-n-ends ( including a fair ommount of original Kemtron castings), they
                                                                                          definately had some o fthe cast metal seats, although ,iirc, they were
                                                                                          rebagged, so not sure the correct vintage .
                                                                                          They also had 3-4 pair of the old cast boxcar ends which I am now going to
                                                                                          build into old-school cars when I get time ( one set of , I believe Quality
                                                                                          Craft or Ambroid Railbox ends, a pair walthers 'wood' double sheathed ends,
                                                                                          a few end sills ( might be Red ball or similar ).

                                                                                          I can;t guarantee the seats are walther's but if anyone is interested, drop
                                                                                          me a line and I can check / get pricing .

                                                                                          Also, will ing to accept ' wish lists' ( of realistic size, lol ), for the
                                                                                          Kemtron pcs I know they have, also quite an assortment of old Champ decals.

                                                                                          ~ AL


                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1348 From: Glenn Date: 4/5/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: J English Yardbird
                                                                                          Al, or anyone else interested, a fellow in our club has a Yard Bird, Major castings all there--some small parts missing--that is available--contact me off-list.  He also has a Bowser Challenger.  These are in an estate.  gj
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          From: AL
                                                                                          Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 3:11 PM
                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] J English Yardbird


                                                                                          I posted a few photos of the J. Emglish Yardbird 'as found' at the
                                                                                          club auction.

                                                                                          Will have to pull her apart and see how bad inside / frame,etc -
                                                                                          doesn't look corroded or abused, just old and somewhat dirty.
                                                                                          Non-running at present but will make for a nice restoration.

                                                                                          Also appears to have had some added detail already (open to input on
                                                                                          that / what's missing / what's been added ) .

                                                                                          Not sure when I'll get to it , soon I hope ( like I need any mnore
                                                                                          projects, lol )

                                                                                          ~ AL





                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1349 From: Glenn Date: 4/5/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Digest Number 310
                                                                                          I know that Keil Line got the O Scale parts line--possibly also the HO line.
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          From: AL
                                                                                          Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 2:55 PM
                                                                                          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Digest Number 310


                                                                                          > I used a lot of the Walthers interiors (cast in lead as I recall);
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1350 From: Paul Date: 4/7/2006
                                                                                          Subject: Looking for info on Thomas Industries
                                                                                          I have been concentrating on collecting Varney rolling stock; mostly
                                                                                          reefers. Going thru my father's box of vintage trains, I found a
                                                                                          gorgeous Thomas Indutries Tank car. I saw a similar tank car on ebay,
                                                                                          but it went for more than thought it would.

                                                                                          The Greenberg's Guide to Varney has been a huge help in determining
                                                                                          which cars I go after and how much to pay. Is there a similar book for
                                                                                          Thomas? Is there a website with info - ie production dates, etc.
                                                                                          (google doesn't turn up anything relevant)? Any help would be
                                                                                          appreciated. TIA -

                                                                                          Paul
                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1351 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/7/2006
                                                                                          Subject: PING Jack
                                                                                          Attachments :
                                                                                            Bet you wondered when I'd finish this one. Actually it was today when I
                                                                                            finally got to Walthers to pick up a pack of Kadee No.4's, since my LHS
                                                                                            didn't have any.

                                                                                            For others, this is an Ulrich model.

                                                                                            Don

                                                                                            don.dellmann@...
                                                                                            http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                            moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                            moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
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                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1352 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/7/2006
                                                                                            Subject: Re: Looking for info on Thomas Industries
                                                                                            Attachments :
                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                              From: Paul <varney_collector@...>
                                                                                              To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                              Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 8:28 AM
                                                                                              Subject: [vintageHO] Looking for info on Thomas Industries


                                                                                              > I have been concentrating on collecting Varney rolling stock; mostly
                                                                                              > reefers. Going thru my father's box of vintage trains, I found a
                                                                                              > gorgeous Thomas Indutries Tank car. I saw a similar tank car on ebay,
                                                                                              > but it went for more than thought it would.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > The Greenberg's Guide to Varney has been a huge help in determining
                                                                                              > which cars I go after and how much to pay. Is there a similar book for
                                                                                              > Thomas? Is there a website with info - ie production dates, etc.
                                                                                              > (google doesn't turn up anything relevant)? Any help would be
                                                                                              > appreciated. TIA -
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Paul

                                                                                              They were made by "Thomas Industries" of Shawnee, Oklahoma.

                                                                                              To my knowledge (although many others more knowledgable than I may know
                                                                                              otherwise) all they made were Tank cars, the most famous being the 6 dome
                                                                                              "Wine Car". ( a picture of mine, attached, also go to the group home page
                                                                                              photo albums, near the end is "zDon Dellmann's Stuff - Misc.")

                                                                                              I don't recall ever seeing them advertised for sale new much after 1961 or
                                                                                              so (they were a staple in the "AHC" ads in the front of MR in the late
                                                                                              50's.)

                                                                                              The six dome cars show up on eBay quite regularly, and usually sell for from
                                                                                              $20 - $40 (I lucked out on mine, got it as an unbuilt kit for $20).

                                                                                              Don

                                                                                              don.dellmann@...
                                                                                              http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                              moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1353 From: Roger Aultman Date: 4/7/2006
                                                                                              Subject: Re: Looking for info on Thomas Industries
                                                                                              Thomas Industries made H-0 and 0 scale along with some 0 tinplate,
                                                                                              they show up on eBay from time to time. Roger Aultman




                                                                                              Paul wrote:
                                                                                              > I have been concentrating on collecting Varney rolling stock; mostly
                                                                                              > reefers. Going thru my father's box of vintage trains, I found a
                                                                                              > gorgeous Thomas Indutries Tank car. I saw a similar tank car on ebay,
                                                                                              > but it went for more than thought it would.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > The Greenberg's Guide to Varney has been a huge help in determining
                                                                                              > which cars I go after and how much to pay. Is there a similar book for
                                                                                              > Thomas? Is there a website with info - ie production dates, etc.
                                                                                              > (google doesn't turn up anything relevant)? Any help would be
                                                                                              > appreciated. TIA -
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Paul
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >


                                                                                              --
                                                                                              http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

                                                                                              Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1354 From: Larry Date: 4/7/2006
                                                                                              Subject: Re: Looking for info on Thomas Industries
                                                                                              Hello Paul

                                                                                              I have been looking for information about Thomas Train Cars, too. I
                                                                                              agree with you these are very nice train cars. I have the Philgas
                                                                                              and APCO tank cars, but have no idea what other road names or freight
                                                                                              cars were made. I noticed that the Thomas tank car frames are almost
                                                                                              identical to the very old Mantua tank car frames. I do know that
                                                                                              Thomas Industries was located in Shawnee, Oklahoma but don't know
                                                                                              what years they made trains. If I find any information on them, I
                                                                                              will post it my website.

                                                                                              Larry
                                                                                              www.hoseeker.net

                                                                                              --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <varney_collector@...> wrote:
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > I have been concentrating on collecting Varney rolling stock;
                                                                                              mostly
                                                                                              > reefers. Going thru my father's box of vintage trains, I found a
                                                                                              > gorgeous Thomas Indutries Tank car. I saw a similar tank car on
                                                                                              ebay,
                                                                                              > but it went for more than thought it would.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > The Greenberg's Guide to Varney has been a huge help in determining
                                                                                              > which cars I go after and how much to pay. Is there a similar book
                                                                                              for
                                                                                              > Thomas? Is there a website with info - ie production dates, etc.
                                                                                              > (google doesn't turn up anything relevant)? Any help would be
                                                                                              > appreciated. TIA -
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Paul
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1355 From: Jack Priller Date: 4/7/2006
                                                                                              Subject: Re: PING Jack
                                                                                              So where did you hide the picture; un-stored attachments are hard to
                                                                                              view. :>))

                                                                                              Jack

                                                                                              --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
                                                                                              wrote:
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Bet you wondered when I'd finish this one. Actually it was today
                                                                                              when I
                                                                                              > finally got to Walthers to pick up a pack of Kadee No.4's, since my
                                                                                              LHS
                                                                                              > didn't have any.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > For others, this is an Ulrich model.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Don
                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1356 From: Garry Spear Date: 4/7/2006
                                                                                              Subject: Re: Looking for info on Thomas Industries
                                                                                              Thomas Metal Tank Car List

                                                                                              Tank Cars
                                                                                              Kit # RptMks
                                                                                              AM-706 NATX AmbroseWine 6303
                                                                                              A-701 APOX APCO 8295
                                                                                              B-705 GATX Baker's Chocolate 31058
                                                                                              D-701 SRDX DX Sunray 55
                                                                                              M-701 MPCX Magnolia Oil 1030
                                                                                              LP-702 PSPX Philgas 15001
                                                                                              LP-704 SDRX Sinclair 13168
                                                                                              LP-703 MAWX Mathieson Chemical 994
                                                                                              R-706 GATX Roma Wine 992
                                                                                              LP-707 GATX Columbia-Southern 3689
                                                                                              The Columbia-Southern comes in two color variations.

                                                                                              Garry Spear



                                                                                              On 4/7/06, Larry <seekingho@...> wrote:
                                                                                              > Hello Paul
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > I have been looking for information about Thomas Train Cars, too. I
                                                                                              > agree with you these are very nice train cars. I have the Philgas
                                                                                              > and APCO tank cars, but have no idea what other road names or freight
                                                                                              > cars were made. I noticed that the Thomas tank car frames are almost
                                                                                              > identical to the very old Mantua tank car frames. I do know that
                                                                                              > Thomas Industries was located in Shawnee, Oklahoma but don't know
                                                                                              > what years they made trains. If I find any information on them, I
                                                                                              > will post it my website.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Larry
                                                                                              > www.hoseeker.net
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <varney_collector@...> wrote:
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > > I have been concentrating on collecting Varney rolling stock;
                                                                                              > mostly
                                                                                              > > reefers. Going thru my father's box of vintage trains, I found a
                                                                                              > > gorgeous Thomas Indutries Tank car. I saw a similar tank car on
                                                                                              > ebay,
                                                                                              > > but it went for more than thought it would.
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > > The Greenberg's Guide to Varney has been a huge help in determining
                                                                                              > > which cars I go after and how much to pay. Is there a similar book
                                                                                              > for
                                                                                              > > Thomas? Is there a website with info - ie production dates, etc.
                                                                                              > > (google doesn't turn up anything relevant)? Any help would be
                                                                                              > > appreciated. TIA -
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > > Paul
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1357 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/7/2006
                                                                                              Subject: Re: PING Jack
                                                                                              In the photos section, near the end, an album "zDon Dellmann's Stuff -
                                                                                              Ulrich"

                                                                                              Don

                                                                                              don.dellmann@...
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                                                                                              moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              co-moderator: SCENERY@...
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                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO

                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                              From: Jack Priller <westpac67@...>
                                                                                              To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                              Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 2:53 PM
                                                                                              Subject: [vintageHO] Re: PING Jack


                                                                                              > So where did you hide the picture; un-stored attachments are hard to
                                                                                              > view. :>))
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Jack
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
                                                                                              > wrote:
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > > Bet you wondered when I'd finish this one. Actually it was today
                                                                                              > when I
                                                                                              > > finally got to Walthers to pick up a pack of Kadee No.4's, since my
                                                                                              > LHS
                                                                                              > > didn't have any.
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > > For others, this is an Ulrich model.
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > > Don
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > SPONSORED LINKS Ho scale G scale model train G scale train
                                                                                              > Ho scale model train Ho scale trains
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                              ------
                                                                                              > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > a.. Visit your group "vintageHO" on the web.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                              > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                              Service.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                              ------
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1358 From: Glenn Date: 4/7/2006
                                                                                              Subject: Re: Looking for info on Thomas Industries
                                                                                              I have quite a bit of Thomas. Mr Thomas was a partner witht hte Tylers in Mantua Metal Products--sometime after WWII he went his own way.  I think that the only HO car he made was the 6-dome ROMA WINE car.  In O I have the 1, 2, 3, and 6-dome cars, the bobber caboose, and theskeleton log car.  Motive power followed the designs of the Mantua locos--mixed stamped brass and die cast parts. They made a 17/64" O Scale B&O 0-4-0, a 1/4" O Scale freelance 2-8-0, and an O Tinplate 4-4-0 plus some deck-roofed open platform passenger cars to go with it. I lack examples of the latter. gj 
                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                              Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 10:18 AM
                                                                                              Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Looking for info on Thomas Industries

                                                                                              Thomas Industries made H-0 and 0 scale along with some 0 tinplate,
                                                                                              they show up on eBay from time to time.   Roger Aultman




                                                                                              Paul wrote:
                                                                                              > I have been concentrating on collecting Varney rolling stock; mostly
                                                                                              > reefers. Going thru my father's box of vintage trains, I found a
                                                                                              > gorgeous Thomas Indutries Tank car. I saw a similar tank car on ebay,
                                                                                              > but it went for more than thought it would.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > The Greenberg's Guide to Varney has been a huge help in determining
                                                                                              > which cars I go after and how much to pay. Is there a similar book for
                                                                                              > Thomas? Is there a website with info - ie production dates, etc.
                                                                                              > (google doesn't turn up anything relevant)? Any help would be
                                                                                              > appreciated. TIA -
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Paul
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >

                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >

                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >


                                                                                              --
                                                                                              http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

                                                                                              Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/



                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1359 From: Garry Spear Date: 4/7/2006
                                                                                              Subject: Re: Looking for info on Thomas Industries
                                                                                              Please see my previous message listing 10 different roadnames and one different color variation.  Total = 11 cars.  I own examples of all 11 cars.

                                                                                              Garry Spear

                                                                                              On 4/7/06, Glenn <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                              I have quite a bit of Thomas. Mr Thomas was a partner witht hte Tylers in Mantua Metal Products--sometime after WWII he went his own way.  I think that the only HO car he made was the 6-dome ROMA WINE car.  In O I have the 1, 2, 3, and 6-dome cars, the bobber caboose, and theskeleton log car.  Motive power followed the designs of the Mantua locos--mixed stamped brass and die cast parts. They made a 17/64" O Scale B&O 0-4-0, a 1/4" O Scale freelance 2-8-0, and an O Tinplate 4-4-0 plus some deck-roofed open platform passenger cars to go with it. I lack examples of the latter. gj 
                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                              Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 10:18 AM
                                                                                              Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Looking for info on Thomas Industries

                                                                                              Thomas Industries made H-0 and 0 scale along with some 0 tinplate,
                                                                                              they show up on eBay from time to time.   Roger Aultman




                                                                                              Paul wrote:
                                                                                              > I have been concentrating on collecting Varney rolling stock; mostly
                                                                                              > reefers. Going thru my father's box of vintage trains, I found a
                                                                                              > gorgeous Thomas Indutries Tank car. I saw a similar tank car on ebay,
                                                                                              > but it went for more than thought it would.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > The Greenberg's Guide to Varney has been a huge help in determining
                                                                                              > which cars I go after and how much to pay. Is there a similar book for
                                                                                              > Thomas? Is there a website with info - ie production dates, etc.
                                                                                              > (google doesn't turn up anything relevant)? Any help would be
                                                                                              > appreciated. TIA -
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Paul
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >

                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >

                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >


                                                                                              --
                                                                                              http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

                                                                                              Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/





                                                                                              SPONSORED LINKS
                                                                                              Ho scale G scale model train G scale train
                                                                                              Ho scale model train Ho scale trains


                                                                                              YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

                                                                                              •  Visit your group "vintageHO" on the web.
                                                                                                 
                                                                                               To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                               
                                                                                               Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1360 From: Jack Priller Date: 4/7/2006
                                                                                              Subject: Re: PING Jack
                                                                                              "I was blind, but now can see." Looks so much nicer actually on some
                                                                                              track.


                                                                                              Jack


                                                                                              --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
                                                                                              wrote:
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > In the photos section, near the end, an album "zDon Dellmann's
                                                                                              Stuff -
                                                                                              > Ulrich"
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Don
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1361 From: Lindley Ruddick Date: 4/8/2006
                                                                                              Subject: Heritage Models Gandy Dancers????
                                                                                              Anyone remember the Heritage Models Gandy Dancers series of HO figures
                                                                                              for the 1860-1910 period? I think the timing was early 1970's. Are thay
                                                                                              still produced? Anyone know the where abouts of the molds? There were
                                                                                              about 12 sets that retailed for $2.95. I have a painting guide that
                                                                                              also lists 1/2 oz. bottles of paint.
                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1362 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/8/2006
                                                                                              Subject: Re: PING Jack
                                                                                              Amazing the difference a little paint and some trucks & couplers can do.

                                                                                              Thanks again.

                                                                                              Don

                                                                                              don.dellmann@...
                                                                                              http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                              moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO

                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                              From: Jack Priller <westpac67@...>
                                                                                              To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                              Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 10:43 PM
                                                                                              Subject: [vintageHO] Re: PING Jack


                                                                                              > "I was blind, but now can see." Looks so much nicer actually on some
                                                                                              > track.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Jack
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
                                                                                              > wrote:
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > > In the photos section, near the end, an album "zDon Dellmann's
                                                                                              > Stuff -
                                                                                              > > Ulrich"
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > > Don
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                              ------
                                                                                              > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > a.. Visit your group "vintageHO" on the web.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                              > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                              Service.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                              ------
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1363 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/8/2006
                                                                                              Subject: Re: Looking for info on Thomas Industries
                                                                                              Would be interested in seeing some pictures of the various cars. Correct me
                                                                                              if I'm wrong, but weren't all except the two wine cars single dome?

                                                                                              Don
                                                                                              don.dellmann@...
                                                                                              http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                              moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO

                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                              From: Garry Spear <garrettspear@...>
                                                                                              To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                              Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 9:11 PM
                                                                                              Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Looking for info on Thomas Industries


                                                                                              Please see my previous message listing 10 different roadnames and one
                                                                                              different color variation. Total = 11 cars. I own examples of all 11 cars.

                                                                                              Garry Spear

                                                                                              On 4/7/06, Glenn <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > I have quite a bit of Thomas. Mr Thomas was a partner witht hte Tylers in
                                                                                              > Mantua Metal Products--sometime after WWII he went his own way. I think
                                                                                              > that the only HO car he made was the 6-dome ROMA WINE car. In O I have
                                                                                              the
                                                                                              > 1, 2, 3, and 6-dome cars, the bobber caboose, and theskeleton log car.
                                                                                              > Motive power followed the designs of the Mantua locos--mixed stamped brass
                                                                                              > and die cast parts. They made a 17/64" O Scale B&O 0-4-0, a 1/4" O Scale
                                                                                              > freelance 2-8-0, and an O Tinplate 4-4-0 plus some deck-roofed open
                                                                                              platform
                                                                                              > passenger cars to go with it. I lack examples of the latter. gj
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                              > *From:* Roger Aultman <raul@...>
                                                                                              > *To:* vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              > *Sent:* Friday, April 07, 2006 10:18 AM
                                                                                              > *Subject:* Re: [vintageHO] Looking for info on Thomas Industries
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Thomas Industries made H-0 and 0 scale along with some 0 tinplate,
                                                                                              > they show up on eBay from time to time. Roger Aultman
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Paul wrote:
                                                                                              > > I have been concentrating on collecting Varney rolling stock; mostly
                                                                                              > > reefers. Going thru my father's box of vintage trains, I found a
                                                                                              > > gorgeous Thomas Indutries Tank car. I saw a similar tank car on ebay,
                                                                                              > > but it went for more than thought it would.
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > > The Greenberg's Guide to Varney has been a huge help in determining
                                                                                              > > which cars I go after and how much to pay. Is there a similar book for
                                                                                              > > Thomas? Is there a website with info - ie production dates, etc.
                                                                                              > > (google doesn't turn up anything relevant)? Any help would be
                                                                                              > > appreciated. TIA -
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > > Paul
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > --
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm<http://www.nconnect.net/%7Eraul/AA1.ht
                                                                                              m>
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > SPONSORED LINKS
                                                                                              > Ho
                                                                                              scale<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ho+scale&w1=Ho+scale&w2=G+scale+mo
                                                                                              del+train&w3=G+scale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&c=5&s=
                                                                                              105&.sig=8KOGo_UHbh1z3_tfejZc3g> G
                                                                                              > scale model
                                                                                              train<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=G+scale+model+train&w1=Ho+scale&w2
                                                                                              =G+scale+model+train&w3=G+scale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+tr
                                                                                              ains&c=5&s=105&.sig=DYMOtZbTn2X5dWehROXrYA> G
                                                                                              > scale
                                                                                              train<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=G+scale+train&w1=Ho+scale&w2=G+sca
                                                                                              le+model+train&w3=G+scale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&c
                                                                                              =5&s=105&.sig=jwWwyG6k7w-XKTP_W-OISw> Ho
                                                                                              > scale model
                                                                                              train<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ho+scale+model+train&w1=Ho+scale&w
                                                                                              2=G+scale+model+train&w3=G+scale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+t
                                                                                              rains&c=5&s=105&.sig=Efz14TYTnr3ek3U3Ki12dw> Ho
                                                                                              > scale
                                                                                              trains<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ho+scale+trains&w1=Ho+scale&w2=G+
                                                                                              scale+model+train&w3=G+scale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+train
                                                                                              s&c=5&s=105&.sig=fcEGSsw1wP9YV9MbEbe8sA>
                                                                                              > ------------------------------
                                                                                              > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > - Visit your group
                                                                                              "vintageHO<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO>"
                                                                                              > on the web.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
                                                                                              subject=Unsubscribe>
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                              Service<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
                                                                                              > .
                                                                                              > ------------------------------
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1364 From: Jim Snyder Date: 4/8/2006
                                                                                              Subject: More Old Cars: "Old HO, Vol. II"
                                                                                              Here are some more photos of that collection of Old HO that was given to me. There are still
                                                                                              more to come... Check out the Virginian hopper.
                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1365 From: takefive247 Date: 4/8/2006
                                                                                              Subject: Re: PING Jack
                                                                                              Don, What are you using to get those great closeups?
                                                                                              Bill

                                                                                              --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > In the photos section, near the end, an album "zDon Dellmann's Stuff -
                                                                                              > Ulrich"
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Don
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > don.dellmann@...
                                                                                              > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                              > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              > co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                              > From: Jack Priller <westpac67@...>
                                                                                              > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                              > Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 2:53 PM
                                                                                              > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: PING Jack
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > > So where did you hide the picture; un-stored attachments are hard to
                                                                                              > > view. :>))
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > > Jack
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@>
                                                                                              > > wrote:
                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                              > > > Bet you wondered when I'd finish this one. Actually it was today
                                                                                              > > when I
                                                                                              > > > finally got to Walthers to pick up a pack of Kadee No.4's, since my
                                                                                              > > LHS
                                                                                              > > > didn't have any.
                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                              > > > For others, this is an Ulrich model.
                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                              > > > Don
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > > SPONSORED LINKS Ho scale G scale model train G scale train
                                                                                              > > Ho scale model train Ho scale trains
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                              > ------
                                                                                              > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > > a.. Visit your group "vintageHO" on the web.
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                              > > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                              > Service.
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                              > ------
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1366 From: Paul Date: 4/8/2006
                                                                                              Subject: Re: Looking for info on Thomas Industries
                                                                                              Thanks to all that replied with info, I really appreciate the help.
                                                                                              I have seen one or two of these on ebay but neither had the original
                                                                                              boxes, so I passed. I'll have to see which one my father has, it's
                                                                                              in mint condition but no original box, that's all I remember about
                                                                                              it. I found it in a Varney Pacific Fruit Express box.



                                                                                              --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Garry Spear" <garrettspear@...>
                                                                                              wrote:
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Please see my previous message listing 10 different roadnames and
                                                                                              one
                                                                                              > different color variation. Total = 11 cars. I own examples of
                                                                                              all 11 cars.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Garry Spear
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > On 4/7/06, Glenn <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > > I have quite a bit of Thomas. Mr Thomas was a partner witht hte
                                                                                              Tylers in
                                                                                              > > Mantua Metal Products--sometime after WWII he went his own way.
                                                                                              I think
                                                                                              > > that the only HO car he made was the 6-dome ROMA WINE car. In O
                                                                                              I have the
                                                                                              > > 1, 2, 3, and 6-dome cars, the bobber caboose, and theskeleton
                                                                                              log car.
                                                                                              > > Motive power followed the designs of the Mantua locos--mixed
                                                                                              stamped brass
                                                                                              > > and die cast parts. They made a 17/64" O Scale B&O 0-4-0, a 1/4"
                                                                                              O Scale
                                                                                              > > freelance 2-8-0, and an O Tinplate 4-4-0 plus some deck-roofed
                                                                                              open platform
                                                                                              > > passenger cars to go with it. I lack examples of the latter. gj
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                              > > *From:* Roger Aultman <raul@...>
                                                                                              > > *To:* vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              > > *Sent:* Friday, April 07, 2006 10:18 AM
                                                                                              > > *Subject:* Re: [vintageHO] Looking for info on Thomas Industries
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > > Thomas Industries made H-0 and 0 scale along with some 0
                                                                                              tinplate,
                                                                                              > > they show up on eBay from time to time. Roger Aultman
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > > Paul wrote:
                                                                                              > > > I have been concentrating on collecting Varney rolling stock;
                                                                                              mostly
                                                                                              > > > reefers. Going thru my father's box of vintage trains, I found
                                                                                              a
                                                                                              > > > gorgeous Thomas Indutries Tank car. I saw a similar tank car
                                                                                              on ebay,
                                                                                              > > > but it went for more than thought it would.
                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                              > > > The Greenberg's Guide to Varney has been a huge help in
                                                                                              determining
                                                                                              > > > which cars I go after and how much to pay. Is there a similar
                                                                                              book for
                                                                                              > > > Thomas? Is there a website with info - ie production dates,
                                                                                              etc.
                                                                                              > > > (google doesn't turn up anything relevant)? Any help would be
                                                                                              > > > appreciated. TIA -
                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                              > > > Paul
                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                              > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > > --
                                                                                              > > http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm<http://www.nconnect.net/%
                                                                                              7Eraul/AA1.htm>
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > > Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                                              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > > SPONSORED LINKS
                                                                                              > > Ho scale<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
                                                                                              t=ms&k=Ho+scale&w1=Ho+scale&w2=G+scale+model+train&w3=G+scale+train&w
                                                                                              4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&c=5&s=105&.sig=8KOGo_UHbh1z
                                                                                              3_tfejZc3g> G
                                                                                              > > scale model train<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
                                                                                              t=ms&k=G+scale+model+train&w1=Ho+scale&w2=G+scale+model+train&w3=G+sc
                                                                                              ale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&c=5&s=105&.sig=D
                                                                                              YMOtZbTn2X5dWehROXrYA> G
                                                                                              > > scale train<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
                                                                                              t=ms&k=G+scale+train&w1=Ho+scale&w2=G+scale+model+train&w3=G+scale+tr
                                                                                              ain&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&c=5&s=105&.sig=jwWwyG6
                                                                                              k7w-XKTP_W-OISw> Ho
                                                                                              > > scale model train<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
                                                                                              t=ms&k=Ho+scale+model+train&w1=Ho+scale&w2=G+scale+model+train&w3=G+s
                                                                                              cale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&c=5&s=105&.sig=
                                                                                              Efz14TYTnr3ek3U3Ki12dw> Ho
                                                                                              > > scale trains<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
                                                                                              t=ms&k=Ho+scale+trains&w1=Ho+scale&w2=G+scale+model+train&w3=G+scale+
                                                                                              train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&c=5&s=105&.sig=fcEGS
                                                                                              sw1wP9YV9MbEbe8sA>
                                                                                              > > ------------------------------
                                                                                              > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > > - Visit your
                                                                                              group "vintageHO<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO>"
                                                                                              > > on the web.
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
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                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1367 From: Jim Snyder Date: 4/8/2006
                                                                                              Subject: Re: More Old Cars: "Old HO, Vol. II"
                                                                                              --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Snyder" <joegideon@...> wrote:
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Here are some more photos of that collection of Old HO that was given to me. There are
                                                                                              still
                                                                                              > more to come... Check out the Virginian hopper.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              ...and the Milk Car!
                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1368 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/8/2006
                                                                                              Subject: Re: More Old Cars: "Old HO, Vol. II"
                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                              From: Jim Snyder <joegideon@...>
                                                                                              To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                              Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2006 6:29 AM
                                                                                              Subject: [vintageHO] More Old Cars: "Old HO, Vol. II"


                                                                                              > Here are some more photos of that collection of Old HO that was given to
                                                                                              me. There are still
                                                                                              > more to come... Check out the Virginian hopper.

                                                                                              I'd wager that's an old Varney. LOTS of nice pieces there.

                                                                                              Don

                                                                                              don.dellmann@...
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                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1369 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/8/2006
                                                                                              Subject: Re: PING Jack
                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                              From: takefive247 <takefive@...>
                                                                                              To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                              Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2006 8:26 AM
                                                                                              Subject: [vintageHO] Re: PING Jack


                                                                                              > Don, What are you using to get those great closeups?
                                                                                              > Bill
                                                                                              >

                                                                                              A cheap (around $200) Sony digital, ("Cybershot" model DSC S-40). I set it
                                                                                              on a tripod about 5' away and zoom in. No flash, just the overhead
                                                                                              flourescents, shooting at 1M resolution. I do run the pics through Adobe
                                                                                              "photo deluxe" (Sort of an "Adobe lite", came with my first scanner) to crop
                                                                                              the pics and size them to be 800 pixels in their largest dimension, then one
                                                                                              level of "sharpen picture".

                                                                                              Don

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                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1370 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/8/2006
                                                                                              Subject: Re: More Old Cars: "Old HO, Vol. II"
                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                              From: Jim Snyder <joegideon@...>
                                                                                              To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                              Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2006 6:29 AM
                                                                                              Subject: [vintageHO] More Old Cars: "Old HO, Vol. II"


                                                                                              > Here are some more photos of that collection of Old HO that was given to
                                                                                              me. There are still
                                                                                              > more to come... Check out the Virginian hopper.
                                                                                              >

                                                                                              The NYC Gondola is a "Silver Streak" "Hart" gondola.

                                                                                              I don't think the UP flat is an Ulrich, every Ulrich flatcar I've seen had
                                                                                              straight sidesills like your SP flat car. If it's a solid one piece metal
                                                                                              casting, I'd lay money on a 1940's Mantua, if it's cardstock and wood it
                                                                                              could be a Varney (Varney No. F-4, road name L&N in my 1948 catalog is a 50'
                                                                                              pictured with the six tractors!).

                                                                                              The PRR N-6 caboose could be Mainline kit. They had one like that, but I've
                                                                                              never seen one outside a catalog so I couldn't be sure.

                                                                                              Don

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                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1371 From: Garry Spear Date: 4/8/2006
                                                                                              Subject: Re: Looking for info on Thomas Industries
                                                                                              Yes, the two wine cars are 6 dome; all the rest are single dome. But
                                                                                              Ah Ha, not all single dome cars have the same dome. There are two
                                                                                              different domes. A std big dome like Globe and Athearn Tank cars or a
                                                                                              small dome for chemical cars, like the Columbia Southern. The cars
                                                                                              share a common frame and are all the same length.

                                                                                              Garry Spear

                                                                                              On 4/8/06, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                                                                              > Would be interested in seeing some pictures of the various cars. Correct me
                                                                                              > if I'm wrong, but weren't all except the two wine cars single dome?
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Don
                                                                                              > don.dellmann@...
                                                                                              > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                              > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
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                                                                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1372 From: Imp Ster Date: 4/9/2006
                                                                                              Subject: SundaySermon: fun things to do w/ EZ-Mate couplers
                                                                                              prelude to a farce:
                                                                                              "SINCE DECEMBER 1998, ATHEARN KITS COME WITH BACHMANN EZ-MATE*
                                                                                              COUPLERS, AVAILABLE FROM ANY HOBBY SHOP."
                                                                                              (*trademark, for some odd reason.)

                                                                                              well, here we are with a growing pile of the cute widdle EZ-Mates.
                                                                                              the pile grew substantialy after a recent kit-hopper binge.
                                                                                              these hoppers will be working hard in the coffee mines, so naturally
                                                                                              they all get full-metal KD #5 or equiv.
                                                                                              which brings me to the rant of the week.

                                                                                              i swear, i think i'd rather put old X2Fs on my new stock instead of
                                                                                              these lame "fake KD" couplers.
                                                                                              at least the typical X2F casting has some beef to it.
                                                                                              i dont have to worry about the horn-hook breaking off if i lift the
                                                                                              car by its coupler (which emergency recovery technique happens often
                                                                                              enough... heheh)..and the occasional weak hook-whisker-spring
                                                                                              is ..easily dealt with by replacement with a different manufacturer's
                                                                                              X2F or even a KD.

                                                                                              but here it is after 3 AM and i am out of KDs and the hobby shop is
                                                                                              closed.
                                                                                              guess i will have to save these last 2 hoppers til later.
                                                                                              so i will reach into my vast Davy Jones Locker and pull forth 2 pair
                                                                                              of vintage Athearn X2Fs, just so i can get these 2 hoppers on a
                                                                                              storage track in rolling order.

                                                                                              as for the EZ-Mates*, what should i do?

                                                                                              ahh, i know.

                                                                                              behold, the fabled Union Pacific scrap-collection gondola train.
                                                                                              it's been running a bit light lately, only a few bits of broken
                                                                                              crossties, rail cuttings and the odd ruined joiner.
                                                                                              so, here's my nomination of what used to pass for a Dollar Model at
                                                                                              MR:
                                                                                              lightly sauteed over a bed of cinders, medium braised with red primer
                                                                                              enamel spray (from a Dollar Store, hence the gag, k.), arranged
                                                                                              artfully in a tossing of old wheels, shattered coupler pockets,
                                                                                              broken frame bits etc, is our well-aged collection of EZ-Mates*.
                                                                                              my, how they add to the atmosphere of Wuthless Junque** so
                                                                                              desirable*** on the Flying Goat Lines.

                                                                                              ** "to put it mildly"

                                                                                              *** "heavy sarcasm"

                                                                                              well, i'd rant more, but i gotta get some sleep.
                                                                                              sorry no HO train operations webcasting lately folks, been busy
                                                                                              playing with the real thing.... will try again next week, with the
                                                                                              new hoppers if possible.
                                                                                              that is, if the 1:1 scale CSX roadbed sinkholes developing just north
                                                                                              of the station dont send a train into my domain first.

                                                                                              (speaking of unmitigated disasters in the making, i found a great
                                                                                              website that helps me realise i am not alone in my
                                                                                              misunderestimations of CSX tragicomedy:
                                                                                              http://csx-sucks.com/
                                                                                              ..enjoy!)

                                                                                              ...
                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1374 From: Douglas Krahn Date: 4/9/2006
                                                                                              Subject: Re: SundaySermon: fun things to do w/ EZ-Mate couplers
                                                                                              I enjoyed your referenced link.

                                                                                              Doug

                                                                                              --- Imp Ster <iimpster@...> wrote:

                                                                                              [...]
                                                                                              > (speaking of unmitigated disasters in the making, i
                                                                                              > found a great
                                                                                              > website that helps me realise i am not alone in my
                                                                                              > misunderestimations of CSX tragicomedy:
                                                                                              > http://csx-sucks.com/
                                                                                              > ..enjoy!)
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1375 From: Jack Priller Date: 4/9/2006
                                                                                              Subject: Re: SundaySermon: fun things to do w/ EZ-Mate couplers
                                                                                              And speaking of that site's lead photo, my version in 3D was just
                                                                                              added to photo album "Jack's Junque". Built it about three years ago.

                                                                                              Jack

                                                                                              --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Imp Ster" <iimpster@...> wrote:
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > (speaking of unmitigated disasters in the making, i found a great
                                                                                              > website that helps me realise i am not alone in my
                                                                                              > misunderestimations of CSX tragicomedy:
                                                                                              > http://csx-sucks.com/
                                                                                              > ..enjoy!)
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > ...
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1376 From: Jim Snyder Date: 4/9/2006
                                                                                              Subject: Re: More Old Cars: "Old HO, Vol. II"
                                                                                              The Flat is die-cast. It looked too good for the era. I was trying to place the
                                                                                              tractors...There are several Ulrich cars- a couple dropbottom gons(I saw one exactly ike it
                                                                                              in Bob Smaus' yard in an early-2005 article... I also found three silk-screened-side reefers
                                                                                              (Burlington Route/CB&Q and Burlington Route/C&S. They work just fine with the "more-
                                                                                              modern" reefers I have.

                                                                                              Anyone see the Varney Super Pacific a few days ago? I tried! I bid $248.00, but... Snipe
                                                                                              City! I got called away or I would have gotten it.





                                                                                              --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                              > From: Jim Snyder <joegideon@...>
                                                                                              > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                              > Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2006 6:29 AM
                                                                                              > Subject: [vintageHO] More Old Cars: "Old HO, Vol. II"
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > > Here are some more photos of that collection of Old HO that was given to
                                                                                              > me. There are still
                                                                                              > > more to come... Check out the Virginian hopper.
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > The NYC Gondola is a "Silver Streak" "Hart" gondola.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > I don't think the UP flat is an Ulrich, every Ulrich flatcar I've seen had
                                                                                              > straight sidesills like your SP flat car. If it's a solid one piece metal
                                                                                              > casting, I'd lay money on a 1940's Mantua, if it's cardstock and wood it
                                                                                              > could be a Varney (Varney No. F-4, road name L&N in my 1948 catalog is a 50'
                                                                                              > pictured with the six tractors!).
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > The PRR N-6 caboose could be Mainline kit. They had one like that, but I've
                                                                                              > never seen one outside a catalog so I couldn't be sure.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Don
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > don.dellmann@...
                                                                                              > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                              > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              > co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1377 From: Jim Snyder Date: 4/9/2006
                                                                                              Subject: Qustion, Re.: Varney 2-8-4
                                                                                              I ran into a Varney 2-8-4- looks to be a C&NW; It simply looked too GOOD. Was this a Cary
                                                                                              conversion? Compared to the Varney Northern, it was spectacular, with its Worthington BL
                                                                                              hung on the side. It had sprung drivers, etc. The running gear was positively Varney- the
                                                                                              V.G. and rod ass'y was very similar to those on the S.P. 2-8-0.

                                                                                              Thanks!

                                                                                              Jim Snyder
                                                                                              Monterey
                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1378 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/9/2006
                                                                                              Subject: Re: SundaySermon: fun things to do w/ EZ-Mate couplers
                                                                                              Attachments :
                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                From: Imp Ster <iimpster@...>
                                                                                                To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 2:28 AM
                                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] SundaySermon: fun things to do w/ EZ-Mate couplers


                                                                                                > prelude to a farce:
                                                                                                > "SINCE DECEMBER 1998, ATHEARN KITS COME WITH BACHMANN EZ-MATE*
                                                                                                > COUPLERS, AVAILABLE FROM ANY HOBBY SHOP."
                                                                                                > (*trademark, for some odd reason.)
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > well, here we are with a growing pile of the cute widdle EZ-Mates.
                                                                                                > the pile grew substantialy after a recent kit-hopper binge.
                                                                                                > these hoppers will be working hard in the coffee mines, so naturally
                                                                                                > they all get full-metal KD #5 or equiv.
                                                                                                > which brings me to the rant of the week.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > i swear, i think i'd rather put old X2Fs on my new stock instead of
                                                                                                > these lame "fake KD" couplers.
                                                                                                > at least the typical X2F casting has some beef to it.
                                                                                                > i dont have to worry about the horn-hook breaking off if i lift the
                                                                                                > car by its coupler (which emergency recovery technique happens often
                                                                                                > enough... heheh)..and the occasional weak hook-whisker-spring
                                                                                                > is ..easily dealt with by replacement with a different manufacturer's
                                                                                                > X2F or even a KD.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > but here it is after 3 AM and i am out of KDs and the hobby shop is
                                                                                                > closed.
                                                                                                > guess i will have to save these last 2 hoppers til later.
                                                                                                > so i will reach into my vast Davy Jones Locker and pull forth 2 pair
                                                                                                > of vintage Athearn X2Fs, just so i can get these 2 hoppers on a
                                                                                                > storage track in rolling order.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > as for the EZ-Mates*, what should i do?
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > ahh, i know.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > behold, the fabled Union Pacific scrap-collection gondola train.
                                                                                                > it's been running a bit light lately, only a few bits of broken
                                                                                                > crossties, rail cuttings and the odd ruined joiner.
                                                                                                > so, here's my nomination of what used to pass for a Dollar Model at
                                                                                                > MR:
                                                                                                > lightly sauteed over a bed of cinders, medium braised with red primer
                                                                                                > enamel spray (from a Dollar Store, hence the gag, k.), arranged
                                                                                                > artfully in a tossing of old wheels, shattered coupler pockets,
                                                                                                > broken frame bits etc, is our well-aged collection of EZ-Mates*.
                                                                                                > my, how they add to the atmosphere of Wuthless Junque** so
                                                                                                > desirable*** on the Flying Goat Lines.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > ** "to put it mildly"
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > *** "heavy sarcasm"
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > well, i'd rant more, but i gotta get some sleep.
                                                                                                > sorry no HO train operations webcasting lately folks, been busy
                                                                                                > playing with the real thing.... will try again next week, with the
                                                                                                > new hoppers if possible.
                                                                                                > that is, if the 1:1 scale CSX roadbed sinkholes developing just north
                                                                                                > of the station dont send a train into my domain first.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > (speaking of unmitigated disasters in the making, i found a great
                                                                                                > website that helps me realise i am not alone in my
                                                                                                > misunderestimations of CSX tragicomedy:
                                                                                                > http://csx-sucks.com/
                                                                                                > ..enjoy!)

                                                                                                Well, I could put horney hooks on my cars, but this is what happened to all
                                                                                                of mine.....(attached photo) :-(

                                                                                                Don

                                                                                                don.dellmann@...
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                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1379 From: Glenn Date: 4/9/2006
                                                                                                Subject: Re: Looking for info on Thomas Industries
                                                                                                I'm not sure about the HO cars, but in O Thomas had 1, 2, 3, and 6 dome cars.
                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2006 8:11 PM
                                                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Looking for info on Thomas Industries

                                                                                                Yes, the two wine cars are 6 dome; all the rest are single dome.  But
                                                                                                Ah Ha, not all single dome cars have the same dome.  There are two
                                                                                                different domes.  A std big dome like Globe and Athearn Tank cars or a
                                                                                                small dome for chemical cars, like the Columbia Southern.  The cars
                                                                                                share a common frame and are all the same length.

                                                                                                Garry Spear

                                                                                                On 4/8/06, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                                                                                > Would be interested in seeing some pictures of the various cars.  Correct me
                                                                                                > if I'm wrong, but weren't all except the two wine cars single dome?
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Don
                                                                                                > don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                > co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1380 From: Jim Snyder Date: 4/9/2006
                                                                                                Subject: ...and a few more...
                                                                                                In "Old HO, Vol. II", I added some shots of three reefers being pulled by my brass M-K-T J5
                                                                                                2-6-0 (I looked for this loco for YEARS !! And, while not EXACTLY vintage... well, maybe- it's
                                                                                                19 yrs. old... it's a gorgeous little locomotive. These cars are of a later vintage. They have
                                                                                                Kadees and smaller flanges.

                                                                                                Jim Snyder
                                                                                                Monterey
                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1381 From: Glenn Date: 4/9/2006
                                                                                                Subject: Re: Qustion, Re.: Varney 2-8-4
                                                                                                Varney did have a Berk--was one of the later locos--I think that it uses a lot of the parts form the RDG 2-8-0. 
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                Dunno if I asked before--you must be fairly new to the Monterey area--I don't recall you at least as one of the regulars before I left--Dec. 2001.   gj
                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                From: Jim Snyder
                                                                                                Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 5:22 PM
                                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] Qustion, Re.: Varney 2-8-4

                                                                                                I ran into a Varney 2-8-4- looks to be a C&NW;  It simply looked too GOOD.  Was this a Cary
                                                                                                conversion?  Compared to the Varney Northern, it was spectacular, with its Worthington BL
                                                                                                hung on the side.  It had sprung drivers, etc.  The running gear was positively Varney- the
                                                                                                V.G. and rod ass'y was very similar to those on the S.P. 2-8-0.

                                                                                                Thanks!

                                                                                                Jim Snyder
                                                                                                Monterey



                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1382 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/10/2006
                                                                                                Subject: Re: ...and a few more...
                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                From: Jim Snyder <joegideon@...>
                                                                                                To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 10:00 PM
                                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] ...and a few more...


                                                                                                > In "Old HO, Vol. II", I added some shots of three reefers being pulled by
                                                                                                my brass M-K-T J5
                                                                                                > 2-6-0 (I looked for this loco for YEARS !! And, while not EXACTLY
                                                                                                vintage... well, maybe- it's
                                                                                                > 19 yrs. old... it's a gorgeous little locomotive. These cars are of a
                                                                                                later vintage. They have
                                                                                                > Kadees and smaller flanges.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Jim Snyder
                                                                                                > Monterey

                                                                                                NICE.

                                                                                                The reefers look like Silver Streaks, the two yellow cars kit no. 414, the
                                                                                                orange truss rod car no. 703, could be from anywhere between the mid 1950's
                                                                                                and mid 1970's. Originally Tru-Scale, then Pacific HO, Then Walthers. Ca.
                                                                                                1975 or so Walthers changed to plastic ends, then sold the line in the late
                                                                                                1980's, most recently available from Ye Olde Huff 'n' Puff.

                                                                                                Don

                                                                                                don.dellmann@...
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                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1383 From: Larry Date: 4/10/2006
                                                                                                Subject: Re: Qustion, Re.: Varney 2-8-4
                                                                                                Try these two links
                                                                                                Go to Varney - Steam Diagrams - 2-8-4 Berkshire 2325 1951 Page 1
                                                                                                http://www.hoseeker.net/otherhotrains.html

                                                                                                Go to 1950 Brochure Page 3
                                                                                                http://hoseeker.net/varneymiscellaneous.html

                                                                                                This may help you with a little info about the Varney Berkshire.

                                                                                                Larry
                                                                                                http://www.hoseeker.net/


                                                                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Varney did have a Berk--was one of the later locos--I think that it
                                                                                                uses a lot of the parts form the RDG 2-8-0.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Dunno if I asked before--you must be fairly new to the Monterey
                                                                                                area--I don't recall you at least as one of the regulars before I
                                                                                                left--Dec. 2001. gj
                                                                                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                > From: Jim Snyder
                                                                                                > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                > Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 5:22 PM
                                                                                                > Subject: [vintageHO] Qustion, Re.: Varney 2-8-4
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > I ran into a Varney 2-8-4- looks to be a C&NW; It simply looked
                                                                                                too GOOD. Was this a Cary
                                                                                                > conversion? Compared to the Varney Northern, it was spectacular,
                                                                                                with its Worthington BL
                                                                                                > hung on the side. It had sprung drivers, etc. The running gear
                                                                                                was positively Varney- the
                                                                                                > V.G. and rod ass'y was very similar to those on the S.P. 2-8-0.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Thanks!
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Jim Snyder
                                                                                                > Monterey
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                ----------
                                                                                                > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > a.. Visit your group "vintageHO" on the web.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                >
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                                                                                                of Service.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > --------------------------------------------------------------------
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                                                                                                >
                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1384 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 4/10/2006
                                                                                                Subject: Re: Qustion, Re.: Varney 2-8-4
                                                                                                I have a mint unassembled Varney Berkshire 2714K which is a later production with a vastly improved diecast boiler than the earlier "cast-in-plaster brass" versions.
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                I should probably take a bunch of photos and put them on the site.
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                I'll just type most of what is in the excellent Greenberg's guide to Varney Trains on the berkshires and it might help anybody identify these things (This is a good book to get if you are a Varney fan at all)...
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                ************************
                                                                                                2400K 1-8-4 BERKSHIRE KIT, LESS TENDER (1950-52)
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                Varney's Berkshire came with two different boiler castings.  The first version was without over-fire jets on the firebox sides, while the later revised boiler showed five such jets on each side.  This cast-in-plaster brass unit (2109A) was also used on the Super Mikado, Economy Hudson, and Super Pacific.
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                Unsprung frame number 1996A was assembled from brass plates for the Berkshire, with spacers riveted in place to maintain the correct alignment between the sides.  It was the same length as the 2-8-2 Mikado frame.  The motor was the familiar Pittman DC-71, connected to scale 63-inch spoked drivers.
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                The two-wheel 1997K pilot truck and Laird valve gear from the Economy Mikado kit and the unsprung 1792S trailing truck were used in this kit, along with a number 1996 radiator mounted on the pilot.  Its components were marketed in a steel case.
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                2325K BERKSHIRE KIT, LESS TENDER (1953-54)
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                This kit used the 1994 one-piece channel brass frame (same frame as the Economy Mikado used), which did not use spacer rivets to hold it together.  It came in the kit as 1996A, an assembly consisting of the frame, spur gear (on axle) motor bracket, and motor with worm gear.
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                2714K BERKSHIRE KIT, LESS TENDER (1957-60)
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                This locomotive's redesigned cast-lead/tin boiler rode on an unsprung brass frame and had five over-fire jets on each side of the firebox.  These castings and the related fittings were made by the Wm. H. Vollheim Company of Brooklyn, New York.
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                The drivers were scale 63-inch Box Pok, pressed onto the axles and connected by stamped, single-piece drive rods.  Most details were cast into the boiler, including a Worthington feedwater heater just in front of the stack, covers over the sander valves, four hatches atop the sand dome, air tanks, and power reverse.
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                Pilot and trailing trucks were the Economy series (1765K and 1792S), and the motor worm drove a spur gear mounted on the third axle.  This locomotive was fitted with an additional boiler weight, and came packed in a cardboard box measuring 9 3/4 by 6 1/2 by 4 1/4 inches.
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                2950K BERKSHIRE KIT, WITH TENDER (1961-65)
                                                                                                200K BERKSHIRE KIT, WITH TENDER (1966-68
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                This kit was identical to number 2714K described above, with the addition of the plastic-shelled Long Distance tender (number 2704K).  Varney assigned stock number 200K to this locomotive and from 1966 through 1968 it was offered fully factory assembled with a working headlight.  This 200K Berkshire kit came in a two-piece cardboard box measuring 10 1/8 x 6 5/8 x 2 inches.  It also appeared as the motive power in one 1966 train set.
                                                                                                ************************
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                Chuck Kinzer
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                From: Larry
                                                                                                Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 8:17 PM
                                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Qustion, Re.: Varney 2-8-4

                                                                                                Try these two links
                                                                                                Go to  Varney - Steam Diagrams - 2-8-4 Berkshire 2325 1951 Page 1
                                                                                                http://www.hoseeker.net/otherhotrains.html

                                                                                                Go to 1950 Brochure Page 3
                                                                                                http://hoseeker.net/varneymiscellaneous.html

                                                                                                This may help you with a little info about the Varney Berkshire.

                                                                                                Larry
                                                                                                http://www.hoseeker.net/


                                                                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Varney did have a Berk--was one of the later locos--I think that it
                                                                                                uses a lot of the parts form the RDG 2-8-0. 
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Dunno if I asked before--you must be fairly new to the Monterey
                                                                                                area--I don't recall you at least as one of the regulars before I
                                                                                                left--Dec. 2001.   gj
                                                                                                >   ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                >   From: Jim Snyder
                                                                                                >   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                >   Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 5:22 PM
                                                                                                >   Subject: [vintageHO] Qustion, Re.: Varney 2-8-4
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >   I ran into a Varney 2-8-4- looks to be a C&NW;  It simply looked
                                                                                                too GOOD.  Was this a Cary
                                                                                                >   conversion?  Compared to the Varney Northern, it was spectacular,
                                                                                                with its Worthington BL
                                                                                                >   hung on the side.  It had sprung drivers, etc.  The running gear
                                                                                                was positively Varney- the
                                                                                                >   V.G. and rod ass'y was very similar to those on the S.P. 2-8-0.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >   Thanks!
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >   Jim Snyder
                                                                                                >   Monterey
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
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                                                                                                >
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                                                                                                >      
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                                                                                                >      
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                                                                                                >





                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1385 From: shargue Date: 4/11/2006
                                                                                                Subject: Red Ball NYC 4-Wheel Coal Hopper
                                                                                                Does anyone have historical information about the 4-wheel NYC coal
                                                                                                hoppers that Red Ball produced? I recently acquired a set of three of
                                                                                                these and would like to detail them authentically. I haven't been able
                                                                                                to find out what type of service the original cars saw nor any photos
                                                                                                of the prototypes.

                                                                                                Thanks, Steve
                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1386 From: erieberk Date: 4/11/2006
                                                                                                Subject: Re: Red Ball NYC 4-Wheel Coal Hopper
                                                                                                Steve, These cars apparently were first to appear in Red Ball's
                                                                                                catalog #11 (as their Catalog Stock No. 41); their catalog #10 does not
                                                                                                include it. These catalogs are not dated, but the additional product
                                                                                                inserts that came with them were. The insert included with the Red
                                                                                                Ball catalog #11 is dated Fall 1962, also the drawing (by Casey
                                                                                                Holtzinger)of the car found on page 9 in the catalog is dated 9/62.
                                                                                                \
                                                                                                Red Ball's description of the kit is as follows: "These small
                                                                                                coal 'jimmies' date back to about 1870. They are patterned after cars
                                                                                                used on the New York Central, but other railroads used similar cars.
                                                                                                They held about 12 tons of coal. A string of these cars will be just
                                                                                                the thing for your old time short line. Easy to build."
                                                                                                \
                                                                                                These cars were used to haul coal from the coal mines to the coal
                                                                                                tipple (transfer tipple), where it was then sorted for size into
                                                                                                different loading bins to be dumped (as one size) into larger waiting
                                                                                                hopper cars for transit to market. They were primarily used by coal
                                                                                                mining short lines, although larger railroads (and their subsidiaries)
                                                                                                in the coal regions also used them. The PRR had them as well as the
                                                                                                N&W and subsidiaries such as the Ashland Coal & Coke Co. (West
                                                                                                Virginia) and the Algoma Coal & Coke Co. (also of W. Virginia).
                                                                                                Private short lines included the Buckeye Coal & Coke, the Kentucky &
                                                                                                Tennessee Railroad and the Coal Belt Railroad.
                                                                                                \
                                                                                                As I seem to recall, Suydam offered one of their three triple kits as
                                                                                                Buckeye hopper bottom coal gondolas for that Period. I would have to
                                                                                                dig somewhere into my collection to find them to give any more info
                                                                                                about them. Ray
                                                                                                \
                                                                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "shargue" <shargue@...> wrote:
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Does anyone have historical information about the 4-wheel NYC coal
                                                                                                > hoppers that Red Ball produced? I recently acquired a set of three of
                                                                                                > these and would like to detail them authentically. I haven't been able
                                                                                                > to find out what type of service the original cars saw nor any photos
                                                                                                > of the prototypes.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Thanks, Steve
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1387 From: Rob Quagan Date: 4/11/2006
                                                                                                Subject: Central Valley Truck Wheelset Upgrade Process - 11 Apr 06
                                                                                                Hi folks,

                                                                                                Being fairly new to list, I was wondering if you could describe or
                                                                                                point to an earlier list discussion that describes re-equipping older
                                                                                                CV trucks with new wheel sets for some newly built Ambroid and
                                                                                                Labelle 60' passenger cars.

                                                                                                I suspect it will be the Reboxx variety. I have recently purchased a
                                                                                                number of CV T-25 and T-31 4 Wheel Passenger Trucks on Ebay and have
                                                                                                generally found wheel set Ni-cladding to have been damaged having
                                                                                                reacted with 30 plus year old foam packing material or having flange
                                                                                                depths that are much deeper than the current NMRA RP-25. Some wheels
                                                                                                have an acceptable "CV-3" standard; however, wheel conditions vary
                                                                                                due to the above deterioration, resulting in pitted (de-plated,
                                                                                                exposed brass) existing wheel treads.

                                                                                                Needless to say, I would like to re-build (re-wheel) these classic
                                                                                                trucks to get equivalent or better roll than the OEM spec. That
                                                                                                said...

                                                                                                I. What Reboxx (or other mfg.) replacement wheelset dimensions work
                                                                                                best for the old T-25 and T-31's (both early and late manufacture)?

                                                                                                I currently see two options to disassemble trucks:

                                                                                                I. Removing One OEM Truck Rivit and Replacing with Flathead Machine
                                                                                                Screw:

                                                                                                1. What tools are necessary to drill out one existing rivit?
                                                                                                2. Is a drill press necessary for precision and countersinking flat
                                                                                                head machine screw?
                                                                                                3. What are the preferred drill and tap sizes for this operation?
                                                                                                4. Are there any clamps or jigs that are helpful to hold side
                                                                                                frame/bolster assembly?
                                                                                                4. Is Locktite necessary to hold new screws?

                                                                                                II. Removing One OEM Truck Rivit and Replacing with new rivit.

                                                                                                1. Is it possible to replace removed OEM rivits as an alternative?
                                                                                                2. What are the OEM rivit dimensions?
                                                                                                3. What is a source and supply for replacement rivits?
                                                                                                4. What is the source and type of hand tool is used to compress new
                                                                                                rivits of this dimension?

                                                                                                I would like to re-rivit, if possible, but a source for replacement
                                                                                                rivits and handtool is critical.

                                                                                                Thanks for your help.

                                                                                                Best regards,

                                                                                                Rob Quagan
                                                                                                West Roxbury, MA
                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1388 From: Steve Argue Date: 4/11/2006
                                                                                                Subject: Red Ball NYC 4-Wheel Coal Hopper
                                                                                                Ray,

                                                                                                Thanks for the great information. The Red Ball kit leaves something to be desired as far as detailing the interior of the hopper. Did these hoppers have a slope sheet? Also I would think that there should be some type of mechanism to release the hopper gates. If you get time, perhaps you could look at the Suydam kit to see if they offer any more detail.

                                                                                                Steve


                                                                                                \
                                                                                                As I seem to recall, Suydam offered one of their three triple kits as
                                                                                                Buckeye hopper bottom coal gondolas for that Period. I would have to
                                                                                                dig somewhere into my collection to find them to give any more info
                                                                                                about them. Ray


                                                                                                ________________________________________________________________________
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                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1389 From: erieberk Date: 4/11/2006
                                                                                                Subject: Re: Red Ball NYC 4-Wheel Coal Hopper
                                                                                                Steve, You're right about that; there is not much as far as interior
                                                                                                detail on any of the Red Ball kits -- you would have to put in a
                                                                                                dummy coal load perhaps modified from Walthers. I don't happen to
                                                                                                have this car myself, mainly as I'm not into the older Period
                                                                                                modeling, so I can't say if there are slope sheets, although there is
                                                                                                no indication of bays hanging down below the body. The car size
                                                                                                (length) is 16 scale feet, so probably not. Its a steel outside
                                                                                                braced composite (w/wood) hopper with truss rods bracing the
                                                                                                journals. The main parts to the kit are: #513 - Cast Sides & Ends
                                                                                                (65c pr.), #T-77 - Chassis with Wheels (75c) and #106 Cast Hopper
                                                                                                Door (10c). The three car kit went for $4.95. Note -- the composite
                                                                                                sides (steel outside bracing and wood ribbed siding) as well as
                                                                                                the "wood" ends are all cast metal parts, similar to Ulrich's
                                                                                                composite gondolas. While it does include a hopper door, there is no
                                                                                                detail showing that on the finished model. A quick check of that
                                                                                                hopper door in the parts section shows it as a one-piece (non-
                                                                                                operating) casting of two lengthwise doors in a "V" trough which on
                                                                                                the prototype would close to form the "V", being hinged along each
                                                                                                side rail; this would preclude the use of slope sheets.
                                                                                                \
                                                                                                As time permits, I'll check into the Suydam kit as soon as I get a
                                                                                                chance. Not an easy chore to find them with a collection of between
                                                                                                4,000 and 5,000 kits on hand, so it could take a little time. I'll
                                                                                                first check my catalog collection to see what I can find. Ray
                                                                                                \
                                                                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Argue" <shargue@...> wrote:
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Ray,
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Thanks for the great information. The Red Ball kit leaves something
                                                                                                to be desired as far as detailing the interior of the hopper. Did
                                                                                                these hoppers have a slope sheet? Also I would think that there
                                                                                                should be some type of mechanism to release the hopper gates. If you
                                                                                                get time, perhaps you could look at the Suydam kit to see if they
                                                                                                offer any more detail.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Steve
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                \

                                                                                                > As I seem to recall, Suydam offered one of their three triple kits
                                                                                                as
                                                                                                > Buckeye hopper bottom coal gondolas for that Period. I would have
                                                                                                to
                                                                                                > dig somewhere into my collection to find them to give any more info
                                                                                                > about them. Ray
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                ______________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                __
                                                                                                > Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
                                                                                                > Unlimited Internet Access with 1GB of Email Storage.
                                                                                                > Visit http://www.juno.com/value to sign up today!
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1390 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 4/12/2006
                                                                                                Subject: Gorre & Daphetid pictures that have never been seen
                                                                                                I hope you all don't mind a little sales pitch.  Considering the subject matter, I think many of you, or all of you, would want to know.  And I suspect you will want to pass this on to your model railroading friends near and far.
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                John Allen is perhaps the best known model railroader ever.  And the Gorre & Daphetid is perhaps the best known model railroad ever.  Have you ever wanted to see more of it?
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                As many of you know, shortly after his passing in 1973 his house caught fire and the railroad and most related items were destroyed.  But recently, over two hundred of John Allen's photos surfaced that survived.  A great many of them have never been seen before!
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                The "Gorre & Daphetid Reminiscence Project" team (all volunteers) has been scanning these photos and other John Allen work such as his Varney and PFM advertising and much more.
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                A CD IS NOW BEING OFFERED AT A MODEST PRICE!  It is a superb effort with an enormous number of photos.  The photos are provided in the super high resolutions of the original scans.  The team has also been doing research to add comments and anecdotes where possible.
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                Also, this project has real costs, and the sales of the CDs helps with those costs.  The team members are volunteers and their only payment is the satisfaction of preserving incredibly valuable model railroading history and making it available to others.
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                I urge you to get yours ordered now.  After all.  Vintage HO doesn't get much better than this!
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                Here is the official announcement from the team.  You will get an idea of the devotion to quality you can expect when you follow the link...
                                                                                                ================

                                                                                                The Gorre and Daphetid Reminiscence Project Team

                                                                                                is pleased to announce that pre-orders are being taken for

                                                                                                Volume One of the GDRP CD set.

                                                                                                Order yours now at:

                                                                                                http://www.gdlines.com/CD_order.html

                                                                                                Further information is available from the volunteers at info@...

                                                                                                Thanks for your support of the project.

                                                                                                ================
                                                                                                 
                                                                                                Thank you kindly,
                                                                                                Chuck Kinzer
                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1391 From: frank Date: 4/12/2006
                                                                                                Subject: New Album "Toptrain Old Trains"
                                                                                                I deleated my old album and replaced it with these photos of 1950, and
                                                                                                1960 cars from my collection
                                                                                                farnk O toptrain
                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1392 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/12/2006
                                                                                                Subject: Re: New Album "Toptrain Old Trains"
                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                From: frank <toptrain1@...>
                                                                                                To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 3:35 PM
                                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] New Album "Toptrain Old Trains"


                                                                                                > I deleated my old album and replaced it with these photos of 1950, and
                                                                                                > 1960 cars from my collection
                                                                                                > farnk O toptrain

                                                                                                Some nice pieces there!

                                                                                                Don

                                                                                                don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
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                                                                                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1393 From: frank Date: 4/12/2006
                                                                                                Subject: Re: New Album "Toptrain Old Trains"
                                                                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
                                                                                                wrote:
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                > From: frank <toptrain1@...>
                                                                                                > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                > Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 3:35 PM
                                                                                                > Subject: [vintageHO] New Album "Toptrain Old Trains"
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > > I deleated my old album and replaced it with these photos of
                                                                                                1950, and
                                                                                                > > 1960 cars from my collection
                                                                                                > > farnk O toptrain
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Some nice pieces there!

                                                                                                > Don
                                                                                                These cars are run not sheveled
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                frank

                                                                                                > don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                > moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
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                                                                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1394 From: takefive247 Date: 4/12/2006
                                                                                                Subject: Kadee magnets
                                                                                                I've installed a Kadee # 308 uncoupler magnet in my main line and am
                                                                                                having some unwanted uncoupling. The 308 is the one that goes under
                                                                                                the track and works great except for the fact that it uncouples at
                                                                                                will. Any suggestions?
                                                                                                Bill
                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1395 From: Glenn Date: 4/12/2006
                                                                                                Subject: Re: Kadee magnets
                                                                                                big chunk of steel in the car?
                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 5:43 PM
                                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] Kadee magnets

                                                                                                I've installed a Kadee # 308 uncoupler magnet in my main line and am
                                                                                                having some unwanted uncoupling. The 308 is the one that goes under
                                                                                                the track and works great except for the fact that it uncouples at
                                                                                                will. Any suggestions?
                                                                                                Bill



                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1396 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/12/2006
                                                                                                Subject: Re: New Album "Toptrain Old Trains"
                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                From: frank <toptrain1@...>
                                                                                                To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 7:38 PM
                                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] Re: New Album "Toptrain Old Trains"


                                                                                                > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
                                                                                                > wrote:
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                > > From: frank <toptrain1@...>
                                                                                                > > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                > > Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 3:35 PM
                                                                                                > > Subject: [vintageHO] New Album "Toptrain Old Trains"
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > > I deleated my old album and replaced it with these photos of
                                                                                                > 1950, and
                                                                                                > > > 1960 cars from my collection
                                                                                                > > > farnk O toptrain
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > Some nice pieces there!
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > > Don
                                                                                                > These cars are run not sheveled
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > frank

                                                                                                That's the whole idea! <G>

                                                                                                Don

                                                                                                don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
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                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1397 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/12/2006
                                                                                                Subject: Re: Kadee magnets
                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                From: takefive247 <takefive@...>
                                                                                                To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 7:43 PM
                                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] Kadee magnets


                                                                                                > I've installed a Kadee # 308 uncoupler magnet in my main line and am
                                                                                                > having some unwanted uncoupling. The 308 is the one that goes under
                                                                                                > the track and works great except for the fact that it uncouples at
                                                                                                > will. Any suggestions?
                                                                                                > Bill

                                                                                                If there's any slack at all in the couplers when passing over the magnet
                                                                                                they will uncouple, that's how it works.

                                                                                                If you're travelling slow enough, the magnet can attract steel axles on the
                                                                                                cars, pulling them over the magnet causing uncoupling. This is why new
                                                                                                wheelsets tend to have brass axles now.

                                                                                                It's usually recommended that if you're going to have an uncoupler on the
                                                                                                mainline, use an electo-magnetic one for this very reason.

                                                                                                Don

                                                                                                don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
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                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1398 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 4/13/2006
                                                                                                Subject: Re: Kadee magnets
                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                From: takefive247 <takefive@...>
                                                                                                To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 7:43 PM
                                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] Kadee magnets


                                                                                                > I've installed a Kadee # 308 uncoupler magnet in my main line and am
                                                                                                > having some unwanted uncoupling. The 308 is the one that goes under
                                                                                                > the track and works great except for the fact that it uncouples at
                                                                                                > will. Any suggestions?
                                                                                                > Bill

                                                                                                I've seen people hinge the under track magnets so they drop away from the track preventing the unwanted uncoupling.
                                                                                                 I believe there was an article deminstrating how to set up the system in MR or RMC.



                                                                                                Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.

                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1399 From: takefive247 Date: 4/13/2006
                                                                                                Subject: Re: Kadee magnets
                                                                                                Thanks Guys,
                                                                                                Glenn, How does the chunk of steel help? I have a bunch of the
                                                                                                stick on lead weights. How much should the car weigh?
                                                                                                Ray, I saw that article on the drop down magnet somewhere, just
                                                                                                last week. Was hoping for a better solution. I have a narrow, finished
                                                                                                pine shelf, I'm cutting holes in left and right.
                                                                                                Don, I only have one of those electro-magnets left but I have a
                                                                                                dozen of the 308s. The cars in question at the moment, are Round
                                                                                                House, I think, Old time coaches, and some ore cars, with plastic
                                                                                                wheel sets. What's the best replacement metal wheel sets with brass
                                                                                                axles?
                                                                                                Does the curve or alignment of the trip pin have anything to do
                                                                                                with it?
                                                                                                As for electro-magnets. I have one that hums like crazy, (when I
                                                                                                push the button :-) ) Anyone know why it does that? Besides not
                                                                                                knowing the words.
                                                                                                Bill


                                                                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Ray Marinaccio <raymarinaccio@...>
                                                                                                wrote:
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                > From: takefive247 <takefive@...>
                                                                                                > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                > Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 7:43 PM
                                                                                                > Subject: [vintageHO] Kadee magnets
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > > I've installed a Kadee # 308 uncoupler magnet in my main line and am
                                                                                                > > having some unwanted uncoupling. The 308 is the one that goes under
                                                                                                > > the track and works great except for the fact that it uncouples at
                                                                                                > > will. Any suggestions?
                                                                                                > > Bill
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > I've seen people hinge the under track magnets so they drop away
                                                                                                from the track preventing the unwanted uncoupling.
                                                                                                > I believe there was an article deminstrating how to set up the
                                                                                                system in MR or RMC.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                > Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using
                                                                                                Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1400 From: Glenn Date: 4/13/2006
                                                                                                Subject: Re: Kadee magnets
                                                                                                A big chunk of steel, such as the Athearn car weights, or nuts used as weights, will cause a free-rolling car to be pulled in over the magnet--thereby introducing the slack needed to uncouple.
                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 6:38 AM
                                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Kadee magnets

                                                                                                Thanks Guys,
                                                                                                   Glenn, How does the chunk of steel help? I have a bunch of the
                                                                                                stick on lead weights. How much should the car weigh?
                                                                                                   Ray, I saw that article on the drop down magnet somewhere, just
                                                                                                last week. Was hoping for a better solution. I have a narrow, finished
                                                                                                pine shelf, I'm cutting holes in left and right.
                                                                                                   Don, I only have one of those electro-magnets left but I have a
                                                                                                dozen of the 308s. The cars in question at the moment, are Round
                                                                                                House, I think, Old time coaches, and some ore cars, with plastic
                                                                                                wheel sets. What's the best  replacement  metal wheel sets with brass
                                                                                                axles?
                                                                                                    Does the curve or alignment of the trip pin have anything to do
                                                                                                with it?
                                                                                                   As for electro-magnets. I have one that hums like crazy, (when I
                                                                                                push the button :-) ) Anyone know why it does that? Besides not
                                                                                                knowing the words.
                                                                                                Bill


                                                                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Ray Marinaccio <raymarinaccio@...>
                                                                                                wrote:
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >     ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                > From: takefive247 <takefive@...>
                                                                                                > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                > Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 7:43 PM
                                                                                                > Subject: [vintageHO] Kadee magnets
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > > I've installed a Kadee # 308 uncoupler magnet in my main line and am
                                                                                                > > having some unwanted uncoupling. The 308 is the one that goes under
                                                                                                > > the track and works great except for the fact that it uncouples at
                                                                                                > > will. Any suggestions?
                                                                                                > > Bill
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > I've seen people hinge the under track magnets so they drop away
                                                                                                from the track preventing the unwanted uncoupling.
                                                                                                >    I believe there was an article deminstrating how to set up the
                                                                                                system in MR or RMC.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >            
                                                                                                > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                > Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make  PC-to-Phone Calls using
                                                                                                Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.
                                                                                                >




                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1401 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/14/2006
                                                                                                Subject: Re: Kadee magnets
                                                                                                I like either the Life Like P2K wheels or Intermountains. Kadee makes their
                                                                                                own wheels with Delrin axles, but I'm not as fond of those.

                                                                                                As far as the "buzzing"magnet, does it still work? If so, the most likely
                                                                                                cause is the screws holding it together are loose.

                                                                                                Don

                                                                                                don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
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                                                                                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO

                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                From: takefive247 <takefive@...>
                                                                                                To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 8:38 AM
                                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Kadee magnets


                                                                                                Thanks Guys,
                                                                                                Glenn, How does the chunk of steel help? I have a bunch of the
                                                                                                stick on lead weights. How much should the car weigh?
                                                                                                Ray, I saw that article on the drop down magnet somewhere, just
                                                                                                last week. Was hoping for a better solution. I have a narrow, finished
                                                                                                pine shelf, I'm cutting holes in left and right.
                                                                                                Don, I only have one of those electro-magnets left but I have a
                                                                                                dozen of the 308s. The cars in question at the moment, are Round
                                                                                                House, I think, Old time coaches, and some ore cars, with plastic
                                                                                                wheel sets. What's the best replacement metal wheel sets with brass
                                                                                                axles?
                                                                                                Does the curve or alignment of the trip pin have anything to do
                                                                                                with it?
                                                                                                As for electro-magnets. I have one that hums like crazy, (when I
                                                                                                push the button :-) ) Anyone know why it does that? Besides not
                                                                                                knowing the words.
                                                                                                Bill
                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1402 From: frank Date: 4/16/2006
                                                                                                Subject: Toptrain here! New photo album. # Mantua goats get a overhaul.
                                                                                                I started to rework my goat heard. I have done most of the work done
                                                                                                on #1. The 3 will be painted for the Reading RR. One will be numbered
                                                                                                for the remaining one at Steamtown. The other two randomly numbered.
                                                                                                I'm not to protytipal in their detailing at this time. Just trying to
                                                                                                make them nice. Pilot part missing. So front pilots on two of them have
                                                                                                been replaced. Keep looking for updates.
                                                                                                Frank O toptrain
                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1403 From: Glenn Date: 4/16/2006
                                                                                                Subject: Re: Toptrain here! New photo album. # Mantua goats get a overhaul.
                                                                                                isn't there a #4 at Strasburg?
                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                From: frank
                                                                                                Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 8:35 AM
                                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] Toptrain here! New photo album. # Mantua goats get a overhaul.

                                                                                                I started to rework my goat heard. I have done most of the work done
                                                                                                on #1. The 3 will be painted for the Reading RR. One will be numbered
                                                                                                for the remaining one at Steamtown. The other two randomly numbered.
                                                                                                I'm not to protytipal in their detailing at this time. Just trying to
                                                                                                make them nice. Pilot part missing. So front pilots on two of them have
                                                                                                been replaced. Keep looking for updates.
                                                                                                                       Frank O toptrain



                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1405 From: frank Date: 4/16/2006
                                                                                                Subject: Re: Toptrain here! New photo album. # Mantua goats get a overhaul.
                                                                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > isn't there a #4 at Strasburg?
                                                                                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                > >Glenn : #4 was a paint over of Reading 1187. The Strousburgh
                                                                                                railroad had it on loan from Steamtown. Ran it till it was out of
                                                                                                service and gave it back to Steamtown. It has been returned to it's
                                                                                                original Reading paint.
                                                                                                frank o
                                                                                                > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                --------
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1406 From: Bill C. Date: 4/16/2006
                                                                                                Subject: Re: Toptrain here! New photo album. # Mantua goats get a overhaul.
                                                                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "frank" <toptrain1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@> wrote:
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > isn't there a #4 at Strasburg?
                                                                                                > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                > > >Glenn : #4 was a paint over of Reading 1187. The Strousburgh
                                                                                                > railroad had it on loan from Steamtown. Ran it till it was out of
                                                                                                > service and gave it back to Steamtown. It has been returned to it's
                                                                                                > original Reading paint.
                                                                                                > frank o

                                                                                                Frank, the correct spelling is Strasburg, as Glen had printed it.
                                                                                                Bill C.
                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1407 From: frank Date: 4/17/2006
                                                                                                Subject: Re: Toptrain here! New photo album. # Mantua goats get a overhaul.
                                                                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Bill C." <pennsysdaddy@...> wrote:
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "frank" <toptrain1@> wrote:
                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@> wrote:
                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                > > > isn't there a #4 at Strasburg?
                                                                                                > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                > > > >Glenn : #4 was a paint over of Reading 1187. The Strousburgh
                                                                                                > > railroad had it on loan from Steamtown. Ran it till it was out of
                                                                                                > > service and gave it back to Steamtown. It has been returned to it's
                                                                                                > > original Reading paint.
                                                                                                > > frank o
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Frank, the correct spelling is Strasburg, as Glen had printed it.
                                                                                                > Bill C.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                Bill : I realy don't care about spelling. frank o
                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1408 From: Glenn Date: 4/17/2006
                                                                                                Subject: Re: Toptrain here! New photo album. # Mantua goats get a overhaul.
                                                                                                I recall photographing a Reading/Mantua 0-4-0 Mother Hubbard with the #4 at Strasburg in 1967--that's when I was in the far east US  courtesy the US Army.
                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                From: frank
                                                                                                Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 5:44 PM
                                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Toptrain here! New photo album. # Mantua goats get a overhaul.

                                                                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > isn't there a #4 at Strasburg?  This #4 is a paint over of the
                                                                                                Steamtown loco. Their is only 1 0-4-0c left.

                                                                                                    frank
                                                                                                >   ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                >   From: frank
                                                                                                >   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                >   Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 8:35 AM
                                                                                                >   Subject: [vintageHO] Toptrain here! New photo album. # Mantua
                                                                                                goats get a overhaul.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >   I started to rework my goat heard. I have done most of the work
                                                                                                done
                                                                                                >   on #1. The 3 will be painted for the Reading RR. One will be
                                                                                                numbered
                                                                                                >   for the remaining one at Steamtown. The other two randomly
                                                                                                numbered.
                                                                                                >   I'm not to protytipal in their detailing at this time. Just
                                                                                                trying to
                                                                                                >   make them nice. Pilot part missing. So front pilots on two of
                                                                                                them have
                                                                                                >   been replaced. Keep looking for updates.
                                                                                                >                          Frank O toptrain
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
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                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1409 From: frank Date: 4/18/2006
                                                                                                Subject: Re: Toptrain here! New photo album. # Mantua goats get a overhaul.
                                                                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > I recall photographing a Reading/Mantua 0-4-0 Mother Hubbard with the
                                                                                                #4 at Strasburg in 1967--that's when I was in the far east US courtesy
                                                                                                the US Army.
                                                                                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                > From: frank
                                                                                                > Glenn Strasburg #4 is Reading 1187. They are the same locomotive. The
                                                                                                Strasburg Railroad nolonge has the 0-4-0c. Steamtown who owned it has
                                                                                                it again. It has been painted again, Reading. I have some old photos of
                                                                                                when my kids were little Standing on and by #4.
                                                                                                Frank O
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1410 From: Glenn Date: 4/18/2006
                                                                                                Subject: Re: Toptrain here! New photo album. # Mantua goats get a overhaul.
                                                                                                OK--that clears it up--as I recall Steamtown was still in New England at the time I was back there--a bit outside my authorized pass radius, let alone the trustworthy range oif my '60 Falcon.  gj
                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                From: frank
                                                                                                Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 6:58 AM
                                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Toptrain here! New photo album. # Mantua goats get a overhaul.

                                                                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > I recall photographing a Reading/Mantua 0-4-0 Mother Hubbard with the
                                                                                                #4 at Strasburg in 1967--that's when I was in the far east US  courtesy
                                                                                                the US Army.
                                                                                                >   ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                >   From: frank
                                                                                                > Glenn Strasburg #4 is Reading 1187. They are the same locomotive. The
                                                                                                Strasburg Railroad nolonge has the 0-4-0c. Steamtown who owned it has
                                                                                                it again. It has been painted again, Reading. I have some old photos of
                                                                                                when my kids were little Standing on and by #4.
                                                                                                                 Frank O
                                                                                                >




                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1411 From: Larry Date: 4/19/2006
                                                                                                Subject: Need Help Identifying This Engine
                                                                                                Does anyone know who made this engine and around what time period?

                                                                                                http://hoseeker.net/swapgallery/maintrainswap/2255dc93

                                                                                                Larry
                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1412 From: Gerry D Date: 4/19/2006
                                                                                                Subject: Re: Need Help Identifying This Engine
                                                                                                That's very interesting, from the picture it looks
                                                                                                like an early brass model. I like the connecting rods
                                                                                                and counterweights!
                                                                                                Cordially,
                                                                                                Gerry D

                                                                                                --- Larry <seekingho@...> wrote:

                                                                                                > Does anyone know who made this engine and around
                                                                                                > what time period?
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                http://hoseeker.net/swapgallery/maintrainswap/2255dc93
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Larry
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >


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                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1413 From: frank Date: 4/20/2006
                                                                                                Subject: Re: Need Help Identifying This Engine
                                                                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Larry" <seekingho@...> wrote:
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Does anyone know who made this engine and around what time period?
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > http://hoseeker.net/swapgallery/maintrainswap/2255dc93
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Larry
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                This is a Mantua diesel ! 15 years old !
                                                                                                toptrain
                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1414 From: Ray Hobin Date: 4/20/2006
                                                                                                Subject: Re: Need Help Identifying This Engine
                                                                                                On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 12:18:10 -0000, toptrain wrote:

                                                                                                >--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Larry" <seekingho@...> wrote:
                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                >> Does anyone know who made this engine and around what time period?
                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                >> http://hoseeker.net/swapgallery/maintrainswap/2255dc93
                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                >> Larry
                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                > This is a Mantua diesel ! 15 years old !
                                                                                                > toptrain

                                                                                                You sure? Only small diesel I recall Mantua making was the industrial yard
                                                                                                diesel, actually a Tyco unit which was later sold as a Mantua Plymouth yard
                                                                                                diesel. Both had identical bodies (part 2253) which differed from that in
                                                                                                the foto Larry referenced. It also had no top headlight or side rods.


                                                                                                Ray Hobin
                                                                                                NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX
                                                                                                Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1415 From: Mark Date: 4/20/2006
                                                                                                Subject: Re: Need Help Identifying This Engine
                                                                                                Attachments :
                                                                                                  I can verify that it is a Mantua locomotive, see photo of my Milwaukee Road version with the original box.  The model came with the sunshades.  The 1984 Walthers catalog lists 3 Mantua Davenport Diesels:
                                                                                                  407-08 Denver & Rio Grande
                                                                                                  407-22 New York Central
                                                                                                  407-68 Milwaukee Road
                                                                                                   
                                                                                                  The catalog states that these models were discontinued when sold out.  For what it is worth, the catalog shows one other small Mantua diesel identified as a Plymouth Yard diesel part number 401-16, DuPont roadname. 
                                                                                                   
                                                                                                  Mark

                                                                                                  Ray Hobin <tcol01@...> wrote:
                                                                                                  On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 12:18:10 -0000, toptrain wrote:

                                                                                                  >--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Larry" <seekingho@...> wrote:
                                                                                                  >>
                                                                                                  >> Does anyone know who made this engine and around what time period?
                                                                                                  >>
                                                                                                  >> http://hoseeker.net/swapgallery/maintrainswap/2255dc93
                                                                                                  >>
                                                                                                  >> Larry
                                                                                                  >>
                                                                                                  >  This is a Mantua diesel ! 15 years old !
                                                                                                  >          toptrain

                                                                                                  You sure?  Only small diesel I recall Mantua making was the industrial yard
                                                                                                  diesel, actually a Tyco unit which was later sold as a Mantua Plymouth yard
                                                                                                  diesel.  Both had identical bodies (part 2253) which differed from that in
                                                                                                  the foto Larry referenced.  It also had no top headlight or side rods.


                                                                                                  Ray Hobin
                                                                                                    NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX
                                                                                                    Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]


                                                                                                  Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for just 2¢/min with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.

                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1416 From: frank Date: 4/20/2006
                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Need Help Identifying This Engine
                                                                                                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mark <mph261@...> wrote:
                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                  > I can verify that it is a Mantua locomotive, see photo of my
                                                                                                  Milwaukee Road version with the original box. The model came with
                                                                                                  the sunshades. The 1984 Walthers catalog lists 3 Mantua Davenport
                                                                                                  Diesels:
                                                                                                  > 407-08 Denver & Rio Grande
                                                                                                  > 407-22 New York Central
                                                                                                  > 407-68 Milwaukee Road
                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                  > The catalog states that these models were discontinued when sold
                                                                                                  out. For what it is worth, the catalog shows one other small Mantua
                                                                                                  diesel identified as a Plymouth Yard diesel part number 401-16,
                                                                                                  DuPont roadname.
                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                  > Mark
                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                  > Ray Hobin <tcol01@...> wrote:
                                                                                                  > On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 12:18:10 -0000, toptrain wrote:
                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                  > >--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Larry" <seekingho@> wrote:
                                                                                                  > >>
                                                                                                  > >> Does anyone know who made this engine and around what time
                                                                                                  period?
                                                                                                  > >>
                                                                                                  > >> http://hoseeker.net/swapgallery/maintrainswap/2255dc93
                                                                                                  > >>
                                                                                                  > >> Larry
                                                                                                  > >>
                                                                                                  > > This is a Mantua diesel ! 15 years old !
                                                                                                  > > toptrain
                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                  > You sure? Only small diesel I recall Mantua making was the
                                                                                                  industrial yard
                                                                                                  > diesel, actually a Tyco unit which was later sold as a Mantua
                                                                                                  Plymouth yard
                                                                                                  > diesel. Both had identical bodies (part 2253) which differed from
                                                                                                  that in
                                                                                                  > the foto Larry referenced. It also had no top headlight or side
                                                                                                  rods.
                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                  > Ray Hobin
                                                                                                  > NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX
                                                                                                  > Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                  >
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                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                  Service.
                                                                                                  > toptrain here: Mantua just took the old diesel switcher and
                                                                                                  dolled it up with side rods two lights and shades. Then sold it for a
                                                                                                  whole lot more.
                                                                                                  Frank O toptrain
                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                  > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                  > ---------------------------------
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                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1417 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 4/20/2006
                                                                                                  Subject: Fwd: Atlas April '06 Reservations for the HO Scale Signal System
                                                                                                  Attachments :


                                                                                                    Note: forwarded message attached.


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                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1418 From: John Barlow Date: 4/21/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Fwd: Atlas April '06 Reservations for the HO Scale Signal System
                                                                                                    Dear Ray,
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    Impressive, but I wrote to Atlas already, asking if and when they will come out with PRR & B&O prototype signals? If not...ho-hum!
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    John

                                                                                                    Raymond Lorts Sr <RaymondLorts@...> wrote:


                                                                                                    Note: forwarded message attached.

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                                                                                                    To: raymondlorts@...
                                                                                                    From: lists@...
                                                                                                    Date: Thur, 20 Apr 06 17:35 PST

                                                                                                    Welcome to the Atlas E-News Flash
                                                                                                    The deadline for placing your guaranteed order/reservation with your local Atlas dealer on products listed below is Monday, May 15, 2006.
                                                                                                    Please have your reservation submitted to your dealer before this date to guarantee you don't miss out on any of these fine Atlas products.
                                                                                                    April 2006 Monthly Mini-Catalog - Special Edition
                                                                                                    N GP7&9
                                                                                                    NEW!!
                                                                                                    Atlas HO Signal System
                                                                                                    Atlas RR Report - Spring '06 Issue!
                                                                                                    The second issue of our online newsletter, the Atlas RR Report, is up and ready for viewing. It's packed with news, features, product information and more, including insights, interviews with our in-house experts, and tasty tidbits you just can't get anywhere else! To read all about it, click here.
                                                                                                    - Thank you,
                                                                                                    Atlas Model Railroad Co. Inc.
                                                                                                    378 Florence Avenue
                                                                                                    Hillside, NJ 07205

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                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1419 From: Ray Hobin Date: 4/21/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Need Help Identifying This Engine
                                                                                                    On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 15:48:33 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

                                                                                                    >I can verify that it is a Mantua locomotive, see photo of my Milwaukee Road version with the original box. The model came with the sunshades. The 1984 Walthers catalog lists 3 Mantua Davenport Diesels:
                                                                                                    > 407-08 Denver & Rio Grande
                                                                                                    > 407-22 New York Central
                                                                                                    > 407-68 Milwaukee Road
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > The catalog states that these models were discontinued when sold out. For what it is worth, the catalog shows one other small Mantua diesel identified as a Plymouth Yard diesel part number 401-16, DuPont roadname.

                                                                                                    Thanks for the clarification.....for some reason I have absolutely no
                                                                                                    recollection of that loco...looks kinda neat too.

                                                                                                    Ray
                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1420 From: Larry Date: 4/21/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Need Help Identifying This Engine
                                                                                                    Mark
                                                                                                    Thank You The information you provided helped out very much. You
                                                                                                    have a very interesting and nice engine. Do you know if there was a
                                                                                                    prototype of this model? The year and length of productions explains
                                                                                                    why I missed it.

                                                                                                    Larry



                                                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mark <mph261@...> wrote:
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > I can verify that it is a Mantua locomotive, see photo of my
                                                                                                    Milwaukee Road version with the original box. The model came with
                                                                                                    the sunshades. The 1984 Walthers catalog lists 3 Mantua Davenport
                                                                                                    Diesels:
                                                                                                    > 407-08 Denver & Rio Grande
                                                                                                    > 407-22 New York Central
                                                                                                    > 407-68 Milwaukee Road
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > The catalog states that these models were discontinued when sold
                                                                                                    out. For what it is worth, the catalog shows one other small Mantua
                                                                                                    diesel identified as a Plymouth Yard diesel part number 401-16,
                                                                                                    DuPont roadname.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Mark
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Ray Hobin <tcol01@...> wrote:
                                                                                                    > On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 12:18:10 -0000, toptrain wrote:
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > >--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Larry" <seekingho@> wrote:
                                                                                                    > >>
                                                                                                    > >> Does anyone know who made this engine and around what time
                                                                                                    period?
                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1421 From: Mark Date: 4/21/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Need Help Identifying This Engine
                                                                                                    Larry,
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    It's loosely based on the 38 25-ton to 35-ton units that Davenport built from 1927 through 1956.  Frank is correct that Mantua took their standard diesel switcher body and made some modifications to look "similar" to the Davenport prototype.  The prototype does have the siderods, the handrails along the top of the hood and the light on top of the hood.  There is a photo of the D & RGW unit #50 prototype on page 363 of "The Second Diesel Spotter's Guide."
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    Mark

                                                                                                    Larry <seekingho@...> wrote:
                                                                                                    Mark
                                                                                                    Thank You  The information you provided helped out very much.  You
                                                                                                    have a very interesting and nice engine.   Do you know if there was a
                                                                                                    prototype of this model?  The year and length of productions explains
                                                                                                    why I missed it.

                                                                                                    Larry



                                                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mark <mph261@...> wrote:
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > I can verify that it is a Mantua locomotive, see photo of my
                                                                                                    Milwaukee Road version with the original box.  The model came with
                                                                                                    the sunshades.  The 1984 Walthers catalog lists 3 Mantua Davenport
                                                                                                    Diesels:
                                                                                                    >   407-08 Denver & Rio Grande
                                                                                                    >   407-22 New York Central
                                                                                                    >   407-68 Milwaukee Road
                                                                                                    >   
                                                                                                    >   The catalog states that these models were discontinued when sold
                                                                                                    out.  For what it is worth, the catalog shows one other small Mantua
                                                                                                    diesel identified as a Plymouth Yard diesel part number 401-16,
                                                                                                    DuPont roadname.
                                                                                                    >   
                                                                                                    >   Mark
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Ray Hobin <tcol01@...> wrote:
                                                                                                    >   On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 12:18:10 -0000, toptrain wrote:
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > >--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Larry" <seekingho@> wrote:
                                                                                                    > >>
                                                                                                    > >> Does anyone know who made this engine and around what time
                                                                                                    period?







                                                                                                    Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.

                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1422 From: Glenn Date: 4/21/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Need Help Identifying This Engine
                                                                                                    The Rio Grande version is very loosely based on the actual #50, which was a 3-foot gauge loco built for the Sumpter Valley as their #101.  It later wound up on the Rio Grande as the switcher for the Silverton.In the mid sixties it wound up on the Roaring Camp & Big Trees at Felton, CA, where (So the story went) apparently the owner tried to "speed shift" it--tearing out several teeth on the main drive gear. From there it went, in "kit form" to Bob Shanks' collection at Hermosa, CO, then to the Colorado Railroad Museum at Golden, where she is getting the needed "dental work" and a complete rebuilding (as I heard it) courtesy the local Caterpillar Tractor dealer--since it is basically a Caterpilar on rails.  The prototype has a flush rear of the cab, not the step of the Mantua model.  Otherwise it is fairly representative of mid-sized industrial locos.  gj
                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    From: Larry
                                                                                                    Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 6:49 AM
                                                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Need Help Identifying This Engine

                                                                                                    Mark
                                                                                                    Thank You  The information you provided helped out very much.  You
                                                                                                    have a very interesting and nice engine.   Do you know if there was a
                                                                                                    prototype of this model?  The year and length of productions explains
                                                                                                    why I missed it.

                                                                                                    Larry



                                                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mark <mph261@...> wrote:
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > I can verify that it is a Mantua locomotive, see photo of my
                                                                                                    Milwaukee Road version with the original box.  The model came with
                                                                                                    the sunshades.  The 1984 Walthers catalog lists 3 Mantua Davenport
                                                                                                    Diesels:
                                                                                                    >   407-08 Denver & Rio Grande
                                                                                                    >   407-22 New York Central
                                                                                                    >   407-68 Milwaukee Road
                                                                                                    >   
                                                                                                    >   The catalog states that these models were discontinued when sold
                                                                                                    out.  For what it is worth, the catalog shows one other small Mantua
                                                                                                    diesel identified as a Plymouth Yard diesel part number 401-16,
                                                                                                    DuPont roadname.
                                                                                                    >   
                                                                                                    >   Mark
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Ray Hobin <tcol01@...> wrote:
                                                                                                    >   On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 12:18:10 -0000, toptrain wrote:
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > >--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Larry" <seekingho@> wrote:
                                                                                                    > >>
                                                                                                    > >> Does anyone know who made this engine and around what time
                                                                                                    period?





                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1423 From: Jack Priller Date: 4/23/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Passenger car help
                                                                                                    Many moons ago, one of the major hobby magazines had an article on
                                                                                                    folding your own diaphragms to go between cars; could some kind soul
                                                                                                    point me towards that article so I can borrow that issue from local
                                                                                                    MRR club. (Senior moment, cannot remember site that would do that
                                                                                                    search.)

                                                                                                    Many thanks,

                                                                                                    Jack Priller
                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1424 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 4/23/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Passenger car help
                                                                                                    I remember seeing those.  I did some poking around at http://www.index.mrmag.com/ and had no luck although there were a couple of 1937 articles mentioned that might describe the technique.
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    somebody else searching for the same thing saying:
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    "Years ago, maybe the early 70's or late 60's I had, or read an article, maybe in model rr magazine, on how to fold your own passenger car diaphragms from paper . I haven't been able to locate this info on line."
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    I don't have all issues from that period but I had a few so it didn't take me long to see if I would get lucky.  I did.
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    It is the August, 1960 Model Railroader article "Building a head-end car vrom photos and basic dimensions".  It is shown in Figure 1 on page 47 (and this is the diagram I remember seeing).  It shows you how to do the folding.  It doesn't show how to do the unfolding and whatever "origami" is needed to put it in the final form.  I can't visualize how you get from the folded item to the final item.  But perhaps an already folded Walthers diaphragm could be studied and reverse-engineered.  The article itself doesn't much beyond "Make up diaphragms of thin paper".
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    Chuck Kinzer
                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 7:44 AM
                                                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] Passenger car help

                                                                                                      Many moons ago, one of the major hobby magazines had an article on
                                                                                                    folding your own diaphragms to go between cars; could some kind soul
                                                                                                    point me towards that article so I can borrow that issue from local
                                                                                                    MRR club. (Senior moment, cannot remember site that would do that
                                                                                                    search.)

                                                                                                      Many thanks,

                                                                                                      Jack Priller


                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1425 From: frank Date: 4/23/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Three Mantua old Goats have been completed.
                                                                                                    In the photo ablums my album 3 Mantua Goats shows the overhaul results
                                                                                                    of the 3 locomotives. The 3 brass and cast 1950's old Goats have a new
                                                                                                    look. Goat #1 became Reading #1149, Goat #2 became the Reading #1187.
                                                                                                    This is the last 0-4-0c existing. It is now at Steamtown. Goat #3
                                                                                                    became Reading #1153. These are running loco's ready for assignment.
                                                                                                    This completes the overhaul. #1153 is a completely stock with the
                                                                                                    addition of marker lights.
                                                                                                    Frank O toptrain
                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1426 From: Glenn Date: 4/23/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Passenger car help
                                                                                                    I don't know how to scan in a drawing to send it to you--but if you'll send an ssae to me I'll copy the sheet with some of my LaBelle/Star On3 passenger car kits that shows you how--note "Diaphragm info" with it--
                                                                                                    Glenn Joesten
                                                                                                    3825 Pruett Drive
                                                                                                    Yreka, CA 96097-9708
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    gj
                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 7:44 AM
                                                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] Passenger car help

                                                                                                      Many moons ago, one of the major hobby magazines had an article on
                                                                                                    folding your own diaphragms to go between cars; could some kind soul
                                                                                                    point me towards that article so I can borrow that issue from local
                                                                                                    MRR club. (Senior moment, cannot remember site that would do that
                                                                                                    search.)

                                                                                                      Many thanks,

                                                                                                      Jack Priller



                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1427 From: Jack Priller Date: 4/24/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Passenger car help
                                                                                                    SSAE enroute to Glenn, and Chuck scanned the diagram that was in the
                                                                                                    magazine, so I guess betwixt the two them that problem is solved;
                                                                                                    thank you both.

                                                                                                    Jack

                                                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > I don't know how to scan in a drawing to send it to you--but if
                                                                                                    you'll send an ssae to me I'll copy the sheet with some of my
                                                                                                    LaBelle/Star On3 passenger car kits that shows you how--
                                                                                                    note "Diaphragm info" with it--
                                                                                                    > Glenn Joesten
                                                                                                    > 3825 Pruett Drive
                                                                                                    > Yreka, CA 96097-9708
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > gj
                                                                                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    > From: Jack Priller
                                                                                                    > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                    > Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 7:44 AM
                                                                                                    > Subject: [vintageHO] Passenger car help
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Many moons ago, one of the major hobby magazines had an
                                                                                                    article on
                                                                                                    > folding your own diaphragms to go between cars; could some kind
                                                                                                    soul
                                                                                                    > point me towards that article so I can borrow that issue from
                                                                                                    local
                                                                                                    > MRR club. (Senior moment, cannot remember site that would do
                                                                                                    that
                                                                                                    > search.)
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Many thanks,
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Jack Priller
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > SPONSORED LINKS Ho scale G scale model train G scale train
                                                                                                    > Ho scale model train Ho scale trains
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                                                                                                    >
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                                                                                                    > a.. Visit your group "vintageHO" on the web.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                    -----------
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1428 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 4/24/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Passenger car help
                                                                                                    I had that - I was just turning 14 and it was a great challenge.
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    As I remember, the trick is, after the folding, get it nearly flat again and reverse one of the legs of the "zee" and then, holding both ends, carefully pinch the whole thing together, keeping the legs parallel. I wish I had had the smarts to dye the paper first...I used yellow squared paper and tried painting it. Disastrous, as the only paint I had(Roundhouse Coach Green) stiffened the diaphragms beyond use, although I kept trying wit the now-expected derailments.
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    Applied them to the then-new Athearn standard coaches and a Pennline baggage car. About the same time, I discovered Kadee couplers, too! Expensive($1.20 for two pair) on 25 cents a week allowance...
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    Ah, my "good ol' days."
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut)

                                                                                                    "Charles E. Kinzer" <ckinzer@...> wrote:
                                                                                                    I remember seeing those.  I did some poking around at http://www.index.mrmag.com/ and had no luck although there were a couple of 1937 articles mentioned that might describe the technique.
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    somebody else searching for the same thing saying:
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    "Years ago, maybe the early 70's or late 60's I had, or read an article, maybe in model rr magazine, on how to fold your own passenger car diaphragms from paper . I haven't been able to locate this info on line."
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    I don't have all issues from that period but I had a few so it didn't take me long to see if I would get lucky.  I did.
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    It is the August, 1960 Model Railroader article "Building a head-end car vrom photos and basic dimensions".  It is shown in Figure 1 on page 47 (and this is the diagram I remember seeing).  It shows you how to do the folding.  It doesn't show how to do the unfolding and whatever "origami" is needed to put it in the final form.  I can't visualize how you get from the folded item to the final item.  But perhaps an already folded Walthers diaphragm could be studied and reverse-engineered.  The article itself doesn't much beyond "Make up diaphragms of thin paper".
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    Chuck Kinzer
                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 7:44 AM
                                                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] Passenger car help

                                                                                                      Many moons ago, one of the major hobby magazines had an article on
                                                                                                    folding your own diaphragms to go between cars; could some kind soul
                                                                                                    point me towards that article so I can borrow that issue from local
                                                                                                    MRR club. (Senior moment, cannot remember site that would do that
                                                                                                    search.)

                                                                                                      Many thanks,

                                                                                                      Jack Priller




                                                                                                    Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.

                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1429 From: Jack Priller Date: 4/24/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Passenger car help
                                                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Fred Hultberg <fhultberg@...>
                                                                                                    wrote:
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > I had that - I was just turning 14 and it was a great challenge.

                                                                                                    I'm 62 and it is still a great challenge.

                                                                                                    > As I remember, the trick is, after the folding, get it nearly
                                                                                                    > flat again and reverse one of the legs of the "zee" and then,
                                                                                                    > holding both ends, carefully pinch the whole thing together,
                                                                                                    keeping the legs parallel.
                                                                                                    -----------------------
                                                                                                    If I understand that correctly, I first do the Zee fold, then
                                                                                                    the 'fan fold', get it more or less flat but still in zee shape(?),
                                                                                                    reverse one leg and then re-do the fan-fold? I'll give it a try and
                                                                                                    if I have my "usual luck" will try again AFTER I get the additional
                                                                                                    data from Glenn. :>))
                                                                                                    -------------------------
                                                                                                    > I wish I had had the smarts to dye the paper first...I used yellow
                                                                                                    > squared paper and tried painting it. Disastrous, as the only paint
                                                                                                    > I had(Roundhouse Coach Green) stiffened the diaphragms beyond use,
                                                                                                    > although I kept trying wit the now-expected derailments.
                                                                                                    -----------------------

                                                                                                    Somewhere around here I have some soft grey paper left over from the
                                                                                                    last time I printed out some resumes; should look OK with some
                                                                                                    yellow over grey passenger cars. (Red lettering for the "Onion
                                                                                                    Pacific.")

                                                                                                    > Applied them to the then-new Athearn standard coaches and a
                                                                                                    > Pennline baggage car. About the same time, I discovered Kadee
                                                                                                    > couplers, too! Expensive($1.20 for two pair) on 25 cents a week
                                                                                                    > allowance...
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Ah, my "good ol' days."
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut)
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > "Charles E. Kinzer" <ckinzer@...> wrote:
                                                                                                    > I remember seeing those. I did some poking around at
                                                                                                    http://www.index.mrmag.com/ and had no luck although there were a
                                                                                                    couple of 1937 articles mentioned that might describe the technique.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > I noticed at http://experts.about.com/q/Model-Railroads-
                                                                                                    2372/scratch-building-diaphragms.htm
                                                                                                    > somebody else searching for the same thing saying:
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > "Years ago, maybe the early 70's or late 60's I had, or read an
                                                                                                    article, maybe in model rr magazine, on how to fold your own
                                                                                                    passenger car diaphragms from paper . I haven't been able to locate
                                                                                                    this info on line."
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > I don't have all issues from that period but I had a few so it
                                                                                                    didn't take me long to see if I would get lucky. I did.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > It is the August, 1960 Model Railroader article "Building a head-
                                                                                                    end car vrom photos and basic dimensions". It is shown in Figure 1
                                                                                                    on page 47 (and this is the diagram I remember seeing). It shows
                                                                                                    you how to do the folding. It doesn't show how to do the unfolding
                                                                                                    and whatever "origami" is needed to put it in the final form. I
                                                                                                    can't visualize how you get from the folded item to the final item.
                                                                                                    But perhaps an already folded Walthers diaphragm could be studied
                                                                                                    and reverse-engineered. The article itself doesn't much
                                                                                                    beyond "Make up diaphragms of thin paper".
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Chuck Kinzer
                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1430 From: Glenn Date: 4/25/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Passenger car help
                                                                                                    A trick I learned from the late John Armstrong--make the striker plate of clear plastic and paint the striker on it, leaving the "Passage" clear.  This keeps the diaphragm frames from catching on each other coming out of a curve and derailing.   Had that problem with a string of LaBelle coaches I ran on the CSRR.
                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 6:26 PM
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Passenger car help

                                                                                                    I had that - I was just turning 14 and it was a great challenge.
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    As I remember, the trick is, after the folding, get it nearly flat again and reverse one of the legs of the "zee" and then, holding both ends, carefully pinch the whole thing together, keeping the legs parallel. I wish I had had the smarts to dye the paper first...I used yellow squared paper and tried painting it. Disastrous, as the only paint I had(Roundhouse Coach Green) stiffened the diaphragms beyond use, although I kept trying wit the now-expected derailments.
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    Applied them to the then-new Athearn standard coaches and a Pennline baggage car. About the same time, I discovered Kadee couplers, too! Expensive($1.20 for two pair) on 25 cents a week allowance...
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    Ah, my "good ol' days."
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut)

                                                                                                    "Charles E. Kinzer" <ckinzer@...> wrote:
                                                                                                    I remember seeing those.  I did some poking around at http://www.index.mrmag.com/ and had no luck although there were a couple of 1937 articles mentioned that might describe the technique.
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    somebody else searching for the same thing saying:
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    "Years ago, maybe the early 70's or late 60's I had, or read an article, maybe in model rr magazine, on how to fold your own passenger car diaphragms from paper . I haven't been able to locate this info on line."
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    I don't have all issues from that period but I had a few so it didn't take me long to see if I would get lucky.  I did.
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    It is the August, 1960 Model Railroader article "Building a head-end car vrom photos and basic dimensions".  It is shown in Figure 1 on page 47 (and this is the diagram I remember seeing).  It shows you how to do the folding.  It doesn't show how to do the unfolding and whatever "origami" is needed to put it in the final form.  I can't visualize how you get from the folded item to the final item.  But perhaps an already folded Walthers diaphragm could be studied and reverse-engineered.  The article itself doesn't much beyond "Make up diaphragms of thin paper".
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    Chuck Kinzer
                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 7:44 AM
                                                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] Passenger car help

                                                                                                      Many moons ago, one of the major hobby magazines had an article on
                                                                                                    folding your own diaphragms to go between cars; could some kind soul
                                                                                                    point me towards that article so I can borrow that issue from local
                                                                                                    MRR club. (Senior moment, cannot remember site that would do that
                                                                                                    search.)

                                                                                                      Many thanks,

                                                                                                      Jack Priller




                                                                                                    Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.

                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1433 From: Garry Spear Date: 4/26/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Items for Sale
                                                                                                    I am starting to sell my older, not needed, HO items and parts. I
                                                                                                    have placed an asking price for the items on the picture. Asking is
                                                                                                    the operative word.

                                                                                                    http://users.rcn.com/gspear/VHO.htm will show the items.

                                                                                                    Garry Spear
                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1434 From: Gerry D Date: 4/26/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: playing with trains, CSX style
                                                                                                    You CAN get poetic at times!

                                                                                                    --- Imp Ster <iimpster@...> wrote:

                                                                                                    > i've tasted the soot and blinked at the sting of
                                                                                                    > cinders from 4501...
                                                                                                    > felt the heat and pulled the whistle cord of 8444...
                                                                                                    > thanked my lucky stars that the boiler of ol BHC #7
                                                                                                    > didnt take me to
                                                                                                    > Valhallah when her oil feed jammed wide open on her
                                                                                                    > first run up Tin
                                                                                                    > Mill Hill...
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > i've watched the sun rise and set on endless miles
                                                                                                    > of shining silver
                                                                                                    > steel rail from East to West and North to South.
                                                                                                    > Monon, Kenova, mountains tamed by the paralaxx view.
                                                                                                    > from Omaha thru Cheyenne runs the gleaming
                                                                                                    > perfection known as heavy
                                                                                                    > mainline rail..
                                                                                                    > thru the wheatlands of the heartlands, over the
                                                                                                    > Soldier Summit, runs
                                                                                                    > the iron ghost of our nations' greatness...
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > from the east bench of Salt Lake City, one can view
                                                                                                    > the pristine
                                                                                                    > vanishing points of both UP and D&RGW as they race
                                                                                                    > neck-&-neck to
                                                                                                    > meet the westering sun, flowing across the desert in
                                                                                                    > mirrored ribbons
                                                                                                    > of laser-level linear perfection.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > and as a devoted disciple of the Most High Principle
                                                                                                    > (4 ft 8½ in -
                                                                                                    > 1435 mm) i've been studying what is evidently to
                                                                                                    > some a lost art,
                                                                                                    > the fine art of the physical plant - since i was
                                                                                                    > knee high to a
                                                                                                    > switchstand.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > so i think i'm slightly more than passing qualified
                                                                                                    > to say, this
                                                                                                    > (descriptive corporate expletive deleted) sucks.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > but dont take my word for it.
                                                                                                    > lets see what the mainstream media has to say.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/01/05/virginia.derailment/?section=cnn_us
                                                                                                    > WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A commuter train en route to the
                                                                                                    > nation's capital
                                                                                                    > derailed...
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > (the "Nation's Capital".
                                                                                                    > is this what passes for superpower infrastructure
                                                                                                    > these days? -
                                                                                                    > perhaps the Terriers really HAVE won! )
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > http://www.potomacnews.com/servlet/Satellite?
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    pagename=WPN/MGArticle/WPN_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1128769134001&
                                                                                                    > path=
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > "The train always shakes a little when it makes the
                                                                                                    > switch at Possum
                                                                                                    > Point," Gilmore said. "You could feel the train
                                                                                                    > shake a little more
                                                                                                    > than usual." ... Several passengers, though, said
                                                                                                    > that the changeover
                                                                                                    > near Possum Point is routinely rough and that if an
                                                                                                    > accident were to
                                                                                                    > happen, that would be the place.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > (always shakes a little ...routinely rough ...
                                                                                                    > o tay then. )
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    http://www.fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2006/012006/01072006/158324/pri
                                                                                                    > nter_friendly
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > "...CSX, the company that owns the rails used by the
                                                                                                    > VRE, has hired a
                                                                                                    > person specifically to oversee passenger-rail
                                                                                                    > concerns, Roeber said.
                                                                                                    > He added that this week's derailment may have
                                                                                                    > brought the importance
                                                                                                    > of passenger-rail service to the attention of CSX
                                                                                                    > officials."
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > (gee... ya think so? ..one whole person added
                                                                                                    > to "oversee...concerns"... wonder if that was the
                                                                                                    > hysterical
                                                                                                    > character who called me... but never mind the
                                                                                                    > useless eaters, we all
                                                                                                    > know the "railroads" care fig-all about passenger
                                                                                                    > service, so how
                                                                                                    > about the importance of plain ol money-making
                                                                                                    > FREIGHT making it to
                                                                                                    > destination safely & reliably, that good enough for
                                                                                                    > yiz? )
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-
                                                                                                    > dyn/content/article/2006/01/05/AR2006010500491.html
                                                                                                    > (great photo of aftermath - click to enlarge)
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > ok, i really am done now.
                                                                                                    > lets send in the clowns, again.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > ...
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >


                                                                                                    __________________________________________________
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                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1435 From: Glenn Date: 4/26/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: update on why CSX SuXS
                                                                                                    Well--obviously since nothing has derailed there, why fix it?  (somewhat sarcastically)---Is the purple some sort of highlight you have applied to the railheads?
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    Reminds me of a very loose rail right in front of the M&SVRR clubhouse in Salinas a few years ago--finally the southbound Starlight stopped, and a friend of ours was in the cab--we showed him the rail right under his second unit--he called it in and UP sort of fixed it--enough to get by--
                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    From: Imp Ster
                                                                                                    Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 10:24 PM
                                                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] update on why CSX SuXS

                                                                                                    ok friends at Vintage HO, i know this isnt really topical, unless ya
                                                                                                    figger that the CSX track in question is really a museum piece of work
                                                                                                    that belongs in some PNAC toybox and i may very soon be obsolete myself
                                                                                                    when that 1:1 scale train finaly answers the call of Gravity & Momentum
                                                                                                    and comes knocking at my door.
                                                                                                    but this is the only forum i have to rant in, and i need this rant in
                                                                                                    public record if/when i go to that great shake-the-box-building-kit in
                                                                                                    the sky.

                                                                                                    but thats neither here nore there.
                                                                                                    why really DOES said CSX exude said suckiness?

                                                                                                    ok, so i make a THIRD call to CSX safety ops about this roadbed sink
                                                                                                    and finaly get somebody to call me back who SPEEKY DA ENGLEECH.
                                                                                                    Mr Middle Mgmt takes great pains to inform me in his bext condescending
                                                                                                    middle mgmnt manner that the "track inspector" (what box of stale
                                                                                                    Crakker Jacks do they pull these titles out of, anyway? - but i digest)
                                                                                                    anyway, this "track inspector" did indeed "inspect" the section of
                                                                                                    roadbed under consideration and proclaimed it "within normal operating
                                                                                                    variances".
                                                                                                    (un effn quote)

                                                                                                    this would be no big deal if i hadnt spend the better part of many an
                                                                                                    afternoon for the last few months watching more fast freights dancing
                                                                                                    and jitterbugging over that devils reach of track.
                                                                                                    but yesterdaty was really the worst... recent rains may have
                                                                                                    contributed to even more ground subsidence, and now the west side track
                                                                                                    has a dip that even my dimmest commuters are noticing.

                                                                                                    here's a shout out to any CSX bigwigs, if you can read/intuit portents
                                                                                                    of impending disaster/catastrophe:
                                                                                                    did this same "track inspector" sign off on the same stretch where that
                                                                                                    VRE train came off the track a few months back?
                                                                                                    (why yes, i think he must have.)

                                                                                                    ok, i'm done.
                                                                                                    let the following pictures conjure up a thousand words, none of them
                                                                                                    complimentary in the slightest.
                                                                                                    (CC: to the FRA)

                                                                                                    ...

                                                                                                    http://www.geocities.com/iimpster/rxr.jpg

                                                                                                    http://www.geocities.com/iimpster/wtf2.jpg

                                                                                                    http://www.geocities.com/iimpster/wtf-is-THIS.jpg

                                                                                                    ...

                                                                                                    ps, speaking of precedent:
                                                                                                    FRA Assesses Fines Against CSX Transportation Totaling $227,000 for
                                                                                                    Safety Violations at Highway-Rail Grade Crossing
                                                                                                    ( http://www.fra.dot.gov/us/press-releases/87 )

                                                                                                    and from http://www.fra.dot.gov/us/content/85 , we have this succint
                                                                                                    gem of understatement:

                                                                                                    >From 1995 through 2000, the Federal Railroad Administration's safety
                                                                                                    data showed an upward trend in the number of derailments on main-line
                                                                                                    track caused by broken rails. Broken rail is defined as any type of
                                                                                                    condition consisting of a complete fracture or sufficient fissures that
                                                                                                    render the rail unfit for the normal operation of trains..

                                                                                                    On January 5th, 2006 at 6:45am, VRE's Fredericksburg line train #304
                                                                                                    bound for Washington D.C. derailed at Possum Point just north of
                                                                                                    Quantico, Virginia. Four people, including one conductor suffered minor
                                                                                                    injuries and were treated and released by medical personnel. The NTSB
                                                                                                    is investigating the cause of the derailment - the first in VRE's 13
                                                                                                    year history.

                                                                                                    just north of Quantico, Virginia...
                                                                                                    hello? anybody home?
                                                                                                    helloo000OOOO!

                                                                                                    ...






                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1436 From: Rick Jones Date: 4/26/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: update on why CSX SuXS
                                                                                                    Imp Ster wrote:
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > ok, so i make a THIRD call to CSX safety ops about this roadbed sink
                                                                                                    > and finaly get somebody to call me back who SPEEKY DA ENGLEECH.
                                                                                                    > Mr Middle Mgmt takes great pains to inform me in his bext condescending
                                                                                                    > middle mgmnt manner that the "track inspector" (what box of stale
                                                                                                    > Crakker Jacks do they pull these titles out of, anyway? - but i digest)
                                                                                                    > anyway, this "track inspector" did indeed "inspect" the section of
                                                                                                    > roadbed under consideration and proclaimed it "within normal operating
                                                                                                    > variances".

                                                                                                    So send a video to the local TV news about hazardous railroad
                                                                                                    infrastructure. If it gets on the air expect it to be repaired in 48 hours.

                                                                                                    --

                                                                                                    Rick Jones

                                                                                                    The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad
                                                                                                    http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/

                                                                                                    The sign at the checkout counter said "8 items or less," so I
                                                                                                    changed my name to Less.
                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1437 From: Dave Slater Date: 4/26/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: update on why CSX SuXS
                                                                                                    Or set up a video camera and have "eyewitness tape" of the first train
                                                                                                    to "fall over" then tell management I told you so.. <VBG>
                                                                                                    Dave S.

                                                                                                    Rick Jones wrote:
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > So send a video to the local TV news about hazardous railroad
                                                                                                    > infrastructure. If it gets on the air expect it to be repaired in 48
                                                                                                    > hours.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > --
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Rick Jones
                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1438 From: Imp Ster Date: 4/28/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: update on the CSX toy tracks
                                                                                                    greets all - as promised, an exclusing update to my pals at Vinatge
                                                                                                    HO - tnx to those who chimed in with encouraging words -
                                                                                                    i did get a call from a helpful fellow at FRA and he promised to drop
                                                                                                    by in person soon.
                                                                                                    he did see the images that i linked previously and agrees there is an
                                                                                                    issue, but he also cautions me not to expect miracles ( once known as
                                                                                                    plain old "excellence" ) as they (the FRA) have to abide by
                                                                                                    established guidelines, such as they are.

                                                                                                    i think my duplicate post at http://www.csx-sucks.com/ may get more
                                                                                                    results, as those are the hoggers and crew who have to live (or
                                                                                                    possibly die) with the situation.

                                                                                                    in other news, the Whistle Stop now has a webcam!
                                                                                                    interested voyuers can log in to the Yahoo Messenger via
                                                                                                    my "iimpster" contact and watch the trains roll by.
                                                                                                    soon i will get a USB extension for the camera wire and hang the cam
                                                                                                    at the window looking up the tracks towards the very section under
                                                                                                    discussion.
                                                                                                    who knows, some lucky viewer might even see that track give way!

                                                                                                    truly, i am blessed!

                                                                                                    cheers

                                                                                                    ...
                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1439 From: takefive247 Date: 4/28/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: update on the CSX toy tracks
                                                                                                    And I ask again. How does one view this dang webcam. In simple first
                                                                                                    grade english so this old fart can understand. Step by step including
                                                                                                    half steps.
                                                                                                    Bill


                                                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Imp Ster" <iimpster@...> wrote:
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > greets all - as promised, an exclusing update to my pals at Vinatge
                                                                                                    > HO - tnx to those who chimed in with encouraging words -
                                                                                                    > i did get a call from a helpful fellow at FRA and he promised to drop
                                                                                                    > by in person soon.
                                                                                                    > he did see the images that i linked previously and agrees there is an
                                                                                                    > issue, but he also cautions me not to expect miracles ( once known as
                                                                                                    > plain old "excellence" ) as they (the FRA) have to abide by
                                                                                                    > established guidelines, such as they are.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > i think my duplicate post at http://www.csx-sucks.com/ may get more
                                                                                                    > results, as those are the hoggers and crew who have to live (or
                                                                                                    > possibly die) with the situation.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > in other news, the Whistle Stop now has a webcam!
                                                                                                    > interested voyuers can log in to the Yahoo Messenger via
                                                                                                    > my "iimpster" contact and watch the trains roll by.
                                                                                                    > soon i will get a USB extension for the camera wire and hang the cam
                                                                                                    > at the window looking up the tracks towards the very section under
                                                                                                    > discussion.
                                                                                                    > who knows, some lucky viewer might even see that track give way!
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > truly, i am blessed!
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > cheers
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > ...
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1440 From: kilbeggan68 Date: 4/29/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Only my opinon
                                                                                                    The latest posts seem to be off topic.
                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1441 From: James B Date: 4/29/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Question on a Vintage Diecast Steam Tank Loco Shell
                                                                                                    Hello,

                                                                                                    I found a couple of old diecast loco shells and can not identify one
                                                                                                    of them. I have posted a pic online of the 2 shells at:
                                                                                                    http://www.geocities.com/scrimjimmy/loco.JPG

                                                                                                    Its the one on the left that I would like to know. The one on the
                                                                                                    right is an old diecast Mantua 0-4-0T. Thanks for all your help.

                                                                                                    --
                                                                                                    James Bartelt
                                                                                                    jimbartelt@...

                                                                                                    Jim's Railroad & Great Lakes Photo's
                                                                                                    http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumList?u=1751079

                                                                                                    METRO RR Club
                                                                                                    http://www.metrorrclub.org
                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1442 From: John Barlow Date: 4/29/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Question on a Vintage Diecast Steam Tank Loco Shell
                                                                                                    The Mantua "Booster" 0-4-0T is maybe even post-1954 whern the first came out in a kit in a maroon and blue-bottomed box. at nine years of age i humped my butt to earn the $9.95 to buy that kit thaty my father and a friend of his put together on a Saturday night. On my few small layouts (and whatever larger is to come) No. 1 has right of way over all brass and super-detailed plastic locos.
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    John

                                                                                                    James B <jimbartelt@...> wrote:
                                                                                                    Hello,

                                                                                                    I found a couple of old diecast loco shells and can not identify one
                                                                                                    of them. I have posted a pic online of the 2 shells at:
                                                                                                    http://www.geocities.com/scrimjimmy/loco.JPG

                                                                                                    Its the one on the left that I would like to know. The one on the
                                                                                                    right is an old diecast Mantua 0-4-0T. Thanks for all your help.

                                                                                                    --
                                                                                                    James Bartelt
                                                                                                    jimbartelt@...

                                                                                                    Jim's Railroad & Great Lakes Photo's
                                                                                                    http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumList?u=1751079

                                                                                                    METRO RR Club
                                                                                                    http://www.metrorrclub.org





                                                                                                    Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.

                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1443 From: Garry Spear Date: 4/29/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Question on a Vintage Diecast Steam Tank Loco Shell
                                                                                                    Jim,

                                                                                                    The one on the left is the same same casting as shown in some early
                                                                                                    PFM catalogs. However, I've seen the same casting (or look alike) in
                                                                                                    other ads. NEW ONE and INTERNATIONAL are two ads I seem to remember.

                                                                                                    My thought is the casting (and loco) was an inexpensive early Japanese loco.

                                                                                                    Garry Spear

                                                                                                    On 4/29/06, James B <jimbartelt@...> wrote:
                                                                                                    > Hello,
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > I found a couple of old diecast loco shells and can not identify one
                                                                                                    > of them. I have posted a pic online of the 2 shells at:
                                                                                                    > http://www.geocities.com/scrimjimmy/loco.JPG
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Its the one on the left that I would like to know. The one on the
                                                                                                    > right is an old diecast Mantua 0-4-0T. Thanks for all your help.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > --
                                                                                                    > James Bartelt
                                                                                                    > jimbartelt@...
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Jim's Railroad & Great Lakes Photo's
                                                                                                    > http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumList?u=1751079
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > METRO RR Club
                                                                                                    > http://www.metrorrclub.org
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1444 From: Phil VanderHeyden Date: 4/30/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Repower for Athearn
                                                                                                    I'm repowering several of my older Athearns with can motors. The
                                                                                                    problem I'm having is locating a 2mm to 1/8 inch bushing so I can use
                                                                                                    the stock flywheels. I've repowered one unit with some A-line flywheels
                                                                                                    that had 2mm holes, but I'd like to use the stock flywheels to keep
                                                                                                    costs down. Does anyone know of a bushing that converts 2mm to 1/8? I
                                                                                                    didn't see this size listed in the NWSL list.

                                                                                                    thanks,

                                                                                                    Phil
                                                                                                    Baltimore
                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1445 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/30/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Only my opinon
                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    From: kilbeggan68 <wedfrentz@...>
                                                                                                    To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                    Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 5:03 PM
                                                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] Only my opinon


                                                                                                    > The latest posts seem to be off topic.

                                                                                                    They are, I agree. However, I don't like to be too "heavy handed", as long
                                                                                                    as they don't start a long thread I've been tending to let them through.

                                                                                                    I would like other member's opinions though. Even though I'm the group
                                                                                                    "owner", this IS "Your group" (all the members).

                                                                                                    Don

                                                                                                    don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                    http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                    moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                    moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                    moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                    co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1446 From: Don Dellmann Date: 4/30/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Question on a Vintage Diecast Steam Tank Loco Shell
                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    From: Garry Spear <garrettspear@...>
                                                                                                    To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                    Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 11:42 PM
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Question on a Vintage Diecast Steam Tank Loco Shell


                                                                                                    > Jim,
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > The one on the left is the same same casting as shown in some early
                                                                                                    > PFM catalogs. However, I've seen the same casting (or look alike) in
                                                                                                    > other ads. NEW ONE and INTERNATIONAL are two ads I seem to remember.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > My thought is the casting (and loco) was an inexpensive early Japanese
                                                                                                    loco.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Garry Spear

                                                                                                    I recall that engine, I was looking for a catalog picture but couldn't find
                                                                                                    one since that same engine came to mind when I saw the picture. As I
                                                                                                    recall, it was actually a 6 coupled engine (may have even been a 2-6-2-t),
                                                                                                    and I DO remember it being advertised as made by Tenshodo.

                                                                                                    Don

                                                                                                    don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                    http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                    moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                    moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                    moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                    co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1447 From: Ray Hobin Date: 4/30/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Question on a Vintage Diecast Steam Tank Loco Shell
                                                                                                    >----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    >From: Garry Spear <garrettspear@...>
                                                                                                    >To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                    >Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 11:42 PM
                                                                                                    >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Question on a Vintage Diecast Steam Tank Loco Shell
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >> Jim,
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >> The one on the left is the same same casting as shown in some early
                                                                                                    >> PFM catalogs. However, I've seen the same casting (or look alike) in
                                                                                                    >> other ads. NEW ONE and INTERNATIONAL are two ads I seem to remember.
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >> My thought is the casting (and loco) was an inexpensive early Japanese
                                                                                                    >loco.
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >> Garry Spear
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >I recall that engine, I was looking for a catalog picture but couldn't find
                                                                                                    >one since that same engine came to mind when I saw the picture. As I
                                                                                                    >recall, it was actually a 6 coupled engine (may have even been a 2-6-2-t),


                                                                                                    Sure looks like a variation of the Baldwin 0-6-0T switcher which appeared
                                                                                                    on page 3 of my PFM 7th Edition catalog. Special kits were available to
                                                                                                    convert it to a 2-6-2T including an "oldie" with balloon stack.

                                                                                                    Ray Hobin
                                                                                                    NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX
                                                                                                    Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1448 From: kilbeggan68 Date: 4/30/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Repower for Athern
                                                                                                    You might check ksmetals.com for brass tubing sizes that may
                                                                                                    "make up the difference".This tube has telescoping sizes that can be
                                                                                                    combined to make bushings and bearings etc.I use Loctite blue to
                                                                                                    assemble.Just an idea.Check it out.
                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1449 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 4/30/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Only my opinon

                                                                                                    Don-agree with your philosophy.  One or two “comments” is interesting for a change-up, but if the thread starts to get long (and sometimes hostile), then it’s your call to edit.  Sometimes there is some interesting stuff we won’t get elsewhere (ie the links we have a choice of following when posted), but the real thrust of the group is vintage H.O.   Jerry Garteiser

                                                                                                     


                                                                                                    From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann
                                                                                                    Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2006 3:13 AM
                                                                                                    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Only my opinon

                                                                                                     


                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    From: kilbeggan68 <wedfrentz@...>
                                                                                                    To: < vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >
                                                                                                    Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 5:03 PM
                                                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] Only my opinon


                                                                                                    > The latest posts seem to be off topic.

                                                                                                    They are, I agree.  However, I don't like to be too "heavy handed", as long
                                                                                                    as they don't start a long thread I've been tending to let them through.

                                                                                                    I would like other member's opinions though.  Even though I'm the group
                                                                                                    "owner", this IS "Your group" (all the members).

                                                                                                    Don

                                                                                                    don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                    http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                    moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                    moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                    moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                    co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO


                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1450 From: Jack Priller Date: 4/30/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Only my opinon
                                                                                                    As a moderator, I had thought of stopping that thread, but
                                                                                                    figured' "Hey, it's Don's list...". But I also like Jerry's idea: If
                                                                                                    it is somewhat off-topic, post a link with a brief synopsis for
                                                                                                    those who might be interested.

                                                                                                    Jack "Ye Olde Trolleynut" Priller

                                                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Garteiser" <jerryg@...>
                                                                                                    wrote:
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Don-agree with your philosophy. One or two "comments" is
                                                                                                    interesting for a
                                                                                                    > change-up, but if the thread starts to get long (and sometimes
                                                                                                    hostile),
                                                                                                    > then it's your call to edit. Sometimes there is some interesting
                                                                                                    stuff we
                                                                                                    > won't get elsewhere (ie the links we have a choice of following
                                                                                                    when
                                                                                                    > posted), but the real thrust of the group is vintage H.O. Jerry
                                                                                                    Garteiser
                                                                                                    >

                                                                                                    > > The latest posts seem to be off topic.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > They are, I agree. However, I don't like to be too "heavy
                                                                                                    handed", as long
                                                                                                    > as they don't start a long thread I've been tending to let them
                                                                                                    through.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > I would like other member's opinions though. Even though I'm the
                                                                                                    group
                                                                                                    > "owner", this IS "Your group" (all the members).
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Don
                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1451 From: Garry Spear Date: 4/30/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Question on a Vintage Diecast Steam Tank Loco Shell
                                                                                                    Also, Kemtron conversion kits to add a trailing truck to a samll
                                                                                                    switcher line the Mantua and PFM offerings. The sales pitch was to
                                                                                                    improve electrical pick-up. I no longer have my old Kemtron catalog
                                                                                                    to check.

                                                                                                    Garry Spear

                                                                                                    On 4/30/06, Ray Hobin <tcol01@...> wrote:
                                                                                                    > >----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    > >From: Garry Spear <garrettspear@...>
                                                                                                    > >To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                    > >Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 11:42 PM
                                                                                                    > >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Question on a Vintage Diecast Steam Tank Loco Shell
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    > >> Jim,
                                                                                                    > >>
                                                                                                    > >> The one on the left is the same same casting as shown in some early
                                                                                                    > >> PFM catalogs. However, I've seen the same casting (or look alike) in
                                                                                                    > >> other ads. NEW ONE and INTERNATIONAL are two ads I seem to remember.
                                                                                                    > >>
                                                                                                    > >> My thought is the casting (and loco) was an inexpensive early Japanese
                                                                                                    > >loco.
                                                                                                    > >>
                                                                                                    > >> Garry Spear
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    > >I recall that engine, I was looking for a catalog picture but couldn't find
                                                                                                    > >one since that same engine came to mind when I saw the picture. As I
                                                                                                    > >recall, it was actually a 6 coupled engine (may have even been a 2-6-2-t),
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Sure looks like a variation of the Baldwin 0-6-0T switcher which appeared
                                                                                                    > on page 3 of my PFM 7th Edition catalog. Special kits were available to
                                                                                                    > convert it to a 2-6-2T including an "oldie" with balloon stack.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Ray Hobin
                                                                                                    > NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX
                                                                                                    > Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1452 From: Imp Ster Date: 4/30/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: an onion from da imp ( & webcam proceedure)
                                                                                                    greets all -

                                                                                                    apologies once again from dragging the forum off-topic a bit.
                                                                                                    just consider that i am hoping that among these vintage lurkers are
                                                                                                    some with contacts or clout in the proto industry.

                                                                                                    (like the initial list respondent from the FRA who emailed me privately
                                                                                                    about the issue, but was then never heard from again... i guess they
                                                                                                    got to him.. ? )

                                                                                                    anyway, the rant now has a home over at CSX-Sucks.com ; we'l see what
                                                                                                    that produces.

                                                                                                    closer to home, the tech on webcam viewing is easy enough if you have
                                                                                                    the Yahoo Messenger installed, or you can use the Trillian Pro edition
                                                                                                    which supports all other instant messenger applications ( Yahoo, AOL -
                                                                                                    AIM, MSN, etc etc).
                                                                                                    i use Yahoo because it's free and ubiquitous, fairly relaible once you
                                                                                                    ock out all the advertising crap.
                                                                                                    (hint: disable Yahoo Insider at once!)

                                                                                                    to view any member's webcam, first you add their ID to your Messenger
                                                                                                    list as a Contact, then simply right-clik on their ID in the Messenger
                                                                                                    main console; you will get a drop-menu that includes "View Webcam" in
                                                                                                    the options, clik that to open a small camera frame.
                                                                                                    (no permission should be needed; i set the option to "allow anyone to
                                                                                                    view my webcam" in my own Preferences)
                                                                                                    some versions allow you to go full-frame at your end.
                                                                                                    (all i see from here is a 3x5 snap.)

                                                                                                    in the Vintage HO "Files" area, are 2 JPGs showing what the camera
                                                                                                    frame typicaly looks like on the recipient's Desktop (just 2 views of
                                                                                                    the home layout).
                                                                                                    the station camera is much better quality and is able to capture
                                                                                                    individual cars in passing (proto) trains with a high degree of detail.

                                                                                                    one can save instances of webcam moments by pressing "print-screen"
                                                                                                    key, then pasting the resulting screenshot directly to Paint or other
                                                                                                    bitmap editor.
                                                                                                    you can then edit out the junk (such as taskbar etc) and save as a JPG
                                                                                                    for your files.

                                                                                                    since my home HO railroading has been a bit scarce lately due to all
                                                                                                    the 1:1 goings-on, i will compensate somewhat by making the station
                                                                                                    webcam available to the wWw Publik, every weekday from 3 PM (ish) til
                                                                                                    closing at 8 PM.
                                                                                                    that's enough time for all the evening VREs, most of the Amtraks, and
                                                                                                    plenty of those hell-bent-4-leather CSX freights.

                                                                                                    Vintage HO members are also welcome to yak me up on the IM, however
                                                                                                    please bear in mind that i do have to look busy from time to time and
                                                                                                    cant always bucket-mouth extensively on the IM.
                                                                                                    (and, please remember that the station monitors show all computer
                                                                                                    traffic, so keep it clean unless politely cussing on VRE, Amtrak or CSX
                                                                                                    topic)

                                                                                                    cheers

                                                                                                    ...
                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1453 From: Imp Ster Date: 4/30/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: update on the webcam tech
                                                                                                    greets Bill -

                                                                                                    1st, do you have the Yahoo Messenger installed?
                                                                                                    it's a free download (about 40 minutes on dial-up, very fast on DSL) -
                                                                                                    and is used with your existing Yahoo identity.
                                                                                                    go here to get more information: http://messenger.yahoo.com/

                                                                                                    once you have the Messenger, you can send IM's (instant messages) to
                                                                                                    any Yahoo member, including all us grumps in Vintage HO, by cliking
                                                                                                    on the tiny face, (awake or sleeping), seen next to member's ID in
                                                                                                    the posts, or near their File or Photo offerings.
                                                                                                    even if the tiny face is "asleep", any message you send will go into
                                                                                                    an "offline" archive, and then show up on their Desktop when they
                                                                                                    next sign in.
                                                                                                    (if they are lurking as "invisible, they get the IM immediately)

                                                                                                    in the Console list, member's often display a "status message" which
                                                                                                    can change to show when a camera is operating.
                                                                                                    clik this message line itself (it should be a bright color indicating
                                                                                                    that it links to something like a webpage) - to open a webcam frame.
                                                                                                    generally my webcam status message will read: "RXR! - Look Out For
                                                                                                    The Cars!" or similar - simply clik directly on that message line
                                                                                                    (should be a bright blue text) - to open a cam frame.

                                                                                                    or, when cameras are available but not advertised as such, member's
                                                                                                    webcams are viewed by right-clicking on their Contact (their name in
                                                                                                    the Messenger main console) and selecting "view webcam" from
                                                                                                    resulting drop-down menu.
                                                                                                    (some folks keep their cams restricted to a list of certain contacts;
                                                                                                    however for my experiment, come one come all, gettit while its hot
                                                                                                    etc etc)

                                                                                                    hope this gets you on board, let me know if ya want more info.
                                                                                                    we're all in this together, thats the great thing about the web.

                                                                                                    cheers

                                                                                                    ...


                                                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "takefive247" <takefive@...> wrote:
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > And I ask again. How does one view this dang webcam. In simple first
                                                                                                    > grade english so this old fart can understand. Step by step
                                                                                                    including
                                                                                                    > half steps.
                                                                                                    > Bill
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1454 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 4/30/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Question on a Vintage Diecast Steam Tank Loco Shell
                                                                                                    Regarding Kemtron conversion kits for the PFM 0-6-0 (and PFM):
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    It started out with two conversion kits, then there were three (from the 4th edition Kemtron catalog).  I don't know the date of the catalog.  I've got more Kemtron catalogs around somewhere, but not handy.  Perhaps the third kit came after PFM stopped selling the Tenshodo 0-6-0, but that would seem unlikely.  At any rate, nowhere does PFM ever offer the third kit.
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    X-261 "Old Timer Conversion".  "It includes two head lamps, one air pump, bell, whistle, steamgerator, oil tank hatch, and wood beam pilot".  [It does not have a stack and just leaves the Tenshodo straight capped style stack.  The air pump is a single stage.  The head lights are arc lamps.  Example is lettered "Elk Lumber Co."]
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    X-262 "Modern Industrial Conversion"  "The 'Industrial' conversions are becoming more popular every day.  They have the crisp modern look yet are still good old steam power.  This set of parts include, two of our plastic industrial pilots, smoke stack, air pump, bell, whistle, head light, steam generator and a roof mounting spot light..."  [Stack is straight and not capped.  The air pump is two stage.  The head lights are modern with visors.  Example is lettered "Howe Cement Co.]
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    X2263 "Deluxe Conversion" also described as the "Woods Engine".  "The 'Woods Engine' a deluxe kit for the most critical craftsman.  Twenty four castings, lead truck, hand rail posts, marker lamp jewels, grap irons, complete valve gear kit and the most highly detailed set of cylinders in the history of HO."    [Stack is balloon and a plain turning.  Air pump is single stage.  Head lights are modern with no visors.  Cylinders are piston valve type replacing the D valve type.]
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    Conversion kit history in PFM catalogs:
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    1st edition PRM catalog:  This is the original looseleaf one.  I haven't seen the 0-6-0 in one of these.  But that doesn't mean there wasn't a sheet for them.  However, one that I have is pretty full of the other Tenshodo engines and this one isn't there.
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    2nd edition PFM catalog:  The first two kits above show up.  The stock Tenshodo kit is shown on a page and a whole facing page is dedicated to the two Kemtron kits.  Photos of complete engines are shown that are the same photos as in the Kemtron 4th edition catalog.  And the photos are shown as large as the stock kit photo.  the price list mentions "Kemtron Coversion kits, either type ... 3.95."
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    3rd edition PFM catalog:  The kits aren't mentioned in either the catalog or price list.  Only a photo of the stock engine is shown.  However, the stock photo is of an engine with a few detail parts added (not head light or stack, though).  The description includes:  "...does not contain generator, pump nor bell.  A special Kemtron sheet packed with each kit shows deatiling parts especially assembled by Kemtron for this model."  This is probably not "kits" but just parts at this time.
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    4th edition PFM catalog:  Two small photos of the same painted and finished kits are shown.  But the photos aren't quite the same.  They are taken a little more straight from the side with better lighting and also from a slightly lower angle.  (More All it says about Kemtron kits is "Photos at left of converesions using two of the available Kemtron kits."
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    5th edition PFM catalog:  Same as above.
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    6th edition PFM catalog:  Shows two small photos of unpainted converted engines.  Text mentions "Photos at left are of conversions from two available parts kits offed by PFM, using Cal-Sclae and imported parts.  A special version of the 0-6-0 kit is available with all holes drilled and the detainling may be attached with pliers, tweezers, and cement..."  The versions are pretty close to the "Old Timer" and "Industrial" but the detail parts are clearly not the same.  Also, the "Old Timer" now has a balloon stack but it isn't a simple turning like on the Kemtron "Deluxe Conversion" but is a casting with rivet detail.  Also, both kits have now have lead trucks.  Also, the photos are actually to the right, not left, of the text.  Price list says "Special drilled kit for alteration (Available Feb., 1961) ... 9.95" and "Parts Kit to Convert to Industrial or Old Timer, illustrated ... 7.95."
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    7th edition PFM catalog:  Shows stock and two additional photos with three equal size photographs.  Has more verbage about the what is called "Special Kits" now.  Price list says same as above.
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    8th edition PFM catalog:  Just when you thought the name Kemtron had been phased out, the Kemtron kits AND the PFM kits are BOTH shown.  Four little photos flank the larger stock photo.  At the left is "With Kemtron X-261 Kit" and "With PFM Old-Rimer Kit".  At the right is "With Kemtron X-262 Kit" and "With PFM Industrial Kit".  The Kemtron are the familiar painted ones.  The PFM unpainted.  Price list says "Kemtron X-261 or X-262 ... 3.95" and "PFM Old-timer or Industrial ... 7.95".
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    9th edition PFM catalog:  Our old friend the Tenshodo 0-6-0 is gone.  And so are the detail kits.
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    More vintage trivia:
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    PFM started out distributing for various manufacturers, especially Kemtron.  PFM's second ad ever in Model Railroader was in the Jan 54 issue and is titled "Kemtron Kits".  It lists what Kemtron had.
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    Still more trivia:
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    PFM's first ever ad in Model railroader was one month earlier and was a very small ad showing only sets of slides for the Gorre & Daphetid railroad.  You can see both of these ads at the www.gdlines.com site in the "Book and Advertising Gallery" under "PFM".
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    PFM's first edition catalog was a loose leaf binder.  So people that have them don't all have the same things since individual sheets were mailed out from time to time.  (The 2nd edition was the the first printed one.)  The loose leaf catalog was pretty much all Kemtron at first.  And after, Kemtron pages still dominated it where there might be one page for Binkley and one page for Central valley and such.
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    So the relationship between PFM and Kemtron (explaining the genesis of the conversion kits) and PFM and John Allen and his Gorre & Dapheted (explaining the genesis of his photos in later PFM ads and catalogs starting several years later) goes way back.
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    The Kemtron/PFM detail kit history seen in the catalog does pose some questions.  Why did Kemtron disappear and reappearr in the catalogs?  Why did PFM make their own kits and stop offering Kemtron.  How did PFM assume the titles of "Old Timer" and "Industrial" for their kits.  Was there some falling out and then a reconciliation?  Or was everything was normal and amicable along the way and there is no intrigue?
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    Chuck Kinzer
                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2006 7:32 AM
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Question on a Vintage Diecast Steam Tank Loco Shell

                                                                                                    Also, Kemtron conversion kits to add a trailing truck to a samll
                                                                                                    switcher line the Mantua and PFM offerings.  The sales pitch was to
                                                                                                    improve electrical pick-up.  I no longer have my old Kemtron catalog
                                                                                                    to check.

                                                                                                    Garry Spear

                                                                                                    On 4/30/06, Ray Hobin <tcol01@...> wrote:
                                                                                                    > >----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    > >From: Garry Spear <garrettspear@...>
                                                                                                    > >To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                    > >Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 11:42 PM
                                                                                                    > >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Question on a Vintage Diecast Steam Tank Loco Shell
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    > >> Jim,
                                                                                                    > >>
                                                                                                    > >> The one on the left is the same same casting as shown in some early
                                                                                                    > >> PFM catalogs.  However, I've seen the same casting (or look alike) in
                                                                                                    > >> other ads.  NEW ONE and INTERNATIONAL are two ads I seem to remember.
                                                                                                    > >>
                                                                                                    > >> My thought is the casting (and loco) was an inexpensive early Japanese
                                                                                                    > >loco.
                                                                                                    > >>
                                                                                                    > >> Garry Spear
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    > >I recall that engine, I was looking for a catalog picture but couldn't find
                                                                                                    > >one since that same engine came to mind when I saw the picture.  As I
                                                                                                    > >recall, it was actually a 6 coupled engine (may have even been a 2-6-2-t),
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Sure looks like a variation of the Baldwin 0-6-0T switcher which appeared
                                                                                                    > on page 3 of my PFM 7th Edition catalog.  Special kits were available to
                                                                                                    > convert it to a 2-6-2T including an "oldie" with balloon stack.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Ray Hobin
                                                                                                    >   NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX
                                                                                                    >   Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1455 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 4/30/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Question on a Vintage Diecast Steam Tank Loco Shell
                                                                                                    (To answer my own post)
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    I didn't wee the thinly printed dates on the Kemtron 4th edition catalog until I was more awake.  It is dated 1957/1958 which puts it in the time frame fairly early in the game.
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    PFM 3rd edition: 1957
                                                                                                    PFM 4th edition: 1958
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    Chuck Kinzer
                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2006 11:32 AM
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Question on a Vintage Diecast Steam Tank Loco Shell

                                                                                                    Regarding Kemtron conversion kits for the PFM 0-6-0 (and PFM):
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    It started out with two conversion kits, then there were three (from the 4th edition Kemtron catalog).  I don't know the date of the catalog.  I've got more Kemtron catalogs around somewhere, but not handy.  Perhaps the third kit came after PFM stopped selling the Tenshodo 0-6-0, but that would seem unlikely.  At any rate, nowhere does PFM ever offer the third kit.
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    X-261 "Old Timer Conversion".  "It includes two head lamps, one air pump, bell, whistle, steamgerator, oil tank hatch, and wood beam pilot".  [It does not have a stack and just leaves the Tenshodo straight capped style stack.  The air pump is a single stage.  The head lights are arc lamps.  Example is lettered "Elk Lumber Co."]
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    X-262 "Modern Industrial Conversion"  "The 'Industrial' conversions are becoming more popular every day.  They have the crisp modern look yet are still good old steam power.  This set of parts include, two of our plastic industrial pilots, smoke stack, air pump, bell, whistle, head light, steam generator and a roof mounting spot light..."  [Stack is straight and not capped.  The air pump is two stage.  The head lights are modern with visors.  Example is lettered "Howe Cement Co.]
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    X2263 "Deluxe Conversion" also described as the "Woods Engine".  "The 'Woods Engine' a deluxe kit for the most critical craftsman.  Twenty four castings, lead truck, hand rail posts, marker lamp jewels, grap irons, complete valve gear kit and the most highly detailed set of cylinders in the history of HO."    [Stack is balloon and a plain turning.  Air pump is single stage.  Head lights are modern with no visors.  Cylinders are piston valve type replacing the D valve type.]
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    Conversion kit history in PFM catalogs:
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    1st edition PRM catalog:  This is the original looseleaf one.  I haven't seen the 0-6-0 in one of these.  But that doesn't mean there wasn't a sheet for them.  However, one that I have is pretty full of the other Tenshodo engines and this one isn't there.
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    2nd edition PFM catalog:  The first two kits above show up.  The stock Tenshodo kit is shown on a page and a whole facing page is dedicated to the two Kemtron kits.  Photos of complete engines are shown that are the same photos as in the Kemtron 4th edition catalog.  And the photos are shown as large as the stock kit photo.  the price list mentions "Kemtron Coversion kits, either type ... 3.95."
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    3rd edition PFM catalog:  The kits aren't mentioned in either the catalog or price list.  Only a photo of the stock engine is shown.  However, the stock photo is of an engine with a few detail parts added (not head light or stack, though).  The description includes:  "...does not contain generator, pump nor bell.  A special Kemtron sheet packed with each kit shows deatiling parts especially assembled by Kemtron for this model."  This is probably not "kits" but just parts at this time.
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    4th edition PFM catalog:  Two small photos of the same painted and finished kits are shown.  But the photos aren't quite the same.  They are taken a little more straight from the side with better lighting and also from a slightly lower angle.  (More All it says about Kemtron kits is "Photos at left of converesions using two of the available Kemtron kits."
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    5th edition PFM catalog:  Same as above.
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    6th edition PFM catalog:  Shows two small photos of unpainted converted engines.  Text mentions "Photos at left are of conversions from two available parts kits offed by PFM, using Cal-Sclae and imported parts.  A special version of the 0-6-0 kit is available with all holes drilled and the detainling may be attached with pliers, tweezers, and cement..."  The versions are pretty close to the "Old Timer" and "Industrial" but the detail parts are clearly not the same.  Also, the "Old Timer" now has a balloon stack but it isn't a simple turning like on the Kemtron "Deluxe Conversion" but is a casting with rivet detail.  Also, both kits have now have lead trucks.  Also, the photos are actually to the right, not left, of the text.  Price list says "Special drilled kit for alteration (Available Feb., 1961) ... 9.95" and "Parts Kit to Convert to Industrial or Old Timer, illustrated ... 7.95."
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    7th edition PFM catalog:  Shows stock and two additional photos with three equal size photographs.  Has more verbage about the what is called "Special Kits" now.  Price list says same as above.
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    8th edition PFM catalog:  Just when you thought the name Kemtron had been phased out, the Kemtron kits AND the PFM kits are BOTH shown.  Four little photos flank the larger stock photo.  At the left is "With Kemtron X-261 Kit" and "With PFM Old-Rimer Kit".  At the right is "With Kemtron X-262 Kit" and "With PFM Industrial Kit".  The Kemtron are the familiar painted ones.  The PFM unpainted.  Price list says "Kemtron X-261 or X-262 ... 3.95" and "PFM Old-timer or Industrial ... 7.95".
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    9th edition PFM catalog:  Our old friend the Tenshodo 0-6-0 is gone.  And so are the detail kits.
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    More vintage trivia:
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    PFM started out distributing for various manufacturers, especially Kemtron.  PFM's second ad ever in Model Railroader was in the Jan 54 issue and is titled "Kemtron Kits".  It lists what Kemtron had.
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    Still more trivia:
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    PFM's first ever ad in Model railroader was one month earlier and was a very small ad showing only sets of slides for the Gorre & Daphetid railroad.  You can see both of these ads at the www.gdlines.com site in the "Book and Advertising Gallery" under "PFM".
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    PFM's first edition catalog was a loose leaf binder.  So people that have them don't all have the same things since individual sheets were mailed out from time to time.  (The 2nd edition was the the first printed one.)  The loose leaf catalog was pretty much all Kemtron at first.  And after, Kemtron pages still dominated it where there might be one page for Binkley and one page for Central valley and such.
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    So the relationship between PFM and Kemtron (explaining the genesis of the conversion kits) and PFM and John Allen and his Gorre & Dapheted (explaining the genesis of his photos in later PFM ads and catalogs starting several years later) goes way back.
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    The Kemtron/PFM detail kit history seen in the catalog does pose some questions.  Why did Kemtron disappear and reappearr in the catalogs?  Why did PFM make their own kits and stop offering Kemtron.  How did PFM assume the titles of "Old Timer" and "Industrial" for their kits.  Was there some falling out and then a reconciliation?  Or was everything was normal and amicable along the way and there is no intrigue?
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    Chuck Kinzer
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1456 From: AL Date: 4/30/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Digest Number 325
                                                                                                    >I'm repowering several of my older Athearns with can motors. The
                                                                                                    problem I'm having is locating a 2mm to 1/8 inch bushing so I can use
                                                                                                    the stock flywheels. I've repowered one unit with some A-line flywheels
                                                                                                    that had 2mm holes, but I'd like to use the stock flywheels to keep
                                                                                                    costs down. Does anyone know of a bushing that converts 2mm to 1/8? I
                                                                                                    didn't see this size listed in the NWSL list.
                                                                                                    thanks,
                                                                                                    Phil
                                                                                                    >Baltimore

                                                                                                    Phil,

                                                                                                    1/8" is aprox 3 mm, so maybe you'll have better luck looking for an all
                                                                                                    metric solution ?

                                                                                                    it would actually be a very simple part to make on the lathe, not sure I
                                                                                                    have time ( or brass stock , does it need to be brass ? ), but if no luck
                                                                                                    drop me a line and I can see about whipping a few out next time I have one
                                                                                                    of my machines fired up .

                                                                                                    ~ AL

                                                                                                    ps: as for the off-topic posts, my 2 cents - not a huge bother as long as
                                                                                                    they don;t run on and on, and the comments re, for example 100% scale
                                                                                                    railroaidng, or the currect state of Athearn kits, etc is semi-relevant, so
                                                                                                    let em go .




                                                                                                    ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                    ________________________________________________________________________

                                                                                                    Message 6
                                                                                                    From: "Don Dellmann" don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                    Date: Sun Apr 30, 2006 3:15am(PDT)
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Only my opinon


                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    From: kilbeggan68 <wedfrentz@...>
                                                                                                    To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                    Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 5:03 PM
                                                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] Only my opinon


                                                                                                    > The latest posts seem to be off topic.

                                                                                                    They are, I agree. However, I don't like to be too "heavy handed", as long
                                                                                                    as they don't start a long thread I've been tending to let them through.

                                                                                                    I would like other member's opinions though. Even though I'm the group
                                                                                                    "owner", this IS "Your group" (all the members).

                                                                                                    Don

                                                                                                    don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                    http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                    moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                    moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                    moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                    co-moderator: SCENERY@...
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                                                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO



                                                                                                    ________________________________________________________________________
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                                                                                                    Message 7
                                                                                                    From: "Don Dellmann" don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                    Date: Sun Apr 30, 2006 3:18am(PDT)
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Question on a Vintage Diecast Steam Tank Loco Shell


                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    From: Garry Spear <garrettspear@...>
                                                                                                    To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                    Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 11:42 PM
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Question on a Vintage Diecast Steam Tank Loco Shell


                                                                                                    > Jim,
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > The one on the left is the same same casting as shown in some early
                                                                                                    > PFM catalogs. However, I've seen the same casting (or look alike) in
                                                                                                    > other ads. NEW ONE and INTERNATIONAL are two ads I seem to remember.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > My thought is the casting (and loco) was an inexpensive early Japanese
                                                                                                    loco.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Garry Spear

                                                                                                    I recall that engine, I was looking for a catalog picture but couldn't find
                                                                                                    one since that same engine came to mind when I saw the picture. As I
                                                                                                    recall, it was actually a 6 coupled engine (may have even been a 2-6-2-t),
                                                                                                    and I DO remember it being advertised as made by Tenshodo.

                                                                                                    Don

                                                                                                    don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                    http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                    moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                    moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                    moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                    co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO



                                                                                                    ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                    ________________________________________________________________________

                                                                                                    Message 8
                                                                                                    From: "Ray Hobin" tcol01@...
                                                                                                    Date: Sun Apr 30, 2006 5:35am(PDT)
                                                                                                    Subject: Question on a Vintage Diecast Steam Tank Loco Shell

                                                                                                    >----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    >From: Garry Spear <garrettspear@...>
                                                                                                    >To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                    >Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 11:42 PM
                                                                                                    >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Question on a Vintage Diecast Steam Tank Loco
                                                                                                    Shell
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >> Jim,
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >> The one on the left is the same same casting as shown in some early
                                                                                                    >> PFM catalogs. However, I've seen the same casting (or look alike) in
                                                                                                    >> other ads. NEW ONE and INTERNATIONAL are two ads I seem to remember.
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >> My thought is the casting (and loco) was an inexpensive early Japanese
                                                                                                    >loco.
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >> Garry Spear
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >I recall that engine, I was looking for a catalog picture but couldn't find
                                                                                                    >one since that same engine came to mind when I saw the picture. As I
                                                                                                    >recall, it was actually a 6 coupled engine (may have even been a 2-6-2-t),


                                                                                                    Sure looks like a variation of the Baldwin 0-6-0T switcher which appeared
                                                                                                    on page 3 of my PFM 7th Edition catalog. Special kits were available to
                                                                                                    convert it to a 2-6-2T including an "oldie" with balloon stack.

                                                                                                    Ray Hobin
                                                                                                    NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX
                                                                                                    Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]


                                                                                                    ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                    ________________________________________________________________________

                                                                                                    Message 9
                                                                                                    From: "kilbeggan68" wedfrentz@...
                                                                                                    Date: Sun Apr 30, 2006 6:44am(PDT)
                                                                                                    Subject: Repower for Athern

                                                                                                    You might check ksmetals.com for brass tubing sizes that may
                                                                                                    "make up the difference".This tube has telescoping sizes that can be
                                                                                                    combined to make bushings and bearings etc.I use Loctite blue to
                                                                                                    assemble.Just an idea.Check it out.






                                                                                                    ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                    ________________________________________________________________________

                                                                                                    Message 10
                                                                                                    From: "Jerry Garteiser" jerryg@...
                                                                                                    Date: Sun Apr 30, 2006 6:45am(PDT)
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Only my opinon

                                                                                                    Don-agree with your philosophy. One or two "comments" is interesting for a
                                                                                                    change-up, but if the thread starts to get long (and sometimes hostile),
                                                                                                    then it's your call to edit. Sometimes there is some interesting stuff we
                                                                                                    won't get elsewhere (ie the links we have a choice of following when
                                                                                                    posted), but the real thrust of the group is vintage H.O. Jerry Garteiser



                                                                                                    _____

                                                                                                    From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                                                                                    Of Don Dellmann
                                                                                                    Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2006 3:13 AM
                                                                                                    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Only my opinon




                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    From: kilbeggan68 <wedfrentz@...>
                                                                                                    To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                    Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 5:03 PM
                                                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] Only my opinon


                                                                                                    > The latest posts seem to be off topic.

                                                                                                    They are, I agree. However, I don't like to be too "heavy handed", as long
                                                                                                    as they don't start a long thread I've been tending to let them through.

                                                                                                    I would like other member's opinions though. Even though I'm the group
                                                                                                    "owner", this IS "Your group" (all the members).

                                                                                                    Don

                                                                                                    don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                    http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                    moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                    moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                    moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                    co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO




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                                                                                                    Message 11
                                                                                                    From: "Jack Priller" westpac67@...
                                                                                                    Date: Sun Apr 30, 2006 7:00am(PDT)
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Only my opinon

                                                                                                    As a moderator, I had thought of stopping that thread, but
                                                                                                    figured' "Hey, it's Don's list...". But I also like Jerry's idea: If
                                                                                                    it is somewhat off-topic, post a link with a brief synopsis for
                                                                                                    those who might be interested.

                                                                                                    Jack "Ye Olde Trolleynut" Priller

                                                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Garteiser" <jerryg@...>
                                                                                                    wrote:
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Don-agree with your philosophy. One or two "comments" is
                                                                                                    interesting for a
                                                                                                    > change-up, but if the thread starts to get long (and sometimes
                                                                                                    hostile),
                                                                                                    > then it's your call to edit. Sometimes there is some interesting
                                                                                                    stuff we
                                                                                                    > won't get elsewhere (ie the links we have a choice of following
                                                                                                    when
                                                                                                    > posted), but the real thrust of the group is vintage H.O. Jerry
                                                                                                    Garteiser
                                                                                                    >

                                                                                                    > > The latest posts seem to be off topic.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > They are, I agree. However, I don't like to be too "heavy
                                                                                                    handed", as long
                                                                                                    > as they don't start a long thread I've been tending to let them
                                                                                                    through.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > I would like other member's opinions though. Even though I'm the
                                                                                                    group
                                                                                                    > "owner", this IS "Your group" (all the members).
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Don







                                                                                                    ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                    ________________________________________________________________________

                                                                                                    Message 12
                                                                                                    From: "Garry Spear" garrettspear@...
                                                                                                    Date: Sun Apr 30, 2006 7:32am(PDT)
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Question on a Vintage Diecast Steam Tank Loco Shell

                                                                                                    Also, Kemtron conversion kits to add a trailing truck to a samll
                                                                                                    switcher line the Mantua and PFM offerings. The sales pitch was to
                                                                                                    improve electrical pick-up. I no longer have my old Kemtron catalog
                                                                                                    to check.

                                                                                                    Garry Spear

                                                                                                    On 4/30/06, Ray Hobin <tcol01@...> wrote:
                                                                                                    > >----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    > >From: Garry Spear <garrettspear@...>
                                                                                                    > >To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                    > >Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 11:42 PM
                                                                                                    > >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Question on a Vintage Diecast Steam Tank Loco
                                                                                                    Shell
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    > >> Jim,
                                                                                                    > >>
                                                                                                    > >> The one on the left is the same same casting as shown in some early
                                                                                                    > >> PFM catalogs. However, I've seen the same casting (or look alike) in
                                                                                                    > >> other ads. NEW ONE and INTERNATIONAL are two ads I seem to remember.
                                                                                                    > >>
                                                                                                    > >> My thought is the casting (and loco) was an inexpensive early Japanese
                                                                                                    > >loco.
                                                                                                    > >>
                                                                                                    > >> Garry Spear
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    > >I recall that engine, I was looking for a catalog picture but couldn't
                                                                                                    find
                                                                                                    > >one since that same engine came to mind when I saw the picture. As I
                                                                                                    > >recall, it was actually a 6 coupled engine (may have even been a
                                                                                                    2-6-2-t),
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Sure looks like a variation of the Baldwin 0-6-0T switcher which appeared
                                                                                                    > on page 3 of my PFM 7th Edition catalog. Special kits were available to
                                                                                                    > convert it to a 2-6-2T including an "oldie" with balloon stack.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Ray Hobin
                                                                                                    > NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX
                                                                                                    > Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >


                                                                                                    ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                    ________________________________________________________________________



                                                                                                    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                    Yahoo! Groups Links




                                                                                                    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1457 From: James Bartelt Date: 4/30/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Question on a Vintage Diecast Steam Tank Loco Shell
                                                                                                    Thanks for all the replies in regards to these 2 loco shells. In case anybody is interested in them I have put them up on ebay as item number 6055002234.
                                                                                                    James Bartelt
                                                                                                    jimbartelt@...
                                                                                                    
                                                                                                    Jim’s Railroad & Great Lakes Photo’s
                                                                                                    http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumList?u=1751079
                                                                                                    
                                                                                                    METRO RR Club
                                                                                                    http://www.metrorrclub.org
                                                                                                    
                                                                                                    METRO RR CLUB SPRING SHOW 2006
                                                                                                    http://members.trainorders.com/scrimjimmy/spring.html
                                                                                                    
                                                                                                    
                                                                                                    




                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1458 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 4/30/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Question on a Vintage Diecast Steam Tank Loco Shell

                                                                                                    I have a Mantua 0-4-0T from the late 50’s that I added the Kemtron four wheel trailing truck to.  I believe I paid about $9.95 for the engine, and $2.00 for the trailing truck, and broke several drill bits to get a headlight into the front of it.  Little bugger still runs good (only replacement after 50+ years is the two drivers).  Jerry G.

                                                                                                     


                                                                                                    From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Garry Spear
                                                                                                    Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2006 9:32 AM
                                                                                                    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Question on a Vintage Diecast Steam Tank Loco Shell

                                                                                                     

                                                                                                    Also, Kemtron conversion kits to add a trailing truck to a samll
                                                                                                    switcher line the Mantua and PFM offerings.  The sales pitch was to
                                                                                                    improve electrical pick-up.  I no longer have my old Kemtron catalog
                                                                                                    to check.

                                                                                                    Garry Spear

                                                                                                    On 4/30/06, Ray Hobin <tcol01@...> wrote:
                                                                                                    > >----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    > >From: Garry Spear <garrettspear@...>
                                                                                                    > >To: < vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >
                                                                                                    > >Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 11:42 PM
                                                                                                    > >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Question on a Vintage Diecast Steam Tank Loco Shell
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    > >> Jim,
                                                                                                    > >>
                                                                                                    > >> The one on the left is the same same casting as shown in some early
                                                                                                    > >> PFM catalogs.  However, I've seen the same casting (or look alike) in
                                                                                                    > >> other ads.  NEW ONE and INTERNATIONAL are two ads I seem to remember.
                                                                                                    > >>
                                                                                                    > >> My thought is the casting (and loco) was an inexpensive early Japanese
                                                                                                    > >loco.
                                                                                                    > >>
                                                                                                    > >> Garry Spear
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    > >I recall that engine, I was looking for a catalog picture but couldn't find
                                                                                                    > >one since that same engine came to mind when I saw the picture.  As I
                                                                                                    > >recall, it was actually a 6 coupled engine (may have even been a 2-6-2-t),
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Sure looks like a variation of the Baldwin 0-6-0T switcher which appeared
                                                                                                    > on page 3 of my PFM 7th Edition catalog.  Special kits were available to
                                                                                                    > convert it to a 2-6-2T including an "oldie" with balloon stack.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Ray Hobin
                                                                                                    >   NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX
                                                                                                    >   Durham , NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >

                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1459 From: Glenn Date: 4/30/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Repower for Athearn
                                                                                                    you may have to do it in two steps--put the 2mm to 3/32" bushing on,, then add a piece of 1/8" tubing.That might allow a longer support surface for the flywheel.  I like NWSL's "Athearn Repower Kits" what have the flywheel on a 20x32mm motor, and I think now also include u-joints.   I also use that package to repower older brass that has the Japanese equivalent of a Pittman DC-70 motor--just mount the motor to a piece of K&S 1/16" x 1/2" brass, then drill and tap that for the motor screw(s).  Almost a drop-in fit. gj
                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 6:38 PM
                                                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] Repower for Athearn

                                                                                                    I'm repowering several of my older Athearns with can motors.  The
                                                                                                    problem I'm having is locating a 2mm to 1/8 inch bushing so I can use
                                                                                                    the stock flywheels.  I've repowered one unit with some A-line flywheels
                                                                                                    that had 2mm holes, but I'd like to use the stock flywheels to keep
                                                                                                    costs down.  Does anyone know of a bushing that converts 2mm to 1/8?  I
                                                                                                    didn't see this size listed in the NWSL list.

                                                                                                    thanks,

                                                                                                    Phil
                                                                                                    Baltimore


                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1460 From: Robert K Nielsen Date: 4/30/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Repower for Athearn
                                                                                                    Greetings,
                                                                                                    I've done such a conversion using a Mashima motor and an Athearn flywheel
                                                                                                    on an SW7. I used wire insulation from either 12 or 14 awg house wire.
                                                                                                    It seems to have worked so far going on 12 or so years. (I haven't run
                                                                                                    the unit for about 3 years). I used A-Line flywheels when remotoring my
                                                                                                    Athearn units using either A-Line or Micro-Mark motors. Good luck.
                                                                                                    Rob, KC7WVN
                                                                                                    Cobalt Creek and Western
                                                                                                    RK Industries

                                                                                                    On Sat, 29 Apr 2006 21:38:21 -0400 Phil VanderHeyden
                                                                                                    <pvande1@...> writes:
                                                                                                    > I'm repowering several of my older Athearns with can motors. The
                                                                                                    > problem I'm having is locating a 2mm to 1/8 inch bushing so I can
                                                                                                    > use
                                                                                                    > the stock flywheels. I've repowered one unit with some A-line
                                                                                                    > flywheels
                                                                                                    > that had 2mm holes, but I'd like to use the stock flywheels to keep
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > costs down. Does anyone know of a bushing that converts 2mm to 1/8?
                                                                                                    > I
                                                                                                    > didn't see this size listed in the NWSL list.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > thanks,
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Phil
                                                                                                    > Baltimore
                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1461 From: Glenn Date: 4/30/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Repower for Athearn
                                                                                                    from experience Athearn's die-cast flywheels aren't that true-running--another reason to go with a motor & flywheel package.
                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2006 5:29 PM
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Repower for Athearn

                                                                                                    Greetings,
                                                                                                    I've done such a conversion using a Mashima motor and an Athearn flywheel
                                                                                                    on an SW7.  I used wire insulation from either 12 or 14 awg house wire.
                                                                                                    It seems to have worked so far going on 12 or so years.  (I haven't run
                                                                                                    the unit for about 3 years).  I used A-Line flywheels when remotoring my
                                                                                                    Athearn units using either A-Line or Micro-Mark motors.  Good luck.
                                                                                                    Rob, KC7WVN
                                                                                                    Cobalt Creek and Western
                                                                                                    RK Industries

                                                                                                    On Sat, 29 Apr 2006 21:38:21 -0400 Phil VanderHeyden
                                                                                                    <pvande1@...> writes:
                                                                                                    > I'm repowering several of my older Athearns with can motors.  The
                                                                                                    > problem I'm having is locating a 2mm to 1/8 inch bushing so I can
                                                                                                    > use
                                                                                                    > the stock flywheels.  I've repowered one unit with some A-line
                                                                                                    > flywheels
                                                                                                    > that had 2mm holes, but I'd like to use the stock flywheels to keep
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > costs down.  Does anyone know of a bushing that converts 2mm to 1/8?
                                                                                                    >  I
                                                                                                    > didn't see this size listed in the NWSL list.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > thanks,
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Phil
                                                                                                    > Baltimore
                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1462 From: Phil VanderHeyden Date: 4/30/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Repower for Athearn
                                                                                                    I'll have to try something like that.  The od for 3/32 bushing is 0.09375.  the od for 1/8" tubing is .0125.  The difference between these is 0.03125.  Half of that should be the ideal tube wall thickness to make this work or 0.015625.  I think the K&S tubing has a wall of 0.014.  So that should fit with enough clearance that some locktite should hold it.  (the Aline flywheels are loose fit like this for ease of assembly. A bit of blue automotive thread sealant held them on tight). 

                                                                                                    Does that sound right?  Although I'll keep looking for a single bushing from 2mm to 1/8. 

                                                                                                    thanks,

                                                                                                    Phil
                                                                                                    Baltimore

                                                                                                    Glenn wrote:
                                                                                                    you may have to do it in two steps--put the 2mm to 3/32" bushing on,, then add a piece of 1/8" tubing.That might allow a longer support surface for the flywheel.  I like NWSL's "Athearn Repower Kits" what have the flywheel on a 20x32mm motor, and I think now also include u-joints.   I also use that package to repower older brass that has the Japanese equivalent of a Pittman DC-70 motor--just mount the motor to a piece of K&S 1/16" x 1/2" brass, then drill and tap that for the motor screw(s).  Almost a drop-in fit. gj
                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 6:38 PM
                                                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] Repower for Athearn

                                                                                                    I'm repowering several of my older Athearns with can motors.  The
                                                                                                    problem I'm having is locating a 2mm to 1/8 inch bushing so I can use
                                                                                                    the stock flywheels.  I've repowered one unit with some A-line flywheels
                                                                                                    that had 2mm holes, but I'd like to use the stock flywheels to keep
                                                                                                    costs down.  Does anyone know of a bushing that converts 2mm to 1/8?  I
                                                                                                    didn't see this size listed in the NWSL list.

                                                                                                    thanks,

                                                                                                    Phil
                                                                                                    Baltimore




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                                                                                                    This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
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                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1463 From: Glenn Date: 4/30/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Repower for Athearn
                                                                                                    Sounds good--NWSL may have the direct bushing--
                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2006 7:25 PM
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Repower for Athearn

                                                                                                    I'll have to try something like that.  The od for 3/32 bushing is 0.09375.  the od for 1/8" tubing is .0125.  The difference between these is 0.03125.  Half of that should be the ideal tube wall thickness to make this work or 0.015625.  I think the K&S tubing has a wall of 0.014.  So that should fit with enough clearance that some locktite should hold it.  (the Aline flywheels are loose fit like this for ease of assembly. A bit of blue automotive thread sealant held them on tight). 

                                                                                                    Does that sound right?  Although I'll keep looking for a single bushing from 2mm to 1/8. 

                                                                                                    thanks,

                                                                                                    Phil
                                                                                                    Baltimore

                                                                                                    Glenn wrote:
                                                                                                    you may have to do it in two steps--put the 2mm to 3/32" bushing on,, then add a piece of 1/8" tubing.That might allow a longer support surface for the flywheel.  I like NWSL's "Athearn Repower Kits" what have the flywheel on a 20x32mm motor, and I think now also include u-joints.   I also use that package to repower older brass that has the Japanese equivalent of a Pittman DC-70 motor--just mount the motor to a piece of K&S 1/16" x 1/2" brass, then drill and tap that for the motor screw(s).  Almost a drop-in fit. gj
                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 6:38 PM
                                                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] Repower for Athearn

                                                                                                    I'm repowering several of my older Athearns with can motors.  The
                                                                                                    problem I'm having is locating a 2mm to 1/8 inch bushing so I can use
                                                                                                    the stock flywheels.  I've repowered one unit with some A-line flywheels
                                                                                                    that had 2mm holes, but I'd like to use the stock flywheels to keep
                                                                                                    costs down.  Does anyone know of a bushing that converts 2mm to 1/8?  I
                                                                                                    didn't see this size listed in the NWSL list.

                                                                                                    thanks,

                                                                                                    Phil
                                                                                                    Baltimore




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                                                                                                    This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
                                                                                                    http://www.eset.com

                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1464 From: Glenn Date: 4/30/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Repower for Athearn
                                                                                                    hit send too soon--ID of 1/8" tube is nominally 3/32" sh should be a good fit.   As I mentioned in another post, those Athears die-cast flywheels are not the truest--so it might be worth while to replace them, too.
                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2006 7:25 PM
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Repower for Athearn

                                                                                                    I'll have to try something like that.  The od for 3/32 bushing is 0.09375.  the od for 1/8" tubing is .0125.  The difference between these is 0.03125.  Half of that should be the ideal tube wall thickness to make this work or 0.015625.  I think the K&S tubing has a wall of 0.014.  So that should fit with enough clearance that some locktite should hold it.  (the Aline flywheels are loose fit like this for ease of assembly. A bit of blue automotive thread sealant held them on tight). 

                                                                                                    Does that sound right?  Although I'll keep looking for a single bushing from 2mm to 1/8. 

                                                                                                    thanks,

                                                                                                    Phil
                                                                                                    Baltimore

                                                                                                    Glenn wrote:
                                                                                                    you may have to do it in two steps--put the 2mm to 3/32" bushing on,, then add a piece of 1/8" tubing.That might allow a longer support surface for the flywheel.  I like NWSL's "Athearn Repower Kits" what have the flywheel on a 20x32mm motor, and I think now also include u-joints.   I also use that package to repower older brass that has the Japanese equivalent of a Pittman DC-70 motor--just mount the motor to a piece of K&S 1/16" x 1/2" brass, then drill and tap that for the motor screw(s).  Almost a drop-in fit. gj
                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 6:38 PM
                                                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] Repower for Athearn

                                                                                                    I'm repowering several of my older Athearns with can motors.  The
                                                                                                    problem I'm having is locating a 2mm to 1/8 inch bushing so I can use
                                                                                                    the stock flywheels.  I've repowered one unit with some A-line flywheels
                                                                                                    that had 2mm holes, but I'd like to use the stock flywheels to keep
                                                                                                    costs down.  Does anyone know of a bushing that converts 2mm to 1/8?  I
                                                                                                    didn't see this size listed in the NWSL list.

                                                                                                    thanks,

                                                                                                    Phil
                                                                                                    Baltimore




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                                                                                                    This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
                                                                                                    http://www.eset.com

                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1465 From: Imp Ster Date: 5/1/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: additional webcam hint - no need to add contact
                                                                                                    greets all -

                                                                                                    more info on viewing Yahoo IM-webcams...
                                                                                                    i have discovered that one does not need to add the camera sender's ID
                                                                                                    to one's own contact list, but can instead simply clik on the IM icon
                                                                                                    seen next to the desired Yahoo ID, which if you already have the
                                                                                                    Messenger running, opens up a temporary IM frame, and then one can
                                                                                                    initiate the webcam call from that.

                                                                                                    unfortunately the webcam at the station was only a temp, the girl took
                                                                                                    it home over the weekend and left me nada.
                                                                                                    so dont go to any trouble this week.
                                                                                                    however as soon as circumstances permit (that being a payday or 2),
                                                                                                    i'll get a somewhat decent cam just for the station.

                                                                                                    cheers

                                                                                                    ...
                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1466 From: Randy Date: 5/2/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Repower for Athearn
                                                                                                    Phil

                                                                                                    A-line makes a brass sleeve that I have used (Walthers part number)
                                                                                                    116-12053 - 2mm inside diameter, 2.4mm (3/32") outside diameter. This
                                                                                                    is what I haved used to mount athearn flywheels on a 2mm shaft

                                                                                                    Randy
                                                                                                    SLC UT

                                                                                                    > I'm repowering several of my older Athearns with can motors. The
                                                                                                    > problem I'm having is locating a 2mm to 1/8 inch bushing so I can
                                                                                                    > use the stock flywheels. I've repowered one unit with some A-line
                                                                                                    > flywheels that had 2mm holes, but I'd like to use the stock
                                                                                                    > flywheels to keep costs down. Does anyone know of a bushing that
                                                                                                    > converts 2mm to 1/8? I didn't see this size listed in the NWSL list.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > thanks,
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Phil
                                                                                                    > Baltimore
                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1467 From: Jack Priller Date: 5/3/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Passenger car help Thank you
                                                                                                    Many thanks to Glenn Joesten for photo-copying the relevant page
                                                                                                    from a V&T Shops instruction set and mailing same to me. Doesn't
                                                                                                    have all the information, but enough more than the magazine article
                                                                                                    so that between the two I can now go into this with some confidence
                                                                                                    in the results. Again, thank you, Glenn.

                                                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Priller" <westpac67@...>
                                                                                                    wrote:
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Fred Hultberg <fhultberg@>
                                                                                                    > wrote:
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    > > I had that - I was just turning 14 and it was a great challenge.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > I'm 62 and it is still a great challenge.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > > As I remember, the trick is, after the folding, get it nearly
                                                                                                    > > flat again and reverse one of the legs of the "zee" and then,
                                                                                                    > > holding both ends, carefully pinch the whole thing together,
                                                                                                    > keeping the legs parallel.
                                                                                                    > -----------------------
                                                                                                    > If I understand that correctly, I first do the Zee fold, then
                                                                                                    > the 'fan fold', get it more or less flat but still in zee shape
                                                                                                    (?),
                                                                                                    > reverse one leg and then re-do the fan-fold? I'll give it a try
                                                                                                    and
                                                                                                    > if I have my "usual luck" will try again AFTER I get the
                                                                                                    additional
                                                                                                    > data from Glenn. :>))
                                                                                                    > -------------------------
                                                                                                    > > I wish I had had the smarts to dye the paper first...I used
                                                                                                    yellow
                                                                                                    > > squared paper and tried painting it. Disastrous, as the only
                                                                                                    paint
                                                                                                    > > I had(Roundhouse Coach Green) stiffened the diaphragms beyond
                                                                                                    use,
                                                                                                    > > although I kept trying wit the now-expected derailments.
                                                                                                    > -----------------------
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Somewhere around here I have some soft grey paper left over from
                                                                                                    the
                                                                                                    > last time I printed out some resumes; should look OK with some
                                                                                                    > yellow over grey passenger cars. (Red lettering for the "Onion
                                                                                                    > Pacific.")
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > > Applied them to the then-new Athearn standard coaches and a
                                                                                                    > > Pennline baggage car. About the same time, I discovered Kadee
                                                                                                    > > couplers, too! Expensive($1.20 for two pair) on 25 cents a week
                                                                                                    > > allowance...
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    > > Ah, my "good ol' days."
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    > > Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut)
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    > > "Charles E. Kinzer" <ckinzer@> wrote:
                                                                                                    > > I remember seeing those. I did some poking around at
                                                                                                    > http://www.index.mrmag.com/ and had no luck although there were a
                                                                                                    > couple of 1937 articles mentioned that might describe the
                                                                                                    technique.
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    > > I noticed at http://experts.about.com/q/Model-Railroads-
                                                                                                    > 2372/scratch-building-diaphragms.htm
                                                                                                    > > somebody else searching for the same thing saying:
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    > > "Years ago, maybe the early 70's or late 60's I had, or read
                                                                                                    an
                                                                                                    > article, maybe in model rr magazine, on how to fold your own
                                                                                                    > passenger car diaphragms from paper . I haven't been able to
                                                                                                    locate
                                                                                                    > this info on line."
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    > > I don't have all issues from that period but I had a few so it
                                                                                                    > didn't take me long to see if I would get lucky. I did.
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    > > It is the August, 1960 Model Railroader article "Building a
                                                                                                    head-
                                                                                                    > end car vrom photos and basic dimensions". It is shown in Figure
                                                                                                    1
                                                                                                    > on page 47 (and this is the diagram I remember seeing). It shows
                                                                                                    > you how to do the folding. It doesn't show how to do the
                                                                                                    unfolding
                                                                                                    > and whatever "origami" is needed to put it in the final form. I
                                                                                                    > can't visualize how you get from the folded item to the final
                                                                                                    item.
                                                                                                    > But perhaps an already folded Walthers diaphragm could be studied
                                                                                                    > and reverse-engineered. The article itself doesn't much
                                                                                                    > beyond "Make up diaphragms of thin paper".
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    > > Chuck Kinzer
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1468 From: Glenn Date: 5/3/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Passenger car help Thank you
                                                                                                    AS i said earlier--I think that if you reduce that to 55% it should be right--but being that these were for narrow gauge cars they might need to be a bit larger. gj
                                                                                                    ----- Original Message ----- gj
                                                                                                    Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 5:31 PM
                                                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Passenger car help Thank you

                                                                                                      Many thanks to Glenn Joesten for photo-copying the relevant page
                                                                                                    from a V&T Shops instruction set and mailing same to me. Doesn't
                                                                                                    have all the information, but enough more than the magazine article
                                                                                                    so that between the two I can now go into this with some confidence
                                                                                                    in the results. Again, thank you, Glenn.

                                                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Priller" <westpac67@...>
                                                                                                    wrote:
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Fred Hultberg <fhultberg@>
                                                                                                    > wrote:
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    > > I had that - I was just turning 14 and it was a great challenge.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > I'm 62 and it is still a great challenge.
                                                                                                    >    
                                                                                                    > >   As I remember, the trick is, after the folding, get it nearly
                                                                                                    > > flat again and reverse one of the legs of the "zee" and then,
                                                                                                    > > holding both ends, carefully pinch the whole thing together,
                                                                                                    > keeping the legs parallel.
                                                                                                    > -----------------------
                                                                                                    > If I understand that correctly, I first do the Zee fold, then
                                                                                                    > the 'fan fold', get it more or less flat but still in zee shape
                                                                                                    (?),
                                                                                                    > reverse one leg and then re-do the fan-fold? I'll give it a try
                                                                                                    and
                                                                                                    > if I have my "usual luck" will try again AFTER I get the
                                                                                                    additional
                                                                                                    > data from Glenn.  :>))
                                                                                                    > -------------------------
                                                                                                    > > I wish I had had the smarts to dye the paper first...I used
                                                                                                    yellow
                                                                                                    > > squared paper and tried painting it. Disastrous, as the only
                                                                                                    paint
                                                                                                    > > I had(Roundhouse Coach Green) stiffened the diaphragms beyond
                                                                                                    use,
                                                                                                    > > although I kept trying wit the now-expected derailments.
                                                                                                    > -----------------------
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Somewhere around here I have some soft grey paper left over from
                                                                                                    the
                                                                                                    > last time I printed out some resumes; should look OK with some
                                                                                                    > yellow over grey passenger cars. (Red lettering for the "Onion
                                                                                                    > Pacific.")
                                                                                                    >    
                                                                                                    > >   Applied them to the then-new Athearn standard coaches and a
                                                                                                    > > Pennline baggage car. About the same time, I discovered Kadee
                                                                                                    > >  couplers, too! Expensive($1.20 for two pair) on 25 cents a week
                                                                                                    > > allowance...
                                                                                                    > >   
                                                                                                    > >   Ah, my "good ol' days."
                                                                                                    > >   
                                                                                                    > >   Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut)
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    > > "Charles E. Kinzer" <ckinzer@> wrote:
                                                                                                    > >           I remember seeing those.  I did some poking around at
                                                                                                    > http://www.index.mrmag.com/ and had no luck although there were a
                                                                                                    > couple of 1937 articles mentioned that might describe the
                                                                                                    technique.
                                                                                                    > >   
                                                                                                    > >   I noticed at http://experts.about.com/q/Model-Railroads-
                                                                                                    > 2372/scratch-building-diaphragms.htm
                                                                                                    > >   somebody else searching for the same thing saying:
                                                                                                    > >   
                                                                                                    > >   "Years ago, maybe the early 70's or late 60's I had, or read
                                                                                                    an
                                                                                                    > article, maybe in model rr magazine, on how to fold your own
                                                                                                    > passenger car diaphragms from paper . I haven't been able to
                                                                                                    locate
                                                                                                    > this info on line."
                                                                                                    > >   
                                                                                                    > >   I don't have all issues from that period but I had a few so it
                                                                                                    > didn't take me long to see if I would get lucky.  I did.
                                                                                                    > >   
                                                                                                    > >   It is the August, 1960 Model Railroader article "Building a
                                                                                                    head-
                                                                                                    > end car vrom photos and basic dimensions".  It is shown in Figure
                                                                                                    1
                                                                                                    > on page 47 (and this is the diagram I remember seeing).  It shows
                                                                                                    > you how to do the folding.  It doesn't show how to do the
                                                                                                    unfolding
                                                                                                    > and whatever "origami" is needed to put it in the final form.  I
                                                                                                    > can't visualize how you get from the folded item to the final
                                                                                                    item. 
                                                                                                    > But perhaps an already folded Walthers diaphragm could be studied
                                                                                                    > and reverse-engineered.  The article itself doesn't much
                                                                                                    > beyond "Make up diaphragms of thin paper".
                                                                                                    > >   
                                                                                                    > >   Chuck Kinzer
                                                                                                    >





                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1469 From: jack_catcher12 Date: 5/4/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Hello all a new member here. :)
                                                                                                    I knew there had to be a gatherihng of guys that would prefer building
                                                                                                    a musty old Main line kit or Central valley kit then new fangled
                                                                                                    plastic ones :)

                                                                                                    My father gave me a central valley reefer when I was 15 years old and
                                                                                                    from that day on I was hooked. I have a nice stockpile of kitshere
                                                                                                    but I am always looking for more.

                                                                                                    I look forward to talking with all of you

                                                                                                    Jack Winters
                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1470 From: Jack Priller Date: 5/5/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: New Photo and 2 ?'s
                                                                                                    Just added new photo "Name Plates" in Jack's Junque. 2 questions: 1)
                                                                                                    Does anybody know what railroad got cut out and probably used? 2) Has
                                                                                                    anybody got a use for them? Contact me off list; best reason for
                                                                                                    wanting them gets them. I'll buy the stamp. Note that the number next
                                                                                                    to "Southern" is messed up on one card; large white spot on other card
                                                                                                    is just bad photography by yours truly. It is the best of three
                                                                                                    attempts however.

                                                                                                    Jack Priller
                                                                                                    aka
                                                                                                    Ye Olde Trolleynut
                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1471 From: Don Dellmann Date: 5/6/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Hello all a new member here. :)
                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    From: jack_catcher12 <mrjw70@...>
                                                                                                    To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                    Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 12:48 PM
                                                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] Hello all a new member here. :)


                                                                                                    > I knew there had to be a gatherihng of guys that would prefer building
                                                                                                    > a musty old Main line kit or Central valley kit then new fangled
                                                                                                    > plastic ones :)
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > My father gave me a central valley reefer when I was 15 years old and
                                                                                                    > from that day on I was hooked. I have a nice stockpile of kitshere
                                                                                                    > but I am always looking for more.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > I look forward to talking with all of you
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Jack Winters

                                                                                                    You found it!

                                                                                                    In fact there's an unbuilt Mainline stock car in the basement that's going
                                                                                                    to get started as soon as I finish the Suydam Trolley barn!.

                                                                                                    Don

                                                                                                    don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                    http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
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                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1472 From: Phil VanderHeyden Date: 5/8/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Repower for Athearn - pictures of motor with bushings
                                                                                                    The 1/8 in tube method worked fairly well.  Here's a link to 2 pictures of the can motor with the NWSL bushing + 1/8 K&S brass tube

                                                                                                    Here's the motor with 2 Athearn SD40-T2 flywheels.  The 1/8 inch tube is a slip on.  I'll use a little lock tight to secure them, once I wire up the leads.

                                                                                                    http://home.comcast.net/~pvande1/railroad/canmotor1_1024.JPG


                                                                                                    The end of the can motor with the tube on.  These are 3 pole cans. 

                                                                                                    http://home.comcast.net/~pvande1/railroad/canmotor2_1024.JPG

                                                                                                    I've done this twice now, and both time using blue thread seal to secure the 1/8 tubing to the (2mm to 3/32) bushing.  Both times I've also managed to get the thread sealer into the shaft so it locks the shaft in place.  Putting the end into my dremel's chuck and turning the shaft at 5000 rpm seemed to free up the motor nicely.




                                                                                                    Phil VanderHeyden wrote:
                                                                                                    I'll have to try something like that.  The od for 3/32 bushing is 0.09375.  the od for 1/8" tubing is .0125.  The difference between these is 0.03125.  Half of that should be the ideal tube wall thickness to make this work or 0.015625.  I think the K&S tubing has a wall of 0.014.  So that should fit with enough clearance that some locktite should hold it.  (the Aline flywheels are loose fit like this for ease of assembly. A bit of blue automotive thread sealant held them on tight). 

                                                                                                    Does that sound right?  Although I'll keep looking for a single bushing from 2mm to 1/8. 

                                                                                                    thanks,

                                                                                                    Phil
                                                                                                    Baltimore

                                                                                                    Glenn wrote:
                                                                                                    you may have to do it in two steps--put the 2mm to 3/32" bushing on,, then add a piece of 1/8" tubing.That might allow a longer support surface for the flywheel.  I like NWSL's "Athearn Repower Kits" what have the flywheel on a 20x32mm motor, and I think now also include u-joints.   I also use that package to repower older brass that has the Japanese equivalent of a Pittman DC-70 motor--just mount the motor to a piece of K&S 1/16" x 1/2" brass, then drill and tap that for the motor screw(s).  Almost a drop-in fit. gj
                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 6:38 PM
                                                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] Repower for Athearn

                                                                                                    I'm repowering several of my older Athearns with can motors.  The
                                                                                                    problem I'm having is locating a 2mm to 1/8 inch bushing so I can use
                                                                                                    the stock flywheels.  I've repowered one unit with some A-line flywheels
                                                                                                    that had 2mm holes, but I'd like to use the stock flywheels to keep
                                                                                                    costs down.  Does anyone know of a bushing that converts 2mm to 1/8?  I
                                                                                                    didn't see this size listed in the NWSL list.

                                                                                                    thanks,

                                                                                                    Phil
                                                                                                    Baltimore




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                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1473 From: Glenn Date: 5/9/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Passenger car help Thank you
                                                                                                    Jack--fyi--your SSAE arrived today--by the postmarkm fifteen days in transit--no wonder we call it snailmail!
                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 5:31 PM
                                                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Passenger car help Thank you

                                                                                                      Many thanks to Glenn Joesten for photo-copying the relevant page
                                                                                                    from a V&T Shops instruction set and mailing same to me. Doesn't
                                                                                                    have all the information, but enough more than the magazine article
                                                                                                    so that between the two I can now go into this with some confidence
                                                                                                    in the results. Again, thank you, Glenn.

                                                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Priller" <westpac67@...>
                                                                                                    wrote:
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Fred Hultberg <fhultberg@>
                                                                                                    > wrote:
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    > > I had that - I was just turning 14 and it was a great challenge.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > I'm 62 and it is still a great challenge.
                                                                                                    >    
                                                                                                    > >   As I remember, the trick is, after the folding, get it nearly
                                                                                                    > > flat again and reverse one of the legs of the "zee" and then,
                                                                                                    > > holding both ends, carefully pinch the whole thing together,
                                                                                                    > keeping the legs parallel.
                                                                                                    > -----------------------
                                                                                                    > If I understand that correctly, I first do the Zee fold, then
                                                                                                    > the 'fan fold', get it more or less flat but still in zee shape
                                                                                                    (?),
                                                                                                    > reverse one leg and then re-do the fan-fold? I'll give it a try
                                                                                                    and
                                                                                                    > if I have my "usual luck" will try again AFTER I get the
                                                                                                    additional
                                                                                                    > data from Glenn.  :>))
                                                                                                    > -------------------------
                                                                                                    > > I wish I had had the smarts to dye the paper first...I used
                                                                                                    yellow
                                                                                                    > > squared paper and tried painting it. Disastrous, as the only
                                                                                                    paint
                                                                                                    > > I had(Roundhouse Coach Green) stiffened the diaphragms beyond
                                                                                                    use,
                                                                                                    > > although I kept trying wit the now-expected derailments.
                                                                                                    > -----------------------
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Somewhere around here I have some soft grey paper left over from
                                                                                                    the
                                                                                                    > last time I printed out some resumes; should look OK with some
                                                                                                    > yellow over grey passenger cars. (Red lettering for the "Onion
                                                                                                    > Pacific.")
                                                                                                    >    
                                                                                                    > >   Applied them to the then-new Athearn standard coaches and a
                                                                                                    > > Pennline baggage car. About the same time, I discovered Kadee
                                                                                                    > >  couplers, too! Expensive($1.20 for two pair) on 25 cents a week
                                                                                                    > > allowance...
                                                                                                    > >   
                                                                                                    > >   Ah, my "good ol' days."
                                                                                                    > >   
                                                                                                    > >   Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut)
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    > > "Charles E. Kinzer" <ckinzer@> wrote:
                                                                                                    > >           I remember seeing those.  I did some poking around at
                                                                                                    > http://www.index.mrmag.com/ and had no luck although there were a
                                                                                                    > couple of 1937 articles mentioned that might describe the
                                                                                                    technique.
                                                                                                    > >   
                                                                                                    > >   I noticed at http://experts.about.com/q/Model-Railroads-
                                                                                                    > 2372/scratch-building-diaphragms.htm
                                                                                                    > >   somebody else searching for the same thing saying:
                                                                                                    > >   
                                                                                                    > >   "Years ago, maybe the early 70's or late 60's I had, or read
                                                                                                    an
                                                                                                    > article, maybe in model rr magazine, on how to fold your own
                                                                                                    > passenger car diaphragms from paper . I haven't been able to
                                                                                                    locate
                                                                                                    > this info on line."
                                                                                                    > >   
                                                                                                    > >   I don't have all issues from that period but I had a few so it
                                                                                                    > didn't take me long to see if I would get lucky.  I did.
                                                                                                    > >   
                                                                                                    > >   It is the August, 1960 Model Railroader article "Building a
                                                                                                    head-
                                                                                                    > end car vrom photos and basic dimensions".  It is shown in Figure
                                                                                                    1
                                                                                                    > on page 47 (and this is the diagram I remember seeing).  It shows
                                                                                                    > you how to do the folding.  It doesn't show how to do the
                                                                                                    unfolding
                                                                                                    > and whatever "origami" is needed to put it in the final form.  I
                                                                                                    > can't visualize how you get from the folded item to the final
                                                                                                    item. 
                                                                                                    > But perhaps an already folded Walthers diaphragm could be studied
                                                                                                    > and reverse-engineered.  The article itself doesn't much
                                                                                                    > beyond "Make up diaphragms of thin paper".
                                                                                                    > >   
                                                                                                    > >   Chuck Kinzer
                                                                                                    >





                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1474 From: Glenn Date: 5/9/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Repower for Athearn - pictures of motor with bushings
                                                                                                    3-pole motors? hardly worth the effort--you want at least 5 poles, 7 is better. The more poles, the smoother they operate.
                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 9:51 PM
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Repower for Athearn - pictures of motor with bushings

                                                                                                    The 1/8 in tube method worked fairly well.  Here's a link to 2 pictures of the can motor with the NWSL bushing + 1/8 K&S brass tube

                                                                                                    Here's the motor with 2 Athearn SD40-T2 flywheels.  The 1/8 inch tube is a slip on.  I'll use a little lock tight to secure them, once I wire up the leads.

                                                                                                    http://home.comcast.net/~pvande1/railroad/canmotor1_1024.JPG


                                                                                                    The end of the can motor with the tube on.  These are 3 pole cans. 

                                                                                                    http://home.comcast.net/~pvande1/railroad/canmotor2_1024.JPG

                                                                                                    I've done this twice now, and both time using blue thread seal to secure the 1/8 tubing to the (2mm to 3/32) bushing.  Both times I've also managed to get the thread sealer into the shaft so it locks the shaft in place.  Putting the end into my dremel's chuck and turning the shaft at 5000 rpm seemed to free up the motor nicely.




                                                                                                    Phil VanderHeyden wrote:
                                                                                                    I'll have to try something like that.  The od for 3/32 bushing is 0.09375.  the od for 1/8" tubing is .0125.  The difference between these is 0.03125.  Half of that should be the ideal tube wall thickness to make this work or 0.015625.  I think the K&S tubing has a wall of 0.014.  So that should fit with enough clearance that some locktite should hold it.  (the Aline flywheels are loose fit like this for ease of assembly. A bit of blue automotive thread sealant held them on tight). 

                                                                                                    Does that sound right?  Although I'll keep looking for a single bushing from 2mm to 1/8. 

                                                                                                    thanks,

                                                                                                    Phil
                                                                                                    Baltimore

                                                                                                    Glenn wrote:
                                                                                                    you may have to do it in two steps--put the 2mm to 3/32" bushing on,, then add a piece of 1/8" tubing.That might allow a longer support surface for the flywheel.  I like NWSL's "Athearn Repower Kits" what have the flywheel on a 20x32mm motor, and I think now also include u-joints.   I also use that package to repower older brass that has the Japanese equivalent of a Pittman DC-70 motor--just mount the motor to a piece of K&S 1/16" x 1/2" brass, then drill and tap that for the motor screw(s).  Almost a drop-in fit. gj
                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 6:38 PM
                                                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] Repower for Athearn

                                                                                                    I'm repowering several of my older Athearns with can motors.  The
                                                                                                    problem I'm having is locating a 2mm to 1/8 inch bushing so I can use
                                                                                                    the stock flywheels.  I've repowered one unit with some A-line flywheels
                                                                                                    that had 2mm holes, but I'd like to use the stock flywheels to keep
                                                                                                    costs down.  Does anyone know of a bushing that converts 2mm to 1/8?  I
                                                                                                    didn't see this size listed in the NWSL list.

                                                                                                    thanks,

                                                                                                    Phil
                                                                                                    Baltimore




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                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1475 From: Jack Priller Date: 5/9/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Passenger car help Thank you
                                                                                                    If I had sent it Parcel Post, you wouldn't have gotten it till
                                                                                                    Friday, based on what the shipping times for eBay stuff have been!
                                                                                                    And the USPS advertises 3 to 9 days. Yeah, right. But I did get a
                                                                                                    payment to the boondocks of Alaska in 5 days.

                                                                                                    Jack

                                                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Jack--fyi--your SSAE arrived today--by the postmarkm fifteen days
                                                                                                    in transit--no wonder we call it snailmail!
                                                                                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    > From: Jack Priller
                                                                                                    > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                    > Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 5:31 PM
                                                                                                    > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Passenger car help Thank you
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Many thanks to Glenn Joesten for photo-copying the relevant
                                                                                                    page
                                                                                                    > from a V&T Shops instruction set and mailing same to me. Doesn't
                                                                                                    > have all the information, but enough more than the magazine
                                                                                                    article
                                                                                                    > so that between the two I can now go into this with some
                                                                                                    confidence
                                                                                                    > in the results. Again, thank you, Glenn.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Priller" <westpac67@>
                                                                                                    > wrote:
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Fred Hultberg <fhultberg@>
                                                                                                    > > wrote:
                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                    > > > I had that - I was just turning 14 and it was a great
                                                                                                    challenge.
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    > > I'm 62 and it is still a great challenge.
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    > > > As I remember, the trick is, after the folding, get it
                                                                                                    nearly
                                                                                                    > > > flat again and reverse one of the legs of the "zee" and
                                                                                                    then,
                                                                                                    > > > holding both ends, carefully pinch the whole thing together,
                                                                                                    > > keeping the legs parallel.
                                                                                                    > > -----------------------
                                                                                                    > > If I understand that correctly, I first do the Zee fold, then
                                                                                                    > > the 'fan fold', get it more or less flat but still in zee shape
                                                                                                    > (?),
                                                                                                    > > reverse one leg and then re-do the fan-fold? I'll give it a
                                                                                                    try
                                                                                                    > and
                                                                                                    > > if I have my "usual luck" will try again AFTER I get the
                                                                                                    > additional
                                                                                                    > > data from Glenn. :>))
                                                                                                    > > -------------------------
                                                                                                    > > > I wish I had had the smarts to dye the paper first...I used
                                                                                                    > yellow
                                                                                                    > > > squared paper and tried painting it. Disastrous, as the only
                                                                                                    > paint
                                                                                                    > > > I had(Roundhouse Coach Green) stiffened the diaphragms
                                                                                                    beyond
                                                                                                    > use,
                                                                                                    > > > although I kept trying wit the now-expected derailments.
                                                                                                    > > -----------------------
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    > > Somewhere around here I have some soft grey paper left over
                                                                                                    from
                                                                                                    > the
                                                                                                    > > last time I printed out some resumes; should look OK with some
                                                                                                    > > yellow over grey passenger cars. (Red lettering for the "Onion
                                                                                                    > > Pacific.")
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    > > > Applied them to the then-new Athearn standard coaches and
                                                                                                    a
                                                                                                    > > > Pennline baggage car. About the same time, I discovered
                                                                                                    Kadee
                                                                                                    > > > couplers, too! Expensive($1.20 for two pair) on 25 cents a
                                                                                                    week
                                                                                                    > > > allowance...
                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                    > > > Ah, my "good ol' days."
                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                    > > > Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut)
                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                    > > > "Charles E. Kinzer" <ckinzer@> wrote:
                                                                                                    > > > I remember seeing those. I did some poking around
                                                                                                    at
                                                                                                    > > http://www.index.mrmag.com/ and had no luck although there
                                                                                                    were a
                                                                                                    > > couple of 1937 articles mentioned that might describe the
                                                                                                    > technique.
                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                    > > > I noticed at http://experts.about.com/q/Model-Railroads-
                                                                                                    > > 2372/scratch-building-diaphragms.htm
                                                                                                    > > > somebody else searching for the same thing saying:
                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                    > > > "Years ago, maybe the early 70's or late 60's I had, or
                                                                                                    read
                                                                                                    > an
                                                                                                    > > article, maybe in model rr magazine, on how to fold your own
                                                                                                    > > passenger car diaphragms from paper . I haven't been able to
                                                                                                    > locate
                                                                                                    > > this info on line."
                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                    > > > I don't have all issues from that period but I had a few
                                                                                                    so it
                                                                                                    > > didn't take me long to see if I would get lucky. I did.
                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                    > > > It is the August, 1960 Model Railroader article "Building
                                                                                                    a
                                                                                                    > head-
                                                                                                    > > end car vrom photos and basic dimensions". It is shown in
                                                                                                    Figure
                                                                                                    > 1
                                                                                                    > > on page 47 (and this is the diagram I remember seeing). It
                                                                                                    shows
                                                                                                    > > you how to do the folding. It doesn't show how to do the
                                                                                                    > unfolding
                                                                                                    > > and whatever "origami" is needed to put it in the final form.
                                                                                                    I
                                                                                                    > > can't visualize how you get from the folded item to the final
                                                                                                    > item.
                                                                                                    > > But perhaps an already folded Walthers diaphragm could be
                                                                                                    studied
                                                                                                    > > and reverse-engineered. The article itself doesn't much
                                                                                                    > > beyond "Make up diaphragms of thin paper".
                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                    > > > Chuck Kinzer
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > SPONSORED LINKS Ho scale G scale model train G scale train
                                                                                                    > Ho scale model train Ho scale trains
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
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                                                                                                    > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1476 From: Phil VanderHeyden Date: 5/9/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Repower for Athearn - pictures of motor with bushings
                                                                                                    Ok, you find me a 7-pole can motor that big for less than $10.  Actually, I installed one of these in an Athearn PA and it runs as smoothly and slowly as my other one with a helix humper in it.  I'm not sure what the actual specs on this motor are, but I've use these to repower a two of my Hobbytown GPs also.  In spite of the three pole structure, these really crawl. 

                                                                                                    phil

                                                                                                    Glenn wrote:
                                                                                                    3-pole motors? hardly worth the effort--you want at least 5 poles, 7 is better. The more poles, the smoother they operate.
                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 9:51 PM
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Repower for Athearn - pictures of motor with bushings

                                                                                                    The 1/8 in tube method worked fairly well.  Here's a link to 2 pictures of the can motor with the NWSL bushing + 1/8 K&S brass tube

                                                                                                    Here's the motor with 2 Athearn SD40-T2 flywheels.  The 1/8 inch tube is a slip on.  I'll use a little lock tight to secure them, once I wire up the leads.

                                                                                                    http://home.comcast.net/~pvande1/railroad/canmotor1_1024.JPG


                                                                                                    The end of the can motor with the tube on.  These are 3 pole cans. 

                                                                                                    http://home.comcast.net/~pvande1/railroad/canmotor2_1024.JPG

                                                                                                    I've done this twice now, and both time using blue thread seal to secure the 1/8 tubing to the (2mm to 3/32) bushing.  Both times I've also managed to get the thread sealer into the shaft so it locks the shaft in place.  Putting the end into my dremel's chuck and turning the shaft at 5000 rpm seemed to free up the motor nicely.




                                                                                                    Phil VanderHeyden wrote:
                                                                                                    I'll have to try something like that.  The od for 3/32 bushing is 0.09375.  the od for 1/8" tubing is .0125.  The difference between these is 0.03125.  Half of that should be the ideal tube wall thickness to make this work or 0.015625.  I think the K&S tubing has a wall of 0.014.  So that should fit with enough clearance that some locktite should hold it.  (the Aline flywheels are loose fit like this for ease of assembly. A bit of blue automotive thread sealant held them on tight). 

                                                                                                    Does that sound right?  Although I'll keep looking for a single bushing from 2mm to 1/8. 

                                                                                                    thanks,

                                                                                                    Phil
                                                                                                    Baltimore

                                                                                                    Glenn wrote:
                                                                                                    you may have to do it in two steps--put the 2mm to 3/32" bushing on,, then add a piece of 1/8" tubing.That might allow a longer support surface for the flywheel.  I like NWSL's "Athearn Repower Kits" what have the flywheel on a 20x32mm motor, and I think now also include u-joints.   I also use that package to repower older brass that has the Japanese equivalent of a Pittman DC-70 motor--just mount the motor to a piece of K&S 1/16" x 1/2" brass, then drill and tap that for the motor screw(s).  Almost a drop-in fit. gj
                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 6:38 PM
                                                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] Repower for Athearn

                                                                                                    I'm repowering several of my older Athearns with can motors.  The
                                                                                                    problem I'm having is locating a 2mm to 1/8 inch bushing so I can use
                                                                                                    the stock flywheels.  I've repowered one unit with some A-line flywheels
                                                                                                    that had 2mm holes, but I'd like to use the stock flywheels to keep
                                                                                                    costs down.  Does anyone know of a bushing that converts 2mm to 1/8?  I
                                                                                                    didn't see this size listed in the NWSL list.

                                                                                                    thanks,

                                                                                                    Phil
                                                                                                    Baltimore




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                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1477 From: Dave Slater Date: 5/9/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Repower for Athearn - pictures of motor with bushings
                                                                                                    Glenn,
                                                                                                    Never heard of a 7 pole motor before, who makes them??
                                                                                                    Dave S.

                                                                                                    Glenn wrote:

                                                                                                    > 3-pole motors? hardly worth the effort--you want at least 5 poles, 7
                                                                                                    > is better. The more poles, the smoother they operate.
                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1478 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: 5/9/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
                                                                                                    Hello,

                                                                                                    This email message is a notification to let you know that
                                                                                                    a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vintageHO
                                                                                                    group.

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                                                                                                    Uploaded by : iimpster <iimpster@...>
                                                                                                    Description : GN Goaty chasing it's tail on a 4x8 (w/ help from 2 FP-45s)

                                                                                                    You can access this file at the URL:
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                                                                                                    Regards,

                                                                                                    iimpster <iimpster@...>
                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1479 From: Glenn Date: 5/9/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Repower for Athearn - pictures of motor with bushings
                                                                                                    Can't pin one down right now--but have encountered mentioon of them--I think the Pittman can motors are 7 poles--will fit cab units but not hood units--I had one in a Hobbytown PA. 
                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 6:31 PM
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Repower for Athearn - pictures of motor with bushings

                                                                                                    Glenn,
                                                                                                    Never heard of a 7 pole motor before, who makes them??
                                                                                                    Dave S.

                                                                                                    Glenn wrote:

                                                                                                    > 3-pole motors? hardly worth the effort--you want at least 5 poles, 7
                                                                                                    > is better. The more poles, the smoother they operate.

                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1480 From: Ray Hobin Date: 5/10/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: 7 pole motors
                                                                                                    "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                                    >Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 23:46:29 -0700

                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >Can't pin one down right now--but have encountered mentioon of them--I think the Pittman can motors are 7 poles--will fit cab units but not hood units--I had one in a Hobbytown PA.


                                                                                                    Back in th e late 60s an d early 70s, many of the diesels made by Kumata
                                                                                                    had double-shaft 7-pole open frame motors. That had "KMT" in large letters
                                                                                                    on the top. I found, after trueing and balancing them, to be excellent
                                                                                                    performers for open frame design.
                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1481 From: tinghey chou Date: 5/10/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: 回覆: Re: [vintageHO] Repower for Athearn - pictures of motor w
                                                                                                      Living near the factory in China, I got 2 of the Athearn (not genesis) motors. If someone want these new motors, i can sell them to you in a much lower price than in a hobby shop.

                                                                                                    Glenn <glenn476@...> 說:
                                                                                                    3-pole motors? hardly worth the effort--you want at least 5 poles, 7 is better. The more poles, the smoother they operate.
                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 9:51 PM
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Repower for Athearn - pictures of motor with bushings

                                                                                                    The 1/8 in tube method worked fairly well.  Here's a link to 2 pictures of the can motor with the NWSL bushing + 1/8 K&S brass tube

                                                                                                    Here's the motor with 2 Athearn SD40-T2 flywheels.  The 1/8 inch tube is a slip on.  I'll use a little lock tight to secure them, once I wire up the leads.

                                                                                                    http://home.comcast.net/~pvande1/railroad/canmotor1_1024.JPG


                                                                                                    The end of the can motor with the tube on.  These are 3 pole cans. 

                                                                                                    http://home.comcast.net/~pvande1/railroad/canmotor2_1024.JPG

                                                                                                    I've done this twice now, and both time using blue thread seal to secure the 1/8 tubing to the (2mm to 3/32) bushing.  Both times I've also managed to get the thread sealer into the shaft so it locks the shaft in place.  Putting the end into my dremel's chuck and turning the shaft at 5000 rpm seemed to free up the motor nicely.




                                                                                                    Phil VanderHeyden wrote:
                                                                                                    I'll have to try something like that.  The od for 3/32 bushing is 0.09375.  the od for 1/8" tubing is .0125.  The difference between these is 0.03125.  Half of that should be the ideal tube wall thickness to make this work or 0.015625.  I think the K&S tubing has a wall of 0.014.  So that should fit with enough clearance that some locktite should hold it.  (the Aline flywheels are loose fit like this for ease of assembly. A bit of blue automotive thread sealant held them on tight). 

                                                                                                    Does that sound right?  Although I'll keep looking for a single bushing from 2mm to 1/8. 

                                                                                                    thanks,

                                                                                                    Phil
                                                                                                    Baltimore

                                                                                                    Glenn wrote:
                                                                                                    you may have to do it in two steps--put the 2mm to 3/32" bushing on,, then add a piece of 1/8" tubing.That might allow a longer support surface for the flywheel.  I like NWSL's "Athearn Repower Kits" what have the flywheel on a 20x32mm motor, and I think now also include u-joints.   I also use that package to repower older brass that has the Japanese equivalent of a Pittman DC-70 motor--just mount the motor to a piece of K&S 1/16" x 1/2" brass, then drill and tap that for the motor screw(s).  Almost a drop-in fit. gj
                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 6:38 PM
                                                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] Repower for Athearn

                                                                                                    I'm repowering several of my older Athearns with can motors.  The
                                                                                                    problem I'm having is locating a 2mm to 1/8 inch bushing so I can use
                                                                                                    the stock flywheels.  I've repowered one unit with some A-line flywheels
                                                                                                    that had 2mm holes, but I'd like to use the stock flywheels to keep
                                                                                                    costs down.  Does anyone know of a bushing that converts 2mm to 1/8?  I
                                                                                                    didn't see this size listed in the NWSL list.

                                                                                                    thanks,

                                                                                                    Phil
                                                                                                    Baltimore




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                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1482 From: Jack Priller Date: 5/10/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Available old stuff
                                                                                                    Have been going through some boxes I haven't peeked into in a year
                                                                                                    or three; found some things that I thought I'd see if there is some
                                                                                                    interest here before I eBay them.

                                                                                                    Silver Streak Caboose Supply Car S806-395 Kit
                                                                                                    Original (slightly beat-up) box, no instruction sheet, may be
                                                                                                    missing a few pieces as it has been open for years.

                                                                                                    Mantua Metal Products Company "Deep Rock" tank car
                                                                                                    Assembled, no couplers, in original box which is in "fair"
                                                                                                    condition at best.

                                                                                                    JC Models 'Silversides' Passenger car
                                                                                                    I'd call it a kit, but it's more like parts from several kits
                                                                                                    plus
                                                                                                    some miscellaneous stuff including a pair of 3-axle trucks. An
                                                                                                    imaginative type, with a spare set of trucks, could probably build
                                                                                                    at
                                                                                                    least two cars out of this collection. Two original boxes full-to
                                                                                                    overflowing, plus a poorly assembled top/floor/both ends piece.

                                                                                                    Contact me off-list, whatever nobody wants goes on eBay Sunday night.

                                                                                                    Jack Priller
                                                                                                    Still loose in El Paso, TX
                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1483 From: Dave Slater Date: 5/10/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Repower for Athearn - pictures of motor with bushings
                                                                                                    May have to do some investigating here, I have an ancient Athearn PZ1 I would like to fix up and posibly "convert" to a CN / ALCO demo unit..
                                                                                                    Dave S.

                                                                                                    Glenn wrote:
                                                                                                    Can't pin one down right now--but have encountered mentioon of them--I think the Pittman can motors are 7 poles--will fit cab units but not hood units--I had one in a Hobbytown PA. 
                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 6:31 PM
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Repower for Athearn - pictures of motor with bushings

                                                                                                    Glenn,
                                                                                                    Never heard of a 7 pole motor before, who makes them??
                                                                                                    Dave S.

                                                                                                    Glenn wrote:

                                                                                                    > 3-pole motors? hardly worth the effort--you want at least 5 poles, 7
                                                                                                    > is better. The more poles, the smoother they operate.


                                                                                                    No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/336 - Release Date: 5/10/2006
                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1484 From: Dave Slater Date: 5/10/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Repower for Athearn - pictures of motor with bushings
                                                                                                    That should have read PA 1, Fat fingers and a small keyboard do NOT mix.. <VBG>
                                                                                                    Dave S.

                                                                                                    Dave Slater wrote:
                                                                                                    May have to do some investigating here, I have an ancient Athearn PZ1 I would like to fix up and posibly "convert" to a CN / ALCO demo unit..
                                                                                                    Dave S.

                                                                                                    Glenn wrote:
                                                                                                    Can't pin one down right now--but have encountered mentioon of them--I think the Pittman can motors are 7 poles--will fit cab units but not hood units--I had one in a Hobbytown PA. 
                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 6:31 PM
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Repower for Athearn - pictures of motor with bushings

                                                                                                    Glenn,
                                                                                                    Never heard of a 7 pole motor before, who makes them??
                                                                                                    Dave S.

                                                                                                    Glenn wrote:

                                                                                                    > 3-pole motors? hardly worth the effort--you want at least 5 poles, 7
                                                                                                    > is better. The more poles, the smoother they operate.


                                                                                                    No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/336 - Release Date: 5/10/2006

                                                                                                    No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/336 - Release Date: 5/10/2006
                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1485 From: Glenn Date: 5/10/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Repower for Athearn - pictures of motor with bushings
                                                                                                    I wondered if that was 25 versions later?? :<)  (Also a victim of fumblefingers on occasion)
                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 4:28 PM
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Repower for Athearn - pictures of motor with bushings

                                                                                                    That should have read PA 1, Fat fingers and a small keyboard do NOT mix.. <VBG>
                                                                                                    Dave S.

                                                                                                    Dave Slater wrote:
                                                                                                    May have to do some investigating here, I have an ancient Athearn PZ1 I would like to fix up and posibly "convert" to a CN / ALCO demo unit..
                                                                                                    Dave S.

                                                                                                    Glenn wrote:
                                                                                                    Can't pin one down right now--but have encountered mentioon of them--I think the Pittman can motors are 7 poles--will fit cab units but not hood units--I had one in a Hobbytown PA. 
                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 6:31 PM
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Repower for Athearn - pictures of motor with bushings

                                                                                                    Glenn,
                                                                                                    Never heard of a 7 pole motor before, who makes them??
                                                                                                    Dave S.

                                                                                                    Glenn wrote:

                                                                                                    > 3-pole motors? hardly worth the effort--you want at least 5 poles, 7
                                                                                                    > is better. The more poles, the smoother they operate.


                                                                                                    No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/336 - Release Date: 5/10/2006

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                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1486 From: Dave Slater Date: 5/10/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Repower for Athearn - pictures of motor with bushings
                                                                                                    Possible Glen, very possible..  LOL
                                                                                                    Dave S.

                                                                                                    Glenn wrote:
                                                                                                    I wondered if that was 25 versions later?? :<)  (Also a victim of fumblefingers on occasion)
                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 4:28 PM
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Repower for Athearn - pictures of motor with bushings

                                                                                                    That should have read PA 1, Fat fingers and a small keyboard do NOT mix.. <VBG>
                                                                                                    Dave S.

                                                                                                    Dave Slater wrote:
                                                                                                    May have to do some investigating here, I have an ancient Athearn PZ1 I would like to fix up and posibly "convert" to a CN / ALCO demo unit..
                                                                                                    Dave S.

                                                                                                    Glenn wrote:
                                                                                                    Can't pin one down right now--but have encountered mentioon of them--I think the Pittman can motors are 7 poles--will fit cab units but not hood units--I had one in a Hobbytown PA. 
                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 6:31 PM
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Repower for Athearn - pictures of motor with bushings

                                                                                                    Glenn,
                                                                                                    Never heard of a 7 pole motor before, who makes them??
                                                                                                    Dave S.

                                                                                                    Glenn wrote:

                                                                                                    > 3-pole motors? hardly worth the effort--you want at least 5 poles, 7
                                                                                                    > is better. The more poles, the smoother they operate.


                                                                                                    No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/336 - Release Date: 5/10/2006

                                                                                                    No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/336 - Release Date: 5/10/2006

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                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1487 From: Phil VanderHeyden Date: 5/10/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: 7 pole motors
                                                                                                    I think the 'old' hobbytown motors were 5 pole Pittman DC-71s. They run
                                                                                                    very well, but use a lot of current. I still have several, but I'm
                                                                                                    converting them to cans. Bowser will sell a rebuilt DC-71 with a skewed
                                                                                                    armature (which improves the starting torque) for their steamers.
                                                                                                    (http://www.bowser-trains.com/hoother/dcc/dcc.htm). I haven't tried
                                                                                                    these, but I imagine they would do very nicely for a single pole
                                                                                                    application.

                                                                                                    If you need some other motors for hobbytown or even an Athearn
                                                                                                    conversion, Bear Locomotive (the current Hobbytown owner) has a
                                                                                                    selection of motors here
                                                                                                    (http://www.bearlocomotive.com/category/hobbytown_parts.motors_accessories_detail_parts/)

                                                                                                    phil

                                                                                                    Ray Hobin wrote:
                                                                                                    > "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                                    > >Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 23:46:29 -0700
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    > >Can't pin one down right now--but have encountered mentioon of
                                                                                                    > them--I think the Pittman can motors are 7 poles--will fit cab units
                                                                                                    > but not hood units--I had one in a Hobbytown PA.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Back in th e late 60s an d early 70s, many of the diesels made by Kumata
                                                                                                    > had double-shaft 7-pole open frame motors. That had "KMT" in large
                                                                                                    > letters
                                                                                                    > on the top. I found, after trueing and balancing them, to be excellent
                                                                                                    > performers for open frame design.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > SPONSORED LINKS
                                                                                                    > Ho scale
                                                                                                    > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ho+scale&w1=Ho+scale&w2=G+scale+model+train&w3=G+scale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&c=5&s=105&.sig=8KOGo_UHbh1z3_tfejZc3g>
                                                                                                    > G scale model train
                                                                                                    > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=G+scale+model+train&w1=Ho+scale&w2=G+scale+model+train&w3=G+scale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&c=5&s=105&.sig=DYMOtZbTn2X5dWehROXrYA>
                                                                                                    > G scale train
                                                                                                    > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=G+scale+train&w1=Ho+scale&w2=G+scale+model+train&w3=G+scale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&c=5&s=105&.sig=jwWwyG6k7w-XKTP_W-OISw>
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Ho scale model train
                                                                                                    > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ho+scale+model+train&w1=Ho+scale&w2=G+scale+model+train&w3=G+scale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&c=5&s=105&.sig=Efz14TYTnr3ek3U3Ki12dw>
                                                                                                    > Ho scale trains
                                                                                                    > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ho+scale+trains&w1=Ho+scale&w2=G+scale+model+train&w3=G+scale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&c=5&s=105&.sig=fcEGSsw1wP9YV9MbEbe8sA>
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                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1488 From: Glenn Date: 5/11/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: 7 pole motors
                                                                                                    The Pittman I had in the Hobbytown PA was a cylindrical industrial motor, ball bearings, and at least 7 poles.  It replaced a Pittman OF DC-91 that a friend wanted to match one in an O Scale loco.
                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 6:05 PM
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 7 pole motors

                                                                                                    I think the 'old' hobbytown motors were 5 pole Pittman DC-71s.  They run
                                                                                                    very well, but use a lot of current.  I still have several, but I'm
                                                                                                    converting them to cans.  Bowser will sell a rebuilt DC-71 with a skewed
                                                                                                    armature (which improves the starting torque) for their steamers. 
                                                                                                    (http://www.bowser-trains.com/hoother/dcc/dcc.htm).  I haven't tried
                                                                                                    these, but I imagine they would do very nicely for a single pole
                                                                                                    application.

                                                                                                    If you need some other motors for hobbytown or even an Athearn
                                                                                                    conversion, Bear Locomotive (the current Hobbytown owner) has a
                                                                                                    selection of motors here
                                                                                                    (http://www.bearlocomotive.com/category/hobbytown_parts.motors_accessories_detail_parts/)

                                                                                                    phil

                                                                                                    Ray Hobin wrote:
                                                                                                    > "Glenn" <glenn476@...>  wrote:
                                                                                                    > >Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 23:46:29 -0700
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    > >Can't pin one down right now--but have encountered mentioon of
                                                                                                    > them--I think the Pittman can motors are 7 poles--will fit cab units
                                                                                                    > but not hood units--I had one in a Hobbytown PA.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Back in th e late 60s an d early 70s, many of the diesels made by Kumata
                                                                                                    > had double-shaft 7-pole open frame motors.  That had "KMT" in large
                                                                                                    > letters
                                                                                                    > on the top.  I found, after trueing and balancing them, to be excellent
                                                                                                    > performers for open frame design.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > SPONSORED LINKS
                                                                                                    > Ho scale
                                                                                                    > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ho+scale&w1=Ho+scale&w2=G+scale+model+train&w3=G+scale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&c=5&s=105&.sig=8KOGo_UHbh1z3_tfejZc3g>
                                                                                                    >       G scale model train
                                                                                                    > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=G+scale+model+train&w1=Ho+scale&w2=G+scale+model+train&w3=G+scale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&c=5&s=105&.sig=DYMOtZbTn2X5dWehROXrYA>
                                                                                                    >       G scale train
                                                                                                    > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=G+scale+train&w1=Ho+scale&w2=G+scale+model+train&w3=G+scale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&c=5&s=105&.sig=jwWwyG6k7w-XKTP_W-OISw>
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Ho scale model train
                                                                                                    > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ho+scale+model+train&w1=Ho+scale&w2=G+scale+model+train&w3=G+scale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&c=5&s=105&.sig=Efz14TYTnr3ek3U3Ki12dw>
                                                                                                    >       Ho scale trains
                                                                                                    > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ho+scale+trains&w1=Ho+scale&w2=G+scale+model+train&w3=G+scale+train&w4=Ho+scale+model+train&w5=Ho+scale+trains&c=5&s=105&.sig=fcEGSsw1wP9YV9MbEbe8sA>
                                                                                                    >
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                                                                                                    >
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                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1489 From: Bill Daley Date: 5/11/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: 7 pole motors
                                                                                                    Glenn <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                                    "The Pittman I had in the Hobbytown PA was a cylindrical industrial motor, ball bearings, and at least 7 poles.  Etc"
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    Years back I got two Pittman cylindrical motors from an electronics supply mail house. I think they were for tape drives.May have had 7 poles, etc.  Put them into Athern A+B units which were wired so A unit picked up power for both units. (So when A unit went into "dead" block, the B didn't keep grinding away.)  These units pulled well, were quiet, but top speed was limited.
                                                                                                    Along came DCC and because the current draw was so low, I was able to use one 1.5A rated decoder for both units. BUT, somehow using a decoder slowed down the units even more. Used computer program to set speed curve but got no improvement. Motors reach max speed at 1/2 the speed steps; increasing speed steps has no effect. Units still run well, but not at crack passemger speed, more like milk train speed. 
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    Moral: Sometimes switching motors isn't the answer.
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    Willie
                                                                                                    chief snoop for the spelling police.  
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                     
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                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1490 From: Glenn Date: 5/11/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: 7 pole motors
                                                                                                    I found that, too--I have two sets of Varney ABBA F-3's--lead pairs have Hobbytown Multi-drives with "Holland" can motors and zamak bodies. The motors are in the B units, driving gearboxes in the lead A & B. (The only identification of these motors was "Made in Holland".  They are about an inch in diameter and 1.25" long, with double-end 1/8" shafts.  Plenty of torque, but rather low RPM's)  I have several of these in my On3 K-36's.  Great there, but the F-3's are a bit slow for the Zephyr.  Trailing units are plastic shells.  one set is in as-delivered D&RGW Black & yellow, the other in orange & silver 4-stripe. Either set will handle an 11-car California Zephyr with Con-cor cars weighted to NMRA RP-20.1.
                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    From: Bill Daley
                                                                                                    Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 10:44 AM
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 7 pole motors



                                                                                                    Glenn <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                                    "The Pittman I had in the Hobbytown PA was a cylindrical industrial motor, ball bearings, and at least 7 poles.  Etc"
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    Years back I got two Pittman cylindrical motors from an electronics supply mail house. I think they were for tape drives.May have had 7 poles, etc.  Put them into Athern A+B units which were wired so A unit picked up power for both units. (So when A unit went into "dead" block, the B didn't keep grinding away.)  These units pulled well, were quiet, but top speed was limited.
                                                                                                    Along came DCC and because the current draw was so low, I was able to use one 1.5A rated decoder for both units. BUT, somehow using a decoder slowed down the units even more. Used computer program to set speed curve but got no improvement. Motors reach max speed at 1/2 the speed steps; increasing speed steps has no effect. Units still run well, but not at crack passemger speed, more like milk train speed. 
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    Moral: Sometimes switching motors isn't the answer.
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    Willie
                                                                                                    chief snoop for the spelling police.  
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                     
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                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1491 From: Phil VanderHeyden Date: 5/11/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: 7 pole motors
                                                                                                    Those "holland" can motors are the mac daddy of the small DC motor
                                                                                                    world. Torque by the boxcar load, run forever with almost no heating.
                                                                                                    I think the original application was for professional video tape decks.
                                                                                                    Proto Power West used to have the double shaft version for converting
                                                                                                    Athearn drives. But the dual drive Hobbytown set up would be the best,
                                                                                                    especially with an extra pound (or 2) of lead in the multi-drive unit.
                                                                                                    Too bad they aren't easy to find (for a reasonable price). Which gear
                                                                                                    set are you running on the hobbytown units. I've always found the
                                                                                                    medium speed to be too fast, but probably not for passenger trains.

                                                                                                    phil

                                                                                                    Glenn wrote:
                                                                                                    > I found that, too--I have two sets of Varney ABBA F-3's--lead pairs
                                                                                                    > have Hobbytown Multi-drives with "Holland" can motors and zamak
                                                                                                    > bodies. The motors are in the B units, driving gearboxes in the lead A
                                                                                                    > & B. (The only identification of these motors was "Made in Holland".
                                                                                                    > They are about an inch in diameter and 1.25" long, with double-end
                                                                                                    > 1/8" shafts. Plenty of torque, but rather low RPM's) I have several
                                                                                                    > of these in my On3 K-36's. Great there, but the F-3's are a bit slow
                                                                                                    > for the Zephyr. Trailing units are plastic shells. one set is in
                                                                                                    > as-delivered D&RGW Black & yellow, the other in orange & silver
                                                                                                    > 4-stripe. Either set will handle an 11-car California Zephyr with
                                                                                                    > Con-cor cars weighted to NMRA RP-20.1.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    > *From:* Bill Daley <mailto:retiredgrouch@...>
                                                                                                    > *To:* vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                    > *Sent:* Thursday, May 11, 2006 10:44 AM
                                                                                                    > *Subject:* Re: [vintageHO] 7 pole motors
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > */Glenn <glenn476@... <mailto:glenn476@...>>/* wrote:
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > "The Pittman I had in the Hobbytown PA was a cylindrical
                                                                                                    > industrial motor, ball bearings, and at least 7 poles. Etc"
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Years back I got two Pittman cylindrical motors from an
                                                                                                    > electronics supply mail house. I think they were for tape
                                                                                                    > drives.May have had 7 poles, etc. Put them into Athern A+B
                                                                                                    > units which were wired so A unit picked up power for both
                                                                                                    > units. (So when A unit went into "dead" block, the B didn't
                                                                                                    > keep grinding away.) These units pulled well, were quiet, but
                                                                                                    > top speed was limited.
                                                                                                    > Along came DCC and because the current draw was so low, I was
                                                                                                    > able to use one 1.5A rated decoder for both units. BUT,
                                                                                                    > somehow using a decoder slowed down the units even more. Used
                                                                                                    > computer program to set speed curve but got no improvement.
                                                                                                    > Motors reach max speed at 1/2 the speed steps; increasing
                                                                                                    > speed steps has no effect. Units still run well, but not at
                                                                                                    > crack passemger speed, more like milk train speed.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Moral: Sometimes switching motors isn't the answer.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Willie
                                                                                                    > chief snoop for the spelling police.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
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                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1492 From: Mike Date: 5/12/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: It's Dellview time
                                                                                                    Hey everyone it's Dellview time and you can visit the small ho scale
                                                                                                    town here at http://dellview.sitesled.com/ Visit to find out whats
                                                                                                    going on.
                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1493 From: Roger Aultman Date: 5/12/2006
                                                                                                    Subject: Lightning strikes twice
                                                                                                    Attachments :
                                                                                                      Attached is a pix of a Hobbyline plastic Yardbird I just received from
                                                                                                      a eBay auction. It looks complete though no steps on the tender. I
                                                                                                      runs if a bit unsteadily as the pickup is all on the loco. All in all
                                                                                                      a piece I am happy to own. Roger Aultman



                                                                                                      --
                                                                                                      http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

                                                                                                      Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1494 From: Gerry D Date: 5/12/2006
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: It's Dellview time
                                                                                                      Very Good!!!
                                                                                                      Thank You!

                                                                                                      --- Mike <madmax_32@...> wrote:

                                                                                                      > Hey everyone it's Dellview time and you can visit
                                                                                                      > the small ho scale
                                                                                                      > town here at http://dellview.sitesled.com/ Visit to
                                                                                                      > find out whats
                                                                                                      > going on.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >


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                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1495 From: Glenn Date: 5/12/2006
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: 7 pole motors
                                                                                                      The ones I have had either high or low speed--I started witht the los, then went to the high to get reasonable mountain speed for the CZ 
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      When the P2k Alcos came out I got an ABA set and traded away the Hobbytown PA with the big Pittman.  I use the Pittmans a lot in O Scale.  Jerry White once told me you can't burn one out in an O Scale loco--stall current is over 10 amps on a lot to them--but this might rule them out for DCC. You'd weld the wheels to the rail before burning one out.  
                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                      Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 6:02 PM
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 7 pole motors

                                                                                                      Those "holland" can motors are the mac daddy of the small DC motor
                                                                                                      world.  Torque by the boxcar load, run forever with almost no heating. 
                                                                                                      I think the original application was for professional video tape decks. 
                                                                                                      Proto Power West used to have the double shaft version for converting
                                                                                                      Athearn drives.  But the dual drive Hobbytown set up would be the best,
                                                                                                      especially with an extra pound (or 2) of lead in the multi-drive unit. 
                                                                                                      Too bad they aren't easy to find (for a reasonable price).  Which gear
                                                                                                      set are you running on the hobbytown  units.  I've always found the
                                                                                                      medium speed to be too fast, but probably not for passenger trains.

                                                                                                      phil

                                                                                                      Glenn wrote:
                                                                                                      > I found that, too--I have two sets of Varney ABBA F-3's--lead pairs
                                                                                                      > have Hobbytown Multi-drives with "Holland" can motors and zamak
                                                                                                      > bodies. The motors are in the B units, driving gearboxes in the lead A
                                                                                                      > & B. (The only identification of these motors was "Made in Holland". 
                                                                                                      > They are about an inch in diameter and 1.25" long, with double-end
                                                                                                      > 1/8" shafts.  Plenty of torque, but rather low RPM's)  I have several
                                                                                                      > of these in my On3 K-36's.  Great there, but the F-3's are a bit slow
                                                                                                      > for the Zephyr.  Trailing units are plastic shells.  one set is in
                                                                                                      > as-delivered D&RGW Black & yellow, the other in orange & silver
                                                                                                      > 4-stripe. Either set will handle an 11-car California Zephyr with
                                                                                                      > Con-cor cars weighted to NMRA RP-20.1.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >     ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                      >     *From:* Bill Daley <mailto:retiredgrouch@...>
                                                                                                      >     *To:* vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                      >     *Sent:* Thursday, May 11, 2006 10:44 AM
                                                                                                      >     *Subject:* Re: [vintageHO] 7 pole motors
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >     */Glenn <glenn476@... <mailto:glenn476@...>>/* wrote:
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >         "The Pittman I had in the Hobbytown PA was a cylindrical
                                                                                                      >         industrial motor, ball bearings, and at least 7 poles.  Etc"
                                                                                                      >         
                                                                                                      >         Years back I got two Pittman cylindrical motors from an
                                                                                                      >         electronics supply mail house. I think they were for tape
                                                                                                      >         drives.May have had 7 poles, etc.  Put them into Athern A+B
                                                                                                      >         units which were wired so A unit picked up power for both
                                                                                                      >         units. (So when A unit went into "dead" block, the B didn't
                                                                                                      >         keep grinding away.)  These units pulled well, were quiet, but
                                                                                                      >         top speed was limited.
                                                                                                      >         Along came DCC and because the current draw was so low, I was
                                                                                                      >         able to use one 1.5A rated decoder for both units. BUT,
                                                                                                      >         somehow using a decoder slowed down the units even more. Used
                                                                                                      >         computer program to set speed curve but got no improvement.
                                                                                                      >         Motors reach max speed at 1/2 the speed steps; increasing
                                                                                                      >         speed steps has no effect. Units still run well, but not at
                                                                                                      >         crack passemger speed, more like milk train speed.
                                                                                                      >         
                                                                                                      >         Moral: Sometimes switching motors isn't the answer.
                                                                                                      >         
                                                                                                      >         Willie
                                                                                                      >         chief snoop for the spelling police. 
                                                                                                      >         
                                                                                                      >         
                                                                                                      >         
                                                                                                      >         
                                                                                                      >         
                                                                                                      >         
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                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1496 From: Jack Priller Date: 5/14/2006
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Available old stuff
                                                                                                      Stuff listed below, and a few other things I 'discovered' in old
                                                                                                      boxes is now on eBay; seller is "iluvsultan".

                                                                                                      Jack

                                                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Priller" <westpac67@...>
                                                                                                      wrote:
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Have been going through some boxes I haven't peeked into in a
                                                                                                      year
                                                                                                      > or three; found some things that I thought I'd see if there is
                                                                                                      some
                                                                                                      > interest here before I eBay them.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Silver Streak Caboose Supply Car S806-395 Kit
                                                                                                      > Original (slightly beat-up) box, no instruction sheet, may be
                                                                                                      > missing a few pieces as it has been open for years.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Mantua Metal Products Company "Deep Rock" tank car
                                                                                                      > Assembled, no couplers, in original box which is in "fair"
                                                                                                      > condition at best.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > JC Models 'Silversides' Passenger car
                                                                                                      > I'd call it a kit, but it's more like parts from several kits
                                                                                                      > plus
                                                                                                      > some miscellaneous stuff including a pair of 3-axle trucks. An
                                                                                                      > imaginative type, with a spare set of trucks, could probably build
                                                                                                      > at
                                                                                                      > least two cars out of this collection. Two original boxes full-to
                                                                                                      > overflowing, plus a poorly assembled top/floor/both ends piece.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Contact me off-list, whatever nobody wants goes on eBay Sunday
                                                                                                      night.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Jack Priller
                                                                                                      > Still loose in El Paso, TX
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1497 From: Garry Spear Date: 5/15/2006
                                                                                                      Subject: FA: Vintage Mantua Catalogs, Laconia Kits, & more
                                                                                                      For the lover (er collector) of old HO. I have listed on eBay (ending
                                                                                                      Tuesday Night):

                                                                                                      3 Mantua catalogs for the 1940s.
                                                                                                      2 Athearn kits assembled by a master kit builder (not me), an Ambroid
                                                                                                      Livesay Poultry Car and Navy Helium Car; both cars have CV trucks and
                                                                                                      Kayde couplers.
                                                                                                      4 (or so) Laconia Advertizing refeers, like Bull Frog Beer, Peerless
                                                                                                      Beer and other interesting kits.

                                                                                                      My seller id is garlen or
                                                                                                      http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZgarlen

                                                                                                      Garry Spear
                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1498 From: Gerry Date: 5/16/2006
                                                                                                      Subject: Unknown hustler locomotive...
                                                                                                      Hello all,

                                                                                                      I just got in the mail a unique "hustler" type locomotive. It was a
                                                                                                      win on Ebay. It had a D&RG shell, but the mechanics are what's
                                                                                                      unusual. I've had Athearn's version with rubber band drives, My first
                                                                                                      HO locomotive was Lionel's version which had two brass worms directly
                                                                                                      driving the axels.

                                                                                                      This one's different.

                                                                                                      There's a motor like the old Tyco motors inside with a white metal
                                                                                                      gear on the shaft which drives another white metal gear on another
                                                                                                      shaft with two worms that drive the axels.

                                                                                                      As I'm at work now, I don't have access to the photos, but I'll post
                                                                                                      them later this afternoon for your respected opinions as to it's origin.

                                                                                                      Personally I'm leaning to a remotoring kit at some time in the past
                                                                                                      being applied to the unit. So this is a heads-up and a pre-opinion invite.

                                                                                                      As an asside, I posted in the MDCRoundhouse group,
                                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mdcroundhouse/
                                                                                                      a short story about a friend and mentor I had at MDC in the late 70's.
                                                                                                      I lost touch with him back then but just last week found him again.

                                                                                                      Cordially,
                                                                                                      Gerry
                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1499 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 5/16/2006
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Unknown hustler locomotive...
                                                                                                      Hi Gerry,
                                                                                                       Marx and PennLine made small 4 wheel locos with that type drive.
                                                                                                       The Marx shell fit over their F3 power truck.
                                                                                                       The PennLine was metal and had exposed wheels with no sideframes.
                                                                                                       There is another one on the market more recently but I am not familiar with the drive. I think it is Model Power or IHC.

                                                                                                      Gerry <gerard_sr@...> wrote:
                                                                                                      Hello all,

                                                                                                      I just got in the mail a unique "hustler" type locomotive. It was a
                                                                                                      win on Ebay. It had a D&RG shell, but the mechanics are what's
                                                                                                      unusual. I've had Athearn's version with rubber band drives, My first
                                                                                                      HO locomotive was Lionel's version which had two brass worms directly
                                                                                                      driving the axels.

                                                                                                      This one's different.

                                                                                                      There's a motor like the old Tyco motors inside with a white metal
                                                                                                      gear on the shaft which drives another white metal gear on another
                                                                                                      shaft with two worms that drive the axels.

                                                                                                      As I'm at work now, I don't have access to the photos, but I'll post
                                                                                                      them later this afternoon for your respected opinions as to it's origin.

                                                                                                      Personally I'm leaning to a remotoring kit at some time in the past
                                                                                                      being applied to the unit. So this is a heads-up and a pre-opinion invite.

                                                                                                      As an asside, I posted in the MDCRoundhouse group,
                                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mdcroundhouse/
                                                                                                      a short story about a friend and mentor I had at MDC in the late 70's.
                                                                                                      I lost touch with him back then but just last week found him again.

                                                                                                      Cordially,
                                                                                                      Gerry







                                                                                                      Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for just 2¢/min with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.

                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1500 From: Gerry Date: 5/16/2006
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Unknown hustler locomotive...
                                                                                                      Hi Ray,
                                                                                                      I think it's pretty old. And it's definately not a F-3 power truck as
                                                                                                      you will see. Nor do I think It's a PennLine.

                                                                                                      The fella I won it from, Lex, said he believed it was a Lionel.

                                                                                                      Rather than tie up the file space with this, I posted it on my
                                                                                                      website.

                                                                                                      It can be seen at:
                                                                                                      http://kitbash.ourpage.com/shifter

                                                                                                      Cordially,
                                                                                                      Gerry

                                                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Ray Marinaccio <raymarinaccio@...>
                                                                                                      wrote:
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Hi Gerry,
                                                                                                      > Marx and PennLine made small 4 wheel locos with that type drive.
                                                                                                      > The Marx shell fit over their F3 power truck.
                                                                                                      > The PennLine was metal and had exposed wheels with no sideframes.
                                                                                                      > There is another one on the market more recently but I am not
                                                                                                      familiar with the drive. I think it is Model Power or IHC.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Gerry <gerard_sr@...> wrote:
                                                                                                      > Hello all,
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > I just got in the mail a unique "hustler" type locomotive. It was a
                                                                                                      > win on Ebay. It had a D&RG shell, but the mechanics are what's
                                                                                                      > unusual. I've had Athearn's version with rubber band drives, My
                                                                                                      first
                                                                                                      > HO locomotive was Lionel's version which had two brass worms
                                                                                                      directly
                                                                                                      > driving the axels.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > This one's different.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > There's a motor like the old Tyco motors inside with a white metal
                                                                                                      > gear on the shaft which drives another white metal gear on another
                                                                                                      > shaft with two worms that drive the axels.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > As I'm at work now, I don't have access to the photos, but I'll post
                                                                                                      > them later this afternoon for your respected opinions as to it's
                                                                                                      origin.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Personally I'm leaning to a remotoring kit at some time in the past
                                                                                                      > being applied to the unit. So this is a heads-up and a pre-opinion
                                                                                                      invite.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > As an asside, I posted in the MDCRoundhouse group,
                                                                                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mdcroundhouse/
                                                                                                      > a short story about a friend and mentor I had at MDC in the late
                                                                                                      70's.
                                                                                                      > I lost touch with him back then but just last week found him again.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Cordially,
                                                                                                      > Gerry
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
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                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1501 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 5/16/2006
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Unknown hustler locomotive...
                                                                                                      Gerry,
                                                                                                       That looks like the Athearn Hustler shell produced for Lionel. Not the Lionel Husky shell.
                                                                                                       I have never seen that drive though.
                                                                                                       The sideframes are different from both the Athearn and Lionel frames that I've seen. The wheelbase looks shorter to me.
                                                                                                      Lionel may have made another drive. ?
                                                                                                       Athearn also produced Hustlers for Cox, but I have never seen one so I don't know if they had a different drive.

                                                                                                      Gerry <gerard_sr@...> wrote:
                                                                                                      Hi Ray,
                                                                                                      I think it's pretty old. And it's definitely not a F-3 power truck as
                                                                                                      you will see. Nor do I think It's a PennLine.

                                                                                                      The fella I won it from, Lex, said he believed it was a Lionel.

                                                                                                      Rather than tie up the file space with this, I posted it on my
                                                                                                      website.

                                                                                                      It can be seen at:
                                                                                                      http://kitbash.ourpage.com/shifter

                                                                                                      Cordially,
                                                                                                      Gerry

                                                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Ray Marinaccio <raymarinaccio@...>
                                                                                                      wrote:
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Hi Gerry,
                                                                                                      >    Marx and PennLine made small 4 wheel locos with that type drive.
                                                                                                      >    The Marx shell fit over their F3 power truck.
                                                                                                      >    The PennLine was metal and had exposed wheels with no sideframes.
                                                                                                      >    There is another one on the market more recently but I am not
                                                                                                      familiar with the drive. I think it is Model Power or IHC.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Gerry <gerard_sr@...> wrote:
                                                                                                      >   Hello all,
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > I just got in the mail a unique "hustler" type locomotive. It was a
                                                                                                      > win on Ebay. It had a D&RG shell, but the mechanics are what's
                                                                                                      > unusual. I've had Athearn's version with rubber band drives, My
                                                                                                      first
                                                                                                      > HO locomotive was Lionel's version which had two brass worms
                                                                                                      directly
                                                                                                      > driving the axels.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > This one's different.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > There's a motor like the old Tyco motors inside with a white metal
                                                                                                      > gear on the shaft which drives another white metal gear on another
                                                                                                      > shaft with two worms that drive the axels.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > As I'm at work now, I don't have access to the photos, but I'll post
                                                                                                      > them later this afternoon for your respected opinions as to it's
                                                                                                      origin.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Personally I'm leaning to a remotoring kit at some time in the past
                                                                                                      > being applied to the unit. So this is a heads-up and a pre-opinion
                                                                                                      invite.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > As an asside, I posted in the MDCRoundhouse group,
                                                                                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mdcroundhouse/
                                                                                                      > a short story about a friend and mentor I had at MDC in the late
                                                                                                      70's.
                                                                                                      > I lost touch with him back then but just last week found him again.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Cordially,
                                                                                                      > Gerry
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >    
                                                                                                      > ---------------------------------
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                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >    
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                                                                                                      >    
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                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1502 From: oljoe@landolls.com Date: 5/17/2006
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Unknown hustler locomotive...
                                                                                                      I'm familiar with most of the varioous Athearn/Hustler drive
                                                                                                      combinations. The motor in your example appears to be a Pittman
                                                                                                      which, as far as I know, was never used by Athearn or Lionel
                                                                                                      in this truck. The truck is/was made by Athearn - the evidence
                                                                                                      is on the sideframe showing the screws used to hold the truck
                                                                                                      together. The vertical gearing shown was never used by either
                                                                                                      Athearn or Lionel. The Lionel geared version had a worm gear
                                                                                                      on each end of the motor shaft and was poorly crafted in that
                                                                                                      low speed operation was very poor - much worse than you would
                                                                                                      expect for a worm geared loco. I remember being thrilled that
                                                                                                      it was supposed to be a worm geared loco only to be disappointed
                                                                                                      with its very poor running characteristics when in did show up
                                                                                                      for sale. Grandt lines did a decent geared swap out for the
                                                                                                      chassis but it didn't look anything like your pictures although it
                                                                                                      is a geared setup (I have one of the kits they offered and believe
                                                                                                      me it is not for the faint of heart and I do have one built up
                                                                                                      version that I use with a Cary box cab - pulls VERY well ). The
                                                                                                      setup looks much like the Marx Hustler setup but they didn't
                                                                                                      use Pittman motors. The Marx truck was nothing more than a
                                                                                                      truck from the Marx F7. Oddly enough the Marx unit runs
                                                                                                      fairly well but it wasn't heavy enough to maintain good contact
                                                                                                      with the rails.

                                                                                                      Right up to the end of the Athearn production the same motor
                                                                                                      was used although there were several schemes used for geting
                                                                                                      the power to the wheels that all involved the use of rubberbands. I have
                                                                                                      never seen any examples of the Lionel offering that differed except for
                                                                                                      the very early Athearn manufactured rubber band drives (I believe
                                                                                                      that only lasted for the first year of production).

                                                                                                      Your example is most likely a well done kit-bash by someone
                                                                                                      who wanted better operation of the chassis. I would be curious
                                                                                                      to hear your comments about how well yours it runs at low speeds.

                                                                                                      The cab used is a Stock Lionel Rio Grand item. All shells for
                                                                                                      the Athearn/Lionel Hustlers are interchangeable with each other.

                                                                                                      I base my observations on the actual units of the above mentioned
                                                                                                      items that I personally own from Athearn, Lionel, Marx, Grandt.
                                                                                                      The one that runs the best is the Grandt line but a well tuned
                                                                                                      Athearn is also a good runner - and darned quick at that matching
                                                                                                      the name given to it. The Lionel is/was a good second as far
                                                                                                      as high speed is concerned.

                                                                                                      I buy these things when I see them on ebay, usually at very nice
                                                                                                      prices.

                                                                                                      Joe O'Loughlin


                                                                                                      Ray Marinaccio wrote:
                                                                                                      > Gerry,
                                                                                                      > That looks like the Athearn Hustler shell produced for Lionel. Not the
                                                                                                      > Lionel Husky shell.
                                                                                                      > I have never seen that drive though.
                                                                                                      > The sideframes are different from both the Athearn and Lionel frames
                                                                                                      > that I've seen. The wheelbase looks shorter to me.
                                                                                                      > Lionel may have made another drive. ?
                                                                                                      > Athearn also produced Hustlers for Cox, but I have never seen one so I
                                                                                                      > don't know if they had a different drive.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Gerry <gerard_sr@...> wrote:
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Hi Ray,
                                                                                                      > I think it's pretty old. And it's definitely not a F-3 power truck as
                                                                                                      > you will see. Nor do I think It's a PennLine.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > The fella I won it from, Lex, said he believed it was a Lionel.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Rather than tie up the file space with this, I posted it on my
                                                                                                      > website.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > It can be seen at:
                                                                                                      > http://kitbash.ourpage.com/shifter
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Cordially,
                                                                                                      > Gerry
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Ray Marinaccio <raymarinaccio@...>
                                                                                                      > wrote:
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > > Hi Gerry,
                                                                                                      > > Marx and PennLine made small 4 wheel locos with that type drive.
                                                                                                      > > The Marx shell fit over their F3 power truck.
                                                                                                      > > The PennLine was metal and had exposed wheels with no sideframes.
                                                                                                      > > There is another one on the market more recently but I am not
                                                                                                      > familiar with the drive. I think it is Model Power or IHC.
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > > Gerry <gerard_sr@...> wrote:
                                                                                                      > > Hello all,
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > > I just got in the mail a unique "hustler" type locomotive. It was a
                                                                                                      > > win on Ebay. It had a D&RG shell, but the mechanics are what's
                                                                                                      > > unusual. I've had Athearn's version with rubber band drives, My
                                                                                                      > first
                                                                                                      > > HO locomotive was Lionel's version which had two brass worms
                                                                                                      > directly
                                                                                                      > > driving the axels.
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > > This one's different.
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > > There's a motor like the old Tyco motors inside with a white metal
                                                                                                      > > gear on the shaft which drives another white metal gear on another
                                                                                                      > > shaft with two worms that drive the axels.
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > > As I'm at work now, I don't have access to the photos, but I'll post
                                                                                                      > > them later this afternoon for your respected opinions as to it's
                                                                                                      > origin.
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > > Personally I'm leaning to a remotoring kit at some time in the past
                                                                                                      > > being applied to the unit. So this is a heads-up and a pre-opinion
                                                                                                      > invite.
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > > As an asside, I posted in the MDCRoundhouse group,
                                                                                                      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mdcroundhouse/
                                                                                                      > > a short story about a friend and mentor I had at MDC in the late
                                                                                                      > 70's.
                                                                                                      > > I lost touch with him back then but just last week found him again.
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > > Cordially,
                                                                                                      > > Gerry
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                      > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > > Visit your group "vintageHO" on the web.
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                      > > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                      > Service.
                                                                                                      > >
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                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > > ---------------------------------
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                                                                                                      > just 2¢/min with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.
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                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1503 From: Jim Snyder Date: 5/23/2006
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Qustion, Re.: Varney 2-8-4
                                                                                                      All depends... Are you Glenn Joesten? If you are, then you DOknow me... I am 6'6"- we
                                                                                                      used to yak over at the club in Salinas. I'm an On3 guy, primarily... I now live in Marina-

                                                                                                      Thanks!

                                                                                                      JSn
                                                                                                      MRY


                                                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Varney did have a Berk--was one of the later locos--I think that it uses a lot of the parts
                                                                                                      form the RDG 2-8-0.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Dunno if I asked before--you must be fairly new to the Monterey area--I don't recall
                                                                                                      you at least as one of the regulars before I left--Dec. 2001. gj
                                                                                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                      > From: Jim Snyder
                                                                                                      > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                      > Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 5:22 PM
                                                                                                      > Subject: [vintageHO] Qustion, Re.: Varney 2-8-4
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > I ran into a Varney 2-8-4- looks to be a C&NW; It simply looked too GOOD. Was this
                                                                                                      a Cary
                                                                                                      > conversion? Compared to the Varney Northern, it was spectacular, with its
                                                                                                      Worthington BL
                                                                                                      > hung on the side. It had sprung drivers, etc. The running gear was positively Varney-
                                                                                                      the
                                                                                                      > V.G. and rod ass'y was very similar to those on the S.P. 2-8-0.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Thanks!
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Jim Snyder
                                                                                                      > Monterey
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
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                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1504 From: Glenn Date: 5/23/2006
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Qustion, Re.: Varney 2-8-4
                                                                                                      On3?  Marina??  I must--but can't place you--although 6'6" should stand out--I left Marina the beginning of 2002--retired Nov. 2001--lived the whole time at 304 Carmel Ave #63---had a large-scale layout in the yard--the building that is being completed will house a 1075 sq ft Mostly On3 layout.Based on Chama and Cumbres.  gj
                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                      From: Jim Snyder
                                                                                                      Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 6:10 AM
                                                                                                      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Qustion, Re.: Varney 2-8-4

                                                                                                      All depends... Are you Glenn Joesten?  If you are, then you DOknow me... I am 6'6"- we
                                                                                                      used to yak over at the club in Salinas.  I'm an On3 guy, primarily...  I now live in Marina-

                                                                                                      Thanks!

                                                                                                      JSn
                                                                                                      MRY


                                                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Varney did have a Berk--was one of the later locos--I think that it uses a lot of the parts
                                                                                                      form the RDG 2-8-0. 
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Dunno if I asked before--you must be fairly new to the Monterey area--I don't recall
                                                                                                      you at least as one of the regulars before I left--Dec. 2001.   gj
                                                                                                      >   ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                      >   From: Jim Snyder
                                                                                                      >   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                      >   Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 5:22 PM
                                                                                                      >   Subject: [vintageHO] Qustion, Re.: Varney 2-8-4
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >   I ran into a Varney 2-8-4- looks to be a C&NW;  It simply looked too GOOD.  Was this
                                                                                                      a Cary
                                                                                                      >   conversion?  Compared to the Varney Northern, it was spectacular, with its
                                                                                                      Worthington BL
                                                                                                      >   hung on the side.  It had sprung drivers, etc.  The running gear was positively Varney-
                                                                                                      the
                                                                                                      >   V.G. and rod ass'y was very similar to those on the S.P. 2-8-0.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >   Thanks!
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >   Jim Snyder
                                                                                                      >   Monterey
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
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                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1505 From: Jack Priller Date: 5/26/2006
                                                                                                      Subject: Memorial Day
                                                                                                      For those that not have heard, and those of us with short memories,
                                                                                                      at 3PM on Monday take a moment or two off from whatever you are doing
                                                                                                      to remember and thank all the self-less men and women who made the
                                                                                                      ultimate sacrifice so that we could continue enjoying our many
                                                                                                      freedoms.

                                                                                                      Jack Priller
                                                                                                      ex-USN
                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1506 From: Don Dellmann Date: 5/26/2006
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Memorial Day
                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                      From: Jack Priller <westpac67@...>
                                                                                                      To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                      Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 10:40 PM
                                                                                                      Subject: [vintageHO] Memorial Day


                                                                                                      > For those that not have heard, and those of us with short memories,
                                                                                                      > at 3PM on Monday take a moment or two off from whatever you are doing
                                                                                                      > to remember and thank all the self-less men and women who made the
                                                                                                      > ultimate sacrifice so that we could continue enjoying our many
                                                                                                      > freedoms.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Jack Priller
                                                                                                      > ex-USN

                                                                                                      We will.

                                                                                                      Don

                                                                                                      don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                      http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                      moderator: WisModelersAid@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                      moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
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                                                                                                      co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1507 From: John Barlow Date: 5/27/2006
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Memorial Day
                                                                                                      Dear Jack,
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      As a Viertnam Vet, I second your thought. I have a personal Memorial Day every December 19th, the day the Chinese-built 122mm rockets slammed onto Tan Son Nhut AB outside Saigon, where I was stationed. It wasn't the first time they hit; it wasn't the last. For a dumbass "butterbar", it was his (my) baptism under fire...but I wasn't packing when they hit. None of us Air Force types were, except for the Air Police.
                                                                                                      A few people, including a Vietnamese Air Force dependent family, bought it in that early morning (0300 hours) attack. I made it back.
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      John

                                                                                                      Jack Priller <westpac67@...> wrote:
                                                                                                        For those that not have heard, and those of us with short memories,
                                                                                                      at 3PM on Monday take a moment or two off from whatever you are doing
                                                                                                      to remember and thank all the self-less men and women who made the
                                                                                                      ultimate sacrifice so that we could continue enjoying our many
                                                                                                      freedoms.

                                                                                                      Jack Priller
                                                                                                      ex-USN





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                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1508 From: Jack Priller Date: 5/27/2006
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Memorial Day
                                                                                                      You can find my story at:

                                                                                                      http://www.forrestal.org/fidfacts/page13.htm

                                                                                                      Jack

                                                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@...>
                                                                                                      wrote:
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Dear Jack,
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > As a Viertnam Vet, I second your thought. I have a personal
                                                                                                      Memorial Day every December 19th, the day the Chinese-built 122mm
                                                                                                      rockets slammed onto Tan Son Nhut AB outside Saigon, where I was
                                                                                                      stationed. It wasn't the first time they hit; it wasn't the last.
                                                                                                      For a dumbass "butterbar", it was his (my) baptism under fire...but
                                                                                                      I wasn't packing when they hit. None of us Air Force types were,
                                                                                                      except for the Air Police.
                                                                                                      > A few people, including a Vietnamese Air Force dependent family,
                                                                                                      bought it in that early morning (0300 hours) attack. I made it back.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > John
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Jack Priller <westpac67@...> wrote:
                                                                                                      > For those that not have heard, and those of us with short
                                                                                                      memories,
                                                                                                      > at 3PM on Monday take a moment or two off from whatever you are
                                                                                                      doing
                                                                                                      > to remember and thank all the self-less men and women who made the
                                                                                                      > ultimate sacrifice so that we could continue enjoying our many
                                                                                                      > freedoms.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Jack Priller
                                                                                                      > ex-USN
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > SPONSORED LINKS
                                                                                                      > Ho scale G scale model train G scale train Ho
                                                                                                      scale model train Ho scale trains
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                      > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Visit your group "vintageHO" on the web.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                      > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                      Service.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
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                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1509 From: Dave Slater Date: 5/27/2006
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Memorial Day
                                                                                                      Jack,
                                                                                                      That's an incredible story, especially the part about the man "tossing" the bomb over the side. I do believe it though as I have seen first hand what an "adrenalin rush" can do to a person.
                                                                                                      Once again a big Thank You to all service men and women who are currently or have in the past done their share of keeping North America free.
                                                                                                      Dave S.

                                                                                                      Jack Priller wrote:
                                                                                                        You can find my story at:

                                                                                                         http://www.forrestal.org/fidfacts/page13.htm

                                                                                                      Jack

                                                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@...>
                                                                                                      wrote:
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Dear Jack,
                                                                                                      >   
                                                                                                      >   As a Viertnam Vet, I second your thought. I have a personal
                                                                                                      Memorial Day every December 19th, the day the Chinese-built 122mm
                                                                                                      rockets slammed onto Tan Son Nhut AB outside Saigon, where I was
                                                                                                      stationed. It wasn't the first time they hit; it wasn't the last.
                                                                                                      For a dumbass "butterbar", it was his (my) baptism under fire...but
                                                                                                      I wasn't packing when they hit. None of us Air Force types were,
                                                                                                      except for the Air Police.
                                                                                                      >   A few people, including a Vietnamese Air Force dependent family,
                                                                                                      bought it in that early morning (0300 hours) attack. I made it back.
                                                                                                      >   
                                                                                                      >   John
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Jack Priller <westpac67@...> wrote:
                                                                                                      >     For those that not have heard, and those of us with short
                                                                                                      memories,
                                                                                                      > at 3PM on Monday take a moment or two off from whatever you are
                                                                                                      doing
                                                                                                      > to remember and thank all the self-less men and women who made the
                                                                                                      > ultimate sacrifice so that we could continue enjoying our many
                                                                                                      > freedoms.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Jack Priller
                                                                                                      > ex-USN
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >   SPONSORED LINKS
                                                                                                      >         Ho scale   G scale model train   G scale train     Ho
                                                                                                      scale model train   Ho scale trains
                                                                                                      >    
                                                                                                      > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                      >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >    
                                                                                                      >     Visit your group "vintageHO" on the web.
                                                                                                      >    
                                                                                                      >     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                      vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                      >    
                                                                                                      >     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                      Service.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >    
                                                                                                      > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                      >  
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >            
                                                                                                      > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                      > How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low  PC-to-Phone
                                                                                                      call rates.
                                                                                                      >






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                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1510 From: Garry Spear Date: 5/28/2006
                                                                                                      Subject: For Sale HO & More - Help Wanted on Takiado Set
                                                                                                      At: http://users.rcn.com/gspear/VHO.htm

                                                                                                      is my current pile of .... for sale items.

                                                                                                      Some older Kurtz Kraft Kits, Kurtz Kraft cars and parts, TYCO metal
                                                                                                      Baldwin Sharknose bodies, a Gem Brass PRR N2 steam engine, and a
                                                                                                      Trains Inc. Takiado Hi-Speed Line three car set.

                                                                                                      As before I'm flexible (somewhat) on my prices and shipping. I'm
                                                                                                      selling the Takiado set for a friend. We are guessing at the price.
                                                                                                      I would apprecriate any and all help point to a pricing guide for this
                                                                                                      set. I don't see any information in Brown's book.

                                                                                                      Garry Spear
                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1511 From: Gerry D Date: 5/29/2006
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: For Sale HO & More - Help Wanted on Takiado Set
                                                                                                      Garry,
                                                                                                      I'll take the sharks at the asking price if no-one
                                                                                                      else spoke for them or if you're not doing an auction
                                                                                                      on them. I need another A unit to go with the A-B set
                                                                                                      I have,
                                                                                                      http://mysite.verizon.net/gerardpd/sharks/index.html

                                                                                                      You can reply to me off-list and we'll sort out the
                                                                                                      details. Best address to start is gerard_sr at
                                                                                                      yahoo.com.
                                                                                                      Gerry

                                                                                                      --- Garry Spear <garrettspear@...> wrote:

                                                                                                      > At: http://users.rcn.com/gspear/VHO.htm
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > is my current pile of .... for sale items.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Some older Kurtz Kraft Kits, Kurtz Kraft cars and
                                                                                                      > parts, TYCO metal
                                                                                                      > Baldwin Sharknose bodies, a Gem Brass PRR N2 steam
                                                                                                      > engine, and a
                                                                                                      > Trains Inc. Takiado Hi-Speed Line three car set.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > As before I'm flexible (somewhat) on my prices and
                                                                                                      > shipping. I'm
                                                                                                      > selling the Takiado set for a friend. We are
                                                                                                      > guessing at the price.
                                                                                                      > I would apprecriate any and all help point to a
                                                                                                      > pricing guide for this
                                                                                                      > set. I don't see any information in Brown's book.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Garry Spear
                                                                                                      >


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                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1512 From: Garry Spear Date: 6/1/2006
                                                                                                      Subject: FS: Laconia Billboard Reefer Kits
                                                                                                      I have added some Laconia and one A-C billboard reefer kist to my for sale page.

                                                                                                      http://users.rcn.com/gspear/VHO.htm

                                                                                                      Garry Spear
                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1513 From: fisty_n_joe Date: 6/4/2006
                                                                                                      Subject: Old Trains, Seeing the G-D
                                                                                                      I'm new here- I am a recent convert to older models. I had seen a guy on eBay with a
                                                                                                      bunch of English, Mantua and Varney for sale- and I was intrigued. Then, a few things
                                                                                                      happened.

                                                                                                      I stopped in to visit the Salinas (CA) M. R. Club a couple weeks ago. They have an exhibit
                                                                                                      of Gorre & Daphetid survivors. Some club members are 'GD Operators' and bought John
                                                                                                      Allen's house after the fire. And, actually, there was quite a bit that was salvaged. The
                                                                                                      most-recognizeable model was the orange combine that the 4-4-0 hauled around. Is that
                                                                                                      a Binkley? Or an Ambroid? The model is in good shape- I have always liked it... Another
                                                                                                      interesting item was John Allen's choice of Baker couplers; they're butt-ugly, and, given
                                                                                                      the man's penchant for prototypical... everthing- it's surprising that he never did convert
                                                                                                      to a better-looking coupler.

                                                                                                      Living in Monterey, I have met a number of 'The Operators'- interesting group. I wish I
                                                                                                      could have seen the railroad...

                                                                                                      I noodle around a lot- I own, probably- 50 brass engines, collected over the past five
                                                                                                      years or so. I have always liked the S.P.- But then I bought a bunch of old magazines. I
                                                                                                      noticed that a lot of people still are using things like MDC 0-6-0s and other die cast
                                                                                                      engines. Then I ran into another guy- he had been modeling mostly "O" narrow gauge
                                                                                                      (must have $50k in On3 brass!)- and then he bought a bunch of old trains ata flea market.
                                                                                                      Now, he's- at least for the moment- modeling in HO scale. Builds structures from scratch,
                                                                                                      but his trains are all HO and all old. All of a sudden, I was hooked. I went to eBay and
                                                                                                      found a Varney Super Pacific and an Roundhouse0-6-0. Then I found an Ol' Lady 2-8-0
                                                                                                      by Varney...and I'm in the S.P. business again!

                                                                                                      I found that I like the older stuff. I like reading about the guys in the '50s and '60s.
                                                                                                      George Allen's TUXEDO JCT. series in MR(1954) is among the best ever done. These guys
                                                                                                      had a choice of maybe a dozen engines to choose from! There was quite a bit of S.P. done
                                                                                                      in the '50s and '60s. With the NYC and PRR, the Southern Pacific was almost as popular;
                                                                                                      Varney, of course, made many S.P. prototype locos. They even switched over their 2-8-0
                                                                                                      from a Reading proto. to the "OldLady" style(Using a 4-6-0 boiler).So it's all good!

                                                                                                      Point of interest: (related to the G&D) John Allen's famous #34 4-10-0 was a Varney
                                                                                                      Reading 2-8-0 with a new frame and smaller drivers. Looking back, I had no idea that he
                                                                                                      had so many older non-brass locos on his roster. He even had a $2.00 plastic HObbyline
                                                                                                      NKP Berkshire kit running on a scratchbuilt chassis as #42, I believe.

                                                                                                      Anyway, Thanks for the time,
                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1514 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 6/4/2006
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Old Trains, Seeing the G-D
                                                                                                      If you like the Gorre & Daphetid, you might want to join the Yahoo GandD group which focuses on only the G&D and John Allen.
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      Also, if you haven't found it already, be sure to check out www.gdlines.com which is a website devoted to the G&D and John Allen.
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      This site has a huge number of photos, many never before seen and found by the folks now living in the house, as well as John Allen related magazine articles and advertising.
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      A CD is also offered on this site.  It is volume 1 and was very recently released.  More volumes are planned.
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      Chuck Kinzer
                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                      Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 10:43 AM
                                                                                                      Subject: [vintageHO] Old Trains, Seeing the G-D


                                                                                                      I'm new here- I am a recent convert to older models.  I had seen a guy on eBay with a
                                                                                                      bunch of English, Mantua and Varney for sale- and I was intrigued.  Then, a few things
                                                                                                      happened.

                                                                                                      I stopped in to visit the Salinas (CA) M. R. Club a couple weeks ago.  They have an exhibit
                                                                                                      of Gorre & Daphetid survivors.  Some club members are 'GD Operators' and bought John
                                                                                                      Allen's house after the fire.  And, actually, there was quite a bit that was salvaged.  The
                                                                                                      most-recognizeable model was the orange combine that the 4-4-0 hauled around.  Is that
                                                                                                      a Binkley? Or an Ambroid?  The model is in good shape- I have always liked it... Another
                                                                                                      interesting item was John Allen's choice of Baker couplers; they're butt-ugly, and, given
                                                                                                      the man's penchant for prototypical... everthing- it's surprising that he never did convert
                                                                                                      to a better-looking coupler.

                                                                                                      Living in Monterey, I have met a number of 'The Operators'-  interesting group.  I wish I
                                                                                                      could have seen the railroad...

                                                                                                      I noodle around a lot- I own, probably- 50 brass engines, collected over the past five
                                                                                                      years or so.  I have always liked the S.P.- But then I bought a bunch of old magazines.  I
                                                                                                      noticed that a lot of people still are using things like MDC 0-6-0s and other die cast
                                                                                                      engines.  Then I ran into another guy- he had been modeling mostly "O" narrow gauge
                                                                                                      (must have $50k in On3 brass!)- and then he bought a bunch of old trains ata flea market. 
                                                                                                      Now, he's- at least for the moment- modeling in HO scale.  Builds structures from scratch,
                                                                                                      but his trains are all HO and all old.  All of a sudden, I was hooked.  I went to eBay and
                                                                                                      found a Varney Super Pacific and an Roundhouse0-6-0.  Then I found an Ol' Lady 2-8-0
                                                                                                      by Varney...and I'm in the S.P. business again!

                                                                                                      I found that I like the older stuff.  I like reading about the guys in the '50s and '60s.
                                                                                                      George Allen's TUXEDO JCT. series in MR(1954) is among the best ever done.  These guys
                                                                                                      had a choice of maybe a dozen engines to choose from!  There was quite a bit of S.P. done
                                                                                                      in the '50s and '60s.  With the NYC and PRR, the Southern Pacific was almost as popular;
                                                                                                      Varney, of course, made many S.P. prototype locos.  They even switched over their 2-8-0
                                                                                                      from a Reading proto. to the "OldLady" style(Using a 4-6-0 boiler).So it's all good!

                                                                                                      Point of interest: (related to the G&D) John Allen's famous #34 4-10-0 was a Varney
                                                                                                      Reading 2-8-0 with a new frame and smaller drivers.  Looking back, I had no idea that he
                                                                                                      had so many older non-brass locos on his roster.  He even had a $2.00 plastic HObbyline
                                                                                                      NKP Berkshire kit running on a scratchbuilt chassis as #42, I believe.

                                                                                                      Anyway, Thanks for the time,

                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1515 From: Glenn Date: 6/4/2006
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Old Trains, Seeing the G-D
                                                                                                      Hi, fnj--I'm a former Monterey guy--one of John Allen's operators--aand a charter member of the Salinas club--when it was at the RMC Lonestar sand plant north of Marina. I have quite a collection of old Mantua and MDC equipment--examples of most models, including a 1948 MDC switcher still in the kit packaging. My main focus, though, is On3---and could be the one you're referring to, except that I left when I retired form the County the end of 2001. 
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      As to that Berk on the G&D, I think it had a commercial chassis--John admitted to not being much of a mechanic.  There were 2 or 3 drives available for that HObbyline loco.
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      Actually, it wasn't "some club members who bought the house after the fire".  Neighbor Paul Beard bought it, repaired it, and then turned it over to his son Keith--who has been posting the pictures to the G&D Yahoo site. I don't think Keith was interested in MR until recently.  His brother Kim was also a charter member of the club at the sand plant, and a regular attendee of the G&D Operators' tuesday night gatherings, several years after the fire.
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      Glenn Joesten
                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                      Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 10:43 AM
                                                                                                      Subject: [vintageHO] Old Trains, Seeing the G-D


                                                                                                      I'm new here- I am a recent convert to older models.  I had seen a guy on eBay with a
                                                                                                      bunch of English, Mantua and Varney for sale- and I was intrigued.  Then, a few things
                                                                                                      happened.

                                                                                                      I stopped in to visit the Salinas (CA) M. R. Club a couple weeks ago.  They have an exhibit
                                                                                                      of Gorre & Daphetid survivors.  Some club members are 'GD Operators' and bought John
                                                                                                      Allen's house after the fire.  And, actually, there was quite a bit that was salvaged.  The
                                                                                                      most-recognizeable model was the orange combine that the 4-4-0 hauled around.  Is that
                                                                                                      a Binkley? Or an Ambroid?  The model is in good shape- I have always liked it... Another
                                                                                                      interesting item was John Allen's choice of Baker couplers; they're butt-ugly, and, given
                                                                                                      the man's penchant for prototypical... everthing- it's surprising that he never did convert
                                                                                                      to a better-looking coupler.

                                                                                                      Living in Monterey, I have met a number of 'The Operators'-  interesting group.  I wish I
                                                                                                      could have seen the railroad...

                                                                                                      I noodle around a lot- I own, probably- 50 brass engines, collected over the past five
                                                                                                      years or so.  I have always liked the S.P.- But then I bought a bunch of old magazines.  I
                                                                                                      noticed that a lot of people still are using things like MDC 0-6-0s and other die cast
                                                                                                      engines.  Then I ran into another guy- he had been modeling mostly "O" narrow gauge
                                                                                                      (must have $50k in On3 brass!)- and then he bought a bunch of old trains ata flea market. 
                                                                                                      Now, he's- at least for the moment- modeling in HO scale.  Builds structures from scratch,
                                                                                                      but his trains are all HO and all old.  All of a sudden, I was hooked.  I went to eBay and
                                                                                                      found a Varney Super Pacific and an Roundhouse0-6-0.  Then I found an Ol' Lady 2-8-0
                                                                                                      by Varney...and I'm in the S.P. business again!

                                                                                                      I found that I like the older stuff.  I like reading about the guys in the '50s and '60s.
                                                                                                      George Allen's TUXEDO JCT. series in MR(1954) is among the best ever done.  These guys
                                                                                                      had a choice of maybe a dozen engines to choose from!  There was quite a bit of S.P. done
                                                                                                      in the '50s and '60s.  With the NYC and PRR, the Southern Pacific was almost as popular;
                                                                                                      Varney, of course, made many S.P. prototype locos.  They even switched over their 2-8-0
                                                                                                      from a Reading proto. to the "OldLady" style(Using a 4-6-0 boiler).So it's all good!

                                                                                                      Point of interest: (related to the G&D) John Allen's famous #34 4-10-0 was a Varney
                                                                                                      Reading 2-8-0 with a new frame and smaller drivers.  Looking back, I had no idea that he
                                                                                                      had so many older non-brass locos on his roster.  He even had a $2.00 plastic HObbyline
                                                                                                      NKP Berkshire kit running on a scratchbuilt chassis as #42, I believe.

                                                                                                      Anyway, Thanks for the time,






                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1516 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 6/10/2006
                                                                                                      Subject: Fwd: WS Newsletter (Vol. 2 No. 20)
                                                                                                      Attachments :


                                                                                                        Note: forwarded message attached.

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                                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1517 From: Don Dellmann Date: 6/11/2006
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [MRPics] Fwd: WS Newsletter (Vol. 2 No. 20)
                                                                                                        I let this go through, even though it's technically off topic, mainly to see
                                                                                                        if you, the members, are interested in this kind of thing.

                                                                                                        Let me know.

                                                                                                        Don

                                                                                                        don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                        http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                        moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                        moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                        co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO

                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                        From: Raymond Lorts Sr <RaymondLorts@...>
                                                                                                        To: <vintageho@yahoogroups.com>; Chuck Walters <tautemarite2@...>;
                                                                                                        <militaryrails@yahoogroups.com>;
                                                                                                        <modelling-railways-of-war@yahoogroups.com>; <mrpics@yahoogroups.com>; Gary
                                                                                                        Slaven <gary.slaven@...>; <gn-rwy@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                        Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2006 1:24 AM
                                                                                                        Subject: [MRPics] Fwd: WS Newsletter (Vol. 2 No. 20)


                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Note: forwarded message attached.
                                                                                                        > __________________________________________________
                                                                                                        > Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                                        > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                                                                        > http://mail.yahoo.com
                                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1518 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 6/11/2006
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [MRPics] Fwd: WS Newsletter (Vol. 2 No. 20)

                                                                                                        It does not bother me.  I found the live steam activity on the NW area interesting; lucky guys up there!!    Jerry Garteiser

                                                                                                         


                                                                                                        From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann
                                                                                                        Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2006 10:09 PM
                                                                                                        To: MRPics@yahoogroups.com; vintageho@yahoogroups.com; Chuck Walters; militaryrails@yahoogroups.com; modelling-railways-of-war@yahoogroups.com; Gary Slaven; gn-rwy@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                        Subject: [vintageHO] Re: [MRPics] Fwd: WS Newsletter (Vol. 2 No. 20)

                                                                                                         

                                                                                                        I let this go through, even though it's technically off topic, mainly to see
                                                                                                        if you, the members, are interested in this kind of thing.

                                                                                                        Let me know.

                                                                                                        Don

                                                                                                        don.dellmann@ prodigy.net
                                                                                                        http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                                                                                        moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups. com
                                                                                                        moderator: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                                                        co-moderator: SCENERY@Yahoogroups .com
                                                                                                        http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                                                                                        http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO

                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                        From: Raymond Lorts Sr <RaymondLorts@ yahoo.com>
                                                                                                        To: <vintageho@yahoogrou ps.com>; Chuck Walters <tautemarite2@ yahoo.com>;
                                                                                                        <militaryrails@ yahoogroups. com>;
                                                                                                        <modelling-railways- of-war@yahoogrou ps.com>; <mrpics@yahoogroups. com>; Gary
                                                                                                        Slaven <gary.slaven@ med.va.gov>; <gn-rwy@yahoogroups. com>
                                                                                                        Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2006 1:24 AM
                                                                                                        Subject: [MRPics] Fwd: WS Newsletter (Vol. 2 No. 20)

                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Note: forwarded message attached.
                                                                                                        > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                                                                                                        > Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                                        > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                                                                        > http://mail. yahoo.com

                                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1519 From: Robert K Nielsen Date: 6/11/2006
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Fwd: WS Newsletter (Vol. 2 No. 20)
                                                                                                        I don't mind it as I lived in/around Portland about 10 years ago.  It makes me wish I was there now especially for the shows this weekend.
                                                                                                        Rob, KC7WVN
                                                                                                        Cobalt Creek and Western
                                                                                                        RK Industries
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                         <snip>
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1520 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 6/13/2006
                                                                                                        Subject: Yahoo users, go here and check it out, not kidding - ! ! !
                                                                                                        I am sending this to all my Yahoo-using friends, as it seems only to affect you.

                                                                                                        There seems to be a new worm/virus that is capable of infecting through your yahoo mail, and all you have to do is open it.
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        It may be from someone you know, as well.
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Here is AVG's report on it:
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        __________________________________________________
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        best to all of you
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Fred

                                                                                                        __________________________________________________
                                                                                                        Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                                        Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                                                                        http://mail.yahoo.com

                                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1521 From: Don Dellmann Date: 6/18/2006
                                                                                                        Subject: Fw: inquiry
                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                        From: Glenn <glenn476@...>
                                                                                                        To: vintageHO Moderator <vintageHO-owner@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                        Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 2:24 AM
                                                                                                        Subject: inquiry


                                                                                                        I recently purchased three Mantua old time passenger cars on eBay. The cars
                                                                                                        are marked on the boxes as "OO Scale", and in fact the trucks are so gauged.
                                                                                                        Otherwise they are identical to the HO ones I have. Most of the Sheet metal
                                                                                                        is tin plated steel.

                                                                                                        Anyone got any ideas as to when these were made? Anyone have any other
                                                                                                        Mantua OO?

                                                                                                        Glenn Joesten
                                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1522 From: martin_lumber Date: 6/27/2006
                                                                                                        Subject: Trix Action Series ... Anybody know about them?
                                                                                                        Hi all.

                                                                                                        At a recent rummage sale, I picked up a pretty old "TRIX ACTION SERIES
                                                                                                        20T AUTOMATIC DUMP CAR WITH ACTULATOR-MADE IN ENGLAND FOR ARISTO CRAFT
                                                                                                        TRAINS". Can anybody tell me any info about them? Were there more cars
                                                                                                        to the series? I saw a listing on a model railroad web site for one of
                                                                                                        these cars, and they were selling it for $45. Is that what it's really
                                                                                                        worth?

                                                                                                        Thanks in Advance!

                                                                                                        Phil M
                                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1523 From: Graeme Date: 6/28/2006
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Trix Action Series ... Anybody know about them?
                                                                                                        In message <e7s335+9tbj@...>, martin_lumber
                                                                                                        <martin_lumber@...> writes
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >At a recent rummage sale, I picked up a pretty old "TRIX ACTION SERIES
                                                                                                        >20T AUTOMATIC DUMP CAR WITH ACTULATOR-MADE IN ENGLAND FOR ARISTO CRAFT
                                                                                                        >TRAINS". Can anybody tell me any info about them? Were there more cars
                                                                                                        >to the series? I saw a listing on a model railroad web site for one of
                                                                                                        >these cars, and they were selling it for $45. Is that what it's really
                                                                                                        >worth?

                                                                                                        There is an active Trix Twin Railway Collectors Club (TTRCA) here in the
                                                                                                        UK. Lovely picture of the Dump Car set here :

                                                                                                        http://ttrca.co.uk/zurich2005.htm

                                                                                                        The Dump Car was also available as part of a train set, which was
                                                                                                        supplied in a wooden box, and comprised loco, two dump cars and guards
                                                                                                        van (caboose), plus operating conveyor set. Pictures here :

                                                                                                        http://ttrca.co.uk/banbury2002.htm

                                                                                                        The history of Trix is complex, with both British and European Trix
                                                                                                        changing ownership on a regular basis! Further details here :

                                                                                                        http://www.trixtrains.freeserve.co.uk/index.htm

                                                                                                        http://www.trix.collector.btinternet.co.uk/index.html

                                                                                                        TTRCA home page :

                                                                                                        http://www.ttrca.co.uk/

                                                                                                        The Trix UK range was huge, mainly die cast and tinplate from early pre
                                                                                                        war days, later models being plastic, until the demise of British Trix
                                                                                                        about 35 years ago. The original series were 14v AC, switching to more
                                                                                                        conventional 12v DC in, I think, the early 60s. The selling point of
                                                                                                        Trix was two trains on one track - the track was three rail, with a
                                                                                                        Bakelite base, all three rails being insulated from one another. Two
                                                                                                        locos could be run on the same track, one picking up power from the
                                                                                                        inner rail, and one from the outer. Common return through the centre
                                                                                                        rail. All rolling stock wheels were insulated, which was unusual for
                                                                                                        three rail items at the time.
                                                                                                        --
                                                                                                        Graeme Eldred, Scotland
                                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1524 From: Philip Martin Date: 7/3/2006
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Trix Action Series ... Anybody know about them?
                                                                                                        Thanks for the info! It really helped.
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Now for the hard question. Anyone interiested in it? It's gone up for sale. $18 including shipping and Insurance.
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Phil 

                                                                                                        Graeme <yahoo@...> wrote:
                                                                                                        In message <e7s335+9tbj@ eGroups.com>, martin_lumber
                                                                                                        <martin_lumber@ yahoo.com> writes
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >At a recent rummage sale, I picked up a pretty old "TRIX ACTION SERIES
                                                                                                        >20T AUTOMATIC DUMP CAR WITH ACTULATOR-MADE IN ENGLAND FOR ARISTO CRAFT
                                                                                                        >TRAINS". Can anybody tell me any info about them? Were there more cars
                                                                                                        >to the series? I saw a listing on a model railroad web site for one of
                                                                                                        >these cars, and they were selling it for $45. Is that what it's really
                                                                                                        >worth?

                                                                                                        There is an active Trix Twin Railway Collectors Club (TTRCA) here in the
                                                                                                        UK. Lovely picture of the Dump Car set here :

                                                                                                        http://ttrca. co.uk/zurich2005 .htm

                                                                                                        The Dump Car was also available as part of a train set, which was
                                                                                                        supplied in a wooden box, and comprised loco, two dump cars and guards
                                                                                                        van (caboose), plus operating conveyor set. Pictures here :

                                                                                                        http://ttrca. co.uk/banbury200 2.htm

                                                                                                        The history of Trix is complex, with both British and European Trix
                                                                                                        changing ownership on a regular basis! Further details here :

                                                                                                        http://www.trixtrai ns.freeserve. co.uk/index. htm

                                                                                                        http://www.trix. collector. btinternet. co.uk/index. html

                                                                                                        TTRCA home page :

                                                                                                        http://www.ttrca. co.uk/

                                                                                                        The Trix UK range was huge, mainly die cast and tinplate from early pre
                                                                                                        war days, later models being plastic, until the demise of British Trix
                                                                                                        about 35 years ago. The original series were 14v AC, switching to more
                                                                                                        conventional 12v DC in, I think, the early 60s. The selling point of
                                                                                                        Trix was two trains on one track - the track was three rail, with a
                                                                                                        Bakelite base, all three rails being insulated from one another. Two
                                                                                                        locos could be run on the same track, one picking up power from the
                                                                                                        inner rail, and one from the outer. Common return through the centre
                                                                                                        rail. All rolling stock wheels were insulated, which was unusual for
                                                                                                        three rail items at the time.
                                                                                                        --
                                                                                                        Graeme Eldred, Scotland


                                                                                                        Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                        Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta.

                                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1525 From: kilbeggan68 Date: 7/4/2006
                                                                                                        Subject: 4-4-0 American
                                                                                                        Does anyone know of a manufacturer or even a model of the civil war
                                                                                                        era wood burners?Would like to make a period layout and am looking for
                                                                                                        an HO loco/tender.Any response is appreciated.Thanks..
                                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1526 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 7/4/2006
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: 4-4-0 American
                                                                                                        I have a friend who likes these - I helped him get started with old Mantua locos.
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        While they're not being made any more, you can get parts by buying a few that don't run and the part are pretty much interchangeable. Good quality, too.
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        As to accuracy - who knows but they look great !
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        We have been mounting Kadee couplers and use Mantua rolling stock but there's good stuff available from Rivarossi(not the locos - egads they're to be avoided, just the cars - both passenger and freight).
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        A few changes of trucks(MDC had some good ones out there) and wheelsets.
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Makes a nice, reliable and long-lived model RR.
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Just my 2 cents' worth
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Fred

                                                                                                        kilbeggan68 <wedfrentz@...> wrote:
                                                                                                        Does anyone know of a manufacturer or even a model of the civil war
                                                                                                        era wood burners?Would like to make a period layout and am looking for
                                                                                                        an HO loco/tender. Any response is appreciated. Thanks..



                                                                                                        Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.

                                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1527 From: Don Dellmann Date: 7/4/2006
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: 4-4-0 American
                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                        From: kilbeggan68 <wedfrentz@...>
                                                                                                        To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                        Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 7:57 AM
                                                                                                        Subject: [vintageHO] 4-4-0 American


                                                                                                        > Does anyone know of a manufacturer or even a model of the civil war
                                                                                                        > era wood burners?Would like to make a period layout and am looking for
                                                                                                        > an HO loco/tender.Any response is appreciated.Thanks..

                                                                                                        There's always the venerable tyco/mantua model of the "General" of "Great
                                                                                                        Locomotive Chase" fame.

                                                                                                        AHM had several Virginia & Truckee locos that while a bit newer vintage
                                                                                                        (1880's) would work.

                                                                                                        I hesitate to mention them, since they're notoriously unreliable, but there
                                                                                                        are also the Bachmann models of the CP Jupiter and UP 119 "Golden spike"
                                                                                                        locomotives.

                                                                                                        Don

                                                                                                        don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                        http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                        moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                        moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                        co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1528 From: erieberk Date: 7/4/2006
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: 4-4-0 American
                                                                                                        In addition to what Don mentioned, Aristo-Craft made an HO model of
                                                                                                        the "Texas", another 4-4-0 American and a bit more recently Arbour
                                                                                                        Models made a model of a Baldwin American. Best chance for one might
                                                                                                        be on eBay. Ray


                                                                                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "kilbeggan68" <wedfrentz@...> wrote:
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Does anyone know of a manufacturer or even a model of the civil
                                                                                                        war
                                                                                                        > era wood burners?Would like to make a period layout and am looking
                                                                                                        for
                                                                                                        > an HO loco/tender.Any response is appreciated.Thanks..
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1529 From: erieberk Date: 7/4/2006
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: 4-4-0 American
                                                                                                        Oops, I thought Mantua's 4-4-0 "Belle of the Eighties" was previously
                                                                                                        mentioned along with the "General", but I see it wasn't. So here's
                                                                                                        another American-type wood burner, even if it didn't go back the the
                                                                                                        Civil War era. For that matter, the "Texas" was built in 1881, but
                                                                                                        should be close enough with modeler's license, after all they used it
                                                                                                        (with some modifications) in the Great Locomotive Chase. Ray


                                                                                                        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "kilbeggan68" <wedfrentz@...> wrote:
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Does anyone know of a manufacturer or even a model of the civil
                                                                                                        war
                                                                                                        > era wood burners?Would like to make a period layout and am looking
                                                                                                        for
                                                                                                        > an HO loco/tender.Any response is appreciated.Thanks..
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1530 From: Glenn Date: 7/4/2006
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: 4-4-0 American
                                                                                                        Closest would be the Mantua "General"--but it is modeled as it appeared some years later.  I think that one of the O Gauge Hi-Rail companies is doing one or more in Civil War era details.
                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                        Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 5:57 AM
                                                                                                        Subject: [vintageHO] 4-4-0 American

                                                                                                        Does anyone know of a manufacturer or even a model of the civil war
                                                                                                        era wood burners?Would like to make a period layout and am looking for
                                                                                                        an HO loco/tender. Any response is appreciated. Thanks..

                                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1531 From: Jack Priller Date: 7/5/2006
                                                                                                        Subject: Speaking of Civil War era
                                                                                                        In anyone is interested in civil war rolling stock, and isn't afraid
                                                                                                        of some :>)) kit-bashing/scratch-building, I have a 'picture' of an
                                                                                                        armored car from that conflict. I believe what I have is a copy of a
                                                                                                        charcoal sketch and is the only visual representation of the car still
                                                                                                        in existance.

                                                                                                        Jack Priller
                                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1532 From: Joe Melhorn Date: 7/6/2006
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Speaking of Civil War era
                                                                                                        > In anyone is interested in civil war rolling stock, and isn't afraid
                                                                                                        >of some :>)) kit-bashing/scratch-building, I have a 'picture' of an
                                                                                                        >armored car from that conflict. I believe what I have is a copy of a
                                                                                                        >charcoal sketch and is the only visual representation of the car still
                                                                                                        >in existance.

                                                                                                        A good reference book is: Civil War Railroads and Models by Edwin P.
                                                                                                        Alexander. Lots of plans for buildings, rolling stock, etc.
                                                                                                        I found my copy at abe.com.


                                                                                                        Joe Melhorn
                                                                                                        Orangevale, CA 95662 (near Sacramento)
                                                                                                        mailto:joe@...
                                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1533 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 7/8/2006
                                                                                                        Subject: Fwd: WS Newsletter (Vol. 2 No. 24)
                                                                                                        Attachments :


                                                                                                          Note: forwarded message attached.

                                                                                                          __________________________________________________
                                                                                                          Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                                          Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                                                                          http://mail.yahoo.com

                                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1534 From: frank Date: 7/9/2006
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: 4-4-0 American
                                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "kilbeggan68" <wedfrentz@...> wrote:
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Does anyone know of a manufacturer or even a model of the civil
                                                                                                          war
                                                                                                          > era wood burners?Would like to make a period layout and am looking
                                                                                                          for
                                                                                                          > an HO loco/tender.Any response is appreciated.Thanks..
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          As to old time loco's:::
                                                                                                          My Mantua Generals both older and newer are still running. Their
                                                                                                          4-6-0's are of the Civil war era. No one mentioned the eight ball,
                                                                                                          Mantua's 2-6-0 old timer. As to Poacher and later Riverrossi 4-4-0's
                                                                                                          and 2-4-0's Mine run. I have a couple of old brass 4-4-0's one is a
                                                                                                          basket case soon to run. The other a NYC 4-4-0 model of #999 the
                                                                                                          speed record holder. This is like new and runs well. Aristo Crafts
                                                                                                          (new one)CB&Q 0-4-0's are nice little locos. They are eratic at times
                                                                                                          but when clean and oiled run OK. Their 2-6-0 Thomas Rogers and 4-6-0
                                                                                                          B&O Royal Blue fit the Civil War era. Aristo's columbia 2-4-2 is a
                                                                                                          nice older loco. Their NYNH&H 2-8-0 might fit. Nahaaa! Their Bicycle
                                                                                                          4-2-4 may be a little to new to but does it look great. Can't pull
                                                                                                          much! My Bachmann 4-4-0's never ran well. IHC made their version of
                                                                                                          Poacher's 4-4-0's. Their Ok! Now one other loco comes to mind.
                                                                                                          Riverrossi's 4-6-0 the Casey Jones. With it's cressatory cab roof and
                                                                                                          nice detaling it is interesting. Aristo's brass version isn't a true
                                                                                                          HO loco more like a double O loco running on HO track. To big. I
                                                                                                          still have all this stuff except for the Thomas Rogers only the frame
                                                                                                          remains and I got rid of the Bachmann 4-4-0's. Oh my bicycle casting
                                                                                                          fell apart. Ashes to Ashes. Dust to Dust. It has returned to the
                                                                                                          earth like so many other New One Cast loco's.
                                                                                                          Good Buy for now. Frank O toptrain1
                                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1535 From: erieberk Date: 7/10/2006
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: 4-4-0 American
                                                                                                          Frank, As you point out, your Mantuas are still running, and were
                                                                                                          hard to beat for the engineering that went into their manufacture
                                                                                                          during those earlier HO years, with the possible exception of Varney
                                                                                                          (who of course also produced a "Casey Jones"). I'm not sure though,
                                                                                                          that these other early-Period models (wheel arrangements) were what
                                                                                                          the original post actually asked about, as I'm sure many of us here
                                                                                                          know about these other (and then some) models mentioned but didn't
                                                                                                          post on them, as the Subject title is 4-4-0 American. Some of these
                                                                                                          other models though were quite nicely done, and I must agree those
                                                                                                          Aristo-Craft's were pretty good runners when kept tuned up and
                                                                                                          lubed. Ray


                                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "frank" <toptrain1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "kilbeggan68" <wedfrentz@> wrote:
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > > Does anyone know of a manufacturer or even a model of the
                                                                                                          civil
                                                                                                          > war
                                                                                                          > > era wood burners?Would like to make a period layout and am
                                                                                                          looking
                                                                                                          > for
                                                                                                          > > an HO loco/tender.Any response is appreciated.Thanks..
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > As to old time loco's:::
                                                                                                          > My Mantua Generals both older and newer are still running.
                                                                                                          Their
                                                                                                          > 4-6-0's are of the Civil war era. No one mentioned the eight ball,
                                                                                                          > Mantua's 2-6-0 old timer. As to Poacher and later Riverrossi 4-4-
                                                                                                          0's
                                                                                                          > and 2-4-0's Mine run. I have a couple of old brass 4-4-0's one is a
                                                                                                          > basket case soon to run. The other a NYC 4-4-0 model of #999 the
                                                                                                          > speed record holder. This is like new and runs well. Aristo Crafts
                                                                                                          > (new one)CB&Q 0-4-0's are nice little locos. They are eratic at
                                                                                                          times
                                                                                                          > but when clean and oiled run OK. Their 2-6-0 Thomas Rogers and 4-6-
                                                                                                          0
                                                                                                          > B&O Royal Blue fit the Civil War era. Aristo's columbia 2-4-2 is a
                                                                                                          > nice older loco. Their NYNH&H 2-8-0 might fit. Nahaaa! Their
                                                                                                          Bicycle
                                                                                                          > 4-2-4 may be a little to new to but does it look great. Can't pull
                                                                                                          > much! My Bachmann 4-4-0's never ran well. IHC made their version of
                                                                                                          > Poacher's 4-4-0's. Their Ok! Now one other loco comes to mind.
                                                                                                          > Riverrossi's 4-6-0 the Casey Jones. With it's cressatory cab roof
                                                                                                          and
                                                                                                          > nice detaling it is interesting. Aristo's brass version isn't a
                                                                                                          true
                                                                                                          > HO loco more like a double O loco running on HO track. To big. I
                                                                                                          > still have all this stuff except for the Thomas Rogers only the
                                                                                                          frame
                                                                                                          > remains and I got rid of the Bachmann 4-4-0's. Oh my bicycle
                                                                                                          casting
                                                                                                          > fell apart. Ashes to Ashes. Dust to Dust. It has returned to the
                                                                                                          > earth like so many other New One Cast loco's.
                                                                                                          > Good Buy for now. Frank O toptrain1
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1536 From: erieberk Date: 7/10/2006
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Speaking of Civil War era
                                                                                                          Joe, Another good book for "Period" information by Edwin P.
                                                                                                          Alexander is "Iron Horses: American Locomotives 1829 -- 1900", which
                                                                                                          of course covers through the Civil War era. More Period modeling
                                                                                                          info is covered in David Sutton's "The Complete Book of Model
                                                                                                          Railroading", published in 1964, which covers some Aristo-Craft and
                                                                                                          Binkley, etc. engines and rolling stock, and describes in some detail
                                                                                                          the 86 mile Great Locomotive Chase of 1862. Ray


                                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Joe Melhorn <toyman@...> wrote:
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > > In anyone is interested in civil war rolling stock, and isn't
                                                                                                          afraid
                                                                                                          > >of some :>)) kit-bashing/scratch-building, I have a 'picture' of an
                                                                                                          > >armored car from that conflict. I believe what I have is a copy of
                                                                                                          a
                                                                                                          > >charcoal sketch and is the only visual representation of the car
                                                                                                          still
                                                                                                          > >in existance.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > A good reference book is: Civil War Railroads and Models by Edwin
                                                                                                          P.
                                                                                                          > Alexander. Lots of plans for buildings, rolling stock, etc.
                                                                                                          > I found my copy at abe.com.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Joe Melhorn
                                                                                                          > Orangevale, CA 95662 (near Sacramento)
                                                                                                          > mailto:joe@...
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1537 From: kilbeggan68 Date: 7/11/2006
                                                                                                          Subject: 4-4-0 AMERICAN
                                                                                                          I want to thank all of you for your responses,as I seem to have
                                                                                                          started this flurry of traffic.I love it.I am now heavily involved in
                                                                                                          researching USMRR locos made by the WM.MASON locomotive co. during the
                                                                                                          civil war,as one was named after a distant relative.Keep the posts
                                                                                                          coming.The civil war era would make a really interesting layout,I think
                                                                                                          anyway.
                                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1538 From: Randy Date: 7/14/2006
                                                                                                          Subject: Old Varney Hopper
                                                                                                          Hi

                                                                                                          I am usually lurking in the background, But thought I would post some
                                                                                                          photo's of an old Varney 2-Bay hopper kit that I have. How many
                                                                                                          remember having to cut the sides and ends out of a peice of embossed
                                                                                                          metal?

                                                                                                          Randy Jones
                                                                                                          Utah
                                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1539 From: Randy Date: 7/14/2006
                                                                                                          Subject: Old Varney Hopper
                                                                                                          Sorry I forgot, The photo's are in the Photo section under Randy's
                                                                                                          Stuff

                                                                                                          Randy Jones
                                                                                                          Utah
                                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1540 From: Don Dellmann Date: 7/14/2006
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Old Varney Hopper
                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                          From: Randy <rdj_smj@...>
                                                                                                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                          Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 10:01 PM
                                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Old Varney Hopper


                                                                                                          > Sorry I forgot, The photo's are in the Photo section under Randy's
                                                                                                          > Stuff
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Randy Jones
                                                                                                          > Utah

                                                                                                          So are we going to see pictures of it on the layout one of these days?

                                                                                                          Don

                                                                                                          don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                          http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                          moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                          moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                          co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1541 From: frank Date: 7/15/2006
                                                                                                          Subject: New album added Toptrain
                                                                                                          photos of some older HO trains
                                                                                                          toptrain
                                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1542 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 7/15/2006
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: New album added Toptrain

                                                                                                          Beautiful work!!  The CNJ mike and pacific appear to have the cast metal crossheads-meaning a couple of pretty old locomotives.  I also have one each-both power drives from the early ‘50’s (my 2nd and 3rd locomotives)- both run very well, but the paintjobs need some attention after 50 years.  With some regular cleaning and oiling, these old jewels can last for a long time!   Thanks for sharing with us.  Jerry Garteiser

                                                                                                           


                                                                                                          From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of frank
                                                                                                          Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 8:42 AM
                                                                                                          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] New album added Toptrain

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                          photos of some older HO trains
                                                                                                          toptrain

                                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1543 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 7/15/2006
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: New album added Toptrain

                                                                                                          Beautiful work!!  The CNJ mike and pacific appear to have the cast metal crossheads-meaning a couple of pretty old locomotives.  I also have one each-both power drives from the early ‘50’s (my 2nd and 3rd locomotives)- both run very well, but the paintjobs need some attention after 50 years.  With some regular cleaning and oiling, these old jewels can last for a long time!   Thanks for sharing with us.  Jerry Garteiser

                                                                                                           


                                                                                                          From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of frank
                                                                                                          Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 8:42 AM
                                                                                                          To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] New album added Toptrain

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                          photos of some older HO trains
                                                                                                          toptrain

                                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1544 From: frank Date: 7/15/2006
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: New album added Toptrain
                                                                                                          --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Garteiser" <jerryg@...>
                                                                                                          wrote:
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Beautiful work!! The CNJ mike and pacific appear to have the cast
                                                                                                          metal
                                                                                                          > crossheads-meaning a couple of pretty old locomotives. I also have
                                                                                                          one
                                                                                                          > each-both power drives from the early '50's (my 2nd and 3rd
                                                                                                          locomotives)-
                                                                                                          > both run very well, but the paintjobs need some attention after 50
                                                                                                          years.
                                                                                                          > With some regular cleaning and oiling, these old jewels can last
                                                                                                          for a long
                                                                                                          > time! Thanks for sharing with us. Jerry Garteiser

                                                                                                          I'm glad you like them. The Mike is all cast with the worm gear
                                                                                                          attached to the frame, like a low tower gear set would be. Just their
                                                                                                          is no spur gear. The worm directly turns the drive gear. With this
                                                                                                          set up installing a can motor is childs play.
                                                                                                          The pacific has the same old frame drive. It has the old rolled
                                                                                                          brass boiler with cast and brass details.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > _____
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com]
                                                                                                          On Behalf
                                                                                                          > Of frank
                                                                                                          > Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 8:42 AM
                                                                                                          > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                          > Subject: [vintageHO] New album added Toptrain
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > photos of some older HO trains
                                                                                                          > toptrain
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1545 From: frank Date: 7/15/2006
                                                                                                          Subject: More Photos Added to toptrain
                                                                                                          I added 8 more photos
                                                                                                          toptrain
                                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1546 From: Don Dellmann Date: 7/15/2006
                                                                                                          Subject: Latest aquisition
                                                                                                          Attachments :
                                                                                                            Haven't been too active lately, been busy outside, and too broke to do much
                                                                                                            shopping, but I did manage to find this month the only HObbyline freight
                                                                                                            body style I didn't have at least one example of (except the caboose since I
                                                                                                            traded mine to Roger).

                                                                                                            Lettering appears to be pad printed, and is much sharper and more opaque
                                                                                                            than most of the factory lettering I've seen before, the herald is a decal.

                                                                                                            Trucks were heavy cast with brass wheels, but didn't run too well, so I
                                                                                                            substituted Athearns with Intermountain wheelsets, and of course I had to
                                                                                                            change to Kadees.

                                                                                                            The first photo is as she came with the original trucks and HObbyline
                                                                                                            couplers.

                                                                                                            Don

                                                                                                            don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                            http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                            moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                            moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                            co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1547 From: Ray Hobin Date: 7/15/2006
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: New album added Toptrain
                                                                                                            After looking at Frank's photos especialloy of the Mantua locos forced me
                                                                                                            to dig thru old albums. I have uploaded 3 fotos which I have labeled
                                                                                                            SA&NJ-1, SA&NJ-2, and SA&NJ-3.

                                                                                                            Fotos 1 and 2 are right and left side views of a Tyco Pacific re-worked
                                                                                                            along the lines of a CNJ G3. As you can see many brass castings were added
                                                                                                            along with etched running boards, new valve gear and hanger, original
                                                                                                            drivers were replaced with 80" Bowser/PennLine , new Pittman motor and new
                                                                                                            cow catcher.

                                                                                                            SA&NJ-3 is an unknown (actually I forgot and cannot locate my records)
                                                                                                            brass 2-8-0 camelback from the 1959-1961 era. It might be an International
                                                                                                            Models import by Takara.

                                                                                                            Ray Hobin
                                                                                                            NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX
                                                                                                            Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1548 From: Roger Aultman Date: 7/15/2006
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Latest aquisition
                                                                                                            That is a nice looking hopper, I have a extra PRR caboose in a ratty
                                                                                                            box if you would like to trade it for a tank or a flat. Roger




                                                                                                            Don Dellmann wrote:
                                                                                                            > Haven't been too active lately, been busy outside, and too broke to do much
                                                                                                            > shopping, but I did manage to find this month the only HObbyline freight
                                                                                                            > body style I didn't have at least one example of (except the caboose since I
                                                                                                            > traded mine to Roger).
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Lettering appears to be pad printed, and is much sharper and more opaque
                                                                                                            > than most of the factory lettering I've seen before, the herald is a decal.
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Trucks were heavy cast with brass wheels, but didn't run too well, so I
                                                                                                            > substituted Athearns with Intermountain wheelsets, and of course I had to
                                                                                                            > change to Kadees.
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > The first photo is as she came with the original trucks and HObbyline
                                                                                                            > couplers.
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Don
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                            > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                            > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                            > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                            > co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                            >


                                                                                                            --
                                                                                                            http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

                                                                                                            Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1549 From: Don Dellmann Date: 7/15/2006
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Latest aquisition
                                                                                                            Isn't that the one you got from me in the first place? :-)

                                                                                                            No, my "standard" caboose is the Varney Bay-window.

                                                                                                            Don

                                                                                                            don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                            http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                            moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                            moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                            co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO

                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                            From: Roger Aultman <raul@...>
                                                                                                            To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                            Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 3:18 PM
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Latest aquisition


                                                                                                            > That is a nice looking hopper, I have a extra PRR caboose in a ratty
                                                                                                            > box if you would like to trade it for a tank or a flat. Roger
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Don Dellmann wrote:
                                                                                                            > > Haven't been too active lately, been busy outside, and too broke to do
                                                                                                            much
                                                                                                            > > shopping, but I did manage to find this month the only HObbyline freight
                                                                                                            > > body style I didn't have at least one example of (except the caboose
                                                                                                            since I
                                                                                                            > > traded mine to Roger).
                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                            > > Lettering appears to be pad printed, and is much sharper and more opaque
                                                                                                            > > than most of the factory lettering I've seen before, the herald is a
                                                                                                            decal.
                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                            > > Trucks were heavy cast with brass wheels, but didn't run too well, so I
                                                                                                            > > substituted Athearns with Intermountain wheelsets, and of course I had
                                                                                                            to
                                                                                                            > > change to Kadees.
                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                            > > The first photo is as she came with the original trucks and HObbyline
                                                                                                            > > couplers.
                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                            > > Don
                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                            > > don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                            > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                            > > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                            > > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                            > > co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                                            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                            > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                            > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > --
                                                                                                            > http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                                                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1550 From: Roger Aultman Date: 7/15/2006
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Latest aquisition
                                                                                                            This is another one, have one Varney bay window and am hanging on to
                                                                                                            that. Roger

                                                                                                            Don Dellmann wrote:
                                                                                                            > Isn't that the one you got from me in the first place? :-)
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > No, my "standard" caboose is the Varney Bay-window.
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Don
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                            > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                            > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                            > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                            > co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                            > From: Roger Aultman <raul@...>
                                                                                                            > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                            > Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 3:18 PM
                                                                                                            > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Latest aquisition
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >>That is a nice looking hopper, I have a extra PRR caboose in a ratty
                                                                                                            >>box if you would like to trade it for a tank or a flat. Roger
                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                            >>Don Dellmann wrote:
                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                            >>>Haven't been too active lately, been busy outside, and too broke to do
                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                            > much
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >>>shopping, but I did manage to find this month the only HObbyline freight
                                                                                                            >>>body style I didn't have at least one example of (except the caboose
                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                            > since I
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >>>traded mine to Roger).
                                                                                                            >>>
                                                                                                            >>>Lettering appears to be pad printed, and is much sharper and more opaque
                                                                                                            >>>than most of the factory lettering I've seen before, the herald is a
                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                            > decal.
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >>>Trucks were heavy cast with brass wheels, but didn't run too well, so I
                                                                                                            >>>substituted Athearns with Intermountain wheelsets, and of course I had
                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                            > to
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >>>change to Kadees.
                                                                                                            >>>
                                                                                                            >>>The first photo is as she came with the original trucks and HObbyline
                                                                                                            >>>couplers.
                                                                                                            >>>
                                                                                                            >>>Don
                                                                                                            >>>
                                                                                                            >>>don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                            >>>http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                            >>>moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                            >>>moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                            >>>co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                                            >>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                            >>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                            >>>
                                                                                                            >>>
                                                                                                            >>>
                                                                                                            >>>
                                                                                                            >>>
                                                                                                            >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                            >>>
                                                                                                            >>>
                                                                                                            >>>
                                                                                                            >>>
                                                                                                            >>>
                                                                                                            >>>
                                                                                                            >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                            >>>
                                                                                                            >>>
                                                                                                            >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                            >>>
                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                            >>--
                                                                                                            >>http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm
                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                            >>Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                                                            >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                            >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >


                                                                                                            --
                                                                                                            http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

                                                                                                            Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1551 From: Randy Date: 7/15/2006
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Old Varney Hopper
                                                                                                            It's on the list of stuff to build (along with several hundred other
                                                                                                            things)

                                                                                                            Randy

                                                                                                            > So are we going to see pictures of it on the layout one of these
                                                                                                            days?
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Don
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                            > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                            > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                            > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                            > co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1552 From: Imp Ster Date: 8/3/2006
                                                                                                            Subject: back to doing what i do best...
                                                                                                            news from the neo-con front:
                                                                                                            one less bell to answer, one less imp to fry.

                                                                                                            yes, ingrained CSX incompetance was on glaring display last Thus
                                                                                                            evening when the lightning strike (or, "lightening" as it's called in
                                                                                                            certain VRE circles)..took out signal relays along 10 miles of track
                                                                                                            with Q-Town at epicentre.
                                                                                                            (remember, cell phones are still seen as the Devils handwork around
                                                                                                            here.. so dont go lookin fer dam miracles already.)

                                                                                                            yes it was quite a cluster f*k by the time the shop closed up.
                                                                                                            pity da poor imp stuck for an hour in 95* evening heat in gridlock at
                                                                                                            the only town crossing when the marooned Amtrak clown-op inched fwd
                                                                                                            from his stop location to block the crossing where he then broke down.
                                                                                                            (no, my ride does not have AC.)

                                                                                                            so why da hell did i go back to work Friday?
                                                                                                            only to collect my Lionel coffee cup and verboten Amtrak liturature.

                                                                                                            oh well.
                                                                                                            it was grand while it lasted.

                                                                                                            but, as VRE likes to advert on their website, "railroading is an
                                                                                                            inexact science..."
                                                                                                            ..CSX of course advertises nothing but their callous disregard for
                                                                                                            the rules of engagement, whereas the USMC of course advert only
                                                                                                            phosporific regard for IsRaEls right to toast Lebanon.

                                                                                                            no, i dont belong in that place now, even if i ever did.

                                                                                                            the real news is, now i am free to focus on what i was doing best,
                                                                                                            which of course is working in the HO realm of classic architecture
                                                                                                            and sculpture.

                                                                                                            so what does this portend for Vintage HO?

                                                                                                            stay tuned...

                                                                                                            ...
                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1553 From: John Soderquist Date: 8/3/2006
                                                                                                            Subject: Rail Chief
                                                                                                            I acquired a box of Rail Chief extruded aluminum passenger cars and am
                                                                                                            looking for info. I had never heard of these. The address on the
                                                                                                            instructions is the old Webster's store in NYC. I have 7 different
                                                                                                            bodies even though only 5 are listed on the sheet. They are slab sided
                                                                                                            but with 4 belt rails, below the windows, above and below the
                                                                                                            letterboard and at the skirt. The window patterns look very
                                                                                                            prototypical so I think they were based on actual prototypes - maybe
                                                                                                            Budd cars (because of the sides, but the roof is smooth. Diecast 3
                                                                                                            piece trucks are included. Any info about these would be appreciated.
                                                                                                            Thanks, John
                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1554 From: Jack Priller Date: 8/3/2006
                                                                                                            Subject: Parts anyone?
                                                                                                            I was at my local club this evening, and during discussion with the
                                                                                                            prexy, the subject of our rather large store of obsolete parts was
                                                                                                            broached. I personally have no idea of just what we have, and probably
                                                                                                            couldn't ID a lot of it anyway. But here is the deal; send me your
                                                                                                            wish/want list with as much detail as possible. If you can scan a
                                                                                                            parts drawing for your loco/car/whatever and point out which parts you
                                                                                                            are looking for, so much the better. I'll see what I can find, with
                                                                                                            some help from more knowledgable folks than myself. Price: you pay the
                                                                                                            postage and make a donation of your own choosing to the club. Ain't
                                                                                                            nobody getting rich on this, but maybe it will help with
                                                                                                            getting/keeping some of those older trains running.

                                                                                                            Jack Priller
                                                                                                            Member in good standing
                                                                                                            Model Railroad and Historical Association of El Paso, Inc.
                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1555 From: Lennard Stewart Date: 8/11/2006
                                                                                                            Subject: Hi
                                                                                                            Hi everyone a newbie here. Lennard Stewart, Gilmer,TX
                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1556 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 8/11/2006
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Hi
                                                                                                            Hello, Lennard and welcome the vintage group.
                                                                                                             
                                                                                                            While not a very active one, it has wonderful people for members...
                                                                                                             
                                                                                                            Keep coming back!
                                                                                                             
                                                                                                            Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut)

                                                                                                            Lennard Stewart <lennard@...> wrote:
                                                                                                            Hi everyone a newbie here. Lennard Stewart, Gilmer,TX



                                                                                                            Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                            Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.

                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1557 From: jerrygart5 Date: 8/11/2006
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Hi
                                                                                                            --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Lennard Stewart <lennard@...> wrote:
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Hi everyone a newbie here. Lennard Stewart, Gilmer,TX
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            Welcome aboard! I am in the San Antonio area. With all the hot
                                                                                                            weather, a good excuse to stay inside with the A/C pumping out some
                                                                                                            cold air and a vintage train to enjoy. A lot of varied interests in
                                                                                                            the group-as well as a lot of experience and knowledge. Get on line
                                                                                                            with us for answwers to your model R R questions anytime! Regards,
                                                                                                            Jerry Garteiser
                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1558 From: tinplatetony Date: 8/14/2006
                                                                                                            Subject: Advice on 1950's / 60's American HO kits wanted (in the UK)
                                                                                                            Sorry for the global posting but I have acquired a quantity of kits
                                                                                                            and kitbuilt HO stock all of USA or Canadian Railroads and dating
                                                                                                            from the 50's and 60's. I would appreciate it if possible a UK based
                                                                                                            person could contatc me off list with advice. They include Athearn,
                                                                                                            Roundhouse, Varney, Rivarossi etc etc. Some Tinplate, some wood,
                                                                                                            some boxed, but most are not in original boxes but custom made
                                                                                                            cardboard storage boxes.

                                                                                                            Many Thanks

                                                                                                            Tony Penn
                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1559 From: frank Date: 8/19/2006
                                                                                                            Subject: Toptrain here! New Photo album
                                                                                                            I put 12 photos of old 40's and 50's freight cars and a Hobbyline
                                                                                                            diesel in Old stuss 2 album.
                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1560 From: epoxy_tech Date: 8/20/2006
                                                                                                            Subject: B&LE Hopper
                                                                                                            Hello: I recently purchased a four bay offset hopper marked for the
                                                                                                            B&LE with road number 76064. This hopper was an Athearn blank cat. #
                                                                                                            1749 that was apparently custom painted for the B&LE. The graphics were
                                                                                                            pad printed, not decalled. No end numbers but otherwise a fine printing
                                                                                                            job. I don't think a four bay offset is prototypically correct
                                                                                                            according to my 1947 ORER. I also don't see the economic sense of pad
                                                                                                            printing a run of cars that were not closer to the prototype.
                                                                                                            Especially since the three bay has always been available from MDC.
                                                                                                            Anyone have any ideas where this car came from?
                                                                                                            Regards, Al Campbell
                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1561 From: John Soderquist Date: 8/21/2006
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: B&LE Hopper
                                                                                                            If it is boxcar red, it is probably Bevbel 1453(I can't confirm the
                                                                                                            car number from my records) Bevbel made a lot of money doing Athearn
                                                                                                            cars with schemes not available elsewhere. By the way, Irv Belkin
                                                                                                            (Bevbel) was a good friend of Irv Athearn.
                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1562 From: madchemep2@aol.com Date: 8/22/2006
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: B&LE Hopper
                                                                                                            Hello John: Thanks for the help on this hopper. Digging around in my Bev-Bel listing I did find the road number confirming that it was a Bev-Bel. However, this car is a deep rich brown even darker than a B&LE car would be. In any case, it looks like I can close the book on this one. Regards Al
                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1563 From: vintage_thomas_trains Date: 8/22/2006
                                                                                                            Subject: Thomas Industries tank cars
                                                                                                            Hello All - I posted my last Thomas tank car to the album Vintage
                                                                                                            Thomas. I have 6 of the 11 Thomas made, and i'm tracking down an
                                                                                                            unbuilt Philgas. I missed out on a Baker's Chocolate on ebay. This one
                                                                                                            seems to be one of the more difficult to track down. If any of the
                                                                                                            member's here have that one, or the Sinclair, Mathieson or Columbia
                                                                                                            southern (in the Black & White scheme), please drop me a line.
                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1564 From: Garry Spear Date: 8/22/2006
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Thomas Industries tank cars
                                                                                                            Hi, 

                                                                                                            Is the count of 11 the 10 different names plus two different colors (3?) for the Columbia-Southern?

                                                                                                            My Odd Columbia-Southern is Red & Black with white lettering.  I have 11 different cars with 2 different Colunbia-Southern cars.
                                                                                                             
                                                                                                            The Mathieson seems to be the hardest car to get.

                                                                                                            Garry

                                                                                                            On 8/22/06, vintage_thomas_trains <vintage_thomas_trains@...> wrote:

                                                                                                            Hello All - I posted my last Thomas tank car to the album Vintage
                                                                                                            Thomas. I have 6 of the 11 Thomas made, and i'm tracking down an
                                                                                                            unbuilt Philgas. I missed out on a Baker's Chocolate on ebay. This one
                                                                                                            seems to be one of the more difficult to track down. If any of the
                                                                                                            member's here have that one, or the Sinclair, Mathieson or Columbia
                                                                                                            southern (in the Black & White scheme), please drop me a line.


                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1565 From: Garry Spear Date: 8/23/2006
                                                                                                            Subject: FA: Vintage Kar-Line and A-C Kits on eBay
                                                                                                            Currently, I have two vintage, somewhat rare, kits on eBay.

                                                                                                            1) is a L&NE KAR-LINE boxcar kit, the only KAR-LINE kit i've ever
                                                                                                            seen, item number 150025127277. This kit features Central Valley
                                                                                                            metal trucks and metal Kadee #5s. It appears to be based on a MDC
                                                                                                            kit.

                                                                                                            2) is an old (1950s era?) cardboard side reefer. eBay item number
                                                                                                            150025120824. This is a cardboard side kit, just like older Varmey,
                                                                                                            Red Ball, or Comet. This kit does not have trucks or couplers.

                                                                                                            Thanks for your consideration.

                                                                                                            Garry Spear
                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1566 From: vintage_thomas_trains Date: 8/23/2006
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Thomas Industries tank cars
                                                                                                            My Columbia Southern is the Blue & Red with White lettering variety.
                                                                                                            There is a photo of it in the Vintage Thomas folder.

                                                                                                            My understanding was there were 10 cars, but Columbia southern came
                                                                                                            in 2 color schemes, Red & Blue and Black & White. My C-S kit has a
                                                                                                            contents sheet that refers to the Black & White scheme, but the kit
                                                                                                            was Blue & Red. I don't remember the exact wording but I can scan it
                                                                                                            and post it to the folder.

                                                                                                            1. Ambrose
                                                                                                            2. APCO
                                                                                                            3. Baker Chocolate
                                                                                                            4. Colmbia Southern
                                                                                                            5. DX Sunray
                                                                                                            6. Magnolia
                                                                                                            7. Mathieson Chemical
                                                                                                            8. Philgas
                                                                                                            9. Roma
                                                                                                            10. Sinclair

                                                                                                            10 road names, one two varieties, for a total of 11. Is my list
                                                                                                            correct?
                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1567 From: Garry Spear Date: 8/23/2006
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Thomas Industries tank cars
                                                                                                            Your List and my list agree.  Someday I'll get the two Columbia-Southern cars together and post a picture.  It's been awile sine I saw the odd color car, but I remember it as Red and Black.  Operative word is remember, and we all know how good the mind is. ??????????/

                                                                                                            Garry Spear

                                                                                                            On 8/23/06, vintage_thomas_trains <vintage_thomas_trains@...> wrote:

                                                                                                            My Columbia Southern is the Blue & Red with White lettering variety.
                                                                                                            There is a photo of it in the Vintage Thomas folder.

                                                                                                            My understanding was there were 10 cars, but Columbia southern came
                                                                                                            in 2 color schemes, Red & Blue and Black & White. My C-S kit has a
                                                                                                            contents sheet that refers to the Black & White scheme, but the kit
                                                                                                            was Blue & Red. I don't remember the exact wording but I can scan it
                                                                                                            and post it to the folder.

                                                                                                            1. Ambrose
                                                                                                            2. APCO
                                                                                                            3. Baker Chocolate
                                                                                                            4. Colmbia Southern
                                                                                                            5. DX Sunray
                                                                                                            6. Magnolia
                                                                                                            7. Mathieson Chemical
                                                                                                            8. Philgas
                                                                                                            9. Roma
                                                                                                            10. Sinclair

                                                                                                            10 road names, one two varieties, for a total of 11. Is my list
                                                                                                            correct?


                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1568 From: vintage_thomas_trains Date: 8/24/2006
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Thomas Industries tank cars
                                                                                                            Thanks for the replies; I'd like to see pics of your Thomas kits. I
                                                                                                            have seen Philgas and Baker's Chocolate on ebay, but wasn't able to
                                                                                                            get them. I have not seen the Mathieson or Sinclair. I briefly had a
                                                                                                            Varney Sinclair, but I don't collect Varney plastic cars. I have a
                                                                                                            lead on a Philgas unbuilt and I am hoping to pick that one up soon.
                                                                                                            You have been a great help, would like to ask you more about Thomas
                                                                                                            via email if you wouldn't mind: vintage_thomas_trains@....

                                                                                                            Thanks again
                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1569 From: Don Dellmann Date: 8/26/2006
                                                                                                            Subject: Latest finds
                                                                                                            Attachments :
                                                                                                              Newest additions to the layout isn't trains, but thank goodness the Varney
                                                                                                              collectors were asleep at the switch on this one. I've seen these go for
                                                                                                              from $ 15-20 EACH on eBay.

                                                                                                              ALL FOUR, under $8 total including shipping.

                                                                                                              Bargains are still out there.

                                                                                                              Don

                                                                                                              don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                              http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                              moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                              moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                              co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1570 From: Roger Aultman Date: 8/26/2006
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Latest finds
                                                                                                              Never seen that dump truck before, good find Don. Roger Aultman



                                                                                                              Don Dellmann wrote:
                                                                                                              > Newest additions to the layout isn't trains, but thank goodness the Varney
                                                                                                              > collectors were asleep at the switch on this one. I've seen these go for
                                                                                                              > from $ 15-20 EACH on eBay.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > ALL FOUR, under $8 total including shipping.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Bargains are still out there.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Don
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                              > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                              > moderator: MRPics@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                              > moderator: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                              > co-moderator: SCENERY@...
                                                                                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                              >


                                                                                                              --
                                                                                                              http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

                                                                                                              Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1571 From: Don Dellmann Date: 8/27/2006
                                                                                                              Subject: Test massage, helping a member
                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1572 From: Roger Aultman Date: 8/28/2006
                                                                                                              Subject: Hoibbyline Hopper
                                                                                                              Attachments :
                                                                                                                Trying to keep up with Don here, just received a MP hopper from a
                                                                                                                auction. It looks like Don's but has trucks with plastic sideframes and
                                                                                                                one piece plastic axle/wheel sets. The couplers are body mounted horn
                                                                                                                hooks. Think it is a later version. Roger Aultman



                                                                                                                --
                                                                                                                http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

                                                                                                                Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                                                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1573 From: bgramer Date: 8/28/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Test massage, helping a member
                                                                                                                Yes thanks.  This came through fine.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Maybe the problem is over with.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Now all I have to worry about is Ernesto.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Thanks.
                                                                                                                Bud
                                                                                                                Fort Myers, SouthEast Florida
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 9:45 PM
                                                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] Test massage, helping a member

                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1574 From: Garry Spear Date: 9/1/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Thomas Tank Cars - Instructions
                                                                                                                Here is a golden opportunity to get the instructions for the Thomas
                                                                                                                Baker's Chocolate tank car. The basic instructions are for a Thomas
                                                                                                                "LP" (Low Pressure) tank car and the specific details, including
                                                                                                                paint, for the Baker's car.

                                                                                                                These URLs point to large .jpg files which can be downloaded, saved,
                                                                                                                and printed.

                                                                                                                Basic LP inst.
                                                                                                                http://users.rcn.com/gspear/ThomasIns.jpg

                                                                                                                Baker's Chocolate details and Painting ins.
                                                                                                                http://users.rcn.com/gspear/ThomasBCIns.jpg

                                                                                                                Here is your chance to get these instructions.

                                                                                                                Garry Spear
                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1575 From: vintage_thomas_trains Date: 9/8/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Thomas Industries tank cars
                                                                                                                I have added my latest acquisition to the folder: a Baker's Chocolate.
                                                                                                                Only 3 more to go.

                                                                                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "vintage_thomas_trains"
                                                                                                                <vintage_thomas_trains@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > Hello All - I posted my last Thomas tank car to the album Vintage
                                                                                                                > Thomas. I have 6 of the 11 Thomas made, and i'm tracking down an
                                                                                                                > unbuilt Philgas. I missed out on a Baker's Chocolate on ebay. This
                                                                                                                one
                                                                                                                > seems to be one of the more difficult to track down. If any of the
                                                                                                                > member's here have that one, or the Sinclair, Mathieson or Columbia
                                                                                                                > southern (in the Black & White scheme), please drop me a line.
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1576 From: Jim Snyder Date: 9/16/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Info: Model Die Casting 'Harriman' 2-8-0
                                                                                                                I boughtthis oddball- I think- Consol. on eBay- it has a diecast boiler, with all kinds of brass
                                                                                                                hung on it- top[-=mtd. check valve, C.Cmpd. air pump, H'light, bell, whistle, pops,
                                                                                                                injectors... all piped very nicely. My first question is: I see photos of these kits and they have
                                                                                                                separate, plastic (it appears) cabs. 2. They also have, or appear to have, diecast frames. The
                                                                                                                model I bought has a one-piece boiler/cab and a brass channel frame. I was going to write it
                                                                                                                off as an MDC, but then I saw an old article on the Iron Wood R.R. (MR, 11/86 or 7?), and the
                                                                                                                guy, Larry Forgard, has one of the MDCs in service in his yard- and it looks exactly like mine,
                                                                                                                incl. the odd(for this engine)top-mtd. check valve. I was hoping to find a kit, build it minus
                                                                                                                the superstructure and have a reasy-detailed top end. But, cheaters never win.../ or not
                                                                                                                often, so I thought I'd see if anyone here knew anything about these models. I DO know that
                                                                                                                the MDC line has been re-tooled over the years.

                                                                                                                Thanks for any and all.

                                                                                                                Jim Snyder
                                                                                                                Monterey
                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1577 From: Glenn Date: 9/16/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Info: Model Die Casting 'Harriman' 2-8-0
                                                                                                                Jim--the brass frame could be Bowser.  About 10 to 15 years ago Allan Fenton and I liquidated an estate that had a lot of "interesting" steam locos in it that ran on HO track.  That's about as far as I would commit to them--some stranege scale if any.  But--Bowser did make frames of brass--I think channel, but possibly separate sides with spacers, 
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Most important thing is, How does it run?
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                If you can send pix--I can compare with what I have--I have both an MDC Harriman and an MDC old timer 2-8-0 from Harold Dolstad's layout. 
                                                                                                                Let me know what you have--gj
                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                From: Jim Snyder
                                                                                                                Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2006 3:23 PM
                                                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] Info: Model Die Casting 'Harriman' 2-8-0

                                                                                                                I boughtthis oddball- I think- Consol. on eBay- it has a diecast boiler, with all kinds of brass
                                                                                                                hung on it- top[-=mtd. check valve, C.Cmpd. air pump, H'light, bell, whistle, pops,
                                                                                                                injectors... all piped very nicely. My first question is: I see photos of these kits and they have
                                                                                                                separate, plastic (it appears) cabs. 2. They also have, or appear to have, diecast frames. The
                                                                                                                model I bought has a one-piece boiler/cab and a brass channel frame. I was going to write it
                                                                                                                off as an MDC, but then I saw an old article on the Iron Wood R.R. (MR, 11/86 or 7?), and the
                                                                                                                guy, Larry Forgard, has one of the MDCs in service in his yard- and it looks exactly like mine,
                                                                                                                incl. the odd(for this engine)top-mtd. check valve. I was hoping to find a kit, build it minus
                                                                                                                the superstructure and have a reasy-detailed top end. But, cheaters never win.../ or not
                                                                                                                often, so I thought I'd see if anyone here knew anything about these models. I DO know that
                                                                                                                the MDC line has been re-tooled over the years.

                                                                                                                Thanks for any and all.

                                                                                                                Jim Snyder
                                                                                                                Monterey

                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1578 From: Jack Priller Date: 9/17/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Hi-F RDC
                                                                                                                This was posted to another group. Thought that someone here just might
                                                                                                                be interested.

                                                                                                                http://tinyurl.com/mg2t2

                                                                                                                Ye Olde Trolleynut
                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1579 From: Bob B Date: 9/17/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Hi-F RDC
                                                                                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Priller" <westpac67@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > This was posted to another group. Thought that someone here just
                                                                                                                might
                                                                                                                > be interested.
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > http://tinyurl.com/mg2t2
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > Ye Olde Trolleynut
                                                                                                                >

                                                                                                                "This listing (320027022514) has been removed or is no longer
                                                                                                                available. Please make sure you entered the right item number.
                                                                                                                If the listing was removed by eBay, consider it canceled. Note:
                                                                                                                Listings that have ended more than 90 days ago will no longer appear
                                                                                                                on eBay."

                                                                                                                Bob Boudreau
                                                                                                                Canada
                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1580 From: Glenn Date: 9/17/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: find
                                                                                                                I found a set of three cars by Strombecker for the Rock Island Rocket--has scale trucks (HO) but loco body is missing. anyone interested can have it for what I paid ($6)plus postage--I recall these back in the late 1940's--one of the first HO models I built--gj
                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1581 From: Glenn Date: 9/17/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: looking 4
                                                                                                                Anyone have a set of Central Valley valve gear fot the Varney Dockside?  or a dockside with valve gear?
                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1582 From: Mike Bauers Date: 9/18/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: looking 4
                                                                                                                Bowser still makes this...........

                                                                                                                Best to ya'
                                                                                                                Mike Bauers
                                                                                                                Milwaukee Wi, USA


                                                                                                                On Sep 17, 2006, at 10:24 PM, Glenn wrote:

                                                                                                                Anyone have a set of Central Valley valve gear fot the Varney Dockside?  or a dockside with valve gear?
                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1583 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 9/18/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: looking 4

                                                                                                                You can get any part(s) you need for this loco from Bowser, including the valve gear kit.  Same goes for the 4-6-0 & 2-8-0, except for the underframe components.  Bowser makes a fabricated brass frame which is slightly different from the old Varney frame  (the old dies were bad towards the end).

                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Glenn
                                                                                                                Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 10:24 PM
                                                                                                                To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] looking 4

                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                Anyone have a set of Central Valley valve gear fot the Varney Dockside?  or a dockside with valve gear?

                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1584 From: Glenn Date: 9/18/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: looking 4
                                                                                                                thanx--will try them. 
                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 2:25 AM
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] looking 4

                                                                                                                Bowser still makes this........ ...


                                                                                                                Best to ya'
                                                                                                                Mike Bauers
                                                                                                                Milwaukee Wi, USA


                                                                                                                On Sep 17, 2006, at 10:24 PM, Glenn wrote:

                                                                                                                Anyone have a set of Central Valley valve gear fot the Varney Dockside?  or a dockside with valve gear?

                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1585 From: Glenn Date: 9/18/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: looking 4
                                                                                                                One simple Varney part I wish Bowser made--the number board sprue for the F-3.  I have several, all missing the number boards.  Should be done in clear plastic for lighting. (Or as the old Scalelite part was)
                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 8:57 AM
                                                                                                                Subject: RE: [vintageHO] looking 4

                                                                                                                You can get any part(s) you need for this loco from Bowser, including the valve gear kit.  Same goes for the 4-6-0 & 2-8-0, except for the underframe components.  Bowser makes a fabricated brass frame which is slightly different from the old Varney frame  (the old dies were bad towards the end).


                                                                                                                From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com ] On Behalf Of Glenn
                                                                                                                Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 10:24 PM
                                                                                                                To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] looking 4

                                                                                                                Anyone have a set of Central Valley valve gear fot the Varney Dockside?  or a dockside with valve gear?

                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1586 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 9/18/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: looking 4

                                                                                                                They do.  But it is a brass casting.  Cal Scale # 190-416  (which is now Bowser).  You can also get them thru Walthers or Caboose hobbies. 

                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                Precision Scale may also have some-again in brass.  I do not have their catalog to check, but they seem to produce most every sort of detail for steam and early diesel locomotives.

                                                                                                                Good luck with it!  JerryG

                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Glenn
                                                                                                                Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 5:10 PM
                                                                                                                To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] looking 4

                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                One simple Varney part I wish Bowser made--the number board sprue for the F-3.  I have several, all missing the number boards.  Should be done in clear plastic for lighting. (Or as the old Scalelite part was)

                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----

                                                                                                                Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 8:57 AM

                                                                                                                Subject: RE: [vintageHO] looking 4

                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                You can get any part(s) you need for this loco from Bowser, including the valve gear kit.  Same goes for the 4-6-0 & 2-8-0, except for the underframe components.  Bowser makes a fabricated brass frame which is slightly different from the old Varney frame  (the old dies were bad towards the end).


                                                                                                                From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com ] On Behalf Of Glenn
                                                                                                                Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 10:24 PM
                                                                                                                To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] looking 4

                                                                                                                Anyone have a set of Central Valley valve gear fot the Varney Dockside?  or a dockside with valve gear?

                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1587 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 9/18/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: looking 4

                                                                                                                They do.  But it is a brass casting.  Cal Scale # 190-416  (which is now Bowser).  You can also get them thru Walthers or Caboose hobbies. 

                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                Precision Scale may also have some-again in brass.  I do not have their catalog to check, but they seem to produce most every sort of detail for steam and early diesel locomotives.

                                                                                                                Good luck with it!  JerryG

                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Glenn
                                                                                                                Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 5:10 PM
                                                                                                                To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] looking 4

                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                One simple Varney part I wish Bowser made--the number board sprue for the F-3.  I have several, all missing the number boards.  Should be done in clear plastic for lighting. (Or as the old Scalelite part was)

                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----

                                                                                                                Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 8:57 AM

                                                                                                                Subject: RE: [vintageHO] looking 4

                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                You can get any part(s) you need for this loco from Bowser, including the valve gear kit.  Same goes for the 4-6-0 & 2-8-0, except for the underframe components.  Bowser makes a fabricated brass frame which is slightly different from the old Varney frame  (the old dies were bad towards the end).


                                                                                                                From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com ] On Behalf Of Glenn
                                                                                                                Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 10:24 PM
                                                                                                                To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] looking 4

                                                                                                                Anyone have a set of Central Valley valve gear fot the Varney Dockside?  or a dockside with valve gear?

                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1588 From: Glenn Date: 9/18/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: looking 4
                                                                                                                I've used some of those--don't fit the way the originals did--and definitely don't transmit light.
                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 5:47 PM
                                                                                                                Subject: RE: [vintageHO] looking 4

                                                                                                                They do.  But it is a brass casting.  Cal Scale # 190-416  (which is now Bowser).  You can also get them thru Walthers or Caboose hobbies. 

                                                                                                                Precision Scale may also have some-again in brass.  I do not have their catalog to check, but they seem to produce most every sort of detail for steam and early diesel locomotives.

                                                                                                                Good luck with it!  JerryG


                                                                                                                From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com ] On Behalf Of Glenn
                                                                                                                Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 5:10 PM
                                                                                                                To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] looking 4

                                                                                                                One simple Varney part I wish Bowser made--the number board sprue for the F-3.  I have several, all missing the number boards.  Should be done in clear plastic for lighting. (Or as the old Scalelite part was)

                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----

                                                                                                                Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 8:57 AM

                                                                                                                Subject: RE: [vintageHO] looking 4

                                                                                                                You can get any part(s) you need for this loco from Bowser, including the valve gear kit.  Same goes for the 4-6-0 & 2-8-0, except for the underframe components.  Bowser makes a fabricated brass frame which is slightly different from the old Varney frame  (the old dies were bad towards the end).


                                                                                                                From: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com ] On Behalf Of Glenn
                                                                                                                Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 10:24 PM
                                                                                                                To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] looking 4

                                                                                                                Anyone have a set of Central Valley valve gear fot the Varney Dockside?  or a dockside with valve gear?

                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1589 From: Mike Bauers Date: 9/19/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: looking 4
                                                                                                                You can make one-off castings with the right clay that comes with the solid-casting [2-part liquid] casting plastics like the $19 or so intro kit  from Smooth-On or Alumilite.

                                                                                                                It would be convenient if we could just buy the needed parts for the usual $3 or so a pair that similar parts seem to cost these days. For about the same cost of a few of those, you can make a whole lot more.

                                                                                                                And get them quicker than waiting for those to be put on the market.

                                                                                                                This is something I also have to make for myself. While I'm at it, I'll make some other un-obtainable, obsolete parts with the rest of the casting supplies........... like OOP Walthers old, metal Doodlebug ends, passenger car Solarium ends and passenger steps.

                                                                                                                Best to ya'
                                                                                                                Mike Bauers
                                                                                                                Milwaukee Wi, USA


                                                                                                                On Sep 18, 2006, at 5:10 PM, Glenn wrote:

                                                                                                                One simple Varney part I wish Bowser made--the number board sprue for the F-3.  I have several, all missing the number boards.  Should be done in clear plastic for lighting. (Or as the old Scalelite part was)
                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1590 From: Mike Bauers Date: 9/19/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: looking 4
                                                                                                                Well......... I forgot to mention that this will make you some masters.........

                                                                                                                You'll still have to cast some from new-final molds while using a clear casting medium.

                                                                                                                It's a pain, but it will save you months and years of hoping someone will put it on the market for you to buy.

                                                                                                                Best to ya'
                                                                                                                Mike Bauers
                                                                                                                Milwaukee Wi, USA


                                                                                                                On Sep 19, 2006, at 4:07 AM, Mike Bauers wrote:

                                                                                                                You can make one-off castings with the right clay that comes with the solid-casting [2-part liquid] casting plastics like the $19 or so intro kit  from Smooth-On or Alumilite.

                                                                                                                It would be convenient if we could just buy the needed parts for the usual $3 or so a pair that similar parts seem to cost these days. For about the same cost of a few of those, you can make a whole lot more.

                                                                                                                And get them quicker than waiting for those to be put on the market.

                                                                                                                This is something I also have to make for myself. While I'm at it, I'll make some other un-obtainable, obsolete parts with the rest of the casting supplies........... like OOP Walthers old, metal Doodlebug ends, passenger car Solarium ends and passenger steps.

                                                                                                                Best to ya'
                                                                                                                Mike Bauers
                                                                                                                Milwaukee Wi, USA


                                                                                                                On Sep 18, 2006, at 5:10 PM, Glenn wrote:

                                                                                                                One simple Varney part I wish Bowser made--the number board sprue for the F-3.  I have several, all missing the number boards.  Should be done in clear plastic for lighting. (Or as the old Scalelite part was)
                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1591 From: Stephen Lengal Date: 9/19/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Athearn Caboose Find...
                                                                                                                Hello... I am new to this group, but I had been searching for it quite
                                                                                                                some time. I was misinformed... thinking it was a website, I did not
                                                                                                                know that it was a group. I am also a member of the Athearn Collectors
                                                                                                                Group... and I recognized some of the names at this group as being
                                                                                                                members of that group as well... ANYWAY... this past weekend, I was at
                                                                                                                a Train Show in Southern California, and found some 34' Standard
                                                                                                                Caboose Shells that were definitely Athearns, but were slightly
                                                                                                                different than the norm. They were decorated for Southern Pacific,and
                                                                                                                they carried the same number as the vintage production run, 1177, but
                                                                                                                were painted red... and had an additional bit of lettering in the
                                                                                                                bottom right hand corner on each side that read: VITA TOY SPECIAL. The
                                                                                                                lettering blends in very well and definitely has the look as though it
                                                                                                                was printed at the same time as the rest of the car... not like it was
                                                                                                                added afterwards. I'm assuming this is an old Special Run, I was
                                                                                                                hoping that maybe someone out there could shed some light on its
                                                                                                                origin. Thanks!

                                                                                                                I don't consider myself a collector... but I have a large collection
                                                                                                                of Vintage HO. Varney, Hobbytown, Lindsay, Hobbyline, Athearn... I
                                                                                                                have a treasure trove of parts and a network of friends that supply me
                                                                                                                with information and the occasional surprise piece, or... pieces of
                                                                                                                pieces. I hope that my membership in this group can be mutually
                                                                                                                beneficial. Thanks!
                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1592 From: Glenn Date: 9/19/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: looking 4
                                                                                                                thanx
                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 2:43 AM
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] looking 4

                                                                                                                Well........ . I forgot to mention that this will make you some masters..... ....


                                                                                                                You'll still have to cast some from new-final molds while using a clear casting medium.

                                                                                                                It's a pain, but it will save you months and years of hoping someone will put it on the market for you to buy.

                                                                                                                Best to ya'
                                                                                                                Mike Bauers
                                                                                                                Milwaukee Wi, USA


                                                                                                                On Sep 19, 2006, at 4:07 AM, Mike Bauers wrote:

                                                                                                                You can make one-off castings with the right clay that comes with the solid-casting [2-part liquid] casting plastics like the $19 or so intro kit  from Smooth-On or Alumilite.

                                                                                                                It would be convenient if we could just buy the needed parts for the usual $3 or so a pair that similar parts seem to cost these days. For about the same cost of a few of those, you can make a whole lot more.

                                                                                                                And get them quicker than waiting for those to be put on the market.

                                                                                                                This is something I also have to make for myself. While I'm at it, I'll make some other un-obtainable,  obsolete parts with the rest of the casting supplies.... ....... like OOP Walthers old, metal Doodlebug ends, passenger car Solarium ends and passenger steps.

                                                                                                                Best to ya'
                                                                                                                Mike Bauers
                                                                                                                Milwaukee Wi, USA


                                                                                                                On Sep 18, 2006, at 5:10 PM, Glenn wrote:

                                                                                                                One simple Varney part I wish Bowser made--the number board sprue for the F-3.  I have several, all missing the number boards.  Should be done in clear plastic for lighting. (Or as the old Scalelite part was)

                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1593 From: Glenn Date: 9/19/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: looking 4
                                                                                                                Re: the Walthers car parts--did anyone buy the HO line? I know that Keil Line has the O Scale parts.
                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 2:07 AM
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] looking 4

                                                                                                                You can make one-off castings with the right clay that comes with the solid-casting [2-part liquid] casting plastics like the $19 or so intro kit  from Smooth-On or Alumilite.

                                                                                                                It would be convenient if we could just buy the needed parts for the usual $3 or so a pair that similar parts seem to cost these days. For about the same cost of a few of those, you can make a whole lot more.

                                                                                                                And get them quicker than waiting for those to be put on the market.

                                                                                                                This is something I also have to make for myself. While I'm at it, I'll make some other un-obtainable,  obsolete parts with the rest of the casting supplies.... ....... like OOP Walthers old, metal Doodlebug ends, passenger car Solarium ends and passenger steps.

                                                                                                                Best to ya'
                                                                                                                Mike Bauers
                                                                                                                Milwaukee Wi, USA


                                                                                                                On Sep 18, 2006, at 5:10 PM, Glenn wrote:

                                                                                                                One simple Varney part I wish Bowser made--the number board sprue for the F-3.  I have several, all missing the number boards.  Should be done in clear plastic for lighting. (Or as the old Scalelite part was)

                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1594 From: Mike Bauers Date: 9/20/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: looking 4
                                                                                                                It would be just as easy to make new masters with better details and modern materials.

                                                                                                                With contemporary rapid prototyping services, you can spend a couple of hours making a detailed 3d object file for most major parts. Then have the 3d part in your hands in a as little as a few hours of a machine 'printing' the 3d object.

                                                                                                                After seeing the original hardware used to make the walthers cars sides in action. There's no way you'd want to re-make crudely stamped parts and punched parts on a modified sewing machine today.

                                                                                                                But I can go to over a dozen local shops and basement operators and do much the same in woods or plastics with better quality and precision with their laser cutter........... or get one of the $7,000-plus machines and do it myself.......... or use a $1,500 or so desk-top cnc-mill to do it more slowly...........  or go a ways down the street and have a company that laser and water-cuts all sorts of complex gaskets and panels in plastics and metals make the car side blanks for a small unit price.......

                                                                                                                You can re-create any old Walthers cars, but done better......... 

                                                                                                                Best to ya'
                                                                                                                Mike Bauers
                                                                                                                Milwaukee Wi, USA


                                                                                                                On Sep 19, 2006, at 6:23 PM, Glenn wrote:

                                                                                                                Re: the Walthers car parts--did anyone buy the HO line? I know that Keil Line has the O Scale parts.
                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 2:07 AM
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] looking 4


                                                                                                                You can make one-off castings with the right clay that comes with the solid-casting [2-part liquid] casting plastics like the $19 or so intro kit  from Smooth-On or Alumilite.

                                                                                                                It would be convenient if we could just buy the needed parts for the usual $3 or so a pair that similar parts seem to cost these days. For about the same cost of a few of those, you can make a whole lot more.

                                                                                                                And get them quicker than waiting for those to be put on the market.

                                                                                                                This is something I also have to make for myself. While I'm at it, I'll make some other un-obtainable,  obsolete parts with the rest of the casting supplies.... ....... like OOP Walthers old, metal Doodlebug ends, passenger car Solarium ends and passenger steps.
                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1595 From: Glenn Date: 9/20/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: looking 4
                                                                                                                My comment was more in response to someone else looking for certain Walthers castings.    I work mainly in O Scale, and get parts from Keil Line--particularly for the Olympian Hiawatha I hope to finish some day. 
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                 In many cases it is desirable to find the older parts when trying to match a string of the older cars--I recall how one car stood out in a string of the Walthers cars--
                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 1:51 AM
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] looking 4

                                                                                                                It would be just as easy to make new masters with better details and modern materials.


                                                                                                                With contemporary rapid prototyping services, you can spend a couple of hours making a detailed 3d object file for most major parts. Then have the 3d part in your hands in a as little as a few hours of a machine 'printing' the 3d object.

                                                                                                                After seeing the original hardware used to make the walthers cars sides in action. There's no way you'd want to re-make crudely stamped parts and punched parts on a modified sewing machine today.

                                                                                                                But I can go to over a dozen local shops and basement operators and do much the same in woods or plastics with better quality and precision with their laser cutter...... ..... or get one of the $7,000-plus machines and do it myself...... .... or use a $1,500 or so desk-top cnc-mill to do it more slowly...... .....  or go a ways down the street and have a company that laser and water-cuts all sorts of complex gaskets and panels in plastics and metals make the car side blanks for a small unit price.......

                                                                                                                You can re-create any old Walthers cars, but done better...... ... 

                                                                                                                Best to ya'
                                                                                                                Mike Bauers
                                                                                                                Milwaukee Wi, USA


                                                                                                                On Sep 19, 2006, at 6:23 PM, Glenn wrote:

                                                                                                                Re: the Walthers car parts--did anyone buy the HO line? I know that Keil Line has the O Scale parts.
                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 2:07 AM
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] looking 4


                                                                                                                You can make one-off castings with the right clay that comes with the solid-casting [2-part liquid] casting plastics like the $19 or so intro kit  from Smooth-On or Alumilite.

                                                                                                                It would be convenient if we could just buy the needed parts for the usual $3 or so a pair that similar parts seem to cost these days. For about the same cost of a few of those, you can make a whole lot more.

                                                                                                                And get them quicker than waiting for those to be put on the market.

                                                                                                                This is something I also have to make for myself. While I'm at it, I'll make some other un-obtainable,  obsolete parts with the rest of the casting supplies.... ....... like OOP Walthers old, metal Doodlebug ends, passenger car Solarium ends and passenger steps.

                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1596 From: Mike Bauers Date: 9/20/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: looking 4
                                                                                                                I agree with you..........

                                                                                                                To this point......... If I want to have more to match a Walthers car I already have. Then I already have the masters to make a few cast duplicates for myself.

                                                                                                                In fact, I probably have the last HO trolley side sets Walthers created. I'm told my order was large enough for them to make this final batch. For the ends and details I only have one or two sets. So to use my Walthers sets of sides, I'm making my own duplicate castings to get them into operation. 

                                                                                                                I have some very pre-owned Walthers carcasses and a few passenger kits and some few casting sets that are set aside for similar duplication.

                                                                                                                How else will I ever get a set of the long, long out of production PUG cars of which I've stumbled across 2 or 3 in the last 30 years........

                                                                                                                I have a very deep respect for Alumilite products making this rather simple to do. 

                                                                                                                Best to ya'
                                                                                                                Mike Bauers
                                                                                                                Milwaukee Wi, USA


                                                                                                                On Sep 20, 2006, at 6:47 PM, Glenn wrote:

                                                                                                                My comment was more in response to someone else looking for certain Walthers castings.    I work mainly in O Scale, and get parts from Keil Line--particularly for the Olympian Hiawatha I hope to finish some day. 
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                 In many cases it is desirable to find the older parts when trying to match a string of the older cars--I recall how one car stood out in a string of the Walthers cars--
                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 1:51 AM
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] looking 4

                                                                                                                It would be just as easy to make new masters with better details and modern materials.


                                                                                                                With contemporary rapid prototyping services, you can spend a couple of hours making a detailed 3d object file for most major parts. Then have the 3d part in your hands in a as little as a few hours of a machine 'printing' the 3d object.

                                                                                                                After seeing the original hardware used to make the walthers cars sides in action. There's no way you'd want to re-make crudely stamped parts and punched parts on a modified sewing machine today.

                                                                                                                But I can go to over a dozen local shops and basement operators and do much the same in woods or plastics with better quality and precision with their laser cutter...... ..... or get one of the $7,000-plus machines and do it myself...... .... or use a $1,500 or so desk-top cnc-mill to do it more slowly...... .....  or go a ways down the street and have a company that laser and water-cuts all sorts of complex gaskets and panels in plastics and metals make the car side blanks for a small unit price.......

                                                                                                                You can re-create any old Walthers cars, but done better...... ... 

                                                                                                                Best to ya'
                                                                                                                Mike Bauers
                                                                                                                Milwaukee Wi, USA


                                                                                                                On Sep 19, 2006, at 6:23 PM, Glenn wrote:

                                                                                                                Re: the Walthers car parts--did anyone buy the HO line? I know that Keil Line has the O Scale parts.
                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 2:07 AM
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] looking 4


                                                                                                                You can make one-off castings with the right clay that comes with the solid-casting [2-part liquid] casting plastics like the $19 or so intro kit  from Smooth-On or Alumilite.

                                                                                                                It would be convenient if we could just buy the needed parts for the usual $3 or so a pair that similar parts seem to cost these days. For about the same cost of a few of those, you can make a whole lot more.

                                                                                                                And get them quicker than waiting for those to be put on the market.

                                                                                                                This is something I also have to make for myself. While I'm at it, I'll make some other un-obtainable,  obsolete parts with the rest of the casting supplies.... ....... like OOP Walthers old, metal Doodlebug ends, passenger car Solarium ends and passenger steps.
                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1597 From: robyntw247 Date: 9/21/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Question about an old HO blinking traffic stop signal.
                                                                                                                Hi,

                                                                                                                This is a question for those that had been in HO for many years and
                                                                                                                know what kind of lighted acessories were available back in the 50s or
                                                                                                                60s.

                                                                                                                I'm trying to remember the name of a company that made a blinking stop
                                                                                                                light. This was basically a stop sign (4-way, I believe) that had a
                                                                                                                small light bulb that blinked to let the motorist know to stop at the
                                                                                                                intersection and was made sometime during the 50s or 60s.

                                                                                                                Does anyone know what I'm talking about of could give me more
                                                                                                                information about it? I want to say it was Revell, but I'm not sure.

                                                                                                                Thanks,
                                                                                                                Robyn
                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1598 From: Donald Dellmann Date: 9/21/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Question about an old HO blinking traffic stop signal.
                                                                                                                Was ths it?  It's been around since the 70's.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Anthing older was probably sold by Aristo-Craft (and probably made by Brawa)
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Don
                                                                                                                Moderator

                                                                                                                robyntw247 <robyntw247@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                Hi,

                                                                                                                This is a question for those that had been in HO for many years and
                                                                                                                know what kind of lighted acessories were available back in the 50s or
                                                                                                                60s.

                                                                                                                I'm trying to remember the name of a company that made a blinking stop
                                                                                                                light. This was basically a stop sign (4-way, I believe) that had a
                                                                                                                small light bulb that blinked to let the motorist know to stop at the
                                                                                                                intersection and was made sometime during the 50s or 60s.

                                                                                                                Does anyone know what I'm talking about of could give me more
                                                                                                                information about it? I want to say it was Revell, but I'm not sure.

                                                                                                                Thanks,
                                                                                                                Robyn










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                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1599 From: Robyn W. Date: 9/21/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Question about an old HO blinking traffic stop signal.
                                                                                                                Hi Donald,
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Yes, Aristo-Craft was the company! Thank you very much! I'm not sure about the NJ International item since they were available non-working IIRC.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Now, does anyone out there have a photo of the signals or a copy of their catalog or other information about their signals or lights?
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Thanks again,
                                                                                                                Robyn


                                                                                                                How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates.
                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1600 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 9/21/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Question about an old HO blinking traffic stop signal.
                                                                                                                You might find an old Aristo-Craft catalogue on ebay once in a whle.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Mind what you are willing to pay and don't forget the freight.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                And enjoy!
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut)

                                                                                                                "Robyn W." <robyntw247@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                Hi Donald,
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Yes, Aristo-Craft was the company! Thank you very much! I'm not sure about the NJ International item since they were available non-working IIRC.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Now, does anyone out there have a photo of the signals or a copy of their catalog or other information about their signals or lights?
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Thanks again,
                                                                                                                Robyn

                                                                                                                How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates.


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                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1601 From: michael rapp, sr Date: 9/22/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Question about an old HO blinking traffic stop signal.
                                                                                                                This web site has some blinking traffic lights
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Mike Rapp

                                                                                                                Donald Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                Was ths it?  It's been around since the 70's.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Anthing older was probably sold by Aristo-Craft (and probably made by Brawa)
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Don
                                                                                                                Moderator

                                                                                                                robyntw247 <robyntw247@yahoo. com> wrote:
                                                                                                                Hi,

                                                                                                                This is a question for those that had been in HO for many years and
                                                                                                                know what kind of lighted acessories were available back in the 50s or
                                                                                                                60s.

                                                                                                                I'm trying to remember the name of a company that made a blinking stop
                                                                                                                light. This was basically a stop sign (4-way, I believe) that had a
                                                                                                                small light bulb that blinked to let the motorist know to stop at the
                                                                                                                intersection and was made sometime during the 50s or 60s.

                                                                                                                Does anyone know what I'm talking about of could give me more
                                                                                                                information about it? I want to say it was Revell, but I'm not sure.

                                                                                                                Thanks,
                                                                                                                Robyn










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                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1602 From: erieberk Date: 9/22/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Question about an old HO blinking traffic stop signal.
                                                                                                                Hi Robyn, Indeed it was Aristo-Craft. My 1962 catalog shows it on
                                                                                                                page 23 (the inside back cover). Along with the illustration is the
                                                                                                                description "Walk -- Don't-Walk Traffic Signal with Blinking Bulb", No.
                                                                                                                13 - $2.00. Its a 3-position (red, amber and green) 4-way traffic
                                                                                                                signal with pedestrian signals under the traffic lenses. In that
                                                                                                                catagory, they also made two other simpler looking blinking signals,
                                                                                                                No. 25SRR Crossing Signal @ $1.00 and No. 25SH Highway Signal @ $1.00.

                                                                                                                The series of eight different illuminated, all metal HO railroad
                                                                                                                signals appear to be quite detailed and realistic. An automatic
                                                                                                                (solenoid operated) crossing gate w/crossing, dummy crossing signal and
                                                                                                                gate house (No. 265) was another accessory they made as were several
                                                                                                                other operating accessories like their Mineral Ore Conveyor (No #) and
                                                                                                                their Operating Sand and Gravel Loader (No. 617B). An interesting
                                                                                                                operating item was their Rotary Snow Plow with the blades actually
                                                                                                                revolving as this unit was pushed along in front of an engine.

                                                                                                                I can't post copies, but can snail mail the info to you if you'd like.
                                                                                                                Ray


                                                                                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Robyn W." <robyntw247@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > Hi Donald,
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > Yes, Aristo-Craft was the company! Thank you very much! I'm not
                                                                                                                sure about the NJ International item since they were available non-
                                                                                                                working IIRC.
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > Now, does anyone out there have a photo of the signals or a copy of
                                                                                                                their catalog or other information about their signals or lights?
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > Thanks again,
                                                                                                                > Robyn
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                                > How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone
                                                                                                                call rates.
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1603 From: robyntw247 Date: 9/22/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Another question, in regards to Tyco.
                                                                                                                Hi,

                                                                                                                I'm not sure if Tyco could be consider as part of this group's focus,
                                                                                                                but on the subject of light-up accessories, but didn't Brawa made the
                                                                                                                streetlights that were offered in the 60s & early 70s as well (red or
                                                                                                                blue box era)?

                                                                                                                Thanks,
                                                                                                                Robyn
                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1604 From: John Barlow Date: 9/22/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Another question, in regards to Tyco.
                                                                                                                Yes,
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Check with Walthers...they probably still do-and quite ornate were some.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                John

                                                                                                                robyntw247 <robyntw247@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                Hi,

                                                                                                                I'm not sure if Tyco could be consider as part of this group's focus,
                                                                                                                but on the subject of light-up accessories, but didn't Brawa made the
                                                                                                                streetlights that were offered in the 60s & early 70s as well (red or
                                                                                                                blue box era)?

                                                                                                                Thanks,
                                                                                                                Robyn



                                                                                                                Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail.

                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1605 From: Lennard Stewart Date: 9/22/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Another question, in regards to Tyco.
                                                                                                                In this months (OCT.) issue of Model RailRoader magazine on page 99 is an add for Walthers and they are now carrying these. They even have the controller for them.. Here is a link  http://walthers.com/exec/search?category=Signals&scale=H&manu=&item=&keywords=Traffic+Lights&instock=Q&split=30&Submit=Search

                                                                                                                also here are some part numbers (933-2300) ,  (933-2301), (933-2302), and (933-2305)  and the controller is part number (933-2306) These are all Walthers numbers. Hope this helps Lennard Stewart in Gilmer,TX


                                                                                                                John Barlow wrote:
                                                                                                                Yes,
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Check with Walthers...they probably still do-and quite ornate were some.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                John

                                                                                                                robyntw247 <robyntw247@yahoo. com> wrote:
                                                                                                                Hi,

                                                                                                                I'm not sure if Tyco could be consider as part of this group's focus,
                                                                                                                but on the subject of light-up accessories, but didn't Brawa made the
                                                                                                                streetlights that were offered in the 60s & early 70s as well (red or
                                                                                                                blue box era)?

                                                                                                                Thanks,
                                                                                                                Robyn



                                                                                                                Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail.

                                                                                                                No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.8/455 - Release Date: 9/22/2006

                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1606 From: Robyn W. Date: 9/22/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Another question, in regards to Tyco.
                                                                                                                Hi Lennard,
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Thanks for the info on Walthers signals. I've checked into them already and may use them at some point. However the reason I asked about the older Aristro-Craft signals was due to historic reasons (I'm learning about what scenic assories were available in HO in the beginning of the post-war train market).
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Best,
                                                                                                                Robyn


                                                                                                                All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.
                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1607 From: erieberk Date: 9/23/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Another question, in regards to Tyco.
                                                                                                                Robyn, Aristocraft also produced a series of six different style
                                                                                                                illuminated metal street lamps covering all modeling periods from about
                                                                                                                the early 20th century to modern era. They were sold as sets (all of
                                                                                                                one style), some sets had 4 to the set while other sets had 3 to the
                                                                                                                set, all @ $1 per set. Set Numbers were: # 1C - Goose Neck (Qty. 3), #
                                                                                                                2C Gas Lamp (Qty. 4), # 3C Street Lamp (Qty. 4), # 4C Flourescent Lamp
                                                                                                                (Qty. 3), # 8C Highway Lamp (Qty. 3) and # 10C Park Lamp (Qty. 4).

                                                                                                                Similar lighted items were: No. 27S Illuminated Two-Faced Street Clock
                                                                                                                @ $0.75, No. 28 Illuminated Four-Faced Street Clock @ $1.00, No. 11
                                                                                                                Modern Traffic Signal w/Overhanging Arm (and horizontally postioned 3-
                                                                                                                lamp light) - had 3 different colored bulbs @ $1.25 and No. 12 Modern
                                                                                                                Traffic Signal (similar in appearance) but with continously blinking
                                                                                                                yellow bulb @ $1.35.

                                                                                                                They also produced No. FLC2 Two-Light Floodlight Tower @ $1.19 and No.
                                                                                                                MWC1 Blinking Microwave Relay Tower @ $1.19. There were about 20
                                                                                                                plastic structure kits, and a Sand House (# S7) and Railroad Water Tank
                                                                                                                (T1) of metal (assembled), in addition to 16 different steam locos (up
                                                                                                                from the 11 I mentioned in my off-line message). Ray


                                                                                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "robyntw247" <robyntw247@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > Hi,
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > I'm not sure if Tyco could be consider as part of this group's focus,
                                                                                                                > but on the subject of light-up accessories, but didn't Brawa made the
                                                                                                                > streetlights that were offered in the 60s & early 70s as well (red or
                                                                                                                > blue box era)?
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > Thanks,
                                                                                                                > Robyn
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1608 From: Lennard Stewart Date: 9/23/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Another question, in regards to Tyco.
                                                                                                                You are quite welcome Lennard Stewart


                                                                                                                Robyn W. wrote:
                                                                                                                Hi Lennard,
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Thanks for the info on Walthers signals. I've checked into them already and may use them at some point. However the reason I asked about the older Aristro-Craft signals was due to historic reasons (I'm learning about what scenic assories were available in HO in the beginning of the post-war train market).
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Best,
                                                                                                                Robyn


                                                                                                                All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

                                                                                                                No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.8/455 - Release Date: 9/22/2006

                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1609 From: Jack Priller Date: 9/25/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Marx HO flat
                                                                                                                Acquaintance of mine recently acquired a car (at garage sale
                                                                                                                price!) that he would like more information about. It is a die-cast
                                                                                                                Marx, HO scale, Erie 7210 Depressed-center flat. Supposedly, according
                                                                                                                to another acquaintance, it originally came with two cables reels.
                                                                                                                What he got was a pair of containers, labeled as "The LCL Refrigerator
                                                                                                                Container" and a NYC logo, but no manufacturer marks. He would
                                                                                                                appreciate any data re the car itself and that load. Thanks in advance.

                                                                                                                Jack Priller
                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1610 From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com Date: 9/25/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Marx HO flat
                                                                                                                Model Power still has that car, although slightly modified. They still offer the car with the Cable Reels, and it is still die cast. Model Power has many of the old Marx pieces. I have the Marx Westinghouse flat, which has an engine load on it. Unfortunately, M P does not offer that load on their version, just the Reels, and, I think... a Searchlight. 
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                From: westpac67@...
                                                                                                                To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                Sent: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 4:47 AM
                                                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] Marx HO flat

                                                                                                                Acquaintance of mine recently acquired a car (at garage sale
                                                                                                                price!) that he would like more information about. It is a die-cast
                                                                                                                Marx, HO scale, Erie 7210 Depressed-center flat. Supposedly, according
                                                                                                                to another acquaintance, it originally came with two cables reels.
                                                                                                                What he got was a pair of containers, labeled as "The LCL Refrigerator
                                                                                                                Container" and a NYC logo, but no manufacturer marks. He would
                                                                                                                appreciate any data re the car itself and that load. Thanks in advance.

                                                                                                                Jack Priller


                                                                                                                Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1611 From: Roger Aultman Date: 9/25/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [SPAM] [vintageHO] Marx HO flat
                                                                                                                The Sixth Edition Marx Guide by Greenberg says, "7210 Erie, depressed
                                                                                                                -center, black or maroon, 57. No mention iof a load. Roger Aultman




                                                                                                                Jack Priller wrote:
                                                                                                                > Acquaintance of mine recently acquired a car (at garage sale
                                                                                                                > price!) that he would like more information about. It is a die-cast
                                                                                                                > Marx, HO scale, Erie 7210 Depressed-center flat. Supposedly, according
                                                                                                                > to another acquaintance, it originally came with two cables reels.
                                                                                                                > What he got was a pair of containers, labeled as "The LCL Refrigerator
                                                                                                                > Container" and a NYC logo, but no manufacturer marks. He would
                                                                                                                > appreciate any data re the car itself and that load. Thanks in advance.
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > Jack Priller
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >


                                                                                                                --
                                                                                                                http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

                                                                                                                Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                                                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1612 From: Dave Slater Date: 9/25/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: I'm back...
                                                                                                                Hello group,
                                                                                                                I am finally able to use my computer a little more following eye surgery
                                                                                                                to repair a detached Retina, very scary situation, one day at work it
                                                                                                                was like someone had pulled a shade halfway over one eye and what I
                                                                                                                could see out off was very blurred. All is "repaired" and I am on the
                                                                                                                road to regaining full use of that eye but will still need glasses.
                                                                                                                Anyway back on topic here, I met up with the father of one of my late
                                                                                                                co-workers the other day and he has an old TriAng Hudson steamer and is
                                                                                                                wondering where he can find some passenger cars to go with it, any ides
                                                                                                                here???
                                                                                                                Thanks,
                                                                                                                Dave S.
                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1613 From: Glenn Date: 9/25/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Marx HO flat
                                                                                                                I think that some of the Marx HO actually usedd American Flyer parts--at least some of the models I have seem look nearly identical.
                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 4:47 AM
                                                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] Marx HO flat

                                                                                                                Acquaintance of mine recently acquired a car (at garage sale
                                                                                                                price!) that he would like more information about. It is a die-cast
                                                                                                                Marx, HO scale, Erie 7210 Depressed-center flat. Supposedly, according
                                                                                                                to another acquaintance, it originally came with two cables reels.
                                                                                                                What he got was a pair of containers, labeled as "The LCL Refrigerator
                                                                                                                Container" and a NYC logo, but no manufacturer marks. He would
                                                                                                                appreciate any data re the car itself and that load. Thanks in advance.

                                                                                                                Jack Priller

                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1614 From: Larry Stevenson Date: 9/26/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Marx HO flat
                                                                                                                Hello Jack
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                I think the containers on your Marx Flatcar are Athearn.  Athearn made a NYC LCL  container in different colors Red, Silver, and White. They sold these containers as loads in their 50' gondolas.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Larry

                                                                                                                Jack Priller <westpac67@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                Acquaintance of mine recently acquired a car (at garage sale
                                                                                                                price!) that he would like more information about. It is a die-cast
                                                                                                                Marx, HO scale, Erie 7210 Depressed-center flat. Supposedly, according
                                                                                                                to another acquaintance, it originally came with two cables reels.
                                                                                                                What he got was a pair of containers, labeled as "The LCL Refrigerator
                                                                                                                Container" and a NYC logo, but no manufacturer marks. He would
                                                                                                                appreciate any data re the car itself and that load. Thanks in advance.

                                                                                                                Jack Priller



                                                                                                                All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1615 From: Jack Priller Date: 9/26/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Marx HO flat
                                                                                                                Thank you; those look EXACTLY like what he was describing. Will
                                                                                                                pass the info and the URL on to him.

                                                                                                                Jack

                                                                                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Larry Stevenson <seekingho@...>
                                                                                                                wrote:
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > Hello Jack
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > I think the containers on your Marx Flatcar are Athearn.
                                                                                                                Athearn made a NYC LCL container in different colors Red, Silver,
                                                                                                                and White. They sold these containers as loads in their 50' gondolas.
                                                                                                                > http://hoseeker.net/swapgallery/athearnkits19601966/1675_G
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > Larry
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > Jack Priller <westpac67@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                > Acquaintance of mine recently acquired a car (at garage
                                                                                                                sale
                                                                                                                > price!) that he would like more information about. It is a die-
                                                                                                                cast
                                                                                                                > Marx, HO scale, Erie 7210 Depressed-center flat. Supposedly,
                                                                                                                according
                                                                                                                > to another acquaintance, it originally came with two cables reels.
                                                                                                                > What he got was a pair of containers, labeled as "The LCL
                                                                                                                Refrigerator
                                                                                                                > Container" and a NYC logo, but no manufacturer marks. He would
                                                                                                                > appreciate any data re the car itself and that load. Thanks in
                                                                                                                advance.
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > Jack Priller
                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1616 From: vintage_thomas_trains Date: 10/10/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Brake wheel staff
                                                                                                                I am trying to complete a Thomas Industries tank car kit, and have hit
                                                                                                                a snag. Either the kit didn't come with, or I have lost, the brake
                                                                                                                wheel staff. What can I use as a substitute, keeping scale correct?
                                                                                                                After that, it's couplers to complete. TIA.
                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1617 From: Glenn Date: 10/10/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Brake wheel staff
                                                                                                                If we're talking about a vertical staff--.015" wire should be about right.
                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 7:35 AM
                                                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] Brake wheel staff

                                                                                                                I am trying to complete a Thomas Industries tank car kit, and have hit
                                                                                                                a snag. Either the kit didn't come with, or I have lost, the brake
                                                                                                                wheel staff. What can I use as a substitute, keeping scale correct?
                                                                                                                After that, it's couplers to complete. TIA.

                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1618 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 10/11/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Tru-Scale track assortment
                                                                                                                I have some old Tru-Scale stuff. Some nickel silver(at least the crossover, which is RH and appears to be a #8, as it's 22 1/4" long) and nickel silver 24" radius curved track - eight pieces, with rails etc.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Also another RH switch which appears to be #8 as well, in brass. It measures 13 7/8" long.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                A crossover, possbily new(it's in its original box) which is marked 14" crossing but the crossing is actually 15" long and the box is longer. Go figure. It is unused, apparently, showing no signs of wear and the wires appear not to have been used. 
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                A switch, in brass, LH #6.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                And a few miscellaneous bits of curved roadbed(no rail) in 30"(1 full one, chipped near one end, and a shorter one) and 26"(1 full one and one shortened).
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                One piece of straight complete track in poor condition and a bit or two of straight roadbed(no rails)
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Except as noted, it's all in fair to good condition but needs varying degrees of cleaning, as might be expected.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                All used but not too beat up.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Is this assortment worth putting up on eBay? Any ideas about opening bid or reserve?
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Thanks in advance
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Frfed Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut)
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.
                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1619 From: vintage_thomas_trains Date: 10/11/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Brake wheel staff
                                                                                                                Thanks for the reply. Yes, the vertical brake wheel staff. Any ideas
                                                                                                                on how long the piece of wire should be? Assuming I bend a small
                                                                                                                portion under the frame to glue in place.

                                                                                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > If we're talking about a vertical staff--.015" wire should be about
                                                                                                                right.
                                                                                                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                > From: vintage_thomas_trains
                                                                                                                > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                > Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 7:35 AM
                                                                                                                > Subject: [vintageHO] Brake wheel staff
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > I am trying to complete a Thomas Industries tank car kit, and have
                                                                                                                hit
                                                                                                                > a snag. Either the kit didn't come with, or I have lost, the brake
                                                                                                                > wheel staff. What can I use as a substitute, keeping scale correct?
                                                                                                                > After that, it's couplers to complete. TIA.
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1620 From: Glenn Date: 10/12/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Brake wheel staff
                                                                                                                not exactly, but logic says that the wheel is about waist high for the brakeman--I'll measure the one on my caboose--figure that in that era brakemen were probably 5'6" to 5'8" or so tall. 
                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 5:43 PM
                                                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Brake wheel staff

                                                                                                                Thanks for the reply. Yes, the vertical brake wheel staff. Any ideas
                                                                                                                on how long the piece of wire should be? Assuming I bend a small
                                                                                                                portion under the frame to glue in place.

                                                                                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@.. .> wrote:
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > If we're talking about a vertical staff--.015" wire should be about
                                                                                                                right.
                                                                                                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                > From: vintage_thomas_ trains
                                                                                                                > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                                                                > Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 7:35 AM
                                                                                                                > Subject: [vintageHO] Brake wheel staff
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > I am trying to complete a Thomas Industries tank car kit, and have
                                                                                                                hit
                                                                                                                > a snag. Either the kit didn't come with, or I have lost, the brake
                                                                                                                > wheel staff. What can I use as a substitute, keeping scale correct?
                                                                                                                > After that, it's couplers to complete. TIA.
                                                                                                                >

                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1621 From: Imp Ster Date: 10/12/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: re, old Tru-Scale stuff
                                                                                                                greets Fred, yes you will get some nibbles on Ebay no doubt.
                                                                                                                i myself have a certain soft spot for the classic tru-Scale trackage -
                                                                                                                the X-overs are works of art in my book.
                                                                                                                power them with old Tenshodo machines and you have something that
                                                                                                                transcends model, its a miniature.

                                                                                                                by all means list them if you want, you will certainly get something
                                                                                                                for them, but if you are not happy with the bids or reluctant to give
                                                                                                                the track to Eb-Philistines, i might be interested in the lot for my
                                                                                                                old bus layout ( which is heavy on the brass and wood).

                                                                                                                so list them and keep us posted on results if any.

                                                                                                                cheers, mason (da imp)

                                                                                                                ...

                                                                                                                btw, i'd set minimum at no less than $50, but you should expect much
                                                                                                                more as these track items are collectors items, so let the Ebay
                                                                                                                sharks dig their own greedy gillnet, Christmas madness approaches and
                                                                                                                the fever is building, so start bids somewhat lower, stand back and
                                                                                                                watch the fur fly!

                                                                                                                ...
                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1622 From: Bob B Date: 10/14/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Here's a real vintage item!
                                                                                                                Check out this eBay auction, for "Athearn HO Santa Fe #1762, Vintage
                                                                                                                SD-45 ,Train model trains, vintage athearn, MINT CODITION"

                                                                                                                http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?iewItem&ih=012&item=220033734177

                                                                                                                Bidding starts at only $1200!

                                                                                                                I have no connection with this auction, just wanted to share a laugh!

                                                                                                                Bob Boudreau
                                                                                                                Canada
                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1623 From: Dave Slater Date: 10/14/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item!
                                                                                                                Good grief, I wonder what an ALCO PA1 from the 1970's in NYC scheme
                                                                                                                would be worth/// LOL
                                                                                                                Dave S.

                                                                                                                Bob B wrote:
                                                                                                                > Check out this eBay auction, for "Athearn HO Santa Fe #1762, Vintage
                                                                                                                > SD-45 ,Train model trains, vintage athearn, MINT CODITION"
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?iewItem&ih=012&item=220033734177
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > Bidding starts at only $1200!
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > I have no connection with this auction, just wanted to share a laugh!
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > Bob Boudreau
                                                                                                                > Canada
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1624 From: John Barlow Date: 10/14/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item!
                                                                                                                Dear Bob,
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                The address given won't conjure up the item. As for the ridiculous, some few years back a party was advertising in Fine Scale Modeler to buy an Aurora Models "Godzilla-mobile" kit and offering $3,000 for it. Never read if he got one. Some people have more money than they can handle.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)

                                                                                                                Bob B <railphotog@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                Check out this eBay auction, for "Athearn HO Santa Fe #1762, Vintage
                                                                                                                SD-45 ,Train model trains, vintage athearn, MINT CODITION"

                                                                                                                http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?iewItem& ih=012&item= 220033734177

                                                                                                                Bidding starts at only $1200!

                                                                                                                I have no connection with this auction, just wanted to share a laugh!

                                                                                                                Bob Boudreau
                                                                                                                Canada



                                                                                                                All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1625 From: Glenn Date: 10/14/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item!
                                                                                                                That's definitely good for a laugh--are you tracking it to see if anyone actually goes for it?
                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                From: Bob B
                                                                                                                Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 2:29 AM
                                                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] Here's a real vintage item!

                                                                                                                Check out this eBay auction, for "Athearn HO Santa Fe #1762, Vintage
                                                                                                                SD-45 ,Train model trains, vintage athearn, MINT CODITION"

                                                                                                                http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?iewItem& ih=012&item= 220033734177

                                                                                                                Bidding starts at only $1200!

                                                                                                                I have no connection with this auction, just wanted to share a laugh!

                                                                                                                Bob Boudreau
                                                                                                                Canada

                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1626 From: Glenn Date: 10/14/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item!
                                                                                                                sometimes referred to has "having more dollars than sense"
                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 7:37 AM
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Here's a real vintage item!

                                                                                                                Dear Bob,
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                The address given won't conjure up the item. As for the ridiculous, some few years back a party was advertising in Fine Scale Modeler to buy an Aurora Models "Godzilla-mobile" kit and offering $3,000 for it. Never read if he got one. Some people have more money than they can handle.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)

                                                                                                                Bob B <railphotog@yahoo. com> wrote:
                                                                                                                Check out this eBay auction, for "Athearn HO Santa Fe #1762, Vintage
                                                                                                                SD-45 ,Train model trains, vintage athearn, MINT CODITION"

                                                                                                                http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?iewItem& ih=012&item= 220033734177

                                                                                                                Bidding starts at only $1200!

                                                                                                                I have no connection with this auction, just wanted to share a laugh!

                                                                                                                Bob Boudreau
                                                                                                                Canada



                                                                                                                All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1627 From: Bob B Date: 10/14/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item!
                                                                                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > That's definitely good for a laugh--are you tracking it to see if
                                                                                                                anyone actually goes for it?


                                                                                                                I sure am! Take another look at the auction - the seller is replying
                                                                                                                to several messages sent to him about the auction; they are at the
                                                                                                                bottom of the page. They sure tell about his attitude!

                                                                                                                Bob Boudreau
                                                                                                                Canada
                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1628 From: Lennard Stewart Date: 10/14/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item!
                                                                                                                Lennard Stewart wrote:
                                                                                                                   The link works but the way it looks the item has been removed from Ebay

                                                                                                                Glenn wrote:

                                                                                                                That's definitely good for a laugh--are you tracking it to see if anyone actually goes for it?
                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                From: Bob B
                                                                                                                Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 2:29 AM
                                                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] Here's a real vintage item!

                                                                                                                Check out this eBay auction, for "Athearn HO Santa Fe #1762, Vintage
                                                                                                                SD-45 ,Train model trains, vintage athearn, MINT CODITION"

                                                                                                                http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?iewItem& ih=012&item= 220033734177

                                                                                                                Bidding starts at only $1200!

                                                                                                                I have no connection with this auction, just wanted to share a laugh!

                                                                                                                Bob Boudreau
                                                                                                                Canada


                                                                                                                No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.4/475 - Release Date: 10/13/2006

                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1629 From: Wobbly913 Date: 10/14/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item!
                                                                                                                It is still listed as of just now, 11:30 Saturday night. He is even posting messages from other ebayer's telling him he is asking way too much. He then proceeds to ridicule them on the auction site. He has an interesting sales technique!!
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Wobbly913

                                                                                                                Lennard Stewart <lennard@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                Lennard Stewart wrote:
                                                                                                                   The link works but the way it looks the item has been removed from Ebay

                                                                                                                Glenn wrote:
                                                                                                                That's definitely good for a laugh--are you tracking it to see if anyone actually goes for it?
                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                From: Bob B
                                                                                                                Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 2:29 AM
                                                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] Here's a real vintage item!

                                                                                                                Check out this eBay auction, for "Athearn HO Santa Fe #1762, Vintage
                                                                                                                SD-45 ,Train model trains, vintage athearn, MINT CODITION"

                                                                                                                http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?iewItem& ih=012&item= 220033734177

                                                                                                                Bidding starts at only $1200!

                                                                                                                I have no connection with this auction, just wanted to share a laugh!

                                                                                                                Bob Boudreau
                                                                                                                Canada


                                                                                                                No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.4/475 - Release Date: 10/13/2006



                                                                                                                Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail.

                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1630 From: John Barlow Date: 10/15/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item!
                                                                                                                This is a "trip" down fantasy lane-but not for me. He probably sees that "Tonight Show" segment Jay Leno has about the ridiculous items on Ebay...and some of them are amazing and sell for ridiculously high prices. As goes vintage model railroading items, model railroaders have more common sense, by and large. Model Railroader once did a brief article on the "unique" modelers in the hobby, but I don't remember reading about any who'd pay $5.00 for an Atlas brass code 100 railjoiner from the 1950's or whatever.
                                                                                                                More pragmatically, I've seen "price fantasy" fly in the face of reality with some items. Some importers may  command a higher price. Fine-let a detailed plastic equivalent come along, and who needs the brass? Some are finding that out.
                                                                                                                "Technology" can be the enemy of "vintage" if with "vintage" the idea is that a Varney F3 is somehow an equivalent of a relic from the tomb of Tutankhamen. I remember some, but I do not worship them...and I do not need to spend untold and unwarranted sums to possess them. Send them to museums.
                                                                                                                To the pricey fool, give them no mind. They will disappear shortly. There are more worthy pursuits.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                It is still listed as of just now, 11:30 Saturday night. He is even posting messages from other ebayer's telling him he is asking way too much. He then proceeds to ridicule them on the auction site. He has an interesting sales technique!!
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Wobbly913

                                                                                                                Lennard Stewart <lennard@etex. net> wrote:
                                                                                                                Lennard Stewart wrote:
                                                                                                                   The link works but the way it looks the item has been removed from Ebay

                                                                                                                Glenn wrote:
                                                                                                                That's definitely good for a laugh--are you tracking it to see if anyone actually goes for it?
                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                From: Bob B
                                                                                                                Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 2:29 AM
                                                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] Here's a real vintage item!

                                                                                                                Check out this eBay auction, for "Athearn HO Santa Fe #1762, Vintage
                                                                                                                SD-45 ,Train model trains, vintage athearn, MINT CODITION"

                                                                                                                http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?iewItem& ih=012&item= 220033734177

                                                                                                                Bidding starts at only $1200!

                                                                                                                I have no connection with this auction, just wanted to share a laugh!

                                                                                                                Bob Boudreau
                                                                                                                Canada


                                                                                                                No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.4/475 - Release Date: 10/13/2006



                                                                                                                Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail.


                                                                                                                Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com

                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1631 From: Imp Ster Date: 10/15/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item!
                                                                                                                the Ebay link is not showing the sale.
                                                                                                                a search of Ebay site using that listed parameter comes up with plenty
                                                                                                                of results but not that item.
                                                                                                                i'd love to know the "name" of the seller, k.
                                                                                                                all these replies and nobody cussed him-her-it out yet?
                                                                                                                come on people, you must be getting soft.

                                                                                                                i've got rants and to spare, esp for some dimwit who cant even
                                                                                                                spell "condition".

                                                                                                                heheheh

                                                                                                                ...

                                                                                                                the seller is replying
                                                                                                                > to several messages sent to him about the auction

                                                                                                                ...
                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1632 From: Imp Ster Date: 10/15/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: RANT: a John English Mikado, back from the dead
                                                                                                                yup, i've been away, slowly resurrecting my soul after the Q-Town CSX-
                                                                                                                VRE debacle.
                                                                                                                i always knew it was only a temp gig, but kept hanging on for one
                                                                                                                more week, one more month, because i loved the trains, until the hand
                                                                                                                of God reached down and gave me a mighty bitch-slap.
                                                                                                                (which bitch-slap took the form of a lightning strike less than a
                                                                                                                mile from the station, which blew out CSX's piss-poor excuses for
                                                                                                                signals for 10 miles up and down the line just as the evening rush
                                                                                                                hour was building - but the fun was just starting!)
                                                                                                                for those who missed my farewell rant at CSX-sucks.com, the short
                                                                                                                story is, after months of frustration and anger building at the
                                                                                                                glaring ineptitude and indifferent incompetance proudly displayed by
                                                                                                                almost everyone from VRE "management" thru Amtrak ignoranti down to
                                                                                                                the corporate dregs of CSX and FRA, all that i could take and laugh
                                                                                                                at, but when the dumfk Amtrak "op" blocked the crossing for hours
                                                                                                                after the lighting strike, leaving the small town closed and myself
                                                                                                                at head end of the traffic jam at the Xing, enough was frikkn enough.
                                                                                                                never mind that Q-Town reeks of napalm and white phosphorus, one
                                                                                                                hardly notices that above the stale hubris and fast food stink.
                                                                                                                it was great while it lasted; a pity that more of you here couldnt
                                                                                                                enjoy the station webcam of VRE ops and other proto train action
                                                                                                                which i had going for a bit.

                                                                                                                so, a few months go by, the electrical hazing fades, and i wander
                                                                                                                into my old haunt the TrainSetc.
                                                                                                                there on a shelf looking neglected is a raggedy old box holding a
                                                                                                                John English Mike.
                                                                                                                the engine is in parts but complete, however the tender body has
                                                                                                                almost completely collapsed due to zinc rot.
                                                                                                                (oddly, the boiler body is still pristine Zamac.)
                                                                                                                all the drivers, the motor, etc, all are in excellent state of
                                                                                                                preservation, considering..
                                                                                                                the cost? - $15.

                                                                                                                just the thing to draw me out of my terminal funk, sez ii.

                                                                                                                so i take the relic home and dive in.
                                                                                                                poor old neglected abused thing.
                                                                                                                first i have to drill out the cylinder block to remove the 2 (two)
                                                                                                                broken drill bits locked in one of the piston sleeves, evidently the
                                                                                                                previous owner got that far and jammed up when the bits broke.
                                                                                                                (which was just as well as i had planned to sleeve the piston rod
                                                                                                                holes with brass tube anyway, as i loathe the typical piston rod slop)
                                                                                                                then i remove the crankpin from the cross head and vs versa the
                                                                                                                crosshead pins which had been used as crankpins.
                                                                                                                (do these people ever read the instructions? ..oh well, my profit.)

                                                                                                                oh there was more, lots more, spare me the DCC hoopla, those folks
                                                                                                                wouldnt know a crankpin from a torque wrench.
                                                                                                                this kind of assembly is a lost art, they give ya a box of parts and
                                                                                                                with luck you might end up with something that runs.
                                                                                                                however in my case (my basket case haha), the old mike is now purring
                                                                                                                like a swiss watch.
                                                                                                                give it 3 volts and it moves.
                                                                                                                i lost track of how many times i assembled and disassembled, shaving
                                                                                                                the side rods, reaming the crankpin holes, burnishing the axle slots,
                                                                                                                tuning the brush tension, etc etc.
                                                                                                                i finally got it running about midnite, Friday 13, if that means
                                                                                                                anything.

                                                                                                                i kind of hate to paint the old bird, the ancient zinc has a frosty
                                                                                                                look like silver or bleached bones.
                                                                                                                (just in time for Halloween haha)
                                                                                                                the bit of oiling i did so far has almost completely been absorbed
                                                                                                                into the previously-dry zinc, but the areas around the axles and
                                                                                                                crankpins are now showing a nice greasy grime from break-in operation.

                                                                                                                ah spose i should post a few pix of it.
                                                                                                                its rather a unique engine, more so in the instance of it's occurance
                                                                                                                now in my life.

                                                                                                                well, g2g get some rest i spose.
                                                                                                                just remember, even if Beeg Bruddah is watching you, that dont mean
                                                                                                                he gives a flying fig about ya.
                                                                                                                giving a flying fig is da imp's dept.
                                                                                                                thats why i'm here, thats why i rant, thats why i build and run
                                                                                                                veritable antiques which harken from a lost age of creative
                                                                                                                excellence and self-determination.

                                                                                                                etc etc

                                                                                                                ...

                                                                                                                no real point to the post, its just a rant already.

                                                                                                                cheers

                                                                                                                ...
                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1633 From: Bob B Date: 10/15/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item!
                                                                                                                --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Imp Ster" <iimpster@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > the Ebay link is not showing the sale.
                                                                                                                > a search of Ebay site using that listed parameter comes up with
                                                                                                                plenty
                                                                                                                > of results but not that item.
                                                                                                                > i'd love to know the "name" of the seller, k.
                                                                                                                > all these replies and nobody cussed him-her-it out yet?
                                                                                                                > come on people, you must be getting soft.


                                                                                                                Sunday morning. I just again checked the auction, still there with no
                                                                                                                change other than a few more questions and answers:

                                                                                                                http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=012&item=220033734177

                                                                                                                Bob Boudreau
                                                                                                                Canada
                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1634 From: Dale Smith Date: 10/15/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item!
                                                                                                                The item is still up.  The link didn't work for me either, so I just copied in the item number and searched that way and got to this link.  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220033734177  I think there are some extraneous characters inserted in the link and the V in View is missing.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                He has also really jacked up the shipping to $37.05.   How he came up with the 5 cents is a bit odd.  He is sticking to his guns, hoping for a sucker.  He says he is a collector, but if you look at his profile and other auctions, it seems he is a "stamp" collector.  Nothing else in this rarefied range though. 
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                His comments are hard to even understand.  Was he afraid the EBay link the first commenter gave him was an attempt to infect his computer?  In one question he seems to be referring to it as a "steam locomotive."  Also, it doesn't appear that English is his native language as he writes it so poorly I can barely understand it.  What is he talking about when he says "I am selling two train engines, One is free the other is clearly listed."  He is supposed to be in the United States, but I am not so sure.
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                Dale Smith
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 8:16 PM
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Here's a real vintage item!

                                                                                                                Lennard Stewart wrote:
                                                                                                                   The link works but the way it looks the item has been removed from Ebay

                                                                                                                Glenn wrote:

                                                                                                                That's definitely good for a laugh--are you tracking it to see if anyone actually goes for it?
                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                From: Bob B
                                                                                                                Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 2:29 AM
                                                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] Here's a real vintage item!

                                                                                                                Check out this eBay auction, for "Athearn HO Santa Fe #1762, Vintage
                                                                                                                SD-45 ,Train model trains, vintage athearn, MINT CODITION"

                                                                                                                http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?iewItem& ih=012&item= 220033734177

                                                                                                                Bidding starts at only $1200!

                                                                                                                I have no connection with this auction, just wanted to share a laugh!

                                                                                                                Bob Boudreau
                                                                                                                Canada


                                                                                                                No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.4/475 - Release Date: 10/13/2006

                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1635 From: Dave Slater Date: 10/15/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item!
                                                                                                                The link didn't work for me so I copy and pasted the item number, 220033734177 , into the search box on Ebays home page and found it that way. The seller is hyer5058 and his store is called "A stamp and Collectors Paradise"...
                                                                                                                Dave S.

                                                                                                                Imp Ster wrote:
                                                                                                                the Ebay link is not showing the sale.
                                                                                                                a search of Ebay site using that listed parameter comes up with plenty 
                                                                                                                of results but not that item.
                                                                                                                i'd love to know the "name" of the seller, k.
                                                                                                                all these replies and nobody cussed him-her-it out yet?
                                                                                                                come on people, you must be getting soft.
                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                i've got rants and to spare, esp for some dimwit who cant even 
                                                                                                                spell "condition".
                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                heheheh
                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                ...
                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                 the seller is replying 
                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                to several messages sent to him about the auction
                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                ...
                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                 
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                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1636 From: Ray Hobin Date: 10/15/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item!
                                                                                                                On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 Dale Smith wrote:

                                                                                                                >The item is still up. The link didn't work for me either, so I just copied in the item number and searched that way and got to this link. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220033734177 I think there are some extraneous characters inserted in the link and the V in View is missing.
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >He has also really jacked up the shipping to $37.05. How he came up with the 5 cents is a bit odd. He is sticking to his guns, hoping for a sucker. He says he is a collector, but if you look at his profile and other auctions, it seems he is a "stamp" collector. Nothing else in this rarefied range though.

                                                                                                                He sounds like an "el cheapo" individual...IMO, were he to get the reserve
                                                                                                                or starting bid, he should include free shipping.

                                                                                                                Ray H.
                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1637 From: Gerry D Date: 10/15/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item!
                                                                                                                Well for being as NASTY as he seems, I reported him
                                                                                                                for excessive shipping. Let's see if ebay kills the
                                                                                                                auction for him.

                                                                                                                That seemed like the only way for a reality check,
                                                                                                                other than making an offer of say $9.99!

                                                                                                                I don't need it nor want it, but he deserves it.
                                                                                                                Anyone want to try and bid $9.99 for it?

                                                                                                                Again it may be a scam to get someone's paypal account
                                                                                                                number....

                                                                                                                So be cautious.

                                                                                                                Gerry

                                                                                                                --- Ray Hobin <tcol@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                > On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 Dale Smith wrote:
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > >The item is still up. The link didn't work for me
                                                                                                                > either, so I just copied in the item number and
                                                                                                                > searched that way and got to this link.
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220033734177
                                                                                                                > I think there are some extraneous characters
                                                                                                                > inserted in the link and the V in View is missing.
                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                > >He has also really jacked up the shipping to
                                                                                                                > $37.05. How he came up with the 5 cents is a bit
                                                                                                                > odd. He is sticking to his guns, hoping for a
                                                                                                                > sucker. He says he is a collector, but if you look
                                                                                                                > at his profile and other auctions, it seems he is a
                                                                                                                > "stamp" collector. Nothing else in this rarefied
                                                                                                                > range though.
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > He sounds like an "el cheapo" individual...IMO, were
                                                                                                                > he to get the reserve
                                                                                                                > or starting bid, he should include free shipping.
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > Ray H.
                                                                                                                >


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                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1638 From: Robert K Nielsen Date: 10/15/2006
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item!
                                                                                                                Attachments :

                                                                                                                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Imp Ster" <iimpster@.. .> wrote:

                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > the Ebay link is
                                                                                                                  not showing the sale.
                                                                                                                  > a search of Ebay site using that listed
                                                                                                                  parameter comes up with
                                                                                                                  plenty
                                                                                                                  > of results but not that
                                                                                                                  item.
                                                                                                                  > i'd love to know the "name" of the seller, k.
                                                                                                                  > all these
                                                                                                                  replies and nobody cussed him-her-it out yet?
                                                                                                                  > come on people, you must
                                                                                                                  be getting soft.

                                                                                                                  Sunday morning. I just again checked the auction, still there with no
                                                                                                                  change other than a few more questions and answers:

                                                                                                                  http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?ViewItem& ih=012&item= 220033734177

                                                                                                                  Bob Boudreau
                                                                                                                  Canada
                                                                                                                  .___

                                                                                                                  .

                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1639 From: Richard Okrosy Date: 10/15/2006
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item!
                                                                                                                  Perhaps he forgot to put in the decimal point. Richie O
                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1640 From: Richard Okrosy Date: 10/15/2006
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Brake wheel staff
                                                                                                                  I have never seen a vertical brake wheel staff, but have heard that
                                                                                                                  on some cars, the wheel drops down to the floor. I assume this is on
                                                                                                                  flat cars, but perhaps it's on other cars too. Richie O
                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1641 From: Donald Dellmann Date: 10/15/2006
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item!

                                                                                                                  OTOH, if anybody is dumb enough to pay $1200 for a $25 locomotive, they deserve to pay $37.05 shipping.
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  Don
                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                  Ray Hobin <tcol@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                  (text deleted)
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  >He has also really jacked up the shipping to $37.05. How he came up with the 5 cents is a bit odd. He is sticking to his guns, hoping for a sucker. He says he is a collector, but if you look at his profile and other auctions, it seems he is a "stamp" collector. Nothing else in this rarefied range though.

                                                                                                                  He sounds like an "el cheapo" individual...IMO, were he to get the reserve
                                                                                                                  or starting bid, he should include free shipping.

                                                                                                                  Ray H.



                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1642 From: John Barlow Date: 10/15/2006
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item! A Picture of a Box?
                                                                                                                  Dear Ray,
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  Thank you-I finally saw the thing as portrayed on eBay. I saw that price and the picture-what a crock?
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)

                                                                                                                  Ray Hobin <tcol@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                  On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 Dale Smith wrote:

                                                                                                                  >The item is still up. The link didn't work for me either, so I just copied in the item number and searched that way and got to this link. http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?ViewItem& item=22003373417 7 I think there are some extraneous characters inserted in the link and the V in View is missing.
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  >He has also really jacked up the shipping to $37.05. How he came up with the 5 cents is a bit odd. He is sticking to his guns, hoping for a sucker. He says he is a collector, but if you look at his profile and other auctions, it seems he is a "stamp" collector. Nothing else in this rarefied range though.

                                                                                                                  He sounds like an "el cheapo" individual.. .IMO, were he to get the reserve
                                                                                                                  or starting bid, he should include free shipping.

                                                                                                                  Ray H.


                                                                                                                  Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1643 From: Glenn Date: 10/15/2006
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Brake wheel staff
                                                                                                                  Back in the days before the power handbrake (the ones with the wheel or lever mounted to a gearbox, the brake wheel was mounted at the top of a long staff,  The wheel is 3 feet above the "floor" level--whether it be an end sill, brake step, or the bearing on the roof of the car as seen on most narrow gauge cars. At the "floor" there was a ratchet secured to the staff, with a pawl on the bearing plate to engage the ratchet and keep the brake set.  Brakemen usually used a brake club to get extra leverage in setting the hand brake.  Before air brakes, this is the way it was done. The caboose on the train I work on has these at both ends. gj 
                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                  Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 12:41 PM
                                                                                                                  Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Brake wheel staff

                                                                                                                  I have never seen a vertical brake wheel staff, but have heard that
                                                                                                                  on some cars, the wheel drops down to the floor. I assume this is on
                                                                                                                  flat cars, but perhaps it's on other cars too. Richie O

                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1644 From: Wobbly913 Date: 10/15/2006
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item! A Picture of a Box?
                                                                                                                  The whole thing takes on a new twist!!! He has now raised his price to $1,500, and raised the freight to $40.20.  He does not take criticism very well, takes good advice even better yet!!
                                                                                                                  What a joke.
                                                                                                                  Wobbly913

                                                                                                                  John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                  Dear Ray,
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  Thank you-I finally saw the thing as portrayed on eBay. I saw that price and the picture-what a crock?
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)

                                                                                                                  Ray Hobin <tcol@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                  On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 Dale Smith wrote:

                                                                                                                  >The item is still up. The link didn't work for me either, so I just copied in the item number and searched that way and got to this link. http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?ViewItem& item=22003373417 7 I think there are some extraneous characters inserted in the link and the V in View is missing.
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  >He has also really jacked up the shipping to $37.05. How he came up with the 5 cents is a bit odd. He is sticking to his guns, hoping for a sucker. He says he is a collector, but if you look at his profile and other auctions, it seems he is a "stamp" collector. Nothing else in this rarefied range though.

                                                                                                                  He sounds like an "el cheapo" individual.. .IMO, were he to get the reserve
                                                                                                                  or starting bid, he should include free shipping.

                                                                                                                  Ray H.


                                                                                                                  Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.


                                                                                                                  Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.

                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1645 From: Dave Slater Date: 10/15/2006
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item! A Picture of a Box?
                                                                                                                  What I want is some of the drugs he is on, must make for a wonderful life..  LOL
                                                                                                                  Dave S.

                                                                                                                  Wobbly913 wrote:
                                                                                                                  The whole thing takes on a new twist!!! He has now raised his price to $1,500, and raised the freight to $40.20.  He does not take criticism very well, takes good advice even better yet!!
                                                                                                                  What a joke.
                                                                                                                  Wobbly913

                                                                                                                  John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                  Dear Ray,
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  Thank you-I finally saw the thing as portrayed on eBay. I saw that price and the picture-what a crock?
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)

                                                                                                                  Ray Hobin <tcol@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                  On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 Dale Smith wrote:

                                                                                                                  >The item is still up. The link didn't work for me either, so I just copied in the item number and searched that way and got to this link. http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?ViewItem& item=22003373417 7 I think there are some extraneous characters inserted in the link and the V in View is missing.
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  >He has also really jacked up the shipping to $37.05. How he came up with the 5 cents is a bit odd. He is sticking to his guns, hoping for a sucker. He says he is a collector, but if you look at his profile and other auctions, it seems he is a "stamp" collector. Nothing else in this rarefied range though.

                                                                                                                  He sounds like an "el cheapo" individual.. .IMO, were he to get the reserve
                                                                                                                  or starting bid, he should include free shipping.

                                                                                                                  Ray H.


                                                                                                                  Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.


                                                                                                                  Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.

                                                                                                                  No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.4/476 - Release Date: 10/14/2006
                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1646 From: Robert K Nielsen Date: 10/15/2006
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item! A Picture of a Box?
                                                                                                                  Greetings,
                                                                                                                  I am intrugued by this guys nerve to think he can get this much for a basic Athearn locomotive.  I was thinking, the real thing came out about '66 and I doubt that Athearn made a model of it that same year.  The box looks like one I have from the late 70's or early 80's.  Early boxes were yellow at least some I've seen.  I don't think this guy knows what he is talking about.  It is interesting though and good for a laugh.  It is intersting too that he wants his identity kept private....kinda suspicious IMO, I mean sure there is nothing wrong with it but it is questionable.  Makes me wonder what this guy is *smoking* ;-)  I like what he said about the identical item in another auction "not even close..." and it's the exact same thing.
                                                                                                                  Rob, KC7WVN
                                                                                                                  Cobalt Creek and Western
                                                                                                                  RK Industries
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  What I want is some of the drugs he is on, must make for a wonderful life..  LOL
                                                                                                                  Dave S.
                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1647 From: John Barlow Date: 10/15/2006
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item! A Picture of a Box?
                                                                                                                  Dear Bob,
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  Stranger things happen. I saw a small brass diesel with an awful paint job on it and it runs...and it was offered at a train show for $40.00. I bought it years ago. I need to put the NWSL gearing in it that that I later bought for it. What is it? A PRR T6 imported by Alco. One store on-line today is selling one for $250. Laugh! The PRR had six of the beasts on its roster-and I have one in HO. This clown couldn't even match that reality for me.
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  John

                                                                                                                  Robert K Nielsen <the_hobo@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                  Greetings,
                                                                                                                  I am intrugued by this guys nerve to think he can get this much for a basic Athearn locomotive.  I was thinking, the real thing came out about '66 and I doubt that Athearn made a model of it that same year.  The box looks like one I have from the late 70's or early 80's.  Early boxes were yellow at least some I've seen.  I don't think this guy knows what he is talking about.  It is interesting though and good for a laugh.  It is intersting too that he wants his identity kept private....kinda suspicious IMO, I mean sure there is nothing wrong with it but it is questionable.  Makes me wonder what this guy is *smoking* ;-)  I like what he said about the identical item in another auction "not even close..." and it's the exact same thing.
                                                                                                                  Rob, KC7WVN
                                                                                                                  Cobalt Creek and Western
                                                                                                                  RK Industries
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  What I want is some of the drugs he is on, must make for a wonderful life..  LOL
                                                                                                                  Dave S.


                                                                                                                  Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.

                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1648 From: michael rapp, sr Date: 10/15/2006
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item! A Picture of a Box?
                                                                                                                  Hi all,
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                     I think this guy is just boared and playing everyone. I asked him in a very nice way if he was giving some extra parts with the engine, causing the price increase, and his answer was too criptic to be part of a real auction. He spent less money than a movie costs to get "his brand" of enjoyment. If everyone ignored him he would have wasted that money. But this is not the case.
                                                                                                                  Mike Rapp

                                                                                                                  Robert K Nielsen <the_hobo@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                  Greetings,
                                                                                                                  I am intrugued by this guys nerve to think he can get this much for a basic Athearn locomotive.  I was thinking, the real thing came out about '66 and I doubt that Athearn made a model of it that same year.  The box looks like one I have from the late 70's or early 80's.  Early boxes were yellow at least some I've seen.  I don't think this guy knows what he is talking about.  It is interesting though and good for a laugh.  It is intersting too that he wants his identity kept private....kinda suspicious IMO, I mean sure there is nothing wrong with it but it is questionable.  Makes me wonder what this guy is *smoking* ;-)  I like what he said about the identical item in another auction "not even close..." and it's the exact same thing.
                                                                                                                  Rob, KC7WVN
                                                                                                                  Cobalt Creek and Western
                                                                                                                  RK Industries
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  What I want is some of the drugs he is on, must make for a wonderful life..  LOL
                                                                                                                  Dave S.


                                                                                                                  Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com

                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1649 From: Wobbly913 Date: 10/16/2006
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item! A Picture of a Box?
                                                                                                                  According to my Standard Guide to Athearn Model Trains, that model #4165 road # 1762 came out in 3/66. I don't know that his was neccessarily made that year.
                                                                                                                  His box shows a price of $14.95 new price.  Quite an appreciation!!
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  Wobbly913

                                                                                                                  Robert K Nielsen <the_hobo@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                  Greetings,
                                                                                                                  I am intrugued by this guys nerve to think he can get this much for a basic Athearn locomotive.  I was thinking, the real thing came out about '66 and I doubt that Athearn made a model of it that same year.  The box looks like one I have from the late 70's or early 80's.  Early boxes were yellow at least some I've seen.  I don't think this guy knows what he is talking about.  It is interesting though and good for a laugh.  It is intersting too that he wants his identity kept private....kinda suspicious IMO, I mean sure there is nothing wrong with it but it is questionable.  Makes me wonder what this guy is *smoking* ;-)  I like what he said about the identical item in another auction "not even close..." and it's the exact same thing.
                                                                                                                  Rob, KC7WVN
                                                                                                                  Cobalt Creek and Western
                                                                                                                  RK Industries
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                  What I want is some of the drugs he is on, must make for a wonderful life..  LOL
                                                                                                                  Dave S.


                                                                                                                  Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com

                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1650 From: Richard Okrosy Date: 10/16/2006
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Brake wheel staff
                                                                                                                  Hi Glenn...Thanks for the info. I'm working at CSX, and we had a rule
                                                                                                                  for working the vertical staff brake wheels, which they call horizontal
                                                                                                                  (staff) drop-shaft hand brakes. (I've only seen them on models.) The
                                                                                                                  rule involved grabbing the wheel with both hands and lifting while
                                                                                                                  using your foot to lock it in the extended position, and making sure
                                                                                                                  the pawl engages the ratchet. In the new rule, all it says is don't
                                                                                                                  try to operate them on a moving train or use if the pawl doesn't
                                                                                                                  engage. I expect that these cars are long gone, except possibly in
                                                                                                                  work train service. Richie O

                                                                                                                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > Back in the days before the power handbrake (the ones with the wheel
                                                                                                                  or lever mounted to a gearbox, the brake wheel was mounted at the top
                                                                                                                  of a long staff,
                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1651 From: Imp Ster Date: 10/16/2006
                                                                                                                  Subject: re, real vintage item! A Picture of an idiot's Blue Box!!
                                                                                                                  well, it's official - that village in Texas that was missing the
                                                                                                                  idiot? ...mystery solved, the idiot was found on ebay.

                                                                                                                  tnx to all who posted updated links to that chimp's sale, it was
                                                                                                                  great humor for a dull Monday afternoon.
                                                                                                                  it seems evident that person is suffering from aspartame dementia.
                                                                                                                  (or, it could be the encephalitis which i hear is rife in thatshyere
                                                                                                                  part o' Texas.)

                                                                                                                  myself, have been known to overpay for classic Athearns that i could
                                                                                                                  convert to flywheel ops.
                                                                                                                  just goes ta show, ya cant put a price on sentiment, right? (snark
                                                                                                                  snark)

                                                                                                                  btw, since Ebay buggrd PayPal into being the "official" payment
                                                                                                                  system, those of you who do use PayPal might want to troll some of
                                                                                                                  the horror stories at http://www.paypalsucks.com/
                                                                                                                  "As for the customer service, Sollitto said they intentionally make
                                                                                                                  the phone number very difficult to find in order to save costs."

                                                                                                                  change in this case does not equate progress.

                                                                                                                  cheers

                                                                                                                  ...
                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1652 From: Glenn Date: 10/16/2006
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Brake wheel staff
                                                                                                                  Actually, if yoiu want to see vertical staff (horizontal-wheel) hand brakes in use, ride a freight on the Cumbres and Toltec. 
                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                  Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 6:20 AM
                                                                                                                  Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Brake wheel staff

                                                                                                                  Hi Glenn...Thanks for the info. I'm working at CSX, and we had a rule
                                                                                                                  for working the vertical staff brake wheels, which they call horizontal
                                                                                                                  (staff) drop-shaft hand brakes. (I've only seen them on models.) The
                                                                                                                  rule involved grabbing the wheel with both hands and lifting while
                                                                                                                  using your foot to lock it in the extended position, and making sure
                                                                                                                  the pawl engages the ratchet. In the new rule, all it says is don't
                                                                                                                  try to operate them on a moving train or use if the pawl doesn't
                                                                                                                  engage. I expect that these cars are long gone, except possibly in
                                                                                                                  work train service. Richie O

                                                                                                                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@.. .> wrote:
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > Back in the days before the power handbrake (the ones with the wheel
                                                                                                                  or lever mounted to a gearbox, the brake wheel was mounted at the top
                                                                                                                  of a long staff,

                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1653 From: Glenn Date: 10/16/2006
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Brake wheel staff
                                                                                                                  Got one at each end of the caboose I work on--ex GN wood car--I imagine that the drop-typw wheels are used on flat cars for over-length loads, or the idlers used with them. But--the tank cars that prompted the question were among the last to be equipped with power hand brakes.  Gene Green had a clinic on power hand brakes at an NMRA convention--the clinic may still be available on the DVD's from NMRA HQ.
                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                  Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 6:20 AM
                                                                                                                  Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Brake wheel staff

                                                                                                                  Hi Glenn...Thanks for the info. I'm working at CSX, and we had a rule
                                                                                                                  for working the vertical staff brake wheels, which they call horizontal
                                                                                                                  (staff) drop-shaft hand brakes. (I've only seen them on models.) The
                                                                                                                  rule involved grabbing the wheel with both hands and lifting while
                                                                                                                  using your foot to lock it in the extended position, and making sure
                                                                                                                  the pawl engages the ratchet. In the new rule, all it says is don't
                                                                                                                  try to operate them on a moving train or use if the pawl doesn't
                                                                                                                  engage. I expect that these cars are long gone, except possibly in
                                                                                                                  work train service. Richie O

                                                                                                                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@.. .> wrote:
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > Back in the days before the power handbrake (the ones with the wheel
                                                                                                                  or lever mounted to a gearbox, the brake wheel was mounted at the top
                                                                                                                  of a long staff,

                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1654 From: Gerry D Date: 10/16/2006
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item! A Picture of a Box?
                                                                                                                  OK, I see the twist now!
                                                                                                                  Sentimental value; (accent on the "mental"...)
                                                                                                                  He says in the fine print:

                                                                                                                  Ok This is my train and if you want this train , all
                                                                                                                  you do is pay .I will not answer any more Emails from
                                                                                                                  Anyone on this Auction. I have bent over to make it
                                                                                                                  right. This is Usually what Happpens on Ebay when you
                                                                                                                  actually have something of value. Its Funny , I feel
                                                                                                                  for You, The person that wants this wants this for a
                                                                                                                  reason. I priced this as I see fit. This was mine . AT
                                                                                                                  7 Years Old I am 46 Now.

                                                                                                                  He talks cryptically of a "train" and shows an engine.

                                                                                                                  He also talks of another...

                                                                                                                  The guy is selling a piece of his youth and thinks
                                                                                                                  someone will pay for it.
                                                                                                                  Well, more power to him if he gets it.

                                                                                                                  But did you notice his "other" auctions? from .99 !!!

                                                                                                                  --- Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                  > The whole thing takes on a new twist!!! He has now
                                                                                                                  > raised his price to $1,500, and raised the freight
                                                                                                                  > to $40.20. He does not take criticism very well,
                                                                                                                  > takes good advice even better yet!!
                                                                                                                  > What a joke.
                                                                                                                  > Wobbly913
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                  > Dear Ray,
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > Thank you-I finally saw the thing as portrayed on
                                                                                                                  > eBay. I saw that price and the picture-what a crock?
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > Ray Hobin <tcol@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                  > On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 Dale Smith wrote:
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > >The item is still up. The link didn't work for me
                                                                                                                  > either, so I just copied in the item number and
                                                                                                                  > searched that way and got to this link.
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220033734177
                                                                                                                  > I think there are some extraneous characters
                                                                                                                  > inserted in the link and the V in View is missing.
                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                  > >He has also really jacked up the shipping to
                                                                                                                  > $37.05. How he came up with the 5 cents is a bit
                                                                                                                  > odd. He is sticking to his guns, hoping for a
                                                                                                                  > sucker. He says he is a collector, but if you look
                                                                                                                  > at his profile and other auctions, it seems he is a
                                                                                                                  > "stamp" collector. Nothing else in this rarefied
                                                                                                                  > range though.
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > He sounds like an "el cheapo" individual...IMO, were
                                                                                                                  > he to get the reserve
                                                                                                                  > or starting bid, he should include free shipping.
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > Ray H.
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                                  > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make
                                                                                                                  > PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                  > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                                  > Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check
                                                                                                                  > it out.


                                                                                                                  __________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1655 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 10/16/2006
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Here's a real vintage item! A Picture of a Box?


                                                                                                                   Although I think the price this guy is asking for a 1966 version of an Athearn SD45 is way out of line. It is a rare loco.
                                                                                                                   The first runs of the SD45s had a different set of trucks under them than what most are familiar to. Look at the sideframes.
                                                                                                                   I dought that they are worth much more if any than any other SD45, but they are scarcer in number. That style sideframe would be used if you wanted to model a Pennsy SD45.



                                                                                                                  Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                  Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail.
                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1656 From: Imp Ster Date: 10/17/2006
                                                                                                                  Subject: RANT da 2nd: a Bowser K-11, back from the dead
                                                                                                                  lured back to the Q-Town depot club by promises of freshly donated HO
                                                                                                                  junque to paw through (astute readers will recall the glorious bridge-
                                                                                                                  burning of yore by yours truly not so long ago), my pard waves a
                                                                                                                  musty old box under my nose and sez "see, see, looky what i got here,
                                                                                                                  something YOU want but maybe YOu cant have" etc etc.

                                                                                                                  well, Scripshure Sez, th' Devil tempts each of us by the thing we
                                                                                                                  have the least will to resist.
                                                                                                                  in this case, it's a crusty half-assembled Bowser K-11 Pacific, minus
                                                                                                                  any shred of plans.
                                                                                                                  at first glance, it appears just another pile of scrap, even as we
                                                                                                                  oooh and ahh over the several brass investments already attached.
                                                                                                                  shaking the box produces a veritable wave of tiny screws and vaguely
                                                                                                                  familiar parts...
                                                                                                                  but miracle of miracles, it's all there, even if in bits and pieces.
                                                                                                                  right down to the clamp-on eccentric cranks.

                                                                                                                  well it's the morning after the night before, and the K-11 is
                                                                                                                  basicaly complete now.
                                                                                                                  it even had a few moments of running time, but that motor is heating
                                                                                                                  something fierce (shades of the Hades i thought i left behind? -
                                                                                                                  hawhaw, if the Mike was Heaven-sent, this old Pacific might have come
                                                                                                                  from another region, if the mojo heat from the motor armature is any
                                                                                                                  indication)

                                                                                                                  ah'm a-thinkin i can change the motor to an Athearn standard, just to
                                                                                                                  keep things simple.

                                                                                                                  to be continued...

                                                                                                                  ...
                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1657 From: Richard Okrosy Date: 10/17/2006
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Brake wheel staff
                                                                                                                  I don't see them on new equipment. Possibly they break or bend too
                                                                                                                  easily, just like on the models. Richie O
                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1658 From: Glenn Date: 10/18/2006
                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Brake wheel staff
                                                                                                                  no--many years ago the ICC mandated "power hand brakes"--meaning those with a reduction gearbox that amplifies the cranking of the brakewheel or lever. This eliminated the simple "wind the chain on the staff" handbrakes.
                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                  Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 4:47 PM
                                                                                                                  Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Brake wheel staff

                                                                                                                  I don't see them on new equipment. Possibly they break or bend too
                                                                                                                  easily, just like on the models. Richie O

                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1659 From: Roger Aultman Date: 10/27/2006
                                                                                                                  Subject: Hobbyline 0-4-0
                                                                                                                  Attachments :
                                                                                                                    Just received this Hobbyline switcher, it is a very good runner.
                                                                                                                    Roger Aultman




                                                                                                                    --
                                                                                                                    http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

                                                                                                                    Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1660 From: Imp Ster Date: 10/28/2006
                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Hobbyline 0-4-0 page (JE Mike)
                                                                                                                    greets, by 0-4-0's, do you mean the H-10's ?
                                                                                                                    heheheh, why am i reminded of an 0-5-0 switcher?
                                                                                                                    (great webpage, btw - it was nice to see another pic of a JE Mike, as
                                                                                                                    seen there
                                                                                                                    http://www.nconnect.net/%7Eraul/je2-8-2.jpg )

                                                                                                                    Mike Madness: i have nearly finshed restoring the specimen that came my
                                                                                                                    way; added a brass (conducting on one side) wheelset to the pilot
                                                                                                                    truck, but still waiting to find just the right slighy-oversized
                                                                                                                    trailing truck wheelset (in metal, to dramaticaly improve the
                                                                                                                    electrical pickup "footprint")
                                                                                                                    i may have to settle for a grotesque Fleischmann wheelset that came out
                                                                                                                    of a EU diesel, which has a relatively similar axle stock... i may have
                                                                                                                    to turn down the Euro flanges a bit.
                                                                                                                    with all the fine tooling that generally went into the typical JE
                                                                                                                    product, it's a bit of a disappointment to see how plain the trailing
                                                                                                                    truck casting is.
                                                                                                                    and those plastic wheelsets! - ACK and UGH!
                                                                                                                    oh well, gives us something to carp about and work on, eh?

                                                                                                                    ...

                                                                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Roger Aultman <raul@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                    > --
                                                                                                                    > http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1661 From: Roger Aultman Date: 10/28/2006
                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Hobbyline 0-4-0 page (JE Mike)
                                                                                                                    I had a picture attached to the email it perhaps was removed somewhere
                                                                                                                    along the way. There are pictures of my two Hobbyline plastic 0-4-0's
                                                                                                                    in my album. The JE mike I have runs fair, but needs cosmetic work. Roger




                                                                                                                    Imp Ster wrote:
                                                                                                                    > greets, by 0-4-0's, do you mean the H-10's ?
                                                                                                                    > heheheh, why am i reminded of an 0-5-0 switcher?
                                                                                                                    > (great webpage, btw - it was nice to see another pic of a JE Mike, as
                                                                                                                    > seen there
                                                                                                                    > http://www.nconnect.net/%7Eraul/je2-8-2.jpg )
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > Mike Madness: i have nearly finshed restoring the specimen that came my
                                                                                                                    > way; added a brass (conducting on one side) wheelset to the pilot
                                                                                                                    > truck, but still waiting to find just the right slighy-oversized
                                                                                                                    > trailing truck wheelset (in metal, to dramaticaly improve the
                                                                                                                    > electrical pickup "footprint")
                                                                                                                    > i may have to settle for a grotesque Fleischmann wheelset that came out
                                                                                                                    > of a EU diesel, which has a relatively similar axle stock... i may have
                                                                                                                    > to turn down the Euro flanges a bit.
                                                                                                                    > with all the fine tooling that generally went into the typical JE
                                                                                                                    > product, it's a bit of a disappointment to see how plain the trailing
                                                                                                                    > truck casting is.
                                                                                                                    > and those plastic wheelsets! - ACK and UGH!
                                                                                                                    > oh well, gives us something to carp about and work on, eh?
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > ....
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Roger Aultman <raul@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    >>--
                                                                                                                    >>http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm
                                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    >


                                                                                                                    --
                                                                                                                    http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

                                                                                                                    Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1662 From: Imp Ster Date: 10/29/2006
                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Hobbyline 0-4-0 page (JE Mike)
                                                                                                                    ah so, no wonder i didnt see the pic, as i only get the 'digest'
                                                                                                                    which does not contain the attached images.
                                                                                                                    Yahoo no longer stores attachs in Group lists, mores the pity.
                                                                                                                    so will snoop about the Photo archives in VintageHO to see what
                                                                                                                    betides.

                                                                                                                    btw i am seing a fair amount of flash glare in some of your pix.
                                                                                                                    an old photograpers trick when using flash is to angle the
                                                                                                                    flash/camera slightly instead of shooting straight on, this way you
                                                                                                                    get plenty of light but no direct reflection.

                                                                                                                    greatly enjoyed your web pages!
                                                                                                                    looking fwd to more pix of the JE Mike when you get'r dressed for
                                                                                                                    show.

                                                                                                                    ...

                                                                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Roger Aultman <raul@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    picture attached to the email it perhaps was removed

                                                                                                                    There are pictures of my two Hobbyline plastic 0-4-0's
                                                                                                                    > in my album. The JE mike I have runs fair, but needs cosmetic
                                                                                                                    work.
                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1663 From: Roger Aultman Date: 10/29/2006
                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Hobbyline 0-4-0 page (JE Mike)
                                                                                                                    Hello Imp Ster Am trying to improve on the pix, got to get to work on
                                                                                                                    the mike, the drive is just fair and the cosmetics need plenty of work.
                                                                                                                    Roger





                                                                                                                    Imp Ster wrote:
                                                                                                                    > ah so, no wonder i didnt see the pic, as i only get the 'digest'
                                                                                                                    > which does not contain the attached images.
                                                                                                                    > Yahoo no longer stores attachs in Group lists, mores the pity.
                                                                                                                    > so will snoop about the Photo archives in VintageHO to see what
                                                                                                                    > betides.
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > btw i am seing a fair amount of flash glare in some of your pix.
                                                                                                                    > an old photograpers trick when using flash is to angle the
                                                                                                                    > flash/camera slightly instead of shooting straight on, this way you
                                                                                                                    > get plenty of light but no direct reflection.
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > greatly enjoyed your web pages!
                                                                                                                    > looking fwd to more pix of the JE Mike when you get'r dressed for
                                                                                                                    > show.
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > ...
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Roger Aultman <raul@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > picture attached to the email it perhaps was removed
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > There are pictures of my two Hobbyline plastic 0-4-0's
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    >>in my album. The JE mike I have runs fair, but needs cosmetic
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > work.
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    >


                                                                                                                    --
                                                                                                                    http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

                                                                                                                    Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1664 From: Imp Ster Date: 11/9/2006
                                                                                                                    Subject: layout webcam coming soon
                                                                                                                    greetings fellow operators of vintage HO.

                                                                                                                    as da imp has been laid low, so shall he rise again.
                                                                                                                    preparations continue for new house-wide HO layout project.
                                                                                                                    2 tracks will connect the back-room train office (existing layout
                                                                                                                    portraying the port of Quantico on the transition-era RF&P)... to the
                                                                                                                    Potomac Yard hump-yard module planned in the living room area.
                                                                                                                    interested webcam spectators may view construction process as it
                                                                                                                    happens room by room.
                                                                                                                    watch this space for details.

                                                                                                                    meanwhile,
                                                                                                                    the coffee yard camera should be online this weekend sometime.

                                                                                                                    cheers

                                                                                                                    ...
                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1665 From: Larry Date: 11/13/2006
                                                                                                                    Subject: Diagrams and Information Added
                                                                                                                    Thought I would inform everyone here that I have been making many
                                                                                                                    updates to HOseeker.net. There are numerous old diagrams, catalogs,
                                                                                                                    and sales lists dated from the late 1940's to the early 1960's
                                                                                                                    included in these additions. To list a few: Blue Line, Globe,
                                                                                                                    Lindsay, Hobbytown, Railmaster, Thomas Industries, Silver Streak,
                                                                                                                    Kato, Penn Line and more.

                                                                                                                    http://www.hoseeker.net/lit.html

                                                                                                                    I am having difficulty dating some of this information. Much of this
                                                                                                                    material was not dated. I do know everything about trains, so if you
                                                                                                                    find a mistake or know when this information was published, please
                                                                                                                    send me an email. I would like to keep HOseeker.net as accurate and
                                                                                                                    correct as possible.

                                                                                                                    Also, if any of the members here at VintageHO has any additional
                                                                                                                    material not listed within the Website, contact me about displaying
                                                                                                                    your images.

                                                                                                                    Hope everyone enjoys the pages that have been added.

                                                                                                                    Larry
                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1666 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 11/13/2006
                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Diagrams and Information Added
                                                                                                                    Larry,
                                                                                                                    Outstanding!  I would like to include a link to your site on Yardbird's website.  I have many customers asking for this type of info.  I have currently been sending info and copies via mail.  This would be a great help.
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                    Dan Bush - Yardbird Classic Trains
                                                                                                                    www.yardbirdtrains.com
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                    From: Larry
                                                                                                                    Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 9:17 AM
                                                                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] Diagrams and Information Added

                                                                                                                    Thought I would inform everyone here that I have been making many
                                                                                                                    updates to HOseeker.net. There are numerous old diagrams, catalogs,
                                                                                                                    and sales lists dated from the late 1940's to the early 1960's
                                                                                                                    included in these additions. To list a few: Blue Line, Globe,
                                                                                                                    Lindsay, Hobbytown, Railmaster, Thomas Industries, Silver Streak,
                                                                                                                    Kato, Penn Line and more.

                                                                                                                    http://www.hoseeker .net/lit. html

                                                                                                                    I am having difficulty dating some of this information. Much of this
                                                                                                                    material was not dated. I do know everything about trains, so if you
                                                                                                                    find a mistake or know when this information was published, please
                                                                                                                    send me an email. I would like to keep HOseeker.net as accurate and
                                                                                                                    correct as possible.

                                                                                                                    Also, if any of the members here at VintageHO has any additional
                                                                                                                    material not listed within the Website, contact me about displaying
                                                                                                                    your images.

                                                                                                                    Hope everyone enjoys the pages that have been added.

                                                                                                                    Larry

                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1667 From: Larry Date: 11/13/2006
                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Diagrams and Information Added
                                                                                                                    Dan

                                                                                                                    No problem about adding the link to your Yard Bird Trains website.
                                                                                                                    Also contact me off list about including your link at different
                                                                                                                    pages within HOseeker.net. Such as the Mantua and Varney Diagram
                                                                                                                    Pages. I believe my email address is in my profile here.

                                                                                                                    I would like to make a correction to my last message: I do NOT know
                                                                                                                    everything about HO trains. I do need to proof read better. Look
                                                                                                                    at what leaving out one word like NOT does...sheeesh.. LOL

                                                                                                                    Larry


                                                                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Yardbird Trains" <danrbush@...>
                                                                                                                    wrote:
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > Larry,
                                                                                                                    > Outstanding! I would like to include a link to your site on
                                                                                                                    Yardbird's website. I have many customers asking for this type of
                                                                                                                    info. I have currently been sending info and copies via mail. This
                                                                                                                    would be a great help.
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > Dan Bush - Yardbird Classic Trains
                                                                                                                    > www.yardbirdtrains.com
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                    > From: Larry
                                                                                                                    > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                    > Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 9:17 AM
                                                                                                                    > Subject: [vintageHO] Diagrams and Information Added
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > Thought I would inform everyone here that I have been making
                                                                                                                    many
                                                                                                                    > updates to HOseeker.net. There are numerous old diagrams,
                                                                                                                    catalogs,
                                                                                                                    > and sales lists dated from the late 1940's to the early 1960's
                                                                                                                    > included in these additions. To list a few: Blue Line, Globe,
                                                                                                                    > Lindsay, Hobbytown, Railmaster, Thomas Industries, Silver
                                                                                                                    Streak,
                                                                                                                    > Kato, Penn Line and more.
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > http://www.hoseeker.net/lit.html
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > I am having difficulty dating some of this information. Much of
                                                                                                                    this
                                                                                                                    > material was not dated. I do not know everything about trains,
                                                                                                                    so if
                                                                                                                    you
                                                                                                                    > find a mistake or know when this information was published,
                                                                                                                    please
                                                                                                                    > send me an email. I would like to keep HOseeker.net as accurate
                                                                                                                    and
                                                                                                                    > correct as possible.
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > Also, if any of the members here at VintageHO has any additional
                                                                                                                    > material not listed within the Website, contact me about
                                                                                                                    displaying
                                                                                                                    > your images.
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > Hope everyone enjoys the pages that have been added.
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > Larry
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1668 From: engineer18762 Date: 11/14/2006
                                                                                                                    Subject: Disney Open Air Coaches
                                                                                                                    I'm trying to find out who made these? I believe they came out of a set, & the set box was red. Made in the late 1980's to mid 1990's. If anyone has any info it would be apprecitated.
                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1669 From: John Barlow Date: 11/14/2006
                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Disney Open Air Coaches
                                                                                                                    I vaguely remember those...only a few here in Denver when I saw them. I might be way off, but I honestly think KATO made them. They ran on N Scale track, as I remember...or am I wrong?
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                    John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)

                                                                                                                    engineer18762 <engineer18762@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                    I'm trying to find out who made these? I believe they came out of a set, & the set box was red. Made in the late 1980's to mid 1990's. If anyone has any info it would be apprecitated.



                                                                                                                    Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.

                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1670 From: tomvanhoy Date: 11/14/2006
                                                                                                                    Subject: Box cab info help?
                                                                                                                    Hi,
                                                                                                                    I picked up a box cab in need of some TLC this past weekend.
                                                                                                                    It has a wooden roof with attached details, a tin plate body and a
                                                                                                                    DC-60 motor on a power truck. It is missing some sort of front end.
                                                                                                                    I have looked thru some 50's RMC's, but no luck. Any suggestions on
                                                                                                                    where to find some info on it.
                                                                                                                    Thanks,
                                                                                                                    Tom
                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1671 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/15/2006
                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Box cab info help?
                                                                                                                    Sounds almost like a vintage traction piece. Can you attach a picture to a
                                                                                                                    message or put it on the group photo page?

                                                                                                                    Don

                                                                                                                    don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                                    http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                                    Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                    Co-moderator
                                                                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY


                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                    From: tomvanhoy
                                                                                                                    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                    Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 8:45 PM
                                                                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] Box cab info help?


                                                                                                                    Hi,
                                                                                                                    I picked up a box cab in need of some TLC this past weekend.
                                                                                                                    It has a wooden roof with attached details, a tin plate body and a
                                                                                                                    DC-60 motor on a power truck. It is missing some sort of front end.
                                                                                                                    I have looked thru some 50's RMC's, but no luck. Any suggestions on
                                                                                                                    where to find some info on it.
                                                                                                                    Thanks,
                                                                                                                    Tom
                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1672 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 11/15/2006
                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Box cab info help?

                                                                                                                    It sounds typical of a Walthers kit, but all I remember is their “doodlebug” which was about 70 feet in length.  Typical also of that type construction, the cab front was probably a die cast (lead or lead alloy) piece.  Don’t rule out that someone may have “kitbashed” your model from several sources of materials, as was a pretty common thing to get what you wanted back then.  Good luck on ID’ing it; let us all know if you do come up with something.  Regards,  JerryG.

                                                                                                                     


                                                                                                                    From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of tomvanhoy
                                                                                                                    Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 8:46 PM
                                                                                                                    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] Box cab info help?

                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                    Hi,
                                                                                                                    I picked up a box cab in need of some TLC this past weekend.
                                                                                                                    It has a wooden roof with attached details, a tin plate body and a
                                                                                                                    DC-60 motor on a power truck. It is missing some sort of front end.
                                                                                                                    I have looked thru some 50's RMC's, but no luck. Any suggestions on
                                                                                                                    where to find some info on it.
                                                                                                                    Thanks,
                                                                                                                    Tom

                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1673 From: Bill Date: 11/15/2006
                                                                                                                    Subject: MDC Parts
                                                                                                                    I all,

                                                                                                                    Would anyone know where I could get a frame for a MDC/Roundhouse 4-
                                                                                                                    6-0 steamer at a reasonable price? Please contact off list.

                                                                                                                    Thanks

                                                                                                                    Bill Lyle
                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1674 From: Glenn Date: 11/15/2006
                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Box cab info help?
                                                                                                                    A wild guess would be to see if you can find an old Walthers (or Selley copy) EMC gas-electric front end casting. It sounds Walthers. 
                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                    From: tomvanhoy
                                                                                                                    Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 6:45 PM
                                                                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] Box cab info help?

                                                                                                                    Hi,
                                                                                                                    I picked up a box cab in need of some TLC this past weekend.
                                                                                                                    It has a wooden roof with attached details, a tin plate body and a
                                                                                                                    DC-60 motor on a power truck. It is missing some sort of front end.
                                                                                                                    I have looked thru some 50's RMC's, but no luck. Any suggestions on
                                                                                                                    where to find some info on it.
                                                                                                                    Thanks,
                                                                                                                    Tom

                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1675 From: tomvanhoy Date: 11/15/2006
                                                                                                                    Subject: boxcab help
                                                                                                                    Thanks for the info! I will try to post a pic this weekend.
                                                                                                                    Tom
                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1676 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 11/16/2006
                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Box cab info help?
                                                                                                                    Glenn,
                                                                                                                    About all I have are some re-cast variations of the Kemtron type Lil' Joe CFwd piece.  We've modified them for many projects, but not sure on yours. 
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                    Dan Bush
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                    From: Glenn
                                                                                                                    Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 6:49 PM
                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Box cab info help?

                                                                                                                    A wild guess would be to see if you can find an old Walthers (or Selley copy) EMC gas-electric front end casting. It sounds Walthers. 
                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                    From: tomvanhoy
                                                                                                                    Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 6:45 PM
                                                                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] Box cab info help?

                                                                                                                    Hi,
                                                                                                                    I picked up a box cab in need of some TLC this past weekend.
                                                                                                                    It has a wooden roof with attached details, a tin plate body and a
                                                                                                                    DC-60 motor on a power truck. It is missing some sort of front end.
                                                                                                                    I have looked thru some 50's RMC's, but no luck. Any suggestions on
                                                                                                                    where to find some info on it.
                                                                                                                    Thanks,
                                                                                                                    Tom

                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1677 From: rsmedude Date: 11/16/2006
                                                                                                                    Subject: Home Page Picture
                                                                                                                    Hey Guys,

                                                                                                                    I wanted to know who ownes the layout that the picture on the main
                                                                                                                    page is from? reason i ask is cause i wanted to ask if i am seeing
                                                                                                                    that correctly that there is a "nights sky" background? I am
                                                                                                                    interested in some information about that cause i think its a cool and
                                                                                                                    diffrent concept to go with. If the person that made that layout and
                                                                                                                    or that backdrop could contact me i would greatly appriciate it.

                                                                                                                    Respectfully,
                                                                                                                    James
                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1678 From: rsmedude Date: 11/16/2006
                                                                                                                    Subject: Looking for a Boxcar
                                                                                                                    Hey everyone,

                                                                                                                    How is everyone doing. I am looking for a boxcar. I dont think there
                                                                                                                    that old but i know there on the older side. The boxcar i am looking
                                                                                                                    for is a Jailbox boxcar. it is painted up and lettered to mimic the
                                                                                                                    Railbox cars. Iside of it there is a "dude" in blocks and the door
                                                                                                                    looks like iron doors on a jail cell.

                                                                                                                    My one buddy has one and i have always thought this was a pretty neet
                                                                                                                    car and a good one to throw into a train just to get some conversation
                                                                                                                    going. I also just think its a fun car and fun to see how many people
                                                                                                                    catch while its runing around the track.

                                                                                                                    Mainly in short i would like to know who made this car and maybe here
                                                                                                                    i could get one.

                                                                                                                    Thanks for the help guys

                                                                                                                    Respectfully,
                                                                                                                    James
                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1679 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/16/2006
                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Home Page Picture
                                                                                                                    One of our members, "Da Impster" uploaded that to the files last spring, and at the time I said "hey, remind me to putr that on the home page around Christmas time", well, for those who don't regularly visit the page, I remembered by myself. <G>.  Anyway, imp, when you read this, James would like to know how you did the picture.
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                    Don
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                    From: rsmedude
                                                                                                                    Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 7:28 AM
                                                                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] Home Page Picture

                                                                                                                    Hey Guys,

                                                                                                                    I wanted to know who ownes the layout that the picture on the main
                                                                                                                    page is from? reason i ask is cause i wanted to ask if i am seeing
                                                                                                                    that correctly that there is a "nights sky" background? I am
                                                                                                                    interested in some information about that cause i think its a cool and
                                                                                                                    diffrent concept to go with. If the person that made that layout and
                                                                                                                    or that backdrop could contact me i would greatly appriciate it.

                                                                                                                    Respectfully,
                                                                                                                    James

                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1680 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/16/2006
                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Looking for a Boxcar
                                                                                                                    That was done back in the late 70's, early 80's by Walthers as paret of their "toingue in cheek" series.  It's not currently available, the only place you'd find one would be a swap meet or on eBay.  The Walthers part number was 933-6854.
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                    I don't have time now, (I'm on my lunch hour) but tonight I'll do a scan of the catalog page for you.
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                    Don
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                    From: rsmedude
                                                                                                                    Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 7:27 AM
                                                                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] Looking for a Boxcar

                                                                                                                    Hey everyone,

                                                                                                                    How is everyone doing. I am looking for a boxcar. I dont think there
                                                                                                                    that old but i know there on the older side. The boxcar i am looking
                                                                                                                    for is a Jailbox boxcar. it is painted up and lettered to mimic the
                                                                                                                    Railbox cars. Iside of it there is a "dude" in blocks and the door
                                                                                                                    looks like iron doors on a jail cell.

                                                                                                                    My one buddy has one and i have always thought this was a pretty neet
                                                                                                                    car and a good one to throw into a train just to get some conversation
                                                                                                                    going. I also just think its a fun car and fun to see how many people
                                                                                                                    catch while its runing around the track.

                                                                                                                    Mainly in short i would like to know who made this car and maybe here
                                                                                                                    i could get one.

                                                                                                                    Thanks for the help guys

                                                                                                                    Respectfully,
                                                                                                                    James

                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1681 From: John Barlow Date: 11/16/2006
                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Home Page Picture...Going into That Good Night
                                                                                                                    Dear Jim,
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                    Operating in various shades of daylight (or night) may be possible with something called "City Lights 2.0", advertised by Doc's Caboose, Inc., in the Kansas Cityy area. Please check www.docscaboose.com to see and read of the item. It lists for $179.95, but Doc's is asking $149.95 for it on sale. It provides gradations of light over a layout. As for background, other technologies may be incorporated with a layout. I once read how John Allen employed black lighting as well.
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                    John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)

                                                                                                                    rsmedude <jwilliams@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                    Hey Guys,

                                                                                                                    I wanted to know who ownes the layout that the picture on the main
                                                                                                                    page is from? reason i ask is cause i wanted to ask if i am seeing
                                                                                                                    that correctly that there is a "nights sky" background? I am
                                                                                                                    interested in some information about that cause i think its a cool and
                                                                                                                    diffrent concept to go with. If the person that made that layout and
                                                                                                                    or that backdrop could contact me i would greatly appriciate it.

                                                                                                                    Respectfully,
                                                                                                                    James



                                                                                                                    Sponsored Link

                                                                                                                    Mortgage rates near 39yr lows. $510,000 Mortgage for $1,698/mo - Calculate new house payment

                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1682 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 11/16/2006
                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Home Page Picture...Going into That Good Night
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                    Dan Bush - Yardbird Classic Trains
                                                                                                                    Check our new additions and discussion group at:
                                                                                                                    www.yardbirdtrains.com
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                    Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 2:56 PM
                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Home Page Picture...Going into That Good Night

                                                                                                                    Dear Jim,
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                    Operating in various shades of daylight (or night) may be possible with something called "City Lights 2.0", advertised by Doc's Caboose, Inc., in the Kansas Cityy area. Please check www.docscaboose. com to see and read of the item. It lists for $179.95, but Doc's is asking $149.95 for it on sale. It provides gradations of light over a layout. As for background, other technologies may be incorporated with a layout. I once read how John Allen employed black lighting as well.
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                    John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)

                                                                                                                    rsmedude <jwilliams@rsme. dyndns.org> wrote:
                                                                                                                    Hey Guys,

                                                                                                                    I wanted to know who ownes the layout that the picture on the main
                                                                                                                    page is from? reason i ask is cause i wanted to ask if i am seeing
                                                                                                                    that correctly that there is a "nights sky" background? I am
                                                                                                                    interested in some information about that cause i think its a cool and
                                                                                                                    diffrent concept to go with. If the person that made that layout and
                                                                                                                    or that backdrop could contact me i would greatly appriciate it.

                                                                                                                    Respectfully,
                                                                                                                    James



                                                                                                                    Sponsored Link

                                                                                                                    Mortgage rates near 39yr lows. $510,000 Mortgage for $1,698/mo - Calculate new house payment

                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1683 From: Dan Bush Date: 11/16/2006
                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Home Page Picture
                                                                                                                    I did a similar pic under our Christmas tree one year with a large
                                                                                                                    scale train and village. Our tree was loaded with tinsel and when I
                                                                                                                    took the shot, all of the tinsel around it flashed like that in the
                                                                                                                    Da Imp's pic. It made it look like stars everywhere.
                                                                                                                    That's a neat scene!

                                                                                                                    Dan B

                                                                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
                                                                                                                    wrote:
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > One of our members, "Da Impster" uploaded that to the files last
                                                                                                                    spring, and at the time I said "hey, remind me to putr that on the
                                                                                                                    home page around Christmas time", well, for those who don't regularly
                                                                                                                    visit the page, I remembered by myself. <G>. Anyway, imp, when you
                                                                                                                    read this, James would like to know how you did the picture.
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > Don
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                                    > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                                    > Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                    > Co-moderator
                                                                                                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                    > From: rsmedude
                                                                                                                    > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                    > Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 7:28 AM
                                                                                                                    > Subject: [vintageHO] Home Page Picture
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > Hey Guys,
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > I wanted to know who ownes the layout that the picture on the main
                                                                                                                    > page is from? reason i ask is cause i wanted to ask if i am seeing
                                                                                                                    > that correctly that there is a "nights sky" background? I am
                                                                                                                    > interested in some information about that cause i think its a
                                                                                                                    cool and
                                                                                                                    > diffrent concept to go with. If the person that made that layout
                                                                                                                    and
                                                                                                                    > or that backdrop could contact me i would greatly appriciate it.
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > Respectfully,
                                                                                                                    > James
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1684 From: rsmedude Date: 11/16/2006
                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Home Page Picture...Going into That Good Night
                                                                                                                    Thanks for the Info... I am in the process of antign to build a
                                                                                                                    Modular layout sometime. I saw another night scene and this night
                                                                                                                    scene I started to think wow thats pretty neat and diffrent. I just
                                                                                                                    recently purchased a camera to put into a car. I primarily got it for
                                                                                                                    up at my model Railroad club but would like to mess with it for myself
                                                                                                                    too. What I was thinking is if I would go with a night scene I would
                                                                                                                    actually make a "front" and "back" splash in night scene so that when
                                                                                                                    I take a video it would look as authentic as possible.

                                                                                                                    respectfully,
                                                                                                                    james

                                                                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > Dear Jim,
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > Operating in various shades of daylight (or night) may be possible
                                                                                                                    with something called "City Lights 2.0", advertised by Doc's Caboose,
                                                                                                                    Inc., in the Kansas Cityy area. Please check www.docscaboose.com to
                                                                                                                    see and read of the item. It lists for $179.95, but Doc's is asking
                                                                                                                    $149.95 for it on sale. It provides gradations of light over a layout.
                                                                                                                    As for background, other technologies may be incorporated with a
                                                                                                                    layout. I once read how John Allen employed black lighting as well.
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > rsmedude <jwilliams@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                    > Hey Guys,
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > I wanted to know who ownes the layout that the picture on the main
                                                                                                                    > page is from? reason i ask is cause i wanted to ask if i am seeing
                                                                                                                    > that correctly that there is a "nights sky" background? I am
                                                                                                                    > interested in some information about that cause i think its a cool and
                                                                                                                    > diffrent concept to go with. If the person that made that layout and
                                                                                                                    > or that backdrop could contact me i would greatly appriciate it.
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > Respectfully,
                                                                                                                    > James
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                                    > Sponsored Link
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > Mortgage rates near 39yr lows. $510,000 Mortgage for $1,698/mo -
                                                                                                                    Calculate new house payment
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1685 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 11/16/2006
                                                                                                                    Subject: trains
                                                                                                                    Hi Guys:   Where can I  got plans  Mantua 4-6-2 ?
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                       Ray L
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                    I had a Stroke


                                                                                                                    Sponsored Link

                                                                                                                    $420,000 Mortgage for $1,399/month - Think You Pay Too Much For Your Mortgage? Find Out!
                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1686 From: rsmedude Date: 11/16/2006
                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Looking for a Boxcar
                                                                                                                    when you get a chance to upload that information please hit me with an
                                                                                                                    email or reply to this thread and let me know where you uploaded it
                                                                                                                    to... i would be interested in seeing it.

                                                                                                                    :) thanx

                                                                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > That was done back in the late 70's, early 80's by Walthers as paret
                                                                                                                    of their "toingue in cheek" series. It's not currently available, the
                                                                                                                    only place you'd find one would be a swap meet or on eBay. The
                                                                                                                    Walthers part number was 933-6854.
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > I don't have time now, (I'm on my lunch hour) but tonight I'll do a
                                                                                                                    scan of the catalog page for you.
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > Don
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                                    > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                                    > Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                    > Co-moderator
                                                                                                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                    > From: rsmedude
                                                                                                                    > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                    > Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 7:27 AM
                                                                                                                    > Subject: [vintageHO] Looking for a Boxcar
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > Hey everyone,
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > How is everyone doing. I am looking for a boxcar. I dont think there
                                                                                                                    > that old but i know there on the older side. The boxcar i am looking
                                                                                                                    > for is a Jailbox boxcar. it is painted up and lettered to mimic the
                                                                                                                    > Railbox cars. Iside of it there is a "dude" in blocks and the door
                                                                                                                    > looks like iron doors on a jail cell.
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > My one buddy has one and i have always thought this was a pretty neet
                                                                                                                    > car and a good one to throw into a train just to get some conversation
                                                                                                                    > going. I also just think its a fun car and fun to see how many people
                                                                                                                    > catch while its runing around the track.
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > Mainly in short i would like to know who made this car and maybe here
                                                                                                                    > i could get one.
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > Thanks for the help guys
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > Respectfully,
                                                                                                                    > James
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1687 From: rsmedude Date: 11/16/2006
                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Looking for a Boxcar
                                                                                                                    Wow lots of good info for me there... thank you very much for the
                                                                                                                    info. I am gonna have to try and keep my eyes pealed for it... I
                                                                                                                    already have one buddy looking for me. He is the guy that already has
                                                                                                                    ne and I gave him explicit "orders" to buy it for me and ill pay him
                                                                                                                    back LOL

                                                                                                                    I think it woudl be neet if Walthers would do something like that again!!

                                                                                                                    Respectfully,
                                                                                                                    James

                                                                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > That was done back in the late 70's, early 80's by Walthers as paret
                                                                                                                    of their "toingue in cheek" series. It's not currently available, the
                                                                                                                    only place you'd find one would be a swap meet or on eBay. The
                                                                                                                    Walthers part number was 933-6854.
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > I don't have time now, (I'm on my lunch hour) but tonight I'll do a
                                                                                                                    scan of the catalog page for you.
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > Don
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                                    > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                                    > Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                    > Co-moderator
                                                                                                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                    > From: rsmedude
                                                                                                                    > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                    > Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 7:27 AM
                                                                                                                    > Subject: [vintageHO] Looking for a Boxcar
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > Hey everyone,
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > How is everyone doing. I am looking for a boxcar. I dont think there
                                                                                                                    > that old but i know there on the older side. The boxcar i am looking
                                                                                                                    > for is a Jailbox boxcar. it is painted up and lettered to mimic the
                                                                                                                    > Railbox cars. Iside of it there is a "dude" in blocks and the door
                                                                                                                    > looks like iron doors on a jail cell.
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > My one buddy has one and i have always thought this was a pretty neet
                                                                                                                    > car and a good one to throw into a train just to get some conversation
                                                                                                                    > going. I also just think its a fun car and fun to see how many people
                                                                                                                    > catch while its runing around the track.
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > Mainly in short i would like to know who made this car and maybe here
                                                                                                                    > i could get one.
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > Thanks for the help guys
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    > Respectfully,
                                                                                                                    > James
                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1688 From: Yardbird Trains Date: 11/16/2006
                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Home Page Picture...Going into That Good Night
                                                                                                                    Sorry for the empty email...  I hit reply and accidentally hit send before writing.
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                    Dan
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                    Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 3:47 PM
                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Home Page Picture...Going into That Good Night

                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                    Dan Bush - Yardbird Classic Trains
                                                                                                                    Check our new additions and discussion group at:
                                                                                                                    www.yardbirdtrains. com
                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                    Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 2:56 PM
                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Home Page Picture...Going into That Good Night

                                                                                                                    Dear Jim,
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                    Operating in various shades of daylight (or night) may be possible with something called "City Lights 2.0", advertised by Doc's Caboose, Inc., in the Kansas Cityy area. Please check www.docscaboose. com to see and read of the item. It lists for $179.95, but Doc's is asking $149.95 for it on sale. It provides gradations of light over a layout. As for background, other technologies may be incorporated with a layout. I once read how John Allen employed black lighting as well.
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                    John Barlow (jdenver4150@ yahoo.com)

                                                                                                                    rsmedude <jwilliams@rsme. dyndns.org> wrote:
                                                                                                                    Hey Guys,

                                                                                                                    I wanted to know who ownes the layout that the picture on the main
                                                                                                                    page is from? reason i ask is cause i wanted to ask if i am seeing
                                                                                                                    that correctly that there is a "nights sky" background? I am
                                                                                                                    interested in some information about that cause i think its a cool and
                                                                                                                    diffrent concept to go with. If the person that made that layout and
                                                                                                                    or that backdrop could contact me i would greatly appriciate it.

                                                                                                                    Respectfully,
                                                                                                                    James



                                                                                                                    Sponsored Link

                                                                                                                    Mortgage rates near 39yr lows. $510,000 Mortgage for $1,698/mo - Calculate new house payment

                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1689 From: John Barlow Date: 11/16/2006
                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: trains
                                                                                                                    Dear Ray,
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                    Try www.hoseeker.net. It offers most probably what you seek.
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                    John W. Barlow

                                                                                                                    Raymond Lorts Sr <RaymondLorts@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                    Hi Guys:   Where can I  got plans  Mantua 4-6-2 ?
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                       Ray L
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                    I had a Stroke

                                                                                                                    Sponsored Link


                                                                                                                    $420,000 Mortgage for $1,399/month - Think You Pay Too Much For Your Mortgage? Find Out!


                                                                                                                    Sponsored Link

                                                                                                                    Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - $150,000 loan for $579 a month. Intro-*Terms

                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1690 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/16/2006
                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Looking for a Boxcar
                                                                                                                    Attachments :
                                                                                                                      Here's the scan.  This particular clip is from the 1982 Walthers catalog
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Don
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                      From: rsmedude
                                                                                                                      Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 4:41 PM
                                                                                                                      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Looking for a Boxcar

                                                                                                                      when you get a chance to upload that information please hit me with an
                                                                                                                      email or reply to this thread and let me know where you uploaded it
                                                                                                                      to... i would be interested in seeing it.

                                                                                                                      :) thanx

                                                                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@ ...> wrote:
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > That was done back in the late 70's, early 80's by Walthers as paret
                                                                                                                      of their "toingue in cheek" series. It's not currently available, the
                                                                                                                      only place you'd find one would be a swap meet or on eBay. The
                                                                                                                      Walthers part number was 933-6854.
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > I don't have time now, (I'm on my lunch hour) but tonight I'll do a
                                                                                                                      scan of the catalog page for you.
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > Don
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > don.dellmann@ ...
                                                                                                                      > http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                                                                                                      > Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                      > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                                                                                                      > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                      > Co-moderator
                                                                                                                      > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                      > From: rsmedude
                                                                                                                      > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                                                                      > Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 7:27 AM
                                                                                                                      > Subject: [vintageHO] Looking for a Boxcar
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > Hey everyone,
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > How is everyone doing. I am looking for a boxcar. I dont think there
                                                                                                                      > that old but i know there on the older side. The boxcar i am looking
                                                                                                                      > for is a Jailbox boxcar. it is painted up and lettered to mimic the
                                                                                                                      > Railbox cars. Iside of it there is a "dude" in blocks and the door
                                                                                                                      > looks like iron doors on a jail cell.
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > My one buddy has one and i have always thought this was a pretty neet
                                                                                                                      > car and a good one to throw into a train just to get some conversation
                                                                                                                      > going. I also just think its a fun car and fun to see how many people
                                                                                                                      > catch while its runing around the track.
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > Mainly in short i would like to know who made this car and maybe here
                                                                                                                      > i could get one.
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > Thanks for the help guys
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > Respectfully,
                                                                                                                      > James
                                                                                                                      >

                                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1691 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/16/2006
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: trains
                                                                                                                      >----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                      >From: Raymond Lorts Sr
                                                                                                                      >To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                      >Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 4:33 PM
                                                                                                                      >Subject: [vintageHO] trains


                                                                                                                      >Hi Guys: Where can I got plans Mantua 4-6-2 ?

                                                                                                                      > Ray L


                                                                                                                      >I had a Stroke


                                                                                                                      We missed you. Glad your back, and hope you're recovering well.

                                                                                                                      Don

                                                                                                                      don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                                      http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                                      Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                      Co-moderator
                                                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1692 From: Mike Bauers Date: 11/16/2006
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Box cab info help?
                                                                                                                      This reminds me that I saved both a C&NW and a GM&O doodlebug casting set to make a little Doodlebug fleet form cast-off heavyweight passenger car bodies.......

                                                                                                                      I'd better put that new batch of Alumilite plastic and RTV to good use while it's fresh.......

                                                                                                                      Best to ya'
                                                                                                                      Mike Bauers
                                                                                                                      Milwaukee Wi, USA


                                                                                                                      On Nov 16, 2006, at 6:56 AM, Yardbird Trains wrote:

                                                                                                                      Glenn,
                                                                                                                      About all I have are some re-cast variations of the Kemtron type Lil' Joe CFwd piece.  We've modified them for many projects, but not sure on yours. 
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Dan Bush
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                      From: Glenn
                                                                                                                      Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 6:49 PM
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Box cab info help?


                                                                                                                      A wild guess would be to see if you can find an old Walthers (or Selley copy) EMC gas-electric front end casting. It sounds Walthers. 
                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                      From: tomvanhoy
                                                                                                                      Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 6:45 PM
                                                                                                                      Subject: [vintageHO] Box cab info help?

                                                                                                                      Hi,
                                                                                                                      I picked up a box cab in need of some TLC this past weekend.
                                                                                                                      It has a wooden roof with attached details, a tin plate body and a
                                                                                                                      DC-60 motor on a power truck. It is missing some sort of front end.
                                                                                                                      I have looked thru some 50's RMC's, but no luck. Any suggestions on
                                                                                                                      where to find some info on it. 

                                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1693 From: Glenn Date: 11/16/2006
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Box cab info help?
                                                                                                                      checking, it was Tom VanHoy who was looking--
                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                      Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 4:56 AM
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Box cab info help?

                                                                                                                      Glenn,
                                                                                                                      About all I have are some re-cast variations of the Kemtron type Lil' Joe CFwd piece.  We've modified them for many projects, but not sure on yours. 

                                                                                                                      Dan Bush
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                      From: Glenn
                                                                                                                      Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 6:49 PM
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Box cab info help?

                                                                                                                      A wild guess would be to see if you can find an old Walthers (or Selley copy) EMC gas-electric front end casting. It sounds Walthers. 
                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                      From: tomvanhoy
                                                                                                                      Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 6:45 PM
                                                                                                                      Subject: [vintageHO] Box cab info help?

                                                                                                                      Hi,
                                                                                                                      I picked up a box cab in need of some TLC this past weekend.
                                                                                                                      It has a wooden roof with attached details, a tin plate body and a
                                                                                                                      DC-60 motor on a power truck. It is missing some sort of front end.
                                                                                                                      I have looked thru some 50's RMC's, but no luck. Any suggestions on
                                                                                                                      where to find some info on it.
                                                                                                                      Thanks,
                                                                                                                      Tom

                                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1694 From: Glenn Date: 11/16/2006
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Box cab info help?
                                                                                                                      That's not my project, although I have one in a box somewhere--O Scale.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      The Cab-forward cab you mention was a Kemtron for the Varney Dockside-- The project I responded to sounded like a typical Walthers passenger car--I'm not sure who fot the HO Walthers car line--Keil LIne has the O Scale parts, and I think tha All Nation got the kits. gj
                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                      Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 4:56 AM
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Box cab info help?

                                                                                                                      Glenn,
                                                                                                                      About all I have are some re-cast variations of the Kemtron type Lil' Joe CFwd piece.  We've modified them for many projects, but not sure on yours. 

                                                                                                                      Dan Bush
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                      From: Glenn
                                                                                                                      Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 6:49 PM
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Box cab info help?

                                                                                                                      A wild guess would be to see if you can find an old Walthers (or Selley copy) EMC gas-electric front end casting. It sounds Walthers. 
                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                      From: tomvanhoy
                                                                                                                      Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 6:45 PM
                                                                                                                      Subject: [vintageHO] Box cab info help?

                                                                                                                      Hi,
                                                                                                                      I picked up a box cab in need of some TLC this past weekend.
                                                                                                                      It has a wooden roof with attached details, a tin plate body and a
                                                                                                                      DC-60 motor on a power truck. It is missing some sort of front end.
                                                                                                                      I have looked thru some 50's RMC's, but no luck. Any suggestions on
                                                                                                                      where to find some info on it.
                                                                                                                      Thanks,
                                                                                                                      Tom

                                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1695 From: Glenn Date: 11/16/2006
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Looking for a Boxcar
                                                                                                                      That was a Walthers car.
                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                      From: rsmedude
                                                                                                                      Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 5:27 AM
                                                                                                                      Subject: [vintageHO] Looking for a Boxcar

                                                                                                                      Hey everyone,

                                                                                                                      How is everyone doing. I am looking for a boxcar. I dont think there
                                                                                                                      that old but i know there on the older side. The boxcar i am looking
                                                                                                                      for is a Jailbox boxcar. it is painted up and lettered to mimic the
                                                                                                                      Railbox cars. Iside of it there is a "dude" in blocks and the door
                                                                                                                      looks like iron doors on a jail cell.

                                                                                                                      My one buddy has one and i have always thought this was a pretty neet
                                                                                                                      car and a good one to throw into a train just to get some conversation
                                                                                                                      going. I also just think its a fun car and fun to see how many people
                                                                                                                      catch while its runing around the track.

                                                                                                                      Mainly in short i would like to know who made this car and maybe here
                                                                                                                      i could get one.

                                                                                                                      Thanks for the help guys

                                                                                                                      Respectfully,
                                                                                                                      James

                                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1696 From: Larry Stevenson Date: 11/16/2006
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: trains
                                                                                                                      Welcome Back Ray
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Glad to see you haven't given up your model railroading interests or this forum.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Maybe the instructions for the Mantua 4-6-2 are at the links below:
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Larry
                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                      Raymond Lorts Sr <RaymondLorts@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                      Hi Guys:   Where can I  got plans  Mantua 4-6-2 ?
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                         Ray L
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      I had a Stroke

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                                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1697 From: Glenn Date: 11/16/2006
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Home Page Picture...Going into That Good Night
                                                                                                                      This brings to mind the N-Trak module that used Van Gogh's "Starry Night" as a backdrop--with lamps in the stars.
                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                      From: rsmedude
                                                                                                                      Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 2:27 PM
                                                                                                                      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Home Page Picture...Going into That Good Night

                                                                                                                      Thanks for the Info... I am in the process of antign to build a
                                                                                                                      Modular layout sometime. I saw another night scene and this night
                                                                                                                      scene I started to think wow thats pretty neat and diffrent. I just
                                                                                                                      recently purchased a camera to put into a car. I primarily got it for
                                                                                                                      up at my model Railroad club but would like to mess with it for myself
                                                                                                                      too. What I was thinking is if I would go with a night scene I would
                                                                                                                      actually make a "front" and "back" splash in night scene so that when
                                                                                                                      I take a video it would look as authentic as possible.

                                                                                                                      respectfully,
                                                                                                                      james

                                                                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@ ...> wrote:
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > Dear Jim,
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > Operating in various shades of daylight (or night) may be possible
                                                                                                                      with something called "City Lights 2.0", advertised by Doc's Caboose,
                                                                                                                      Inc., in the Kansas Cityy area. Please check www.docscaboose. com to
                                                                                                                      see and read of the item. It lists for $179.95, but Doc's is asking
                                                                                                                      $149.95 for it on sale. It provides gradations of light over a layout.
                                                                                                                      As for background, other technologies may be incorporated with a
                                                                                                                      layout. I once read how John Allen employed black lighting as well.
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > John Barlow (jdenver4150@ ...)
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > rsmedude <jwilliams@. ..> wrote:
                                                                                                                      > Hey Guys,
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > I wanted to know who ownes the layout that the picture on the main
                                                                                                                      > page is from? reason i ask is cause i wanted to ask if i am seeing
                                                                                                                      > that correctly that there is a "nights sky" background? I am
                                                                                                                      > interested in some information about that cause i think its a cool and
                                                                                                                      > diffrent concept to go with. If the person that made that layout and
                                                                                                                      > or that backdrop could contact me i would greatly appriciate it.
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > Respectfully,
                                                                                                                      > James
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > ------------ --------- --------- ---
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                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > Mortgage rates near 39yr lows. $510,000 Mortgage for $1,698/mo -
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                                                                                                                      >

                                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1698 From: John Barlow Date: 11/16/2006
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Home Page Picture...Going into That Good Night
                                                                                                                      Dear Glenn,
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Individual lights to create stars? Could be done, but watch for "novas" and "supernovas" when a bulb goes out-"dark star"...and the layout gets sucked into the "event horizon."
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Joking aside, A sensible star pattern might be in ordfer, depending upon the ground lighting of towns and suburbs vis-a-vis those remote locations.  Add a few clouds that can be there day and night in the background...perhaps made of that Christmas fluff cotton or whatever they call it to add the third dimensional effect. Avoid a moon...or see if you can rig up ways it can appear in phases and take on a slightly brownish tint for smoke in the air-pollution.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      I think the ability to diversify between night and day has a certain appeal. I saw the St. Anne (OO Scale) almost 38 years ago, and Ed Costello's decades-long masterpiece (he made his own rail way back when), and the night bscene of then was magnificent, sans a walled background. Just remember, that background is farther away and needs to be carefully done before the layout tablework goes up. Plan carefully.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      John
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                       


                                                                                                                      Glenn <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                      This brings to mind the N-Trak module that used Van Gogh's "Starry Night" as a backdrop--with lamps in the stars.
                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                      From: rsmedude
                                                                                                                      Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 2:27 PM
                                                                                                                      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Home Page Picture...Going into That Good Night

                                                                                                                      Thanks for the Info... I am in the process of antign to build a
                                                                                                                      Modular layout sometime. I saw another night scene and this night
                                                                                                                      scene I started to think wow thats pretty neat and diffrent. I just
                                                                                                                      recently purchased a camera to put into a car. I primarily got it for
                                                                                                                      up at my model Railroad club but would like to mess with it for myself
                                                                                                                      too. What I was thinking is if I would go with a night scene I would
                                                                                                                      actually make a "front" and "back" splash in night scene so that when
                                                                                                                      I take a video it would look as authentic as possible.

                                                                                                                      respectfully,
                                                                                                                      james

                                                                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@ ...> wrote:
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > Dear Jim,
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > Operating in various shades of daylight (or night) may be possible
                                                                                                                      with something called "City Lights 2.0", advertised by Doc's Caboose,
                                                                                                                      Inc., in the Kansas Cityy area. Please check www.docscaboose. com to
                                                                                                                      see and read of the item. It lists for $179.95, but Doc's is asking
                                                                                                                      $149.95 for it on sale. It provides gradations of light over a layout.
                                                                                                                      As for background, other technologies may be incorporated with a
                                                                                                                      layout. I once read how John Allen employed black lighting as well.
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > John Barlow (jdenver4150@ ...)
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > rsmedude <jwilliams@. ..> wrote:
                                                                                                                      > Hey Guys,
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > I wanted to know who ownes the layout that the picture on the main
                                                                                                                      > page is from? reason i ask is cause i wanted to ask if i am seeing
                                                                                                                      > that correctly that there is a "nights sky" background? I am
                                                                                                                      > interested in some information about that cause i think its a cool and
                                                                                                                      > diffrent concept to go with. If the person that made that layout and
                                                                                                                      > or that backdrop could contact me i would greatly appriciate it.
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > Respectfully,
                                                                                                                      > James
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                                                                                                                      > Sponsored Link
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > Mortgage rates near 39yr lows. $510,000 Mortgage for $1,698/mo -
                                                                                                                      Calculate new house payment
                                                                                                                      >



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                                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1699 From: Dave Slater Date: 11/17/2006
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Looking for a Boxcar
                                                                                                                      One could almost do that from a Rail Box if they could find the decals or could make them..  LOL
                                                                                                                      Dave S.

                                                                                                                      Don Dellmann wrote:
                                                                                                                      Here's the scan.  This particular clip is from the 1982 Walthers catalog
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Don

                                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1700 From: Glenn Date: 11/17/2006
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Home Page Picture...Going into That Good Night
                                                                                                                      Remember I said the backdrop was the Van Gogh painting--not any actual star pattern.
                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                      Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 6:49 PM
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Home Page Picture...Going into That Good Night

                                                                                                                      Dear Glenn,
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Individual lights to create stars? Could be done, but watch for "novas" and "supernovas" when a bulb goes out-"dark star"...and the layout gets sucked into the "event horizon."
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Joking aside, A sensible star pattern might be in ordfer, depending upon the ground lighting of towns and suburbs vis-a-vis those remote locations.  Add a few clouds that can be there day and night in the background.. .perhaps made of that Christmas fluff cotton or whatever they call it to add the third dimensional effect. Avoid a moon...or see if you can rig up ways it can appear in phases and take on a slightly brownish tint for smoke in the air-pollution.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      I think the ability to diversify between night and day has a certain appeal. I saw the St. Anne (OO Scale) almost 38 years ago, and Ed Costello's decades-long masterpiece (he made his own rail way back when), and the night bscene of then was magnificent, sans a walled background. Just remember, that background is farther away and needs to be carefully done before the layout tablework goes up. Plan carefully.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      John
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                       


                                                                                                                      Glenn <glenn476@tco. net> wrote:
                                                                                                                      This brings to mind the N-Trak module that used Van Gogh's "Starry Night" as a backdrop--with lamps in the stars.
                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                      From: rsmedude
                                                                                                                      Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 2:27 PM
                                                                                                                      Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Home Page Picture...Going into That Good Night

                                                                                                                      Thanks for the Info... I am in the process of antign to build a
                                                                                                                      Modular layout sometime. I saw another night scene and this night
                                                                                                                      scene I started to think wow thats pretty neat and diffrent. I just
                                                                                                                      recently purchased a camera to put into a car. I primarily got it for
                                                                                                                      up at my model Railroad club but would like to mess with it for myself
                                                                                                                      too. What I was thinking is if I would go with a night scene I would
                                                                                                                      actually make a "front" and "back" splash in night scene so that when
                                                                                                                      I take a video it would look as authentic as possible.

                                                                                                                      respectfully,
                                                                                                                      james

                                                                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@ ...> wrote:
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > Dear Jim,
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > Operating in various shades of daylight (or night) may be possible
                                                                                                                      with something called "City Lights 2.0", advertised by Doc's Caboose,
                                                                                                                      Inc., in the Kansas Cityy area. Please check www.docscaboose. com to
                                                                                                                      see and read of the item. It lists for $179.95, but Doc's is asking
                                                                                                                      $149.95 for it on sale. It provides gradations of light over a layout.
                                                                                                                      As for background, other technologies may be incorporated with a
                                                                                                                      layout. I once read how John Allen employed black lighting as well.
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > John Barlow (jdenver4150@ ...)
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > rsmedude <jwilliams@. ..> wrote:
                                                                                                                      > Hey Guys,
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > I wanted to know who ownes the layout that the picture on the main
                                                                                                                      > page is from? reason i ask is cause i wanted to ask if i am seeing
                                                                                                                      > that correctly that there is a "nights sky" background? I am
                                                                                                                      > interested in some information about that cause i think its a cool and
                                                                                                                      > diffrent concept to go with. If the person that made that layout and
                                                                                                                      > or that backdrop could contact me i would greatly appriciate it.
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > Respectfully,
                                                                                                                      > James
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                                                                                                                      > Sponsored Link
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > Mortgage rates near 39yr lows. $510,000 Mortgage for $1,698/mo -
                                                                                                                      Calculate new house payment
                                                                                                                      >



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                                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1701 From: Imp Ster Date: 11/17/2006
                                                                                                                      Subject: re, the Home Page pic
                                                                                                                      greets all...
                                                                                                                      didnt know the Home pic had been changed... i have got to visit the
                                                                                                                      Group Home more often!

                                                                                                                      thats really a rather dark image, hard to make out detail.
                                                                                                                      the engine is a Mantua Prairie with upgraded lost-wax spoked pilot
                                                                                                                      and trailing truck wheelsets.
                                                                                                                      it was posed on my train-office layout, then the background was
                                                                                                                      scrubbed out (being mostly non-HO crap) and the background star shot
                                                                                                                      was added courtesy of the Hubble telescope, its a deep-space scan.
                                                                                                                      i had some other versions of the same composition with better
                                                                                                                      lighting-detail that i will try to dig up and post to Files soon.

                                                                                                                      btw, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tyco_trains/ has a home-pic of my
                                                                                                                      Old #1 working the coffee mines.
                                                                                                                      soon i will post pix of the new layout expansion which has kept me up
                                                                                                                      for the last 3 days-nights.
                                                                                                                      the layout now reaches around almost the entire room (pretty good for
                                                                                                                      a hoby-shop reject!) - and the "coffee mine" area is now almost ready
                                                                                                                      to have live rail service to the layout proper.
                                                                                                                      this could mean actual Tyco operating hopper cars feeding the coffee-
                                                                                                                      maker.
                                                                                                                      webcam action will follow soon!
                                                                                                                      (reminiscent of the original IBM web camera that for years broadcast
                                                                                                                      a scene of their office coffee pot.... alas, it was taken out of
                                                                                                                      service last year)

                                                                                                                      bbl

                                                                                                                      ...
                                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1702 From: Imp Ster Date: 11/17/2006
                                                                                                                      Subject: new image in Vintage-HO "Files"
                                                                                                                      greets all - speaking of odd pix, i came up with an odd pictorial
                                                                                                                      composition during the dregs of the coffee-mine loop expansion work
                                                                                                                      sessions.
                                                                                                                      it is a webcam grab that i sent thru Paperport and inverted.
                                                                                                                      the title is "Ghostly Passage" and features a Mantua Pacific heading
                                                                                                                      away into the "night" while the foregound Hudson engine (a basket-case
                                                                                                                      brass kit ca. 1950, producer unknown, many hand-tooled parts, steel
                                                                                                                      wheels and valve gear) - seems to be emerging out of the steam and mist.
                                                                                                                      it is my current wallpaper of choice.

                                                                                                                      see all this and more at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files !

                                                                                                                      cheers

                                                                                                                      ...
                                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1703 From: Mike Bauers Date: 11/18/2006
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Looking for a Boxcar
                                                                                                                      Except for the red/blue railbox logo......... It's just ordinary black lettering that can be printed on decal paper with any laser/inkjet/Alps/photo-ink printer. The only tricky printer for this is the ordinary inkjet.

                                                                                                                      Most any modeler could paste it up in the computer and then print it. Between using a Railbox car, or a railbox decal set for the logo, the rest is a bit of time spent with most any computer word processor.......... and a few test prints on regular paper.

                                                                                                                      On a good day, the computer work would take about 30 minutes with touch-ups and corrections.

                                                                                                                      It's a fun idea to play around with. 

                                                                                                                      Best to ya'
                                                                                                                      Mike Bauers
                                                                                                                      Milwaukee Wi, USA


                                                                                                                      On Nov 17, 2006, at 6:45 AM, Dave Slater wrote:

                                                                                                                      One could almost do that from a Rail Box if they could find the decals or could make them..  LOL
                                                                                                                      Dave S.

                                                                                                                      Don Dellmann wrote:
                                                                                                                      Here's the scan.  This particular clip is from the 1982 Walthers catalog
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Don
                                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1704 From: Neal Rammacher Date: 11/18/2006
                                                                                                                      Subject: Lionel Alco
                                                                                                                      I have a Texas Special AB from 1957.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      If I oiled her up,how well would it run?
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Neal,Brookfield, Ill.
                                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1705 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/18/2006
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Lionel Alco
                                                                                                                      Why don't you oil her up and try?
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      The shell as I understand it is actually the old Hobbyline.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Don
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                      Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 1:44 PM
                                                                                                                      Subject: [vintageHO] Lionel Alco

                                                                                                                      I have a Texas Special AB from 1957.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      If I oiled her up,how well would it run?
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Neal,Brookfield, Ill.

                                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1706 From: John Barlow Date: 11/18/2006
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Lionel Alco
                                                                                                                      Be careful of any corrsion in shaft. If the motor turns over and locks, check gearing before lubing. Any inhibitors may be present and lubing won't help until inhibitors are reduced.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      John

                                                                                                                      Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                      Why don't you oil her up and try?
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      The shell as I understand it is actually the old Hobbyline.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Don
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                      Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 1:44 PM
                                                                                                                      Subject: [vintageHO] Lionel Alco

                                                                                                                      I have a Texas Special AB from 1957.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      If I oiled her up,how well would it run?
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Neal,Brookfield, Ill.


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                                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1707 From: John Barlow Date: 11/18/2006
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Lionel Alco...Several Additional Thoughts.
                                                                                                                      Given age and possible inactivity of the motor, it may act like a new motor in one sense-it needs to be broken in. Running at a high speed will help but gradually slow the speed as its sensitivity increases. It will take maybe eight or more hours. Check wheels for corrosion as well...remove any gunk.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Is the unit a Lionel Alco with EMD truck frames?
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Neal Rammacher <nealrammacher@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                      I have a Texas Special AB from 1957.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      If I oiled her up,how well would it run?
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Neal,Brookfield, Ill.


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                                                                                                                      Mortgage rates near 39yr lows. $510,000 Mortgage for $1,698/mo - Calculate new house payment

                                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1708 From: Neal Rammacher Date: 11/18/2006
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Lionel Alco...Several Additional Thoughts.
                                                                                                                      I believe  they are  Alco.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Apparently I would have to replace the bands.The light works and the motor runs
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      I need a good parts guy-it would appear.
                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                      Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 5:54 PM
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Lionel Alco...Several Additional Thoughts.

                                                                                                                      Given age and possible inactivity of the motor, it may act like a new motor in one sense-it needs to be broken in. Running at a high speed will help but gradually slow the speed as its sensitivity increases. It will take maybe eight or more hours. Check wheels for corrosion as well...remove any gunk.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Is the unit a Lionel Alco with EMD truck frames?
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Neal Rammacher <nealrammacher@ sbcglobal. net> wrote:
                                                                                                                      I have a Texas Special AB from 1957.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      If I oiled her up,how well would it run?
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Neal,Brookfield, Ill.


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                                                                                                                      Mortgage rates near 39yr lows. $510,000 Mortgage for $1,698/mo - Calculate new house payment

                                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1709 From: Mike Bauers Date: 11/18/2006
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Lionel Alco
                                                                                                                      Not as well as when you follow up with tuner cleaner on the electrical path........

                                                                                                                      I've done it with a not-run-for 20 years Athearn 0-4-2t Lil' Monster, and swear by the treatment ever since. Wouldn't run before, but ran like it thought it was a new Kato after,

                                                                                                                      Best to ya'
                                                                                                                      Mike Bauers
                                                                                                                      Milwaukee Wi, USA


                                                                                                                      On Nov 18, 2006, at 1:44 PM, Neal Rammacher wrote:

                                                                                                                      I have a Texas Special AB from 1957.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      If I oiled her up,how well would it run?
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Neal,Brookfield, Ill.
                                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1710 From: John Barlow Date: 11/18/2006
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Lionel Alco...Several Additional Thoughts.
                                                                                                                      Old advice among websiters here-try Yard Bird Trains at www.yardbirdtrains.com.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      John

                                                                                                                      Neal Rammacher <nealrammacher@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                      I believe  they are  Alco.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Apparently I would have to replace the bands.The light works and the motor runs
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      I need a good parts guy-it would appear.
                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                      Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 5:54 PM
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Lionel Alco...Several Additional Thoughts.

                                                                                                                      Given age and possible inactivity of the motor, it may act like a new motor in one sense-it needs to be broken in. Running at a high speed will help but gradually slow the speed as its sensitivity increases. It will take maybe eight or more hours. Check wheels for corrosion as well...remove any gunk.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Is the unit a Lionel Alco with EMD truck frames?
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Neal Rammacher <nealrammacher@ sbcglobal. net> wrote:
                                                                                                                      I have a Texas Special AB from 1957.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      If I oiled her up,how well would it run?
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Neal,Brookfield, Ill.


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                                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1711 From: John Barlow Date: 11/18/2006
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Lionel Alco...and Stuff That Goes from the "Git-Go."
                                                                                                                      I had a Model Power (made by them back then) 4-4-0 (Ma & Pa) with tender drive come out of the box after 20 years and run beautifully. There's just no telling.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      John

                                                                                                                      Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                      Not as well as when you follow up with tuner cleaner on the electrical path........

                                                                                                                      I've done it with a not-run-for 20 years Athearn 0-4-2t Lil' Monster, and swear by the treatment ever since. Wouldn't run before, but ran like it thought it was a new Kato after,

                                                                                                                      Best to ya'
                                                                                                                      Mike Bauers
                                                                                                                      Milwaukee Wi, USA


                                                                                                                      On Nov 18, 2006, at 1:44 PM, Neal Rammacher wrote:

                                                                                                                      I have a Texas Special AB from 1957.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      If I oiled her up,how well would it run?
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Neal,Brookfield, Ill.


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                                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1712 From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com Date: 11/19/2006
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Lionel Alco...and Stuff That Goes from the "Git-Go."
                                                                                                                      Just to chime in... I'm always finding vintage stuuf, both Steam and Diesel at shows... and one of the biggest thrills for me is to watch a piece that is either over, or almost fifty years old, make it around the oval of track by my workbench set up for test purposes. Some of them require a simple cleaning of the wheels and a little lubrication, while others require the manufacture of a long gone part... either way there is nothing more satisfying than the thought that someone had once either built or bought a specific piece that is once again rolling down a track. The surprising thing is that it's not always the most expensive vintage pieces that run the best... I am once in a while surprised by the abilities of the less expensive vintage pieces that most of us seem to turn up our noses at... especially the items from the dark period of model railroading known as The Seventies.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                      From: jdenver4150@...
                                                                                                                      To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                      Sent: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 5:51 PM
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Lionel Alco...and Stuff That Goes from the "Git-Go."

                                                                                                                      I had a Model Power (made by them back then) 4-4-0 (Ma & Pa) with tender drive come out of the box after 20 years and run beautifully. There's just no telling.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      John

                                                                                                                      Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@wi. rr.com> wrote:
                                                                                                                      Not as well as when you follow up with tuner cleaner on the electrical path........

                                                                                                                      I've done it with a not-run-for 20 years Athearn 0-4-2t Lil' Monster, and swear by the treatment ever since. Wouldn't run before, but ran like it thought it was a new Kato after,

                                                                                                                      Best to ya'
                                                                                                                      Mike Bauers
                                                                                                                      Milwaukee Wi, USA


                                                                                                                      On Nov 18, 2006, at 1:44 PM, Neal Rammacher wrote:

                                                                                                                      I have a Texas Special AB from 1957.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      If I oiled her up,how well would it run?
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Neal,Brookfield, Ill.


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                                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1713 From: tomvanhoy Date: 11/19/2006
                                                                                                                      Subject: box cab photos
                                                                                                                      Hi,
                                                                                                                      I have loaded 2 pics of the mystery box cab. Comments welcome!
                                                                                                                      Thanks,
                                                                                                                      Tom
                                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1714 From: jerrygart5 Date: 11/19/2006
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: box cab photos
                                                                                                                      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "tomvanhoy" <tomvanhoy@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > Hi,
                                                                                                                      > I have loaded 2 pics of the mystery box cab. Comments welcome!
                                                                                                                      > Thanks,
                                                                                                                      > Tom
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      Tom- I have never seen this one before. I would guess this is
                                                                                                                      a "scratchbuild"; the sides are typical Walthers tinplate of
                                                                                                                      the '50's-'60's (maybe pieced out of an RPO car???), as is the
                                                                                                                      trailing truck. What is the power truck like? Is the drive maybe a
                                                                                                                      circular coiled spring running between two pulleys (one on an axle,
                                                                                                                      the other on the motor shaft)? If so, it is a Doodlebug power
                                                                                                                      truck. The roof looks like a typical passenger car "turtleback"
                                                                                                                      (streamline) roof section, courtesy of Northeastern Scale Lumber.

                                                                                                                      As to an end, you may be able to find an old Walthers Doodlebug end
                                                                                                                      to fit. Or an alternate may be to cut an end out of an old MDC
                                                                                                                      boxcab or a Grandt Line box cab switcher and fit it in. Also, while
                                                                                                                      not keeping with "period" construction, a convincing end could be
                                                                                                                      fabbed from sytrene.

                                                                                                                      Cute little booger (can I say "cute"????) - I'm sure there are a
                                                                                                                      few of us that would like to see how the restoration turns out. The
                                                                                                                      good part is that you can use your "artistic license" here!
                                                                                                                      Regards, JerryG.
                                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1715 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/19/2006
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: box cab photos
                                                                                                                      That's the front half of a Walthers "Shuttle jack"  The "missing half" was a baggage car, articulated to the front.  The prototype was a Santa Fe unit (M-190?).
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      It was discontinued from the Walthers line some time in the early 1960's.  Somewhere I have a 1959 or 1960 catalog with a pucture, but I can't find it right now.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Don
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                      From: tomvanhoy
                                                                                                                      Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 12:08 PM
                                                                                                                      Subject: [vintageHO] box cab photos

                                                                                                                      Hi,
                                                                                                                      I have loaded 2 pics of the mystery box cab. Comments welcome!
                                                                                                                      Thanks,
                                                                                                                      Tom

                                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1716 From: Gerry D Date: 11/19/2006
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: box cab photos
                                                                                                                      If you're not in a hurry, I think I have an "end" of a
                                                                                                                      MDC boxcap that I cut up years ago. (I never throw
                                                                                                                      anything away, just that it's hard to locate!)

                                                                                                                      Cordially,
                                                                                                                      Gerry

                                                                                                                      --- jerrygart5 <jerryg@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                      > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "tomvanhoy"
                                                                                                                      > <tomvanhoy@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                      > > Hi,
                                                                                                                      > > I have loaded 2 pics of the mystery box cab.
                                                                                                                      > Comments welcome!
                                                                                                                      > > Thanks,
                                                                                                                      > > Tom
                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                      > Tom- I have never seen this one before. I would
                                                                                                                      > guess this is
                                                                                                                      > a "scratchbuild"; the sides are typical Walthers
                                                                                                                      > tinplate of
                                                                                                                      > the '50's-'60's (maybe pieced out of an RPO car???),
                                                                                                                      > as is the
                                                                                                                      > trailing truck. What is the power truck like? Is
                                                                                                                      > the drive maybe a
                                                                                                                      > circular coiled spring running between two pulleys
                                                                                                                      > (one on an axle,
                                                                                                                      > the other on the motor shaft)? If so, it is a
                                                                                                                      > Doodlebug power
                                                                                                                      > truck. The roof looks like a typical passenger car
                                                                                                                      > "turtleback"
                                                                                                                      > (streamline) roof section, courtesy of Northeastern
                                                                                                                      > Scale Lumber.
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > As to an end, you may be able to find an old
                                                                                                                      > Walthers Doodlebug end
                                                                                                                      > to fit. Or an alternate may be to cut an end out of
                                                                                                                      > an old MDC
                                                                                                                      > boxcab or a Grandt Line box cab switcher and fit it
                                                                                                                      > in. Also, while
                                                                                                                      > not keeping with "period" construction, a convincing
                                                                                                                      > end could be
                                                                                                                      > fabbed from sytrene.
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > Cute little booger (can I say "cute"????) - I'm
                                                                                                                      > sure there are a
                                                                                                                      > few of us that would like to see how the restoration
                                                                                                                      > turns out. The
                                                                                                                      > good part is that you can use your "artistic
                                                                                                                      > license" here!
                                                                                                                      > Regards, JerryG.
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      >




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                                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1717 From: tomvanhoy Date: 11/20/2006
                                                                                                                      Subject: box cab
                                                                                                                      The motor is a DC-60 geared to a power truck. I have an old Varney F3
                                                                                                                      diesel with the same power truck. I tested it and it does run.
                                                                                                                      Tom
                                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1718 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/20/2006
                                                                                                                      Subject: latest addition
                                                                                                                      Attachments :
                                                                                                                        Latest addition to the Milwaukee Nornthen roster, the last Varney car that
                                                                                                                        I've always really wanted since I was a kid in 1960 but never had. (the
                                                                                                                        others were the VGN single sheathed box car and the Ostuco gondola). Now I
                                                                                                                        can die happy. <G>

                                                                                                                        Don
                                                                                                                        don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                                        http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                                        Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                        Co-moderator
                                                                                                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1719 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 11/21/2006
                                                                                                                        Subject: Fwd: Happy Thanksgiving
                                                                                                                        Attachments :


                                                                                                                          Note: forwarded message attached.


                                                                                                                          Sponsored Link

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                                                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1720 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 11/21/2006
                                                                                                                          Subject: Fwd: Happy Thanksgiving
                                                                                                                          Attachments :


                                                                                                                            Note: forwarded message attached.


                                                                                                                            Sponsored Link

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                                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1721 From: Richard Moessner Date: 11/22/2006
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: box cab photos
                                                                                                                            I just posted in Photos a scan of a page in the Walthers 1963 catalog
                                                                                                                            showing the Shuttle Jack. Look in album "Shuttle Jack."

                                                                                                                            I hope the scan comes through ok. This is my first try at posting a
                                                                                                                            photo or scan.

                                                                                                                            Dick Moessner



                                                                                                                            --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
                                                                                                                            wrote:
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > That's the front half of a Walthers "Shuttle jack" The "missing
                                                                                                                            half" was a baggage car, articulated to the front. The prototype was
                                                                                                                            a Santa Fe unit (M-190?).
                                                                                                                            > http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,651498
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > It was discontinued from the Walthers line some time in the early
                                                                                                                            1960's. Somewhere I have a 1959 or 1960 catalog with a pucture, but
                                                                                                                            I can't find it right now.
                                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1722 From: tomvanhoy Date: 11/22/2006
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Box cab photo
                                                                                                                            Thanks Dick, the pic came thru fine. I made a copy of it until I can
                                                                                                                            find one of my own. It is detailed enough to figure out what I am
                                                                                                                            missing.
                                                                                                                            Thanks,
                                                                                                                            Tom
                                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1723 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/25/2006
                                                                                                                            Subject: I love eBay
                                                                                                                            Anybody need a couple Athearn cabeese? I bought it for the HObbyline FM.
                                                                                                                            (and the rather unusual B&M box car. I've seen that scheme before, but it's
                                                                                                                            nowhere near as common as the all blue)

                                                                                                                            http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=012&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&viewitem=&item=220050576731

                                                                                                                            Also, are the purists on the list going to throw me out if I paint the FM
                                                                                                                            Milwaukee Northern?

                                                                                                                            Don
                                                                                                                            don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                                            http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                                            Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                            Co-moderator
                                                                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1724 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 11/25/2006
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: I love eBay
                                                                                                                            I love Ebay, too! Need advice, though:
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            I have an FM shell similar to that one, but no mechanism. Apparently never used; I had planned ot try putting an Athearn drive under it, but it's 'way too much carving and no guarantee of eventual fit.
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            Anybody need a spare, and if so(or not...), should his be put up on eBay(and what about a starting bid, etc) ?
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            Thanks in advance
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut)


                                                                                                                            Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            Anybody need a couple Athearn cabeese? I bought it for the HObbyline FM.
                                                                                                                            (and the rather unusual B&M box car. I've seen that scheme before, but it's
                                                                                                                            nowhere near as common as the all blue)

                                                                                                                            http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=012&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&viewitem=&item=220050576731

                                                                                                                            Also, are the purists on the list going to throw me out if I paint the FM
                                                                                                                            Milwaukee Northern?

                                                                                                                            Don


                                                                                                                            Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

                                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1725 From: Roger Aultman Date: 11/25/2006
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: I love eBay
                                                                                                                            I think it would look great in Milwaukee Northern paint. The seller was
                                                                                                                            right about the fact he knows nothing about trains. Roger Aultman




                                                                                                                            Don Dellmann wrote:
                                                                                                                            > Anybody need a couple Athearn cabeese? I bought it for the HObbyline FM.
                                                                                                                            > (and the rather unusual B&M box car. I've seen that scheme before, but it's
                                                                                                                            > nowhere near as common as the all blue)
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=012&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&viewitem=&item=220050576731
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Also, are the purists on the list going to throw me out if I paint the FM
                                                                                                                            > Milwaukee Northern?
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Don
                                                                                                                            > don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                                            > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                                            > Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                            > Co-moderator
                                                                                                                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >


                                                                                                                            --
                                                                                                                            http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

                                                                                                                            Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1726 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/26/2006
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: I love eBay
                                                                                                                            Sometimes that can work to our advantage, like the Varney trucks that got no bids because the seller put them in the "diecast toys" catagory, or my almost legendary purchase of a "wood boxcar with paper on the sides" for twenty five cents that turned out to be a Silver Streak reefer with Central Valleys and Kadees.
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            OTOH you have people like this
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            Don
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                            Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 7:17 PM
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [vintageHO] I love eBay

                                                                                                                            I think it would look great in Milwaukee Northern paint. The seller was
                                                                                                                            right about the fact he knows nothing about trains. Roger Aultman

                                                                                                                            Don Dellmann wrote:
                                                                                                                            > Anybody need a couple Athearn cabeese? I bought it for the HObbyline FM.
                                                                                                                            > (and the rather unusual B&M box car. I've seen that scheme before, but it's
                                                                                                                            > nowhere near as common as the all blue)
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?ViewItem& ih=012&sspagenam e=STRK%3AMEWN% 3AIT&viewitem= &item=2200505767 31
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Also, are the purists on the list going to throw me out if I paint the FM
                                                                                                                            > Milwaukee Northern?
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Don
                                                                                                                            > don.dellmann@ prodigy.net
                                                                                                                            > http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                                                                                                            > Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                            > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                                                                                                            > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                            > Co-moderator
                                                                                                                            > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >

                                                                                                                            --
                                                                                                                            http://www.nconnect .net/~raul/ AA1.htm

                                                                                                                            Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                                                                            http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/JohnEnglis h-Hobbyline/

                                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1727 From: Jack Priller Date: 11/26/2006
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: I love eBay
                                                                                                                            Seller at least knows what it is that he knows not, and in addition
                                                                                                                            to listing what he believed to be the correct scale, gave the back-to-
                                                                                                                            back dimension on the wheels. Have seen O listed variously as either
                                                                                                                            HO or Standard gauge; the number of sellers that list absolutely no
                                                                                                                            dimensions of what they claim they know nothing about approaches
                                                                                                                            astronomical.

                                                                                                                            Jack "Ye Olde Trolleynut" Priller


                                                                                                                            --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Roger Aultman <raul@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > I think it would look great in Milwaukee Northern paint. The seller
                                                                                                                            was
                                                                                                                            > right about the fact he knows nothing about trains. Roger Aultman
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1728 From: Rick Jones Date: 11/26/2006
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: I love eBay
                                                                                                                            Don Dellmann wrote:
                                                                                                                            > Sometimes that can work to our advantage, like the Varney trucks that
                                                                                                                            > got no bids because the seller put them in the "diecast toys" catagory,
                                                                                                                            > or my almost legendary purchase of a "wood boxcar with paper on the
                                                                                                                            > sides" for twenty five cents that turned out to be a Silver Streak
                                                                                                                            > reefer with Central Valleys and Kadees.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > OTOH you have people like this
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=012&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=220033734177
                                                                                                                            > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=012&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=220033734177>

                                                                                                                            OK, now that is just plain crooked. I hope there's nobody foolish
                                                                                                                            enough to fall for this scam.

                                                                                                                            --

                                                                                                                            Rick Jones
                                                                                                                            Founder of the Isaac Asimov
                                                                                                                            Memorial Wet T-shirt Contest

                                                                                                                            "The Constitution expressly and exclusively vests in the Legislature the
                                                                                                                            power of declaring a state of war... The separation of the power of
                                                                                                                            declaring war from that of conducting it is wisely contrived to exclude
                                                                                                                            the danger of its being declared for the sake of its being conducted."
                                                                                                                            -James Madison
                                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1729 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 11/26/2006
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: I love eBay
                                                                                                                            Oh come on you guys, the seller realized the error and ended the listing
                                                                                                                            early!!!

                                                                                                                            _________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                            Stay up-to-date with your friends through the Windows Live Spaces friends
                                                                                                                            list.
                                                                                                                            http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mk
                                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1730 From: Don Dellmann Date: 11/26/2006
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: I love eBay
                                                                                                                            The listing was up for a considerable length of time.  He dropped it once, lowered his price to $1000, then dropped it again and raised it back up.  Read the expanded version of the questions, you'll see not evidence of ignorance, rather arrogance. 
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            Don
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                            Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 2:44 PM
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [vintageHO] I love eBay

                                                                                                                            Oh come on you guys, the seller realized the error and ended the listing
                                                                                                                            early!!!

                                                                                                                            ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                                                                                                            Stay up-to-date with your friends through the Windows Live Spaces friends
                                                                                                                            list.
                                                                                                                            http://clk.atdmt. com/MSN/go/ msnnkwsp00700000 01msn/direct/ 01/?href= http://spaces. live.com/ spacesapi. aspx?wx_action= create&wx_ url=/friends. aspx&mk

                                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1731 From: Glenn Date: 11/26/2006
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: I love eBay
                                                                                                                            Is he still trying to sell that?? Hasn't he learned?  Perhaps he should go for low bidder to take it off his hands!
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            Yesterday at Medford OR train show ran into a dealer going by name of "Vintage HO".  No card--  Told him of the group. gj
                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                            Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 6:11 AM
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [vintageHO] I love eBay

                                                                                                                            Sometimes that can work to our advantage, like the Varney trucks that got no bids because the seller put them in the "diecast toys" catagory, or my almost legendary purchase of a "wood boxcar with paper on the sides" for twenty five cents that turned out to be a Silver Streak reefer with Central Valleys and Kadees.
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            OTOH you have people like this
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            Don
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                            Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 7:17 PM
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [vintageHO] I love eBay

                                                                                                                            I think it would look great in Milwaukee Northern paint. The seller was
                                                                                                                            right about the fact he knows nothing about trains. Roger Aultman

                                                                                                                            Don Dellmann wrote:
                                                                                                                            > Anybody need a couple Athearn cabeese? I bought it for the HObbyline FM.
                                                                                                                            > (and the rather unusual B&M box car. I've seen that scheme before, but it's
                                                                                                                            > nowhere near as common as the all blue)
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?ViewItem& ih=012&sspagenam e=STRK%3AMEWN% 3AIT&viewitem= &item=2200505767 31
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Also, are the purists on the list going to throw me out if I paint the FM
                                                                                                                            > Milwaukee Northern?
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Don
                                                                                                                            > don.dellmann@ prodigy.net
                                                                                                                            > http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                                                                                                            > Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                            > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                                                                                                            > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                            > Co-moderator
                                                                                                                            > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            >

                                                                                                                            --
                                                                                                                            http://www.nconnect .net/~raul/ AA1.htm

                                                                                                                            Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                                                                            http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/JohnEnglis h-Hobbyline/

                                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1732 From: Bob B Date: 11/27/2006
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: I love eBay
                                                                                                                            --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            !
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Yesterday at Medford OR train show ran into a dealer going by name
                                                                                                                            of "Vintage HO".

                                                                                                                            Sounds like a streetwalker way past her prime!

                                                                                                                            :)

                                                                                                                            Bob Boudreau
                                                                                                                            Canada
                                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1733 From: Garrett and Libby Rea Date: 11/27/2006
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: I love eBay
                                                                                                                            >>Have seen O listed variously as either
                                                                                                                            HO or Standard gauge; the number of sellers that list absolutely no
                                                                                                                            dimensions of what they claim they know nothing about approaches
                                                                                                                            astronomical.

                                                                                                                            Now now, that is how I got an LGB Ballenburg steam rack locomotive (retailed
                                                                                                                            for $900 or so) for $45 bucks, listed as "old German train" in the HO
                                                                                                                            listings.

                                                                                                                            Garrett
                                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1734 From: Jack Priller Date: 11/28/2006
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: I love eBay
                                                                                                                            I've found a few real goodies that way myself. My only real problem
                                                                                                                            with mis-listed eBay items occurs when seller won't bother, or takes
                                                                                                                            days, to answer questions. As a Marketing major (62 years old and
                                                                                                                            finally going to get a degree!), I would think they would want the
                                                                                                                            buyers to have as much information as possible.
                                                                                                                            On the flip side, I've had sellers list my question and
                                                                                                                            their "Ooops, I forgot that" answers under the item description.

                                                                                                                            Ye Olde Trolleynut
                                                                                                                            "To err is human; to forgive is NOT company policy."

                                                                                                                            --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Garrett and Libby Rea"
                                                                                                                            <glmp1995@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > >>Have seen O listed variously as either
                                                                                                                            > HO or Standard gauge; the number of sellers that list absolutely no
                                                                                                                            > dimensions of what they claim they know nothing about approaches
                                                                                                                            > astronomical.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Now now, that is how I got an LGB Ballenburg steam rack locomotive
                                                                                                                            (retailed
                                                                                                                            > for $900 or so) for $45 bucks, listed as "old German train" in the
                                                                                                                            HO
                                                                                                                            > listings.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Garrett
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1735 From: John Hagen Date: 11/28/2006
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: I love eBay
                                                                                                                            Hey Don,

                                                                                                                            I just may have use for them "cabeese".

                                                                                                                            Contact me off-line

                                                                                                                            John Hagen

                                                                                                                            --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
                                                                                                                            wrote:
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Anybody need a couple Athearn cabeese? I bought it for the
                                                                                                                            HObbyline FM.
                                                                                                                            > (and the rather unusual B&M box car. I've seen that scheme before,
                                                                                                                            but it's
                                                                                                                            > nowhere near as common as the all blue)
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
                                                                                                                            ViewItem&ih=012&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%
                                                                                                                            3AIT&viewitem=&item=220050576731
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Also, are the purists on the list going to throw me out if I paint
                                                                                                                            the FM
                                                                                                                            > Milwaukee Northern?
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Don
                                                                                                                            > don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                                            > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                                            > Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                            > Co-moderator
                                                                                                                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1736 From: Andrew Emmerson Date: 11/28/2006
                                                                                                                            Subject: Walthers 6412 Alco diesel and British H0
                                                                                                                            I hope this is not an impolite question from a new member... but I was
                                                                                                                            wondering what my chances were of buying the model 6412 Alco diesel
                                                                                                                            loco that Walthers made in the mid-1940s. I haven't seen one on eBay
                                                                                                                            but wondered if there were any dealers who specialise in this kind of
                                                                                                                            thing. Also looking for information on Reidpath Miniature Railroads,
                                                                                                                            who imported H0 parts from Britain during the 1930s (I collect Reidpath
                                                                                                                            models and other early British H0 material). Thanks for any help that
                                                                                                                            folk can give me! Andy Emmerson.
                                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1737 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 11/28/2006
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Walthers 6412 Alco diesel and British H0
                                                                                                                            Nothing about reidpath, but I have some Walthers ALCO hh-660 parts and one complete loco if you're interested. Was planning to put them up on ebay... no pics yet. At least two slightly different moulds, too.
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut)

                                                                                                                            Andrew Emmerson <andrew.emmerson4@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            I hope this is not an impolite question from a new member... but I was
                                                                                                                            wondering what my chances were of buying the model 6412 Alco diesel
                                                                                                                            loco that Walthers made in the mid-1940s. I haven't seen one on eBay
                                                                                                                            but wondered if there were any dealers who specialise in this kind of
                                                                                                                            thing. Also looking for information on Reidpath Miniature Railroads,
                                                                                                                            who imported H0 parts from Britain during the 1930s (I collect Reidpath
                                                                                                                            models and other early British H0 material). Thanks for any help that
                                                                                                                            folk can give me! Andy Emmerson.




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                                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1738 From: Andrew Bell Date: 11/29/2006
                                                                                                                            Subject: Walthers HH660
                                                                                                                            Fred, If Andy isn't interested in the Walthers HH models I certainly
                                                                                                                            would be .

                                                                                                                            Thanks
                                                                                                                            Andy Bell
                                                                                                                            Portland OR
                                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1739 From: John Barlow Date: 11/29/2006
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Walthers HH660
                                                                                                                            Guys, the HH660 has been done as a kit by JJL Models. I supposedly bought the last kit from the maker, but I hope he makes it available again for others. If Walthers made the 660 available, I'd love to see them also do the HH900 and HH1000. If you heard this is being done by Walthers...or proposed...I'd love to know. CNJ fans might love it in the C.R.R. of N.J. lettering, hitherto only available (or it was), using the Gingerbread Shop's "Susquehanna Group, Inc" decal sheet for the early diesels that were lettered in that fashion. The 660 and its successors were used by quite a few railroads. Add sound...fantastic!
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            John  

                                                                                                                            Andrew Bell <belsonic@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            Fred, If Andy isn't interested in the Walthers HH models I certainly
                                                                                                                            would be .

                                                                                                                            Thanks
                                                                                                                            Andy Bell
                                                                                                                            Portland OR



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                                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1740 From: John Barlow Date: 11/30/2006
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Walthers HH660-Correction Noted
                                                                                                                            I correct myself-it is the Gingerbread Stop (not Shop), and the decal set was No. 100-D2 "CNJ Diesel Switchers 1938-1944".
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            John W. Barlow (jdenver4150@...)

                                                                                                                            John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            Guys, the HH660 has been done as a kit by JJL Models. I supposedly bought the last kit from the maker, but I hope he makes it available again for others. If Walthers made the 660 available, I'd love to see them also do the HH900 and HH1000. If you heard this is being done by Walthers...or proposed...I' d love to know. CNJ fans might love it in the C.R.R. of N.J. lettering, hitherto only available (or it was), using the Gingerbread Shop's "Susquehanna Group, Inc" decal sheet for the early diesels that were lettered in that fashion. The 660 and its successors were used by quite a few railroads. Add sound...fantastic!
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            John  

                                                                                                                            Andrew Bell <belsonic@spiritone. com> wrote:
                                                                                                                            Fred, If Andy isn't interested in the Walthers HH models I certainly
                                                                                                                            would be .

                                                                                                                            Thanks
                                                                                                                            Andy Bell
                                                                                                                            Portland OR



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                                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1741 From: Garrett and Libby Rea Date: 12/1/2006
                                                                                                                            Subject: Any help for the old DC60 motors?
                                                                                                                            All:

                                                                                                                            I have an old Penn Line loco with a Pittman DC60 motor in it. Runs well,
                                                                                                                            but one very strange problem: it runs twice as fast backwards as forwards.

                                                                                                                            The loco has been taken apart, cleaned, oiled, no binds/stiffness, but it
                                                                                                                            sitll does this.

                                                                                                                            DC60s were popular for slotcars, and I decided to try Google to find out if
                                                                                                                            any "tune ups" were out there. I did find this:

                                                                                                                            http://www.geocities.com/budb3/arts/motor/pit60nmag.html

                                                                                                                            ...but no mention of what magnents he is using?

                                                                                                                            I would like to keep the DC60 in the engine, some have suggested a modern
                                                                                                                            can motor, but I would rather keep the model to older specs.

                                                                                                                            Thanks for any ideas-

                                                                                                                            Garrett
                                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1742 From: oljoeoh Date: 12/2/2006
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Any help for the old DC60 motors?
                                                                                                                            over time, Penn Line offered two different Whitcomb
                                                                                                                            switchers with DC60 motors. The first one placed the
                                                                                                                            axles directly in contact with the zamac mounting that
                                                                                                                            also held the worm gear that meshed with the gears
                                                                                                                            on the axels. Over time (years) this contact would
                                                                                                                            eventually wear enough to cause the issues you describe.
                                                                                                                            Another problem with this, axle in contact scheme, was
                                                                                                                            a tendency to wear differently if the loco was operated
                                                                                                                            in the same direction the majority of its operating time.
                                                                                                                            Over time this would cause the zamac to wear more on
                                                                                                                            the inside axels eventually binding up the loco. What
                                                                                                                            you describe happens in the early stages of the process.
                                                                                                                            It only gets worse until it won't run.

                                                                                                                            The other Whitcomb design had bearings that held the
                                                                                                                            axles in place with none of the wear associated with
                                                                                                                            the zamac situation. At the time I bought mine the
                                                                                                                            Whitcomb was the only Penn Line loco without bearings
                                                                                                                            on the axles.

                                                                                                                            I suggest you might want to watch ebay and snatch up
                                                                                                                            one of the Whitcombs that appear regularly. I got
                                                                                                                            three of mine that way.

                                                                                                                            The Whitcomb was one very inexpensive, quality loco.


                                                                                                                            --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Garrett and Libby Rea"
                                                                                                                            <glmp1995@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > All:
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > I have an old Penn Line loco with a Pittman DC60 motor in it. Runs
                                                                                                                            well,
                                                                                                                            > but one very strange problem: it runs twice as fast backwards as
                                                                                                                            forwards.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > The loco has been taken apart, cleaned, oiled, no binds/stiffness,
                                                                                                                            but it
                                                                                                                            > sitll does this.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > DC60s were popular for slotcars, and I decided to try Google to find
                                                                                                                            out if
                                                                                                                            > any "tune ups" were out there. I did find this:
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > http://www.geocities.com/budb3/arts/motor/pit60nmag.html
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > ...but no mention of what magnents he is using?
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > I would like to keep the DC60 in the engine, some have suggested a
                                                                                                                            modern
                                                                                                                            > can motor, but I would rather keep the model to older specs.
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Thanks for any ideas-
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > Garrett
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1743 From: Garrett W. Rea Date: 12/2/2006
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Any help for the old DC60 motors?
                                                                                                                            --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "oljoeoh" <oljoe@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                            > over time, Penn Line offered two different Whitcomb
                                                                                                                            > switchers with DC60 motors <sip>

                                                                                                                            Thanks, forgot to mention, it is an E6 that was REALLY well built and
                                                                                                                            detailed (brake shoes, sand lines, etc).

                                                                                                                            Also, the motor does it out of the loco and in my hand, so the gear
                                                                                                                            problem, while possible, is not the case here.

                                                                                                                            Thanks for the input!

                                                                                                                            Garrett
                                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1744 From: kilbeggan68 Date: 12/2/2006
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: MAGNETS?
                                                                                                                            Hello all.I finally have a chance to be on the "giving end".I have
                                                                                                                            purchased neodymium magnets from kjmagnetics.com The site is easy to
                                                                                                                            deal with and payment is quick.I think you will find a size to suit
                                                                                                                            your needs.I have 4 mu-2's that came back to life after new mags.
                                                                                                                            Hope this helps
                                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1745 From: Dale Smith Date: 12/2/2006
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Any help for the old DC60 motors?
                                                                                                                            This is a problem that also plagues American Flyer S Gauge trains and has been discussed at length on a Yahoo group devoted to those trains.  While those trains use AC series wound motors, the solution may be the same with a permanent magnet motor like a DC-60.  While brush contact may be an issue, the consensus has been that this is caused by the armature shifting back and forth because of a worn washer or spacer.  This shifting causes a binding.  Here is a snip from someone on that group who discussed the issue almost 10 years ago.
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            On locos going faster in one direction than the other, I had this happen

                                                                                                                            years ago, and the problem was too much play in the motor shaft. As the
                                                                                                                            direction changed, the armature was pushed in one direction and started
                                                                                                                            to
                                                                                                                            bind against its housing. In the other direction, it went the other way
                                                                                                                            and
                                                                                                                            was free. Replacing the worn washer at the end of the shaft corrected
                                                                                                                            the
                                                                                                                            problem.
                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                            Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 6:34 PM
                                                                                                                            Subject: [vintageHO] Any help for the old DC60 motors?

                                                                                                                            All:

                                                                                                                            I have an old Penn Line loco with a Pittman DC60 motor in it. Runs well,
                                                                                                                            but one very strange problem: it runs twice as fast backwards as forwards.

                                                                                                                            The loco has been taken apart, cleaned, oiled, no binds/stiffness, but it
                                                                                                                            sitll does this.

                                                                                                                            DC60s were popular for slotcars, and I decided to try Google to find out if
                                                                                                                            any "tune ups" were out there. I did find this:

                                                                                                                            http://www.geocitie s.com/budb3/ arts/motor/ pit60nmag. html

                                                                                                                            ...but no mention of what magnents he is using?

                                                                                                                            I would like to keep the DC60 in the engine, some have suggested a modern
                                                                                                                            can motor, but I would rather keep the model to older specs.

                                                                                                                            Thanks for any ideas-

                                                                                                                            Garrett

                                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1746 From: Glenn Date: 12/2/2006
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Any help for the old DC60 motors?
                                                                                                                            A common problem--I had several that did the same.  I forget exactly what--but I think that adjusting the brush tension, and taking up the end-play in the armature helps.   gj
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                            Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 6:34 PM
                                                                                                                            Subject: [vintageHO] Any help for the old DC60 motors?

                                                                                                                            All:

                                                                                                                            I have an old Penn Line loco with a Pittman DC60 motor in it. Runs well,
                                                                                                                            but one very strange problem: it runs twice as fast backwards as forwards.

                                                                                                                            The loco has been taken apart, cleaned, oiled, no binds/stiffness, but it
                                                                                                                            sitll does this.

                                                                                                                            DC60s were popular for slotcars, and I decided to try Google to find out if
                                                                                                                            any "tune ups" were out there. I did find this:

                                                                                                                            http://www.geocitie s.com/budb3/ arts/motor/ pit60nmag. html

                                                                                                                            ...but no mention of what magnents he is using?

                                                                                                                            I would like to keep the DC60 in the engine, some have suggested a modern
                                                                                                                            can motor, but I would rather keep the model to older specs.

                                                                                                                            Thanks for any ideas-

                                                                                                                            Garrett

                                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1747 From: Glenn Date: 12/2/2006
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Any help for the old DC60 motors?
                                                                                                                            Suggestion:  use Kadee or NWSL insulated washers, clip them to allow snapping over the shaft at the worm end of the motor without disassembling the worm from the shaft.
                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                            From: Dale Smith
                                                                                                                            Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 12:04 PM
                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Any help for the old DC60 motors?

                                                                                                                            This is a problem that also plagues American Flyer S Gauge trains and has been discussed at length on a Yahoo group devoted to those trains.  While those trains use AC series wound motors, the solution may be the same with a permanent magnet motor like a DC-60.  While brush contact may be an issue, the consensus has been that this is caused by the armature shifting back and forth because of a worn washer or spacer.  This shifting causes a binding.  Here is a snip from someone on that group who discussed the issue almost 10 years ago.
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            On locos going faster in one direction than the other, I had this happen

                                                                                                                            years ago, and the problem was too much play in the motor shaft. As the
                                                                                                                            direction changed, the armature was pushed in one direction and started
                                                                                                                            to
                                                                                                                            bind against its housing. In the other direction, it went the other way
                                                                                                                            and
                                                                                                                            was free. Replacing the worn washer at the end of the shaft corrected
                                                                                                                            the
                                                                                                                            problem.
                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                            Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 6:34 PM
                                                                                                                            Subject: [vintageHO] Any help for the old DC60 motors?

                                                                                                                            All:

                                                                                                                            I have an old Penn Line loco with a Pittman DC60 motor in it. Runs well,
                                                                                                                            but one very strange problem: it runs twice as fast backwards as forwards.

                                                                                                                            The loco has been taken apart, cleaned, oiled, no binds/stiffness, but it
                                                                                                                            sitll does this.

                                                                                                                            DC60s were popular for slotcars, and I decided to try Google to find out if
                                                                                                                            any "tune ups" were out there. I did find this:

                                                                                                                            http://www.geocitie s.com/budb3/ arts/motor/ pit60nmag. html

                                                                                                                            ...but no mention of what magnents he is using?

                                                                                                                            I would like to keep the DC60 in the engine, some have suggested a modern
                                                                                                                            can motor, but I would rather keep the model to older specs.

                                                                                                                            Thanks for any ideas-

                                                                                                                            Garrett

                                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1748 From: Imp Ster Date: 12/5/2006
                                                                                                                            Subject: Any help for the old DC60 motors?
                                                                                                                            sounds like the brushes are biased.
                                                                                                                            common in vintage or well-run engines.
                                                                                                                            try re-tensioning brushes and check spacing (insulating) slots in commuter to be sure they arent full of brush carbon.
                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                            ... 


                                                                                                                            Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
                                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1749 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/9/2006
                                                                                                                            Subject: New aquisitions
                                                                                                                            Attachments :
                                                                                                                              A couple weeks ago I mentioned I had finally found a Varney Virginian
                                                                                                                              hopper. Now I have TWO of them.
                                                                                                                              The second one was actually an unbuilt kit, and until I received it I didn't
                                                                                                                              realize there were at least two different variations in the body die. The
                                                                                                                              second one is the earlier die with separate glued on ladders and metal
                                                                                                                              stirrup steps, the first one is the later model with the moulded on ladders.

                                                                                                                              Varney also made mention in the instruction sheet that subsequent models
                                                                                                                              would have different road numbers, so I have 23334 & 23335 without having to
                                                                                                                              change numbers.

                                                                                                                              This came in a red box, any ideas as to the vintage? The instructions imply
                                                                                                                              that this Varney's first plastic kit.

                                                                                                                              Don

                                                                                                                              don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                                              http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                                              Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                              Co-moderator
                                                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1750 From: tomvanhoy Date: 12/9/2006
                                                                                                                              Subject: Old motor help
                                                                                                                              I was checking out the Railroad Model Craftsman magazine from
                                                                                                                              August 1955 and they have an article on motor servicing. Besides
                                                                                                                              the usual cleaning out the carbon tips, they do mention the need to
                                                                                                                              add spacers to eliminate end play and keep the brushes from rubbing on
                                                                                                                              the edges of the commutator. So this has been a problem since they
                                                                                                                              were new!
                                                                                                                              Hope this helps,
                                                                                                                              Tom
                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1751 From: erieberk Date: 12/9/2006
                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: New aquisitions
                                                                                                                              Don, As for the vintage on these cars, your two different road
                                                                                                                              numbers were offered for sale starting in two different years.
                                                                                                                              Unless the 23334 originally came unpainted (with decals), this one
                                                                                                                              may have been produced as early as 1956. The 23335 was produced from
                                                                                                                              1957 - 1959.

                                                                                                                              These hoppers were made in four different series. The first Series
                                                                                                                              was Catalog #H-5, of which some were pre-painted and lettered and
                                                                                                                              some were not. These included: 23332 (produced 1950 - 54) unpainted
                                                                                                                              w/decals, 23333 (1951 - 54) unpainted w/decals, 23334 (1952 - 54)
                                                                                                                              unpainted w/decals, 23334 (1956 - 59) painted, 23335 (1957 - 59)
                                                                                                                              painted. This Series had the H-5 on the 5th panel.

                                                                                                                              The second Series was the "Pro-Type" hopper kits. The Virginian in
                                                                                                                              this series were Catalog #H-105. These included: 23334 (1961 - 62)
                                                                                                                              and 23335 (1959 - 62).

                                                                                                                              The third Series was the "Economy" Series hopper kits, which included
                                                                                                                              Catalog #HE-5 23334 (1958 - 59) and Catalog #2727K 23334 (1958 - 59)
                                                                                                                              for Virginian.

                                                                                                                              The last were the "Ready-to-Run" Series hoppers, and included Catalog
                                                                                                                              #2467VGN 23334 (1957 - 58) or 2467V 23334 (1961 - 62).

                                                                                                                              If your red box is the one which has a yellow oval with bold black "A
                                                                                                                              Varney Kit" lettering and seven black silhouetted freight cars
                                                                                                                              underneath, this box was first used in 1949 and was used throughout
                                                                                                                              the upcoming years for various freight car kits, so that won't pin-
                                                                                                                              point the date.

                                                                                                                              As far as the instructions saying this was Varney's first plastic
                                                                                                                              kit, I would have to presume it meant the first one-piece molded
                                                                                                                              plastic kit. Varney produced pre-War kits of plastic (tenite); a #G-
                                                                                                                              1 gondola (1939) with all tenite plastic construction (of individual
                                                                                                                              sides and ends) and a #CC cattle car (1939 - 40) with tenite plastic
                                                                                                                              sides, both undecorated. Later the CC was produced with 5 different
                                                                                                                              roadname plaquards. Best Wishes, Ray Wetzel


                                                                                                                              --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
                                                                                                                              wrote:
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > A couple weeks ago I mentioned I had finally found a Varney
                                                                                                                              Virginian
                                                                                                                              > hopper. Now I have TWO of them.
                                                                                                                              > The second one was actually an unbuilt kit, and until I received it
                                                                                                                              I didn't
                                                                                                                              > realize there were at least two different variations in the body
                                                                                                                              die. The
                                                                                                                              > second one is the earlier die with separate glued on ladders and
                                                                                                                              metal
                                                                                                                              > stirrup steps, the first one is the later model with the moulded on
                                                                                                                              ladders.
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > Varney also made mention in the instruction sheet that subsequent
                                                                                                                              models
                                                                                                                              > would have different road numbers, so I have 23334 & 23335 without
                                                                                                                              having to
                                                                                                                              > change numbers.
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > This came in a red box, any ideas as to the vintage? The
                                                                                                                              instructions imply
                                                                                                                              > that this Varney's first plastic kit.
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > Don
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                                              > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                                              > Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                              > Co-moderator
                                                                                                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1752 From: Glenn Date: 12/9/2006
                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: New aquisitions
                                                                                                                              besides these being just early Varney cars, they are among the first real production plastic cars in HO.
                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                              I have researched the subject for a couple of clinics at PCR conventions  gj
                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                              From: erieberk
                                                                                                                              Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 6:15 PM
                                                                                                                              Subject: [vintageHO] Re: New aquisitions

                                                                                                                              Don, As for the vintage on these cars, your two different road
                                                                                                                              numbers were offered for sale starting in two different years.
                                                                                                                              Unless the 23334 originally came unpainted (with decals), this one
                                                                                                                              may have been produced as early as 1956. The 23335 was produced from
                                                                                                                              1957 - 1959.

                                                                                                                              These hoppers were made in four different series. The first Series
                                                                                                                              was Catalog #H-5, of which some were pre-painted and lettered and
                                                                                                                              some were not. These included: 23332 (produced 1950 - 54) unpainted
                                                                                                                              w/decals, 23333 (1951 - 54) unpainted w/decals, 23334 (1952 - 54)
                                                                                                                              unpainted w/decals, 23334 (1956 - 59) painted, 23335 (1957 - 59)
                                                                                                                              painted. This Series had the H-5 on the 5th panel.

                                                                                                                              The second Series was the "Pro-Type" hopper kits. The Virginian in
                                                                                                                              this series were Catalog #H-105. These included: 23334 (1961 - 62)
                                                                                                                              and 23335 (1959 - 62).

                                                                                                                              The third Series was the "Economy" Series hopper kits, which included
                                                                                                                              Catalog #HE-5 23334 (1958 - 59) and Catalog #2727K 23334 (1958 - 59)
                                                                                                                              for Virginian.

                                                                                                                              The last were the "Ready-to-Run" Series hoppers, and included Catalog
                                                                                                                              #2467VGN 23334 (1957 - 58) or 2467V 23334 (1961 - 62).

                                                                                                                              If your red box is the one which has a yellow oval with bold black "A
                                                                                                                              Varney Kit" lettering and seven black silhouetted freight cars
                                                                                                                              underneath, this box was first used in 1949 and was used throughout
                                                                                                                              the upcoming years for various freight car kits, so that won't pin-
                                                                                                                              point the date.

                                                                                                                              As far as the instructions saying this was Varney's first plastic
                                                                                                                              kit, I would have to presume it meant the first one-piece molded
                                                                                                                              plastic kit. Varney produced pre-War kits of plastic (tenite); a #G-
                                                                                                                              1 gondola (1939) with all tenite plastic construction (of individual
                                                                                                                              sides and ends) and a #CC cattle car (1939 - 40) with tenite plastic
                                                                                                                              sides, both undecorated. Later the CC was produced with 5 different
                                                                                                                              roadname plaquards. Best Wishes, Ray Wetzel

                                                                                                                              --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@ ...>
                                                                                                                              wrote:
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > A couple weeks ago I mentioned I had finally found a Varney
                                                                                                                              Virginian
                                                                                                                              > hopper. Now I have TWO of them.
                                                                                                                              > The second one was actually an unbuilt kit, and until I received it
                                                                                                                              I didn't
                                                                                                                              > realize there were at least two different variations in the body
                                                                                                                              die. The
                                                                                                                              > second one is the earlier die with separate glued on ladders and
                                                                                                                              metal
                                                                                                                              > stirrup steps, the first one is the later model with the moulded on
                                                                                                                              ladders.
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > Varney also made mention in the instruction sheet that subsequent
                                                                                                                              models
                                                                                                                              > would have different road numbers, so I have 23334 & 23335 without
                                                                                                                              having to
                                                                                                                              > change numbers.
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > This came in a red box, any ideas as to the vintage? The
                                                                                                                              instructions imply
                                                                                                                              > that this Varney's first plastic kit.
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > Don
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > don.dellmann@ ...
                                                                                                                              > http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                                                                                                              > Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                              > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                                                                                                              > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                              > Co-moderator
                                                                                                                              > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY
                                                                                                                              >

                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1753 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/9/2006
                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: New aquisitions
                                                                                                                              The box IS marked H-5, and is factory paint, so I'm guessing from your info, it's the '56-59 version.  By elimination, my first one is probably the H-105 from 1959-62 (did these have the molded on ladders?)  Both cars have metal underframes, although the 2335 is much simpler, not having end platforms or brake gear and the coupler pockets are molded into the body..  Both cars say H-5 on the fifth panel under the build date, the lettering on the newer 23335 is white, the older 23334 is more silver.
                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                              I also found it rather curious that this latest kit did not have the original Varney trucks, the trucks appear instead to be MDC or Silver Streak, although they could have been tossed in the box at some other time during the last 50 years.  They were in an unmarked white cardboard box.
                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                              Don
                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                              From: erieberk
                                                                                                                              Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 8:15 PM
                                                                                                                              Subject: [vintageHO] Re: New aquisitions

                                                                                                                              Don, As for the vintage on these cars, your two different road
                                                                                                                              numbers were offered for sale starting in two different years.
                                                                                                                              Unless the 23334 originally came unpainted (with decals), this one
                                                                                                                              may have been produced as early as 1956. The 23335 was produced from
                                                                                                                              1957 - 1959.

                                                                                                                              These hoppers were made in four different series. The first Series
                                                                                                                              was Catalog #H-5, of which some were pre-painted and lettered and
                                                                                                                              some were not. These included: 23332 (produced 1950 - 54) unpainted
                                                                                                                              w/decals, 23333 (1951 - 54) unpainted w/decals, 23334 (1952 - 54)
                                                                                                                              unpainted w/decals, 23334 (1956 - 59) painted, 23335 (1957 - 59)
                                                                                                                              painted. This Series had the H-5 on the 5th panel.

                                                                                                                              The second Series was the "Pro-Type" hopper kits. The Virginian in
                                                                                                                              this series were Catalog #H-105. These included: 23334 (1961 - 62)
                                                                                                                              and 23335 (1959 - 62).

                                                                                                                              The third Series was the "Economy" Series hopper kits, which included
                                                                                                                              Catalog #HE-5 23334 (1958 - 59) and Catalog #2727K 23334 (1958 - 59)
                                                                                                                              for Virginian.

                                                                                                                              The last were the "Ready-to-Run" Series hoppers, and included Catalog
                                                                                                                              #2467VGN 23334 (1957 - 58) or 2467V 23334 (1961 - 62).

                                                                                                                              If your red box is the one which has a yellow oval with bold black "A
                                                                                                                              Varney Kit" lettering and seven black silhouetted freight cars
                                                                                                                              underneath, this box was first used in 1949 and was used throughout
                                                                                                                              the upcoming years for various freight car kits, so that won't pin-
                                                                                                                              point the date.

                                                                                                                              As far as the instructions saying this was Varney's first plastic
                                                                                                                              kit, I would have to presume it meant the first one-piece molded
                                                                                                                              plastic kit. Varney produced pre-War kits of plastic (tenite); a #G-
                                                                                                                              1 gondola (1939) with all tenite plastic construction (of individual
                                                                                                                              sides and ends) and a #CC cattle car (1939 - 40) with tenite plastic
                                                                                                                              sides, both undecorated. Later the CC was produced with 5 different
                                                                                                                              roadname plaquards. Best Wishes, Ray Wetzel

                                                                                                                              --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@ ...>
                                                                                                                              wrote:
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > A couple weeks ago I mentioned I had finally found a Varney
                                                                                                                              Virginian
                                                                                                                              > hopper. Now I have TWO of them.
                                                                                                                              > The second one was actually an unbuilt kit, and until I received it
                                                                                                                              I didn't
                                                                                                                              > realize there were at least two different variations in the body
                                                                                                                              die. The
                                                                                                                              > second one is the earlier die with separate glued on ladders and
                                                                                                                              metal
                                                                                                                              > stirrup steps, the first one is the later model with the moulded on
                                                                                                                              ladders.
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > Varney also made mention in the instruction sheet that subsequent
                                                                                                                              models
                                                                                                                              > would have different road numbers, so I have 23334 & 23335 without
                                                                                                                              having to
                                                                                                                              > change numbers.
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > This came in a red box, any ideas as to the vintage? The
                                                                                                                              instructions imply
                                                                                                                              > that this Varney's first plastic kit.
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > Don
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > don.dellmann@ ...
                                                                                                                              > http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                                                                                                              > Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                              > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                                                                                                              > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                              > Co-moderator
                                                                                                                              > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY
                                                                                                                              >

                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1754 From: erieberk Date: 12/9/2006
                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: New aquisitions
                                                                                                                              Okay, going by what you are adding here, I can further verify that
                                                                                                                              your VGN 23335 is an H-105. These Pro-Type hopper kits had a smaller
                                                                                                                              molded weight that fit between the hopper pockets and stopped just
                                                                                                                              short of the truck mount, that was substituted in place of the
                                                                                                                              original weight. The brake parts were not included in the H-105 kit,
                                                                                                                              as their attachment points vanished with these metal frames. Yes,
                                                                                                                              the ladders were molded on, on this version. Athearn style sprung
                                                                                                                              trucks with needle point axles were included with this kit.

                                                                                                                              Your 23334 IS an H-5, just as the box indicates, going by your
                                                                                                                              description. I kind of figured that your 23335 also still had the "H-
                                                                                                                              5" on the fifth panel. I don't have that particular car myself, but
                                                                                                                              helped Dave Spanagel in compiling the information for
                                                                                                                              his "Greenberg's Guide to Varney Trains" book in 1991. Ray


                                                                                                                              --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
                                                                                                                              wrote:
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > The box IS marked H-5, and is factory paint, so I'm guessing from
                                                                                                                              your info, it's the '56-59 version. By elimination, my first one is
                                                                                                                              probably the H-105 from 1959-62 (did these have the molded on
                                                                                                                              ladders?) Both cars have metal underframes, although the 2335 is
                                                                                                                              much simpler, not having end platforms or brake gear and the coupler
                                                                                                                              pockets are molded into the body.. Both cars say H-5 on the fifth
                                                                                                                              panel under the build date, the lettering on the newer 23335 is
                                                                                                                              white, the older 23334 is more silver.
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > I also found it rather curious that this latest kit did not have
                                                                                                                              the original Varney trucks, the trucks appear instead to be MDC or
                                                                                                                              Silver Streak, although they could have been tossed in the box at
                                                                                                                              some other time during the last 50 years. They were in an unmarked
                                                                                                                              white cardboard box.
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > Don
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                              > From: erieberk
                                                                                                                              > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                              > Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 8:15 PM
                                                                                                                              > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: New aquisitions
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > Don, As for the vintage on these cars, your two different road
                                                                                                                              > numbers were offered for sale starting in two different years.
                                                                                                                              > Unless the 23334 originally came unpainted (with decals), this
                                                                                                                              one
                                                                                                                              > may have been produced as early as 1956. The 23335 was produced
                                                                                                                              from
                                                                                                                              > 1957 - 1959.
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > These hoppers were made in four different series. The first
                                                                                                                              Series
                                                                                                                              > was Catalog #H-5, of which some were pre-painted and lettered and
                                                                                                                              > some were not. These included: 23332 (produced 1950 - 54)
                                                                                                                              unpainted
                                                                                                                              > w/decals, 23333 (1951 - 54) unpainted w/decals, 23334 (1952 - 54)
                                                                                                                              > unpainted w/decals, 23334 (1956 - 59) painted, 23335 (1957 - 59)
                                                                                                                              > painted. This Series had the H-5 on the 5th panel.
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > The second Series was the "Pro-Type" hopper kits. The Virginian
                                                                                                                              in
                                                                                                                              > this series were Catalog #H-105. These included: 23334 (1961 -
                                                                                                                              62)
                                                                                                                              > and 23335 (1959 - 62).
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > The third Series was the "Economy" Series hopper kits, which
                                                                                                                              included
                                                                                                                              > Catalog #HE-5 23334 (1958 - 59) and Catalog #2727K 23334 (1958 -
                                                                                                                              59)
                                                                                                                              > for Virginian.
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > The last were the "Ready-to-Run" Series hoppers, and included
                                                                                                                              Catalog
                                                                                                                              > #2467VGN 23334 (1957 - 58) or 2467V 23334 (1961 - 62).
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > If your red box is the one which has a yellow oval with bold
                                                                                                                              black "A
                                                                                                                              > Varney Kit" lettering and seven black silhouetted freight cars
                                                                                                                              > underneath, this box was first used in 1949 and was used
                                                                                                                              throughout
                                                                                                                              > the upcoming years for various freight car kits, so that won't
                                                                                                                              pin-
                                                                                                                              > point the date.
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > As far as the instructions saying this was Varney's first plastic
                                                                                                                              > kit, I would have to presume it meant the first one-piece molded
                                                                                                                              > plastic kit. Varney produced pre-War kits of plastic (tenite); a
                                                                                                                              #G-
                                                                                                                              > 1 gondola (1939) with all tenite plastic construction (of
                                                                                                                              individual
                                                                                                                              > sides and ends) and a #CC cattle car (1939 - 40) with tenite
                                                                                                                              plastic
                                                                                                                              > sides, both undecorated. Later the CC was produced with 5
                                                                                                                              different
                                                                                                                              > roadname plaquards. Best Wishes, Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@>
                                                                                                                              > wrote:
                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                              > > A couple weeks ago I mentioned I had finally found a Varney
                                                                                                                              > Virginian
                                                                                                                              > > hopper. Now I have TWO of them.
                                                                                                                              > > The second one was actually an unbuilt kit, and until I
                                                                                                                              received it
                                                                                                                              > I didn't
                                                                                                                              > > realize there were at least two different variations in the
                                                                                                                              body
                                                                                                                              > die. The
                                                                                                                              > > second one is the earlier die with separate glued on ladders
                                                                                                                              and
                                                                                                                              > metal
                                                                                                                              > > stirrup steps, the first one is the later model with the
                                                                                                                              moulded on
                                                                                                                              > ladders.
                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                              > > Varney also made mention in the instruction sheet that
                                                                                                                              subsequent
                                                                                                                              > models
                                                                                                                              > > would have different road numbers, so I have 23334 & 23335
                                                                                                                              without
                                                                                                                              > having to
                                                                                                                              > > change numbers.
                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                              > > This came in a red box, any ideas as to the vintage? The
                                                                                                                              > instructions imply
                                                                                                                              > > that this Varney's first plastic kit.
                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                              > > Don
                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                              > > don.dellmann@
                                                                                                                              > > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                                              > > Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                                              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                              > > Co-moderator
                                                                                                                              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1755 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/10/2006
                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: New aquisitions
                                                                                                                              Thank you.  It never ceases to amaze me the amount of knowledge that's gathered here. 
                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                              Don
                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                              From: erieberk
                                                                                                                              Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 1:28 AM
                                                                                                                              Subject: [vintageHO] Re: New aquisitions

                                                                                                                              Okay, going by what you are adding here, I can further verify that
                                                                                                                              your VGN 23335 is an H-105. These Pro-Type hopper kits had a smaller
                                                                                                                              molded weight that fit between the hopper pockets and stopped just
                                                                                                                              short of the truck mount, that was substituted in place of the
                                                                                                                              original weight. The brake parts were not included in the H-105 kit,
                                                                                                                              as their attachment points vanished with these metal frames. Yes,
                                                                                                                              the ladders were molded on, on this version. Athearn style sprung
                                                                                                                              trucks with needle point axles were included with this kit.

                                                                                                                              Your 23334 IS an H-5, just as the box indicates, going by your
                                                                                                                              description. I kind of figured that your 23335 also still had the "H-
                                                                                                                              5" on the fifth panel. I don't have that particular car myself, but
                                                                                                                              helped Dave Spanagel in compiling the information for
                                                                                                                              his "Greenberg's Guide to Varney Trains" book in 1991. Ray

                                                                                                                              --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@ ...>
                                                                                                                              wrote:
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > The box IS marked H-5, and is factory paint, so I'm guessing from
                                                                                                                              your info, it's the '56-59 version. By elimination, my first one is
                                                                                                                              probably the H-105 from 1959-62 (did these have the molded on
                                                                                                                              ladders?) Both cars have metal underframes, although the 2335 is
                                                                                                                              much simpler, not having end platforms or brake gear and the coupler
                                                                                                                              pockets are molded into the body.. Both cars say H-5 on the fifth
                                                                                                                              panel under the build date, the lettering on the newer 23335 is
                                                                                                                              white, the older 23334 is more silver.
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > I also found it rather curious that this latest kit did not have
                                                                                                                              the original Varney trucks, the trucks appear instead to be MDC or
                                                                                                                              Silver Streak, although they could have been tossed in the box at
                                                                                                                              some other time during the last 50 years. They were in an unmarked
                                                                                                                              white cardboard box.
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > Don
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                              > From: erieberk
                                                                                                                              > To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                                                                              > Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 8:15 PM
                                                                                                                              > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: New aquisitions
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > Don, As for the vintage on these cars, your two different road
                                                                                                                              > numbers were offered for sale starting in two different years.
                                                                                                                              > Unless the 23334 originally came unpainted (with decals), this
                                                                                                                              one
                                                                                                                              > may have been produced as early as 1956. The 23335 was produced
                                                                                                                              from
                                                                                                                              > 1957 - 1959.
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > These hoppers were made in four different series. The first
                                                                                                                              Series
                                                                                                                              > was Catalog #H-5, of which some were pre-painted and lettered and
                                                                                                                              > some were not. These included: 23332 (produced 1950 - 54)
                                                                                                                              unpainted
                                                                                                                              > w/decals, 23333 (1951 - 54) unpainted w/decals, 23334 (1952 - 54)
                                                                                                                              > unpainted w/decals, 23334 (1956 - 59) painted, 23335 (1957 - 59)
                                                                                                                              > painted. This Series had the H-5 on the 5th panel.
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > The second Series was the "Pro-Type" hopper kits. The Virginian
                                                                                                                              in
                                                                                                                              > this series were Catalog #H-105. These included: 23334 (1961 -
                                                                                                                              62)
                                                                                                                              > and 23335 (1959 - 62).
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > The third Series was the "Economy" Series hopper kits, which
                                                                                                                              included
                                                                                                                              > Catalog #HE-5 23334 (1958 - 59) and Catalog #2727K 23334 (1958 -
                                                                                                                              59)
                                                                                                                              > for Virginian.
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > The last were the "Ready-to-Run" Series hoppers, and included
                                                                                                                              Catalog
                                                                                                                              > #2467VGN 23334 (1957 - 58) or 2467V 23334 (1961 - 62).
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > If your red box is the one which has a yellow oval with bold
                                                                                                                              black "A
                                                                                                                              > Varney Kit" lettering and seven black silhouetted freight cars
                                                                                                                              > underneath, this box was first used in 1949 and was used
                                                                                                                              throughout
                                                                                                                              > the upcoming years for various freight car kits, so that won't
                                                                                                                              pin-
                                                                                                                              > point the date.
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > As far as the instructions saying this was Varney's first plastic
                                                                                                                              > kit, I would have to presume it meant the first one-piece molded
                                                                                                                              > plastic kit. Varney produced pre-War kits of plastic (tenite); a
                                                                                                                              #G-
                                                                                                                              > 1 gondola (1939) with all tenite plastic construction (of
                                                                                                                              individual
                                                                                                                              > sides and ends) and a #CC cattle car (1939 - 40) with tenite
                                                                                                                              plastic
                                                                                                                              > sides, both undecorated. Later the CC was produced with 5
                                                                                                                              different
                                                                                                                              > roadname plaquards. Best Wishes, Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@ >
                                                                                                                              > wrote:
                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                              > > A couple weeks ago I mentioned I had finally found a Varney
                                                                                                                              > Virginian
                                                                                                                              > > hopper. Now I have TWO of them.
                                                                                                                              > > The second one was actually an unbuilt kit, and until I
                                                                                                                              received it
                                                                                                                              > I didn't
                                                                                                                              > > realize there were at least two different variations in the
                                                                                                                              body
                                                                                                                              > die. The
                                                                                                                              > > second one is the earlier die with separate glued on ladders
                                                                                                                              and
                                                                                                                              > metal
                                                                                                                              > > stirrup steps, the first one is the later model with the
                                                                                                                              moulded on
                                                                                                                              > ladders.
                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                              > > Varney also made mention in the instruction sheet that
                                                                                                                              subsequent
                                                                                                                              > models
                                                                                                                              > > would have different road numbers, so I have 23334 & 23335
                                                                                                                              without
                                                                                                                              > having to
                                                                                                                              > > change numbers.
                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                              > > This came in a red box, any ideas as to the vintage? The
                                                                                                                              > instructions imply
                                                                                                                              > > that this Varney's first plastic kit.
                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                              > > Don
                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                              > > don.dellmann@
                                                                                                                              > > http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                                                                                                              > > Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                              > > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                                                                                                              > > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                              > > Co-moderator
                                                                                                                              > > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY
                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                              >

                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1756 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/12/2006
                                                                                                                              Subject: More goodies
                                                                                                                              Attachments :
                                                                                                                                Another eBay box came today!

                                                                                                                                This was the one I was waiting for, my Hobbyline H-10-44. I haven't opened
                                                                                                                                it up yet to see if I can make it run, but all the pieces seem to be there,
                                                                                                                                even the drive belt (although it will probably crumble when I touch it).

                                                                                                                                The other goodie I really wanted....
                                                                                                                                Everybody has the Athearn blue B&M box car, but not as many people have the
                                                                                                                                BLACK one!

                                                                                                                                Still on the bench, a Marx GN Green AAR box car that needs new trucks and
                                                                                                                                couplers, and a Varney plastic single sheathed SP box that also needs doors
                                                                                                                                on both sides. The wood doors from the MDC 36' old time box car fit
                                                                                                                                perfectly, unless someone has a pair of Varneys to contribute to the cause.

                                                                                                                                One more box coming next week, 3 MDC metal box cars.

                                                                                                                                PING to John Hagen, when do you want to come pick up the two cabeese?

                                                                                                                                Don

                                                                                                                                don.dellmann@...
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                                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1757 From: Glenn Date: 12/12/2006
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: More goodies
                                                                                                                                Don--the English ALCo was the first HO loco I bought with my lawn-mowing money.  It was disappointing in operation mainly due to the attempt to use plastic tube for u-joints between worm shafts. I finally got them to run by removing the wormshaft from the non-motor truck.  THe FM I got a ffew years later was the same.  I'd use a set of Hobbytown universals--you can probably find an "O-ring" to replace the belt. gj
                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 5:39 PM
                                                                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] More goodies

                                                                                                                                Another eBay box came today!

                                                                                                                                This was the one I was waiting for, my Hobbyline H-10-44. I haven't opened
                                                                                                                                it up yet to see if I can make it run, but all the pieces seem to be there,
                                                                                                                                even the drive belt (although it will probably crumble when I touch it).

                                                                                                                                The other goodie I really wanted....
                                                                                                                                Everybody has the Athearn blue B&M box car, but not as many people have the
                                                                                                                                BLACK one!

                                                                                                                                Still on the bench, a Marx GN Green AAR box car that needs new trucks and
                                                                                                                                couplers, and a Varney plastic single sheathed SP box that also needs doors
                                                                                                                                on both sides. The wood doors from the MDC 36' old time box car fit
                                                                                                                                perfectly, unless someone has a pair of Varneys to contribute to the cause.

                                                                                                                                One more box coming next week, 3 MDC metal box cars.

                                                                                                                                PING to John Hagen, when do you want to come pick up the two cabeese?

                                                                                                                                Don

                                                                                                                                don.dellmann@ prodigy.net
                                                                                                                                http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
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                                                                                                                                http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
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                                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1758 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/13/2006
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: More goodies
                                                                                                                                This is only 4 wheel drive.  The front truck is not geared, and the gear shaftc on the power truck is not long enough to mount a universal. 
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                The drive belt is gone, what I was seeing was the remains stuck to the pulley.  The gear truck turns but needs cleaning and lube, and sitting on the track with power on the motor spins fine.  I'm taking it to work today to look through our stock of O rings to see if I can find one that fits (one of the advantages of working for an industrial rubber distributor).
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                A little clean and lube I may be in business tonight.  The only other project is building up a pad inside the pilots to mount kadees, then if I get ambitious, paint & decals.  With luck she'll run at least as good as my Varney NW-2.
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                Don
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                From: Glenn
                                                                                                                                Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 10:04 PM
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] More goodies

                                                                                                                                Don--the English ALCo was the first HO loco I bought with my lawn-mowing money.  It was disappointing in operation mainly due to the attempt to use plastic tube for u-joints between worm shafts. I finally got them to run by removing the wormshaft from the non-motor truck.  THe FM I got a ffew years later was the same.  I'd use a set of Hobbytown universals--you can probably find an "O-ring" to replace the belt. gj
                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 5:39 PM
                                                                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] More goodies

                                                                                                                                Another eBay box came today!

                                                                                                                                This was the one I was waiting for, my Hobbyline H-10-44. I haven't opened
                                                                                                                                it up yet to see if I can make it run, but all the pieces seem to be there,
                                                                                                                                even the drive belt (although it will probably crumble when I touch it).

                                                                                                                                The other goodie I really wanted....
                                                                                                                                Everybody has the Athearn blue B&M box car, but not as many people have the
                                                                                                                                BLACK one!

                                                                                                                                Still on the bench, a Marx GN Green AAR box car that needs new trucks and
                                                                                                                                couplers, and a Varney plastic single sheathed SP box that also needs doors
                                                                                                                                on both sides. The wood doors from the MDC 36' old time box car fit
                                                                                                                                perfectly, unless someone has a pair of Varneys to contribute to the cause.

                                                                                                                                One more box coming next week, 3 MDC metal box cars.

                                                                                                                                PING to John Hagen, when do you want to come pick up the two cabeese?

                                                                                                                                Don

                                                                                                                                don.dellmann@ prodigy.net
                                                                                                                                http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
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                                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1759 From: Roger Aultman Date: 12/13/2006
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: More goodies
                                                                                                                                Hello Don Glad to hear you got a H10, of the two I have one is a belt
                                                                                                                                drive the other is geared. Both run thought the belt one has a high
                                                                                                                                current draw, I might have put a O ring on it and it is too tight.
                                                                                                                                These are eight wheel drives but I would not doubt Hobbyline made a four
                                                                                                                                wheel model. Looks like it would not be too hard to fit one of the
                                                                                                                                eBay can motors if necessary. Roger Aultman





                                                                                                                                Don Dellmann wrote:
                                                                                                                                > This is only 4 wheel drive. The front truck is not geared, and the gear
                                                                                                                                > shaftc on the power truck is not long enough to mount a universal.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > The drive belt is gone, what I was seeing was the remains stuck to the
                                                                                                                                > pulley. The gear truck turns but needs cleaning and lube, and sitting
                                                                                                                                > on the track with power on the motor spins fine. I'm taking it to work
                                                                                                                                > today to look through our stock of O rings to see if I can find one that
                                                                                                                                > fits (one of the advantages of working for an industrial rubber
                                                                                                                                > distributor).
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > A little clean and lube I may be in business tonight. The only other
                                                                                                                                > project is building up a pad inside the pilots to mount kadees, then if
                                                                                                                                > I get ambitious, paint & decals. With luck she'll run at least as good
                                                                                                                                > as my Varney NW-2.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Don
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > don.dellmann@... <mailto:don.dellmann@...>
                                                                                                                                > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                                                > Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                                > Co-moderator
                                                                                                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                > From: Glenn <mailto:glenn476@...>
                                                                                                                                > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                > Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 10:04 PM
                                                                                                                                > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] More goodies
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Don--the English ALCo was the first HO loco I bought with my
                                                                                                                                > lawn-mowing money. It was disappointing in operation mainly due to
                                                                                                                                > the attempt to use plastic tube for u-joints between worm shafts. I
                                                                                                                                > finally got them to run by removing the wormshaft from the non-motor
                                                                                                                                > truck. THe FM I got a ffew years later was the same. I'd use a set
                                                                                                                                > of Hobbytown universals--you can probably find an "O-ring" to
                                                                                                                                > replace the belt. gj
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                > From: Don Dellmann <mailto:don.dellmann@...>
                                                                                                                                > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                > Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 5:39 PM
                                                                                                                                > Subject: [vintageHO] More goodies
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Another eBay box came today!
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > This was the one I was waiting for, my Hobbyline H-10-44. I
                                                                                                                                > haven't opened
                                                                                                                                > it up yet to see if I can make it run, but all the pieces seem
                                                                                                                                > to be there,
                                                                                                                                > even the drive belt (although it will probably crumble when I
                                                                                                                                > touch it).
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > The other goodie I really wanted....
                                                                                                                                > Everybody has the Athearn blue B&M box car, but not as many
                                                                                                                                > people have the
                                                                                                                                > BLACK one!
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Still on the bench, a Marx GN Green AAR box car that needs new
                                                                                                                                > trucks and
                                                                                                                                > couplers, and a Varney plastic single sheathed SP box that also
                                                                                                                                > needs doors
                                                                                                                                > on both sides. The wood doors from the MDC 36' old time box car fit
                                                                                                                                > perfectly, unless someone has a pair of Varneys to contribute to
                                                                                                                                > the cause.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > One more box coming next week, 3 MDC metal box cars.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > PING to John Hagen, when do you want to come pick up the two
                                                                                                                                > cabeese?
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Don
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > don.dellmann@... <mailto:don.dellmann%40prodigy.net>
                                                                                                                                > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
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                                                                                                                                > Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                                                > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics>
                                                                                                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                                > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO>
                                                                                                                                > Co-moderator
                                                                                                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
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                                                                                                                                >


                                                                                                                                --
                                                                                                                                http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

                                                                                                                                Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                                                                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1760 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/13/2006
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: More goodies
                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                From: "Roger Aultman" <raul@...>
                                                                                                                                To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 12:28 PM
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [vintageHO] More goodies


                                                                                                                                > Hello Don Glad to hear you got a H10, of the two I have one is a belt
                                                                                                                                > drive the other is geared. Both run thought the belt one has a high
                                                                                                                                > current draw, I might have put a O ring on it and it is too tight.
                                                                                                                                > These are eight wheel drives but I would not doubt Hobbyline made a four
                                                                                                                                > wheel model. Looks like it would not be too hard to fit one of the
                                                                                                                                > eBay can motors if necessary. Roger Aultman

                                                                                                                                Found an o-ring that seemed to fit, (-114 size) but it's too hard, so the
                                                                                                                                motor doesn't have enough torque to spin it. I need something that size but
                                                                                                                                softer..

                                                                                                                                I have the old gears out of the FA, if they fit, I may convert it to a gear
                                                                                                                                drive. The motor isn't the problem, in fact if it was bad I have several
                                                                                                                                more in the parts drawer that will probably fit.

                                                                                                                                Don

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                                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1761 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 12/15/2006
                                                                                                                                Subject: (no subject)
                                                                                                                                I wish you  all a Merry Chrstmas and Happy New Year!!!!!!
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                               Ray Sr And  Jean

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                                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1762 From: Neal Rammacher Date: 12/16/2006
                                                                                                                                Subject: power packs
                                                                                                                                For my layout in the kitchen(it's small) I am using a Tech II 1500. Should I upgrade to something newer.
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                Neal Rammacher
                                                                                                                                Brookfield,Ill.
                                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1763 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/16/2006
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: power packs
                                                                                                                                In the opinion of many, the Tech II series from MRC probably performed better than their later series.  It was certainly more user-friendly, and seems to be of better quality components.  If it still works well, I wouldn't waste my money.
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                I'm still using the old "golden throttle" rheostat packs, (although I think I'm going to build a few simple transistor throttles for the mainline, my golden dual pack doesn't like newer low-current locomotives).
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                Don
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 5:34 AM
                                                                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] power packs

                                                                                                                                For my layout in the kitchen(it's small) I am using a Tech II 1500. Should I upgrade to something newer.
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                Neal Rammacher
                                                                                                                                Brookfield,Ill.
                                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1764 From: John Barlow Date: 12/16/2006
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: power packs
                                                                                                                                Look at a Tech III. It may have interesting features of help.
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                John

                                                                                                                                Neal Rammacher <nealrammacher@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                For my layout in the kitchen(it's small) I am using a Tech II 1500. Should I upgrade to something newer.
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                Neal Rammacher
                                                                                                                                Brookfield,Ill.

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                                                                                                                                Group: vintageHO Message: 1765 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/16/2006
                                                                                                                                Subject: More out of the last eBay box
                                                                                                                                Attachments :
                                                                                                                                  Not pretty, but at least she's now riding on good wheels with Kadees, and
                                                                                                                                  doors, even if they aren't the right ones, they fit. :-) (they'll look
                                                                                                                                  better when the paint dries).

                                                                                                                                  One left to do out of the box with the Hobbyline FM, that's a Marx boxcar,
                                                                                                                                  but that one's gonna be awhile, need to find some bushings so I can get
                                                                                                                                  decent trucks on her.

                                                                                                                                  One more box hasn't got here yet, expecting it to be delivered to work on
                                                                                                                                  Monday, 3 more MDC metal's.

                                                                                                                                  I love eBay! :-)

                                                                                                                                  Don

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                                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1766 From: HERB FLAVELL Date: 12/16/2006
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Old HO Photos
                                                                                                                                  There are 5 old HO photos I posted in the groups photos section. There
                                                                                                                                  are pictures of old HO boxes with prices from the 40s and 50s. There
                                                                                                                                  is also a picture of a Hi F drive for a Globe F-7. This drive is an
                                                                                                                                  upgrade. Next week I will post the origional drive picture.
                                                                                                                                  Herb the bionic man
                                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1767 From: Wobbly913 Date: 12/16/2006
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Thanks for the pictures. I am a "fan" of the Hi F drive system,  I have a small collection of Hi F units including F7s, GP7s, and RDC cars.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Most of the F7 and GP7 models use an extension shaft connected to the motor with a rubber tube and the shaft rides in an outboard support, The rubber bands drop down from the shaft to the trucks. Changing rubber bands is reasonably simple.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  I also have several like the one in your picture with the long solid shaft coming out of the motor with no out board support. My question is how to get the rubber bands on the wheel set nearest the motor.The rubber bands I get from Athearn don't have enough stretch to come thru the frame and out over the end of the shaft while on the axle.
                                                                                                                                  Does anyone have an easy way of getting the inner rubber band in place?
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  TIA
                                                                                                                                  Wobbly913
                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                  HERB FLAVELL <herb1013@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                  There are 5 old HO photos I posted in the groups photos section. There
                                                                                                                                  are pictures of old HO boxes with prices from the 40s and 50s. There
                                                                                                                                  is also a picture of a Hi F drive for a Globe F-7. This drive is an
                                                                                                                                  upgrade. Next week I will post the origional drive picture.
                                                                                                                                  Herb the bionic man




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                                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1768 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/16/2006
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: power packs
                                                                                                                                  I've heard people who had both say they liked the Tech II better.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Don
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                  Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 8:33 AM
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] power packs

                                                                                                                                  Look at a Tech III. It may have interesting features of help.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  John

                                                                                                                                  Neal Rammacher <nealrammacher@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                  For my layout in the kitchen(it's small) I am using a Tech II 1500. Should I upgrade to something newer.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Neal Rammacher
                                                                                                                                  Brookfield,Ill.

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                                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1769 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/16/2006
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                  From: "HERB FLAVELL" <herb1013@...>
                                                                                                                                  To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                  Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 2:34 PM
                                                                                                                                  Subject: [vintageHO] Old HO Photos


                                                                                                                                  > There are 5 old HO photos I posted in the groups photos section. There
                                                                                                                                  > are pictures of old HO boxes with prices from the 40s and 50s. There
                                                                                                                                  > is also a picture of a Hi F drive for a Globe F-7. This drive is an
                                                                                                                                  > upgrade. Next week I will post the origional drive picture.
                                                                                                                                  > Herb the bionic man

                                                                                                                                  I recognize that drive, it was actually a "slow speed" drive marketed by
                                                                                                                                  PITTMAN (yes, they of Pittman motor fame) in the late 1950's.

                                                                                                                                  Don

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                                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1770 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/16/2006
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
                                                                                                                                  The RDC actually kept the rubber bands right up the end of production only a couple years ago (had the Horizon buyout not occured they might still be making it today).
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Mine came NEW from the hobby shop that way only 4 or 5 years ago.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Don
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                  From: Wobbly913
                                                                                                                                  Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 4:40 PM
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Old HO Photos

                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Thanks for the pictures. I am a "fan" of the Hi F drive system,  I have a small collection of Hi F units including F7s, GP7s, and RDC cars.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Most of the F7 and GP7 models use an extension shaft connected to the motor with a rubber tube and the shaft rides in an outboard support, The rubber bands drop down from the shaft to the trucks. Changing rubber bands is reasonably simple.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  I also have several like the one in your picture with the long solid shaft coming out of the motor with no out board support. My question is how to get the rubber bands on the wheel set nearest the motor.The rubber bands I get from Athearn don't have enough stretch to come thru the frame and out over the end of the shaft while on the axle.
                                                                                                                                  Does anyone have an easy way of getting the inner rubber band in place?
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  TIA
                                                                                                                                  Wobbly913
                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                  HERB FLAVELL <herb1013@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                  There are 5 old HO photos I posted in the groups photos section. There
                                                                                                                                  are pictures of old HO boxes with prices from the 40s and 50s. There
                                                                                                                                  is also a picture of a Hi F drive for a Globe F-7. This drive is an
                                                                                                                                  upgrade. Next week I will post the origional drive picture.
                                                                                                                                  Herb the bionic man




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                                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1771 From: Glenn Date: 12/16/2006
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: power packs
                                                                                                                                  Tech II's are real workhorses--if it has enough amperage, keep it.
                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                  Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 3:34 AM
                                                                                                                                  Subject: [vintageHO] power packs

                                                                                                                                  For my layout in the kitchen(it's small) I am using a Tech II 1500. Should I upgrade to something newer.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Neal Rammacher
                                                                                                                                  Brookfield,Ill.

                                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1772 From: Wobbly913 Date: 12/16/2006
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
                                                                                                                                  They also kept the rubber band drive on the Hustler. As a side note Athearn made a slightly different model called a Husky for Lionel. It had a gear drive.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  The later RDC's had the thin metal connector across the top of the newer style motor that ran out to the trucks in place of the wire in the early models.  I have examples of both in my RDC collection
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Wobbly913

                                                                                                                                  Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                  The RDC actually kept the rubber bands right up the end of production only a couple years ago (had the Horizon buyout not occured they might still be making it today).
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Mine came NEW from the hobby shop that way only 4 or 5 years ago.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Don
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                  From: Wobbly913
                                                                                                                                  Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 4:40 PM
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Old HO Photos

                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Thanks for the pictures. I am a "fan" of the Hi F drive system,  I have a small collection of Hi F units including F7s, GP7s, and RDC cars.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Most of the F7 and GP7 models use an extension shaft connected to the motor with a rubber tube and the shaft rides in an outboard support, The rubber bands drop down from the shaft to the trucks. Changing rubber bands is reasonably simple.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  I also have several like the one in your picture with the long solid shaft coming out of the motor with no out board support. My question is how to get the rubber bands on the wheel set nearest the motor.The rubber bands I get from Athearn don't have enough stretch to come thru the frame and out over the end of the shaft while on the axle.
                                                                                                                                  Does anyone have an easy way of getting the inner rubber band in place?
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  TIA
                                                                                                                                  Wobbly913
                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                  HERB FLAVELL <herb1013@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                  There are 5 old HO photos I posted in the groups photos section. There
                                                                                                                                  are pictures of old HO boxes with prices from the 40s and 50s. There
                                                                                                                                  is also a picture of a Hi F drive for a Globe F-7. This drive is an
                                                                                                                                  upgrade. Next week I will post the origional drive picture.
                                                                                                                                  Herb the bionic man




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                                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1773 From: Roger Aultman Date: 12/16/2006
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
                                                                                                                                  The rubber band drive is a Pittman conversion, what is a source for
                                                                                                                                  replacement bands for these locos? Roger Aultman






                                                                                                                                  HERB FLAVELL wrote:
                                                                                                                                  > There are 5 old HO photos I posted in the groups photos section. There
                                                                                                                                  > are pictures of old HO boxes with prices from the 40s and 50s. There
                                                                                                                                  > is also a picture of a Hi F drive for a Globe F-7. This drive is an
                                                                                                                                  > upgrade. Next week I will post the origional drive picture.
                                                                                                                                  > Herb the bionic man
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >


                                                                                                                                  --
                                                                                                                                  http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

                                                                                                                                  Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1774 From: Wobbly913 Date: 12/16/2006
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
                                                                                                                                  Assuming they take the same as Athearn it is an ATH90101. If your LHS doesn't have it you can get it direcrly from horizonhobby.com . They sell at $3.60 for 24 belts. Don't get burned by those on Ebay who gouge twice that much for fewer belts.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Wobbly913

                                                                                                                                  Roger Aultman <raul@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                  The rubber band drive is a Pittman conversion, what is a source for
                                                                                                                                  replacement bands for these locos? Roger Aultman






                                                                                                                                  HERB FLAVELL wrote:
                                                                                                                                  > There are 5 old HO photos I posted in the groups photos section. There
                                                                                                                                  > are pictures of old HO boxes with prices from the 40s and 50s. There
                                                                                                                                  > is also a picture of a Hi F drive for a Globe F-7. This drive is an
                                                                                                                                  > upgrade. Next week I will post the origional drive picture.
                                                                                                                                  > Herb the bionic man
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >


                                                                                                                                  --
                                                                                                                                  http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

                                                                                                                                  Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/






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                                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1775 From: Glenn Date: 12/16/2006
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
                                                                                                                                  With the arrival of the P1K RDC's at full scale length, I think Athearn might have discontinued the shorties anyway.
                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                  Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 3:23 PM
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Old HO Photos

                                                                                                                                  The RDC actually kept the rubber bands right up the end of production only a couple years ago (had the Horizon buyout not occured they might still be making it today).
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Mine came NEW from the hobby shop that way only 4 or 5 years ago.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Don
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                  From: Wobbly913
                                                                                                                                  Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 4:40 PM
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Old HO Photos

                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Thanks for the pictures. I am a "fan" of the Hi F drive system,  I have a small collection of Hi F units including F7s, GP7s, and RDC cars.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Most of the F7 and GP7 models use an extension shaft connected to the motor with a rubber tube and the shaft rides in an outboard support, The rubber bands drop down from the shaft to the trucks. Changing rubber bands is reasonably simple.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  I also have several like the one in your picture with the long solid shaft coming out of the motor with no out board support. My question is how to get the rubber bands on the wheel set nearest the motor.The rubber bands I get from Athearn don't have enough stretch to come thru the frame and out over the end of the shaft while on the axle.
                                                                                                                                  Does anyone have an easy way of getting the inner rubber band in place?
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  TIA
                                                                                                                                  Wobbly913
                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                  HERB FLAVELL <herb1013@epix. net> wrote:
                                                                                                                                  There are 5 old HO photos I posted in the groups photos section. There
                                                                                                                                  are pictures of old HO boxes with prices from the 40s and 50s. There
                                                                                                                                  is also a picture of a Hi F drive for a Globe F-7. This drive is an
                                                                                                                                  upgrade. Next week I will post the origional drive picture.
                                                                                                                                  Herb the bionic man




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                                                                                                                                  <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1776 From: michael rapp, sr Date: 12/16/2006
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
                                                                                                                                  Hi all,
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                     Herb's photo of the Hi-F reminded me that I have a few of them I'd like to put back together. The trucks have a hole in them that mount on a nipple that protrudes from the frame. The truck is held on by a small rubber stopper. Like the one in a lab mouse water bottle. Where can I find these? Thanks.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Mike Rapp

                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message ----
                                                                                                                                  From: HERB FLAVELL <herb1013@...>
                                                                                                                                  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                  Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 3:34:38 PM
                                                                                                                                  Subject: [vintageHO] Old HO Photos

                                                                                                                                  There are 5 old HO photos I posted in the groups photos section. There
                                                                                                                                  are pictures of old HO boxes with prices from the 40s and 50s. There
                                                                                                                                  is also a picture of a Hi F drive for a Globe F-7. This drive is an
                                                                                                                                  upgrade. Next week I will post the origional drive picture.
                                                                                                                                  Herb the bionic man



                                                                                                                                  __________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1777 From: John Barlow Date: 12/16/2006
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
                                                                                                                                  Dear Mike,
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Are you the one seeking belt drives? If so, Athearn still sells them all these years later. Please note the item copied below my name.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Athearn Home
                                                                                                                                  Home About Athearn Store Locator Contact Us
                                                                                                                                  HO Scale N Scale 1:50 Scale Parts
                                                                                                                                  New Products Custom Products

                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  View larger image


                                                                                                                                  HO Drive Belt (Rubber Band) (24)

                                                                                                                                  HO Drive Belt (Rubber Band) (24)
                                                                                                                                  [ATH90101]
                                                                                                                                  Retail Price: $3.60


                                                                                                                                  Genesis N Scale HO Scale 1:50 Scale HO Scale
                                                                                                                                  Copyright © 2005-2006 Athearn Trains, a division of Horizon Hobby, Inc. All rights reserved. Contact Us.


                                                                                                                                  "michael rapp, sr" <bionicworm1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                  Hi all,
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                     Herb's photo of the Hi-F reminded me that I have a few of them I'd like to put back together. The trucks have a hole in them that mount on a nipple that protrudes from the frame. The truck is held on by a small rubber stopper. Like the one in a lab mouse water bottle. Where can I find these? Thanks.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Mike Rapp

                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message ----
                                                                                                                                  From: HERB FLAVELL <herb1013@epix. net>
                                                                                                                                  To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                                                                                  Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 3:34:38 PM
                                                                                                                                  Subject: [vintageHO] Old HO Photos

                                                                                                                                  There are 5 old HO photos I posted in the groups photos section. There
                                                                                                                                  are pictures of old HO boxes with prices from the 40s and 50s. There
                                                                                                                                  is also a picture of a Hi F drive for a Globe F-7. This drive is an
                                                                                                                                  upgrade. Next week I will post the origional drive picture.
                                                                                                                                  Herb the bionic man



                                                                                                                                  ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                                                                                                                                  Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                  Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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                                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1778 From: John Barlow Date: 12/16/2006
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
                                                                                                                                  Dear Mike,
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Are you the one seeking belt drives? If so, Athearn still sells them all these years later. Please note the item copied below my name.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Athearn Home
                                                                                                                                  Home About Athearn Store Locator Contact Us
                                                                                                                                  HO Scale N Scale 1:50 Scale Parts
                                                                                                                                  New Products Custom Products

                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  View larger image


                                                                                                                                  HO Drive Belt (Rubber Band) (24)

                                                                                                                                  HO Drive Belt (Rubber Band) (24)
                                                                                                                                  [ATH90101]
                                                                                                                                  Retail Price: $3.60


                                                                                                                                  Genesis N Scale HO Scale 1:50 Scale HO Scale
                                                                                                                                  Copyright © 2005-2006 Athearn Trains, a division of Horizon Hobby, Inc. All rights reserved. Contact Us.


                                                                                                                                  "michael rapp, sr" <bionicworm1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                  Hi all,
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                     Herb's photo of the Hi-F reminded me that I have a few of them I'd like to put back together. The trucks have a hole in them that mount on a nipple that protrudes from the frame. The truck is held on by a small rubber stopper. Like the one in a lab mouse water bottle. Where can I find these? Thanks.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Mike Rapp

                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message ----
                                                                                                                                  From: HERB FLAVELL <herb1013@epix. net>
                                                                                                                                  To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                                                                                  Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 3:34:38 PM
                                                                                                                                  Subject: [vintageHO] Old HO Photos

                                                                                                                                  There are 5 old HO photos I posted in the groups photos section. There
                                                                                                                                  are pictures of old HO boxes with prices from the 40s and 50s. There
                                                                                                                                  is also a picture of a Hi F drive for a Globe F-7. This drive is an
                                                                                                                                  upgrade. Next week I will post the origional drive picture.
                                                                                                                                  Herb the bionic man



                                                                                                                                  ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                                                                                                                                  Do You Yahoo!?
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                                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1779 From: michael rapp, sr Date: 12/17/2006
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
                                                                                                                                  Thanks John,
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                        The belts don't seem to be too hard to get. But the trucks on most of my units are just hanging. I do have one that has these "stoppers" holding the trucks on. And They are in pretty bad shape. I have one or two that were drilled and screws with washers were put in to replace the stoppers. To tell you the truth I would like to get the stoppers for the ones that are missing them. If I have to do any modification I'll just gut them and put mini cameras in and run powered B units. If I need to I could take pics of their set up and post them. Thanks for the link.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Mike Rapp


                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message ----
                                                                                                                                  From: John Barlow <jdenver4150@...>
                                                                                                                                  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                  Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 2:56:04 AM
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Old HO Photos

                                                                                                                                  Dear Mike,
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Are you the one seeking belt drives? If so, Athearn still sells them all these years later. Please note the item copied below my name.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Athearn Home
                                                                                                                                  Home Store Locator Contact Us
                                                                                                                                  HO Scale N Scale 1:50 Scale Parts
                                                                                                                                  New Products Custom Products

                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  View larger image


                                                                                                                                  HO Drive Belt (Rubber Band) (24)

                                                                                                                                  HO Drive Belt (Rubber Band) (24)
                                                                                                                                  [ATH90101]
                                                                                                                                  Retail Price: $3.60


                                                                                                                                  Genesis N Scale HO Scale 1:50 Scale HO Scale
                                                                                                                                  Copyright © 2005-2006 Athearn Trains, a division of Horizon Hobby, Inc. All rights reserved. Contact Us.


                                                                                                                                  "michael rapp, sr" <bionicworm1@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                                                                                                                                  Hi all,
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                     Herb's photo of the Hi-F reminded me that I have a few of them I'd like to put back together. The trucks have a hole in them that mount on a nipple that protrudes from the frame. The truck is held on by a small rubber stopper. Like the one in a lab mouse water bottle. Where can I find these? Thanks.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Mike Rapp

                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message ----
                                                                                                                                  From: HERB FLAVELL <herb1013@epix. net>
                                                                                                                                  To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                                                                                  Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 3:34:38 PM
                                                                                                                                  Subject: [vintageHO] Old HO Photos

                                                                                                                                  There are 5 old HO photos I posted in the groups photos section. There
                                                                                                                                  are pictures of old HO boxes with prices from the 40s and 50s. There
                                                                                                                                  is also a picture of a Hi F drive for a Globe F-7. This drive is an
                                                                                                                                  upgrade. Next week I will post the origional drive picture.
                                                                                                                                  Herb the bionic man



                                                                                                                                  ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
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                                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1780 From: Wobbly913 Date: 12/17/2006
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
                                                                                                                                  The drive belts are usually tight enough to hold the trucks up in place. The few I have that still have the "stoppers" are mostly dummys.  The stoppers I have appear to be just short pieces of the appropriate size rubber tubing, it is just cut very short. A piece of the appropriate tubing should be available at a hardware store.
                                                                                                                                  The later models, especially the RDC's have the screw and washer arrangement to hold the trucks on. That is handy since they don't deteriorate.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Wobbly913

                                                                                                                                  "michael rapp, sr" <bionicworm1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                  Thanks John,
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                        The belts don't seem to be too hard to get. But the trucks on most of my units are just hanging. I do have one that has these "stoppers" holding the trucks on. And They are in pretty bad shape. I have one or two that were drilled and screws with washers were put in to replace the stoppers. To tell you the truth I would like to get the stoppers for the ones that are missing them. If I have to do any modification I'll just gut them and put mini cameras in and run powered B units. If I need to I could take pics of their set up and post them. Thanks for the link.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Mike Rapp


                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                  __________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1781 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/17/2006
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
                                                                                                                                  On the dummy units all it was was a short cut off piece of appropriately sized ruber tubing.  Check a good hardware store for rubber tube, take a frame along to check fit.
                                                                                                                                  The powered uints didn't use them, they depended on the rubber bands to hold the trucks on.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Don
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                  Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 2:31 AM
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Old HO Photos

                                                                                                                                  Thanks John,
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                        The belts don't seem to be too hard to get. But the trucks on most of my units are just hanging. I do have one that has these "stoppers" holding the trucks on. And They are in pretty bad shape. I have one or two that were drilled and screws with washers were put in to replace the stoppers. To tell you the truth I would like to get the stoppers for the ones that are missing them. If I have to do any modification I'll just gut them and put mini cameras in and run powered B units. If I need to I could take pics of their set up and post them. Thanks for the link.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Mike Rapp


                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message ----
                                                                                                                                  From: John Barlow <jdenver4150@...>
                                                                                                                                  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                  Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 2:56:04 AM
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Old HO Photos

                                                                                                                                  Dear Mike,
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Are you the one seeking belt drives? If so, Athearn still sells them all these years later. Please note the item copied below my name.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Athearn Home
                                                                                                                                  Home Store Locator Contact Us
                                                                                                                                  HO Scale N Scale 1:50 Scale Parts
                                                                                                                                  New Products Custom Products

                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  View larger image


                                                                                                                                  HO Drive Belt (Rubber Band) (24)

                                                                                                                                  HO Drive Belt (Rubber Band) (24)
                                                                                                                                  [ATH90101]
                                                                                                                                  Retail Price: $3.60


                                                                                                                                  Genesis N Scale HO Scale 1:50 Scale HO Scale
                                                                                                                                  Copyright © 2005-2006 Athearn Trains, a division of Horizon Hobby, Inc. All rights reserved. Contact Us.


                                                                                                                                  "michael rapp, sr" <bionicworm1@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                                                                                                                                  Hi all,
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                     Herb's photo of the Hi-F reminded me that I have a few of them I'd like to put back together. The trucks have a hole in them that mount on a nipple that protrudes from the frame. The truck is held on by a small rubber stopper. Like the one in a lab mouse water bottle. Where can I find these? Thanks.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Mike Rapp

                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message ----
                                                                                                                                  From: HERB FLAVELL <herb1013@epix. net>
                                                                                                                                  To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                                                                                  Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 3:34:38 PM
                                                                                                                                  Subject: [vintageHO] Old HO Photos

                                                                                                                                  There are 5 old HO photos I posted in the groups photos section. There
                                                                                                                                  are pictures of old HO boxes with prices from the 40s and 50s. There
                                                                                                                                  is also a picture of a Hi F drive for a Globe F-7. This drive is an
                                                                                                                                  upgrade. Next week I will post the origional drive picture.
                                                                                                                                  Herb the bionic man



                                                                                                                                  ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                                                                                                                                  Do You Yahoo!?
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                                                                                                                                  __________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1782 From: John Barlow Date: 12/17/2006
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
                                                                                                                                  A photo helps. If you are talking Athearn, I have no idea what else they may have from the good old days. If they don't have them, I would try the following place on the website: www.yardbirdtrains.com. They do a lot with restorations of vintage stuff, and i mean HO.
                                                                                                                                  I'd check them out.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  John Barlow (jdenver4150@...

                                                                                                                                  "michael rapp, sr" <bionicworm1@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                  Thanks John,
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                        The belts don't seem to be too hard to get. But the trucks on most of my units are just hanging. I do have one that has these "stoppers" holding the trucks on. And They are in pretty bad shape. I have one or two that were drilled and screws with washers were put in to replace the stoppers. To tell you the truth I would like to get the stoppers for the ones that are missing them. If I have to do any modification I'll just gut them and put mini cameras in and run powered B units. If I need to I could take pics of their set up and post them. Thanks for the link.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Mike Rapp


                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message ----
                                                                                                                                  From: John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com>
                                                                                                                                  To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                                                                                  Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 2:56:04 AM
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Old HO Photos

                                                                                                                                  Dear Mike,
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Are you the one seeking belt drives? If so, Athearn still sells them all these years later. Please note the item copied below my name.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Athearn Home
                                                                                                                                  Home Store Locator Contact Us
                                                                                                                                  HO Scale N Scale 1:50 Scale Parts
                                                                                                                                  New Products Custom Products

                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  View larger image


                                                                                                                                  HO Drive Belt (Rubber Band) (24)

                                                                                                                                  HO Drive Belt (Rubber Band) (24)
                                                                                                                                  [ATH90101]
                                                                                                                                  Retail Price: $3.60


                                                                                                                                  Genesis N Scale HO Scale 1:50 Scale HO Scale
                                                                                                                                  Copyright © 2005-2006 Athearn Trains, a division of Horizon Hobby, Inc. All rights reserved. Contact Us.


                                                                                                                                  "michael rapp, sr" <bionicworm1@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                                                                                                                                  Hi all,
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                     Herb's photo of the Hi-F reminded me that I have a few of them I'd like to put back together. The trucks have a hole in them that mount on a nipple that protrudes from the frame. The truck is held on by a small rubber stopper. Like the one in a lab mouse water bottle. Where can I find these? Thanks.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Mike Rapp

                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message ----
                                                                                                                                  From: HERB FLAVELL <herb1013@epix. net>
                                                                                                                                  To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                                                                                  Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 3:34:38 PM
                                                                                                                                  Subject: [vintageHO] Old HO Photos

                                                                                                                                  There are 5 old HO photos I posted in the groups photos section. There
                                                                                                                                  are pictures of old HO boxes with prices from the 40s and 50s. There
                                                                                                                                  is also a picture of a Hi F drive for a Globe F-7. This drive is an
                                                                                                                                  upgrade. Next week I will post the origional drive picture.
                                                                                                                                  Herb the bionic man



                                                                                                                                  ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                                                                                                                                  Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                  Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                                                                                                  http://mail. yahoo.com

                                                                                                                                  ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                                                                                                                                  Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                  Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                                                                                                  http://mail. yahoo.com


                                                                                                                                  ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                                                                                                                                  Do You Yahoo!?
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                                                                                                                                  __________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1783 From: oljoeoh Date: 12/17/2006
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
                                                                                                                                  The bands used with the Pittman conversion are the Athearn
                                                                                                                                  rubberbands. They are trouble to install because of the
                                                                                                                                  really long shafts on the conversion. I find it is easier
                                                                                                                                  to put the bands on the shafts first, disassemble the
                                                                                                                                  trucks in the unit, put the bands on the truck drum,
                                                                                                                                  then reassemble things again.

                                                                                                                                  The Pittman conversion does an excellent job of reducing
                                                                                                                                  top speed. The bands used do tend to visibly distort
                                                                                                                                  under load leading to more band failure.

                                                                                                                                  I don't think the Hi-F drives were in the Globe
                                                                                                                                  offerings. I think Hi-F appeared when the Athearn
                                                                                                                                  brand appeared. The Athearn stuff was really
                                                                                                                                  inexpensive compared to offerings from Mantua and
                                                                                                                                  Varney.

                                                                                                                                  Also for those who mentioned
                                                                                                                                  it - use model airplane fuel line to hold the truck onto
                                                                                                                                  the truck nubs. But keep in mind that using the proper
                                                                                                                                  rubberbands will usually hold the trucks on without
                                                                                                                                  the need for the use anything else. Joe O'Loughlin

                                                                                                                                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Roger Aultman <raul@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > The rubber band drive is a Pittman conversion, what is a source for
                                                                                                                                  > replacement bands for these locos? Roger Aultman
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > HERB FLAVELL wrote:
                                                                                                                                  > > There are 5 old HO photos I posted in the groups photos section. There
                                                                                                                                  > > are pictures of old HO boxes with prices from the 40s and 50s. There
                                                                                                                                  > > is also a picture of a Hi F drive for a Globe F-7. This drive is an
                                                                                                                                  > > upgrade. Next week I will post the origional drive picture.
                                                                                                                                  > > Herb the bionic man
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > --
                                                                                                                                  > http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                                                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1784 From: oljoeoh Date: 12/17/2006
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Cary/Bowser boxcab conversion for Athearn Hustler
                                                                                                                                  I have several of these. I am really having problems
                                                                                                                                  trying to get Kaydee couplers installed. The boxcab
                                                                                                                                  mounting puts a screw through the coupler opening
                                                                                                                                  and makes it very difficult to get things lined up
                                                                                                                                  properly. After much bad language and no patience
                                                                                                                                  I did get things closed up but the coupler sags
                                                                                                                                  enough to touch the ties if not pulling something.
                                                                                                                                  Not sure about the correct Kaydee to use but it does
                                                                                                                                  sit in there properly. What the coupler doesn't have
                                                                                                                                  is something like the NMRA coupler spring to help
                                                                                                                                  hold it in place. Any suggestions? Joe O'Loughlin
                                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1785 From: Phillip VanderHeyden Date: 12/17/2006
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Cary/Bowser boxcab conversion for Athearn Hustler
                                                                                                                                  Kadee's #148 coupler is self centering, much like a bachmann EZ-mate but
                                                                                                                                  made of metal. See - http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page397.htm

                                                                                                                                  the whole list is here - http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/coupler.htm

                                                                                                                                  phil


                                                                                                                                  oljoeoh wrote:
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > I have several of these. I am really having problems
                                                                                                                                  > trying to get Kaydee couplers installed. The boxcab
                                                                                                                                  > mounting puts a screw through the coupler opening
                                                                                                                                  > and makes it very difficult to get things lined up
                                                                                                                                  > properly. After much bad language and no patience
                                                                                                                                  > I did get things closed up but the coupler sags
                                                                                                                                  > enough to touch the ties if not pulling something.
                                                                                                                                  > Not sure about the correct Kaydee to use but it does
                                                                                                                                  > sit in there properly. What the coupler doesn't have
                                                                                                                                  > is something like the NMRA coupler spring to help
                                                                                                                                  > hold it in place. Any suggestions? Joe O'Loughlin
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1786 From: herb1013 Date: 12/17/2006
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
                                                                                                                                  >>>>>The truck is held on by a small rubber stopper. Like the one in a lab mouse water bottle. Where can I find these? Thanks.<<<<<<
                                                                                                                                  Hi. You can also use fish tank air hose. Cut to about 3/16 inch. The hose is inexpensive and found at most pet shops. Just be sure its the right inside diameter.
                                                                                                                                                          Herb the bionic man
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1787 From: herb1013 Date: 12/17/2006
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Athearn
                                                                                                                                  Here is the Athearn parts page. The part number for the Hi F belts is 90101.
                                                                                                                                  24 belts for $3.60
                                                                                                                                  Herb the bionic man
                                                                                                                                  http://www.athearn.com/Products/Parts/Default.aspx
                                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1788 From: herb1013 Date: 12/17/2006
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
                                                                                                                                  I just put another photo in the photo web page. It shows where most of my Hi F drives ended up. More photos later. I just realized I have a power pack that was the first to use a reastadt to slow train speed to a crawl. If my memory is any good it was $19.95. I bought it when I was making $1.75 an hour making cutting dies to cut out plastic eye glass frames and label dies for food and beer bottles. My Scotch lass wife almost killed me for spending that much on a power pack. (picture later) That job gave me an endless supply of tiny screws (2/56 2/58) and the taps and dies for them.
                                                                                                                                                 Herb the bionic man
                                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1789 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/17/2006
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Test, please disregard
                                                                                                                                  Sorry about this but I may have a little problem, just checking to make
                                                                                                                                  sure.

                                                                                                                                  Don

                                                                                                                                  don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                                                  http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                                                  Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                                  Co-moderator
                                                                                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1790 From: herb1013 Date: 12/17/2006
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Test, please disregard
                                                                                                                                  Hi there are 8 more photos on the photo album. A GP9 with HiF drive and a Husler with a smaller HiF drive that still works but needs brushes. The old power pack pictures are there to.
                                                                                                                                                     Herb the bionic man
                                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1791 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 12/17/2006
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
                                                                                                                                  Herb,

                                                                                                                                  At what point did Athearn go from the Metal Hustler body to the Plastic Body
                                                                                                                                  on the Hi F drive? Any idea of what a plastic Hustler with shot rubber
                                                                                                                                  bands might
                                                                                                                                  be worth these days? Thank you

                                                                                                                                  Loren

                                                                                                                                  _________________________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                  age, and price. Try it!
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                                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1792 From: herb1013 Date: 12/17/2006
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
                                                                                                                                  >>>At what point did Athearn go from the Metal Hustler <<<<<
                                                                                                                                  Hi not sure when they went metal. I bought a red one and a yellow one in plastic after my stint in the USMC & US Army from 53 to 58 so I guess they were bought in either 58 or 59. I know I had them in our first house because I had a 16ft by 4 ft layout in the basement. I gave the yellow Husler and a bunch of other rolling stock to my brother to start him in the hobby. He promptly lost interest and SOLD it all.What can you expect from a kid brother. I'm not sure what they would be worth today.
                                                                                                                                                              Herb the bionic man
                                                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1793 From: Mike Bauers Date: 12/17/2006
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
                                                                                                                                  I'd take one of those trucks to my local full-service hardware store and get a few rubber O-rings to snugly lock onto those posts. I write a few because I like to have spares on hand.

                                                                                                                                  Best to ya'
                                                                                                                                  Mike Bauers
                                                                                                                                  Milwaukee Wi, USA


                                                                                                                                  On Dec 17, 2006, at 1:37 AM, michael rapp, sr wrote:

                                                                                                                                  Hi all,
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                     Herb's photo of the Hi-F reminded me that I have a few of them I'd like to put back together. The trucks have a hole in them that mount on a nipple that protrudes from the frame. The truck is held on by a small rubber stopper. Like the one in a lab mouse water bottle. Where can I find these? Thanks.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Mike Rapp

                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message ----
                                                                                                                                  From: HERB FLAVELL 

                                                                                                                                  There are 5 old HO photos I posted in the groups photos section. There
                                                                                                                                  are pictures of old HO boxes with prices from the 40s and 50s. There
                                                                                                                                  is also a picture of a Hi F drive for a Globe F-7. 

                                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1794 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/17/2006
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Hi-Fi (was Test, please disregard)
                                                                                                                                  Now THAT is a vintage power pack!
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Don
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                  From: herb1013
                                                                                                                                  Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 11:41 AM
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Test, please disregard

                                                                                                                                  Hi there are 8 more photos on the photo album. A GP9 with HiF drive and a Husler with a smaller HiF drive that still works but needs brushes. The old power pack pictures are there to.
                                                                                                                                                     Herb the bionic man

                                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1795 From: Mike Bauers Date: 12/17/2006
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
                                                                                                                                  Would it be the older Hustler with no axle bearings, all metal motor,
                                                                                                                                  and needlepoint axles........ or the newer one with square-end axles,
                                                                                                                                  plastic and metal motor, and side-frame bearings???

                                                                                                                                  Did Athearn ever have a metal Hustler body?? I only know of the
                                                                                                                                  Athearn Hustler having an easily shorted cast metal chassis.

                                                                                                                                  Best to ya'
                                                                                                                                  Mike Bauers
                                                                                                                                  Milwaukee Wi, USA


                                                                                                                                  On Dec 17, 2006, at 2:05 PM, Salt&Pepper Whoknows wrote:

                                                                                                                                  > Herb,
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > At what point did Athearn go from the Metal Hustler body to the
                                                                                                                                  > Plastic Body
                                                                                                                                  > on the Hi F drive? Any idea of what a plastic Hustler with shot
                                                                                                                                  > rubber
                                                                                                                                  > bands might
                                                                                                                                  > be worth these days? Thank you
                                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1796 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/17/2006
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                  From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@...>
                                                                                                                                  To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                  Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 2:05 PM
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Old HO Photos


                                                                                                                                  > Herb,
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > At what point did Athearn go from the Metal Hustler body to the Plastic
                                                                                                                                  > Body
                                                                                                                                  > on the Hi F drive? Any idea of what a plastic Hustler with shot rubber
                                                                                                                                  > bands might
                                                                                                                                  > be worth these days? Thank you
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Loren

                                                                                                                                  I don't know that Athearn ever HAD a metal Hustler.

                                                                                                                                  Gem sold a BRASS model ca. 1960 or so that sure looked exactly like a
                                                                                                                                  Hustler!

                                                                                                                                  The other metal body that was mentioned here a couple posts ago was an
                                                                                                                                  "aftermarket" white metal box cab body that was offered by Cary. I think
                                                                                                                                  Bowser may still make it.

                                                                                                                                  As far as price, two Hustlers in working order went on eBay last week for $
                                                                                                                                  15.25 the pair (my maximum bud was $15.00 and I wasn't on line when the
                                                                                                                                  auction ended)

                                                                                                                                  Don

                                                                                                                                  don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                                                  http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                                                  Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                                  Co-moderator
                                                                                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1797 From: Roger Aultman Date: 12/17/2006
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
                                                                                                                                  Perhaps that was a Hustler chasis with a Cary box cab body.
                                                                                                                                  Roger Aultman





                                                                                                                                  Salt&Pepper Whoknows wrote:
                                                                                                                                  > Herb,
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > At what point did Athearn go from the Metal Hustler body to the Plastic Body
                                                                                                                                  > on the Hi F drive? Any idea of what a plastic Hustler with shot rubber
                                                                                                                                  > bands might
                                                                                                                                  > be worth these days? Thank you
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Loren
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > _________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                  > MSN Shopping has everything on your holiday list. Get expert picks by style,
                                                                                                                                  > age, and price. Try it!
                                                                                                                                  > http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId=8000,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata=200601&tcode=wlmtagline
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >


                                                                                                                                  --
                                                                                                                                  http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

                                                                                                                                  Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1798 From: ourbaja Date: 12/17/2006
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: More goodies
                                                                                                                                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
                                                                                                                                  wrote:
                                                                                                                                  > The other goodie I really wanted....
                                                                                                                                  > Everybody has the Athearn blue B&M box car, but not as many people
                                                                                                                                  have the
                                                                                                                                  > BLACK one!
                                                                                                                                  >


                                                                                                                                  I picked up 2 of these black B & M boxcars complete with sprung
                                                                                                                                  trucks, very old underframe with the screw on coupler box, Athearn
                                                                                                                                  make, not a replacement for $2.00 each at swap meets.

                                                                                                                                  Art in Michigan
                                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1799 From: Glenn Date: 12/17/2006
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
                                                                                                                                  As I remember them, that was just a piece of rubber tube--from an auto supply.
                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                  Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 11:37 PM
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Old HO Photos

                                                                                                                                  Hi all,
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                     Herb's photo of the Hi-F reminded me that I have a few of them I'd like to put back together. The trucks have a hole in them that mount on a nipple that protrudes from the frame. The truck is held on by a small rubber stopper. Like the one in a lab mouse water bottle. Where can I find these? Thanks.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Mike Rapp

                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message ----
                                                                                                                                  From: HERB FLAVELL <herb1013@epix. net>
                                                                                                                                  To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                                                                                  Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 3:34:38 PM
                                                                                                                                  Subject: [vintageHO] Old HO Photos

                                                                                                                                  There are 5 old HO photos I posted in the groups photos section. There
                                                                                                                                  are pictures of old HO boxes with prices from the 40s and 50s. There
                                                                                                                                  is also a picture of a Hi F drive for a Globe F-7. This drive is an
                                                                                                                                  upgrade. Next week I will post the origional drive picture.
                                                                                                                                  Herb the bionic man



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                                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1800 From: Glenn Date: 12/17/2006
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
                                                                                                                                  Athearn had a really good drive before the Hi-F drive--it may have started as Globe--it was all die cast, the truck rear towers and gearboxes had oilite bearings, the plastic sideframes pressed onto bolster ends. Motor was mostly enclosed--I used to refer to it as the "$7.50 Motor" since that was the price on the parts list, when most motors were $5. They would really pull.  I had one in a Varney zamak shell--real power.
                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                  From: oljoeoh
                                                                                                                                  Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 5:15 AM
                                                                                                                                  Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Old HO Photos

                                                                                                                                  The bands used with the Pittman conversion are the Athearn
                                                                                                                                  rubberbands. They are trouble to install because of the
                                                                                                                                  really long shafts on the conversion. I find it is easier
                                                                                                                                  to put the bands on the shafts first, disassemble the
                                                                                                                                  trucks in the unit, put the bands on the truck drum,
                                                                                                                                  then reassemble things again.

                                                                                                                                  The Pittman conversion does an excellent job of reducing
                                                                                                                                  top speed. The bands used do tend to visibly distort
                                                                                                                                  under load leading to more band failure.

                                                                                                                                  I don't think the Hi-F drives were in the Globe
                                                                                                                                  offerings. I think Hi-F appeared when the Athearn
                                                                                                                                  brand appeared. The Athearn stuff was really
                                                                                                                                  inexpensive compared to offerings from Mantua and
                                                                                                                                  Varney.

                                                                                                                                  Also for those who mentioned
                                                                                                                                  it - use model airplane fuel line to hold the truck onto
                                                                                                                                  the truck nubs. But keep in mind that using the proper
                                                                                                                                  rubberbands will usually hold the trucks on without
                                                                                                                                  the need for the use anything else. Joe O'Loughlin

                                                                                                                                  --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, Roger Aultman <raul@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > The rubber band drive is a Pittman conversion, what is a source for
                                                                                                                                  > replacement bands for these locos? Roger Aultman
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > HERB FLAVELL wrote:
                                                                                                                                  > > There are 5 old HO photos I posted in the groups photos section. There
                                                                                                                                  > > are pictures of old HO boxes with prices from the 40s and 50s. There
                                                                                                                                  > > is also a picture of a Hi F drive for a Globe F-7. This drive is an
                                                                                                                                  > > upgrade. Next week I will post the origional drive picture.
                                                                                                                                  > > Herb the bionic man
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > --
                                                                                                                                  > http://www.nconnect .net/~raul/ AA1.htm
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                                                                                  > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/JohnEnglis h-Hobbyline/
                                                                                                                                  >

                                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1801 From: Glenn Date: 12/17/2006
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
                                                                                                                                  I don't think that the Athearn body for the Hustler was ever anything but plastic.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  On the subject of Hustlers, back in the 1980's the guys in the Pacific Northwest Region NMRA got into some strange games.  First they adapted the Cub Scouts' "Pinewood Derby" using HO boxcars on long lengths of flextrack.  Then they got into Hustler Races.  They had "Stock" and "Modified" classes--Stock all you could do was a general tune-up. Modified--anything goes.  I tried to suggest that they feature the event at the "87 National in Eugene, but apparentyl they couldn't get Athearn to do a run of the needed locos.
                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                  Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 12:05 PM
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Old HO Photos

                                                                                                                                  Herb,

                                                                                                                                  At what point did Athearn go from the Metal Hustler body to the Plastic Body
                                                                                                                                  on the Hi F drive? Any idea of what a plastic Hustler with shot rubber
                                                                                                                                  bands might
                                                                                                                                  be worth these days? Thank you

                                                                                                                                  Loren

                                                                                                                                  ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                                                                                                                  MSN Shopping has everything on your holiday list. Get expert picks by style,
                                                                                                                                  age, and price. Try it!
                                                                                                                                  http://shopping. msn.com/content/ shp/?ctId= 8000,ptnrid= 176,ptnrdata= 200601&tcode= wlmtagline

                                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1802 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 12/17/2006
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
                                                                                                                                  I have a hustler with the Cary box cab on it.  It is really rather good looking and quite believable looking.  I guess now I'm going to have to post a photo of it.  (One more little project to do).  Also have one of the GEM industrial diesels.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Chuck Kinzer
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                  Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 3:51 PM
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Old HO Photos


                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                  From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@ hotmail.com>
                                                                                                                                  To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com>
                                                                                                                                  Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 2:05 PM
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Old HO Photos

                                                                                                                                  > Herb,
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > At what point did Athearn go from the Metal Hustler body to the Plastic
                                                                                                                                  > Body
                                                                                                                                  > on the Hi F drive? Any idea of what a plastic Hustler with shot rubber
                                                                                                                                  > bands might
                                                                                                                                  > be worth these days? Thank you
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Loren

                                                                                                                                  I don't know that Athearn ever HAD a metal Hustler.

                                                                                                                                  Gem sold a BRASS model ca. 1960 or so that sure looked exactly like a
                                                                                                                                  Hustler!

                                                                                                                                  The other metal body that was mentioned here a couple posts ago was an
                                                                                                                                  "aftermarket" white metal box cab body that was offered by Cary. I think
                                                                                                                                  Bowser may still make it.

                                                                                                                                  As far as price, two Hustlers in working order went on eBay last week for $
                                                                                                                                  15.25 the pair (my maximum bud was $15.00 and I wasn't on line when the
                                                                                                                                  auction ended)

                                                                                                                                  Don

                                                                                                                                  don.dellmann@ prodigy.net
                                                                                                                                  http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                                                                                                                  Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                                  http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                                                                                                                  http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                                  Co-moderator
                                                                                                                                  http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY

                                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1803 From: Wobbly913 Date: 12/17/2006
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
                                                                                                                                  All
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Bowser still sells the Boxcab for the Hustler frame.  It is item 13-1 and sells for $29.95 from Bowser.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  There is a Carry boxcab with hustler frame for sale on ebay right now, it is at $18.50 current bid.  It will come up on a search  for Athearn Hustler.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Wobbly913
                                                                                                                                  "Charles E. Kinzer" <ckinzer@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                  I have a hustler with the Cary box cab on it.  It is really rather good looking and quite believable looking.  I guess now I'm going to have to post a photo of it.  (One more little project to do).  Also have one of the GEM industrial diesels.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Chuck Kinzer
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                  Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 3:51 PM
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Old HO Photos


                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                  From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@ hotmail.com>
                                                                                                                                  To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com>
                                                                                                                                  Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 2:05 PM
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Old HO Photos

                                                                                                                                  > Herb,
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > At what point did Athearn go from the Metal Hustler body to the Plastic
                                                                                                                                  > Body
                                                                                                                                  > on the Hi F drive? Any idea of what a plastic Hustler with shot rubber
                                                                                                                                  > bands might
                                                                                                                                  > be worth these days? Thank you
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Loren

                                                                                                                                  I don't know that Athearn ever HAD a metal Hustler.

                                                                                                                                  Gem sold a BRASS model ca. 1960 or so that sure looked exactly like a
                                                                                                                                  Hustler!

                                                                                                                                  The other metal body that was mentioned here a couple posts ago was an
                                                                                                                                  "aftermarket" white metal box cab body that was offered by Cary. I think
                                                                                                                                  Bowser may still make it.

                                                                                                                                  As far as price, two Hustlers in working order went on eBay last week for $
                                                                                                                                  15.25 the pair (my maximum bud was $15.00 and I wasn't on line when the
                                                                                                                                  auction ended)

                                                                                                                                  Don

                                                                                                                                  don.dellmann@ prodigy.net
                                                                                                                                  http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                                                                                                                  Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                                  http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                                                                                                                  http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                                  Co-moderator
                                                                                                                                  http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY


                                                                                                                                  __________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1804 From: Glenn Date: 12/17/2006
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
                                                                                                                                  One problem I assume was resolved with the metal bodies on Hustler chassis--the Hustler had a "split frame" one side each polarity. A metal body should short that out, without suitable insulation.
                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                  Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 5:29 PM
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Old HO Photos

                                                                                                                                  I have a hustler with the Cary box cab on it.  It is really rather good looking and quite believable looking.  I guess now I'm going to have to post a photo of it.  (One more little project to do).  Also have one of the GEM industrial diesels.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Chuck Kinzer
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                  Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 3:51 PM
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Old HO Photos


                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                  From: "Salt&Pepper Whoknows" <saltnpepper69@ hotmail.com>
                                                                                                                                  To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com>
                                                                                                                                  Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 2:05 PM
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Old HO Photos

                                                                                                                                  > Herb,
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > At what point did Athearn go from the Metal Hustler body to the Plastic
                                                                                                                                  > Body
                                                                                                                                  > on the Hi F drive? Any idea of what a plastic Hustler with shot rubber
                                                                                                                                  > bands might
                                                                                                                                  > be worth these days? Thank you
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Loren

                                                                                                                                  I don't know that Athearn ever HAD a metal Hustler.

                                                                                                                                  Gem sold a BRASS model ca. 1960 or so that sure looked exactly like a
                                                                                                                                  Hustler!

                                                                                                                                  The other metal body that was mentioned here a couple posts ago was an
                                                                                                                                  "aftermarket" white metal box cab body that was offered by Cary. I think
                                                                                                                                  Bowser may still make it.

                                                                                                                                  As far as price, two Hustlers in working order went on eBay last week for $
                                                                                                                                  15.25 the pair (my maximum bud was $15.00 and I wasn't on line when the
                                                                                                                                  auction ended)

                                                                                                                                  Don

                                                                                                                                  don.dellmann@ prodigy.net
                                                                                                                                  http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                                                                                                                  Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                                  http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                                                                                                                  http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                                  Co-moderator
                                                                                                                                  http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY

                                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1805 From: Dave Slater Date: 12/17/2006
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Hi-Fi (was Test, please disregard)
                                                                                                                                  I think that's the one Noah used to control the trains he had on the ARK!!!!!..  LOL
                                                                                                                                  Dave S.
                                                                                                                                  From: herb1013
                                                                                                                                  Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 11:41 AM
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Test, please disregard

                                                                                                                                  Hi there are 8 more photos on the photo album. A GP9 with HiF drive and a Husler with a smaller HiF drive that still works but needs brushes. The old power pack pictures are there to.
                                                                                                                                                     Herb the bionic man

                                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1806 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 12/17/2006
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Loco
                                                                                                                                  Hi Guys:  I took a  IHC 2-8-0  loco and U.S.Army Transportation Corps.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                              Ray L
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                    I had a Stroke

                                                                                                                                  __________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                  Group: vintageHO Message: 1807 From: Raymond Lorts Sr Date: 12/17/2006
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Fwd: Some photos for you!
                                                                                                                                  Attachments :


                                                                                                                                    Note: forwarded message attached.

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                                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1808 From: John Barlow Date: 12/17/2006
                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: The Military Prototypes
                                                                                                                                    Dear Ray,
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                    This is the first Transportation Corps steam locomotive model I have seen. I am not sure of prototypicality, but it is different. I found a British company, via a Russian model railroading site, that offers a prototypical kit (in brass and lead) of a steam loco the Army employed overseas in Europe as the Allies were rebuilding European rail systems. Iam sad that the 2-8-0 "Pershings" have not been a subject here for a manufacturer. The Army road-tested their charges on private trackage, such as the M&Pa (Ma & Pa), a photo of one being run appearing in that classic book on that road. I like having a few 20th Century U.S. military pieces around, and they are interesting.
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                    John Barlow (jdenver4150@...

                                                                                                                                    Raymond Lorts Sr <RaymondLorts@...> wrote:


                                                                                                                                    Note: forwarded message attached.
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                                                                                                                                    Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 15:07:47 -0700 (PDT)
                                                                                                                                    To: raymondlorts@...
                                                                                                                                    From: "PhotoShow Circle" <photoshow@...>
                                                                                                                                    Subject: Some photos for you!

                                                                                                                                    The Lorts Family has sent you Photos!



                                                                                                                                    Full-size versions of these photos are attached to this email.


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                                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1809 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/18/2006
                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Loco
                                                                                                                                    Nice looking engine.
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                    Don
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                    Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 10:17 PM
                                                                                                                                    Subject: [vintageHO] Loco

                                                                                                                                    Hi Guys:  I took a  IHC 2-8-0  loco and U.S.Army Transportation Corps.
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                Ray L
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                      I had a Stroke

                                                                                                                                    __________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1810 From: takefive247 Date: 12/18/2006
                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Athearn
                                                                                                                                    Herb,
                                                                                                                                    Is that number for the little Husler belts? I have a little red
                                                                                                                                    husler like your picture. Mines number 57. Motor runs but I need belts.
                                                                                                                                    Also would like to put Kd couplers on it. Would you know what one
                                                                                                                                    will work?
                                                                                                                                    Thanks
                                                                                                                                    Bill

                                                                                                                                    --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "herb1013" <herb1013@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    > Here is the Athearn parts page. The part number for the Hi F belts is
                                                                                                                                    90101.
                                                                                                                                    > 24 belts for $3.60
                                                                                                                                    > Herb the bionic man
                                                                                                                                    > http://www.athearn.com/Products/Parts/Default.aspx
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1811 From: Ray Hobin Date: 12/18/2006
                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: The Military Prototypes
                                                                                                                                    On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 23:44:38 -0800 (PST), you wrote:

                                                                                                                                    > This is the first Transportation Corps steam locomotive model I have seen. I am not sure of prototypicality, but it is different. I found a British company, via a Russian model railroading site, that offers a prototypical kit (in brass and lead) of a steam loco the Army employed overseas in Europe as the Allies were rebuilding European rail systems. Iam sad that the 2-8-0 "Pershings" have not been a subject here for a manufacturer. The Army road-tested their charges on private trackage, such as the M&Pa (Ma & Pa), a photo of one being run appearing in that classic book on that road. I like having a few 20th Century U.S. military pieces around, and they are interesting.

                                                                                                                                    I've got some pix of assorted TC steamers taken at Ft. Eustis VA in the
                                                                                                                                    late 50s...B&W and some color slides...not the best quality...2-8-0s #610,
                                                                                                                                    602 and 620. Not sure what's in a slide tray or on 8mm film.


                                                                                                                                    Ray Hobin
                                                                                                                                    NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX
                                                                                                                                    Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
                                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1812 From: herb1013 Date: 12/18/2006
                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Athearn
                                                                                                                                    Hi Bill. The part number is 90101. Not sure of the kadee couplers tho mine has the origional couplers because they work well. If my memory is correct my yellow Husler was number 57 also. But who knows where that is now since my brother sold it years ago.
                                                                                                                                                         Herb the bionic man
                                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1813 From: herb1013 Date: 12/18/2006
                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Hi-Fi (was Test, please disregard)
                                                                                                                                    Dave that power pack still works. Unlike most of the things you buy today it was made well. We just junked a freezer we bought in 1960 when our 3rd daughter was born. It was still running when they carted it away in 2005. We got rid of it because the seals went and it ran to much, I was afraid it would heat to much and cause a fire. It also cost more to run.
                                                                                                                                                        Herb the bionic man
                                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1814 From: herb1013 Date: 12/18/2006
                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Old HO Photos
                                                                                                                                    Hi Mike. My Husler has the needlepoint axles and each side of the frame is insulated from the other with a black plastic insert. When it was new I drilled out the spotlight and put in a grain of wheat bulb. That has since burned out so I took it off and didnt replace it. The trouble with my layout is to many grand and great grand kids like to play with it. When they break anything I buy 3 to fix it now and 2 more times later.
                                                                                                                                                         Herb the bionic man
                                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1815 From: John Barlow Date: 12/18/2006
                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Athearn
                                                                                                                                    Dear Herb,
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                    You might mention that some Hustlers were marketed by Lionel HO back in the late 1950's...really just Athearns.
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                    John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)

                                                                                                                                    herb1013 <herb1013@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                    Hi Bill. The part number is 90101. Not sure of the kadee couplers tho mine has the origional couplers because they work well. If my memory is correct my yellow Husler was number 57 also. But who knows where that is now since my brother sold it years ago.
                                                                                                                                                         Herb the bionic man

                                                                                                                                    __________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1816 From: Wobbly913 Date: 12/18/2006
                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Athearn
                                                                                                                                    All
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                    Athearn also made a model for Lionel called Husky. The body is a little different from a standard Athearn Hustler.  The headlight on a Hustler rises above the top of the hood, the Husky headlight was below the level of the hood. Athearn used what appears to be the same frame for the Husky, but instead of being Hi F powered a geared drive is used, a total change from Hustler
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                    Husky's come up on Ebay from time to time. One decorated for Union Pacific sold recently for $47.76, another decorated for Rock Island sold for $20.50.
                                                                                                                                    I don't currently have a Husky in my collection of Hustlers, but they are on my list to buy.
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                    Wobbly913

                                                                                                                                    John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                    Dear Herb,
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                    You might mention that some Hustlers were marketed by Lionel HO back in the late 1950's...really just Athearns.
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                    John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)

                                                                                                                                    herb1013 <herb1013@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                    Hi Bill. The part number is 90101. Not sure of the kadee couplers tho mine has the origional couplers because they work well. If my memory is correct my yellow Husler was number 57 also. But who knows where that is now since my brother sold it years ago.
                                                                                                                                                         Herb the bionic man

                                                                                                                                    __________________________________________________

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                                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1817 From: Andrew Emmerson Date: 12/18/2006
                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: The Military Prototypes
                                                                                                                                    It's what we call the S160 class
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                    If you go to http://www.british-ho.com/ and go to 'Traction and trains', then 'Steam' you can find more information about the DJH S160 and also the USATC 0-60T tank loco by Alexander Models.
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                    The 0-6-0T is also sold by PB in Belgium
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                    ...and they also do a Baldwin 0-4-0T from World War I.
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                    All of these models are in H0 scale, mainly of brass, in kit form only and, I fear, rather expensive on account of the very small market for these 'obscure' locos. They are all very good quality.
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                    You can also buy several different USA Transportation Corps freight wagons from WW1 and WW2. Go to http://www.british-ho.com/, then 'Freight wagons' and finally to ''USATC'. This list is not complete; Fleischmann do some WW1 USATC bogie stock as well ( a covered van and possibly an open gondola as well).
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                    Hope this helps,
                                                                                                                                    Andy Emmerson (member of British 1:87 Society).
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                    From: Ray Hobin
                                                                                                                                    Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 2:33 PM
                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [vintageHO] The Military Prototypes

                                                                                                                                    On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 23:44:38 -0800 (PST), you wrote:

                                                                                                                                    > This is the first Transportation Corps steam locomotive model I have seen. I am not sure of prototypicality, but it is different. I found a British company, via a Russian model railroading site, that offers a prototypical kit (in brass and lead) of a steam loco the Army employed overseas in Europe as the Allies were rebuilding European rail systems. Iam sad that the 2-8-0 "Pershings" have not been a subject here for a manufacturer. The Army road-tested their charges on private trackage, such as the M&Pa (Ma & Pa), a photo of one being run appearing in that classic book on that road. I like having a few 20th Century U.S. military pieces around, and they are interesting.

                                                                                                                                    I've got some pix of assorted TC steamers taken at Ft. Eustis VA in the
                                                                                                                                    late 50s...B&W and some color slides...not the best quality...2- 8-0s #610,
                                                                                                                                    602 and 620. Not sure what's in a slide tray or on 8mm film.

                                                                                                                                    Ray Hobin
                                                                                                                                    NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX
                                                                                                                                    Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]

                                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1818 From: Rick Jones Date: 12/18/2006
                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Athearn
                                                                                                                                    Wobbly913 wrote:
                                                                                                                                    > All
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    > Athearn also made a model for Lionel called Husky. The body is a little
                                                                                                                                    > different from a standard Athearn Hustler. The headlight on a Hustler
                                                                                                                                    > rises above the top of the hood, the Husky headlight was below the level
                                                                                                                                    > of the hood. Athearn used what appears to be the same frame for the
                                                                                                                                    > Husky, but instead of being Hi F powered a geared drive is used, a total
                                                                                                                                    > change from Hustler
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    > Husky's come up on Ebay from time to time. One decorated for Union
                                                                                                                                    > Pacific sold recently for $47.76, another decorated for Rock Island sold
                                                                                                                                    > for $20.50.
                                                                                                                                    > I don't currently have a Husky in my collection of Hustlers, but they
                                                                                                                                    > are on my list to buy.

                                                                                                                                    I have one of the Lionel units in an Air Force paint scheme. Don't
                                                                                                                                    recall where I got, probably in with a batch of other stuff I bought a
                                                                                                                                    couple of decades ago. This thread got me wondering what I might get for
                                                                                                                                    it if I put it up on eBay.

                                                                                                                                    --

                                                                                                                                    Rick Jones

                                                                                                                                    The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad
                                                                                                                                    http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/

                                                                                                                                    Badgers? We don' need no steenkin' badgers!
                                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1819 From: Wobbly913 Date: 12/18/2006
                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Athearn
                                                                                                                                    Rick
                                                                                                                                    I have seen the Air Force model come up on ebay, do not recall what it went for.  Husky's usually go pretty well whatever paint scheme they are in.
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                    Wobbly913

                                                                                                                                    Rick Jones <r.t.jones@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                    I have one of the Lionel units in an Air Force paint scheme. Don't
                                                                                                                                    recall where I got, probably in with a batch of other stuff I bought a
                                                                                                                                    couple of decades ago. This thread got me wondering what I might get for
                                                                                                                                    it if I put it up on eBay.

                                                                                                                                    --

                                                                                                                                    Rick Jones

                                                                                                                                    The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad
                                                                                                                                    http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/

                                                                                                                                    Badgers? We don' need no steenkin' badgers!



                                                                                                                                    __________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                    Group: vintageHO Message: 1820 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/18/2006
                                                                                                                                    Subject: mdc metal
                                                                                                                                    Attachments :
                                                                                                                                      The last eBay box I mentioned the other day arrived today. These pictures
                                                                                                                                      are right out of the box before I did anything to them. All will need minor
                                                                                                                                      touch-up where the paint is chipped but shouldn't be a problem.

                                                                                                                                      The SP box can go right on the layout, ready to run to my standards (Kadees
                                                                                                                                      and good metal wheelsets).

                                                                                                                                      The NP car is missing one door, easy to replace from the scrap box, and
                                                                                                                                      since I took the picture, the plastic wheels have been replaced by
                                                                                                                                      intermountains.

                                                                                                                                      The Milwaukee road car got the same in the original sidefromas, but I need
                                                                                                                                      to find the pair of Kadee no. 4's that I saw in the basement the other day,
                                                                                                                                      but now I can't find! :-( It may be my imagination, or just the way the
                                                                                                                                      metal is discolored, but on this one, where the paint is flaked off, the
                                                                                                                                      sides almost look like brass!

                                                                                                                                      Don

                                                                                                                                      don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                                                      http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                                                      Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                                      Co-moderator
                                                                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1821 From: Roger Aultman Date: 12/19/2006
                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: mdc metal
                                                                                                                                      Don Dellmann wrote:
                                                                                                                                      > The last eBay box I mentioned the other day arrived today. These pictures
                                                                                                                                      > are right out of the box before I did anything to them. All will need minor
                                                                                                                                      > touch-up where the paint is chipped but shouldn't be a problem.
                                                                                                                                      >

                                                                                                                                      The Milwaukee car is interesting, the Varney foil ribsides I have the
                                                                                                                                      ribs run all the way to the end. Do you think it could be a metal MDC
                                                                                                                                      car? Roger Aultman

                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                      >


                                                                                                                                      --
                                                                                                                                      http://www.nconnect.net/~raul/AA1.htm

                                                                                                                                      Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JohnEnglish-Hobbyline/
                                                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1822 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/19/2006
                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: mdc metal
                                                                                                                                      It IS an MDC metal, I know that.  Everything else jives, it;s identical to the other two MDC Metal Muilwaukee rib sides I have.  It's just the sides looked to be a brass color where the paint is flaked off.  If feels like white metal, just LOOKS like brass.
                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                      Don
                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                      Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 10:58 PM
                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [vintageHO] mdc metal



                                                                                                                                      Don Dellmann wrote:
                                                                                                                                      > The last eBay box I mentioned the other day arrived today. These pictures
                                                                                                                                      > are right out of the box before I did anything to them. All will need minor
                                                                                                                                      > touch-up where the paint is chipped but shouldn't be a problem.
                                                                                                                                      >

                                                                                                                                      The Milwaukee car is interesting, the Varney foil ribsides I have the
                                                                                                                                      ribs run all the way to the end. Do you think it could be a metal MDC
                                                                                                                                      car? Roger Aultman

                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                                                                                                                                      >

                                                                                                                                      --
                                                                                                                                      http://www.nconnect .net/~raul/ AA1.htm

                                                                                                                                      Take a look at the new "John English - Hobbyline" Yahoo group.
                                                                                                                                      http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/JohnEnglis h-Hobbyline/

                                                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1823 From: bty419224 Date: 12/19/2006
                                                                                                                                      Subject: Unknown mechanisms in England.
                                                                                                                                      Good Day everyone,

                                                                                                                                      I have just uploaded a few photographs of two mechanisms I have had
                                                                                                                                      for quite some time, about which I know very little.
                                                                                                                                      They came to me some while ago in mixed lots purchased on that very
                                                                                                                                      mixed blessing - eBay!

                                                                                                                                      The first is a rather course scale 4 wheel rubber band drive mech.
                                                                                                                                      Which I assume is from a kiddies toy train set rather than a scale
                                                                                                                                      model!! It runs well on 12v DC and is in working order but dislikes
                                                                                                                                      anything approaching scale track. The frame is cast metal (Mazac?)in
                                                                                                                                      two parts, insulated from one another and the wheels are on
                                                                                                                                      split/insulated axles, so there are no wiper type pickups fitted. It
                                                                                                                                      looks to me to be of German or possibly very early Japanese
                                                                                                                                      manufacture. Any information would be most welcome.

                                                                                                                                      The second mech. is perhaps more in keeping with Vintage H0. I
                                                                                                                                      belive it may be a Lindsay chassis for a small 8 wheel switcher. The
                                                                                                                                      base is cast metal (Mazac/Zamac?) and is slightly corroded to one
                                                                                                                                      side of the motor, but otherwise undamaged. The motor looks like an
                                                                                                                                      early Pittman and the drive is via a rubberband. I have used a
                                                                                                                                      Hornby (England) traction tyre which sort of works! The trucks look
                                                                                                                                      to be made of plastic or bakelite and have a brown coloured tinge to
                                                                                                                                      them. There are no coupler mounting points so I assume these would
                                                                                                                                      have been on the body. Any ideas as to the identity would be most
                                                                                                                                      welcome.

                                                                                                                                      I am a member of the Train Collectors Society in England
                                                                                                                                      (www.traincollectors.co.uk) and my main interests are British 00
                                                                                                                                      using centre 3rd pick-up, manufactured before the demise of Hornby
                                                                                                                                      Dublo in 1966. So like Andrew Emmerson (Another TCS member.)who was
                                                                                                                                      asking after Reidpath a few days ago, I am also looking for anything
                                                                                                                                      by Reidpath and the likes of Exley - Who had a very good trade in
                                                                                                                                      America during the 1950s. Hamblings were probably unknown in the US
                                                                                                                                      and Hornby Dublo, which was popular in the post-war years I believe.
                                                                                                                                      I have quite a lot of vintage American equipment which I would like
                                                                                                                                      to exchange (Trade!) for British model railway parts. So if anyone
                                                                                                                                      is interested please contact me off group.

                                                                                                                                      Compliments of the season to one and all,

                                                                                                                                      Chris Smith

                                                                                                                                      (In a rather damp Manchester, England.)
                                                                                                                                      Group: vintageHO Message: 1824 From: Ray Hobin Date: 12/19/2006
                                                                                                                                      Subject: Bomb range loco
                                                                                                                                      Attachments :
                                                                                                                                        John:

                                                                                                                                        Here's two pix taken at Eglin AFB in 1963 or 1964. Loco and tender.

                                                                                                                                        Ray
                                                                                                                                        Group: vintageHO Message: 1825 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/19/2006
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Unknown mechanisms in England.
                                                                                                                                        Attachments :
                                                                                                                                          Re: Your switcher drive, compare your photos with these I just took.
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          This is the HObbyline FM H-10-44 that I got last week.
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Don
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                          From: bty419224
                                                                                                                                          Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 9:34 AM
                                                                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Unknown mechanisms in England.

                                                                                                                                          Good Day everyone,

                                                                                                                                          I have just uploaded a few photographs of two mechanisms I have had
                                                                                                                                          for quite some time, about which I know very little.
                                                                                                                                          They came to me some while ago in mixed lots purchased on that very
                                                                                                                                          mixed blessing - eBay!

                                                                                                                                          The first is a rather course scale 4 wheel rubber band drive mech.
                                                                                                                                          Which I assume is from a kiddies toy train set rather than a scale
                                                                                                                                          model!! It runs well on 12v DC and is in working order but dislikes
                                                                                                                                          anything approaching scale track. The frame is cast metal (Mazac?)in
                                                                                                                                          two parts, insulated from one another and the wheels are on
                                                                                                                                          split/insulated axles, so there are no wiper type pickups fitted. It
                                                                                                                                          looks to me to be of German or possibly very early Japanese
                                                                                                                                          manufacture. Any information would be most welcome.

                                                                                                                                          The second mech. is perhaps more in keeping with Vintage H0. I
                                                                                                                                          belive it may be a Lindsay chassis for a small 8 wheel switcher. The
                                                                                                                                          base is cast metal (Mazac/Zamac? ) and is slightly corroded to one
                                                                                                                                          side of the motor, but otherwise undamaged. The motor looks like an
                                                                                                                                          early Pittman and the drive is via a rubberband. I have used a
                                                                                                                                          Hornby (England) traction tyre which sort of works! The trucks look
                                                                                                                                          to be made of plastic or bakelite and have a brown coloured tinge to
                                                                                                                                          them. There are no coupler mounting points so I assume these would
                                                                                                                                          have been on the body. Any ideas as to the identity would be most
                                                                                                                                          welcome.

                                                                                                                                          I am a member of the Train Collectors Society in England
                                                                                                                                          (www.traincollector s.co.uk) and my main interests are British 00
                                                                                                                                          using centre 3rd pick-up, manufactured before the demise of Hornby
                                                                                                                                          Dublo in 1966. So like Andrew Emmerson (Another TCS member.)who was
                                                                                                                                          asking after Reidpath a few days ago, I am also looking for anything
                                                                                                                                          by Reidpath and the likes of Exley - Who had a very good trade in
                                                                                                                                          America during the 1950s. Hamblings were probably unknown in the US
                                                                                                                                          and Hornby Dublo, which was popular in the post-war years I believe.
                                                                                                                                          I have quite a lot of vintage American equipment which I would like
                                                                                                                                          to exchange (Trade!) for British model railway parts. So if anyone
                                                                                                                                          is interested please contact me off group.

                                                                                                                                          Compliments of the season to one and all,

                                                                                                                                          Chris Smith

                                                                                                                                          (In a rather damp Manchester, England.)

                                                                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1826 From: Glenn Date: 12/19/2006
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: mdc metal
                                                                                                                                          Since you mention metal MDC--I'm looking for a few items--need hatches and doors for the reefer, also need the hopper(s) if they were made, the "economy" reefer (had sides and doors all in one pice) and UP caboose. gj
                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                          Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 8:28 PM
                                                                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] mdc metal

                                                                                                                                          The last eBay box I mentioned the other day arrived today. These pictures
                                                                                                                                          are right out of the box before I did anything to them. All will need minor
                                                                                                                                          touch-up where the paint is chipped but shouldn't be a problem.

                                                                                                                                          The SP box can go right on the layout, ready to run to my standards (Kadees
                                                                                                                                          and good metal wheelsets).

                                                                                                                                          The NP car is missing one door, easy to replace from the scrap box, and
                                                                                                                                          since I took the picture, the plastic wheels have been replaced by
                                                                                                                                          intermountains.

                                                                                                                                          The Milwaukee road car got the same in the original sidefromas, but I need
                                                                                                                                          to find the pair of Kadee no. 4's that I saw in the basement the other day,
                                                                                                                                          but now I can't find! :-( It may be my imagination, or just the way the
                                                                                                                                          metal is discolored, but on this one, where the paint is flaked off, the
                                                                                                                                          sides almost look like brass!

                                                                                                                                          Don

                                                                                                                                          don.dellmann@ prodigy.net
                                                                                                                                          http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                                                                                                                          Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                                          http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                                                                                                                          http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                                          Co-moderator
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                                                                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1827 From: John Barlow Date: 12/19/2006
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Unknown mechanisms in England.
                                                                                                                                          Dear Chris,
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          To the contrary, some Hornby did make it to the States and had whatever popularity. There area  few American-Canadian shops around which specialioze in European (and British) prototypes and accessories. One area gathering interest is the pantograph equipment because there are several old German ones that really substitute for some Pennsylvania Railroad types, having the correct number of pick-up shoes atop them. Several resin models here of such equipment (like Funero & Camerlengo's HO PRR MP54E's) require them.
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Here the Fleischmann and Marklin lines are still large; and Jouef (France) has been noteable. Some years ago (maybe the 1960's) a French (?) firm offered a fully detailed
                                                                                                                                          HO replica of the French Railways dining car that was used in two World Wars for surrender purposes (once by the French in 1918 and once by the Germans in 1940. It was destroyed by the Gestapo as the Germans fled Paris in 1944.) By 1967 it was already a collector's item, and my one-time hobby shop boss kept his in a plexiglass display case with its history plate near it inside the case. It is shown in the out-of-print book (British, I think) titled Model Trains (hardbound-white binding). The Yugoslavians were big via AHM/Rivorassi (?).
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          I all, "golden oldies" (not just old brass) are taking on renewed interest some people would not believe. I dig it.
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                          Re: Your switcher drive, compare your photos with these I just took.
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          This is the HObbyline FM H-10-44 that I got last week.
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Don
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                          From: bty419224
                                                                                                                                          Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 9:34 AM
                                                                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Unknown mechanisms in England.

                                                                                                                                          Good Day everyone,

                                                                                                                                          I have just uploaded a few photographs of two mechanisms I have had
                                                                                                                                          for quite some time, about which I know very little.
                                                                                                                                          They came to me some while ago in mixed lots purchased on that very
                                                                                                                                          mixed blessing - eBay!

                                                                                                                                          The first is a rather course scale 4 wheel rubber band drive mech.
                                                                                                                                          Which I assume is from a kiddies toy train set rather than a scale
                                                                                                                                          model!! It runs well on 12v DC and is in working order but dislikes
                                                                                                                                          anything approaching scale track. The frame is cast metal (Mazac?)in
                                                                                                                                          two parts, insulated from one another and the wheels are on
                                                                                                                                          split/insulated axles, so there are no wiper type pickups fitted. It
                                                                                                                                          looks to me to be of German or possibly very early Japanese
                                                                                                                                          manufacture. Any information would be most welcome.

                                                                                                                                          The second mech. is perhaps more in keeping with Vintage H0. I
                                                                                                                                          belive it may be a Lindsay chassis for a small 8 wheel switcher. The
                                                                                                                                          base is cast metal (Mazac/Zamac? ) and is slightly corroded to one
                                                                                                                                          side of the motor, but otherwise undamaged. The motor looks like an
                                                                                                                                          early Pittman and the drive is via a rubberband. I have used a
                                                                                                                                          Hornby (England) traction tyre which sort of works! The trucks look
                                                                                                                                          to be made of plastic or bakelite and have a brown coloured tinge to
                                                                                                                                          them. There are no coupler mounting points so I assume these would
                                                                                                                                          have been on the body. Any ideas as to the identity would be most
                                                                                                                                          welcome.

                                                                                                                                          I am a member of the Train Collectors Society in England
                                                                                                                                          (www.traincollector s.co.uk) and my main interests are British 00
                                                                                                                                          using centre 3rd pick-up, manufactured before the demise of Hornby
                                                                                                                                          Dublo in 1966. So like Andrew Emmerson (Another TCS member.)who was
                                                                                                                                          asking after Reidpath a few days ago, I am also looking for anything
                                                                                                                                          by Reidpath and the likes of Exley - Who had a very good trade in
                                                                                                                                          America during the 1950s. Hamblings were probably unknown in the US
                                                                                                                                          and Hornby Dublo, which was popular in the post-war years I believe.
                                                                                                                                          I have quite a lot of vintage American equipment which I would like
                                                                                                                                          to exchange (Trade!) for British model railway parts. So if anyone
                                                                                                                                          is interested please contact me off group.

                                                                                                                                          Compliments of the season to one and all,

                                                                                                                                          Chris Smith

                                                                                                                                          (In a rather damp Manchester, England.)


                                                                                                                                          __________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1828 From: cgls@btinternet.com Date: 12/20/2006
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Unknown mechanisms in England.
                                                                                                                                          Hello John,
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Many thanks for your interesting e-mail.
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          I know of the Hornby Dublo interest in Canada and the Rare CPR Pacific, which Dublo collectors all rave about. But I didn't realise it was quite so common in The States. As a former member of the Hornby Railway Collectors Association I also learnt that at one time Meccano actually had a manufacturing plant in the USA. But that was way back in the 1920s when they produced 0 Gauge tinplate.
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Triang (Now Hornby. Just to confuse everyone!!) was also popular in Canada, but less so in the USA. I have several Triang contacts in Canada, yet only one in California.
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          I suppose it's all to do with Canada being more Anglicised than the USA and the fact that a stable British trading presence had been established there for much longer. After all they didn't tip tea into Boston harbour!! (Sorry. My warped sense of humour.)
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          As for other European manufacturers. I think the Germans (Marklin & Fleischmann.) must have better business sense than the British used to. But Hornby has certainly caught up in recent years. Marklin is well established all over the world. I even found a Marklin Yahoo Group based in Indonesia the other day!! And I know that places like Finland are dominated by Marklin, although I do actually have one Triang contact there too. Holland on the other had was rather anti German, a throwback to the war I suppose.
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          I seem to remember the Armistice Car you refer to was a Pocher model and was made in Italy. (I'm never sure if Pocher was part of Rivarossi or not as their models are very similar.) But Pocher made all kinds of - usually very expensive - models, including large scale car kits. Again the Italian made models were to be found all over the world. Lima particularly, made models of South African and Australian prototypes for example. Of course they have all tumbled into the Hornby camp now.
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          But I do agree that ' Old, Vintage, Heritage', - take your pick - models are finding a bigger niche these days. About 8 years ago, when I started to look for obscure British made models from the 40s and 50s most people didn't know what they were and they tended to be quite cheap. But now there is more interest, hence more knowledge and some items have been rather expensive for me. But I don't mind. When I compare them with present day, new prices, I still feel I have got a bargain as well as helping to preserve an interesting artifact for future generations.
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          I've waffled on enough for one e-mail. Thanks again for contacting me and best wishes for the festive season,
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Chris
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          (In a slightly over cast Manchester, England.)
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                           


                                                                                                                                          John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                          Dear Chris,
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          To the contrary, some Hornby did make it to the States and had whatever popularity. There area  few American-Canadian shops around which specialioze in European (and British) prototypes and accessories. One area gathering interest is the pantograph equipment because there are several old German ones that really substitute for some Pennsylvania Railroad types, having the correct number of pick-up shoes atop them. Several resin models here of such equipment (like Funero & Camerlengo's HO PRR MP54E's) require them.
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Here the Fleischmann and Marklin lines are still large; and Jouef (France) has been noteable. Some years ago (maybe the 1960's) a French (?) firm offered a fully detailed
                                                                                                                                          HO replica of the French Railways dining car that was used in two World Wars for surrender purposes (once by the French in 1918 and once by the Germans in 1940. It was destroyed by the Gestapo as the Germans fled Paris in 1944.) By 1967 it was already a collector's item, and my one-time hobby shop boss kept his in a plexiglass display case with its history plate near it inside the case. It is shown in the out-of-print book (British, I think) titled Model Trains (hardbound-white binding). The Yugoslavians were big via AHM/Rivorassi (?).
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          I all, "golden oldies" (not just old brass) are taking on renewed interest some people would not believe. I dig it.
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1829 From: cgls@btinternet.com Date: 12/20/2006
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Unknown mechanisms in England.
                                                                                                                                          Hello Don,
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Many thanks for the information and the photo you posted. It all helps satisfy the curiosity! The design reminds me of the UK built English Electric Type 1 (Class 20) from around 1957, which shouldn't be surprising as UK Diesel designs then tended to be based on American practice. Some Class 20s are still in service and well over 40 years old!!
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Best wishes,
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Chris Smith

                                                                                                                                          Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                          Re: Your switcher drive, compare your photos with these I just took.
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          This is the HObbyline FM H-10-44 that I got last week.
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Don
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1830 From: John Barlow Date: 12/20/2006
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Unknown mechanisms in England.
                                                                                                                                          Dear Chris,
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Rare pieces out of Europe, alluding to a few American prototytpes that have circulated unappreciated for what they are or represent. The HO scale Evans Auto Loader came up in another group...being made by Tyco here and a few others...but it looked (as one gentleman correctly said) too toy-like. The thing was used on the NYC, but no model was ever accurately painted for that railroad. And N scalers used to snub the 2-6-4T by AHM from 35 or more years ago, seeing it lettered for the PENNSYLVANIA or SANTA FE. A tad off, to be sure. The loco made was a READING (Philadelphia & Reading) tank commuter Q-1D steamer of the early 20th Century that went through various modifications but all had the Wooten boiler, the Reading boiler front, and the slight arch to the cab side windows. But American railroads have experimented with European designs on their lines, modeled decades past like the Krauss-Maffei diesels (AHM) of then West Germany (tried on the defunct D&RGW here in Colorado and the now defunct Southern Pacific in California.) Amtrak "Swedish Meatballs" and German (?) "ICE" (?) are other examples. Few Americans realize the Napa Valley Wine Train (in California) FA's are FA-4 A/B's, made exclusively at the Montreal Locomotive Works (MLW), are Canadian, for Canadian roads,...although American Locomotive Company owned MLW. Models in several scales are available. Hey, Canada is not the U.S.A.-it's a foreign locomotive in America (technicality, there!) There are more to mention, but I will not want to put too many to sleep.
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          HAPPY HOLIDAYS to all the website members!
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          John Barlow (jdenver4150@...)
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                           cgls@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                          Hello John,
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Many thanks for your interesting e-mail.
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          I know of the Hornby Dublo interest in Canada and the Rare CPR Pacific, which Dublo collectors all rave about. But I didn't realise it was quite so common in The States. As a former member of the Hornby Railway Collectors Association I also learnt that at one time Meccano actually had a manufacturing plant in the USA. But that was way back in the 1920s when they produced 0 Gauge tinplate.
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Triang (Now Hornby. Just to confuse everyone!!) was also popular in Canada, but less so in the USA. I have several Triang contacts in Canada, yet only one in California.
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          I suppose it's all to do with Canada being more Anglicised than the USA and the fact that a stable British trading presence had been established there for much longer. After all they didn't tip tea into Boston harbour!! (Sorry. My warped sense of humour.)
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          As for other European manufacturers. I think the Germans (Marklin & Fleischmann. ) must have better business sense than the British used to. But Hornby has certainly caught up in recent years. Marklin is well established all over the world. I even found a Marklin Yahoo Group based in Indonesia the other day!! And I know that places like Finland are dominated by Marklin, although I do actually have one Triang contact there too. Holland on the other had was rather anti German, a throwback to the war I suppose.
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          I seem to remember the Armistice Car you refer to was a Pocher model and was made in Italy. (I'm never sure if Pocher was part of Rivarossi or not as their models are very similar.) But Pocher made all kinds of - usually very expensive - models, including large scale car kits. Again the Italian made models were to be found all over the world. Lima particularly, made models of South African and Australian prototypes for example. Of course they have all tumbled into the Hornby camp now.
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          But I do agree that ' Old, Vintage, Heritage', - take your pick - models are finding a bigger niche these days. About 8 years ago, when I started to look for obscure British made models from the 40s and 50s most people didn't know what they were and they tended to be quite cheap. But now there is more interest, hence more knowledge and some items have been rather expensive for me. But I don't mind. When I compare them with present day, new prices, I still feel I have got a bargain as well as helping to preserve an interesting artifact for future generations.
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          I've waffled on enough for one e-mail. Thanks again for contacting me and best wishes for the festive season,
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Chris
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          (In a slightly over cast Manchester, England.)
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                           


                                                                                                                                          John Barlow <jdenver4150@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                                                                                                                                          Dear Chris,
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          To the contrary, some Hornby did make it to the States and had whatever popularity. There area  few American-Canadian shops around which specialioze in European (and British) prototypes and accessories. One area gathering interest is the pantograph equipment because there are several old German ones that really substitute for some Pennsylvania Railroad types, having the correct number of pick-up shoes atop them. Several resin models here of such equipment (like Funero & Camerlengo's HO PRR MP54E's) require them.
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Here the Fleischmann and Marklin lines are still large; and Jouef (France) has been noteable. Some years ago (maybe the 1960's) a French (?) firm offered a fully detailed
                                                                                                                                          HO replica of the French Railways dining car that was used in two World Wars for surrender purposes (once by the French in 1918 and once by the Germans in 1940. It was destroyed by the Gestapo as the Germans fled Paris in 1944.) By 1967 it was already a collector's item, and my one-time hobby shop boss kept his in a plexiglass display case with its history plate near it inside the case. It is shown in the out-of-print book (British, I think) titled Model Trains (hardbound-white binding). The Yugoslavians were big via AHM/Rivorassi (?).
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          I all, "golden oldies" (not just old brass) are taking on renewed interest some people would not believe. I dig it.
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          __________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                          Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                          Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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                                                                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1831 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/20/2006
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Unknown mechanisms in England.
                                                                                                                                          The prototype is interesting too.  The Fairbanks Morse units used an "opposed piston" engine, originally developed for the Navy to use in WW II submarines.  There are two crankshfts, one at the top and one at the bottom, with 2 pistons in each cylinder and no cylinder heads.
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Imagine one leg of an English Electric "Deltic" prime mover and you'll get the idea.
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Don
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                          From: cgls@...
                                                                                                                                          Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 3:11 AM
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Unknown mechanisms in England.

                                                                                                                                          Hello Don,
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Many thanks for the information and the photo you posted. It all helps satisfy the curiosity! The design reminds me of the UK built English Electric Type 1 (Class 20) from around 1957, which shouldn't be surprising as UK Diesel designs then tended to be based on American practice. Some Class 20s are still in service and well over 40 years old!!
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Best wishes,
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Chris Smith

                                                                                                                                          Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                          Re: Your switcher drive, compare your photos with these I just took.
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          This is the HObbyline FM H-10-44 that I got last week.
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Don
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1832 From: Mike Sloane Date: 12/22/2006
                                                                                                                                          Subject: New member
                                                                                                                                          Hi! I am a new member to this group, but I have been modeling in HO
                                                                                                                                          since 1952, and a large portion of my "collection" consists of items
                                                                                                                                          purchased during the the 1952-62 period. Rather than fill up the
                                                                                                                                          "photos" section of the site with my images, I will spend some time in
                                                                                                                                          the next couple of days getting images of some of my "antiques" and
                                                                                                                                          posting them in my Fotki album under a new heading for vintage models.
                                                                                                                                          It will include loco's, rolling stock, vehicles, and yes, even some
                                                                                                                                          structure kits. Not all of them have stood the test of time, and some
                                                                                                                                          are just static background items or stored on dusty shelves somewhere.

                                                                                                                                          I was going through one of my many cigar boxes of "stuff" the other day
                                                                                                                                          and ran into a Mantua "loop & hook" coupler that must have been
                                                                                                                                          discarded when I converted to KayDee (I suspect it was the bobber
                                                                                                                                          caboose that I still have). they worked surprisingly well, even if they
                                                                                                                                          look nothing like any coupler ever even imagined in real life.

                                                                                                                                          I even have the Varney (Globe?) F3 that cost me 50 cents and a cereal
                                                                                                                                          box top back even before I started my layout. My wife says that I am
                                                                                                                                          beyond being called a pack rat. :-)

                                                                                                                                          Here is an image of my Mantua "Big Six", my second working locomotive.
                                                                                                                                          My first engine was a "Little Six" tank engine, but that seems to have
                                                                                                                                          disappeared. Neither one ever ran well, and I ended up switching over to
                                                                                                                                          Athearn rubber band drive F7's, which was only a very slight
                                                                                                                                          improvement. :-)
                                                                                                                                          <http://public.fotki.com/mikesloane/model_railroad/nvrr_122004_13.html>

                                                                                                                                          Best wishes for the Holidays,

                                                                                                                                          Mike
                                                                                                                                          --
                                                                                                                                          Mike Sloane
                                                                                                                                          Allamuchy NJ
                                                                                                                                          <mikesloane@...>
                                                                                                                                          Website: <www.geocities.com/mikesloane>
                                                                                                                                          Images: <www.fotki.com/mikesloane>

                                                                                                                                          A good end cannot sanctify evil means; nor must we ever do evil,
                                                                                                                                          that good may come of it.
                                                                                                                                          -William Penn, Quaker, founder of Pennsylvania (1644-1718)
                                                                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1833 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/22/2006
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: New member
                                                                                                                                          Glad you're able to join us, I think you'll find a lot of kindred spirits
                                                                                                                                          here.

                                                                                                                                          Don

                                                                                                                                          don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                                                          http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                                                          Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                                          Co-moderator
                                                                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY


                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                          From: "Mike Sloane" <mikesloane@...>
                                                                                                                                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                          Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 9:10 AM
                                                                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] New member


                                                                                                                                          > Hi! I am a new member to this group, but I have been modeling in HO
                                                                                                                                          > since 1952, and a large portion of my "collection" consists of items
                                                                                                                                          > purchased during the the 1952-62 period. Rather than fill up the
                                                                                                                                          > "photos" section of the site with my images, I will spend some time in
                                                                                                                                          > the next couple of days getting images of some of my "antiques" and
                                                                                                                                          > posting them in my Fotki album under a new heading for vintage models.
                                                                                                                                          > It will include loco's, rolling stock, vehicles, and yes, even some
                                                                                                                                          > structure kits. Not all of them have stood the test of time, and some
                                                                                                                                          > are just static background items or stored on dusty shelves somewhere.

                                                                                                                                          (text bobbitted)
                                                                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1834 From: Ray Marinaccio Date: 12/22/2006
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: New member
                                                                                                                                          Welcome aboard Mike.
                                                                                                                                           I look forward to seeing photos of and talking about your vintage collection.

                                                                                                                                          Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                          Glad you're able to join us, I think you'll find a lot of kindred spirits
                                                                                                                                          here.

                                                                                                                                          Don

                                                                                                                                          don.dellmann@ prodigy.net
                                                                                                                                          http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                                                                                                                          Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                                          http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                                                                                                                          http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                                          Co-moderator
                                                                                                                                          http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY

                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                          From: "Mike Sloane" <mikesloane@verizon. net>
                                                                                                                                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com>
                                                                                                                                          Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 9:10 AM
                                                                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] New member

                                                                                                                                          > Hi! I am a new member to this group, but I have been modeling in HO
                                                                                                                                          > since 1952, and a large portion of my "collection" consists of items
                                                                                                                                          > purchased during the the 1952-62 period. Rather than fill up the
                                                                                                                                          > "photos" section of the site with my images, I will spend some time in
                                                                                                                                          > the next couple of days getting images of some of my "antiques" and
                                                                                                                                          > posting them in my Fotki album under a new heading for vintage models.
                                                                                                                                          > It will include loco's, rolling stock, vehicles, and yes, even some
                                                                                                                                          > structure kits. Not all of them have stood the test of time, and some
                                                                                                                                          > are just static background items or stored on dusty shelves somewhere.

                                                                                                                                          (text bobbitted)




                                                                                                                                          __________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                          Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                          Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                                                                                                          http://mail.yahoo.com

                                                                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1835 From: Mike Sloane Date: 12/23/2006
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Some images of my stuff
                                                                                                                                          As promised in a previous post, I have taken some images of much of my
                                                                                                                                          vintage pieces and posted them on my Fotki site. Feel free to comment if
                                                                                                                                          I made any errors in my captions - memories fade with time. Please send
                                                                                                                                          the comments to me directly or post them here.

                                                                                                                                          <http://public.fotki.com/mikesloane/vintage-model-rr/>

                                                                                                                                          Have a great Holiday, and may your stocking be filled with treasures
                                                                                                                                          from the past. And if not treasures, then memories of past treasures.

                                                                                                                                          Mike
                                                                                                                                          --
                                                                                                                                          Mike Sloane
                                                                                                                                          Allamuchy NJ
                                                                                                                                          <mikesloane@...>
                                                                                                                                          Website: <www.geocities.com/mikesloane>
                                                                                                                                          Images: <www.fotki.com/mikesloane>

                                                                                                                                          A good end cannot sanctify evil means; nor must we ever do evil,
                                                                                                                                          that good may come of it.
                                                                                                                                          -William Penn, Quaker, founder of Pennsylvania (1644-1718)
                                                                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1836 From: tomvanhoy Date: 12/23/2006
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Box cab re-united
                                                                                                                                          Thanks to all the members who posted on the boxcab I found back in
                                                                                                                                          November! After pics of the original were posted I was attending the
                                                                                                                                          monthly Chicago swap meet in early December and found the trailer in a
                                                                                                                                          batch of beat up freight cars. They had been seperated by the dealer
                                                                                                                                          and since I didn't know what to look for the trailer was destined to
                                                                                                                                          be an orphan. Now to repaint and refurbish, it is definitely do-able.
                                                                                                                                          Thanks and Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all!
                                                                                                                                          Tom
                                                                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1837 From: Glenn Date: 12/23/2006
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Box cab re-united
                                                                                                                                          That's a problem with some dealers--they separate things that belong together--like loco and tender--particularly some on eBay--It's one thing to part-out a set, but quite another to separate 2 parts of what was originally intended to be a single (although 2-part) model. gj
                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                          From: tomvanhoy
                                                                                                                                          Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 4:17 PM
                                                                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Box cab re-united

                                                                                                                                          Thanks to all the members who posted on the boxcab I found back in
                                                                                                                                          November! After pics of the original were posted I was attending the
                                                                                                                                          monthly Chicago swap meet in early December and found the trailer in a
                                                                                                                                          batch of beat up freight cars. They had been seperated by the dealer
                                                                                                                                          and since I didn't know what to look for the trailer was destined to
                                                                                                                                          be an orphan. Now to repaint and refurbish, it is definitely do-able.
                                                                                                                                          Thanks and Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all!
                                                                                                                                          Tom

                                                                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1838 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/23/2006
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Some images of my stuff
                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                          From: "Mike Sloane" <mikesloane@...>
                                                                                                                                          To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                          Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 5:56 PM
                                                                                                                                          Subject: [vintageHO] Some images of my stuff


                                                                                                                                          > As promised in a previous post, I have taken some images of much of my
                                                                                                                                          > vintage pieces and posted them on my Fotki site. Feel free to comment if
                                                                                                                                          > I made any errors in my captions - memories fade with time. Please send
                                                                                                                                          > the comments to me directly or post them here.
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > <http://public.fotki.com/mikesloane/vintage-model-rr/>
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Have a great Holiday, and may your stocking be filled with treasures
                                                                                                                                          > from the past. And if not treasures, then memories of past treasures.
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Mike
                                                                                                                                          > --
                                                                                                                                          > Mike Sloane

                                                                                                                                          Great shots. Please feel free to create an album here too if you wish.

                                                                                                                                          You did mention comments and corrections, if I may be so bold......

                                                                                                                                          Picture 5, that's a Revell, not an Atlas.
                                                                                                                                          Picture 6, half right, it's now available from Bowser but was originally
                                                                                                                                          Cary
                                                                                                                                          Picture 15, that's an MDC
                                                                                                                                          Picture 16, the tractor is Varney
                                                                                                                                          Picture 17, I think that is the set from "odo's" that were copied from the
                                                                                                                                          original Model Hobbies, The original had the rubber tires separate.
                                                                                                                                          Picture 20, the blue-grey Desoto is an Anglopla "Minicar", made in spain,
                                                                                                                                          sold by AHM. The "Eko" line sold today are poor reproductions of this line.
                                                                                                                                          Picture 21, Athearn also had a Cadillac sedan, the two models were made for
                                                                                                                                          the "Auto loader" car. Incidentally, Athearn has re-issued these at about a
                                                                                                                                          gazillion times highr price today. Is that a vintage Wiking Chevy in the
                                                                                                                                          background or the newer Alloy forms?
                                                                                                                                          Picture 22, Gee, I thought I was the only one on the list with an original
                                                                                                                                          Varney Ostuco open end gondola :-(


                                                                                                                                          Again, you have some very nice pieces there.

                                                                                                                                          Don

                                                                                                                                          don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                                                          http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                                                          Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                                          Co-moderator
                                                                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1839 From: Dave Slater Date: 12/23/2006
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Slightly off topic..
                                                                                                                                          Whilwe not "HO" this is certainly vintage, a short video clip from the
                                                                                                                                          Lionel Railroad club show..
                                                                                                                                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVkYC6nxNNg&NR
                                                                                                                                          Some fantastic stuff there, the huge bridge especially...
                                                                                                                                          Dave S.
                                                                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1840 From: Mike Sloane Date: 12/24/2006
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Some images of my stuff
                                                                                                                                          Don Dellmann wrote:
                                                                                                                                          >

                                                                                                                                          > > As promised in a previous post, I have taken some images of much of my
                                                                                                                                          > > vintage pieces and posted them on my Fotki site. Feel free to comment if
                                                                                                                                          > > I made any errors in my captions - memories fade with time. Please send
                                                                                                                                          > > the comments to me directly or post them here.
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > > <http://public.fotki.com/mikesloane/vintage-model-rr/
                                                                                                                                          > <http://public.fotki.com/mikesloane/vintage-model-rr/>>
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > > Have a great Holiday, and may your stocking be filled with treasures
                                                                                                                                          > > from the past. And if not treasures, then memories of past treasures.
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > > Mike
                                                                                                                                          > > --
                                                                                                                                          > > Mike Sloane
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Great shots. Please feel free to create an album here too if you wish.
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > You did mention comments and corrections, if I may be so bold......
                                                                                                                                          Thanks, Don! I will make those corrections today. (As Dan Quayle once
                                                                                                                                          said: "a mind is a terrible thing to lose".)

                                                                                                                                          The reason that I didn't upload the images to the group's "photos"
                                                                                                                                          section is to avoid using up your limited space. Maybe I will assemble a
                                                                                                                                          few of the "choice" pieces and upload them.
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Picture 5, that's a Revell, not an Atlas.
                                                                                                                                          Absolutely! I also have the Atlas passenger station on another part of
                                                                                                                                          the layout and will get an image of it today. I also have the restaurant
                                                                                                                                          version of the Atlas station, but I can't recall when that was issued.

                                                                                                                                          > Picture 6, half right, it's now available from Bowser but was originally
                                                                                                                                          > Cary
                                                                                                                                          That is the name I couldn't think of. I also have a Cary F3 body that I
                                                                                                                                          never got around to installing on a chassis - it came with no "chicken
                                                                                                                                          wire" grilles on the sides, and I never found anything that looked good
                                                                                                                                          enough to do the job.

                                                                                                                                          > Picture 15, that's an MDC
                                                                                                                                          Oops! Yes, you are right again.

                                                                                                                                          > Picture 16, the tractor is Varney
                                                                                                                                          Good to know. It actually represents no prototype, although it comes
                                                                                                                                          close to one of the early Massey Fergusons or maybe a Farmall B. The
                                                                                                                                          single wheel in the front was relatively rare. (My other hobby is
                                                                                                                                          antique farm tractors.)

                                                                                                                                          > Picture 17, I think that is the set from "odo's" that were copied from the
                                                                                                                                          > original Model Hobbies, The original had the rubber tires separate.
                                                                                                                                          That could very well be. I seem to recall that they came from a mail
                                                                                                                                          order hobby shop in the Maryland area.

                                                                                                                                          > Picture 20, the blue-grey Desoto is an Anglopla "Minicar", made in spain,
                                                                                                                                          > sold by AHM. The "Eko" line sold today are poor reproductions of this line.
                                                                                                                                          Including that one was a mistake, and I will replace that image. I also
                                                                                                                                          have a Jeep truck, Willys station wagon, and a couple of other pieces
                                                                                                                                          from that line, but I don't consider them truly "vintage" - if the
                                                                                                                                          cutoff is about 1970. What do you guys use for a guide?

                                                                                                                                          > Picture 21, Athearn also had a Cadillac sedan, the two models were made for
                                                                                                                                          > the "Auto loader" car.
                                                                                                                                          I don't recall ever seeing the Caddy, but I bought half a dozen of the
                                                                                                                                          station wagons. They are really pretty crude, and I only use them where
                                                                                                                                          they can't be seen close up.

                                                                                                                                          > Incidentally, Athearn has re-issued these at about a
                                                                                                                                          > gazillion times highr price today.
                                                                                                                                          What else is new?

                                                                                                                                          > Is that a vintage Wiking Chevy in the
                                                                                                                                          > background or the newer Alloy forms?
                                                                                                                                          I believe that is an Alloy Forms model, probably from the '70s - not
                                                                                                                                          really "vintage" in my thinking. :-)

                                                                                                                                          > Picture 22, Gee, I thought I was the only one on the list with an original
                                                                                                                                          > Varney Ostuco open end gondola :-(
                                                                                                                                          In retrospect, I wish I hadn't done such a poor job of "weathering", but
                                                                                                                                          it is far too late to worry about it now.
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Again, you have some very nice pieces there.
                                                                                                                                          Thanks!

                                                                                                                                          Mike
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Don
                                                                                                                                          >

                                                                                                                                          --
                                                                                                                                          Mike Sloane
                                                                                                                                          Allamuchy NJ
                                                                                                                                          <mikesloane@...>
                                                                                                                                          Website: <www.geocities.com/mikesloane>
                                                                                                                                          Images: <www.fotki.com/mikesloane>

                                                                                                                                          A good end cannot sanctify evil means; nor must we ever do evil,
                                                                                                                                          that good may come of it.
                                                                                                                                          -William Penn, Quaker, founder of Pennsylvania (1644-1718)
                                                                                                                                          Group: vintageHO Message: 1841 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/24/2006
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Some images of my stuff
                                                                                                                                          Attachments :
                                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                            From: "Mike Sloane" <mikesloane@...>
                                                                                                                                            To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                            Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2006 5:11 AM
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Some images of my stuff


                                                                                                                                            (Text bobbitted with a dull x-acto knife)

                                                                                                                                            >> You did mention comments and corrections, if I may be so bold......
                                                                                                                                            > Thanks, Don! I will make those corrections today. (As Dan Quayle once
                                                                                                                                            > said: "a mind is a terrible thing to lose".)
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > The reason that I didn't upload the images to the group's "photos"
                                                                                                                                            > section is to avoid using up your limited space. Maybe I will assemble a
                                                                                                                                            > few of the "choice" pieces and upload them.

                                                                                                                                            The other alternative is put a link to the Fotki pages in the links section.
                                                                                                                                            The only reason I say this is down the line, new members who join wouldn't
                                                                                                                                            necessarily see this thread.

                                                                                                                                            >> Picture 16, the tractor is Varney
                                                                                                                                            > Good to know. It actually represents no prototype, although it comes
                                                                                                                                            > close to one of the early Massey Fergusons or maybe a Farmall B. The
                                                                                                                                            > single wheel in the front was relatively rare. (My other hobby is
                                                                                                                                            > antique farm tractors.)

                                                                                                                                            I suspect the only reason they have the single front wheel is tooling
                                                                                                                                            considerations when they made the die to cast the model. Varney originally
                                                                                                                                            did a tractor in plaster and I think there they had two front tire.

                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >> Picture 17, I think that is the set from "odo's" that were copied from
                                                                                                                                            >> the
                                                                                                                                            >> original Model Hobbies, The original had the rubber tires separate.
                                                                                                                                            > That could very well be. I seem to recall that they came from a mail
                                                                                                                                            > order hobby shop in the Maryland area.

                                                                                                                                            I have the ad somewhere, I'll see if I can find it.
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >> Picture 20, the blue-grey Desoto is an Anglopla "Minicar", made in spain,
                                                                                                                                            >> sold by AHM. The "Eko" line sold today are poor reproductions of this
                                                                                                                                            >> line.
                                                                                                                                            > Including that one was a mistake, and I will replace that image. I also
                                                                                                                                            > have a Jeep truck, Willys station wagon, and a couple of other pieces
                                                                                                                                            > from that line, but I don't consider them truly "vintage" - if the
                                                                                                                                            > cutoff is about 1970. What do you guys use for a guide?
                                                                                                                                            >

                                                                                                                                            The AHM/Anglopla line was from the early 60's, I only have a few, a 1960 or
                                                                                                                                            so Ford Galaxy that's too warped to use, a nice Jaguar Mark 9 and an
                                                                                                                                            Alfa-Romeo. I've been in an off again on again relationship with a guy for
                                                                                                                                            a couple years to get my hands on one of the Edsels.

                                                                                                                                            There's really no firm "cut-off" date for the list. When I conceived the
                                                                                                                                            group I was thinking early 1960's, but as more and more classic HO is
                                                                                                                                            dissappearing in favor of RTR from China, some of the newer pieces are
                                                                                                                                            becoming collectable. In my albums I included a Quality Craft MKT auto car
                                                                                                                                            from 1974 just because no-one makes the old style Craftsman kits any more,
                                                                                                                                            and when I finish paint & decals I may put up my few MHP passenger cars from
                                                                                                                                            the early 70's for the same reason.

                                                                                                                                            A couple weeks ago over in my "MRPics" yahoo list I posted a few pictures
                                                                                                                                            where I gathered together my "vintage" pieces and staged them all in the
                                                                                                                                            yard, as a criteria I eliminated anything that I couln't "prove" was at
                                                                                                                                            least 40 years old. (a couple of of them are reposted below)

                                                                                                                                            From my own point of view for example, an Athearn box car with separate
                                                                                                                                            lower door guides and screwed on coupler pocket covers is vintage, one with
                                                                                                                                            "claws" on the door and snap-on covers is not. A Tyco-Mantua that has
                                                                                                                                            trucks with sheet metal bolsters that are screwed on is probably "vintage",
                                                                                                                                            plastic bolsters is not, and snap in trucks are anathema! Original Revell
                                                                                                                                            1961 Chryslers are vinatge,
                                                                                                                                            Heljan reissues are not, Angloplas are vintage, Ekos are not.

                                                                                                                                            >> Picture 21, Athearn also had a Cadillac sedan, the two models were made
                                                                                                                                            >> for
                                                                                                                                            >> the "Auto loader" car.
                                                                                                                                            > I don't recall ever seeing the Caddy, but I bought half a dozen of the
                                                                                                                                            > station wagons. They are really pretty crude, and I only use them where
                                                                                                                                            > they can't be seen close up.
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >> Incidentally, Athearn has re-issued these at about a
                                                                                                                                            >> gazillion times highr price today.
                                                                                                                                            > What else is new?
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >> Is that a vintage Wiking Chevy in the
                                                                                                                                            >> background or the newer Alloy forms?
                                                                                                                                            > I believe that is an Alloy Forms model, probably from the '70s - not
                                                                                                                                            > really "vintage" in my thinking. :-)

                                                                                                                                            I was suprised, I went to Walthers yesterday and saw the Alloy Forms still
                                                                                                                                            in the catalog. I was tempted to pick up a couple more, but got some
                                                                                                                                            Mini-metals semi trailers and a White tractor instead. (I really just went
                                                                                                                                            in for a bottle of Floquil Tuscan and a pack of Kadee No. 4's so I could
                                                                                                                                            finish the last of three MDC Metals I got a week or so ago, but I had to
                                                                                                                                            spend $25 to get a punch in my preferred customer card, and one thing lead
                                                                                                                                            to another)
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >> Picture 22, Gee, I thought I was the only one on the list with an
                                                                                                                                            >> original
                                                                                                                                            >> Varney Ostuco open end gondola :-(
                                                                                                                                            > In retrospect, I wish I hadn't done such a poor job of "weathering", but
                                                                                                                                            > it is far too late to worry about it now.

                                                                                                                                            The main focus of this list is on actually OPERATING vintage equipment.
                                                                                                                                            Many of my pieces have new trucks and/or wheelsets, and most have kadees
                                                                                                                                            just to bring them up to my operating standards (free rolling metal wheeled
                                                                                                                                            trucks and kadee couplers, no clones, although there are some with Kadee K
                                                                                                                                            series mechanicals that I left on, and at least one of my Varney cabeese
                                                                                                                                            still has MDC mechanical knuckles, they will couple to Kadees).

                                                                                                                                            Weathering is part of operating. I'm leaving mine pristeen just because is
                                                                                                                                            is so rare, but if it had been weathered when I got it I would still
                                                                                                                                            treasure it. I'm going to be repainting my HObbyline H-10-44 into my own
                                                                                                                                            Milwaukee Northern colors (with the blessings of the HObbyline guru on the
                                                                                                                                            list), but on the other hand I'm leaving my Athearn GN GP-9 on the Hobbytown
                                                                                                                                            chassis in GN paint just because it is hard to find. One of my Varney
                                                                                                                                            single sheathed boxcars is running with doors from a Tichy USRA box car kit
                                                                                                                                            because that's what I had that would fit to replace the doors that were
                                                                                                                                            missing. Of the three MDC cars I got last week, the NP single sheathed box
                                                                                                                                            was missing a door. It's now running with the MDC flat plate door on one
                                                                                                                                            side and a silver streak wood door on the other (which I'm sure is
                                                                                                                                            prototypical, at some time a car with wood doors may very well have had just
                                                                                                                                            one replaced due to damage). A lot of the cars need repairs/restoration
                                                                                                                                            when I get them, I don't try to "blue print", I do what I can to get them
                                                                                                                                            looking halfway decent and running again. My layout is very "eclectic".
                                                                                                                                            (athough
                                                                                                                                            I do try to keep the "era" modeled to 1961 or earlier) You will often find
                                                                                                                                            a cardstock and wood box car from the 1940's locking knuckles with a P2K
                                                                                                                                            boxcar,
                                                                                                                                            or an Athearn metal coupled to an Accurail, I don't car, I just love to run
                                                                                                                                            'em.

                                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                                            >> Again, you have some very nice pieces there.
                                                                                                                                            > Thanks!

                                                                                                                                            You're welcome

                                                                                                                                            Don

                                                                                                                                            don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                                                            http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                                                            Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                                            Co-moderator
                                                                                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1842 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/24/2006
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Happy Holidays
                                                                                                                                            Merry Christmas and Happy New year to all my friends here (and a belated
                                                                                                                                            Happy Hannukah).

                                                                                                                                            I hope the New year brings all the best to you and yours.

                                                                                                                                            Don

                                                                                                                                            don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                                                            http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                                                            Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                                            Co-moderator
                                                                                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1843 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 12/24/2006
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Happy Holidays - Merry Christmas
                                                                                                                                            Merry Christmas to all from dreary Erieville, NY.
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Hey I for one am thankful fo rthe mild weather we have been having.
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Fred Hultber(resident etching wizard, Fotocut)

                                                                                                                                            Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            Merry Christmas and Happy New year to all my friends here (and a belated
                                                                                                                                            Happy Hannukah).

                                                                                                                                            I hope the New year brings all the best to you and yours.

                                                                                                                                            Don

                                                                                                                                            don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                                                            http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                                                            Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
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                                                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1844 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 12/24/2006
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Some images of my stuff

                                                                                                                                            Mike-nice collection!  Regarding the Alco switcher (Bowser body on Athearn mechanism): the body was made by Cary ; Bowser bought Cary I believe in 1988, and the bodies are still available from Bowser.  Each of the locomotives you have pictured, you can find parts for and restore to pretty good operating condition.  And each of them can be made to run pretty good (not as good as an Atlas or Proto 2000, but here you are talking a different league of performance/technology)-and enjoy the treasures of your past.  Happy railroading!!   Regards,  JerryG.

                                                                                                                                             


                                                                                                                                            From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Mike Sloane
                                                                                                                                            Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 5:57 PM
                                                                                                                                            To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            Subject: [vintageHO] Some images of my stuff

                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                            As promised in a previous post, I have taken some images of much of my
                                                                                                                                            vintage pieces and posted them on my Fotki site. Feel free to comment if
                                                                                                                                            I made any errors in my captions - memories fade with time. Please send
                                                                                                                                            the comments to me directly or post them here.

                                                                                                                                            <http://public. fotki.com/ mikesloane/ vintage-model- rr/>

                                                                                                                                            Have a great Holiday , and may your stocking be filled with treasures
                                                                                                                                            from the past. And if not treasures, then memories of past treasures.

                                                                                                                                            Mike
                                                                                                                                            --
                                                                                                                                            Mike Sloane
                                                                                                                                            Allamuchy NJ
                                                                                                                                            <mikesloane@verizon. net>
                                                                                                                                            Website: <www.geocities. com/mikesloane>
                                                                                                                                            Images: <www.fotki.com/ mikesloane>

                                                                                                                                            A good end cannot sanctify evil means; nor must we ever do evil,
                                                                                                                                            that good may come of it.
                                                                                                                                            -William Penn, Quaker, founder of Pennsylvania (1644-1718)

                                                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1845 From: Rick Jones Date: 12/24/2006
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Some images of my stuff
                                                                                                                                            Don Dellmann wrote:
                                                                                                                                            > In my albums I included a Quality Craft MKT auto car
                                                                                                                                            > from 1974 just because no-one makes the old style Craftsman kits any more,

                                                                                                                                            Not quite true, though craftsman kits are becoming quite rare these
                                                                                                                                            days. Silver Streak kits are still available from Ye Olde Huff N Puff
                                                                                                                                            http://www.yeoldehuffnpuff.com/ Taurus kits are owned by another
                                                                                                                                            company that includes several other craftsman lines, but I can't recall
                                                                                                                                            the manufacturer now. You really have to know where to search to find
                                                                                                                                            the good stuff nowadays.

                                                                                                                                            --

                                                                                                                                            Rick Jones

                                                                                                                                            The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad
                                                                                                                                            http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/

                                                                                                                                            How is it that we put men on the moon before we figured out it
                                                                                                                                            would be a good idea to put wheels on luggage?
                                                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1846 From: Mike Sloane Date: 12/24/2006
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Some images of my stuff
                                                                                                                                            I made the corrections to the captions on my images and added the URL to
                                                                                                                                            the "links" section of the group site.
                                                                                                                                            <http://public.fotki.com/mikesloane/vintage-model-rr/>

                                                                                                                                            I would have added more images, but my digital camera is almost as old
                                                                                                                                            as some of my models, and it is starting to give me problems. It is an
                                                                                                                                            "ancient" Sony Mavica that uses diskettes and an L-Ion battery. I am
                                                                                                                                            getting something like 90% failure rate on old diskettes that I have
                                                                                                                                            been hoarding for 15 years, and the battery seem to only last minutes,
                                                                                                                                            when it used to go for a couple of hours between re-charging. I guess I
                                                                                                                                            know what I will be asking Santa for next year, if not sooner.

                                                                                                                                            Mike

                                                                                                                                            Don Dellmann wrote:
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >

                                                                                                                                            > > The reason that I didn't upload the images to the group's "photos"
                                                                                                                                            > > section is to avoid using up your limited space. Maybe I will assemble a
                                                                                                                                            > > few of the "choice" pieces and upload them.
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > The other alternative is put a link to the Fotki pages in the links section.
                                                                                                                                            > The only reason I say this is down the line, new members who join wouldn't
                                                                                                                                            > necessarily see this thread.
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            <snip>
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > The main focus of this list is on actually OPERATING vintage equipment.
                                                                                                                                            > Many of my pieces have new trucks and/or wheelsets, and most have kadees
                                                                                                                                            > just to bring them up to my operating standards (free rolling metal wheeled
                                                                                                                                            > trucks and kadee couplers, no clones, although there are some with Kadee K
                                                                                                                                            > series mechanicals that I left on, and at least one of my Varney cabeese
                                                                                                                                            > still has MDC mechanical knuckles, they will couple to Kadees).
                                                                                                                                            >

                                                                                                                                            --
                                                                                                                                            Mike Sloane
                                                                                                                                            Allamuchy NJ
                                                                                                                                            <mikesloane@...>
                                                                                                                                            Website: <www.geocities.com/mikesloane>
                                                                                                                                            Images: <www.fotki.com/mikesloane>

                                                                                                                                            A good end cannot sanctify evil means; nor must we ever do evil,
                                                                                                                                            that good may come of it.
                                                                                                                                            -William Penn, Quaker, founder of Pennsylvania (1644-1718)
                                                                                                                                            Group: vintageHO Message: 1847 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/24/2006
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Some images of my stuff
                                                                                                                                            Attachments :
                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                              From: "Mike Sloane" <mikesloane@...>
                                                                                                                                              To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                              Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2006 5:00 PM
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Some images of my stuff


                                                                                                                                              >I made the corrections to the captions on my images and added the URL to
                                                                                                                                              > the "links" section of the group site.
                                                                                                                                              > <http://public.fotki.com/mikesloane/vintage-model-rr/>
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > I would have added more images, but my digital camera is almost as old
                                                                                                                                              > as some of my models, and it is starting to give me problems. It is an
                                                                                                                                              > "ancient" Sony Mavica that uses diskettes and an L-Ion battery. I am
                                                                                                                                              > getting something like 90% failure rate on old diskettes that I have
                                                                                                                                              > been hoarding for 15 years, and the battery seem to only last minutes,
                                                                                                                                              > when it used to go for a couple of hours between re-charging. I guess I
                                                                                                                                              > know what I will be asking Santa for next year, if not sooner.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > Mike

                                                                                                                                              If price is a problem, the Sony "Cyber shot" line is cheap, this picture was
                                                                                                                                              taken with a camera that was under two hundred bucks at best buy.
                                                                                                                                              It's a 4.1 megapixel, I usually shoot a 1 meg resolution (as this picture
                                                                                                                                              was before I shrunk it) and at that the internal memory holds about 50 pics.
                                                                                                                                              It doesn't need any software, saves the pics a .jpg files, and when pluged
                                                                                                                                              into the USB port the 'puter reads the memory as another drive.

                                                                                                                                              Don

                                                                                                                                              don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                                                              http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                                                              Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                                              Co-moderator
                                                                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1848 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 12/25/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Some images of my stuff - to Mike
                                                                                                                                              Hi Mike - I know this may seem off-topic, but I also have an old SONY MD-73 and have had little trouble with it. Diskettes are available at garage sales and even Wal*Mart(if it comes to that) and are relatively cheap. I throw them out at the first sign of trouble - but first all my pics are saved to my computer. Keep them cool and dry and away from dust(a big problem here as I heat with coal) and few problems will ensue.
                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                              Check eBay for replacememnt batteries. There are two grades available, with different power ratings.
                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                              Keep up the good work, lad!
                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                              Merry Christmas to all and thanks to Don for keeping this group si nicely!
                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                              Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut)

                                                                                                                                              Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                              From: "Mike Sloane"
                                                                                                                                              To:
                                                                                                                                              Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2006 5:00 PM
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Some images of my stuff


                                                                                                                                              >I made the corrections to the captions on my images and added the URL to
                                                                                                                                              > the "links" section of the group site.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > I would have added more images, but my digital camera is almost as old
                                                                                                                                              > as some of my models, and it is starting to give me problems. It is an
                                                                                                                                              > "ancient" Sony Mavica that uses diskettes and an L-Ion battery. I am
                                                                                                                                              > getting something like 90% failure rate on old diskettes that I have
                                                                                                                                              > been hoarding for 15 years, and the battery seem to only last minutes,
                                                                                                                                              > when it used to go for a couple of hours between re-charging. I guess I
                                                                                                                                              > know what I will be asking Santa for next year, if not sooner.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > Mike

                                                                                                                                              If price is a problem, the Sony "Cyber shot" line is cheap, this picture was
                                                                                                                                              taken with a camera that was under two hundred bucks at best buy.
                                                                                                                                              It's a 4.1 megapixel, I usually shoot a 1 meg resolution (as this picture
                                                                                                                                              was before I shrunk it) and at that the internal memory holds about 50 pics.
                                                                                                                                              It doesn't need any software, saves the pics a .jpg files, and when pluged
                                                                                                                                              into the USB port the 'puter reads the memory as another drive.

                                                                                                                                              Don

                                                                                                                                              don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                                                              http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                                                              Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                                              Co-moderator
                                                                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY



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                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1849 From: William Nielsen Date: 12/25/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Some images of my stuff
                                                                                                                                              Mike,
                                                                                                                                              Thanks for posting the pix. Your photo #37 "Unknown
                                                                                                                                              Enginehouse" reminds me of aa identical one I had when I was
                                                                                                                                              a kid, made in England by Airfix. It came in a plastic bag with a
                                                                                                                                              paper header claiming it was for OO/HO model trains and as I
                                                                                                                                              remember , sold for about $2.50, when most other plastic kits at
                                                                                                                                              the time were going for 98 cents. I remember wishing that I
                                                                                                                                              could have afforded another kit, since it was modular, and one kit
                                                                                                                                              was too short for any of my locos except the yellow Athearn
                                                                                                                                              Hustler, which I bought when they were first announced in Model
                                                                                                                                              Trains Magazine (or was it Model Railroader?) in the mid 50's for
                                                                                                                                              $3.95. Times have sure changed!

                                                                                                                                              Regards,
                                                                                                                                              Bill Nielsen
                                                                                                                                              Oakland Park, FL


                                                                                                                                              --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Sloane
                                                                                                                                              <mikesloane@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > I made the corrections to the captions on my images and
                                                                                                                                              added the URL to
                                                                                                                                              > the "links" section of the group site.
                                                                                                                                              > <http://public.fotki.com/mikesloane/vintage-model-rr/>
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1850 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 12/25/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Some images of my stuff - to Mike
                                                                                                                                              True, off topic but probably something that affects many on the list so I'll toss in two cents.
                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                              I do software development where data retention of valuable company assets is critical.  Diskettes aren't even allowed any more.  And when I did use them, I always used fresh ones and at the first sign of trouble folded it in half so there was no chance it might get re-used.

                                                                                                                                              You can look up a lot on data retention of media.  However, the news is all bad.  I have seen life span estimates as low as 7 years for diskettes and as low as 20 for CD's.  If you have anything important on floppies, you might want to transfer it now.  If you have anything on CD's, plan to refresh it somehow.  Those pictures of Aunt Jennie or your trip to the NMRA convention might well be gone in twenty years.  

                                                                                                                                              Here is one reference that is actually a little optimistic.

                                                                                                                                              http://www.vintage.org/content.php?id=004#2

                                                                                                                                              Here is some text from it...
                                                                                                                                              "Media Preservation
                                                                                                                                              Another concern for us is the lifespan of data storage media, both from a practical point of view and a historical perspective. 
                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                              Data stored on magnetic mediums such as floppy disk or tape will eventually decay and become unreadable.  Estimates for the longevity of data stored on floppy disk range from 15-202 years, which means a lot of the data stored on floppy disks from the 80s is theoretically beginning to sour.  Even CDs aren't forever.  Estimates gleaned from accelerated testing show that data stored on a CD-ROM will only last for about 100 years3.  For CD-R (recordable) and CD-RW (read/write) technologies, the data retention estimates are much lower.
                                                                                                                                              The only good long-term media is tried and true paper, which we know can last for hundreds if not thousands of years when properly stored."
                                                                                                                                              Yes, believe it or not, paper is actually superior although certainly not practical in most cases.  So it is important to "refresh" backed up data onto fresh media or whatever is the newest best thing.  For photos, especially important and irreplaceable family photos, I think it is wise to get the best archival-quality prints you can for long term storage.
                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                              It is interesting to think that most of the data stored before, say, 1990, will be mostly all gone soon unless efforts are made to salvage it.
                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                              A company that wrote backup software actually wrote this in their introduction in their manual to underscore the point (paraphrased) "When planning a backup regimen, consider the impact of losing all your hard disk data and, along with it, losing your will to live."  Of course, they were trying to be funny.  Or were they?
                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                              Chuck Kinzer

                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                              From: Fred Hultberg
                                                                                                                                              To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                              Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 6:51 AM
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Some images of my stuff - to Mike


                                                                                                                                              Hi Mike - I know this may seem off-topic, but I also have an old SONY MD-73 and have had little trouble with it. Diskettes are available at garage sales and even Wal*Mart(if it comes to that) and are relatively cheap. I throw them out at the first sign of trouble - but first all my pics are saved to my computer. Keep them cool and dry and away from dust(a big problem here as I heat with coal) and few problems will ensue.

                                                                                                                                              Check eBay for replacememnt batteries. There are two grades available, with different power ratings.

                                                                                                                                              Keep up the good work, lad!

                                                                                                                                              Merry Christmas to all and thanks to Don for keeping this group si nicely!

                                                                                                                                              Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut)

                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1851 From: John Hagen Date: 12/25/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Happy Holidays
                                                                                                                                              Wishing you all Happy Holidays and a very Merry Christmas.

                                                                                                                                              John Hagen
                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1852 From: John Hagen Date: 12/25/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Why I can't view photos
                                                                                                                                              You guys keep attaching photos to your posts, several that I would
                                                                                                                                              really like to see. However, all I get is a notice in a box that there
                                                                                                                                              was an attachment that was not stored. Below is a sample from message
                                                                                                                                              #1824 by Ray Hobin (minus the box) of what I get. What am I doing wrong?

                                                                                                                                              Attachment(not stored)
                                                                                                                                              EglinAFB#1.jpg
                                                                                                                                              Type:
                                                                                                                                              image/jpeg

                                                                                                                                              I haven't run into this before as this is the only group I belong to
                                                                                                                                              that attaches photos to their messages.


                                                                                                                                              John Hagen
                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1853 From: John Hagen Date: 12/25/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Can't view photos
                                                                                                                                              Just as after I sent the last message I think I realized what the
                                                                                                                                              problem is. Due to the number of groups I belong to and the need to be
                                                                                                                                              able to get through my email in something less than an hour or more
                                                                                                                                              (which I still often have problems doing), I do not have anything other
                                                                                                                                              than special notices sent to me. I do check "My Groups" at least once a
                                                                                                                                              day for groups that show any sort of activity (new messages, files
                                                                                                                                              and/or photos), except in rare instances when I do not have access to
                                                                                                                                              my groups. I can then go to "New mMssages" and get a look at what the
                                                                                                                                              various messages are about without having to take the time to open each
                                                                                                                                              one. I'm certain we all see messages in groups that just don't interest
                                                                                                                                              us and this way it is possible to skip such posts quickly. Please
                                                                                                                                              confirm that this is (or isn't) the problem. As stated in my last
                                                                                                                                              message, of the groups I subscribe to (24), this is occurs in this
                                                                                                                                              group.
                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1854 From: Mike Sloane Date: 12/25/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Some images of my stuff
                                                                                                                                              I don't recall the prices, but neither one of the two British models was
                                                                                                                                              what we call "modular". To make the two story repair shed, I had to do a
                                                                                                                                              fair amount of cutting and fiddling.

                                                                                                                                              My Hustlers that you see in the "cow & calf" configuration
                                                                                                                                              <http://public.fotki.com/mikesloane/model_railroad/nvrr_122004_27.html>
                                                                                                                                              started out as a rubber band drive, and it was FAST!. It was so fast
                                                                                                                                              that it would regularly fly off the track when going around even large
                                                                                                                                              curves. The resulting damage left the cab of the body in rather poor
                                                                                                                                              shape, so that became the "calf" with a fabricated section over the area
                                                                                                                                              where the cab used to be. I was able to locate a brand new Hustler some
                                                                                                                                              time during the 'early '80s, equipped it with an Ernst gear drive and
                                                                                                                                              put the old modified body on it. The new body went over the old Hustler
                                                                                                                                              frame (minus the motor) and became the "cow". It is my intention to
                                                                                                                                              install a cab interior when I get a round tuit.

                                                                                                                                              Mike

                                                                                                                                              William Nielsen wrote:
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > Mike,
                                                                                                                                              > Thanks for posting the pix. Your photo #37 "Unknown
                                                                                                                                              > Enginehouse" reminds me of aa identical one I had when I was
                                                                                                                                              > a kid, made in England by Airfix. It came in a plastic bag with a
                                                                                                                                              > paper header claiming it was for OO/HO model trains and as I
                                                                                                                                              > remember , sold for about $2.50, when most other plastic kits at
                                                                                                                                              > the time were going for 98 cents. I remember wishing that I
                                                                                                                                              > could have afforded another kit, since it was modular, and one kit
                                                                                                                                              > was too short for any of my locos except the yellow Athearn
                                                                                                                                              > Hustler, which I bought when they were first announced in Model
                                                                                                                                              > Trains Magazine (or was it Model Railroader?) in the mid 50's for
                                                                                                                                              > $3.95. Times have sure changed!
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > Regards,
                                                                                                                                              > Bill Nielsen
                                                                                                                                              > Oakland Park, FL
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                                                                                                                              > Mike Sloane
                                                                                                                                              > <mikesloane@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                              > > I made the corrections to the captions on my images and
                                                                                                                                              > added the URL to
                                                                                                                                              > > the "links" section of the group site.
                                                                                                                                              > > <http://public.fotki.com/mikesloane/vintage-model-rr/
                                                                                                                                              > <http://public.fotki.com/mikesloane/vintage-model-rr/>>
                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                                                                                                                              > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                                                                                                                              > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.26/601 - Release Date: 12/24/2006 11:31 AM

                                                                                                                                              --
                                                                                                                                              Mike Sloane
                                                                                                                                              Allamuchy NJ
                                                                                                                                              <mikesloane@...>
                                                                                                                                              Website: <www.geocities.com/mikesloane>
                                                                                                                                              Images: <www.fotki.com/mikesloane>

                                                                                                                                              A good end cannot sanctify evil means; nor must we ever do evil,
                                                                                                                                              that good may come of it.
                                                                                                                                              -William Penn, Quaker, founder of Pennsylvania (1644-1718)
                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1855 From: Glenn Date: 12/25/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Why I can't view photos
                                                                                                                                              I think the programs for Yahoo are designed to remove any attachments as an anti-viral measure.  The photos have to be posted separately--don't ask me how!  It's magic!gj
                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                              From: John Hagen
                                                                                                                                              Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 12:58 PM
                                                                                                                                              Subject: [vintageHO] Why I can't view photos

                                                                                                                                              You guys keep attaching photos to your posts, several that I would
                                                                                                                                              really like to see. However, all I get is a notice in a box that there
                                                                                                                                              was an attachment that was not stored. Below is a sample from message
                                                                                                                                              #1824 by Ray Hobin (minus the box) of what I get. What am I doing wrong?

                                                                                                                                              Attachment(not stored)
                                                                                                                                              EglinAFB#1.jpg
                                                                                                                                              Type:
                                                                                                                                              image/jpeg

                                                                                                                                              I haven't run into this before as this is the only group I belong to
                                                                                                                                              that attaches photos to their messages.

                                                                                                                                              John Hagen

                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1856 From: Lennard Stewart Date: 12/25/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Why I can't view photos
                                                                                                                                              Lennard Stewart wrote:

                                                                                                                                               Yahoo will only let the attachments go thru to the ones that are set up in there group settings to get individual emails. The people that elect to get digests or anything else will not get the pics or attachments. you have to go and look at the original message in the group.
                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                              From: John Hagen
                                                                                                                                              Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 12:58 PM
                                                                                                                                              Subject: [vintageHO] Why I can't view photos

                                                                                                                                              You guys keep attaching photos to your posts, several that I would
                                                                                                                                              really like to see. However, all I get is a notice in a box that there
                                                                                                                                              was an attachment that was not stored. Below is a sample from message
                                                                                                                                              #1824 by Ray Hobin (minus the box) of what I get. What am I doing wrong?

                                                                                                                                              Attachment(not stored)
                                                                                                                                              EglinAFB#1.jpg
                                                                                                                                              Type:
                                                                                                                                              image/jpeg

                                                                                                                                              I haven't run into this before as this is the only group I belong to
                                                                                                                                              that attaches photos to their messages.

                                                                                                                                              John Hagen


                                                                                                                                              No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.27/602 - Release Date: 12/25/2006 10:19 AM

                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1857 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 12/25/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Why I can't view photos - for John Hagen
                                                                                                                                              John, perhaps you have subscribed to a "daily digest" form on this group.
                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                              If you want to see the photos, you would have to get "individual e-mails" which can be done by going to your subscription inforamtion and changing the way you receive messages here. I believe there was a time when Yahoo stored the photos, but thse days(if they existed) are gone. For previous e-mail photos, it's either too late or if one or more was/were important, you might ask the sender to re-post after you change your subscription type, or request an off-list e-mail.
                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                              I hope this helps - I do that with all the Yahoo groups to which I belong, as I like the photos.
                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                              Merry Christmas!
                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                              FreS Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut)

                                                                                                                                              Glenn <glenn476@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                              I think the programs for Yahoo are designed to remove any attachments as an anti-viral measure.  The photos have to be posted separately--don't ask me how!  It's magic!gj
                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                              From: John Hagen
                                                                                                                                              Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 12:58 PM
                                                                                                                                              Subject: [vintageHO] Why I can't view photos

                                                                                                                                              You guys keep attaching photos to your posts, several that I would
                                                                                                                                              really like to see. However, all I get is a notice in a box that there
                                                                                                                                              was an attachment that was not stored. Below is a sample from message
                                                                                                                                              #1824 by Ray Hobin (minus the box) of what I get. What am I doing wrong?

                                                                                                                                              Attachment(not stored)
                                                                                                                                              EglinAFB#1.jpg
                                                                                                                                              Type:
                                                                                                                                              image/jpeg

                                                                                                                                              I haven't run into this before as this is the only group I belong to
                                                                                                                                              that attaches photos to their messages.

                                                                                                                                              John Hagen


                                                                                                                                              __________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                              Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                              Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                                                                                                              http://mail.yahoo.com

                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1858 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/25/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Can't view photos
                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                              From: "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...>
                                                                                                                                              To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                              Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 3:16 PM
                                                                                                                                              Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Can't view photos


                                                                                                                                              > Just as after I sent the last message I think I realized what the
                                                                                                                                              > problem is. Due to the number of groups I belong to and the need to be
                                                                                                                                              > able to get through my email in something less than an hour or more
                                                                                                                                              > (which I still often have problems doing), I do not have anything other
                                                                                                                                              > than special notices sent to me. I do check "My Groups" at least once a
                                                                                                                                              > day for groups that show any sort of activity (new messages, files
                                                                                                                                              > and/or photos), except in rare instances when I do not have access to
                                                                                                                                              > my groups. I can then go to "New mMssages" and get a look at what the
                                                                                                                                              > various messages are about without having to take the time to open each
                                                                                                                                              > one. I'm certain we all see messages in groups that just don't interest
                                                                                                                                              > us and this way it is possible to skip such posts quickly. Please
                                                                                                                                              > confirm that this is (or isn't) the problem. As stated in my last
                                                                                                                                              > message, of the groups I subscribe to (24), this is occurs in this
                                                                                                                                              > group.

                                                                                                                                              You've got it. Yahoo doesn't archive the photos any more, so the only way
                                                                                                                                              to see them is to use the "daily emails" option.

                                                                                                                                              In the case of the photos I send, if it's a photo I want to archive I'll put
                                                                                                                                              it in an album, where of course anyone can go look at it. Otherwise, if the
                                                                                                                                              descrition sounds interesting, if you ask the original poster I'm sure
                                                                                                                                              they'd be happy to resend the picture to you off list.

                                                                                                                                              Don

                                                                                                                                              don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                                                              http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                                                              Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                                              Co-moderator
                                                                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1859 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/25/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Why I can't view photos
                                                                                                                                              No, the photos are there if you get "daily emails".  If you read on the web site, or get the digest mode, you won't see them because yahoo doesn't save them anymore.
                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                              Don
                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                              From: Glenn
                                                                                                                                              Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 5:04 PM
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Why I can't view photos

                                                                                                                                              I think the programs for Yahoo are designed to remove any attachments as an anti-viral measure.  The photos have to be posted separately--don't ask me how!  It's magic!gj
                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                              From: John Hagen
                                                                                                                                              Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 12:58 PM
                                                                                                                                              Subject: [vintageHO] Why I can't view photos

                                                                                                                                              You guys keep attaching photos to your posts, several that I would
                                                                                                                                              really like to see. However, all I get is a notice in a box that there
                                                                                                                                              was an attachment that was not stored. Below is a sample from message
                                                                                                                                              #1824 by Ray Hobin (minus the box) of what I get. What am I doing wrong?

                                                                                                                                              Attachment(not stored)
                                                                                                                                              EglinAFB#1.jpg
                                                                                                                                              Type:
                                                                                                                                              image/jpeg

                                                                                                                                              I haven't run into this before as this is the only group I belong to
                                                                                                                                              that attaches photos to their messages.

                                                                                                                                              John Hagen

                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1860 From: Mike Bauers Date: 12/25/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Some images of my stuff
                                                                                                                                              I would also suggest looking at the Nikon L3 at Best Buy. It's now
                                                                                                                                              about $125, has 5-megapixels, uses ordinary AA batteries, a very
                                                                                                                                              common camera memory chip, and will close focus to where a third of a
                                                                                                                                              coin will fill the field of view at crystal clarity.

                                                                                                                                              It's a camera I have had for a year and a half and pretty much love
                                                                                                                                              to use.

                                                                                                                                              Best to ya'
                                                                                                                                              Mike Bauers
                                                                                                                                              Milwaukee Wi, USA


                                                                                                                                              On Dec 24, 2006, at 10:56 PM, Don Dellmann wrote:

                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                              > From: "Mike Sloane" <mikesloane@...>
                                                                                                                                              > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                              > Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2006 5:00 PM
                                                                                                                                              > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Some images of my stuff
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              >> I made the corrections to the captions on my images and added the
                                                                                                                                              >> URL to
                                                                                                                                              >> the "links" section of the group site.
                                                                                                                                              >> <http://public.fotki.com/mikesloane/vintage-model-rr/>
                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                              >> I would have added more images, but my digital camera is almost as
                                                                                                                                              >> old
                                                                                                                                              >> as some of my models, and it is starting to give me problems. It
                                                                                                                                              >> is an
                                                                                                                                              >> "ancient" Sony Mavica that uses diskettes and an L-Ion battery. I am
                                                                                                                                              >> getting something like 90% failure rate on old diskettes that I have
                                                                                                                                              >> been hoarding for 15 years, and the battery seem to only last
                                                                                                                                              >> minutes,
                                                                                                                                              >> when it used to go for a couple of hours between re-charging. I
                                                                                                                                              >> guess I
                                                                                                                                              >> know what I will be asking Santa for next year, if not sooner.
                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                              >> Mike
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > If price is a problem, the Sony "Cyber shot" line is cheap, this
                                                                                                                                              > picture was
                                                                                                                                              > taken with a camera that was under two hundred bucks at best buy.
                                                                                                                                              > It's a 4.1 megapixel, I usually shoot a 1 meg resolution (as this
                                                                                                                                              > picture
                                                                                                                                              > was before I shrunk it) and at that the internal memory holds about
                                                                                                                                              > 50 pics.
                                                                                                                                              > It doesn't need any software, saves the pics a .jpg files, and when
                                                                                                                                              > pluged
                                                                                                                                              > into the USB port the 'puter reads the memory as another drive.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > Don
                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1861 From: michael rapp, sr Date: 12/26/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Some images of my stuff - to Mike
                                                                                                                                              Charles,  It's not too far off topic in my opinion. In 1961 (when I was born) my father started taking 8mm movies of the layout he built in my bedroom. Along with all the other movies he took they added up to about 6 hours. Remember they were 3 min a movie. I also have 3,300 photos on disc and another 5,000 waiting to be scanned. In 1986 I started getting worried about the 8mm condition and spent lots of spare time converting them to "state of the art VHS". Now it's 20 years later and on top of the 6 hours I have about another 60 hours on VHS of my sons growing up. I have started the task and the fun part is putting the train movies on YouTube! Unfortunitly you have more to worry about future generations than you do the media. Upgrading media is not going to be a top 10 on their list.
                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                              Mike Rapp

                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message ----
                                                                                                                                              From: Charles E. Kinzer <ckinzer@...>
                                                                                                                                              To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                              Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 10:46:36 AM
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Some images of my stuff - to Mike

                                                                                                                                              True, off topic but probably something that affects many on the list so I'll toss in two cents.
                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                              I do software development where data retention of valuable company assets is critical.  Diskettes aren't even allowed any more.  And when I did use them, I always used fresh ones and at the first sign of trouble folded it in half so there was no chance it might get re-used.

                                                                                                                                              You can look up a lot on data retention of media.  However, the news is all bad.  I have seen life span estimates as low as 7 years for diskettes and as low as 20 for CD's.  If you have anything important on floppies, you might want to transfer it now.  If you have anything on CD's, plan to refresh it somehow.  Those pictures of Aunt Jennie or your trip to the NMRA convention might well be gone in twenty years.  

                                                                                                                                              Here is one reference that is actually a little optimistic.

                                                                                                                                              http://www.vintage. org/content. php?id=004# 2

                                                                                                                                              Here is some text from it...
                                                                                                                                              "Media Preservation
                                                                                                                                              Another concern for us is the lifespan of data storage media, both from a practical point of view and a historical perspective. 
                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                              Data stored on magnetic mediums such as floppy disk or tape will eventually decay and become unreadable.  Estimates for the longevity of data stored on floppy disk range from 15-202 years, which means a lot of the data stored on floppy disks from the 80s is theoretically beginning to sour.  Even CDs aren't forever.  Estimates gleaned from accelerated testing show that data stored on a CD-ROM will only last for about 100 years3.  For CD-R (recordable) and CD-RW (read/write) technologies, the data retention estimates are much lower.
                                                                                                                                              The only good long-term media is tried and true paper, which we know can last for hundreds if not thousands of years when properly stored."
                                                                                                                                              Yes, believe it or not, paper is actually superior although certainly not practical in most cases.  So it is important to "refresh" backed up data onto fresh media or whatever is the newest best thing.  For photos, especially important and irreplaceable family photos, I think it is wise to get the best archival-quality prints you can for long term storage.
                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                              It is interesting to think that most of the data stored before, say, 1990, will be mostly all gone soon unless efforts are made to salvage it.
                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                              A company that wrote backup software actually wrote this in their introduction in their manual to underscore the point (paraphrased) "When planning a backup regimen, consider the impact of losing all your hard disk data and, along with it, losing your will to live."  Of course, they were trying to be funny.  Or were they?
                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                              Chuck Kinzer

                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                              From: Fred Hultberg
                                                                                                                                              To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                                                                                                              Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 6:51 AM
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Some images of my stuff - to Mike


                                                                                                                                              Hi Mike - I know this may seem off-topic, but I also have an old SONY MD-73 and have had little trouble with it. Diskettes are available at garage sales and even Wal*Mart(if it comes to that) and are relatively cheap. I throw them out at the first sign of trouble - but first all my pics are saved to my computer. Keep them cool and dry and away from dust(a big problem here as I heat with coal) and few problems will ensue.

                                                                                                                                              Check eBay for replacememnt batteries. There are two grades available, with different power ratings.

                                                                                                                                              Keep up the good work, lad!

                                                                                                                                              Merry Christmas to all and thanks to Don for keeping this group si nicely!

                                                                                                                                              Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut)



                                                                                                                                              __________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                              Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                              Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                                                                                                              http://mail.yahoo.com
                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1862 From: Andrew Emmerson Date: 12/26/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Some images of my stuff
                                                                                                                                              Amazingly the old Airfix railway kits are still made. A company called Dapol bought the tooling (http://www.dapol.co.uk/cgi-bin/dapol-direct/commerce.cgi?page=dapol00/kits.html).
                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                              It annoys many scale modellers here in Britain that 4mm items are sold as 00/H0 (and that a few true H0 items are sold as 00!).
                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                              Season's greetings,
                                                                                                                                              Andy Emmerson.
                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                              Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 2:48 PM
                                                                                                                                              Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Some images of my stuff

                                                                                                                                              Mike,
                                                                                                                                              Thanks for posting the pix. Your photo #37 "Unknown
                                                                                                                                              Enginehouse" reminds me of aa identical one I had when I was
                                                                                                                                              a kid, made in England by Airfix. It came in a plastic bag with a
                                                                                                                                              paper header claiming it was for OO/HO model trains and as I
                                                                                                                                              remember , sold for about $2.50, when most other plastic kits at
                                                                                                                                              the time were going for 98 cents. I remember wishing that I
                                                                                                                                              could have afforded another kit, since it was modular, and one kit
                                                                                                                                              was too short for any of my locos except the yellow Athearn
                                                                                                                                              Hustler, which I bought when they were first announced in Model
                                                                                                                                              Trains Magazine (or was it Model Railroader?) in the mid 50's for
                                                                                                                                              $3.95. Times have sure changed!

                                                                                                                                              Regards,
                                                                                                                                              Bill Nielsen
                                                                                                                                              Oakland Park, FL

                                                                                                                                              --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, Mike Sloane
                                                                                                                                              <mikesloane@ ...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > I made the corrections to the captions on my images and
                                                                                                                                              added the URL to
                                                                                                                                              > the "links" section of the group site.
                                                                                                                                              > <http://public. fotki.com/ mikesloane/ vintage-model- rr/>
                                                                                                                                              >

                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1863 From: Mike Sloane Date: 12/26/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Some images of my stuff
                                                                                                                                              Yes, and item "C007 - Engine shed £6.19" is still there, just like my
                                                                                                                                              old shed (that I probably paid $2 for 40 years ago)! For HO, it works
                                                                                                                                              out nicely, but I can imagine that it would be a tight fit for an OO
                                                                                                                                              engine larger than the very smallest. Thanks, Andy; I will correct my
                                                                                                                                              caption.

                                                                                                                                              Mike

                                                                                                                                              Andrew Emmerson wrote:
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > Amazingly the old Airfix railway kits are still made. A company called
                                                                                                                                              > Dapol bought the tooling
                                                                                                                                              > (http://www.dapol.co.uk/cgi-bin/dapol-direct/commerce.cgi?page=dapol00/kits.html
                                                                                                                                              > <http://www.dapol.co.uk/cgi-bin/dapol-direct/commerce.cgi?page=dapol00/kits.html>).
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > It annoys many scale modellers here in Britain that 4mm items are sold
                                                                                                                                              > as 00/H0 (and that a few true H0 items are sold as 00!).
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > Season's greetings,
                                                                                                                                              > Andy Emmerson.
                                                                                                                                              >

                                                                                                                                              --
                                                                                                                                              Mike Sloane
                                                                                                                                              Allamuchy NJ
                                                                                                                                              <mikesloane@...>
                                                                                                                                              Website: <www.geocities.com/mikesloane>
                                                                                                                                              Images: <www.fotki.com/mikesloane>

                                                                                                                                              A good end cannot sanctify evil means; nor must we ever do evil,
                                                                                                                                              that good may come of it.
                                                                                                                                              -William Penn, Quaker, founder of Pennsylvania (1644-1718)
                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1864 From: Imp Ster Date: 12/26/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: poll for new home page graphic?
                                                                                                                                              kinda miss the old Aerotrain pic for the VintageHO home page graphic.
                                                                                                                                              maybe its the background, the classic cattle pen scene.

                                                                                                                                              (also, like most semi-starving arteests, i get tired of seeing my own
                                                                                                                                              work haha)

                                                                                                                                              New Year's Resolution: stage an interesting scene composed entirely
                                                                                                                                              of great "vintageHO" pieces, incorporating adequate lighting and
                                                                                                                                              framing this time, as a special gift (bah humbug, etc) to all my pals
                                                                                                                                              @ VintageHO.

                                                                                                                                              so, heres the poll:
                                                                                                                                              following is a partial list of available Vintage engines and
                                                                                                                                              structures which can be arranged in any way.
                                                                                                                                              what is wanted are ideas on thematic elements for the final staged
                                                                                                                                              scene.
                                                                                                                                              the scenes will be sparse on vegetation as the focus will be on
                                                                                                                                              operating machines and illuminated structures of the noted era.

                                                                                                                                              AHM Docksider, no valve gear.

                                                                                                                                              Athearn Classic:
                                                                                                                                              F units A & B, PA A & B, SD-45 in chrome trucks, Geeps, SW-1500s, all
                                                                                                                                              UP livery.

                                                                                                                                              Bowser:
                                                                                                                                              4-8-4 Northern in remnants of GN blue, w/ smoke unit.
                                                                                                                                              4-6-2 Pacific, unpainted.

                                                                                                                                              Mantua:
                                                                                                                                              0-4-0 square tanker, GN blue, no light
                                                                                                                                              0-4-0 Shifter, GN blue, no light
                                                                                                                                              4-6-2 "Ten Wheeler", GN blue, citrine opera-cut gem as headlight lens.
                                                                                                                                              4-6-2 Pacific, GN blue, C/I light
                                                                                                                                              4-6-2 Pacific, original UP black, upgraded to GOW in headlight.
                                                                                                                                              4-6-4 Hudson, original NYC black, upgraded to GOW in headlight.
                                                                                                                                              (the 2-6-2 Prairies we already know and love... ahem.)

                                                                                                                                              odd brass:

                                                                                                                                              Westside 4-4-2 Atlantic, GN blue, GOW.
                                                                                                                                              Unknown (Tenshodo?) unpainted brass kit of 4-6-4 Hudson, GOW.

                                                                                                                                              available supporting cast of thousands, no really hundreds of vintage
                                                                                                                                              and classic rolling stock.

                                                                                                                                              so, lets get this poll rolling.
                                                                                                                                              hit reply, but please truncate or otherwise trim replies in the
                                                                                                                                              composition field, for the convenience of readers who are following
                                                                                                                                              re's or fwd's.

                                                                                                                                              harumph, etc.

                                                                                                                                              (cut here)

                                                                                                                                              My Favorite HO Scene Idea is:

                                                                                                                                              etc etc

                                                                                                                                              ???????

                                                                                                                                              ///

                                                                                                                                              ...
                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1865 From: Imp Ster Date: 12/26/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: re, poll for new pic (structures & vehicles)
                                                                                                                                              oops, forgot to list the available structures for the scene:

                                                                                                                                              AHM:

                                                                                                                                              "Ye Olden Coal Mine" ( HOn2 Porter and a few mine cars on the deck )
                                                                                                                                              "Ye Olden Bricke Factory" ( HOn2 can be staged nearby)
                                                                                                                                              Windmill w/ water tank and Pump house
                                                                                                                                              single-stall brick Engine House (arched windows gives a vague Euro look)
                                                                                                                                              double-stall brick ngine House (transition era, US prototype)
                                                                                                                                              Al's General Store (cloned by many, this is the original in GN blue)
                                                                                                                                              SF Painted Ladies #3 & #5 (IHC now does these)
                                                                                                                                              Brewery

                                                                                                                                              while not exactly vintage, a few (suitably painted) Woodland Scenics
                                                                                                                                              are on tap:

                                                                                                                                              Pagosa Junction Depot
                                                                                                                                              Ice House
                                                                                                                                              Corner Bar

                                                                                                                                              ..as well as a huge pile of Lensey, Early Matchbox, & such semi-
                                                                                                                                              realistic Hotwheels as are not hidiously designed or painted in
                                                                                                                                              laughably farcical schemes.
                                                                                                                                              lots of trucks, construction equiptment, farm equip etc.
                                                                                                                                              as well as a huge box of varigated lichen and many "Lifelike" trees,
                                                                                                                                              some even bearing "fruit"!

                                                                                                                                              possible scenes can be "winter snow", desert, mountainous, tropical
                                                                                                                                              (banana republic plantation slim-guage Rys) or temperate..

                                                                                                                                              ok, lets get those scene ideas now!

                                                                                                                                              ...
                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1866 From: Glenn Date: 12/26/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: poll for new home page graphic?
                                                                                                                                              Most of what you list I would barely class as vintage--as many of them have been available until recently.  Now I propose--Mantua metal line--the old mixed brass& Zamak construction--Belle of the Eighties with the brass passenger cars, 8-Ball Mogul with the freight cars with the embossed card sides over sheet metal bodies with zamak ends, Reading Pacific, Atlantic, and Consol (I still need the Atlantic) Varney F-3 in zamak, Die Cast MDC--I even have an 0-6-0 kit from 1948--when the cab was 5 pieces! Varney Aerotrain counts--I have an 8-car one with the Kemtron trucks--Bowser Pacific and Challenger with the wood tender, Thomas tank cars, Anything Silver Streak, Athearn and Varney sheet metal cars--
                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                              From: Imp Ster
                                                                                                                                              Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 2:41 PM
                                                                                                                                              Subject: [vintageHO] poll for new home page graphic?

                                                                                                                                              kinda miss the old Aerotrain pic for the VintageHO home page graphic.
                                                                                                                                              maybe its the background, the classic cattle pen scene.

                                                                                                                                              (also, like most semi-starving arteests, i get tired of seeing my own
                                                                                                                                              work haha)

                                                                                                                                              New Year's Resolution: stage an interesting scene composed entirely
                                                                                                                                              of great "vintageHO" pieces, incorporating adequate lighting and
                                                                                                                                              framing this time, as a special gift (bah humbug, etc) to all my pals
                                                                                                                                              @ VintageHO.

                                                                                                                                              so, heres the poll:
                                                                                                                                              following is a partial list of available Vintage engines and
                                                                                                                                              structures which can be arranged in any way.
                                                                                                                                              what is wanted are ideas on thematic elements for the final staged
                                                                                                                                              scene.
                                                                                                                                              the scenes will be sparse on vegetation as the focus will be on
                                                                                                                                              operating machines and illuminated structures of the noted era.

                                                                                                                                              AHM Docksider, no valve gear.

                                                                                                                                              Athearn Classic:
                                                                                                                                              F units A & B, PA A & B, SD-45 in chrome trucks, Geeps, SW-1500s, all
                                                                                                                                              UP livery.

                                                                                                                                              Bowser:
                                                                                                                                              4-8-4 Northern in remnants of GN blue, w/ smoke unit.
                                                                                                                                              4-6-2 Pacific, unpainted.

                                                                                                                                              Mantua:
                                                                                                                                              0-4-0 square tanker, GN blue, no light
                                                                                                                                              0-4-0 Shifter, GN blue, no light
                                                                                                                                              4-6-2 "Ten Wheeler", GN blue, citrine opera-cut gem as headlight lens.
                                                                                                                                              4-6-2 Pacific, GN blue, C/I light
                                                                                                                                              4-6-2 Pacific, original UP black, upgraded to GOW in headlight.
                                                                                                                                              4-6-4 Hudson, original NYC black, upgraded to GOW in headlight.
                                                                                                                                              (the 2-6-2 Prairies we already know and love... ahem.)

                                                                                                                                              odd brass:

                                                                                                                                              Westside 4-4-2 Atlantic, GN blue, GOW.
                                                                                                                                              Unknown (Tenshodo?) unpainted brass kit of 4-6-4 Hudson, GOW.

                                                                                                                                              available supporting cast of thousands, no really hundreds of vintage
                                                                                                                                              and classic rolling stock.

                                                                                                                                              so, lets get this poll rolling.
                                                                                                                                              hit reply, but please truncate or otherwise trim replies in the
                                                                                                                                              composition field, for the convenience of readers who are following
                                                                                                                                              re's or fwd's.

                                                                                                                                              harumph, etc.

                                                                                                                                              (cut here)

                                                                                                                                              My Favorite HO Scene Idea is:

                                                                                                                                              etc etc

                                                                                                                                              ???????

                                                                                                                                              ///

                                                                                                                                              ...

                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1867 From: Glenn Date: 12/26/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: poll for new home page graphic?
                                                                                                                                              Thinking about this--perhaps what I need is not "Vintage HO" but "Ancient HO" as I described in a clinic some years ago.  (I also did one on "Bronze Age models"--)
                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                              From: Glenn
                                                                                                                                              Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 4:31 PM
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [vintageHO] poll for new home page graphic?

                                                                                                                                              Most of what you list I would barely class as vintage--as many of them have been available until recently.  Now I propose--Mantua metal line--the old mixed brass& Zamak construction- -Belle of the Eighties with the brass passenger cars, 8-Ball Mogul with the freight cars with the embossed card sides over sheet metal bodies with zamak ends, Reading Pacific, Atlantic, and Consol (I still need the Atlantic) Varney F-3 in zamak, Die Cast MDC--I even have an 0-6-0 kit from 1948--when the cab was 5 pieces! Varney Aerotrain counts--I have an 8-car one with the Kemtron trucks--Bowser Pacific and Challenger with the wood tender, Thomas tank cars, Anything Silver Streak, Athearn and Varney sheet metal cars--
                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                              From: Imp Ster
                                                                                                                                              Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 2:41 PM
                                                                                                                                              Subject: [vintageHO] poll for new home page graphic?

                                                                                                                                              kinda miss the old Aerotrain pic for the VintageHO home page graphic.
                                                                                                                                              maybe its the background, the classic cattle pen scene.

                                                                                                                                              (also, like most semi-starving arteests, i get tired of seeing my own
                                                                                                                                              work haha)

                                                                                                                                              New Year's Resolution: stage an interesting scene composed entirely
                                                                                                                                              of great "vintageHO" pieces, incorporating adequate lighting and
                                                                                                                                              framing this time, as a special gift (bah humbug, etc) to all my pals
                                                                                                                                              @ VintageHO.

                                                                                                                                              so, heres the poll:
                                                                                                                                              following is a partial list of available Vintage engines and
                                                                                                                                              structures which can be arranged in any way.
                                                                                                                                              what is wanted are ideas on thematic elements for the final staged
                                                                                                                                              scene.
                                                                                                                                              the scenes will be sparse on vegetation as the focus will be on
                                                                                                                                              operating machines and illuminated structures of the noted era.

                                                                                                                                              AHM Docksider, no valve gear.

                                                                                                                                              Athearn Classic:
                                                                                                                                              F units A & B, PA A & B, SD-45 in chrome trucks, Geeps, SW-1500s, all
                                                                                                                                              UP livery.

                                                                                                                                              Bowser:
                                                                                                                                              4-8-4 Northern in remnants of GN blue, w/ smoke unit.
                                                                                                                                              4-6-2 Pacific, unpainted.

                                                                                                                                              Mantua:
                                                                                                                                              0-4-0 square tanker, GN blue, no light
                                                                                                                                              0-4-0 Shifter, GN blue, no light
                                                                                                                                              4-6-2 "Ten Wheeler", GN blue, citrine opera-cut gem as headlight lens.
                                                                                                                                              4-6-2 Pacific, GN blue, C/I light
                                                                                                                                              4-6-2 Pacific, original UP black, upgraded to GOW in headlight.
                                                                                                                                              4-6-4 Hudson, original NYC black, upgraded to GOW in headlight.
                                                                                                                                              (the 2-6-2 Prairies we already know and love... ahem.)

                                                                                                                                              odd brass:

                                                                                                                                              Westside 4-4-2 Atlantic, GN blue, GOW.
                                                                                                                                              Unknown (Tenshodo?) unpainted brass kit of 4-6-4 Hudson, GOW.

                                                                                                                                              available supporting cast of thousands, no really hundreds of vintage
                                                                                                                                              and classic rolling stock.

                                                                                                                                              so, lets get this poll rolling.
                                                                                                                                              hit reply, but please truncate or otherwise trim replies in the
                                                                                                                                              composition field, for the convenience of readers who are following
                                                                                                                                              re's or fwd's.

                                                                                                                                              harumph, etc.

                                                                                                                                              (cut here)

                                                                                                                                              My Favorite HO Scene Idea is:

                                                                                                                                              etc etc

                                                                                                                                              ???????

                                                                                                                                              ///

                                                                                                                                              ...

                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1868 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/26/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Some images of my stuff
                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                              From: "Mike Sloane" <mikesloane@...>
                                                                                                                                              To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                              Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 6:39 AM
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Some images of my stuff


                                                                                                                                              > Yes, and item "C007 - Engine shed £6.19" is still there, just like my
                                                                                                                                              > old shed (that I probably paid $2 for 40 years ago)! For HO, it works
                                                                                                                                              > out nicely, but I can imagine that it would be a tight fit for an OO
                                                                                                                                              > engine larger than the very smallest. Thanks, Andy; I will correct my
                                                                                                                                              > caption.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > Mike
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > Andrew Emmerson wrote:
                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                              >> Amazingly the old Airfix railway kits are still made. A company called
                                                                                                                                              >> Dapol bought the tooling
                                                                                                                                              >> (http://www.dapol.co.uk/cgi-bin/dapol-direct/commerce.cgi?page=dapol00/kits.html
                                                                                                                                              >> <http://www.dapol.co.uk/cgi-bin/dapol-direct/commerce.cgi?page=dapol00/kits.html>).
                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                              >> It annoys many scale modellers here in Britain that 4mm items are sold
                                                                                                                                              >> as 00/H0 (and that a few true H0 items are sold as 00!).
                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                              >> Season's greetings,
                                                                                                                                              >> Andy Emmerson.
                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > --
                                                                                                                                              > Mike Sloane
                                                                                                                                              > Allamuchy NJ
                                                                                                                                              > <mikesloane@...>
                                                                                                                                              > Website: <www.geocities.com/mikesloane>
                                                                                                                                              > Images: <www.fotki.com/mikesloane>

                                                                                                                                              I've got a C020 "thatched cottage" downstairs somplace, and there's some of
                                                                                                                                              the airfix figures on the layout.

                                                                                                                                              Don

                                                                                                                                              don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                                                              http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                                                              Owner-Moderator
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                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1869 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/26/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: poll for new home page graphic?
                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                              From: "Imp Ster" <iimpster@...>
                                                                                                                                              To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                              Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 4:41 PM
                                                                                                                                              Subject: [vintageHO] poll for new home page graphic?


                                                                                                                                              > kinda miss the old Aerotrain pic for the VintageHO home page graphic.
                                                                                                                                              > maybe its the background, the classic cattle pen scene.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > (also, like most semi-starving arteests, i get tired of seeing my own
                                                                                                                                              > work haha)
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > New Year's Resolution: stage an interesting scene composed entirely
                                                                                                                                              > of great "vintageHO" pieces, incorporating adequate lighting and
                                                                                                                                              > framing this time, as a special gift (bah humbug, etc) to all my pals
                                                                                                                                              > @ VintageHO.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > so, heres the poll:
                                                                                                                                              > following is a partial list of available Vintage engines and
                                                                                                                                              > structures which can be arranged in any way.
                                                                                                                                              > what is wanted are ideas on thematic elements for the final staged
                                                                                                                                              > scene.
                                                                                                                                              > the scenes will be sparse on vegetation as the focus will be on
                                                                                                                                              > operating machines and illuminated structures of the noted era.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > AHM Docksider, no valve gear.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > Athearn Classic:
                                                                                                                                              > F units A & B, PA A & B, SD-45 in chrome trucks, Geeps, SW-1500s, all
                                                                                                                                              > UP livery.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > Bowser:
                                                                                                                                              > 4-8-4 Northern in remnants of GN blue, w/ smoke unit.
                                                                                                                                              > 4-6-2 Pacific, unpainted.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > Mantua:
                                                                                                                                              > 0-4-0 square tanker, GN blue, no light
                                                                                                                                              > 0-4-0 Shifter, GN blue, no light
                                                                                                                                              > 4-6-2 "Ten Wheeler", GN blue, citrine opera-cut gem as headlight lens.
                                                                                                                                              > 4-6-2 Pacific, GN blue, C/I light
                                                                                                                                              > 4-6-2 Pacific, original UP black, upgraded to GOW in headlight.
                                                                                                                                              > 4-6-4 Hudson, original NYC black, upgraded to GOW in headlight.
                                                                                                                                              > (the 2-6-2 Prairies we already know and love... ahem.)
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > odd brass:
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > Westside 4-4-2 Atlantic, GN blue, GOW.
                                                                                                                                              > Unknown (Tenshodo?) unpainted brass kit of 4-6-4 Hudson, GOW.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > available supporting cast of thousands, no really hundreds of vintage
                                                                                                                                              > and classic rolling stock.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > so, lets get this poll rolling.
                                                                                                                                              > hit reply, but please truncate or otherwise trim replies in the
                                                                                                                                              > composition field, for the convenience of readers who are following
                                                                                                                                              > re's or fwd's.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > harumph, etc.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > (cut here)
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > My Favorite HO Scene Idea is:
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > etc etc
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > ???????
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > ///

                                                                                                                                              I can always put the aerotrain back up.

                                                                                                                                              I put the starlight scene up because when you first uploaded it last spring
                                                                                                                                              someone said it would be a nice shot for christmas so I remembered! :-)

                                                                                                                                              Better idea for the cover picture, I'll start a new album, "contest", and
                                                                                                                                              anyone who wants can upload one photo. Only "rules" are it must feature
                                                                                                                                              equipment considered "vintage" within the scope of the group, and it must be
                                                                                                                                              your own work with your own equipment. Then, after a reasonable time (say
                                                                                                                                              Jan. 15?) we'll open up voting and let the members choose their favorite.
                                                                                                                                              (I did this in MR pics and it worked well)

                                                                                                                                              Don

                                                                                                                                              don.dellmann@...
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                                                                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
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                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1870 From: Imp Ster Date: 12/27/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: re - vintage pic poll
                                                                                                                                              aw, it was just more of a way to get some yakkin going.
                                                                                                                                              plus, i am always trolling for new ideas for photo compositions.

                                                                                                                                              hmm, an 0-6-0 still UN-ASSEMBLED???
                                                                                                                                              as in, a puzzle waiting to be zolved, a Venus Da Milo sculpture still
                                                                                                                                              hidden in that block of zinc ???
                                                                                                                                              say, i know a guy who just LIVES to assemble classic die casts.

                                                                                                                                              ahem. (koff koff)

                                                                                                                                              ...
                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1871 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/27/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: re - vintage pic poll
                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                              From: "Imp Ster" <iimpster@...>
                                                                                                                                              To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                              Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 4:19 PM
                                                                                                                                              Subject: [vintageHO] re - vintage pic poll


                                                                                                                                              > aw, it was just more of a way to get some yakkin going.
                                                                                                                                              > plus, i am always trolling for new ideas for photo compositions.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > hmm, an 0-6-0 still UN-ASSEMBLED???
                                                                                                                                              > as in, a puzzle waiting to be zolved, a Venus Da Milo sculpture still
                                                                                                                                              > hidden in that block of zinc ???
                                                                                                                                              > say, i know a guy who just LIVES to assemble classic die casts.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > ahem. (koff koff)

                                                                                                                                              Then maybe this is the wrong time to talk about the UNASSEMBLED Binkley box
                                                                                                                                              car kit I sent in payment for today?

                                                                                                                                              Don

                                                                                                                                              don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                                                              http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                                                              Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
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                                                                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1872 From: Glenn Date: 12/27/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: re - vintage pic poll
                                                                                                                                              If this were just an early run of the switcher they still produce, I wouldn't mind having it assembled.  But--since this shows where the state of the art in die casting technology was at the time, it will eventually go to the Howell Day Museum as it is.
                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                              I pin this kit down to 1948 by researching their ads--In the middle of 1948 MDC moved.  The Box has one address, the instruction sheet has the other.  One of the interesting things about it is that the cab is made up of at least five castings. Not too much later, MDC, Mantua, and Varney all managed to do the job with a single casting.  In fact, that year Varney brought ouit the F-3 A & B units that managed to get both entire sides, the ends, and a recess in the roof for the piece with all the panel and fan detail,cast as one piece.  gj 
                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                              From: Imp Ster
                                                                                                                                              Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 2:19 PM
                                                                                                                                              Subject: [vintageHO] re - vintage pic poll

                                                                                                                                              aw, it was just more of a way to get some yakkin going.
                                                                                                                                              plus, i am always trolling for new ideas for photo compositions.

                                                                                                                                              hmm, an 0-6-0 still UN-ASSEMBLED? ??
                                                                                                                                              as in, a puzzle waiting to be zolved, a Venus Da Milo sculpture still
                                                                                                                                              hidden in that block of zinc ???
                                                                                                                                              say, i know a guy who just LIVES to assemble classic die casts.

                                                                                                                                              ahem. (koff koff)

                                                                                                                                              ...

                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1873 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 12/28/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Rulebook For Model railroading, With Compliments to Dr. Murphy


                                                                                                                                                THE RULEBOOK OF MODEL RAILROADING
                                                                                                                                                      With thanks to Murphy and his laws



                                                                                                                                              Model Railroading is the only hobby that attempts to duplicate
                                                                                                                                              reality, from trains, trees, and buildings, to grease, weeds,
                                                                                                                                              and bird poop.
                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                              Given this complexity, it is interesting that model railroaders are generally spared from alcoholism and drug problems.  This is probably because we spend all our money on the hobby instead of drugs and drink, and don't have the time to do this anyway, since we're always in the train room. 
                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                              Insanity, however, IS a general problem.


                                                                                                                                              GENERAL RULES

                                                                                                                                              In order to complete Task 'A',  you must first do Task 'B'. 
                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                              In order to complete Task 'B', you must complete Task 'C'.
                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                              In order to complete Task 'C', you must first complete Task 'A'. 

                                                                                                                                              The phone will only ring when you have both hands holding a
                                                                                                                                              freshly-glued joint.  The same rule holds for wives and children
                                                                                                                                              needing your attention.  An answering machine will help the
                                                                                                                                              first condition. The second condition is incurable.

                                                                                                                                              Cats and model railroads do NOT mix.  Keep the door to the train
                                                                                                                                              room closed at all times.

                                                                                                                                              Always remember that when measuring things, 2 + 2 = 5 for large
                                                                                                                                              values of two, and 2 + 2 = 3 for small values of 2.


                                                                                                                                              SOME RULES FOR ASSEMBLING CAR KITS:

                                                                                                                                              1. When you get home from the Hobby Shop with your expensive,
                                                                                                                                              complex new kit, you immediately look at it and inventory the parts. 
                                                                                                                                              Upon inding all are there, you carefully put everything back in the
                                                                                                                                              box.
                                                                                                                                              Three days later, when you decide to start the kit, there will
                                                                                                                                              be at least one part missing.
                                                                                                                                              2. The instructions will be misplaced, and when you think you
                                                                                                                                              have them, you will discover half way thru the kit that they are for
                                                                                                                                              another kit.
                                                                                                                                              3. Each small part must be dropped on the floor at least once.
                                                                                                                                              4. At least one of the parts dropped in Step #3 will not be
                                                                                                                                              found.
                                                                                                                                              5. At least one part dropped in Step #3 will be broken.
                                                                                                                                              6. Upon completion of the kit, it must be either A) dropped, or
                                                                                                                                              B) have glue spilled on it.  This is known as 'Weathering'.
                                                                                                                                              7. Upon passing the Inspection Track, it will immediately derail
                                                                                                                                              on your layout.
                                                                                                                                              8. It is amazing how many lineside structures can be made out of
                                                                                                                                              kits that you have screwed up.


                                                                                                                                              SOME HELPFUL HINTS FOR KITBASHING:

                                                                                                                                              Regardless of all your careful planning, your prize-winning
                                                                                                                                              structure will absolutely not fit in the space you so carefully laid out
                                                                                                                                              for it.

                                                                                                                                              The locomotive mechanism which you spent 2 weeks tuning to Swiss
                                                                                                                                              perfection will fail miserably when you put your beautiful
                                                                                                                                              superstructure on it.


                                                                                                                                              DEALING WITH GUESTS:

                                                                                                                                              Rivet Counters may be easily discouraged by informing them that
                                                                                                                                              you are a member of an obscure cult that practices human sacrifice.

                                                                                                                                              Always have a model of a power plant on your layout.  This will
                                                                                                                                              make track power failures and short circuits easily explained as
                                                                                                                                              'Prototype Practice'.  

                                                                                                                                              Neat little scenes like hobos under a bridge, drunks outside a
                                                                                                                                              bar, a minor automobile accident on a street, help to divert a guest's
                                                                                                                                              attention from the obvious fact that half your railroad is
                                                                                                                                              unfinished.

                                                                                                                                              When someone utters the phrase 'Toy Trains', immediately go into
                                                                                                                                              your speech about scale, total realism, prototypical operation, and
                                                                                                                                              the myriad skills needed to build your empire - carpentry, painting,
                                                                                                                                              electrical, metal working, plastering, etc. etc.  Don't forget a
                                                                                                                                              litany on creativity.  At this point the guest will conclude
                                                                                                                                              that you are incurably insane and will drop the subject.

                                                                                                                                              Keep a supply of cigars handy; when a guest wonders why your
                                                                                                                                              steamers do not emit smoke, light up a cigar and the matter will be
                                                                                                                                              settled at once.



                                                                                                                                              RULES OF OPERATION:

                                                                                                                                              Automatic couplers won't.
                                                                                                                                              Automatic uncoupling ramps won't either.
                                                                                                                                              However, both of the above will readily function whenever you
                                                                                                                                              don't want them to.

                                                                                                                                              When, out of morbid curiosity, you decide to run your best
                                                                                                                                              locomotive wide open to see how fast it will haul those 10 cars and
                                                                                                                                              scratch-built caboose, a series of 12 horrible crunches will inform you that
                                                                                                                                              you forgot to put your lift-out section in place.

                                                                                                                                              Derailments and stalls will always happen in tunnels when no
                                                                                                                                              guests are there.  If you are showing off your empire to others, the
                                                                                                                                              derailments and stalls will always occur in the most visible
                                                                                                                                              place.

                                                                                                                                              __________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                              Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                              Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                                                                                                              http://mail.yahoo.com

                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1874 From: John Hagen Date: 12/28/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Rulebook For Model railroading, With Compliments to Dr. Murphy
                                                                                                                                              Harumph, musta read the same book, except for the lift-out part.

                                                                                                                                              --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Fred Hultberg <fhultberg@...>
                                                                                                                                              wrote:
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > THE RULEBOOK OF MODEL RAILROADING
                                                                                                                                              > With thanks to Murphy and his laws
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > Model Railroading is the only hobby that attempts to duplicate
                                                                                                                                              > reality, from trains, trees, and buildings, to grease, weeds,
                                                                                                                                              > and bird poop.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > Given this complexity, it is interesting that model railroaders
                                                                                                                                              are generally spared from alcoholism and drug problems. This is
                                                                                                                                              probably because we spend all our money on the hobby instead of
                                                                                                                                              drugs and drink, and don't have the time to do this anyway, since
                                                                                                                                              we're always in the train room.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > Insanity, however, IS a general problem.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > GENERAL RULES
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > In order to complete Task 'A', you must first do Task 'B'.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > In order to complete Task 'B', you must complete Task 'C'.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > In order to complete Task 'C', you must first complete
                                                                                                                                              Task 'A'.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > The phone will only ring when you have both hands holding a
                                                                                                                                              > freshly-glued joint. The same rule holds for wives and children
                                                                                                                                              > needing your attention. An answering machine will help the
                                                                                                                                              > first condition. The second condition is incurable.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > Cats and model railroads do NOT mix. Keep the door to the train
                                                                                                                                              > room closed at all times.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > Always remember that when measuring things, 2 + 2 = 5 for large
                                                                                                                                              > values of two, and 2 + 2 = 3 for small values of 2.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > SOME RULES FOR ASSEMBLING CAR KITS:
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > 1. When you get home from the Hobby Shop with your expensive,
                                                                                                                                              > complex new kit, you immediately look at it and inventory the
                                                                                                                                              parts.
                                                                                                                                              > Upon inding all are there, you carefully put everything back in
                                                                                                                                              the
                                                                                                                                              > box.
                                                                                                                                              > Three days later, when you decide to start the kit, there will
                                                                                                                                              > be at least one part missing.
                                                                                                                                              > 2. The instructions will be misplaced, and when you think you
                                                                                                                                              > have them, you will discover half way thru the kit that they are
                                                                                                                                              for
                                                                                                                                              > another kit.
                                                                                                                                              > 3. Each small part must be dropped on the floor at least once.
                                                                                                                                              > 4. At least one of the parts dropped in Step #3 will not be
                                                                                                                                              > found.
                                                                                                                                              > 5. At least one part dropped in Step #3 will be broken.
                                                                                                                                              > 6. Upon completion of the kit, it must be either A) dropped, or
                                                                                                                                              > B) have glue spilled on it. This is known as 'Weathering'.
                                                                                                                                              > 7. Upon passing the Inspection Track, it will immediately derail
                                                                                                                                              > on your layout.
                                                                                                                                              > 8. It is amazing how many lineside structures can be made out of
                                                                                                                                              > kits that you have screwed up.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > SOME HELPFUL HINTS FOR KITBASHING:
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > Regardless of all your careful planning, your prize-winning
                                                                                                                                              > structure will absolutely not fit in the space you so carefully
                                                                                                                                              laid out
                                                                                                                                              > for it.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > The locomotive mechanism which you spent 2 weeks tuning to Swiss
                                                                                                                                              > perfection will fail miserably when you put your beautiful
                                                                                                                                              > superstructure on it.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > DEALING WITH GUESTS:
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > Rivet Counters may be easily discouraged by informing them that
                                                                                                                                              > you are a member of an obscure cult that practices human sacrifice.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > Always have a model of a power plant on your layout. This will
                                                                                                                                              > make track power failures and short circuits easily explained as
                                                                                                                                              > 'Prototype Practice'.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > Neat little scenes like hobos under a bridge, drunks outside a
                                                                                                                                              > bar, a minor automobile accident on a street, help to divert a
                                                                                                                                              guest's
                                                                                                                                              > attention from the obvious fact that half your railroad is
                                                                                                                                              > unfinished.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > When someone utters the phrase 'Toy Trains', immediately go into
                                                                                                                                              > your speech about scale, total realism, prototypical operation,
                                                                                                                                              and
                                                                                                                                              > the myriad skills needed to build your empire - carpentry,
                                                                                                                                              painting,
                                                                                                                                              > electrical, metal working, plastering, etc. etc. Don't forget a
                                                                                                                                              > litany on creativity. At this point the guest will conclude
                                                                                                                                              > that you are incurably insane and will drop the subject.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > Keep a supply of cigars handy; when a guest wonders why your
                                                                                                                                              > steamers do not emit smoke, light up a cigar and the matter will
                                                                                                                                              be
                                                                                                                                              > settled at once.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > RULES OF OPERATION:
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > Automatic couplers won't.
                                                                                                                                              > Automatic uncoupling ramps won't either.
                                                                                                                                              > However, both of the above will readily function whenever you
                                                                                                                                              > don't want them to.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > When, out of morbid curiosity, you decide to run your best
                                                                                                                                              > locomotive wide open to see how fast it will haul those 10 cars
                                                                                                                                              and
                                                                                                                                              > scratch-built caboose, a series of 12 horrible crunches will
                                                                                                                                              inform you that
                                                                                                                                              > you forgot to put your lift-out section in place.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > Derailments and stalls will always happen in tunnels when no
                                                                                                                                              > guests are there. If you are showing off your empire to others,
                                                                                                                                              the
                                                                                                                                              > derailments and stalls will always occur in the most visible
                                                                                                                                              > place.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > __________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                              > Do You Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                              > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                                                                                                              > http://mail.yahoo.com
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1875 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/28/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: a Moment of Madness
                                                                                                                                              Well, I probably paid too much, but I had a little left over from my
                                                                                                                                              Christmas bonus, and it's been a LONG time since I had a piece of brass
                                                                                                                                              (other than my Electroliner), and I've always loved the Eries, and I
                                                                                                                                              remember when these came out..........

                                                                                                                                              http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330065704248

                                                                                                                                              I guess this is my Christmas present to myself.

                                                                                                                                              Don

                                                                                                                                              don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                                                              http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                                                              Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                                              Co-moderator
                                                                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1876 From: John Hagen Date: 12/28/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: a Moment of Madness
                                                                                                                                              Cool beans.

                                                                                                                                              --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
                                                                                                                                              wrote:
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > Well, I probably paid too much, but I had a little left over from
                                                                                                                                              my
                                                                                                                                              > Christmas bonus, and it's been a LONG time since I had a piece of
                                                                                                                                              brass
                                                                                                                                              > (other than my Electroliner), and I've always loved the Eries, and
                                                                                                                                              I
                                                                                                                                              > remember when these came out..........
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330065704248
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > I guess this is my Christmas present to myself.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > Don
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                                                              > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                                                              > Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                                              > Co-moderator
                                                                                                                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1877 From: Bill C. Date: 12/29/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: a Moment of Madness
                                                                                                                                              --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
                                                                                                                                              wrote:
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > Well, I probably paid too much, but I had a little left over from my
                                                                                                                                              > Christmas bonus, and it's been a LONG time since I had a piece of
                                                                                                                                              brass
                                                                                                                                              > (other than my Electroliner), and I've always loved the Eries, and I
                                                                                                                                              > remember when these came out..........
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330065704248
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > I guess this is my Christmas present to myself.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > Don

                                                                                                                                              Don,

                                                                                                                                              You did well on that deal. About four years ago, I got an A-B-A set of
                                                                                                                                              those exact engines, all in original boxes, and all in absolute mint
                                                                                                                                              condition for 100 bucks each. tWO WEEKS LATER, The foam was even
                                                                                                                                              original, and in excellent shape. These units were never even test
                                                                                                                                              run, as the clean gears and spotless wheels prove. There were not so
                                                                                                                                              much as any finger prints on any of the units. The only bad thing was,
                                                                                                                                              almost all of the nylon grars were cracked, and none of the units will
                                                                                                                                              run. Looking at the photo from Evil-bay, it appears that your trucks
                                                                                                                                              had been replaced with zemac trck assemblies, probably Hobbytown PA-1
                                                                                                                                              models. That may be due to the fact that all ot these Red Ball units
                                                                                                                                              suffered the same bad gears fate. Good luck with it. I plan on
                                                                                                                                              replacing my six bad trucks with Proto 1000 trucks as soon as I get my
                                                                                                                                              hands on three of their Erie Builts real, real cheep.

                                                                                                                                              Bill C.
                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1878 From: Bill C. Date: 12/29/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: a Moment of Madness (Typos removed)
                                                                                                                                              --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Bill C." <pennsysdaddy@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@>
                                                                                                                                              > wrote:
                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                              > > Well, I probably paid too much, but I had a little left over
                                                                                                                                              from my
                                                                                                                                              > > Christmas bonus, and it's been a LONG time since I had a piece
                                                                                                                                              of
                                                                                                                                              > brass
                                                                                                                                              > > (other than my Electroliner), and I've always loved the Eries,
                                                                                                                                              and I
                                                                                                                                              > > remember when these came out..........
                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                              > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330065704248
                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                              > > I guess this is my Christmas present to myself.
                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                              > > Don
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > Don,
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > You did well on that deal. About four years ago, I got an A-B-A
                                                                                                                                              set of
                                                                                                                                              > those exact engines, all in original boxes, and all in absolute
                                                                                                                                              mint
                                                                                                                                              > condition for 100 bucks each. The foam was even
                                                                                                                                              > original, and in excellent shape. These units were never even test
                                                                                                                                              > run, as the clean gears and spotless wheels prove. There were not
                                                                                                                                              so
                                                                                                                                              > much as any finger prints on any of the units. The only bad thing
                                                                                                                                              was,
                                                                                                                                              > almost all of the nylon grars were cracked, and none of the units
                                                                                                                                              will
                                                                                                                                              > run. Looking at the photo from Evil-bay, it appears that your
                                                                                                                                              trucks
                                                                                                                                              > had been replaced with zemac truck assemblies, probably with
                                                                                                                                              Hobbytown of Boston PA-1
                                                                                                                                              > models. That may be due to the fact that all of these old Red Ball
                                                                                                                                              units
                                                                                                                                              > suffered the same bad gears fate. Good luck with it. I plan on
                                                                                                                                              > replacing my six bad trucks with Proto 1000 trucks, as soon as I
                                                                                                                                              get my
                                                                                                                                              > hands on three of their Erie Builts real, real cheep.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > Bill C.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1879 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/29/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: a Moment of Madness
                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                              From: "Bill C." <pennsysdaddy@...>
                                                                                                                                              To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                              Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 3:52 AM
                                                                                                                                              Subject: [vintageHO] Re: a Moment of Madness


                                                                                                                                              > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
                                                                                                                                              > wrote:
                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                              >> Well, I probably paid too much, but I had a little left over from my
                                                                                                                                              >> Christmas bonus, and it's been a LONG time since I had a piece of
                                                                                                                                              > brass
                                                                                                                                              >> (other than my Electroliner), and I've always loved the Eries, and I
                                                                                                                                              >> remember when these came out..........
                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                              >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330065704248
                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                              >> I guess this is my Christmas present to myself.
                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                              >> Don
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > Don,
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > You did well on that deal. About four years ago, I got an A-B-A set of
                                                                                                                                              > those exact engines, all in original boxes, and all in absolute mint
                                                                                                                                              > condition for 100 bucks each. tWO WEEKS LATER, The foam was even
                                                                                                                                              > original, and in excellent shape. These units were never even test
                                                                                                                                              > run, as the clean gears and spotless wheels prove. There were not so
                                                                                                                                              > much as any finger prints on any of the units. The only bad thing was,
                                                                                                                                              > almost all of the nylon grars were cracked, and none of the units will
                                                                                                                                              > run. Looking at the photo from Evil-bay, it appears that your trucks
                                                                                                                                              > had been replaced with zemac trck assemblies, probably Hobbytown PA-1
                                                                                                                                              > models. That may be due to the fact that all ot these Red Ball units
                                                                                                                                              > suffered the same bad gears fate. Good luck with it. I plan on
                                                                                                                                              > replacing my six bad trucks with Proto 1000 trucks as soon as I get my
                                                                                                                                              > hands on three of their Erie Builts real, real cheep.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > Bill C.

                                                                                                                                              Having never had one of the actual Red Balls in my hot little hands I
                                                                                                                                              couldn't tell about the trucks.

                                                                                                                                              The cracked gears however sound like P-2K! I guess some things never
                                                                                                                                              change. :-)

                                                                                                                                              Don

                                                                                                                                              don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                                                              http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                                                              Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
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                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1880 From: Jerry Garteiser Date: 12/29/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: a Moment of Madness

                                                                                                                                              Nice purchase-looks to be in great shape.  And a very rare one indeed.  If you don’t buy it nobody is going to buy it for you!!!  Enjoy!   Jerry G.

                                                                                                                                               


                                                                                                                                              From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Don Dellmann
                                                                                                                                              Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 8:21 PM
                                                                                                                                              To: Haggis
                                                                                                                                              Cc: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                              Subject: [vintageHO] a Moment of Madness

                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                              Well, I probably paid too much, but I had a little left over from my
                                                                                                                                              Christmas bonus, and it's been a LONG time since I had a piece of brass
                                                                                                                                              (other than my Electroliner) , and I've always loved the Eries, and I
                                                                                                                                              remember when these came out......... .

                                                                                                                                              http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?ViewItem& item=33006570424 8

                                                                                                                                              I guess this is my Christmas present to myself.

                                                                                                                                              Don

                                                                                                                                              don.dellmann@ prodigy.net
                                                                                                                                              http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                                                                                                                              Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                                              http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                                                                                                                              http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                                              Co-moderator
                                                                                                                                              http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY

                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1881 From: Glenn Date: 12/29/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: a Moment of Madness
                                                                                                                                              I think that NWSL has replacement gears for those--
                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                              From: Bill C.
                                                                                                                                              Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 1:52 AM
                                                                                                                                              Subject: [vintageHO] Re: a Moment of Madness

                                                                                                                                              --- In vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@ ...>
                                                                                                                                              wrote:
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > Well, I probably paid too much, but I had a little left over from my
                                                                                                                                              > Christmas bonus, and it's been a LONG time since I had a piece of
                                                                                                                                              brass
                                                                                                                                              > (other than my Electroliner) , and I've always loved the Eries, and I
                                                                                                                                              > remember when these came out......... .
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?ViewItem& item=33006570424 8
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > I guess this is my Christmas present to myself.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > Don

                                                                                                                                              Don,

                                                                                                                                              You did well on that deal. About four years ago, I got an A-B-A set of
                                                                                                                                              those exact engines, all in original boxes, and all in absolute mint
                                                                                                                                              condition for 100 bucks each. tWO WEEKS LATER, The foam was even
                                                                                                                                              original, and in excellent shape. These units were never even test
                                                                                                                                              run, as the clean gears and spotless wheels prove. There were not so
                                                                                                                                              much as any finger prints on any of the units. The only bad thing was,
                                                                                                                                              almost all of the nylon grars were cracked, and none of the units will
                                                                                                                                              run. Looking at the photo from Evil-bay, it appears that your trucks
                                                                                                                                              had been replaced with zemac trck assemblies, probably Hobbytown PA-1
                                                                                                                                              models. That may be due to the fact that all ot these Red Ball units
                                                                                                                                              suffered the same bad gears fate. Good luck with it. I plan on
                                                                                                                                              replacing my six bad trucks with Proto 1000 trucks as soon as I get my
                                                                                                                                              hands on three of their Erie Builts real, real cheep.

                                                                                                                                              Bill C.

                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1882 From: Rick Jones Date: 12/29/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: a Moment of Madness
                                                                                                                                              Glenn wrote:
                                                                                                                                              > I think that NWSL has replacement gears for those--

                                                                                                                                              Most likely. I bought a Nickel Plate Products Burlington Zephyr from
                                                                                                                                              a dealer at the 2000 National Train Show in San Jose. It had cracked
                                                                                                                                              gears on the power truck, but NWSL had some metal ones that worked just
                                                                                                                                              great as replacements.

                                                                                                                                              --

                                                                                                                                              Rick Jones

                                                                                                                                              The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad
                                                                                                                                              http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/

                                                                                                                                              Don't be irreplaceable. If you can't be replaced, you can't be
                                                                                                                                              promoted.
                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1883 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/29/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: a Moment of Madness
                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                              From: "Rick Jones" <r.t.jones@...>
                                                                                                                                              To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                              Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 8:13 PM
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: a Moment of Madness


                                                                                                                                              > Glenn wrote:
                                                                                                                                              >> I think that NWSL has replacement gears for those--
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > Most likely. I bought a Nickel Plate Products Burlington Zephyr from
                                                                                                                                              > a dealer at the 2000 National Train Show in San Jose. It had cracked
                                                                                                                                              > gears on the power truck, but NWSL had some metal ones that worked just
                                                                                                                                              > great as replacements.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > --

                                                                                                                                              Of if they are indeed Hobbytown trucks, I have additional gears and
                                                                                                                                              wheelsets already, although if they are, odds on I won't need them.

                                                                                                                                              This thread brings up part of what I love about Vintage HO. On a "modern"
                                                                                                                                              locomotive, if there's a problem there's much wailing and gnashing of teeth
                                                                                                                                              because they're so hard to work on, you can't get parts, and people wind up
                                                                                                                                              with $200 paperweights a year after they bought their pride & joy. With
                                                                                                                                              most vintage, open 'er up, tinker a bit, diddle a few parts out of the
                                                                                                                                              scrapbox, and put her back in service.

                                                                                                                                              Don

                                                                                                                                              don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                                                              http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                                                              Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                                              Co-moderator
                                                                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1884 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 12/30/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: The Essence of Our Nice Old Stuff ( was "moment of madness")
                                                                                                                                              Don, you have expressed the essence of what I for one like about our old stuff. Thank you for putting it so succinctly!
                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                              And Happy New Year, all!
                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                              Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, fotocut)

                                                                                                                                              Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                              This thread brings up part of what I love about Vintage HO.  On a
                                                                                                                                              "modern"
                                                                                                                                              locomotive, if there's a problem there's much wailing and gnashing of
                                                                                                                                              teeth
                                                                                                                                              because they're so hard to work on, you can't get parts, and people
                                                                                                                                              wind up
                                                                                                                                              with $200 paperweights a year after they bought their pride & joy.  
                                                                                                                                              With
                                                                                                                                              most vintage, open 'er up, tinker a bit, diddle a few parts out of the
                                                                                                                                              scrapbox,  and put her back in service.

                                                                                                                                              Don

                                                                                                                                              __________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1885 From: John Hagen Date: 12/30/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: a Moment of Madness
                                                                                                                                              Kinda makes one think that the thing to do is put current shells on
                                                                                                                                              old drives, maybe with motor upgrades. I used to do all kinds of re-
                                                                                                                                              motoring with good results. The only problem is what you pay for
                                                                                                                                              those electronic, sound and automatic toilet paper roll equiped
                                                                                                                                              engines. Of course, once the electronic fry.....

                                                                                                                                              --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
                                                                                                                                              wrote:
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > This thread brings up part of what I love about Vintage HO. On
                                                                                                                                              a "modern"
                                                                                                                                              > locomotive, if there's a problem there's much wailing and gnashing
                                                                                                                                              of teeth
                                                                                                                                              > because they're so hard to work on, you can't get parts, and people
                                                                                                                                              wind up
                                                                                                                                              > with $200 paperweights a year after they bought their pride &
                                                                                                                                              joy. With
                                                                                                                                              > most vintage, open 'er up, tinker a bit, diddle a few parts out of
                                                                                                                                              the
                                                                                                                                              > scrapbox, and put her back in service.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > Don
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                                                              > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                                                              > Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                                              > Co-moderator
                                                                                                                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1886 From: John Hagen Date: 12/30/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: a Moment of Madness
                                                                                                                                              OOPS, forgot to sign my last message.

                                                                                                                                              But now I can bring up another thing that this thread, group
                                                                                                                                              actually, makes me think. That is I didn't discover this group until
                                                                                                                                              it was too late. I had forgotten the fun and history involved with
                                                                                                                                              all the old stuff I had. That (coupled with a bit of financial stress
                                                                                                                                              at the time) caused me to ebay all that good olde stuff (sniff). Oh,
                                                                                                                                              well, I can always buy more.

                                                                                                                                              John Hagen


                                                                                                                                              > This thread brings up part of what I love about Vintage HO. On
                                                                                                                                              a "modern"
                                                                                                                                              > locomotive, if there's a problem there's much wailing and gnashing
                                                                                                                                              of teeth
                                                                                                                                              > because they're so hard to work on, you can't get parts, and people
                                                                                                                                              wind up
                                                                                                                                              > with $200 paperweights a year after they bought their pride &
                                                                                                                                              joy. With
                                                                                                                                              > most vintage, open 'er up, tinker a bit, diddle a few parts out of
                                                                                                                                              the
                                                                                                                                              > scrapbox, and put her back in service.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > Don
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                                                              > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                                                              > Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                                              > Co-moderator
                                                                                                                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1887 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/30/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: a Moment of Madness
                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                              From: "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...>
                                                                                                                                              To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                              Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 11:55 AM
                                                                                                                                              Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Re: a Moment of Madness


                                                                                                                                              > OOPS, forgot to sign my last message.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > But now I can bring up another thing that this thread, group
                                                                                                                                              > actually, makes me think. That is I didn't discover this group until
                                                                                                                                              > it was too late. I had forgotten the fun and history involved with
                                                                                                                                              > all the old stuff I had. That (coupled with a bit of financial stress
                                                                                                                                              > at the time) caused me to ebay all that good olde stuff (sniff). Oh,
                                                                                                                                              > well, I can always buy more.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > John Hagen

                                                                                                                                              I did the same thing when I got married. Fortunately, due to the wonders of
                                                                                                                                              eBay I've been able to replace most of what I missed most, except for the
                                                                                                                                              brass steamers. (A PFM Milwaukee Road Baltic, an LMB LS&MS 4-6-0, a
                                                                                                                                              Westside UP 119 4-4-0, a PFM Omaha 0-6-0.) Those will probably be forever
                                                                                                                                              beyond my reach.

                                                                                                                                              Then there was the time John Smallshaw offered to sell me his entire
                                                                                                                                              collection of Suydam CN&SM interurbans for around $40 a piece and I didn't
                                                                                                                                              have the money!

                                                                                                                                              Don

                                                                                                                                              don.dellmann@...
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                                                                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
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                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1888 From: Glenn Date: 12/30/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: a Moment of Madness
                                                                                                                                              apparently it's a widespread problem--mostly diesels and electrics made by Kumata  they shrink as they age--takes about 30 days--so if left to age, and then reamed to fit the axles, they shouldhold up.  gj
                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                              From: Rick Jones
                                                                                                                                              Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 6:13 PM
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: a Moment of Madness

                                                                                                                                              Glenn wrote:
                                                                                                                                              > I think that NWSL has replacement gears for those--

                                                                                                                                              Most likely. I bought a Nickel Plate Products Burlington Zephyr from
                                                                                                                                              a dealer at the 2000 National Train Show in San Jose. It had cracked
                                                                                                                                              gears on the power truck, but NWSL had some metal ones that worked just
                                                                                                                                              great as replacements.

                                                                                                                                              --

                                                                                                                                              Rick Jones

                                                                                                                                              The Lake Erie & Oregon Railroad
                                                                                                                                              http://www.geocitie s.com/seventysix inchesoffun/

                                                                                                                                              Don't be irreplaceable. If you can't be replaced, you can't be
                                                                                                                                              promoted.

                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1889 From: Salt&Pepper Whoknows Date: 12/30/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: a Moment of Madness
                                                                                                                                              And it always seems that those GREAT OPPORTUNITIES always come along
                                                                                                                                              when your pocketbook is at it's thinnest.................:-)

                                                                                                                                              A Very Happy New Year to you all.....................

                                                                                                                                              Loren

                                                                                                                                              _________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                              Get live scores and news about your team: Add the Live.com Football Page
                                                                                                                                              www.live.com/?addtemplate=football&icid=T001MSN30A0701
                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1890 From: bitlerisvj Date: 12/30/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Ambroid ACL Ventilated Boxcoar
                                                                                                                                              Hi group,
                                                                                                                                              I just found this group and am hoping for some expert help. I am
                                                                                                                                              almost finished building the subject ACL Ventilated Boxcar and am a
                                                                                                                                              little confused. The instructions call for Boxcar Red as the paint
                                                                                                                                              color, but the Boxcar Red I have in Polyscale is really closer to
                                                                                                                                              Tuscan or more of a Brownish color. The pre-painted sides are more
                                                                                                                                              Red than the Polyscale Boxcar Red. Will I need to mix my own colors,
                                                                                                                                              or does anyone know if there is a Boxcar Red still available that may
                                                                                                                                              work? I haven't tried a new Floquil Boxcar Red, because I hate the
                                                                                                                                              NEW Floquil formula paint. It isn't anything close to the old Floquil
                                                                                                                                              paint that I used to use a long time ago. Anybody have any clues for
                                                                                                                                              marrying old kits with modern paints? The bad part is I have several
                                                                                                                                              Ambroid kits with some pre-painted parts. I have several stock car
                                                                                                                                              kits and the Pickle Car kit. I also have some Silver Streak cars with
                                                                                                                                              some pre-painted sides. I am wondering if I would be better off
                                                                                                                                              putting them on eBay, but I love building them.
                                                                                                                                              Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris
                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1891 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/30/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Ambroid ACL Ventilated Boxcoar
                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                              From: "bitlerisvj" <bitlerisvj@...>
                                                                                                                                              To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                              Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 9:17 PM
                                                                                                                                              Subject: [vintageHO] Ambroid ACL Ventilated Boxcoar


                                                                                                                                              > Hi group,
                                                                                                                                              > I just found this group and am hoping for some expert help. I am
                                                                                                                                              > almost finished building the subject ACL Ventilated Boxcar and am a
                                                                                                                                              > little confused. The instructions call for Boxcar Red as the paint
                                                                                                                                              > color, but the Boxcar Red I have in Polyscale is really closer to
                                                                                                                                              > Tuscan or more of a Brownish color. The pre-painted sides are more
                                                                                                                                              > Red than the Polyscale Boxcar Red. Will I need to mix my own colors,
                                                                                                                                              > or does anyone know if there is a Boxcar Red still available that may
                                                                                                                                              > work? I haven't tried a new Floquil Boxcar Red, because I hate the
                                                                                                                                              > NEW Floquil formula paint. It isn't anything close to the old Floquil
                                                                                                                                              > paint that I used to use a long time ago. Anybody have any clues for
                                                                                                                                              > marrying old kits with modern paints? The bad part is I have several
                                                                                                                                              > Ambroid kits with some pre-painted parts. I have several stock car
                                                                                                                                              > kits and the Pickle Car kit. I also have some Silver Streak cars with
                                                                                                                                              > some pre-painted sides. I am wondering if I would be better off
                                                                                                                                              > putting them on eBay, but I love building them.
                                                                                                                                              > Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris

                                                                                                                                              Don't give up, build them!

                                                                                                                                              It may take some mixing and experimenting to get the color right, but it
                                                                                                                                              will be worth it.

                                                                                                                                              I would NOT use polyscale on a wood kit (in fact I wouldn't use it on
                                                                                                                                              anything, but that's personal opinion).

                                                                                                                                              I do still use solvent based Floquil, while it's not as good las it used to
                                                                                                                                              be, it's still better than most acrylics. Try various mixes of Boxcar red,
                                                                                                                                              Tuscan and roof brown. The only acrylic I use and love is "Ceramcoat"
                                                                                                                                              (available at any craft store, most Walmarts, and many "big box" home
                                                                                                                                              improvement stores). It is not good for metal, but works well on wood. Try
                                                                                                                                              their "red iron oxide" and/or "barn red".

                                                                                                                                              The other one you might try is Scalecoat if you can find it (although I was
                                                                                                                                              never a big scalecoat fan), if you want acrylics, theirs is/was "Scalcoat
                                                                                                                                              II".

                                                                                                                                              Don

                                                                                                                                              don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                                                              http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                                                              Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                                              Co-moderator
                                                                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1892 From: Andrew Emmerson Date: 12/31/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: How to contact John Spanagel?
                                                                                                                                              I would like to get in touch with John Spanagel about his Varney book and
                                                                                                                                              just wondered if he is a member of this forum.

                                                                                                                                              His snail mail address is on the NMRA website but an e-mail would be simpler
                                                                                                                                              and faster. Any help most welcome!

                                                                                                                                              Thanks,
                                                                                                                                              Andrew Emmerson (in England)
                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1893 From: John Hagen Date: 12/31/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: a Moment of Madness
                                                                                                                                              --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...>
                                                                                                                                              wrote:
                                                                                                                                              Please forgive my trangression here as this is not about trains, new,
                                                                                                                                              old, model or prototype, but a good story (at least I think it is). I
                                                                                                                                              think Don has heard it before.

                                                                                                                                              In fall of 1973, I was a service manager at a small Dodge dealership.
                                                                                                                                              A guy trades in a '72 Charger in on a '74 model. The '72 is bought by
                                                                                                                                              another guy who trades in a 1969 Plymouth Road Runner. It's blue, has
                                                                                                                                              something like 43,000 miles on the clock and has never been out in
                                                                                                                                              bad weather. This was a HEMI, 4 speed, had either a 3.90 or 4.10 Dana
                                                                                                                                              rear end. He had put in a Hurst Super Shifter, headers and traction
                                                                                                                                              bars. It was in just beautiful condition. I could have got it for
                                                                                                                                              $600.00. Yeah, six hundred, I didn't drop a decimal point or
                                                                                                                                              anything. Didn't have the money.

                                                                                                                                              Think of what that car would be worth today! Coulda sold it and
                                                                                                                                              bought a whole bunch of trains.

                                                                                                                                              John Hagen
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > Then there was the time John Smallshaw offered to sell me his
                                                                                                                                              entire
                                                                                                                                              > collection of Suydam CN&SM interurbans for around $40 a piece and I
                                                                                                                                              didn't
                                                                                                                                              > have the money!
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > Don
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                                                              > http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                                                              > Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                                              > Co-moderator
                                                                                                                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1894 From: Don Dellmann Date: 12/31/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Happy New Year
                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1895 From: oahurailway Date: 12/31/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: HAPPY NEW YEAR!
                                                                                                                                              Happy New Year! from the Hawaiian Islands to all the "Vintage" people!

                                                                                                                                              Ken
                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1896 From: Glenn Date: 12/31/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Ambroid ACL Ventilated Boxcoar
                                                                                                                                              I would be quite wary of mixing wood kits with anything with water in it.  Bad experience with some LaBelle passenger cars some years ago (Yes--I went back and found the warning in the instructions)--in that case the liberal application of bricks overcame the effects of white glue--but I think a built-up car could be totalled.Similar problem on a Tomalco reefer when setting decals--gj
                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                              From: bitlerisvj
                                                                                                                                              Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 7:17 PM
                                                                                                                                              Subject: [vintageHO] Ambroid ACL Ventilated Boxcoar

                                                                                                                                              Hi group,
                                                                                                                                              I just found this group and am hoping for some expert help. I am
                                                                                                                                              almost finished building the subject ACL Ventilated Boxcar and am a
                                                                                                                                              little confused. The instructions call for Boxcar Red as the paint
                                                                                                                                              color, but the Boxcar Red I have in Polyscale is really closer to
                                                                                                                                              Tuscan or more of a Brownish color. The pre-painted sides are more
                                                                                                                                              Red than the Polyscale Boxcar Red. Will I need to mix my own colors,
                                                                                                                                              or does anyone know if there is a Boxcar Red still available that may
                                                                                                                                              work? I haven't tried a new Floquil Boxcar Red, because I hate the
                                                                                                                                              NEW Floquil formula paint. It isn't anything close to the old Floquil
                                                                                                                                              paint that I used to use a long time ago. Anybody have any clues for
                                                                                                                                              marrying old kits with modern paints? The bad part is I have several
                                                                                                                                              Ambroid kits with some pre-painted parts. I have several stock car
                                                                                                                                              kits and the Pickle Car kit. I also have some Silver Streak cars with
                                                                                                                                              some pre-painted sides. I am wondering if I would be better off
                                                                                                                                              putting them on eBay, but I love building them.
                                                                                                                                              Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris

                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1897 From: Glenn Date: 12/31/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Ambroid ACL Ventilated Boxcoar
                                                                                                                                              I'll bet the instrux call for "4-10-M'" paint. 
                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                              If anyone comes up with a match mix or the 4-10-M paints, as well as the MDC paints--it sould be a service to the hobby (at least this part of it) to record the mix.  The tinplate collectors have lines of paint to match the old Lionel and Ives colors--but I think thier market is bigger than ours.
                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                              Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 10:09 PM
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ambroid ACL Ventilated Boxcoar


                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                              From: "bitlerisvj" <bitlerisvj@hotmail. com>
                                                                                                                                              To: <vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com>
                                                                                                                                              Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 9:17 PM
                                                                                                                                              Subject: [vintageHO] Ambroid ACL Ventilated Boxcoar

                                                                                                                                              > Hi group,
                                                                                                                                              > I just found this group and am hoping for some expert help. I am
                                                                                                                                              > almost finished building the subject ACL Ventilated Boxcar and am a
                                                                                                                                              > little confused. The instructions call for Boxcar Red as the paint
                                                                                                                                              > color, but the Boxcar Red I have in Polyscale is really closer to
                                                                                                                                              > Tuscan or more of a Brownish color. The pre-painted sides are more
                                                                                                                                              > Red than the Polyscale Boxcar Red. Will I need to mix my own colors,
                                                                                                                                              > or does anyone know if there is a Boxcar Red still available that may
                                                                                                                                              > work? I haven't tried a new Floquil Boxcar Red, because I hate the
                                                                                                                                              > NEW Floquil formula paint. It isn't anything close to the old Floquil
                                                                                                                                              > paint that I used to use a long time ago. Anybody have any clues for
                                                                                                                                              > marrying old kits with modern paints? The bad part is I have several
                                                                                                                                              > Ambroid kits with some pre-painted parts. I have several stock car
                                                                                                                                              > kits and the Pickle Car kit. I also have some Silver Streak cars with
                                                                                                                                              > some pre-painted sides. I am wondering if I would be better off
                                                                                                                                              > putting them on eBay, but I love building them.
                                                                                                                                              > Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris

                                                                                                                                              Don't give up, build them!

                                                                                                                                              It may take some mixing and experimenting to get the color right, but it
                                                                                                                                              will be worth it.

                                                                                                                                              I would NOT use polyscale on a wood kit (in fact I wouldn't use it on
                                                                                                                                              anything, but that's personal opinion).

                                                                                                                                              I do still use solvent based Floquil, while it's not as good las it used to
                                                                                                                                              be, it's still better than most acrylics. Try various mixes of Boxcar red,
                                                                                                                                              Tuscan and roof brown. The only acrylic I use and love is "Ceramcoat"
                                                                                                                                              (available at any craft store, most Walmarts, and many "big box" home
                                                                                                                                              improvement stores). It is not good for metal, but works well on wood. Try
                                                                                                                                              their "red iron oxide" and/or "barn red".

                                                                                                                                              The other one you might try is Scalecoat if you can find it (although I was
                                                                                                                                              never a big scalecoat fan), if you want acrylics, theirs is/was "Scalcoat
                                                                                                                                              II".

                                                                                                                                              Don

                                                                                                                                              don.dellmann@ prodigy.net
                                                                                                                                              http://www.geocitie s.com/don_ dellmann
                                                                                                                                              Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                                              http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MRPics
                                                                                                                                              http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                                              Co-moderator
                                                                                                                                              http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SCENERY

                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1898 From: Fred Hultberg Date: 12/31/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Happy New Year
                                                                                                                                              Happy New Year to you, Don and to all the listees as well!
                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                              Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut)

                                                                                                                                              Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                              From a friend

                                                                                                                                              http://www.spiritisup.com/trainoftime2006yc.html

                                                                                                                                              Don

                                                                                                                                              don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                                                              http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                                                              Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                                              Co-moderator
                                                                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY






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                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1899 From: nycrrmitch Date: 12/31/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Number Boards
                                                                                                                                              Hi:
                                                                                                                                              I have a Varney F3 that is missing Number Boards and would very happy
                                                                                                                                              if someone could tell me where to get a pair that I could use for
                                                                                                                                              replacement. I think the originals were clear plastic. But, that is
                                                                                                                                              only a guess. When I got the engine, it was just the shell. It now has
                                                                                                                                              a Hobbytown drive and runs great.
                                                                                                                                              Thanks,
                                                                                                                                              Joe Mitchell
                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1900 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 12/31/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Ambroid ACL Ventilated Boxcoar
                                                                                                                                              Nope, but I do agree that some of the older pre-painted Roundhouse Metal
                                                                                                                                              kits called for 410 M paint. These Ambroid instructions call for simply
                                                                                                                                              "Boxcar Red" and do not identify any paint manufacturer. I think I came up
                                                                                                                                              with a decent match using Special Oxide Red and Boxcar Red in Polyscaled
                                                                                                                                              paints. So far I have tried a 50/50 mix of each, but I will update this
                                                                                                                                              list with my final choice. It may end up being a 66/33 mix of these colors.
                                                                                                                                              I am hoping to start painting by the end of next week.

                                                                                                                                              Vic Bitleris
                                                                                                                                              Raleigh, NC



                                                                                                                                              ----Original Message Follows----
                                                                                                                                              From: "Glenn" <glenn476@...>
                                                                                                                                              Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                              To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ambroid ACL Ventilated Boxcoar
                                                                                                                                              Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2006 17:02:49 -0800

                                                                                                                                              I'll bet the instrux call for "4-10-M'" paint.

                                                                                                                                              If anyone comes up with a match mix or the 4-10-M paints, as well as the MDC
                                                                                                                                              paints--it sould be a service to the hobby (at least this part of it) to
                                                                                                                                              record the mix. The tinplate collectors have lines of paint to match the
                                                                                                                                              old Lionel and Ives colors--but I think thier market is bigger than ours.
                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                              From: Don Dellmann
                                                                                                                                              To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                              Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 10:09 PM
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ambroid ACL Ventilated Boxcoar



                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                              From: "bitlerisvj" <bitlerisvj@...>
                                                                                                                                              To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                              Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 9:17 PM
                                                                                                                                              Subject: [vintageHO] Ambroid ACL Ventilated Boxcoar

                                                                                                                                              > Hi group,
                                                                                                                                              > I just found this group and am hoping for some expert help. I am
                                                                                                                                              > almost finished building the subject ACL Ventilated Boxcar and am a
                                                                                                                                              > little confused. The instructions call for Boxcar Red as the paint
                                                                                                                                              > color, but the Boxcar Red I have in Polyscale is really closer to
                                                                                                                                              > Tuscan or more of a Brownish color. The pre-painted sides are more
                                                                                                                                              > Red than the Polyscale Boxcar Red. Will I need to mix my own colors,
                                                                                                                                              > or does anyone know if there is a Boxcar Red still available that may
                                                                                                                                              > work? I haven't tried a new Floquil Boxcar Red, because I hate the
                                                                                                                                              > NEW Floquil formula paint. It isn't anything close to the old Floquil
                                                                                                                                              > paint that I used to use a long time ago. Anybody have any clues for
                                                                                                                                              > marrying old kits with modern paints? The bad part is I have several
                                                                                                                                              > Ambroid kits with some pre-painted parts. I have several stock car
                                                                                                                                              > kits and the Pickle Car kit. I also have some Silver Streak cars with
                                                                                                                                              > some pre-painted sides. I am wondering if I would be better off
                                                                                                                                              > putting them on eBay, but I love building them.
                                                                                                                                              > Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris

                                                                                                                                              Don't give up, build them!

                                                                                                                                              It may take some mixing and experimenting to get the color right, but it
                                                                                                                                              will be worth it.

                                                                                                                                              I would NOT use polyscale on a wood kit (in fact I wouldn't use it on
                                                                                                                                              anything, but that's personal opinion).

                                                                                                                                              I do still use solvent based Floquil, while it's not as good las it used
                                                                                                                                              to
                                                                                                                                              be, it's still better than most acrylics. Try various mixes of Boxcar
                                                                                                                                              red,
                                                                                                                                              Tuscan and roof brown. The only acrylic I use and love is "Ceramcoat"
                                                                                                                                              (available at any craft store, most Walmarts, and many "big box" home
                                                                                                                                              improvement stores). It is not good for metal, but works well on wood.
                                                                                                                                              Try
                                                                                                                                              their "red iron oxide" and/or "barn red".

                                                                                                                                              The other one you might try is Scalecoat if you can find it (although I
                                                                                                                                              was
                                                                                                                                              never a big scalecoat fan), if you want acrylics, theirs is/was "Scalcoat
                                                                                                                                              II".

                                                                                                                                              Don

                                                                                                                                              don.dellmann@...
                                                                                                                                              http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
                                                                                                                                              Owner-Moderator
                                                                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRPics
                                                                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO
                                                                                                                                              Co-moderator
                                                                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCENERY

                                                                                                                                              _________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                              Dave vs. Carl: The Insignificant Championship Series. �Who will win?
                                                                                                                                              http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://davevscarl.spaces.live.com/?icid=T001MSN38C07001
                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1901 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 12/31/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Number Boards
                                                                                                                                              Mine were black plastic, but I did not realize that until I destroyed them
                                                                                                                                              when I removed the paint using lacquer thinner. Currently, I decided to use
                                                                                                                                              some Details Associates number boards and filled in the existing holes with
                                                                                                                                              styrene. These are OK, but I feel like the originals would be better. If
                                                                                                                                              you find a source for these number boards, I would be very interested. I
                                                                                                                                              also have mine running with a Hobbytown chassis. I need to get the
                                                                                                                                              companion chassis for the B-Unit as well. Then I need to put a healthy
                                                                                                                                              decoder in it. This guy shpuld be able to pull a LOT of cars.

                                                                                                                                              Vic Bitleris
                                                                                                                                              Raleigh, NC



                                                                                                                                              ----Original Message Follows----
                                                                                                                                              From: "nycrrmitch" <nycrrmitch@...>
                                                                                                                                              Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                              To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                              Subject: [vintageHO] Number Boards
                                                                                                                                              Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2007 02:05:00 -0000

                                                                                                                                              Hi:
                                                                                                                                              I have a Varney F3 that is missing Number Boards and would very happy
                                                                                                                                              if someone could tell me where to get a pair that I could use for
                                                                                                                                              replacement. I think the originals were clear plastic. But, that is
                                                                                                                                              only a guess. When I got the engine, it was just the shell. It now has
                                                                                                                                              a Hobbytown drive and runs great.
                                                                                                                                              Thanks,
                                                                                                                                              Joe Mitchell

                                                                                                                                              _________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                              From photos to predictions, The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes has
                                                                                                                                              it all. http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/
                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1902 From: Victor Bitleris Date: 12/31/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Ambroid ACL Ventilated Boxcoar
                                                                                                                                              Hi folks,
                                                                                                                                              I dunno what the case is against using Polyscale paints on wood kits is, but
                                                                                                                                              I have used Polyscale or other acrylic paints on wood kits for quite some
                                                                                                                                              time. I do not ever have any problems with the wood warping or coming
                                                                                                                                              apart. I do admit, I used to worry less when I used solvent type paints,
                                                                                                                                              but over the last few years, I found it is not necessary to use these. I
                                                                                                                                              use Yellow Glue for putting the kits together. While this is not
                                                                                                                                              "waterproof", it is indeed water resistant and seems to work better than the
                                                                                                                                              White Glue. I have put together about 6 structure kits and at least 3 car
                                                                                                                                              kits together and painted them using Polyscale paints. I brush painted at
                                                                                                                                              least one of the cars, a Quality Craft Pennsy Caboose, with no ill effects.
                                                                                                                                              I would not "soak" the paint in, but on the other hand, I am not "dry"
                                                                                                                                              brushing either. However, I don't mind saying that when I air brushed the
                                                                                                                                              OSL (Taurus) Stock Car, I was quite liberal with the paint and almost felt
                                                                                                                                              that it was a bit too wet. The car turned out great and suffered no ill
                                                                                                                                              effects at all. I use Windex or some similar Window cleaner for Acrylic
                                                                                                                                              thinner or solvent and cannot complain at all. I am also building some
                                                                                                                                              Ambroid B&M open platform passenger cars and am planning on brushing them
                                                                                                                                              with Badger Model Flex, also an acrylic, because they have the correct color
                                                                                                                                              for the B&M Maroon cars. One of my practices (but, not always) is to spray
                                                                                                                                              auto primer, a lacquer, prior to acrylic painting. This allows quite a bit
                                                                                                                                              of flexibility for weathering, etc. But, is not required to keep the wood
                                                                                                                                              stable.

                                                                                                                                              Vic Bitleris
                                                                                                                                              Raleigh, NC



                                                                                                                                              ----Original Message Follows----
                                                                                                                                              From: "Glenn" <glenn476@...>
                                                                                                                                              Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                              To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ambroid ACL Ventilated Boxcoar
                                                                                                                                              Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2006 16:51:27 -0800

                                                                                                                                              I would be quite wary of mixing wood kits with anything with water in it.
                                                                                                                                              Bad experience with some LaBelle passenger cars some years ago (Yes--I went
                                                                                                                                              back and found the warning in the instructions)--in that case the liberal
                                                                                                                                              application of bricks overcame the effects of white glue--but I think a
                                                                                                                                              built-up car could be totalled.Similar problem on a Tomalco reefer when
                                                                                                                                              setting decals--gj
                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                              From: bitlerisvj
                                                                                                                                              To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                              Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 7:17 PM
                                                                                                                                              Subject: [vintageHO] Ambroid ACL Ventilated Boxcoar


                                                                                                                                              Hi group,
                                                                                                                                              I just found this group and am hoping for some expert help. I am
                                                                                                                                              almost finished building the subject ACL Ventilated Boxcar and am a
                                                                                                                                              little confused. The instructions call for Boxcar Red as the paint
                                                                                                                                              color, but the Boxcar Red I have in Polyscale is really closer to
                                                                                                                                              Tuscan or more of a Brownish color. The pre-painted sides are more
                                                                                                                                              Red than the Polyscale Boxcar Red. Will I need to mix my own colors,
                                                                                                                                              or does anyone know if there is a Boxcar Red still available that may
                                                                                                                                              work? I haven't tried a new Floquil Boxcar Red, because I hate the
                                                                                                                                              NEW Floquil formula paint. It isn't anything close to the old Floquil
                                                                                                                                              paint that I used to use a long time ago. Anybody have any clues for
                                                                                                                                              marrying old kits with modern paints? The bad part is I have several
                                                                                                                                              Ambroid kits with some pre-painted parts. I have several stock car
                                                                                                                                              kits and the Pickle Car kit. I also have some Silver Streak cars with
                                                                                                                                              some pre-painted sides. I am wondering if I would be better off
                                                                                                                                              putting them on eBay, but I love building them.
                                                                                                                                              Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris

                                                                                                                                              _________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                              Find sales, coupons, and free shipping, all in one place! �MSN Shopping
                                                                                                                                              Sales & Deals
                                                                                                                                              http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctid=198,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata=200639
                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1903 From: Larry Date: 12/31/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Happy New Year
                                                                                                                                              Just thought I would wish every at Vintage HO a Happy and Prosperous
                                                                                                                                              New Year.

                                                                                                                                              Don is this picture okay? You can send me another photo or banner if
                                                                                                                                              you would like to replace the Varney Aero Train photo.

                                                                                                                                              http://www.hoseeker.net/forumchatlinks.html

                                                                                                                                              Larry
                                                                                                                                              Group: vintageHO Message: 1904 From: Charles E. Kinzer Date: 12/31/2006
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: How to contact John Spanagel? and "Varney wreck proof train"
                                                                                                                                              Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                You might contact Kalmbach who now owns Greenberg Publishing (who published the book - I have one).
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                By the way, I got a Varney item off ebay long ago that might amuse both that author and this group.  It is the "Li'L Raskal Wreck Proof Train".  It doesn't seem to be mentioned in the book and you might mention that to the author is you reach him.
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                I bought one that had pretty good contents in a pretty bad box.  Later, another ebayer got a pretty good box with some missing contents.  I thought the world would be better with at least one nice sample and sold mine to the guy to put together one fairly good set.  And it  definitely seems pretty "wreck proof".
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                I have attached photos of the thing.
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                Chuck Kinzer
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 4:35 AM
                                                                                                                                                Subject: [vintageHO] How to contact John Spanagel?

                                                                                                                                                I would like to get in touch with John Spanagel about his Varney book and
                                                                                                                                                just wondered if he is a member of this forum.

                                                                                                                                                His snail mail address is on the NMRA website but an e-mail would be simpler
                                                                                                                                                and faster. Any help most welcome!

                                                                                                                                                Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                Andrew Emmerson (in England)